Order of Man - LARRY HAGNER ｜ Spirit of Fatherhood

00:00:00.180 Being a father is hard work, but it's also one of the most rewarding journeys a man can take in his life.

00:00:05.960 With all the demands of life, it can feel like we as fathers are simply flailing around trying to figure out the best way to raise our children.

00:00:13.100 With four of my own, just when I think I have it all figured out, I'm throwing another curveball.

00:00:18.020 My guest today, Larry Hagner, has spent the last 10 years coaching men who want to become the best fathers they can and possibly the fathers they never had themselves.

00:00:27.040 Today, we talk about the spirit of fatherhood, what to plan for before your first child, a powerful tool Larry has built called the Family Score to assess your performance as a father, building unbreakable bonds with your kids, and how best to have tough conversations.

00:00:42.800 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:48.460 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:52.800 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:58.240 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.

00:01:02.440 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:08.140 Men, welcome to the Order of Man podcast. I am Ryan Michler. I'm your host.

00:01:12.360 I'm also the founder of this movement. And before I get any further, I just want to say thank you.

00:01:17.160 If you've been around for any amount of time, you know that over the past several years, I've been in a rebuilding phase of my life.

00:01:25.740 And it's been a challenge, frankly, for the past two and a half or so years.

00:01:30.180 But I feel like I'm getting my feet under me. I feel like I'm catching my strides.

00:01:35.180 And it feels good to be back into a place where I am doing the things I need to be doing and then also hopefully being able to step up and providing you the tools and resources you need to do well in your own life.

00:01:48.800 Whether it's fatherhood or being a husband or starting a business, growing a business, working with employees, coaching teams in your community, serving in your church organization, serving in some political capacity within your city or county, your state.

00:02:05.780 I want to give you everything we need. And part of the way we do that is through our interviews with incredible men.

00:02:10.340 And I've got Larry Hagner, a longtime friend and a great, great man himself.

00:02:15.320 We've also had guys like Jocko Willink and David Goggins and Matthew McConaughey and Terry Crews and Tim Tebow and just some incredible men in their own right, all imparting their wisdom on us.

00:02:29.740 So again, thank you. Grateful. And I'm also very grateful for my friends and show sponsors over at MontanaKnifeCompany.com.

00:02:39.560 These guys make American-made knives, simple as that. And they are absolutely incredible.

00:02:45.740 They just did a collaboration with Steve Rinella from Meat Eater, many of you are familiar with.

00:02:50.780 And they've got all sorts of hunting knives, culinary knives, fishing fillet knives.

00:02:56.100 I think they're working on doing some tactical and everyday carry knives.

00:02:59.980 But guys, look no further than Montana Knife Company if you need.

00:03:04.240 One of the most important tools I think that a man can have, and I always, always have a knife on me.

00:03:09.560 And you can check it out again at MontanaKnifeCompany.com.

00:03:13.000 And then when you use, or excuse me, when you do go over there and check out what they have to offer and pick up a knife or their gear, use the code ORDEROFMAN.

00:03:21.380 ORDEROFMAN, all one word, at MontanaKnifeCompany.com.

00:03:25.640 All right, man, let me introduce you to Larry.

00:03:27.500 He is the founder of The Dad Edge, which is a movement built to give fathers the best possible tools to step more fully into their role in raising their children.

00:03:35.940 Like me, and probably many of you, Larry grew up throughout most of his childhood without a father figure, but he's used that as fuel to be the best dad that he can be to his children.

00:03:47.380 He's the author of his latest book, Spirit of Fatherhood, and has spent, like I said, almost 10 years now developing many programs around patience and marriage, fatherhood, leadership, communication, you name it.

00:03:58.960 He's got it.

00:04:00.140 You're going to enjoy this one.

00:04:01.940 Larry, what's up, brother?

00:04:02.980 Good to see you.

00:04:03.720 It has been a little while since we did a podcast.

00:04:06.060 I figured with you coming out with your latest book, we probably ought to do this again.

00:04:10.340 Yeah, man, thanks for having me back.

00:04:11.800 It's always good to jam.

00:04:13.600 You know, I was thinking about this before we jumped on today.

00:04:16.760 I think you're ahead of me in maybe podcast episodes, but I was looking at, like, my episodes.

00:04:23.640 And as of next week, which will be my birthday, I will have crossed over 1,200 episodes.

00:04:29.040 But I think you're ahead of me on that one.

00:04:30.620 But I can't believe, like, you and I sitting here, we've known each other for nearly a decade, and all these shows that we've done, it's just crazy.

00:04:37.640 Isn't that weird when you say it that way?

00:04:40.140 We've known each other for a decade.

00:04:41.540 I'm like, no.

00:04:42.480 I'm like, a couple years, sure.

00:04:43.980 But man, to think how fast all this thing goes, and the changes, the ups and downs, and the highs and lows that both of us have had, and kids, and the struggles of raising kids.

00:04:53.840 And, you know, you and I have talked on a personal level about challenges between both of our children.

00:04:58.960 And, man, it's a ride.

00:05:02.020 Fatherhood, life, it is a ride.

00:05:03.880 It's a crazy roller coaster.

00:05:06.180 It really is, man.

00:05:07.500 And to be honest, too, like, I've really enjoyed, like, you know, our friendship, our conversations, you know, because, like, it's been, personally for me, man, it's been so helpful.

00:05:17.180 Like, I think a lot of people probably view maybe you and I on these platforms, like, you know, we have it all figured out.

00:05:23.720 We don't have these dark days.

00:05:24.840 We don't have, like, horrible times from time to time, you know, and we don't have these valleys.

00:05:29.660 We only have the peaks, which is totally not true.

00:05:33.200 And I know that, you know, you've helped me tremendously, you know, through things I've been through.

00:05:39.680 And I know even now, you and I are on a biweekly call with two other guys who are in this man space.

00:05:44.480 And that's been incredible for me and I know for the four of us.

00:05:49.900 I mean, we really, it's funny because we talk about this stuff on a daily basis, the importance of having men in your corner, men that you can turn to.

00:05:58.300 And yet, this is something that we only started doing, what, three, four months ago?

00:06:02.520 And we're talking about how important this is.

00:06:05.960 I think it just goes to show how hard it is for guys, especially considering, you know, men, like all of us, we have jobs.

00:06:13.640 We have our wife, our significant other, we have kids, we have responsibilities, we have church obligations and requirements.

00:06:21.420 Like, there's so much going on.

00:06:23.040 And I think you tell me what you see, but being around other men in some sort of organized capacity where you're there to develop and grow and learn and lean on each other is just something that I think a lot of people look at as a luxury, not a necessity.

00:06:37.900 I agree, especially, you know, in this day and age.

00:06:41.120 I mean, we've never been more connected as a society because all you have to do, and I use that term in quotes, right, connected, because like we see each other's lives through social media.

00:06:51.460 You know, we can contact each other easier.

00:06:53.400 Yet, I think we live in an age right now where, yeah, men, like, we're actually isolated even more.

00:07:03.420 Like, it's actually, it's harder for us.

00:07:06.220 But I would agree, it's a necessity.

00:07:09.080 It is not a luxury.

00:07:10.520 In fact, I think if you look back in time, you know, this was a necessity and this was a thing that men, you know, men did life together in community and in tribes.

00:07:19.680 And then I think, you know, for the past, I don't know, maybe century or so, we've gotten further and further away from that where I think a lot of people do view it more as a luxury now versus a necessity.

00:07:30.220 But it's absolutely a necessity.

00:07:31.920 And you and I, I mean, like, we see that in our communities.

00:07:36.120 But also now, since you and I and these two other gentlemen, Connor Beaton and Matt Bordeaux, you know, we're on a call every other week, you know, helping each other, leaning into each other.

00:07:47.220 And that has been a game changer, I know, for me as well.

00:07:50.920 Yeah.

00:07:51.440 No, I think it's important that we talk about, but we also embody it.

00:07:55.740 And, you know, in the spirit of the discussion I wanted to have with you today, it's obviously which is on fatherhood because that's primarily what you focus on.

00:08:05.160 There are things that need to be learned that I think men are really, really struggling with when it comes to fatherhood because so many men, and I know you and I have similar stories.

00:08:14.640 We never had really great examples of what it meant to be a man and what it meant to be a father.

00:08:20.740 And now, all of a sudden, you know, we're thrust into it.

00:08:23.540 In the first part of your book, you also, you talk about the dawn of fatherhood.

00:08:27.840 So when a man's going to become a father, that's a scary time. 0.68

00:08:31.600 Like, if you've never had kids before, that's so scary.

00:08:34.780 It's so nerve wracking.

00:08:35.660 And there's no real good information or example for what you should actually be doing.

00:08:43.320 Yeah.

00:08:43.720 Yeah, man.

00:08:44.880 So that first chapter of the dawn of fatherhood, you know, like I paint a picture.

00:08:49.040 And the picture is really, to be honest, like I'm trying to paint a picture of what's going on in a guy's head right before, you know, he's about ready to open that chapter.

00:08:56.480 You know, and in that chapter, I call it, you know, a part of when you have your first kid, a part of you dies.

00:09:03.120 But then another part of you, you know, that you didn't even really realize was there comes to life, right?

00:09:07.920 But it's this massive transition, and it is scary.

00:09:10.360 So like in that very first chapter, you know, I extract all of those fears that we have.

00:09:15.180 You know, it's like, am I going to be able to financially provide?

00:09:18.040 Am I going to be a good leader?

00:09:20.360 You know, am I going to, is my marriage going to completely deteriorate?

00:09:23.980 Just kind of a funny story around this.

00:09:25.740 Like I remember 18 years ago when my first son was born, right before he was born, like I remember how terrified I was and how nervous I was.

00:09:35.380 And everyone around me was like, oh, you must be so excited and this and that.

00:09:38.440 Like it must be, you must be just, you know, ecstatic.

00:09:41.280 And I'm like, and I just would nod my head and smile and be like, yeah, yeah.

00:09:44.200 And then it was my stepmom, so my dad's wife.

00:09:48.600 She's like one of the easiest people in the world to talk to.

00:09:50.780 And it was a week before my oldest was born.

00:09:53.420 And I'm sitting there at her dining room table, and it's just me and her having a cup of coffee.

00:09:57.620 And she's like, oh, my gosh, like it's down to the last seven days.

00:10:00.600 You must be so excited.

00:10:01.600 And I'll never forget this.

00:10:02.460 I'm like, yeah, I'm terrified.

00:10:04.760 And she's like, what?

00:10:06.520 And she's kind of like laughed.

00:10:07.660 And I was like, no, seriously, like I'm absolutely like so stressed out about this.

00:10:12.060 I'm so overwhelmed.

00:10:14.160 I don't know what to do.

00:10:15.320 And she's like, oh, you're being serious.

00:10:16.780 I'm like, yeah, I'm being serious.

00:10:17.980 I was like, I almost like I don't know what's going to happen.

00:10:21.620 Like what if what if me and Jessica's marriage like just go south?

00:10:24.540 What if what if I'm a terrible father?

00:10:26.020 What if I can't get the kid to stop crying?

00:10:27.740 Like what if I lose my patience?

00:10:29.200 What if I lose my job?

00:10:30.200 Like all these things that I was so terrified.

00:10:32.820 And I was just like a flood, just boom, right?

00:10:35.580 And she's like, oh, my gosh. 0.69

00:10:37.040 She's like, you know, it's been so long since obviously we've had like,

00:10:42.060 a baby like my, you know, your brothers are grown.

00:10:44.900 And she's like, I forgot all about those fears.

00:10:47.620 But yeah, those are real.

00:10:48.760 Like those are real fears.

00:10:49.940 And you know what?

00:10:50.840 No one really talks about them.

00:10:52.700 Yeah.

00:10:53.280 Well, what do you say to a guy who has those fears?

00:10:55.660 Because they are all valid.

00:10:56.760 You know, now it's not just you and it's not just your wife.

00:10:59.280 Now you're talking about bringing an innocent child who will literally die

00:11:02.500 if you don't provide and take care of this thing.

00:11:05.000 So what do you tell somebody who's going to become a father for the first time

00:11:10.120 or maybe even somebody who is a father,

00:11:12.140 what their role and responsibility is as a dad?

00:11:16.260 Like, is there some encapsulating principles that we should be striving for?

00:11:23.340 Yeah.

00:11:23.580 You know, I think the perception of, you know, like,

00:11:26.000 because I don't know about you, but like,

00:11:27.600 I started asking questions before my kid was born.

00:11:30.400 I'm like, you know, like, how do you make this work?

00:11:32.640 Like, how do you do it?

00:11:33.660 Like, how do you make sure?

00:11:35.480 And the answers that I got back from people were like,

00:11:38.720 you just do it.

00:11:40.260 You just, you just figure it out.

00:11:42.300 And I'm like, I don't know what it was about those answers,

00:11:44.640 but it never sat well with me.

00:11:46.820 I'm like, I don't want to, I don't want to just figure it out.

00:11:50.000 Like, that sounds horrible to me.

00:11:51.540 Like, I don't want to just do it.

00:11:52.980 Like, I want, I want to really understand what is required.

00:11:56.580 Right.

00:11:56.940 And, and what I need to do.

00:11:58.640 And it really, I mean, we could list off all the things.

00:12:00.820 Like, I think order of man, like provide, protect, preside, right?

00:12:05.140 Like those things are so important and they're very meaningful when it comes to fatherhood

00:12:09.500 and when you're leading your family.

00:12:11.120 But I also think, you know, while, while those words and those, those guidelines are very,

00:12:16.080 very real, I think the perception is that, well, I'm just going to go figure it out or

00:12:21.000 I'm just going to wing it.

00:12:22.180 Right.

00:12:22.440 I think the perception is that, or, or what, what's really effective is our egos, quite 0.90

00:12:29.380 frankly, just need to die.

00:12:31.080 And what I mean by that is our ego will tell us like, well, I'll just figure it out, I guess. 0.98

00:12:36.000 Right.

00:12:36.840 Versus like, no, I don't know what I'm doing here.

00:12:39.920 And I'm in some of these things that I'm fearful of.

00:12:42.920 What if I just go learn how to do these things?

00:12:45.660 Right.

00:12:46.400 And whether that's read a book, listen to a podcast, join a community, whatever it is that

00:12:51.360 you actually get to be a student, right?

00:12:55.040 Because anything that we do well in life, right.

00:12:57.560 And you know this, and so do I, you know, we learn how to do it well.

00:13:01.960 And I think that's one of the biggest missing things is like, we could list off all the things,

00:13:05.540 but that if, if you're not willing and open to be like, I don't know what I'm doing,

00:13:09.440 but I'm, I'm going to go learn.

00:13:11.760 I think that is the first domino that needs to fall.

00:13:15.160 Yeah.

00:13:15.700 Just being just constantly learning.

00:13:17.520 I know you feel this way.

00:13:18.460 I mean, over the 1200 episodes you've done, and I think I'm right.

00:13:21.360 I don't, I don't know right offhand, but I, I'm the, I'm the, I'm the beneficiary of the

00:13:27.940 work that we're doing.

00:13:28.720 Yeah.

00:13:28.860 Other people are being served.

00:13:30.220 Sure.

00:13:30.440 But I get to ask guys like you, all the questions I want to ask.

00:13:34.400 And so being able to be in this position of just constant learning is, is valuable.

00:13:38.660 I also think there's something to be said for doing the things that don't come easy for

00:13:44.760 you.

00:13:45.120 So for example, I tend to be pretty disciplined.

00:13:48.660 I tend to be pretty structured that, that comes easy for me.

00:13:52.680 That might've been developed.

00:13:53.780 It might just be because that's my, my nature.

00:13:56.440 So being able to provide that discipline and that structure in the relationship I have with

00:14:01.700 my children comes easy.

00:14:03.640 Where I fall short is patience, empathy, kindness.

00:14:09.100 So those are things that I could work on, but I know men who are extremely kind, empathetic,

00:14:15.920 patient, some of the most patient people you've ever met where a guy like that might be lacking

00:14:20.040 is structure, discipline, making sure that there's consequences for your actions and your

00:14:26.860 behavior.

00:14:27.220 But everybody needs to learn something different.

00:14:29.760 I think that's what makes it so challenging.

00:14:31.420 Yeah, I agree.

00:14:33.000 I mean, I think everyone, every single dad out there, we've got strengths and then we've

00:14:37.140 got things that we've got opportunities.

00:14:39.620 And, um, you know, one of the things that I struggle with is like, um, so I'm, I'm, I am

00:14:45.280 empathetic, um, but I can also be very direct.

00:14:49.040 Right.

00:14:49.480 And I try to choose the times to be empathetic and the times to be direct.

00:14:53.820 And sometimes I just completely, you know, face plant on that one.

00:14:56.980 Um, you know, we, we don't necessarily, sometimes we're not the best when it comes to structure,

00:15:02.240 right?

00:15:02.860 Like with, with the kids and they're, you know, we can be more reactive sometimes my

00:15:07.620 wife and I, right. 0.99

00:15:08.360 When it comes to behaviors or standards or things like that, that we see in the kids.

00:15:12.780 Uh, so we're, you know, we, we always have opportunities to improve upon the other thing

00:15:16.880 too, and I'm kind of ashamed to say this, but it is what it is.

00:15:19.700 And I've always been this way.

00:15:21.520 I find it one of, one of my opportunities of growth is just playing with my kids.

00:15:27.340 Now, when my kids are older, like I have an 18 year old and a 16 year old, like I love,

00:15:32.420 and now I have a 10 year old, like we, we throw the football.

00:15:34.760 Yeah, that's easy.

00:15:35.560 Like we throw the football around and we, we wrestle each other.

00:15:39.300 Right.

00:15:39.600 And we do that, but like I took my, I've really been, and I'll just share like one of my weak

00:15:45.040 points right now.

00:15:46.140 One of my weakest points right now is the relationship I have with my youngest and that's

00:15:50.020 my eight year old.

00:15:50.740 And I don't know if that's, I don't know why that is.

00:15:53.420 I think it's because, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that I'm so tight

00:15:57.760 with my teenagers, like my older two, and I'm pretty tight with my 10 year old, but I,

00:16:02.220 but it's almost like this sort of more adult relationship now, you know, and it's, it's

00:16:07.920 very easy and it's really, really connected.

00:16:10.260 And we have like these really cool conversations about being a man and navigating life and the

00:16:16.120 things they're going through with their friends and their girlfriends.

00:16:18.120 And like, I love that stuff.

00:16:20.120 And then, but when it comes to my eight year old, it's harder for me.

00:16:22.960 Like I took him, I've been really, really diligent lately about like, I need to spend

00:16:26.860 time with this kid.

00:16:27.960 Like I've got to have a connection with this kid.

00:16:30.020 Cause I really don't have a deep one right now.

00:16:32.100 So I took him to the pool the other night, just me and him, our subdivision pool.

00:16:35.720 And he's got like this crazy, crazy, like imagination.

00:16:39.500 Like he plays by himself like so well, he's not a big screen kid.

00:16:43.600 So he's always playing with toys, always using his imagination and we got in the pool and

00:16:47.940 we both have water guns.

00:16:48.920 I'm like, what are we doing?

00:16:49.560 He's like, we're going to play adventure of Zelda.

00:16:51.900 And I'm like, okay, what, what does that mean?

00:16:55.100 And he goes, he's like, just follow me.

00:16:57.360 And I'm like, okay.

00:16:59.200 And so I'm like following him through the pool and we're like shooting these dragons and monsters.

00:17:05.220 And I'm like, what are we doing?

00:17:06.940 You know?

00:17:07.240 And I'm just like, I'm, I'm trying to get into it.

00:17:09.500 I'm laughing through it, but I'm like, I, you know, I, I can tell that that,

00:17:13.300 that's a struggle for me.

00:17:14.580 Like I just playing with him, but I also know it's like super important too.

00:17:18.920 Yeah.

00:17:19.360 I mean, that's something that I, I, I think we're in a similar boat on that.

00:17:22.740 Cause I've got four as well, uh, three boys and a daughter.

00:17:26.920 My youngest is eight and I love that kid.

00:17:30.300 We have a great time together, but I've really had to just let go of any expectation.

00:17:34.400 Cause you're right.

00:17:35.340 When my oldest who's 16 now wants to hang out, we, we hunt together.

00:17:40.220 We, we, the older boy, I'll go outside and we'll play basketball with the boys.

00:17:45.280 Like that's easy.

00:17:46.360 But then I asked my youngest, I'm like, what do you want to do?

00:17:48.500 He's like, let's do Pokemon.

00:17:51.160 I'm like, I don't want to do that.

00:17:52.940 Or, or the other day he's like, well, how do we do that?

00:17:56.080 Can we play with Legos?

00:17:58.060 Yeah.

00:17:58.760 I'm like, yeah, let's go do Legos.

00:18:00.360 And so we go into the room and I'm thinking he wants to build.

00:18:03.540 No, he doesn't want to build.

00:18:04.420 He wants to take the Lego vehicles that we already made and like play with them.

00:18:09.760 I'm like, I don't, I don't know how to do that.

00:18:12.400 Like it's like, doesn't compute for me or something, you know?

00:18:15.920 And, uh, and like you said with, with the pool, it's like, man, you just, I'm trying to let go

00:18:22.300 of just, just let go.

00:18:24.860 That's it.

00:18:25.200 Just, Hey, if he wants to play Pokemon or take the truck, like whatever, fine, whatever.

00:18:31.260 That has actually been really helpful, but a real struggle for me too.

00:18:35.200 Yeah, man.

00:18:35.960 Yeah.

00:18:36.520 And my eight-year-old's into Pokemon too.

00:18:38.800 And I'm like, what do these cards even mean?

00:18:40.440 He's like, oh, this one's powerful.

00:18:41.540 I'm like, how do you know?

00:18:42.960 Like, it doesn't make sense to me, but yeah, I know it's funny.

00:18:49.900 Um, you know, I do, I am curious how you get feedback from your kids because it, I think

00:18:56.400 feedback's important, right?

00:18:57.700 And you talk about, uh, developing compassionate communication, but how does a guy get feedback

00:19:02.620 from his children in the ways that he's doing good and well, and the things that he can improve

00:19:07.760 on?

00:19:08.020 Because I mean, obviously we all, I think anybody listening to either one of our podcasts wants

00:19:13.360 to get better.

00:19:14.540 So how do you get the feedback?

00:19:16.180 Is it just observation?

00:19:17.340 Is there a series of questions that you ask or tools, resources that you use to get really

00:19:23.700 good information to further develop that connection with your, your children?

00:19:28.840 Yeah.

00:19:29.120 So, um, this, this probably sounds like, and as you're asking that I'm, I'm pulling something

00:19:33.920 up here because, uh, I'll, I'll share with you exactly what I do.

00:19:37.000 Um, so, um, you know, we, we've got two programs within, within that edge.

00:19:41.860 One is the Alliance.

00:19:42.740 We've had that one for years.

00:19:43.760 And then the other one's called the boardroom and that's for our business owners.

00:19:46.760 And, um, our business owners, you know, we, when it comes to them, you know, one of the

00:19:53.020 things that they truly want, like the guys who come and do life with us, they already

00:19:56.400 usually have like a really successful business, but what they really want is like, okay, how

00:20:01.500 do I take some of these skills that like helped me build this empire?

00:20:04.320 And like, where I'm not leaving like my best relationships that are under my own roof on

00:20:08.840 the table.

00:20:09.260 Right.

00:20:10.280 So we really help those guys elevate, you know, we help them with business obviously,

00:20:14.340 but we help them elevate those relationships even more.

00:20:17.160 So what we did was, is we actually developed, um, a tool.

00:20:21.160 We call it the five dials.

00:20:22.860 Um, but one of the tools is what we call the family score and we as coaches.

00:20:27.720 So I'm only, I'm one of four guys who coach these guys and, um, we all are required to

00:20:33.020 do this as well.

00:20:33.740 So one of the things that we do on this family score tool is we, every quarter I sit

00:20:39.280 down with my family, it's my wife, my two older boys, and now my 10 year old, because

00:20:43.180 he understands this stuff as well.

00:20:45.260 Um, and I take them through 10 questions and I tell them, I was like, I need you to be

00:20:50.420 brutally honest, like absolutely brutally honest.

00:20:53.220 You're not going to be in trouble.

00:20:54.080 You're not going to hurt my feelings.

00:20:55.020 I need to know what, where I'm going, what I'm doing well, and I need to know where I can

00:20:58.920 improve.

00:20:59.360 So these, so they, they rate me on a scale of one to five.

00:21:04.320 One is not at all.

00:21:06.160 Two is not too often.

00:21:08.220 Three is sometimes four as often and five is all the time.

00:21:11.240 So like, for instance, the first question is I balance my time well between family and

00:21:16.160 business and they can rate me one.

00:21:18.900 Yeah.

00:21:19.180 You're terrible at that.

00:21:20.040 Not at all.

00:21:20.560 Or five all the time you do well with that or somewhere in between.

00:21:24.860 And then they rate me on that.

00:21:26.240 Second question is I'm calm under pressure and patient with you.

00:21:29.360 And everyone else.

00:21:30.720 Third one is I'm quick to admit, apologize, and learn from my mistakes.

00:21:34.360 Number four is I listen attentively to you and others.

00:21:37.180 Five, I am kind, respectful, and emotionally connected to you.

00:21:40.640 Six, I lead by example and model the kind of life we want for our kids.

00:21:45.620 Seven, I'm fun to be around.

00:21:49.380 Seven, they, they, they, they made a joke.

00:21:52.800 That's always a one or what?

00:21:53.760 We went through that one.

00:21:55.420 They're just like, oh, it depends.

00:21:58.140 Like, you know, so like, yeah.

00:22:00.340 Eight is I make you feel better when you're having a bad day.

00:22:02.680 Is it chore day or is it like, are we at the pool?

00:22:07.620 Yeah, it depends, right?

00:22:08.940 Like I make sure that I, I give them this survey when we've had a really good day.

00:22:13.280 But no, you know, nine is I do things that make you feel loved, appreciated, supported.

00:22:17.080 And 10 is I follow through on my commitments.

00:22:18.960 So those are the 10 questions.

00:22:20.460 And then they rate me.

00:22:21.720 And I actually do a self-evaluation before I have them rate me.

00:22:26.420 And I compare the scores.

00:22:28.860 And the thing that I've found, because we've been doing this now for a year and a half,

00:22:33.000 I've found that in some of those categories, I'm much harder on myself than they are on me.

00:22:38.840 And they're like, no, it actually isn't as bad as you think.

00:22:40.880 And then they'll give me the evidence to prove.

00:22:42.820 And then there are some where I actually rate myself higher.

00:22:44.980 And they're like, eh, not so much.

00:22:47.320 Like, these are some things that we've experienced with you.

00:22:50.000 And it's really good feedback.

00:22:52.840 But that's one of the ways I do it.

00:22:54.940 And then a second way that I do it is, you know, it's more of a roses and thorn conversation

00:23:02.360 where it's more just not that highly organized as like them doing a survey.

00:23:06.580 But I'll just ask them, I'm like, what are some things that I do as your dad that you

00:23:13.220 absolutely love, like that you would love to see more of, right?

00:23:16.520 And then there's a question I say, well, what are some things that I do that you would actually

00:23:20.960 like to see less of, right?

00:23:22.700 And I'll get great feedback.

00:23:24.940 Yeah, that's good.

00:23:25.760 You know, when you were talking about the questions, I got thinking in my mind, like,

00:23:29.700 are you getting, the question that came up for me is, is the feedback accurate, right?

00:23:36.100 Because a lot of the times, for example, the work-life balance thing, the family work balance

00:23:40.600 thing, kids don't know that they, I mean, look, if in their eyes, they'd love to have

00:23:46.340 you there a hundred percent of the time.

00:23:47.620 And that's just not realistic.

00:23:48.780 It's not feasible.

00:23:50.460 So I was thinking to myself, man, the feedback's not great, but you're just trying to get their

00:23:55.720 perception of it.

00:23:56.740 And then you guys can have, it sounds like a further discussion about, hey, here's why

00:24:01.100 I do go to work.

00:24:02.000 Hey, I appreciate you wanting me to be here and I want to be here too.

00:24:04.520 But you can have a further discussion.

00:24:06.580 You're not taking this as unequivocal truth.

00:24:08.880 It's just what they're experiencing, it sounds like.

00:24:11.860 Yeah, it's, it's really how I get a good glimpse of how they see things through their

00:24:16.700 eyes, which I, which I really like.

00:24:18.100 And you're right.

00:24:18.580 Some things, you know, can be accurate and some, some it's just like, well, you know,

00:24:22.420 that perception might be a little off and then there's an opportunity to explain it.

00:24:26.080 Um, another interesting thing that, um, and I think this really goes back to perception.

00:24:33.820 Um, my wife just brought this to my attention and I was like, oh my gosh, this is so simple

00:24:38.800 yet.

00:24:39.980 It's something that I've missed because I perceive it through a certain lens.

00:24:43.720 And, but yet my kids and family, my wife sees this through a different lens.

00:24:47.420 So, um, in, in the times and in the days where I have like, you know, a challenging day, you

00:24:54.400 know, or I'm like, I'm not feeling my best or like something maybe bad happened, you know,

00:24:59.900 within the organization or something like that, that I'm dealing with.

00:25:03.980 Um, I, when my kids will come to me, like I, they can kind of see it and they'll be like,

00:25:09.200 Hey, are you okay?

00:25:09.960 You, you seem like you're upset or you seem like you're bad.

00:25:13.220 And the first thing I'll do is like, no, I'm fine.

00:25:16.180 And it has nothing to do with them.

00:25:17.740 Right.

00:25:17.980 It has nothing to do with my wife, has nothing to do with my kids.

00:25:19.720 I'm like, no, I'm fine.

00:25:21.220 And my wife came to me and she's like, you know, are you, is it us?

00:25:26.980 Like, are, are, are you upset with us?

00:25:28.780 And I'm like, no, like not at all.

00:25:31.180 Why?

00:25:31.480 And she's like, well, she's like, have you ever thought about actually just communicating

00:25:35.980 what it is that's on your mind?

00:25:37.880 And I was like, what do you mean?

00:25:38.620 She's like, just simply say like, I just had a bad day at work.

00:25:42.240 And I'm just thinking through some things in my mind.

00:25:45.560 If I seem distracted or if I seem angry or overwhelmed, it has nothing to do with you.

00:25:49.380 I'm just trying to figure some things out.

00:25:50.900 And I'm like, no, I haven't really thought of that.

00:25:53.400 And she's like, she's like, well, you should do that.

00:25:55.940 Like communicate because, and I started doing that.

00:25:59.000 And that's where like my perception of like, you know, yes, I'm having a bad moment, but

00:26:04.480 I don't want you to see it.

00:26:05.540 Like, that's my perception.

00:26:06.660 Like, I don't want my kids to see that.

00:26:08.120 And I think that's like a dude thing.

00:26:09.440 I think it's a guy thing.

00:26:10.900 But, but the way my kids receive that is, did I do something wrong?

00:26:16.100 Like, am I in trouble?

00:26:17.360 Am I, am I doing something that annoys you or whatever?

00:26:20.240 And it's like, that's the furthest thing from the truth.

00:26:22.200 And I'd had no clue.

00:26:24.300 That's how they perceive that response from me until my wife brought it to my attention.

00:26:28.180 I think that's really good feedback.

00:26:29.800 You know, I think if I had to guess, and I've been here too, is the re like, my son says

00:26:33.720 that, Hey, are you fine?

00:26:34.540 Are you okay, dad?

00:26:35.160 I'm like, yeah, I'm fine.

00:26:36.180 When clearly I'm not, you know, no, nobody's going to ask you that question.

00:26:39.400 If they don't experience something, it's the same thing.

00:26:41.940 When a guy asks his wife, Hey, babe, are you fine?

00:26:43.880 And she's like, yeah, I'm fine.

00:26:45.680 Which is means the exact opposite.

00:26:48.440 You're not fine.

00:26:49.820 And I would like to know what it is.

00:26:52.200 I think men probably perceive it as, uh, being weak.

00:26:56.900 Uh, and another reason I think that we would be hesitant to share that way is because at

00:27:01.720 least for me, I don't want to unload my burdens unnecessarily on my children.

00:27:06.620 And I don't actually think it either are true.

00:27:09.000 There's a way to do that appropriately.

00:27:10.940 And there's a way that you actually, there's a term I heard called parentification.

00:27:15.140 Have you heard that term?

00:27:16.380 I haven't now.

00:27:18.080 It's, it's really interesting phenomenon.

00:27:20.060 It happens a lot in, in divorces where, uh, a parent will turn their child into, uh, an

00:27:28.460 emotional support unit and they'll begin to unload their emotional, mental, and even

00:27:35.940 sometimes physical burdens on their child.

00:27:38.420 And then that child starts to believe they're in a parenting role because they're being treated

00:27:44.720 as a significant other as opposed to a child.

00:27:47.000 So it actually can take place where you are dumping your baggage onto your children.

00:27:53.380 And of course we don't want to do that as men.

00:27:56.980 No, no, that's like, I think that's not the goal of any guy that wants to do that.

00:28:01.460 Right.

00:28:01.680 Which is probably the biggest reason, like you were saying, like that we respond with like,

00:28:05.300 no, I'm good.

00:28:06.340 Like, I don't, you know, cause I, I don't want to, and it's true.

00:28:09.900 Now that you say that, like, I don't want to like share with them, like, yeah, I'm stressed

00:28:14.420 out about this, this, or this.

00:28:15.740 Like, I don't, they don't need to like, in my mind anyway, they don't need to bear the

00:28:21.480 cross of that.

00:28:22.100 Right.

00:28:22.300 They don't need to bear that burden and they don't even, I think it, but at the same time,

00:28:26.700 I also need to let, let them off the hook and let them know, like, it has nothing to

00:28:30.380 do with them.

00:28:31.060 Right.

00:28:31.420 It's just something that shouldn't, you know, I, I'm in my head, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to

00:28:35.360 figure some things out, but it has nothing to do with you.

00:28:37.360 We're good.

00:28:38.020 We're great.

00:28:38.380 And I think that's what they more, I think that's what they really need.

00:28:42.580 Yeah.

00:28:44.800 Man, I'm going to step away just very, very quickly.

00:28:46.880 We'll get right back to it.

00:28:47.860 Um, I just want to let you know one quick and easy way to support the mission to reclaim

00:28:52.100 and restore masculinity, which is what we're doing here is through our merchandise store

00:28:56.760 at store.orderofman.com.

00:28:58.480 Uh, we've got half a dozen new shirt designs.

00:29:01.500 We've got four new hat styles to choose from, including a blaze orange camouflage hat for

00:29:07.260 those hunters as we, uh, are going to be fast approaching hunting season.

00:29:11.820 Uh, and also know that when you support us, we aren't shipping shirts out of China or some

00:29:17.100 unknown warehouse in who knows where my oldest son and I fill every single order out of our

00:29:23.460 garage that comes to us.

00:29:24.680 In fact, he's coming over as soon as I'm done recording this podcast to fill some store

00:29:28.900 orders.

00:29:29.440 Now I tell you that because he and I really care that you support this movement.

00:29:33.820 Uh, we're not outsourcing any of that.

00:29:35.860 We do it in-house here because we care about it.

00:29:38.000 We care about you, but he's also learning valuable customer service and inventory and

00:29:42.560 supply and ordering skills in the meantime.

00:29:45.200 So if you want to look good and you want to let the world know where you stand on what

00:29:49.660 it means to be a man, then head to store.orderofman.com.

00:29:53.260 Again, six new shirt designs, four new hat designs.

00:29:56.040 We've got our best-selling battle planners over there, decals, patches, books, journals.

00:30:02.740 We've got it all store.orderofman.com.

00:30:04.920 Check it out.

00:30:06.020 Well, I also think as you're saying this and I'm not great at this, this is something I'm

00:30:10.080 actually taking away and I can do better.

00:30:11.880 Um, so thanks to your wife for helping me as well.

00:30:15.200 And the rest of the guys who are listening, um, is she's pretty smart.

00:30:19.900 There's some learning moments here, right?

00:30:22.620 Like there's, there's some, some, some teaching opportunities here.

00:30:27.600 Like if you're having a bad day at work, man, you could teach your children to whatever degree

00:30:32.560 they can understand, like what work is and work isn't always perfect.

00:30:36.400 Uh, or maybe you're dealing with some bad news and you decide to share it in an inappropriate

00:30:40.680 way.

00:30:41.740 I think it's actually pretty healthy.

00:30:43.360 If you can be reasonable, you can respond to it well, and then walk your child through

00:30:48.280 what you might be experiencing.

00:30:50.320 Cause it's likely that at some point in their life, they're going to experience the same

00:30:53.920 thing.

00:30:54.340 It seems like it's a healthy practice.

00:30:56.220 I agree.

00:30:57.040 I mean, like I, even with my wife telling me that I'm like, you know, if I'm modeling,

00:31:02.040 like when, when something is wrong and I'm modeling it by just literally like kind of

00:31:08.040 like emotionally and even like, even physically like pushing them off, like I'm good, like

00:31:12.780 kind of like almost like the, the energy of just don't mess with me.

00:31:16.460 Right.

00:31:16.900 I think you're sending the message of, you know, you don't even want the people around

00:31:22.620 that care about you the most.

00:31:24.160 Right.

00:31:24.500 But I think it also like, if you were able to articulate, my wife brought this up to

00:31:29.600 me.

00:31:29.760 She's like, do you realize that if you're able to articulate what's going on in your

00:31:34.920 world to the kids, like you don't have to like burden them with what's going on, but

00:31:38.240 just say, simply say, I'm having a bad day today.

00:31:40.780 You know, this happened and I'm just trying to deal with it right now.

00:31:43.860 And, and I'm trying to sort through some things that, you know, what we could do to solve

00:31:48.120 it.

00:31:48.320 And I kind of, she's like, what you're actually teaching them is tremendous self-awareness

00:31:53.380 and tremendous communication.

00:31:56.320 She's like, how many grown men and actually even grown adults too.

00:32:00.360 I don't think this is necessarily a man or a woman thing because I think we both do it.

00:32:05.000 I think it's just women are better about it, explaining what's going on in their world. 1.00

00:32:09.100 But how many, how many times does a guy just respond just reactively?

00:32:15.240 Like, I'm fine.

00:32:16.160 Like, and it's, it's almost with that energy of like, I'm fine.

00:32:20.600 It's like, I'm, I'm not fine and leave me alone.

00:32:23.380 Like, that's actually what it probably feels like to them.

00:32:26.180 She's like, but if you just simply explain like what's going on, you're teaching them

00:32:31.120 self-awareness.

00:32:31.980 And then by explaining, you're teaching them clear communication that, you know, you're

00:32:36.580 letting this person off the hook.

00:32:37.680 So when they go to have their own relationships, like their own marriages that with their kids,

00:32:42.020 like that's what they're going to do.

00:32:43.600 Otherwise you're going to be raising these men, these young men just to say fine.

00:32:47.020 And then they're pushing their family off like you are.

00:32:49.000 And I'm like, that's a good point.

00:32:54.220 You're right.

00:32:54.920 And I hate it.

00:32:55.480 Yeah.

00:32:59.280 There's also emotional regulation.

00:33:02.760 You know, I, I think we, as men put that off and we say I'm fine.

00:33:05.940 And I, I actually believe we have noble intent behind it.

00:33:10.440 A hundred percent.

00:33:11.740 And it's not always, it's not that we're doing something because our intentions are misguided.

00:33:16.960 Oh, they're misguided, but they're not, they're not malicious.

00:33:19.540 I'll say it that way.

00:33:21.420 Um, but there's this thing.

00:33:23.180 I was talking to my girlfriend just the other day about this, uh, emotional regulation for

00:33:26.820 our children.

00:33:27.220 Like we all experience emotions.

00:33:28.620 We all have them.

00:33:29.880 And if we can't manage and regulate our emotions properly, then there's no way we can help our

00:33:35.740 children manage the emotions that they're experiencing in their life.

00:33:39.180 So when you're actually addressing or acknowledging that you're emotional about something and you're

00:33:44.960 handling it in a positive, manly, masculine way, they're going to see that and think, okay, well,

00:33:50.120 there's a good modeling to use your word.

00:33:51.840 There's good modeling on how I can behave when I'm mad or sad or upset or whatever.

00:33:57.900 Yeah, I think, and that's, that's how they're going to learn.

00:34:00.400 Right.

00:34:00.620 I mean, you and I know Bedros Koulian and he's got that quote, which is the best lessons in

00:34:05.000 life are caught, not taught.

00:34:06.660 So if we're not doing those things, they're not going to learn, you know, and we could tell

00:34:10.500 them all day long, Hey, talk to me, open up to me what's going on.

00:34:12.980 But if we're not modeling that for them, um, it's, you know, we're going to fall short.

00:34:18.120 I think have you, when you do that, uh, the survey specifically, and I'm sure there's other

00:34:23.700 times in life too, but have you ever reacted poorly to any feedback that your kids have

00:34:31.240 given you?

00:34:32.220 And if that's the case, how did you rectify it?

00:34:35.640 So you can still continue to get the feedback that you want.

00:34:38.160 You know, that's a great question and I'll be, I'll be honest.

00:34:43.580 Uh, no, I haven't.

00:34:44.940 And that's because to be honest, uh, when I, when I go through those surveys, I'm, I'm

00:34:50.080 expecting like, I'm, I'm, I'm almost like bracing myself for something that's going to

00:34:55.040 come my way.

00:34:55.920 And I'm a, I'm a pretty self-aware person.

00:34:58.700 So like, I know, you know, what, what my shortcomings are.

00:35:02.680 I know what my problems are.

00:35:04.560 And so like, when my kids bring them up to me, I'm like, yeah, it's pretty much what I

00:35:09.460 was thinking too, you know?

00:35:10.720 So like, um, I haven't really, I haven't experienced that.

00:35:15.260 Um, I will say this though.

00:35:18.060 Um, when I, when I can prep for that, because that's like on my terms, right?

00:35:23.100 I'm like, okay, I know today's the day I'm going to be giving them the survey over dinner

00:35:27.440 and like, you know, so like I can prep for that.

00:35:29.800 Right.

00:35:30.860 There are times though, when I haven't reacted very well, when I'm taken by surprise.

00:35:36.120 So like, um, I asked my wife, cause I, I went through, um, I would say the past, like, and

00:35:41.420 you know this cause we've been on bi-weekly calls, but like, I've really through the process

00:35:46.320 of writing this book and, and some, some, there were some major challenges that came my way.

00:35:51.160 Um, I would say from August up until probably beginning of March.

00:35:55.900 Right.

00:35:56.420 I mean, and I was in a bad mental place, man.

00:35:59.220 I was really struggling with, um, even writing this book and, but I think everything happens

00:36:03.540 for a reason.

00:36:04.080 And I, I remember, you know, feeling like this distancing between like me and Jessica and

00:36:13.420 even like this distancing between like me and the kids.

00:36:15.920 And I just couldn't figure it out.

00:36:17.300 And I remember sitting down with my wife and I asked her one day, I was like, Hey, you

00:36:23.400 know, is there something going on here that I should know about?

00:36:26.640 And she's like, what are you talking about?

00:36:27.680 And I was like, I don't know.

00:36:28.560 I was like, I just feel like our connection's really off.

00:36:32.480 And even my, you know, connection with the kids is off and I don't know what's going on.

00:36:37.640 And she just kind of looked at me and she was like, I have some feedback.

00:36:41.280 Do you want to hear it? 0.99

00:36:41.960 And I'm like, Oh shit. 0.99

00:36:44.120 Right. 0.99

00:36:44.500 And I'm like, um, I'm like, nope.

00:36:48.080 Uh, and I just, I literally like, I had no, no time to like brace myself for that one.

00:36:53.580 And, uh, but, but I said, yes, I was like, yep.

00:36:56.980 And she was like, okay.

00:36:59.000 She's like, well, she's like, you're, you haven't been the same guy for like months.

00:37:05.060 And I'm like, what do you mean?

00:37:05.980 And I knew what she meant, but like to hear from her perspective, she's like, you're so

00:37:10.960 distant.

00:37:11.980 Like you're in your head a lot lately and like, you're quiet, you're cold.

00:37:17.540 And she's like, and I know you, I've known you for so long.

00:37:20.080 I know that's your way of distancing yourself because you're trying to like figure things

00:37:23.840 out and manage your, your, your mind and your head and all that.

00:37:27.220 She's like, but by distancing yourself from us, we don't feel connected to you.

00:37:32.340 And she's like, I didn't want to tell you this, but like the boys have asked me a lot,

00:37:37.960 like, what's wrong with dad?

00:37:40.520 Like, why is dad so angry?

00:37:42.760 Why is dad so frustrated?

00:37:44.360 Why does dad speak to me the way he does?

00:37:46.600 And she's, and I was like, do I speak to the, she's like, yeah, like you have like this

00:37:49.940 very direct sort of cold tone to you every now and again.

00:37:53.100 And I never used to see it before now.

00:37:55.340 And now I do.

00:37:56.200 And she's like, you know, you're even kind of colder and distant with me.

00:38:00.020 Like, I'll ask you what's going on or like whatever.

00:38:02.340 Or I try to help you or I'll like come up behind you and I'll rub your shoulders.

00:38:05.120 You don't even respond.

00:38:06.260 And I'm like, and it was like all these things that I wasn't really fully aware of.

00:38:11.300 Cause I was in here, you know, a lot.

00:38:13.200 And I wasn't like my mind and heart wasn't with them.

00:38:16.160 And that was hard, man.

00:38:17.620 I was like, I was just like, I looked at my wife and I was like, have I done damage that's

00:38:24.280 unrecoverable?

00:38:25.660 And she's like, no, but you're getting close.

00:38:29.320 And I'm like, oh my God.

00:38:31.000 So dude, I, um, yeah, I, and, and you guys, you guys helped me, you know, the four of you

00:38:36.000 guys, you know, you Connor Beaton, Matt Perdote, you guys held me accountable to do something

00:38:40.600 that made me feel so damn uncomfortable, but I did it.

00:38:43.260 And so there was, there was a lot of ownership that needed to happen based on that feedback.

00:38:48.680 And I wrote my family like a three page letter, just owning everything that I had done, you

00:38:56.080 know, over that, over like that six months.

00:38:58.880 And I told them, I was like, I have a letter that I want to read.

00:39:02.400 And this was over dinner.

00:39:03.220 I was like, I have a letter I want to read to you guys.

00:39:06.300 And it's hard.

00:39:07.200 It's going to be really freaking hard for me to get through it.

00:39:09.420 And they're like, okay.

00:39:11.680 And so I literally just read this letter and I'm not a big crier and I freaking lost it,

00:39:20.100 man.

00:39:20.400 Just lost it.

00:39:21.360 Like, I'm just trying to get through this letter.

00:39:23.280 Cause like I was pointing out all these things that I know that I had done and like how they

00:39:27.740 were probably feeling.

00:39:28.620 And, and one thing that I can tell you is like, it was a hard moment, but everyone after

00:39:37.080 I got done, like stood up and we like got in this circle and I, it was just received

00:39:44.700 with so much grace and so much, uh, support and forgiveness.

00:39:50.760 And, but that was freaking hard, man.

00:39:53.680 Yeah.

00:39:55.060 Yeah.

00:39:55.700 Yeah.

00:39:56.080 I'm, I'm getting a little emotional just hearing that story.

00:39:58.980 Cause there's things that I've had to talk with my children about in my own behavior that

00:40:05.260 are just absolutely there.

00:40:09.580 Some are embarrassing.

00:40:11.020 Some are just hard to share, you know, it's just, it's painful, but it's really healing.

00:40:16.900 Like it actually is really healing.

00:40:18.440 And I think it helps bridge that gap outside of the way that you responded with that, with

00:40:23.620 your wife and kids.

00:40:25.500 Um, how did you get out of your own head?

00:40:27.540 Cause there's a lot of guys I've, I've been here.

00:40:30.120 I'm not in that space now.

00:40:31.440 I know at some point in the not so distant future, there will be things in my life that

00:40:35.740 caused me to get that way.

00:40:36.820 I think this is a pretty typical phenomenon for men when we have so much coming at us.

00:40:42.160 How did you begin to, yes, you apologized and you you're making amends with the relationship,

00:40:48.320 but what did you do personally for yourself to get you in a better, a better place, mentally,

00:40:53.920 emotionally, spiritually, et cetera.

00:40:55.500 Uh, you know, there, there, there's, there's a lot.

00:40:59.080 And I think that, um, I think we, as men, we, we leave a lot on the table when it comes

00:41:05.180 to like really stacking in some positive things that will elevate us.

00:41:09.920 And some of the things are super easy to miss the, the, the most powerful domino that fell

00:41:15.640 was, you know, I, I can't remember if it was just you and I just talking, just, um, just

00:41:21.620 over text, but it was like, I think it w it was me that was just like, Hey man, like

00:41:26.860 I, I need P I need other leaders in my life right now.

00:41:31.240 Like I, right now, like I'm, I'm leading, you know, this, you know, the art community

00:41:36.660 and I'm, you know, I'm, I'm coaching other men.

00:41:38.500 Like I'm doing so much pouring out into other people.

00:41:41.580 I'm not actually getting any fuel myself right now.

00:41:44.660 And that's when you and I started talking and we're like, well, what if, and you were,

00:41:48.820 you were telling me, you're like, I'm kind of feeling the same way.

00:41:51.180 Like, I don't really have like that go-to and I'm not going to go to my community for

00:41:54.580 that.

00:41:54.840 I need other people that understand like what I'm doing, where I'm at.

00:41:59.420 And then you and I roped in Connor and then we roped in Matt and, you know, having that

00:42:04.600 bi-weekly call with the four of us has been a total game changer.

00:42:08.460 And even though sometimes like, you know, we're, I know you, the four of us were planning an

00:42:12.720 event, right?

00:42:13.220 So that, you know, the part of that call is help, you know, planning for that event.

00:42:17.400 But, um, the other half of the call is like allowing the guys to have a hot seat, you

00:42:23.680 know, us to have a hot seat, right.

00:42:24.960 And for us to just call each other forward and to point out blind spots.

00:42:28.960 And even if I'm not in the hot seat, you know, or if it's you or Connor or one of the other

00:42:34.240 guys or Matt, I still get so much value out of that because I'm like, I, you know, you

00:42:39.820 get to extract all these different things that you're like, oh my gosh, like I'm not Matt,

00:42:43.820 but I kind of experiencing something like what he's going through and we're getting

00:42:47.260 all this great feedback.

00:42:48.700 So having that circle of like-minded men back in my life, that is number one.

00:42:55.180 Um, it's a game changer.

00:42:56.500 And even like the four of us on that text thread, like when something, you know, happens

00:43:01.560 or we have a question about our businesses, like, I know I just asked you guys, I'm like,

00:43:04.740 Hey, I, have you guys thought about this in your business?

00:43:07.000 Cause I'm thinking about it right now.

00:43:08.200 And just having like a soundboard for that.

00:43:11.200 Um, the other thing too, is, uh, I don't think we can ever, ever, um, miss, you know,

00:43:18.060 health and fitness.

00:43:18.980 And I don't mean like you have to have a six pack to be a dad or anything like that, but

00:43:23.600 like being able for me, fitness is like that, that physical, emotional, mental outlet, you

00:43:31.660 know, to where like, I can like literally take, you know, all my stress or whatever it is

00:43:37.060 I'm going through, or even just the enjoyment of, of the endorphins that I get when I, when

00:43:41.820 I do fitness.

00:43:42.580 So fitness is another one.

00:43:44.000 The other one too, is like, if I eat bad, like, and I know a lot of us, like we, we just

00:43:48.940 sort of like, it's a, we're like a fast food country.

00:43:50.860 Right.

00:43:51.700 But dude, if I eat bad, like that impacts my mental health. 0.98

00:43:55.360 Like, because I feel like absolute garbage.

00:43:57.580 If I eat bad, you know, if I'm drinking, you know, if I, if I go out on the weekends and 0.65

00:44:02.120 I, and I have a few drinks, you know, by Sunday, like I'm, I'm not in the best like

00:44:06.340 mental and emotional state because, you know, I've, I've had like one or two nights of where

00:44:10.280 I've had a few drinks, you know?

00:44:11.860 So I think like really understanding like the, the inputs that we have, whether that

00:44:17.220 be media, whether that be nutrition, whether that be alcohol or whatever it is, like you

00:44:23.600 need to tighten those things up because it's only going to help you feel better and show

00:44:29.320 up better.

00:44:30.120 You know, if you're not putting the negative things in and also I would say to neglecting

00:44:34.340 neglecting like your body because, and I think that that's a, that's a big miss for

00:44:39.500 guys sometimes as we, but going back to what you said, I think guys neglect that part of

00:44:45.980 it because it's, it comes from a noble place.

00:44:48.520 Like they're like, well, I don't, I don't have time to take care of myself.

00:44:51.140 Cause I'm, I need to take care of everybody else.

00:44:52.760 But I think there, we, we leave a lot on the table when we don't take care of ourselves

00:44:56.440 because we can actually serve and lead at a much higher level, much higher frequency.

00:45:01.340 If, uh, if we're, if we're taking care of ourselves.

00:45:04.920 Well, and, and let's be honest too.

00:45:07.040 I mean, we say that, right.

00:45:08.260 I can't go work out cause I'm too busy providing for my family or doing this or that like that,

00:45:13.540 that I've heard it referred to as a noble obstacle.

00:45:15.660 And it is, that's a noble thing that you're saying, but it's just not true because there's

00:45:20.340 an hour I promise in your day that you're throwing away that isn't devoted to serving

00:45:26.040 your family that isn't devoted to helping you better your own life in some way.

00:45:31.120 So if you're going to stare at yourself in the mirror and try to convince yourself that

00:45:36.760 you can't go to the gym because you love your family and you want to spend more time with

00:45:40.920 them, then the rest of your schedule better be locked in tight. 0.96

00:45:46.500 Otherwise you're just a liar. 0.97

00:45:48.320 And I'm not pointing fingers. 0.87

00:45:49.760 I've used noble obstacles as excuses before, but that's all they are.

00:45:53.540 They're just, they're lies, right?

00:45:56.960 Yeah, they are.

00:45:58.900 And I think if you, I had a podcast guest who's like, you know, he's one of those, uh, he,

00:46:04.980 I can't remember who he was, but he's, he's one of the screen experts, right?

00:46:09.160 The things that the screens do to our brains and all that.

00:46:11.440 And he's like, and one of the things he said on the podcast was, uh, he was like, you know,

00:46:17.100 people say they don't have time, you know, to do this, to work out, to do this or whatever.

00:46:21.620 He's like, just look at the screen time on your phone.

00:46:25.780 Like, and like, I mean, my screen time on average, this is horrible to admit, but I mean, obviously

00:46:31.880 my entire business and everything I do is through a device, but I, I average five hours a day

00:46:39.100 on my phone, five hours.

00:46:40.980 And I guarantee you like all five hours is not the productive work, right?

00:46:45.220 No, no, that's, it's crazy.

00:46:49.500 That really is.

00:46:51.280 There's also the guilt and shame.

00:46:53.780 I think that just bogs a man down when he's not doing what he knows he should be doing.

00:46:58.920 There's this integrity gap.

00:47:00.500 Like let's say, and I've been here with whether it's drinking or not working out and not putting

00:47:05.600 in the work when I'm not doing it.

00:47:07.020 Not only do I not physically feel better, there's just extra baggage.

00:47:09.900 Like I walk around and I'm like, oh man, I should have went to the gym today.

00:47:13.800 Oh man, I can do better than this.

00:47:15.580 And I start having all these negative thoughts and this self-doubt and it's accurate, but 1.00

00:47:20.680 I don't want to carry that around.

00:47:22.060 I want to be free from guilt and shame because I'm doing exactly what I said I was going to

00:47:26.220 do.

00:47:27.040 Yeah.

00:47:27.740 Yeah.

00:47:28.280 And I think that that you mentioned in there integrity, you know, I think when we're,

00:47:33.060 when we're not living, you know, through that integrity, right.

00:47:37.380 It's like our body and mind knows, right.

00:47:39.920 And, and, you know, it's like, so for instance, like I'm not a, I'm not a big drinker, but I'll

00:47:45.580 have a couple of drinks with my wife when we go out on a date or if I'm with friends, I'll

00:47:49.140 have a couple of drinks, but there's always something in me.

00:47:52.080 And when I say a couple, I'm, I'm, I literally mean like, like two or three, you know, on,

00:47:56.380 on a night that I'm going like, quote unquote, all out it's four, right.

00:47:59.560 Which that's a lot for me, but there's, I don't know what it is, Ryan, but like, maybe

00:48:04.700 it was because I was raised in an alcoholic family.

00:48:07.420 Maybe it's because like, I know like deep down, like nothing's good is going to come

00:48:11.340 out of this.

00:48:12.160 But every time like I drink, like I will, it just doesn't sit well with me, like for some

00:48:19.280 reason.

00:48:19.560 And I, and I, but I won't say it out loud.

00:48:22.080 Um, I'll, I'll keep it to myself, but I'll also, I also feel it.

00:48:26.380 Like I know it, I'm aware of it.

00:48:28.400 Like, and it does, you know, impact like my integrity and like, it impacts, like I sit

00:48:36.300 there and I'll, I'll be, I'll be having a drink and I'll be sitting there, you know,

00:48:39.940 and I, I'm like, I just had a conversation with my son about how he shouldn't really drink

00:48:43.620 at parties.

00:48:44.060 And I'm sitting here drinking and I'm like, I've said, and it just messes with me.

00:48:47.760 You know what I mean?

00:48:49.040 Yeah.

00:48:50.140 Yeah.

00:48:50.680 That is, that's that mental and emotional baggage that we don't talk about a whole lot.

00:48:55.160 But, you know, I, there's another thing I wanted to ask you and, and I'm not trying

00:48:59.440 to like say anything positive about myself here, but I think it's important.

00:49:03.280 I bring it up.

00:49:03.920 You know, I noticed something in you that was off.

00:49:08.480 Like you just did not see like the same guy I knew and I messaged you about it and I almost

00:49:16.040 didn't.

00:49:16.460 I was like, nah, he's fine.

00:49:17.800 Like he's a big boy.

00:49:18.700 Like he'll handle it.

00:49:19.500 If he wants to talk about it, he can.

00:49:20.820 And I almost just brushed it off.

00:49:22.160 And then I thought to myself, no, you know what? 0.99

00:49:24.300 Damn it. 0.98

00:49:24.560 Like, I wish I would have had somebody that reached out when I was at my lowest time, 0.99

00:49:29.360 you know, two and a half, three years ago, I don't put it on anybody else.

00:49:33.100 I'm certainly not doing that.

00:49:34.480 But what I am suggesting is that if you see somebody who you care about, who you think

00:49:40.320 they're struggling, you have a moral obligation to say something in love.

00:49:45.260 Hey, I care about you, but something's going on.

00:49:47.800 And what can I do to help?

00:49:49.080 I don't think enough guys are doing that.

00:49:50.460 Uh, maybe it's ego.

00:49:52.080 Maybe it's not wanting to pry or get nosy or make a relationship uncomfortable or awkward, 0.98

00:49:56.080 but damn, if you're a person's friend, then do, do what a good friend would do. 0.97

00:50:00.320 And I, and I got to thank you for that. 0.99

00:50:02.740 Um, cause I, I, I, I was on, I, you know, I, I remember the call and that, that day was,

00:50:10.180 was bad.

00:50:11.260 Like I just had a really, really, I just, I think the, the day was, is like, I was insanely

00:50:17.320 overwhelmed.

00:50:18.120 Like there were so many things coming, coming at me that day and, and in that season as

00:50:23.740 well, you know, like have a book coming out and, you know, you're on deadlines and you

00:50:28.820 got this going on, that going on, this person needs this.

00:50:31.140 And, you know, my family's giving me this feedback over here. 0.99

00:50:33.620 And like, it was just like, I felt like I was just getting my ass kicked, you know? 0.94

00:50:36.580 And, and yeah, I was on that call and I remember like trying to hide it, which is, you know, 0.94

00:50:42.920 it's, that's, that doesn't help anybody.

00:50:44.460 I was, I was trying to hide it and we got off that call and it was like 10 minutes later,

00:50:50.020 I got that message from you and you were, it was exactly what you just said.

00:50:54.220 And I think I chimed back in and I was like, thanks for checking in that I'm not like, I'm

00:50:59.300 not great.

00:50:59.840 Like, and I think we kind of went on to talk more about it on the next call, but, um, but

00:51:06.100 it was that check-in that I really needed.

00:51:08.240 And I think that I agree with you and use the term moral obligation.

00:51:14.420 And I think it's, it's good to point out like what goes through the mind of a guy before

00:51:19.940 he asks a question like that.

00:51:21.420 Well, I don't want to, I don't want to bother him like, or, or, you know, I don't want to

00:51:25.860 bring anything to his attention and make him feel worse.

00:51:28.320 Like that could be there too.

00:51:30.380 I don't want to be nosy.

00:51:32.160 Uh, that could be there.

00:51:33.300 But at the same time, like you could have a guy that, you know, really, really well.

00:51:38.400 And if you're sensing he's going through like a really dark place, then lean into that intuition,

00:51:44.360 right.

00:51:45.040 And, and ask, right.

00:51:46.460 You have no idea.

00:51:47.360 Sometimes just asking, just checking in with somebody is so effective.

00:51:52.500 You don't have to solve a problem.

00:51:54.060 You don't even, the person doesn't even necessarily have to open up and share what's going

00:51:58.080 on.

00:51:58.900 But just the fact that somebody else cared, right.

00:52:01.840 Is sometimes that's all it's needed.

00:52:03.820 And I know for me, like when I got that text, I was, it was like, it was almost like oxygen,

00:52:07.740 you know, it was just like, man, like that, that was awesome for me because like, um, you

00:52:13.520 know, but there was also some shame there too. 0.89

00:52:15.600 Like, I was just like, shit, man, I didn't want him to see me like, you know, struggling 0.98

00:52:20.080 on that call. 0.99

00:52:20.740 Like, I didn't want that to be obvious.

00:52:22.060 And it was, but that, I think again, that's like our ego, right.

00:52:25.560 You got to kind of put that ego to death and, and give gratitude to the person who checked

00:52:30.300 in on you.

00:52:30.840 Right.

00:52:31.140 Cause it was, it really, really helped.

00:52:33.140 And, uh, it really helped me out.

00:52:35.000 Well, and also, I mean, just, just to share my experience of that, like, I didn't think

00:52:40.360 less of you.

00:52:41.640 I, I, I wasn't judging you.

00:52:43.620 I wasn't thinking less of you.

00:52:44.900 I didn't think you were being weak.

00:52:46.120 I was like, what's going on with Larry?

00:52:48.380 Like it was just care.

00:52:49.560 And so I think it's important.

00:52:50.540 We know that because that, like you said, the ego might actually keep you from being honest

00:52:55.620 with somebody who has no judgment towards you.

00:52:57.780 They act, they genuinely just care and want you to be okay, but you got to let that wall

00:53:03.380 down.

00:53:03.800 If, if, especially if somebody, you know, is soliciting it, you've got to let that wall

00:53:08.000 down.

00:53:08.240 It's going to serve you really, really well.

00:53:10.360 Do you find the same thing to be true with kids?

00:53:12.420 Cause in the book you talk about forging these, um, unbreakable bonds with, with your

00:53:17.780 children.

00:53:18.500 And is, is this how you forge those bonds?

00:53:21.260 I mean, obviously it's experiences and being there and supportive, but is it helping them navigate

00:53:26.640 these challenging times too?

00:53:28.320 Or what does it look like to forge these bonds that just can't be broken with your kids?

00:53:32.460 So I think that's a great question.

00:53:34.220 You know, in that chapter, you know, what I really talk about is just, you know, how I

00:53:38.640 kind of, I face planted this for a long time, because like, I think if you're the dad, we

00:53:43.620 view ourselves as like the guide, right?

00:53:46.000 The almost, almost the expert, right?

00:53:48.140 Of life.

00:53:48.700 Like I'm, I'm, I'm 48 years old.

00:53:51.140 You're 18.

00:53:51.820 I know much more.

00:53:52.820 I can tell where this is going and I'm going to tell you how to fix it and all that other

00:53:55.860 stuff.

00:53:56.640 And I think there's a time and a place for that.

00:53:59.260 Like I do.

00:53:59.940 Cause there, there's a time and a place where your kids are like, dad, like give me some

00:54:03.760 advice or tell me what to do.

00:54:05.440 Right.

00:54:05.780 Or give me options.

00:54:07.320 But what I've realized is if you really want to create an unbreakable bond with your kids,

00:54:12.300 whether it's your daughter or your son, you gotta be a really damn good listener, like

00:54:16.620 a really good listener.

00:54:18.000 And I'm not talking about listening for words, you know, just only, but like when my kids

00:54:22.760 like, um, open up to me, like, so for, I'll give you an example.

00:54:27.180 My, uh, my oldest son right now is at wrestling camp this entire week and he's got this friend,

00:54:33.520 it's, and he's got a group of friends, but he's got this one friend who treats him like 1.00

00:54:38.960 shit. 0.99

00:54:39.300 Like just tries to, I don't know what he is. 1.00

00:54:42.700 Like, and this friend of his, he's like, he's like a little guy.

00:54:46.580 He's like five foot five and he's got to be the loudest guy in the room.

00:54:49.980 He's got to be the funniest guy in the room. 0.92

00:54:51.420 He's got to be the most obnoxious guy in the room. 0.51

00:54:53.160 And he's quite frankly, he's annoying. 1.00

00:54:56.640 And he has this habit of treating Ethan like shit. 0.99

00:55:02.300 And he, for some reason, like it's the only friend that Ethan will take it. 1.00

00:55:08.700 And I'll tell you, man, like it takes everything in me to be like, dude, you need to cut this

00:55:13.860 guy out of your life, man. 0.98

00:55:14.940 Like this kid is toxic. 0.98

00:55:16.320 Like he's the weight, he's very disrespectful. 0.95

00:55:19.300 He's not a friend.

00:55:19.960 Right.

00:55:20.280 But instead, like, so for instance, this morning he texts me and he's rooming with this kid

00:55:26.080 at wrestling camp. 0.99

00:55:26.740 And he's like, dad, he's like, he's being such an, such a jackass. 0.98

00:55:31.340 And I'm like, and all I did was I said, oh yeah, tell me more. 0.99

00:55:34.960 Right.

00:55:35.560 And, but there's a part of me right as a dad would be like, dude, I've been telling you

00:55:39.400 to get rid of this guy.

00:55:40.180 Right.

00:55:40.600 But I'm like, no, tell me what's going on.

00:55:42.120 Because here's the thing.

00:55:44.300 Forming an unbreakable bond is like, I think, you know, getting, you're like, you're, you're

00:55:50.060 this person that your kids are going to come talk to.

00:55:53.300 Right.

00:55:53.860 They are going to come and talk to you with you.

00:55:56.460 Right.

00:55:56.900 Not necessarily.

00:55:57.640 They're going to have a sit down and listen with me, but they want to talk to me.

00:56:01.840 So I just said, I said, tell me what's going on.

00:56:04.340 And he's like, he's doing this.

00:56:05.680 He's saying this, he's doing this.

00:56:07.100 And instead of advising him, I'm like, I just simply started asking more questions.

00:56:11.460 I was like, do any of your other friends treat you like this?

00:56:14.880 And he's like, no, they don't.

00:56:16.300 And I was like, so if none of your other friends treat you like this, then what is this relationship

00:56:21.720 to you then?

00:56:23.360 And he's like, I don't think it's a friendship.

00:56:25.400 And he's basically articulating everything that I would tell him, but I'm doing it through

00:56:29.600 questions.

00:56:30.060 And he's the one telling me.

00:56:31.780 And I think the more we can have our kids talk and we're like, we are this guide by just

00:56:38.120 asking really deep, generative, you know, curious questions that the more that they can

00:56:43.300 talk to us, the more that they're going to figure it out versus me telling him what I

00:56:48.640 think he should do, because that's, I don't think that's going to be nearly as effective.

00:56:53.180 And it's also not going to be nearly as connecting, right?

00:56:56.060 And the funny, here's the funny thing too.

00:56:57.620 I get this all the time from the kids.

00:56:59.480 I'll sit there and I will do like 10% of the talking.

00:57:02.440 And usually when I'm talking, I'm either reflecting back what I'm hearing, validating where they're

00:57:08.080 at, or I'm asking them more questions.

00:57:09.760 And I can't even tell you how many times that we've gotten through a conversation like this

00:57:13.980 and they're like, man, dad, thank you so much.

00:57:15.840 And I'm like, I didn't really do anything.

00:57:19.320 Like all I did was ask you some questions and listen, you, you were the one who actually

00:57:23.460 figured this out.

00:57:24.460 Like you just, we just guided you there a little bit.

00:57:27.580 Right.

00:57:28.240 And so I think that being very curious, I think really, really deepens the connection, asking

00:57:34.840 questions to get your kids to articulate their own thoughts and their viewpoints and their

00:57:39.920 perception of what's going on, I think is incredibly connecting because like, I don't know about

00:57:44.920 you, but like, I would really, really pick and choose what I would say to my mom or whoever,

00:57:50.880 whatever guy was in her life and my life at the time, because I'm like, if I go to them,

00:57:56.660 I'm going to get just bombarded with this.

00:58:00.680 Right.

00:58:00.800 And I would avoid it.

00:58:01.940 And I think a lot of guys, you know, I think a lot of adults, you know, had that experience

00:58:06.520 growing up with their kids, with their, with their parents.

00:58:09.380 And we, a lot of us still do that with our own kids, but that's not the most connecting

00:58:14.560 thing to do for, I would say the long haul.

00:58:17.400 Yeah.

00:58:17.540 I mean, it just, as, as a kid, you know, having your mom or your dad lecture you and come

00:58:22.860 at you like that is really off putting, you know, it's like, oh great.

00:58:27.160 You know, dad's going to give me another lecture and it's just not going to help you

00:58:31.600 have that, that better relationship at all.

00:58:34.600 If anything, it's going to push it in the opposite direction.

00:58:37.040 I think there's another element here.

00:58:38.900 Like take this situation for instance, right.

00:58:42.400 Where something is happening in your kid's life that maybe they feel a little bit of shame

00:58:49.240 around, right.

00:58:50.140 Or a little bit of like, it's almost like, I think a lot of our kids view, you know, dad

00:58:56.000 is like, I want to tell dad the good stuff that I'm proud of.

00:58:59.340 And, but I don't want to come across as like weak or less than if, if something bad is happening.

00:59:05.560 And I, but I think, cause like if, if I were to, I wouldn't say blast him, right.

00:59:11.860 But if I were to be like, dude, man, like get this guy out of your life, man.

00:59:15.800 Come on.

00:59:16.280 Like, right. 0.99

00:59:16.740 Like I think for him, that would be like, he's getting shit from his friend, but now 1.00

00:59:21.380 he's getting crap from me. 0.99

00:59:22.660 So like, he just sort of feels like, well, God, this really sucks. 0.99

00:59:25.480 You know, another quick example of this is my 10 year old right now, he is at sports

00:59:30.640 camp this entire week and he's got this kid that is bullying him.

00:59:36.900 And, you know, he got in my car, I picked him up and I could just tell it was a, it was

00:59:41.840 an off day for him.

00:59:42.960 And I go, Hey man, you doing okay.

00:59:44.880 He's like, and he just was like, yeah.

00:59:48.220 And I'm like, I was like, Hey dude, I put my arm around him and I'm like, you sure?

00:59:53.640 I was like, it just feels like something might've happened today.

00:59:57.420 And he's like, he's like, there's this kid and he's bigger than me.

01:00:02.720 He's older than me and he's bullying me.

01:00:05.360 I was like, well, tell me more.

01:00:06.780 What's going on?

01:00:07.440 And he's like, he's pushing me down all the time.

01:00:10.860 He's called, he calls me weird.

01:00:12.820 You know, he, he's constantly hitting me.

01:00:15.120 Like, I just, I don't know what to do.

01:00:18.240 And you know, there's all this advice in me, right?

01:00:21.640 Especially from a guy who was bullied a ton growing up.

01:00:24.760 And instead I just validated where he's feeling.

01:00:27.760 I was like, Oh dude, I was like, it is no fun to be bullied.

01:00:31.500 I was like, I was bullied growing up.

01:00:33.880 And I was like, and that is a freaking hard day, man.

01:00:36.520 Like when you, you just, you just want to get out of the situation.

01:00:39.060 You don't know what to do.

01:00:39.880 So I was like, you know, I know you and I have gone back and forth on, you know, how

01:00:45.420 to defend yourself and that kind of thing.

01:00:46.940 But you know, what do you think we should do about this?

01:00:50.660 And I just engaged him in it.

01:00:52.760 And he's just like, can you help me with some words?

01:00:56.460 Like this was how he told me.

01:00:58.000 He's like, can you help me with some words?

01:00:59.440 And I'm like, help you with some words.

01:01:00.460 He's like, help me with some words of like how to talk to him, like to just get him away

01:01:06.320 from me.

01:01:06.800 Like he's like, and I also like, can you help me with like self-defense again?

01:01:12.060 Cause I tell him all the time.

01:01:13.420 I was like, you know, I did, I did, um, 12 years of martial arts.

01:01:17.480 I was like, I can't teach you how to fix a car, but I can teach you how to defend yourself.

01:01:21.460 And so we get, we went out and like, we went out in the garage and, you know, we went through

01:01:25.260 like, you know, verbal warfare, right.

01:01:28.680 With a bully, like what to do, what to say, how to basically warn them.

01:01:32.380 And then like, we, we, we hit the pads like, and, and I, I, I realized,

01:01:36.800 reminded him like how to throw a punch and like how to, where to kick, you know, the

01:01:41.400 spots to hit and all this other thing.

01:01:43.000 I was like, you know, listen, like if this kid continues to put his hands on you, you

01:01:47.540 have the right to defend yourself.

01:01:49.580 Like, he's like, well, I'll get in trouble there.

01:01:51.220 I was like, not with me.

01:01:52.540 You won't.

01:01:52.900 And if you get in trouble there, we will go have a conversation with, with the coaches

01:01:57.620 there.

01:01:57.940 I was like, but you have every right to defend yourself.

01:02:01.080 Like, don't, don't take this.

01:02:02.420 Right.

01:02:03.400 And, um, but it started, that conversation started off with me asking him a lot of questions,

01:02:07.900 bringing him more into that conversation, making him feel comfortable.

01:02:10.720 Cause like, man, I, when I was bullied and I'll never forget like this window of time

01:02:16.240 where my mom was with this guy, he, he was like a really like toxic dude.

01:02:20.720 And I remember like coming home and being like, dude, I was like, I'm getting bullied.

01:02:26.560 I'm getting pushed around. 0.95

01:02:27.440 And like his response to me, he goes, he goes, well, don't be such a puss. 0.95

01:02:32.880 And I was just like, all right, that that's not helpful. 0.93

01:02:36.800 Yeah.

01:02:37.240 You know what I mean?

01:02:37.760 Like, so now you're going to believe me.

01:02:39.340 You know what I mean?

01:02:40.560 Yeah.

01:02:40.920 I was just like, okay, great.

01:02:42.000 I feel so much better.

01:02:43.760 Oh, that's it.

01:02:44.700 Oh, I didn't think about that.

01:02:47.860 Yeah.

01:02:48.400 Thanks.

01:02:48.840 Thanks for that.

01:02:53.240 Well, Larry, I love what you're doing, man.

01:02:55.360 Like to be as mindful as you are, you know, I, I obviously, you know, you and I are well

01:03:00.460 aware of our own shortcomings and where we can do better, but you've always been somebody

01:03:04.140 who's super aware, very mindful, always trying to improve yourself as a father.

01:03:08.440 I've, I've gained so much from our friendship and from what you share.

01:03:11.700 And it's been powerful to me.

01:03:13.760 Why don't you tell the guys where to learn more about what you're up to?

01:03:17.280 Obviously pick up a copy of the book and about anything else that you have might have

01:03:21.240 going on.

01:03:22.260 Yeah, for sure.

01:03:23.100 So I think this is a good time.

01:03:24.320 And thank you, by the way, as much as you say, you learn from me, I learned just as

01:03:27.740 much from you.

01:03:28.500 So, um, you've been just so helpful and supportive in my, in my life and, and especially during

01:03:33.700 trials and tribulations, but yeah, I just wrote a book.

01:03:36.720 It just was published about a month ago.

01:03:38.580 It's called spirit of fatherhood.

01:03:39.740 Um, it's basically everything that we have learned, um, you know, uh, over the past decade

01:03:47.260 about, you know, relationships and mindset and all this, it does, and it does have a faith

01:03:51.420 based element to it.

01:03:53.000 Um, so I do want to tell guys about that as well.

01:03:55.120 Uh, as far as things that we're up to, man, one thing I'm super excited about is, uh, this

01:04:00.140 event that me, you, Matt and Connor are going to be hosting in 2020, you know, first week

01:04:05.600 of 2025 in May.

01:04:07.500 Um, I think that's going to be just, I can't wait for that event.

01:04:11.300 Um, cause I think we've got the perfect spot picked out and, and yeah, and good dates.

01:04:17.180 And I think we're going to just get, um, really good guys from all four communities to come

01:04:21.160 together.

01:04:22.220 Yeah, man.

01:04:22.900 I'm excited about that.

01:04:24.260 Well, Larry, I appreciate you.

01:04:25.760 I'm excited about what's going well for you and, um, obviously here to support in any way.

01:04:30.080 So we'll make sure we sync everything up brother.

01:04:32.460 Appreciate it.

01:04:32.820 Thanks for joining me today.

01:04:34.220 You bet, man.

01:04:34.900 Thank you for having me.

01:04:37.460 Men, Larry Hagner.

01:04:38.800 I told you it was going to be a good one.

01:04:40.160 When I, when, when Larry and I get together and we talk quite a bit, um, as we alluded

01:04:44.060 to in this conversation, uh, it's powerful.

01:04:47.220 I always walk away with great information.

01:04:49.580 I know since you're listening to this podcast and you've made it to the end that you are

01:04:53.180 walking away with great information as well.

01:04:55.420 So please, uh, check out Larry's new book, the spirit of fatherhood, wherever you get

01:05:00.340 your books and connect with him on the gram or Facebook or YouTube or wherever.

01:05:04.560 Uh, make sure you take a screenshot, share this on social media profiles, and then maybe

01:05:09.320 even a text to just hit that little share button, send it to your brother, your cousin, your

01:05:13.080 uncle, your dad, your coworker, another man who might need to hear this message about fatherhood.

01:05:18.240 All right, guys, those are your marching orders.

01:05:20.280 We will be back tomorrow for our ask me anything until then go out there, take action and become

01:05:26.080 the man you are meant to be.

01:05:30.860 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:05:33.700 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:05:37.840 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - July 02, 2024

LARRY HAGNER ｜ Spirit of Fatherhood

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