Order of Man - Leading Through Loss, When to Leave Employment, and Fixing Yourself First

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:06.000 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.440 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.

00:00:15.460 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.

00:00:19.680 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:25.100 Mr. Kip Sorensen, what's up, brother? Good to see you, man.

00:00:27.380 Good to see you. Everything going good on the home front for you?

00:00:32.180 Yeah. I love the holidays. I love this time of season. I just enjoy it.

00:00:39.780 It's a good time of year.

00:00:41.720 Yeah. And it's busy for us. A lot of companies, if they have outstanding budgets and stuff, they want to burn.

00:00:47.440 You know what I mean? So there's kind of a spike in work and a little bit of chaos, but balance it out. It all works.

00:00:53.540 It's slower for me, which I kind of like. It's like nobody wants to interview. Nobody's really doing anything.

00:00:59.960 And so they kind of shut down for the last month of the year. And I'm like, I used to be all stressed out about it.

00:01:05.140 Now I'm like, that's awesome. I love that.

00:01:07.180 So we got some little, little things up coming up. Like, obviously we've got our trip that you and I'll be on next week.

00:01:12.660 Uh, and then we've got, we're doing, we're doing the bank, the football banquets here at our place.

00:01:21.360 And we were supposed to do one tonight and then one another night. But, but I think Trish got mixed up a little bit and she put them on the same day.

00:01:30.560 And so we're like different times. No, the same time, the same day.

00:01:36.940 So that's supposed to be this afternoon. But I think, I think our oldest son is doing it somewhere else.

00:01:42.300 And our youngest son, and I told him they were going to do it like a month ago, but I told him, I said, you can do it in on December 2nd, you know, but it's going to be cold.

00:01:51.640 Like our barn isn't heated. And so I turned the water back onto the bathrooms in the barn and everything's frozen.

00:01:57.860 And I put heaters in there trying to warm it up. And we have space heaters in the barn trying to warm it up.

00:02:02.620 So hopefully it'll be warm enough, but I'm going to my, my oldest son's, which is indoors.

00:02:07.920 And Trish is staying here with my second son. So they'll be cold. I'll be warm. We're good to go.

00:02:13.780 Yeah. Way to look out for the family.

00:02:17.120 I told her I'd stay here, but she's like, no, I'll stay here. Cause she's cooking like six roasts, like these huge, big roasts in there.

00:02:23.960 They look amazing. So it's a trade-off, you know, I'm going to be warm,

00:02:27.400 but I'm probably not going to have as good a food. She's going to have great food. It's just

00:02:30.740 going to be a little colder. So it's like, which one do you go with?

00:02:33.840 Yeah, that's funny.

00:02:35.420 Well, cool, man. Well, let's get into some questions. Um, these are questions I think from,

00:02:39.180 uh, I believe they're leftover questions from iron or from Facebook from last week, correct?

00:02:44.980 Yes, sir.

00:02:45.440 Right. Let's get into it, man. Let's crank them out.

00:02:47.720 Yeah. And to join us there on Facebook, that's facebook.com slash group slash order of man.

00:02:52.000 All right. Eric. Um, well, actually no, not Eric, wrong guy, Tim Fredzma. I've identified

00:02:57.580 a group of people that I want to be around on both personal and professional levels,

00:03:02.160 but I've only had tangible contact with them. Actually integration would require location

00:03:08.500 and professional changes in order to join. What are your suggestions for step first steps to initiate

00:03:14.680 and continue building relationships in order to move forward with that group while supporting my family?

00:03:20.200 There's a lot of big words in there. Yeah. Um, I, what, what was he saying about initiate and like

00:03:28.140 integrate? And I think you're, let me just say it this way. I think you're being too robotic about it.

00:03:35.120 Yeah. Well, he's almost like, I'm not even in a professional space to connect with these guys.

00:03:39.840 And I'm like, well, I don't know if that's required per se. Right. But I, why I don't see,

00:03:44.700 it's just like, this is a, this is a classic case of just overthinking it. Yeah. You're using these big

00:03:53.220 words and you know, not that I'm opposed to using a big word here and there, but you're like so

00:03:59.360 robotic about it that it just really sounds disingenuous to me actually. And I think the

00:04:07.640 first step would be to just let that go and, and consider that maybe this can happen a little bit

00:04:14.080 more organically. And I'm not saying to play passive at all. Yeah. But without knowing the

00:04:19.540 context of the guys that you want to connect with, just either a go where they are. So if they're at

00:04:25.900 professional meetings, uh, if they're at certain events, then go to those events and connect with

00:04:32.300 those people in a, in a, in approachable humanistic way. And if they're not, then either create your

00:04:40.280 own event or potentially invite these guys to your event or to your environment. And I've done this

00:04:46.440 in a lot of different ways. You know, if I've identified somebody who I like, or I get along

00:04:50.940 with, or I'd like to know more, it sounds weird because we only tend to look at it in the context of

00:04:57.000 romantic interests. And so, you know, you'll hear guys say, Hey, you wouldn't come hang out.

00:05:03.460 Yeah. Right. And it's like, you don't need to say that. I get why you think you need to say that,

00:05:07.980 but we've sexualized every aspect of life that you can't just say, Hey man, like I'm going to have

00:05:15.040 some guys over for fight night next week. You want to come without you having to say no homo or,

00:05:20.360 or put in your qualifier of choice. You don't need to say that just, or go, go golfing.

00:05:27.000 You know, Hey, I'm going golfing. I got three guys. I got room for one other person. You want

00:05:31.860 to come like that? I don't, I just, we tend to just overthink it, overcomplicate it.

00:05:38.600 Or another good way is Kip, if I knew you and either a professional or personal semi-personal

00:05:44.400 setting, I mean, I would know that you're married. I'd know you'd have kids. I'm interested in getting

00:05:48.980 to know who you are, maybe a little bit more. And I would just create a date. I'd say, Hey,

00:05:53.860 Friday night, Kip, my wife and I are thinking about going out. Would you and your wife be

00:05:57.520 interested in joining us? Like, we're going to meet it, you know, for dinner at Chili's at seven,

00:06:02.360 like, and, and we'll, you know, get a, get a table for four. I don't think that's that hard. I just

00:06:08.740 think you're over overthinking it. And there's just more organic, natural ways to approach it

00:06:13.800 that I think will lead to more success. How would you address that differently? If it's,

00:06:18.500 if, if it's more of a professional relationship, you're wanting to, to form.

00:06:23.060 I would actually do the same thing. But what I would say is, so if you and I Kip run more of a

00:06:27.820 professional, as opposed to a personal setting, uh, I would say to you, Hey Kip, uh, every week I go

00:06:34.140 meet on Wednesday with, uh, 20 other business professionals. And I know you're an entrepreneur

00:06:40.600 and I'm sure you have some great insight to share and people would be interested in hearing what it is

00:06:45.680 you do. And I know you'd be interested in hearing what they do. Uh, I've got, I've got an extra

00:06:49.460 ticket. You want to come to this conference? Would you like, would you be interested in attending this

00:06:53.700 thing? Yeah. I w I would say the same thing, but I would just cater what event I was going to based

00:07:00.520 on the interest or based on the angle that I wanted to take with who I'm trying to talk shop,

00:07:06.000 run some ideas by a value value, your opinion, if you wouldn't mind. Yeah. Or another,

00:07:11.280 another way is to identify something that you would need a problem that you have that you would

00:07:18.520 need solving and then find another person in your circle who could potentially solve that problem for

00:07:25.440 you. And then just invite you three to go to lunch, not with the anticipation of, Hey, I'm going to

00:07:32.640 solve all your problems. I'm going to get this guy to sell or whatever, but just, Hey, look, Kip,

00:07:37.180 I know you got this X, Y, and Z. I'm not going to blindside you. That's, that's, that's a no,

00:07:40.800 no. Hey Kip, I've got this X, Y, and Z problem that I know you're aware of and that you're concerned

00:07:45.980 with. Well, I've got this guy over here and he actually has gone through that. He went through

00:07:49.820 that last year and he's got some really good solutions that he went through. I mean, I don't

00:07:53.240 think it makes sense to just go grab some lunch together and just hash some of these things out.

00:07:56.980 Would you be interested? Totally. What an easy way to do that. And then to create a win-win

00:08:01.960 environment for you in this, in this case, and the guy I'm going to introduce you to.

00:08:05.920 Yeah. Tim, part of his question was, you know, a feeling of having to relocate geographically into

00:08:12.740 the mix. Does that change things up for you from that perspective? Any advice? I mean, I'm not going

00:08:18.200 to, I'm not going to, obviously you're not going to grab lunch, but I mean, you want to go, well,

00:08:23.100 it's just not, Oh, I can't form a relationship with Pete cause he's in Maine. So, you know,

00:08:28.760 that one's actually a little different because I was really, really drawn to what Pete was doing

00:08:34.340 himself and what he was doing with origin. And I'm not going to lie and, and, and deny that what

00:08:40.420 he was doing wasn't a factor of why we considered moving here. But you were establishing a relationship

00:08:45.360 with Pete before you moved. It's not like you moved here and then went knocking on his door and said,

00:08:49.920 Hey, you know, let's go to lunch, you know? Right. And we, we, we, we built that relationship

00:08:57.680 on a more formal business type setting. Yeah. Because he, they were sponsoring the podcast.

00:09:05.800 And then he had said, Hey man, like we sponsor the podcast. I know you were training a couple of

00:09:10.440 times. You ought to come out here to Maine and do this, this immersion camp. And I said, cool. Yeah.

00:09:15.540 Sounds good. That's another lesson actually, is that when people invite you, you should probably say,

00:09:20.460 yes, it's very easy to say no, because we're busy and we're consumed. We have all sorts of things and

00:09:25.180 you should exercise some discernment regarding what you say yes and no to, but if there's

00:09:30.000 opportunities, then you better jump at that. And you would actually be really, maybe you wouldn't

00:09:33.840 be surprised, but there are a lot of men out there who don't say yes to opportunities. And then they

00:09:39.620 have the audacity to complain about why other guys have all the luck. Well, you got to put yourself in

00:09:46.040 those situations and then you got to say yes, when those opportunities present themselves. So yeah.

00:09:52.020 Yeah. And also if somebody's, you don't need to form a face-to-face connection with, I mean,

00:09:57.000 how many guys have I talked with that are friends of mine? In fact, I just had a good conversation

00:10:01.240 with Granger Smith. He was on a podcast several months ago. He's a country music artist. He's

00:10:06.220 very, very successful. And I just sent him a text and I said, Hey man, I've been thinking about you.

00:10:09.980 How's this one particular thing going? I can't disclose what it is, but this one particular thing

00:10:15.220 going. And he said, Oh yeah, it's going really good. Thanks for reaching out. Here's what I'm dealing

00:10:18.300 with. And how are you doing? And I said, well, I'm doing good here, but I'm struggling here.

00:10:21.820 He's like, Oh yeah, I've struggled with that. And here's three things I remembered that helped me.

00:10:26.240 And you know, like it took us a 10 minute text conversation. Cool. I'm more connected to him.

00:10:32.180 He's more connected to me. We didn't have to be face-to-face. And then when we get together

00:10:35.660 face-to-face, it's going to be that much better. So there isn't really a need, especially with the

00:10:39.860 technology and digital era in that we live, where you have to absolutely be face-to-face with somebody

00:10:45.040 in order to formulate a connection. You and I do it every single week. And we're literally across the

00:10:50.520 country from each other. Yeah. Yeah. And in fact, if I just went to California,

00:10:54.220 that's the only way I'd get any further. And of course we know that's never going to happen. So

00:10:58.440 this is the furthest one could be. They need you, Kip. They need you.

00:11:03.000 All right. Next question. Lucas Johnson, how do you deal with social media fame that you've acquired,

00:11:09.300 Mr. Mickler? Do you think that- I'm famous.

00:11:12.520 Do you think that it's bad? I'm famous. Do you think it's bad? And how do you unplug?

00:11:18.220 Hell no, it's not bad. It's awesome. It's great because it advances the mission.

00:11:23.440 Yeah. Social media gets shit on a lot. And I actually am the one doing it quite often.

00:11:28.120 There's a lot to be critical of when it comes to social media and our tech overlords,

00:11:33.220 but also it's a tool like any other tool. A carpenter who just slammed the shit out of his thumb

00:11:39.820 wouldn't say hammers are stupid. He'd say, oh, I use that. He'd be mad at himself for using it

00:11:47.180 incorrectly. And that is the same with social media. If you're not experiencing the results

00:11:53.060 that you want, or you'd look at it as a negative thing, or you hate it or despise it, then maybe

00:11:58.460 you're just using the tool incorrectly. So I don't think I'm social media famous by any means,

00:12:04.880 but maybe I might get recognized if I'm in the airport or something like that.

00:12:11.120 That's awesome. I love it. And I mean, from the sake of my own narcissism, it's pretty nice. I'm

00:12:18.880 like, yeah, that's right. People recognize me. My wife's like, what were you doing? I'm like,

00:12:22.080 talking to my fans. We think I was doing. So there's that side of it. But then the other side

00:12:28.440 of it is like, why wouldn't I want to be recognized? Why wouldn't I want to be acknowledged?

00:12:31.980 The fact that I can use social media and reach millions and millions of people,

00:12:36.120 literally millions of people to spread a mission that I think is important is awesome. There's no

00:12:41.520 other time in human history that any one person has been able to reach so many others. I love it.

00:12:47.840 I'm so grateful for it. And I'm going to use it to the best of its ability.

00:12:53.040 Yeah. And as long as you maintain focus of vision purpose, of why you're doing it and don't get into

00:13:01.220 the comparison trap. And, you know, like there's obviously, which I do, from times to time. Yeah.

00:13:05.700 But there's areas that we could easily fall into. But I think those same things, you could

00:13:10.200 replace the word social media and replace it with something else, right? It's like jujitsu is great

00:13:14.760 as long as you don't use it as a crutch to avoid your family and your responsibilities or

00:13:18.600 reading a book is, could even be negative. If you're not taking action and executing on

00:13:24.100 being with your family of, of higher priority items and social media is probably no different.

00:13:28.840 Or if you take jujitsu and you just beat the shit out of every person you walk by on the street,

00:13:33.540 like then I would say probably not the best use of jujitsu.

00:13:35.900 I thought that was okay. But hold on.

00:13:37.660 That's acceptable for you, but, but not for me. So, I mean, it's really how you use it. Look,

00:13:42.960 and I'll also say this though, because I don't, I'm not what you said, social media famous,

00:13:49.120 I think is the word you used. I don't really experience any negative. I've never had any negative

00:13:55.500 encounter offline that started online. So I'll have a lot of people, for example, who,

00:14:04.180 you know, maybe somebody recognizes me in the airport or at a restaurant and they might approach

00:14:09.960 me. Now, actually not a whole lot of people approach me relative to how many people I think

00:14:15.020 recognize me because you can always see when somebody recognizes you, but they won't approach

00:14:19.280 you. It's really awkward. Yeah.

00:14:20.900 I usually just give them a nod like, Hey, how you doing? And that might open it up. So by the way,

00:14:25.000 if you see me somewhere, like come say hello, I, that I, I want you to say hello.

00:14:29.900 He, he needs his egos.

00:14:31.960 I want you to do it in front of my wife. And if you could, while you're at it,

00:14:35.980 talk to me about how good I am. Talk to me about all the things that I've done to improve your life

00:14:42.460 and, uh, how you idle and worship the ground I walk on, that would be much appreciated.

00:14:48.560 Especially if it's in front of my wife, um, or business partners, my kids completely acceptable.

00:14:54.460 So hold on. So you're like, I just have to pull this out right here. So Mr. Is this going to be

00:15:00.580 backwards? Probably, huh? It looks, it looks right here. The way I'm looking at it. Okay. We'll see

00:15:05.740 that shows up on YouTube. A hundred K. It's a hundred thousand baby. Yeah. A hundred thousand

00:15:10.780 people. What was that reached just recently? Yeah. It was a couple of two, two or three days

00:15:15.700 ago. I think maybe last week sometime. That's pretty famous where I feel, where I feel good

00:15:21.180 about myself as I come over here to the following area and I'm, I'm number one person that Ryan

00:15:27.240 follows. You're my, you're my number one. Thank you. Now, you know, they only show that they're

00:15:32.140 at number one because that's you, right? Oh, what? No, no, no. You're my number one fan.

00:15:40.660 I'm your number one fan. What, uh, what I was going to say a minute ago is I've never had any

00:15:47.660 negative interaction offline that derived from online. Like anybody who's seen, who's followed

00:15:52.800 me and has come, said hello. It's all positive, but you know, they'll probably come a point in time

00:15:58.340 if I continue to do what I'm doing where, you know, somebody might make a comment or,

00:16:03.480 uh, you know, make a scene, attempt to make a scene or whatever. And so I might change my tune

00:16:09.340 at that time, but as of right now, I'm enjoying it. Yeah. Copy Kyle Shields, Ryan, how did you lead

00:16:17.320 your family through the loss of Sarge? Might only be, uh, might only be a pet, but I suppose this is

00:16:24.000 greater question about leading through grief. Yeah. I mean, let me say it this way. Sarge was

00:16:31.140 our dog. Um, I don't, I don't think dogs are humans. I don't treat them like humans. Uh, Sarge

00:16:38.200 was a member of our family, but he wasn't my child. Yeah. I wasn't his father. Like, and I think

00:16:44.980 there's a lot of people who think that. So for anybody who don't have kids. Yeah. Yeah. And so for

00:16:51.500 anybody and they do, they say, they're like, well, you don't know. Yeah, you're right. I don't,

00:16:54.920 I don't know, except for I have a dog and you don't have a child. So there is that. Yeah. So I

00:17:00.200 kind of do know. Um, and I'm not going to say what people grieve and what they should and shouldn't

00:17:05.460 you, we all do it differently. But I, I, what I'm trying to say is that if, if there's a man listening,

00:17:12.840 who's lost a child, not a dog, but a child or a parent, and I have lost a parent, my father,

00:17:20.460 uh, or a loved one of whoever that may be, that it's different than losing a dog. I just want to

00:17:27.300 throw that out there because I don't want to do anybody a disservice or put down or, or dismiss

00:17:33.200 what anybody who's actually experiencing a significantly greater loss than losing the

00:17:38.860 family dog. Now that said, it was hard, man. It sucked. Like three days before he died, him and

00:17:43.820 I, the dog and I were out playing in the field and we were wrestling. And one night he just, he was

00:17:50.380 walking around almost as if he was drunk and he was banging into things. I had a seizure almost or

00:17:55.980 no, no, no seizure. He was just like literally just walking around drunk. Like he was just

00:18:01.120 running into the wall with his hip. I'm like, what in the world's going on? So we put him to bed.

00:18:06.100 I woke up probably, it was, it was probably around midnight, one o'clock somewhere in there.

00:18:11.060 And I heard this noise in my oldest son's room. And so I went in there and our dog was kind of

00:18:16.860 hunkered in between the bed and the wall. And there was probably like a foot of space in that

00:18:23.340 little gap there. And so I'm, I'm like trying to grab Sarge and pull him. And it was evident that

00:18:27.640 his back legs weren't working. So that's weird. What's going on? So eventually I pulled him out of

00:18:33.180 there and I put him on the bed and just laid him there. Well, the next morning, not only were his

00:18:37.600 back legs not working, his, his front legs weren't working. And I, I just thought, I don't know. I,

00:18:44.260 I knew it was something with like neurological. And so I thought, well, maybe it's a tick and, or,

00:18:50.580 and he got a disease from a tick. Maybe it's like, I didn't really know, but it was something

00:18:55.040 affecting his brain and his motor skills. So we waited for about a day or two and it only got

00:19:02.460 worse. And, um, so we, we loaded him up in, in the suburban and took him to the vet. And I actually

00:19:12.880 said goodbye. Like, I'm like, they're going to put the dog down. Like, I'm just going to say bye

00:19:16.320 right now. Cause they're going to put the dog down. Well, my wife calls me and she's like, Hey, um,

00:19:20.800 you know, I talked to the vet. It, they did blood work. It's nothing. It's, it's not a tick. It's

00:19:26.820 not a disease. It's, it's nothing like that. She thinks it's neurological. And I had to have a real

00:19:32.100 conversation with her. And I said, look, hon, I mean, we can take them to the hospital, but if

00:19:36.260 they're going to come back and they're going to say, you know, you're going to need to spend 10,

00:19:39.080 20, whatever thousand dollars on surgery. I think we need to come to the conclusion right now that

00:19:44.100 we're not doing that. Yeah. And she said, no, I know that's hard, but I agree with you. And so

00:19:48.860 they, they did the scans and whatnot, and it ended up being, uh, uh, an inoperable brain tumor

00:19:57.340 is what it was that was putting pressure on the dog's brain, causing him to lose motor function.

00:20:02.860 And it was inoperable, you know? So we didn't, fortunately we didn't have to make the decision

00:20:09.720 to put them down, but unfortunate that we did and we put them down and here, here's where I can start

00:20:16.860 telling you about the lessons of leading people through this. Like we didn't hide it from our

00:20:21.240 kids. We didn't hide it. We didn't sugar coat it or like make it fairy tale or whatever. Uh, my wife

00:20:30.820 actually said, you know, do you think she said this in front of the kids? And I was like, I don't know

00:20:36.460 how to answer this. She says, do you think we'll see Sarge again? And I was like, I know what she

00:20:40.700 was looking for. Like she was looking for me to say, oh yeah, we'll see him in heaven. That's what

00:20:45.500 she wanted me to say. And I said, I thought about it. My kids were there. I'm like, no,

00:20:51.560 I don't think that. And she, she looked at me. So yeah, maybe I'm going to get to why I said that.

00:20:58.800 Yeah. I'm just teasing. And, and so she's like, what? And I was like, I, I don't, I think we had

00:21:04.580 our time with Sarge. Um, I think we had a great time. I think we, we enjoyed each other's company,

00:21:09.880 but no, I don't, I don't think we'll see him in heaven. She's like, why could you? And I said,

00:21:16.340 well, dogs don't have souls, you know? And, and kids, I think it's, look, I'm not going to tell

00:21:21.820 you what to believe, but I, but this is what I believe. And here's why. And I didn't sugarcoat

00:21:27.500 any of it, which would have been very easy for me to say, yeah, yeah, we'll see him and he'll be

00:21:31.800 great. And we'll see him in heaven. Like, why would I lie? Like, I don't believe that. Why would I lie

00:21:36.640 about that? And so my oldest son, which is actually his dog was in the room. When we put the

00:21:45.100 dog down, my oldest son and I dug the hole for the, cause we didn't have them cremate it. We said,

00:21:52.080 no, we'll take the body. We took the body from the hospital. All of us were there. We put the dog's

00:21:57.240 body in the bed of, in the back of the suburban, we dug the hole, we put his body in there. We buried it.

00:22:04.980 So we sat around and we, we got chairs and we told stories about Sarge and that's what we did.

00:22:12.200 We fully embraced death, which sucks. And for like a week, and I'm still like, I don't like

00:22:19.500 talking about it because I still miss Sarge, but we, we dealt with it realistically, like in reality.

00:22:28.580 Yeah. And because of that, then we were able to have better conversations about death and

00:22:34.240 how it's part of life and why we need to remember the good things. And I think the same holds true

00:22:40.500 for another person, a loved one. Although again, different scales, I'm not going to sugarcoat things

00:22:49.920 because it would have been way easier for me to say, you know, for them to say, yeah, cremate the body.

00:22:54.160 We don't want to know anything about it. We don't want to hear about it. Um, yeah, we'll see the dog

00:22:58.840 in heaven, like way easier to say all of that stuff. Yeah. But that isn't the right way to handle

00:23:04.460 it in my perspective. So that's how we did it. And I think that's generally a pretty good way to go

00:23:11.520 about doing it because it brings closure and then you can all move on. And that's what you need. You

00:23:16.420 need to close it. It's a chapter, not avoid it. And you can revisit the chapter, right? Like,

00:23:22.220 like a book, you know, you read one chapter, you read it, you turn the page, the chapter's over,

00:23:26.340 but if you want to go back, you can go back and reread that chapter.

00:23:30.120 Yeah. But the chapter's over, like it's done. And I think knowing that it's done is a very

00:23:35.900 important part of grieving and moving on. Steven Maltese, I want the management position at my job.

00:23:44.400 I can do everything. I can do everything there is to be done. They tell me they want me to stay in

00:23:52.240 the current position because I'm too valuable to replace our turn over is high when it comes to

00:23:58.500 employees. But my question is when should that answer they give me no longer be acceptable?

00:24:04.800 So there's, there's one thing I would say right here. Have you hired your replacement hired and

00:24:10.220 trained your replacement? This is a very interesting thing about leadership. So a lot of guys don't like

00:24:17.800 to lead other people to replace them because they consider it like a damage to their ego. It's a

00:24:24.200 threat. So you're not going to hire a replacement. And this is why that's wrong. What you're running

00:24:30.900 across right now is the exact reason why it's so destructive to let your ego get in the way.

00:24:37.000 And I'm not saying this gentleman has it by the way. Yeah. But to let an ego get in the way to the

00:24:41.720 point of you not hiring a replacement, because I, I think they're probably telling the truth.

00:24:49.260 Maybe not totally, but I think what they're actually saying is it's more comfortable and

00:24:55.440 convenient right now for you to stay where you are. Because if we, if we promoted you,

00:24:59.980 then we'd have to hire somebody else. And then there would be the cost of that.

00:25:03.620 Yeah, totally. Yes. So it's, it's definitely more convenient to keep you where you are.

00:25:10.340 You need to make that just as convenient to promote. Hey guys, look, I know you said six

00:25:20.280 months ago, I was so important in this job. And what I've been doing is I've been training Bob and

00:25:25.560 Joe and Jill and Steve, and now they actually know everything that I know. And so this can be a

00:25:32.400 seamless process. Now there's a risk. There's a risk because now the risk is, well, what do we need

00:25:39.100 you for? Yeah. If Jill can do it or Joe can do it, or Steve can do it and they can do it for 20%

00:25:47.200 less than we're paying you. Why do we need you here? So there's another game. There's another part

00:25:52.460 of the game. The other part of the game is you got to be building your network outside of your

00:25:57.460 organization. So if at any point in time you became replaceable, whether by your own doing

00:26:04.460 or somebody else's doing, it's like, cool, I'll just go over here. Now I think that's probably

00:26:09.780 going to be the exception rather than the rule. I think what a, a honorable, intelligent employer

00:26:16.280 would do is say, wow, you're actually pretty valuable. You're a great trainer. You got these

00:26:24.200 four people and now they can do everything that you do. Can you go over to this department and train

00:26:28.940 them? And so you begin to promote up because you prove that you're capable of doing so, but don't,

00:26:34.380 don't allow yourself, like don't close off the other doors. Like don't play yourself is what I would

00:26:39.200 say. Yeah. Build a team, but, but, but worry about making sure to build your network. And this is the

00:26:45.400 one thing that a lot of people overlook, build your network outside, build connections, build

00:26:51.200 relationships, develop your client, uh, advisor relationship, whatever that looks like. So that

00:26:57.800 if at any time the job, there was a threat to your job, you could just like, for example, if, um,

00:27:06.360 order of man shut down for whatever reason, maybe there's new,

00:27:09.200 regulation or podcasts went away or whatever, I, whatever, it just went away.

00:27:16.520 I think I'd have a new gig, a pretty solid gig lined up within a day.

00:27:21.580 Yeah. Because I have connections. I have relationships. I have valuable

00:27:26.020 people that I've added value to in their own lives and they see what I can do. And so I think

00:27:32.280 I'd have a gig lined up pretty quick. I don't want that to happen, but you can bet that I've got my

00:27:36.740 bases covered. That's for sure. And I think to your point that reaching out, even be depending

00:27:42.700 on the size of the org, right. Within the organization, right. That other teams see your

00:27:46.560 value, what you bring to the table and not just your immediate team. One thing I saw that Steven

00:27:51.540 wrote here, I think is, and it's hard, it's hard to illustrate Steven. So I'm not even sure if this is

00:27:56.640 exactly applicable to the management position, but be careful not to think that to get in that trap of

00:28:05.060 like, well, Oh, I, for me to be influential, I need that position of authority first, and then I

00:28:11.660 could level up. And, and for some orgs that quote unquote management position, you could maybe,

00:28:18.820 at least in some instances, you can maybe be acting in that position already without the title,

00:28:25.360 which then you get to a point where it's like, Hey, I want to apply for this position. Everyone's

00:28:29.780 like, Oh, that's a no brainer. Right. Because you've already stepped up. You're already showing

00:28:34.220 up in a way that we, you've already proven yourself without even necessarily getting the title. Now,

00:28:39.540 of course, there's some dynamics there where you don't want to step on toes per se, but, but I'll tell

00:28:44.460 you right now, like I have guys on my team that are sometimes I've heard like, Oh, well, if I had

00:28:49.480 this position, I have this authority, like you have that authority now. And not only that, you don't

00:28:55.040 want to be a manager from the space of authority. Oh, well, I got this title. So now I can, no, no,

00:29:00.300 no. You want to be influential in a way that I've had conversation. I can communicate the value of

00:29:06.020 certain things and people follow me because it makes sense. Not because I have a title and that's

00:29:11.120 the tall tale sign where there's someone's ready for management in my opinion.

00:29:15.260 Yeah. Those are all good points. And one other thing I would add here, Kip is,

00:29:19.700 so if you really want to know if they're telling the truth, you've got to probe a little bit more

00:29:28.200 and you got to take away the reason. So for example, you and me, Kip, are having a conversation

00:29:32.760 and I come to you, which by the way, I like your intention of like, Hey, I want, I want this

00:29:37.120 management position. I think that's a good thing. So you're my manager or boss or employer. And I

00:29:42.200 come to you and I say, Hey, Kip, I've been with the organization for a couple of years. Here's what

00:29:46.780 I've added. And I I'm really interested in this management position that is opening up. Would you,

00:29:52.620 would you be willing to consider me for that position? And then you came back and you said,

00:29:57.020 well, you know, Ryan, you have, you know, we can consider you, but you're really, you're too

00:30:01.180 valuable in your current position. You said the same thing. Here's what I would say. Say, Oh,

00:30:06.260 well, thank you. And you, and you have to genuinely mean it. Like that's a compliment.

00:30:10.480 Thank you. I'm glad that you recognize that, that I'm doing a good job here. Right. I really

00:30:16.000 appreciate that. So, but here's the game. I need to paint you in a corner and, and, but you're not

00:30:22.520 doing this deceitfully. Like you, you got to do it with the right way, with the right motive, which is

00:30:27.620 to like really genuinely figure this out. So here's how you do it. Oh, well, thank you for, for letting me

00:30:33.660 know that actually means a lot to me. I didn't, I wasn't aware that you felt that way about my

00:30:38.340 performance. So I'm, I'm glad to know that. It sounds like if I'm understanding you correctly,

00:30:42.640 that, that the reason you wouldn't consider me now for the promotion is because there isn't

00:30:46.920 somebody that would replace me and that would do as good a job as me. Is that right? And you would

00:30:53.880 say, yes, right. Here's the, here's the painting you in the corner thing. Okay. Okay. So then it's

00:30:59.660 based on what I'm hearing you say, it would be safe to assume that at this point, maybe I should

00:31:05.560 consider training some other people so that I can promote. So if I were to train somebody to do

00:31:14.720 just as good a job or better than me, would there be any reason why I couldn't have the management

00:31:18.800 position? Yeah. Like I just painted you into telling the truth or actually getting to the root

00:31:26.940 of it too. Yeah. And I, and just a lick a little tactic, right? When you said that I immediately went

00:31:32.500 with like, Oh, I might have to criticize him. So if, if you're nervous, like this person's a little

00:31:37.620 bit passive and they may not be, you don't have their type of relationship where they might give

00:31:42.420 you critical feedback. Another way that you could say that same thing is, you know, could I possibly

00:31:48.280 train up someone to replace me? And what would you recommend that I focus and work on to better

00:31:55.520 prepare myself for that management position? Oh, well, you know what? And then they'll give you

00:32:01.100 it without it coming across as a negative against you. Right. And it's now just something that you

00:32:07.660 need to work on. You're right. But I think you need to take that part, that suggestion even further

00:32:13.420 because again, so if I came to you and I used what you just said, which I think is right. Yeah. Hey,

00:32:18.460 so are there, are there a few things I can be working on? So you'd feel comfortable and be like,

00:32:21.940 Oh yeah. Guess what? I guess what? I just gave you the opportunity to do kick the can down the

00:32:27.140 road. That's what I'm trying to avoid. I don't want, I need you in the corner. Yeah. And so the way

00:32:35.020 that you put them back in the corner is, okay, so are there some things that I can work on? And you

00:32:40.280 say, Oh, real Ryan really could work on your time management and your communication skills.

00:32:44.360 Good. So if in the next three months I improve my time management and I'll track everything

00:32:52.140 and I'll show you how valuable my time has been over the past three months. And then I have the

00:32:57.920 ability to more effectively communicate with you and my team members. And you'll be able to know

00:33:01.620 because I'm training these people. Then I would like to apply in three months and talk with you

00:33:07.260 about at that point. So if we got together in March, would, can we have a deeper conversation about

00:33:14.060 this? Yes. I'm not letting you off the hook, bro. Yeah. I'm not, but you got to do it respectfully

00:33:20.700 because you don't want to challenge authority. That's not what you're doing. You got to get them

00:33:24.820 in the corner where they have no outs. Otherwise they'll take it and run. And then after they

00:33:28.600 commit to it, you set up that appointment and then you send a follow-up email saying, all right,

00:33:32.440 based upon our conversation, here's my focus for the next three months, I'm going to hire,

00:33:37.020 I'm going to train up individuals to address and be efficient in these key areas.

00:33:41.260 My development plan for the next three months is going to work on this area. This is what I plan

00:33:45.700 to do on a regular basis, report back to you progress and improving in these areas. Let me

00:33:50.840 know if I missed anything. Yep. And then what you do over the next three months is you do what you

00:33:56.260 said you're going to do. So you train your replacement, you work on the improvements that

00:34:01.040 they had suggested. There's one other thing, two other things. You build your resume and you start,

00:34:07.480 you bust your ass for the next three months, getting other opportunities lined up because

00:34:13.300 there is a likelihood that you come to, I go to you Kip in three months. And I say, Kip,

00:34:18.480 it's March 1st. We talked about this. Remember? Okay. So here's what I've done. Bill and Sally and

00:34:25.920 Jim, they're all trained up. And I would actually recommend Jim. I think Jim would do a great job.

00:34:31.700 And here's why. And my communication skills, here's what I've done. As far as time management,

00:34:38.060 I actually tracked my hours. And based on what I was developing before, I was worth $100 an hour.

00:34:43.600 And now based on time management, if you look at it, I'm worth $200 an hour now.

00:34:49.940 And so can we talk about that management position? You might say no. And in that case,

00:34:55.440 you might have a decision to make, which is it might be time to move on, but you can only do that.

00:35:01.240 And the person who went, this is a negotiation tactic. The person who wins the negotiation is

00:35:07.240 the one who cares least. Let me say that again, because it's really important. A person who wins

00:35:13.300 the negotiation is the one who cares least. So if you have to have the job, you care more than them

00:35:21.160 because they can replace you, especially since you just developed and trained your replacement.

00:35:25.220 In order to care less than your employer, you need to have another job lined up.

00:35:31.540 Yeah.

00:35:32.700 And then you care less and that you're not using it as a threat. It's not a threat. You're not saying,

00:35:37.660 you don't give me, I'm leaving. Nope. We're doing this respectfully. We're doing this. It's not a

00:35:42.540 threat, but I can guarantee you that the way that you communicate and articulate yourself will change

00:35:47.580 if you've got 10 other offers over here lined up that you could take on a moment's notice.

00:35:52.620 And you want to give the person you respect you. I respect you, Kib, as my employer.

00:35:56.180 I want to give you every opportunity for me to continue to work with you. But if you're not

00:36:01.060 interested in that, it's okay. I got other opportunities over here.

00:36:04.120 Yeah. It's just not a good fit. Yeah. And it doesn't make you as desperate and have some

00:36:07.700 confidence when you know you have other options, right?

00:36:10.120 And it's going to come across. It's going to come across.

00:36:13.180 Yeah, for sure. Cool.

00:36:17.740 Keenan Webb, kind of similar question. How did you know when to leave your jobs?

00:36:23.000 Leave your job, singular.

00:36:24.600 Uh, so the, the job that I left was leaving from the financial planning practice. I mean,

00:36:31.160 I've left other jobs, but this was the main one is leaving from my financial planning practice to

00:36:34.880 do order of man stuff. Uh, you know, I didn't know. I, I really didn't. Um, I, I had, I had

00:36:40.420 a little bit of leap of faith built up. Yeah, it was absolutely. Cause there was a discrepancy

00:36:45.360 between the income I needed and the income I had a hundred percent. Uh, but I did a couple of

00:36:50.540 things. I was able to sell my business. Uh, I was able to replace a portion of that income.

00:36:55.760 I had some money in, in the bank that would hold me over until I was able to build an,

00:37:00.820 enough additional revenue to replace what I was leaving. So for me, it came down to

00:37:06.680 the, the, the finances of it. And then at that point, it was just like you said,

00:37:11.540 the rest of it was just a leap of faith knowing that, Hey, I've had success in other facets of

00:37:15.700 life. So I can be successful in this and I'm just going to do it. Yeah. Is that different for you?

00:37:21.680 Yeah. I mean, I think for me, it was really interesting when, so I, I joined, I, I sold

00:37:27.400 and joined with another company that was a competitor of mine. And, and we would, we,

00:37:32.500 we were kind of friends. We'd go snowboarding together every so often. He had only lunch. If I lost a

00:37:37.160 contract to him and vice versa, it was kind of like a banter thing. And, and, uh, he, I remember

00:37:43.640 he texted me once and said, you know, how much do I have to pay you to buy you out? Just out of

00:37:49.460 nowhere. And I'm like, whatever. Right. Like there's no way. Cause you could never. And I

00:37:55.140 literally said this, there's no way you could compete with what I have. Flexibility of time.

00:38:00.620 I'd make way more money than you realize because you own your own business and tax write-offs and

00:38:05.960 dividends and all those kinds of things. And, um, and it's my baby, right? Like it's,

00:38:11.920 I made up that logo. It has my name attached to it. Like there's this identity that that's attached

00:38:18.140 to it. You can never compete with that. And, uh, and he goes, I think I can. And I'm like,

00:38:25.720 all right, let's have lunch. Right. And we literally talked about each of the things like

00:38:30.140 how, how do, if I came on board, how could I possibly come on board and make, and I feel

00:38:35.940 like this was mine, right? How do I come on board and still have the flexibility of time

00:38:40.660 and how are you going to pay me substantially enough that I can give up my own thing and,

00:38:45.900 and join. Right. And so those were the key three criterias that I kind of focused on.

00:38:50.900 But, but the, the main thing that made it interesting for me was I felt that I was so

00:38:58.680 wrapped up in making it mine that it had to do a little bit more with ego than it was about like

00:39:06.300 how far or collaborating with others and like, how far could we go as a team? And I, and I kind of

00:39:12.420 missed that, uh, doing my own thing. Like I, for 15 years, it was, it was kind of like me running a

00:39:18.800 company and I didn't have peers, you know, I, I felt like I was running solo and it, I don't know.

00:39:25.180 And I didn't collaborate with a team as much, you know? And, um, and that was one of the things

00:39:30.420 that was really appealing by, by closing up shop and coming here is I really felt like I had this

00:39:35.600 invested buy-in into the company and I had peers where we could collaborate and build something

00:39:40.600 amazing together. And I love, I love team oriented stuff, right? I don't want to run solo. Like I can,

00:39:47.260 but I don't know, like it's so much more enjoyable to do it with a group. And those, those are the

00:39:51.680 things that were kind of, I don't know, on my radar to determine. So. Yeah, I think, I think those

00:39:56.680 are good. Let's back up just a little bit here though. And, and just to answer the question as

00:40:00.760 briefly as we can here, if you're already, if you're asking questions about that, it's really

00:40:04.880 probably time that you start, if you haven't already looking for alternatives. And at this point,

00:40:10.960 I would say it's really just a matter of strategy and execution because I don't want you to be reckless.

00:40:16.860 That's the last thing I want. And I think some people are, I'm not happy here. So I'm leaving.

00:40:19.840 Hold on. Is it that you're not happy or that you just had a bad day? Is it that you're not fulfilled

00:40:26.720 or is it that you're not doing everything you could potentially be doing to be fulfilled? Like,

00:40:31.520 hold up a second. Like, let's really think about this. So strategy comes into play. And then from

00:40:38.100 there it's execution. And what you're saying is the, the things that you were looking for,

00:40:44.000 that's part of the strategy equation. Yeah. Here's what I would need. Here's how much money

00:40:50.160 here's, I would need to be fulfilled. I would need to be able to work with the team. I'd need

00:40:53.860 to have some autonomy over my schedule. Those are all factors that are a part of strategy. But the

00:40:58.880 first thing is, yeah, if you're thinking about it, like you re you really, at this point, owe it to

00:41:04.360 yourself to explore the possibility of leaving what that would look like, what would need to happen,

00:41:10.460 how it can happen, and then execute from there. Yeah. Knowing the default nature of most people,

00:41:17.420 I would be careful that you're just not thinking that, that your problems today are a result of

00:41:23.980 your current job and that leaving and going somewhere else, they're going to get fixed without

00:41:30.200 self, without evaluating, like you use the analogy already. Like, are you just having a bad day? I know

00:41:36.620 two people that have the same exact job. One of them thinks it's the best job on earth and the other

00:41:42.520 one hates it. What's the difference? Right. It's like, part of me feels like, are you killing it?

00:41:48.960 Are you showing up in a powerful way? You know, because sometimes people have a tendency to go like,

00:41:53.560 oh, you know, this is crap. And they go get a new job and it's exciting for a little while.

00:41:57.540 And then they bring the same problems that they brought into their last employment. And the

00:42:03.580 problems sometimes are you, you know, and how you're showing up in that org. So just be mindful

00:42:08.960 of that. Cause we live in a world of like, oh, yeah, I don't like the car anymore. So I'm going to

00:42:12.520 trade it in. Or I don't like my spouse. It's too difficult. I'll just get a divorce and find a new

00:42:18.660 wife. Like just be mindful of that. Cause I think that's too much of a natural tendency. I think.

00:42:24.440 I think it can be, but I don't think that's exclusive either. So yeah, I agree. And I'm

00:42:31.400 not saying that you, you think it is either, but I do want to present the alternative in my financial

00:42:36.800 planning practice. I would have conversations with a good friend of mine, Greg Black. In fact,

00:42:42.160 Greg is the one who bought my financial planning practice. We got into the business together. We

00:42:45.800 worked with the same company. We worked with separate companies and then we merged together and

00:42:51.120 we worked together and then we went our own way and built our own companies. And, but we always

00:42:55.080 stayed in touch and we're friends. And I, I, I've barely, very early into our financial planning

00:43:02.380 practice. I would have conversations with Greg about, and I knew I'm like, I'm not going to be

00:43:06.080 doing this forever. I knew that like this, this is a short game. Yeah. Right. But in the meantime,

00:43:11.640 I was fully committed. I was all in, I was building it and I was, I was doing things in a meaningful

00:43:15.620 and significant way. And I was exploring veins and avenues that I really liked like marketing and things

00:43:20.320 like that. Uh, and then eventually long story short, I went on to sell the practice to, to Greg

00:43:25.400 and I'm very happy and fulfilled with where I am now with order of man and what I'm doing. In fact,

00:43:29.980 I feel called and compelled to do this work. And what's interesting is I've had conversations with

00:43:34.720 Greg. He feels the exact same way about his line of work. And yet I was miserable. Yeah. Right at the

00:43:40.780 end, I was miserable and he's doing it now. And he's like, I love it. What are you talking about?

00:43:44.960 So I don't think it's, and again, you're not saying this, but it is not exclusively,

00:43:50.020 oh, just make the job what you can. I would say do that first. That's low. Make sure to take

00:43:56.000 advantage of what you have for sure. And if that shores the problems up, awesome. Good. That's good.

00:44:02.920 That's better. But if it doesn't, and it becomes chronic, your dissatisfaction becomes chronic

00:44:10.480 in, in, in spite of you doing everything you can to maximize your work. It's, it's time. It's time.

00:44:18.940 Yeah. Yeah. That's a good measurement. All right. Alan Hernandez, how do you find work-life balance

00:44:25.000 when you're in the startup phase of a business? There isn't, there isn't. If you want work,

00:44:32.720 if you want what you're, what you're describing, what can I can only assume you're describing by work-life

00:44:37.880 balance. Don't start a business. Yeah. Good. Hell like go, just go work somewhere,

00:44:44.060 you know, punch in at eight o'clock, punch out at five. Don't work nights. Don't work weekends.

00:44:49.280 I'm not even, I'm not even dismissing that. I'm not, I'm not even bagging on that, right? Like do that.

00:44:55.680 If you want work-life balance, do that. You're, it's a trade-off. You are going to probably

00:45:01.200 sacrifice some autonomy. Uh, you're going to sacrifice potentially some income, not always,

00:45:07.460 but potentially, but man, if you want work-life balance, this perfect homeostatic, static,

00:45:14.540 like the amount of work is this and the perfect proportion to work in life is that just go work

00:45:21.360 for somebody. Yeah. You will work harder and have more stress. And I have always on the brain all

00:45:28.220 the time. Yep. Yeah. And it doesn't always, it's not always like that. And I know you get a season

00:45:35.000 to it. You get, there's a season. Yeah. Yeah. So in, in order of man, for example, you know,

00:45:40.980 I was working two hours before I would go to work and then I would get done with work and I would go

00:45:45.360 back to working two more hours on order of man stuff. There was no balance in that whatsoever. It was

00:45:50.800 heavily skewed towards the work side of things. And I did that for a year, give or take, and it

00:45:59.080 changed and it adjusted. And then gradually I was more with my family. And now look, I'm in the process

00:46:04.560 of writing a book. And, and so I'm heavily vested in writing every day. I'm two to three hours of

00:46:11.660 writing every single day. So those percentages start to get skewed again, but I communicate those.

00:46:17.940 I talk about them. I realize if I go hard for the next 60 to 90 days, then that eases up a little

00:46:24.360 bit. And then we get back into this more homeostatic position, but there's, there's no

00:46:30.320 work life balance. It's just micro adjustments based on outside factors and desires. And then

00:46:37.160 sometimes you got to go hard into business. Sometimes, you know, maybe your wife's dealing

00:46:42.260 with some postpartum or one of your children breaks their leg or, or has a breakup with

00:46:50.100 their boyfriend or girlfriend. And so it's like, Hey, well, I got to put a little more

00:46:53.740 time into this than I do in the business. And so it just, it evolves and adjusts. It's not

00:46:59.460 a good answer, but it's the real answer.

00:47:02.160 Yeah. And, and part of what you're saying, I hear it is, you know, be, be mindful of the

00:47:06.040 price, right. Don't, don't fall into this trap of like, there's not a price for this,

00:47:11.280 right. But there's, there's going to be a price. The question is, is get, get clear on

00:47:15.680 what that price is going to be. And, and we always talk about this when there's times

00:47:19.180 and seasons, like time box that communicate it thoroughly to those that are going to be

00:47:23.200 affected by it. And, you know, just know that it's not going to be easy.

00:47:27.800 Yep.

00:47:28.160 And also communication is a big part of it, you know, just keeping those lines of communication

00:47:32.740 open, which, which I think generally we don't do very well as men generally. So you over

00:47:39.640 communicate, I would say it's going to feel like over communication to you, but it's going

00:47:44.440 to be like normal communication to women. So just over communicate, hon, here's what I

00:47:50.580 got going on this week. Hon today I'm doing X, Y, and Z and I'll be home at this day. Hey,

00:47:55.780 on Saturday I'm all yours, but on Sunday I got to put five hours in at the office, like

00:48:00.400 just, and your children too, just talk about it. And you might say to yourself or even just

00:48:07.120 not verbalize it, but like, why, why don't they should, they should know they'll understand.

00:48:11.900 No, they won't. How, how in the world would a seven-year-old child understand that you're

00:48:17.780 knee deep in this client proposition or proposal that you're worried? Like, how's a seven-year-old

00:48:23.480 going to understand that you're lying to yourself and lying to them? They don't get it. So

00:48:28.040 communicate it so they can. And it's related, but on the business side, one of the things

00:48:35.160 that at one of the intrinsic motivators of individuals of feeling valued is being communicated

00:48:40.080 to, to be in the know. True. It means you care. It's almost a form of letting them know

00:48:45.440 that you care. Right. So not even almost Logan Rowe. Yeah. Logan Rowe. What are your thoughts

00:48:52.780 on mental health, particularly men who go to therapy? What's this man up? You don't need

00:49:01.140 to talk about your feelings. This is, this is your therapy. Go to jujitsu. That's your therapy.

00:49:07.280 You know, such a broad question. What are your thoughts? Like getting, whenever questions start

00:49:11.960 with like, what are your thoughts? Like, I know it's going to be pretty broad. What are

00:49:14.920 my thoughts about mental illness? It's a, it's a legitimate thing. Like there are people

00:49:19.800 who are mentally ill. I don't consider having a bad day or being down for a season as a mental

00:49:25.360 illness. I don't think it is. I think, I think there's something off in your life and your emotions

00:49:30.380 are manifesting what it is that's off. You just need to figure it out. But then there is mental

00:49:36.380 illness, which I would, I would generally say is, is more chronic. Like it's, it's persistent. It's

00:49:43.540 lasting. You tried things. It's not working. Okay. That might be chronic mental illness, but being

00:49:49.500 depressed. Are you mentally ill? I don't, I don't think so. I just think to that gun a little too

00:49:57.600 quickly, but I do, but somebody who's, but here's another thing too. You don't have to be mentally

00:50:03.600 ill. Just think about that word first, that phrase. It just sounds wrong. You don't have to

00:50:09.780 be mentally ill to go get therapy. Like again, let's use the analogy of a carpenter. Would a

00:50:19.960 carpenter who wants to build a big, beautiful home, leave his hammer at home and say, guys who use

00:50:25.440 hammers are weak. And so what are you going to do? Bang your head against a nail every time you're

00:50:31.520 trying to put a nail into a two before and see if it works. Yeah. Or, or go get additional training

00:50:37.760 to become a better carpenter. Right. Oh really? You need, you're not good enough. You need to go

00:50:43.200 get training. What a pathetic sack of shit you are. Like nobody thinks about it. But then when you start

00:50:49.940 thinking about your own mental health and wellbeing, it's like, oh, well, you know, you you're down on

00:50:55.820 yourself and you need to talk to somebody about it. What a loser. Really? It's very, it's really

00:51:00.920 unfortunate that, that society where there's like this, like some you're broken or like something's

00:51:06.620 wrong. And, and it's funny because like, I was just having this conversation where we're putting

00:51:11.600 together some content around like, um, soft skills training, right. For employees. And, and some of the

00:51:18.960 training is relationship building. Some of the training is communication. Some of the training

00:51:24.900 is mindset and growth mindset. You don't think psychology is encompassed in all of those subjects.

00:51:31.480 And the answer is yeah, totally. It is right. So we're mental. So we should always be working on

00:51:40.100 our mental training and improving our mindsets and everything. Like it's, it's part of life and it

00:51:46.120 shows up everywhere. It shows up how we have this conversation. It shows up on how you show up at

00:51:51.920 home. It, I mean, it's, it's part of being human. It's really weird. And we just wait until we're

00:51:57.880 broken, maybe broken to actually do something about it versus like, well, actually, no, this is just a

00:52:04.020 means of improving myself constantly. I don't know. Well, and there's, there's a, there's a, uh,

00:52:10.580 I think it's pretty generally held belief that if you want to perform well, then you would hire a coach

00:52:15.180 or a mentor. Yeah. Most people understand that concept. And again, you're not going to ever

00:52:20.800 mock somebody or laugh at somebody because they hired a mentor. And so if, if it, if you choose

00:52:27.540 to look at having to have a conversation with somebody to work through some things that you

00:52:31.640 don't know how to work through, if you want to consider that a mentorship instead of a therapist,

00:52:36.640 then do that. Yeah. This is the way you frame it, but I don't think there's anything wrong with

00:52:42.840 actually some of the most cathartic moments in my life have come from working with a therapist

00:52:47.860 who helped me see some things that I couldn't see myself and that I didn't feel weak. I was like,

00:52:53.920 Oh, that's actually good. Like that's, that's some good stuff. And it made me better. So yeah,

00:53:00.520 there is mental health and then there's just being down and just dealing with the difficulties of life

00:53:05.440 and being in therapy is not a problem. There's other avenues to find a good hobby, like a wholesome,

00:53:13.120 physical related, competitively driven hobby and have a band of brothers. I don't think it replaces

00:53:21.080 therapy, but it's a nice addition to it's a, it rounds out your, I'm trying to think about how I

00:53:30.700 could say your, your mental health regimen, right? Like all of us have a physical regimen. Like we go train,

00:53:37.180 we go lift, we go run, we go for a walk. We have to hit this many steps. We try to eat this food and not

00:53:42.680 that food. That's your physical training. That's your, you know, your, your, your, your regimen for your

00:53:48.920 physicality. Well, you can do that for, for your mentality too. And so build that out. I've got a hobby.

00:53:54.800 I've got a vent there. I've got brothers I can talk with. I've got a therapist if I need to go

00:53:59.700 chat with them. And so that's your regimen. Those are your tools that you can rely on to build up your

00:54:04.060 mental strength. Copy. Kevin Bovee, uh, this is a little bit long when I'll struggle through this.

00:54:11.280 So the steps to take, to win over the love of your life after she has filed for a divorce. I know you've

00:54:16.020 been through what I'm going through. I'm at the point where I realized my failure as a man,

00:54:21.120 as a husband and as a father, I'm on a new journey of correcting my mistakes, growing and developing

00:54:26.680 daily to become the best version of myself. I've already left the home and she's already began

00:54:33.240 talking to other men. I want her back, but I know I need time to heal myself growing to the man. I

00:54:39.120 know I should have already been and give her time and space to heal herself. What steps would you

00:54:44.460 recommend to achieve these things? I'm on this journey of self-development, regardless of the

00:54:49.080 divorce. If she never wants me back, I know I still need to grow. I actually don't want to answer

00:54:54.800 this question. Um, not because it's not important, but because we've done a couple of in-depth

00:55:00.840 conversations around this. And so anything that I would say to answer that question is a repeat

00:55:07.340 and not to the same degree that we've covered in other episodes. So actually what I want you to do

00:55:13.120 is I want you to go wherever you're listening to podcasts, whether it's Spotify or iTunes or Stitcher or

00:55:18.400 wherever, and just go to our, go to ours, or even go to our website and go to our website.

00:55:24.320 And there's a podcast called fix your marriage by fixing yourself. And there's another one called

00:55:31.760 fix yourself first. And I want you to go listen to those. I think between those two, there's probably

00:55:38.080 an hour worth of content there. And again, anything I shared with you right now would be a couple of

00:55:43.180 minutes. So go listen to those. Anybody who's dealing with this right now. And there's a lot of you,

00:55:47.920 I know there are, and I feel for you, which is why I want to give you everything you need

00:55:52.480 in those two podcasts that will do it significantly better justice than what I can do here.

00:55:57.700 Fix your marriage by fixing yourself and fix yourself first.

00:56:02.560 Okay. Andrew, question, what can I do as an individual when I feel like my church globally

00:56:10.620 is losing the courage of its convictions? What can you do personally?

00:56:16.900 Yeah. Live your life within your own convictions and lead others to do the same. Like what is

00:56:23.100 your global church have to do with the way that you show up and perform?

00:56:28.060 Now, granted you, you, you want, whether it's a church or a business that you belong to,

00:56:32.960 you want the organization that you believe in to live up to its ideals,

00:56:36.060 but you don't have any control over that. What are you going to do? Go talk to the Pope about

00:56:40.980 how the Catholic church is making mistakes. How's that going to work? Like, is that going to change?

00:56:48.140 It's not going to change anything. So where do you start? With the lowest common denominator.

00:56:52.460 It's like in math, you know, if you wanted to add fractions, what did you need to do? You got to find

00:56:56.560 the lowest common denominator. Same thing here. And the lowest common denominator is you.

00:57:02.240 The second lowest common denominator is your wife and your children. And then it's your neighbors.

00:57:08.980 And then it's your community. And that community could even be your, your church parish or a men's

00:57:15.180 group with inside of your church organization. And then it expands from there. So what can you do

00:57:21.000 personally? Like I said, last time, fix yourself first, work on yourself, expand it from there.

00:57:29.120 That's how you build and grow influence. You're not going to do it from the top down.

00:57:33.040 You need to do it from the bottom up. Yeah. And we had another question that, that I,

00:57:38.800 maybe we put on the coattails of this one is like, you know, and I can't find the question right now

00:57:43.760 because I scrolled past it already, but a brother was asking about, you know, how do we show up better

00:57:49.040 in our communities to help men be, you know, better fathers and better husbands? And I would

00:57:57.320 suggest that it's an echo of what you just said, right? Like being a great father, a great husband

00:58:02.940 and being in contact with those said people. Well, it's, it, you know, it reminds me of the

00:58:08.660 questions that we hear periodically, which is like, how do you make your dent in the universe?

00:58:12.880 Bro, you can't. And I'd say this jokingly. You can't even take the trash out when you say you will.

00:58:17.380 How in the world are you going to make a dent in the universe? You can't even put that alcohol

00:58:21.920 down. You can't even not eat that extra taco at dinner. Like what the hell, what the hell are

00:58:26.620 you talking about? How you're going to dent the universe. Like you can't even make a dent in your,

00:58:31.260 in the scale for your weight. Like do that first. Yeah. And then we can talk about changing your

00:58:39.500 family, not the universe, like your family, maybe get your kids to, to connect with you a little

00:58:44.840 deeper, you know, maybe have a deeper conversation, get them to do a little bit more of their school

00:58:49.040 work, get them to play their sports a little harder or show a little more dedication. Or maybe you get

00:58:54.460 your wife to be attracted to you because you're worried and working on yourself. And then you

00:58:59.100 start dialing that in and then you look to your employment. And like we were saying earlier, you

00:59:03.800 know, you, you, you go all in, you train new people, like make your dent where it counts in the

00:59:08.840 universe. It doesn't count right now. Cause what are you going to do? Like, like, how do you even

00:59:13.940 see that working? Yeah. But I can go impact my kids. I can go have a conversation with my son or

00:59:20.400 my daughter right now and make a huge dent in 60 seconds negatively or positively, by the way.

00:59:27.040 Yeah. But I could do that in 60 seconds. I could turn this podcast off and I could go make a dent right

00:59:31.780 now. So that's part of your training, right? Like that's, you know, by you getting yourself aligned,

00:59:37.600 that's part of the training that preps you to then be in a better position to have an influence on

00:59:42.740 your family. And, and as you improve in that area, that is your training to be better at

00:59:48.300 influencing other people outside of your family and your community and then et cetera, right? Like

00:59:52.820 some people want to jump the head and think that like, there, there's not nothing that the,

00:59:57.880 like they could just get to a point of causing greater influence when they can't even influence

01:00:02.560 those around them. Ultimate is what I'm trying to say. Yeah. And, you know, I think there's another

01:00:07.260 thing too. And I, I believe this is generally good is that we, as men look around for problems

01:00:12.060 to solve. And we think that because there's so much injustice in the, in the world, we must not

01:00:16.520 be doing enough. Well, there's a couple of things. Sometimes it takes time. You know, like if I wanted

01:00:24.740 to lose 20 pounds, yeah, I can lose 20 pounds. I'm not going to do it today, but what I eat today is

01:00:30.780 certainly going to make an impact, but I want to experience 20 pounds of loss for the next two to three

01:00:35.520 months. And so we think we generally associate the lack of result with our, with, with too little

01:00:45.420 effort. Right. So like, well, you know, the reason I'm not losing any weight, I'm not doing it hard

01:00:50.120 enough. And so you just go harder and then you burn yourself out. And then you just get back on

01:00:53.420 the same scale you were before. You just, you just need to focus on the small actions and then

01:01:00.700 gradual improvement from there. So, um, I was training today. I did a little training with

01:01:06.380 Brian Littlefield and him and I do some one-on-one training every week. Just, just him and I, he's a

01:01:11.500 black belt. And he, he has me come with like specific things I want to work on, whether it's

01:01:16.560 certain positions or submissions or just general knowledge about jujitsu. And, and I was asking him

01:01:23.320 the other day, last time we got together about, you know, something as specific, he's like, you know,

01:01:27.900 that's like, that's good to know, but we'll probably talk about that in a couple of months.

01:01:33.520 And I was like, well, what do you mean? He's like, you don't need to know that. Like you,

01:01:37.920 here's what you need to know, like how to escape this or how to keep somebody to guard or guard

01:01:42.980 retention, like work on that first. And when you build that, then we'll do it. It's like Mr. Miyagi's,

01:01:48.740 you know, wax on wax off. Well, I don't want to know how to throw a punch. No, just wax on wax off

01:01:53.500 right now. Paint, paint the, the, the, the wall for now. And so that's what we need to do is focus

01:02:00.500 on the little incremental things that will make a difference. And then we, we execute them. We put

01:02:06.100 them into practice and then we build on our, on our skillset from there, but you can't go from like

01:02:14.400 A to Z. You have to go from A to B. And the problem we have as men is it doesn't happen fast enough.

01:02:20.180 And while I can appreciate that wanting it to happen now that, that that's an indicator of

01:02:27.180 desire and drive, it just isn't realistic. And then it ends up discouraging us. And we move on

01:02:32.720 from our goals and objectives. Yeah. Copy. All right. Last fun, short question. So Pavel,

01:02:39.580 um, Polovoi, what is the best way to start sparring in jujitsu? And now that I read it,

01:02:47.000 is he, is he talking about striking within jujitsu or going to open that?

01:02:54.000 I interpret it as, as striking in jujitsu. So what I would suggest

01:02:59.100 is the next purple belt or higher that you train with, just punch them in the face at the first

01:03:06.200 opportunity you get. And then he'll understand and he'll start punching you back.

01:03:09.820 And it'll, it'll get started sparring. Uh, look, I don't know. I actually don't,

01:03:17.060 if you're talking about if you're, when you're saying sparring, if you're talking about open

01:03:21.760 mat, like roll, like you, you just, you do that at, at a, at a school, right? That's,

01:03:26.360 that's what they're going to do. Different schools are different Kip. Like I know you guys are heavy,

01:03:30.660 heavy emphasis on technique and drilling. Whereas that's not to say you guys don't train. You do,

01:03:37.540 you roll, but it's heavy. Am I right? Am I right? I'm right. I'm right on that.

01:03:41.320 We'll do a class and then open that.

01:03:44.520 Open that. Right. Yeah. So, but my school is like, you go and you just show up before open that

01:03:50.780 and you just go roll like for an hour and a half. And at the end, we'll dabble some,

01:03:55.640 some technique in there. So each school is going to be slightly different. So, you know,

01:04:00.980 you adjust or go to the one you like, if that's what you're talking about,

01:04:04.320 if you're talking about sparring, same thing. I think certain schools, like you guys do more of,

01:04:09.500 I don't know what you call it, but I would say more of like self-defense jujitsu as opposed,

01:04:13.380 as opposed to sport jujitsu. Like there's the sport of it, which I'm not going to go like arm bar.

01:04:20.220 Like, I'm not going to get a fight on the street and try to arm bar. I'm going to try to choke them

01:04:24.000 out, but like, I'm not going to do an Alma Plata on somebody in the street. Like, I just don't see that

01:04:30.540 happening. And so there's other schools that are going to be more self-defense oriented and they

01:04:36.040 actually might mix some striking into jujitsu. We don't personally do that, but there are schools

01:04:43.380 that do that. Yeah. So if Pavel's saying, Hey, you know, I'd be taking jujitsu classes.

01:04:49.040 These guys are having sparring sessions or open mat that the best way to start, I would just say is

01:04:56.160 just go, but maybe a mindset benefit would be like, if this is your, you know, you're nervous

01:05:02.460 about it, you're learning a little bit of technique, but you haven't been to open mat yet.

01:05:07.620 Just try to, I, what I try to tell people is just be mindful of, be mindful as you're training,

01:05:14.400 like think through it. Like, okay, why am I, why am I like controlling my heart rate and breathing

01:05:21.120 hard? And why am I trying to stop everything he's doing when I don't even know what he's doing?

01:05:24.800 Like just try to go with the flow. Your body's going to naturally act a certain way. And we all

01:05:31.840 do, you know, when we first got started, but, but the better, the more mindfulness that you have

01:05:37.900 around your training and what you're trying to do and, and trying to protect yourself, maybe

01:05:41.540 initially in those first phases is just think, Hey, I'm just going to try to get submitted,

01:05:46.440 you know, and, and find your game where whatever that game is based upon.

01:05:51.840 I think it's also partners are. Yeah. I think it's also a personality thing,

01:05:56.640 you know? So my personality is if I had never trained jujitsu before, I could just, again,

01:06:04.960 this is my personality. I could show up to an open mat and just say, I'm just going to go figure it

01:06:09.200 out. And I could go get my ass kicked for an hour and I would come back. Yeah. And there's some

01:06:16.280 personalities, they would never do that. Maybe they would go. And if they got their asses kicked

01:06:21.000 for an hour, they'd say, this isn't for me. I don't like it. That's not my personality.

01:06:26.340 That's why STEM schools won't let new guys go to open mat and have open sparring. Cause you know,

01:06:32.180 the reality of it is, is most people go screw that shit. I just got my ass handed to me

01:06:36.660 for an hour and a half. And I don't even know these guys like, you know,

01:06:40.300 so, but there's, but look at the other side too. Cause if I went to a class and they said,

01:06:45.460 Hey, we're going to drill for an hour and a half. And then I'm like, okay, that sounds good. I've

01:06:49.440 never been like, I don't know what to expect. So I go drill on some move or maneuver or position for

01:06:53.620 an hour and a half. And I'm like, okay, well, when do we get to apply it? They're like, Oh,

01:06:56.900 you don't get to do that. Like screw that. Like I'm here to do it. I'm not here to like patty cake each

01:07:03.300 other. Like, so you gotta, you gotta find something that works for you. And I think both are good. I

01:07:09.940 think drill and instruction. And I think live roles are crucial in your development. So,

01:07:14.100 but that, that might be a personality thing too. The name of the game is just to stay in it

01:07:18.460 and whatever's going to keep you in the game. Just push through whatever is blocking you from

01:07:23.560 not just go anyway. Yeah. And really from, from a striking perspective, just find some partners,

01:07:30.220 throw some four ounce gloves on and train jujitsu and punch each other.

01:07:35.840 That's how you get started. It sounds so ridiculous,

01:07:39.080 but it's the truth. Like it's, but I do that with, with my, one of my training partners,

01:07:43.860 Brody Cousineau. We don't, we don't strike, but like when we started, we're both white belts.

01:07:49.160 This was two and a half years ago. And we still don't rip each other. We beat the shit out of each

01:07:54.540 other. And I remember like, I'll go in there and be like, Hey, let's go 50% and go for 50% for like

01:08:00.160 10 seconds. And then we just balls to the wall. Like we beat the shit out of each other,

01:08:05.200 but also we've agreed upon that. Like that's the expectation too, right? Like that's how you roll

01:08:10.620 with each other. I'm coming to go. You're coming to go. Like I'm coming to get you. You're coming

01:08:15.020 to get me. Like, I'm not going to make a cheap shot or like change the expectation. Like, no,

01:08:21.980 that's the expectation. So if you set the expectation that, Hey guys, we're going to do

01:08:25.780 some light striking as we roll. And that's the expectation from everybody else, man, that's awesome.

01:08:31.020 I think go for it. Yeah, for sure. All right, sir. We'll go ahead and wrap up. So, uh,

01:08:37.840 all right, guys questions. Well, let's just talk about the iron council. So it is December 2nd.

01:08:43.420 Yep. Um, and we are limiting when the IC is open for, uh, enrollment and yeah. And this,

01:08:50.820 this podcast actually is going to release on the eighth. So we're even deeper into this rookie.

01:08:56.240 Yeah. By now it's probably full. It's joking. So don't worry about it. Yeah, no. So go to,

01:09:03.280 go to order man.com slash iron council. Um, we'll, we'll leave it open for a period of time.

01:09:08.920 And then it's going to close back up until, um, you know, the next opening. And so when those

01:09:15.040 opportunities come, you guys need to take advantage of them and hop in. And that's right. If you need to

01:09:21.100 be notified of those openings or future events, uh, that we have for next year and et cetera,

01:09:28.140 go to order man.com, sign up for the newsletter, follow Mr. Mickler on, on the socials to stay

01:09:34.080 connected and updated on what we have going on. And as of this recording, which is the 2nd of

01:09:40.540 December. So a week ago, if you're listening to this, the day it came out, um, we had 47 new

01:09:46.800 members already joined. So get on it very, very quickly. Yeah. Yeah. Get on it quick. All right,

01:09:53.020 guys, that's all we've got good questions today. Keep them coming. Uh, and we will be back on Friday

01:09:58.180 until then go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening

01:10:02.580 to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you

01:10:07.600 were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:10:16.800 We invite you to join the order of man.com.

Order of Man - December 08, 2021

Leading Through Loss, When to Leave Employment, and Fixing Yourself First ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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