Leading with Honor The Ethical Authority Debate ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING
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Summary
In this episode, the brother and sister duo of the sit down with Kip and talk about how to deal with anxiety and depression. Kip talks about how he's dealing with it and how to overcome it. We also talk about our upcoming hunting trip to Hawaii and how we're going to hunt axis deer.
Transcript
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yeah, it was, it was very, it was very subdued. It was, it was tempered. I wasn't sharing all
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the bullshit and the baggage. I was just sharing like maybe what he, I thought he wanted to hear
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and what was like the, the culturally acceptable answer. But when I started working with my new
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therapist, um, I made the decision that, no, I'm just going to share. And I might sound like an
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evil son of a bitch, but if I want to improve, then I have to be honest with somebody who can
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actually help me navigate my feelings. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest,
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embrace your fears and boldly charge your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up
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one more time. Every time you are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.
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This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day.
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And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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Kip, what's up, brother? So great to see you a little, a little different than we normally do
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because we're not normally recording on a Friday, but, uh, we've got some, some upcoming plans. So
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we got to make some adjustments. Just like life. We have to pivot and adjust as necessary.
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That's right. For those of you may not know, Kip and I are going on a hunt. Uh, not,
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wait, is it? No, not next week. The following week. Yeah. Right. Yeah. The following week.
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So it's coming up fast. We're going to go hunt some axis deer in Hawaii. Is this your first,
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First archery. Literally every day I go home, I spend 30 minutes, I shoot some arrows and I'm just
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hoping if I do that daily between now and then I will know somewhat what to do to at least throw an
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arrow at something. I don't know. Yeah. Well, we'll, we'll have shots for sure. Whether you hit
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something or not is to be determined. Same with me. I'm not, I'm not saying you, you will or won't
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and I will, but, uh, it's, it's a tough hunt and not very many people get to say their first archery
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hunt is on the Island of Molokai, uh, shooting axis deer. So it's going to be a good time.
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I'm excited. I mean, of course I'm excited. Of course I want to go and, and get a kill and be
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successful. So I'll try to like have the expectation of doing good, but also the humility
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of realizing that it's about the moment and appreciate it and try not to put too high of
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expectations on, on how it shows up. So we'll see. It's such a, I think that's a really good
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way, especially when it comes to hunting, you know, you train for the best, you train for the
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outcome you desire, but, and you've said this in the past, once you get there, the nothing else
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matters because you've already put in the work you've put in the effort and hopefully
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it all comes together. The problem with life is there's external circumstances that are
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beyond your control. There's deer that are trying to stay alive just as much as you're
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trying to kill them. If you're dealing with people, they have their own set of values and
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principles and interests that sometimes are aligned and sometimes aren't. So it's, it's
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tough. You know, I wish everybody and everything would just bend and succumb to my will, but
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obviously that just doesn't work out. It hasn't worked out yet. I'm assuming archery grouping is
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a good sign, just like shooting a rifle. And so I actually feel pretty good at 20 and 30 yards. My
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groupings are solid. The funny part is all my groupings are about eight inches to the right of
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the target of where I'm aiming. I'm super consistent off target to the right in the same exact spot.
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So I don't know if, if my site's off or if I'm, have you made your adjustments yet?
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I haven't touched anything on the bow. Like, is that what you're talking?
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We'll talk offline. So just like when you're sighting, it's not that you're off. I mean,
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we can look at your technique. It's not that the technique is bad. It may or may not be. We need to
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look at it. But when, when you set, when you get a brand new gun, for example, and you put a new
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optic on there, the grouping is good. It doesn't matter where it's grouped, but then you start
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walking it into the bullseye. And it's the same thing with archery. If you're shooting everything
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eight inches to the right, that's not bad. The fact that it's consistently eight inches to the
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right means that we just need to move your pin to the right a little bit. And what that'll do is
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that'll naturally make you adjust your aim and bring it to the left, which is going to be center. So
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that's, that's an easy fix. We'll talk offline about it. I'll send you a video and show you how to do
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that. Yeah. Cause it's consistent. Like I'm like wicked consistent. Perfect. That's good.
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Yeah. I'd rather you be consistent in one direction. And all we have to do now is just
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walk it in. Just like with rifle, with rifle, you don't change your shot at all. You don't
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change your aim or anything else. We'll just walk it in based on the adjustments that we make to the
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site. Easy fix. Cool. Well, yeah, I'm excited, man. I did my first, uh, not, not that this means
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anything. I'm not, I, I realized it's more accident than anything, but I already ruined an arrow
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because I like Robin hood it like a caught the fletching. I know. I saw that. Hey, that's kind
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of cool. That's, you know, pretty consistent. So it's kind of fun. It's actually, it's actually
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not common. I I've maybe, and I've been hunting for eight years and I've shot thousands and thousands
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of arrows. I may have done that maybe three or four times tops. So the fact that you're getting
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grouping that tight where you're ripping the fletchings off of other arrows, you didn't ruin that
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arrow, by the way. So don't throw it away. You just need to put a new fletching on it.
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See, that's the other. Yeah. Don't get it. Cause those arrows get expensive.
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Well, and it's funny because I went to the, the archery, uh, store and, and there I'm like,
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do you need arrows? I'm like, yeah. And then they pull out shafts. Right. And I'm like,
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you don't have pre-made ones. Oh no, we have to build these. I was like, damn.
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Yeah. They, they cut them to size. I know it's cool. It's cool. Well, good, man. It's
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going to be good. Well, I'll help you get some of that stuff worked out. I've got some changes
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here. Obviously you can see the new studio lighting has changed a little bit. I'm very
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excited about this. Um, the reason I'm excited about it, and there's a lesson I want to share
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other than just bragging about how good it looks. The lesson is hire people that are experts.
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I mean, I've, I've, I've done the YouTube thing. I've looked at videos. Like I know a little bit
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about lighting. This guy, I hired him. He's a videographer. His name is drew renner here in town.
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I called him up. I'm like, Hey man, I need just some consulting with my lighting in my studio. He's
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like, cool. So he came over, charged an hourly rate for it, came over. And within five minutes,
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it looked a hundred percent better. And then we spent about an hour tweaking, adjusting. He sent me a
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link for some other things that I need. So you're going to see some changes. If you're not on
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YouTube, make sure you go to a youtube.com slash order of man, and you can see what the lighting
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looks like, but it's a testament to the power of hiring experts. I spent 120 bucks or something.
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He spent an hour, hour and a half with me. It's been 120 bucks and I'm using less stuff than I was
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before. I have one less lighting or one fewer lights than I did before. And I, I literally have,
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you can't see it. I have a bed sheet over this lighting to soften it up a little bit. It's wild
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what you can do with some of this stuff. I mean, this is just the power of just making sure if you
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want to, if you want to be the best, hire people to help you be the best, whether it's lighting or
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jujitsu or firearms or archery or business or social media, hire coaches, implement their advice.
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It's going to pay dividends. I love that principle. And it looks great. Looks great.
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All right. Headlines. Are we doing headlines? Let's get into some questions. I have one prepared.
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I don't know if you have one. It's just you today. I didn't even think about it since we're off. So if
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you have one, I'm assuming you'll appreciate, you'll appreciate this headline or you'll have an
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opinion about it nonetheless. Okay. Check this out. Eric Prince used to, Eric Prince used to be a
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founder of BlackRock. Okay. Recently appeared on a podcast, literally this past week and said the
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following, it's time for us to put the Imperial hat back on to say, we're going to govern those
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countries. If they're incapable of governing themselves, because enough is enough. We are done
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being invaded. And this, he's talking about helping Africa because, you know, we're tired
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of being invaded. So man, we got to govern Africa better. He says, Prince said, noting how Africa
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governments are stocked with corruption, politics, looting and pillaging, which leads to a major
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disorder and mass migration abroad. He added that he's absolutely talking about being a colonialist.
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Okay. So this is this guy's statement. I'm stealing this information from someone else that,
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that shared this. Here's the funny part. So Eric Prince, no longer with BlackRock.
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He is now part of a VC called Frontier Resource Group. And according to their, and I have their
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LinkedIn page up right now, this is what Frontier Resource Group does. They're a private equity fund
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investing in natural resource opportunities in the frontier markets. We specialize in risk mitigation,
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operational efficiencies within complex environments, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
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And I, learning this, I immediately went to, and it's a scripture in the LDS religion. And I,
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and I get, we're not all part of the scripture or this religion, but this has always spoken to me.
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And this, and the phrase is, we have learned by sad experience. That is, it is, that it is the nature
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and dispensation of almost all men. As soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose,
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they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion. And I love that phrase because I,
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you see it, people get a little bit of authority and all of a sudden we practice unrighteous
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dominion. We get full of ourselves. We think we know what's best for people and we practice
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unrighteous controls. And this is just a prime example of this. You don't think this is, I mean,
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and we, we even see this in, in small companies where we get into positions and we assume that we know
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what's best for people. We don't go out of our way to ask for insights and their opinions. And we
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twist the truth a little bit. We justify some action so we can remain inside of control. And I
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think this is just a prime example of that shadiness that so many men practice.
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I mean, the real question is, what do you do to combat it? Because it is the, the, the nature of man,
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I think. I pulled up a quote here that I think a lot of people have heard and it's this, and you've
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heard this too. Power tends to corrupt absolutely. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. This is the
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same concept that you're talking about here. The question is, how do we refrain from exercising
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unrighteous dominion over other people? There's nothing wrong with power, by the way.
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And I, and I think there is a misconception about that because people, yeah, people, especially in
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modern times with you, you use the word colonized to, to, to colonialize certain, certain countries
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or certain geographical areas, you know, and, and, and people look at this tyrannical patriarchy
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and they look at the hierarchy of organizations, whether it's for profit, nonprofit, and governments.
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And we look at it and very shallowly and ignorantly believe that it's just a, a product of power.
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And it's typically not, especially in this country, it's a product of aptitude. It's the
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meritocracy that we still live in for the most part. So power is not bad. There is situations in which
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we have power. If you're the employer or the boss or the business owner, you have more power than the
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rank and file employee clearly. So the question is not whether or not power is, is being utilized.
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It is, it's whether or not you're utilizing it righteously. And if you have power, what, what's
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the, what's the phrase, uh, with great responsibility, with, with, uh, with great power comes great
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responsibility. Guys, we have a moral obligation to take our authority and power that we have,
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or that we've earned, or even been bestowed to us to do righteous things, to serve other people,
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to lift other people up, to use the resources that we have at our disposal, to serve other people,
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to serve ourselves, to do righteous things, to solve problems, real problems that impact people
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negatively. The, the challenge is it's hard because your nature is to amass and maintain that power
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at all expenses at any cost. And it's, uh, it's something we have to fight against constantly
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because the nature of man is to just be corrupt. And I heard a, uh, I heard a pastor the other day or,
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or a bishop or, you know, it was the Pope. It was the Pope. He said, I think all men are good.
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I'm like, that's biblically incorrect. You're the freaking Pope. That's funny. Men are fallen.
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That is biblically inaccurate. And I'm not saying I'm a biblical scholar. I made a comment about Jesus,
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uh, uh, having the disciples to learn from, and I've been called out on that. And so there's some
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nuance to that, what I meant, but I failed to explain, but that's, that's another conversation.
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But the Pope is biblically inaccurate. Men are fallen. Yeah. We are in a fallen state. We are
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sinners by our nature. That's why the natural man. And it's up to us to, yeah, exactly. It's up to us
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to combat against the natural man and, and be better, be more righteous, work towards doing good things.
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So I, it was really funny when I heard the Pope say that, I'm like, wait, what did he just say
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that we're naturally good? No, we're not. We're fallen. We're tempted. We're sinners and we need
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redemption. Yeah. Well, and that's, and what's great about it is to know it. Right. And then what
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do we do with it? We check ourselves. We make sure, wait, am I doing this out of authority? Is this
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about me? Is this about my ego or is this what's best? And we, and that's how we do it. And you ask
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this question, we'll keep them. What do we do with it? Right? Well, what we do with it is we call
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things out. We, we see things like this and we say something about it at least. And we have the
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conversation around it to help mitigate and put checks and balances in place.
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Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Uh, all right. I was just pulling something up there. All right, man. Well,
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let's get into some questions. I think that's very interesting. Um, I don't really know the
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context of all that. So what does he live in at Prince lives in Africa, somewhere in Africa,
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an African province, or I don't, I don't know. He sold Blackwater, started a VC that VC specializes
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in frontier environmental investments. And here he is on a podcast. He's from the U S and
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here he is on a podcast talking about how we should colonize Africa because, you know,
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they don't know what they're doing. Right. Yeah. Well, look, shape, I mean, that's evil in
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and of itself, but then you start mixing in the corruption and the conflict of interest with
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running a, an organization that wants to steal and extrapolate resources. Yeah. That's a,
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that doesn't, doesn't look good. Yeah. The optics are not good at all. Yeah. But you know,
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he'll get away with it. People are, people are just willing to turn the other cheek. So anyways,
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let's go. All right. So we're going to field questions from the gram from Instagram to follow
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Mr. Mickler there. Go to, uh, at Ryan Mickler and that's your handle as well for X. All right. Um,
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I see a lot of influencers. This is last in line leadership. I see a lot of influencers who profess to
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be Christians that really aren't as open about it when promoting their business coaching and
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curriculum book and social platforms. I've always appreciated the way you are bold about your faith
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in most conversations, but I wonder why many Christian men seem to compartmentalize their faith
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when conducting business or interacting in a secular environment. And this is a good question
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because I actually kind of do this, I think so. Yeah. Well, I think there's a couple of different
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things I would suggest here. Number one is not all people are going to behave the same way that you
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do, or you would like them to. So you're, you're saying, well, they're not doing what I would do.
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Right. Cause they're a completely different person. So for us to judge that person and say, well, he
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should be doing this. He should be doing that. He doesn't believe he's a believer. He's a 50% believer.
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Well, he's just going about his life differently, differently than you, you know, and, and who's to say
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that he doesn't talk about those things in other contexts. If I'm a lawyer, for example, I'm probably
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not going to profess my Christian faith to my clients because it's really irrelevant to the
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conversation that we're having. Now, will I hopefully exercise Christian principles in the way that I
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approach my work with a client? I would hope that's the goal, but it's not really always necessary or
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even appropriate to bring those things up. So, you know, there's also another, another risk that
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you run. And I've seen this plenty of times where people profess their Christianity, but they're using
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it as a gimmick and a tactic to acquire new business. So are you saying that that person's
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more righteous because they're talking more about Christianity when they're just leveraging it as a
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tool to manipulate people? Of course, that's not the right thing. So it's hard to judge people's
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motives. And that's what we need to be very, very cautious of. Well, that person doesn't believe in
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God because he doesn't talk about it to my liking. How do you know? How do you know what that person's
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experiencing you going through now? So that's one. The other thought I have about this, and, and I
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appreciate that, that you think that I, we talk about this. I don't really feel like I talk about it a
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whole lot actually relative to as much as I could, but I do that by design. And I know there's going to be a
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lot of people who hear what I'm about to say and, and rebuke, and maybe even chastise what I'm going
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to say because of what the Bible shares about not being ashamed. I'm like, what is it? I think it's in
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Romans. I'm not ashamed of the gospel of Christ. So you could interpret what I'm about to say as being
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ashamed. It's not, but this is a secular organization. And I really believe that we can reach
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more people with Christian principles if we don't talk about it under the guise or the lens of
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Christianity all the time. Because they can't relate as much. And if that's not agreeable to you,
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they can't, they don't, they're like, wait, you're talking about this concept of masculinity,
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biblical masculinity, but I don't believe in the Bible. So you just lost that person.
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There are other organizations out there who do talk a lot more about Christianity than we do. And
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those are great organizations. And I believe in what they're doing. And I think they should do it
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that way. But we do this by design and no one can doubt, and this might sound even a little arrogant,
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but no one can doubt the reach, the millions and millions of men who are not Christian that we have
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reached with biblical Christian principles because we haven't talked about it from that context.
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Is that right or wrong? I don't know. That's up for you to decide. But for me, this is how I choose
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to run the organization. And you will hear me talk about my faith, but I don't ever push that faith
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on other people. And I try to make arguments that aren't based in faith alone. And I'll tell you why.
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There's a logical fallacy called the appeal to authority.
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So if I say, for example, in the concept of masculinity, and I'm talking to us as fellow
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listeners and people of Order Man and Iron Council, that the reason you should be a good man is because
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the Bible tells us to be good men. Well, what about the guy who doesn't believe in the Bible?
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So all you did right there is you undermined your own argument because your argument is only strong
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enough in so much that somebody believes in the authority that you're appealing to, the Bible in
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this case. But if somebody doesn't believe in the Bible, it's very easy to dismiss that argument and
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say, well, I don't believe in the Bible, so am I okay being an evil man? So I think if you're going to
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make an argument, you should be able to do it from a faith-based perspective. But I also believe that
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you should have a way to explain your side of the argument to anyone who may not believe in the
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authority that you're claiming right now. It's just a great way to approach life because you're
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going to talk with all sorts of people. You know, it's like somebody saying, well, you know,
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you're raising your sons wrong. And I'm a therapist. And because I'm a therapist, I know. And then you
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say, well, how many kids do you have? They're like, I don't have kids. Okay. Your authority means
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nothing to me. That little designation degree piece of paper, although I commend you for doing
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the work to get it, means nothing. You don't have kids. You don't know what it's like to raise sons
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and daughters. You don't know what it's like to have to put your kid to sleep when they're crying
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or pick them up because they've had a bad day or celebrate them, celebrate with them when they do
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something incredible. You, you've read about it. You've seen it, maybe some nieces and nephews,
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but you haven't done it. So your authority means nothing to me. Anyways, maybe I got off on a little
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bit of a tangent, but that's why we approach it that way. That's why principles are so profound
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because they're transcendent. And so when we, when we get past the authority of something and we decide
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to get into principles, then the relatable across multiple spectrums. That's why when we look at
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leadership development, how often can you reference being a parent and use parent examples to teach
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leadership because it's a principle. And that principle is transcendent, whether you're a parent,
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whether you're a boss, whether you're a passion, it doesn't matter. Principles are principles. And so
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the more that we can connect to the principle, the more relatable it is. And then people can be
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wherever they are on the path of growth and development, they can find that relationship
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and understanding of the principle where they are. So I'm the same way. In fact, I'm probably,
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I'm probably more cautious around religious things, mostly because the other part is I don't want other,
00:23:19.420
I don't want people to feel like I'm using it as a tool, you know? So I'm probably overly cautious
00:23:26.740
around it because I don't want people to think that I'm using it as a tool to manipulate
00:23:31.520
or whatever. Um, and I have to be even careful with that pendulum swinging too far in that
00:23:37.180
direction. I don't worry too much about that because I know my motives. And so I'm not going
00:23:44.220
to worry about other people interpreting my motives. I think that's also a dangerous game.
00:23:50.040
Well, what if they do this? Totally. That's what I mean. Like I, I have to be careful not to do
00:23:54.580
that too much. Otherwise I I'm playing a game, trying to control and manipulate people. Right?
00:24:02.120
Well, no, I'm saying I'm not as aware of people's perception of my motives because it doesn't matter
00:24:08.780
what they think my motives are for you. Yeah. I don't, I try not to judge people's motives.
00:24:14.460
You know, if you do something Kip that I don't approve of, like it isn't right for me. I can say,
00:24:19.360
hey, I don't approve that. Or I don't like that. Or I don't appreciate that. But I can't really make
00:24:24.340
assumptions about your motives because I just don't know. Yeah. All I can tell you is I don't
00:24:28.640
appreciate it based on my own perspective, but your motives, I don't know what they are. Unless,
00:24:34.160
unless you share with me or, you know, I have some, I'm privy to some information, but yeah,
00:24:38.240
I mean, this is the, the scripture I was quoting. It's Romans 1 16 for I am not ashamed of the gospel
00:24:43.680
of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth to the Jew first and also to
00:24:49.040
the Greek. That is, I'm not sure which translation that is. But anyway, so yeah, it's like, we don't
00:24:58.580
have to be ashamed, but also we have to be intelligent about the way that we're approaching
00:25:02.180
what we're doing here. All right. Max Naren, how do you enhance your skills mentally and physically?
00:25:09.640
How do you network more? Kind of two different questions there, but things I guess maybe he's
00:25:15.160
asking particular, what are you doing to enhance your skills mentally and physically? Cause we could
00:25:19.720
spend a whole hour talking about different ideas, I guess. Yeah. I think this is a pretty,
00:25:25.540
pretty broad question. So I can give you a broad answer, uh, figure out what you want to do
00:25:29.880
and hire coaches. We talked a little bit about that. Invest in training, uh, practice.
00:25:39.320
And that's it. I mean, there really isn't, it's a, again, it's a pretty broad and general question,
00:25:47.480
but the answer is, is very simple. It's figure out exactly what you're trying to do or be or improve
00:25:54.460
upon. That's important because if you don't know your target, you're going to miss it. And even if
00:25:59.380
you hit it, you don't know why. So you need to know what you're aiming at. And then you need to bring
00:26:04.200
the right people in the right resources and people in to improve that skillset. And then the only
00:26:08.760
other thing I would say is there's got to be some way to measure it. You know, if I want to, if I want
00:26:13.580
to become a better public speaker, for example, that's a skill that all of us could develop to
00:26:19.200
varying degrees. Uh, I, I could know that I want to do that. I could hire speaking coaches. I could, uh,
00:26:26.840
go to courses and conferences that teach about public speaking. I could practice it. I could put myself
00:26:32.840
in positions where that opportunity exists, but then I also have to be able to measure it and say,
00:26:37.920
okay, did I improve? That's where our after action review process comes in. Did I improve? Did I get
00:26:43.280
better? Uh, was I able to connect better? Did people appreciate the way I presented or the anecdotes
00:26:49.680
that I shared more than they have in the past? Did I feel better about it? You have to have that
00:26:54.500
review process, but that's a, that's a pretty simple, simple thing.
00:26:59.600
Yeah. I love your last statement. Cause I, I don't think that's what we do. Right. It's like,
00:27:04.880
oh, I want to improve mentally. So I'm going to read some books. I'm gonna listen to podcasts.
00:27:09.400
And then we're just doing it. And we're like, actually, am I getting better? Am I, am I learning?
00:27:15.840
Am I growing? Right. Is there intent around what I'm doing? If it's not, we might be just wasting a lot
00:27:22.340
of time. It might just be busy work. Right. So I think just like if you want to improve, you need to
00:27:27.540
measure it just even on the physical side, are you actually getting stronger? How's your
00:27:32.380
fitness? How's your strength? And those other things.
00:27:38.460
There's a, uh, a concept called the OODA loop, which is an acronym OODA loop. Have you heard of
00:27:43.960
this kid? Yeah, absolutely. So the OODA loop is a process that I'm describing, uh, identified by,
00:27:51.360
I believe it's Colonel John Boyd. Don't quote me on that. I think that's who it is. Air Force pilot,
00:27:58.060
um, created this, this loop or identified this loop. And it's, it's OODA. It stands for the first O is
00:28:04.760
observe. The second is orient. The third is decide. The fourth is act. So to observe your surroundings,
00:28:14.160
observe what you're good at, what you're not good at. Next is to orient yourself. Okay. Well,
00:28:20.200
I'm not a great public speaker, so I could definitely improve in that department. I'm not
00:28:23.920
a great marketer, so I can improve that department or I'm not as fit as I'd like to be. So I need to
00:28:27.760
get more fit. And then deciding is to make the decision with a course of action. I'm going to
00:28:34.440
hire this person. I'm going to bring in this resource. I'm going to do these things. And then
00:28:38.980
lastly is you need to take action, but it's called a loop. So it doesn't just stop. It's not linear.
00:28:44.920
So when you act, then you go back to observe. Okay. So you acted, now you observe,
00:28:48.940
did what I set out to do get accomplished? Did I improve? Did I get better? So the OODA loop
00:28:54.720
has been a good heuristic for me to develop skills that I, that I want to and need to develop in my
00:29:01.660
life. As far as networking goes, I think it's the same thing. A lot of people just think, oh,
00:29:07.340
just randomly, willy nilly, just meet people. I don't, I, I'm not, I'm too busy just to meet people.
00:29:12.260
I want to meet specific people. So I know what I'm trying to accomplish. I know what I offer and
00:29:18.560
what value I bring to the table. I know what I'm looking for. I know how I can serve people. I know
00:29:23.280
how those certain people can serve me. And then I make those decisions to go to conferences or
00:29:28.280
send a text or follow that person on Facebook or subscribe to their newsletter or ask them to come
00:29:35.780
spend time with us in a, you know, on a, on a hike that we're going to or whatever it may be.
00:29:41.040
But the biggest thing that people get wrong about networking is they make it all about themselves.
00:29:46.840
So if I'm trying to network with you, Kip, because I see that there's some synergy between what we
00:29:51.860
potentially could do, I come into it very selfishly and I try to get mine as quickly as possible.
00:29:58.620
That'd be like going out on a date with a woman and then saying, oh, I really like this woman.
00:30:02.340
Will you marry me? It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, hold up a sec. First,
00:30:08.340
you don't even know if you like or love me. Second, I don't know if I like or love you.
00:30:13.240
Third, we don't know if we work well together and if we're aligned in our goals. That's what
00:30:18.300
the courting process is to try to figure that out. And if it works, then you keep courting. If it
00:30:22.280
doesn't, then you go your separate ways and you find somebody else. And it's the same thing with
00:30:27.780
networking. We come in and we're like, hey, oh, Kip, oh, Kip, I'm glad we met. Can you help me with
00:30:32.080
this thing? It's like, whoa, you haven't earned the right to ask me to introduce you to somebody
00:30:38.460
or to invest in your business or whatever. Instead, and here's what everybody ought to do,
00:30:43.460
but most people don't, and it will set you apart, is always lead with value. Always. When in doubt,
00:30:50.940
always lead with value. So if I know there's some synergistic opportunities, Kip, between you and me
00:30:56.120
knowing each other, whether it's in our personal lives or professional lives, I'm really going to spend a
00:31:01.600
lot of time thinking about what you as an individual need and what I might be able to offer, whether it's
00:31:08.100
my own services or insight or even an outside introduction. So if I don't know you, Kip, but I
00:31:13.360
want to get to know you, one really, really powerful tactic is this. I'm going to send you an email.
00:31:19.500
Hey, Kip, I've been following you on social media for some time now, and I really like what you have
00:31:24.480
to say about leadership. And, uh, I know you've got this project coming up. I'm making something
00:31:30.120
up here. I know you've got this project coming up and I have a great introduction to somebody
00:31:35.140
who has done that exact same thing. And I think it'd be a really good connection for you. Would
00:31:41.460
you mind if I made that introduction? Of course, you know, I had a phone call with a friend of mine
00:31:47.600
and we were talking about some of his own personal and professional struggles and mine too.
00:31:51.800
Uh, we share these things with each other and he's coming out with a new book and I, I want to
00:31:58.400
continue to build a relationship with this person. And so I said to him, Hey man, would it help if
00:32:02.080
you came on my podcast? He's like, dude, I would love that. I'm like, good. Come on the podcast.
00:32:06.680
You like, does that guy think more highly of me now because I was willing to open up my platform
00:32:11.740
to him to sell his book or less? Of course more. And when there comes a point in time where I have a
00:32:17.420
new book or a program or something and I'm like, Hey, do you mind if I come on your podcast? I've
00:32:22.440
got this thing come. Of course he's going to say yes to that. Of course he is. Well, I don't keep
00:32:27.820
score. So I want to be clear on that, but I'm always leading with value, finding ways to be the
00:32:33.920
most valuable person in that, in that individual's life. And if I can do that, then I'll never have a
00:32:39.340
need for networking or connections. Never. Love it. Drew Sands for reels on Insta. How do you think
00:32:47.180
about your earning potential? Has it evolved over time? I don't really like, how do I, how do I think
00:32:59.320
of my earning potential? I don't, I don't really think, think about it too much. Maybe I should.
00:33:06.080
I don't know. What, do you have some thoughts on this? I think it should always be increasing,
00:33:10.500
right? Your earning potential. Otherwise I'm not growing. That's how I see it. When I think of
00:33:15.500
earning potential, it should always be higher than it was a year ago. And if it's not, that means I'm
00:33:22.880
not providing more value than who I was a year ago. So I always think it's this thing that should
00:33:29.600
always be increasing. Otherwise I use it as a measuring stick of what I, what my impact is, or
00:33:36.020
the value I bring to the table. I think you're right. I, I must do it maybe subconsciously. I
00:33:44.340
don't really spend a lot of time thinking about what my earning potential is, but if I'm going to
00:33:47.960
do a speaking, I remember the first professional speaking gig I did. And I say professional because
00:33:53.980
I got paid for doing it. I got $500. Unless it's a friend, I'm never going to go speak in public for
00:34:00.600
$500. I would speak for friends for, for, for free in a lot of cases, or if there's some other
00:34:07.200
benefit to it for me. Um, but I would never do it if a, if an organization called and said, Hey,
00:34:12.040
can you come speak? I would never do it for $500, 5,000, maybe, you know, but then there's other
00:34:17.920
people who are literally making 50,000 for a speaking engagement. So what's the difference? Well,
00:34:25.140
it's that person's ability. It's their reach. It's, it's their audience. It's their likability.
00:34:31.220
It's the authority and influence and trust that they've already built up and established. So
00:34:35.400
I think I do it subconsciously. I don't think about it in, in terms of how can I make more money?
00:34:42.080
I guess that's not true. I guess I do think about that, but I think this goes back to the OODA loop
00:34:46.660
observing where you are currently, what kind of income you want to make,
00:34:51.720
orienting yourself towards a direction, deciding which choice to make and then acting on it.
00:34:56.680
But I don't really think about earning potential too often. I mean, maybe I should, I don't either,
00:35:02.840
but I think, but we're both focused on improving constantly, which I think is a by-product of
00:35:10.040
increasing potential, but yeah. Interesting. I don't think it's a by-product. I think it's a
00:35:19.780
Yeah. Hmm. All right. Snowden Rob. Cool. What's next? After two years of hardships,
00:35:26.140
what have you learned about yourself and where do you still feel needs improvement?
00:35:32.960
Oh, this is you. So he's specifically talking about battling. Yeah. Me, right? Yeah.
00:35:39.160
Yeah. Battling with alcoholism, battling with the, uh, with the divorce. Um,
00:35:45.520
yeah, I need, I need to find, I've, I've had to find ways to
00:35:51.960
vent and, and I don't mean vent, like complain and whine and cry about my problems. I mean,
00:35:58.700
let those problems like actually address those problems and deal with them and confront them.
00:36:06.480
And those problems are mentally, uh, the stress that I sometimes have and, and the overwhelm that
00:36:14.660
I sometimes feel emotional, uh, with the insecurities that I have. And I do, I do have
00:36:20.460
insecurities, fear and doubt and abandonment issues. And, um, so sometimes I feel like I have to prove
00:36:28.180
myself to, in order to be loved. I think a lot of people, a lot of men probably feel that to some
00:36:33.680
degree. So I've, I've had to work through a lot of these, uh, through very clear and deliberate
00:36:39.840
things, you know, physical exercise is a big thing for me. Uh, I, I've started to work more closely.
00:36:47.620
I've had a therapist for a long time, but I was just going through the motions and I had an experience
00:36:52.180
and Kip, you and I talked a little bit about this offline about three weeks ago where I was
00:36:55.980
confronted with a situation that made me realize, Oh no, I actually need to take this seriously.
00:37:01.180
Yeah. And I started working with a therapist, but I, before I started working with him,
00:37:07.040
I made the commitment that I'm going to be honest with him now because that isn't something I was
00:37:12.100
really doing. Yeah. It was, it was very, it was very subdued. It was, it was tempered. I wasn't
00:37:19.140
sharing all the bullshit in the baggage. I was just sharing like maybe what he, I thought he wanted
00:37:24.380
to hear and what was like the, the culturally acceptable answer. But when I started working with my
00:37:30.360
new therapist, um, I made the decision that no, I'm just going to share. And I might sound like an
00:37:35.100
evil son of a bitch, but if I want to improve, then I have to be honest with somebody who can
00:37:40.620
actually help me navigate my feelings. My girlfriend and I were laughing the other day about, I think we
00:37:47.700
talked about this. If every single person had no brain to mouth filter, meaning we just
00:37:54.080
regurgitated everything that goes through our mind, how disgusting and horrible we, we would all
00:38:00.900
appear. Um, so yeah, that therapy has been really, really big for me working through some of my
00:38:09.780
emotional and mental baggage that I didn't realize I was carrying around. Thanks for sharing that, man.
00:38:15.140
I love this question. It's not often we get this kind of perspective on this question. So this is
00:38:21.080
from happy, ton, ton, happy, ton, ton. How can I get my man to listen and understand and see me better?
00:38:31.340
He preaches a lot. I would like for us to communicate in ways that build better connection
00:38:39.280
I don't know. So this is coming from a woman. It sounds like I don't know what you've already done. So
00:38:49.720
whatever I share, you might have already tried it. But number one, I would say that you say exactly
00:38:55.880
that to him. I think there's a big issue in communication between men and women.
00:39:03.380
Women think they're saying things, but they're not. They're just flat out. They're not.
00:39:09.280
And men interpret exactly what you say, which is why, for example, when a woman says, hey,
00:39:16.720
will you go to the grocery store and pick up this butter? He says, what kind? And you're like,
00:39:21.380
blue bunny. I don't even know the kinds of butter. Lando Lakes. Lando Lakes, that's one.
00:39:26.880
Yeah. Yeah. And you say this. Okay. And he goes, he's like, shit, unsalted or salted?
00:39:32.720
He doesn't know. Or margarine is what I would do. I'd come home with margarine and she'd be pissed.
00:39:40.200
And she'd be pissed. And she's like, I told you to get butter. And you're like, well, yeah, but
00:39:47.440
there's 17,000 things to choose from. So I just picked this one. It kind of looked like the one
00:39:52.680
that was in the refrigerator last week. That's a silly example. But ladies, if you want to communicate
00:39:58.760
more effectively with the men in your life, you have to be very clear and direct. If you say,
00:40:04.900
for example, let's say you have a bad attitude and your guy comes home from work and he's like,
00:40:12.180
what's up with you? And you're like, nothing. I'm fine. This is a hard day. He's probably going to be
00:40:18.220
like, okay. Like he knows something's wrong, but that's what you said. So like, okay, that's what
00:40:23.940
I would do. And then you get pissed off that he's not caring about what you're going through. It's
00:40:30.380
like, well, you told him not to. You said you're fine. If you actually want him to do something,
00:40:36.060
say, you know what, hun? I really appreciate you asking. I had a really hard day. The kids were
00:40:40.960
acting up. The guy at work was a dickhead. My customer fired me and it was a really hard day.
00:40:47.760
I appreciate you asking. And so what I need is a little space. Can you just take the kids on a ride
00:40:54.620
or the park for an hour? Your husband would gladly do that. Hey, you know what? I'm going to go in the
00:41:01.520
room and just like cry for a minute. Can you make dinner for us tonight? He would do that.
00:41:08.120
But don't, and I'm not accusing you because I don't know, but women are guilty of this
00:41:13.040
where they'll be very cryptic in their stuff. Like, I'm fine. It was just, that's fine.
00:41:20.240
Nothing. No big deal. Okay. Well then don't expect him to be able to read your mind on what
00:41:26.620
it is you're going through. So you might be really upset that he's not, he's preaching to you.
00:41:33.820
I'm guilty of this too, but he's preaching to you instead of listening to you.
00:41:38.420
If you'd have never told him that, and I mean those exact words, hun, I get really frustrated.
00:41:45.120
It sounds like you're preaching to me. I would just like to have a conversation without you
00:41:49.400
lecturing me. And when you do X, Y, and Z, it sounds like you're lecturing. I still love you.
00:41:54.000
I do want to hear your input, but I don't like this. That's how men communicate. And so if you
00:42:01.120
want him to change his behavior, you need to be more clear than you currently are. I can almost
00:42:06.400
with 100% certainty guarantee you're not communicating as effectively as you think you are based on the
00:42:12.320
way he needs to hear it. I think that would solve a lot of your problems right there. What do you
00:42:16.640
think though, kid? I think regardless of male or female, when I hear things like listen,
00:42:23.060
understand, and see me better, when you hear see me, that means care, understand my challenges,
00:42:34.360
understand my struggles, my desires. And often we have a tendency to expect the person to get there
00:42:45.340
when rowdy, we need to bring them in and tell them. And so there's huge power in if I'm upset or I want
00:42:55.360
my wife to understand me better, I can't be sitting back and going, well, I wish you would ask.
00:43:03.600
No, man, that's called being a victim. Waiting and hoping is a victim mindset, right? Someone that's
00:43:11.180
taking responsibility or life, they make it happen. So what does that look like from a making it happen
00:43:15.720
perspective? Hey, I'm really upset right now. I want to let you know when this occurred, I interpret
00:43:21.760
this way. I know that's kind of weird, or maybe you don't agree with it or whatever, but so you can
00:43:27.180
understand me and see me and understand how I operate. I want to let you know.
00:43:33.320
So you know who you're dealing with, the little bit of crazy that's inside me.
00:43:39.620
That's how we open up and make people or allow people to understand us better. We have to take
00:43:47.440
the action and bring them in. So when you say, hey, I want my husband to have a better connection
00:43:53.520
or see me better, then tell him. Tell him about you. Tell him what triggers you a little bit,
00:44:01.100
but be careful. And this is where we go wrong with communication. I think a lot in relationships
00:44:06.480
is we'll communicate it and then we'll argue with people's perspective. There's no arguing.
00:44:16.320
You can't argue with how someone feels. If Ryan calls me up and says, dude, I'm pissed off. I don't
00:44:22.000
go. You shouldn't be. No, he is. So I'm not going to argue. Got it. Why? Help me understand that.
00:44:29.220
We need to stop arguing with how people feel because they're sharing. And by the way,
00:44:35.560
when I argue with how you feel, what are you going to do next time? Not share.
00:44:40.640
I'm not going to share. You're going to hold that stuff in. So celebrate the share. Never
00:44:46.560
belittle the share. Otherwise you're going to get people to stop sharing.
00:44:50.840
And so those are two things that come to mind for me.
00:44:56.860
Statement by Jordan Peterson the other day is just like a icing on the top of this,
00:45:01.360
of this question. Be careful what we ask for as well. Like be careful what, what you get,
00:45:08.560
right? Because it's really easy to see what we have and go, oh, it should be like better. He needs
00:45:14.780
to be more empathetic and be careful that you don't drive that so hard that you don't want a man
00:45:21.420
that solves problems anymore. What happens now when you have a man that doesn't solve problems?
00:45:26.980
All of a sudden you're like, oh shit, I want that back. Or, and you can see this in other
00:45:33.700
relationships where you have an ambitious, you want an ambitious husband, but yet you make it hard for
00:45:38.620
him to be ambitious. What is it that you want? Be careful, right? Because otherwise we set the tone
00:45:46.540
for what we get in our relationships. And, and often you, you don't get your cake and eat it too.
00:45:53.260
So there's some power in just being grateful for who we are and who we're with and realize that those
00:46:02.160
things are difficult. It's hard to have a man that gives you tons of attention and time and is
00:46:08.440
ambitious. It's hard to do both of those, you know? And so be grateful for the things that we are
00:46:14.500
getting, you know, from our spouses at the same time. Yeah. Okay. So I like this. All right. We got
00:46:21.920
one more question, man. Good questions, man. Like there's like three, like three really good ones I
00:46:27.460
want to cover. Um, but I have a hard stop at, at 11. So let's, let's go with this 515 sign shop.
00:46:35.140
How do I move on from what I thought was the love of my life? Been struggling for years?
00:46:46.260
Well, first of all, I'm going to say something that's going to hurt. You are wrong. She is not
00:46:52.960
the love of your life. That's it. She's not clearly like you're, you're saying she's the love of your
00:47:02.340
life. And what you're actually saying is she's the only person for your entire life that you're
00:47:07.380
supposed to love. And because you've adopted that mindset, you can't let her go. I don't believe in
00:47:14.920
the one. I, in fact, I don't think I ever have believed in the one. I believe in a one.
00:47:22.220
I believe that there's a person there who you could have an incredible relationship with and
00:47:29.360
even a lifetime, lifelong relationship. But I don't think it's the only person you can have that sort
00:47:34.460
of relationship with. So from where I sit and I'm hearing you right now, you got to get over that.
00:47:41.560
She was the love of your life. She was the love of your past life. She was the love of that period
00:47:47.760
and be grateful and happy and remember the good times and let go, man. Like let go.
00:47:56.120
There are so many other incredible women out there. And I'm not saying you shouldn't mourn it. I'm not
00:48:01.280
saying you shouldn't be upset. I'm not saying you shouldn't learn lessons. I'm not even saying you
00:48:05.420
shouldn't strive to have a lifelong love with somebody. I think you should. That's what I want.
00:48:12.240
But there's somebody else out there. And because you're holding onto all of this baggage and you're
00:48:17.500
thinking about what could have been and what quote unquote should be and she's the love of your life
00:48:22.740
and there isn't another soul that none of that is true, brother. I'm telling you. When you open
00:48:28.080
yourself up to loving somebody else and open yourself up to being loved by someone else, you're
00:48:34.800
going to find out very, very quickly there are some incredible women in the world who would love
00:48:40.820
to love you, who would love to be loved by you and who you can create an incredible life with,
00:48:50.260
but you can't do it if you're hanging on to what was. Be grateful for what was. Be sad about the loss
00:48:57.680
of that, but know that was just a chapter of your life. It's time for her to move on. Maybe she already
00:49:03.400
has. It's time for you to move on. Free yourself. Allow yourself to love. Allow yourself to be loved.
00:49:10.680
Maybe do some of your own personal work. Maybe it's you don't love yourself. What can you do
00:49:16.360
physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually to start to appreciate and love yourself and offer
00:49:21.920
yourself some grace knowing that, yeah, maybe that was you. Maybe you weren't showing up the way you
00:49:28.920
could have shown up and maybe if you did, it would be different. Okay. Take those lessons into your
00:49:33.520
next relationship and be better for that person and allow that next person to be good for you.
00:49:38.520
Whether it's lifetime or the next year or the next five years, there's going to be another woman,
00:49:43.620
but you've got to be open and receptive to it. One of the most powerful things that I think for you
00:49:49.800
to consider when letting someone go is that you want what's best for them, even if it includes not
00:49:58.980
you. Because a lot of our lack of letting someone go, it's very, in a lot of cases, I'm not sure if
00:50:07.420
it's the case in this example, but it's often about me and what my needs and my wants and my desires are
00:50:16.660
and not what's really best for that person. So that's a powerful way to really let someone go.
00:50:24.220
Be happy for them. Want the best for them. You want her to move on. You want her to find an amazing
00:50:30.420
guy that she can have a relationship. If you really loved her, you want that for them. Be okay with
00:50:37.320
that. And then in conjunction with what Ryan's saying, man, I don't, I totally agree. And by the way,
00:50:44.480
Ryan, you said, I'm not sure if I've ever felt that way. I have. I used to think that I used to
00:50:49.360
think that there was the one. Absolutely. And I was, and, and it's not only is it not true, but it's
00:50:57.580
also, that's a lot of pressure to put on someone that's unfair, right? Love yourself. Think you can
00:51:10.020
be whole and complete on your own and then choose to be with someone. That's the mindset you need to
00:51:18.120
have in a relationship. In my opinion, if it's not like, Oh, I'm not complete without her. Whoa,
00:51:24.000
that's way too much. No one wants that weight of managing my own happiness and managing theirs.
00:51:32.320
And if I have a bad day, then I'm ruining his life. Like that's too much weight to put on anybody.
00:51:38.560
Be whole and complete on your own, man. Be happy with who you are. Feel great about it. And then
00:51:45.700
choose to be with a great woman. And they're contrary to what all the guys on the internet will
00:51:53.400
say. There are incredible, incredible women out there. They're there. They're ready for you. Not to say
00:52:00.100
they don't have their own learning and growth. They do, but they are willing. There is a woman
00:52:04.260
out there who is right for you. Not the only one, but a woman out there who is definitely right for
00:52:09.960
you and you're right for her. So you got to free yourself to be able to make a decision. That's what
00:52:14.200
it is. Make, you got to decide. I'm today, you have to make that decision today. Like I'm going to let
00:52:20.120
go. I'm going to, I'm going to be grateful for what we had and I'm going to let her go mentally,
00:52:25.220
emotionally, physically, we're done here. Put a, put a stick, a fork in it. It's done.
00:52:32.040
Now move on. Good advice. I have a hard stop. So connect with Mr. Mickler on the socials at Ryan
00:52:39.300
Mickler. Iron Council's opening up next month. Order of man.com slash iron council to learn more.
00:52:46.560
And as always, you know, follow us on Facebook and YouTube. See Ryan's pretty face in that good
00:52:55.420
lighting. YouTube.com slash order of man. It's not, it's not a pretty face. It's good lighting.
00:53:01.000
It makes it look pretty. I don't know. Someone, someone made a post. Someone made a comment on
00:53:04.520
social media. They're like, Oh, you and Ryan look similar. And I, I made a comment. I'm like,
00:53:08.600
that's the big, that's the best compliment you could ever give Ryan.
00:53:11.980
Yeah. I'm not sure if you saw it. I was like, that's funny. That's true. I think I didn't think
00:53:19.320
you were going to say that, but I was like, wait, I was like, really liked where that was going. And
00:53:22.520
then he said, compliment to me. I'm like, Oh, that isn't where I thought you're going to take that.
00:53:28.120
Awesome. All right, guys. Appreciate you. Great questions today. As always,
00:53:31.280
hopefully we gave you something to consider. Go out there, take action and become a man you are meant to be.
00:53:37.420
Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your
00:53:41.760
life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.