Order of Man


Learning to Let Go, Never Offering Unsolicited Advice, and Getting Good at Saying, 'I Don't Know'' ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING


Episode Stats


People

Also mentioned:
George Sykes Khaled Ryan Partain Josh McDermott Khalid Hamir Timothy chapter Ryan Michler John Davis Simon Sinek Tony Erzy Tony Urzi Ryan Nick Hey Kip Katie Matt Paul

Harmful content

Misogyny

10

sentences flagged

Toxicity

23

sentences flagged

Hate speech

10

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, I sit down with my good friend, Kip, to talk about what it means to be a man and why it's important to have a man in your life. Kip and I talk about the importance of being a man of action and how to be resilient when life knocks you down.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 There's a very simple phrase that, Khaled, you should adopt in your life as potentially part of your mantra.
00:00:06.260 There it is.
00:00:07.080 Three words.
00:00:08.260 I don't know.
00:00:10.960 I don't know.
00:00:12.440 And then just be comfortable with that.
00:00:14.240 So, Kip, your wife asked me about some questions, and my response is, I don't know.
00:00:20.860 And learning to be okay with I don't know and I don't have the answers, and life is better.
00:00:26.240 I have a better attitude, and my relationships are stronger, and I'm much more resilient and adaptable as things come up.
00:00:34.540 You're a man of action.
00:00:36.180 You live life to the fullest.
00:00:37.620 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.
00:00:40.340 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.
00:00:45.080 You are not easily deterred or defeated.
00:00:47.360 Rugged.
00:00:48.100 Resilient.
00:00:49.080 Strong.
00:00:50.120 This is your life.
00:00:51.200 This is who you are.
00:00:52.620 This is who you will become at the end of the day.
00:00:55.220 And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
00:01:01.680 Kip, what's up, man?
00:01:02.700 Long time no see.
00:01:03.760 You didn't have enough of me over the weekend, so you decided you wanted to show up for another round here this morning, huh?
00:01:08.220 Yep.
00:01:08.740 Sign up for some more.
00:01:09.960 Some more Mickler.
00:01:12.280 It was funny.
00:01:15.320 I was just having some conversations about how often, well, when men connect and talk.
00:01:21.640 Have you noticed?
00:01:22.500 And I don't really realize it because I'm a guy, so I don't realize it.
00:01:25.820 We don't really connect on deep things.
00:01:29.880 You know, like people say, so how's Kip?
00:01:31.380 I'm like, yeah, he seems pretty good.
00:01:32.920 What's going on with his kids?
00:01:34.400 I don't know.
00:01:35.560 What's going on with his wife?
00:01:37.300 I don't know.
00:01:38.540 What's going on with work?
00:01:40.140 I don't know.
00:01:41.020 Well, how do you know he's good?
00:01:42.240 I don't know.
00:01:42.540 He just seemed good.
00:01:43.200 Like, we had a good conversation.
00:01:44.960 And then it's like, well, what'd you talk about?
00:01:47.160 I don't know.
00:01:48.320 Just random stuff.
00:01:50.040 Yeah.
00:01:50.220 Right.
00:01:50.540 Yeah.
00:01:50.860 It's so hilarious versus women. 1.00
00:01:52.720 You know, they find out about their dog's, you know, disease and illness and their kids
00:01:59.120 and what they're dealing with and what crushes they have and who their bullies are and what
00:02:04.160 their spouses are doing for work and what their work is like. 0.98
00:02:06.760 And it's just hilarious the difference between men and women when it comes to how we converse. 0.66
00:02:12.200 Totally.
00:02:13.100 Well, I used to always joke around that on the jiu-jitsu mats, you get to know people
00:02:17.680 really well without talking with them, right?
00:02:22.340 Yeah.
00:02:23.140 The individual that's a little passive aggressive or maybe is even dealing with some stress in
00:02:29.460 their life, it kind of shows up.
00:02:31.980 And for years, I would train and I'm like, oh, I really like this guy.
00:02:36.220 He's like, he's a great guy.
00:02:37.340 And then my wife would ask me like, oh, does he have kids?
00:02:40.800 And I'm like, I don't know.
00:02:43.500 Is he married?
00:02:44.280 I think so.
00:02:45.080 And she's like, you don't know him.
00:02:46.560 And I'm like, yeah, I do.
00:02:48.460 I actually do know him.
00:02:50.000 I just don't know all those things.
00:02:51.880 But I know him, which is just wild to think about.
00:02:56.780 I've heard it said best, if I could surmise it into one sentence, it's basically that men
00:03:02.140 connect directionally, whereas women will connect relationally. 1.00
00:03:06.100 So women will literally, if you see them conversing, they're literally sitting around something. 1.00
00:03:12.780 Maybe it's a kitchen counter or they've got their chairs situated, or maybe they're on
00:03:17.220 the couch and they're all looking at each other and it's around.
00:03:20.800 Whereas men tend to be more linear, not only in the way that we line up, but also the way 0.91
00:03:26.400 that we approach life.
00:03:27.760 So it's shoulder to shoulder or back to back.
00:03:31.020 And we're either focusing on a common enemy or towards a common objective.
00:03:36.180 So you're right.
00:03:37.480 Men figure things out by doing and women figure things out by being. 1.00
00:03:42.320 But I think that leads to a really good point.
00:03:44.960 And that is that more men, especially those guys who don't feel like they have anybody in
00:03:49.720 their lives, need to stop focusing on how do I build relationships the way a woman would 1.00
00:03:54.760 and start engaging in life, whether it's jujitsu or the gym or a business conference or something
00:04:01.060 like our brotherhood, the Iron Council, where they have accountability.
00:04:04.780 You're going to build friendship and camaraderie and accountability with men, but you're going
00:04:10.060 to do it in a way that men do it, which is going to resonate more deeply with you, which
00:04:14.560 ultimately leads to a lessening of frustration when it comes to male friendships and connection.
00:04:20.740 I think that's the biggest issue.
00:04:21.980 Too many guys are trying to do it like women, and then they're frustrated, obviously, because
00:04:26.560 it doesn't work.
00:04:27.520 And they're like, well, see, you can't find any guys to do life with.
00:04:30.500 Yeah, you're just doing it wrong.
00:04:31.720 Just do it correctly, and you'll have much more success.
00:04:35.060 Well, I mean, just think about through our pasts, how many times have you built strong
00:04:39.780 connection with another man through doing?
00:04:43.580 The answer is always, whether it's running or race together.
00:04:47.920 Yeah, doing sports together.
00:04:49.640 I mean, it's where you kind of learn about the individual and how they show up in life,
00:04:56.740 and if you align or not, is kind of how they play the game or how they run, the kind of
00:05:02.260 grit they have.
00:05:03.340 I mean, that's where it's formed.
00:05:04.640 It's wild.
00:05:06.800 You know, one of the things that I think about, and then we'll get to some questions, is for
00:05:10.780 most men, male camaraderie and brotherhood ends after high school sports or military service.
00:05:16.900 So, and there might be some that happens maybe in college, in a fraternity, something like
00:05:22.860 that.
00:05:24.220 But outside of that, that all ends once you become an adult or once you finish your military
00:05:30.200 service.
00:05:30.660 I would say LEOs in general, because they're dealing with difficult circumstances that
00:05:35.400 require men to band together in the act of doing.
00:05:38.640 But yeah, I mean, unless you're diligent about creating those connections outside of those
00:05:45.360 few arenas, you're probably going to do life alone, and that's part of the reason you're
00:05:49.720 not feeling the way you ought to feel or want to feel.
00:05:52.860 Yeah.
00:05:53.460 Well, and that's, I mean, this is why the Iron Council is so awesome, right?
00:05:57.100 In which we're going to fill the questions from.
00:05:59.480 So our exclusive brotherhood, DIC.
00:06:01.080 So George Sykes is up first.
00:06:04.020 What are you doing daily to strengthen your faith?
00:06:06.760 How can I pray for you both?
00:06:10.300 I wish I was better at this than I am.
00:06:14.060 I'm not.
00:06:15.480 I, and people say, are you struggling in your faith?
00:06:17.940 I don't really feel like I'm struggling in it.
00:06:20.420 I feel pretty good.
00:06:21.840 I believe in God.
00:06:22.700 I believe in higher power.
00:06:24.400 I believe that I have a divine purpose for being on this earth, but I don't, and maybe
00:06:29.280 I need to correct that.
00:06:30.060 I don't really do anything on a daily basis.
00:06:32.020 I pray often.
00:06:34.180 I am reading, I guess I am reading the Bible.
00:06:37.100 So I guess that's one thing.
00:06:39.480 Some of those just seem like primary answers is what we would call them, where it's like
00:06:45.660 the basics.
00:06:46.800 Pray and read the Bible.
00:06:49.040 And that's good.
00:06:49.940 I think that is good.
00:06:50.880 But as far as above and beyond that, I don't really have a practice that I feel deeply connected
00:06:55.800 to.
00:06:56.180 And then I would say on the second part of that question, whenever anybody says they want
00:07:04.120 to pray for me, I welcome that.
00:07:06.240 Please pray for me.
00:07:07.560 But that's for you to determine.
00:07:09.180 Listen, you probably recognize things that you could see in me, whether it's a lack of
00:07:14.000 patience or maybe I'm agitated or maybe you don't even agree with a particular stance I
00:07:21.720 have on a topic and you want to pray to open my mind to new possibilities or new insight.
00:07:26.340 I'm receptive to all of that.
00:07:28.860 So, but that's for you to decide.
00:07:31.300 I don't really have any pressing concerns that fortunately, knock on wood, that I feel
00:07:36.340 like I need prayers for today.
00:07:38.100 But yeah, that's for you to decide.
00:07:39.400 And I will take all that I can get.
00:07:41.000 Absolutely.
00:07:42.320 Yeah.
00:07:42.880 I love that.
00:07:44.220 You know, and I love, and George, you have to say this, right?
00:07:47.400 I do love how I was raised.
00:07:52.180 We don't go out of our way enough to like pray on behalf of other people, or at least
00:07:57.980 you do, but you don't know about it.
00:07:59.660 And, and I had a wild experience.
00:08:03.040 I think it's wild, but maybe it's not that wild, but I've since joining the IC, I remember
00:08:08.000 years ago, maybe I'm old man here wanting to do my storytelling.
00:08:11.540 So years ago, we would have a main event and, um, I probably presented on something, right?
00:08:20.900 So there, some guys probably felt like there was some form of connection, right?
00:08:25.220 Through the conversation and towards the end of the event, a particular individual came
00:08:30.160 up to me, walked up to me, put his hands on my, on my head and just started praying for
00:08:39.000 me.
00:08:40.100 Without warning, just did it.
00:08:41.980 Yep.
00:08:42.160 Just walked up to me, put his hands on my head and prayed out loud.
00:08:47.120 And I was like, that was awesome.
00:08:51.500 And, and I loved it because why I felt loved, I felt appreciated.
00:08:56.900 I felt like this person was, was just not just speaking on my behalf, but was also speaking
00:09:03.300 into me at the same time.
00:09:05.040 And so George, I, I love the question, right?
00:09:08.140 And, and maybe that's what the world needs a little bit more of is people praying for
00:09:13.400 other people, right?
00:09:14.620 And in worst case, it's, it's just so they have peace of mind.
00:09:18.480 Maybe them realizing their, their divine potential, um, and, and helping each other, uh, show up
00:09:26.640 in a way that we can impact others for good.
00:09:28.700 And I mean, what did that just be nice if we all had that mindset?
00:09:31.960 So thanks George.
00:09:32.980 That's awesome.
00:09:33.500 Well, I like the, um, and I hope it didn't come across as like, I, I like, I'm receptive
00:09:40.020 and open to those prayers.
00:09:41.240 So I hope it didn't come across to George as if I'm not.
00:09:43.120 You have no request currently.
00:09:45.020 Yeah.
00:09:45.480 Right.
00:09:45.880 And I, and I might, you asked me next week and I might, you know, maybe something happens
00:09:49.720 to one of my kids or I'm dealing with something that I need some, some additional prayers
00:09:53.280 and divine inspiration on.
00:09:54.800 I don't right now, but you know, the other thing I wanted to say and just articulate a
00:09:58.960 little bit more, and I think this is underscored in the story you just shared, men are assertive
00:10:04.480 and assertiveness isn't asking for permission.
00:10:09.500 It's recognizing, acknowledging, and then doing.
00:10:12.980 And so this gentleman who came up to you after the event, he recognized something.
00:10:18.080 I don't, I don't know what he said.
00:10:19.860 I don't know what he prayed for or prayed over you, but he obviously recognized something
00:10:24.020 and he felt so inspired and compelled that he just went and did it without your permission.
00:10:28.840 Now, if you're going to touch other men, make sure it's somewhat appropriate before, you
00:10:33.700 know, getting their permission, you know, if it's a non jujitsu guy, yeah, ask first, but
00:10:38.120 that's right.
00:10:40.060 Maybe it was after the jujitsu class and he felt comfortable touching you, you know, so
00:10:43.920 I could touch Kip wherever I want. 0.93
00:10:45.500 But, you know, I think the point is, I agree with what you said about maybe we do need more
00:10:56.200 men praying over and for people, and maybe we also need men who say, you know what, I'm
00:11:01.320 not going to ask.
00:11:02.080 Here's what I think you need, and I'm going to pray for this on your behalf.
00:11:05.580 I actually have two friends who I talk with once every month or two over the phone, and
00:11:12.140 every time I talk with them, when we're done, I'm like, hey, good to talk with you.
00:11:15.300 They're like, hey, can I pray for you?
00:11:17.580 And they pray for me and with me on the phone, and it's always welcomed.
00:11:22.000 A lot of the times it's pretty generic if I'm being honest, but occasionally there's
00:11:27.420 something where they really see that I've had a couple experiences where they've said
00:11:32.480 something, I'm like, well, how did they know about that?
00:11:35.320 Or how did they know I was confronting that or dealing with a situation?
00:11:38.960 Because it's not anything I was vocal about, I think that's part of the inspiration that
00:11:43.540 comes when we're open and receptive to the Spirit, and then have a willingness and desire
00:11:48.020 to share it.
00:11:49.240 Yeah, I love it.
00:11:50.600 You know, to answer George's question just really quick, you know, daily strength, you
00:11:55.180 know what I've found is, and I steal this from you, right?
00:11:59.140 The quality of your life is determined by the questions you ask, right?
00:12:01.920 And so if I'm feasting on Scripture, I'm going to find answers to questions, and they're
00:12:10.140 going to be through the conduit of gospel principles.
00:12:14.880 Now, if I'm also asking questions, but I'm feasting elsewhere, guess where I'm going to
00:12:18.920 find the answers?
00:12:20.520 In those other areas.
00:12:22.580 So it matters what fruit you're eating along with the questions you have, right?
00:12:28.600 And some of them may be more inspired and less beneficial, right?
00:12:33.540 Depending on where I'm feasting or getting information from.
00:12:38.680 And so I'm definitely in a place in my life where gospel principles and Scripture study,
00:12:46.060 I find highly enlightening because I'm finding truth in it in whatever it is that I'm doing.
00:12:52.760 So that's the main thing for me.
00:12:57.020 Yeah, I like that.
00:12:58.180 I once heard garbage in, garbage out, and I think that's exactly what you're saying.
00:13:02.580 You can't make something wonderful.
00:13:04.820 We're not alchemists, right?
00:13:06.340 You can't make something wonderful out of horrible material.
00:13:09.640 It just doesn't work.
00:13:11.320 Yeah.
00:13:11.800 All right, John Davies, with your marathon, Ryan, coming up in November, what new insights
00:13:17.560 are you starting to enjoy about your training?
00:13:21.140 I mean, spoken like a true runner, asking me what insights and it's like, I don't know,
00:13:26.800 John, if you know me very well.
00:13:28.260 We've known each other for a decade at this point.
00:13:30.620 But no, this is not an enjoyable experience for me, okay?
00:13:34.120 So I appreciate that you find it enjoyable.
00:13:37.000 Stop trying to make it sound like I'm going to enjoy it.
00:13:37.340 No, you know what?
00:13:41.720 Okay, let me think about this here for a second.
00:13:43.860 So first, it's hard.
00:13:45.160 It is difficult.
00:13:48.340 Physical insights I'm learning is my electrolytes are off.
00:13:52.320 I get cramps.
00:13:53.520 I cramp really bad.
00:13:54.540 I think my hydration is not where it needs to be.
00:13:56.560 My electrolyte intake is not where it needs to be.
00:13:58.880 And then also my nutrition, which I've really been focused on over the past 30 days or so.
00:14:04.220 Maybe not even that, 20 days.
00:14:06.000 And I'm down five pounds right now from a nutrition perspective, not from anything else,
00:14:12.420 even though I am exercise and training.
00:14:14.580 But so that's been insightful.
00:14:19.680 Another thing that's been insightful is I'm just amazed what the human body can do.
00:14:24.620 The human body is amazing.
00:14:26.380 You know, you can look at people and there are some outliers, but you can look at people
00:14:30.420 and you can say, oh, that guy does this.
00:14:33.060 That guy does that.
00:14:34.260 That guy does that.
00:14:35.340 Like you can see a power lifter.
00:14:37.380 You can see what a runner looks like.
00:14:39.280 You can see a cyclist.
00:14:40.220 You can see a swimmer.
00:14:41.080 I was at Walmart last night and I walked by.
00:14:43.420 I'm like, that guy does jujitsu.
00:14:45.920 And in my mind, I was like, I stopped for a second.
00:14:48.640 I'm like, I wonder why I thought that.
00:14:51.320 Like what about the way that he moved made me think that he did jujitsu?
00:14:54.940 And what was interesting is I was walking and he turned around.
00:14:57.940 He had an origin shirt on.
00:14:59.600 So I knew, I knew it was even corroborated even more.
00:15:02.520 So I'm like, see, I knew.
00:15:04.500 So it is interesting.
00:15:06.580 But what that tells me is that the human body is capable of some amazing things.
00:15:13.000 And the adaptability that we have when it comes to building cardio, stamina, muscle, flexibility, fill in the blank with your exercise of choice is actually really incredible.
00:15:23.500 And that gives me hope that although I probably will never be an ultra endurance athlete, mostly because I have no desire to be, I can actually make myself better and more capable in a physical way than I've ever been before.
00:15:38.440 And that is, that is inspiring to me because it shows me, even gives me a glimpse of what is possible and what I've left on the table up to this point, which is pretty crazy to think about too.
00:15:52.300 So the other insight is that I, you know, I, I, I am finding a little bit of joy in some music, 80s classic rock.
00:16:01.820 Mostly when I get running, I find a good beat and that actually helps me get through some things.
00:16:07.600 Um, yeah, being able to run without music is not a thing for me.
00:16:12.780 So that's been helpful too.
00:16:15.720 Yeah.
00:16:16.420 It reduced the noise of that internal dialogue of why am I doing this? 1.00
00:16:21.160 This is stupid. 0.99
00:16:22.060 I have always heard a great quote that, um, the difference between a runner and someone that doesn't consider themselves a runner is the, um, runner doesn't listen to the voice. 1.00
00:16:36.160 That's it.
00:16:37.680 Hmm.
00:16:38.700 Yeah.
00:16:38.940 They don't listen to the voice of why am I doing this?
00:16:41.960 Right.
00:16:42.440 Yeah.
00:16:42.880 I would agree with that.
00:16:44.380 Yeah.
00:16:44.660 It's, it's just about going another mile, another mile, another mile.
00:16:48.660 And I usually say, I'll stop up there.
00:16:51.020 And then when I get up there, I'm like, no, I'll stop up there.
00:16:53.400 I never stop where I want to stop.
00:16:56.800 Um, there's a great quote by Socrates.
00:16:59.220 I think it's attributed to, it says, and I, and I don't have this memorized, but I'm just pulling it up.
00:17:03.820 No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training.
00:17:06.840 It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which the body is capable.
00:17:12.160 I think that's pretty interesting.
00:17:13.200 And I'm trying to find ways to push outside of what is currently comfortable for me into new arenas.
00:17:19.960 Not because I have a great desire to do it necessarily, but I just want to see if I can.
00:17:25.540 Yeah.
00:17:26.140 Yeah.
00:17:26.480 I love it.
00:17:27.100 All right.
00:17:27.820 Khalid Hamir.
00:17:28.960 So stop asking me questions about running.
00:17:31.320 John.
00:17:31.760 And Katie's, I'm never going to like it.
00:17:33.840 So stop trying to make me like it.
00:17:35.700 That's right.
00:17:37.400 All right.
00:17:38.140 Khalid Hamir.
00:17:38.880 I have a hard time letting things go in all categories, emotionally detaching from people
00:17:44.420 in life, girl that I'm hung up, hung up on who I used to be with recently.
00:17:50.340 And we work together and also letting go of things that I know are overwhelming me on my
00:17:56.060 to-do list.
00:17:56.720 When in reality, I can't do it, do it all.
00:17:59.860 An example of this is writing my first battle plan.
00:18:02.680 I'm having a hard time choosing a couple objectives and tactics where in reality, there are several
00:18:09.040 areas I want to improve in, which are all in my vision.
00:18:13.060 What are your best tips on navigating this?
00:18:16.480 Well, a couple of things come to mind.
00:18:18.540 So I really think when it comes to the battle plan or planning in general, just doing life
00:18:22.760 in general, you have two camps.
00:18:24.620 You have overthinkers and you have overdoers.
00:18:26.960 Sometimes, if you were to look at the spectrum of that, I'm an overdoer.
00:18:31.260 So I will think less about doing things than maybe I ought to, just by default.
00:18:36.400 So for me, what that ends up doing is sometimes I can leave a little bit of a wake of collateral
00:18:41.140 damage in my path because I don't take into consideration how other people might be impacted
00:18:45.800 by my actions.
00:18:47.800 Sometimes I end up spending more time and money and energy than needed because I don't really
00:18:54.780 think about or strategize how to do it.
00:18:56.860 I just wing it and figure it out along the way.
00:19:00.060 And my natural inclination is to say, well, I'd rather lose a little bit of money or time
00:19:04.660 actively working towards something than lose a lot of money and time not working towards
00:19:09.340 it at all.
00:19:09.920 But that's my own personality.
00:19:11.980 So I've never been really much of an overthinker.
00:19:15.780 And then on the other side of the scale, you have overthinkers.
00:19:19.400 And overthinkers, they run the risk.
00:19:21.620 Yeah, they run the risk of spending too much time on something and never doing it.
00:19:30.560 Perfectionism.
00:19:31.420 And then ultimately, the way I see it, and you correct me if I'm wrong, Kip, because you're 0.95
00:19:34.440 saying self-proclaimed overthinker, is then you never have a product or a service or a
00:19:40.880 thing, even if it's a mission or a movement or a message, to share with anybody.
00:19:46.400 So nobody benefits from your insight, from your hard work, from your diligence.
00:19:50.920 And what a shame.
00:19:52.260 What a shame that you have so many wonderful ideas and so much potential and it's all trapped
00:19:57.700 inside because I was going to say you're being selfish.
00:20:01.060 I don't think most people are being selfish, at least consciously, but I do think there's
00:20:06.800 some selfishness in that because you're afraid.
00:20:09.540 You want to make sure you get it right.
00:20:10.720 You want to make sure people see it right. 0.99
00:20:12.200 You want to make sure it's perfect so you don't look like a fool. 0.99
00:20:15.020 Not looking good. 0.99
00:20:15.840 Yeah.
00:20:16.100 Yeah.
00:20:16.800 Yeah.
00:20:17.520 So that's one thing.
00:20:18.540 I'd love to hear your take on that.
00:20:19.680 I have a few others, but I'd love to hear your take on that.
00:20:22.360 So the other day, me, you, and Matt were coming back from the gym when we talked about
00:20:26.580 our favorite words.
00:20:27.660 And one of the words that I said was the word heuristic.
00:20:32.620 I love that word because it's the word I need to remind myself about that, that I don't
00:20:39.720 know that.
00:20:41.800 And it's arrogant of me to assume that I can plan the thing that's outside my realm of
00:20:47.040 understanding that requires action on my part to learn.
00:20:51.500 So to his question specifically, you're not, you know, we use the analogy of some,
00:20:57.660 understanding the mountain, right?
00:20:58.720 Until I get over the first ridge, I don't know.
00:21:02.580 You don't know.
00:21:05.200 And, and to think that I know the route up the mountain analytically is, is a little arrogant
00:21:11.760 on my part.
00:21:12.980 The reality of it is, is I can plan all I want, but until I take action, until I get to the
00:21:18.900 first ridge, I'm not in a space of true knowledge and wisdom to be able to get to the summit of
00:21:25.600 the mountain.
00:21:26.620 And that's why I love that word so much, because it's a reminder to myself that Kip, you can
00:21:31.860 plan all you want, but your plan's not true because it's based upon your current level of
00:21:37.460 understanding.
00:21:38.000 And you need a heightened level of understanding require, which requires some action on your
00:21:42.980 part first.
00:21:44.120 And so that's, that's where I push back against my natural tendency of overanalyzing.
00:21:51.300 And, and to your point, the overanalyzer and it, it, it stops us from progressing, right?
00:21:59.300 And taking action.
00:22:00.100 And so now do I still plan?
00:22:02.740 Do I still try to?
00:22:03.680 Yes, but it's, I got to be quicker in taking action and a little bit slower with the perfect
00:22:09.600 plan.
00:22:09.900 And also realize to your point, Ryan, what, what's that found in perfection?
00:22:15.940 Like sometimes perfection is about who progress yourself.
00:22:20.000 No, it's about myself.
00:22:21.380 Right.
00:22:21.740 I had a coach tell me years ago, it was a really good example.
00:22:26.200 I was putting leadership content together.
00:22:27.940 Right.
00:22:28.820 And, and I'm like, I have this ultimate curriculum for leadership.
00:22:32.440 And I, I presented the summary to him and he looks at it and he says, Kip, is it complete?
00:22:40.260 Is it perfect?
00:22:41.760 Does it have everything in it?
00:22:43.500 And I'm like, yeah, it does.
00:22:45.060 And he's all got it.
00:22:46.840 So you have a choice, have it be perfect or have it be used, but you can't do both.
00:22:52.700 Yeah.
00:22:53.740 Because it is so large and so complex that no one will listen to you.
00:22:59.660 No one will adopt it.
00:23:01.080 So good job building something perfect that will have minimal adoption or is your objective
00:23:08.320 is to cause change and impact in people.
00:23:11.720 If that's the case, guess what?
00:23:13.600 It doesn't require quote unquote perfect.
00:23:16.160 In fact, that ideal state hinders usage.
00:23:20.160 So I lost sight.
00:23:22.740 What was the priority?
00:23:24.600 The badge of the perfect or was it about causing change in people?
00:23:29.960 And those two things were in conflict with one another.
00:23:33.920 Yeah.
00:23:35.100 I mean, I think that's well said, you know, at the end of the day, I think somebody like
00:23:38.740 yourself and maybe Khaled, who's an overthinker.
00:23:41.680 Maybe it sounds like based on what he's saying needs to stop thinking as much.
00:23:45.740 That's, that's the answer.
00:23:46.920 Just pick.
00:23:47.860 You said you had all these different object.
00:23:49.640 Pick good.
00:23:50.100 Pick one.
00:23:50.640 Which one?
00:23:51.240 I don't know.
00:23:52.060 Any, many, many, mo for all I care.
00:23:53.640 Just pick one because it's only 90 days.
00:23:57.620 And then in 91 days, you can pick the other one if you want, or you can double down on
00:24:01.700 the one you're currently doing if that one's resonating with you.
00:24:05.140 But it's not, it's not the end of the world.
00:24:07.320 That's easy for me to say as an overdoer, but as an overdoer, I need to stop and start
00:24:11.360 maybe thinking a little bit more.
00:24:13.200 So the answer is different than it is for him.
00:24:16.600 One other thing I want to say about this is I really was, was afflicted with this issue.
00:24:22.280 Um, and I've been working through it for the past several years of wanting to control
00:24:27.320 everything, like making sure that everything was within my control.
00:24:31.780 And I had all the variables figured out and lined out.
00:24:34.940 And if this happened, I was going to do that.
00:24:36.480 And this happened, I was going to do that.
00:24:37.760 And that happened.
00:24:38.280 I was going to do this.
00:24:39.140 And I wanted people to behave the way I wanted them to behave.
00:24:41.880 And I wanted the weather to cooperate with me.
00:24:44.100 And I wanted, you know, no bad things to happen.
00:24:47.100 I was driving down the road the other day from a trip and, uh, my tire blew out. 0.96
00:24:52.760 And I think three years ago, I would have lost my shit because it, it made me late and 0.98
00:24:57.400 I was supposed to pick up my kids and then I couldn't pick them up on time. 0.98
00:25:00.860 And, and this time it was like, yeah, you know, don't get me wrong. 0.97
00:25:05.220 It sucks.
00:25:05.580 I don't want to change a tire on the highway, but I got it done. 0.95
00:25:08.100 And there was a, uh, a highway patrol officer who actually pulled over and blocked a little
00:25:12.720 bit of traffic for me.
00:25:13.640 But, you know, all of that was out outside of my control and it's fine.
00:25:17.760 And I've learned to let go of the things that are not within my control.
00:25:22.680 And I'll, I'll tell you how I did that.
00:25:24.880 There's a very simple phrase that Khaled, you should adopt in your life as potentially 0.75
00:25:29.960 part of your mantra.
00:25:31.080 Here it is.
00:25:31.960 Three words.
00:25:33.280 I don't know.
00:25:35.700 I don't know.
00:25:38.600 And then just be comfortable with that.
00:25:40.700 So Kip, your wife was asking me about my ex-wife, uh, over the weekend.
00:25:45.240 And there was a couple of questions.
00:25:47.660 It was fun.
00:25:48.260 It was awesome.
00:25:49.820 And she asked me about some questions and my response is, I don't know.
00:25:55.860 And she, and she said, well, I wonder why I'm, I, I don't know.
00:26:00.320 Well, have you asked her?
00:26:02.240 No.
00:26:02.720 Why?
00:26:03.140 It's not my business.
00:26:04.420 I don't know.
00:26:05.420 I, I don't know.
00:26:07.140 And I've learned to be, I've learned to be okay with that.
00:26:11.060 Another scenario I might think about when it comes to the, I don't know is, um, you're
00:26:16.120 laughing because you, you know, these conversations, but another scenario is, you know, like a lot
00:26:22.840 of people will plan a, plan a trip.
00:26:25.880 So you and I planned a trip with our families to the lake this weekend and it would have
00:26:30.320 been very easy to say, well, what if the weather doesn't hold out?
00:26:33.500 I don't know.
00:26:34.520 I guess we'll confront that and deal with it when it happens.
00:26:36.940 We'll do games inside the house or something.
00:26:39.460 But barring some catastrophic event, Khaled, I know you, you're smart enough.
00:26:44.780 You're intelligent enough.
00:26:45.660 You're well-spoken enough.
00:26:46.640 You seem like you're a successful guy.
00:26:48.140 I know you're driven and ambitious.
00:26:50.060 You're going to figure it out.
00:26:51.720 You really are.
00:26:52.600 And so this woman who's, it sounds like works at the office with him, maybe stop trying 0.95
00:26:59.360 to pigeonhole that relationship into what you want it to be and just say, you know what?
00:27:02.820 I don't know.
00:27:03.220 I don't know what comes of this.
00:27:04.700 Maybe this is the end.
00:27:05.580 Maybe it isn't.
00:27:06.180 Maybe this is the beginning.
00:27:07.380 Maybe nothing ever happens.
00:27:08.800 Maybe I move on.
00:27:09.600 Maybe she moves on.
00:27:10.780 Maybe somebody else comes to the office, maybe whatever.
00:27:13.120 And learning to be okay with, I don't know and I don't have the answers and just embracing
00:27:19.540 the excitement of it.
00:27:24.740 Yeah.
00:27:25.480 Like the curiosity of not knowing what's going to happen instead of trying to control everything.
00:27:33.220 And that's not easy for me to say because I am a control freak.
00:27:36.460 But I'll tell you, it's been liberating and life is better.
00:27:39.820 I have a better attitude and my relationships are stronger and I'm much more resilient and
00:27:44.660 adaptable as things come up.
00:27:46.260 Yeah.
00:27:47.440 I have to say this because I just had a breakthrough in my own thought process.
00:27:51.140 Because the value of I don't know is you stop the internal dialogue of like festering on it.
00:28:01.440 When I hear about hung up on someone, the hung up is the constant internal interpretations
00:28:09.560 and guests and stories and meaning of, oh, she did this.
00:28:14.680 It must mean that.
00:28:15.720 And you trying to figure out conclusion to things versus she looked at me this way.
00:28:22.560 I wonder why.
00:28:23.360 I don't know.
00:28:24.400 Move on.
00:28:26.300 Stop.
00:28:27.360 That's a good one.
00:28:28.700 The mental jujitsu of guessing and it's all made up anyway.
00:28:34.580 It's all interpretation anyway.
00:28:37.840 And maybe that's that I don't know is a form of kind of letting go.
00:28:41.600 Just like I'm not going to waste brain cycles trying to guess and possibly create a perception
00:28:48.360 that is not true, that drives my behaviors, that will create a confirmation bias in regards
00:28:56.840 to how I act towards people.
00:28:58.620 I mean, man, it's powerful.
00:29:00.300 Leadership?
00:29:00.860 Oh, I got to underperform an employee.
00:29:03.140 I wonder why.
00:29:04.020 Guess what?
00:29:04.440 You don't know.
00:29:05.960 Go have a conversation.
00:29:07.840 Don't assume.
00:29:09.880 Right?
00:29:10.060 There's some power in the, I actually don't know.
00:29:13.420 I like it.
00:29:13.900 Well, there's a concept.
00:29:15.900 I learned this years and years ago.
00:29:17.320 It's called cognitive distortions.
00:29:19.100 And so we as humans have these little things that we do, these little tricks to protect
00:29:23.400 ourselves.
00:29:24.380 And for me, that manifested as black and white thinking, meaning it's either this or that.
00:29:29.840 And I still have that.
00:29:30.720 People who listen to the podcast for any amount of time know it's either this or that.
00:29:33.980 There's no gray area in my life.
00:29:35.520 It's this or it's that.
00:29:36.620 Um, the other one that manifests for me is catastrophizing.
00:29:40.700 So an example of that, like Khaled's talking about, or what you said is, well, she looked
00:29:45.840 at me this way.
00:29:46.480 And so what you think is, oh, she must be mad at me.
00:29:50.140 She must feel sorry for me because she found a new boyfriend or she's cheating on me. 1.00
00:29:54.220 And like you create this weird story that has no basis in reality.
00:29:58.220 And all it could have been is that she was like walking by and maybe she had some flatulence 0.93
00:30:03.500 and she was trying to hold it in.
00:30:04.760 So she didn't rip one as she walked by your door. 0.98
00:30:07.140 Like it literally could have been that.
00:30:08.960 It could have been that just as easily as it could have been the story you conjured up
00:30:12.780 in your mind.
00:30:13.980 And so when she looks at you that way, you don't need to make a story about it.
00:30:18.740 I don't know.
00:30:19.960 And then going about your work and your day.
00:30:21.740 It's, it's simple as that.
00:30:23.040 It really is.
00:30:24.280 Yeah.
00:30:24.700 I love it.
00:30:25.260 All right, Tony Erzy, man, I hate hanging up on his question really quick, but like
00:30:31.860 Khaled's talking about the battle plan, right?
00:30:35.120 Which is the system by which we use in the Iron Council.
00:30:39.360 And we have battle planners, which is the kind of the planner that we use back to what
00:30:46.400 he's talking about to track our objectives and our tactics.
00:30:50.200 You can get those at orderofman.com in the store.
00:30:55.260 Um, we have inventory for those if you want to purchase them.
00:30:58.180 Yeah.
00:30:58.600 I mean, I use mine every single day.
00:31:00.200 I've got mine here.
00:31:00.980 In fact, I just transferred to a new insert because I just ran out of pages in the other
00:31:05.700 ones.
00:31:06.040 So I use that literally every single day.
00:31:08.960 I'm looking at that.
00:31:09.440 You keep all the inserts around, huh?
00:31:11.420 Which is kind of, I keep kind of cool.
00:31:13.020 The old inserts to me.
00:31:13.820 Almost like a journal.
00:31:14.440 Yeah.
00:31:14.940 Yeah.
00:31:15.180 I've got them in my, in my closet.
00:31:16.880 They're just stacked up right there.
00:31:17.980 And I put the dates to and from dates and they're all stacked up right there.
00:31:20.940 Yeah.
00:31:21.480 I kind of like that.
00:31:22.340 All right.
00:31:23.300 Tony Urzi.
00:31:24.180 Today, I spent some time with a close friend who is 91 and knows that his time here on earth
00:31:29.880 is short.
00:31:31.080 He has lived a life well lived as a man and, and as a believer and is ready to go home.
00:31:36.580 His words reminded me of what the apostle Paul said in second Timothy chapter four verses
00:31:42.820 seven through eight, that he has fought the good fight, kept the faith and is ready to
00:31:47.640 receive the crown.
00:31:48.600 The Lord has waiting for him.
00:31:50.980 What are the one to two things that are important to you and would summarize your life that you
00:31:56.520 would want to be able to say when you reach the end of your time on earth?
00:32:02.260 Wow.
00:32:02.660 That's pretty deep.
00:32:03.360 I love that, that scripture.
00:32:04.860 I don't know that I heard, I've heard that scripture before, but ready to receive the crown
00:32:09.220 that God has in store for him.
00:32:10.820 I'm paraphrasing, but that's pretty amazing.
00:32:12.840 Uh, what would I want to be known for?
00:32:16.500 You know, I have been asked this question in the past.
00:32:19.840 What I would want to be known for is that I was a man who was willing to take action or
00:32:26.240 take risk in pursuit of what was meaningful to me.
00:32:29.920 I don't, I don't think that there's any, I shouldn't say that.
00:32:34.280 I don't know if there's anything greater than being able to do that.
00:32:38.340 And I, and I feel like if I have an idea or a thought in my mind, as long as it's righteous
00:32:45.340 and ethical and moral and legal, if I have that thought in my mind, then I have a moral
00:32:51.020 obligation.
00:32:51.640 I'm using those two words very deliberately.
00:32:53.840 I have a moral obligation to pursue it.
00:32:56.840 If there's a business idea that I have, and again, moral, right, righteous, ethical, legal,
00:33:04.900 then I have a moral obligation to pursue it.
00:33:07.840 If there's a relationship that I want to develop and build, then I have a moral obligation to
00:33:12.120 pursue it.
00:33:12.620 I have a moral obligation to take risks towards the things that are meaningful and significant
00:33:16.120 because I don't feel like it would be put in my heart or in my soul if I wasn't meant
00:33:22.840 to pursue it.
00:33:23.440 Now, I will tell you that it may not be the final destination and I'm well aware of that,
00:33:29.740 but some decisions that I've had in life have gotten me on the path to what maybe still isn't
00:33:35.820 the final destination.
00:33:37.660 You know, for example, with this podcast, I started with another podcast when I was doing
00:33:41.260 financial planning and that started from recording my very first presentation I did with prospects
00:33:46.980 to get them as clients.
00:33:48.600 That morphed into a podcast, which then morphed into this podcast, which then morphed into doing
00:33:54.460 this for 10 years, all because I had the moral conviction to follow through on something,
00:33:59.940 even though it felt weird or I didn't have the time or I didn't know how to do it or people
00:34:05.580 would think I'm dumb, which is all things that came up.
00:34:09.540 So I think for me, it's that, is that if I have a righteous, moral, ethical, legal idea
00:34:17.300 in my head, then I have an obligation to pursue it.
00:34:20.320 And I want people to look at me and say, yeah, he did it.
00:34:23.660 He did that.
00:34:24.420 Didn't always pan out in his favor.
00:34:26.000 Didn't always work out.
00:34:26.880 But yeah, he definitely took those risks.
00:34:28.360 He went towards something that he thought was important.
00:34:30.060 Yeah, more and more for me, I have realized that a life of fulfillment and meaning is found
00:34:40.900 always in the service of someone else.
00:34:45.660 And so did I serve?
00:34:48.620 Did I serve my kids?
00:34:50.200 Are they better off for me being part of their life?
00:34:53.540 Are they, do they realize how amazing they are because of how I showed up as a father?
00:35:02.820 Did I serve the people I had a chance to work with?
00:35:06.640 Did I create the environment for them to see their divine potential and to grow in ways that
00:35:13.200 otherwise wasn't possible?
00:35:15.700 And, and so I, I think in the end, right, like that, that's the ultimate reflection for me
00:35:21.820 is like, did I serve?
00:35:24.020 Did, did I serve humanity, my family, my, my siblings, my spouse, my, and, and the other
00:35:30.920 people I had a chance to serve?
00:35:32.940 Did I, or did I neglect it?
00:35:35.580 Did I not act when I know I probably should have act?
00:35:38.800 Did I say something?
00:35:40.060 Did I foster a relationship that I probably should have?
00:35:43.080 And I didn't.
00:35:44.180 So that's the measuring stick for me.
00:35:48.060 You know, you know, Kip, when you were saying that one thing that came to mind, a little
00:35:51.520 bit of a tangent, but when you said, did I have the courage to act another way that,
00:35:56.620 that I think manifests for myself and a lot of guys probably listening is making sure that
00:36:02.000 you fix problems when they arise.
00:36:04.520 So if you slighted somebody or took advantage of somebody or wrong somebody, um, or even said
00:36:11.680 something in anger to one of your kids, maybe it was fairly benign, but still you could tell
00:36:16.460 they were hurt by it.
00:36:17.920 Part of acting is correcting situations when we screw up.
00:36:21.480 And one of the questions that Kip, you and I get all the time is how do I move on from this?
00:36:26.120 How do I get over this?
00:36:27.440 How do I let go?
00:36:28.280 Like Khaled was asking earlier.
00:36:29.720 Part of that is putting a period at the end of the sentence.
00:36:32.820 You can't complete the sentence until you put the punctuation on it.
00:36:36.780 And sometimes the punctuation with your life is, I'm sorry.
00:36:41.340 I should not have done that.
00:36:43.860 Here's what I'm going to do different moving forward.
00:36:45.780 And then doing that, building that as you move forward.
00:36:49.060 Um, that's, that's one thing I think often guys overlook and something I think more of
00:36:52.700 us can do.
00:36:53.580 Well, which is great, right?
00:36:55.600 Because you didn't hear me say perfection.
00:37:01.880 Serving people is not perfect.
00:37:05.600 Yeah.
00:37:06.320 Right.
00:37:07.620 So that, that aligns really well.
00:37:09.620 All right, John McDermott, question for you.
00:37:13.360 At what point in order of man's history, did you realize that you were all in on this
00:37:18.260 movement?
00:37:18.920 What were the signs and signals?
00:37:22.980 So I started this in 2015 as a side, it's 10 years, 10 years ago is a long time.
00:37:31.400 It seems like so long.
00:37:32.700 I'm trying to go back to what I was doing.
00:37:34.520 I remember recording podcasts in my financial planning office in between appointments.
00:37:39.620 Um, and then I would work mornings.
00:37:42.800 I'd work for an hour or two in the morning.
00:37:44.280 I'd get up really early and work an hour or two on order of man.
00:37:46.800 And then I'd go do my financial planning stuff.
00:37:48.620 And then I'd come home, uh, hang out with my kids, eat dinner with the family.
00:37:53.000 And then I'd go back to working for a couple hours in the evening.
00:37:57.280 And my ex-wife at the time, probably six or seven months into it said, Hey, you know,
00:38:02.300 you seem really happy.
00:38:03.800 You seem like you're doing a really good thing with order of man.
00:38:06.520 I like that you're motivated, inspired by it, but it's taking away from the family household
00:38:11.880 income.
00:38:13.200 And it was, it definitely was, um, because I was doing it more and more than I was doing
00:38:18.340 the financial planning stuff.
00:38:19.440 And she said, you probably ought to scale back or have some boundaries or figure out a way
00:38:22.900 to make some money.
00:38:23.540 And to myself at the time, I thought, well, I'm not scaling back.
00:38:27.380 If anything, I'm doubling down on this.
00:38:28.900 So I got to figure out how to make some money and I'll spare you that story for another day.
00:38:32.660 But it ended up working out.
00:38:34.660 And I started to make a little bit of money doing this, offering insight and coaching
00:38:39.200 and groups and things like that events to, to the men who were, who were listening.
00:38:44.860 Um, and then I remember going to my ex-wife and saying, Hey, I think I really want to
00:38:48.560 sell the business, the financial planning business.
00:38:50.780 And she was like, no, no way.
00:38:52.160 And even I was saying that, like I had this conflicting thought of sell the business,
00:38:55.820 not sell it, not.
00:38:57.640 And of course she, she had the right answer.
00:39:00.360 Don't do it.
00:39:01.040 And I did it anyways.
00:39:02.800 Um, not without her blessing, of course, but we had a lot of conversations about me selling
00:39:07.700 it and why it would be okay.
00:39:08.840 And I didn't really go all in.
00:39:10.620 I knew I was going to go in, but I didn't go all in until my back was against the wall.
00:39:14.560 Yeah.
00:39:15.020 Until you're like, and we're not going to make the mortgage if I don't really do this well.
00:39:19.880 Yeah.
00:39:20.240 So I did.
00:39:21.560 I, I sold the business.
00:39:23.960 I don't want to say I burned the boats because I don't think that would paint it accurately
00:39:27.640 because I don't encourage or advocate for men to do that, especially if they have a mortgage
00:39:32.800 and have a wife and kids and responsibilities.
00:39:35.000 I would never tell you to do something.
00:39:36.780 I didn't do myself.
00:39:37.840 Um, I was in the fortunate position, not lucky, but fortunate position because I built up
00:39:44.300 a successful financial planning business where I could sell that to another advisor who I
00:39:49.340 got into the business about nine years earlier with.
00:39:52.020 And I sold my book of business to him.
00:39:54.420 And it was a, if I remember correctly, we did a small lump sum up front and then it was a
00:40:00.400 ongoing payment for commissions.
00:40:03.020 I want to say four or five years.
00:40:05.700 Yeah.
00:40:06.420 Residuals for four or five years.
00:40:08.480 And I remember going into him, man, probably two or three years into it.
00:40:12.380 And I said, Hey, look, I'm moving the family across the country to Maine.
00:40:16.360 And I could really use the additional funds to be able to secure the house and get everything
00:40:23.260 settled in and everything else.
00:40:24.600 And he said, okay, well, what are you thinking?
00:40:26.280 And I said, I'll give you an even greater discounted price if you just buy the rest of
00:40:30.760 the contract out.
00:40:32.580 And in those moments, you realize like how much you believe in yourself because I was willing
00:40:39.700 to take less money than what he owed me in order to make that dream work.
00:40:44.780 Yeah.
00:40:45.220 And I think, I think we would all do well to ask ourselves if we'd be willing to do something
00:40:51.160 comparable.
00:40:53.480 Would you be willing to sell your current business to go chase something meaningful and
00:40:59.140 significant?
00:40:59.800 Would you be willing to say to a person who owes you money, you can give me 20% less so that
00:41:05.180 you can move your family across the country to a place you don't know hardly anyone to a
00:41:10.480 climate you've never been in to see if we can make this work.
00:41:13.760 I don't know many people who would, and I'm not saying that to toot my horn.
00:41:18.520 I'm saying that to go back to what I was telling you earlier about if you have a dream, then
00:41:25.140 you have a moral obligation to chase it.
00:41:27.140 And to go back even further about what we were talking about with George, God will pave
00:41:31.720 a way.
00:41:32.120 He will make sure you're going to be fine.
00:41:35.620 There's going to be a lot of dark days, scary days.
00:41:37.460 I remember when I moved to Maine, I remember thinking I was for like two or three weeks.
00:41:42.740 I just questioned in my head, was this the right call?
00:41:45.460 Was this the right decision?
00:41:46.740 Should we have done this?
00:41:47.600 And the answer was yes.
00:41:48.360 Most definitely.
00:41:49.000 Yes.
00:41:49.800 Took some while.
00:41:50.580 It took a while to figure it out.
00:41:51.700 But those are moments that came up where I knew, oh, I'm all in because I put my money
00:41:56.300 where my mouth is.
00:41:59.080 Why do you move to a moral obligation for a dream?
00:42:05.100 Like what's your connection to say, hey, I have this idea.
00:42:09.060 I have this dream.
00:42:10.220 Why do you attach morality to it?
00:42:13.880 What's your, what's, what's at the root of that?
00:42:16.560 I think it goes back to what you're saying.
00:42:20.240 So I attach morality to dreams because I believe they're divinely inspired.
00:42:26.860 I don't think, I don't know.
00:42:30.060 I don't know if God comes in and implants these ideas into our head or I think more likely what
00:42:36.420 happens is he puts us in scenarios and circumstances where we start to extract ideas and concepts
00:42:42.960 and insight and through those experiences.
00:42:45.640 And act on.
00:42:46.300 Yes.
00:42:47.220 Yeah.
00:42:47.960 So I don't think he comes in and like taps you on the shoulder and all of a sudden you're
00:42:51.940 enlightened.
00:42:52.440 I think he's presenting opportunities for you to act on.
00:42:55.900 And here's my thought with that too.
00:42:58.260 It's little small things that are, that are seemingly insignificant.
00:43:02.180 Like he just plants a little seed in there and says, you know what?
00:43:04.840 You should really ask that woman on a date. 1.00
00:43:08.400 And you're like, ah, I don't know.
00:43:10.260 She probably doesn't like me.
00:43:11.440 She probably got a boyfriend and gosh, I'm busy with work.
00:43:15.380 And so now I'm not going to.
00:43:16.840 Well, then you're not going to get the next prompt.
00:43:19.040 You didn't do the first one.
00:43:20.620 So you're not going to get the second one.
00:43:22.100 And these are the same guys who complain about never being able to find a lovely woman.
00:43:26.620 Or he might say to you, or might, might put you in an environment where you listen to this
00:43:31.760 podcast and you think to yourself, well, I'd really like to start a podcast.
00:43:35.700 Maybe I should look into that.
00:43:36.940 And you're like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:43:38.620 I'm busy.
00:43:39.580 I don't know how to do it.
00:43:40.780 There's, there's too many people are doing podcasts.
00:43:43.160 I don't even know what to talk about.
00:43:44.400 People don't want to hear what I have to say.
00:43:45.980 So no, I'm not going to do it.
00:43:47.040 And then you don't get prompt two, three, four, 10, a hundred, a thousand, et cetera.
00:43:51.940 We need to act on the things, even if they're small.
00:43:56.280 And the beauty of that is the small things are less risky.
00:43:58.960 You ask the woman on a date, the worst she's going to say is no, you're not out anything.
00:44:03.240 You're interested in starting a podcast.
00:44:04.900 You invest a couple hundred bucks in a microphone, do a couple podcasts and realize you don't like
00:44:08.880 it.
00:44:09.000 You're out a couple hundred bucks in a couple hours.
00:44:11.580 Acting on the small things is easy, but these are the people who will say, well, why don't
00:44:15.140 I have that?
00:44:16.760 Why don't I have the marriage? 0.88
00:44:18.140 Why don't I have the business?
00:44:19.360 Why don't I have this?
00:44:20.280 Why don't I?
00:44:20.860 Because you didn't act on the little small and simple things that were given to you.
00:44:25.380 Those are blessings.
00:44:26.540 Those were gifts and you were supposed to use them and you didn't use them.
00:44:30.880 So you're not getting more.
00:44:32.560 It's the parable of the talents.
00:44:33.980 If we want to get biblical, you didn't deploy your talents.
00:44:37.300 So you don't get any more.
00:44:38.540 So I think to go back to something you were saying earlier about service, my job is to
00:44:46.240 learn as much as I possibly can to return to God and return to heaven and to help other
00:44:49.960 people do the same.
00:44:51.160 If I had to strip everything else away about my purpose on this earth, that's exactly what
00:44:55.420 it is.
00:44:56.120 And if that's the case, then I need to do the things that are going to help people live
00:45:00.280 a better life so they can return to his presence as well.
00:45:03.420 And that growth on your part may include a successful podcast and it may not.
00:45:11.040 It may not.
00:45:11.720 Doesn't change whether you should do it or not.
00:45:14.820 Right.
00:45:15.620 That's the concept of Simon Sinek start with why.
00:45:19.400 If you start with the why, then the how and the what can be backfilled.
00:45:23.660 This is part of the problem.
00:45:24.860 You see so many military guys, LEOs, when they get out of their field, they retire, they
00:45:31.180 get medically disqualified or whatever it might be, then they're lost.
00:45:34.260 They're rudderless.
00:45:36.020 And I can't help but think that they tied up so much of their identity in the what they
00:45:39.880 were doing, not why they were doing it.
00:45:41.520 So if, for example, you have a police officer who is so wrapped up in his identity of the
00:45:50.040 blue uniform he puts on, when he takes that uniform off, who is he?
00:45:53.680 He doesn't even know.
00:45:55.280 But if you take the same man and he says to himself through reflection and insight that
00:46:00.700 I'm a protector, I'm a guardian, I'm a protector of my people, I care about my community, whether
00:46:06.580 I'm wearing this blue uniform and this gold badge or not.
00:46:09.120 So when he takes that uniform off, now all of a sudden, maybe he gets into teaching or
00:46:16.200 he gets into coaching.
00:46:18.400 You know, we have a close personal friend who retired after, I think, 25, 26 years in
00:46:24.980 the police department in New Jersey.
00:46:26.700 And now he's coaching because he's still giving back to his community.
00:46:31.840 That has nothing to do with him being a police officer.
00:46:34.360 It has everything to do what's under the uniform.
00:46:36.220 So find out what it is so that regardless of what you're doing or what your job title
00:46:42.520 is, there's still purpose and significance and meaning in your life.
00:46:47.020 Yeah.
00:46:48.240 All right.
00:46:49.080 Ryan Partain, what are indicators that you look for to inform you when to use supportive
00:46:55.220 and empathetic approach as opposed to more intensive, tough love approach when you see a brother
00:47:03.280 going down the wrong road?
00:47:05.080 Do you have a universal approach to intervention?
00:47:08.080 And what tactics and strategies do you feel are most effective?
00:47:12.740 I hate this question because it's something I struggle with.
00:47:16.520 I struggle.
00:47:17.620 I do what comes natural, not what's needed.
00:47:20.200 Yeah.
00:47:20.360 You know, maybe as I get older and a little bit wiser, hopefully, a little bit more patient
00:47:30.360 and understanding, I think this happens with a lot of men as they get older, is I don't
00:47:35.380 really feel like it's my job to rescue people.
00:47:38.260 And if I felt like it was my job to rescue people, I might be a little bit more authoritarian.
00:47:43.520 Yep.
00:47:43.920 Like, you're going to do this because it's in your best interest and it's my job to make
00:47:47.860 sure you're safe.
00:47:50.500 And instead, I don't really feel like it's my job to save people.
00:47:54.560 I want to serve people.
00:47:55.780 I want them to be saved, but it's not my job.
00:47:58.640 What I think that allows me to do is to offer a little bit more grace as they're dealing with
00:48:04.520 things because I don't have any judgment or I should say I have less judgment about who
00:48:09.120 they are as people.
00:48:09.780 And then it allows me to ask questions.
00:48:12.120 And I think asking questions is the most powerful thing you can do for your friends.
00:48:16.640 So, Kip, if I noticed you struggling with something, maybe your demeanor has changed.
00:48:25.140 I don't need to come in and rescue you.
00:48:26.960 I don't even know what you're dealing with.
00:48:28.160 Maybe you're not dealing with anything.
00:48:29.160 Maybe you're just tired.
00:48:29.880 I don't know.
00:48:31.100 And so the answer to that is, hey, Kip, I've noticed your demeanor over the past couple
00:48:35.580 of weeks seems to have changed.
00:48:36.700 You seem less patient.
00:48:40.000 You look a little tired with all due respect.
00:48:43.220 You seem agitated.
00:48:44.980 And I care about you.
00:48:47.560 What's up?
00:48:50.400 And then you might disclose something or you might not.
00:48:54.040 And if you didn't, I might say, hey, look, Kip, I know it's really hard to share when things
00:49:00.320 are hard or you might be struggling with something.
00:49:02.200 I only say that because I know when I was going through hardship, I felt a little bit
00:49:07.360 like what I'm feeling from you right now.
00:49:09.600 And it was really hard for me to talk about those things.
00:49:13.360 Would you mind opening up to me about what you're dealing with?
00:49:15.640 It'll just stay between me and you.
00:49:17.500 There's another question.
00:49:18.980 It's directive.
00:49:19.800 It's like, would you, I want you to share with me, but it's still a question.
00:49:23.000 And you might say, no, I don't, I don't really want to.
00:49:25.040 Cool.
00:49:25.660 No problem.
00:49:26.140 So, hey, you know what?
00:49:27.380 I'm here without judgment in a conversation that is just between you and I when you're
00:49:33.200 ready.
00:49:34.340 If you say yes and you want to talk about it, I'll sit there and talk with you, but I'm
00:49:37.660 not going to offer you advice unless you ask for it.
00:49:40.680 Even when friends are like, you know, like, you know the answer of what this guy should
00:49:45.540 do.
00:49:46.240 I try not to give advice.
00:49:48.160 Unsolicited advice is rarely, if ever, appreciated.
00:49:50.800 No, the, the, the closest I'll get to that is if Kip, I, I felt like I could offer you
00:49:56.980 some insight.
00:49:57.660 I would say this, Hey, you know what, Kip?
00:49:59.880 I remember dealing with that in with, with one of my kids and it was so confusing and
00:50:06.900 so frustrating.
00:50:07.500 And somebody shared something with me one time and it just completely altered the way I thought
00:50:12.520 about it.
00:50:13.520 Would you mind if I shared that with you?
00:50:15.860 Yeah.
00:50:16.260 So I am offering unsolicited advice.
00:50:19.640 That's the closest I'll get to offering unsolicited advice.
00:50:22.920 Totally.
00:50:23.440 Well, because the minute you start soliciting, people move to, is he right or wrong?
00:50:30.280 So you're like, Hey Kip, I have some advice for you already.
00:50:34.060 99% of people go, okay, let me get my judge hat ready.
00:50:38.360 Ryan, let me grab out my pen and paper.
00:50:39.940 See if I agree with you.
00:50:40.820 Okay, go ahead.
00:50:41.440 Go.
00:50:42.640 Nope.
00:50:43.080 Don't.
00:50:43.480 No.
00:50:43.900 Yeah, I agree.
00:50:44.640 Like I'm not even listening.
00:50:47.120 I'm, I'm not even the right state, but if you go, Oh man, that reminds me of this time
00:50:52.260 with one of my kids.
00:50:53.440 It was like a major breakthrough for me and they were doing X, Y, Z.
00:50:56.780 And I thought, Oh my gosh.
00:50:58.680 Right?
00:50:59.020 Like I was showing up wrong.
00:51:02.200 And so I made this pivot.
00:51:03.860 I'm engulfed in your story.
00:51:05.900 I'm just listening.
00:51:07.860 And what will I naturally do?
00:51:11.120 I'll see myself in it.
00:51:13.020 I'll consider it for myself way more.
00:51:16.260 Than if you said, Hey, Kip, you should.
00:51:19.480 And I, and the reason why is because of the power of autonomy and creation.
00:51:26.440 Most change will never be in the space of tough love and intrusiveness.
00:51:33.120 Most transformation is on the terms of the individual choosing for themselves that this is now important
00:51:43.000 enough for me, right?
00:51:45.900 It's in Bloom's taxonomy.
00:51:47.580 The highest form of knowledge is in creation.
00:51:51.900 I can't create if you're dictating to me what I should do.
00:51:55.860 But you create possibility for me to consider for myself.
00:51:59.460 I'll make it my own.
00:52:00.880 And that is where growth is.
00:52:04.960 It's always going to be more sticky that way.
00:52:07.700 That's interesting.
00:52:08.960 I have a, um, I have a close friend.
00:52:11.380 I'm going to be a little bit loose with some of the details of this, but I have a close friend who's dealing with some things in his marriage right now.
00:52:17.120 And I, and I, I know he is.
00:52:18.680 And so I reached out to him a week or two ago and I said, Hey man, how's everything going?
00:52:22.020 He's like, yeah, it's going good.
00:52:23.200 But I could tell it was like one of those things where it's, it's good.
00:52:25.540 It's good.
00:52:25.820 It's fine.
00:52:26.100 I'm like, nah, can I hop on a call with you when I get back from my trip?
00:52:29.860 He's like, yeah, let's hop on a call.
00:52:31.620 So I called him and we talked and I didn't offer any advice.
00:52:34.660 I don't have any advice.
00:52:35.940 I've never been in the same type of situation he's dealing with.
00:52:38.640 What advice could I possibly offer him other than just listening?
00:52:41.100 And if he has a thought or a question, I can maybe just provide some feedback or be a sounding board.
00:52:46.760 And so, um, anyways, we had a really good conversation.
00:52:49.400 I thought it was fairly productive and I hope it was helpful for him.
00:52:52.480 But right before I got off the phone, I thought to myself, you know, I know somebody else who's going through a similar or who went through years and years ago, a very similar situation.
00:53:02.260 And so I told my friend, I said, Hey, look, I've, I've never been in this boat, what you're dealing with right now, but I know somebody who has, and you know that person too.
00:53:12.100 And I'm not going to tell you who it is because it's not my information to share.
00:53:15.180 But if you're interested, I would love to make that connection for you.
00:53:18.640 And he's like, okay, yeah, I'll let you know.
00:53:20.240 And kind of blew it off a little bit, which is fine.
00:53:22.220 Like it's his life.
00:53:22.980 You can do whatever he wants.
00:53:24.500 Well, three days later, yesterday, he messages me and he says, Hey, you know what?
00:53:29.460 I'm actually going to take you up on that offer.
00:53:31.260 I would like to talk with that person.
00:53:33.320 So now I'm going to reach out to this person.
00:53:34.860 I'm going to make sure I have permission to connect the two.
00:53:37.940 And I'm going to connect both of them.
00:53:39.500 Because they're, one's dealt with it.
00:53:42.760 One's currently dealing with it.
00:53:44.140 I don't need to get involved in that.
00:53:45.540 I don't have any advice, but now you're helping your friend with something that they're dealing
00:53:51.880 with by making an introduction.
00:53:54.860 You're, you're helping solve their problems, but you're not having to do it directly because
00:53:58.080 you might not have the credibility or the experience to be able to deal with it.
00:54:01.940 And I think that does require a level of empathy that it no longer is about you.
00:54:06.280 You just want to make sure you get the resource and help that your friends need.
00:54:09.680 So I'm, I'm, I, I'm saying these things because these are highlighting where I've done it right.
00:54:14.000 But also I want to make sure that I'm very clear.
00:54:17.120 This is not my strong suit.
00:54:19.300 And every once in a while I get it right, but it's something I really have to focus on.
00:54:23.560 Yeah, totally.
00:54:25.520 Um, that's a wrap.
00:54:28.160 I think the key thing, right.
00:54:29.520 We talked about a couple of questions.
00:54:31.420 Wait, you didn't, you didn't ask the question about what kind of animal we would be.
00:54:35.440 I skipped that one.
00:54:36.540 Cause I knew it would trigger you.
00:54:38.180 And no, I have a thought on this.
00:54:39.940 I have a thought about it.
00:54:41.240 Okay.
00:54:41.900 Um, I even, I've been thinking longer.
00:54:43.980 Someone asked what animal would you be if you, if you got re-incarnated.
00:54:47.720 And I thought, and I, I was going to save everybody listening. 1.00
00:54:50.860 I mean, the, from the rant of Ryan Michler, like, this is such a stupid question. 1.00
00:54:54.920 It's never possible. 1.00
00:54:56.020 I don't know why you'd even ask something.
00:54:57.840 That's not logical.
00:54:59.640 I know.
00:55:00.280 See, I'm trying to expand my horizons and, and answer these questions.
00:55:03.620 I'm like, dude, ask, ask the question.
00:55:05.440 And I thought about it.
00:55:06.240 Okay.
00:55:06.520 So I thought about it.
00:55:07.160 It's your spirit animal.
00:55:07.840 Go ahead.
00:55:08.200 Tell us.
00:55:08.620 All right.
00:55:09.000 It's not even my spirit animal.
00:55:10.520 It's just, if I was reincarnated, what would I be?
00:55:13.120 And I was thinking about it.
00:55:14.220 I'm like, you know, everybody else would be like a lion or a bear or like a panther or something
00:55:20.700 bad-ass, right?
00:55:23.940 And those are good answers.
00:55:25.660 Those are good answers.
00:55:27.220 But I think at this point in my life, I would rather be just some, like, some sort of like
00:55:35.620 small animal where everybody just left me alone.
00:55:38.820 Like a hermit crab or like, like a jellyfish.
00:55:43.180 I was in Alaska last week and jellyfish, I don't even think they have brains.
00:55:46.720 They just kind of exist and nothing bothers them and they just float in the ocean and
00:55:51.780 just are left alone.
00:55:52.980 And I think if, uh, I think if I was an animal, I would, I would, as I get older, gravitate
00:55:59.220 more towards just exactly just existing, nobody bothering me, nothing trying to get me, just
00:56:07.460 doing life and just enjoying floating in the ocean or, you know, in my hole with my shell
00:56:14.260 on my back, I think that's what I would be at this point in my life.
00:56:17.820 It doesn't sound like, uh, you have old man syndrome at all.
00:56:22.300 Yeah.
00:56:24.380 Ryan's ready to be 75 and retired.
00:56:27.440 Exactly.
00:56:28.300 I've been ready to be 75 since I was 15.
00:56:31.420 So it makes sense.
00:56:33.100 What about you?
00:56:33.620 What animal would you be, Kip?
00:56:36.860 I was going to skip the question, so I didn't even think about this.
00:56:40.000 I know.
00:56:40.600 You were thinking the same thing I was thinking.
00:56:42.400 Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
00:56:44.400 I, full disclosure, I really was.
00:56:46.480 Uh, you know what? 1.00
00:56:47.740 Like, um, I don't have enough fun, but whenever I watch videos of pandas, they're just stupid 1.00
00:56:55.620 and having fun. 0.99
00:56:56.880 And I, I, you know, that sounds nice actually, just crawling around and almost killing myself 1.00
00:57:03.560 out of my own stupidity, as long as I don't get hunted. 1.00
00:57:06.120 So if I'm a protected animal still, then I'm down. 0.99
00:57:10.460 I, I think panda would be fun and everyone thinks they're cute, so, yeah.
00:57:14.540 There you go.
00:57:15.700 Well, panda, jellyfish, either that or a rhinoceros, I'd be one of the two, so.
00:57:20.540 Yeah.
00:57:21.000 Well, I haven't decided where, which one I am, I'm on yet.
00:57:24.000 Yeah. 0.97
00:57:24.220 My first thought was like a, uh, a T-Rex dinosaur and just kill everybody. 1.00
00:57:28.660 Oh, there you go. 1.00
00:57:29.520 There you go.
00:57:30.220 I like that.
00:57:31.120 Full domination.
00:57:34.240 All right, man.
00:57:35.020 Bring us home.
00:57:35.700 Okay.
00:57:35.920 Yeah.
00:57:36.580 So, I mean, key thing, uh, get your battle planner.
00:57:39.220 That's the system that we use in the IC.
00:57:41.220 This is how we stay on top of things.
00:57:44.100 Obviously we have hundreds and hundreds of men that use that system within the iron council.
00:57:49.960 So if you're, whether you're in the IC or outside of the IC, uh, you can get your battle
00:57:54.600 planners at the store, um, order of man.com or store.order of man.com as well.
00:58:00.860 Yeah.
00:58:01.220 Or you can just go to order of man.com slash battle planner.
00:58:03.900 That'll take you right there.
00:58:05.060 That's an easy way to remember it too.
00:58:06.380 So yeah, check those out.
00:58:07.340 And there's a video, there's an accompanying video that shows you how to use it.
00:58:10.500 Um, you may not need the video.
00:58:12.000 It's pretty self-explanatory.
00:58:13.240 That goes back to what you were saying earlier, Kip.
00:58:15.160 There's so many plans and systems out there, but if you need to read a college level textbook
00:58:20.240 in order to do the plan, you probably won't do it.
00:58:24.720 So I'm a man, I'm a simple jellyfish of a man.
00:58:28.580 So I need things to be dumbed down, easy to use and, uh, very self-explanatory.
00:58:34.000 So that's the beauty, part of the beauty of the battle planner that we have created over
00:58:37.500 the past 10 years.
00:58:38.660 Yeah, absolutely.
00:58:40.060 Jellyfish of the man.
00:58:41.400 Uh, and to connect with that jellyfish, uh, at Ryan Nick, we're both on X and Instagram
00:58:46.140 as well.
00:58:47.420 The only difference between that, that I do want to make one caveat.
00:58:50.820 I would have some sort of a skeleton.
00:58:52.700 So I'm not a spineless jellyfish.
00:58:54.580 I would be a new species with a spine.
00:58:57.020 I just want to say that up there too.
00:58:58.900 I think you just want to be a sea turtle.
00:59:00.840 The sea turtle would.
00:59:02.200 It's not bad.
00:59:03.200 It's not bad.
00:59:03.900 Yeah.
00:59:04.820 All right, guys.
00:59:05.500 Appreciate you.
00:59:06.060 Great questions today.
00:59:07.340 Uh, we will be back on Friday until then go out there, take action and become the man
00:59:11.120 you are meant to be.
00:59:16.900 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.
00:59:19.780 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.
00:59:23.600 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.