Order of Man - Learning to Let Go, When to Offer Advice and When NOT to, and the Power of Therapy

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:05.940 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.320 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.

00:00:15.320 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.

00:00:19.480 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:24.380 Hey, what's up, man? Great to see you. Sounds like you had a little bit of an emergency that you needed to deal with, a fire, so to speak, literally and figuratively, that you needed to put out, it sounds like. Holy cow.

00:00:35.820 Well, and it's funny, just to bring everyone up to speed, I was late on our recording this morning because our phones blew up.

00:00:43.060 My wife's and I phone asking, like, how's our family? How's the home? Is it our house that caught on fire? And I'm not home.

00:00:51.500 So, we were kind of mad scrambling a little bit, making sure that everything's okay.

00:00:57.380 In hindsight, maybe a good little retrospect right now, here in the morning, thinking, you know what? Everything's okay, right?

00:01:05.740 Like, home's okay, but most importantly, like, maybe a little bit of gratitude on my part when I think about, you know, how my morning could have been, and someone's morning is that crappy.

00:01:15.820 Yeah, because somebody's house burned down. There's a couple of things when you told me that I was thinking of.

00:01:20.400 Number one, and I'm so, like, I know I'm a pain in the ass sometimes, and I'm so analytical.

00:01:29.000 I don't know what you're talking about.

00:01:32.540 Yeah, I bet.

00:01:33.340 You know more than most people. I think my ex-wife and then Kip, in that order.

00:01:42.220 So, one thing I was thinking about is, like, we have to be better communicators.

00:01:47.040 If you're worried about somebody, don't just say, are you okay?

00:01:51.920 Because think about how that might come across.

00:01:54.160 Instead, say, I heard there's a fire in your neighborhood.

00:01:57.180 Is your house, is your family safe?

00:02:00.200 Like, don't just blow up somebody's phone and say, you okay?

00:02:03.160 What does that mean? I don't know.

00:02:04.720 Because what if it takes me an hour to get back to it?

00:02:05.940 Yeah, should I be nervous? Should I not be nervous?

00:02:07.740 Yeah.

00:02:08.180 Right. So, think about that. That's important.

00:02:11.340 And then, oh, I had another thought on that.

00:02:14.240 What was the other thing?

00:02:14.980 Oh, we've been preaching this, Kip, for years and years.

00:02:19.640 You have to have margin in your life, guys.

00:02:23.100 You have to have margin.

00:02:24.500 We've talked about fires.

00:02:25.760 You have to put out fires.

00:02:27.560 We've said that figuratively.

00:02:29.860 But in this case, there's a literal situation where somebody's house burns down.

00:02:34.200 Or you, you're running a little bit late for this podcast.

00:02:37.620 Imagine if we just had podcast, podcast, podcast, meeting, podcast, book, this, this, this.

00:02:43.440 There's no margin in that forever.

00:02:45.420 And all of a sudden, your day is just completely ruined.

00:02:49.840 It's shot because you needed to take an extra 15 minutes to ensure that your family's safe,

00:02:55.080 that your house is okay, to maybe checking on your neighbors, to see what you can do there,

00:02:58.540 to let people know you're safe.

00:03:00.980 You've got some time.

00:03:02.040 And then you said something interesting.

00:03:03.820 I said, hey, do we need to cut this call short?

00:03:05.760 You said, no, I time block it for an hour and a half.

00:03:08.320 But our podcast goes for an hour.

00:03:10.060 We've been preaching this stuff for years.

00:03:12.800 And this is exactly why we do it.

00:03:16.380 So guys, if your schedule is just 9 to 10 is this, 10 to 11 is this, it's brittle.

00:03:24.300 So I spent a little time with Josh Smith at Montana Knife Company last year.

00:03:31.400 I was able to forge a knife with him.

00:03:32.800 Really cool experience.

00:03:33.960 And there's, you guys at Forge Knives are going to crucify me on this, but I think you get the point.

00:03:42.020 And if you do crucify, do it publicly, please.

00:03:44.900 Yes, please.

00:03:45.560 Please, shame, mock publicly.

00:03:47.940 Absolutely.

00:03:48.880 So there's two factors that we look at when we look at metal.

00:03:53.640 We look at strength and we look at hardness.

00:03:58.120 I think those are the two.

00:03:58.920 Those are different things?

00:04:00.020 It's weird.

00:04:00.720 It's like, yes, it's weird.

00:04:02.600 It's like the strength and the hardness of it.

00:04:05.960 And you have to, it's weird.

00:04:08.100 I thought the same thing.

00:04:08.960 I'm like, that's the same thing.

00:04:10.420 No, there's like this perfect balance.

00:04:12.820 Because if you make it too hard, it loses its strength.

00:04:17.460 No, it's brittle.

00:04:19.020 Oh, it's brittle.

00:04:20.420 Ah, interesting.

00:04:22.220 But if you make it too soft, it'll just bend and won't hold its shape.

00:04:28.460 Yeah.

00:04:28.680 So you're constantly trying to find the balance of, based on what the knife, the tool is used

00:04:34.500 for, what you'd want to do on that balance.

00:04:37.160 And I think the same thing about life.

00:04:38.880 Think about your schedule.

00:04:40.140 If it's too hard, meaning it's 9 to 10, 10 to 11, 11 to 12, 12 to 1, it's brittle.

00:04:46.760 Like you'll get a shit ton of work done if everything works perfectly.

00:04:50.820 But the minute something comes up, brittle, it just breaks.

00:04:56.000 You could drop it on the ground.

00:04:57.020 There was a process where we pulled it out of, I don't, I can't remember exact, like,

00:05:01.780 I can't remember if we pulled it out of being super heated or super cooled.

00:05:04.800 I can't remember exactly, but we pulled it out and he's like, whatever you do, do not

00:05:09.180 drop this knife in this process.

00:05:10.520 Because if you drop it right now, it's a, it's the brittle, it will most brittle it'll

00:05:14.720 ever be.

00:05:15.440 If you drop it on the ground, it'll shatter.

00:05:17.620 And that's what most of our schedules are like.

00:05:20.520 One little thing comes up, whether it's something catastrophic, like you're talking about, or

00:05:24.440 you just having to take a, you know, random phone call and it just completely shatters

00:05:29.280 your, your day.

00:05:30.800 So just be aware of that.

00:05:33.120 I like that.

00:05:33.740 We were, we were talking in our leadership team, actually just last week around the ability

00:05:41.820 for us to like help people, right.

00:05:44.360 To coach up, you know, you talk about it and I stole this from you and obviously you got

00:05:49.020 it from the military, but like after action reviews, right.

00:05:52.000 Hold on.

00:05:52.280 Everything.

00:05:52.600 Let me just be really clear.

00:05:53.800 It was my original thought.

00:05:56.040 Never heard from anybody else before it was mine.

00:05:59.700 So I just want to, you guys may have not known this, but AAR is actually originated here

00:06:04.200 at the order of man podcast.

00:06:05.620 Military ticket for me.

00:06:06.920 Military thing.

00:06:08.900 Now you're going to get destroyed.

00:06:10.660 Every time my kids show me something, they're like, dad, check this out.

00:06:14.440 And they show me, you remember that?

00:06:16.160 Like Stussy symbol.

00:06:17.400 You remember that?

00:06:17.940 You know, exactly the three lines.

00:06:19.980 You're like, dad, check this out.

00:06:21.380 And they draw it like, that's cool.

00:06:23.180 Right.

00:06:23.380 I'm like, bro, I invented that like 30 years ago.

00:06:26.700 So like anything that you show me, I invented and yeah, like I've seen it.

00:06:32.840 So anyways, sorry.

00:06:34.200 Yeah.

00:06:34.440 Well, no, I was the same way with my kids when they're like shuffling.

00:06:37.240 I'm like, no, no, no, no.

00:06:38.320 That's called the running man.

00:06:39.540 And we were doing that like when we were 10.

00:06:42.140 So yeah, whatever.

00:06:43.840 Yeah.

00:06:44.080 I was not flossing and or doing the gritty though.

00:06:46.440 30 years ago.

00:06:47.060 I will say that.

00:06:48.080 That's true.

00:06:48.840 There, there was none of that during our age.

00:06:51.200 What was I saying, man?

00:06:52.660 You best.

00:06:53.020 I don't know.

00:06:53.260 After action reviews.

00:06:54.100 So awesome concept.

00:06:57.400 Great idea.

00:06:58.520 Everything that we do, we review what went well, what did not go well, right?

00:07:03.700 What adjustments we pivot.

00:07:05.640 And, and ironically enough, it's actually one of the number one contributors to a company

00:07:09.940 to be a learning organization is to work in debriefs and AERs and everything that they

00:07:15.380 do.

00:07:15.680 That way it's, it's part of just operations.

00:07:18.080 It's not like, oh, something's wrong.

00:07:20.080 So let me reach out to my employee.

00:07:21.620 It's like, no, that call went great, but let's still talk about what could go better.

00:07:26.220 How do we sure that up?

00:07:27.100 And if you do that all the time, it's part of just the company culture.

00:07:30.260 And we were talking about this as well as coaching employees and helping people out.

00:07:35.120 You can't do any of that without margin.

00:07:37.940 And ironically enough, and I'm not, I'm projecting obviously, but for us, number one contributing

00:07:43.640 factor for leadership to help employees and coach them up is margin.

00:07:48.680 It's not know-how.

00:07:50.160 It's not inability.

00:07:51.600 It's priority.

00:07:53.440 And that priority is not there because it's not urgent and important.

00:07:57.580 It's important, but it's not urgent and important.

00:08:00.240 And when we don't, when we do that, then we're putting out fires all the time.

00:08:03.560 And then we're never there to serve people.

00:08:06.540 So you said a couple of times, you said application, you said that it's ironic a couple of times.

00:08:11.700 I I'm wondering what's ironic about that.

00:08:14.160 Like, I like, what do you mean by, I'm just, I'm actually curious when you say that, why

00:08:19.260 is that?

00:08:20.260 Well, we, we assume I'm, I'm, I'm assuming what you're, uh, what you're asking is we think

00:08:27.700 that it's like a lack of skill.

00:08:29.820 It's a lack of something else, um, that's something big.

00:08:35.660 And when reality, all of that, it is, is priority and intentionality.

00:08:40.380 And then all of a sudden, like we can start addressing issues way easier.

00:08:43.880 It's, it's not as complicated as we all kind of assume it is.

00:08:49.080 Well, I think sometimes we like to make it more complicated and complex because it lets

00:08:52.680 us off the hook.

00:08:53.360 Right.

00:08:53.740 So if, um, I'm trying to think of a, a silly little example, here's an example.

00:08:59.880 I'm coaching two of my son's baseball teams and, you know, I have kids go up there and

00:09:04.340 they bat really well, or sometimes they have a poor at bat.

00:09:07.100 And I remember a couple of weeks ago, a kid, I said, what happened?

00:09:10.700 It was a third out.

00:09:11.460 We went to the dugout.

00:09:12.060 I'm like, you can't even swing.

00:09:14.560 What happened?

00:09:15.520 He's like, I threw a curve ball.

00:09:17.500 Okay.

00:09:18.860 Like, that's like what happened and what he was doing.

00:09:22.200 And that happens.

00:09:23.000 Like I get it.

00:09:23.520 They're learning and, and even professional athletes drop the ball, you know, occasionally,

00:09:28.020 but I said, okay, okay.

00:09:29.740 So like, what, so is that harder or like, well, I don't understand.

00:09:32.420 He's like, yeah, I just wasn't ready for it.

00:09:34.820 Or I, it was like, he was like making it more difficult than it needed to be.

00:09:39.060 Like the, the reality was, is that all he needed to say was it was a strike and I missed,

00:09:43.360 I just didn't swing at it.

00:09:44.440 But if we make excuses like, oh, he threw a curve ball.

00:09:48.120 Oh, I didn't expect that in the market.

00:09:50.180 Oh, my client said this and I didn't, I wasn't ready for it.

00:09:53.340 Oh, it's, it, the solution is not as easy as that because we've tried that and that doesn't

00:09:57.040 work.

00:09:57.340 Like the more complicated you make it, the more you sound, well, I mean, look, just being,

00:10:03.720 being straightforward.

00:10:04.740 We sound like whiny little bitches when we say it like that.

00:10:07.640 And it also doesn't do anything.

00:10:09.860 Okay.

00:10:10.100 So what?

00:10:10.700 He threw a curve ball.

00:10:11.500 So what?

00:10:11.840 The client did this.

00:10:12.620 So what?

00:10:12.920 The client did that happen.

00:10:13.780 That's part of the game.

00:10:15.320 Totally.

00:10:16.100 So we need to address those things by those after action reviews.

00:10:19.360 Yeah.

00:10:19.640 And it creates a block.

00:10:21.700 Oh, he threw a curve ball.

00:10:23.180 Period.

00:10:24.340 Yes.

00:10:25.060 So now you've accepted the idea that when that happens again, that's a problem.

00:10:30.660 And, and, and now you're not addressing it.

00:10:32.460 Right.

00:10:32.940 Yeah.

00:10:33.780 And by the way, I want to be clear.

00:10:35.040 I'm not calling that young man a whiny little bitch.

00:10:37.280 What's calling?

00:10:38.100 What's his name?

00:10:39.640 What's his name?

00:10:40.720 What's blast this kid?

00:10:41.960 This poor little peewee strike for a backwards K.

00:10:45.380 No, I'm, I'm calling us whiny little bees.

00:10:48.380 I'm trying to clean up my language.

00:10:49.620 We're calling, I'm calling us.

00:10:51.280 Cause we, we hear that thing.

00:10:53.500 We're like, yeah, you should have swung.

00:10:54.600 It's like, no, you should have swung.

00:10:56.320 No, I should have swung.

00:10:58.120 It's not about him.

00:10:59.360 It's about what we do and where we mess up.

00:11:01.380 So yeah.

00:11:02.460 Ryan Mickler, the founder of the order man podcast blast 12 year old boy latest episode

00:11:08.200 for not swinging it at that.

00:11:11.580 Oh man.

00:11:13.200 I'm going to have to ask Chad that out.

00:11:15.880 Yeah.

00:11:17.180 Actually, one of my goals this year was, this is, this is one of my, this was one of my

00:11:21.920 goals.

00:11:22.480 Okay.

00:11:23.280 And you guys take it for what it's worth.

00:11:25.320 Maybe you think it's a stupid goal.

00:11:26.560 It was a goal for me because it's something I need to work on is not to get upset.

00:11:31.780 That was one of my goals for the season while on this call.

00:11:35.480 No, no.

00:11:36.760 For the games.

00:11:37.640 I mean, for baseball games.

00:11:39.320 Yeah.

00:11:39.740 Got it.

00:11:40.340 Yeah.

00:11:40.540 It's not to get upset.

00:11:41.720 Cause I'm a competitor.

00:11:43.280 I want to win.

00:11:44.580 I want the boys to do well.

00:11:46.100 It's in my nature to like drive and push and like, so one of my goals, I have a lot of

00:11:52.060 goals, but one of my goals for the team was, Hey, you're not going to get upset this

00:11:55.580 year.

00:11:56.320 Okay.

00:11:56.620 Things aren't going to go right.

00:11:58.420 I had, I have a young umpire like he's probably 18, 17, 18 years old.

00:12:04.540 Never done it before.

00:12:05.320 He was so scared.

00:12:05.940 He's almost shaking the first game.

00:12:07.340 And he's like, Hey coach, just take it easy on me.

00:12:10.200 And I'm like, yeah, I'll take it easy.

00:12:11.760 Make good calls.

00:12:13.400 Make good calls.

00:12:14.320 And I'll take it easy on you.

00:12:16.280 So he made, he made, he called a pretty decent game.

00:12:20.100 And then I've, I've had him over three or four or five games now.

00:12:24.100 And we built up a little bit of relationship.

00:12:26.000 Cause I, I joke with him and tease him and stuff.

00:12:28.000 And he may, there was a Bach, a pitcher Bach and the umpire out in the field called a Bach

00:12:35.240 and he overruled it.

00:12:37.100 And I was like, bro, hold on timeout.

00:12:40.200 So I called you.

00:12:40.900 I'm like, what are you doing?

00:12:41.720 This, you can't see it from where he can see he's standing right next to it.

00:12:45.080 You can't override it.

00:12:46.120 And he's like, I can do whatever I want.

00:12:49.280 And I was like, good for you, man.

00:12:52.380 Good for you.

00:12:53.600 He was so wrong.

00:12:54.940 He was so wrong.

00:12:56.600 And I just looked at him.

00:12:57.720 I said, okay.

00:12:59.560 And I walked back out to the dugout because my goal is not to get upset.

00:13:03.600 And I talked to him after the game and I was like, Hey man, that was a bad call.

00:13:08.260 And he's like, well, somebody told me, I just need to be like, show a little bit more confidence.

00:13:13.940 And that's all I was trying to do.

00:13:15.000 I said, you did good.

00:13:16.240 You did good.

00:13:17.040 You missed a call, but you did good.

00:13:19.160 And so my rest will get walked over if they do not hold their ground.

00:13:24.080 Yeah.

00:13:24.340 All the time.

00:13:25.280 So I've been pretty good.

00:13:26.860 There's been a few moments, but I've been pretty good.

00:13:28.700 All right.

00:13:29.180 Well, enough about us.

00:13:30.280 Let's get into some questions today.

00:13:32.200 So I'm going to lead off.

00:13:33.420 We have a question from somebody who's a good friend that we meant to get to last week and we didn't.

00:13:37.820 So he asked that we stay, he stay anonymous.

00:13:40.060 So let me just go ahead and ask this question first.

00:13:42.920 First, it's, it's a bit of a long one, but I wanted to ask it because I think it's really

00:13:46.860 valuable and I'm going to, I'm going to try to rush through this.

00:13:49.860 My wife is a teacher and has been a great, in a great district for about eight years.

00:13:53.540 She has an excellent relationship with a principal and administrators.

00:13:57.280 She's one of the hardest working and most effective teachers in the district.

00:14:01.480 Paraphrasing here.

00:14:02.120 She applied for an internal job posting for a specialist position.

00:14:07.700 And after being led to believe that she was quote unquote, virtually guaranteed the position,

00:14:14.340 uh, they ended up giving the job to an external candidate with more experience.

00:14:19.300 When her principal and other administrators, administrators met to break the news,

00:14:24.280 they reassured her that the value of contribution, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:14:27.760 You know, all that kind of stuff like the administrators do.

00:14:30.060 And then they also offered to send her to professional development program.

00:14:33.100 She wanted at their expense.

00:14:34.280 Pretty cool.

00:14:34.760 So his wife is disappointed, but she tells me she's going to give up and stop trying at work,

00:14:41.920 especially quote unquote, making them pay for not selecting her.

00:14:45.240 My wife received the news last Friday.

00:14:46.840 And this morning she texted me to say that her principal said, good morning.

00:14:51.200 My wife ignored her or yes, ignored her.

00:14:54.780 I sensed that she was proud of that as someone who has worked very hard to understand and embody

00:14:59.900 the principles of extreme ownership, though still a work in progress myself.

00:15:03.280 It's very hard for me to hear her talk like this.

00:15:06.320 I've tried to be very empathetic with her through this while also trying to genuinely

00:15:09.500 encourage her to think through her actions, but have no success in this similar situations in the past.

00:15:13.980 Do you have any thoughts on how I could encourage her to be more intentional?

00:15:17.800 And ciao, she responds to the situation, hopefully seeing a long-term strategic impact

00:15:21.380 of her actions rather than the short-term emotional gratification of her current approach.

00:15:27.900 So here's what I think.

00:15:31.120 This has been a couple of weeks now.

00:15:32.420 So I'm actually curious to see how it's going now.

00:15:34.540 But women by nature tend to be more emotional than men.

00:15:38.240 That's not to say men aren't emotional.

00:15:39.600 We certainly are, but women generally will react.

00:15:41.940 I think more emotionally, they're more tapped in and in tune with their emotional response

00:15:46.280 to situations and how it makes them feel.

00:15:48.500 She feels slighted.

00:15:49.780 She feels used.

00:15:51.520 Maybe she feels like she's been ignored in her heart.

00:15:54.740 Yes.

00:15:55.060 And maybe she just needs to actually ignore the principle for a couple of days and then

00:16:01.000 it all blow over her chest.

00:16:02.940 Yeah.

00:16:03.300 And everything will be fine, you know?

00:16:05.160 And I'd be really curious to see how that goes because yeah, it is a bit of an emotional

00:16:11.720 response.

00:16:12.480 It's, I think it's understandable, but another thing that I see here too, is that we tend,

00:16:18.420 and when I say we, myself included, I have high expectations.

00:16:23.760 I have really high expectations of myself.

00:16:26.600 I have high expectations of others.

00:16:29.980 I have high expectations of the circumstances I find myself in.

00:16:34.280 And when I feel like somebody says to me, oh, you're guaranteed a job, I've really had

00:16:39.820 to lower my expectations because I'm operating now on a false sense of expectations.

00:16:45.260 If I want to buy a house, which I've been in the process of, I put an offer in, I'm like,

00:16:48.860 oh sweet, I get all excited because I have the expectation that it will close and then

00:16:52.120 it doesn't.

00:16:52.880 And then what happens?

00:16:53.480 You drop off the ledge.

00:16:54.320 So I've, I'm learning, I'll say it that way.

00:16:57.720 I'm learning to let go of the expectations of circumstances, of other people.

00:17:04.780 Now there might be some situations where we have an obligation and the expectations are

00:17:09.260 clear, but these covert contracts that we've talked about, and she was operating and got

00:17:15.860 her hopes up on a false expectation.

00:17:18.540 And so I think it's important to have those conversations.

00:17:20.980 And the last thing I would say is, and look, I know with my own personal situation with

00:17:27.940 regards to my failing marriage or failed marriage, I'm one to speak, so to say, but

00:17:34.360 I will say this.

00:17:35.680 I wish I would have solved or attempted to solve less of my wife's problems.

00:17:41.060 I really wish I would have done that among other things.

00:17:45.120 I thought, and I talked to her about this maybe four or five days ago.

00:17:49.340 She had, she had an issue and I said, Hey, you know, I'm here to help if you need help,

00:17:54.460 but also I'm trying to respect what you want.

00:17:57.160 And, you know, I know you're, you're, you're capable of dealing with this on your own.

00:18:01.620 And so those are your problems to solve.

00:18:03.540 Those aren't my problems.

00:18:05.400 And I, and I said it respectfully, I wasn't being a dick about it.

00:18:08.320 And I said, if you, if you need help, if you want me to, and I basically just said, Hey,

00:18:12.040 how are you going to deal with it?

00:18:12.960 I was caring.

00:18:13.620 I was empathetic.

00:18:14.220 Like, what are you going to do?

00:18:15.100 How do you care about it?

00:18:16.740 Or how do you feel about it?

00:18:18.500 And I think that would be more of the approach I would take with your wife is not like, Hey,

00:18:23.080 how can I teach her to be this?

00:18:24.880 And how can I teach her to do that?

00:18:26.860 What I would do is I would try to just communicate with her and say, Hey, how do you feel?

00:18:33.440 Oh man, why does it make you feel that way?

00:18:35.880 Oh yeah.

00:18:36.420 I'd be so upset too.

00:18:38.660 Yeah.

00:18:39.080 Like, how did you feel when you ignored the principal?

00:18:41.420 Do you feel like that was a good thing?

00:18:43.800 Or like, what do you think?

00:18:45.320 Genuinely just go in there with curiosity and then just affirm how she feels because we

00:18:49.420 would probably feel the same way.

00:18:51.780 And then that you might become the little vent that she needs rather than the professional

00:18:57.840 setting, because we don't want her to vent on her principal and administrators.

00:19:01.920 Cause that's going to get her into more trouble down the road.

00:19:04.280 But that that's a really good place for a husband to fit into.

00:19:08.760 Like you don't need to go solve it.

00:19:10.620 Don't like, don't solve it.

00:19:11.760 Just let her vent, like give her an outlet to vent and encourage that venting process.

00:19:17.440 And your wife's motivated.

00:19:19.600 She's ambitious.

00:19:21.100 Obviously she's not going to act like this forever.

00:19:24.300 She's just upset.

00:19:25.600 So help her get that feeling of being upset out with you, not at you, but with you so that

00:19:31.500 she can then go back and focus on her career.

00:19:33.900 Actively.

00:19:34.620 That's what I would say.

00:19:35.220 Totally, man, as we get older, that's like been the most, one of the more fundamental,

00:19:42.280 like critical principles I've picked up is when do I give advice and if people's asking

00:19:49.740 for it or not, or if, or if the conditions, right.

00:19:54.220 And if it's not, then us preaching at people is not going to, it's not going to make a difference.

00:19:59.240 Right.

00:19:59.460 A lot of people aren't even the right mindset, right.

00:20:01.620 To be able even to have that conversation.

00:20:03.840 So just, I don't know that, that is so profound.

00:20:06.680 I did, I did love this example.

00:20:09.300 If you don't mind me, like I know the, the principal's not listening, but something that

00:20:15.700 they, that they, they said here that he said here was around, they set the expectation ultimately

00:20:22.360 that she virtually had the position a little bit of a, it sounds like she got some, some,

00:20:27.300 somewhat of a softball pitch of like, it's looking good, Ryan, you got this.

00:20:31.620 This, you know, this position, it's looking great.

00:20:34.380 And that was, that's what I call it.

00:20:36.220 That's a maybe.

00:20:37.760 And we do this all the time.

00:20:40.020 I was just speaking with a handful of people about this two weeks ago.

00:20:44.280 And this is fascinating.

00:20:45.260 I picked this up from Huberman, actually.

00:20:46.900 He did a podcast around this subject.

00:20:49.160 So check this out.

00:20:51.300 The amount of dopamine that you receive.

00:20:54.440 So what's come up with three scenarios.

00:20:56.220 Your kid says, dad, Ryan, can I have some ice cream?

00:21:00.060 And you say, yes.

00:21:00.980 And you give him some ice cream.

00:21:02.400 That's a percentage of dopamine of excitement of, of getting ice cream of something good like

00:21:08.060 that.

00:21:08.400 Okay.

00:21:09.020 He says, dad, can I get some ice cream later today?

00:21:12.700 And you say, yes, maybe that releases more dopamine than the actual ice cream.

00:21:20.980 The anticipation of something coming, the excitement of something coming in the future

00:21:28.380 is more exciting to the human brain than the actual just receiving it.

00:21:34.180 Oh, that's interesting.

00:21:34.740 And, and even if you use the word maybe, which is like code for all parents of, I don't want

00:21:41.960 to decide right now.

00:21:42.940 And I'm going to tell you no later.

00:21:44.640 It's no, yeah, it's definitely a no.

00:21:47.120 And, and this is, I think we do this in the professional world.

00:21:50.200 We do this all the time.

00:21:51.720 Hey, kid, man, I've been working really hard.

00:21:54.180 What can I do to get that promotion, to get that comp adjustment and level up?

00:21:58.460 Oh man, you know what?

00:21:59.500 And we give them elusive answer, gray space, because we don't want to get into the

00:22:04.720 minutia of the detail in the moment, or maybe we're letting them down soft.

00:22:09.440 And so we lead them to think that there's this opportunity for them.

00:22:13.640 We give them a quote unquote, maybe.

00:22:16.040 And then next quarter we go, oh no, it's not going to happen this quarter.

00:22:19.920 Dump.

00:22:21.160 We got to be very, very clear and precise in our language, in a professional setting where

00:22:27.220 we don't lead people on because the amount of excitement that comes with it is way higher

00:22:33.000 than the actual job itself.

00:22:35.020 And then they just take a huge hit from a dopamine perspective.

00:22:39.080 And now you get this, this retaliation, because it felt really exciting to know that that was

00:22:46.240 a job opportunity coming down the pipe.

00:22:48.720 Very interesting.

00:22:50.260 It is.

00:22:50.920 And I like that you, you took it a little bit of a different angle than I thought you were.

00:22:54.220 Cause I thought you were going to say, Hey, be careful because people say maybe, and what

00:22:57.300 they really mean is no, which is true.

00:22:58.820 But I like the angle that you took, which is be precise with your language.

00:23:02.240 Don't be an asshole.

00:23:03.560 Like if it's a no, then say no.

00:23:06.220 Say no.

00:23:06.920 Yeah.

00:23:07.160 Right.

00:23:07.420 If your kids are like, Hey dad, can we do this thing?

00:23:10.540 Yes.

00:23:11.020 At three o'clock or no, not today.

00:23:13.460 Like, just say that totally.

00:23:16.280 We're so weak and we're so soft and we're so scared about it.

00:23:19.380 It's not scared of other people.

00:23:20.780 It's scared about how we'll feel when we let people down.

00:23:23.000 So let's not confuse what it is selfish.

00:23:25.480 Like you're not scared about how your kid will react.

00:23:28.260 You're scared about how you will feel when your kid is disappointed.

00:23:32.640 So it's a self preservation thing.

00:23:34.780 It's selfish to say maybe.

00:23:37.200 So your answer is yes or no.

00:23:39.320 And there might be situations where it's, I need a more information, but that has to be

00:23:43.820 accurate.

00:23:44.580 Like if it's an, I need more information, which is maybe then it like that better be true.

00:23:50.840 It better not be just you kicking the can down the road.

00:23:53.800 Hey, Kip, you said another thing on when to offer advice.

00:23:56.660 It's a lot like a woman who's pregnant.

00:23:59.860 You don't ever ask a man, never asks about a woman's pregnancy until the crown of the

00:24:06.420 head is coming out.

00:24:09.120 Like you don't ever ask.

00:24:10.680 I don't care if she's nine months.

00:24:12.440 I don't care if she's, you know, like contracting nothing until that baby's head crowns.

00:24:19.820 You don't ask about a woman's pregnancy.

00:24:22.100 It's the same thing with offering advice.

00:24:24.740 Unless somebody says, what should I do?

00:24:29.440 Yeah.

00:24:29.880 The default is asking questions, being curious, offering no advice.

00:24:36.820 And if you have a question, it is acceptable to say, hey, hon, are you looking for me to

00:24:44.280 give you an answer to that?

00:24:45.200 Like, do you need my opinion on this?

00:24:46.740 And more often than not, I think she'll probably say no.

00:24:50.540 Say, oh, okay, cool.

00:24:51.320 I just, I want to make sure I have some thoughts, but if, if you don't need that for me, you

00:24:55.180 got this.

00:24:56.420 Totally.

00:24:57.340 So be careful on that.

00:24:58.600 All right.

00:24:58.760 What's next?

00:25:00.020 All right.

00:25:00.300 We're going to pull some questions from the gram to follow Ryan there.

00:25:04.200 It's at Ryan Mickler.

00:25:05.640 Uh, I love the Instagram names, right?

00:25:08.700 G and Parker.

00:25:09.560 Do you have any experience with, or have you interviewed anyone regarding mindfulness

00:25:14.260 meditations, mindfulness meditations?

00:25:18.040 Uh, not much meditation, but a lot of our gut, like somebody mindfulness, somebody that

00:25:24.340 comes to mind is like Jim quick.

00:25:26.600 I know you're a huge fan of, uh, Tom bill, you talks a lot about that.

00:25:31.980 Um, Mark divine is somebody that has some meditative techniques through what he calls

00:25:36.740 box breathing.

00:25:38.180 I mean, most of our conversations get into what I would say the thoughtfulness territory.

00:25:47.920 And I think that's what you're talking about now.

00:25:50.420 I don't, I can't recall right off hand of like this one thing that was just about mindfulness,

00:25:55.300 but if you really listen with an ear towards mindfulness, thoughtfulness, I think you'll

00:26:00.860 find it just about every episode because that's what successful people do.

00:26:05.260 They're very aware.

00:26:06.720 They're very in tune with how they're feeling.

00:26:09.740 They're very in tune with the environment and world around them and how they're interacting

00:26:13.620 within that world.

00:26:14.760 You take a lot of ownership over the things that are happening in their lives.

00:26:18.380 It's just what successful people do.

00:26:20.500 So, so I, I think, I think every episode with few exceptions would fall into that camp.

00:26:28.480 Totally.

00:26:29.300 Yeah.

00:26:29.700 I totally agree.

00:26:30.880 Uh, Joel seven, seven, seven, are you and Breckin going to continue doing the man in

00:26:36.800 the making podcast?

00:26:39.000 This is a hard one for me to answer this.

00:26:41.400 Um, but let's just say it for what it is yesterday.

00:26:44.580 We were out shooting, shooting bows, him and I, and he's like, Hey dad, I don't think I

00:26:48.140 want to do the man in the making podcast anymore.

00:26:50.360 And I said, Oh yeah.

00:26:51.320 Like we had kind of talked about that.

00:26:53.040 I said, well, you know what, why is that?

00:26:55.480 And with everything that's been going on in my life, you know, I, I, I made that feel

00:27:00.440 less important than I should have that.

00:27:03.980 I wish I would have done differently.

00:27:06.860 And I, you know, I missed episodes or, you know, said things that made him feel like it

00:27:11.840 wasn't important or he wasn't important.

00:27:14.160 Uh, man, I hate talking about this, but I really want to be honest with you guys because

00:27:18.120 this is important for you as fathers of your children.

00:27:22.280 And I, I took on a different business venture and he's like, man, you took that venture on.

00:27:27.160 And before we even got a chance to launch ours and I just really made him feel unimportant

00:27:31.880 and it deflated his sales, you know, it just, it was deflating to him.

00:27:38.600 So him and I actually have a really good relationship.

00:27:40.880 And yesterday, here's the thing I told him and I'm paraphrasing, but I said, you know, son,

00:27:44.680 I've, I've made a lot of mess ups.

00:27:46.660 I've made a lot of bad decisions.

00:27:48.440 I've said things that have hurt you.

00:27:50.540 I haven't said things that maybe I should like, I, but I'm learning, you know, and, and

00:27:55.160 I'm not that same guy that I was a year ago.

00:27:59.160 And I know that's going to take a long time to believe, but if you don't want to do the

00:28:03.400 podcast or the movement anymore, I understand, you know, that's your decision to make.

00:28:07.180 Like if that changes, I'll be here.

00:28:09.660 If it looks different, I'll be here.

00:28:11.440 And we're just going to move in a different direction.

00:28:14.400 You know, we got a lot of hunts planned this year.

00:28:16.400 We have a lot of cool opportunities to spend time together in different capacities.

00:28:19.700 And I think this will apply good for men who have kids where they're not with you all the

00:28:24.920 time is I think it becomes harder to relate because they're not always there with you, but

00:28:31.720 I'm okay with doing things my kids are interested in and then using that as ways to connect.

00:28:39.580 And so if it's not man in the making, that's okay.

00:28:41.440 Like we spent a nice 30, 40 minutes shooting bows, laughing, you know, poking at each other,

00:28:47.640 teasing each other, um, talking about upcoming hunts.

00:28:50.660 And that's good enough.

00:28:52.560 You know, he also said that he's not interested in putting all of his, you know, public information

00:28:58.480 out there and have his Instagram more closed down.

00:29:00.940 And I said, you know, I can actually appreciate and respect that.

00:29:05.280 I can appreciate and respect that.

00:29:07.140 So, you know, that's where we're at.

00:29:08.880 Maybe down the road, it changes, but I don't have, um, any preconceived notions and I don't

00:29:13.240 have any, uh, plan or, or deliberate intent to steer it that way.

00:29:16.600 I'm going to let him steer the ship a little bit with me by his side and say, Hey, watch

00:29:20.280 out for the thing.

00:29:21.740 And, you know, use, use the, the forces here.

00:29:25.220 And like, and that's where it's at.

00:29:28.300 Yeah.

00:29:28.860 Coach Hick man lifts.

00:29:31.900 What do you do when a group outgrows its weakest member?

00:29:36.200 Good question.

00:29:37.980 I actually really liked this question.

00:29:41.280 It depends on the setting.

00:29:42.740 Number one, if it's a more formal professional setting, then you have to call the guy actually

00:29:47.340 call the guy out always, but in a more professional setting, there should be an X.

00:29:51.460 If it's a professional setting, there's an expectation of performance.

00:29:54.660 And if that performance is not being met, then the answer is you have to tell that person,

00:30:00.760 Kip, you know, the expectation you're not meeting it.

00:30:04.260 So what are you going to do to improve?

00:30:06.100 And you don't kick them out the first time you ever have the conversation, give the poor

00:30:08.980 man a chance.

00:30:10.280 So here's what I, we need to see from you.

00:30:11.960 And then how can we help you?

00:30:13.380 How can we support you?

00:30:14.320 Training information, access to other people, surroundings, tools, what give them everything

00:30:20.520 that you possibly can give the man a chance.

00:30:23.880 That's a professional setting, a personal environment.

00:30:27.440 I still think you call the guy out Kip.

00:30:29.480 If you and I are friends and I see you slacking, I'm going to say something like, Hey man, like

00:30:33.780 I love you, brother.

00:30:35.180 Like I, I want you to win.

00:30:36.520 I want you to care or I care about you and I want you to be successful.

00:30:39.600 But man, I see the way that, you know, things are going at home.

00:30:43.260 It doesn't look good.

00:30:43.980 Is every, is everything okay or professionally or financially or physically?

00:30:48.360 Like I would say that is every, like you've put on 20 pounds in the last couple of months.

00:30:52.360 Like, what are you saying?

00:30:54.000 Everything you, you look, you look good.

00:30:57.280 We'll see how it goes when we race this weekend, but I'm going to be struggling.

00:31:02.040 Dude, I have not been running at all.

00:31:04.240 This is going to be a crap.

00:31:08.000 Yeah.

00:31:08.400 It's going to take anyway.

00:31:09.740 So with this, uh, yeah, call him up, call him up.

00:31:14.220 And I like that term better.

00:31:15.240 I heard that from Wes Watson.

00:31:16.180 I was at an event where Wes spoke and he was on fire and he's dropping the F-bomb every other word.

00:31:20.620 My two sons were there and like, well, this guy who spent 10 years in the state penitentiary dropping F-bombs.

00:31:25.680 Their kids are like scared.

00:31:27.980 I was scared.

00:31:29.320 My kids were scared.

00:31:30.960 But he said, I'm not calling you mother F-ers out.

00:31:33.480 I'm calling you up.

00:31:35.020 I'm like, I like that distinction.

00:31:36.500 Calling you up.

00:31:37.480 I like that too.

00:31:38.840 Yeah.

00:31:39.020 It's a cool distinction.

00:31:39.800 I like that.

00:31:40.000 And I think you should do that because I wish somebody would have done that with me a year ago.

00:31:44.620 I wish somebody would have said, Hey man, I see what's going on and I don't like what I see.

00:31:49.400 And I love you and I care about you.

00:31:51.020 And so what are we going to do about this?

00:31:54.180 Give the man a chance.

00:31:56.020 And if he doesn't, then I wouldn't say you're no longer part of the club, but you over time gradually phases it out.

00:32:03.620 You know, he gets less invites to things.

00:32:05.960 He gets less access to you.

00:32:09.680 It's, it just happens kind of organically over time.

00:32:12.900 You want to be intentional about it and fill that time with spent on doing things that are more meaningful.

00:32:18.520 But I, but I wouldn't say do it passively.

00:32:21.520 That's the problem.

00:32:23.000 Most guys will just phase their friends out.

00:32:25.360 And the guy's like, Oh, like I thought we were friends.

00:32:28.280 And now these guys don't even like, they're going on a hunt.

00:32:30.620 They didn't call me like be a man about it.

00:32:33.620 And a man confronts, a man deals with adversity and challenge head on.

00:32:38.420 He doesn't just like go away because somebody will be uncomfortable.

00:32:42.040 That's what everybody else will do.

00:32:44.560 And that's not the kind of men we want to be.

00:32:46.940 We want to be the guy that says, Kip, look, man, we're, we're doing big things here.

00:32:52.040 You, you're a buddy.

00:32:52.960 I've been, we went to high school to get, I love you like a brother, but I have things that

00:32:57.960 I want to accomplish in life and they're big and they're audacious.

00:33:02.060 And I need you to be on board with that.

00:33:04.300 And I need you to step it up.

00:33:06.140 And if you can't, that's okay.

00:33:08.020 I'm here to support you.

00:33:09.120 However I can, I'm going this way.

00:33:12.120 You come with me, but if you come with me, you better carry your own pack and you better

00:33:16.940 be capable of carrying somebody else's pack.

00:33:19.260 If they go down, can you do that?

00:33:21.220 Do you want to do that?

00:33:22.120 Like, give the man a chance.

00:33:25.240 That's what frustrates me more than anything else is people will leave.

00:33:28.420 And they're like, I gave him plenty of chances.

00:33:29.920 I'm like, really?

00:33:30.260 Did you ever talk with anybody?

00:33:32.100 Well, no.

00:33:33.120 Okay.

00:33:33.280 Then you didn't give him a fair chance.

00:33:35.960 Marriage has happened to, oh, my wife, you know, she didn't change.

00:33:39.340 She wasn't improved.

00:33:40.000 She wasn't getting better.

00:33:40.880 And so I just decided that it was a divorce.

00:33:42.680 Did you ever talk to her about those things?

00:33:44.360 No, she should have just known women do that too.

00:33:48.580 Oh, he should have just known.

00:33:49.700 Well, we don't know, but give the person a chance.

00:33:52.960 And we do that by being men and confronting these situations head on.

00:33:57.440 Totally.

00:33:57.540 And in that professional setting, it shouldn't, if you don't have metrics or if you don't

00:34:02.640 have, it has to be specific, right?

00:34:05.940 Like you can't just be like elusive, like, Hey, Ryan, you know, you're underperforming.

00:34:10.720 What does it mean?

00:34:12.020 Like, what is, what is, is exceptional performance even look like?

00:34:15.820 Like you have to break it down because most people, to be frank, most people, when in a

00:34:22.900 work setting, when they're underperforming, they don't think they're underperforming.

00:34:26.500 And a lot of it has to do with the fact that we are, we're not clear and concise in regards

00:34:31.500 to what exceptional performance looks like.

00:34:34.660 It's got to be clear and it can't be some elusive thing.

00:34:37.980 And if you say, well, Kip, I don't have metrics.

00:34:41.220 Like I don't have a way to quantify that, then you better figure it out because it needs,

00:34:46.920 someone needs to know.

00:34:48.280 And how beautiful is that too?

00:34:50.320 If you can go to an employee and say, Hey, you're underperforming.

00:34:53.100 I want the best from you.

00:34:55.080 It's good for the company.

00:34:56.320 We're all progressing, all that kind of good stuff.

00:34:58.500 And I say, Ryan, this is what exceptional performance looks like.

00:35:01.920 X, Y, Z, this, you lay out what needs to happen.

00:35:06.100 Then you can consciously make a decision and say, okay, this isn't about personality.

00:35:11.000 This isn't about, well, my boss just has it out against me or whatever.

00:35:14.380 He laid it out.

00:35:15.460 This is what I need to do.

00:35:16.800 And this is what it looks like.

00:35:17.860 And then they can execute.

00:35:19.460 But if we keep it elusive, then it's all hearsay.

00:35:22.800 And they're going to make the assumption that it has to do with personality or they don't

00:35:26.660 like me or something else because you're giving them zero evidence of what they need to do

00:35:31.360 to perform.

00:35:32.820 Yeah.

00:35:33.260 Well, I think marriages are very much the same way.

00:35:35.400 You know, I thought for a long time, I was like, oh man, I'm doing awesome.

00:35:39.980 Until the day I realized I wasn't doing awesome.

00:35:43.520 What would it have looked like if I would have known?

00:35:46.240 Now, who's that on?

00:35:47.100 Well, that's on me.

00:35:47.880 Like I need to have a more realistic evaluation of my performance.

00:35:53.980 You know, that's important, extreme ownership, but it's also, it's a two-party thing.

00:35:57.440 So we owe it to each other, the people that we commit to, whether it's professional or personal

00:36:01.400 to call a person up.

00:36:04.280 Hey, I'm not getting what I need and here's what I need from you.

00:36:09.920 That's, and I'm not saying word it that way, but if you have that mindset in a relationship,

00:36:15.360 again, professionally or personally, here's what I need from you.

00:36:18.880 Then the ball is in your court kit because now you can decide if you can give that or

00:36:22.860 have a desire to give that to me or not.

00:36:24.300 And if you don't, then the relationship is, it's not up to me to keep the relationship

00:36:29.380 together.

00:36:29.940 You aren't willing to, or aren't able to give me what I need.

00:36:33.300 And so I'm going to go out there and find a business partner or a relational partner who,

00:36:40.680 who can, we can satisfy each other, you know?

00:36:43.220 And so I think it goes both ways.

00:36:46.060 Yep.

00:36:46.440 I mean, the power of that conversation itself, you know, if your spouse comes to you and says,

00:36:51.080 you know what, I just wish you were more caring and affectionate.

00:36:54.880 We should ask then, what does that look like?

00:36:58.160 Typical day.

00:36:58.860 What does that look like?

00:37:00.460 That's, and that's the question we're never asking.

00:37:02.520 And there's huge evidence in that, right?

00:37:05.780 It's like, well, it's, it's you coming home or you're not so grumpy all the time or it's

00:37:10.420 this, or it's that.

00:37:11.400 Like we have to go through the details and flesh that out.

00:37:15.380 Yeah.

00:37:16.240 Yeah.

00:37:16.900 Definitely.

00:37:17.380 Good stuff.

00:37:18.100 All right.

00:37:20.020 I'm hesitant because I, I know you well enough to know that you might hate this question,

00:37:25.240 but I'm, I, but I think there's value in it.

00:37:27.560 And I hate, I don't hate, I don't hate any questions, just certain people.

00:37:31.340 Isn't that how it goes?

00:37:32.820 All right.

00:37:33.540 Yep.

00:37:34.060 Here, Travis, Dr. Kyle, Travis, Ryan, if you could pay for three skills, what would they

00:37:40.560 be?

00:37:40.880 And why, if is the part that I don't like about if you could pay, because you actually

00:37:45.600 can pay for skills, but what are three skills maybe that Ryan, you feel would be critical

00:37:52.200 that are maybe on your radar?

00:37:54.940 Yeah.

00:37:55.020 I'm not going to be so analytical in this question.

00:37:57.040 Cause you're right.

00:37:57.540 Yeah.

00:37:57.660 You can pay for skill development and we should, we shouldn't be investing in our skills.

00:38:01.860 The spirit of the question is, Hey, if you could just pick any three skills that you

00:38:06.220 could just like have overnight, what would you have?

00:38:09.120 Right.

00:38:10.620 Uh, communication is always high on my list.

00:38:14.760 It's always so high on my list.

00:38:16.860 If I can learn to be a better, and I'm a pretty decent communicator now, but if I, if there's

00:38:22.040 any way for me to develop better communication, I will always go for that because there's

00:38:27.800 no part of our lives that don't exist around and with other people and the better we can

00:38:33.920 learn to interact and engage with others, the more successful we'll be all the time.

00:38:38.460 Another skill that I could use stand to use is empathy.

00:38:43.700 That's not high on my, my IQ, my emotional relational IQ.

00:38:48.900 It's not like I have, I have very little empathy, you know, even with my children, if something

00:38:55.500 happens, I'm like, so what like shit, like literally like in my mind, I'm like, I don't

00:38:59.600 care.

00:39:00.560 And it's, it's hard because I do care and I want to care and I want to connect.

00:39:06.700 But, but for me, it's like, walk it off, like deal with it.

00:39:11.660 It's just, it's my attitude.

00:39:13.760 So communication, empathy, uh, the third skill that I would like to develop is, I don't know.

00:39:24.160 I'll come back to that one.

00:39:24.860 Do you have any skills that you want to develop kid?

00:39:27.340 I think the number one thing that I need to work on.

00:39:31.620 How's that is my skill that I'd focus on is, and, and my, what I want to say is eternal

00:39:38.520 perspective, but it's, it's gratitude.

00:39:40.880 I feel far too often I latch on in my day and works not the way it should be.

00:39:47.600 And the house isn't going the way it should be.

00:39:49.780 And I make all those things way more important than being grateful for all the things that

00:39:56.280 I do have.

00:39:56.860 And I think I'd be far more pleasant person for my kids, my wife, and all the people around

00:40:03.300 me.

00:40:03.560 If I was just present to like, that I'm alive and that I have opportunities and, and more

00:40:12.280 joyful.

00:40:13.300 So when, when you were talking about that Kip about, I, what went through my mind is the

00:40:19.220 third skill I would have.

00:40:20.560 And, and I thought it like 10 seconds before you said it is the ability to find joy.

00:40:25.780 Yeah.

00:40:26.220 Like, I don't, I'm a lot, I obviously were a lot of like different personalities, maybe

00:40:31.280 different way of seeing things.

00:40:32.660 But ultimately at the end of the day, it's all about effectiveness, production, getting

00:40:36.660 the job done, like being successful.

00:40:40.600 Yeah.

00:40:41.100 And I don't, I'm trying to find more joy in my life, you know, where it's like, I don't

00:40:48.500 need to be productive right now.

00:40:49.940 And, and here's the thing that's funny.

00:40:52.120 I, so I see a therapist, I've been seeing a guy for like three weeks and I, and I've seen

00:40:56.160 therapists in the past and I just started seeing this guy.

00:40:59.020 I like him because, well, number one, he's a man and he's not.

00:41:02.120 And he like says things that make you feel really uncomfortable.

00:41:05.580 So one thing I said to him the other day, like calling you up a little bit.

00:41:10.740 Totally.

00:41:11.380 Totally.

00:41:11.820 I said, so the other day I'm like, I was talking about my attitude and the way that I approach

00:41:15.620 life and business and the things that I get done and production, the things that we're

00:41:18.840 talking about.

00:41:20.060 And I, and he's like, well, maybe that isn't so good for you.

00:41:23.340 And I said, well, what are you talking about?

00:41:25.040 Like, look what I've accomplished.

00:41:26.100 I have this and this and this and this and this and this.

00:41:27.760 He's like, yeah.

00:41:28.720 And you just lost your wife and your kids.

00:41:32.460 Shit.

00:41:33.360 He said that.

00:41:34.600 Yeah.

00:41:35.480 And I was like, oh, like shackles up, like ready to fight.

00:41:41.640 And I was like, no, he's right.

00:41:43.180 Like, that's right.

00:41:43.920 Actually.

00:41:44.980 And he's like, so yeah, you're awesome at those things.

00:41:47.560 You're amazing.

00:41:48.300 How's that working out for you?

00:41:49.780 Yeah.

00:41:50.000 And he said, Ryan, you need to find more joy in your life and happiness.

00:41:56.720 He said, happiness.

00:41:57.520 I'm like, that's not the purpose of life.

00:41:59.380 He said, it is for you.

00:42:01.820 Somebody who's lazy, somebody who's rebellious, somebody who, you know, is a little flippant,

00:42:10.300 loosey goosey.

00:42:11.540 They don't need more happiness in their life.

00:42:13.860 They need more structure.

00:42:15.100 They need more discipline.

00:42:16.040 They need more focus.

00:42:17.860 You don't need that.

00:42:18.980 You have that in droves.

00:42:22.580 And I said, well, what if I lose some of that because I try to like relax and find joy?

00:42:28.800 He's like, that's impossible for you to lose that.

00:42:31.660 It's impossible for you not to be successful.

00:42:33.860 It's impossible, literally impossible for you not to drive and be motivated.

00:42:38.880 It's impossible.

00:42:40.380 We just need to add another ingredient to round you out because not only am I going to help

00:42:45.520 you be more successful, I'm going to help you have more fun doing it too.

00:42:51.080 And so I cringe when people say, I'll just be happy.

00:42:53.520 I've mocked being happy on this podcast.

00:42:55.860 He's like, you need to find more happiness, more joy.

00:43:03.320 He used the term buoyant.

00:43:04.980 You need more buoyancy in your life.

00:43:07.520 Yeah.

00:43:07.940 Which is true.

00:43:08.540 Asia said this to me years ago, and it was really profound.

00:43:15.180 It was something I really needed.

00:43:16.900 And I haven't forgotten.

00:43:18.500 I think about it often, actually.

00:43:20.160 But she said, Kip, you're really great.

00:43:23.920 You get lots of things done and you're really good at what you do.

00:43:27.800 But if you're doing it and you're miserable, no one's going to want to follow you.

00:43:33.860 Yeah.

00:43:34.440 And I was like, because even with my kids, what do I want to teach them?

00:43:39.540 Work ethic.

00:43:41.000 I want to teach you, you do things right.

00:43:42.740 If you're going to do something, you do it right.

00:43:44.420 I want them to be effective and whatever.

00:43:47.360 And because of my attitude in that teaching is a negative attitude, they don't want to even

00:43:54.300 listen.

00:43:55.360 Because who wants to be miserable?

00:43:58.520 Right.

00:43:58.820 They're looking at me and going, wait, yeah, being productive comes with being miserable

00:44:04.020 like you.

00:44:05.020 Yeah, no, thanks.

00:44:06.720 I don't want to be unhappy.

00:44:09.380 I'll avoid your counsel and your example.

00:44:12.140 That doesn't sound appealing.

00:44:13.960 Yeah.

00:44:14.360 Man.

00:44:15.320 And it's so hard.

00:44:16.080 Even if you don't want me to share one more story, because this is really funny.

00:44:19.280 So the tile in one of the rooms in one of the bedrooms is getting done.

00:44:23.740 And we look in there and it's beautiful tile.

00:44:26.240 And Asia goes, what do you think?

00:44:29.120 And I'm like, man, it looks beautiful.

00:44:30.900 And I stand in the shower and I look at the seam of the tile going all the way down and

00:44:36.180 halfway.

00:44:36.680 It's crooked.

00:44:38.800 The seam jumps over to the left.

00:44:40.740 And I'm like, man, seriously.

00:44:43.640 And she's like, what?

00:44:44.640 I'm like, it's not even lined up.

00:44:46.820 It's like crooked right here.

00:44:48.380 And she goes, I don't think, I think that's just normal and that a lot of bathrooms and

00:44:56.400 tiles aren't perfect.

00:44:59.620 And I like, pause for a second.

00:45:01.480 I want mine to be perfect.

00:45:03.400 Exactly.

00:45:04.080 And I'm thinking that that's probably okay and normal.

00:45:08.200 And there I am pissed off at something that will probably never be unless I was willing

00:45:14.640 to do it myself.

00:45:15.480 And if I did it myself, guess what?

00:45:17.900 It's going to come with collateral damage.

00:45:21.100 Oh, yeah.

00:45:21.800 I'm going to redo this tile and I'm going to be pissed off while I do it.

00:45:24.860 I'm going to probably waste twice as much tile to make sure it's straight.

00:45:28.980 For what price?

00:45:31.360 For what maybe someone takes a shower in that shower someday and goes, oh, it seems slightly

00:45:38.440 off, but probably would never notice it other than me and you.

00:45:42.360 I would notice it.

00:45:43.440 I would notice it for sure.

00:45:44.840 But you know what I mean?

00:45:45.420 What's the price of that?

00:45:46.760 Actually, when I go to your place, I'm going to take a shower in there and you say, what's

00:45:50.800 going on?

00:45:51.140 No, I'm going to go to Asia.

00:45:52.540 I'm going to say, what's going on with the shower?

00:45:54.240 Who did that?

00:45:55.060 Why is it all crooked like that?

00:45:57.900 No, what I'm going to do is when you come, I'm going to give you that room on purpose

00:46:02.300 just so you're pissed off when you think you're shouting me.

00:46:06.020 Yeah.

00:46:06.920 Look, I mean, we're broke.

00:46:08.140 On the spirit of what we're talking about, I think you're, yeah, I mean, you and me are

00:46:11.340 cut from the same cloth as far as that goes.

00:46:13.860 In the spirit of finding more joy, I'll tell you what I did yesterday and it was an awesome

00:46:18.680 day.

00:46:19.080 We went to church, had the kids with me, so we went to church.

00:46:22.020 Um, my ex-wife and I actually still go to church together with the kids because that's

00:46:26.620 important, uh, that, that congruency in our lives.

00:46:29.840 And then we, I took the kids to breakfast after church.

00:46:33.240 So we did that.

00:46:33.940 And then, uh, I finished painting and putting together my daughter's bike that we worked

00:46:40.380 on, found a cheap bike and we made it awesome.

00:46:43.020 So finish that, uh, got a new tent.

00:46:47.200 Uh, so me and my youngest set up the tent in the backyard and just sat in the tent.

00:46:52.380 Like, that's it.

00:46:53.060 We just sat in there, shot the bow with my oldest, played a few video games, went on a

00:46:59.240 bike ride, it was a really good, unproductive day.

00:47:04.740 And I say unproductive by our standards of production.

00:47:08.480 And there was no like, oh, I also put a little fake nails on my daughter, her little fingernails.

00:47:16.120 I said, I'll put these on, but you owe me 15 minutes of scratching my arm.

00:47:19.060 If I put those on, got that out of the deal, but it was just good.

00:47:23.800 And it was nice.

00:47:25.940 It was exactly what I needed.

00:47:27.720 And I need more of those in my life.

00:47:29.380 I think a lot of men listening to this probably do as well.

00:47:32.160 Well, this weekend, obviously my weekend was focused on work on that house.

00:47:36.620 And Friday night, when we drove down there, I told the end, I'm like, Hey, let's grab

00:47:40.300 the jet skis and then let's throw them in the water because I don't want this to be no

00:47:47.200 longer fun to come here.

00:47:49.580 You know what I mean?

00:47:50.320 On purpose.

00:47:51.200 And so on Sunday, I was like, Hey, I'm going to clean up.

00:47:54.260 I'm going to do my thing.

00:47:55.140 You guys all go play in the water.

00:47:57.660 Yeah.

00:47:58.540 That way they're getting, you know, it's like, oh, it's still fun, right.

00:48:02.040 To go, to go down to that house.

00:48:04.060 It's not just work and dredge and you don't, I mean, me grinding it out with them all the

00:48:08.900 time, you know, I don't know.

00:48:11.700 All right.

00:48:13.300 Sorry.

00:48:13.880 We're, we're rambling a little bit, or at least I'm rambling.

00:48:17.460 This is good.

00:48:18.240 Abel Toms, would you recommend, uh, getting married and why?

00:48:27.460 Uh, I believe in marriage.

00:48:29.360 I really do.

00:48:30.520 I believe in marriage.

00:48:31.980 I don't believe in a, a paper that the government says we now recognize you and acknowledge you

00:48:36.540 as partners, but I don't believe that to a spouse.

00:48:39.300 Yeah.

00:48:39.460 That's what I believe in.

00:48:40.320 I believe in finding one woman who you can honor and serve and cherish.

00:48:45.500 I didn't, I didn't always do those things.

00:48:47.340 I did in a lot of ways.

00:48:48.480 Like I'm not the devil either.

00:48:49.940 Okay.

00:48:50.180 So I did a lot of those things very well.

00:48:53.000 And a lot of things I did very poorly.

00:48:55.540 Uh, yeah, I believe in marriage still.

00:48:57.520 I believe in union with one woman.

00:49:00.080 I'll say it that way.

00:49:00.980 Um, I don't know if I'll ever get married again.

00:49:03.380 I don't know if I'll ever have the, the government acknowledge, uh, um, acknowledge a union between

00:49:10.880 me and another woman.

00:49:11.700 I, I, I don't know.

00:49:12.980 I'm sure that there'll be another woman in my life who I'm willing and capable and would

00:49:18.060 love nothing more than to find this woman and, and, and, and be committed to that one

00:49:22.660 person.

00:49:23.040 I believe in that, uh, because I think it's powerful.

00:49:27.540 I think we add something to our lives.

00:49:30.000 I think it gives us a sense of meaning and purpose.

00:49:32.300 I think it helps lift and elevate, you know, how you perform and how you show up the responsibility

00:49:38.560 of it, the discipline and commitment and dedication, the development of new skills that's required

00:49:43.200 to make a marriage work.

00:49:44.800 Yeah.

00:49:45.340 I, I, I definitely believe that's better than being, you know, hookup culture or a bunch

00:49:52.840 of women or not.

00:49:53.600 I, I definitely believe it's better, but I can't answer it as to whether or not I would

00:49:57.960 ever have the government acknowledge that union again.

00:50:00.720 Yeah.

00:50:02.380 It calls you pretty fresh for me where I'm at right now is like, I'm not really thinking

00:50:06.800 about that right now.

00:50:08.240 So yeah.

00:50:09.280 Yeah.

00:50:09.980 Yeah.

00:50:10.520 I mean, it's safe to say, would you be the man you are today or even close to it?

00:50:17.180 Um, if you didn't get married?

00:50:19.900 No, of course.

00:50:20.700 The answer is no.

00:50:21.660 Yeah, of course not.

00:50:23.140 Yeah.

00:50:23.960 It's the, it's the ultimate, uh, call you up into manhood kind of thing.

00:50:29.780 No doubt.

00:50:30.720 And also when it doesn't work, you know, it's another call.

00:50:33.800 It's another call up.

00:50:34.960 You could use it as a call down, like, Hey, I'm going to self-destruct.

00:50:37.620 I'm going to let my world implode.

00:50:39.940 Or you could say, shit, what do I do?

00:50:42.740 And like retreat for a minute, regroup, and then get back into the fight.

00:50:47.600 Yeah.

00:50:49.400 Interesting question.

00:50:50.300 So I'll toll.

00:50:51.460 Oh, four.

00:50:52.500 As a young man.

00:50:53.900 When I'm going through issues, tribulations, whatever you call them.

00:50:57.240 I often feel emotions that I can't understand or pinpoint.

00:51:01.240 To the point where I don't know where I stand on a subject or how I feel about it.

00:51:06.340 It's almost as if I go into this dark hole and I can't make any reason out of it.

00:51:12.580 Someone might state an opinion that I don't agree with, but I can't figure out why I don't

00:51:17.640 agree with them.

00:51:18.380 I apologize for the poor wording.

00:51:20.600 There's a question in there somewhere.

00:51:22.020 I believe have a great day, gentlemen.

00:51:24.800 It's interesting.

00:51:26.380 I've never really had this problem.

00:51:28.900 I've always been pretty decisive.

00:51:29.620 Do you think this is a funk though?

00:51:31.220 I don't know.

00:51:31.860 I don't know.

00:51:32.160 We get in funks and it's like too elusive.

00:51:35.180 It's a lot.

00:51:35.980 So I don't know.

00:51:36.880 I don't know the answer because I don't know this guy.

00:51:38.680 Yeah.

00:51:38.880 So we have to look at behavior.

00:51:40.360 We have to look at our behavior and then see what is standard for us.

00:51:43.660 It's a lot like when people are surveying situations or, you know, securities looking

00:51:50.220 for potential threats, they're going to look at the, the, the crowd mentality.

00:51:55.480 So what is, what is the crowd doing?

00:51:58.460 So here's, what's interesting to answer your question.

00:52:02.760 I, I had a conver, I heard from a guy that have a conversation with, I heard from a guy

00:52:07.060 presenting and he helped figure out who the Boston bombers were from several years ago.

00:52:11.300 And the way they ended up doing it is they put red dots on all the faces in the crowd

00:52:16.660 and then they played it.

00:52:18.140 They played the tape with all the red dots and the red dot was going to follow the faces.

00:52:22.700 Oh God.

00:52:23.440 When they're investigating videotape.

00:52:25.500 So they were reviewing videotape and they put a red dot that fixed to a person's face,

00:52:29.540 all the faces, and they reviewed the videotape and all of the faces did one thing.

00:52:35.600 They looked one way, they moved one way, except for the bomber that knew that the bomb was going

00:52:43.940 off.

00:52:44.240 So they didn't look.

00:52:45.540 So that red dot went the other direction and that's how they pinpointed who to focus

00:52:51.240 their attention on.

00:52:52.140 Now there's probably a lot more nuance in that.

00:52:53.960 But the reason I bring that up is because we need to know what's your, what's your typical

00:52:59.220 behavior.

00:52:59.940 Like, I don't, I, is this, is this always how you've been, if it's always how you've

00:53:05.420 been, then we need to work on figuring out, okay, what is, what, what are your emotions

00:53:10.080 you're experiencing by fleshing those out?

00:53:12.220 Like write them down.

00:53:13.700 There's emotional wheels where you can actually see the different emotions and how they branch

00:53:18.600 off of each other.

00:53:19.360 You can start going through the scripts and the stories and the narratives and the experiences

00:53:22.980 that you've had as a young man and figure out if something's coming from there, because

00:53:26.400 maybe confrontation isn't something that your family really dealt with well.

00:53:31.520 So when somebody has an opinion, you don't agree with, you don't know why you don't agree

00:53:35.200 with it.

00:53:35.680 And you don't know like how to voice it or articulate it because maybe you never learn

00:53:39.800 that skillset as a child because your family never did that.

00:53:43.040 Or maybe you're overly confrontational and you learn that from somebody.

00:53:48.180 So we learn all of these things from our influences in life, but I don't know if you're just in

00:53:53.580 a funk, that's a different answer.

00:53:56.580 If you're just in a funk, we have to figure out why, what is, what is happening?

00:54:01.480 What, what has changed?

00:54:03.320 You know, I could say I'm in a funk, but it's not my typical behavior.

00:54:06.920 There's an external circumstance that's creating that for me.

00:54:09.580 So how do I make the most of the circumstance I'm in right now?

00:54:12.660 By journaling, by processing, by grieving, by having sadness, by figuring out things I can

00:54:17.720 do better next time, by getting back in the game, all of these things.

00:54:20.660 So I don't know, I don't know what, what this gentleman is dealing with.

00:54:26.100 I would say that if you, I would say one thing you could do is you could practice explaining

00:54:33.060 yourself.

00:54:34.160 That might be a good thing.

00:54:36.480 Processing thoughts of, you know, what are some internal dialogue to help kind of flush

00:54:41.180 out what was the trigger that, that got into that state.

00:54:44.080 Yeah.

00:54:45.240 So, and I'm not saying that you need to do it to, for the validation of others, but

00:54:48.820 you know, maybe you're having a discussion with somebody in your life, you know, somebody

00:54:52.920 where it's non-threatening, maybe it's your mom or, or a sibling or a really close friend,

00:54:57.840 or maybe even your spouse and you don't agree with the way something went.

00:55:01.320 And so you're not going to get upset, make a vow not to get upset, but Hey, I don't agree

00:55:05.120 with this.

00:55:05.640 And here's why.

00:55:07.220 Yeah.

00:55:08.100 And then that's it, you know, and, and look, just because you say you don't agree with

00:55:11.620 it and here's why it means that somebody needs to agree with you.

00:55:13.720 It's just you learning to process those emotions better.

00:55:16.340 And then learning to share your feelings with people.

00:55:18.920 I think there's a place where you can overshare, but I don't know that that's you.

00:55:22.440 Like there are people who overshare where I'm like, Hey, maybe you shouldn't share so

00:55:25.320 much.

00:55:26.360 And there's people who undershare that maybe need to share more.

00:55:30.040 What were you going to say, Kip?

00:55:32.040 Well, I just, this has always been true for me.

00:55:35.100 So until I've, I don't know, until this is not true, I, I think it's, it's, I don't

00:55:41.800 know, I was going to say it's my truth, but I, in most cases, I find that most upsets are

00:55:50.380 one of three things I'm out of integrity, AKA I'm not doing something that I know I should

00:55:56.580 be doing and it's disrupting me and I'm making excuses for it to something is left

00:56:04.440 unsaid.

00:56:06.760 Like I, like this is nagging resolve or communication that I've been blowing off, which is really

00:56:14.300 a form of integrity in my opinion.

00:56:15.740 But, but regardless, this unsettled thing that I need to communicate.

00:56:19.820 And, and that's a whole other conversation we could talk about is like, what are you

00:56:23.620 communicating?

00:56:24.140 You're not lashing out, by the way, this is, it's just getting clear on something or you

00:56:28.980 have expectations that aren't being met and you're not willing to let go of the expectation

00:56:33.800 and the meaning behind it.

00:56:35.780 Right.

00:56:36.040 I have expectations that my wife is this way and, and, and, and I haven't completed the

00:56:42.480 thought, well, I shouldn't have to do this period.

00:56:45.500 And so then it bothers me, right?

00:56:47.480 Because it's outside my realm of control and I never completed the thought, well, but she's

00:56:53.260 not that way.

00:56:53.900 So what are you going to do about it and, and let it go?

00:56:57.480 And so expectations not being let go of something that's already, that is so out of integrity,

00:57:04.120 or I'm not expressing something that needs to be expressed.

00:57:08.720 And I'm kind of more likely acting it out or stonewalling or something else because I

00:57:14.760 haven't communicated it.

00:57:16.500 Right.

00:57:16.780 For me, it's always one of those three things.

00:57:19.340 It's a good framework.

00:57:20.640 I, I would, I would wholeheartedly agree with that.

00:57:23.140 Kip, can you read the question one more time?

00:57:25.200 There's one thing he said I wanted to address, but I can't really remember what it was right

00:57:29.000 off hand.

00:57:30.040 Yeah.

00:57:30.500 Sorry.

00:57:30.800 Uh, uh, as a young man, when I'm going through issues, tribulations, whatever you would like

00:57:37.320 to call them, I often feel emotions that I can't understand or pinpoint to the point

00:57:42.960 where I don't know where I stand on the subject or how I feel about it.

00:57:45.940 It's almost as if I go into this dark hole and I can't make any reason out of it.

00:57:50.900 Someone might state an opinion that I don't agree with, but I can't figure out why I don't

00:57:55.720 agree with them.

00:57:57.560 Okay.

00:57:58.000 So there's a thing and I, and it's a little bit off subject here, but that he, he doesn't

00:58:03.840 know, he doesn't understand, like one thing I've had to get better at is just being okay

00:58:10.780 with sometimes you're just never going to know.

00:58:14.120 Yeah.

00:58:14.580 And that's, I'm just in a bad mood and I don't know.

00:58:16.940 Yeah.

00:58:17.360 And that's hard.

00:58:17.960 Or, or somebody maybe does something to you or, you know, there's a situation in the past

00:58:23.660 that you can't let go of.

00:58:25.200 This happens a lot of the times when guys are grieving.

00:58:27.860 Uh, I think over the loss of their father, that was a big deal for me because I had a

00:58:33.960 lot of pent up resentment that I wasn't aware of.

00:58:37.240 And it was really frustrating.

00:58:39.300 And in my mind, even subconsciously, I was like, well, why, why, why it should have this,

00:58:43.860 it should have that.

00:58:44.420 Why is, why that I didn't, I'm never going to know now, never.

00:58:49.760 And I have to learn to let that go.

00:58:51.980 And I think this goes into what we were talking about with expectations.

00:58:55.300 We have to let go guys.

00:58:58.020 Like some of us are holding on way too tight.

00:59:00.880 We're holding onto people.

00:59:02.540 We're holding onto expectations of people.

00:59:04.660 We're holding onto our own standards.

00:59:06.180 Like we're holding onto things way, like everything.

00:59:08.960 Think about this.

00:59:09.680 If you're a guy who, let's say you go on vacation and every minute of every single day needs to

00:59:14.760 be planned on vacation.

00:59:15.840 That might be an indicator that you're just grasping too tight and you're not giving yourself

00:59:21.900 any opportunity for joy.

00:59:24.360 Like we were talking about earlier.

00:59:26.020 If I'm grasping onto the way my dead father treated me and things I think he should have

00:59:32.420 done differently, I will never for the rest of my life have any reprieve ever.

00:59:39.280 If there's things that my ex-wife cannot communicate with me for whatever reason, and I can't move

00:59:44.920 on until I know I may never be able to move on.

00:59:49.640 And that's not the kind of life I'm interested in.

00:59:51.740 I'm interested in a life where I learn and grow and develop and evolve and get better

00:59:56.560 and move past hardship and move towards things that bring me pleasure and joy and fulfillment.

01:00:01.580 And sometimes we just have to let go of what is or what we don't understand so that we can

01:00:08.920 move on.

01:00:10.120 And I ask myself that all the time.

01:00:12.680 Those of you who are going through separations and divorces probably feel the same way.

01:00:15.820 It's like, why?

01:00:17.280 Like we replay all of this stuff in our minds.

01:00:20.100 Why?

01:00:20.520 Why?

01:00:20.880 Why?

01:00:21.140 I don't understand.

01:00:22.440 I don't.

01:00:23.000 I honestly, I there's things about it where I'm like, I don't get it.

01:00:26.800 It doesn't need to be got.

01:00:28.860 It just is.

01:00:30.040 And so we let go and we move on with confidence.

01:00:34.320 Totally.

01:00:35.080 Maybe a trigger for those listening around, like, because sometimes I feel like we don't.

01:00:42.760 Let me just give another example of identifying expectations.

01:00:45.720 This is also those areas of our lives where we have a judgment of what should be this way

01:00:51.920 or it shouldn't.

01:00:52.780 So if you're like, oh, I shouldn't have to do this or it should be this way, those are

01:00:58.740 the expectations that will F you up because you won't move past, right?

01:01:04.300 We get stuck with, I shouldn't have to deal with this.

01:01:08.420 I shouldn't, I shouldn't have to resolve this.

01:01:11.820 Like, this is not like that, that should have been addressed properly somewhere else.

01:01:16.960 And then we're stuck with it versus going, well, you know what?

01:01:20.300 I shouldn't have to do this, but I am.

01:01:24.200 So what am I going to do about it?

01:01:26.060 And finish the thought beyond just what should or should not be.

01:01:31.780 Well, and that also applies to other people.

01:01:34.160 How often do we do that?

01:01:35.680 Kip, you should, like, let's say you didn't call me.

01:01:39.140 Let's just hypothetically say you didn't call or text me today.

01:01:42.840 And you showed up 15 minutes late.

01:01:44.940 In my mind, I'm like, well, you should have shown up on time.

01:01:48.180 You should have.

01:01:49.000 Yeah.

01:01:49.200 Like, you should have called me.

01:01:50.260 You should have shown up on time.

01:01:51.080 What the hell's the problem?

01:01:52.660 And then I realized your neighbor's house burned down.

01:01:55.260 How big of an ass would I feel?

01:01:57.660 Because I didn't allow it to take.

01:02:00.160 Now, I might call and say, hey, Kip, everything okay?

01:02:02.400 What's going on?

01:02:02.880 It's not like you.

01:02:04.260 But I allow that grace and that empathy to keep from being, it should be this way.

01:02:09.400 And, you know, this is for our men and for the ladies listening too, is when you're thinking

01:02:16.460 about that with somebody else, he shouldn't do that.

01:02:19.720 She shouldn't be this way.

01:02:21.000 She shouldn't say that.

01:02:22.100 He should act this way.

01:02:23.660 Why should he?

01:02:25.040 Really?

01:02:25.500 Why?

01:02:26.140 Why should he behave that way?

01:02:28.320 Now, is it good?

01:02:29.480 Is it moral?

01:02:30.300 Is it right?

01:02:31.080 We can make that case.

01:02:32.200 Well, what if he never learned to behave like that?

01:02:34.900 And again, I don't care if you're talking about the husband or the wife.

01:02:37.800 I mean, switch them back and forth.

01:02:39.520 Unless you communicate to somebody, like let's say your wife's doing something you don't like

01:02:43.800 her doing.

01:02:44.880 Maybe she's talking with other dudes because she's friendly.

01:02:48.040 She's not interested, but she's friendly and she's putting out the wrong signals.

01:02:52.020 Let's say that.

01:02:52.900 I think that could be pretty common.

01:02:55.380 Well, she shouldn't talk to other men.

01:02:56.840 She shouldn't do that.

01:02:57.600 She, okay, like maybe, but let's talk to her about it.

01:03:03.540 You know, maybe she's putting herself into vulnerable and compromising situations and

01:03:07.020 she's not even aware of it because it's not even on her radar.

01:03:09.480 She's not trying to step out on you.

01:03:11.060 She's just being a personable person.

01:03:13.200 And so communicate, hey, hon, I wanted to talk with you because the way you're communicating

01:03:19.040 with other men, I'm telling you as a man, it's being perceived differently than I think

01:03:23.620 you intended.

01:03:24.120 And like, I'm here to serve and help.

01:03:27.300 And I think this will help.

01:03:29.420 See the difference?

01:03:31.520 Totally.

01:03:32.300 Totally.

01:03:33.240 Yeah.

01:03:33.940 It's, it's crazy how, it's crazy how we lock, walk around also even feeling that people

01:03:42.300 owe us things and no one owes you anything, nothing, not even your spouse.

01:03:49.900 Now she can choose to, but there's no book that says your wife owes you anything.

01:03:58.960 It's still out of choice.

01:04:00.980 And it's weird how in our heads, right?

01:04:03.420 We have these ideas, these patterns of like, well, you know, this is how, you know, marriages

01:04:08.180 should be.

01:04:08.820 And this is how work should be.

01:04:10.120 And then when things aren't aligned with those preconceived notions and ideas, then

01:04:14.840 all of a sudden, like something's wrong versus like, well, actually maybe you should have

01:04:19.400 thought about all the nice things that they did that they didn't have to do.

01:04:22.400 And it was a choice.

01:04:23.720 It wasn't some status quo that they are like forced into following, you know what I mean?

01:04:29.720 And that was actually choices being acted upon.

01:04:33.640 That's weird.

01:04:35.060 Human brains.

01:04:35.980 Hmm.

01:04:37.560 Okay.

01:04:38.060 One more question.

01:04:39.100 Yep.

01:04:39.740 Okay.

01:04:40.920 I think this is good.

01:04:42.040 Actually.

01:04:42.320 I think this is valuable.

01:04:43.260 So just Jared eights, how impactful would you consider therapy has been?

01:04:47.820 I've been going for four months now, some ups and downs, but it's been worth it for me.

01:04:52.140 So how impactful?

01:04:53.920 I've gone to therapy in the past and I've had some success with some, I did a better help

01:04:58.940 online that that was okay, but I never really felt like connected to any of the therapists

01:05:04.840 that I had.

01:05:05.580 And then I got introduced to somebody here in Southern Utah.

01:05:09.300 And like I said, I mean, this is a man who's very much like me as far as my personality of

01:05:15.120 like driving driven principle, like get after it, no joy, like just get it done.

01:05:21.140 He's very much that way, but he understands that about himself.

01:05:23.980 So he's helped me to navigate that a little more effectively.

01:05:27.180 I also like that.

01:05:28.580 He's willing to tell me things that make me uncomfortable that I don't like to hear that.

01:05:32.440 I don't want to hear like that example I gave you earlier about losing my wife and my family.

01:05:36.760 Yeah.

01:05:37.160 Like I need that.

01:05:38.500 And not many people are willing to do that for me.

01:05:41.060 And I, and it's hard to, the more success that you have in life, the less people you'll

01:05:45.800 have that will be able to do that for you.

01:05:47.660 Yeah.

01:05:48.060 So you need to be able to find people in your life and then keep them close, whether it's

01:05:54.060 paying for therapy or being a good friend.

01:05:56.640 If you have a friend like that, you really need to value and cherish those relationships

01:06:00.520 because they're few and far between.

01:06:02.540 So for me, I don't know.

01:06:04.640 I've been going, I've gone three times.

01:06:07.740 You know, I can't tell you that it's, you know, groundbreaking.

01:06:10.760 Like my world has completely changed and I'm just a better human over the last two weeks.

01:06:16.180 It's like, I don't, that's not the case, but I feel like I'm learning things I didn't

01:06:23.280 know before.

01:06:24.620 I've heard things put in a way like that.

01:06:27.160 When I explained earlier about finding more, like your job is to find happiness to happy

01:06:31.420 people.

01:06:31.820 Their job is to find more fulfillment and pursued and this sort of thing.

01:06:36.040 Yeah.

01:06:36.820 That's one of the things he said.

01:06:38.280 It is.

01:06:38.920 He said, he said, Ryan, I don't think it's everybody's job in life to be happy.

01:06:42.660 I'm like, what?

01:06:43.680 Like, or no, no, no, no.

01:06:45.500 I'm sorry.

01:06:45.920 No, no.

01:06:46.460 This is what he said.

01:06:47.360 I don't think it's everybody's job in life to be successful or to be better.

01:06:51.020 That's what he said.

01:06:52.120 He said, I don't think it's everybody's job in life to be better.

01:06:55.800 He's like, it's not everybody's job to be a better human.

01:06:58.440 I'm like, what?

01:06:59.800 That's nonsense.

01:07:00.520 What are you talking about?

01:07:01.180 All of us are here to be better.

01:07:02.340 He's like, nope, you're not.

01:07:04.560 You're here to be happier because you're better.

01:07:07.560 That's your lesson.

01:07:08.800 You need to learn.

01:07:09.580 And all the other people, they need to be better, but you need to be happier.

01:07:14.580 Man, that's really interesting.

01:07:16.400 And he said something that you alluded to as well.

01:07:18.700 He said, the reason it's important for you to learn to be happier is because you're going

01:07:22.660 to be more influential when you are.

01:07:24.880 More people will want to be around you.

01:07:27.220 You said that.

01:07:28.540 We took the jet skis out because you want them to be part of it.

01:07:32.080 You want it to be fun.

01:07:33.320 And Asia told you that too.

01:07:35.640 It's like, hey, if you're miserable, you're successful, but you're miserable, you're not

01:07:40.200 going to be successful with anybody.

01:07:42.880 So be happier.

01:07:44.240 But yeah, therapy has been really good for me.

01:07:48.040 Yeah.

01:07:48.500 I mean, I don't think you can go wrong, right?

01:07:50.340 Like, well, actually you could go wrong.

01:07:52.040 I take that back.

01:07:52.760 I mean, I think some therapists like dredge out and it's like, oh, woe is you.

01:07:56.760 And it's just like this, you know, sign up for a therapy session and let's like dredge

01:08:02.060 through your problems and be a victim.

01:08:03.720 So I would just be mindful that you get a therapist that's calling you up and not just

01:08:10.500 calling you up, but now what are we going to do about it?

01:08:13.540 That's why I love like cognitive therapy.

01:08:15.820 Like the theory behind it is it's applicable above and beyond just hashing your thoughts

01:08:24.440 and then walking away with like, now what?

01:08:27.200 Like, what do I take action?

01:08:28.680 What am I doing?

01:08:29.900 So just make sure that you're taking some action to actually implement versus just a

01:08:35.260 weekly drudge of how miserable you might think that you are, you know?

01:08:40.200 I don't know.

01:08:41.060 Yeah.

01:08:41.660 Agreed.

01:08:42.400 All right.

01:08:43.320 So there's a couple of call to actions.

01:08:45.260 Of course, you can follow Mr. Mickler on the socials at Ryan Mickler.

01:08:49.440 We're going to open up the Iron Council next month to learn more about the Iron Council.

01:08:54.180 Go to orderofman.com slash Iron Council and be ready to join us when we open that up.

01:09:00.660 Battle planners, do we still have some in stock or those?

01:09:03.200 Battle planners are in stock.

01:09:04.540 Nope.

01:09:04.800 They're in stock.

01:09:05.440 We have, I got a bunch.

01:09:06.440 So orderofman.com slash TWBP as in 12 week battle planner.

01:09:11.760 Excellent.

01:09:12.520 Cool.

01:09:13.040 Thanks, Kip.

01:09:13.480 Appreciate you.

01:09:14.180 You got to stick to your schedule.

01:09:15.240 So we'll let you get going.

01:09:16.040 Guys, appreciate you.

01:09:17.060 Great questions today.

01:09:17.880 Thoughtful questions.

01:09:18.620 I like those.

01:09:19.480 Different kind of questions, personal experiences, things we haven't heard before.

01:09:24.280 It's always, it's always nice.

01:09:25.680 It's refreshing when we get those because they make me think too.

01:09:27.900 So appreciate you guys.

01:09:29.280 We will be back next on Friday.

01:09:31.100 Sorry.

01:09:31.380 We'll be back Friday until then.

01:09:32.600 Go out there.

01:09:32.980 Take action.

01:09:33.820 Become the man we are meant to be.

01:09:35.540 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

01:09:38.420 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:09:42.040 We invite you to join the Order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - May 10, 2023

Learning to Let Go, When to Offer Advice and When NOT to, and the Power of Therapy ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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