Order of Man - LES STROUD ｜ Become a Survivorman

00:00:00.000 Gentlemen, my guest today needs no introduction. Now, most of you might know him as survivor man.

00:00:05.180 His name is less Stroud and he is a legend in the nature wildlife and survival communities for

00:00:10.820 good reason. You're going to hear all about that. Now I thought we'd be talking all about survival

00:00:14.940 strategies and techniques today, but we immediately took the conversation deeper

00:00:19.200 and covered everything from our disagreements on the boy scouts, new ruling, allowing girls,

00:00:25.500 why women sometimes tend to be better survivalists and what gets in men's way, our responsibility to

00:00:31.800 contribute to society in the three ways that we can, what the quote unquote joy of completion means

00:00:37.560 and how to harness it in our lives and ultimately how to become our own survivor man in every facet

00:00:43.960 of life. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:49.460 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time you are not

00:00:55.300 easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are.

00:01:02.440 This is who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done,

00:01:07.160 you can call yourself a man. Men, it's good to be back with you again today. My name is Ryan

00:01:12.140 Mickler. If you're new to the podcast, this is a show designed to give you the tools, techniques,

00:01:18.220 strategies, conversations, and resources. You need to step up more fully as a man, whether you're a

00:01:23.960 a husband, a business owner, a community leader, whatever facet of life you're showing up. I want

00:01:28.780 to give you what you need. It's my job to empower you in this really strange and crazy and frankly,

00:01:34.420 insane society that continues to undermine and dismiss masculinity, manliness, and what it means

00:01:39.440 to be a man. We are celebrating it. We are honoring it. And most importantly, we are fostering it.

00:01:44.700 So I've got a great conversation lined up with less Stroud today. Before I get into that,

00:01:49.780 I just want to make a very quick mention that we've got our free battle ready program available

00:01:55.080 to you. It's been available for a while and we've had tens of thousands of men go through it at this

00:01:58.720 point and have tremendous success in improving their own lives. You're going to learn how to

00:02:03.920 create a vision, identify four key objectives in your life, start to narrow it down to the tactics

00:02:10.580 you can employ on a daily basis to move you towards your goals. And then my after action review

00:02:16.460 process, uh, that's going to help you stay on target. So if you go to order of man.com slash

00:02:22.060 battle ready, order of man.com slash battle ready, sign up with your name and email. You're going to

00:02:27.040 get an email directly from me. You're going to get a series of other emails and tasks that you need to

00:02:31.360 do to get you on the path of life and excelling as a man again, order of man.com slash battle ready.

00:02:38.840 All right, guys, with that said, let me introduce you. If you need it to a gentleman by the name of

00:02:43.360 Les Stroud, uh, he's very, very popular for his award-winning TV show survivor man.

00:02:49.420 Uh, but he's dedicated his life to understanding nature and wildlife and the outdoors and frankly,

00:02:55.520 our relationship with them. And he's been featured on just about every imaginable channel from

00:03:02.000 discovery to Nat Geo and appearances on Ellen and Jimmy Fallon and Larry King live. He's been

00:03:07.700 everywhere. He's incredibly capable in the great outdoors. Uh, he's a deep thinker as you're going

00:03:13.480 to hear in our conversation and also an avid teacher of all things nature and how to survive

00:03:19.140 anything life may have to throw it your way. So I enjoyed this conversation. I know you guys will as

00:03:24.820 well. Les, what's going on, man. Great to see you today. Hey, thank you very much. Yeah. I've been

00:03:31.560 looking forward to it. I've been following you for a while and admittedly I'm not in the survival

00:03:36.880 outdoor space, although I see a huge need for it. And I'm constantly trying to improve my abilities

00:03:43.260 as a man and being able to survive and being creative and all of these things that you do is

00:03:48.220 a crucial component of this. Well, thank you. Uh, I think it's, um, I don't know how much

00:03:55.700 manliness I like to ascribe to it. Uh, I think it definitely gets kind of lumped in if you will,

00:04:03.240 with that sort of ambiance of thought, I suppose. Uh, but yeah, you know, it's still a, it's a good

00:04:09.940 rugged outdoorsy thing to be involved in. That's for sure. What, what makes you say that you don't

00:04:14.460 know how much manliness is associated with it? Cause when I, here's my perspective as I hear it.

00:04:18.920 And I think our job as men is to protect and provide, and we run into natural disasters and

00:04:24.700 violent encounters and situations like this and being capable of doing that to me is a very manly

00:04:30.620 or masculine attribute. Wow. Well, you know, what you really have to do then is define manly and

00:04:35.720 define masculine. Um, but I think as far as the attribute itself is, is not, uh, limited simply

00:04:43.380 to those of us with, with lots of testosterone. In fact, in fact, as a survival instructor, I can tell

00:04:49.600 you that, that, you know, taking people out in the wilderness, um, the majority of the

00:04:54.520 time, any women that I would take out often did much better than the men.

00:04:59.140 What do you, what do you ascribe that to? Because I've talked with, um, professional shooters,

00:05:03.420 for example, those who train firearms, firearms instructors, and they will actually say similar

00:05:08.420 things. So what do you attribute that comment to that women often do better in some of these

00:05:14.080 situations? Well, it's tricky. I think if I look, if I look, think back on my examples that I might

00:05:19.580 have, I think maybe there's a bit of an expectation on us as the guys in the scenario to be, you know,

00:05:27.040 wildernessy and we're all little Jeremiah Johnson's kind of thing. Um, and whereas, uh, the women show

00:05:33.800 up on a course like this, they don't, that, that, that burden is not laid on them. If anything,

00:05:37.780 they're, they're, you know, they're outliers and what are you doing here kind of thing.

00:05:40.920 And so they come with a, I think maybe a sense of calmness. And of course, when it comes to

00:05:45.580 wilderness survival and perhaps sharpshooting as well, uh, a sense of calmness is really vital.

00:05:52.120 Uh, I've heard some say, oh, maybe it's their ability to, you know, women can, you know,

00:05:57.040 because of childbirth and so on, they understand suffering a little better than others. I don't

00:06:00.660 know that I'd agree with that particular version of it. I think it's more that they just seem to be

00:06:05.420 a little calmer about it all. And men have an ego that may at times be difficult for them to

00:06:12.660 separate their own ego from the miserable, cold, rainy night in a shelter with bugs biting

00:06:20.100 and realizing that if you're calm and cool and collected, you can, you can survive this

00:06:25.480 with a capital S survive. Uh, but if you're going to be all caught up in your own self about it,

00:06:32.600 then yeah, you're going to be freaking out about everything. And women don't seem to do that.

00:06:36.660 Yeah, I would agree. I would agree with that. I think that's, uh, generally true. How would

00:06:41.380 in a survival situation? Well, let me back up. Here's where I see ego getting involved with men.

00:06:47.540 If there's other men involved, right? So you've got another man involved and somebody's vying for

00:06:52.260 leadership or, or some sort of perceived authority and they're trying to, you know, beat their chest

00:06:57.800 and do this thing at the expense of themselves and the group. But even in a, in a survival situation,

00:07:03.280 when men are alone, how would the ego get in the way of their own ability to survive

00:07:07.740 the situation they're dealing with? Well, yeah. And I'm just sort of thinking about what

00:07:11.900 you're saying. Cause really what you're going to, there's two points there and I'm going to kind

00:07:15.000 of relate there to one, which is, um, what you really just described was sort of the same thing

00:07:20.180 as when women say, Oh, I, I, I don't dress up for the guys at the bar. I dress up for the other

00:07:24.660 girls. Right. Same sort of thing. Right. Exactly. You were just saying, and I, I would counter that and

00:07:31.360 say from my own experience, I don't know that my ego comes into play too much because of other men.

00:07:39.760 If anything, I'm probably worse off if there's women around, because then my, that part of my

00:07:44.340 machismo might cause me to over-rise to the occasion, if you will, uh, sort of thing. Um,

00:07:52.780 yeah. So I, I forgot where I was going to go with the, with the final sort of answer to your

00:07:56.740 question there, but, um, I just wanted to make that distinction that, that there is that comparison

00:08:01.220 to women doing what they do for women, men doing what they do for men. I don't think I do. I think,

00:08:06.580 you know, when I'm, I actually find myself saying any kind of, uh, situation with a lot of men,

00:08:14.380 which by the way, I'll tangent for a second. And I say, which can be a lot easier in some situations

00:08:20.140 for me personally, you know, to be around other men. Is that what you're saying? Or to be in a

00:08:26.460 challenging situation solely with men. Now we could dig deep into this, right? So why does

00:08:33.480 less feel like that? You know, is it because I feel a cliched stereotypical sense of my protectionism

00:08:41.900 for the women that might be in that scenario? So I would say sometimes it's, I also have a sense

00:08:49.700 of frustration because, well, if this was just a bunch of guys, we'd be fine. But because we have,

00:08:56.140 you know, a woman along, we have to find the extra bathroom and we have to do it. Right. So

00:09:01.140 there's also that too. I'm being really candid here. You know, I mean, I've been in many, many

00:09:04.960 survival and search and rescue and wilderness situations, uh, challenging adventure situations

00:09:10.640 with both men and women. And on some occasions, having the co-ed version is phenomenal,

00:09:17.160 really phenomenal to have those mixed personalities for really achieving. And other times it's detrimental.

00:09:23.020 It's detrimental. You know, I can think of a time, one time I was in the Papua New Guinea

00:09:27.400 in the jungle, and there was only one woman on the crew and she was phenomenal, usually in all

00:09:33.240 these situations. But, um, but her desire to make certain that we were all comfortable and that we

00:09:41.980 take breaks and, and, and that sort of thing, given the situation was very frustrating because what I

00:09:48.640 really wanted to do and really what everybody else really wanted to do too, was be a guy and bear

00:09:54.480 down and suck it up for six hours. No, no lunch break. No, no drink break. We got it. Like, because

00:10:00.780 this is the worst part is getting over this damn hill, this muddy steep mountain that we got to climb

00:10:05.420 is the worst part. No, we're not going to break for lunch halfway. Right. So, so that was a, there's a,

00:10:11.320 there's a true life example of a time when I found having a woman in an adventurous situation was

00:10:17.760 detrimental, but I will say before any women listening to this, get mad at me that the majority

00:10:22.080 of the time, absolutely. I would prefer to have women, uh, men and women in a co-ed situation.

00:10:28.720 Yeah. I mean, this obviously requires a bit of discernment and it seems to me that discernment

00:10:33.300 and critical thinking are increasingly lacking in society today that you make a statement and

00:10:38.200 everybody just applies it broadly and says, well, less, you know, he's a sexist or he, you know,

00:10:42.600 because he, uh, he said, you know, in this one situation, it would have been better, but based on

00:10:48.060 the situation, it's going to call for different things. And your ability to lead is ultimately

00:10:52.300 what's going to, I think, move the needle the most and get people out of this encounter.

00:10:57.620 Perspective. Right. You know, yeah, you're right. And this is, we could probably go on forever on this,

00:11:02.160 but I mean, this is a strange era and it's an era where, you know, an innocent,

00:11:06.920 uh, slip of the tongue. Now one might argue, is it ever innocent? So let's just for the sake of

00:11:15.780 the argument, say an innocent slip of the tongue and you're damned, you're damned for life sort of

00:11:19.940 thing. And then there are situations where you're damned if you do damned, if you don't, right.

00:11:23.820 Which I find myself in most of the time. Right. Or if it's a misinterpreted incorrectly,

00:11:28.820 you meant it one way and somebody takes it out of context and it gets spun and then people go

00:11:33.220 on complete tangents. Yeah. And thank you social media for that. You know, now, now it's, it's,

00:11:38.040 it's a whole world full of misunderstandings and misquotes. Yeah. Well, you know, I am glad we're

00:11:43.620 talking about this because one thing I saw in preparation for this, and I know a bit about you

00:11:48.020 is that you're a big proponent of Boy Scouts. And over the past several years, I've actually been

00:11:53.000 openly critical about some of the decisions they've made. Uh, and one of the things that you talk about

00:11:57.780 is, uh, the value of women being included. And I actually think that is not a good thing in the

00:12:05.440 aspect of Boy Scouts. Co-ed, sure. Opportunities where, where young boys and young girls work

00:12:11.520 together. But I also think there's a huge need for boys to learn exclusively from men and be surrounded

00:12:17.380 by exclusively boys. I'd love to hear your take on it. I agree with you to a limit and here I've been

00:12:23.460 thinking about this, you can tell I, and, and, and I, because I, I, I work with Scouts and I'm very

00:12:29.660 honored to work with Scouts, uh, in many, many occasions. And so I'll state right out that first

00:12:35.400 of all, I fully support the integration. I think the co-ed situation, uh, just as I've taught co-ed.

00:12:42.520 So when, when I go out and do my wilderness survival, it's always been co-ed, you know, sometimes it's,

00:12:47.020 maybe there is just all men, sometimes it's mostly women, but lots of times it's co-ed and the value in

00:12:51.800 that is, is far exceeds locking it down to men and women. Uh, so what are we talking about here?

00:13:00.240 Uh, if we're talking about the mentorship of young boys, where I think the lacking is, is not in this

00:13:08.420 big group situation, but the father, son, the uncle, son, the mentor boy, the older man, younger boy.

00:13:17.900 This, this is coming from a guy who had zero mentorship growing up. And so when I look at

00:13:24.720 the, that the, you know, uh, not, not a controversial dilemma, but certainly a topic of

00:13:31.720 conversation here, the changing of the Scouts, uh, I think, you know, what are we losing there?

00:13:38.300 Because part of me in the beginning, absolutely. I'm like, wait a minute, but, but I, I want to be

00:13:42.600 with the boys at some point and make fart jokes all night long and, and, and, and, you know, be,

00:13:48.240 be goofy and, and, and, and go skinny dipping, you know, at 14 years of age, not worried that

00:13:54.880 there's girls there sort of thing, like those kinds of things, because we have to be appropriate.

00:13:59.460 Right. So, so are we saying, well, were you inappropriate when it was a bunch of boys?

00:14:04.920 We weren't inappropriate given that it was only boys, right? It's different. For example,

00:14:11.920 going skinny dipping. Let's just say that. Let's say as a 14 year old boy, I want to go skinny

00:14:15.380 dipping. Well, I'm not going to do that at high school, right? That would be incredibly inappropriate,

00:14:19.480 but would it be appropriate with my family or with my dad or my buddies at the cottage? That would be

00:14:25.420 appropriate. And as soon as there's a girl, it's, it's now inappropriate. Now, maybe it's also

00:14:31.140 inappropriate with just the boys, but you, you, you develop this understanding. I guess you have

00:14:35.260 to go in knowing you have to go in understanding that our group of guys, uh, me and my six buddies,

00:14:40.640 uh, yeah, we're going up to the cottage and we're going to hang out and we're probably going to skinny

00:14:44.260 dip, you know, and if you're a man or a boy in that situation and you find that uncomfortable,

00:14:48.800 then you can bow out and say, that doesn't make me comfortable. And I don't, I don't want to do that.

00:14:52.780 Right. So back to the boy scouts and the scouts situation. Uh, I, again, I think that the

00:15:01.100 real lacking and the real thing that we're missing out in the argument for only having boys is, but

00:15:06.860 why it's this mentorship thing now, well, boys mentor boys. Well, you were a boy once, do we

00:15:14.060 really? No, we rip on each other and it's not always fun and it can be very hurtful. And, and so

00:15:19.840 boys, but it can also be productive though. Right. I mean, I think about boys, the way that we

00:15:24.880 communicate with each other and even as grown men, you know, if you and I are friends, I'm going to be

00:15:29.160 poking on you and picking on you a little bit and making fun of you. And they're probably an element

00:15:32.900 of truth to that. But if we take it with the way it's intended, I think men push harder on each other

00:15:38.800 as a form of accountability, which is positive. I would, I would say.

00:15:42.860 Yes. The way you just said it. Yeah. The way it really plays out in life. I don't, I don't agree

00:15:48.640 with you because, uh, you know, the way we poke on each other in high school is always painful.

00:15:53.920 Uh, I, I was, you know, I was with the in crowd and I was with the picked on crowd. I've been in

00:15:59.120 both, both. And I can tell you, it really hurts. Now people might push back at you. I'm not pushing

00:16:05.660 back at you, but, but the, the, uh, what's the phrase for the sake of debate kind of thing.

00:16:10.400 Someone might say, well, Hey, that's great. If you're all a bunch of Neanderthals, but that's

00:16:14.180 old school. You know what? We don't do that anymore. Right. And I, and I would probably side more on you

00:16:18.680 with you and say, well, uh, I, uh, first of all, I agree. There is definitely a need for

00:16:25.180 stronger sensitivity. I think there's definitely a more sensitive culture that's coming up right now

00:16:28.940 than the culture I grew up in. On the other hand, you know, there's a lot of things that I teach

00:16:34.940 where at some point I, my, my line is look, I'm really sorry, but at this point, you just got to

00:16:42.340 suck it up. Okay. You got to suck it up. Like, I think I get it. This, we can all be really

00:16:47.520 sensitive in this moment, but what we really need to do is suck it up and get the damn job done now.

00:16:51.620 So as boys, so I think I see what you're saying. I think as men, we have that opportunity to be

00:16:57.500 men around each other and we can, as men, we tell fart jokes. It's ridiculous. But, uh, the boys,

00:17:03.600 uh, I I'm not, I think, I think, I guess what I'm saying is, and I'm not trying to ride the fence

00:17:09.640 here, by the way, I'm trying to think it through myself. So am I. That's why I enjoy conversations like

00:17:14.460 this? Cause I can see it from both sides. It's an important one. And I think that really,

00:17:18.500 honestly, there's room for all three. Uh, what are the biggest complaint we hear from the girls

00:17:24.420 about why they wanted to join the scouts? Because the girl scout sucks. Right. Because all they're

00:17:29.200 doing is knitting and needlepoint and baking cookies. So that's what I hear over and over again. And then

00:17:34.240 you hear a counterpoint to that, which is, well, then why don't they just up the girl scouts?

00:17:38.080 That one is actually something I get. I'm like, yeah, why didn't they,

00:17:41.220 why didn't they, you know, up the girl scouts to it? Why didn't they, why don't they hear those

00:17:47.400 complaints and get the girls out there surviving and building shelters and make everything like

00:17:53.020 identical to what the boys do, but all girls and then all boys. And then in the middle,

00:17:58.220 we have like venturers, for example, but I think in the middle, there's room in the middle for simply

00:18:02.920 co-ed scouts. I think there's room for all three, to be honest with you. One that we understand

00:18:07.140 this is about boys. And so we're going to be all boys here. This is about girls. And for the sake

00:18:13.860 of the girls, we're going to be all girls here. And this is in the middle. This is about co-ed and

00:18:19.800 it's about learning from each other as boys, as girls. But so all of this is spinning off of the

00:18:25.600 original question. And my original point, which is what do we miss? What were we afraid of losing

00:18:32.640 with the boy scouts with having them in? I don't think really much of anything. I think

00:18:37.760 just the boys camaraderie, which you're saying is beneficial. I'm suggesting if it's only the boys,

00:18:44.160 it's like, what's that, that movie where they're on the Island and it's all the boys, the famous

00:18:50.300 movie. Anyway, it, it can be, it can get pretty painful pretty quickly.

00:18:54.480 Yeah. And I think, you know, well, I think you're right. So, so you have a like Lord of

00:18:59.680 the Flies is one that comes to mind. That's the one. And let me just finish by the way,

00:19:03.960 but I just want to say that, so that my point was the thing that's missing is the adult male

00:19:08.920 to young male mentorship. That's what I don't want to see go by the wayside.

00:19:15.320 Yeah. I'm really glad you say that because I see that as being an issue too. And that's a large part

00:19:19.460 of the work that we're doing is ensuring that we, as men, whether you were a biological father or in

00:19:25.020 a father hood type role, you said uncle earlier or a big brother or some sort of a community leader

00:19:32.440 or a member of church clergy, we have an obligation to take our knowledge and information and turn

00:19:38.880 around and impart that wisdom on our, on our boys who we are going to expect to step up and lead and be

00:19:45.720 productive members of society. But if they don't learn it, they're going to be like the Lord of the

00:19:49.220 Flies. You're absolutely right. Where it's very destructive and damaging because they don't know

00:19:52.520 how to use their masculine virtues correctly. And, and we should, I have not, I'll tell you,

00:19:59.320 you know, I mean, I train and do all the rest of it because I like my masculine virtues. You know,

00:20:04.660 I'm pretty sure my wife likes my chest, you know, and, and snuggling up to it as I, as I hold her

00:20:09.400 close, you know and, and, you know, you, you, you touched on something you said, you know,

00:20:16.500 responsibility. And so, as I said earlier, I grew up with absolutely zero mentorship,

00:20:21.640 zero guidance, nothing. And so one of the downsides of that is that not necessarily that I got involved

00:20:27.080 in a lot of nefarious things, though I did. The downside is time. You lose an incredible amount

00:20:36.180 of time in your life if you have to figure it out on your own. But if someone is going,

00:20:41.760 can I talk to you about this? And someone is guiding you. You just shaved a year off of

00:20:47.180 what you want to try to accomplish. You just shaved a month off. You just shaved five years off.

00:20:51.400 You can shave off so much time with good mentorship in getting to live an effective life as an adult

00:20:56.520 with that mentorship there. But without it, like in my case, I'm a late bloomer in absolutely

00:21:02.500 everything I've ever done because I've had to figure everything. My first bit of advice I ever got,

00:21:07.700 I was 23 years old. And not being facetious, I'm not exaggerating my life. The first adult-oriented,

00:21:15.620 calm, concise, good advice I got, I was 23. That's too long. That's way too long. I should

00:21:23.300 have gotten it when I was 10 and I was 23. And that was one bit of advice. And after that,

00:21:30.160 I became a kind of a junkie on self-help books and, you know, motivational listening and all of that,

00:21:36.460 you know, just to, I had to teach myself. Do you feel like your lack of that early mentorship from

00:21:42.520 other men in a way drove you to what you're currently doing with, because I don't think

00:21:48.240 anybody would doubt that you're a manly man or a masculine man now, right? Because you're in this

00:21:53.760 arena, you're in this world, you're doing these things and you're surviving and you're teaching others

00:21:58.380 about this. Is it that lack of that, that drove you to this direction or not at all? I'm really

00:22:04.760 curious about your perspective on that. You know what? It's a far more complicated answer,

00:22:09.120 but the short answer is yes. Yes. I, you know, as you say that, because I'm thinking of pudgy,

00:22:16.220 non-athletic me in grade 10, smoking, drinking, you know, all that. And I reversed all that around

00:22:27.240 and I mean, to this day, at this point, I, well, being a little facetious right now,

00:22:34.740 I didn't peak in high school, you know, and now I can look at all those guys who did peak in high

00:22:38.760 school who might've picked on me and who were the stars of the football team and the stars of the

00:22:42.180 hockey team. And they all got beer guts out to here and, you know, many, you know, failed marriages

00:22:47.380 and problems in some cases, failed fatherhoods and, and they just don't seem very happy. And so,

00:22:53.300 yes, again, the short answer being, yeah, I, I think being pudgy me and non-athletic me,

00:22:59.940 when I hit my twenties, I'm like, no more, no more. I want to be a, I want to be a man.

00:23:07.840 So what turned that for you? Was it a moment or a series of, of events? Because I know there's a lot

00:23:12.340 of guys who are listening to this right now who are feeling like the 20 year old version of you.

00:23:16.180 They may be 40 years old, but they feel like that guy. What is it that changed for you where you said,

00:23:22.440 no more of this, here's where I'm going. And then we can talk more about that.

00:23:27.040 So what is it that changed? It's an interesting way of asking the questions question.

00:23:34.440 I guess my internal drive earlier than that coming out of high school,

00:23:43.240 I just looked around at the neighborhood I grew up in, which was very, we had gangs and we had lots

00:23:49.920 of drugs in the neighborhood. And I mean, look, the bottom line is I should be, you know, basically

00:23:56.900 a little bit of a weekend alcoholic watching the game on TV and working at shipping and receiving.

00:24:00.960 That's what I should be doing. That's what I was meant for coming out of Mimico, Ontario.

00:24:04.980 But I looked around and no offense to that scenario. Many of my good friends are in that scenario and

00:24:09.840 I still love them to death, but I looked around and whatever it was, whatever it was in me,

00:24:15.280 and you can call it ego if you like. I just thought, no, no, there's something more. There's

00:24:23.460 got to be something more than this. I know there is. I know I can be more than this. And I don't care

00:24:28.880 what all my teachers has told me. And I don't care what my guidance counselor, how they humiliated me

00:24:34.580 and told, I was one of those kids that was told by the principal and the teachers and the guidance

00:24:39.940 counselors, you know, you just get a job less. You're not going anywhere. You know? And I just

00:24:44.000 thought something inside me said, you're wrong. You're wrong. And I'll show you. I don't know what

00:24:52.400 that is. To this day, I don't know what that is, but I do know that I didn't know how to manifest it

00:24:58.320 because I didn't have the mentorship. If I had the mentorship, I could have manifested that sooner

00:25:02.740 instead of having to read self-help books for 10 years. Yeah. That's an interesting point. It's,

00:25:08.340 it's interesting. As you say that you talk about, I do know that they're wrong and I'm going to prove

00:25:12.100 it to you. I've talked with about 350, very, very successful men in all realms of life.

00:25:18.600 And there's one thread that seems to under underpin a lot of these guys. And that is a bit,

00:25:23.880 and maybe this isn't the right way to say it. So you can correct me if I'm phrasing this wrong for you,

00:25:27.200 but a bit of a chip on the shoulder, like I'm going to show you, I'll prove it to you. And let me go

00:25:32.500 out and do this and, uh, prove others wrong. Do you feel that way? Or, or am I mischaracterizing

00:25:39.120 that? I think the only slight mischaracterization is that a chip on my shoulder seems like it's,

00:25:45.120 it's out of bitterness. There's some bitterness there. Vindication. Um, no, an edge. I don't know.

00:25:52.800 It, it, no, you know, it was, uh, it, it, it was a belief, my friend. It was just a belief in myself

00:26:02.600 that I shouldn't have had given my background. I should not have a belief in myself, but somehow

00:26:08.380 I just kept thinking something in this beings got something to give. And I don't know what it is yet,

00:26:16.340 but I, I, I know I'll find a way. And it was like, and that's my whole life's been, been like,

00:26:23.120 okay. And I used to say like, there's, there's no roadblocks for me. They're always just speed

00:26:27.340 bumps or hurdles. I'll, if I have to crawl under them, I'll crawl under them, you know,

00:26:30.720 but one way or another, I'm getting around these, these, you know? So I, I think the chip on the

00:26:35.660 shoulder, again, that, that sort of intimates a little bit of, of, of, um, bitterness and I'm not,

00:26:41.820 am I bitter? Um, I'm disappointed in my parents, you know, I'm disappointed in my, my adults,

00:26:50.080 the adults in my world when I was a teenager or younger, uh, but bitter, well, maybe I'm just

00:26:56.500 old enough not to be bitter. I probably was bitter at times. I'm sure I was, but I'm not,

00:27:00.680 not in, in, at the moment of this conversation, I'm not, I'm not bitter. I'm just more remembering,

00:27:05.480 you know? Right. So I know that your, your transformation into this realm, if I understand

00:27:12.940 correctly, started with, uh, canoe excursions. Is that right? You were, you were, you were in,

00:27:18.280 in music and you were pursuing that. And then you started, uh, taking excursions in the canoe. Is

00:27:24.340 that right? Is that how this kind of transpired and transformed a little bit? Is that the start

00:27:27.880 of what we're talking about now? Yes. Yes. Uh, and so why, you know, it, it, it, it gave me

00:27:38.160 something that I could do well. I could do nothing well in high school. Sure. I tried out for the

00:27:46.760 hockey team, didn't make it, tried out for the football team, didn't make it played hockey, you

00:27:50.700 know, house league and all the rest of it. Uh, but it sucked. Actually I was pretty good when I was 21

00:27:55.380 for about a year and a half. I was really good. You know, you have those moments. It's really weird.

00:27:59.960 It's like, especially with men out of high school, they start to sprout and get stronger

00:28:02.840 in it right out of high school. I'm like, man, if I could only had that three, four years earlier,

00:28:05.940 I would have been golden. Exactly. And that's, I certainly sprouted after high school in many,

00:28:10.840 many ways. Uh, but I think, uh, so the canoeing thing, it was, yeah, it was, I think it was just,

00:28:16.940 it was like a church group. It was a church group trip. And, uh, we went to Tamargame, Ontario,

00:28:21.920 place up in Canada and it's a beautiful pristine canoeing country. And, you know, it was just this

00:28:27.440 little one, one week or two week canoe trip, but in my head, it could have been the greatest

00:28:33.960 adventure ever. Like I might as well have been in the Amazon jungle, which I eventually went to,

00:28:38.580 obviously. Um, it just, it was such a break free from what I associated with my neighborhood.

00:28:45.920 And so some of the stuff that I hear you asking and that we're talking about, and I know that we are

00:28:49.720 speaking to a lot of other men, uh, right now that, that, um, maybe want to break out of where

00:28:57.060 they're in sort of thing. And a big thing for me with the canoeing, which was new friends, right?

00:29:04.800 Because my friends in high school, that, that was not a thing, but through church and these people,

00:29:09.960 I found this thing and off we go canoeing and I'm good at it. And I, I'm like quickly, what it did was

00:29:17.700 it, it told me with this new opportunity that I did not have to go back to my toxic friends.

00:29:26.040 I did not have to, there were not just the six or seven guys I could call who some of them I love

00:29:33.020 to this day, but you know, let's face it at the time, their attitudes were more toxic. And I mean,

00:29:38.400 toxic with a small T I don't mean that as negative as dark as it sounds. It's something that's something

00:29:42.720 that we, I think overuse a lot of times. You say, Oh, you got to get away from your toxic people.

00:29:46.700 And it's the right word, I think, to get the point across, but it's not necessarily as dark.

00:29:51.260 Sometimes it's, it's not very dark at all, but it's still withholds you. You know, I remember

00:29:56.480 through the canoeing, you know, and I had quit smoking and I was becoming more healthy.

00:30:01.180 One of my best buddies from high school said, what do you mean? I can't smoke in your house. I said,

00:30:04.980 come on, Ronnie. I was like, I just don't want anybody smoking in my house anymore.

00:30:08.180 Well, I'm not coming over that. Right. And so, but you know, and, and God love them, but

00:30:14.160 okay, then don't come over. Cause you know what? Like we're past that, like sort of thing. And so,

00:30:20.220 yeah, the canoe trip, the canoe trip taught me that there was another world out there.

00:30:25.160 And when I finally discovered it, it was much bigger than I ever could have dreamed.

00:30:29.420 And so when you, when you started to see in that other world started to unfold,

00:30:33.200 you know, before you, and you started to move closer towards it,

00:30:35.920 did you have some sort of an idea that you were going to turn this into a career that you were

00:30:42.260 going to turn this into a money-making venture, that it was going to support your lifestyle or was

00:30:46.380 it, this is a hobby. I enjoy doing it. And you know, that's what it is. And period, end of discussion.

00:30:51.780 Never a hobby and never about the money. I finally found my first goal in life. So for example,

00:30:59.680 one of the things that I learned later in life was what I call the joy of completion, which is

00:31:05.040 actually finishing something you started. And I didn't know that. I was a long time, but

00:31:11.060 I found even before that, I found my first goal. My goal, I love this so much. I want to become the

00:31:22.260 best guide in Canada. I want to be like a outdoor guide that people know about. Cause I saw some guys

00:31:29.060 that were like that, right? Like, Oh, have you ever tripped with him? Oh yeah. He's a canoe guide.

00:31:32.800 You got to go learn from him. I wanted to be that guy. And so that's what I did. I had a goal. And

00:31:38.180 how do I get to that goal? Easy peasy. Take some courses, get a bunch of certificates, be a, be a,

00:31:46.620 an intern, you know, be an assistant guide. I did all that. That's what I did. I just, I want to be one

00:31:52.880 of the best guides that Canada has to offer. And, and I don't know if I can, I can ever boast that. I do know

00:31:57.660 that I became an excellent guide. Yeah, that's it. I, I wrote that down. I've been taking notes.

00:32:03.500 Then you probably see me taking notes here. I'm not checking my texts or anything, but I wrote down

00:32:06.820 that concept of the joy of completion. I've never heard it put that way, but that is a really,

00:32:12.200 really powerful way of looking at it because I think so many of us, myself included fall into the

00:32:16.840 trap of getting excited about something. You know, we see that bright and shiny object or something we

00:32:21.140 want to pursue. And we're so fickle in general that we do it and we get started. And then at the first

00:32:28.560 little slight of, of challenge or hardship, we're like, oh yeah, see, this wasn't meant to be. And

00:32:33.060 we use it as an excuse to throw in the towel when we could have built all that confidence and

00:32:36.900 credibility, if we would have just stuck through and completed the dang thing.

00:32:40.440 And, you know, I was quite older in my, in my night twenties. No, older than that. When I first

00:32:47.040 finished something creatively. So I did accomplish my goal of becoming a guide and, and, and a strong

00:32:52.880 guide. So, but I never, I didn't see it as such. I didn't see it really as a completion. The joy of

00:32:58.600 completion I discovered, which was based on my original desires in life, which was to be a rock

00:33:03.500 star. I wanted to be Neil Young. I wanted to be Jimmy Page, right? I wanted to be that. Well, that

00:33:08.100 didn't work out. And, and it was the canoe trip that showed me that, you know what? And I was actually

00:33:14.160 doing pretty good at it. I was producing for much music up in Canada. I was, you know, I had music

00:33:18.300 being shopped to Bruce Springsteen. Like I was in a good place. So let me dance around this a little

00:33:23.040 bit here, just to catch this up. It was in a good place musically. So what was wrong? I still had no

00:33:29.420 guidance, no mentorship. Nobody said, Les, you're, you're sitting there right now with this in your

00:33:36.080 hands. Okay. You need to bust a move and make this happen. Instead, I went and played hockey.

00:33:42.840 I went and played tennis. I went jogging. And I just sort of, yeah, yeah. Oh, I should write

00:33:48.940 another song. Well, tomorrow. Right. So the music came up against that. And then I found the canoe

00:33:55.280 trip and then I became a guide. So after a few years of being that guide, and now I'm going to get

00:34:03.940 to the joy of completion here and why, why for every man listening, understand that the joy of

00:34:07.980 completion is vital to achieve. And well, here, I'll just use the word. Here's what I want to say

00:34:15.740 what it is. It's euphoric from a guy who'd never completed anything. He really started. Okay. I

00:34:23.800 then endeavored to get back into music. Oh, and I write a bit of acoustic songs, singing about nature,

00:34:29.280 stuff like that. I produced and I went and I lived out in the woods with my then wife for the film

00:34:35.100 called Snowshoes and Salted. All right. So I lived in the woods for a year and I filmed it on camera

00:34:39.640 and I was writing some songs, but there's no completion there. Right. That's just, I'm just

00:34:45.440 doing. So any hard knock that could come my way, I could just have stopped that and knock that off

00:34:50.180 and said, okay, well, you don't need to finish the film. You did the year in the bush. You're fine.

00:34:53.920 You know, you don't need to record the songs you've written them. They're fine. You know,

00:34:57.320 no, I knew that there needed to be an end goal with this music I was doing and, and this film

00:35:04.840 that I had made about my adventure in the woods with Sue. So I finally, it took me five years.

00:35:11.900 Somehow I bared down, got the CD done and the DVD. Now that was the day that I stood there with a CD

00:35:18.200 in my hands and a DVD in my hands, almost virtually the same day that I had done. And that's when the

00:35:24.360 euphoria of the joy of completion hit me. And I thought, oh my God, why have I not been doing

00:35:31.600 this my whole life? No one told me how good it feels to finish. That's an important line. No one

00:35:39.740 ever told me how good it feels to finish. And when I discovered how good it felt to finish, dude,

00:35:45.180 my whole life since then has been about finishing what I started, which on a tangent note, doesn't mean

00:35:50.480 you don't, you shouldn't quit certain things that you do start when they turn out to be wrong. But

00:35:53.980 that messiness aside, I finished what I start, even if it, if it hurts, I finished what I start

00:35:59.680 because that's my word. I've got a film I need to finish right now. I don't really want to,

00:36:04.900 but I'm going to, because I gave my word that I would finish this particular film that I was in.

00:36:09.640 And that's, that's something I think men need to, to learn and understand. And if you're 45 and you

00:36:14.320 still don't know this, okay, finish that thing. Actually, you know, there are, sorry, I'll just ramble on a

00:36:19.560 little bit more. There are at least men that are that age, my age, younger than me. I meet them all

00:36:25.140 the time. Yeah. You know, I was thinking about this and I was thinking about that. And sometimes

00:36:29.660 you're 47. You're just going to keep thinking about it. Yeah. And I have a point to make on that,

00:36:36.220 but I'll, I'll shut up for a second. No, I'm, I'm just listening. I'm taking notes. I'm just

00:36:40.440 listening. You said something interesting. You said finishes my word. What did you mean by that? Is

00:36:44.200 that something that you, that like, it's a mantra or something that runs in your head, like finish,

00:36:48.020 finish, finish. What did, what did you exactly mean by that? No, it's, it's, it's just an obvious,

00:36:54.140 you know, that description to finish something is obvious and, but we take it for granted.

00:37:01.200 All right, man, let me just hit the pause button very, very quickly on my conversation with less.

00:37:05.420 You know, I often receive compliments on my ability to converse with some of the most incredible men

00:37:10.640 on the planet, like less. And as weird and strange as this is for me to say, I am damn good at it,

00:37:17.720 but I tell you this not to toot my own horn, but to let you know that my ability to communicate

00:37:22.320 effectively has been a very, very long time in the works. And I also know that it's something a lot

00:37:29.480 of men struggle with. And because of this, we've decided to cover effective communication and more

00:37:34.260 specifically how to communicate like a leader inside of our exclusive brotherhood, the iron council.

00:37:39.620 So if you want to learn how to better communicate with your peers, your wife, kids, friends,

00:37:45.780 neighbors, strangers, whoever join us inside the iron council this month, where you'll get access

00:37:50.920 to the exact tools and information and strategies that I personally use to speak to others powerfully.

00:37:57.840 You're going to also unlock access to other extremely successful men who will teach you,

00:38:02.900 who will guide you, who will mentor you, and also hold you accountable to progress in your life.

00:38:07.880 You can check that out at order of man.com slash iron council. Again, that's order of man.com

00:38:13.720 slash iron council. Do that after the show for now, we're going to get back to the conversation with

00:38:18.100 less. Do you think that this concept of finishing and there's a, there's a theme here that I keep

00:38:25.020 hearing you say, which is I didn't have that mentorship. Nobody showed me. Do you feel like

00:38:29.760 you are, I don't know if called is the right word, but called to do that for other people? Does that

00:38:36.360 where a lot of the, the teaching and the instruction and the desire to help improve other people comes

00:38:42.560 from, does it come from that? I don't allow myself to think that, uh, I, I want, what I want to do is

00:38:53.000 to contribute. So there's a lot of tangents we can go on here. I think there are three ways in which we

00:38:58.800 can contribute. And I will say, you talked earlier about the responsibility of an adult to be that

00:39:05.960 mentor to a young person. That's a responsibility we have. I think as human beings, we have a

00:39:09.800 responsibility to contribute in some way, uh, especially those of us here in North America. I mean, I mean, you

00:39:17.040 know, looking at you and looking at me, you know, we're not hard done by, you know, we're, we're, and,

00:39:22.220 and, uh, hopefully we're decent men. Um, but we, we, we, I'm not disadvantaged in my, in my scenario. I was

00:39:28.060 disadvantaged as a youth. I'm not now. Uh, so the three ways that we can live are the three ways that

00:39:33.100 we contribute are, uh, or the three ways to live us. You either contribute globally, you contribute to

00:39:39.480 your community or you live selfishly. Usually what I say is the three ways to live selfishly for the

00:39:45.480 community or globally. All right. Now selfishly selfishness has to happen. That's why we go to

00:39:50.460 university. That's why you train in the morning. That's what, whatever you do for yourself to

00:39:54.520 improve is that's called, you, you gotta be selfish about it. My daughter is a triathlete. She needs,

00:39:58.820 she's in a selfish mode to be a triathlete. And I fully applaud that. It's like, you got to focus

00:40:03.320 on you right now. You know, you can be altruistic later right now, be selfish, right? Learn what you

00:40:08.940 need to learn. So that's one mode. But the problem is some people, if I'm being a little critical,

00:40:14.320 get stuck in that mode forever. That's the only mode they live in. And selfishness is their life,

00:40:19.020 right? And then, you know, come what may the world and I'll just sit here on the dock with my beer and

00:40:23.300 not worry about anything. It's like, to me, that's, you know, why wouldn't you want to try to

00:40:27.400 contribute now? So now we have globally or community and Godspeed to the, the soccer moms and the soccer

00:40:33.800 dads and those people that have the, the community center things and the programs and all that stuff.

00:40:39.180 They're fantastic. I can't do that. It's, it's not me. It's never been me to do that.

00:40:46.220 When John Lennon said, I don't want to reach 10 people. I want to reach 10 million. I understood

00:40:50.020 what he meant. I'm like, yeah, I know what he means. I know exactly what he means. So I went

00:40:54.000 globally. So I see the work that I do as a creator, right? As a filmmaker, and mostly as a storyteller,

00:41:00.460 more than anything, I see it. I like, I like to get it out there in a global way and just release

00:41:06.860 it to the wind, if you will. And I like that because it could be helping people I'll never,

00:41:13.000 ever meet. I know that's the case. We're never here from nowadays with social media, I get posts

00:41:18.180 and I, and I see the thank yous and things like that. Okay. That's great. But that's not, I just

00:41:22.460 like to put it all out there. And it's kind of awesome to wonder what it might, what you write a song

00:41:26.820 and put it out. I wonder what it's going to do. Well, you know, and then I'll see a post from some

00:41:30.080 guy who says, you know, that song of yours, Dark Side? Well, I'm, I'm bipolar and I, and I, and I

00:41:34.380 suffer from suicidal thoughts every now and again. And when I go down that road, I listen to your song,

00:41:38.520 Dark Side, and it brings me out of it. So I was in tears reading that, you know, there's, that's one

00:41:42.400 thing, right? Or because of you, I, I, I wanted to get back out in nature. Obviously Survivorman was a big

00:41:48.540 thing for stuff like that. So there's our three ways to live. And if not globally, then community-wise,

00:41:53.560 doing things for the community. And then there's hybrids too, you know,

00:41:56.360 sort of mixing and doing a little bit of both, but selfish is good, but not forever. So I'm not sure

00:42:02.380 I didn't answer a question, but anyway, there you go. Yeah, no, it was great. So you, you, you define

00:42:08.860 yourself just barely as a, as a storyteller, but why is, why are the stories you telling are, do they

00:42:14.300 revolve around survivalship and the outdoors? I mean, obviously that's a big part of your life,

00:42:19.860 but you could tell any story. You could have any conversation. There's all kinds of experiences you

00:42:23.720 could have. Why does this speak to you? And why do you feel like you want to share this in particular?

00:42:28.400 It's the thing that, that, that keeps me most alive, that drives me the most, but I don't know why.

00:42:33.800 Why does someone obsess over playing piano? Why does an engineer obsess over coming up with a new way to

00:42:41.700 determine angles and build a building? I just can't not be in love with nature. I can't not be passionate

00:42:51.360 about nature. It's just so easy for me to just to dream and think about nature 24 seven. And so

00:42:57.340 that's what comes out in the work that I do pretty obviously. Now I'm not a one trick pony. I have

00:43:03.240 other interests in other things and they slip out as well. So I don't know the why,

00:43:08.220 but I do, but, but, but, but the, but the end goal of it is to take someone like you and say like,

00:43:17.280 okay, maybe you're a gamer. Maybe you like living in the middle of Chicago. Maybe, you know, you're

00:43:23.040 afraid of bugs and that's fine. But if I could just get you to walk in a forest, just, just for a day

00:43:29.420 on a manicured trail where maybe they've even God forbid, but maybe they've even sprayed it with

00:43:35.780 paramecium. So there's no mosquitoes biting you, whatever. If I could just get you on that trail

00:43:40.220 under a bunch of trees in the park at the end of your road, maybe that's like the minimalist part

00:43:46.840 of my goal is just to get people to, to reconnect with a tree, if you will.

00:43:53.680 Yeah. And I wish more of us would do that more often. I know that every time I'm out in nature,

00:43:58.160 whether like you said, a walk around our field, uh, looking at the trees and the wildlife or being on a

00:44:04.820 hunt or a camp out, it just grounds us. And it's just, it's becoming increasingly rare. We live in

00:44:11.620 these concrete jungles and we're always in cubicles and we don't talk to each other and we don't connect

00:44:16.080 and we aren't where we we've, we've evolved to be. I wish more people would do this and take

00:44:21.280 advantage of it. It wouldn't make it, first of all, science is behind it now. You know, I mean,

00:44:25.820 science, science has been going over that for quite a while. A human being in the hospital

00:44:31.880 suffering requires less painkillers and heals faster. If all they could do is see a tree

00:44:40.600 outside their window. Hmm. Interesting. Now let's, you know, expand that into if they could be in

00:44:49.520 nature, you know, with, I mean, when you go, you forget aromatherapy, you walk in the woods,

00:44:53.580 there's a billion chemical combinations that are bombarding you. And what I love about nature is

00:44:58.600 whether you like it or not, it's working on you. Whether you like, you could go in there with a

00:45:03.300 worst mood of all, you know, vindictive and angry, you know, because like I have to take down my tent

00:45:09.240 platform because the building inspector says it's too big right now. So I'm mad about that. If I go

00:45:15.040 walking in the woods, just 20 feet to the right of my tent platform, I feel better all of a sudden.

00:45:19.520 So, you know, it works on you, whether you want it to or not. And I want to just hop back on one

00:45:25.480 point we made about, about this idea of finishing and accomplishing goals. So a point that I like to

00:45:31.120 make a lot, and it's for all the men and women out there listening, and whether you're 65 or 25 or

00:45:38.200 everything in between, just remember this about your big idea, your concept, the goal you want to achieve,

00:45:47.340 the thing you want to do, it's yours and yours alone to complete. You can walk in a boardroom

00:45:56.680 and say, here's my idea, everybody. Let's all work on this. But if you walk out of that boardroom,

00:46:04.120 it's going to, most of the time, those things just die right on the vine. I mean, I'm not saying if

00:46:08.660 you're a boss and you're giving directors, directives and orders. I mean, if it's your idea,

00:46:11.620 you're the one who has to complete it because you could, you could sit in a room with some people

00:46:19.860 that are really good at the thing that you want to do. It's still up to you to do it. And this is

00:46:25.340 the thing we forget. We think, oh, you know, oh my, and here's what I want to say. Here's how I want

00:46:33.140 to put this on. And I won't be vulgar, but I do want to put it this way so that we, so that I make my

00:46:39.220 point. Your mom, your wife, your brother, your sister, your kids, your friends, your mentors,

00:46:49.640 they're going to support you, might even lend you a hand. They're going to encourage you,

00:46:54.520 but they don't really give a crap whether you finish it or not. They really don't. They have

00:47:00.380 their own lives to worry about. They have their own goals, their own things to do. They're working

00:47:05.060 on this, on that. Oh, you still, yeah, no, you should do that less. Yeah, no. Yeah. Yeah. Let

00:47:09.480 me know if you need a hand, you know, but they truly in the end, yes, even your mom and your dad,

00:47:14.600 they really don't give a, well, I just want you to be happy, dear. Right. It's, it's, it's, it's that,

00:47:20.140 but that thing that's burning in you that you want to accomplish, it's just you, it's just yours.

00:47:25.320 So if you're not going to do it, it'll die on the vine. Forget about it. You might as well just throw

00:47:28.880 it away because with all the good talk around you and everything, that's all lovely, but it's still up to

00:47:33.900 you to get up in the morning, to bust a move and to make, and to complete it, to finish what you

00:47:37.380 started. Most people, nobody else out there cares whether or not you finish what you start. I have

00:47:41.600 an amazing wife who, who I adore and who is the most supportive human being I've ever been with,

00:47:49.440 but she's not going to browbeat me into finishing what I started. She's going to just be disappointed

00:47:56.780 when I don't. Right. Right. That's true. It's interesting. You say this. I just had a, an exchange,

00:48:03.500 an amicable exchange on social media from a gentleman who seemed to be the way he worded

00:48:08.040 his, his comments that he was, you know, complaining that nobody was in his corner and nobody was happy

00:48:14.840 for him or supported him. And my thought and response was why is your action contingent upon

00:48:22.800 whether or not somebody's happy for you? What does that have to do with anything? Try to satisfy

00:48:27.880 yourself. That goes back to the selfish contribution that you were talking about earlier. At first,

00:48:33.180 I think it needs to be that. I want to feel happy with myself. I want to be fulfilled. I want to feel

00:48:37.800 good about being a man of my word, which you alluded to as well. Absolutely. I would say the same thing.

00:48:44.200 I'd say, dude, it's again, it's not about them and, and they don't really care. Yeah. That's that. So

00:48:52.640 that's, this is okay. So here's my insensitive moment where I say, yeah, suck it up. They don't really

00:48:58.320 care. Right. So do you want this thing or don't you, you do really want it. Okay. Are there mentors

00:49:05.080 you can talk to that know how to get this thing? Is there a book you can read? Go listen to Tim

00:49:11.160 Ferris. I don't know. You know, uh, uh, uh, but, but, but suck it up, you know? And again, I can be

00:49:17.440 accused. I don't mean that so harshly. I can, I can be accused of being insensitive that way, but, um,

00:49:22.640 I just think there's a time and a place to say, yeah, no, nobody else cares about this, but I do.

00:49:26.360 And that's how my life was. That's how I was going back to our high school talk

00:49:29.820 and nobody gave a crap about me and nobody gave a crap about my ideas, but I somehow had enough

00:49:37.140 depth of ego, if you will, to care to say, but I do, I do, you know, I'll find a way. And it took

00:49:43.960 me 30 bloody years, but I found a way. Well, you know, you say, you say that might be the insensitive

00:49:49.400 side of me speaking, but you know, I, I'd counter that and say that somebody who's going to tell you

00:49:53.900 the truth or frame an idea or concept in a way that you need to hear it at just the right moment,

00:49:59.820 might actually be the best thing that you can do for an individual. Like, I don't necessarily

00:50:03.880 believe that you're being sensitive because you're being soft on somebody or you're sparing them of

00:50:09.060 their feelings. That to me might not be that you're sensitive to what they need at all.

00:50:13.660 That's a very, very good point. And thank you for that actually, because, um, that's one of my

00:50:18.780 things in life is, is I'm, I'm, I love if somebody is blunt with me, I love if somebody is candid and

00:50:24.960 straight with me, I hate beating around the bush. And so by virtue of that, I am that

00:50:29.800 way. But sometimes I fail to recognize that this person would rather beat around the bush. They

00:50:34.300 need some beating around the bush. And I'm like, well, just do that. Right. Yeah. True. You got to

00:50:39.540 read the room a little bit. I was just discussing this, uh, this morning actually about being

00:50:43.760 situationally aware, you know, and this would be on an interpersonal level being situationally aware.

00:50:50.100 It's like, yeah, this guy needs to hear something straight right now. Cause he's, you know,

00:50:54.420 he's whining. So he's whining. So he's going to have to hear it. Like he's a whiner and here you

00:51:01.880 go, here it is. Or this person is really seeking and they're a little fragile. Okay. Let's, let's move

00:51:07.920 a little slowly on this one. That's, that's, as I said, be a little more, be a different version of

00:51:12.660 sensitive. I suppose you, I like your point. I like your point a lot. One of the things that we talked

00:51:17.900 about before we hit record is you were talking about the, uh, the children's book that you're writing.

00:51:22.300 And I'm really curious about where this pivot comes from, because this is a new angle for you.

00:51:26.620 Uh, is it, was this a goal of yours? Did this pop up? Have you always had an interest in teaching

00:51:31.520 kids and introducing them to the outdoors and survival and all this kind of stuff? Like where

00:51:35.520 does that transition or pivot come from? Uh, it's not a pivot at all, not a transition at all.

00:51:41.700 First of all, as a guide for the aforementioned guiding work, I mean, hundreds and thousands of kids

00:51:47.440 I guided out in the wilderness and taught skills and taught canoeing and everything else.

00:51:51.680 So I always had that. I always get along with kids. Uh, I, I adore most ages of kids actually.

00:52:01.020 Which ones don't you adore? That's actually what I'm very curious about.

00:52:03.820 I think that's sort of 11 to 15, 16. I could do without that era.

00:52:08.640 Yes.

00:52:09.160 Like two to 10 is my, like those little bare feet in their pajamas and they're curled up and they just

00:52:14.200 want to snuggle and you read. Oh, I love that. And, and, um, and then as they become older and

00:52:19.940 they're starting to spread their adult, young adult wings, they become, you know, so, so, so that,

00:52:25.700 and then, but with survivor man, uh, you know, I had kids sending me Facebook pictures

00:52:31.580 of them dressed up as me for Halloween. So if that isn't an endorsement, I don't know what is.

00:52:36.820 Right. So I knew all along that my, my manual called survive still available, still out in the

00:52:41.700 bookstores now. Pound for pound. I will put it up against any survival book out there,

00:52:46.140 including the SAS survival book. We can, we get into that on another conversation, but, uh, I did

00:52:52.200 that book and I, and it's owned by thousands and thousands of kids. So I knew that, that, that, you

00:52:57.460 know, kids, kids just adore nature. They, they, they, they love nature inherently as we all did at one

00:53:02.800 point. And they're much less afraid of it, especially when they're young. So, uh, this book gave me the

00:53:09.000 opportunity to speak directly to them, to tell them my stories, to teach lessons through the stories,

00:53:14.780 to give them some things they can do at home, all in the form that I'm not talking to your

00:53:19.580 teacher or your, your mom, your dad, I'm talking to you. And, and so it was a, it was an opportunity

00:53:24.620 for, to do something that I've always been doing, but just direct to them.

00:53:28.520 Right. And it, and it probably goes into that. I don't want to reach 10 people. I want to reach

00:53:31.980 10, 10 million people, or in this case, 10 million kids. And I can do it this way through this medium

00:53:36.080 and this outlet and technology that we have access to.

00:53:38.660 Absolutely. And, you know, um, Anik Press out of Toronto, um, originally I approached them because I wanted

00:53:44.040 to write a fiction. I wanted to write fiction adventure stories, but you know, that my, my, um,

00:53:50.180 I guess, uh, the stigma, if you will, of survivor man is that, well, but you're, you've written all

00:53:54.240 these documents, you know, these, uh, nonfiction books and your documentary. How about a nonfiction

00:53:58.480 book? Stay in your lane. Right. Sure. I will. And then one day I will write my, my novel and I will

00:54:05.140 write my nonfiction, my, my fiction books and, and I'll prove them wrong.

00:54:09.240 Yes. I like it. I'm anxious to see, you know, it is, it is interesting with kids too. I've noticed this

00:54:13.740 specifically in my oldest son, cause he's very enamored with, with nature and wildlife. And,

00:54:17.720 uh, you know, their children are not so busy. Uh, they don't, they don't come up with excuses.

00:54:23.720 Uh, they don't get as bored. They can, they're creative and they're thoughtful and they see

00:54:27.820 things differently than we do. My, my oldest son, uh, yesterday said, dad, there's a turkey in our

00:54:32.980 field, which isn't uncommon. And I said, okay, you know, that's yes. And, and he said, well, he's

00:54:37.640 injured. I'm like, well, how do you know? He's like, I walked down there and I saw him hobbling

00:54:40.940 around. And so this morning, even before I got home and I get home early from jujitsu,

00:54:45.660 about seven o'clock in the morning, I got home and he wasn't in the house. I'm like, where's,

00:54:49.580 where's my son? Where's Brecken? And he was out in the field trying to find this turkey,

00:54:55.160 you know, cause he's injured and he actually saw him and he saw him hobble off. And he just spent an

00:54:59.980 hour out there wandering around chasing this turkey. And I think you're hitting on it right now is that

00:55:06.060 they, they just love it. And if we could just hone it and refine it and guide it and instruct it and

00:55:11.220 foster it, man, the world would be a different place. Well, I would go heavy on the last word,

00:55:17.260 foster it, you know, um, because true, true to form, you don't want them doing things that are

00:55:23.040 destructive out there inadvertently. So you want to teach them that way. Absolutely. But fostering it.

00:55:27.920 Yeah. And that's that whole, just get, so I have, um, uh, two, how old is your oldest son? If I may ask

00:55:32.740 13, he's 13. Oh, wonderful age. Okay. We're going to get that horrible age. You hate that horrible

00:55:37.080 age. You said wonderful, but you already told me earlier, you hate that age. Well, you're in for

00:55:42.180 it for the next few years. Although I do hear, and I would agree in my case, that boys are easier

00:55:47.440 than girls. And when you're the guy, when you're the dad, so you can, cause you can be the buddy,

00:55:51.300 right. And I'm, I'm best friends with my son. My son is 23 now and he's a wildfire fighter

00:55:55.320 and a paramedic. And, uh, he and I are as close as two high school friends, which I, which I

00:56:00.780 absolutely adore. And I got him out in nature a lot. So, but fostering it, you're getting

00:56:04.540 them out there, um, and allowing them to experience it, experience, experience it on, uh, on their

00:56:10.600 terms, you know, you know, empowering our kids to do things on their terms is a really

00:56:15.500 big thing for me as a father. It always has been. It's like, well, okay, you want to do

00:56:19.200 it that way? And it's like, I can see no harm's going to come of it. It's the wrong way to do

00:56:24.000 it, but it's the way he wants to do it. So I've already suggested another way, but he

00:56:30.940 wants to do it this way. Okay. Go for it. You know, and obviously we're being, we're being

00:56:35.280 the protectors. We're making sure that there's no danger involved and stuff like that, but

00:56:38.020 I think that's wonderful that, uh, that you've said that, uh, we'll have to make sure we get

00:56:42.520 you a copy of what outside form. Oh yeah. He, he'd be all about it. Well, you're, you're

00:56:46.840 also touching on something I wrote down here that I want to do address with you. One thing

00:56:49.960 that I think you do a great job with is making sure that you don't show only and exclusively

00:56:56.080 you doing everything right and correct and accurate. You seem to be so well-rounded and

00:57:04.440 confident enough that you're willing to show some of the things that don't work out or the

00:57:09.240 things where you maybe made a mistake or stepped in the wrong place. And I really respect somebody

00:57:14.480 who can show that well-rounded picture as opposed to just the, um, just the highlight reel.

00:57:19.960 Just the hero moments. Right. Exactly. Well, thank you for the, for the wonderful comment,

00:57:24.940 uh, compliment of, of well-rounded, uh, Ness. And, um, I think, uh, and confidence. Yes,

00:57:32.980 they're there. That is there in my skills as a wilderness individual, adventurer, if you will,

00:57:38.800 or survival guy. However, um, the motivation behind it, because if you watch the Survivorman episodes,

00:57:48.500 all I'm really doing in every single episode is teaching, I'm just teaching. And so, so we had

00:57:55.480 to leave it, you know, without Survivorman, you don't have the rest of the industry. And it comes

00:58:00.600 to survival TV. You don't have alone, naked and afraid, man versus wild, dual survival. You don't

00:58:04.280 edit without Survivorman. When they happened, because they saw how successful mine had become,

00:58:10.040 they didn't endeavor to teach anything. Not really. They were looking for sensationalistic

00:58:15.240 things in the different survival books and say, you guys do this one now, entertain us. Right.

00:58:19.800 So their goal was not to teach. My goal was to be from the beginning to the end. It still is to teach.

00:58:26.860 And we all know that failure is a great teacher. And so if I had something like, if you said to me,

00:58:33.580 Hey, Les, have you ever heard about, uh, starting a fire with, uh, you know, a pop can and, um,

00:58:39.860 piece of chocolate. Uh, you know, I've heard that you can polish it and do the, get start a fire,

00:58:44.380 you know? So I did that on one of the episodes, for example, I did not practice that ahead of time.

00:58:49.720 Anything that I could do that I only just heard about, I'm like, I'm not going to practice it.

00:58:53.760 Cause if I practice it, who am I? I'm guru guy. Look at me. I'm good at everything I do.

00:58:59.040 If I don't practice it and I fail, you see it basically live sort of thing. You see it live

00:59:05.780 right there. And then it's like, yeah, okay. I blew it. And I have my shelter burned down. I've

00:59:10.320 made some crappy shelters, things like that, uh, to show that, that, you know, that's what

00:59:14.920 you're going to do. You're not going to get a fire going every time with a little twig and some thread

00:59:18.780 you're going to fail. So you might as well see me fail because if I fail, now you can see me get

00:59:25.000 out of the mess I'm in. Okay. I failed. I don't have a fire tonight and I've spent all my time on

00:59:30.680 the fire. I didn't make a shelter. What am I going to do now? Right. And that, and, and, and now we

00:59:37.120 have what is real drama, what's really going on. And that's, that's why I love, I love showing failure

00:59:42.180 that way, you know, and, and quickly, I'll just say that with the father son conversation and father

00:59:46.440 daughter conversation, um, when my kids ask me any question, I always answer honestly, even if it's

00:59:54.220 painful, obviously there was a time when I filtered it for age a little bit. Sure. Right. But for the

00:59:59.420 most part, if they asked me, dad, did you ever do this? Or did you ever do that? And I knew the

01:00:04.440 answer was yes. I'd say yes. And then that would become a two hour conversation, right? Because

01:00:08.260 then I could explain myself and why, and this and that. And, and, and, um, and so, uh, yeah, I think

01:00:14.460 it's the same sort of philosophy. It's like as a father showing my kids that, yeah, I'm a fail. I'm a failure

01:00:18.960 too. I have lots of failures in my life, but I'm still going, you know?

01:00:22.400 Yeah. Well, and you know, one of the other powerful points of sharing the truth and sharing

01:00:28.240 the failures and the setbacks, as well as the victories is you're setting up realistic

01:00:32.140 expectations for those you're trying to lead. So the people who are following you and watching,

01:00:36.760 uh, who may want to get more closely connected with nature or get into survival, uh, scenarios,

01:00:43.060 they're going to see that and have a realistic expectation versus just assuming that everything

01:00:48.080 goes right. And then when they find themselves in a dangerous situation, they either don't,

01:00:52.200 they don't keep themselves protected or they think shitty of themselves because, well, you know,

01:00:58.740 like everybody else I follow along with is just perfect. So what's wrong with me? And it creates,

01:01:03.440 I think, a confidence issue that doesn't need to be there.

01:01:06.560 Unrealistic expectations. Absolutely. And I think that goes all the way back to one of your very first

01:01:11.000 questions, which is why women versus men in a wilderness situation. I don't think women have

01:01:16.000 those big expectations, but as men, right. I'm going to have the best fire, the best shelter.

01:01:21.760 I'll probably even catch a grouse. Well, that were all these students on this weekend of survival.

01:01:26.680 They're going to see, they're going to see how I do, you know, and I don't think women go into it like

01:01:31.840 that. Do you find that along the same lines that women are more willing to ask questions than men are

01:01:39.280 because of the reason you're explaining right now?

01:01:45.040 The reason why I'm pausing is because the short answer is yes, but my hesitancy is because I'm not

01:01:52.860 that guy. I ask everybody everything. I have no ego saying, Hey, I really, I'm not getting this.

01:01:58.780 How do I do it? Like, I have no problem asking. You know, I roll as well. I do jujitsu.

01:02:06.120 Oh, do you? Oh, good. I didn't know that. Yeah. I'll have to roll sometime and you can pin me in

01:02:10.860 four seconds. Or I'll tap out in four seconds. And same thing there, you know, a good case in

01:02:17.840 point, for example, my personality is such that, so I'm there and let's face it, they all know who

01:02:22.640 I am. They all know that survival man's in our club. Now, of course, the bad part is I've got like

01:02:28.000 a lot of 30 year olds who are ripped and, and, you know, our blue belt and they want to, you know,

01:02:33.520 they want to make survival man taps like nothing. Yes. You have a target at this point.

01:02:37.680 I have a target on my back, but I'm never afraid in those classes to go. Can you show me that again?

01:02:42.000 Cause I just, I'm not getting where my arm's supposed to go. I keep, why, you know? And so

01:02:46.420 I have, I've just never. So anyway, I'm being meandering with bottom line is I'm not that guy.

01:02:51.400 I have no problem asking questions. I'll ask for directions. Here's, here's my, my, this is not

01:02:57.600 going to endear me to any women who might be listening, but my, my, my one, I think I only

01:03:03.660 have two moments in my life where I'm just blatantly sexist and I kind of, I'm very sorry,

01:03:07.940 but I don't apologize at the same time. And one of them is, is, is asking directions. I just like,

01:03:13.340 I've done it a thousand times and I will, I will actually not pull over to ask a woman directions

01:03:18.780 anymore. Every woman out there is just so mad at me right now. I know, but I'm sorry, but I've tried

01:03:23.800 so hard and just like, of course I will have men be pretty bad at too, but if I'm gambling,

01:03:30.880 I'll look for a guy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, look, I, yeah, I think we all have those moments and those

01:03:36.420 things that, that, that, that we're we're dealing with. So again, I appreciate the transparency and

01:03:43.060 you sharing all of it for sure. Yeah. Transparency is, is, you know, the thing about the transparency

01:03:48.180 and myself and the candidness is it enables me to be me. It means that I never have to come back at

01:03:53.040 you and say, Oh, did I say that before? Oops. I never, I don't ever want to be in that position.

01:03:58.400 You know, we were early on. I was asked to cheat survivor, man. That's how these other shows were

01:04:02.420 created because I refused to cheat my show. What do you mean by cheat? Have a crew build the stuff,

01:04:08.900 sleep in a hotel every night, fake the whole thing. Got it. Make a show. Right. And I remember

01:04:15.340 the first time I was asked and I looked at the guy, the producer guy and I said, listen,

01:04:19.820 the way this show's going, I may very, very well end up finding myself sitting across from Jimmy

01:04:27.080 Fallon, you know, which I did by the way. Yeah. Or Ellen or somebody like that, which I did.

01:04:33.680 I don't want to be sitting there and have them say to me, so what was it like that, that night when

01:04:38.560 the tiger came in and the, you know, and I'm going, well, it was all a bunch of crap. We made it up.

01:04:43.920 I said, I'm not going to be that guy. No way. I don't want to ever have to be because you guys

01:04:50.180 can all walk away. I'm the guy on a television screen, sitting, talking to somebody supposedly

01:04:55.720 being an honest man. I won't do it. You know? So that's where the transparency comes in. I think

01:05:00.700 it's easier to be transparent as far as I'm concerned.

01:05:04.640 Definitely over the long haul, because you're not having to trip all over yourself and stumble all

01:05:07.620 over yourself or get caught and all these other things. And then not to mention the real motive,

01:05:12.180 which is just being truthful to yourself and being able to look the man in the mirror

01:05:15.520 right in the eye and be okay with that. Yeah. And, and listen, none of us are saints.

01:05:20.960 Every single one of us has, you know, regret and regretful things we've said, regretful things

01:05:25.940 we've done. And I remind myself of this fact all the time. If I were to be critical to someone else

01:05:32.980 is to remind myself, yeah, don't forget about you less. Don't forget some of the crap you've done,

01:05:37.800 you know? And yeah, and I, and honestly, I don't think that'll ever change. I think, I think to,

01:05:44.560 to my grave, I'll be someone tiptoeing around the, the temptation to even just fib, you know,

01:05:54.400 the temptation. And I, and I will again, I will fib again. I don't think I'll lie again outright. Now

01:06:01.780 we're, now we're getting nuanced, aren't we? We're really slicing it down. But, but you know what I

01:06:05.940 mean? Like I, you know, I, and, and I just, I think everyone should understand that is where none

01:06:10.800 of us. Okay. I'm a fan of the Avengers movies. And so one of the great lines I just, I just heard

01:06:16.180 from Loki was, well, if there's one thing that I've learned in all of this is that nobody that is bad

01:06:21.980 is truly bad. And nobody that is good is truly good. And I thought, damn, I wish I'd said that.

01:06:29.680 Yeah. Maybe you can rephrase it or something like that, but the point is well taken. Well,

01:06:35.500 Les, I, I really respect you. I appreciate you coming on. I know you've got some projects. You've

01:06:39.980 got Wild Outside, which is the children's book coming out. You've got the Surviving Disasters,

01:06:46.580 which is the, that's a PBS. Is that a, is that a documentary or a series? What exactly is that?

01:06:51.660 So it's actually a pledge special. So, you know, on, on American public television,

01:06:55.760 they do the pledge specials. You can phone in and you can, so they highlighted it for that. It'll be

01:07:00.600 back on in August for a couple of weeks. And then they, they keep putting it on every few months as

01:07:04.800 a pledge special. It's called Surviving Disasters with Les Stroud. And this is a, a documented

01:07:10.300 instructional piece, if you will, on how your aunt and uncle who live in Florida can handle the next

01:07:17.360 hurricane. It's, it's, it's not about preppers. It's not about having your bug out bag. And it is,

01:07:22.860 of course, that's in there, but it's about what all the regular people need to know to prepare for

01:07:28.920 earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, windstorms, flooding, blackouts, freeze outs, all of that.

01:07:34.580 And really proud of that. So that's a 90 minute documentary that's on PBS and it's a pledge

01:07:39.820 special. And then I also have on the PBS stations, it's all, this is all presented by American public

01:07:46.000 television. It goes on the PBS stations. Les Stroud's Wild Harvest. And this is a bit of an

01:07:54.660 extension of Survive Man in a way. It's focused entirely on, I take you out and I show you all

01:07:59.820 the local wild edibles, stuff that's on your lawn, right outside the room you're in right now, or

01:08:03.960 wherever there's a closest bit of anything growing. I'll take you right out there. Plus we go further

01:08:09.360 afield, show you all the local wild ingredients that you can harvest. And then I'll bring one or two or

01:08:14.860 three home. And then I give them to chef Paul Rogalski from Calgary, Alberta, and he turns

01:08:19.700 them into a five-star meal. And so you really, it's nothing, it's not about survival. That's one

01:08:26.300 of my points is I, it's a lot of these plants, all I know them for is surviving. Now Paul turns them

01:08:32.300 into this amazing dish, you know, whether it's dandelion or fireweed, or sometimes we go, we've had

01:08:39.160 some, some meat in the show as well here and there. We even did roadkill.

01:08:44.120 Oh, you did. Interesting. What did you, what was it?

01:08:47.880 Well, the, the, the longer story is simply, we went out to go harvest mushrooms, pine mushrooms,

01:08:54.560 Matsutakis. And we did that day, a huge amount. It was amazing. We just pulled out of my driveway

01:08:59.640 in the middle of the road, laying there, unbloodied, unbroken, just obviously been, been clipped

01:09:06.220 on the head, wild turkey. And so I brought it home, still warm, brought it home and we show,

01:09:13.040 and I, and I said, look, I, I know what roadkill sound, it sounds repugnant, but look what we made.

01:09:18.600 Honestly, it was the best turkey I ever had in my life. So, right. So anyway, that's, uh,

01:09:22.800 Les Stroud's Wild Harvest on public television, uh, surviving disasters with Les Stroud on public

01:09:27.560 television. My new book, Wild Outside for children, uh, ages anywhere from seven to 15.

01:09:34.880 And then, uh, and lastly, for anybody who actually doesn't mind my music at all, I, I, my, my big,

01:09:40.980 uh, sort of rock progressive rock album that features slash and Steve Vai called mother earth.

01:09:45.860 Uh, I'm putting it out on, um, double, it's a double vinyl album coming out very soon.

01:09:49.660 Oh, cool. Busy, busy, busy, for sure.

01:09:52.560 Always. Well, you know, I, I, I, and, and all fairness here in truth is that, uh, I thought this

01:09:57.400 conversation would go completely different than it did. We didn't talk hardly anything about

01:10:01.280 tactics and strategies and survival and all that stuff. Uh, but this was an important

01:10:06.020 conversation. We went way deeper into some things. Yeah. Next time. But the conversation we had was

01:10:10.600 great. Suffice it to say, guys, if you really want to know about survival and the tactics and

01:10:15.100 the strategies, Les is your guy. So there's plenty of information out there and now you get to see a

01:10:19.680 different side of him and some deeper conversations and thoughtfulness that we had today, which was good.

01:10:24.100 I think. Well, my friend, I mean, you led the questions and, and, uh, you can see if you leave

01:10:27.880 me down those, I there's things that I love to talk about and you brought a lot of them up today.

01:10:32.140 All right, man, there you go. My conversation with the one and only Les Stroud. I hope you enjoyed

01:10:36.440 that podcast and that conversation as much as I did. I'm really trying to be better at this

01:10:41.020 conversationalist thing and almost in a way, allow you to be a bit of a fly on the wall or even feel

01:10:47.160 like you're participating in these discussions. Cause I've got access to incredible men like Les and others.

01:10:52.120 Uh, and I want to make sure that I'm empowering you with what you need. So please let me know what

01:10:57.380 you think about the show. Good, bad, and different. Uh, also reach out to Les, shoot him a message on

01:11:01.320 Instagram or Twitter or Facebook, wherever he's doing the social media thing and wherever you are

01:11:05.220 and let him know that you heard him on the order of man podcast. Cause you know, I like to get the

01:11:10.060 credit for that, but more importantly than that, I want these guys to know that you listening value

01:11:16.460 what it is they have to share and say. So connect with less, check out his YouTube channel where a

01:11:21.820 lot of his videos and information is and resides. And I think you're going to learn a lot, not only

01:11:27.300 from him regarding the subjects we touched on today, but also deeper into the survival world,

01:11:33.400 the tactics and strategies, which is something all of us should be working on to some degree or

01:11:37.620 another. All right, guys, with that said, please leave the rating and reviews goes a long way. I don't

01:11:42.320 care where you're listening. If you're doing an iTunes stitcher, Pandora, I heart radio podcaster

01:11:48.120 app. Well, I don't know, whatever, wherever you're listening to this thing, just leave the ratings

01:11:52.160 reviews, YouTube, uh, make sure you're sharing this, take a screenshot, blast it out, send a text

01:11:57.960 to somebody blast it out on the socials. Let's keep growing this grassroots movement, reclaiming

01:12:02.540 and restoring masculinity. I'm going to keep bringing the goods. I ask that you return the favor if you

01:12:07.540 would, by leaving those ratings and reviews. And then also for you, we've got that free battle ready

01:12:11.460 program, which you can check out at order of man.com slash battle ready order of man.com slash battle

01:12:17.740 ready. All right, guys, we're going to be back tomorrow for the ask me anything, but until then

01:12:21.980 go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the

01:12:26.940 order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant

01:12:31.940 to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:12:41.460 Thank you.

01:12:45.800 Bye.

01:12:47.740 Bye.

01:12:49.740 Bye.

01:12:50.700 Bye.

01:12:51.780 Bye.

01:12:54.020 Bye.

01:12:54.380 Bye.

01:12:54.700 Bye.

01:12:55.280 Bye.

01:12:55.960 Bye.

01:12:57.180 Bye.

01:12:58.800 Bye.

01:12:59.380 Bye.

01:13:00.460 Bye.

01:13:01.240 Bye.

01:13:03.880 Bye.

01:13:05.060 Bye.

01:13:07.320 Bye.

01:13:09.120 Bye.

Order of Man - July 27, 2021

LES STROUD ｜ Become a Survivorman

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