Order of Man - LUCAS BOTKIN ｜ Building a Firearms Empire

00:00:00.000 Gents, what's up? I've got an incredible guest for you today. His name is Lucas Bakken and he's

00:00:04.640 the founder of T-Rex Arms. They're a firearms accessory manufacturing company. But this

00:00:10.900 conversation took a very early turn away from firearms and more into how to build a thriving

00:00:16.300 business using the power of social media. But don't worry, all right? We still talk about

00:00:20.980 firearms stuff, night vision, optics, body armor, training, all that kind of stuff. But even if

00:00:26.900 you're not into firearms, we also have some topics for you, including the power of money,

00:00:31.240 how to manage people correctly, human psychology, also making a stand for something,

00:00:36.200 building customer relationships, but ultimately how to build a firearms or any other type of empire.

00:00:42.440 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:47.140 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not

00:00:53.000 easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are.

00:01:00.180 This is who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done, you can call

00:01:05.500 yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler. I'm the host and the founder

00:01:10.860 of the Order of Man podcast and movement. I've got a great one, a very fascinating man and a very

00:01:16.340 fascinating conversation lined up due to popular demand. My guest Lucas has been very requested.

00:01:24.360 So we finally had him on the podcast and I'm excited to bring that to you. Before I get into

00:01:28.140 the conversation, just wanted to let you know that the Iron Council is officially open. I've got a lot

00:01:35.180 of emails, hundreds and hundreds of emails from you guys wondering when it's going to be open. Well,

00:01:38.860 it's open now, but it's only going to be open for a few more days. So if you want to learn more

00:01:43.620 about our brotherhood and I'll talk about it in a little bit later here and what we do,

00:01:48.500 then check out order of man.com slash iron council. Again, that's order of man.com slash iron

00:01:54.420 council. Do that after the show, but also do it quickly because we are going to be closing it down

00:01:58.780 here very soon. For now, I just want to get right into the conversation. My guest is Lucas Bakken. He is

00:02:04.820 the founder of T-Rex arms. He started his business making and selling Kydex holsters, but has since

00:02:12.340 grown to over 80 employees, the guy reaches over 2 million people throughout his social media

00:02:18.820 channels. He's really got an incredible marketing and business mind. And you're going to hear a lot

00:02:23.660 of that in this conversation. Now, I personally have been following Lucas for years because of

00:02:28.900 his proficiency with firearms and what I've learned about him in this conversation goes so much deeper

00:02:35.220 than that. I know that you guys want to hear from this man because you email me and you message me and

00:02:39.780 you tell me. So we finally made it happen. Guys, enjoy the conversation. Lucas, what's up, man?

00:02:46.580 It's good to finally have you on the podcast. I know we've communicated a little bit on Instagram,

00:02:50.120 but to be able to do this is a, is a real treat for me. So glad you're here.

00:02:54.140 Yeah. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

00:02:56.180 Yeah. What's been, what's been new in your world? Obviously, you know, we see you playing around with

00:03:00.220 guns all the time. I don't even know if that does it justice, what you do, but I think that's

00:03:04.980 probably how people interpret it. Yeah. Well, we just finished our big Black Friday sale,

00:03:10.840 which as a, as a business, we end up planning. I think most businesses, at least they should be

00:03:17.860 do a lot of their sort of long-term or at least annual planning around Black Friday. Cause generally

00:03:24.040 speaking, you do a month or two months of sales in three days. And so we just finished that. It's

00:03:28.980 our biggest like event of the year really. And, uh, in between the businessy stuff, cause I have

00:03:35.440 this weird situation where I have to juggle being the CEO and a businessman, and then also go to the

00:03:40.980 range and play with guns. Um, I do get to play with guns here and there a couple of days a week,

00:03:45.760 and, uh, it's still a big part of my job. Uh, but a lot of it's actually, uh, it's more business

00:03:51.520 stuff, um, more meetings and leadership stuff, and then not so much the guns and the shooting,

00:03:57.220 but I still do probably a lot more than that than most people. So, you know, I think what you've

00:04:03.700 done is really cool. Cause there's a lot of guys out there who, well, I've seen research actually

00:04:09.480 that has suggested that anywhere between 70 to 80% of respondents in some of these documents and

00:04:16.300 studies I've seen are dissatisfied with their work. And what I'll hear from a lot of guys is, you know,

00:04:23.500 Ryan, how are you doing order a man? Or how do I start a business? Or how do I

00:04:26.880 pick up something on the side? And then I see what you've created. And this, I think is a pretty

00:04:32.480 good Testament to the ability to take something that you're interested in, take something that's

00:04:37.500 enjoyable to you and then turn it into, I assume is a full-time business for you at this point.

00:04:43.360 Uh, we have 80 employees. So yes.

00:04:45.420 Right. Right. So did it, but it didn't, did it start as a business or is what you do something that

00:04:52.260 you started periodically, you know, started a YouTube channel or an Instagram page while you

00:04:56.880 were doing something else? So it was, it's actually, it's an interesting, I guess, story you

00:05:02.720 could say, cause I was a young guy. I, I was homeschooled, grew up in a Christian family.

00:05:08.360 I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do, what I was going to do as far as a career goes.

00:05:12.980 And when I hit 19, I started to get a little, a little concerned because I didn't have any

00:05:19.320 major career aspirations or anything. I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life. There

00:05:23.240 were some little inklings. I had an interest in protecting people, helping people somehow.

00:05:27.700 I was a volunteer firefighter for some of that. And then I started playing with this, uh, Kydex

00:05:33.320 material, which is used for making holsters and started getting invested in that. But I didn't

00:05:38.400 have the big picture of, you know, the second amendment, the big picture of, um, you know,

00:05:43.300 what a company could do in, you know, influencing how people see firearms. Like I hadn't gotten to

00:05:48.680 that point yet. I hadn't figured that out. That took a few years. So the first couple years of,

00:05:53.860 I started on my own with a thousand bucks. It's all debt-free making stuff in a building without

00:05:59.780 heating and air conditioning, just, you know, the American dream, just making things. And it's,

00:06:05.180 it started to, to blow up. I had a, my first employee and I think it was four months, a part

00:06:10.740 time. And then, uh, I brought on two business partners about a year after that or a year into

00:06:15.940 the business. And, but it wasn't until the, the sort of the mission behind the company evolved,

00:06:22.120 uh, really over a few years from starting the company. So I didn't have this grand plan. I think

00:06:28.040 a lot of people don't understand that they think people, you know, have their whole agenda figured

00:06:31.560 out, especially by age 21. Unfortunately, I wish that were the case. It's not, but, uh, I had to

00:06:38.020 develop that as I went and also from life experience and seeing like, wow, people don't know about guns

00:06:43.620 this way. People don't understand. This is what the segments, you know, for, I didn't know that.

00:06:48.320 I mean, when I got into the gun industry, I thought everyone will be Christian. Everyone will

00:06:51.820 be conservative. Everyone's, you know, on the right, you know, there we're all one big happy family.

00:06:56.860 Yeah, not at all. It's actually pretty bad in the gun industry as far as like, you know,

00:07:02.240 the industry goes. And so I had to learn enough of those things to develop a more thorough sort of a

00:07:10.120 grand agenda strategy, uh, as it were. So that took years, some of it is still developing,

00:07:15.840 but I think we have it pretty well nailed down. What our focus is going to be, what,

00:07:21.660 what my focus is going to be. And it takes time. So for young guys who are listening to this,

00:07:27.680 uh, don't think you can have it all figured out it. Like as soon as you hit age 20 or something,

00:07:34.220 I didn't, it takes time. You have to have some personal experience and life experience to kind

00:07:38.800 of figure things out, but you, you do need to be thinking about it. You know, I was thinking about

00:07:42.100 at age 19 and 20 going, man, am I just gonna, am I just going to be a garbage man? Or am I,

00:07:47.500 you know, is there something, is there other stuff that I can do? And, um, I think that's what,

00:07:52.740 what young folks, uh, and I talked to a lot of young people about this, but young people do need

00:07:57.300 to be thinking about what is something that I can do that's greater than myself. That is,

00:08:01.640 that is more important than myself. Uh, because that is ultimately, at least I can say it from

00:08:06.660 personal experience that gives me a lot more satisfaction with my job than money. Like I could

00:08:13.260 care less about the money. It's knowing the, the work that I am doing is making a positive

00:08:18.060 impact and difference on people's lives. And so you, you obviously want a job where you know,

00:08:23.180 that can happen because that'll make you a happier person. And I think that's what a lot of people are

00:08:26.880 trying to pursue. Yeah. You know, and it's, it's interesting that you're talking about these

00:08:31.240 dichotomies. And I think a lot of guys tend to look at it that way. They think either I can make a

00:08:35.340 boatload of money or I can pursue something significant and meaningful. And in 2021, you can do both

00:08:42.780 and there's quite literally no excuse not to be able to do both. You know, when I think about what

00:08:49.440 I do, if I strip everything else away, I talk to people every day, that's it. And I get paid very

00:08:57.060 handsomely to do it. You shoot firearms, you make firearm products and you get paid handsomely to do

00:09:04.060 it. There's no reason not to do something that you deeply enjoy. You're really passionate about

00:09:09.160 and also make a lot of money. And they're not conflicting ideas.

00:09:12.940 Right. I think the other interesting one is I I've run into people who have like this, uh,

00:09:17.440 sort of a guilt for making money. I mean, you have all these people saying capitalism's wrong. Right.

00:09:22.620 And the reality is there's nothing wrong with money. Now, if you let money control you,

00:09:26.500 that can create all sorts of issues. Um, as, as the saying goes, money is the root of all kinds of

00:09:31.640 evil, not all evil, but all kinds of evil. And, uh, but the reality is money allows you to

00:09:37.860 create jobs and donate to charities and create programs. Like money allows you to do a lot of

00:09:46.760 stuff. Now, if you're just spending it on like boats and yachts for yourself, like, okay, yeah,

00:09:50.860 I, you know, that may not be as useful to people. It makes you happy, but, uh, money is something that

00:09:55.600 should not be seen as a bad thing. Even though I think a lot of people, once they get past kind of

00:10:01.620 the six figures or like the, I don't know, the quarter mill or something after that, it's like,

00:10:06.440 uh, money, any more money than this. And it's wrong, right. I feel guilty, or I'm going to be

00:10:10.580 guilt tripped by people around me. And the reality is no, if you can create jobs for people, especially

00:10:15.080 last year, I think everyone saw last year, people who can maintain jobs and create jobs during, uh,

00:10:20.920 something like, you know, COVID or something, uh, that is a huge service to, uh, the country and to

00:10:26.140 people in general. Like last year for me, that was a big kind of a kick in the pants was like,

00:10:30.500 Oh, creating jobs is actually a way more significant than I originally thought. I originally

00:10:36.180 thought, you know, it's a nice thing we do for people, but it's potentially their livelihood,

00:10:40.120 like part of their life. And, uh, money happens to help with some of that. You know, if you can make

00:10:45.880 more money, you can, you know, afford to hire more people and sustain them and their families. It's

00:10:50.660 pretty simple. And so I do think it's interesting that you have all the, I guess, I don't want to see

00:10:56.160 people on the left, but the people out there, you think that capitalism's, you know, wrong and

00:10:59.840 stuff. And, and I, and I don't want that to, uh, make young guys who are interested in business

00:11:05.820 feeling guilty. If that business starts to make money, if it starts to make money, that's great.

00:11:11.420 You can use that money for a lot of good stuff. So I do think it's interesting that, that there's

00:11:15.720 this sort of guilt associated with, uh, being successful is really what it comes down to.

00:11:21.020 I mean, it is, it's a real shame that so many people have been led to believe that,

00:11:25.100 that, like you said, money makes you bad or greedy or whatever. But, you know, you even said

00:11:30.500 something too, you talked about the boats and the yachts. Like I've caught myself at times saying,

00:11:34.620 you know, nobody needs that big a house or nobody needs that boat or nobody needs this or that.

00:11:38.340 Well, who am I to judge? And not to mention who built the yacht, who built the boat?

00:11:43.480 What fees are you paying to have the boat? Who's going to come clean the boat? What taxes did you pay

00:11:47.860 on the boat? You know, like all of this stuff in a free market society. And I don't totally believe we

00:11:52.700 live in a free market society right now, but yeah, but if, if we move closer to that ideal,

00:11:57.720 uh, that's a good thing. And yeah, I don't think it should come at the expense of other people,

00:12:03.820 but you've got 80 employees working for you. Like that's a voluntary agreement between you

00:12:09.740 and other consenting adults. If they don't like it, go find another job. If you don't like it,

00:12:15.300 pay them less, pay them more. But you two as adults are agreeing upon this together.

00:12:18.740 Yep. So I, so it's, it's pretty interesting. I'm learning a lot right now as the company's

00:12:26.260 gotten bigger because we were under, under 50 employee marks. That's when you have to have

00:12:30.220 healthcare. And that's when your business becomes a big business, your small business. Well,

00:12:33.960 ish, not really, but, um, I am learning right now, probably the biggest thing that I'm learning

00:12:39.580 right now is, uh, is, uh, people management, people skills, uh, cause historically with the company

00:12:47.120 and, uh, this is, this is such a big one. Uh, honestly for people wanting to start businesses,

00:12:51.740 you're going to get to focus on the product and the service for like the first, maybe two or three

00:12:58.000 years. Like you could get your hands all dirty and like the, the process of what the thing is that

00:13:02.400 you're doing. Uh, but after that, as soon as you start hiring people, you are going to be,

00:13:06.380 it just, just, uh, you're going to be deep in people issues and people stuff. And it's not always

00:13:12.280 like bad stuff. It's just, you know, politics between individuals, departments, you know,

00:13:16.940 stuff like that. And so, uh, that's a big one I'm learning. And I'm also learning that, uh,

00:13:22.180 uh, sometimes the money thing, I mean, there's a lot of emotional factors for people. Uh, money's

00:13:27.000 one of them, um, their, their status is another, their position, their, their respect. Um, there's

00:13:32.920 like a few like main items at first. And for some people it's, you know, more than that. It's more,

00:13:39.160 I guess, uh, significant than others. Um, but I'm still learning all this stuff and now having,

00:13:44.640 you know, a lot of employees where now I can't just be in the process of like creating the product

00:13:50.560 or like going and shooting it, you know, on the range. Now it's like, Oh, I got this issue. I

00:13:54.420 got to go in and talk to so-and-so about it and go to so-and-so we've got to, you know, do this or

00:13:58.020 that. And it's a lot of fun. It's really cool. Um, but it is a completely different thing that I

00:14:03.100 didn't expect or I didn't, wasn't thinking about as the company is getting bigger. And I know, well,

00:14:08.020 as soon as we had a hundred employees, it should be next year. Um, that's going to go up more,

00:14:12.620 you know, 150 employees, like, okay, you know, we get, we get the right personnel in there to

00:14:17.600 hopefully, you know, be able to handle some stuff. But at the end of the day, you've, you're still

00:14:22.780 going to be involved in some of that. So that's been, that's been a real fun one right now.

00:14:27.120 This year in particular has been, do you have any, um, any mentors or, you know, coaches or just

00:14:34.640 people in your corner? I know you've got some business partners that sound like that have helped

00:14:38.840 you work through this, because I think you could probably figure out a lot of that stuff on your

00:14:43.360 own, but it'll take time and money. And personally, I'm not interested in spending more time and money

00:14:48.900 than necessary. So have you on the coaching or mentorship route? I have, I have a couple of guys

00:14:54.460 that I talked to who run other businesses and completely different industries, which is actually

00:14:58.280 something that can be really helpful and not, it's not almost the same thing. Um, I've been trying

00:15:03.800 to find, uh, some that I'm actually looking for a coach, a professional coach that I have on a

00:15:10.280 schedule and I've talked to and all that. Um, but I'm also just looking for more people who run,

00:15:15.020 uh, you know, businesses in general. And I'm, I'm, I'm part of an organization that I'm, uh,

00:15:21.300 trying to meet some people within. And most of that, it's kind of, I don't want to say it's sad,

00:15:25.820 but maybe for me it is because I'm not as interested in this than they are, but, uh, so many of them

00:15:31.560 have made their success doing real estate, which is great. You do some real estate investing. Um,

00:15:38.320 I think it's a, I originally didn't think it was a great way of using money. And, you know,

00:15:42.520 my wife has explained to me how it works and she runs some of that and it's great, but you know,

00:15:46.960 that's their thing. So it's all real estate stuff and there you don't, they're not running large

00:15:52.260 groups of people or organizations. It's more about managing money, which is great. That's a skill in and

00:15:58.020 of itself, managing money. And I've had a hard time finding other people that run companies that

00:16:03.940 make stuff that just, who run like an organization that creates a product, uh, you know, retails a

00:16:10.740 product, a service, the real estate, I kind of see the real estate game is like its own. That's its

00:16:16.040 own thing. That's very different kind of run differently. Um, and so I'm trying to find, yeah,

00:16:22.020 people in manufacturing companies, retail companies in general to learn from, because

00:16:27.620 that's kind of what we do. Uh, and then the other one is, uh, other, I don't want to say public

00:16:32.880 figures. I don't like that word very much. Uh, but other people that are in a kind of a similar

00:16:36.960 situation. Influencers. Yeah. Oh my God. Jeez. That's probably the worst of all. Or Brandon.

00:16:42.860 Definitely. Uh, but, uh, but those, but also those kinds of people, because that's a whole,

00:16:48.520 that's a whole different, and you've, you've talked to all kinds of cool people. You probably

00:16:52.580 have all kinds of advice, but, um, that's a whole nother like business. Basically. If you are a

00:16:59.460 public figure, you've got like, is that the whole silo thing, right? You have like your YouTube stuff

00:17:05.480 is like its own silo. You've got your retail stuff. That's its own style. You've got your production,

00:17:09.340 your manufacturing, that's its own. And the, the fame and the notoriety in the, the, the YouTube stuff,

00:17:15.540 uh, cause we have a platform of around 2 million people. So that's a lot of people that are,

00:17:19.520 you know, putting you under a magnifying glass. That's combined on all your social media portfolios

00:17:23.060 or whatever. Right. Sure. So we reach, you know, a quarter mil people a day, uh, roughly who are

00:17:28.380 seeing our stuff actively every day. Um, so that means, you know, 10% of those people have a

00:17:33.980 magnifying glass out and they're trying to figure out, you know, they're trying to find anything they

00:17:38.380 can to discredit you and your brand and your company. And they create little militias.

00:17:41.980 Ridiculous waste of time. I know you'd think if they took all that time and just focused on

00:17:46.780 themselves, they'd be happier, but no, uh, they don't. So I think, I don't know. I don't know

00:17:51.720 about happier, you know, like I constantly think about this, this, even that word happiness. Like

00:17:56.700 I think a lot of people believe that's what we're after. I don't think that's what we're after. I

00:17:59.980 think we're after real problems that are meaningful and significant to us, which isn't happiness to me,

00:18:04.940 it's more fulfillment. And so these people, you know, maybe they're happy, but they're also

00:18:09.580 miserable inside because they're just not content with their own life because they're not pursuing

00:18:14.360 things that are meaningful and purpose driven to them. Well, and they may feel, I mean, they

00:18:19.420 obviously feel purpose of going after their favorite celebrity. Cause I mean, I guess how to give them

00:18:24.680 something, they're getting, they're getting something out of it, but it's just like, are you

00:18:28.520 gonna think back on your deathbed and be like, man, I'm so glad I spent two months going after this guy.

00:18:34.740 I I'm so glad I spent, you know, two years on Reddit talking to a bunch of anonymous people

00:18:39.600 who don't even have profile pictures. And it's just like, uh, so the internet's it, it's definitely,

00:18:44.700 that's been another big one just over the past few years learning. Uh, probably the most fascinating

00:18:50.180 thing to me is learning a human behavior, uh, through this whole thing, uh, with the internet,

00:18:55.400 um, with, uh, uh, people in person, you know, people who talk nice to your face, they, you know,

00:19:01.940 go behind your back and that kind of thing. Um, you know, people try to take advantage of you,

00:19:06.620 uh, companies. And, uh, that's actually been probably the most fascinating stuff for me has

00:19:12.960 been that sort of thing. Um, and then also how other influencers and public figures, how they,

00:19:19.240 you know, utilize their brand, how they destroy their brand, how they build up their brand. Um,

00:19:25.560 I was fortunate to have a guy give me a very clear example of what not to do. Uh, when I started

00:19:30.380 to get a little famous and, uh, I don't like the word famous either, but I started to get some

00:19:34.420 notoriety, right? Some notoriety. People started paying attention. Sure. Paying attention. That's

00:19:39.040 actually, that's the, probably the best way to say it. I started getting people are paying attention

00:19:42.760 and then he, uh, took a big downward, you know, Icarus got too close to the sun, you know, kind

00:19:48.920 of a thing, big downward spiral. And I watched the whole thing. It was like, I'm not going to do those

00:19:53.600 four things because it will lead to that. And, uh, thanks. I appreciate that. So, so do you,

00:20:00.280 so with your 80 employees right now, do you, so you started with Kydex holsters, it sounded like,

00:20:05.020 and then obviously it's probably continued and become more elaborate, more offerings is all of

00:20:11.520 your stuff done stateside and how much of it do you control? Meaning it's within your purview. It's

00:20:19.040 not, you know, like overseas, like there's mother state where you don't have any control over quality,

00:20:23.680 all that kind of stuff. I want to, so all the holsters are made, uh, we make them here in

00:20:28.160 America. Uh, there is one component that comes from overseas. It's the screws. Unfortunately,

00:20:33.340 the primary material, those all made in America, which is awesome. Uh, but a large part of the company

00:20:39.480 now, it's like 80% of our, uh, total sale or 70% or something like that, uh, is our retail. So we,

00:20:46.620 another thing that we do, cause it's a whole nother like business silo is we curate through

00:20:51.660 my time on the range and me like doing a bunch of shooting and stuff. Uh, we curate products that

00:20:56.820 we like. So optics, weapon lights, uh, lasers, cause there's a lot out there. I mean, you go to

00:21:01.900 one of these big, like Amazon style tactical websites. I mean, you look up, you know, red dot

00:21:07.300 and there's a hundred and then the average consumer is like, I don't know what to buy. There's a hundred

00:21:11.460 dollars. It's $500 is, you know, whatever. So we try to the beauty just to interject real quick.

00:21:16.620 That's the beauty. I think of what you do is people get to know you. And this is also the

00:21:21.580 power of social media. They get to know you to, to a degree. They don't know you obviously personally,

00:21:26.240 and they begin to trust you because you're putting so much content out there. And then

00:21:30.860 they go to buy a red dot or they go to buy some sort of optic. And they're like, well,

00:21:34.780 you know, Lucas, like I've been following him for two years. I trust what the guy's talking about.

00:21:39.180 Like that's such a powerful lesson in how, even though social media gets shit on a lot,

00:21:44.120 and there's some reasons for it. Sure. How powerful can actually be if you harness it

00:21:48.180 correctly. And I think you're doing it right. Yeah. Well, I appreciate that. I do think one

00:21:52.380 thing that, um, one thing that I have done probably pretty differently compared to other CEOs is I like

00:22:01.960 to maintain a direct connection to our customer base, sometimes to the point of I'm giving them

00:22:07.500 more attention than my own employees, which that's a whole nother conversation. But, uh, you know,

00:22:12.520 with live streams and stuff like that, like I did a five hour live stream, uh, yesterday,

00:22:16.820 uh, answering questions for black Friday to, um, I don't know how many few thousand people it was

00:22:22.500 or whatever. And that's just five hours in front of a camera taking whatever question we talked about

00:22:27.260 everything. We talked about political stuff and nobody wanted to talk about black Friday. They

00:22:31.060 want to talk about other more important stuff, which is fine with me, but, um, Hey,

00:22:34.780 the black Friday is ancillary. I think people are real, real concerned with real conversations with

00:22:39.980 people they like. Yeah, it's true. So we talked about a lot of that, but I think that is something

00:22:45.000 a lot of businessmen or CEOs, and you do have to be kind of, uh, geez, what's the right word?

00:22:52.080 Cause I'm not, I'm not an extrovert. I don't like hanging out with lots of people normally,

00:22:55.880 which is funny. So I'm fine on camera, but, uh, you do you and your guns and your camera and

00:23:00.380 you're happy, right? Yeah, that's, I'm good. I don't need a hundred people over at the house,

00:23:05.700 but, uh, it does take a, I don't want to say a special kind of person, but a person who's willing

00:23:09.940 to have that kind of attention and put themselves out there and kind of open, you know, pull back

00:23:16.760 the veil, open up their private life to some extent, which is why I think a lot of CEOs and

00:23:21.200 businessmen don't do it because it is another level of stress and work of like, man, every,

00:23:26.240 every second I'm on the air, there's a chance I'm going to say something that I'm going to regret

00:23:29.980 later. That's going to result in lost sales. I'm gonna have to lay people off. And, um, but if you

00:23:35.540 are able to get past all of that, I think the pros, uh, greatly outweigh the cons, uh, as far as,

00:23:42.440 you know, being that transparent, uh, approachable person or not approachable. The word that the people

00:23:48.020 in using for me is, um, uh, drat, what's the word it's, uh, accessible. That's it. Uh, if you're

00:23:54.440 someone who's, who's accessible, you know, where people can find you, uh, that gives them a lot of trust

00:23:59.420 in your brand. Um, I think, uh, Elon Musk is another guy who's pretty, a pretty good example

00:24:05.140 of that. He goes on interviews all the time. He's got people falling around with cameras and people

00:24:10.000 feel like they know the guy, even though they don't get to ask him questions on Q and A's and,

00:24:14.360 you know, polls and stuff like that. And they kind of talk to him on Twitter, but that I think

00:24:18.520 has contributed a lot to his success because he seems like a regular human being, but we all know

00:24:23.440 he's an alien trying to go back to Mars, but he seems like he seems like a normal human being

00:24:28.140 because he has that accessibility. And I think that's something that a lot of business owners

00:24:32.520 need to think about, uh, doing it becomes, there are risks associated with it. Um, but the rewards

00:24:40.460 for it allow you, you allow, it basically allows you to know what your customers are thinking. So as

00:24:45.600 you're trying to navigate where you're supposed to go with your business, um, you will have that,

00:24:50.980 like that feedback that, you know, from one person, the horse's mouth, you're not getting

00:24:54.900 it from a customer service team. You're not getting it from someone else. Your analytics guys,

00:24:57.640 a marketing company, you're getting it straight from the people that follow you. You get their

00:25:01.380 criticisms, which are sometimes valid. Most of the time they're not. And you just have a lot more

00:25:07.180 intel to work off of. If you're willing to put yourself out there at the risks, you know,

00:25:12.920 that can happen. Uh, but with social media, I mean, we've got live streaming services. We've got

00:25:18.420 YouTube. We've got, I mean, there's, there's no reason, you know, you can't get in front of a

00:25:23.600 camera and just say, Hey, here's what our company's about. Uh, here's what we're trying to do this

00:25:28.800 year. If you have any questions, uh, go ahead and ask me like there's, there's this many CEOs doing

00:25:34.000 that. Um, but that brings in a lot of brand loyalty with people. If they see that the leader who's

00:25:41.080 leading from the front is willing to do that sort of thing. So I like to see more of that.

00:25:46.060 I would too. And the beauty of that is it's all free. It doesn't cost you anything to get on

00:25:51.540 YouTube. It doesn't cost you anything to get on social media. You know, you could do that. And

00:25:56.260 like you said, be accessible, but you know, you also said there's a level of risk every time you

00:26:00.320 open your mouth. And I would agree. I think there is, but that said, uh, when you build a brand,

00:26:07.540 we'll just call it a brand for now on certain principles, you know, you have a brand that has

00:26:11.520 principles, obviously second amendment rights are going to be a huge principle of yours.

00:26:15.120 Um, one of our founding principles is sovereignty and maintaining, maintaining control over your

00:26:20.460 own life. When you build it upon principles, I think the risk is reduced because it's not like

00:26:28.340 I'm ever going to say something that is a complete shock to somebody that listens for any amount of

00:26:33.580 time. Like nobody who's been with us for five years is going to say, I can't believe you talked

00:26:38.100 about gun rights. How dare you? It's like, really? How long have you been following us? And so all it

00:26:44.800 does is by making a stand where everybody else is afraid to make a stand on cultural issues,

00:26:50.340 societal issues, politics, all it does is it emboldens you, but it also draws the right people

00:26:58.400 to you. And there's something to be said about that. Yep. It's true. And I think that's why we see,

00:27:02.780 um, I think we've only had ever put out a public statement about something we, people misconstrued.

00:27:08.700 I think we've done it once within eight years, but, uh, remember what it was. I don't, I think

00:27:13.500 it was also super minimal at the time. It was like, whatever. But, um, I think the reason we

00:27:19.480 see companies making flubs or their marketing directors making flubs is they haven't communicated

00:27:25.360 or they don't know what their stances actually are or how hard they want to go on them. Like we know

00:27:30.640 there are certain stances that, you know, this is how hard we go on this. And we've communicated that,

00:27:36.680 I think at least well enough to the people who have the social media logins that these are the

00:27:41.580 kinds of things we do. These are the kinds of things we don't do. So that has also helped prevent

00:27:47.120 us from, you know, having to come out and be like, Oh, Hey, he said a thing. That's one of our employees.

00:27:52.800 He didn't know that my vision, I didn't give him my commander's intent. Uh, he's been fired. And

00:27:58.020 that's the last thing I want to do. Um, even if it's not our fault, cause I don't make the post

00:28:04.060 saying some like crazy thing. Um, but, uh, I, I do think that's why a lot of these companies

00:28:09.540 have these PR troubles is they haven't actually sat down and gone. Are we trying to be mainstream

00:28:14.700 and accessible to everyone regardless of, you know, politics and whatever, or are we going to

00:28:20.340 take these sorts of stands, these over here? Are we going to talk about this? Are we not going to talk

00:28:25.280 about this? And they actually haven't done that. And that's why they run into someone saying something

00:28:30.400 and then they have to come out and apologize or they have to come out and say, Oh, well, actually

00:28:33.740 we meant this. And, and, uh, I think they need to have a more clear, it's not even necessarily the

00:28:39.560 core values, but behind the company, it's just their, uh, what they're willing to say publicly,

00:28:44.660 uh, or that they want to say publicly. Cause that's a whole nother issue is your own agenda and,

00:28:49.940 you know, explaining what you believe to people. But, um, I think that's why I just think our issues.

00:28:54.920 Well, I mean, yes, sure. But also I think people just lack balls. I really do. You're not, you know,

00:29:02.460 it's like, look, I understand a corp, a huge, huge multi-billion dollar corporation. Who's trying

00:29:10.780 to save face and appeal to as many people as possible. I get it. It doesn't work. I understand.

00:29:16.180 It doesn't work. It doesn't work for you. It doesn't work for me. I have like five employees.

00:29:21.280 You have 80, the guys that are listening, you know, maybe anywhere from soul, soul entrepreneur

00:29:27.700 to a hundred or 200 employees, like grow some balls. It's true. Make a stand and know what you

00:29:34.300 stand for. Yeah. Well, and actually a fun example is, um, uh, two of the largest, or maybe it's the

00:29:40.840 same company. This is me not knowing exactly, but, uh, some of the largest companies out there are

00:29:45.820 social media, um, superiors or social media overlords, right. Our tech, they take, they take

00:29:52.740 stands all the time that are not in the middle. At least I don't think they're in the middle. Cause

00:29:57.120 you know, they negatively affect me, you know, going to get after guns and stuff. Uh, they're

00:30:01.220 not afraid to make a stand and upset quite a few people. So if a company of that size, you know,

00:30:07.300 multi-billion dollar like type company can do that. There's no reason you as a million dollar

00:30:12.520 company or $50 million company can't do that. Uh, you can absolutely do that. In fact, what I've

00:30:17.040 found when we've made statements on, we believe this, this is our conviction. We're not budging on

00:30:23.200 this. Uh, about 99% of the time our sales go up, uh, from people. I even get people who are like,

00:30:30.340 I don't agree with that at all, but I respect that you said it. I'm going to go give you money.

00:30:33.920 And I'm like, okay, that's cool. Like I'll, I'll take it and I'll give you a thing in return.

00:30:38.040 I'm not going to take it. I'm not going to take donations, but I'll take your money for a service.

00:30:42.620 And, uh, and so I think a lot of people have this weird idea that they will lose money if they,

00:30:48.820 now, I mean, if you went and said something maybe super crazy, you know, or said like Hitler's your

00:30:54.760 hero or something like, okay, I can understand why maybe people aren't going to want to give you

00:30:57.980 money after that. But, uh, most people, if they just put out their convictions, even as simple as

00:31:02.800 they are like, Hey, you should have personal responsibility over your life. Yeah. You'll get sales

00:31:08.540 for saying that, which is pretty crazy. Cause that's, you know, not even that crazy of a thing

00:31:12.460 to say, but, um, but yeah, I, I agree in this day and age. How dare you say that we shouldn't be

00:31:21.220 entitled. Can you, um, with, with your business, you know, in firearms and all of that, can you even

00:31:28.640 advertise on social media? You personally, you can't, right? We can't, uh, do all the paid,

00:31:34.940 like official sponsored ads now. So we, but you make your posts and you say, Hey, go check out

00:31:40.420 this link or whatever, but you can boost it or, or advertise on it. Correct. Uh, and if I, if I,

00:31:45.140 if I make the post, uh, and this is actually another fun one, if I make the post too obvious,

00:31:50.420 it's a sales post, Instagram will remove it. Um, and then, and then I have to like submit a thing

00:31:55.160 saying, no, I'm not selling guns. And then, you know, 8% of the time it comes back. Cause they review

00:32:00.580 it. Some dude in Silicon Valley looks at it and goes, Oh, I guess that's not a gun. And it's okay.

00:32:06.000 But, uh, yeah, they, they've cracked down on, uh, advertising, like direct advertising for your

00:32:11.640 brand. But the fun thing with us is it really didn't affect us that much because we don't

00:32:16.120 treat our social media, uh, like a sales platform. Uh, and I honestly think it's the way to do it. If

00:32:22.100 you spam people with, Hey, this new product came out, Hey, go check this out. You know, uh, it just,

00:32:27.660 it turns people off to your brand. Uh, it becomes, they just get inundated with these,

00:32:32.760 these ads for product. And so kind of our strategy, and I'm a horrible salesman. I rarely even talk

00:32:37.760 about our own product. I'm not even wearing our own hat right now, but, um, it all, it all helps

00:32:43.520 though, but I'll send you an order of Manhattan. So you can wear that one instead. If you're not

00:32:46.840 going to wear yours, wear mine. Exactly. I'll definitely wear that one. But, uh, I have a very,

00:32:51.820 I have a few hats and I I'm very particular about whose hat I wear. That's, that's a big deal.

00:32:56.200 And, uh, cover all logos up on clothing usually. And yeah, stuff like that. But, um, the, uh,

00:33:02.620 the sales sort of strategy that we've taken is we want to give people value with our social media

00:33:07.520 or YouTube, uh, YouTube videos don't even cover our product. Usually, uh, you know, whatever it

00:33:12.600 is that we're putting out there has to give value to people in some other way. Uh, in the process,

00:33:16.980 we may use our products to communicate the, the, the principles like, Hey, I'm going to show you guys

00:33:21.500 how to shoot pistol. I'm using our holster. Do I talk about it in the video? Probably not.

00:33:25.880 Cause I'm not thinking about it. I'm thinking, but people are going to ask about it. They see

00:33:29.060 it and they're like, Hey, what, what holster are you wearing? What firearm, what site are you running?

00:33:32.580 All that kind of stuff. Yeah. So what we found is that strategy where you give, you give people

00:33:37.220 value 80% of the time that is separate from your own brand. And then 20% ish you say, Oh yeah,

00:33:44.280 we have this new practice came out. Oh yeah, we do. This is the product that I use that I've been

00:33:48.640 using for months. Um, that sales strategy works. Uh, it works very well for building brand loyalty.

00:33:57.480 Uh, the whole, like just pound people with sales that probably actually works pretty well for

00:34:02.920 getting sales. But the question is, what are you doing long-term for your brand by doing that?

00:34:08.940 Uh, like I don't, I don't want to get, I love you. This is an example. Like I don't necessarily want

00:34:14.040 to get hobby lobbied. I like hobby lobby, but they know they have sales going all the time.

00:34:18.000 You walk into the store and it's, we got all these sales going on. I mean, they've got stuff

00:34:22.120 going all the time. And at this point I disregard them. I'm like, I don't care. I know you have them

00:34:25.600 going all year. I don't, I don't need it. And I mean, it's like, I'm not going to pay attention

00:34:29.060 to it because you have it here. It's funny. Every time I walk in the other day, I went out, uh,

00:34:33.580 shopping with my wife, did some Christmas shopping. I went into a store and we bought some clothes and

00:34:37.260 they said, you know, the bill's $400 or whatever it was. And they said, you saved $113 today. And I'm like,

00:34:42.660 well, how did I do that? And she's like, we just have a sale. I'm like, oh, okay. Like,

00:34:47.920 I don't know if I would consider that like saving anything, you know, but I see what you're saying

00:34:53.980 is like, if everybody's blasting all the time, it just becomes annoying. And I think there's a cost

00:34:59.340 associated with that too. But what you're doing is more in integrity anyways, because it's very easy

00:35:06.900 for me to say, use X, Y, and Z companies versus actually wearing a product or using a product,

00:35:13.280 whether it's my jujitsu gi or your firearms and, and people see it and they're like, oh, okay,

00:35:18.820 well, Ryan actually uses that. So I trust that more than the cleverly worded sales pitch that he

00:35:24.740 promoted, you know, last Friday for black Friday. Yeah, no, it's true. And, and, and the,

00:35:29.900 the difficult thing with the sales strategy is what it requires is that you, you have enough

00:35:36.980 value to give people 80% of the time outside of your product. And that's a lot of work. So next

00:35:43.340 year, one thing I'm probably doing for next year is because this year I wasn't able to do it. I

00:35:47.980 normally train on my own without cameras, without anyone a day, a week, like I go out and for a day,

00:35:53.260 I test product, whatever it is I'm doing or some other skillset. And I haven't been able to do that

00:35:58.460 this year because the CEO responsibilities have gone up and there's a bunch of other stuff as

00:36:02.580 well that if I got married, that, that, that definitely affects things a little bit.

00:36:06.660 You got married this year? Yes. Yeah. Cool, man. Congrats. Yeah. Well, thanks. It's, it's,

00:36:13.060 it's been great. She's very supportive and we're, we're, we're definitely a power couple. I would,

00:36:18.100 I would say. I won't tell her it took you so long to answer what year you got married,

00:36:21.300 even though it was within the last 11 months. We won't bring that up. No, no, you're fine. You're fine.

00:36:25.980 Um, well, so, so, uh, what, what happened with that is, so again, being a, being a public figure

00:36:32.500 or whatever, um, we got married pretty soon after we got engaged. Cause we were like, this is dumb.

00:36:38.420 We're not going to, we're not going to be engaged for a long time. Um, and, uh, we just do to the

00:36:44.020 internet and stuff. We didn't tell people right away. Cause I didn't want all these people prying

00:36:47.300 into our lives. Cause they already do that enough as it is, uh, trying to find a relive and trying to get

00:36:51.640 my phone number, just stupid stuff. And, um, so we just, you know, private life is private. And then

00:36:57.040 we announced it recently. Oh yeah, we got married. Like, sorry, we didn't invite all 2 million of

00:37:01.540 you to the wedding, but you know, how dare you? That's just how it is. Um, but I'm actually hoping

00:37:06.880 to bring her onto a live stream, uh, at least once, um, to answer some questions and for people to kind

00:37:12.980 of get to know her. Cause she's awesome. She's great. Yeah. And they're very curious. Um, and she's got

00:37:17.760 some, some, uh, she's helping people with some real, uh, investing like advice and stuff. Cause

00:37:22.320 that's her thing, uh, that she does a lot of study on. But, um, so as far as I was saying,

00:37:28.540 oh yeah. So the thing that I'm doing for next year, and I think this is something that I think

00:37:33.080 it has a lot of merit is because I don't have time to, you know, work on that 80% value to contribute

00:37:39.060 like the extra 80% value we're trying to give people outside of the product. Um, what I'm probably

00:37:44.260 going to have to do next year is, uh, tell my guys, tell my team, Hey, every Friday, I am not

00:37:49.920 going to be available for work. Like that day is going to be dedicated to personal development of,

00:37:55.340 of shooting, uh, uh, traveling to a, you know, a course or a training thing or flying some expert

00:38:00.720 out here to work with me for a day or going to some, you know, business coaching thing or whatever.

00:38:05.520 And every Friday, it's just going to be personal development to aid in that. Cause the 80% we're

00:38:10.920 trying to give people, it's not our product is a product in and of itself. Like it really is.

00:38:14.740 It's a, it's a thing that we're offering and that requires, uh, you know, a pretty in-depth,

00:38:21.880 you know, personal development plan, building that. Cause the last thing I want is I have,

00:38:25.220 you know, this much knowledge and that's all I have. And I just regurgitate that every year.

00:38:29.640 Um, I want to build on it, have new stuff, learn new things, build new perspective. And that takes time.

00:38:35.760 So, uh, that's the thing I've been playing. The idea I've been playing with is, Hey, you know,

00:38:39.700 50 days of the year, I have specifically set aside for doing whatever it is that I need to do to

00:38:45.640 develop that knowledge and that skill. Cause I just can't do it anymore. Um, with all the other

00:38:51.140 responsibilities going on right now. And, uh, just kind of creating that expectation for people

00:38:56.260 and then building a plan around, okay, well, this Friday, I'm going to do long range. And, uh, next

00:38:59.840 Friday, I'm going to work on this, you know, standard that we have to do. And this Friday, I'm going to

00:39:03.000 work on, you know, this new product. And then this one, I'm going to travel to here to go,

00:39:06.100 you know, hang out with so-and-so and talk to them about whatever. And, and that's part of the

00:39:10.400 job is going and seeking knowledge to give people. It's a good idea. And it's, you know,

00:39:16.860 I found that the busier I personally get, the harder it is to do. And the harder it is even at

00:39:23.280 times to justify doing it. You know, for me, for example, I'm in the process of writing a book right

00:39:28.560 now, that's going to come out next year. And so part of that is I'm required just because I want this

00:39:34.120 to be a good book for people is to do the research behind it. And it's very easy for me,

00:39:40.340 even knowing that I have this plan and this goal to not research today or not to read today,

00:39:45.840 because I got all these emails and I got these people and I have to make this social media post.

00:39:50.920 And what I've allowed happen in the past is to let all of this noise and this chaos,

00:39:57.660 right. Really. And it's important. I'm not saying it isn't, but all, all of this noise and chaos

00:40:02.620 to distract me and really just kind of mess up the priorities that I have as I think about my goals

00:40:10.360 moving into next year. Yep. And you've written, correct me if I'm wrong, you've written two

00:40:14.200 books so far. Is that one, this will be my second book. Yeah. This will be my second book. Yeah.

00:40:18.880 Gotcha. Very quiet pain. I do not like writing, man. I do not like writing. No, I hate it,

00:40:24.760 but it's important. And so I put it out because it's important. It's another medium to get the

00:40:28.920 information out. Are you focused? This is actually, I'm this, I'm very curious about this because as

00:40:33.840 you know, people don't read anymore. Well, unless it's on their phone and it's this much stuff,

00:40:38.280 they don't read anymore. Um, I would assume it's mostly men reading your book, although men

00:40:43.000 aren't reading as much, probably. I mean, there's probably studies. I kind of doubt men are reading

00:40:47.080 as much as women are these days, even though I think reading is women, women do generally read,

00:40:51.440 read more, uh, than, than men. Um, and so what we found is in spite of that, whatever platform you

00:41:00.060 look at, whether it's YouTube or our email list or Instagram or a book, it's usually going to be

00:41:06.560 about 80 to 85% men, 15 to 20% women. That's typically, that's pretty generally what it is

00:41:13.460 across all platforms for us. So is book length something that you consider, or are you like,

00:41:19.640 I don't care if it's long, it's long. And if it's short, it's short. And if dudes are going to read

00:41:24.020 it, dudes are going to read it. Or do you give any thought to, yes, I do. And here's why, because

00:41:29.140 I have goals of reaching New York times. So in order to do that, if you look at what books are

00:41:34.900 reaching the bestseller list, you know, they have minimum word lengths. So, right. You know, you try

00:41:39.820 to, you, you got to hit those lengths. You got to hit those parameters. Um, and yeah, obviously

00:41:44.760 I want to put together. Oh, you're saying, gosh, you're saying a minimum. Yeah. It's because if

00:41:49.640 you put together a small book, here's kind of a smaller book. If you put something together like

00:41:53.820 that, that's kind of like an ebook style pamphlet, you know, thing you could read in the bathroom,

00:41:59.220 like it's valuable. I'm not saying it's not valuable. Sure. Sure. Probably won't reach the

00:42:03.320 bestseller list. Yeah. It doesn't have the perceived value of a larger. So you just need to print a book

00:42:08.620 with a 20 point type and have the margins really high school thing. I was thinking about doing Ron

00:42:15.080 Swanson's thing where he wrote a book and wrote a manual for his, you know, like his, his version

00:42:19.820 of the boy Scouts. And I think it was a bunch of blank pages, if you remember. And then there was

00:42:25.000 one, one sentence that said, be a man, I think is what it said. So I'm thinking about just recreating

00:42:30.200 that, but I don't want to plagiarize from Ron Swanson, of course. Yeah, no, you shouldn't be doing

00:42:34.780 that, but, but that's, that's a good goal. Uh, New York times. I think that's, what is it?

00:42:38.060 10,000 copies first week or 20 or total or 20,000 or what is it? I, I actually don't know

00:42:43.320 what it is right off hand. I decided to go the publishing route to have somebody come in

00:42:47.380 and help me with that side of things. So they're helping me with the marketing and the publicity

00:42:52.740 and the metrics and all that kind of stuff. So right now it's like, just right. That's all

00:42:56.900 I'm thinking about. Just right. And then you do a book tour for a year and then, yeah,

00:43:00.380 it's a whole like thing that they're getting it all set up. The gal emailed me yesterday and she's

00:43:06.160 like, here's your marketing plan. I'm like, Holy cow. Like this is legit. So that's awesome.

00:43:12.540 Hey man, hit a pause on the, on the conversation real quick. I told you earlier, the iron council

00:43:17.940 is officially open as of right now. So if you're not familiar with what the iron council is,

00:43:24.460 please consider it your band of brothers. Uh, these are over 1000 men who have all had,

00:43:29.440 or we'll all have your back on your own journey. And not only are they on their own journey,

00:43:35.740 but we found that what they understand is the more that they want out of their own experience

00:43:41.040 here in the iron council, that the more they're willing to give in return. So we've got lawyers

00:43:46.260 and entrepreneurs and successful businessmen and fitness experts, financial experts. These

00:43:52.040 men are absolutely incredible. And you have the opportunity to tap into what these guys know

00:43:56.900 and the accountability and brotherhood that comes from knowing them. So if you're ready to blow up

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00:44:31.140 of 2022. So if you want to join us, you've ever considered joining us right now is the time you

00:44:37.780 can do that at order of man.com slash iron council. Again, order of man.com slash iron council. Do that

00:44:44.660 after the show for now, we'll get back to it with Lucas. Look, I want to, I want to shift gears a

00:44:50.140 little bit. You were talking about moving into 2022. I'm actually really interested in you being

00:44:57.900 an insider, what you feel like the trends of the firearms community, uh, how, how politics and just

00:45:07.880 cultural thinking has maybe shifted with our relationship to firearms and what you see us

00:45:14.740 going towards in 2022 and moving on. So I think one of the big ones has been when you have a, a,

00:45:22.020 a predominantly a peacetime society or country, people get to focus on fun stuff. I was talking

00:45:30.060 about this some yesterday, you get to focus on, uh, I was talking about in terms of certain guns,

00:45:34.340 you know, we're not in war right now, so we can dabble with some like fun novelty kind of gun stuff.

00:45:40.440 If war were to kick off tomorrow, we wouldn't be thinking about that, worrying about that, buying

00:45:46.660 that we'd be buying only stuff that is used for war. Like that's it. World War II. There's lots of

00:45:52.180 other instances where you could see manufacturing changes. When you say we, you're talking about

00:45:55.060 the consumer? Is that what you're saying? Yeah. The consumer, the public and what we're seeing and

00:46:00.460 what I've been seeing, cause I've been doing this now for eight years. And I remember eight years

00:46:03.460 when I got into it, um, you know, we were still in GWAT and doing stuff, but it was peacetime here in

00:46:09.380 America that people weren't that interested in body armor. Um, I would get crap for wearing body

00:46:14.260 armor as a civilian. Um, as soon as I put an IR laser on my rifle, people were like, well, why,

00:46:19.200 why do you have night vision? And this was like six years ago. Uh, nobody says that anymore. Uh,

00:46:23.380 nobody makes fun of people anymore for wearing body armor, um, having military equipment, having night

00:46:29.180 vision. I mean, that's the new like status symbol in firearms, um, night vision, which rightfully so

00:46:35.260 seeing in the dark is pretty cool. But, uh, I do think as the country, uh, and I wouldn't say

00:46:41.680 we're in like war or anything right now, we're still in peacetime, but as things warm up, which

00:46:46.700 I think they will every election moving forward. I mean, they have been the past, uh, a couple

00:46:52.420 elections, but we have the election domestically mostly. Yeah. I'm not really the whole scenario of

00:46:58.940 like red Dawn and like other countries invading. That's, that's a whole discussion that people

00:47:03.740 should think about, but I don't know if it's as reasonable to assume it's going to happen

00:47:08.540 compared to what's already happening domestically and what is going to happen domestically in the

00:47:13.980 next election. Cause every election we're seeing that the two sides are getting more and more

00:47:17.720 divided when we're seeing it to the point of violence. Originally it was just to the point

00:47:21.820 of shouting and, you know, maybe following someone to a restaurant and berating them, but now it's like

00:47:26.400 getting to violence, you know, you know, eight years, you know, down the road. So this election,

00:47:31.660 I think is just going to be that with a little bit more sprinkled on. And then the next one will

00:47:36.960 be that and a little more sprinkled on. So unless there's a major cultural change in the country,

00:47:41.080 which I don't see happening in the next decade, I don't, cause it takes decades, generations for

00:47:46.360 people to completely change, you know, how they see things and their kids and you know, whatnot.

00:47:50.720 So we were in this catastrophic events can change quickly, but it would take something catastrophic.

00:47:56.080 Correct. Something like a civil war or foreign invasion or something like that,

00:47:59.840 or even the U S dollar bottoming out or something like that. So as the country moves more into a

00:48:05.080 more, uh, I guess a concern, a concerning time, what I am seeing in consumers is they are less

00:48:11.660 interested in just buying a gun and putting it in the safe. And they're more interested in buying

00:48:15.840 what's the next thing and sort of leveling up as a gun owner. So it's body armor. We saw a lot,

00:48:20.760 we saw a ton, literally tons like weight of body armor. Uh, last year we sold, I think they said it

00:48:27.080 was like 20, 12 metric tons of armor, something like that last year. Um, which years before

00:48:33.280 wouldn't have sold people just more interested in, uh, but as soon as you start having, you wear body

00:48:37.780 armor, you said, where do you, where do you wear it? Uh, chest. Uh, it's, uh, no, I don't mean

00:48:44.040 where on your body. I mean, where like out in public, like when you're in large crap, like where do you

00:48:48.460 where, if, if I'm in Chicago, I, if I, um, yeah, at the range, uh, particularly, but, uh, one thing

00:48:55.200 that we did, uh, when the, the, the, the peaceful, the, the peaceful times were happening last year,

00:49:01.620 uh, there were some threats, uh, to a bunch of people, I think is how they were raised.

00:49:06.020 They were very peaceful. Uh, we, we got the call that there was going to be some peaceful activity

00:49:11.980 in a town near us called Franklin, um, bougie part of Nashville. And I had a friend who ran a security

00:49:17.360 company and he contacted some of our guys and we said, Hey, well, if you've got five or six

00:49:21.820 businesses, you're going to go check on cause you know, they're asking you to, uh, we'll come lend

00:49:27.000 bodies. So we went out there, we had full kit. The cops knew we were there. Um, we also had our

00:49:32.920 night vision. The cops didn't have night vision. So we had a capability that they didn't have.

00:49:37.460 And we went and talked to them. They said, yep, you guys are good to go. Uh, thanks for letting us know

00:49:41.640 you're here. And we just made the rounds, uh, in minivans and I wore armor for that. Cause I mean,

00:49:47.360 we're mounted, we're not walking for miles. So I may as well wear my armor. I don't think anyone's

00:49:52.420 going to be shooting. Thankfully they didn't, but if you have it, you know, and you're not walking

00:49:57.260 for 10 miles through the entire town, then that's when you wear it. So, um, what's your, uh, what's

00:50:03.880 your take on something like, like that activity. So you and, and, and some individuals in a militia

00:50:11.360 type capacity, I would say, right. Would you disagree with that? No, that's, I think, okay.

00:50:16.880 Unfortunately, the word is so I know, but that's what it is. It is what it is. Yes. All right.

00:50:22.360 So let's call it that because that's what it is, whether or not people have a stigma associated with

00:50:26.180 that. Sure. What's your take on that in light of what's happened over the past year with the

00:50:31.440 culmination of the Rittenhouse trial and do people have the right to go out and bring a gun? And then

00:50:36.820 if they defend themselves, is that really defense or they, were they aggregators like, or agitators,

00:50:41.720 I should say, how has that changed if at all for you and your perception of it?

00:50:45.740 So I think this is an interesting point with the Rittenhouse trial. So leading up until the

00:50:50.840 shooting, there are lots of videos and photos. And I remember seeing them during the day before

00:50:55.600 the shooting happened of people berating them at one location. And there were like six of them.

00:51:01.060 There was like this bald guy with a bunch of multi-cam kit. There was a guy who looked like he was out of

00:51:05.200 a movie. There was Kyle. And there were, there were a couple other dudes. They were like,

00:51:08.240 there were like five people while they were together as a group protecting that one business.

00:51:12.860 Nothing happened. They got yelled at, they got spat on, like they got probably some little pebbles

00:51:17.740 thrown at them and stuff, but nothing happened as a group. It wasn't until he got separated.

00:51:23.020 And then, you know, people started to try to, you know, mess around with him is when things kicked

00:51:29.060 off. So the real learning point for that one is if you are wanting to engage in an activity of

00:51:35.660 protecting other people's stuff or your own stuff, let's just say it's your own stuff.

00:51:40.260 Don't do it alone. Have a bunch of friends. And if you are in a group and you look somewhat

00:51:45.580 professional, so like what we wore is we wore Ranger green, which is a very official looking,

00:51:51.720 you know, color. We look very official. We looked professional. We weren't all wearing our night

00:51:56.860 vision, but we had it in our bags and stuff. And so armor, belt, pistol, active retention, holster,

00:52:01.840 suppress rifles. We, if people saw us, they would think, wow, that's probably the undercover SWAT

00:52:08.100 team or, you know, whatever. We don't look like a bunch of, you know, ragtag people from the woods

00:52:14.540 that have just come out to the city to, you know, throw down with the city boys, you know? So I think

00:52:20.180 that's a concept that people do need to think about that we've been talking about for a while.

00:52:25.840 Like if you are going to put yourself in a position in the public, so you're in the public eye,

00:52:31.280 you really need to think about your appearance. It's why police departments and militaries like

00:52:35.600 uniformity is a huge deal just from a professional standpoint, a target discrimination standpoint,

00:52:41.700 like knowing who's who and, uh, and a deescalation standpoint, because they're less likely to escalate

00:52:47.000 if they see something in some sort of, even if they just interpret it as official capacity.

00:52:51.500 Yep. Yep. And if they ask that, who are you guys? You don't have to answer. I mean, don't

00:52:56.360 pretend like you're a law enforcement or anything, but you don't have to answer. You'd say, I don't

00:52:59.540 have to answer that. And then they're like, oh shoot, these are like, maybe these are spooks and

00:53:03.540 we really shouldn't mess with them. So I think, uh, people need to think about the professionalism

00:53:08.720 that is associated with the activity that they're doing. And are they coming off as professional or

00:53:13.300 not? Do they look, um, like a, uh, uh, like a well-regulated militia, you know, a professional

00:53:20.100 unit, or do you look like a bunch of ragtag hillbillies who just showed up to maybe, um,

00:53:28.420 yeah, maybe cause trouble or just, you know, it's fun. Cause it's, it's the fun activity

00:53:32.740 happening over the weekend. I think that's why people, I think that's why people protest too.

00:53:37.020 It's the fun activity for the weekend, uh, that everyone shows up to do. Isn't that why people,

00:53:42.160 not all of them, but I mean, I think they believe in many instances that they're doing it for,

00:53:47.820 for the right reasons, but it ends up being, but burning cars is so fun, burning dumpsters.

00:53:54.420 It's so fun. So, so that whole, so I do think it's something we're going to see more of.

00:54:01.780 Um, the court case has set a precedent that, uh, if you do go to do this sort of activity

00:54:08.880 and you are attacked while you're there, it can be self-defense. Um, even if you did show up,

00:54:15.360 um, with a firearm, uh, you know, ahead of time to do, which is completely legal.

00:54:21.060 Yep. Completely legal. I, I travel the whole state lines thing. It's the funniest thing.

00:54:24.780 I travel with guns every time I go out of state, like, and to me, it's, I'm in America. I'm not

00:54:30.740 going to, unless I'm going to California, which is, you know, California or something. I'm going to

00:54:34.920 America. Like I don't care about state lines as I'm like moving around with guns and stuff. And so

00:54:40.660 it's funny that that was the hill people want to die on, especially since I don't even think

00:54:44.180 he took that firearm across state. Yeah. I think that was, I hear what you're saying,

00:54:49.440 but I don't even think that was an issue. Yeah, no, I think it was determined. And then

00:54:52.700 that brings up a whole nother point that I've brought up is, and this is one people need to

00:54:56.200 think about, particularly for this issue. What is your community? Because there are people like,

00:55:02.520 if I like, let's say riots kick off up North. Like I think they sort of kind of are,

00:55:06.560 is that my community? I have a responsibility to go up and protect 10 hours away. Maybe that might

00:55:14.560 be a stretch me driving an hour to Franklin where I take my wife on dates. I know people there. I

00:55:22.340 could potentially work there. That is much more my community that I could argue than another state

00:55:29.280 eight hours away, something like that. And I think that's something people need to think about is your

00:55:32.840 community, only your house, only your neighborhood, only your town, or is it your surrounding area,

00:55:38.300 your stomping grounds, as it were, that you are doing everyday activity in. And I think that's,

00:55:44.280 people haven't thought about it. I mean, and I haven't thought a ton about it. Like, man,

00:55:47.020 how far will I actually go to help people in America? Will I travel to Alaska to help people,

00:55:53.120 you know, fight bears and stuff? Probably not. Would I go down to Alabama because a hurricane comes

00:55:59.140 through? Absolutely. That's only one state away. They're a neighbor. I would do that sort of thing.

00:56:04.740 And I think that community aspect, as far as moving forward with, you know, going into midterms in the

00:56:10.940 election is something people need to think about their professionalism as an organization. Do they

00:56:16.000 have people on the ground that they can communicate with? Like, don't just, like, we didn't just want to

00:56:20.840 go to Franklin and Kit to just walk around randomly. Like we had a guy who knew people who had

00:56:27.160 businesses, he had the connections. So it made sense for us to fall in with him. We didn't just

00:56:32.080 show up. Like, you don't want to do that. You need to have a reason to be there outside of just

00:56:37.340 wanting to do good. Like, I think there should be some more objective reason for that. You know,

00:56:43.060 and having those connections with people, I think is a big deal, but I think we're going to see a lot

00:56:47.600 more of that. I think we're going to see a lot more people after this trial going, you know what,

00:56:52.160 we can do this and we should do this potentially as things kind of ratchet up and get a little more

00:56:57.620 wild. So, uh, well, you said something else too. And I think it was important. You kind of,

00:57:02.280 you kind of said it as a throwaway, but you, it sounds like you communicated with law enforcement

00:57:05.980 as well. So this wasn't a surprise. They didn't consider you an enemy or look at you as a threat.

00:57:10.880 It was very well communicated from what I, what I'm hearing and they were receptive and open to it as

00:57:16.080 well. Yeah. In most cases, law enforcement, if this, if this sort of activity, if this sort of

00:57:22.360 peaceful activity is going on law enforcement in most places, I would say will welcome a professional

00:57:29.520 organization of people who have a clear objective. Hey, our friends own this business. We are going to

00:57:38.220 be at this business. We are armed. We have radios. We can, if you want to come talk to us whenever we're

00:57:43.260 available, if you need us for anything, we're available, but we are going to be doing this

00:57:46.440 thing, which is fully legal. Um, most law enforcement are going to respect that and like

00:57:51.860 that because the more deterrence you can have or the more presence you can have in an area, uh, quite

00:57:57.520 often, uh, the better. So, um, there's a couple of States where, you know, some cities where you

00:58:03.080 probably, you know, if I showed up with 10 dudes and we were all in kit that cops would probably not

00:58:08.180 like it, but I think in most places in America, if it's done professionally, again, it all comes

00:58:13.840 down to professionally. If you, as the spokesperson go and say, here's what's going on, here's what

00:58:18.900 we're doing. Here's our objective. Here's, you know, what we are and aren't going to do. I mean, that's

00:58:24.540 going to sound super squared away than just, you know, showing up in camo in an urban situation, which

00:58:31.220 doesn't look very professional. And, uh, then, you know, not having communications radios, you know, it

00:58:37.200 just, it doesn't look good and it communicates something completely different than what you're

00:58:40.400 trying to do. Yeah. Great point. I like that. You're talking about the, the, I don't even know

00:58:45.340 how you'd, you'd say it as much as just appearance, you know, what are the optics of it? Right. And how,

00:58:50.560 how crucial that is, because I, I don't, I actually see this in the hunting community. Are you a hunter?

00:58:56.340 I like hunting. I like hunting pigs from helicopters. That's a lot of fun. That's, that's cool. I would

00:59:02.420 definitely do super fun. So I look at it in the hunting community and I'll see what people will post.

00:59:07.200 I'm like, Oh, like, I know what your intent was. I know that you're probably a good person,

00:59:12.380 that you're excited that you harvested an animal and you're going to bring it home. I get all that,

00:59:18.160 but like, you really shouldn't ought to consider how the general population is going to view that,

00:59:25.900 that action or that picture or those words before you just go posting stuff like that. It's,

00:59:31.760 yeah, you know, you could say it's a shame, but it's really not. It's as old as man himself.

00:59:36.680 The way that we present ourselves is sending a message about who we are and what our intent

00:59:42.280 is. And people are going to judge that whether you like it or not. It's true. And like, this is a

00:59:46.840 perfect example. The last thing I'd want to do is show up downtown Nashville to protect that fill in

00:59:53.360 the blank, some sort of store. And all of us are wearing Punisher skulls and we're all wearing all

00:59:58.620 black and are, we all have AK 47s, you know, Kalashnikov rifles, which in culture and popular media are

01:00:05.340 the bad guy gun. Right. Um, not the best optics. Um, uh, if we show up wearing jeans, you know,

01:00:11.420 American like civilian citizen clothing or undercover law enforcement clothing. And we have Ranger green

01:00:16.640 plate carriers with big American flags on the front of them that communicates a very different image to

01:00:24.020 the population than Punisher stuff, AKs, uh, you know, all black clothing, you know? Um, and that's a big

01:00:33.240 deal. People don't put enough stock into that, but, and I talk about it a lot because, and especially in

01:00:39.540 the gun community, anything you do as a gun owner is going to affect, uh, you know, how, how people

01:00:46.960 around you see all gun owners, like you are an influencer, a brand ambassador to the entire

01:00:52.820 community with your actions and how it's going to influence legislation. It's going to influence

01:00:57.960 gun rights, like all of this stuff that you say you want to protect and you're painting it in a bad

01:01:02.440 light. It's not a, it's not a productive thing. Yeah. Like a couple of people who weren't the most

01:01:07.320 professional are the reason why I'm not supposed to carry a gun at Chipotle. Now, do I still carry a

01:01:11.560 gun in Chipotle? Absolutely. I do. But we, a couple of people when open carried as is their right,

01:01:16.640 but in a very, uh, uh, not professional manner. And because of that Chipotle, like I guarantee if,

01:01:23.420 if they had walked in and looked like, you know, if they had like, for example,

01:01:27.320 looked like undercover law enforcement or just looked, you know, nice, nobody would have said

01:01:32.240 a word. They would have just been like, you know what? They're meant to be here. They walked in with

01:01:35.600 purpose. They've got, you know, professional equipment. Um, they're probably, you know, such and

01:01:42.300 such official organization. I'm not going to make a fuss about it, but because it was

01:01:46.400 obvious to tell they weren't that it created a stink. Chipotle had to then say, yeah, no more

01:01:51.800 guns in any of our establishments. So yeah, you can per your appearance and your actions,

01:01:57.040 you can affect something for everyone, which I highly doubt gun owners are looking at that

01:02:01.780 sign when they walk in, but that's one clear example of a couple guys who didn't have the most,

01:02:06.800 uh, uh, I want to say, um, maybe the best judgment in terms of that concept,

01:02:12.360 uh, ruining it for the rest of us as it were, but not really. Well, and there's also, yeah,

01:02:18.020 ruining it as far as look, there's also a problem with what I, what I would call LARPing,

01:02:23.840 you know, live action role play where you have these guys, you think they're bad-asses or,

01:02:28.760 you know, they want to project that they're bad-asses. They have no training. They have no

01:02:32.700 education. They, they have no skillset whatsoever. And they open carry because they want to look like

01:02:38.260 a bad-ass or they want attention. That's another reason they would do it. And it's not real. Like

01:02:43.160 you're not really, yes, maybe you're a gun owner, but you're not really what I think more of us ought

01:02:51.220 to be, or at least strive to be when it comes to responsible gun ownership. Yep. A fun example

01:02:57.440 that I have is so night vision, I kind of alluded to it earlier is the status symbol of course equipment

01:03:02.560 nowadays. Uh, have you used, have you used night vision much or like I used a little bit when I was in

01:03:07.620 the military, but that's been 15 years. So not, not, not at all. That would have been like a gen

01:03:13.220 two PBS 14 or seven or something. Yes. Yes. Something like that. Yeah. All green and I don't

01:03:18.660 even remember. Yeah. Yeah. That's what it was. I had to drive with it on and I could barely even see

01:03:23.500 anything. I almost ran into a couple of trees. So it wasn't what I'm sure it is today, but I'm in

01:03:28.980 ignorance on this one. No, no, that's fine. So, um, right now on social media, when people,

01:03:34.740 this is what people do, they go on by night vision, they immediately post photos of it, which

01:03:38.560 you got equipment. You're proud of it. You know, it costs $10,000, whatever. Right. I get it. I

01:03:43.900 fully respect. That's awesome. But here's the problem that I have. They then go and film these

01:03:49.380 really slow-mo, cool guy walking around looking through night vision at things. And I'm like,

01:03:57.000 okay, can I see some skill or like, can I see you all like shoot or run or, or hike or

01:04:04.720 some like, or drive with them or something like, can I see something that wouldn't get

01:04:08.660 you other people killed? Yeah. Just posting constant slow-mo looking through your night

01:04:14.840 vision. Like anyone can do that. I could put my night vision on my wife and like, she could

01:04:19.320 do that. And I put some, you know, trap Lord music to it. And then it's super cool and gooning

01:04:24.960 and all that. And it's, it's like, no, let's, let's show some competence and some skill.

01:04:30.060 Let's set an example to the new gun owners who, you know, they want to open carry a pistol,

01:04:35.060 but they don't know exactly why. And they don't know what that actually means. Like

01:04:37.940 let's actually show people what you can do, uh, you know, with this equipment, which is why we have a

01:04:44.080 policy, uh, sort of an unspoken policy here in the company that if we photograph a loadout of,

01:04:50.480 of equipment, you know, plate carrier helmet, you know, goggles, you know, whatever, uh, we have to

01:04:55.320 demonstrate shooting with that loadout or, or, or some skillset with that loadout. Cause I could

01:05:01.900 go into the arm, not just a bad-ass picture. Exactly. We have an armory cause I, am I a model?

01:05:07.380 Yes. I model our product all the time. Don't want to be a model. No, I don't. So every single time I

01:05:11.160 like kid up with stuff, it is to shoot, do an activity, um, you know, run a bunch or something

01:05:19.020 that isn't just dress up. And I think that's something a lot of folks aren't doing. Cause

01:05:26.080 it's hard. I mean, going out and, you know, running one kilometer, coming back and shooting,

01:05:30.840 like that's not fun. It's not easy when you're wearing armor, backpack and nods and stuff, but,

01:05:36.740 um, that's the stuff that new gun owners, especially need to see to kind of set that

01:05:42.720 standard of, Oh, if I own an air 15, uh, there's some things I need to be able to do with this.

01:05:49.460 I need to be able to move safely. I need to be able to shoot, you know, at 50 meters at a, you know,

01:05:54.880 a minimum as far as a distance goes. And I'm not seeing a lot of companies or people being willing

01:06:02.520 to demonstrate competence, uh, even on YouTube, these popular gun YouTubers, they'll shoot at a

01:06:08.440 bench. They'll shoot 20 rounds, then a hundred, 200 rounds through a gun. They'll do a review.

01:06:12.040 And I'm like, can I see some shoot? Like, can I see some level of competence? You don't have to

01:06:17.100 be good. I'm not expecting you to be an Olympic shooter, but can you just demonstrate some basic

01:06:21.660 drills of actually using that firearm the way it's intended for these 3 million people that are

01:06:27.840 showing up to watch this video? And the reason they don't is it's hard. It's it's work. It's right.

01:06:32.640 It's not part of their brand or whatever. And so my big thing is, uh, I, I really hope that our

01:06:37.940 company can encourage, uh, people, other influencers or ambassadors, companies, whatever,

01:06:43.260 it doesn't matter to be demonstrating competence to new gun owners and current gun owners of this

01:06:48.320 is, these are the expectations you should have for this weapon. You know, you should be able to draw

01:06:51.940 from concealment and under a second and a half, not five seconds, but like a second and a half,

01:06:57.320 this is us doing it. We can all do it. You should be able to do it too. This is what it takes to get

01:07:01.340 there. Off you go. And we'll see you in six months and you'll be able to do it. So, and I just don't

01:07:07.200 see a lot of that. And that's probably the most, uh, maybe, maybe not. Yeah. Concerning, but also

01:07:12.760 kind of, uh, discouraging, I guess is, uh, people not pursuing competence, not pursuing, you know,

01:07:20.440 setting an example for competence. They just want to talk about gear or guns or, or coolness or not

01:07:28.160 even talk, but look, look cool. Let's like that old adage, you know, you, you, the training is

01:07:32.860 more important than the equipment. You know, if you had to choose one, you should always choose

01:07:38.460 the competency. You should always choose the skillset. And that's not to say that the tools

01:07:43.500 aren't important. They are absolutely foundation is the skillset, the training, and then the tools

01:07:48.540 to follow, to match it. Yeah. And I, and I think things are getting better. I mean, even since,

01:07:52.720 uh, there's a couple of YouTubers I've even seen, um, again, it's only a couple of really who,

01:07:57.060 after we started, you know, pushing, cause that's exactly what we say at the end of every video.

01:08:01.000 I say, if you suck, you suck. Uh, that's kind of my, my, my phrase, um, the training, you know,

01:08:05.660 this gun or this night vision, it really doesn't matter. You know, if I give it to a monkey, like

01:08:10.300 it's not going to make him better. Like I have to actually get out there and train and do stuff.

01:08:13.620 And I've seen a couple of YouTubers kind of shift gears into that, you know, concept at the end of

01:08:18.240 every video, you know, really hammering people with that. And, um, I think that's great,

01:08:22.300 but I think that we still have a ways to go as far as a new gun owner, buying a gun and immediately

01:08:29.220 upon buying it, being told at the, at the, you know, desk or at the FFL or whatever, you know,

01:08:35.160 or even just, you know, guys, they're talking about, you know, shooting standards being like,

01:08:38.940 Oh yeah, you should be able to shoot like five rounds at 50 yards and under five seconds from

01:08:43.520 standing. Like, don't just shoot it from a bench. Like you should be able to, you know, find your site

01:08:48.540 picture pretty fast and be able to reload the gun under stress. And it's like, Oh, okay, well I

01:08:53.020 should, you know, actually think about that. So, um, so it is getting better, but I do think

01:08:58.220 we're, we're a ways away from that being more sort of commonplace and just understood that you have to

01:09:04.800 have competence behind this item, you know, before you, you know, start running around and thinking

01:09:10.060 you're awesome or, you know, this Rambo. Yeah. Be awesome versus thinking you're awesome or trying to

01:09:17.300 look awesome. Yeah. You're not wrong. Brother. I appreciate it, man. You, uh, you obviously have

01:09:21.480 a lot of insight to share. We went a lot of different directions that first half of the

01:09:24.500 conversation where it's really focused on business. I didn't expect it to go there, but I'm really glad

01:09:28.980 that it did because I know there's a lot of guys who will be inspired by that. You know,

01:09:33.800 they have their own things or wanting to start in their own things that they want to do. And then to see

01:09:37.240 you take it over a period of several years to 80 employees, to reaching millions, quite literally of

01:09:43.420 people. That's pretty powerful, man. So I really appreciate you. We're going to share all this.

01:09:48.700 I'm going to make sure I introduce you as a model. That's really important. It sounds like to you,

01:09:53.000 right. Um, and, uh, professional Instagram model. Yeah, that's right. Influencer. I think

01:09:59.660 is what you said. You wanted it. No, man, I'm excited to get it out to the guys. I appreciate you

01:10:06.200 joining. Uh, where do we connect with you? What's the best place to go to learn more about

01:10:10.140 your products, your training, your Instagram, all that kind of stuff.

01:10:14.040 So our main website is t-rex-arms.com. Just like it sounds. Um, I am pretty active on

01:10:20.040 Instagram. So I am an influencer. I am very active on, yeah, is on Instagram. That's Lucas,

01:10:26.980 uh, T-rex arms. And, uh, that's where you get, I don't want to say unfiltered or unhinged, but

01:10:33.020 you get, uh, uh, more of my personal observations on various things. Uh, and actually where I'm,

01:10:38.560 uh, where I'm most accessible, this is kind of funny is, uh, is actually on Twitch. Uh, I,

01:10:44.260 I use the streaming service there, uh, for a bunch of different things, but, uh, I, I, I talk,

01:10:50.020 I go a lot more in depth on business stuff there and, uh, personal development stuff and just other

01:10:55.520 things, politics. It doesn't matter what they haven't kicked me off yet until they kicked me

01:10:58.940 off. I'm, I'm going to keep being unhinged. Um, don't, uh, don't test it. Don't tempt him,

01:11:03.460 man. Cause that is coming. I'm sure it's coming. Oh, it is. Uh, but you can find me on there

01:11:08.260 at, uh, aim Botkin. So it's a play on my, it's my gamer name. It's a play on my last name,

01:11:13.400 but, um, yeah, Instagram is a big one. And then our YouTube's T-Rex arms. If you Google us,

01:11:18.200 it stuff will come up and you'll get all the Redditors who hate me and all the groups that

01:11:22.820 hate us. All the good stuff, all the entertaining stuff. Yeah. You can, if you want to, you know,

01:11:27.600 read some weird stuff for like four hours or more, um, Reddit's a great place to go.

01:11:32.480 Guys, don't do that. Just go straight to the source, be efficient with your time,

01:11:38.080 get the training, learn what you need to learn, and then get on with the rest of your life.

01:11:42.340 That's a better way to do it. Lucas, I appreciate you, brother. Thanks for joining me on the podcast

01:11:46.120 today, man. Yeah, man. Thanks so much. I appreciate it. All right, you guys, there's my conversation

01:11:51.400 with Lucas Bakken. Hope you enjoyed it. Like I said, this conversation early on took a very, uh,

01:11:56.200 interesting turn. Uh, but I, but I was really intrigued because as I try to build my own

01:12:01.060 business and I know many of you are trying to build your businesses, it's, uh, it's always

01:12:05.360 very enlightening to hear from somebody who's out ahead of you, uh, blazing and the path and the

01:12:11.480 trail for you. Uh, and then who's also is willing to turn around and share some of his insights about

01:12:17.140 what works and what doesn't and how he made it and how he grew his business. And Lucas certainly did

01:12:21.840 that today. And then in addition to that, of course, firearms, and I'm a, I'm a man who enjoys my,

01:12:27.740 my firearms and, uh, also the training that comes with it, which we talked a little bit about in the

01:12:32.980 conversation. So if you're interested in his training, his accessories, what he does, make

01:12:37.720 sure you're following him on Instagram. That's where he most is most active. Uh, and then go check

01:12:42.220 out their site to see what offerings they have as far as products, accessories, training, et cetera.

01:12:48.600 Make sure you connect with him, connect with me, take a screenshot of the conversation right now,

01:12:52.760 real quick, tag, uh, Lucas in it, uh, Lucas T-Rex arms on Instagram, and also tag me. And I'll try

01:12:59.680 to share on, on stories. If you do, uh, it's a good way to promote the visibility. And then last

01:13:03.960 and certainly not least, make sure you join the iron council. Again, we're only going to be open

01:13:07.620 for a few more days. Uh, so make sure you check it out. You can do that at order of man.com slash

01:13:13.440 iron council. All right, guys, we're going to be back tomorrow until then go out there,

01:13:18.920 take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order

01:13:23.600 of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were

01:13:28.240 meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - December 07, 2021

LUCAS BOTKIN ｜ Building a Firearms Empire

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