Order of Man - MADISON CAWTHORN ｜ Uncompromising Values and Service

00:00:00.000 Today, I am joined by an incredible man who just so happens to be the youngest U S congressman.

00:00:04.640 His name is Madison Cawthorn, and he's gained a ton of reputation and attention over the past

00:00:10.080 several months for his powerful speech at the Republican national convention. And more recently

00:00:15.520 his floor speech on second amendment rights today, Congressman Cawthorn and I talk about

00:00:20.880 how he views his disability. He is partially paralyzed from a crash that he was in years ago

00:00:26.560 and how that affects and impacts his masculinity. Uh, what he feels is our civic duty to get

00:00:31.920 involved in politics and important topics, uh, the power of words and using them effectively to

00:00:36.480 create change and hope, uh, the danger of the fatherless home crisis. We're in uncompromising

00:00:41.440 values and so much more. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears,

00:00:47.600 and boldly charge your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every

00:00:53.200 time you are not easily deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life.

00:01:00.000 This is who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and

00:01:05.520 done, you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler

00:01:10.880 and I am the host and the founder of the order of man podcast movement, which is designed to reclaim

00:01:16.800 and restore masculinity in a society that is ever more dismissive of what it means to be a man

00:01:24.480 and how we ought to show up, how we serve other people, how we serve ourselves and how we step

00:01:30.160 into this masculinity. That's all coursing through our veins. So we do that primarily through this

00:01:34.240 podcast. We've got other programs and platforms, which we'll talk more about, but this podcast is

00:01:38.800 designed to have conversations with incredibly successful men, inspiring men, and then distill

00:01:46.320 their experience and information. And hopefully it'll give us some fodder to be able to grow and

00:01:52.080 expand and improve our own lives. And today is no different. We've got Congressman Cawthorne,

00:01:56.560 Madison Cawthorne on the podcast, which I'm very excited to get this one out to you. We had a very

00:02:00.720 powerful conversation. Before I get into that, I do want to make a very quick mention of my friends

00:02:06.480 over at warrior poet society network. These guys are doing absolutely incredible things,

00:02:11.280 primarily in the training tactical space, firearms training, that sort of thing.

00:02:15.760 But they've got a new program out. It's their warrior poet society network, which I am part of.

00:02:21.280 So if you can't get enough of the order of man podcast and you want some more exclusive order of

00:02:25.920 man content, in addition to other shows that they're putting out there, consider it the Netflix for

00:02:32.080 men. That's how I would consider it. The Netflix for men. You can check out the warrior poet society

00:02:37.840 network. And if you want a discount, you will head to order of man.com slash W P S N. Again,

00:02:47.360 that's order of man.com slash W P S N. Check out the network, get yourself a discount by using that

00:02:54.640 code over there when you do. And I believe the code is order code order. Yes, that's correct.

00:02:59.920 So use the code order. Again, that's order of man.com slash W P S N. You can do that after the

00:03:05.680 conversation for now, let's get to it with Madison. He is likely a man that needs no introduction for

00:03:11.120 many of you at 25. He is currently the youngest U S congressman. But as we talk about in this

00:03:16.800 conversation, he does not let that keep him from throwing himself into some of the most important and

00:03:21.600 also polarizing discussions and politics today. What's even more impressive is that in 2014,

00:03:28.560 his life plans came to a halt as he found himself a survivor of a car accident that left him partially

00:03:35.920 paralyzed. So after scrapping his plans to attend the Naval Academy and other plans that he had,

00:03:40.640 he found his way into politics as a way to serve in spite of not being able to join the military,

00:03:47.360 which was his plan. A gentleman in this world was a very, very powerful conversation with a man

00:03:52.560 who had a lot of reasons to quit in life, but instead decided to make the most of his circumstances

00:03:57.040 and also to become a force to be reckoned with. Madison, what's up, man? Thanks for joining me

00:04:03.360 on the podcast today. Ryan, great to be here, brother. Thanks for having me.

00:04:07.200 I know you're busy. You're eating a, I think you were eating a Snickers before we started. Is that

00:04:10.960 basically like lunch for you anymore? Is just whenever you can catch it?

00:04:14.640 You know, it is, it is always just about five minutes in between each little meeting. And so,

00:04:18.800 you know, I had a sandwich, uh, uh, between the 12 and 1230 hour. And then in between you,

00:04:24.000 I was got to have my dessert and had a Snickers. So yeah, you got to reward yourself every now and

00:04:28.240 then. So I get one Snickers a week and that's, uh, it's, it's awesome. Peak of my week.

00:04:33.040 What, uh, what is the pace like as far as, as far as your, your workload? Is it what you expected?

00:04:39.120 Uh, is it different than you expected and how you handled all of that?

00:04:42.880 Well, no. So that's a great question. Um, being here in Congress, I would say it's definitely

00:04:47.360 very much. So you think about, you know, kind of Harry Potter, you know, he gets handed a wand

00:04:53.120 and I mean, that wand can basically do anything. He just doesn't know exactly what it's supposed

00:04:57.200 to do. And that, that's a lot what it's like being in Congress. I mean, this job can be whatever

00:05:01.200 you make it. So there's some Congressman who really, I mean, they, they put in, you know,

00:05:04.720 six hours a day. Um, there's other folks who put in 18 hours a day. So I, I'm definitely

00:05:09.280 leaning much more towards the 18 hours. And so, you know, especially when we're up here in DC,

00:05:13.760 my team and I, we work 24 seven. And so it's, uh, the pace is very, very fast, but you know,

00:05:18.480 that's, that's, that's intentional. We put it that way. I mean, we're serving 730,000 people. So

00:05:23.360 yeah, no excuses. Yeah. And you got a lot to do, especially in the wake of everything that's going

00:05:28.720 on right now with COVID and the border and gun control, which I know is a big issue of yours. And

00:05:34.240 I think I saw something the other day, which by the way, I have to commend you for,

00:05:37.680 I think it's time we have a real serious conversation about daylight savings time.

00:05:42.880 Yes, indeed. No, I think it is. Cause I mean, seriously, this, the, the, the unnecessary changes

00:05:47.760 to our clocks, it was, it was made to conserve energy during the world wars. Um, and you know,

00:05:53.840 that's just completely unnecessary. Now our, our electrical grid is incredible. Our power grid's

00:05:58.000 incredible. We're starting to get very diversified with our energy portfolio. And so I think it says,

00:06:02.860 I mean, personally, I like daylight later in the day. And so, uh, it's, it's kind of cool because

00:06:07.340 if I, if you be in Congress now, if I think of something that I just specifically want to change,

00:06:12.300 I can't, I mean, if I want to try and pass a bill to get an American Autobahn, I can do that.

00:06:16.300 So it's a, it's, it's pretty fun. Yeah. So how do you determine what's worthy of your attention

00:06:22.340 and what isn't? Because I know a lot of people, well, let's look at it this way. Let's take a gun

00:06:28.180 control, for example, which I know for me anyways, is a very serious issue. Uh, second amendment rights

00:06:35.240 need to be protected. That's a serious issue. Daylight savings time. Yeah, I would like it,

00:06:39.820 but it's, let's be honest. It's not as serious as, as gun control legislation. So how do you determine

00:06:45.340 what you should be focusing on and what isn't worthy of your time and attention?

00:06:51.060 Absolutely. So, you know, it's, it's very, um, it, it's a careful line. You have to walk because

00:06:56.060 we have so many different, uh, angles we need to work. And when I first came here, you know,

00:07:01.980 I want to just tackle absolutely everything, but, you know, we're given, we're given a very

00:07:05.860 generous budget, but unfortunately, you know, that, that has its limits. And so, you know, I've got a

00:07:10.120 very large legislative team, people who are just masters at writing these bills, making

00:07:13.960 actually literally writing the laws. Uh, but man, it just takes a lot of time to be able

00:07:19.560 to get one of these bills hammered out. That makes a lot of sense. And so, although, you

00:07:23.800 know, we would love to take every single target we possibly could, cause I mean, this is a very

00:07:26.940 target rich environment with the things that need to be done in this country. Uh, you just

00:07:30.280 can't get everything done. And so, you know, we, we have a deal where if for every single

00:07:35.280 really serious bill we're going to drop, we'll also drop just a one really quick, simple

00:07:39.580 fix. That's just common sense. So, you know, we just dropped a tax credit bill that would

00:07:44.080 help a lot of small businesses in my district who are being just, uh, uh, unrightfully attacked

00:07:48.880 by, you know, the federal government, uh, from, you know, COVID-19 mandates. And so, you

00:07:54.080 know, that bill, you get really into the weeds when you started dealing with taxes. And so

00:07:58.660 that's because I had a lot of heavy lifting to be able to get that. It was called a better

00:08:01.640 business for tomorrow act. Uh, but then in addition to that, you know, the, our common

00:08:05.520 sense bill was, you know, let's, let's have this, the sunshine protection act where we

00:08:09.140 are able to actually make sure that, you know, daylight savings can just go away and

00:08:13.320 we can have sunlight later in the afternoon. And so, you know, for every time we go for

00:08:17.780 just a really easy little bunt, like daylight savings, we also want to tackle something

00:08:22.480 that's very serious that affects every American.

00:08:25.200 Yeah. I think it's important. You know, I've, I've heard you obviously talk about

00:08:27.840 second amendment rights. Um, we've got a, we've got a border crisis regardless of how

00:08:32.380 you want to paint it. I know there's a lot of words that are being thrown

00:08:35.360 around or not being used because of how it might paint it. But I mean, there is a

00:08:39.620 crisis at the border. We know that these are serious issues that need to be

00:08:43.480 addressed. And so I'm, I'm wondering if, or why you decided that political office

00:08:49.240 was the avenue for you. Cause I look at myself personally and I think, you know,

00:08:53.560 at some point, maybe I have some political aspirations, but as of right now, I

00:08:58.100 just, I don't feel like that's the place for me. So I'm wondering why you felt it

00:09:01.560 necessary to throw your hat in the ring and become, you know, one of the, the, the

00:09:05.240 youngest, what is it? The youngest representative in over 200 years. That's,

00:09:09.720 that's quite a feat.

00:09:10.960 Well, you know what, in the guy who beat me, uh, it was unconstitutional and I

00:09:14.720 think he cheated. Uh, his dad unfortunately died in office. Uh, his name is

00:09:18.940 William and he, uh, he was then appointed to his office. And so he wasn't actually

00:09:23.760 elected. So I, I, I always say I'm the youngest elected, but he was there enough.

00:09:27.720 But, um, but no, so, you know, the reason I did want to get involved is, you know,

00:09:32.960 you, we, you were talking about all these major issues that are going on in our

00:09:35.920 country. And I'm sure that you have the exact same feelings than I did. You know,

00:09:39.400 our generation, the millennial generation and Gen Z, I mean, what real issue have we

00:09:44.640 ever faced? We've never had a world war. We've never had to deal with a great

00:09:47.640 depression. You know, uh, in the 1940s and fifties, you know, children, young boys,

00:09:52.960 young men were going to fight in world war II. Then they were being drafted into

00:09:56.660 Vietnam. Then there was, there was, you know, all the Russian terror, all the

00:10:00.180 Russian, uh, scare of scare that was going on when you, they had the, we had the

00:10:04.720 missile crisis. Uh, and so we consider, consider everything that's going on and

00:10:09.480 you look at to, to our generation and you realize we really haven't dealt with

00:10:13.840 anything that major, uh, you know, nine 11 was awful, but for whatever reason,

00:10:19.320 you know, uh, the war, I, I don't, I don't know about how it felt for you, but

00:10:22.520 it felt very distant and far away. Um, the, the, the war, I think it was very

00:10:27.120 different than the Vietnam war and world war II, because it didn't seem like it

00:10:30.120 was a home front battle. And so because of that, you know, I think that we have

00:10:34.000 bred a generation of soft men and that generation has created a lot of problems

00:10:38.860 in our society and our culture. Um, because, you know, I think toxic masculinity is

00:10:42.720 men who refuse to stand up and actually do what is right and take ownership of,

00:10:47.140 of their country and of their actions. And so I want to get involved because I

00:10:51.200 don't want to raise a child in this kind of environment, one that is just going

00:10:54.660 to just completely tell them, Hey, you need to be a victim. Uh, you need to try

00:10:58.660 and be as part of as many victim classes as you can be. So people will feel bad

00:11:02.000 for you. No, I want my child to wake up every single day and want to punch the

00:11:05.220 world in the face and say, look, I'm taking over. I'm taking this thing by the

00:11:09.520 horns. I'm going to make a better world for my family.

00:11:11.440 Yeah. I like that. And I commend you for doing that because most people are all

00:11:16.660 talk. And even to myself, you know, like I, I talk for living. This is what I do

00:11:20.520 for a living. You, you talk and present for living, of course, too, but I commend

00:11:24.480 you for doing something that I can't imagine is very comfortable. In fact, if

00:11:29.160 anything, I imagine it's very uncomfortable. You know, you're putting yourself

00:11:32.840 out there. Half of the people that you represent roughly probably don't like you

00:11:38.020 at all. The other half love you. Right. So that's got to be a very weird and

00:11:42.200 awkward and uncomfortable situation to be in. So I commend you for thrusting

00:11:45.640 yourself into that arena.

00:11:48.100 Well, thanks, bro. And you know, I think that our mainstream media, and I think it's

00:11:51.760 also a, uh, uh, an insult to American culture to call the mainstream. Cause I

00:11:55.940 don't think, uh, what are, what our media reports is anything close to the

00:11:59.280 mainstream of how most people actually feel. Uh, it's just so hyper-partisan. They've

00:12:03.840 created politicians to be this kind of a, a reality star type life where they, they

00:12:09.340 want to know every single detail about you. They want to know what you eat for

00:12:12.080 dinner. What's what, what, how you, uh, you know, what's your favorite, um, what's

00:12:16.420 your favorite movie is. And they want to know every single detail. It adds a sense

00:12:20.040 of celebrity to it. So, you know, it's, it's got the, it's, it's appeal, but also it

00:12:24.680 also makes it to where people start just looking at the person rather than the

00:12:29.140 policy. And because of that, I feel like that's why, um, a lot of people who I think

00:12:34.260 are pushing bad policy are so effective because they're just pulling on people's

00:12:38.100 heartstrings rather than trying to actually make an effective jump at good policy.

00:12:44.340 That's going to help all Americans.

00:12:46.380 Yeah. You know, I think that's true. Um, but I would also suggest that from a conservative

00:12:52.160 perspective, and I tend to be more conservative in my political beliefs and viewpoints that

00:12:57.920 the conservative side of the aisle needs to do a better job at attaching the emotional

00:13:02.920 outcome of the policies that they are implementing and recommending and introducing. Uh, it seems

00:13:11.140 to be a lot of logical, rational type thinking. And I think that's important, but also how do

00:13:17.160 we then tie in the emotional appeal to make this something that people actually see as being

00:13:22.160 good and valuable and, and decent and honorable as well.

00:13:25.860 Oh, well, Ryan, you know, I say often, I say this on the campaign trail a lot. Uh, I feel

00:13:30.560 like the other, the other side of the aisle, they do a really good job of getting people

00:13:34.160 to vote for what feels good. Uh, whereas we try to get people to vote for what actually

00:13:38.660 does good. So, you know, we'll have a very sober minded person get on, get on Fox news

00:13:43.100 and say, well, this bill is going to try to increase our national GDP average by 0.3% at

00:13:49.180 the end of the fiscal year. And I mean, you know, it, that doesn't, that doesn't make

00:13:53.080 somebody wake up and get them excited. Um, I think that what we should be doing is we

00:13:57.020 should be keeping those good policies, but we should be connecting them to dining room

00:14:00.420 politics. You know, how does this affect that young family who's sitting around the dining

00:14:04.900 room table at night with, with their three young children? Uh, and you know, he wants

00:14:09.340 the, the father wants his, uh, wants his children to be able to go to a safe school. He wants

00:14:13.900 them to be able to learn good education out, not being too politicized. He wants to be able

00:14:18.560 to worship in the way he wants, wants to be able to make a good, a good living, wants

00:14:21.780 to be able to grow old with his wife and have an incredible life. Uh, and so I think

00:14:26.100 if we can connect all of these big national issues that are sometimes pretty daggum boring

00:14:30.260 because you have to get so in the weeds with them, but you can connect those to everyday

00:14:33.100 life and show how that actually makes a difference in these, our everyday lives. I think that would

00:14:37.960 just change the whole game. Yeah. I, I completely agree with that. I think you need to appeal

00:14:42.400 to both the rational and emotional side of, of the equation to, to, to enact a lot of

00:14:48.640 these changes. I am curious as, as a young man yourself, do you ever feel, do you ever

00:14:54.100 feel inadequate or that it's just too overwhelming? I mean, you're dealing with institutions that

00:15:00.640 are over 250 years old and some of these politicians seem to have been around as long as that. I'm

00:15:06.840 wondering if you ever feel either inadequate, inferior, or if you're treated as such.

00:15:13.900 Uh, you know what? I always say that if you don't have a lot of letters behind your name,

00:15:17.700 you know, PhD, MD, or whatever they are, you sometimes will have to face institutionalism in

00:15:24.360 whatever aspect of life or whatever venture of life you're in. Uh, and so when I came to, you know,

00:15:29.640 a lot of these people are former state legislators or state senators, or they might've been a Lieutenant

00:15:33.740 governor. Um, and, and so some of them run multimillion dollar companies and these people

00:15:39.520 have incredible resumes and I'm really honored to be around all these August leaders. So I have

00:15:43.360 so many great mentors I can learn from. Um, but obviously as soon as I came here, you know,

00:15:47.660 I'm 25 years old and I'm doing the exact same thing that these people have been trying to do

00:15:51.220 for a lot of their lives. And, you know, they're twice my age. So I, I knew that coming into this,

00:15:56.660 into this chamber, I, people were going to assume that I was either haughty, arrogant, or I would just

00:16:01.660 kind of lucked out on this whole thing. And so I think it coming in and trying to perform, uh,

00:16:08.300 with competence, I think that that speaks louder than any kind of credentials you possibly could

00:16:12.500 have, or any kind of age you could possibly have, because I don't necessarily believe that

00:16:16.160 experience is based on how many years you've been on this earth, but really just what you've done

00:16:19.980 with the years that you've been given. Um, but there is something to say for people who have been

00:16:23.740 here for a long time, because I will say there were, there were, were some discouraging moments

00:16:28.600 where, you know, I'll just, I'll just kind of sit back and say, man, how do you change all this?

00:16:32.600 How do you tackle this entire beast? I mean, you know, you saw Donald Trump, this billionaire who

00:16:39.280 said, I'm going to come in, I'm going to change the whole thing. I'm going to burn the whole place

00:16:41.820 to the ground. He's the president, most powerful person on the planet. Uh, and then, you know,

00:16:45.500 even, even he struggled to be able to take this thing by the horns and lead it in the direction

00:16:50.720 that he wanted to. Uh, and you've seen that with Ronald Reagan's net with a lot of really

00:16:54.420 incredible men who came here, uh, men and women. And so sometimes I, I, I did get discouraged

00:17:00.000 probably for a few days after I'd been here about three weeks. Cause I realized, wow, this place

00:17:04.660 really is, you know, that people value seniority here more so than you can possibly imagine.

00:17:10.040 So, you know, if you've been here 22 years, that, that instantly adds credibility for whatever

00:17:14.180 reason to some people. Um, yeah, that's an interesting thing to, to me is, is, you know,

00:17:20.180 if you have 22 years of, of doing the wrong thing, that that actually gives you some sort of

00:17:24.660 credibility and authority, but if everybody else is doing the wrong thing, then I guess it looks

00:17:28.820 right. No, you're absolutely correct. And so, you know, that, that's a big reason I push the

00:17:33.660 term limits. Uh, it's, it, it sounds like a mammoth of a task and it is, but you know, I genuinely

00:17:39.120 believe that we need to have some kind of congressional term limits because, you know, I've gotten to

00:17:43.300 spend a lot of time going all over the country this past year campaigning. And I have met so many

00:17:47.280 good hearted, brave Americans that I've said, we would never be at a shortage to have good men

00:17:51.780 and women representing us. But just to get back to your question of, do I ever get discouraged of

00:17:56.220 you? Yes, I do. Um, but you know, after I got discouraged, started feeling bad for myself. And then,

00:18:01.200 you know, I kind of snapped out of it a few days later and what the heck am I doing? I knew what this

00:18:05.260 was going to be like. I knew this was going to be a mammoth of a task. Uh, and I'm here to actually

00:18:09.960 make a difference. I'm not going to back down just because things got hard. And, you know, I think

00:18:13.740 that that's a testament to the way my dad raised me. I, I, I commend you for that. Do you ever get

00:18:19.140 concerned with how DC may change you? So my perspective, and I'm just going to speak broadly

00:18:26.940 about politicians, not any politician in particular, just broadly. My perspective is that I think that

00:18:32.980 a lot of politicians get into politics for the right reasons, like you're talking about to serve,

00:18:38.320 to help, to affect change. And then over time they become for lack of a better term institutionalized

00:18:45.320 and they just kind of fit into the mold and they find their little place and they, I don't think

00:18:50.940 they're doing it out of integrity. I just feel like it's just the path of least resistance. And this is

00:18:56.360 just what we do. Do you have concerns that politics will change you or shape you into what currently is

00:19:03.500 rather than where you are right now as someone who's hot and fired up and just ready to go?

00:19:09.440 Well, I think it's a great question. So when I first got here, you know, I was going through all

00:19:13.440 this orientation process and I was wondering, you know, we have all these good hearted Americans

00:19:17.920 who get elected and they come out there. These outsiders are not part of the establishment at all.

00:19:22.060 They come up here and then all of a sudden, you know, a few months, a few years go by. Next thing you

00:19:27.100 know, they're just kind of marching to the drumbeat of whoever their leader is. And, uh, and so I was

00:19:31.640 wondering what caused that. And now my hypothesis, and I wouldn't say this is foolproof, but I think

00:19:36.500 for the majority of the time, this is correct. Most of the people that come here, they're, they're the

00:19:41.140 baddest in their town. They are, they are the best speakers. They're the best, they're, they've got

00:19:45.740 the greatest ideas. They're the most charismatic. They have the most friends. They have the most

00:19:49.520 connections. Um, and from all their districts, you know, they are in their district. They are the

00:19:54.900 big man on campus. And then you come to Washington DC and you're not special anymore because

00:20:00.880 everybody is, and everybody here is incredibly talented. Everybody is incredibly, is brilliantly

00:20:06.500 smart. You know, obviously I think there's a lot of politicians who do a lot of asinine

00:20:10.040 things. Uh, but at the end of the day, the overwhelming majority of people here are well

00:20:14.700 above, um, the, the average ordinary person that you meet on the, on the road. Uh, but the

00:20:20.920 problem is that you get up here and you're used to being this kind of august leader and people

00:20:25.680 always looking to you and things coming easy to you. And then you start having to deal

00:20:29.960 with a lot of other people who are just as talented as you are, who went through just

00:20:33.700 as difficult campaigns as you did, who had the exact same experiences as you. And then

00:20:38.140 you realize that, you know, you, you might start working really, really hard and realize

00:20:41.900 that somebody is just outpacing you rather maybe because it's because of luck. Maybe

00:20:44.900 they just have more talent than you or who knows, maybe it's a combination of both. And

00:20:49.300 then because of that, these people get discouraged and they say, Oh, well, you know what?

00:20:53.340 I guess I'm not actually going to get to change all of this. Um, you know, and so

00:20:57.220 when I got up here, I started asking people, Hey, so, you know, what do you do around here?

00:21:00.680 You know, what committees you on? And, and so many people, they just kind of hang their

00:21:03.980 shoulders. They, I just do whatever leadership tells me. And I mean, I got to tell you like

00:21:07.780 our leadership, Kevin McCarthy and Steve Scalise, these guys are bad-asses. You know,

00:21:11.780 Steve Scalise got shot. He gave him a speech a few days later. I mean, he's, he's incredible.

00:21:16.440 Uh, Kevin McCarthy is a, an incredible speaker and incredible politician. Uh, and he's also

00:21:21.380 a pretty daggum conservative, which is a, which is, is something that I really appreciate

00:21:25.220 in a leader in leadership, but you know, I can understand how a lot of people you come

00:21:28.920 here and you go up against these incredibly formidable men and women, and then you get

00:21:33.180 outplayed on every single front. And then you say, well, you know what? I guess I'm not going

00:21:36.800 to make that big of a difference. I'm just going to, you know, just go along to get along.

00:21:40.280 And then, but then you go back to your district and you're, you're all cool back in your district,

00:21:44.420 but then you come here and, and people are discouraged. And so, you know, that's why I think that

00:21:48.660 we need people who have a lot stronger backbones so that when they do come up here, you know,

00:21:52.740 it's, it's, it's like, I don't care how much adversity I face. I don't care how much failure

00:21:56.180 I face. I don't care how difficult the road is. We're just going to keep pushing until we fix it.

00:22:01.560 I like that. And I, and I can certainly appreciate the idea of the concept of a backbone because it

00:22:06.040 seems like so many politicians are look, I mean, you're putting yourself, not just you,

00:22:10.020 but anybody in DC has put themselves in a very compromising position. Uh, but then it seems like

00:22:15.160 so many waffle and, and flake out on the things they talk about as being important or that their

00:22:20.180 constituents are calling them in and emailing them about saying, this is important to me. So I wish

00:22:25.300 yeah, more of our leaders or elected officials would have, have that backbone. So let me, let me riff

00:22:33.280 on something you said a second ago, you talked about term limits. What, what are your political

00:22:38.260 aspirations? If you're trying to introduce this, not introduce, but support this idea of term limits,

00:22:43.000 do you have political aspirations above and beyond what you're doing now?

00:22:48.060 You know what, if I, if the opportunity comes up for me to serve in a bigger capacity, yeah. You

00:22:52.820 know, as of right now, I don't think Washington DC has changed me to become part of this kind of an

00:22:57.800 establishment pond. So I would, I would love to be able to serve in any capacity that my, my, my

00:23:02.620 constituents needed me to. I'm really just focused on being a congressman right now, but, um,

00:23:06.880 you know, I, I believe that, you know, it, we do, the term limits need to be pretty daggum long

00:23:12.260 because you cannot get a lot done here. The way our founders set up this process, it's not made to

00:23:17.880 be done quickly. And so, you know, I think that, you know, if you spend 12 years in the house, I

00:23:22.400 think that's, that's about enough time. If you can't get something done in 12 years, I probably

00:23:25.760 don't want you representing me anyways. Um, and so I, I think that would be a way to get rid of a lot

00:23:30.840 of this institutionalism where there's people, you know, have been here 30 years or Nancy Pelosi has

00:23:34.900 literally been elected longer than I've been alive. Um, and so it's a, uh, it's an interesting

00:23:40.160 outlook there, but if I could do anything and snap my fingers, I'd want to be governor of North

00:23:44.940 Carolina. You know, it's, it's the state that raised me. And I just think that we've all seen

00:23:49.140 so much of how important our governors are throughout the coronavirus. You know, before I probably couldn't

00:23:53.980 tell you my favorite, if someone said, Hey, who's your favorite governor? I said, I don't even know who

00:23:57.200 my own governor is. Um, but, but now you see him on the news every day. And, and I think the

00:24:02.700 governor's role should become more and more integral, uh, in our nation as well, as we see

00:24:08.780 a lot of dissent dissenting voices among what is happening and what is not happening in the way

00:24:14.040 that this country should be ran. I believe in state sovereignty. So I think that should become more and

00:24:18.840 more important. And I'm also glad that you talked about term limits with a longer term. You said 12

00:24:22.940 years. Uh, I, I used to be a huge proponent of shorter term limits. And I had a conversation with a

00:24:28.520 friend of mine, Sean Parnell, who ran for office in Pennsylvania. You may be familiar with him.

00:24:33.920 Uh, and he, he talked to me about that. He's like, the problem with short-term limits is just what

00:24:38.100 you said. You just can't get anything done. It's just, it just grinds to a halt and you need to be

00:24:44.440 able to understand how the systems and how the dynamic works to be able to get anything pushed

00:24:49.460 through. And you can't just do that in two years. You know, you're absolutely right. And I have met

00:24:53.600 Sean Parnell, a really great guy. I hope he runs for Congress again. I really think he could get it.

00:24:57.980 Um, you know, he just ran in a, in a bad year for, for where he was at. Um, yeah, but you know what?

00:25:04.180 Yeah. That is exactly why I think, you know, him and I are the exact same mind. You do need a good

00:25:08.820 amount of time to go to get stuff done, but you also don't need to be here for 30 years. Um, and so,

00:25:14.500 but in, because really the big reason I don't think you should be here for 30 years is when,

00:25:18.800 when I started thinking of what happens in Washington, DC, people seem so disconnected from normal

00:25:23.780 America. Uh, you know, everything they say is always through the lens of, Hey, will I be able

00:25:29.360 to actually fundraise well off this or will this get my base fired up? And so, you know, I gave a

00:25:34.140 floor speech the other day talking about second amendment rights. And I said, you know, I know

00:25:37.620 here in Washington, DC, you can get sucked in the bubble. And so when you guys say, come and take it,

00:25:42.060 you know, that's, that's a good thing that you can go. The NRA will retweet you and then you'll get a

00:25:46.040 few donors from the NRA and everything's working well. But, you know, but then I said, but in normal

00:25:50.900 America and real America outside of this DC bubble, when we say, come and take it, we damn well mean

00:25:55.720 it. And so it's saying, you know, if you're going to come for our guns, if you're going to come for

00:25:58.780 our right to be able to defend ourselves and our families and what we love, uh, then you've got

00:26:02.840 another thing coming. And so I think that that speaks to the American ethos, just one that needs

00:26:08.020 to be rough and individualistic. Well, and I think what you're doing by stepping into the arena is proving

00:26:13.980 that you aren't just taught. Cause when I hear, again, I'm speaking broadly, uh, a lot of

00:26:19.540 politicians that I listened to even Senate hearings, you know, I listened to these Senate

00:26:23.140 hearings. I'm like, what, why are we doing this? You know, this is just a show. Nothing's going to

00:26:28.080 come from this. It's a bunch of hyperbole. It's a bunch of posturing and, and, and nothing different

00:26:34.520 is going to happen as a result of this hearing or this floor speech, which for example, I heard you

00:26:39.920 give, uh, must've been a week or so ago, maybe a little longer. Um, but when I see somebody who

00:26:46.740 is actually putting themselves out there and sacrificing that to me is an individual who's

00:26:53.640 willing to back up their words and that's what we need more of. No, you're, you're absolutely

00:26:58.280 correct on that. Yeah. So, you know, I, I actually, I have, let me grab something. Uh, so I just

00:27:03.980 ordered this, this is a, a Roman gladius. And so, you know, I, I think the, the, the Roman legions,

00:27:10.180 they were, they're, they're probably my favorite. If I had to study any, any kind of, uh, ancient warfare,

00:27:14.660 they're probably my favorite little, uh, troops to think about. Um, but so yeah, I got this Roman

00:27:18.520 gladius. I've got a few other things on the way. I got a buddy at Blackguard customs. Who's making

00:27:23.220 me a really cool, uh, battle ax with the, you know, it'll be all carved. Well, I got another

00:27:27.880 guy making this Spartan sword. And so I, I want to, I'm going to, I have someone making this little

00:27:32.420 painting and saying, you know, on everything you do, you know, be as ferocious as a Viking,

00:27:35.860 taking advantage of every opportunity you have, you know, be as, be as well thought out and planned

00:27:40.780 and tactical as a Roman, you know, always making sure that you have your supply line set up,

00:27:44.400 making sure that, you know, you, you count the cost of your towel before you start building it.

00:27:48.280 And then, you know, you get the Spartan sword and it says, you know, they don't say, uh, and be as

00:27:52.820 disciplined as a spark. And that, so I'm going to put those things all throughout my office hanging

00:27:57.520 up around here, because I think that really captures kind of the ethos of what it means to,

00:28:02.120 to, to be, you know, a man and really just somebody who is a, somebody who is effective. You know,

00:28:08.180 you read the book, the seven habits, probably affect people, which I highly recommend.

00:28:11.400 Uh, it's an older book, but the, the, the, the truths in it are timeless. Uh, but when you really

00:28:16.880 start thinking about, you know, what it means to be a man, you know, I, I think that it is incumbent

00:28:23.180 upon anybody to get involved inside of their, their way, their way that they possibly can

00:28:28.560 civically, because, you know, I, I did, I was robbed of my opportunity to get to be able to serve

00:28:33.260 my country in the military. They didn't want me to fight as a Marine in a wheelchair, which doesn't

00:28:37.660 make any sense to me because I'm very deadly downhill. And so I was, uh, I saw, I was very

00:28:43.040 upset about that, but, uh, but I could see why first person in my, uh, in my, my family's history

00:28:49.260 since 1777 to not be a Marine. And so for first really generation of males to not do that. And so

00:28:55.860 that, that really weighs heavily on me. Uh, but I found a way that I would be able to serve. And that

00:29:00.200 is by going to Washington DC to be able to support, you know, good policy and really fight this culture

00:29:05.920 battle head on for the next generation. So, you know, I, I think if anybody's listening to this,

00:29:11.280 I encourage you guys to just get in the freaking arena. There's a great quote that says, you know,

00:29:16.160 you'll, you'll hear words from the critics who were sitting in the stands all the time, but

00:29:19.960 you know, blessed is the man who was in the arena.

00:29:23.980 Men real quick, let's take a pause from the conversation. By now you've heard all about our

00:29:28.040 exclusive brotherhood, the iron council. Uh, one thing that you may not know is that each and every

00:29:32.940 month, we focus on a single topic to better equip ourselves as men with the tools and resources we

00:29:38.480 need to thrive. And for the month of April, we're going to be talking all about being prepared

00:29:44.160 in the wake of Texas's power outages and the freeze and the COVID fallout and any number of events that

00:29:51.860 we're bound to face. It's crucial that we, as men get ourselves prepared for whatever life may throw

00:29:58.220 our way. Uh, if this is something that has been on your mind, then I would invite you to join us

00:30:03.240 inside the iron council, as we all work to better equip and inoculate ourselves against tragic and

00:30:09.380 difficult and unfortunate life events. But you'll also gain access to all the resources available,

00:30:15.300 the brotherhood, uh, the framework, the accountability, everything that you need to get the most out of

00:30:20.760 your life. You can do that and join us at order of man.com slash iron council. Again,

00:30:26.560 it's order of man.com slash iron council. You can do that after the show for now. We'll get back to

00:30:31.300 it with Madison. Yeah, I've actually got that, uh, poem, the man in the arena, an excerpt from

00:30:37.460 Theodore Roosevelt speech just right over here on the wall. So yeah, I can attest to the power of that.

00:30:41.980 I look at it every single day. Yeah. So you're hitting on an interesting point that I wanted to

00:30:46.120 discuss because I know that there's a lot of men who listen to this podcast and are tuned into what

00:30:50.380 we're doing, who, uh, might be suffering from a medical condition or an illness or a disability,

00:30:57.380 and they believe that it affects and impacts their masculinity. And I wanted to ask how you feel

00:31:06.520 about your own accident and how that impacted you and your belief of who you were as a man.

00:31:13.420 That's a really, really great question. Um, so I I'll speak real bluntly about, you know,

00:31:18.600 how things went for me. Um, got into my accident and spent several months in the ICU. Then I got

00:31:25.300 out of the ICU, went to a rehab hospital. All in all, I spent a little over a year in the hospital

00:31:29.620 trying to learn, learn how to live again, letting my body all heal. Um, they put a significant amount

00:31:35.160 of titanium all throughout my body. I've got a lot of medical biotech in my body that keeps me,

00:31:39.100 keeps me taking it all kinds of stuff. Um, but I remember, you know, everything was going pretty

00:31:43.460 well for me. And then probably I was, I'd been out of the ICU for about two months. I just started

00:31:49.340 getting up and getting into a wheelchair. Um, and I still was completely under the impression that I

00:31:55.260 was going to get better. I, you know, that, that, you know, by Christmas, I'd be out of there. I was

00:31:59.840 at a full ride scholarship at NC state for, uh, you know, NROTC. You know, I was just really

00:32:05.120 thinking, I was like, man, I, I've got to, my life will get back on track. I'll go back if it's fine.

00:32:08.680 But then I had just gotten up in a wheelchair and I very tactfully, my, my hospital wing had no

00:32:17.100 mirrors in it. I recognized at one point. And so then I went in front of, I went to this bathroom

00:32:22.200 and realized, Oh, there's a mirror in there. I haven't seen myself in five months. And then I

00:32:26.340 rolled in front of it. Now I, before my accident, I was about, I don't know, I fluctuated between 215,

00:32:31.060 220. And I was, you know, six foot two, six foot three. Um, yeah, I had a good presence about me

00:32:37.600 when I would go out in a crowd, but I would notice people would check me out and I felt cool. I felt

00:32:41.720 like I was, I was, I was doing stuff right. Sure. And then I looked into the mirror and brother,

00:32:47.440 I had lost almost 80 pounds. And when I, when I looked in that mirror, my face was sunken. I looked

00:32:53.560 like a skull and I realized just how damaged I was at that moment. Uh, you know, then I started talking

00:33:00.280 to a lot of my doctors and then they, they were, they, they, you know, they, they let that realization

00:33:04.060 come on to you on, uh, just naturally. And then they kind of talked to you about the realities

00:33:08.500 and they're, they're saying, yeah, well, I mean, you know, if you ever want to go hunting

00:33:11.420 again, you can, but everything's going to be different. You're going to have to, you know,

00:33:14.720 bring all these extra equipment, you're going to have to do this. And then, you know, there's

00:33:18.320 all the, the emasculating things of having to be actually taken care of for so long in the

00:33:22.620 hospital. Um, and fortunately I got a great brother and a great father who really did that

00:33:26.780 for me. Uh, they, they, they just did, they took care of everything and it was never a word

00:33:30.780 spoken about it, but I mean, you know, that was a time when I started getting very, very

00:33:36.260 down. And then I, I, I just thought, you know, I can barely speak my, my, uh, my, my diaphragm

00:33:42.780 had ruptured. I had traumatic brain injury. So my, my thinking was even slower. Uh, I had

00:33:47.380 traumatic nerve damage, which is called neuropathy. So I was in all these terrible phantom pains

00:33:52.160 that weren't even real. There was in my head and it was like almost a scar of my legs being

00:33:56.040 on fire going to my brain. Um, and then, you know, I, and then I, I looked like, I looked

00:34:00.880 like I was some kind of druggy. I mean, my, my, my arms were about the size of my wrist

00:34:04.900 all the way up and down. And yeah, I, I felt like I wasn't a man. I felt like I was completely

00:34:10.220 useless. You know, if somebody attacked me at that time, somebody attacked my family,

00:34:13.660 literally they would be in more danger if I was there than if I wasn't. And that was probably

00:34:17.600 the most emasculating thing for me to think about. Um, and so fast forward, I get out of the

00:34:22.320 hospital, things are progressing, but you know what? I, uh, I, I, I'm working for my

00:34:27.120 Congressman at the time. He had been my debate mentor. He had nominated me to go to the Naval

00:34:30.720 Academy. Um, really great guy. And so that, that was giving me some confidence back. Um,

00:34:37.020 and, but I still, I didn't feel like a man. I felt very, uh, felt very weak and I felt very

00:34:43.380 feeble. Um, and then I remember one day at my dad, had a really tough conversation with

00:34:47.780 me and it was basically saying, son, you're going to need to make a decision. Uh, you either

00:34:52.300 need to give up or do you need to move on and in spite of your ritual. And I can't imagine how

00:34:58.200 hard that was for a father to say something like that, saying, basically saying, this is your

00:35:02.660 ultimatum, son, you need to make it. And I just, just imagine how to say that to your child.

00:35:07.520 And, um, then he left the room. I remember I stayed there for a really long time. I ended up

00:35:12.300 making a little T graph of pros and cons of staying alive. Um, ended up deciding to, to,

00:35:20.100 to continue with life. And from that moment on, I said, you know what, I don't care if I'm in a

00:35:24.560 wheelchair, I'm going to be the best I possibly can be. And so then, you know, I started getting

00:35:28.200 back in shape. Um, I started really taking advantage of, of all the opportunities I had

00:35:32.000 at my disposal. Uh, really started to just not saying not, not just sitting back and saying,

00:35:37.080 well, you know, I'm going to heal eventually. I said, Hey, you know what? I'm probably not going

00:35:40.400 to heal. And that's okay. Because I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to work six times harder

00:35:44.520 and be more successful than I even was going to be when I, when I could walk. Um, and then

00:35:49.740 that is really when I, I think I came out of that funk and I, and I, I, now I look at myself

00:35:54.780 and man, you know, I'm about to get married. And so, you know, we're, we're talking about

00:35:59.620 these men, some men who are dealing with some physical issues, uh, dealing with, with physical,

00:36:04.540 uh, deficiencies, whether it's medical or mental, whatever it is. Um, and you know, I'm about

00:36:11.500 to get married. I just want to carry my wife across the threshold. You know, I just want

00:36:16.180 to pick her up and then go run into the waves and take her surfing Hawaii. But, you know,

00:36:20.320 I, I can't do that. And you know, that, that I actually, I, you know, I still allow myself

00:36:24.880 to have feelings every now and then, you know, I put up barriers in my, in my mind and not

00:36:29.580 allow me to get into this little circle of despair where I, you know, I just feel bad for

00:36:33.060 myself at all times. Um, but I also really buckled down on the fact that, you know, I do have

00:36:39.260 to allow myself to cry every now and then, you know, I, I just held my fiance and I just

00:36:42.640 wept the other night and I was just, you know, and I mean, I was, I was telling her, you know,

00:36:46.280 honey, I'm so sorry that, you know, I'm not, I'm not, not all there. I'm not perfect. I'm

00:36:51.060 not everything I want to give you. And then, but you know, she's the best, she's literally

00:36:54.800 the best woman on the planet. Uh, she's a CrossFit superstar. She's a physician's assistant.

00:36:58.920 She's incredible. Um, and she actually decided to make our wedding on the anniversary of our

00:37:04.020 car accident, my car accident. And so it really just changes the history of that day for

00:37:08.580 me. So I'm really excited for that. Yeah. I'm glad you're bringing this up, but I don't,

00:37:12.220 I don't mean to tear up old wounds. I just know that this conversation can serve people. And I'm

00:37:16.040 glad you brought up your fiance because you're right. I don't know her, her other than she's

00:37:20.660 an incredible athlete. She's extremely fit. And I've wondered how the dynamic with you and her

00:37:27.200 worked and how she was supportive and how that may be threatened what you felt, you know, you should

00:37:32.400 be and what that relationship looked like. It's, it's such an important conversation because

00:37:37.200 there's men out there who were dealing with very similar circumstances to you.

00:37:41.540 Yeah. Because, you know, I mean, we, we, as men, we always have this, this, this innate nature where,

00:37:46.420 you know, we, we, we want to be the bad-ass. We want to be able to take care, take care of

00:37:49.640 everything. Our wife never needs to lift her finger or whatever. And, you know, we can talk about

00:37:53.560 normal gender roles or whatever, but you know, I think it's innate in most men and they, they want to

00:37:59.320 take care of their families. Right. And man, a lot of times, you know, I can't carry boxes in my house.

00:38:04.880 You know, I, I can't, I can't get up on a ladder and change a light bulb. And so I got, I got to

00:38:09.100 trust Christina to take care of all that. Um, but man, you know what we, she, she's probably the

00:38:14.160 most, she's much thicker skin than me and she's much more even killed. And so, uh, she's able to

00:38:20.200 handle it a lot better than I am, but I'll tell you, she's a rock star, man. She really is. And

00:38:24.640 she, she does a great job of encouraging me in the things that I can do. And also, you know,

00:38:29.240 just telling me that, Hey, you know what? You're acting like a bitch right now. You're, you're just,

00:38:32.600 you're using a wheelchair as an excuse. Let's go be a man. Yeah. She says that to you. Oh man.

00:38:38.200 She's, she said that to me the other night. I like that. I'm glad you're talking about the

00:38:44.060 importance of having the right people with, with, with your wife saying what you need to hear in

00:38:48.940 the right moment, whether it's getting after you a little bit or easing up. Uh, but then also your

00:38:53.040 father, you know, it sounds like, it sounds to me that your father knew, even though he had to give

00:38:57.840 you a difficult ultimatum or at least present that to you, that he knew by saying that with

00:39:04.180 your personality and your relationship with him, that you would choose the right path. Would you

00:39:08.800 agree? Yeah, I absolutely believe that is the reason that, um, that my dad did decide to do that.

00:39:15.580 And, you know, I think that's something that's so important that I think we oftentimes miss out on.

00:39:20.420 Uh, I think it's played now in our culture, how much we need community as men. Uh, you know,

00:39:25.560 I feel like we need to have a network of other, other people that are like-minded. I mean, you,

00:39:30.420 you, people can say, Oh yeah, well, that guy's a real alpha male. That guy's this, or, you know,

00:39:34.520 they can try and put you in a box, but there is no doubt that there are a certain subsect of people

00:39:39.680 who think the exact same way that they have the exact same standard of themselves. They hold

00:39:45.320 themselves to the absolute highest standard. And so, you know, my, I've got a buddy who owns a steel

00:39:49.320 company. I got another buddy who owns a paving company. I'm a politician. And, but we all really

00:39:54.180 hold ourselves to the highest level of standard we possibly can. And having that network of guys

00:39:59.700 and brothers, I mean, I, I even, I kind of refer to my dad now more as a brother than a dad,

00:40:03.980 because we're just so close. Um, but having those guys too, who can sit there and, you know,

00:40:09.800 they can cry with you if they need to. Um, but they can also, they can also, you know,

00:40:14.000 kind of push you up against the wall and say, Hey man, it's, it, you got, you got to,

00:40:17.780 you got to take this by the horns and no one's going to be able to do this for you. You got to do it on

00:40:20.640 your own. That's something that's so important. So yeah, encouragement.

00:40:23.920 I would give to everyone because I, I know before my accident, I didn't feel like I knew

00:40:27.960 anybody. Uh, it's made me get a lot closer to God because, you know, I, I, I feel like I really

00:40:32.900 need him now. And I realized that I I'm pretty feeble on my own. Um, but also we're built for

00:40:38.740 human for a community, I believe as men. And so I would encourage everybody. You might be a bad

00:40:44.380 ass right now, but you don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. You could be in a car accident

00:40:48.260 wind up in the ICU, just like me in a wheelchair. And if you don't have a group of brothers

00:40:51.920 would be around you right then, your life's going to be really, really hard. And so it's,

00:40:56.380 uh, I think that's, that's critically important to have that, that community.

00:40:59.600 Yeah. And thank you for talking about the idea of humility as well, whether it's humble before

00:41:03.900 God or somebody who might be listening, who doesn't believe in God and just being humble

00:41:07.900 in general, man, it's, uh, look, here's how I look at it. And I think you would attest to

00:41:13.580 this based on your life experiences. You're either going to be humble or you're going to get

00:41:17.400 humbled. Those are the only two options. So if you can get out ahead of it and just

00:41:22.800 stay humble, it's not to say that you aren't going to deal with hardships. Obviously. I

00:41:26.840 just think it's more manageable if you can stay humble as opposed to waiting to be humbled.

00:41:32.320 You are absolutely correct. I mean, I would say that humility is probably, was probably,

00:41:37.380 and you're probably in a lot of ways still is, but it was, it's my, my biggest struggle

00:41:41.820 with my personal development, um, specifically before the accident. And I think the fact that

00:41:47.200 I was so arrogant and haughty, it made my accident so much harder because, you know, I, I didn't want

00:41:52.920 to have to accept help or need somebody to, to, to be there for me. And so it's a, you need to have

00:41:59.360 a mindset that you're the baddest man walking into whatever aspect of life you are at the moment so

00:42:05.760 that you, you, you're not afraid to step into the fray and take, you know, take on whatever you need

00:42:10.460 to, whether that's, that's in business, whether that's in a life-saving event, whether that's on a

00:42:14.060 football field, whatever it is, but you also need to have the humility to know that you can't do

00:42:18.920 everything on your own. And so I, that, that's a hard dichotomy to walk, but you know, I hear this

00:42:24.060 term a lot. Uh, I've got a really hard time with a lot of cultural Christians. Uh, and I say cultural

00:42:30.620 Christians because there's a lot of cultural Christianity that I just, that I think is,

00:42:33.980 is not really based in the Bible and stuff. And it's, uh, people take this, this idea of meekness,

00:42:39.440 you know, the, the Bible calls us to be meek. Um, they kind of, they kind of skew it to almost

00:42:44.980 mean weakness. We cowardly, pathetic. Yes, exactly. You're just kind of, Oh yeah, I don't

00:42:49.980 want to offend anybody. I'm sorry if I'm, if I'm getting in your way. You know, I was raised by a

00:42:54.700 dad who said, you know, no meekness means you have perfect power under perfect control. And you know,

00:42:59.300 everyone always wants to talk about how Jesus turned the other cheek, but Jesus also walked into the

00:43:03.260 temple, flipped a bunch of fricking tables, pulled out a bullwhip and started beating people with it.

00:43:07.340 And I feel like you really need to be able to embody both of those, both of those aspects to,

00:43:12.560 to be a real man. That's a good point. You know, there's a time and a place for everything. There's

00:43:17.120 a time for humility and, and, and even just, just being, being reserved or quiet, but then there's

00:43:22.920 a time for, you know, to speak up, you know, I've heard you, I've heard you do it. I, I, I watched you

00:43:26.920 do it at the, uh, the national convention where you spoke up about what you believe. And then you

00:43:31.780 literally stood up. Um, I saw it a week or two ago when you gave that, that, uh, presentation on the

00:43:37.020 second amendment on the house floor where you made a stand and you stood up. So I can certainly

00:43:41.020 appreciate what you're saying. I want to go back to what we were talking about earlier. We glossed

00:43:45.060 over some things that were important to me. Uh, you talked about in DC, how, uh, you may not have

00:43:51.440 as much credibility or respect or authority if you don't have a bunch of letters behind your name

00:43:55.120 now. So did, so did you, you went to college? Do you, do you, right? Do you have a degree? I can't

00:44:02.220 remember. No, I mean, I went to college for one year and I dropped out. That's right. That's what

00:44:06.100 I thought. So how do people view that? Well, again, it comes down to competence. Um, and so

00:44:13.740 obviously there, there's some things that have to be overcome. And so I literally tried to get onto

00:44:18.660 the education and labor committee, which deals with higher education, K through 12, pre preschool,

00:44:24.720 everything. And, you know, I had so many people that were like, you want to be on the education

00:44:28.600 committee. Everyone here has got a PhD or they've got all these things. And then I, and, and, you

00:44:33.580 know, I said, yes, I absolutely want to be. And I had to sit there and really fight for my, my right

00:44:38.280 to be able to be on this committee because I genuinely believe that, you know, we continue to,

00:44:42.480 we, I think the metric, a lot of American parents view success through is, did I get my child to a

00:44:47.800 four-year degree university? And if I did that, then I'm successful. I think that has robbed our

00:44:53.360 country of a lot of really great talent because people think that they either need to be a doctor or a

00:44:57.560 lawyer to be successful. Whereas I know a lot of plumbers and electricians who are making a whole

00:45:02.100 lot of money than all my friends who are in law school right now. And their standard of living is

00:45:06.340 probably significantly better as well. Exactly. Not just from a financial standpoint, but being

00:45:11.120 available for their family and hobbies and activities and whatnot. You are absolutely correct.

00:45:15.040 And they're not crushed by all this, all this immense debt. And so, you know, I, I've got a line

00:45:19.080 I say pretty often, but I don't think that our country is better served by getting more people

00:45:23.940 with four-year degrees in Egyptology than it is by sending people to get an education and

00:45:28.480 a trade skill. And now this is by no means to knock on higher education. I, I, I, I like to

00:45:34.300 surround myself with people who are smarter than me, all my staff. I'm the dumbest person in the room

00:45:37.780 whenever I'm with them. And so I've got a lot of people who've got a lot of degrees and letters

00:45:42.320 after their name. My, my, my soon to be wife here in a couple of weeks, she's, she's a physician's

00:45:46.300 assistant. I'm glad she went to do all of her schooling because she has people's lives and death

00:45:50.540 in her hands where she doesn't answer. Um, but you know, I, I don't think that that's necessarily

00:45:54.820 for everybody. And so that's why I wanted to get on the education labor committee. And so the reason

00:45:58.980 that, you know, I think that it's, it's yes, you have to, if you're going to go through life without

00:46:03.940 all the certifications that make people feel important, you're going to have to be able to

00:46:09.020 prove yourself that you are, that you don't need that certification because you have the ability to

00:46:13.720 handle the task. And I think that's, that that's where it's a whole thing. Do you want,

00:46:18.560 do you want other people to say you're competent or do you want to be able to prove you're competent

00:46:22.300 through your own work? Yeah. Good point. And if I understand correctly, you, uh, were homeschooled

00:46:28.540 as well. Is that right? All the way through. Yes, indeed. Yeah. That's interesting. My wife and I

00:46:33.540 just started homeschooling our children, uh, two years ago when we made a move across the country

00:46:37.880 and it's presented as fair share of challenges. No doubt. My daughter is dyslexic. That makes it

00:46:42.960 challenging. We're trying to figure out how to deal with that, but I'll tell you, it's one of the

00:46:46.640 greatest blessings, uh, that we've ever had, uh, in raising our children is to be present and

00:46:51.420 available for their education. And I think that's so critically important because, uh, I feel like

00:46:57.160 our modern education system and, you know, I obviously we have to have some kind of public

00:47:01.060 education system, but I don't think that we should have a federal department of education. If I could

00:47:05.020 do anything, I would abolish the whole department and send it back to the States and allow the States

00:47:09.000 to really take control of this. Um, but you know, the thing that I, I got out of homeschooling,

00:47:13.500 that was so great is, you know, you do not have to be, it's, it's not so standardized. You know,

00:47:19.160 if you ask a fish to go climb a tree, it's going to fail, but it doesn't mean that fish isn't

00:47:23.860 talented. And, you know, your daughter probably learns in a significantly different way than a

00:47:28.780 lot of normal students do. And so whenever you're in a classroom of, you know, 30 students, it's always

00:47:33.960 having to be taught to the lowest common denominator instead of to whatever that child's strengths

00:47:38.240 are. And so I think that homeschooling and private schooling and seeking just different forms of

00:47:43.400 education is a really beneficial thing because everybody's created differently and we all learn

00:47:48.600 in different ways. We all have different skills, but that doesn't mean that you're less, less

00:47:52.420 beneficial than, you know, people who are really good at sitting down and taking tests. I test really,

00:47:57.400 really well, but I also study very poorly. Um, you know, I, I, and so I can get through class and

00:48:03.740 I'll seem like I'm making all the A's in the world. And then I've got a lot of friends who test really

00:48:07.440 poorly. Uh, and they're, they're, they're having a hanging out at sea average, but they know the

00:48:11.320 material significantly better than I do. Um, and so, but you know, my mom recognized that. And so

00:48:16.560 whenever she would test me, it was not just a, Hey, you have to sit down and give a brain dump and

00:48:20.220 then leave. It was, it was a, she gave me a love for learning rather than a love for memorization.

00:48:25.860 I like that concept because I feel like as a society as a whole, we've done a poor job fitting people

00:48:32.160 into these paths that they have to follow. And if they don't follow them, that they're

00:48:36.000 perceived as inferior. I even see it with the differences and distinctions between men and

00:48:41.060 women. You know, I think the, the hardcore feminist movement has done a disservice, for example, to

00:48:47.460 women, because they've convinced millions and millions of women that they have to be men in

00:48:52.940 order to be valuable. And that's the furthest thing from the truth. We're different inherently

00:48:57.680 biologically, emotionally, hormonally, not one or the other is better. We're just different. And we

00:49:04.680 ought to play into those paths a little bit more effectively than maybe we have in the past.

00:49:09.300 You know what? I mean, that, that, that, that's a dicey subject. And I'm sure most, most politicians

00:49:12.980 would shy away from this, but this is something that I think we really need to tackle. So I'm glad

00:49:17.760 to bring this up because I think that there is a concerted effort to really try and get rid of

00:49:21.980 the nuclear family and our country right now. It's by people who want to have the government

00:49:26.300 having more power, because if you get, if you get rid of the nuclear family, people rely more on

00:49:30.160 the government. Um, and so I, can I stop you right there on that? Um, yeah, I need to stop you on

00:49:35.600 that because I, I actually agree with what you're saying, but I'm trying to see it from both sides.

00:49:41.200 Do you being an insider, we'll call you an insider being an insider to what's going on. Do you really

00:49:47.500 feel like that's the case that there's this active and deliberate, uh, strategy to undermine the

00:49:53.900 nuclear family? Or do you think that just happens to be the result of misguided ideology?

00:50:04.420 No, I think there's a, there's an active and deliberate attempt to try and get rid of the

00:50:08.500 nuclear family. Let me unpack that for you a little bit. Um, and so this, we, we might, we might go over

00:50:14.880 our hour mark, but this is, this is too good of a conversation. Um, so I believe that there is an

00:50:22.040 active effort by a lot of people to, to get people more reliant on the government because people are

00:50:28.220 now starting to believe in equity over equality. Uh, and so you may have heard this from a, from a

00:50:34.820 lot of different groups that are, that are kind of on the fringe of the far left. And you know,

00:50:39.020 we, we've got our crazies on the far right too, that are on the fringe that they, they need to be

00:50:42.160 Oh yeah, there's a broad spectrum, a broad spectrum problems on both sides for sure. But, uh, but

00:50:47.900 there's this, this fringe element on the left that started to say, we want equity instead of

00:50:52.780 equality. Now I believe words are extraordinarily important. So when people say they want equality,

00:50:57.900 I'm saying, I want us all to have an even starting line. I don't want your zip code or your race or

00:51:02.960 your religion to determine how successful you are in my country. You know, I want you to be,

00:51:07.540 I want it to be based upon your content of your character. But if you start, then that's believing in

00:51:12.420 equity saying everyone starts from a basic starting line and then where you end up is going to differ

00:51:16.940 depending on, on how much effort and talent you have. You're saying that's a quality just,

00:51:21.260 just, yes, that's a quality, right? Quality. But then when you, when people start preaching

00:51:26.640 that they want equity, that means they don't want an equal starting line. They want an equal

00:51:31.600 finish line. And so they want everybody to have just an even share of the pie. But at the end of

00:51:36.780 the day, that's just equal amounts of poverty rather than, you know, differing amounts of wealth

00:51:40.400 in my opinion. And so I think that the reason they want to get rid of the nuclear family

00:51:46.640 is because these people who are trying to preach that they want equity, that there is a concerted

00:51:52.220 effort, I believe that has, has robbed a lot of the African-American community. I think it's

00:51:56.680 probably the number one plague in our inner cities. And it's for whatever reason, this has happened.

00:52:03.100 We have seen, you know, I've got a dear friend, Burgess Owens, who talks on this very,

00:52:06.800 very well. And I wish he was here to explain it in better detail because he's grown up in this

00:52:11.160 community. But there is the worst epidemic we have going on in our African-American, a lot of

00:52:18.080 our minority communities is fatherless homes. And this, this happens in white communities as well,

00:52:22.940 but it's, it's a higher ratio in African-American communities. And I think that the reason why a lot

00:52:28.780 of people, you see a lot of, a lot of gang violence and a lot of aggression in our inner cities

00:52:35.040 is because there are not a lot of dads inside of homes there. And I think that, you know,

00:52:40.060 I was taught that I'm a hatchet. And my dad gave me a hatchet when I was a young boy. And, you know,

00:52:45.580 I, if you know anything about a hatchet, it's a lot different than an ax because it's got a blade

00:52:49.820 side on one side of the backside is kind of flat, like a hammer. And my dad always taught me, son,

00:52:54.780 you are this hatchet. So every single day you wake up, you can decide to kill and destroy with the

00:52:59.620 blade, or you can decide to flip it over and build and try and make something better.

00:53:04.560 And, and so, but, but basically the whole lesson behind that is you need to be, you need to have

00:53:09.300 self-control. You have incredible abilities as a man. You, you, you have incredible strength. You

00:53:13.880 have incredible agility. You can be a violent person. You can try and rule through violence,

00:53:19.040 or you can try and build something that's good for everybody. And so, you know, I use that analogy

00:53:25.160 a lot whenever I'm talking to young men, it's just that you're a hatchet. And so I think that

00:53:29.720 the, when people want to create equity in an equitable society where everyone has equal amounts

00:53:36.800 of everything, that means that, you know, someone who comes from a stable two parent household,

00:53:41.660 uh, with, with a very, with a very active and engaged father, I genuinely believe that that gives

00:53:49.200 them an advantage in life. And so I think these people who are now trying to push for equity,

00:53:54.020 they're trying to get rid of the nuclear family because it's an unfair advantage that a lot of

00:53:58.440 people have. And I, I, I, so I believe that there is a conservative effort for this. And let me tell

00:54:03.200 you one, one last thing. I, when you see these people in Washington, DC, they don't care what

00:54:08.080 means they have to go through to get to power. There are some people up here. I don't want to get

00:54:12.440 overly political on this. I'm not going to name names, but you know, there are people here who will

00:54:18.000 literally just choose whatever side they think is going to win. And then they actually, they don't

00:54:22.900 actually care about the values. And so they don't actually care that people want equity or equality.

00:54:27.120 They just care how many people want equity, how many people want equality. If it's 51% want equity,

00:54:31.400 I'm taking that one. Cause that's going to give me more political power and people get off on it.

00:54:35.420 I mean, there's a thrill to command here. And, and these people really, this it's a drug that

00:54:40.380 people have, the people sort of worshiping at the altar of power. So yes, I do believe that there

00:54:45.080 is a concerted effort to get rid of the nuclear family.

00:54:47.340 That's good. I'm glad you're bringing that up because as we acknowledge and recognize these

00:54:51.540 things, and, and, you know, I don't think a lot of people are willing to acknowledge that they

00:54:55.080 don't either, they don't want to, or they don't believe it, but we have to acknowledge the threats.

00:54:59.660 And, and what I've heard a lot of people say, I bet you get this a lot too. Fear mongering. Oh,

00:55:03.740 you're fear mongering. Look, it isn't fear mongering to, to point out the potential threats.

00:55:08.980 How can you face an enemy? How can you deal with problems? If you aren't willing to take a good,

00:55:13.880 long, objective look at what's actually happening, that's not fear mongering. That's realistic.

00:55:20.340 No, you're absolutely correct. And I think that's so important is that we, you know, we,

00:55:24.380 we are able to have these real conversations and, you know, so I, there was a guy on Joe Rogan the

00:55:29.180 other day, uh, his name is Michael Malice. Uh, and he was on there and I don't know what they were,

00:55:34.560 what the, what the podcast was about, but they were talking about, you know, different kinds of

00:55:38.360 bodybuilders. And so, you know, you've got the guys who are the heavyweights, you know, most of them do

00:55:41.900 steroids and there's the giant guys, but then there's also the swimsuit guys who just, I have

00:55:46.020 great six pack abs. It looked like Zac Efron from a high school musical. Uh, and, and, you know,

00:55:51.400 but then, so, uh, Michael Malice telling Joe Rogan, he's like, Oh, but yeah, but the reason why they

00:55:56.000 wear board shorts, cause they don't, they don't do legs. They've got really small quads. And then

00:55:59.840 Joe Rogan's like, was like, what? No way. He's like, yeah, they skipped leg day, like Madison

00:56:04.240 Copham. And, and then obviously, you know, I'm in a wheelchair. So it was a low blow on Michael's

00:56:09.540 part. And so obviously a lot of people got really pissed. I had a thousand people send me that,

00:56:13.880 that clip. And, you know, I just sent him back and, you know, Michael is a, uh, he's kind of a

00:56:19.000 smaller guy. So I was like, Hey man, yeah, I might skip leg day, but I guarantee I can beat you arm

00:56:22.840 wrestling. I saw that. Yeah. Well, anyway, so I did a podcast with him and it went fantastic. Uh, and we got

00:56:29.200 to have this real conversation where, you know, he's definitely on a much further away spectrum

00:56:34.640 of politics than I am. Right. You know, but he is somebody who I really respect because he's,

00:56:40.360 he's an honest and honest communist basically. Um, not, not really, but he's, you know, he's an

00:56:45.480 honest far left and I I'm a very honest guy on the far right. And, but we were able to sit down and

00:56:50.120 discuss things and we realized that we agreed on 80% of the issues and we agreed on a lot. We had to

00:56:55.080 have a difficult conversation. So I think what you were just saying, we need to have the

00:56:59.020 ability to sit down and have a real conversation and call out, you know, what's wrong in society,

00:57:03.860 because I think if we do a lot of people actually agree and we're a lot, we're a lot closer together

00:57:08.700 than we are far apart. Well, this is part of the, part of the challenge that I have with even these

00:57:13.380 COVID restrictions is, you know, let's not worry about COVID for sake right now. But a lot of the

00:57:19.960 problem with the restrictions is that we aren't able to congregate. We're not able to get together

00:57:23.500 face to face. Uh, we've been told that, you know, we, we, we can't go to public outings

00:57:28.920 in large groups or go to events or venues or congregate in church. And this is actually

00:57:33.480 where the conversations happen. This is where we actually need to be talking to each other.

00:57:38.160 Even with people, I go to church with people I probably disagree with politically, but we

00:57:42.860 come together over common ground. And then we can talk about some of these other ideas

00:57:46.540 through common and shared interest. And that's where the real change takes place.

00:57:50.800 You are so right. Uh, and, and, you know, if you want to look at it from a really cynical

00:57:57.140 perspective, they can't be the people that, you know, big brother, whoever they are, they

00:58:03.920 can't limit the interactions we have person to person. But if we have to live all of our

00:58:08.820 lives through this screen right here or over social media, we've seen a big tech can censor

00:58:13.580 whatever they want. And, you know, right now it's, it's not so overt. I mean, it's gotten gotten

00:58:18.980 pretty bad, but you know, I, I think that it's a, it could get a lot, lot worse. And so I think

00:58:24.320 that it's so important that we cling to our first amendment, right. Of congregation and being able

00:58:28.060 to speak to one another, because you're absolutely right. When we get together, you know, I, I, I,

00:58:32.300 there's a Democrat who I thought was just a psychopath. Um, and him and I was like, man, I, I, he,

00:58:37.660 I heard him give a speech on the floor. I was like, this guy is just an idiot. We would do not

00:58:41.720 agree on anything. Uh, but then just a few days ago, I was in, I was down in the gym

00:58:46.140 with him and we just were having a normal conversation and he was giving me a spot on

00:58:49.940 a lift and, and then we just had a normal conversation. I was like, well, actually you're

00:58:52.680 not an idiot. You're, you're that I completely understand where you're coming from, completely

00:58:55.900 disagree, but now it all makes sense. And so I feel like, you know, with these COVID

00:59:00.480 restrictions, it is really driving us further apart. And I think that's why we're starting to see

00:59:04.560 so much partisanship, you know, taking place in all aspects of life, because we're not

00:59:08.800 together. We're, we're, we're driven apart and we just live in these echo chambers

00:59:11.620 on either Fox news or MSNBC. That's an interesting image. I'm almost thinking

00:59:16.300 of some sort of meme or cartoon where you and this other individual who do not agree

00:59:20.320 politically are, are spotting each other on lifts and how that, how that actually plays

00:59:24.900 out. Was he, was he a successful lifting partner? I mean, he was, you're still here.

00:59:28.700 So I guess he didn't. Yes, he was, he was very successful. Uh, in actually he was doing

00:59:32.940 225 for reps, which I didn't know Democrats were capable of doing. So I was, I don't know

00:59:38.560 if we want to end it on that one. Cause if we do, man, I can't tell you how many calls

00:59:42.500 and emails. So I appreciate you making my life harder for a little bit as I get the

00:59:45.440 calls and emails and people.

00:59:47.260 You know that it's just a joke. I have found that there are, there are some extraordinarily

00:59:52.800 manly men on both sides of the aisle. And there are people that I genuinely respect.

00:59:57.240 Especially a lot of the old timer congressmen I've met up here, guys who've been here a long

01:00:01.860 time that they, they've, they've seen kind of a lot of the partisanship. They come up here

01:00:05.760 and, but then they realize that we're all here just for the American people. So I'm

01:00:09.020 hoping that this new breed, this new generation of Republicans and Democrats who have come

01:00:12.600 up here as kind of new freshman class, you know, we're very partisanly divided right now,

01:00:16.740 but I hope that we can realize, Hey, the American people genuinely need help right now. And we

01:00:21.940 really need to work together to get that done. And I think that that is, that is the calling

01:00:25.580 on every man and woman in America is to make this place a better, a better country for

01:00:29.480 the next generation.

01:00:31.060 Well, Madison, I appreciate you, man. I know you're a busy guy. You got a ton to do.

01:00:34.340 Uh, you look, I, I commend you. I honor you for stepping into this calling and, and this

01:00:39.280 work when I imagine it just cannot be an easy thing. Uh, it's, it's incredible. It's incredible

01:00:45.240 to see a young man, like actually stepping into what he believes in putting himself out

01:00:50.200 there, making the sacrifices. And I honor you for doing that. And thanks for taking some

01:00:54.060 time to join us on the call today. I got a thousand other notes. We might have to run it

01:00:57.560 back soon because I got a thousand other things I wanted to talk with you about, but we'll call

01:01:01.280 it quits for the time being. All right. Well, Hey, well, in a couple months, let's get one

01:01:05.020 together again. All right, brother, let's do it. Talk soon. All right, brother. Thanks

01:01:08.140 man. Talk to you soon.

01:01:10.760 There you go, gents. My conversation with Congressman Cawthorne. I hope that you enjoyed that one

01:01:16.280 and it gave you a new perspective. There was a lot of questions in there that we had discussed

01:01:20.080 and topics that we had covered that I know are on a lot of your guys' minds. And I hope this

01:01:24.440 gave you a new perspective and a new way to look at things. Uh, Madison Cawthorne's an impressive,

01:01:28.940 impressive individual. Uh, and, uh, I, I was honored to be able to talk with him. Please

01:01:33.660 let me know what you thought about the conversation. Take a screenshot, share it on Instagram, share

01:01:37.520 it on Facebook, let people know, uh, where, where you're listening to this, what you're

01:01:42.160 listening to leave a rating and review, and then shoot me a message and just tell me what

01:01:45.920 you thought about the conversation, good, bad, indifferent, everything. I want to hear the

01:01:49.040 feedback from you guys, because this helps me get a better information out to you stuff

01:01:54.520 that will actually serve you. So connect with Congressman Cawthorne on the socials, connect

01:01:59.840 with me on the socials as well. Leave that rating, leave that review, check out warrior

01:02:04.380 poet society network. I think you're going to like that as well. Uh, we've got a lot of

01:02:08.020 work to do. Clearly we have a lot of work to do, and I'm excited to see this movement continue

01:02:13.280 to grow as it has. Uh, I have high hopes for what we're going to going to do and high expectations

01:02:19.020 for the information I'm going to continue to put out to you guys. So, uh, we'll plan

01:02:22.720 on being back tomorrow for, uh, the ask me anything, but until then guys go out there,

01:02:28.100 take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order

01:02:32.280 of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were

01:02:36.920 meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - March 23, 2021

MADISON CAWTHORN ｜ Uncompromising Values and Service

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