Order of Man

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:05.000 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.460 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.220 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.800 you can call yourself a man. Kip, it's good to see you. I was going to start this conversation

00:00:27.760 by saying instead of Kip, Mr. Grumpy Pants. Well, we'll just say it. Hello, Mr. Grumpy

00:00:33.100 Pants. How are you today? I'm good. Are you?

00:00:40.120 You know what? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe in a little bit of a lull. I don't know. I get in these

00:00:47.800 moods. I think you've, in past episodes, you've called it your entrepreneur PMS.

00:00:54.600 PMS. Exactly what it is, man.

00:00:57.760 I don't know if it's entrepreneurship or fatherhood or just men being a man in general

00:01:02.220 or what it is, but yeah, I'm on this weird cycle. I don't know if it's six weeks. I got to figure out

00:01:07.060 my cycle. Maybe it's six weeks. Maybe it's four weeks. I don't know. Maybe it's like on cycle with

00:01:13.180 my wife. I don't know. Maybe it's like one of those things where you guys start to find the cycle

00:01:16.860 together. I don't know what it is, but it's true. Let me know what you find out. Yeah. Let me know

00:01:23.500 what you find out. I'd be interested in learning more. What did we call it last couple of weeks

00:01:28.440 ago? A little bitch syndrome. It might be that too. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it's,

00:01:32.940 I don't know. I, it's, it, I just, it's a sense of overwhelm. Yeah. And, and just things aren't

00:01:40.880 progressing or I'm not getting things done and it's, it's stacking up. It's that's usually what

00:01:46.560 it is for me. Is it work stuff, family stuff, combination of both? What is it? Everything.

00:01:51.400 Yeah. Combination of both. Yeah. Like I, I could really honestly, and it's in my head,

00:01:57.920 but I could, I could have like a 20 page document of stuff I need to get done. You know, like it's

00:02:06.300 just, it's, it's insane, you know? So it's in the back of your head. Do you, I mean, do you write it

00:02:11.040 out? Do you list it out? Well, the ones I need to plan this week, I write out, but like, you know,

00:02:16.080 but I have like the things on that list are, I need to rearrange those tools in that toolbox.

00:02:21.400 It's getting chaotic. You know what I'm saying? It's, it's that list, you know, but it's not

00:02:26.920 important, but it's like, you know, it's nagging at me. So it's important. You know, all those little

00:02:31.140 things are important. And even if it's seemingly insignificant, they start to stack up and add up.

00:02:35.380 I definitely hear where you're coming from on that. Totally. I, um, so tell me how have I not read

00:02:43.480 four agreements yet? Oh, really? Yeah. Like I, I was running yesterday. I had to get

00:02:51.200 10 miles in and I'm like, I need a book or, you know, I need like, cause the last thing I needed

00:02:56.280 is to think more, you know, I was kind of like, I need to get out of that space. Yeah. And so I

00:03:01.940 read that or listened to that book while I was running and I'm like, this book is awesome. It's

00:03:06.780 so good. Like I really, really like it. Yeah. Yeah. The run was long enough. Yeah, totally.

00:03:14.040 Yeah. Now everyone's doing the calculations. They're like, Oh, Oh, only a 12 minute, 12 minute

00:03:19.040 miles. Exactly. Yeah. That's a good book. Almost done. But yeah, I mean, it was, it was profound.

00:03:27.720 I'm like, it's a good book. Yeah. It's one of my favorites. One thing I would say for what it's worth

00:03:33.520 is I've had to be very careful when I don't need or want to think to put self-development stuff in

00:03:39.840 my earbuds. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned that sometimes where you're kind of like, no,

00:03:44.340 I need to clear my mind. I don't need more stuff. Right. Right. Right. But it is good. It's a

00:03:50.160 powerful book. I can't remember the agreements right off hand. Do you remember what they are?

00:03:54.120 We could look them up while we're. Yeah. I mean, one is honoring your word, which has a deeper root of

00:04:00.440 integrity. I think there's an honor, your word to yourself, but regardless, I was like nerding out

00:04:05.220 on it. I was like, man, I need, I need you to get a paper version of this book so I can just beat it

00:04:09.140 up. But yeah, on your word, don't make assumptions. Don't take a personal. And the last one, do your

00:04:17.400 best. Yep. That. And, and the, uh, the one that you talked about with honor your word, it's actually,

00:04:23.880 I think the correct, I'm looking at it here. The correct verbiage they're using is impeccable with

00:04:28.960 your word, which is impeccable, similar, but I think an important distinction. Well, it mostly

00:04:34.260 when he defines or breaks down the word impeccable and you're like, Oh, that's pretty profound. Yeah.

00:04:40.480 Right. Right. It was good. It was good. I, it was a little, I think some people would be thrown off

00:04:45.960 by the like black magic and white magic. And he, you know what I'm saying? Like his, the words that

00:04:52.800 he chose to use to describe things. I could, I could see it. Maybe it would throw people off a

00:04:57.520 little bit, but, um, man, it was profound, profound wisdom. I really enjoyed it. And it was kind of what

00:05:04.060 I needed to, because I just got in a fight with my wife right before I went for that run.

00:05:08.760 Ah, there we go. Here we go. Now we're getting to the root of assumptions. Yeah. I'm like, Oh,

00:05:14.040 all these assumptions honor my word, doing my best. I'm like, Oh my dear Lord, I need to get home and

00:05:19.460 apologize. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was good. It was good. Yeah. We need to do a, like a review of

00:05:26.840 that book. I know a bunch of guys have read it. So yeah, that's definitely higher on the list. And one

00:05:31.200 thing that I haven't talked a whole lot about, but yeah, it's, it's a great book. Yeah. Cool, man.

00:05:36.660 All right, brother. Well, you'll be the grumpy one today. I'll be the cheery, happy,

00:05:41.780 empathetic one. We'll switch the roles here a little bit and we'll get after some of these

00:05:44.800 questions. Am I usually the, I I'm usually the happy one. You're usually the happy, fluffy

00:05:49.980 bullshit guy. And I just cut through all that crap. Superficial guy. Yeah. Yeah. Got it.

00:05:57.360 No, not superficial. You're just nevermind. Nevermind. Yeah. You make a good combo. So maybe we'll

00:06:03.620 just switch them things up here a little bit. Copy copy. All right. Shall we? Yes. Actually

00:06:11.480 on the superficial thought, I don't want you to feel like you're being. Oh, no, no. You don't

00:06:15.020 have to pander to me because you're afraid. I'm afraid. I'm not afraid of you. I mean, on the

00:06:20.780 match, maybe a little bit, I will, but I do want to make this distinction because I think the guys

00:06:25.980 would agree with me on this. Okay. You're not the, you're not the superficial one. You're the thoughtful

00:06:30.940 one. I'm the guy who's like, what's your problem? Get over your crap. Yeah. And you're way more

00:06:38.500 thoughtful about it. Yeah. But well, and we, we both know the pros and cons of both, right? I mean,

00:06:44.400 sometimes, sometimes it is, it just do the work. That is the answer. Like stop being a little bitch,

00:06:49.900 right? That's easier said than done, kid. Easier said than done. Well, what's the podcast? You know,

00:06:54.660 contact me if we want to overanalyze things and never take action. I'm your guy. Perfect. Good.

00:07:01.580 Well, that's why we do, do let's overthink it together. All right. Let's get to it. Let's get

00:07:05.180 to it. All right. So our, our, our questions from today are from Instagram. You can follow

00:07:10.680 Mr. Mickler on Instagram at Ryan Mickler. That's M I C H L E R. I'm assuming I don't need to spell

00:07:16.640 Ryan for you people. All right. First question of these new age names, they spell them like R Y

00:07:22.460 A R I N or R Y O N. But I'm of the old school where you spell names correctly. You don't add extra

00:07:32.620 Y's and Z's and X's and everything else. You just spell it the correct way. There he goes.

00:07:38.560 All right. Tyler Rivers. If you had to give a young man, let's say 21 and below one piece of advice for

00:07:46.520 when they take that journey of being independent, capable men and leave home to pursue their dreams,

00:07:53.160 what would it be? Go explore the world. Really? I mean, we've talked about this before, Kip. Just

00:08:00.420 go out and explore, see everything, say yes to everything, go on adventures, take some risks,

00:08:06.240 just travel, try new things, whatever you can do to get as many experiences under your belt as

00:08:13.380 possible. Now's the time. Cause I'm telling you, it doesn't get any easier. It's not an excuse not

00:08:17.900 to do it later. You should still be taking risks. You should still be saying yes to some things.

00:08:22.040 There still should be some adventures, but when you're young, it's the freest and easiest and most

00:08:28.620 convenient time in the rest of your life that you will have to do it. So if you have an opportunity to

00:08:34.240 tour the world, if you have an opportunity to try new, something new, like somebody calls you up and

00:08:39.440 says, Hey, let's go skydiving, go skydiving, like just experience it all, put it all under your belt

00:08:46.020 because you're going to draw upon all of those experiences as you get older, because they're

00:08:50.540 going to translate into other facets of your life that are more mature. Maybe you'd call it where you

00:08:55.860 start having a family, uh, dating, dating women, seriously dating women, I should say, uh, having

00:09:02.600 children advancing in your career, you'll draw upon those past experiences. If you're boring,

00:09:08.640 you don't have any experiences. You've never taken any risks. It's pretty much how the rest of your

00:09:13.260 life is probably going to go. So get it taken care of. That's depressing. No, it's not. It's actually,

00:09:19.680 maybe it is. If you've resigned to that, like, I'm just a boring guy, but it doesn't have to be that

00:09:26.740 way. Nobody's telling you, you have to be a boring guy. Nobody's saying that you shouldn't

00:09:30.080 Just the probability is higher. Yeah. Right. Because you've conditioned yourself. You've set

00:09:36.400 the precedent for being that kind of individual. So set a precedent for adventure, risk-taking,

00:09:42.560 new information, new ideas, new experiences. And that is the precedent you're setting for the rest

00:09:47.760 of your life, which will serve you significantly better than the alternative. Would you give the same

00:09:53.320 advice for trying out jobs as part of that experience? Like if you have interests in these certain

00:09:59.900 things, like get in the industry, try it. Like this is the time to just try to figure those kinds of

00:10:05.000 things out at the same time. One of the things that I was really impressed with in the dental

00:10:09.240 community, and there's probably other facets of the medical community who do this. So when I was

00:10:14.000 doing financial planning, I focused heavily on the medical community and more specifically working

00:10:18.780 with dentists. And one of the practices that inspiring dentists have is they go shadow an actual

00:10:27.600 dentist. So they'll go shadow that individual. They'll do work with that individual. They'll see

00:10:32.460 what it's all about and they'll make their decision. Should I go to dental school? Cause you're going to

00:10:35.480 spend two to $500,000 on getting through your, your schooling. So you better make sure that this is

00:10:42.540 actually something you want to do. So the concept of shadowing, I think is a very, a very important

00:10:49.240 practice. And if you have at age 21 or 18, just young, like that, any inkling of interest in

00:10:55.960 something, you probably ought to shadow somebody who's doing it, explore it, see if it's something

00:11:00.800 that you find value in. Don't pin yourself to it. Just explore it with an open mind to see if it is

00:11:04.820 something you enjoy or not. And if it's something you don't enjoy, listen to, I don't care if you call

00:11:11.680 it yourself or God or intuition or positive spirits or evil spirits, whatever you were saying about

00:11:17.520 and, and magic. Yeah. That's, what's funny. Everybody. So, so you and I are both spiritual

00:11:23.160 believe in God. And so I talk with a lot of people who are atheists. They don't believe in God

00:11:27.280 or agnostic. And yet they'll use the same concepts. They'll just call it something different,

00:11:33.480 like the universe or black and white magic or, or I don't muse or whatever, like karma, karma.

00:11:42.080 They'll use the same ideas. They just put a different word to it. So call it whatever you

00:11:47.200 want. I don't care, but listen to it, accept it. And if you have some interest, follow it. If you feel

00:11:55.360 like, Hey, this doesn't feel right. That's probably something that should be listened to. It's not the

00:11:59.300 only thing you should listen to, but the only consideration. But I think we often

00:12:05.600 undervalue our intuition that, and then we make decisions and we're like, well, you know,

00:12:13.160 I shouldn't do that. Or I, I shouldn't get out of this career. Let's take an attorney, for example,

00:12:17.360 because I personally know attorneys who hate, hate being attorneys. I think that's all of them.

00:12:23.180 Yeah. And, and they, they've known it for a very long time and yet they haven't done anything about

00:12:29.660 it. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of the things in that it would set what's it's whatever stuck in my

00:12:36.300 head. Right. Uh, that I really liked about that four agreements is he starts that book off about

00:12:41.760 how we have these social constructs, right? These, these social agreements that we fall into,

00:12:48.620 you know, based upon how we're raised and based upon fear and judgment of others. And, and he

00:12:54.900 really talks about being a pick, uh, what's the word I'm looking for a pickle. I think you were

00:13:00.720 going to say applicable. Is that what you were going for? Well, no, it wasn't that a great,

00:13:05.560 what agreement was it? Well, anyhow, he was talking about like, yeah, but it doesn't, that's not the

00:13:10.480 one. Well, that is the word I was looking for, but it's not that agreement. Anyhow, he was talking

00:13:16.000 about how there's like being true to yourself has a sense of wildness to it. Right. And it's kind of

00:13:23.700 back to what you're saying. It's, it's, it's built into you, these things that you want to do that we

00:13:28.060 don't act upon because of fear or judgments or social constructs. And, and part of find heaven

00:13:34.680 on earth or heaven within yourself is to like, do those things to rise above the fear and actually

00:13:41.520 take action. Right. Yeah. I really liked that. So, so these next three questions are kind of

00:13:48.240 related. Um, they're related, but they're kind of related to this one. So I I'll just read the three

00:13:52.700 really quick because I I've kind of grouped them together here. So hold on one second. I got to make

00:13:58.640 a switch on my internet real quick. Cause I think we're having some, oh no, I think we're good. Okay,

00:14:03.580 cool. Yeah, go ahead. Okay. So see Nielsen, his question. I'm 29. I have no idea what,

00:14:09.520 what I want with my life and my career. I can't figure out my passion in life.

00:14:14.920 Marco Abelas. He says, how can I find my purpose? But following what society said,

00:14:20.980 school degree, job and marriage, I got lucky with the marriage thing, but I don't feel fulfilled.

00:14:26.980 And then Baz T his question, what would you advise someone that doesn't know what his passion is

00:14:32.240 and what he should strive to achieve? Yeah. So the, I extracted three words from those three

00:14:39.140 questions, passion, purpose, and fulfillment. Yeah. And the way that I hear these gentlemen

00:14:44.940 asking these questions is that they're looking at it as some tangible object that at some point,

00:14:51.420 they just trip over or stumble across or find, or somebody reveals it to them or something.

00:14:56.200 Yeah. The reason I think we think this is because of pop culture and specifically the entertainment

00:15:02.940 industry. Hmm. Because if you watch any movie and you look at the hero's journey, for example,

00:15:10.340 yeah, I think it's Joseph Campbell's who originally explained the hero's journey. But if you look at the

00:15:14.360 hero's journey, it's an individual who's struggling to find something or struggling to create something

00:15:19.460 for himself. A mentor is introduced into his life that reveals something about the tangible world and the

00:15:26.540 physical situation he's in, but it's a metaphor for his deeper struggles and desires. And then within a

00:15:33.360 two hour window, the mentor reveals it. He goes through a little bit of hardship and then he finds

00:15:38.040 it. And then he, he, he lives happily ever after in two hours with very little context. So we've begun

00:15:47.320 to believe that, well, I'm 29, I'm 30, I'm 40. I'm this, I'm that. I've, I don't know. I don't know

00:15:54.340 what my passion is. I don't know what my, yeah, well, that's because life isn't like the movies

00:15:58.520 and it isn't some thing that you'll miraculously stumble across at some point or some Gandalf

00:16:05.780 like figure will reveal it to you. It's something that you have to develop and articulate over time.

00:16:11.440 So here's, what's really interesting and fascinating to me is guys will say, Oh, I just don't know my

00:16:17.260 passion or my purpose or I'm not fulfilled. Okay. Well tell me when is the last time you did something

00:16:22.060 new? Tell me when the last time is you took a risk. Tell me the last adventure you went on.

00:16:27.040 Tell me the last time you said yes to something you would normally not say yes to. Tell me anything

00:16:30.880 different about your life today than it has been over the past, let's say decade. Well, you know,

00:16:36.400 nothing because I've got kids and you know, my job requires this and I've got bills to pay. Yeah,

00:16:41.400 exactly. So you're, what you're saying is you want to find your passion and your purpose,

00:16:45.460 but you want to continue to do the same shit that you've been doing for three decades.

00:16:49.120 Like what makes you think zero risk, zero new input, zero new feedback, zero new experiences.

00:16:56.640 It's the, I don't like this quote. It's just overused, but it's the definition of insanity,

00:17:00.680 doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. All right. How do I find my

00:17:04.820 passion? Well, what, when's the last time you took a risk? Well, I can't do that. Okay. Well then just

00:17:09.540 be content with not finding your passion. I would say that I'm very passionate and purpose-driven

00:17:16.100 and fulfilled regarding what we're doing here with order of man, but it would have been very easy for

00:17:21.260 me not to do this. I was a fairly successful financial advisor. The business was growing.

00:17:26.560 I was helping people. I was serving people. I found meaning in it. Ultimately I knew there was

00:17:31.620 something that was lacking and missing. I had conversations with a good friend of mine and I

00:17:35.320 said, I'm not going to be doing this forever. Cause I knew I acknowledged that it wasn't it for me.

00:17:39.120 And he knew that he saw that in me, but I had to take a risk. I had to jump out. I had to start

00:17:44.220 something new. I had to put myself in a new environment, new situations. I had to learn

00:17:47.800 from other people. I had to hire coaches and mentors. And now through the last six years,

00:17:54.280 we've developed something that is very purpose-driven for me, but it took one step after the

00:18:00.880 other of exploring doubt and uncertainty and unknowns and taking risks and having things pan out and not

00:18:07.380 always having things pan out and losing money and traveling across the country and moving my family

00:18:12.340 here. That's how you find it. You go discover it. You articulate it. You uncover it. You take one step

00:18:19.700 and explore that, that realm. And if it doesn't work, you turn and you explore this other realm and

00:18:24.920 gradually and eventually you'll find something that I don't, I don't actually think that one day you'll

00:18:31.140 realize. Let me think about how to say this. I don't think one day you'll say, that's it.

00:18:38.460 Eureka. I found it. I found it. I think, I think more accurately what'll happen is you'll wake up one

00:18:46.520 day and you'll think, holy cow, I actually really enjoy my life. But you didn't even realize that there

00:18:54.300 was like one pivotal moment in time that everything changed. It just gradually changed through a consistent

00:18:59.820 action, taking calculated, intelligent risks and living life in his adventure.

00:19:06.580 Yeah. Well, and if you, and it's a step back, but I think it's valuable to mention you're talking

00:19:13.860 about because of entertainment and whatnot, we have this false understanding of how this works.

00:19:21.140 I think the other part, and let me know if you agree, is that we, there's always the right and the

00:19:27.780 wrong. Right. And I think some people fall into this when they think about marriage, for instance,

00:19:32.760 is like, well, I need to find the right one. And, and I think we add that same definition onto things

00:19:40.700 like this. Like what is the passion, the right one versus the not right one. It's like, no, actually

00:19:47.460 right now for you, it's order of man. I actually think it could be probably a hundred different things

00:19:54.360 that you could feel fully fulfilled doing and find purpose and fulfillment in. It just happened to

00:20:01.560 kind of be order of man. And I think guys need to let go of that idea of the thing, the right thing,

00:20:07.800 and realize that there's a great, many things and you might pivot midway and you might adjust and

00:20:14.240 you should actually opportunities will present themselves as you, as you find fulfillment in life.

00:20:18.840 So, well, and I know the guys that have listened for, for any amount of time already know this,

00:20:24.200 but I had another podcast prior to order a man and it would have been very easy for me to say,

00:20:29.000 well, that podcast was a failure. No, it wasn't a failure. I stopped doing it, but I cut my teeth

00:20:35.300 podcasting through 2025 episodes doing this other thing. If I wouldn't have done that, even though I

00:20:41.640 stopped doing that after about three or four months, you wouldn't be listening to this today.

00:20:46.640 Yeah. And, and so what we ended up doing and you you're talking about this is we present ourselves

00:20:52.580 false dichotomies. Like it's either this or this black or white, yes or no. And I believe that your

00:21:00.140 passion will be found in the gray areas, the third option, if you will. And let's be very, very careful

00:21:06.860 of the right or wrong, like you said, and paying ourselves into false dichotomies. There, there are other

00:21:11.860 options in other scenarios. This is one thing we run across against when people say things like,

00:21:16.640 should I, should I, uh, stay with this job and make more money or should I follow my passion?

00:21:23.180 Well, actually that's a false dichotomy. There are other options. I'm following my passion right now.

00:21:30.620 I'm not following it. I'm discovering it. I'm developing it. I'm building it. That's the better

00:21:35.300 way for me to say it. And I've all, I'm also making more money in my life than I have at any

00:21:40.040 other point in my life. That's the third option. Yeah. It's there. You just have to uncover it and

00:21:47.940 work towards it. Yeah. Yeah. You, you see that with marriages, right? That's the typical marriage

00:21:52.420 thing. Is it better for our kids to, to be in a house of contention and misery or, or for us to

00:22:00.900 get divorced? It's like, uh, no, just stay married and don't be contentious and make it miserable.

00:22:07.740 Yeah. Yeah. There's also, is she the one? That's another thing. Is she the one? No,

00:22:13.040 she's not the one. Cause there is no one. My wife is not the one. I am not her one. Now I believe

00:22:21.040 that we'll be together forever, but it isn't just one. I have to make sure that I continue

00:22:28.920 to maintain, probably not the best word to use, but maintain this relationship.

00:22:35.980 I have to invest in it. I have to invest in her. I have to invest in myself. I have to be,

00:22:40.460 be more capable. I don't want her to outgrow me. So I have to keep up. She doesn't want to out

00:22:45.340 me to outgrow her. So she has to keep up. It's not about the one. It's about the one

00:22:50.980 I choose to be with. I'm choosing this. She's choosing this and let's make sure we make the

00:22:56.040 most of it. Yeah. I like it. All right. Uh, McCarroll 34, Mr. Mickler, do you drink alcohol?

00:23:05.180 If no, why not? It's been a long time. It's been a really long time. Um, I remember just getting

00:23:12.100 just wasted all the time, right out of high school and college, just all the time.

00:23:19.480 Um, and I just didn't, I didn't like it. I didn't like feeling like that. I didn't like

00:23:24.780 being like that and decided to stop drinking. And then coincidentally, or maybe not coincidentally,

00:23:31.020 I met my wife several months later and that's it. That was it for me.

00:23:36.420 Yeah. That's funny. I, and it's interesting how life, if we're paying attention, life can

00:23:44.200 really help us just naturally kind of learn things on our own. I, I remember as I was a

00:23:50.820 senior in high school and I moved a lot when, as a kid. And I, I remember visiting some old

00:23:57.700 friends. I was a senior. They're having their end of the year, like dance. And they're like,

00:24:03.380 Hey, Kip, you should come back in town and come visit us. And went back in town. And about

00:24:10.620 3 a.m. in the morning, I just got in my car and I drove home and it, and it was, it was

00:24:17.900 a result of just this horrible taste in my mouth of like, you guys are going nowhere.

00:24:24.120 Yeah. Right. Like, yeah. Like the party went South real quick. I mean, it was crazy. And I was just,

00:24:30.980 and it just, instead of like drawing me in, it did the complete opposite. I was just like, Whoa,

00:24:38.580 I don't want any part of this, you know? And I, and I, you know, I love those guys. And I said my

00:24:44.460 goodbyes and, and went home, you know, in the middle of the night. And the same thing happened when I

00:24:50.260 went to college, I had a roommate that was, he was a Jehovah witness. It was great. It was a Mormon,

00:24:55.760 a Jehovah witness and an atheist. We're all roommates. It was, are you serious? Yeah. Yeah.

00:25:00.520 We had the most interesting conversations about religion. Regardless, you know, Jehovah witnesses

00:25:06.620 don't drink. And my roommate just had this freedom, right? Got into college. He was drinking all the

00:25:14.660 time. And I, in six months, I watched him become an alcoholic. Like I, he'd get up in the morning,

00:25:21.320 pound a couple of beers for breakfast before going to school. Like, and his life fell apart

00:25:28.020 right in front of me. And I was just like, just reassurance of like, yeah, you know what? Not

00:25:34.560 necessary for that in my life. And so I've luckily I've had life kind of teach me some lessons where I was

00:25:41.880 just like, you know, I'm okay. You know, but you also, like you said, you also listened to it because

00:25:48.240 we hear those things. We hear those lessons and get into those experiences. And then we don't listen

00:25:54.320 to it. And then we also complain about how our life is turning out. Yeah. Well, you're not listening

00:25:59.820 again to the spirit or light magic or the universe. You're not listening, listen and apply and your life

00:26:08.980 will turn out better. Yeah. I, uh, I heard something on Twitter or saw something on Twitter

00:26:14.380 this morning and the guy said, the quality of your life will be determined by the decisions you make.

00:26:19.620 And at first I said, well, no shit. That's the first thing I just thought. I'm like, really?

00:26:25.860 That's a dumb thing to say. But then I was like, wait, wait, let me just read it again.

00:26:31.040 And it's, it's overly simplistic, of course, but it's also so profound.

00:26:40.880 The quality of your life will be determined by your decisions.

00:26:46.400 So make better decisions. Exactly. It sounds so dumb on the surface,

00:26:52.580 but it's so profound and we don't think about it. Oh, you know, the one beer. Oh, the,

00:26:57.680 the one time I step out on my wife. Oh, you know, that one time I cheat, uh, on, on my exercise or

00:27:03.400 I cheat a client, uh, or I steal this thing, or I speak ill of somebody. It's just one, just one.

00:27:09.360 All of it. It's all of the decisions combined. That's why I have a hard time resonating with

00:27:13.480 the questions that are like what I have dubbed the one thing questions. Yeah. What's the one thing

00:27:18.660 you wish you know? What's the one lesson you learned? Little things. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I,

00:27:23.960 I understand the, the intent of the question. It's just really hard for me to resonate because

00:27:28.800 it's never about one thing. It never has been one thing. If it was just one thing, how easy would

00:27:33.100 that be? Oh, I have to do is make one good decision. One thing that's easy. All of us have

00:27:38.580 done that made one good decision. So clearly it's not just one thing. Yeah. Well, and it's, you know,

00:27:45.060 back to the book I was reading on yesterday. It's like, it's the little decisions. You know,

00:27:51.120 what is your word? How often is, or do you give your word all the time, right? You're creating

00:27:58.080 all the time. We're creating this conversation. When I say I'll be home at a certain time,

00:28:03.200 when I tell myself, I'm going to get my ass out of bed at five 30 and I don't like, it's all those

00:28:10.460 little things. And, and not to beat up on the guys that drink alcohol, but like how, how often are

00:28:16.200 guys asking, why do I feel this is necessary? Why am I drinking? Do you even ask that question?

00:28:25.880 Probably not. And, and a lot of us may find out that why are we, because we're sedating ourself

00:28:31.220 because we're avoiding something. Cause we don't want to have to deal with something or we're trying

00:28:35.680 to escape and, and not, and this isn't a beat up on alcohol, but it's the same thing of like,

00:28:41.040 well, why am I going to watch this TV show instead for, for four hours, instead of do some stuff that

00:28:47.520 I know I should do. Cause I don't want to deal with it. Why do I sleep in? Cause I don't want to

00:28:53.200 deal with it. You know, what are all the things that we're avoiding constantly in the little

00:28:57.500 decisions that we make? Yep. I think that's exactly right. I stole that sedation from you. You,

00:29:02.940 that's one of the, one of the, somebody else. So it's cool. A nickelism. Everybody's stolen

00:29:09.360 everything from everybody else. So it's all good. There should be no, no more quotes on anything.

00:29:14.920 Yeah. Uh, Oh, I was just going to say, when you were talking about being impeccable with your word

00:29:19.200 be, and when you mess up, cause you are going to mess up, we all mess up, fix it. Yeah.

00:29:26.500 And store, don't ignore it. Right. Restore it. That's a great way to say it. Restore your

00:29:30.460 integrity. I actually really liked that phrase, restore your integrity because it can be restored.

00:29:36.180 It just is going to require some humility, some eating crow and some better decisions moving

00:29:41.060 forward. Totally. And what I love about the idea of restoring our integrity, if you don't mind me

00:29:48.800 riffing on this a little bit, cause I think it's just profound is from a religious perspective for,

00:29:55.160 for the Christians listening, it's, it's the atonement, right? Like that's, that's how you restore

00:30:00.200 your repentance process. Exactly. And what's, what's great about the repentance processes for

00:30:06.980 some, and, and I don't want to downplay the idea of the atonement, but let's just, let's just assume

00:30:13.420 it's a story. What's great about the concept of an atonement is it makes it believable. It allows

00:30:21.300 someone to say, you know what, despite my action, I can actually move beyond it. Like it, it gives some

00:30:29.080 context to the idea of making mistake and, and, and being a new, it adds more definition to it than

00:30:37.500 just, you know, Hey, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have done that. And I move on. You know what I mean?

00:30:43.100 Yeah. I don't know. Well, no, I think you're right. I also think I really liked that the idea,

00:30:47.220 the concept of story, because yes, it, it makes it, I think you said more, did you say believable?

00:30:52.360 Is that what you said? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It also makes it more palpable and it's, and it's easier

00:30:58.080 to understand concepts that would, I think in a lot of ways be difficult to grasp. If you didn't

00:31:02.100 have the stories to tell, I've really had to learn this because I tend to be so black and white,

00:31:06.600 even during presenting, I would be so, so black and white. And, you know, here's the data, here's the,

00:31:12.900 the statistics to support it. Here's why. And I was never very good at telling stories and I would

00:31:18.640 get up on stage and I would give what I thought was a great presentation and it just wouldn't land.

00:31:24.240 It wouldn't resonate with anybody. And somebody came to me and said, you really need to incorporate

00:31:29.380 some stories. And I started to get better at this. As I wrote my book, you really need to incorporate

00:31:34.540 your own personal stories into what you're doing. And as I started to do that on stage, more and more

00:31:40.420 people resonated, more and more people came up to me with their own personal stories and shared what

00:31:45.400 they were going through because I opened myself up to share my stories. This is as old as man himself.

00:31:52.100 So stories are very, very valuable. Yeah. All right. Jimmy Bryant, uh, Portillo, 1989

00:32:01.080 in a marriage, when do you think it's right to call it quits when you and your wife have different

00:32:08.060 goals in life and now want different things in life? I find that interesting, different goals in life

00:32:14.280 and different things in life. Yeah. Well, we all want to have different goals and different things.

00:32:20.520 Yeah. I don't want to keep bees. I don't want to grow a garden. I don't want to be the one who

00:32:26.200 actually sits down every single day and teaches my children their curriculums. I don't want to do that

00:32:32.340 stuff. I don't want to cook dinner. I like there's, there's a lot that I, that she does that I'm just

00:32:37.760 not even remotely interested in. And there's a lot that I do. She doesn't want a career.

00:32:42.580 She doesn't want the attention that comes with doing what it is we're doing here.

00:32:48.700 Okay. Does that mean that we shouldn't be together? No, we have different goals,

00:32:52.860 but we're aligned in a common purpose. This is a really tough question because again,

00:32:56.620 this is almost a one thing type question. Yeah. I don't know. I don't, if she says this phrase,

00:33:02.720 then it's over. If she does this one thing, then it's so even, even take fidelity issues.

00:33:08.980 There's a lot of men who will say, if she ever cheats on me, it's over. I can certainly appreciate

00:33:16.020 that thought. Yeah. But there's a lot of nuance too. There's a lot of personality.

00:33:23.920 Yeah. How were you showing up in the marriage and what's her past? And I don't know. I mean,

00:33:31.000 there's just a lot. So I can't say it's this one thing that if this happens or you guys have this

00:33:38.100 conversation, then it's over. I would work towards making amends, rectifying the situations,

00:33:45.660 humbling yourself, talking about the issues that you're dealing with, trying to figure out if there's

00:33:51.820 some sort of commonality or even not trying to figure out, but creating some sort of commonality

00:33:57.540 between your goals and objectives, you made a commitment to her. She made a commitment to you.

00:34:01.800 So you have a commitment to try to work this out. Is there a point at which her goals are completely

00:34:09.200 different than yours where it's not able to be reconciled? Probably. Yeah, there probably is

00:34:16.060 a point at which that's the case. I can't tell you what it is. Well, here's a story since we're

00:34:22.720 talking about stories. When my wife and I went through our separation 11 or 12 years ago,

00:34:29.560 most of the people in my life told me it was over. I said, Ryan, it's over. She's leaving.

00:34:36.660 She's moving on. It's done. The marriage is over. And they were coming from a good place. They

00:34:42.980 weren't being mean-spirited. They were trying to help me. Now it's time for you to get over it.

00:34:46.760 I had neighbors and friends and family members. It's over. It's over. It's over.

00:34:49.800 But deep down inside, there was a little part of me that said, it's not over. Keep working. Keep

00:34:57.260 fighting. Keep developing. Keep growing. Just keep going. It's not over. And I never believed that it

00:35:03.380 was over until that one moment that I talked about where I thought it was over. And that was kind of

00:35:07.320 the pinnacle of the, or at least the beginning of the growth in both of us. But I would just say,

00:35:15.940 always keep fighting for your marriage. Just one more thing. What's one more thing I could do to

00:35:22.580 help? What's one more thing I can do to improve myself? What's one more conversation that I can

00:35:26.640 have? And there may come a point in time where you reach that, that end of the line, but I'm telling

00:35:31.560 you what, being married has been the most important decision that I've ever made. Doing order of man is

00:35:37.020 the most important to sit. One of the most important decisions, maybe a close second.

00:35:40.180 And I would never want to look back and think that I didn't give all of the attention to that thing

00:35:49.500 that was one of the single most important decisions in my life. I would want to look back,

00:35:56.140 even if it didn't work out with a clean conscience. Yeah. Knowing that, man, that really sucked. And that

00:36:02.880 was dark and it was hard, but my conscience is clean because I did everything I knew to do.

00:36:08.780 I tried new things. I pushed further than I wanted to go. And it wasn't enough in that case,

00:36:17.540 but at least your conscience is clean. Totally. Well, and it's, it's interesting because,

00:36:24.040 you know, as you know, you know, I got divorced and maybe I've expressed this. I actually dated my wife

00:36:34.640 for a while. In fact, you're saying before you got married, is that what you're saying?

00:36:41.060 No, we got divorced. Okay. And, and, and, and I'm saying this in a little, in a mean spirited way,

00:36:48.060 I probably shouldn't say it this way, but, but if she was like, you know, we got divorced and if she

00:36:53.240 was like, Hey, I think we should work things out. I'd be like, okay. And that happened numerous times

00:36:59.540 for almost five years, I dredged myself through. And, and, and one, I want to be really clear.

00:37:07.340 It was the hardest thing. It may, it felt like I was getting divorced probably like 20 times over

00:37:12.780 in a five-year period, because by the way, you can't really date your, your ex-wife without it

00:37:21.400 feeling like you just got married again, or you're still married. And then if it doesn't work out,

00:37:26.200 then it's like this horrible experience, you know what I mean? It was, it was a mess. And,

00:37:31.040 and I had a lot of people that, that loved and supported me was like, Kip, what are you doing?

00:37:37.880 Yes. Like let it go. But here's the deal. It was the same thing, Ryan. I was like, I have to give it

00:37:46.740 a chance. I have to know that I gave it a chance. And it's really interesting if we bring religion to it.

00:37:54.720 I don't think the Lord is ever going to go, Oh, you know what, Kip, you lived a great life,

00:38:00.260 dude, you're a sucker. People took advantage of you. You gave too much empathy. You tried too much,

00:38:06.700 you know, like you should have had more spine and, and blew them off. It's like, no, he's going to say,

00:38:12.300 you know what? You were willing to suffer a little bit just to make sure. Yeah. It's society that was

00:38:18.200 saying I was a sucker for, for giving it one more chance. And it was interesting is I gave,

00:38:23.180 I kept giving it a chance because I thought there was a chance because I thought it was worth it.

00:38:28.840 And it was so refreshing for me where after five years of doing this, I remember it like it was

00:38:37.160 yesterday. It was a defining moment for me where it clicked. And, and I remember talking with her and

00:38:43.540 I'm like, yeah, you know, it's over, but it took, it took me a long time to get to that point. But,

00:38:51.140 but I knew in my heart, my soul, like, yeah, this isn't like the pendulum has swung in a,

00:38:58.000 in a direction where this isn't good for you or me. You know what I mean? And, and I, and I realized

00:39:03.440 there wasn't a probability of that working and I felt, and I feel okay about that. Right. But it

00:39:09.900 looked crazy, you know, for that time. You said it was me. You said the way you're going to say it

00:39:15.940 was mean spirited, but I didn't hear anything mean. Well, yeah. Yeah. Well, it's cause I didn't say

00:39:20.120 what was in my mind. What I was going to say is like, you know, yeah, no, whenever, you know,

00:39:24.760 whenever, cause some of it was, you know, if she was dating a guy and they broke up, she would feel

00:39:30.380 lonely. And it was like, you know, I was a booty call, you know, or, you know what I mean? I was

00:39:34.880 to fall back a little bit, you know? So not that she didn't have probably, um, still feelings for

00:39:41.100 me, but you know what I mean? No, I get it. But from the outside looking in that it looked like

00:39:46.060 I was just, you know, the puppy dog waiting on the corner, you know, right to get picked up.

00:39:51.040 So yeah, it's tough. I don't know if we answered this, that question and we just talked about it

00:39:54.920 a lot, but you know, it's a tough, it's a tough situation and you're going to go back and forth,

00:39:58.740 but, uh, yeah. Oh, I did have one thing. What are you assuming? Like when I read that question,

00:40:05.740 right? Like we don't have the same goals and we want different things in life. Like what are all

00:40:11.720 the assumptions you're making about her and about her feelings and, and be careful, right? Cause you,

00:40:20.300 that's your creation is your assumptions. And, and maybe there's a breakdown of communication and you

00:40:26.360 need to get, get more, be more open, ask more questions and, and fear, fearlessly communicate

00:40:33.420 with her. And, and by the way, you know, relationships take sacrifice and, and the

00:40:39.260 nature of sacrifice is that you have to give up something important. Yeah. Because if it wasn't

00:40:44.580 important to you, then it really wouldn't be a sacrifice and the relationship wouldn't mean

00:40:47.680 anything or it wouldn't mean as much. The nature of sacrifice is that it has to be something

00:40:52.280 important. And so what have you given up? What are you willing to give up? What is she willing to

00:40:57.540 give up? Maybe she's not. Well, that's a pretty good indicator, but there has to be some sort of

00:41:02.000 sacrifice. I'm not saying that each of you should sacrifice all your goals and dreams and ambitions,

00:41:05.820 but there has to be some sort of sacrifice to be together. Otherwise it's not going to be valuable

00:41:11.620 to either of you. Yeah. Cause it's never, it's never going to always be convenient. So of course,

00:41:16.800 of course, absolutely. All right. Let's drive along. Okay. All right. Cool. Uh, uh, Instagram names

00:41:24.880 X covenix. Uh, do you believe the justice system is salvageable?

00:41:30.460 Yeah.

00:41:32.000 Like what, what, what part of the justice system are you saying? The courts are you saying like,

00:41:37.960 I don't know. Are you saying, uh, it's hard for me to answer that question. Yes. Can, can things be

00:41:44.440 corrected? Sure. Can, can problems be rooted out and addressed and dealt with? Absolutely. It's going

00:41:50.580 to take honorable people. I'm just speaking broadly because it's such a broad question, but it's going to

00:41:54.900 take honorable men who believe in, who have values, who believe in individual responsibility, who honor

00:42:03.200 the constitution, who honor individuals as individuals who believe in individual rights

00:42:07.660 and doing the right thing. So the answer is yes, it can, but it's just going to take a lot of work.

00:42:14.380 Anything can be corrected. It's just going to take either or both a lot of pain and, or a lot of

00:42:21.600 work. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and are you talking about police reform? Are you talking about the criminal

00:42:28.320 system? Are you talking about, uh, uh, uh, the prison system? Like there's just so many elements

00:42:32.960 of it. It's hard for me to say, yes, we need to do X, Y, and Z for this one thing. Cause yeah,

00:42:37.280 I don't know what you're referring to, but I think your result, I mean, your answer is applicable to

00:42:41.700 all of them. It takes, it takes people rising up, doing the right thing, regardless of the social

00:42:48.160 consequences, you know, like they need to be willing to rise up and be truthful. Yeah. Because

00:42:54.780 what I see my interpretation of it is that what we see regarding the justice system from the top to

00:43:01.260 the bottom from policing to law enforcement, to the judicial system, to prison systems,

00:43:10.380 we're, we're being told something that is not true and it's being filtered through large and legacy

00:43:19.060 media and they're painting the narrative that they want to paint. So we have to be very, very careful

00:43:26.180 of interpreting that as absolute truth with a capital T because it isn't, which means that we

00:43:31.480 need to get other information. We need to hear from other people. We need to do the research ourselves

00:43:35.840 so we can take this spotty reporting and journalism and backfill it with the facts that aren't being

00:43:45.360 presented to us, the data that supports or disproves what it is that's being presented to us.

00:43:50.120 And just because everyone believes something doesn't necessarily make that truth or the more

00:43:56.000 that I say, it doesn't make it true either. Exactly. We have a tendency just to pander to the

00:44:00.460 masses, right? Address the social issue. Well, and I think most people, well, I actually think all people

00:44:07.080 are extremely lazy. Everybody. Yeah. Everybody, even the most successful people, naturally,

00:44:14.040 we're all lazy and we have to fight against that. And I would say that the majority of the population

00:44:18.600 has not done a good job at that. And so we look at an article, we look at a headline,

00:44:24.920 we look at what somebody told us. And as long as it sounds like it could be, then we just accept it

00:44:30.420 as truth. And we make our decisions based off of inaccuracies because we're lazy or because we want

00:44:38.600 something, which is greed. Yeah. Or, or it's fear. And we, we got to understand something and we're too

00:44:45.640 lazy to actually dive into it. So let's just pigeonhole it. Let's put it in a box and okay,

00:44:50.540 now I understand. It's like, actually, no, it's way more complex than that. Yeah. And you're going

00:44:55.300 to have to do some critical thinking. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to think of a quote that I really like.

00:45:01.520 And apparently I don't like it that much because I can't remember it. It'll come to you.

00:45:06.020 Or not. All right. It might not. Next question. Malt Rocket. What's the difference between being

00:45:14.100 a company man versus being a doormat? When should you draw the line between the two? I've never heard

00:45:21.180 of this analogy, a company man. I like, why would you even want to be a company man?

00:45:27.700 That's, that's not good either to me to be a company man. I mean, I know it means that you're

00:45:34.200 going to sacrifice and there's some loyalty and, and, and you're going to do what needs to be done

00:45:38.560 for the company, but that comes at a, at a, at a price, your own wellbeing, your own integrity.

00:45:44.280 Like, I don't want to be a company man. Oh, like regardless of your integrity company comes first

00:45:51.140 kind of thing. That's when I hear somebody who's a company, oh, he's a company man. He's a company man.

00:45:55.080 Yeah. He's going to do what's right by the company before anything else. But that isn't

00:45:59.160 accurate to me either. That isn't the best way to operate your life. Now I think loyalty is

00:46:04.860 important. I think working hard for an organization that has served you and has a contract with you and

00:46:09.920 has agreed to work with you and train you and get you trained and invest in you. I think that's

00:46:14.740 important. Yeah. But I have no allegiance to companies. I'll support them as long as I feel

00:46:22.540 that are worth supporting. I'll work with them as long as I feel like their values and the way they

00:46:27.600 operate their business is in alignment with mine, but I have no sense of ongoing loyalty just for the

00:46:34.200 sake of being loyal to that particular organization or company because companies change, the dynamic

00:46:41.680 changes, their values change, and that's not always going to be in alignment with me. We have this

00:46:48.620 really weird thing. And I think this is old school mentality of just, well, you know, they've really

00:46:54.100 invested in me and this and that. I'll tell you, when I was doing my financial planning practice,

00:46:58.780 I started with a company that offered me a lot. They offered me a lot of training, support.

00:47:05.720 They gave me an office space, a remote office space in Southern Utah when the majority of the

00:47:09.820 company, 95% of it was in Northern Utah. And in exchange, I was giving up a percentage of my

00:47:16.780 commission because I was working with this organization, which was a pretty good deal at

00:47:19.980 the time. And that was the agreement. And then I began to realize as I trained and developed and

00:47:26.720 got better and improved and built my clientele and my client base. And I saw what else was out there

00:47:31.140 that the deal was no longer favorable for me. It was favorable for them. You know, they were paying

00:47:37.580 again for my office or some support and for some training. And then I looked at the commission I was

00:47:43.420 giving up. I'm like, Oh my, I can take care of my own office. I can get my own support.

00:47:48.060 And at that point in time, I had a decision to make. Do I be a company man because they supported

00:47:54.300 me and did all this stuff? Or do I go out and start my own thing? And actually I struggled with

00:47:59.320 that decision because I said, well, they supported me. They trained me. They, this, they, that. And I had

00:48:04.000 some people in my life who I thought highly of who said, yes, they did those things as an agreement

00:48:08.440 that you would split your commission with the, with the organization and you honored your end of

00:48:13.380 the deal. They trained you, you split your commission, but that contract starts over every

00:48:17.740 single day. It's the same thing with any other employment. You do X, Y, and Z. And the company

00:48:23.760 agrees you to pay you for that work you did. And then when you clock out for the day, the agreement's

00:48:29.760 over now, by default, it starts over again tomorrow, but there's no sense of ongoing obligation

00:48:36.060 on either of your parts. You're not obligated to stay with them just because you've gotten better

00:48:42.000 and they're the ones who trained you. No, it was for that day only. So again, I reiterate,

00:48:49.080 I think it's important. I think loyalty is important. I think supporting an organization

00:48:53.060 that has supported you, that you believe in, that your values are aligned. I think that's important,

00:48:56.700 but I'm not going to do that at the expense of my own wellbeing, my own sanity, or my own

00:49:03.000 integrity. And that's where the doormat thing comes into play. I'm not going to let you railroad

00:49:08.500 me. I'm not going to let you use guilt as a pair of handcuffs to keep me here. I'm not going to let

00:49:15.780 you abuse this relationship. I'm not going to let you treat me like garbage or not value my ideas and

00:49:22.300 my input. Look, you believed enough in me to support me and train me. And now you don't? No,

00:49:26.640 not playing that game. I'm out. Yeah. So I don't quite think it's company man or doormat. I actually

00:49:34.280 don't think either of them are going to serve you well and over the long haul. Yeah. And this is good

00:49:40.220 advice for the company. Like think through it right now. It's like, Hey, if you're a business owner,

00:49:46.520 what do you need to be doing on the company side where your employees feel invested? And you better

00:49:54.580 create an environment where they, they're self-directed, where you're empowering them,

00:50:00.600 where you're constantly providing value so they can be fully invested in what the company's about.

00:50:06.700 Because they should bail if you're taking advantage of them and you're trying to, you know,

00:50:14.060 bulldoze them or, you know what I mean? Of course, they're doing things that they don't want to do.

00:50:19.260 You know, one thing you'll hear from organizations, they'll say, well, you know,

00:50:22.300 we trained them and now they're, they're leaving us. Yeah. That's, that's right. That's a risk that

00:50:27.180 you take as an employer. Yeah. That's the risk. So you could do one of two things. You could just

00:50:31.560 deal with that knowing that that's how it's going to play out. Or you could give that individual an

00:50:35.700 incentive to stay with you. And it has to be an increasing incentive as they get better.

00:50:41.500 They're worth more. You have, they're worth more to you. And if you don't like that,

00:50:46.240 don't have employees because that's how it works or don't train them. And that's obviously not

00:50:50.800 going to serve you. Yeah, totally. Well, and that's, and that's not, that's, that's not the

00:50:56.120 employee you want anyway. Of course not. That's, you don't want an employee that's not bought into

00:51:01.080 what you're doing as an organization. That's not invested. I mean, think about the iron council,

00:51:06.560 for instance, if you had a bunch of guys that were just strictly doing what you told them to do,

00:51:11.040 but they weren't committed to what we're doing, it would show up. It would show up in the work that

00:51:15.920 they do. The quality of work that they would provide as team leaders or anything else would,

00:51:20.260 would be diminished. Well, I used to take it really invested. Well, I used to take it really

00:51:24.900 personal when somebody would leave the iron council. I can take it really personal. Yeah.

00:51:30.580 And, and then I stopped doing that because it's not personal at all. Of course, obviously going

00:51:35.780 back to the four agreements, don't take anything personally. And, and I don't quite, when people

00:51:41.440 say, Hey, I want to leave the iron council, I don't question them. I don't try to convince

00:51:44.560 them to stay around. I mean, I might say something like, Hey, why, you know what? If,

00:51:48.480 if they're a member I know and I'm familiar with, and they've been around for, I'm like, Hey,

00:51:51.400 you mind sharing with me why you're leaving, but I'm not going to try to convince somebody to stick

00:51:56.700 around who isn't interested in being there for whatever reason. Yeah. It's, it's fine. And you

00:52:01.720 know what I do now? Genuinely wish them well on their path. Hey, I don't want to be a member of the

00:52:08.460 iron council for this reason. Hey, you know what? I understand it's not for everybody.

00:52:11.400 Um, maybe you'll find something that's more suited for you or maybe, maybe not. And you're

00:52:15.660 just not interested anymore, but for whatever, whatever reason, whatever thing it is, I just

00:52:19.940 want to wish you well, if it ever in the future, you feel like you want to come back. Let me know.

00:52:24.440 We, we didn't, we'd embrace you with open arms, but in the meantime, I hope you succeed. I genuinely

00:52:29.460 believe that. And that's a more mature response to it. That's how everybody should be behaving

00:52:34.240 companies, employees, organizations, memberships, et cetera, et cetera.

00:52:38.380 Totally. Hmm. Stephen Joraz, um, hopefully you know what this is, Ryan, I'm torn between taking

00:52:46.940 the leap, joining RCMP or continuing my pursuit of becoming a firefighter. I'm sort of on the

00:52:53.960 crossroads. Both our careers, I believe would suit me. Well, do I just flip the coin? What are your

00:52:58.920 thoughts? Me? So maybe some strategy on two directions from a career path, feel great about

00:53:04.780 either one. How do you make that decision? I mean, it's hard. Sometimes both are both,

00:53:10.520 both answers are good. That's the, that's the hard part. And sometimes both answers are shitty too.

00:53:15.740 Like that goes both ways. It's never, it's never that, Oh, that decision's easy. Cause then it's

00:53:20.760 not a decision. There's no decision to be made. It's already been made. Decisions are always going to

00:53:24.880 be either both crappy or both really good and have present their own shares of opportunities.

00:53:30.840 Here's what I would say. This isn't a direct answer, but I think this will give me some

00:53:34.120 perspective. Did you know what RCMP is? Uh, I don't, I'm going to, I'm going to Google that

00:53:38.460 here in a second. Cause, or maybe you can Google that while I'm saying this. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I

00:53:42.080 should, but I don't right off hand. Uh, here's what I would suggest to give you some, some perspective.

00:53:47.000 I want you to fast forward in your life 20 years. Now you're 20 years older, you're living life as

00:53:57.020 you are 20 years from now, looking back, which decision will you be glad that you made? It's

00:54:04.820 a very, very powerful exercise in consciousness. Fast forward 20 years, looking back, which decision

00:54:11.900 will you be glad you're made? You made because at 20, when I'm 20, I'm going to be 20 years from now,

00:54:16.260 I'm going to be 60 years old. As a 60 year old, I'm going to have a lot more perspective and be

00:54:22.640 valuing a lot more different things than I am now. Cause my kids are going to be out of the house.

00:54:27.920 That's a big deal. Think about that alone in 20 years, all my kids are gone. So which decision

00:54:34.000 will I be happy? I made in 20 years, the one that let me be around my kids the longest.

00:54:39.180 And that might be enough right there, but this is a very powerful exercise. If you do it correctly,

00:54:44.680 do it thoughtfully. You don't just like skip like, Oh, well, I think this one, no, like really

00:54:48.400 ponder when you're 60 years old, what life is going to look like. My kids are going to be out

00:54:53.220 of the house. Maybe my wife and I are dealing with maybe medical issues. I don't know. There's so many

00:55:01.540 different options that might be happening in 20 years, but it's going to give me a perspective

00:55:05.240 of the way I look at things now. Yeah. What did you figure out what it was?

00:55:08.920 Yeah. Royal Canadian mounted police. Oh yeah. Of course. I wouldn't know that.

00:55:14.160 Of course. Americans only care about what's within our borders. So of course I wouldn't know that,

00:55:19.720 but I appreciate your desire to serve in the police or was it a firefighter? Is that what it was?

00:55:27.820 Yeah. Firefighter and police officer.

00:55:29.460 Yeah. Again, both, both great career paths. I honor you and commend you for the decisions you're

00:55:34.100 trying to make there. They both sound like they're probably great opportunities,

00:55:36.820 but, uh, try that, try that exercise. See if that gives you some perspective you haven't considered

00:55:40.900 before. Okay. Um, T-dub 19 K. Are you attending a CME in Vegas? So you don't know what CME is.

00:55:55.920 We need to, we need to research these. Yeah. I don't, I don't, I just assume you're connected,

00:56:01.140 you know, all this stuff. CME. I mean, maybe I actually try to disconnect from it pretty well.

00:56:05.120 What is it? It's probably some sort of mastermind or conference or something. I don't know.

00:56:10.020 Uh, and maybe it's already happened. So either I did not go or I am not going,

00:56:15.720 but those are the only two things that could happen. Did you figure it out?

00:56:21.480 Most of them are like chemical conference or, uh, medical conferences in Vegas.

00:56:28.120 I don't know. I won't be at the chemical medical conference in Las Vegas. Nope. I won't be there.

00:56:33.500 Maybe CME's. Sorry. Next question. I don't know. It's, I know there was an event, some sort of,

00:56:42.040 uh, I don't know, some sort of like million millionaire event or something this weekend,

00:56:47.560 last weekend. I don't know what it was, but it seemed like a lot of people I know on some friends

00:56:52.320 were there. Yeah. Maybe that I know which one you're talking about. Like what is Sean Whalen there?

00:56:57.660 Yeah. Sean was there. And some of those guys. Yeah. Yeah. I saw Instagram posts. I was like,

00:57:02.980 Oh, I wasn't invited assholes. It's joking. All right. Caleb McDaddy.

00:57:08.400 I wasn't invited either. So if that makes me feel any better. Yeah. All right. Uh, kind of a

00:57:15.840 specific question. Hold on. Actually, hold on. I got to go back to that because there's something we

00:57:19.960 need to talk about here. There's this concept of fear of missing out. And that's what's these devices

00:57:28.480 are so amazing. Don't you see this post, you're like all these guys like, Oh, so I had such a

00:57:34.800 great time. You're like, Hmm. So, so here's what I would say. Cause it's easy to get trapped in this

00:57:43.020 thing and like, Oh, my buddies are doing this. And you said something and I don't think you were

00:57:46.700 taking it personally, but maybe you were, maybe there's an element of truth to it, but I know

00:57:50.280 people certainly do like, well, how come I didn't get invited? How come I didn't, I didn't know about

00:57:54.640 this. I didn't, that happens all the time, even to me. And I tend to be pretty, pretty well connected

00:57:58.880 and I don't get invited to everything. I don't get backstage passes to all the things that I wish I

00:58:03.720 would, but here's the deal. There's two things. Number one, you got to assert yourself. It's nobody

00:58:08.240 else's responsibility to make sure you feel welcomed. Okay. So if you want to be at a thing,

00:58:13.260 be it a thing that's on you. Can I add to this? This goes for you, the people that just moved into

00:58:19.860 a new neighborhood. Yeah. A hundred percent. Like this, this transcends just like other events,

00:58:25.000 like anyone that's complaining of not being involved in any circumstance proceed. Right.

00:58:31.840 So initiative and being assertive is one. You want to be at a thing, be at a thing. You didn't get an

00:58:36.700 invite, ask for an invite. The first conference that I ever went to when I started order of man

00:58:41.420 was a men fluential, which was called style con originally. And I reached out to Antonio

00:58:48.600 Centeno and Aaron Marino. They're actually friends of mine now. Didn't know who they were. Just

00:58:51.920 followed him. Liked what they did. Reached out to him. And I talked to Antonio on the phone. I said,

00:58:55.660 Hey, I'd like to come to your event. And I'd like to speak at the event. And he said, he laughed.

00:58:59.400 He's like, no, because he didn't know who I was. And he was right. Of course, you know,

00:59:05.260 but why wouldn't I have the balls to ask that? Why wouldn't you do that? Well, hold on.

00:59:12.640 Lost my earbud. So he said, but I'll tell you what, you come to the event, you introduce yourself,

00:59:17.760 let's form a connection. Let's see what we can do. And then I went on to speak at, it was either

00:59:21.820 three or four of the, of that event every year thereafter for three or four years, because I

00:59:27.140 asserted myself. It wasn't his responsibility to find order of man, this fledgling little stupid

00:59:32.600 men's thing. It was my responsibility to assert myself. Okay. That's number one. Number two,

00:59:40.000 this is, I think even more important, make your decisions and be comfortable with them.

00:59:47.840 Okay. There's events that you can go to every day, all day, every weekend, every month. There's

00:59:54.220 always something, there's some outing, there's some event, there's some party, there's some

00:59:57.480 conference, there's some, this, there's some, that every day, all the time. And you have a

01:00:02.660 decision to make. Do I go to that thing or do I not? And there's things that I think, well,

01:00:07.480 I'd really like to go to that. And I don't for whatever reason. And I've learned to be okay with

01:00:12.900 my decisions. I'm not going to feel shitty. I'm not going to feel bad for not being there. And if I am,

01:00:18.240 then I'll make a better decision next year. But Hey, I made the decision to be here. And here's one

01:00:23.900 thing a lot of guys will do. They'll pawn their individual responsibility off on other people.

01:00:30.060 Case in point, they'll say, well, you know, I really would have liked to go to that event,

01:00:36.100 but my kid has a soccer game this weekend. Screw you asshole. You're going to blame that you

01:00:44.240 on your kid, on your own kid. How about you grow some balls? And instead you say, you know,

01:00:52.360 I'd really like to go to that conference, but my child's soccer game is very important.

01:00:56.320 So I won't be able to attend that thing because I'm going to be here with my son playing soccer.

01:01:02.240 That's how a man would say that.

01:01:04.680 Well, you know, guys, I'd really like to go hang out with you this weekend, but, uh, uh, you know,

01:01:10.420 my wife, she, she says I have to be right here around the house to work on projects.

01:01:14.280 You effing asshole grow a spine, grow a backbone, grow some balls. Hey guys, you know, I'd love to

01:01:22.520 come to you this weekend. I can't do it because I committed to helping my wife around the house,

01:01:25.900 but, uh, next week or next month, when you do it again, I'm going to clear the calendar. I'll be

01:01:29.580 there. That's how a man responds to it. Yeah. Instead of throwing your wife under the bus

01:01:33.820 and, uh, illustrate that she's so domineering that you don't get to do anything in your life

01:01:39.120 without her authorizing it first. Exactly. So make your decisions and then be happy with them

01:01:46.260 because also that's going to allow you to be present. Cause if you're bitching and moaning

01:01:50.300 about not being at the conference all weekend while your son's playing soccer and he's like

01:01:54.860 looking over the sideline and instead of being there at the game, you're on your phone and you're

01:01:58.540 like, Oh, and then when he's done with soccer, he scored two goals and he's like, dad, did you see

01:02:02.680 that? And you say, Oh, hold on, hold on. And he knows you're looking at the conference

01:02:06.220 that you wish you could be at. How do you think he's going to feel? Yeah. How do you think that

01:02:11.460 makes you a good father or just a good man in general? So make your decisions and then be happy

01:02:19.240 with them so that you can be present in whatever decision that you made. And if you don't like the

01:02:24.000 decision, make a different one next time, but this is the decision you made this time. Yeah. Maybe I

01:02:29.840 went a little too hard on that, but it is very, very important. This fear of missing out thing.

01:02:34.200 It's hard. I get it. I get it. I understand it. There's, there's some lessons here that need to

01:02:40.360 be learned for all of us. Yeah. Well, and one way to, when you're talking about, um, you know,

01:02:47.840 being good with your decision or feeling good about your decision, one of the things that comes to

01:02:51.700 mind is, you know, there's a price too, you know, for everyone that's running around, that's like,

01:02:57.460 Oh, I'm always involved. What's the price. Like, even if it's a good deed, there's a price to that

01:03:04.020 too. You know, you can, you can go out serving your neighborhood and neglect your family if you'd

01:03:10.140 like, but trust me, there's a price, right? So just be, be aware of what the price is so you can

01:03:17.080 make the proper decision. Yeah. Because sometimes you, you, it's okay. You should pay the price.

01:03:21.540 You should pay that. Yeah. But it's got to be intentional. It's got to be thoughtful. And,

01:03:26.080 and you say to yourself, yeah, I, I am willing to pay that price. Yeah. You know, I am willing to

01:03:30.640 be away from the family for this particular hunt, not all the hunts, but this one, yes. Not all the

01:03:36.420 conferences, but this one, yes, I would like to go to this one. And therefore I am going to miss

01:03:41.420 little Timmy's baseball game, but I'm going to make the other 12 games, but this one I'm not going

01:03:45.880 to make, because this is a choice that I am making. Yeah, totally. All right. One more question.

01:03:51.540 Yeah. Let's do it. Sanji grills. What is the best advice, uh, to give if you want to join the

01:03:57.880 military, but don't want to leave your family behind? I'm 24 years old, considering joining

01:04:02.620 the Canadian military, a lot of Canadian guys on this, but not sure if it's worth leaving the

01:04:07.400 family to going away for three years. Yeah. It's worth, it's your life. It's this, this is what we're

01:04:16.080 saying. That's the price. When I joined, when I joined the military, I left my, my sister and my

01:04:23.900 mother and friends and, and other opportunities and things I could have been doing for about four,

01:04:30.800 four and a half months. That's the price. Yeah. So say the very first sentence of that question again,

01:04:37.320 best advice to, to give if you want to join the military, but do not want to leave your family

01:04:44.500 behind. It's not possible. You want to join the military, but not leave your family. Like,

01:04:50.080 how do you see that working out? The advice is that's the price you're either willing to pay it

01:04:55.820 or you're not, but whatever decision you make again, that's the decision. Be happy with that decision.

01:05:02.140 And then don't blame if you decide to stick around because you want to be around your family. Don't

01:05:06.520 blame them that you didn't choose the military route. Totally. If you want to go into the military,

01:05:14.420 you know, don't, don't blame the military for not being around your family. That's a decision as a man

01:05:19.420 that you made. So my advice is if that is what you want to do, then you should do that. And you should

01:05:29.120 pay the price in order to have that experience, learn that lesson, follow that pursuit. By the

01:05:34.680 way, what do you think your family would want? I think they'd want it. Like they'd want to like

01:05:39.700 have you there forever and not chase and pursue your dreams and see the world and travel the country.

01:05:44.940 And sir, like you think that's what they would want? I don't think so. I mean, maybe there's a

01:05:49.480 percentage of people, but I don't, I don't think generally that's what your family would want.

01:05:53.660 Talk to them about it. Tell them, Hey guys, you know, here's my concerns. I don't want to leave you

01:05:58.540 guys. You know, I'm, I'm worried about grandma. She's sick. Or, you know, I I'm worried about,

01:06:02.840 you know, a little brother because he's all, him and I have been together and like, these are my

01:06:06.540 concerns and I want to go do this. You, they're going to say, we want you to chase this. We want

01:06:12.800 you to pursue this. And that might give you some comfort. Yeah. And your advice earlier around the

01:06:19.100 firefighter and the police station, uh, police officer, you know, trying to make that decision,

01:06:23.220 you know, going 20 years ahead of now and looking back and what decision do you wish you would make?

01:06:29.160 You know, that's a great strategy, maybe even for this guy here. Right. It's the, this is,

01:06:34.880 this goes back. This is good. I mean, cause it falls right in line with what we're talking about.

01:06:38.360 Decision-making, you know, it's, it's hard. If it wasn't hard, it wouldn't be a decision.

01:06:44.600 You'd have already made it and you wouldn't be asking about it, but it's hard because both options

01:06:49.440 present valid points. You need to communicate with them and you need to be willing to pay the price.

01:06:56.340 You know, you need to know what the price is and be willing to pay it regardless of what you choose.

01:07:00.860 There's a price. You have to be willing to pay it and then live with it and deal with it and know

01:07:04.120 that it was you. So don't blame other people or other situations for you making your own decisions

01:07:07.960 as a man. Yeah. And you not making a decision is making a decision. It's staying with your family.

01:07:14.020 You don't make a decision. You're staying with your family. That's the decision. You can call it

01:07:17.620 whatever you want, but that's the decision you made. Yeah, sure. Cool. Great questions today.

01:07:23.860 Yeah. So now I'm, I'm, I'm supporting the OG, uh, see that man. Sure. Thinking about bringing

01:07:30.260 some of those back. Cause I actually kind of like that. I like it. I keep it. I wear it. It actually

01:07:36.440 looks like it's a pretty good condition. That's what I was going to say. Like it's in pretty good

01:07:39.920 condition. I don't wear it very often. You don't roll with that thing. No. Um, however, we do have some

01:07:46.460 more shirts, uh, store.orderofman.com design these, your mind or, uh, what's the new shirts

01:07:53.980 make, make a way, find, I will either find a way, find a way one. Yeah. I like it. And some tank tops

01:08:01.320 as well. Yeah. We have this one in maroon and black with white. And then we have our new like raw edge

01:08:07.160 tank tops, which are really cool. So you can work out and go to the beach, hang around in the house

01:08:11.520 and look good while you're doing it. Good. So you can find that swag and much more at

01:08:17.280 store.orderofman.com. And as always to learn more about the iron council and to join us in

01:08:23.640 our exclusive brotherhood, go to orderofman.com slash iron council. As always connect with Mr.

01:08:31.000 Mickler on the Insta at Ryan Mickler. That's right. Do it. All right, guys. Thanks for your questions.

01:08:37.240 Great questions today. Gave us a chance to get fired up. I think Kip's feeling a little better.

01:08:40.660 Yeah. Yep. We got them through that. Thank you guys for helping me do that. Cause I,

01:08:45.240 I knew, I knew Kip too. Come on now. I knew as soon as I got on the call with you,

01:08:50.120 I was looking at my emails. He's like, what's wrong with you? Yeah. I was looking at my emails.

01:08:54.780 I wasn't even looking at you. I was looking at my emails and just the way you said, Hey,

01:08:58.480 or hi or whatever. It was like something, something I can't, I can't hide it, man. I wear my emotions on

01:09:04.880 my sleeves. It's, it's pretty obvious when I'm, you know, off. I actually like that because well,

01:09:12.520 and I'm, my wife accuses me of that all the time too. It's like, like if we're out in public and

01:09:17.900 she's like, why are you, why are you being such a jerk? I'm like, I'm not being a jerk. I'm just

01:09:20.860 sitting here. She's like, yeah, but your face, like the way you're looking at people. What's wrong

01:09:25.100 with your face? Yeah. Like at a restaurant, she's like, why are you mad? I'm like, I'm not mad. She's

01:09:30.220 like, you were looking at the waitress. So mean. I'm like, I was just looking at her,

01:09:33.960 but she knows man. Cause I wear it right on there on my expressions and everything else.

01:09:39.120 So anyways, I think Kim's feeling better guys. Appreciate you. Uh, we'll be back. We just

01:09:44.560 released the episode with, uh, John Eldridge, which was yesterday. And then of course we'll

01:09:49.260 be back on, uh, on Friday for the Friday field notes, but until then go out there, take action,

01:09:53.860 become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:09:58.080 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:10:02.520 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Make Better Decisions, Restore Your Integrity, and Knowing if She's the "One" ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

Episode Stats

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript