Order of Man - Making Decisions as a Man, Fault Versus Responsibility, and Casting Visions When All is Dark ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:06.000 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.420 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.

00:00:15.460 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.

00:00:19.680 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:24.960 Kip, what's up, man? Great to see you today. Looks like you got a new, uh, fresh new haircut there.

00:00:29.120 And a beard trim. You're looking sharp. Yeah. Yeah. Clean up. Although it was funny.

00:00:35.440 Literally within a day, someone's like, Kip needs to grow a beard. I'm like, oh my gosh.

00:00:40.180 Just because I trimmed it up too much.

00:00:43.820 Everyone's a critic.

00:00:45.360 I think that what you have on your face right there is, is my, you know, two o'clock shadow.

00:00:50.400 You know, and as much as I would like.

00:00:54.600 Hold on. Hold on. You're getting some, I think you're getting some weird feedback again. Is it?

00:00:59.120 Picking up the wrong mic? Nope. I got the right mic.

00:01:02.540 Okay. There it goes. Yeah. No, you're good. You're good.

00:01:05.620 Okay. It just, it was rough there for a second. I almost blew out my eardrum. So

00:01:09.740 which is because of my masculine voice.

00:01:13.300 That's what it is. That's exactly. All right. Proceed. You were about to say something

00:01:16.720 very insightful. I'm sure.

00:01:18.140 Well, it wasn't actually, I was just saying that as much as I, I don't know, I'm not as hairy as

00:01:26.060 some guys. And as I get older, I'm like, I'm actually grateful because I am too lazy to have

00:01:32.240 to manage a lot of hair growth all the time. So I've accepted my lot of thinner facial hair and

00:01:39.700 I'm grateful for it. So thank you, mom. Yeah. I'm one of those hairy guys that just has always had

00:01:44.980 to deal with it. So it is what it is. Yeah. Eighth grade. You're shaven. Yeah. That's right.

00:01:50.660 Yeah. I mean, even my son, my oldest, he's got like hair on his armpits and a little happy trail

00:01:56.260 going on. I'm like, Holy cow. He's a little mustache in the, in the, in the right light on

00:02:01.700 his upper lip. I'm like, dang, this guy's killing it. Not kid anymore. Holy cow.

00:02:08.080 Yeah. Well, yeah. I was just going to say, I love how shaving is like a little bit of a rites of

00:02:16.780 passage. Do you remember doing like shaving prematurely as a kid where you're like, I don't

00:02:21.680 really shave anyway. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I didn't have my, my dad wasn't around to teach me. So I

00:02:28.560 remember my mom showing me how to shave my face. So that was kind of even now, I mean, it was like,

00:02:34.060 she had to do what she had to do, but even now I'm like, Oh man, that's something that would have

00:02:37.960 been really cool. So I've already had that lesson with Brecken just cause he's pretty close to me.

00:02:43.200 He doesn't really need to, but he's pretty close actually. So, yeah. And it's pretty nasty when they

00:02:47.960 get like random gross hairs, you know what I mean? Yeah. And they think it's cool. That's the funny

00:02:53.920 thing. They think it's cool. It's like, look at my mustache. I'm like, don't brag about that.

00:02:58.060 Like shave that off. Trust me. You don't want that right now. So yeah. Good tip. I got to tell

00:03:05.280 you, I'm nursing a, um, a knee issue, by the way, similar to what you were nursing several months ago.

00:03:12.320 There's a little bit of happiness that entered my soul when you're like, I hurt my knee. I'm like,

00:03:16.460 good. I know. Yeah. I, um, it hurt. It popped. Yeah. Knee bar hill hook or no, I was inside

00:03:27.600 control. I don't know why he did it. Bless his heart. Um, and pulled his, pulled your ankle

00:03:32.720 towards him, but like, didn't do it. Like, like jerked it. I'm like, really? Why? And just jerked

00:03:41.920 on his pop. And I'm like, Oh, just rolled over in agony and laid there for about two minutes. And I'm

00:03:48.780 like, all right, I think it's okay. Let's keep training. He's like, you sure? I'm like, yeah,

00:03:52.040 let's keep training. So I kept training and it felt pretty good, but that was the adrenaline

00:03:57.560 and everything else going. And then I got done. Yeah. And I felt it from my calf all the way up

00:04:04.520 into my ass. And I'm like, Oh, this is a problem. Like if it was just isolated, I would have thought, 0.99

00:04:09.800 okay, it's just a little sore, but I felt it in my entire leg. I'm like, Oh, this is a problem,

00:04:14.400 but I don't know. We'll see. I'm going to training tonight. We'll see how, we'll see how it goes.

00:04:19.120 Did you at least smash him or anything during that? Uh, Hey, let's keep, that's the way you wanted

00:04:24.020 to keep going. You're like, let's keep going. I choked him out. I knee barred him and did it

00:04:28.940 right back to him. No, I heel hooked him. No, I didn't do that. Um, no, I don't know. We just,

00:04:36.180 we just kept training. It was fine. It is. I, that brace I'm telling you, the one I sent you

00:04:41.480 check that out. That thing's pretty, I mean, it's expensive, but, um, I've been wearing that and I

00:04:46.960 don't feel any pain in my knee. You wear it when you train or what? Yeah. Yeah. But it has like

00:04:53.260 metal brackets down the sides, but it keeps them covered in padding. So you're not, you know what

00:04:57.800 I mean? Driving a metal rod into someone's face or hip or whatever. That's what I want. I want like

00:05:02.780 spikes on it, but, uh, it works pretty good. Prevents me from moving my, my turning my knee sideways.

00:05:11.020 Yeah. Right. So yeah. Well, other than that, all is good, man. Book's almost done. Uh,

00:05:17.700 saw that. Yeah. Things are good. Podcast downloads are numb are up. So it's all good.

00:05:21.980 Well, let's get into some questions, man. Yeah, for sure. So we're founding, we're, uh,

00:05:26.560 fielding questions from the foundry, uh, which is the platform that the iron council uses our

00:05:32.260 exclusive brotherhood to learn more about the iron council, go to order of man.com

00:05:35.620 slash iron council. You can sign up for a newsletter, but just so you guys know,

00:05:40.060 not currently opening and we'll have probably an opening later March, mid March, possibly.

00:05:47.300 Yeah. Beginning or middle of March, it'll open back up. So make sure you're getting notified on

00:05:51.320 that. Cause those will go quick. Those spots will go quick. Yeah. They went really fast this last time.

00:05:56.560 So, all right. Cordell Neely, I'm 26 year old. I am planning on taking action in 2022 and finally

00:06:03.700 moved to a new state by myself. Can you elaborate on any experiences you might have had moving from Utah

00:06:09.220 to Maine in regards to preparing and dealing with family members or friends unsupportive of the move

00:06:14.640 multiple States away? Um, I don't, I don't look, that's an easy one. That's an easy one to answer.

00:06:21.100 It's that it's your life. Like this is a weird thing. I feel like generally a lot of people believe

00:06:28.440 that they need to be supported in order to move forward with something, or they need the praises

00:06:32.540 and the accolades and the approval in order to progress down their own personal path. And although

00:06:38.080 it would be nice to have, you definitely want people who are supportive of what you're doing.

00:06:42.120 It isn't a prerequisite for moving forward in what you think it is effective way. So as a 26 year old

00:06:48.640 man, come on now, like people, there's going to be people are supportive. There's going to be people

00:06:53.980 who are not, there's going to be others who are indifferent. And so what, what they think of

00:06:58.920 what you're doing is irrelevant. The only people it matters to is you and anybody that you've

00:07:04.860 committed to. So your wife, for example, your children, you know, I would definitely take my

00:07:09.460 wife's approval into consideration as I consider moving her across the country. You know, that might 1.00

00:07:15.160 be something you'd want to do because you've made that commitment, but I haven't made a commitment

00:07:20.100 to my mother for her to approve everything I do. I haven't made a commitment to my friends to just

00:07:26.060 perpetually just be there forever. So they're comfortable with the way I choose to live my

00:07:31.240 life. So the best thing you can do is get over it and live your life, do what you know, you need

00:07:36.560 to be doing, look for the good work hard and that's it. And then you just let the chips fall where they

00:07:41.620 may. What other people think of what I'm doing is largely irrelevant with the caveat. Again, I say

00:07:47.400 this caveat, the people that are impacted by the decisions I'm making. Yeah. Because I'm not the

00:07:52.840 zero Fs kind of mentality where it's like, I don't care what any, I've never been that. There are

00:07:58.100 people I care about what they think, even mentors who I'm like, okay, well, what do you think? And I

00:08:03.000 would take what they say into consideration, but no, I don't need people's approval to make my own

00:08:08.740 decisions as a man. Copy. Drew Lewis, Ryan, if you were asked what three key elements and experiences

00:08:16.800 are most effective and consistent in the transformational development from the state of

00:08:21.540 immature, masculine to the mature, masculine, what would they be?

00:08:27.680 Uh, I would say personal responsibility, just, just owning your own decisions and your own choices.

00:08:36.960 Like even that last question lacked a little bit of personal responsibility when you're worried about

00:08:41.760 what other people think, because what you're doing essentially is you're pinning it on somebody else.

00:08:45.820 You're saying, well, you know, the reason I'm, I really hesitated about moving is because somebody

00:08:49.280 else didn't like it. Okay. But it's not their responsibility. It's your responsibility.

00:08:54.780 Uh, I know plenty of grown males. They're not acting like men who constantly blame other people

00:09:02.860 for their circumstances and their scenarios and their lack of opportunity and their lack of results

00:09:08.700 and their life, man, just start owning that stuff. Even to a, even to a fault. I would say that's bet

00:09:15.400 owning it to a fault is better than fault. The fault of not owning anything and making excuses for

00:09:21.640 everything in your life. So I w I would say personal responsibility.

00:09:27.020 That's it. I know he's asking for two or three. That's it. You know, when you own and then outside

00:09:34.380 of that, it's your ability. Here's one thing I would say is learning to become a producer rather

00:09:40.980 than a consumer. Yeah. And let me make sure I put this little caveat in here as well. All of us consume.

00:09:47.440 There's nothing wrong with being a consumer. Like I, I buy things. I, I require food for energy. Like I

00:09:56.120 consume we're consumptive creatures. That's not the problem. The problem is when you consume more than

00:10:02.600 you produce, that's what I mean by being a consumer and a producer is somebody who produces more than he

00:10:09.900 consumes. So when you think about children, young, young boys, young girls there, and I'm not talking

00:10:16.640 about the emotional worth for, for a parent or even their worth as a human being, but primarily

00:10:23.980 they're consumers, right? They, they require time, energy, attention, food, money. You got to put food

00:10:30.040 on the table, roof over their head. They got to go to sports. You got to drive them around. They're not,

00:10:34.080 they're not adding income to the house. They're not participating in the bills. They might have some

00:10:39.940 chores and things like that, but they're largely consumers. And we expect that because we're teaching

00:10:45.080 them how to be producers, but there comes a point in time where that, that scale needs to shift from

00:10:52.320 primarily consumption to primarily production. And I think that's a maturity conversation because I know

00:10:58.760 young men, my, my oldest is one of them. And of course I'm biased, but he is a young man who really

00:11:06.160 understands this concept and he tries to add maximum value where he can, he gets it even in some cases

00:11:14.240 more than a lot of grown males get it. So I think when you're talking about immaturity, it's about

00:11:19.560 personal responsibility and then moving from a consumer to a producer.

00:11:26.400 Zach Underhill, expecting our second child next month. From your experience, what are the biggest

00:11:32.600 challenges that present themselves when adding another child to the family? And how did you

00:11:37.280 navigate these challenges? I think for us, the biggest challenge was making sure that the previous

00:11:44.360 kids still get the time and attention they need from me and mom. I think that's really, really important

00:11:49.580 because it's easy to place all of your time and energy and attention and emphasis on, you know,

00:11:54.780 the newborn and to a degree it's needed, it's required. You know, they need physically more

00:12:00.880 resources talking about consuming versus producing. They need more of your resources than an older 1.00

00:12:07.160 child might. Um, so, so I would say depending on, did he say how old his first was? You didn't.

00:12:15.540 I would say depending on, on the age, of course, but let's just say maybe what three to five, I would

00:12:20.540 say on average, if I had to guess, I'd probably say kids three to five, like still take time

00:12:26.340 individually. Hey, we're going to go out and we're going to go to dairy queen and get a blizzard

00:12:30.680 or we're just, you and I, just you and me, like mom's going to hang out here and take a nap with

00:12:34.800 the baby, but you and me, we're going to go to the park and hang out. And by the way,

00:12:38.820 sometimes that's actually all you can do. It's good for the kid, but you know who else it's good for

00:12:43.580 mom, right? Because you can't breastfeed the baby contrary to popular belief. Like you can't do all 0.96

00:12:53.040 the things that the baby needs, but what you can do is take little Timmy or little Susie out,

00:12:59.660 spend some good quality time with them. So mom can really rest and get some, some time with the 0.98

00:13:06.820 newborn, which is I think going to be really helpful for her as well. But yeah, the best thing

00:13:11.860 you can do is just give, give your first the time and attention that they're naturally going to lose

00:13:17.600 when you bring a new baby into the house. For sure. I was, I was talking with some friends last

00:13:23.000 week and I don't know, I was getting on the topic of the importance of consistency and structure for

00:13:30.860 children. And it was really, and I was suggesting that I think it's critical for kids to have

00:13:37.780 consistent structure because for them, the unknown, their unknowns are different than our adult unknowns,

00:13:45.820 right? And, and as adults, the unknown, the unplanned ends up becoming, those are adult

00:13:51.980 versions of stress, right? And for a kid, it's the same thing, but their unknowns are slightly

00:13:58.080 different. And I, and I think bringing a new child into the family is an unknown. And so I think there's

00:14:03.660 some probably proactive approach that you can take about how this is going to go and, and what's your,

00:14:09.840 your existing child's relationship and what role does he play or she play in the new baby? And

00:14:15.480 like really set a precedent ahead of time. So then that way they can have some comfort and stability

00:14:22.140 around what this means to have this baby join the family. You might be clear in your head,

00:14:27.160 but it's probably completely unclear to them. And, and you're shaking up the status quo,

00:14:33.160 right? By introducing a new kid. So I think there's some prep that you could do to really help in that

00:14:38.560 process too. Yeah. I like that. I agree. I think there's some, some exceptions to that. I'll explain what

00:14:44.620 I mean in a minute. But one thing you also led me to think was including your first child in the

00:14:52.100 process with the baby. Like, for example, I don't know whether your newborn is going to breastfeed

00:14:57.400 or not, but let's just say hypothetically that he or she is not, well, you can have your four-year-old

00:15:04.280 help mom feed the baby. Yeah. Right. If she's on a bottle or he's on a bottle and, and that gives 0.55

00:15:10.640 her an opportunity or help tuck the baby in, or, you know, like big brothers, big sisters,

00:15:15.720 they love that stuff until they get to like eight or nine years old and then they hate it.

00:15:19.360 Yeah. So you might as well take advantage of it right now, but if you can get big brother,

00:15:23.220 big sister involved in the process, they're going to feel more included and welcomed and an important

00:15:28.860 part. And they are an important part of the family. But what I was going to say with the exception to

00:15:34.680 consistency and structure is that I've seen a lot of parents who go overboard with it and they turn

00:15:42.080 into helicopter parenting parents and, and they coddle and they bubble wrap and they, and they

00:15:49.760 don't let their kids have any sort of challenge or adversity or hardship. Uh, I've, I've seen parents

00:15:56.440 who, you know, maybe all of us are spending time together for the week or the weekend, uh, or maybe at

00:16:01.540 the park for a day and then they leave. And it's like, well, why are you guys leaving? Oh, well,

00:16:05.840 the baby needs to take a nap. Like, I think the baby could take a nap an hour and a half later.

00:16:10.180 Like you're here spending time with all of us. And, and it's just, it's, it gets a little bit

00:16:15.780 overbearing at, at points. So yeah, structure and stability, but also kids are resilient and they

00:16:23.380 need hardship and they need to be introduced within reason to some discomfort. So make sure you're not

00:16:28.420 stripping all of that away from them. And I don't think you're suggesting that, but let's know it

00:16:32.820 is, it does happen. It does happen. Yeah. And well, and, and right in your example, it's like,

00:16:37.860 it's the, uh, it's for me, it always seems like it's the first time parents they're, they're the

00:16:44.480 ones that are like, yeah, well, Timmy has a schedule. And then by the time, like two, three,

00:16:49.380 four comes along, they're just like, yeah, he's outside in the car, you know, everyone relax. I'm just

00:16:55.360 joking, but you know what I mean? It's like, you get so hands off by the time you have a couple

00:16:59.340 more down the pipe. Or I think like in that example, you are playing at the park. If you

00:17:04.180 have your fourth kid, you're like, I'm not, I'm not leaving to give him a nap. You look over and

00:17:09.400 he like fell asleep in, in the swing or something or in the dirt, you know, he's drooling in the dirt.

00:17:14.560 You're like, see, he's taking a nap on his own now. He's good. I remember with our, with,

00:17:20.760 with our first, you know, he, he had this really strange habit of eating rocks. Like he'd put rocks

00:17:26.460 in his mouth and, or he'd be on the carpet and he would see like, I don't know, cockroach or

00:17:32.480 something and like eat it. And, you know, as a first time parent, you're like, oh, and you're

00:17:36.920 like freaked out. And by the time you have, cause we have four, you know, he eats a cockroach. I'm

00:17:43.000 like, eh, it's protein. It's good for him. Like you just don't, or he's eating rocks. He'll poop them

00:17:49.640 out. Like it's fine. It's good. And it just does. It just matters less. Cause you realize,

00:17:56.220 you know, of course, within reason, they're pretty resilient little creatures.

00:18:00.560 Koa, he's our sixth, right? He's three right now for the last year, he eats the dog's food

00:18:06.320 all the time. And we're totally like, Bubby, that's gross. And that's it. Then he's like,

00:18:11.580 I like it. He's like, I like it. And we're like, all right, fine. Have at it. You're okay.

00:18:17.840 Yeah. He's down there all hands, all fours, like a dog. I'm like, nah, he's okay.

00:18:22.660 I think that's why it seems to me. The last child is always like the biggest handful. And I'm not

00:18:29.780 totally sure why that is. Maybe God like saves the ones that are a handful for the last because

00:18:35.540 he doesn't have to trick you. Well, no, I think he just knows he doesn't have to trick you into

00:18:39.560 having any more. You've already said you're done. So he's like, cool. I'll give you the, I'll give you

00:18:43.780 a hole on the last one. You're like, thanks. You give me the little angel, you know, on the first

00:18:49.160 one. So I have more. And then you give me the, the, the devil on the last one. Yeah. Or I don't

00:18:55.060 know, maybe it just has something to do with like, Hey, you're on your own pal, you know? And so they

00:18:59.480 just, they just like build this level of just disdain and resentment and resilience and like this

00:19:06.080 independence that the other kids weren't required to have.

00:19:10.140 When you learn as parent, like, I think the big thing is you learn to choose your battles

00:19:14.700 and, and your first kid, everything was the battle. Now it's like, yeah, no, I'll pick and

00:19:21.500 choose what I'm going to get mad about. That's true. That's true. Yeah. All right. What else?

00:19:27.160 All right. Justin, uh, gelsma, uh, what are you, what are you men currently listening to on podcasts

00:19:34.560 and or books that you're reading? We only listen to this podcast. So yeah. Is there,

00:19:40.400 is there other podcasts? I thought this was the only one that existed. Yeah. Yeah. Me too.

00:19:44.720 You know, actually I started listening to, I've been so consumed with writing the book. I haven't

00:19:50.160 read a whole lot admittedly, but I did start listening to, uh, 1984 the other day and that's

00:19:56.960 some crazy, crazy stuff. It is crazy. It's not that far-fetched either. That's the amazing,

00:20:02.180 not that far-fetched. It's not even amazing. It's quite disturbing. Yeah. The 1984, uh, you know,

00:20:09.740 as far as podcasts go, probably the same that you guys listened to. I listened to, um, I, I actually

00:20:15.740 listened to a lot of Rogan. Um, and I listened to Rogan because he's so good at what he does.

00:20:21.740 And, and I don't think people fully realize or appreciate it. Like they like his podcast

00:20:26.580 and they like his guests, but I don't appreciate his role. Yeah. Which is fine. I get it. Why would

00:20:34.080 they, you know, you're rooting out when you're, when you're listening. Yeah. It's like somebody

00:20:38.900 who watches UFC for the first time or MMA of any form. And they're like, this is stupid because 1.00

00:20:43.440 they're just rolling on the ground. Yeah. They're just like wrestling. You're like, no, 1.00

00:20:48.020 they're trying to hurt each other's technique. Yeah. Yeah. They want to see what they want to see is

00:20:53.060 they want to see them stand up and engage in kickboxing or Muay Thai. Like that's what they're

00:20:57.260 really looking for. And they get in the clinch or they get on the ground. They're like, this is

00:21:01.140 stupid. But somebody who knows it is like, what do you, this is the best fight of all time. What 1.00

00:21:06.540 are you talking about? You know? Totally. Totally. Um, so I listened to Rogan a lot because I'm not with

00:21:14.180 a, a crit, I was gonna say critical, not critical, analytical with an analytical ear. Like, oh,

00:21:19.660 how did he transition into that? How did he close out the interview? How did he start the

00:21:22.960 interview? How did he get somebody back on track that maybe it was DV deviated a little bit?

00:21:27.540 So that's pretty good. Um, you know, I listened to more like political commentary. So I listened to

00:21:34.440 a lot of Matt Walsh, Ben, Ben Shapiro. Uh, they have a podcast called morning wire, which is a nice

00:21:40.140 little intro to the day talks about three or five political or culturally charged issues. And it gives

00:21:46.140 a little report on them over 15 minutes. I listened to that one pretty much every day.

00:21:49.660 That's your news. Yeah. I mean, the same things you guys listen to, I'm sure.

00:21:55.560 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I won't even mention any podcasts. I think in the iron council,

00:22:00.480 we were wrapping up the confidence gap. So that's a recent book. Yep. Um, Robert green's book,

00:22:05.920 the laws of human nature. Um, my son read it first and he's like, dad, you got to read this book,

00:22:11.480 you know, and we all know Robert green. So, but that's actually a really good book. I've been really,

00:22:15.680 and then culture code is another book I just recently wrapped up. So I don't know. There

00:22:21.860 you go. Cool. Yep. All right. Brett Godfrey. How do you know that it's the right time to start dating

00:22:29.880 after a divorce? Yeah. I don't think you will know. How do you know?

00:22:35.580 Start before you get divorced, bro. If your marriage is easy, start now. Yeah. Might as

00:22:44.060 well see if there's anything better out there before you decide to throw in the towel on what

00:22:47.620 you have. Oh my gosh. We're all joking. We're joking. I know. Yeah. Almost have to say that

00:22:55.040 anymore. It seems like, uh, so here's what I would say is, I mean, you're asking the question,

00:22:59.700 maybe it's time to start dating, you know, but, but here's what I would be cautious of is try to

00:23:05.560 lower. I wouldn't say your standard of women. That's not what I'm saying, but try to lower 1.00

00:23:11.460 the expectation of where it would lead to. So don't lower your standards. That's not what I'm

00:23:17.600 saying, but lower the expectation of like the next woman you go on a date with, she's probably not 0.97

00:23:23.320 going to be your next wife and it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. Like just go have fun, enjoy the company of a 0.98

00:23:30.300 woman. Like I enjoy women's company, you know, not, not romantically, but you know, 0.98

00:23:35.520 there's something women bring to the table and that's nice. What and big and go back to dating, 1.00

00:23:40.520 which was what do you like, what you don't like, you know, and, and get back on that path of

00:23:46.140 determining what that is. Don't try to backfill the position of wife. Right. And I don't even know 0.96

00:23:54.780 if I would like really measure them against, okay, is this somebody I can marry? I think maybe just

00:24:01.380 enjoy a woman's company. And that's like the goal right now. Yeah. But, but I will say this,

00:24:07.760 don't neglect yourself. All right. Like if you're talking about dating women, I would say it should

00:24:13.660 be 95% attention on yourself right now. And 5% attention on another woman, like get your finances in 1.00

00:24:21.500 order, get your mind, right. Make sure your health is in check. Make sure work is going well. You're

00:24:27.840 doing your diet. You're doing your exercise. You're doing your, your meditation and your visualization.

00:24:32.700 You're planning for the future. Like get like all of that, get all of that locked in. And I think the

00:24:39.400 need or the desire, the wonder about when to start dating, I think that probably starts to resolve itself

00:24:46.180 as you start to get better with yourself, because I've never been through a divorce. I went through

00:24:52.440 that separation with my wife early in our marriage. Um, man, that was a hard time. And it was a, it was a,

00:24:58.840 it was the darkest time of my life. Uh, and so I had to get a lot of things right before I was ready for

00:25:05.060 like anything else dating. Like I didn't date women cause we were still married, but, um,

00:25:10.580 like work was struggling. My health was like, there was so much that was going wrong at the time.

00:25:16.940 And I just focused on those things I could control. Fortunately, my wife and I were able to reconcile.

00:25:22.760 I know that doesn't always work out of course, but you'll be better off if you do it that way.

00:25:27.960 Yeah. Would it work for me? That bitch. So, so Brett, Brett, here's the deal. You, you ready? 1.00

00:25:36.620 And you may not like this answer. So first your divorce is your fault.

00:25:42.760 And if you don't feel that way, figure out how it was and then fix whatever that was.

00:25:49.600 And, and then I say, you're, you're in a better position to be dating. I'm not, I don't think you

00:25:55.340 need to be perfect to start dating, but like, I literally had this conversation with a friend

00:26:00.020 last week and they're like, Oh, you know, they're asking like when they should get, when they should

00:26:04.780 start dating again, I'm like, well, has he like grown and evolved into a, like a better man?

00:26:10.080 Because he's already like in another relationship. Right. And they're like, Oh no, like he's the same

00:26:15.900 guy. And, and, and sometimes when we do that, we're like, Oh, so he thinks that this next woman,

00:26:22.060 it's going to magically just work out. And that nothing that he's bringing to the table

00:26:26.700 contributed to his first divorce. So I'm going to lean on more on the negative side is like,

00:26:31.880 are you the same man? And if you are, that's probably not going to work out well for you

00:26:36.680 because guess what? It didn't work out and you played a big part in it. So figure out what part

00:26:41.140 you played, sure that up and make sure that you're not falling into a committed relationship and putting

00:26:46.920 that on that other individual that like, Oh, because she's the right one. It's going to work

00:26:50.920 this time. Like you gotta, you gotta get clear on where you went wrong. Yeah. I think that's well said.

00:26:56.540 The only thing I would, I would change with what you said is I don't know that I would use the word

00:27:01.260 your fault. And instead I would use the word responsibility. Now look, it could maybe be your

00:27:07.920 fault. Like that, that actually could be true. Yeah. And so I'm not discounting that, but it

00:27:13.280 doesn't inherently mean it was your fault and it isn't 100% your fault, but it is 100% your

00:27:20.680 responsibility. Correct. So now, so I think fault kind of puts a period on the end of the thought,

00:27:29.320 like, Oh, that was my fault. It sucked. I messed up. And responsibility is a comma like that. Okay. 0.94

00:27:35.240 It didn't work out, but it is my responsibility. And so I'm going to do these things moving forward.

00:27:40.900 Yeah. And it might just be semantics. So use whatever word you want, but the point remains like

00:27:46.940 don't wallow in it, fix it. And that's what you said is you said, okay, now figure out how you can

00:27:53.140 become a better man so that you can improve yourself enough that when the next relationship takes place,

00:27:58.340 that it's going to be a different circumstance than it was this one.

00:28:03.080 Yeah, for sure. I'm hesitant to say this just because I feel that book feels, seems so

00:28:08.820 controversial. I'm interested in your thoughts on it, but I, what enters my mind when I read this

00:28:13.600 question, my bread is like, cause you probably read rational mail at the same time, but what's your take?

00:28:19.420 I mean, yeah, I look, I think having information is great. Um, but when you take one bit of information

00:28:28.660 and you turn it into doctrine, the Bible. Yeah. Yeah. Like, like the cannon, you know,

00:28:35.660 canonized word, it, it, it becomes a problem. Uh, and, and especially in the red pill and manosphere space,

00:28:45.540 because a lot of that comes from immaturity and a lot of it comes from hurt men who haven't learned

00:28:53.720 to deal with the pain they've encountered in a healthy way. So what I will say is that you're

00:29:01.340 going to find some good information in the rational mail and other books like that, but don't allow it

00:29:07.580 to become your soul doctrine. And I would say the same thing about anything that I've written almost

00:29:14.000 every book. Yeah. Right. I mean, sovereignty is, is the book, you know, and like I, you could take

00:29:19.960 that to the extreme and it can really create some real problems for you. So just, just be careful,

00:29:27.320 like read good stuff, get good information and take it all with a grain of salt and all within the

00:29:33.740 context of what you personally are dealing with. And then round it out with other practical advice and

00:29:39.680 timeless information that's available. Yeah. Matt Testerman with over 1000 members in the iron

00:29:49.760 council, where there come a time when inactive members will be asked to leave to make room for new

00:29:54.720 members, whether it be changes in membership requirements, participation requirements, physical

00:29:59.840 standards, and et cetera. I don't know that I would ask what, what was the word he used? Non, what did

00:30:07.520 he say about non-participating members or something? What was the word?

00:30:11.660 Or inactive. Would inactive members have membership requirements around participation

00:30:17.580 and physical standards, et cetera? No, probably not. And I'll tell you why

00:30:22.380 is because we have a lot of guys in the iron council who participate to varying degrees. So you might be

00:30:29.920 hyper engaged with a very powerful team of men. You're all working together. You're holding each

00:30:36.280 other accountable. But I'll tell you from experience that there's other men in the iron council that for

00:30:41.460 whatever the reason, they either can't be on a team or aren't interested in being on a team for a

00:30:46.540 myriad of reasons. And yet they're still engaged. You know, they'll show up on the Friday call.

00:30:51.120 They're still doing their battle plans, but they're not as engaged as you might be. And so do you call that

00:30:56.920 an inactive member or do you just call it somebody who's participating to a different degree than you are?

00:31:02.280 Yeah. So, I mean, you and I are good examples of that per se, right? Theoretically. Well,

00:31:09.460 we're on the leadership team, but it's not the same as what a standard member is on a battle team,

00:31:15.880 but it's not like we're not doing our battle plans. We're not actively participating in other ways.

00:31:20.460 Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I probably not, you know, as far as participation requirements,

00:31:26.120 I leave that to the teams, you know, each team has their own culture and their own standard.

00:31:29.760 And, and we work closely with our battle team leaders to ensure that they are doing what they

00:31:35.700 need to do individually. And also that they are capable of leading other men to improve the quality

00:31:43.560 of their lives. So that's a team thing. Now I have thought about elevated experiences, we'll call it,

00:31:51.440 where there are some requirements for not only participation, but your, your metrics, when it

00:31:59.520 comes to health, your metrics, when it comes to financial success. And we're, we're going to take

00:32:06.660 the cream of the crop and yes, there'll be other softer metrics that we'll have to weigh as we interview

00:32:14.080 specific people. And we start creating more of an elite unit of men who have proven that they're high

00:32:21.320 caliber, uh, and they're capable of leading themselves and others as well. So stay tuned for

00:32:27.180 that. I've been thinking about that over the past several months. I don't know why, but that stuff's

00:32:30.680 just, it's interesting. That stuff like gets me excited. Well, because you're a high caliber guy.

00:32:37.540 Yeah. When I think about it, like no, no one here, body fat needs to be a percentage. You know what

00:32:42.960 I mean? It's like, right. Cause you're a high caliber person. And so you want to be around high

00:32:47.760 caliber people and look, body fat. Isn't the only metric wealth isn't the only metric, but they're 0.91

00:32:54.180 pretty, they're indicators that you should pay attention to. And, and look, and we'll have guys

00:33:00.300 be like, well, that's not fair. I want to be part of that. Cool. Then get your stuff in check and you

00:33:04.920 can be part of it. And this is a thing in society. Like you're not supposed to exclude anybody.

00:33:11.660 You're not supposed to make anybody feel unwelcome or inferior or any of that stuff. And look, if we

00:33:18.600 put something like this together, it's not to exclude people. That's not the reason. Now it will

00:33:24.880 be exclusionary by design because it has to, because if it's inclusive to everybody, then it means

00:33:31.880 nothing. So it's the same thing with woman, you know, Matt Walsh, he's, he's, he's going viral

00:33:37.880 right now. Cause it's Dr. Phil thing. And he has a, he has a great point. He's like, what does woman 0.98

00:33:41.580 mean? And nobody can define it? No, like no, every, I can define it. Rational people can define what

00:33:49.840 woman means. Cause we all know it's a female. Uh, and, but the, but some people on the left just can't 1.00

00:33:56.840 define it or they won't, that's probably more accurate. Yeah. They won't define it. Well, okay.

00:34:01.480 If woman means nothing, then it, then it's open to everybody and it's subject to interpretation. 1.00

00:34:09.060 And it means nothing. If you can't define it, it means nothing. And then therefore, why are you

00:34:15.280 worried about, why would a man be worried about being a woman? You can't even define what it is. 0.94

00:34:20.380 Yeah. Well, yeah, but clothes, you know, clothes, those are, those are, uh, just social or, uh,

00:34:26.080 what do they call them? Social constructs. Okay. Then why are you so concerned with wearing

00:34:30.160 what we would call women's clothing? If they're just social constructs and you're trying to break 1.00

00:34:34.180 down traditional gender norms, why are you wearing girls' clothes to prove a point? 1.00

00:34:40.820 Yeah. If, if wearing clothes doesn't matter. Yeah. Or what the clothes you wear don't matter.

00:34:44.700 Or, or address. If you, if you're telling me, for example, that address is just a social construct,

00:34:50.240 which I actually can get behind. Sure. Because if, if you're, you know, in Scotland,

00:34:55.440 400 years ago, you were wearing a kilt. Yeah. Tonga. Exactly. You're wearing,

00:35:00.840 I don't know what they call it in Tonga, but you're wearing what, what we would call a skirt. 0.99

00:35:04.880 Lava lava. Okay. So yes, it is cultural. A hundred percent. It is like, I'm not disagreeing

00:35:10.620 with that, but what I'm saying is that if you think it's so irrelevant as to what we wear,

00:35:17.240 then why are you a man wearing a dress to prove that you're a woman, which is something that you

00:35:25.020 can't even define. That's where I get hung up. Yeah. Who knows how we got onto that tangent?

00:35:33.040 Oh, what was the, but yes, maybe stay tuned elite version. Oh yeah. Holy cow.

00:35:39.840 Way off track. No dresses allowed. Yeah. Unless you're Scottish or Tongan. Yeah. There might be 1.00

00:35:48.400 some other cultures in there. Travis Froome. How do you determine what your future vision looks like

00:35:54.400 while going through a separation? Seems to be difficult to figure out how to do so personally

00:36:00.220 when things are so uncertain with relationships with my wife and that having such a big role to play in it.

00:36:06.560 Just, just make, it's just a little better than what it is today. Yeah. That's it. Like for you to,

00:36:15.200 at the stage that you're going through in your life right now, for you to imagine, let's just throw

00:36:21.680 some concepts out there for you to imagine that you're happily married with another woman and you

00:36:28.760 guys are connected and you're intimate and you love each other and business is going well.

00:36:36.240 And you're making money hand over fist and you're going on experiences. And if you have kids through

00:36:42.900 this existing marriage, you have a deeply, deeply connected relationship with all of your kids.

00:36:48.880 I got to be honest, even from where I sit, that seems to me a pretty hard sell.

00:36:57.300 Like, I'm not sure how you sell yourself on that vision when you are where you are right now.

00:37:02.740 And that's hard. And now you see, you want to, but you can't, and I get why you can't.

00:37:10.540 And then you start to feel down on yourself because you know, you're not doing it right.

00:37:14.020 Quote unquote, doing it right. Just cast a little bit out into the future. Hey, you know what?

00:37:20.960 I'm going to get through this and it's hard right now, but I know over the coming months

00:37:27.280 in the next 12 months or so that I'm going to come to terms with this. I'm going to try to be

00:37:33.900 amicable in this. I'm going to be as connected with my kids as possible. And so you just cast

00:37:40.240 to where you can see a little bit further than, than where you're comfortable or where you're at

00:37:45.960 right now. And then when you get to that point, you cast a little further and a little further and a

00:37:50.240 little further. And as your life starts to change and improve and get better. And now maybe

00:37:54.980 you're interested in another woman, you know, you cast that vision further because you're more

00:37:59.940 capable of, of mentally and emotionally doing it. You just can't do it right now. So don't get hung

00:38:05.760 up on like, I need to cast my vision of the perfect life. No, just be a little better than today,

00:38:11.500 that tomorrow you're going to have maybe some new strategies for coping with the reality of your

00:38:18.140 situation. And so maybe you pick up jujitsu, maybe you go weight train, maybe you decide to put

00:38:25.020 together a group of men who meets every Saturday morning for you know, an F3 or whatever. I don't

00:38:33.280 know, whatever your thing is golf, golf, hit the driving range or hit the links. And you just cast

00:38:38.320 it a little further than where it is now, knowing that it will improve down the road.

00:38:43.040 Yeah. I mean, obviously run, you can relate to this. I mean, Travis, super tough scenario,

00:38:51.120 right? I remember when, uh, my ex-wife and I, when we, when she first moved out, had an apartment

00:38:58.760 and we're in this separation, this limbo state of not knowing what we're doing and, or not knowing

00:39:04.560 how she might react. I think the key thing, you know, at least a thought that comes to mind that I

00:39:10.060 think is critical is Dylan reality. And the reality of it is you're separated. So what are you going

00:39:15.460 to do with what you got and put a vision around that? Not around like, well, I need to know if

00:39:21.960 she's in or out before I can execute. You're not going to know that you got to execute on what you

00:39:28.440 got in the moment. Right. And so if you're a hundred percent on board of like, Hey, I'm going to

00:39:32.940 improve myself and I'm going to show up still in a very powerful way in my relationship with her,

00:39:38.720 then to your point, cast that out. And that's your focus. And until that changes, you know,

00:39:45.540 keep, keep your course. Um, because I do feel like, and I was the same way. I really felt uneasy

00:39:51.340 with the uncertainty of it. And I felt like I couldn't, I couldn't progress without knowing

00:39:56.460 what we were, what was going to happen. And unfortunately that might take a while and you

00:40:02.400 don't want to be in that kind of limbo state where you're not progressing in a positive way and showing

00:40:06.160 up in a positive way and putting that back on her. Right. You decide how are you going to show up in

00:40:11.440 spite of the circumstances? What kind of man are you going to be focused on that? Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

00:40:18.220 I, I look at it, imagine this, you're, you're in a, in a dark forest and it's pitch black out. You know,

00:40:24.980 the clouds are covering up the moon and you can't see the stars and it's just dark. Right. But you've

00:40:31.100 got a flashlight. And so you turn that flashlight on, you look around, you get your bearings,

00:40:36.320 you find the trail and you cast that flashlight out. That flashlight is only going to go so far.

00:40:43.180 Right. And so you cast it out there and you, you see it. And so you start walking, you know, okay,

00:40:47.940 well, there's a path. I don't know where it leads. I don't know what it entirely, it looks like, but

00:40:51.800 that's the path. And you start walking. Okay. There's going to be a bend in the trail that you can't

00:40:56.980 see from where you are right now. But when you get to that bend in the trail and you've got your

00:41:01.060 flashlight and you turn that corner, you're going to see more than you saw today, but you only get to

00:41:07.840 see more if you're willing to take the next step. And the beautiful thing about it is that as you're

00:41:13.380 walking with your flashlight, every step you take your flashlight goes a step further. So the vision

00:41:21.460 gets further. You never catch up with your vision. So that, that might bring you some solace too.

00:41:26.620 Like the, the, I could be at the pinnacle of my achievement today and I will never catch up with

00:41:35.040 the vision I have for my future. So you look around and you see these guys who are hyper,

00:41:40.780 hyper successful. And even them, they haven't realized their ultimate vision because it's still

00:41:48.360 out there. You're never going to catch up with it, but you got to cast it and you got to be willing

00:41:52.680 to take the next few steps and then the next one and the next one and the next one.

00:41:56.620 Yeah. I like that. Bruce Lee. I recently came across a quote by Epic Epictetus about wintering

00:42:05.600 ourselves. We must, we must undergo a hard winter training and not rush into things for which we

00:42:10.900 have, we haven't prepared referring to Greek warriors, continuing to train in harsh winter

00:42:15.740 conditions to better prepare battles in spring, putting ourselves intentionally uncomfortable

00:42:20.720 situations in order to better prepare for harder times outside of jujitsu and cold water immersion.

00:42:27.700 Have you come across any other techniques that work for you?

00:42:30.700 Generally, I would say no. Generally. For me, it's physically related. It has to be physically

00:42:45.960 related for me. So yeah, jujitsu is part of that. You said outside of jujitsu, generally no, but yeah,

00:42:53.520 there's a thousand other things you can do other than jujitsu. You can do strength training.

00:42:57.700 What's uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. So again, strength training, um, you know, maybe running

00:43:04.600 a marathon, uh, or just learning to run in general. Maybe it's, uh, some sort of a relay

00:43:10.980 race or learning to bike or swim, like the things that I know you've done, uh, or you want

00:43:16.640 to hike, uh, a certain peak in your area of where you live. Like to me, it's gotta be physically

00:43:22.360 related. Cause I think for men generally, maybe more so our physical growth and our mental and

00:43:28.440 emotional growth are inextricably connected. Like they are, they are so deeply connected that

00:43:35.520 our physical suffering can trigger mental and emotional development. And so I find it through

00:43:45.720 jujitsu, but you could find it on the mountain. You could find it hiking. You could find it in

00:43:49.080 isolation, but yeah, physically I think is the best way for men. I wish I had a better

00:43:53.660 answer for you, but that's it. Yeah. I mean, even if you think about public speaking, Ryan,

00:43:59.640 it's kind of a physical element too, even with that, like if, if I was afraid of public speaking

00:44:04.520 and I signed up to present something in front of a bunch of people, like I could do that in

00:44:09.160 my mind, but that's a different story than walking up on that stage and going, okay, I'm,

00:44:15.180 I'm confronting something that, that causes a lot of uncomfort here. Right. And so I, I, I mean,

00:44:21.480 maybe Bruce, one of the ways you do this is what are those areas that you're uncomfortable,

00:44:25.100 right? You're uncomfortable getting punched in the face. Sign up for martial art. See what that

00:44:31.120 feels like. Yeah. If it's public speaking, go to Toastmasters, like figure out where you're

00:44:37.620 uncomfortable, what you're avoiding and maybe perhaps go after it with reason.

00:44:42.340 Yeah. I think that's a good, I think that's a good point. That's a good indicator is if it's

00:44:45.520 and look, I'm not saying that anything that is uncomfortable, you should do. Cause if it has

00:44:51.100 no meaning for you, then like, why I'm not telling you to go like, go, go beat yourself up for no

00:44:57.720 reason. That's silly. But if there's something that sounds meaningful and important to you, 0.97

00:45:04.080 then yeah, I think being uncomfortable or having some discomfort over it is a good enough reason to

00:45:11.240 pursue it.

00:45:12.340 Yeah. Jeff fluid. I have someone in my life whose actions are not always consistent with what he

00:45:19.980 says he values when with a smaller, more familiar group, he holds true to his values when interacting

00:45:27.440 with a wider group. He does not. Do I just accept this is who he is or do I try to help him course

00:45:34.420 correct? If so, how?

00:45:35.640 Oh, I would try to help course. Correct.

00:45:40.780 Like he's a friend. Is it a friend or a family member? Did he say?

00:45:45.520 Someone in his life. So I would assume that, but yeah, it's a, it's a friend or a family member.

00:45:49.920 If it's not, I mean, maybe you're going to, it's less important that you do, but if it's a friend,

00:45:53.960 like, why wouldn't you do that now there's a way to do it and there's a way not to do it,

00:46:00.020 but if it's a friend, absolutely you should. And so one, one thing is obviously be an example.

00:46:05.860 That's kind of the, the primary answer, you know, being at being an example, but let's just say you

00:46:10.660 have that checked off. You are already being an example. I think you probably should talk to him

00:46:15.620 depending again, this depends on your relationship with this person, but I don't, I don't think it's

00:46:22.020 too much of a stretch for you to go say, Hey, you know, Kip, um, I I've, I've noticed a few things

00:46:27.580 and man, I love you and I want you to win and I want you to thrive and succeed. And I feel, I feel

00:46:32.500 compelled to give you a little bit of feedback that I think might help you. Are you, are you open to

00:46:38.400 that? If I sense any sort of hesitancy, I probably wouldn't share it. Like if you're like, um, you know,

00:46:45.400 but if you said, yeah, I'm open to that, I'd be like, okay. And I would, I would try to be as

00:46:49.340 tactful as possible, but yeah, I think if you're a friend, you have a responsibility to, to friend

00:46:55.120 somebody, which means that you're going to have to do some things that aren't always comfortable

00:46:59.100 and aren't always safe. And part of that means that if a friend's struggling, then you need to

00:47:04.220 bring it up. Now, if, if you bring it up and he continues to do it, okay, well, like you've done

00:47:11.440 what you can do and then you got to let it ride from there. You don't need to keep beating it up.

00:47:15.400 You don't need to keep bringing it up over and over again. And at that point I would say, okay,

00:47:19.100 well, this is just the way it is. And until he asked for my help, um, or he's struggling,

00:47:24.500 like really struggling thing, I'm just not going to step in. And, but I think the first course of

00:47:30.120 action is to address it. Yeah. A hundred percent. Wouldn't you say?

00:47:35.680 Totally. And I do think, let me ask you this, Ryan.

00:47:39.480 If I were, I think it's different if I was annoyed by you. So, so if you were showing up a

00:47:49.320 certain way and it's pissing me off, that's different. That's a different strategy than if

00:47:55.840 I'm like, man, you know, I, Ryan, I see the potential man, but you're shooting yourself in

00:48:00.260 the heel. You know what I mean? And I want to help you that has more genuine to it. The other one might

00:48:05.240 just be, you're being a victim and you're being easily triggered by someone else. And you want to

00:48:09.500 make them wrong for the way they're showing up. That's different. And I want to be really clear

00:48:14.360 on that. Right. But if it's coming from a position of like, you know, I had a conversation with someone

00:48:20.120 last week about, I had a really difficult conversation for an hour and a half with someone

00:48:23.900 literally last week about this very kind of this thing, like, dude, you're, you're doing okay.

00:48:29.200 Right. I'm not criticizing you, but your potential is over here. And I think you're kind of shooting

00:48:36.200 yourself in the foot because you're not keeping up with your commitments. Right. And, and how can I

00:48:41.320 help? Like, it was really from a genuine place of like, how do I help you level up so you could take

00:48:46.800 advantage of more opportunities and growth, but it wasn't from a, from a position of me being frustrated

00:48:53.460 or annoyed. And those are two different things. Yeah. I think, I think that's well said. You,

00:48:59.260 you really do have to evaluate your motives. If you're just frustrated, deal with it or move along

00:49:05.540 or don't spend time with that person. But if you care about somebody, then there's an, there's,

00:49:11.160 there's, I was just writing on this idea in the book. If you care about somebody, then that means

00:49:17.160 you want to serve that person. And in order to serve another person, there has to be an element

00:49:24.300 of sacrifice. You can't serve. If there's no sacrifice, it's not service. Yeah. If you're

00:49:30.400 not sacrificing something. So in this case, if you care about somebody enough that you want to serve

00:49:35.720 them, then the sacrifice is your own discomfort. And that's probably really why you'd even question

00:49:43.420 whether or not to have the conversation, you know, the guy needs it. You know, it'd really help if

00:49:48.600 he implemented your advice. Okay. He, you know, he's going to be uncomfortable to check. We already

00:49:54.020 got that, but are you more worried about your own sense of security than you are about his wellbeing?

00:50:01.060 Because if you are, you won't do it. Right. Like, ah, and we say, here's what we say. We say like,

00:50:07.520 I don't want to put like that person in uncomfortable position. No, I don't think so. I think you don't

00:50:12.280 want you to be in an uncomfortable situation by him being uncomfortable. Yeah. Or him being pissed

00:50:20.760 or upset or whatever. So the motive is you. So again, if you're really wanting to serve somebody,

00:50:27.900 there's a sacrifice, there's a price to be paid. And this case it's discomfort or the sacrifice is

00:50:34.840 your own comfort. Yeah. And the risk of losing a friend. Like that's another thing that could happen

00:50:41.840 actually. You know, and I've seen that like a friend goes and approaches somebody and he's like,

00:50:46.700 Hey man, I really care about you. And I just got to put this out there and they've lost friendships.

00:50:52.320 That's a real risk, but that's the price that needs to be paid. If you really are a friend,

00:50:58.220 if not just be an acquaintance and that's good enough, but a friend is something deeper.

00:51:02.120 And what's fun about this or related to this, and it's kind of a fun conversation I was having with

00:51:09.120 one of my employees last week about having difficult conversations and coming across wrong.

00:51:15.420 And, and I suggested to them that when you get the mindset, right, you'll come across correctly.

00:51:23.380 In most cases, it's usually like, you know, when most people come across like arrogant or overly

00:51:31.580 critical, it's because they're probably arrogant, overly critical. So like you want to do a really

00:51:36.780 good job at helping someone get clear in your head first. And, and why are you truly wanting to help

00:51:43.780 them? And, and it gets a hell of a lot easier to approach it tactically and carefully because you

00:51:51.400 have the right mindset and it's going to come across genuine, your body language and everything.

00:51:57.160 That's a really good point. I mean, I've, I, here's how, you know, somebody is not as they'll

00:52:01.480 say these, well, I'm just telling the truth. I'm just calling it. Like I see it. Okay. That has

00:52:05.480 nothing to do with you wanting to help somebody. It has to do with you liking the sound of your own

00:52:11.320 voice, or you want to jack yourself off enough to feel good about what you're doing.

00:52:16.080 I'm just being honest.

00:52:18.000 Yeah.

00:52:18.440 I'm just being honest. Okay. That's not what we do when we help people. It's not about being

00:52:26.000 honest. It's about delivering a message in a way that will resonate. Yes. You want to be truthful

00:52:32.960 about it. Of course, but that's not the motive. The motive is not to be honest. The motive is I want

00:52:39.440 to serve this person and I'm going to use honesty to help that. Or I'm going to use a certain language

00:52:48.420 and I'm not going to use other language. And I'm going to worry about the inflection of my voice

00:52:53.520 and the tone and the volume, because I really want this message to land. Cause I think it'll

00:52:59.140 help somebody. And somebody that comes with the attitude of like, what's your problem, bro? I'm

00:53:03.240 just being truthful. I'm just calling it like it is. If you can't handle it, that has nothing to do

00:53:08.420 with the other person you say you're trying to serve. Yeah. Yeah. Colton Briner.

00:53:14.540 How do I control feeling like I'm better than almost everyone? You know what? We're going to

00:53:19.840 skip this question. Ryan's not going to be able to help you. Are you serious? Is that really?

00:53:24.620 No, I'm just joking. No, it is a legit question. I'm just playing. All right. Let me read it again.

00:53:31.520 How do I control feeling like I'm better than almost everyone I come in contact with? I'm currently

00:53:37.000 doing phase two, a live hard program and knocking out almost every quadrant on my battle plan. And I feel

00:53:43.540 myself pushing myself and growing towards my vision and goals. But when it comes to having

00:53:47.920 mundane conversations about sports on TV or how many beers to drink, I can't help, but feel like

00:53:54.440 why I even wasted my time talking to that person. I still have compassion and I want to see others

00:54:00.960 improve, but the ones that have shown no interest in, in it, I can't see the reason to even carry on a

00:54:08.000 worthless conversation. Thanks for all you guys do. You know what? We can't relate Colton. We can't

00:54:13.460 relate. I'm sure. Yeah. I mean, that's a ballsy question. Like I do, I do appreciate the honesty

00:54:20.800 about it for sure. Oh, and let's be honest. You feel the same way, Ryan. I mean, if you were totally

00:54:26.660 relate, if you didn't meet up and all the guys were like talking about the sports game about how,

00:54:32.280 you know, so-and-so got plastered the night before you'd be like, why am I hanging around 1.00

00:54:37.200 these idiots? Right. So, but I don't jump to like, I'm better than them when I hear that, 1.00

00:54:45.220 like that, like, so like if a guy is like, they're on a different path. Right. And I don't,

00:54:50.740 and I'm not interested in walking on that path. And so I don't think I'm better than them. I'm just

00:54:56.080 not interested in that path. Like it just, it's never crossed my mind that I'm like, these guys are

00:55:01.820 losers. Cause they talking about the Superbowl. I'm like, I don't care about, I don't even know 0.97

00:55:07.420 who's in this. I don't even know who's winning the Superbowl or who's in it. Or I don't even know

00:55:12.060 when it is like, cause I don't care about that. But like other guys, like, I think there's more

00:55:17.560 important things to worry about, but if a guy's like, yeah, I'm really worried about this particular

00:55:21.660 team that made it to the Superbowl, all the power to you, bro. I hope whatever you are looking

00:55:26.620 for in life is yours. And I genuinely mean that. Like, I hope you get what you want,

00:55:30.260 but I'm, I'm not better than them. So I think we need to be careful of casting our own 0.98

00:55:37.120 desires and ambitions on other people. I think this is kind of a stoic philosophy too, is like,

00:55:43.020 who am I to say that my path is your path? And people will tell me that all the time.

00:55:47.520 Ryan, you, somebody the other day is like, you're getting a little preachy on the blah, blah, blah,

00:55:52.180 on my Instagram or whatever. And I'm like preachy. Like, that's my job. My job is to tell you my

00:55:57.800 opinion. That's why you, that's why you follow me because I'm preachy. Yeah.

00:56:02.760 And if you don't like what I'm saying, then find somebody else who you like, what I'm saying.

00:56:07.540 It's, I just don't understand why we think that we need to project ourselves onto other people.

00:56:12.980 And this, I think requires a level of maturity to the point where you're like, I really don't care

00:56:19.540 at this point, what people do. I'm going to try to do everything I can to help them win and to give

00:56:27.380 them the tools and resources that I think will help to give them information, to bring guests on

00:56:31.860 the podcast. But I got to wash my hands after that. Like I can't, I can't wrap up my success in what you

00:56:41.040 do or you don't do. And it's arrogant to believe, to start to think like that anyways. Yeah. Like

00:56:47.960 just you get on the path that you want to get on, find other people who are already on that path.

00:56:54.080 And by the way, they could be ahead of you or behind you on the path. And there's value to both.

00:56:58.120 Like there's guys that I have in my circle who are further ahead of me on the path. And there's guys

00:57:03.340 who aren't as far as along as me on the path, but they're still my brothers because we're all on the

00:57:08.440 same path and I'm going to help them. And I'm going to have them help me. And it's just better

00:57:15.180 that way. Now, if somebody else is not on the path, I'm, I'm going to shake their hand. I'm going to

00:57:19.640 look them right in the eye. And I'm going to say, I wish you really well on the path. Here's where I'll

00:57:24.140 be. If you ever feel like you want to walk this path with me, let me know you are welcome anytime

00:57:31.280 and then be done. And that's okay. But there's, there's a little bitterness in this question.

00:57:37.160 Um, and I think maybe it's because I'm not trying to project here, but I think maybe it's because

00:57:44.220 you don't have the caliber of men in your corner that, that you should, and you're just hoping

00:57:49.760 all these other guys will, will become that. And they just might not, and they're not meeting your

00:57:56.300 expectation, right? It's like, no, you shouldn't be this way. And one thing I've always loved,

00:58:01.420 and I know it's a play on words and a thought process, but, but it's helped me deal with

00:58:06.660 difficult relationships of my life is that if I were Ryan and I was raised the right,

00:58:13.540 the way that Ryan was raised, I would make the same decisions he makes. And so there's some power

00:58:19.460 in just having some empathy, you know, it's like, you know what, I, everyone's on a different place

00:58:24.100 and, and they're on that place because a whole lot of different circumstances and who am I to

00:58:29.640 back to what you're saying? Who am I to say they should be any different right at this time in their

00:58:34.140 life and then be okay with where people are, you know? And, and what does that have to do with you

00:58:39.760 anyways? Like, so the, so the guy wants to talk, wants to drink beer and, you know, talk about the

00:58:46.300 weather or sports. What does that have to do with me? That doesn't impact my life. Like now, okay.

00:58:52.740 Now, if I had somebody in my life that I was relying on, like my wife wasn't elevating her life. 0.95

00:58:59.760 Okay. Those would be conversations we need to be having. And it's affecting you. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

00:59:04.600 But if some guy is like not on the same playing field as me or whatever, it's like, okay.

00:59:11.740 Yeah. Like that's it. Like, okay. I bet you're right, Ryan. And we're, we're projecting on you a

00:59:17.420 little bit. Um, it was Colton, but you know, maybe he doesn't have those guys in his life.

00:59:23.600 Right. And he's, he's got to get tired. You know, it's like, I get that. I can definitely

00:59:27.700 understand that people that's on the same path as me and it's getting old. Um, you just need to find

00:59:33.140 those guys. So, so that way it's, you won't project on these guys as much. You're be as annoyed by

00:59:38.560 these other guys. Once you get, I mean, that's why I started the iron council. Yeah. Like I told you

00:59:43.880 guys, the reason I started because of what, of this question, like all the guys that I knew were

00:59:49.400 more interested in the parties and the, you know, hanging out on the weekend or where they're going

00:59:54.800 to Mexico or Lake power, whatever. They were so concerned with that. And they weren't concerned

01:00:00.740 with the things I was concerned with. And it was frustrating. That's a frustrating thing. So then I

01:00:05.880 started to make relationships with people who were on a different path and that became less

01:00:10.600 important to me, what other people did or how they spent their time. In fact, some of those,

01:00:15.820 some of those people are still my friends because they've, they've changed their life and they've

01:00:21.120 gotten on another path, you know, might've taken a different route than it took me, but they're on

01:00:25.880 that path now. And, you know, we still spend time together. We still talk and have conversations,

01:00:30.840 but like, I don't, you, you got to find those people and you got to become that kind of man and you

01:00:35.960 got to go where those guys are. And then you got to add a value into their lives. And that's how you

01:00:39.680 become friends with these types of people. Totally. Yeah. And if you want your mind really

01:00:43.940 blown, just realize that Ryan wanted friends because he had none and somehow got a thousand

01:00:50.820 friends willing to pay him to be his, to be my friend. Who pulls that shit off? Right? Like 1.00

01:00:56.300 that's awesome. That's hilarious. I haven't thought about it like that, but that's actually really

01:01:01.780 paid friend membership for the guy who had no friends, you know, that's right.

01:01:06.340 That's quite impressive. That's funny, man. That's really funny. All right. What else we

01:01:13.660 got? Let's take a couple more. Okay. One more. I got a jet after this one, if that's okay. So John,

01:01:19.580 John, he's like, he even gave me the pronunciation. I saw that pronunciation of the Jenkinson. All right.

01:01:27.140 John Jenkinson. The area I struggle with is building meaningful, intentional relationship

01:01:33.480 and friendships with other people in my community. My observations are that there, that they, that there

01:01:38.900 are stages we experience as we get older, where there are friendships we develop due to, uh, due to

01:01:46.540 when our kids were younger with other adults, as they get into their teens and we lose those

01:01:52.320 connections. It doesn't help that I've been a loner most of my life and cautious of making new friends

01:01:58.200 relationships as I have inherent, uh, skepticism or, uh, of others due to underlying issues that I

01:02:05.660 left a mark on me. Sorry. I'm slaughtering this, John. The question is, how do I overcome this? I'm

01:02:10.620 51. I feel confident in who I am as a husband and a man, though. I feel I set in my own, in my ways in

01:02:17.240 many aspects. How do I overcome what, how do I overcome? He said he's a loner. He's the skepticism

01:02:25.740 of other people. Yeah. And maybe like, well, what it sounds like is we have friendships. Our kids

01:02:32.420 were like teenagers together. Then we lose those friendships because they don't have the common

01:02:37.240 kid thing anymore. He's older and he he's overly, um, cautious. It sounds like with establishing

01:02:44.920 relationships. How does he, how did I think really, how do I move on or generate better relationships as

01:02:52.200 he's older? Well, I, I, what I'm hearing when you say that is, do you even feel like you need these

01:02:57.480 relationships? It's true. Right. Because to me, the way I'm hearing this question is like, I'm good.

01:03:04.500 I'm, I'm sad. I'm comfortable. I'm, I'm, I got things dialed in. And so like, I almost to me sounds

01:03:11.940 like there's some sort of external belief that you're supposed to have these friends, but you really

01:03:18.060 don't quite believe it in your own heart and mind. So if that is an accurate read, then yeah,

01:03:24.520 of course you're going to struggle making friends. Of course, you're going to have skepticism. You don't

01:03:28.600 even know the reason why you would want to have friends. So I would start there. Like, is it,

01:03:34.580 is it that you can't make friends or that people can't be friendly with you? Or is it that you don't

01:03:39.260 see the value in it? And, and that actually goes back a little bit to the last question of like,

01:03:44.220 and if all your friendships are just kind of trivial and nonsensical and unimportant,

01:03:49.620 then why would you be optimistic towards, right? Why would you be optimistic towards that? So what I,

01:03:54.820 what I would do and suggest if, if I'm reading this correctly, maybe I'm completely off base

01:03:59.440 is start thinking about why this would be good for you in the first place.

01:04:05.780 And is it something you actually need? Now I think it is, but I'm not going to answer that for you.

01:04:10.640 You, you're going to have to determine if having a couple of guys in your corner,

01:04:15.120 high caliber men in your corner are worth the risk. This goes back to your skepticism,

01:04:20.500 worth the risk of engaging in a relationship with. And again, it's a give and take it's service.

01:04:26.680 So there's an element of risk. You have to determine whether or not it's worth it.

01:04:31.560 I think it is. I think you're going to be more fulfilled. I think you're going to have somebody to

01:04:35.680 talk with. I think somebody is going to help you be more accountable to what you want to accomplish.

01:04:41.080 I think they're going to challenge you in ways that maybe your wife can't because she's a woman 1.00

01:04:45.640 and she's your wife, not to diminish her role at all. And so I think it's valuable. And if it is,

01:04:52.700 then you need to risk the, the, the, the, whatever it is you're afraid of. I don't know what you're

01:04:59.720 afraid of, but you, you need to risk that in order to go out and get what it is that you want and why

01:05:06.380 it will serve you. So Ryan, once he comes to that conclusion, recommendations of, okay, you know,

01:05:13.060 it's worth the risk. Now what? Yeah. Go where those guys go, where they congregate, you know,

01:05:18.500 successful people are involved in business. If you're a little bit older, let's say you're retired

01:05:23.200 and I don't know, John, if you are or not, but let's say you're on the tail end of your career.

01:05:27.100 Um, you know, that might be at, at golfing or a country club or something like that.

01:05:33.240 Um, also another great place is charitable organizations within your community. Like I

01:05:39.440 know a lot of ultra successful businessmen who are involved in lions club and rotary and these sorts of

01:05:46.480 things. And, you know, maybe they've retired or they're on the tail end of their career. And so

01:05:52.100 they're looking for ways to give back and still be involved in the community and still feel like they

01:05:56.120 want to be active and contribute. And those are great places and they would love to have,

01:06:00.620 they're always looking for more members. So go, go visit rotary, go visit lions club. Um,

01:06:07.020 you know, maybe it's, uh, uh, VFW or American Legion and go to, go to the, I don't know if you're in the

01:06:15.000 military, but go to those places and put yourself in their environments and then try to add value and

01:06:21.500 serve. And you're going to find high caliber men in those places for sure.

01:06:25.520 So we, we mentioned a couple of things, uh, reminder, if you're interested in perhaps

01:06:30.000 join the iron council, when we open that up, uh, go to the website, subscribe to the newsletter or

01:06:35.860 follow Mr. Mickler on the social media, uh, to learn more about the IC, go to order of man.com

01:06:41.780 slash iron council. And to follow Ryan on Instagram and Twitter, that's at Ryan Mickler.

01:06:49.060 Or anything else you would ask, sir, maybe ratings and reviews, I think was something

01:06:53.660 that's always helpful. Yeah. Ratings, reviews, just take 30 seconds. Like we want this to be

01:06:57.820 a two way street, you know, like we're, we're trying to add value. We're trying to get good

01:07:02.780 information to you. And you know, we're doing that. I can confidently say we're doing that because we

01:07:07.500 have a very successful podcast and we've been doing this for seven years in exchange. We would ask

01:07:12.940 that you just take 30 seconds, 60 seconds, jump in there, leave a rating review on Spotify or

01:07:18.500 iTunes or wherever you're listening. And, uh, it goes a long way. If tens of thousands of you do

01:07:23.820 that, we bump that visibility up. We, we get this information to more men and frankly, society becomes

01:07:30.480 better. I get so many messages from people who are like, what can I do? What can I, how do I get

01:07:35.580 involved? What can I do? What can I leave a rating review? Oh no, something else. Okay. Well, like I'm

01:07:41.140 giving you things that you can do. This is a very small and simple thing that you can do. And then

01:07:45.420 we'll build from there. There's other things too. That's not the only thing, but it is a thing.

01:07:48.880 So we would ask for that. That's all I got. Excellent. Okay, cool. All right, you guys. Well,

01:07:53.920 we will be back on Friday. Uh, go listen to yesterday's podcast with Brian Callen. I think

01:07:58.160 you guys will really enjoy that one. It was a very entertaining, informative conversation for me.

01:08:02.560 That's for sure. Uh, and then we'll see you on Friday until then go out there, take action

01:08:06.900 and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:08:11.700 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:08:16.060 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - February 02, 2022

Making Decisions as a Man, Fault Versus Responsibility, and Casting Visions When All is Dark ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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