Order of Man - October 11, 2024


Masculinity Vs. Manliness ｜ FRIDAY FIELD NOTES

Topics
manliness vs. masculinity manliness vs. masculinity
Hosted by
Ryan Michler
Mentioned
Connor Beaton Matt Boudreau Apogee Strong Larry Hagner Dennis Michael Hines Tom Wilkin David Gilmore Jack Donovan Man Talks Order
Men Want Respect, Why Feminism Fails Men and Women, and How to Raise Boys Into Men ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING ANDREW KLAVAN ｜ In a Degenerate Culture, Create Your Own

Episode Stats


Length

15 minutes

Words per minute

167.57

Word count

2,527

Sentence count

160

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, Ryan talks about the difference between Masculinity and Manliness, and why it is important to understand the difference. He also discusses the importance of masculinity as a state of being, and what it means to be a man.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 So if masculinity is simply the characteristics and behaviors that we as men inherently possess
00:00:04.960 to varying degrees, then manliness is the application of those biological hardwiring
00:00:13.160 and conditions and traits and characteristics in order to produce effective, positive outcomes
00:00:20.340 for ourselves and for other people.
00:00:23.600 Guys, it's really, really important that we understand the distinction and that we know
00:00:27.780 that there is a distinction.
00:00:30.860 You're a man of action.
00:00:32.520 You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path.
00:00:36.880 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.
00:00:41.300 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.
00:00:46.400 This is your life.
00:00:47.500 This is who you are.
00:00:48.900 This is who you will become.
00:00:50.640 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
00:00:57.220 Gentlemen, welcome to the Order of Man podcast.
00:00:59.420 I am Ryan Mickler.
00:01:00.780 I'm the host and the founder of the movement here to reclaim and restore masculinity.
00:01:05.500 Welcome here today to your Friday Field Notes.
00:01:08.180 I want to talk with you today about the difference and distinction between masculinity and manliness.
00:01:14.120 Now, you might argue that it's semantics and you might argue that it's irrelevant.
00:01:18.600 I disagree.
00:01:19.140 When we define or differentiate between what masculinity is and what manliness is, it illustrates to us and those boys that we want to lead and teach and help grow into men themselves that it isn't just about a set of characteristics.
00:01:35.820 It isn't our biological hardware that defines who we are.
00:01:39.280 It's what we do with it.
00:01:40.520 So I've drawn some inspiration on this post from men who have connected with me on social media, primarily Instagram and Twitter.
00:01:48.140 And I asked the question, what is the difference between masculinity and manliness?
00:01:52.140 And I have some good answers that I wanted to share with you today.
00:01:55.320 So we'll get into that in just a minute.
00:01:56.560 Now, before I do, I want to mention something very exciting.
00:01:59.520 We have our first event announced for 2025.
00:02:04.540 This is going to be held on May 1st through the 5th, 2025.
00:02:08.400 And it's called The Forge, A Gathering of Men.
00:02:11.900 This is unlike anything that I've ever done, unlike anything that anybody who's ever come to one of our events over the past 10 years has done.
00:02:19.000 And what I've decided to do, along with some friends of mine, we've decided to partner up and work together on working towards making the largest men's conference in the world.
00:02:28.840 And so this is the very first iteration that we're going to be doing of it.
00:02:32.920 Again, it's called The Forge, A Gathering of Men.
00:02:35.180 And I have partnered with Connor Beaton of Man Talks, Larry Hagner with The Dad Edge, and Matt Boudreau with Apogee Strong.
00:02:43.420 And of course, yours truly with Order of Men.
00:02:46.440 And all four of us are working together to put together an incredible event outside of St. Louis.
00:02:50.980 And I'm not going to get into all the details here, but we are open for registration.
00:02:54.820 And between the four of us, right now we only have 200 spots available.
00:02:58.920 And they are going to go quick.
00:03:00.980 We also have a VIP option, and there's only 25 of those spots available.
00:03:05.180 So if you're interested in learning more about what the event is, what the experience is all about,
00:03:09.800 and the benefits that you're going to get by coming out on May 1st through the 5th, 2025, outside of St. Louis, Missouri,
00:03:15.260 go to themensforge.com.
00:03:18.940 That's themensforge.com.
00:03:21.080 You'll watch a quick video, be introduced to your guest speakers,
00:03:23.600 and of course, we'll answer all of your questions there.
00:03:26.580 Again, themensforge.com.
00:03:28.800 And please get registered as soon as you can.
00:03:31.660 All right, guys, let's talk about the difference between masculinity and manliness.
00:03:34.960 I'm going to let the guys speak before I do.
00:03:37.520 And I pulled out six, five or six different quotes here from the men who follow me on Instagram
00:03:43.380 and Twitter, both at Ryan Mickler.
00:03:45.620 And here it is.
00:03:46.380 This one comes from Raleigh.
00:03:47.520 He says, masculinity is a set of traits more traditionally associated with being a man.
00:03:53.060 And manliness is the application of those masculine features, 0.88
00:03:56.260 such as cultural, moral, and ethical considerations.
00:04:00.800 This one comes from Tommy Wilkerson.
00:04:02.420 He says, masculinity is a state of being.
00:04:05.100 Manliness is a feature.
00:04:06.700 I would agree that that is the right distinction, but I would flip that around.
00:04:12.960 I would say that manliness is a state of being, but masculinity is a feature.
00:04:18.460 But I did want to highlight that because it does show that there's a differentiation.
00:04:21.720 This one comes from Lasta over on X.
00:04:23.840 He says, the opposite of masculinity is femininity.
00:04:26.940 The opposite of manliness is boyishness.
00:04:29.540 I really like that definition.
00:04:31.320 This next one comes from Dennis Michael Hines.
00:04:33.560 He says, masculinity is finding a really cool stick.
00:04:37.080 Manliness is the way you swing it.
00:04:39.640 And the last one here, I like that last definition.
00:04:42.560 Very creative.
00:04:43.420 And I think it illustrates it perfectly.
00:04:45.240 Last one that I want to share with you here today.
00:04:46.860 This one's from shoot, move, caffeinate over on Instagram.
00:04:50.900 He says, masculinity equals an adjective.
00:04:53.960 It describes the traits and complexities inherent to a man.
00:04:58.260 Manliness is a verb.
00:05:00.480 It takes those traits and actively practices them, which I definitely agree with that one
00:05:05.880 as well.
00:05:06.500 And that's pretty much how I would define it, guys.
00:05:09.500 You know, when you look at masculinity, if you even just look it up in the dictionary,
00:05:12.660 and I don't always do this because the dictionary changes, especially as wokeism continues to permeate
00:05:17.540 culture.
00:05:17.940 Those definitions miraculously change to fit the narrative.
00:05:21.960 But if you were to look at the definition of masculinity, essentially all it is, is a set
00:05:27.100 of characteristics and behaviors that are largely determined by our biological makeup.
00:05:31.200 It's the testosterone and the hormones coursing through our veins.
00:05:34.800 It's our size.
00:05:35.680 It's other, you know, chemicals and physical, biological hardwiring that makes us more prone
00:05:43.100 to behave a certain way relative to our female counterparts.
00:05:47.080 The American Psychological Association completed a study probably at this point four or five years
00:05:52.420 ago.
00:05:52.760 And in it, they attempted to paint the characteristics that we would inherently attribute to men as
00:06:01.980 inherently toxic.
00:06:03.160 I think if I remember correctly, the attributes they used were dominance, stoicism, aggressiveness
00:06:09.880 and competitiveness.
00:06:12.200 So those are, they're amoral.
00:06:15.620 They're not good nor bad.
00:06:17.260 It's really dependent on how you use them.
00:06:20.420 And that's the differentiator between what masculinity is and what manliness is.
00:06:25.420 So if masculinity is simply the characteristics and behaviors that we as men inherently possess
00:06:30.640 to varying degrees, then manliness is the application of those biological hardwiring and conditions
00:06:39.520 and traits and characteristics in order to produce effective, positive outcomes for ourselves
00:06:47.200 and for other people.
00:06:48.920 In other words, you, and I've heard this definition before is, uh, something like masculinity is
00:06:57.340 a birthright, but manliness is so much more.
00:07:01.220 It's earned and you do have to earn it.
00:07:03.260 When we see somebody who is behaving in a positive manner using their masculine attributes, we say
00:07:09.100 that's a man or that's a man's man, or he is manly, which just goes to show that there
00:07:15.880 is a difference.
00:07:16.480 Now, some people will say, well, a man is just, uh, an, uh, an adult human male.
00:07:21.840 And yes, technically that's true, but I think we can exercise some discernment and realize
00:07:26.560 that not all men, if we're using that definition of it are created equal.
00:07:31.080 Some are much more effective at being a man than other people.
00:07:35.320 Uh, David Gilmore in his book, manhood in the making, I believe that's what it's called.
00:07:41.220 The name escapes me.
00:07:42.300 I believe it's manhood in the making.
00:07:43.440 And more recently, Jack Donovan talks about the distinction between being a good man and
00:07:49.680 being good at being a man.
00:07:51.740 And I think if we're defining manliness, then that would apply more towards being good at being a man, which means that we have to take the natural propensity for aggression or dominance or competition.
00:08:07.000 The things the American psychological association said are negative, and we need to harness those in a way to serve ourselves and serve others positively.
00:08:17.460 Our motto here with order of man is to protect, provide, preside.
00:08:20.760 You cannot do that effectively unless you're harnessing your God-given natural talents, abilities, characteristics, and behaviors for the betterment of yourself and other people.
00:08:32.160 Guys, it's really, really important that we understand the distinction and that we know that there is a distinction.
00:08:37.660 You know, for example, I've got three sons.
00:08:39.500 I also have a daughter, but we'll talk about the boys for a minute.
00:08:42.740 They are boys.
00:08:43.640 I have a 16-year-old, a 13-year-old, and an eight-year-old.
00:08:46.200 They're all boys.
00:08:46.920 I would argue that the 16-year-old is more maybe a young man, but we don't expect them to behave like men.
00:08:54.420 We don't ask them to, and we don't expect them to.
00:08:57.040 When they fall short, we understand.
00:08:58.780 Of course, there's discipline that needs to take place, and we're teaching them how to become men.
00:09:04.280 But I would argue that there's also 30-year-olds, 35-year-olds, 40-year-olds who are less men than maybe my 16-year-old is,
00:09:14.460 not because of their biological makeup, but because of the way that they're behaving.
00:09:19.440 Guys, it is our imperative to protect, provide, and preside.
00:09:22.540 And in order to do that, we need to make ourselves more capable in all the realms that we deal with in our lives.
00:09:30.240 Physical, mental, spiritual, financial, relational, intellectual.
00:09:36.200 That's what we've spent the past almost 10 years now working on.
00:09:43.080 And again, I think it's really important that we understand the difference so that we know we are called to do so much more than we're probably doing right now.
00:09:52.600 And that goes for every single person listening and for me as well.
00:09:56.420 Now, this Friday Field Notes is a call today for you guys and myself.
00:10:01.360 I get just as much benefit from this as I hope you get from me to take an opportunity today and moving into the weekend
00:10:09.040 and really do a self-assessment and ask ourselves, are we using our characteristics for the betterment of ourselves and other people?
00:10:16.020 And if we're not, what can we do better, specifically, each and every day to improve our own lives and the lives of others?
00:10:22.800 I'll give you an example, and this is one I often use to help people understand the difference
00:10:29.340 because what I want you to know is that masculinity is amoral.
00:10:35.680 Usually, people would say masculinity is inherently good or inherently bad, and I don't actually agree with that.
00:10:42.140 Masculinity just is.
00:10:44.320 It's like a hammer.
00:10:45.620 You would never say a hammer is good or bad, but if you use a hammer to build a beautiful home that a family will live in,
00:10:52.560 then you use that instrument for the betterment of yourself and other people.
00:10:56.720 If you use it to bash somebody's head in unjustly or unnecessarily so,
00:11:03.660 then we would all agree that that was a misuse, at best, of an amoral tool to do destruction to other people's lives.
00:11:12.880 Well, we do the same thing as men in the context of masculinity and manliness.
00:11:17.360 If your propensity for aggression drives you towards outbursts and bullying and coercion and manipulation
00:11:26.200 and an egotistical, arrogant approach to your family life or your professional life,
00:11:33.640 then we would all agree that that natural propensity for aggression handled that way
00:11:38.360 is not an appropriate use of our propensity to be aggressive.
00:11:41.980 If, on the other hand, we use that propensity of aggression to either physically protect another person
00:11:48.820 or we use that aggression and we harness it towards virtuous capitalism,
00:11:54.860 meaning you're going out and you're competing and you're offering products
00:11:59.300 and you're being relentless about how you grow your business and how you serve your clients,
00:12:04.620 you could make the case that both are aggressive.
00:12:07.000 One was a misuse, bullying, coercing, manipulating, pushing others down,
00:12:13.060 and one was an appropriate use by using that aggression for positive outcomes.
00:12:18.500 So when people say, oh, we need more masculinity,
00:12:20.780 we don't necessarily need more masculinity in the world.
00:12:23.680 It's already present just because it's a birthright.
00:12:26.800 What we need is more manliness, and that is the purpose of this mission,
00:12:30.700 to take what we've been given, whether you believe it's God-given or through evolution,
00:12:35.480 I believe it's God-given, but to take what we're given from God
00:12:39.000 and to use that tool effectively, to use it powerfully and to serve other people.
00:12:44.520 Guys, my message and my call out for you today is to take what you are good at as a man,
00:12:51.620 aggression, competition, the desire to dominate or even be territorial in some ways,
00:12:58.820 stoicism, harnessing that emotion for positive outcomes, and use it powerfully.
00:13:05.480 Get a notepad out, get a journal out, and ask yourself,
00:13:08.180 how can I use these traits that I have for powerful tools in the service of others?
00:13:14.420 Guys, that's my message for you today.
00:13:16.500 I know we didn't get deep into the weeds,
00:13:18.060 but I really want everybody to know that there is a distinction,
00:13:20.620 and I hope that we can convince or at least communicate and illustrate why there is a difference
00:13:26.300 and why it's important to acknowledge what the difference is.
00:13:30.400 Guys, as we leave today, I want to send a little reminder that we have The Men's Forge.
00:13:34.800 If you go to The Men's Forge, you're going to be able to sign up for our experience
00:13:39.360 on May 1st through the 5th, 2025, with me, Connor Beaton with Man Talks,
00:13:43.760 Larry Hagner with The Dad Edge, and Matt Boudreau with Apogee Strong.
00:13:47.300 That's May 1st through the 5th, 2025.
00:13:50.120 I would love to fill those spots up.
00:13:52.140 I don't think we'll have any problem getting 200 people there,
00:13:54.560 and it is going to be an event unlike any others.
00:13:57.960 We have three other people that we're communicating with currently
00:14:00.860 to negotiate and talk about how we can get them on board as well,
00:14:04.300 and these are three very well-known men who most of you, if not all of you,
00:14:09.640 will know and want to hear from.
00:14:11.560 Again, themensforge.com.
00:14:13.360 Let's get that thing filled out, filled up,
00:14:15.380 and get you out there in May.
00:14:18.240 All right, guys.
00:14:19.440 We've got a couple of great podcasts coming up, interviews coming up,
00:14:22.800 so make sure you subscribe, leave a rating and review if you haven't done that,
00:14:26.220 follow along on Instagram and Twitter,
00:14:28.140 at Ryan Mickler,
00:14:29.260 and until then, go out there, take action,
00:14:33.440 become more manly,
00:14:34.860 and become the man you're meant to be.
00:14:40.780 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.
00:14:43.760 If you're ready to take charge of your life
00:14:45.380 and be more of the man you were meant to be,
00:14:47.440 we invite you to join the Order at orderofman.com.
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