Mastering Feedback, Boundaries, and Family Mentoring ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING
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Summary
In this episode, we sit down with Kip and talk about what it's like to work a 9-5 job, what's going on in his life right now, and what he's up to this week.
Transcript
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Am I going to sit down and waste my time doing a performance review with Joe?
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People don't invest in others that they're indifferent to.
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So I wouldn't go in there and start thinking about it as criticism.
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I would reframe that and say, hey, you know what?
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Because if it's your boss and he believes something, then his perception is reality.
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Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.
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When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time.
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At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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I think we're both a little bit, I don't know, I'm feeling a little flustered this morning
00:01:02.920
It feels like you might be experiencing the same thing.
00:01:10.980
Well, I went up to Salt Lake and we watched some lacrosse this weekend, which was amazing.
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So the professional, our premier lacrosse league.
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It was blazing hot up there at 4.30 in the afternoon.
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But other than that, once it cooled off, it was actually really good.
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So Brecken brought two of his buddies with him.
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And so we had a great time and enjoyed ourselves.
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Victor Driggs area of Idaho on the backside of the Tetons.
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So there's some awesome wind caves up in that area that are just insane.
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It just blows my mind that people go through this mountain that's a mile deep with ropes
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One of our events, we threw you down on the bottom of a cave for probably about three hours
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and just let you sit there by yourself in the dark.
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Which is exactly what I think you needed, so that's why we chose you to do it.
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Full disclosure, and I don't want to share too much of a story, I actually was concerned
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I remember that we had a team meeting the night before the event, or that day, and we're
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And I'm like, and I was sitting there, and I thought, am I going to freak out sitting
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in the mountain for hours on end and just in a really tight spot?
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I really honestly considered if I would freak out.
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Once we got in there, I'm like, this is awesome.
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I think those caves are shut down, but for those guys listening that might not know what
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we're talking about, there's these caves in Southern Utah, and we did one of our events,
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and you basically climb straight down into the ground, and I can't remember the distance.
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You climb down in one area, and it's pretty well marked with splatter paint and fluorescent
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lights and paint and all that kind of stuff down in the bottom of the caves, and then you
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But there's some parts in it where you climb down in it, and you're belly crawling to get
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under a gap that's probably, what, two feet at most, and you're belly crawling several
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hundred yards and trying to squeeze through tight places, and if you're claustrophobic,
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That's the legacy event, the father and son event.
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Yeah, so we've got another one coming online here in the fall and in the spring, so I'll
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let everybody know when that is, but yeah, let's get to some questions today, man.
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So John Pedroza, so I just started a new job overseas.
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My boss recognizes that I have skills far above my current position.
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He recommended to me that I apply for the job that is several layers above what I currently
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It's way outside of my comfort zone and would entail knowledge and skills that I don't
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I am confident to know that I don't know everything, but I am also a fast learner.
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Do you suggest that I apply for the position and learn as I go, or should I stick to incremental
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Full disclosure, John may have not been listening to the podcast long enough to know maybe what
00:05:11.480
Yeah, of course you should apply for the better job.
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There's a couple of things that stood out to me.
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You said, I don't doubt that I have what it takes to do the new job.
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You also said something about you being confident.
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Those are, that's the recipe for success right there.
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I mean, you're humble and confident enough to learn.
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So I think, I think, yes, obviously you should apply for the job.
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Incremental learning is, or incremental progress is for losers who can't do it any faster.
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Like if you can skip the line, so to speak, James Altucher wrote a book called Skip the
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If you can skip the line, you ought to skip the line because here's why you owe it to
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You owe it to your boss because he sees something in you.
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You owe it to your company because you can obviously serve the company and you owe it to
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If you're married and have kids, what are you going to tell your wife?
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Hey hon, we could have had this better opportunity, but I decided to take it slow and safe instead.
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Can you, can you look your wife in the face and tell her that that was the best decision?
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And I know I'm, it's might sound a little harsh, but that's the reality.
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So of course you should go for the, and if you don't get it, then you're on the path anyway.
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I mean, you, you don't have the job where you're, you're just talking about applying
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And the incremental steps probably isn't that uncomfortable, at least not uncomfortable
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And then just default back to the path that you were on.
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But yeah, if you can, I mean, it's like asking if you're a baseball player and you're like,
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you know, I'm really capable of hitting a home run on this pitch, but I think I'm going
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Now, if you get a single, that's great, but definitely hit the home run if you can.
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And props to your boss, John, for seeing that in you and suggesting it to you.
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I mean, you look, that's, that's actually something that we ought to pull out of this
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is how many times, Kip, do you and I get questions where my boss is an asshole, my boss
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is a jerk, my boss doesn't appreciate my boss this, my boss that.
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So be aware of that and really respect and honor him because he sees something in you.
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And I think there's, there's something there for sure.
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So I, well, his pronunciation is way like the, the spelling of his last name is odd.
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I didn't know if you had like an affinity for his name or, or what it like.
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Wanting to be a good male influence for my wife's sister's kids, 13 female, five-year-old
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They both have different dads who are not the best role models or in the picture at all.
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How can I show up for them while also not overstepping and being that weird uncle?
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So, and this is your wife's sister's kids is what I heard.
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Depending on the relationship you have with your sister-in-law, you, you should talk with
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her because if you talk with her, she might really be on board with you stepping up in
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Because the, the single women that I I've met and the single women who listen to this
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podcast are very much on board with having a good, strong male presence in their young
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Without exception, everybody I've heard from or that I'm associated with in some way definitely
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So it would be hard for me to believe that she wouldn't be interested in that.
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Now, what that means might differ between person to person, but I think every single
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mother out there is, is interested in having a good, strong male presence in their kids'
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And if that's the case, and if you guys have a good relationship, then she might tell you
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what she's looking for, or she might give you some insight into what the 13 year old
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girl is going through or, or, um, how the five-year-old boy is progressing.
00:10:17.080
And with that insight and blessing that might give you a clear direction on how you can lead
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If you just go in there and, you know, exert your will in some way, if she's not on board
00:10:34.600
She might be confused as to why you're doing it.
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Um, everybody might be confused why you're doing it.
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So I think the first step here is to communicate.
00:10:43.600
Well, I'd say this first with your wife, because your wife's going to give you some insight
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because it's her sister that you might not be privy to right now.
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And then if she's on board with that, then I would probably connect with your sister-in-law.
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And if she's on board, then you guys can formulate a plan.
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And maybe it's taking your 13 year old niece, uh, to lunch once a week, but that might be
00:11:04.920
an idea that her mother comes up with, or maybe it's taking the five-year-old boy to the
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But again, that might be a decision the mother comes up with, not you just exerting your will.
00:11:17.760
Because, you know, it's, it's sensitive, a 13 year old girl, that's, that's a sensitive
00:11:23.200
And so there's some things there that we need to be aware of and you need to make sure the
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And you start injecting yourself that people may freak out or weird, weird out.
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Do you have some general, I don't know, rules of thumb or just suggestions on increasing your
00:11:42.600
So let's, let's assume mom and dad, everyone's aligned.
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What recommendations did you have to be influential with them?
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I would say the most important thing is to be interested in whatever they're interested
00:12:01.200
So, and, and by the way, it doesn't mean you have to be an expert.
00:12:04.440
So let's say the 13 year old girl, I'll just be like stereotypical.
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The odds of you being into dance or cheer are significantly low.
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So, however, if it was a 13 year old boy and he's really into basketball, okay.
00:12:24.120
If, if, if I were in those shoes, I could definitely resonate more with that than I can
00:12:29.740
But just because you don't know a subject doesn't mean you can't be interested in it.
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And the best way to show interest is to be interested.
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How do your, how does your team look this year?
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So if you can just ask questions that pertain to that child, then that child is going to
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believe and know rightfully that you are indeed interested in them.
00:13:01.820
Um, and then from there, once you start to understand a little bit more about who that
00:13:06.980
child is and what that child is interested in, then you can cater discussions or small
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things like small tokens that you're thinking about them or appreciate them or show up to
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Um, but, but you have to enter their world first.
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You can't expect them to come into your world and be thrilled about it, especially if they
00:13:30.480
The only thing that, that comes to mind, I'm probably saying this more for myself than
00:13:38.860
You know, I have a tendency to get like, Oh, I'm going to get really intense with them
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and we're going to have straight, like a great relationship.
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And quite frankly, you haven't earned the right to be intense with those kids yet.
00:13:55.700
You know, you, you have to earn that, that right to do that.
00:13:59.600
I don't know where I heard this, but years and years ago, uh, when I was really studying
00:14:04.740
a lot of public speaking, um, I had coaches and I had people that were good at public speaking.
00:14:10.520
And one of the things that I heard is that if you start asking your audience members,
00:14:14.820
things, questions that you haven't earned the right to ask, you'll hear crickets.
00:14:18.660
And you see that sometimes you'll see a presenter ask a question and nobody answers it.
00:14:22.920
That's because you haven't earned the right to their answer yet.
00:14:27.040
But if, if, if you engage them and you entertain them and you educate them and you get them
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on the edge of their seat and you, and you add value, and then you can see that you're
00:14:39.140
building up rapport and trust and influence with them.
00:14:41.800
And then you were to ask a question maybe later in the presentation, after you've developed
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some level of trust, you're going to notice you're going to get a lot more engagement and
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feedback when you ask for feedback from the audience, because to a degree you've earned
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the right to their participation, but everybody's a little bit wary when it's anything new, even
00:15:04.380
Well, and I can see the correlation between just even work at relationships.
00:15:08.320
You know, we talk about this, about being in a position of, of influence as a leader.
00:15:12.600
You're, that's what you're talking about is like, do you have an established relationship?
00:15:16.680
You can't, you can't have difficult conversations sometimes with people if you haven't earned
00:15:23.660
And you might just be using your authority and it's going to undermine you.
00:15:29.860
Rick Donovan, um, how is the iron council different today than it was when you began 10 years
00:15:37.200
When did you foresee the number of men whose lives have been changed by it?
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I didn't start it for that reason, order a man for that reason.
00:15:50.460
I started selfishly because I wanted to talk with interesting people that could help me
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And I, and basically what I said is I have this podcast.
00:15:59.880
I never lied, but I said, I have this podcast where I'm going to record our conversation.
00:16:04.160
And the implication was that I was going to share it with my audience.
00:16:07.840
What they didn't know is I didn't have an audience at that time, but it quickly grew
00:16:13.920
And, uh, you know, so yeah, that's why I started it.
00:16:17.680
So I had no idea we'd be able to impact literally millions of men all across the world at this
00:16:23.360
And I'm very grateful for the opportunity to be able to do it.
00:16:31.600
The premise is still the same to equip men with the tools, resources, and conversations
00:16:38.340
The premise is always the same and has always been the same and will always be the way we
00:16:44.900
So for example, one thing that we did when we very first started is it was kind of just
00:16:49.920
So men would come in and there was 12 guys and then there was 80 guys and then there
00:16:56.600
And it was like a free for all right up until the point we got to about 83 members.
00:17:03.380
I don't know why, but that's the number where I, I remember thinking, man, I don't know who
00:17:12.720
And so it started to lose some of its intimacy.
00:17:15.180
And so I thought, well, what would be cool is if we could leverage this and I could have
00:17:22.280
So if Kip, you and I were in the Iron Council, you and me would be partnered up.
00:17:26.700
And then the idea is that we would hold each other accountable.
00:17:29.380
But that didn't work because if one of the partners wasn't interested in participating to
00:17:35.140
the same level that the other partner was, then both partners felt frustrated about their
00:17:41.700
So I was listening to a podcast from Jocko and he was talking about fire teams and fire
00:17:46.960
teams in the military are small teams of men that work together to complete a larger objective.
00:17:51.540
And there's all sorts of fire teams completing their assignments and missions, but they're
00:17:56.660
working side by side or as counterparts to fulfill a greater mission.
00:18:02.120
So we developed what we call battle teams and battle teams are groups of 12 to 15 men who
00:18:08.460
work side by side to hold each other accountable, a little bit more of a familiar and intimate
00:18:14.800
You need that trust and credibility and authority with people.
00:18:20.880
And so we've quadrupled down on the concept of battle teams inside the Iron Council.
00:18:26.320
So a lot of the times when you join certain groups, it is just a free-for-all.
00:18:31.580
It's like you show up, there's a leader of the organization, he spouts off about whatever
00:18:35.880
he's going to spout off about, and then that's it.
00:18:39.400
But inside of what we do, it's not the Ryan Council, it's the Iron Council.
00:18:47.180
So I found really good ways to leverage the credibility, the expertise, the knowledge
00:18:55.780
and know-how of other men, and allowed them to work together in a very systematic way to
00:19:01.700
That's probably the biggest change that we've had since we started.
00:19:05.560
And there's other things, but that's the most notable and significant.
00:19:12.180
Man, I mean, I just think it's kind of the caliber of the guys have obviously changed.
00:19:21.220
You know, a lot of these battle team leaders, some of them have been here for a really long
00:19:27.560
And so I remember the early days, you know, we have some conflict on a team.
00:19:32.400
It was kind of like, haven't ran into this before, you know what I mean?
00:19:38.740
Yeah, there's not too many new scenarios or issues that arise that we're like, we haven't
00:19:47.060
So I think we're seasoned from that perspective.
00:19:50.760
System changes, you know, come and go, you know what I mean?
00:19:54.780
But one thing that I've always appreciated about you, and I think this has always been
00:19:59.200
true, is, you know, battle team leaders, they own their team.
00:20:05.740
I mean, there's a level of pride in regards to that team.
00:20:10.340
There's a level of responsibility placed on them, and they want those teams to be successful.
00:20:18.220
They're not just ticket takers, like, doing a job.
00:20:21.120
I mean, it's a very sought-after role in the Iron Council, and men take it very serious.
00:20:29.040
I mean, those guys put a lot of effort and time into leading teams, and it's really important
00:20:36.160
And because of that, I think the Iron Council has continued to be successful because of
00:20:50.240
And ultimately, I have to because I'm the one telling people to come join the Iron Council.
00:20:54.980
And if I have a bunch of guys, and they're not doing their job, then that's a reflection
00:20:59.240
upon me, which I'm not willing to jeopardize or sacrifice.
00:21:02.900
But I will say the other thing, and I think you alluded to this, and this is a leadership
00:21:06.960
principle, is not only do you have to give people responsibility, but you have to give
00:21:12.940
So, for example, if I put a bunch of responsibility on your shoulders, Kip, to manage this podcast,
00:21:20.160
for example, but I didn't give you the authority to be able to execute your job, then that's
00:21:26.520
Like, why would you, as a person, accept the burden of responsibility without the authority
00:21:34.020
So, I give these guys a lot of authority to act on my behalf.
00:21:38.960
So, I need to trust them, and they need to trust me, and if things don't work out, we
00:21:43.400
need to come up with a solution, because both of us are going to be impacted, and then the
00:21:47.500
other guys who are on their teams are going to be impacted.
00:21:49.740
But you can't give people responsibility, because that is a burden in a lot of cases, without
00:21:55.660
the accompanying authority to do something about it.
00:22:03.160
Well, and I think, I was going to say something about the IC.
00:22:08.380
I mean, I, oh man, what was the thought I was going to, oh darn it, I'm going to space
00:22:15.180
I was just going to say, you know, it is, it is not just like a labor of love, but like
00:22:23.840
even these, these men that are in battle team leader roles, the, the amount of growth that
00:22:32.100
And, and the point that I wanted to make is, life shows up in the IC.
00:22:36.300
That's one of the, my favorite things about it, is if you're struggling with holding someone
00:22:43.540
In the Iron Council, when you're on a team, that's going to show up for you.
00:22:47.260
If you're hesitant to speak up when you know you should, guess what?
00:22:50.900
That's going to show up in the Iron Council too.
00:22:53.320
Whatever you're struggling with in your day-to-day, the Iron Council gives you the reps to flush it
00:23:02.140
And so it's not like this kumbaya, you know, nest of protection where we don't have any
00:23:11.480
But if you're having those hardships here, guess what?
00:23:14.460
You're having them more likely in life as well.
00:23:18.460
And, and, and if you're struggling here, you need to address it here so you can address
00:23:24.320
And that's, that's one of the best benefits of it as well.
00:23:26.880
Well, it's, it's interesting because I was going through, I was plugging away at some
00:23:34.880
And I try to be as transparent as I can on this and I don't want to get too stuck on
00:23:39.860
You know, it's roughly a thousand dollars a year, maybe a little bit less depending on
00:23:46.980
But let's just say it's a thousand for the sake of argument.
00:23:53.260
So for $2.79, you get a day, you get all your brotherhood, you get constant communication,
00:24:03.860
you get access to Kip, you and me, you get accountability, you get the battle planning
00:24:08.360
app, you get the tools and systems and resources, you get a late night phone call with your friends
00:24:14.020
and brothers that you need if, if you're struggling.
00:24:16.200
And people will be like, Oh my God, a thousand dollars.
00:24:19.600
Look, I don't know your financial situation and I'm not here to make light of it or, or
00:24:23.820
assume I know what it is, but how many people will balk at a thousand dollars a year or $2.79
00:24:29.940
a day for something that's drastically going to improve their life.
00:24:34.020
I mean, you're going to pay off debt, uh, thousands and thousands of dollars of debt.
00:24:40.540
You're going to lose 20, 30, 40, 50, 80 pounds.
00:24:46.340
And who knows how that's going to positively impact your life.
00:24:49.820
You're going to build your relationship with your wife.
00:24:51.940
You're going to be more connected with your kids.
00:24:53.300
You're going to get laid more often, like pick what's worth $2.79 a day.
00:24:57.760
So they'll balk at that, but they'll every day, every single day, they'll stop by Starbucks
00:25:04.360
and spend $8 on a mocha frappuccino, latte, oat milk, soy infused, whatever.
00:25:14.960
It's like, and I'm not here to judge that decision that you can buy whatever you want,
00:25:21.120
but think about where your money is being deployed.
00:25:25.060
And is it currently being deployed in the best possible avenues?
00:25:32.760
Because if it's not, then you should make some changes or maybe don't complain so much
00:25:47.000
What advice do you have for keeping an open mindset to criticism?
00:25:51.580
What filters do you use for determining if the criticism is well-founded or baseless?
00:25:59.220
Well, first, stop calling it criticism because if that's how you look at it,
00:26:05.480
you're already going to be like you're sideways.
00:26:07.680
You're already going to be in your defensive posture.
00:26:13.680
I actually look at it as an investment in you because, Kip,
00:26:21.700
Let's say you're my employee and I need to have a performance review with you.
00:26:28.980
And let's say there's a counterpart that you have and we'll call him Joe.
00:26:33.680
And Joe does the same thing and there's two of you.
00:26:40.140
And Joe is not doing a great job for the company.
00:26:43.680
Am I going to sit down and waste my time doing a performance review with Joe?
00:26:51.960
But if I still have some, even if it's just a sliver of hope in you as my employee,
00:26:58.600
then what I'm doing, if I sit down for a performance review,
00:27:05.120
in spite of maybe some of the critique I'm going to give to you,
00:27:13.020
People don't invest in others that they're indifferent to.
00:27:19.720
So I wouldn't go in there and start thinking about it as criticism.
00:27:23.320
I would reframe that and say, hey, you know what?
00:27:29.940
My boss still believes that I can fulfill a duty and responsibility.
00:27:37.260
The thing that you said about whether or not it's warranted
00:27:43.720
Because if it's your boss and he believes something,
00:27:51.000
So if there's, so, okay, so if I'm in a performance review with you, Kip,
00:27:54.880
and you say to me, hey, Ryan, I think when you're at work,
00:28:00.640
but you're not as diligent as I think you could be.
00:28:03.080
And I think you could really speed up your production or be more productive.
00:28:16.440
So if there's something that you don't understand,
00:28:21.800
You got to be careful on this because questioning can quickly become grilling
00:28:27.720
But if I don't understand something, I could say, well, Kip, you know,
00:28:30.940
I appreciate you bringing that out first and foremost.
00:28:36.080
Do you have an example or a thought about how maybe I could improve in that department?
00:28:44.400
And then it's causing you to give me something more tangible that I can latch on to.
00:28:49.500
But the other thing that it's doing is it's showing you, Kip, as my boss,
00:28:53.180
that I'm taking your feedback and trying to improve already.
00:28:56.280
In the actual conversation, I'm already trying to improve.
00:29:00.880
But what I wouldn't do is, hey, Kip, like, I know you think that, but I'm actually busy.
00:29:05.680
Think about all the things that I've got done and look how great and wonderful I am.
00:29:12.220
So just take it and say, just act as if it's true.
00:29:14.900
If you thought it was true, what would you say?
00:29:20.700
Do that because that's going to help you not be defensive.
00:29:24.700
See, another way I like to look at this, Ryan, is don't look at anything as truth.
00:29:36.360
People's interpretations, their perceptions, their limited exposure of the work that you're
00:29:50.340
So, like, if, Ryan, you gave me criticism and you said, hey, Kip, you know, I just don't
00:29:55.880
think you're as committed and your work is hard.
00:29:58.460
Now, that maybe it stings if I think I work hard and if I take what Ryan said as fact.
00:30:08.780
My boss perceives and doesn't believe that I work as hard as I do.
00:30:14.900
Oh, instead of demonizing, I can go, well, maybe he's not aware of all the things that
00:30:20.620
Maybe I need to keep him updated in regards to what I'm working on.
00:30:30.720
But I like to beat it up and say it's not truth.
00:30:47.980
Maybe as I think about sharing this, I'm wondering if you'll be like, no, I think they were
00:30:53.940
right, Kip, but I got feedback once from leaders.
00:31:02.680
And it was, Kip is overly arrogant and close-minded.
00:31:36.340
They know me as a figurehead of the company that talks every so often at all hands meetings.
00:31:48.440
All I focused on was bettering my relationship with them.
00:32:00.260
I was just this position of this person in a position of authority.
00:32:06.620
And so they saw my passion as like arrogance and closed-mindedness when in reality it's
00:32:19.360
But these are data points for you to figure out and how you're going to manage.
00:32:31.280
And they have valid data points of where that perception is coming from.
00:32:38.220
Well, for what it's worth, Kip, I don't think that about you.
00:32:48.760
This is what you're talking about sounds a little bit like office politics.
00:32:53.020
And every time we bring up office politics, people are like, I don't want to play the game.
00:33:08.480
That was one of my favorite movies when I was a kid.
00:33:16.880
And so you didn't get to opt out of the game just because you didn't like playing.
00:33:25.700
And you can acknowledge it or not acknowledge it.
00:33:36.020
Jumanji's still coming for you, whether you like it or not.
00:33:42.420
And the more you get to know the game, like, for example, getting to know your people.
00:33:47.360
Getting to know what your boss is interested in.
00:33:49.940
Some employers, bosses, team leaders, employers, whatever, really care more, for example, about
00:33:57.300
a person getting to work on time than they do productivity.
00:34:01.400
They will value a person who comes in at 8 o'clock or earlier, if that's the check-in
00:34:06.140
time, every day than somebody who comes in at 8.20, 8.25, rolls in, but kicks ass throughout
00:34:14.460
That person who comes in late might be more productive, but sometimes the boss is like,
00:34:30.060
If you don't want to play somewhere else, learn to play the game here.
00:34:33.540
And the best thing about having these reviews is you get to know what the guy is interested
00:34:42.620
And they're going to tell you what they value based on what they see in you that they like
00:34:47.540
and things where they feel like you can improve.
00:34:50.260
All that means, to your point, Kip, is what their values are.
00:34:54.080
And if you can learn that, you've unlocked the key to the game.
00:34:58.460
And anybody listening that's in a position to dictate performance management and you're
00:35:08.660
I mean, the reality of it is they are not effective.
00:35:13.660
And plus, me waiting a year to get some feedback from Ryan, bad idea.
00:35:20.800
How long have you been holding on to that, Ryan?
00:35:23.000
You've been pissed off about how I did something wrong six months ago.
00:35:27.420
And then you have confirmation bias and looking for evidence of this.
00:35:30.960
And then you're digging up dirt on me leading up to our annual review.
00:35:34.100
Oh, my gosh, guys, this is such an outdated approach to performance management.
00:35:41.880
And people get sideways just like Bryce is getting sideways.
00:35:52.320
I'm going to be torn up because that's what I'm supposed to do as a boss is beat the shit
00:36:02.540
I never considered that, but that's a good point.
00:36:07.020
How does one set boundaries but still keep their mind open to hear other person's perspectives?
00:36:12.940
There's some correlation between this and Bryce's question, I think.
00:36:16.360
Even in disagreement, he says, this could be in many situations, wife, work, friends,
00:36:21.440
In some situations, I feel as if my opinion will not change, but want to be open-minded
00:36:46.460
It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it.
00:36:50.080
It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it.
00:36:57.520
I don't think having a hardline stance on an issue is a boundary, by the way.
00:37:04.100
A boundary to me is kept the way that you will treat me or not treat me.
00:37:08.220
So if we're in debate and it gets heated, you will not resort to personal insults and attacks.
00:37:15.580
And if you do, then I'm not going to participate in the discussion.
00:37:21.200
So just a disagreement or me even saying, hey, I believe this is not a boundary.
00:37:26.800
Now, if I said, I believe this and anybody who doesn't believe it can F off and not be
00:37:31.420
in my friend group, okay, now you've turned it into a boundary.
00:37:38.720
So I don't think you need to set up boundaries when it comes to differing opinions.
00:37:49.460
And I don't know that you always need a bad, sometimes you will, but not always.
00:37:55.480
But I think the best thing that you can do is to state your case.
00:38:05.800
So, Kip, if I say something to you about how I think this podcast should be run, then I could
00:38:13.520
believe that and still say, but what do you think, Kip?
00:38:18.540
And you might say, well, Ryan, I think actually you should do it this way.
00:38:22.380
And the appropriate mature response is one of honesty.
00:38:27.100
And in this case, it might be, hmm, you know what, Kip?
00:38:36.800
Or, oh, I never thought about that, but what about this?
00:38:40.440
And maybe I counter that because there's an issue that you haven't thought about.
00:38:44.540
And what's interesting is when you start doing it like that, more people will be open to
00:38:51.000
So, if I say something, then you counter it, then I counter it respectfully, and then it
00:38:57.700
But when you start shutting down and shutting people off, interrupting them, telling them
00:39:02.620
they're wrong, telling them why your way is the best, then they're going to start digging
00:39:12.820
At the end of the day, I still have to make a decision as to whether or not I adopt it because
00:39:17.740
And in this case, our scenario here, it's my podcast.
00:39:21.780
So, I can take your feedback and then sit out and say, oh, he was right about that.
00:39:26.480
And then I'm going to give you credit for it and talk with you about it.
00:39:28.900
Or, if I don't implement it, depending on our relationship, I might say, hey, Kip, you
00:39:35.820
But for what I'm trying to accomplish, I think this is better.
00:39:46.480
I mean, first off, Bob, I mean, the fact that the way you ask the question is perfect, right?
00:39:56.260
But I also don't want to lose myself and my own perspectives that I might strongly agree
00:40:07.020
And by the way, I think we lose this when we're not self-aware enough, when the communication
00:40:13.840
isn't about being curious, when the communication's around me trying to convince Ryan to agree with
00:40:26.040
Like, if we're not even in that space realizing why we're arguing, we're already lost.
00:40:32.160
And I know you're not there, Bob, because it's obvious in the way you ask this question.
00:40:37.020
But some people, they'll get in debates and arguments about opinions and ideas because
00:40:46.600
They're not even there to understand someone's perspective.
00:40:50.220
They're there to try to change someone else for their own benefit.
00:40:52.800
They're not even aware of the human condition of why they're even doing it.
00:40:56.980
So maybe a challenge for the non-Bob's listening is like, if you're getting fired up,
00:41:02.100
if you're angry in a debate where you're sharing ideas, why?
00:41:11.020
What does it say about you if someone disagrees with you?
00:41:18.940
Why is your identity tied to that idea so harshly?
00:41:25.300
Understand why you're getting emotionally charged.
00:41:27.600
And mark my word, it's centered in some form of self-validation that has nothing to do with
00:41:32.740
really the argument and you need to be aware of that so you can understand what you're
00:41:38.200
bringing to a conversation and why you're getting fired up sometimes when people see
00:41:43.360
We shouldn't be upset if someone sees something different.
00:41:49.000
We do it because of some other undermining issue.
00:41:58.200
You see this a lot when you start talking about religion is when politics is obviously
00:42:04.200
You know, if I have a specific religious belief, Christianity, for example, and I have a friend
00:42:11.040
who maybe is Jewish, he can think what he wants to think and I can think what I want to think.
00:42:18.880
And his belief doesn't impact or undermine mine.
00:42:28.680
And maybe he wants to make his case as to why the Old Testament is the only source of God's word.
00:42:33.540
And maybe I want to talk about the New Testament.
00:42:36.800
And then we can both see each other's points of view or not or revert to what we already believed.
00:42:45.740
And it's funny that you said that because as you were saying that, I wrote down a word here
00:42:53.000
If I need you to believe what I believe in order for me to be validated, then I'm insecure about my belief.
00:43:00.360
And what that means is that I don't believe strongly enough about whatever my particular position is.
00:43:07.360
Maybe I'm questioning in myself and I'm trying to convince myself and others because the alternative is scary.
00:43:14.580
You see this a lot in people who leave particular churches or denominations where they want to be validated because it's scary.
00:43:22.520
It's scary to leave something that you've known your entire life or been taught, especially in the context of religion,
00:43:31.580
Or if you leave, your family is going to ostracize you.
00:43:36.380
There are some very real consequences to making some of these decisions.
00:43:41.920
And so you do need that validation or you seek for that validation because you're not sure enough yourself.
00:43:52.280
And you'll see evidence of this in all areas of life where you're like, oh, got it.
00:44:00.840
I mean, I've had a conversation with people around politics where someone like started crying and you're like, why?
00:44:10.180
Like, is yourself, if you're, and I said this internally to myself, I wouldn't say this out loud because they would perceive it wrong.
00:44:16.620
But it was like, so by me disagreeing with your political viewpoint, do you feel like you're less than?
00:44:24.160
Like, have you given that power over to your presidential candidate or your political party?
00:44:35.000
Like, your worth in life is actually tied to a political group?
00:44:44.220
You're like, man, we should probably be aware of that.
00:44:55.120
If you get into political debate with Kip, he's going to make you cry.
00:45:07.720
Working through the battle planner, will, full disclosure, I have no idea what he's talking about.
00:45:13.640
Will you be releasing a new version where the CP are represented by each quadrant and days are filled in the weekly tracker?
00:45:31.140
Represented by each quadrant and days are filled in the weekly tracker.
00:45:35.720
Well, it is represented by each quadrant, so already.
00:45:40.120
So if in the battle planner, if you go to it, and I'm pulling up mine right here, let me go to-
00:45:47.260
Yeah, I mean, on the right page, so you have, let's take calibration.
00:45:51.200
So calibration is your mental, emotional, and spiritual health.
00:45:58.440
Then you have your three, or excuse me, your checkboxes for each day.
00:46:03.420
And then right under that, it says next checkpoint, next CP.
00:46:12.240
So let's say, for example, I want to lose 30 pounds.
00:46:21.300
Well, my first checkpoint, my 30-day checkpoint, is going to be that I'm down 10 pounds.
00:46:29.420
You know, by, in 30 days, I need to be 200, or excuse me, 180 pounds.
00:46:38.900
And then the progress is, hey, my next checkpoint, maybe we're two weeks into it already.
00:46:45.340
So, so I should be down 10 pounds by the end of the month.
00:46:53.200
So that, that just means in the next two weeks, I need to lose three more pounds.
00:46:56.540
So I'm not really quite sure what he's asking, because I think it's kind of already built
00:47:04.840
And Russ, maybe reach out and we can, we can provide some more clarity.
00:47:07.900
I think for those people listening though, maybe a value add is, you know, in the IC
00:47:12.540
and what we do on the battle plans, you gotta, you gotta track progress, right?
00:47:19.140
I always use this analogy, Ryan, if, you know, at the order of man events, sometimes we'll
00:47:26.320
And if you and I went out into a field and we had no target and we're like, hey, let's
00:47:38.440
After like two shots, we'd be like, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm bored and I'm done.
00:47:45.920
But we put a target up all of a sudden, it's like, we could shoot arrows for hours and it's
00:47:52.260
There's value in knowing that you're tracking and progressing, right?
00:47:56.180
And, and that's kind of a fundamental principle within the Iron Council and the battle plan is
00:48:00.700
that we're tracking and we know that we're progressing.
00:48:03.720
And these checkpoints are kind of like major milestones in that direction of the ultimate
00:48:12.000
Well, what's interesting about it is we crave it so much that if we don't have that target
00:48:16.560
in there, we'll start doing things to make it up.
00:48:18.540
So for example, I imagine if you and I took our bows out and there's no target, we'd say,
00:48:30.920
Let's see who can get it closest to that rock right there or that tree.
00:48:37.240
So we crave this as, as men, we crave having something to aim at.
00:48:42.000
So instead of just like shooting for what happens to be out there, maybe be a little bit more
00:48:50.060
So I don't know that we answered his question just because I don't understand it.
00:48:53.400
So like you said, Kip, he can reach out and you guys can check out the battle planner at
00:48:57.980
orderofman.com slash battle planner to see exactly what we're talking about.
00:49:02.060
And maybe you have some thoughts or recommendations as well.
00:49:06.100
And then we talked about order of man events earlier.
00:49:09.000
The key to stay aware of those is to go to the website, sign up for the newsletter, orderofman.com,
00:49:15.340
as well as staying connected with Ryan on X and Instagram at Ryan Mickler.
00:49:21.240
So when new events come along or release of new t-shirts and other things, you know,
00:49:30.280
We come out with it every Tuesday and there's discount codes, updates about events.
00:49:35.560
We'll give you a synopsis of the podcast we've done for the week.
00:49:39.800
And then we usually put in there a thought, you know, something to think about with,
00:49:46.880
Yeah, so if you just go to orderofman.com, you can check it out.
00:49:54.040
As always, hopefully we gave you some, some things to consider.
00:49:57.520
I, you know, the question that I really thought stood out to me, Kip,
00:50:04.400
I really liked the question about, I can't remember his name, John, maybe,
00:50:08.420
who has the 13 and five-year-old niece and nephew.
00:50:13.020
I think that was, for me, that was the question of the day.
00:50:15.340
That was the one that stood out because, to me, that's a man who, Grant, okay.
00:50:20.400
So Grant, based on his question, is a man who's interested in being the man that he needs to be.
00:50:27.320
And in the absence of other men who should be in that role and should be stepping up,
00:50:31.600
who are not, he's decided that he's going to take it upon himself to do that.
00:50:35.440
And I think that underscores what we talk about here in Order of Man.
00:50:40.640
And I just wanted to acknowledge Grant for the great question and the good work that he's going to do with those kids.
00:50:48.660
That resonated and awesome, right, that he's tackling that.
00:50:59.280
Until then, go out there, take action, and become the man you are meant to be.
00:51:02.580
Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.
00:51:09.420
If you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you are meant to be,
00:51:13.440
we invite you to join the Order at orderofman.com.