Order of Man - Mastering Feedback, Boundaries, and Family Mentoring ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 Am I going to sit down and waste my time doing a performance review with Joe?

00:00:04.640 No, I'm just going to fire him.

00:00:06.060 People don't invest in others that they're indifferent to.

00:00:09.600 We just don't.

00:00:11.440 So that's a good thing.

00:00:12.620 So I wouldn't go in there and start thinking about it as criticism.

00:00:16.400 I would reframe that and say, hey, you know what?

00:00:18.400 My boss still cares about me.

00:00:19.780 My boss still is interested in my improvement.

00:00:22.220 Because if it's your boss and he believes something, then his perception is reality.

00:00:26.860 You're a man of action.

00:00:30.560 You live life to the fullest.

00:00:32.020 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:34.700 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time.

00:00:38.380 Every time.

00:00:39.440 You are not easily deterred or defeated.

00:00:41.700 Rugged.

00:00:42.500 Resilient.

00:00:43.440 Strong.

00:00:44.480 This is your life.

00:00:45.560 This is who you are.

00:00:46.980 This is who you will become.

00:00:48.700 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:55.220 Kip, what's up, brother?

00:00:56.060 Great to see you.

00:00:57.180 I think we're both a little bit, I don't know, I'm feeling a little flustered this morning

00:01:01.740 trying to get Monday going.

00:01:02.920 It feels like you might be experiencing the same thing.

00:01:05.740 Yeah.

00:01:06.120 Yeah, probably.

00:01:06.820 Do you have a long weekend at all?

00:01:08.440 Fourth, 24th?

00:01:10.980 Well, I went up to Salt Lake and we watched some lacrosse this weekend, which was amazing.

00:01:16.220 The PLL.

00:01:17.220 So the professional, our premier lacrosse league.

00:01:19.840 So it was a good time, man.

00:01:21.960 It was blazing hot up there at 4.30 in the afternoon.

00:01:24.860 But other than that, once it cooled off, it was actually really good.

00:01:30.440 All the boys or just Brecken or what?

00:01:33.740 Yeah.

00:01:34.220 So Brecken brought two of his buddies with him.

00:01:38.420 And yeah, we all had a really good time.

00:01:41.060 And I brought someone as well.

00:01:43.580 And so we had a great time and enjoyed ourselves.

00:01:46.500 And life was good.

00:01:47.960 Yeah.

00:01:48.400 Not bad.

00:01:49.340 Life can't be bad.

00:01:50.280 Shouldn't complain anyway.

00:01:52.380 How about you?

00:01:52.760 Any good plans this weekend?

00:01:54.120 Well, you can.

00:01:54.580 Yeah, we went up.

00:01:55.040 Nobody cares about it if you did.

00:01:56.860 Victor Driggs area of Idaho on the backside of the Tetons.

00:02:01.580 Oh, really?

00:02:02.320 Cool.

00:02:02.520 Up there for the weekend.

00:02:03.300 Yeah.

00:02:03.660 Up in a cabin and spent some time with family.

00:02:07.600 Did some tough hiking.

00:02:09.540 So there's some awesome wind caves up in that area that are just insane.

00:02:15.080 It just blows my mind that people go through this mountain that's a mile deep with ropes

00:02:21.580 in these caves.

00:02:22.740 It's just gnarly.

00:02:23.900 Oh, really?

00:02:24.120 Just, yeah.

00:02:24.600 Super cool stuff.

00:02:25.020 Did you guys do that?

00:02:26.280 We went in like a few hundred yards just to-

00:02:29.000 Right, yeah.

00:02:29.760 Yeah, enjoy it a little bit.

00:02:31.260 Once I felt like I couldn't fit-

00:02:32.180 It's pretty incredible.

00:02:33.360 We turned around, yeah.

00:02:35.760 Well, you're familiar with that.

00:02:37.540 One of our events, we threw you down on the bottom of a cave for probably about three hours

00:02:42.340 and just let you sit there by yourself in the dark.

00:02:44.460 Yeah.

00:02:44.820 Which is exactly what I think you needed, so that's why we chose you to do it.

00:02:49.120 Full disclosure, and I don't want to share too much of a story, I actually was concerned

00:02:53.080 about that.

00:02:53.640 I remember that we had a team meeting the night before the event, or that day, and we're

00:02:58.640 talking about what we're going to do.

00:03:00.140 And I'm like, and I was sitting there, and I thought, am I going to freak out sitting

00:03:04.820 in the mountain for hours on end and just in a really tight spot?

00:03:09.400 I really honestly considered if I would freak out.

00:03:13.000 Once we got in there, I'm like, this is awesome.

00:03:14.960 I loved it.

00:03:15.740 It was pretty incredible.

00:03:16.340 I wanted to stay in there longer.

00:03:17.780 Yeah, it was weird.

00:03:19.240 I think those caves are shut down, but for those guys listening that might not know what

00:03:23.200 we're talking about, there's these caves in Southern Utah, and we did one of our events,

00:03:27.220 and you basically climb straight down into the ground, and I can't remember the distance.

00:03:32.900 You climb down in one area, and it's pretty well marked with splatter paint and fluorescent

00:03:40.360 lights and paint and all that kind of stuff down in the bottom of the caves, and then you

00:03:43.800 come out at a different end of the cave.

00:03:45.600 It might be a mile or something.

00:03:47.240 I don't know.

00:03:47.540 But there's some parts in it where you climb down in it, and you're belly crawling to get

00:03:52.640 under a gap that's probably, what, two feet at most, and you're belly crawling several

00:03:59.620 hundred yards and trying to squeeze through tight places, and if you're claustrophobic,

00:04:04.200 it's rough.

00:04:05.280 But it was a lot of fun, man.

00:04:06.340 That was one of my favorite activities.

00:04:08.160 Yeah, it was a great event.

00:04:09.240 That's the legacy event, the father and son event.

00:04:11.920 It was great.

00:04:12.720 That's right.

00:04:13.200 Yeah, so we've got another one coming online here in the fall and in the spring, so I'll

00:04:17.180 let everybody know when that is, but yeah, let's get to some questions today, man.

00:04:20.740 Yeah, absolutely.

00:04:22.040 So John Pedroza, so I just started a new job overseas.

00:04:27.140 My boss recognizes that I have skills far above my current position.

00:04:31.160 He recommended to me that I apply for the job that is several layers above what I currently

00:04:36.080 do.

00:04:36.920 Now, I don't doubt that I can do the job.

00:04:39.240 It's way outside of my comfort zone and would entail knowledge and skills that I don't

00:04:43.720 currently possess.

00:04:44.760 I am confident to know that I don't know everything, but I am also a fast learner.

00:04:50.920 Do you suggest that I apply for the position and learn as I go, or should I stick to incremental

00:04:56.200 growth steps?

00:04:59.820 I mean, come on.

00:05:02.480 Come on.

00:05:03.840 Full disclosure, John may have not been listening to the podcast long enough to know maybe what

00:05:08.680 your default response would be, but.

00:05:11.480 Yeah, of course you should apply for the better job.

00:05:14.340 There's a couple of things that stood out to me.

00:05:16.600 You said, I don't doubt that I have what it takes to do the new job.

00:05:20.220 That's one thing you said.

00:05:21.540 Yeah.

00:05:21.780 I'm paraphrasing.

00:05:22.780 You also said you're a fast learner.

00:05:25.060 You also said something about you being confident.

00:05:28.100 What is the problem?

00:05:30.300 Those are, that's the recipe for success right there.

00:05:33.360 I mean, you're humble and confident enough to learn.

00:05:35.980 Right.

00:05:37.680 So I think, I think, yes, obviously you should apply for the job.

00:05:43.700 Incremental learning is, or incremental progress is for losers who can't do it any faster.

00:05:49.140 Like if you can skip the line, so to speak, James Altucher wrote a book called Skip the

00:05:53.320 Line.

00:05:53.600 If you can skip the line, you ought to skip the line because here's why you owe it to

00:05:58.800 yourself.

00:06:00.540 You owe it to your boss because he sees something in you.

00:06:03.660 You owe it to your company because you can obviously serve the company and you owe it to

00:06:08.640 the people that you have a responsibility for.

00:06:10.540 If you're married and have kids, what are you going to tell your wife?

00:06:13.080 Hey hon, we could have had this better opportunity, but I decided to take it slow and safe instead.

00:06:17.580 Can you, can you look your wife in the face and tell her that that was the best decision? 0.96

00:06:22.680 And I know I'm, it's might sound a little harsh, but that's the reality.

00:06:27.000 You owe this to everybody, including yourself.

00:06:30.740 So of course you should go for the, and if you don't get it, then you're on the path anyway.

00:06:36.020 So it's fine.

00:06:36.860 There's no loss here.

00:06:38.680 Yeah.

00:06:38.940 And that's the other part.

00:06:39.940 I mean, you, you don't have the job where you're, you're just talking about applying

00:06:42.840 for it.

00:06:43.220 You're not out anything even applying.

00:06:45.020 And you said it's weight.

00:06:46.820 It's outside my comfort zone.

00:06:48.340 You know this, John.

00:06:49.980 Awesome.

00:06:50.520 That's where growth is.

00:06:51.860 And the incremental steps probably isn't that uncomfortable, at least not uncomfortable

00:06:56.900 enough for rapid growth.

00:06:59.140 Yeah.

00:06:59.540 So embrace it.

00:07:00.340 So yeah, go for it.

00:07:01.780 And then just default back to the path that you were on.

00:07:04.400 But yeah, if you can, I mean, it's like asking if you're a baseball player and you're like,

00:07:08.300 you know, I'm really capable of hitting a home run on this pitch, but I think I'm going

00:07:11.300 to hit a single instead.

00:07:13.800 Like, no, no, hit the home run.

00:07:17.060 Now, if you get a single, that's great, but definitely hit the home run if you can.

00:07:22.680 Yeah.

00:07:23.520 Yeah.

00:07:24.180 And props to your boss, John, for seeing that in you and suggesting it to you.

00:07:29.460 I mean, you look, that's, that's actually something that we ought to pull out of this 0.99

00:07:33.300 is how many times, Kip, do you and I get questions where my boss is an asshole, my boss 1.00

00:07:37.940 is a jerk, my boss doesn't appreciate my boss this, my boss that. 1.00

00:07:41.140 John's like, Hey, my boss told me I'm good. 1.00

00:07:44.280 He's telling me to apply for this job.

00:07:47.640 That's not common.

00:07:49.020 So be aware of that and really respect and honor him because he sees something in you.

00:07:53.740 And I think there's, there's something there for sure.

00:07:56.200 Yeah.

00:07:57.040 Yeah.

00:07:57.680 All right.

00:07:58.320 Grant Grinsvig, I think.

00:08:02.660 Grinsvig.

00:08:03.620 Yeah.

00:08:03.820 I looked it up.

00:08:05.040 So Grant, hopefully.

00:08:06.080 Oh, you did.

00:08:06.460 Why did you look it up?

00:08:07.480 Because you usually don't look up names.

00:08:08.720 So I, well, his pronunciation is way like the, the spelling of his last name is odd.

00:08:14.760 So I'm like, I have no idea.

00:08:16.480 Yeah.

00:08:16.680 I better.

00:08:17.000 I didn't know if you had like an affinity for his name or, or what it like.

00:08:21.280 No, I didn't want to slaughter too much.

00:08:23.080 Or ethnicity it might be.

00:08:24.080 Got it.

00:08:24.360 Okay.

00:08:24.500 All right.

00:08:25.960 Wanting to be a good male influence for my wife's sister's kids, 13 female, five-year-old

00:08:32.560 male.

00:08:33.380 They both have different dads who are not the best role models or in the picture at all.

00:08:37.760 How can I show up for them while also not overstepping and being that weird uncle?

00:08:44.100 So what are the, so the ages are 13 and 15?

00:08:46.980 Yes.

00:08:48.040 And then a 13-year-old girl, 15-year-old boy?

00:08:51.420 No, 13-year-old girl, five-year-old boy.

00:08:55.480 Oh, five-year-old boy.

00:08:56.580 I thought 15.

00:08:57.320 Okay.

00:08:57.520 So five-year-old boy.

00:08:59.260 Okay.

00:08:59.780 So, and this is your wife's sister's kids is what I heard.

00:09:05.780 Is that correct?

00:09:07.240 Yes.

00:09:08.500 Okay.

00:09:09.880 Here's what I would suggest first.

00:09:12.120 Depending on the relationship you have with your sister-in-law, you, you should talk with

00:09:17.920 her because if you talk with her, she might really be on board with you stepping up in

00:09:24.340 some really powerful ways.

00:09:25.420 Because the, the single women that I I've met and the single women who listen to this 0.68

00:09:30.320 podcast are very much on board with having a good, strong male presence in their young

00:09:38.500 children's lives.

00:09:40.000 Without exception, everybody I've heard from or that I'm associated with in some way definitely

00:09:46.080 wants that.

00:09:47.040 So it would be hard for me to believe that she wouldn't be interested in that.

00:09:51.820 Now, what that means might differ between person to person, but I think every single

00:09:56.700 mother out there is, is interested in having a good, strong male presence in their kids' 1.00

00:10:00.960 lives.

00:10:01.160 And if that's the case, and if you guys have a good relationship, then she might tell you

00:10:06.580 what she's looking for, or she might give you some insight into what the 13 year old

00:10:11.700 girl is going through or, or, um, how the five-year-old boy is progressing.

00:10:17.080 And with that insight and blessing that might give you a clear direction on how you can lead

00:10:23.100 those young kids, because you're right.

00:10:25.060 If you just go in there and, you know, exert your will in some way, if she's not on board

00:10:30.000 with that, she might be threatened by that.

00:10:32.700 She might not like the way you're doing it.

00:10:34.600 She might be confused as to why you're doing it.

00:10:37.380 Um, everybody might be confused why you're doing it.

00:10:40.560 So I think the first step here is to communicate.

00:10:43.600 Well, I'd say this first with your wife, because your wife's going to give you some insight 0.99

00:10:47.880 because it's her sister that you might not be privy to right now.

00:10:50.880 And then if she's on board with that, then I would probably connect with your sister-in-law.

00:10:56.360 And if she's on board, then you guys can formulate a plan.

00:10:59.260 And maybe it's taking your 13 year old niece, uh, to lunch once a week, but that might be

00:11:04.920 an idea that her mother comes up with, or maybe it's taking the five-year-old boy to the

00:11:10.220 movies this weekend.

00:11:11.120 But again, that might be a decision the mother comes up with, not you just exerting your will.

00:11:16.580 That's how I would approach it.

00:11:17.760 Because, you know, it's, it's sensitive, a 13 year old girl, that's, that's a sensitive

00:11:22.220 issue, right?

00:11:23.200 And so there's some things there that we need to be aware of and you need to make sure the

00:11:26.280 mother is included in that.

00:11:27.940 Yeah.

00:11:28.260 And you start injecting yourself that people may freak out or weird, weird out.

00:11:33.080 Yeah, for sure.

00:11:34.300 Do you have some general, I don't know, rules of thumb or just suggestions on increasing your

00:11:41.200 influence with young people?

00:11:42.600 So let's, let's assume mom and dad, everyone's aligned.

00:11:47.020 They're like, Hey, it's solid.

00:11:48.620 Love, love it.

00:11:50.100 How does he put himself in a position?

00:11:52.380 What recommendations did you have to be influential with them?

00:11:56.200 I would say the most important thing is to be interested in whatever they're interested

00:11:59.620 in.

00:12:01.200 So, and, and by the way, it doesn't mean you have to be an expert.

00:12:04.440 So let's say the 13 year old girl, I'll just be like stereotypical. 0.99

00:12:09.760 Let's say she's really into dance or cheer.

00:12:12.980 Okay.

00:12:13.260 The odds of you being into dance or cheer are significantly low.

00:12:18.060 So, however, if it was a 13 year old boy and he's really into basketball, okay.

00:12:24.120 If, if, if I were in those shoes, I could definitely resonate more with that than I can

00:12:28.280 cheerleading.

00:12:29.740 But just because you don't know a subject doesn't mean you can't be interested in it.

00:12:34.440 And the best way to show interest is to be interested.

00:12:38.800 When are tryouts?

00:12:39.920 What are you afraid of?

00:12:41.080 How's it going?

00:12:42.120 How do your, how does your team look this year?

00:12:44.440 What are you most looking forward to?

00:12:46.500 What move are you working on?

00:12:48.340 How have you improved?

00:12:48.480 Yeah.

00:12:48.940 Another, that's a great one.

00:12:50.380 Yeah.

00:12:50.680 So if you can just ask questions that pertain to that child, then that child is going to

00:12:56.940 believe and know rightfully that you are indeed interested in them.

00:13:01.820 Um, and then from there, once you start to understand a little bit more about who that

00:13:06.980 child is and what that child is interested in, then you can cater discussions or small

00:13:12.620 things like small tokens that you're thinking about them or appreciate them or show up to

00:13:16.840 their, to the dance recital.

00:13:18.920 Um, but, but you have to enter their world first.

00:13:22.580 You can't expect them to come into your world and be thrilled about it, especially if they

00:13:27.740 don't know you.

00:13:28.300 So yeah, I love it.

00:13:30.480 The only thing that, that comes to mind, I'm probably saying this more for myself than

00:13:34.000 him is just, just be fun.

00:13:37.380 Be, be lighthearted.

00:13:38.860 You know, I have a tendency to get like, Oh, I'm going to get really intense with them

00:13:42.240 and we're going to have straight, like a great relationship.

00:13:44.360 It's like, it doesn't work that way.

00:13:45.760 You have to be enjoyable.

00:13:47.000 So, um, maybe be lighthearted as part of that.

00:13:50.760 And quite frankly, you haven't earned the right to be intense with those kids yet.

00:13:54.680 Yeah.

00:13:55.700 You know, you, you have to earn that, that right to do that.

00:13:58.440 I've thought about this.

00:13:59.600 I don't know where I heard this, but years and years ago, uh, when I was really studying

00:14:04.740 a lot of public speaking, um, I had coaches and I had people that were good at public speaking.

00:14:10.520 And one of the things that I heard is that if you start asking your audience members,

00:14:14.820 things, questions that you haven't earned the right to ask, you'll hear crickets.

00:14:18.660 And you see that sometimes you'll see a presenter ask a question and nobody answers it.

00:14:22.920 That's because you haven't earned the right to their answer yet.

00:14:27.040 But if, if, if you engage them and you entertain them and you educate them and you get them

00:14:34.480 on the edge of their seat and you, and you add value, and then you can see that you're

00:14:39.140 building up rapport and trust and influence with them.

00:14:41.800 And then you were to ask a question maybe later in the presentation, after you've developed

00:14:45.860 some level of trust, you're going to notice you're going to get a lot more engagement and

00:14:49.360 feedback when you ask for feedback from the audience, because to a degree you've earned

00:14:53.860 the right to their participation, but everybody's a little bit wary when it's anything new, even

00:15:00.900 if it's something they signed up for.

00:15:02.720 Yeah, no, I love that.

00:15:04.380 Well, and I can see the correlation between just even work at relationships.

00:15:08.320 You know, we talk about this, about being in a position of, of influence as a leader.

00:15:12.600 You're, that's what you're talking about is like, do you have an established relationship?

00:15:16.680 You can't, you can't have difficult conversations sometimes with people if you haven't earned

00:15:22.000 that right yet.

00:15:23.180 Right.

00:15:23.660 And you might just be using your authority and it's going to undermine you.

00:15:26.360 Yeah.

00:15:26.920 That's great.

00:15:28.140 Yeah.

00:15:28.440 I love that analogy.

00:15:29.860 Rick Donovan, um, how is the iron council different today than it was when you began 10 years

00:15:36.360 ago?

00:15:37.200 When did you foresee the number of men whose lives have been changed by it?

00:15:42.600 And did you foresee the number of men?

00:15:45.940 Yeah, no, I didn't foresee that.

00:15:47.640 I didn't start it for that reason, order a man for that reason. 1.00

00:15:50.460 I started selfishly because I wanted to talk with interesting people that could help me

00:15:55.420 be better.

00:15:56.820 And I, and basically what I said is I have this podcast.

00:15:59.880 I never lied, but I said, I have this podcast where I'm going to record our conversation.

00:16:04.160 And the implication was that I was going to share it with my audience.

00:16:07.840 What they didn't know is I didn't have an audience at that time, but it quickly grew

00:16:11.900 into an audience.

00:16:13.920 And, uh, you know, so yeah, that's why I started it.

00:16:17.680 So I had no idea we'd be able to impact literally millions of men all across the world at this

00:16:22.220 point over 10 years.

00:16:23.360 And I'm very grateful for the opportunity to be able to do it.

00:16:26.400 But, uh, how has it changed?

00:16:29.200 I mean, it's changed in a lot of ways.

00:16:31.600 The premise is still the same to equip men with the tools, resources, and conversations

00:16:36.160 they need to thrive and win in their lives.

00:16:38.340 The premise is always the same and has always been the same and will always be the way we

00:16:43.600 administer is what changes.

00:16:44.900 So for example, one thing that we did when we very first started is it was kind of just

00:16:49.220 a free for all.

00:16:49.920 So men would come in and there was 12 guys and then there was 80 guys and then there

00:16:54.640 was 200 guys and there was 600 guys.

00:16:56.600 And it was like a free for all right up until the point we got to about 83 members.

00:17:01.040 And I remember that number specifically.

00:17:03.380 I don't know why, but that's the number where I, I remember thinking, man, I don't know who

00:17:09.040 some of these guys are anymore.

00:17:10.660 I don't even know who they are.

00:17:12.360 Yeah.

00:17:12.720 And so it started to lose some of its intimacy.

00:17:15.180 And so I thought, well, what would be cool is if we could leverage this and I could have

00:17:19.880 men work together side by side.

00:17:22.280 So if Kip, you and I were in the Iron Council, you and me would be partnered up.

00:17:26.700 And then the idea is that we would hold each other accountable.

00:17:29.380 But that didn't work because if one of the partners wasn't interested in participating to

00:17:35.140 the same level that the other partner was, then both partners felt frustrated about their

00:17:40.660 experience in the Iron Council.

00:17:41.700 So I was listening to a podcast from Jocko and he was talking about fire teams and fire

00:17:46.960 teams in the military are small teams of men that work together to complete a larger objective.

00:17:51.540 And there's all sorts of fire teams completing their assignments and missions, but they're

00:17:56.660 working side by side or as counterparts to fulfill a greater mission.

00:18:00.820 And I thought, man, that's really cool.

00:18:02.120 So we developed what we call battle teams and battle teams are groups of 12 to 15 men who

00:18:08.460 work side by side to hold each other accountable, a little bit more of a familiar and intimate

00:18:13.560 connection, which you need.

00:18:14.800 You need that trust and credibility and authority with people.

00:18:18.020 And the idea really took off.

00:18:20.880 And so we've quadrupled down on the concept of battle teams inside the Iron Council.

00:18:26.320 So a lot of the times when you join certain groups, it is just a free-for-all.

00:18:31.580 It's like you show up, there's a leader of the organization, he spouts off about whatever

00:18:35.880 he's going to spout off about, and then that's it.

00:18:39.400 But inside of what we do, it's not the Ryan Council, it's the Iron Council.

00:18:45.480 We're all sharpening each other.

00:18:47.180 So I found really good ways to leverage the credibility, the expertise, the knowledge

00:18:55.780 and know-how of other men, and allowed them to work together in a very systematic way to

00:19:00.900 achieve results.

00:19:01.700 That's probably the biggest change that we've had since we started.

00:19:05.560 And there's other things, but that's the most notable and significant.

00:19:09.720 What do you think it is, Kip?

00:19:11.100 You've been around for a long time.

00:19:12.180 Man, I mean, I just think it's kind of the caliber of the guys have obviously changed.

00:19:21.220 You know, a lot of these battle team leaders, some of them have been here for a really long

00:19:25.700 time, right?

00:19:27.560 And so I remember the early days, you know, we have some conflict on a team.

00:19:32.400 It was kind of like, haven't ran into this before, you know what I mean?

00:19:36.740 But we got some reps in. 0.98

00:19:38.740 Yeah, there's not too many new scenarios or issues that arise that we're like, we haven't

00:19:45.640 seen it.

00:19:47.060 So I think we're seasoned from that perspective.

00:19:50.760 System changes, you know, come and go, you know what I mean?

00:19:54.780 But one thing that I've always appreciated about you, and I think this has always been

00:19:59.200 true, is, you know, battle team leaders, they own their team.

00:20:04.660 They feel like they do.

00:20:05.740 I mean, there's a level of pride in regards to that team.

00:20:10.340 There's a level of responsibility placed on them, and they want those teams to be successful.

00:20:16.800 They take it very personal.

00:20:18.220 They're not just ticket takers, like, doing a job.

00:20:21.120 I mean, it's a very sought-after role in the Iron Council, and men take it very serious.

00:20:27.120 And it's a heart of love.

00:20:29.040 I mean, those guys put a lot of effort and time into leading teams, and it's really important

00:20:35.040 to them.

00:20:36.160 And because of that, I think the Iron Council has continued to be successful because of

00:20:41.260 that single factor.

00:20:44.460 I mean, yeah, that's good to know.

00:20:46.320 When you said a responsibility, I agree.

00:20:48.200 I place a lot of responsibility on these guys.

00:20:50.240 And ultimately, I have to because I'm the one telling people to come join the Iron Council.

00:20:54.980 And if I have a bunch of guys, and they're not doing their job, then that's a reflection

00:20:59.240 upon me, which I'm not willing to jeopardize or sacrifice.

00:21:02.900 But I will say the other thing, and I think you alluded to this, and this is a leadership

00:21:06.960 principle, is not only do you have to give people responsibility, but you have to give

00:21:11.360 them autonomy and authority.

00:21:12.940 So, for example, if I put a bunch of responsibility on your shoulders, Kip, to manage this podcast,

00:21:20.160 for example, but I didn't give you the authority to be able to execute your job, then that's

00:21:25.460 not good leadership.

00:21:26.520 Like, why would you, as a person, accept the burden of responsibility without the authority

00:21:31.980 to do anything about it?

00:21:34.020 So, I give these guys a lot of authority to act on my behalf.

00:21:38.960 So, I need to trust them, and they need to trust me, and if things don't work out, we

00:21:43.400 need to come up with a solution, because both of us are going to be impacted, and then the

00:21:47.500 other guys who are on their teams are going to be impacted.

00:21:49.740 But you can't give people responsibility, because that is a burden in a lot of cases, without

00:21:55.660 the accompanying authority to do something about it.

00:21:58.540 Yeah.

00:21:58.980 It's just disempowering if you don't have it.

00:22:01.640 It's frustrating, to say the least.

00:22:03.160 Well, and I think, I was going to say something about the IC.

00:22:08.380 I mean, I, oh man, what was the thought I was going to, oh darn it, I'm going to space 0.79

00:22:14.580 it.

00:22:15.180 I was just going to say, you know, it is, it is not just like a labor of love, but like

00:22:23.840 even these, these men that are in battle team leader roles, the, the amount of growth that

00:22:29.840 they get is substantial, right?

00:22:32.100 And, and the point that I wanted to make is, life shows up in the IC.

00:22:36.300 That's one of the, my favorite things about it, is if you're struggling with holding someone

00:22:42.200 accountable, guess what?

00:22:43.540 In the Iron Council, when you're on a team, that's going to show up for you.

00:22:47.260 If you're hesitant to speak up when you know you should, guess what?

00:22:50.900 That's going to show up in the Iron Council too.

00:22:53.320 Whatever you're struggling with in your day-to-day, the Iron Council gives you the reps to flush it

00:22:59.120 out and work through it.

00:23:00.600 Life shows up here.

00:23:02.140 And so it's not like this kumbaya, you know, nest of protection where we don't have any

00:23:09.040 struggles and hardships.

00:23:10.080 No, absolutely.

00:23:11.480 But if you're having those hardships here, guess what?

00:23:14.460 You're having them more likely in life as well.

00:23:18.460 And, and, and if you're struggling here, you need to address it here so you can address

00:23:22.180 it outside of the IC.

00:23:24.320 And that's, that's one of the best benefits of it as well.

00:23:26.880 Well, it's, it's interesting because I was going through, I was plugging away at some

00:23:32.800 numbers here.

00:23:34.880 And I try to be as transparent as I can on this and I don't want to get too stuck on

00:23:38.500 this, but I want to say one other thing.

00:23:39.860 You know, it's roughly a thousand dollars a year, maybe a little bit less depending on

00:23:44.300 which, which package you get or whatever.

00:23:46.980 But let's just say it's a thousand for the sake of argument.

00:23:50.100 Divided by 365 days a year, that's $2.79.

00:23:53.260 So for $2.79, you get a day, you get all your brotherhood, you get constant communication,

00:24:03.860 you get access to Kip, you and me, you get accountability, you get the battle planning

00:24:08.360 app, you get the tools and systems and resources, you get a late night phone call with your friends

00:24:14.020 and brothers that you need if, if you're struggling.

00:24:16.200 And people will be like, Oh my God, a thousand dollars.

00:24:19.600 Look, I don't know your financial situation and I'm not here to make light of it or, or

00:24:23.820 assume I know what it is, but how many people will balk at a thousand dollars a year or $2.79

00:24:29.940 a day for something that's drastically going to improve their life.

00:24:34.020 I mean, you're going to pay off debt, uh, thousands and thousands of dollars of debt.

00:24:38.140 That enough is, that alone is enough.

00:24:40.540 You're going to lose 20, 30, 40, 50, 80 pounds.

00:24:44.020 You're going to read a dozen books this year.

00:24:46.340 And who knows how that's going to positively impact your life.

00:24:48.760 You're going to get promotions.

00:24:49.820 You're going to build your relationship with your wife.

00:24:51.940 You're going to be more connected with your kids.

00:24:53.300 You're going to get laid more often, like pick what's worth $2.79 a day.

00:24:57.760 So they'll balk at that, but they'll every day, every single day, they'll stop by Starbucks

00:25:04.360 and spend $8 on a mocha frappuccino, latte, oat milk, soy infused, whatever.

00:25:14.960 It's like, and I'm not here to judge that decision that you can buy whatever you want,

00:25:21.120 but think about where your money is being deployed.

00:25:25.060 And is it currently being deployed in the best possible avenues?

00:25:32.760 Because if it's not, then you should make some changes or maybe don't complain so much

00:25:38.780 about your life.

00:25:40.200 Yeah.

00:25:41.060 Yeah.

00:25:42.040 All right.

00:25:42.840 Bryce Beattie has a question here.

00:25:44.880 He has an annual review coming up.

00:25:47.000 What advice do you have for keeping an open mindset to criticism?

00:25:51.580 What filters do you use for determining if the criticism is well-founded or baseless?

00:25:59.220 Well, first, stop calling it criticism because if that's how you look at it,

00:26:05.480 you're already going to be like you're sideways.

00:26:07.680 You're already going to be in your defensive posture.

00:26:11.000 So it's not criticism.

00:26:13.680 I actually look at it as an investment in you because, Kip,

00:26:18.260 let me give you a real-world example here.

00:26:21.700 Let's say you're my employee and I need to have a performance review with you.

00:26:28.980 And let's say there's a counterpart that you have and we'll call him Joe.

00:26:33.680 And Joe does the same thing and there's two of you.

00:26:37.680 And I really don't like Joe.

00:26:40.140 And Joe is not doing a great job for the company.

00:26:43.680 Am I going to sit down and waste my time doing a performance review with Joe?

00:26:48.320 No, I'm just going to fire him.

00:26:51.960 But if I still have some, even if it's just a sliver of hope in you as my employee,

00:26:58.600 then what I'm doing, if I sit down for a performance review,

00:27:02.160 is I'm telling you, hey, I still believe,

00:27:05.120 in spite of maybe some of the critique I'm going to give to you,

00:27:08.600 that there's some hope here.

00:27:10.000 So that's a good thing.

00:27:13.020 People don't invest in others that they're indifferent to.

00:27:16.740 We just don't.

00:27:18.580 So that's a good thing.

00:27:19.720 So I wouldn't go in there and start thinking about it as criticism.

00:27:23.320 I would reframe that and say, hey, you know what?

00:27:25.560 My boss still cares about me.

00:27:26.940 My boss still is interested in my improvement.

00:27:29.940 My boss still believes that I can fulfill a duty and responsibility.

00:27:34.460 So that's what I would say.

00:27:37.260 The thing that you said about whether or not it's warranted

00:27:41.820 doesn't really actually matter.

00:27:43.720 Because if it's your boss and he believes something,

00:27:48.060 then his perception is reality.

00:27:51.000 So if there's, so, okay, so if I'm in a performance review with you, Kip,

00:27:54.880 and you say to me, hey, Ryan, I think when you're at work,

00:27:59.320 you know, you do a great job,

00:28:00.640 but you're not as diligent as I think you could be.

00:28:03.080 And I think you could really speed up your production or be more productive.

00:28:08.200 But I don't find that valuable.

00:28:10.520 It doesn't matter.

00:28:11.840 However, you said that you think I can.

00:28:16.440 So if there's something that you don't understand,

00:28:20.000 I'm going to give a little disclaimer.

00:28:21.800 You got to be careful on this because questioning can quickly become grilling

00:28:25.440 and you don't want it to be that.

00:28:27.720 But if I don't understand something, I could say, well, Kip, you know,

00:28:30.940 I appreciate you bringing that out first and foremost.

00:28:33.160 I really thought I was being diligent at work.

00:28:36.080 Do you have an example or a thought about how maybe I could improve in that department?

00:28:43.320 Yeah.

00:28:44.400 And then it's causing you to give me something more tangible that I can latch on to.

00:28:49.500 But the other thing that it's doing is it's showing you, Kip, as my boss,

00:28:53.180 that I'm taking your feedback and trying to improve already.

00:28:56.280 In the actual conversation, I'm already trying to improve.

00:29:00.880 But what I wouldn't do is, hey, Kip, like, I know you think that, but I'm actually busy.

00:29:05.680 Think about all the things that I've got done and look how great and wonderful I am.

00:29:09.880 That's not going to work.

00:29:12.220 So just take it and say, just act as if it's true.

00:29:14.900 If you thought it was true, what would you say?

00:29:20.700 Do that because that's going to help you not be defensive.

00:29:24.300 Yeah.

00:29:24.700 See, another way I like to look at this, Ryan, is don't look at anything as truth.

00:29:31.040 You got feedback.

00:29:31.960 And you're dealing with what?

00:29:36.360 People's interpretations, their perceptions, their limited exposure of the work that you're

00:29:41.360 doing based upon input from other people.

00:29:45.180 All of that is data points.

00:29:47.960 You still have to manage it, though, right?

00:29:50.340 So, like, if, Ryan, you gave me criticism and you said, hey, Kip, you know, I just don't

00:29:55.880 think you're as committed and your work is hard.

00:29:58.460 Now, that maybe it stings if I think I work hard and if I take what Ryan said as fact.

00:30:04.940 No, it's not fact.

00:30:06.760 It's his perception.

00:30:08.360 Got it.

00:30:08.780 My boss perceives and doesn't believe that I work as hard as I do.

00:30:13.560 Why is that?

00:30:14.900 Oh, instead of demonizing, I can go, well, maybe he's not aware of all the things that

00:30:19.400 I'm doing all the time.

00:30:20.620 Maybe I need to keep him updated in regards to what I'm working on.

00:30:24.260 You still have to deal with his perception.

00:30:27.540 Right.

00:30:28.140 Right?

00:30:28.540 And it is, of course, it's perception.

00:30:30.720 But I like to beat it up and say it's not truth.

00:30:32.980 That way it doesn't sting, right?

00:30:34.340 Because now you're going, well, is that true?

00:30:35.960 Is that not true?

00:30:37.280 No.

00:30:38.400 That's his reality.

00:30:40.040 Now deal with it.

00:30:41.500 And how do I manage it?

00:30:43.640 Right?

00:30:43.920 I had got feedback years ago.

00:30:45.980 It was really quite interesting.

00:30:47.980 Maybe as I think about sharing this, I'm wondering if you'll be like, no, I think they were

00:30:53.940 right, Kip, but I got feedback once from leaders.

00:30:57.100 I stepped into a new role.

00:30:59.240 I got some feedback.

00:31:00.540 It was via anonymous. 0.98

00:31:02.680 And it was, Kip is overly arrogant and close-minded. 0.98

00:31:07.280 Hmm. 0.98

00:31:07.760 And I was dumbfounded.

00:31:10.620 I was like, what?

00:31:12.240 Me?

00:31:13.540 This seems so odd to me.

00:31:15.720 Like so much that it made me upset.

00:31:17.960 And then I thought about it.

00:31:19.080 I'm like, no, no, wait, hold on.

00:31:20.680 That's their reality.

00:31:22.200 So how am I showing up that sets that tone?

00:31:26.200 How am I communicating?

00:31:28.140 How's my relationship?

00:31:29.440 Back to that question earlier.

00:31:31.040 Am I in a position of influence with them?

00:31:33.060 And that's what I realized.

00:31:34.440 They don't know me.

00:31:36.340 They know me as a figurehead of the company that talks every so often at all hands meetings.

00:31:41.180 They don't know who I am.

00:31:43.740 And so I'm like, got it.

00:31:45.080 I need an established relationship.

00:31:46.680 So I did nothing different.

00:31:48.440 All I focused on was bettering my relationship with them.

00:31:53.160 What do you know?

00:31:54.200 None of them think I'm closed-minded anymore.

00:31:57.820 I just wasn't in a position of influence yet.

00:32:00.260 I was just this position of this person in a position of authority.

00:32:05.160 That's all I was.

00:32:06.620 And so they saw my passion as like arrogance and closed-mindedness when in reality it's

00:32:11.340 like, oh, Kip's just kind of fired up.

00:32:13.600 You know what I mean?

00:32:14.080 And so very interesting.

00:32:16.360 But I like the idea.

00:32:17.760 There's no truth here.

00:32:19.360 But these are data points for you to figure out and how you're going to manage.

00:32:23.440 Don't throw it away though.

00:32:24.740 Don't go, well, that's his perception.

00:32:27.560 So I'm not going to worry about it.

00:32:28.600 I'm not saying that.

00:32:29.360 You still have to worry about it.

00:32:30.460 It's your boss.

00:32:31.280 And they have valid data points of where that perception is coming from.

00:32:34.840 So manage the perception at least.

00:32:38.220 Well, for what it's worth, Kip, I don't think that about you.

00:32:40.900 I think way worse than that. 0.99

00:32:43.420 You're highly arrogant and very close-minded. 0.95

00:32:48.760 This is what you're talking about sounds a little bit like office politics. 0.89

00:32:53.020 And every time we bring up office politics, people are like, I don't want to play the game.

00:32:58.400 Guys, it's built into the cake.

00:33:01.680 Like, you have to play the game.

00:33:03.620 And you know what?

00:33:04.420 It's like Jumanji.

00:33:06.480 You remember the movie Jumanji.

00:33:08.480 That was one of my favorite movies when I was a kid.

00:33:10.880 You're talking about the old school one.

00:33:12.780 The old school Jumanji.

00:33:14.060 The real Jumanji with Robin Williams.

00:33:16.880 And so you didn't get to opt out of the game just because you didn't like playing.

00:33:21.580 You are in the game.

00:33:25.700 And you can acknowledge it or not acknowledge it.

00:33:28.480 You can hide from it or embrace it.

00:33:30.960 You can pretend it exists or doesn't exist.

00:33:33.420 It doesn't matter.

00:33:34.460 You're in the game.

00:33:36.020 Jumanji's still coming for you, whether you like it or not.

00:33:38.560 That's exactly right.

00:33:39.660 So you better play the game.

00:33:42.420 And the more you get to know the game, like, for example, getting to know your people.

00:33:47.360 Getting to know what your boss is interested in.

00:33:49.080 Here's an interesting one.

00:33:49.940 Some employers, bosses, team leaders, employers, whatever, really care more, for example, about

00:33:57.300 a person getting to work on time than they do productivity.

00:34:01.400 They will value a person who comes in at 8 o'clock or earlier, if that's the check-in 0.98

00:34:06.140 time, every day than somebody who comes in at 8.20, 8.25, rolls in, but kicks ass throughout 0.98

00:34:13.140 the entire day. 0.55

00:34:14.460 That person who comes in late might be more productive, but sometimes the boss is like,

00:34:18.840 I care more about you being here on time.

00:34:22.080 Okay.

00:34:24.340 That's the game.

00:34:26.040 Those are the rules.

00:34:27.300 If you don't like it, go play somewhere else.

00:34:30.060 If you don't want to play somewhere else, learn to play the game here.

00:34:33.540 And the best thing about having these reviews is you get to know what the guy is interested

00:34:39.060 in.

00:34:39.340 You get to know what that person values.

00:34:42.620 And they're going to tell you what they value based on what they see in you that they like

00:34:47.540 and things where they feel like you can improve.

00:34:50.260 All that means, to your point, Kip, is what their values are. 0.74

00:34:54.080 And if you can learn that, you've unlocked the key to the game.

00:34:57.900 Totally.

00:34:58.460 And anybody listening that's in a position to dictate performance management and you're

00:35:04.240 doing yearly reviews, stop it already. 1.00

00:35:07.360 So stupid. 1.00

00:35:08.660 I mean, the reality of it is they are not effective. 1.00

00:35:11.260 Do your research.

00:35:12.320 People get sideways.

00:35:13.660 And plus, me waiting a year to get some feedback from Ryan, bad idea.

00:35:20.800 How long have you been holding on to that, Ryan?

00:35:23.000 You've been pissed off about how I did something wrong six months ago.

00:35:27.420 And then you have confirmation bias and looking for evidence of this.

00:35:30.960 And then you're digging up dirt on me leading up to our annual review.

00:35:34.100 Oh, my gosh, guys, this is such an outdated approach to performance management.

00:35:39.640 Stop it. 1.00

00:35:40.400 It's stupid. 1.00

00:35:41.880 And people get sideways just like Bryce is getting sideways. 1.00

00:35:45.480 That's interesting.

00:35:46.840 I'm stepping into the nest here of snakes.

00:35:50.620 Lion's den, yeah.

00:35:51.320 Yeah, the lion's den. 1.00

00:35:52.320 I'm going to be torn up because that's what I'm supposed to do as a boss is beat the shit 0.99

00:35:56.740 out of my people every year. 0.98

00:35:58.800 It's like such a bad idea.

00:36:01.500 Interesting.

00:36:02.140 Don't do it.

00:36:02.540 I never considered that, but that's a good point.

00:36:04.300 All right, what's next?

00:36:05.220 All right.

00:36:05.680 Bob Ross.

00:36:07.020 How does one set boundaries but still keep their mind open to hear other person's perspectives?

00:36:12.200 I kind of like this.

00:36:12.940 There's some correlation between this and Bryce's question, I think.

00:36:16.360 Even in disagreement, he says, this could be in many situations, wife, work, friends,

00:36:21.140 et cetera.

00:36:21.440 In some situations, I feel as if my opinion will not change, but want to be open-minded

00:36:26.400 enough to listen with a curious mind.

00:36:29.040 Any idea how to balance this?

00:36:30.880 Thanks for your thoughts and opinions.

00:36:33.280 There's a quote, and how does it go?

00:36:37.760 It's the, here it is.

00:36:39.060 It's, where is it?

00:36:43.760 Okay, here it is.

00:36:44.760 It's attributed to Aristotle.

00:36:46.460 It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it.

00:36:50.080 It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it.

00:36:55.560 And that's what we're talking about here.

00:36:57.520 I don't think having a hardline stance on an issue is a boundary, by the way.

00:37:02.540 I just want to clarify that.

00:37:04.100 A boundary to me is kept the way that you will treat me or not treat me.

00:37:08.220 So if we're in debate and it gets heated, you will not resort to personal insults and attacks.

00:37:15.580 And if you do, then I'm not going to participate in the discussion.

00:37:18.180 That's a boundary.

00:37:21.200 So just a disagreement or me even saying, hey, I believe this is not a boundary.

00:37:26.800 Now, if I said, I believe this and anybody who doesn't believe it can F off and not be

00:37:31.420 in my friend group, okay, now you've turned it into a boundary.

00:37:35.120 So those are two different things.

00:37:36.560 And I just want to make sure we clarify that.

00:37:38.720 So I don't think you need to set up boundaries when it comes to differing opinions.

00:37:43.900 I think we can all have differing opinions.

00:37:46.340 And if that's the case, then it's fine.

00:37:49.460 And I don't know that you always need a bad, sometimes you will, but not always.

00:37:53.900 I just wanted to clarify that.

00:37:55.480 But I think the best thing that you can do is to state your case.

00:37:59.160 And then, as you said, be open-minded.

00:38:03.080 That's it.

00:38:03.420 It's really in the question.

00:38:05.800 So, Kip, if I say something to you about how I think this podcast should be run, then I could

00:38:13.520 believe that and still say, but what do you think, Kip?

00:38:16.700 Because I actually value what you have to say.

00:38:18.540 And you might say, well, Ryan, I think actually you should do it this way.

00:38:22.380 And the appropriate mature response is one of honesty.

00:38:27.100 And in this case, it might be, hmm, you know what, Kip?

00:38:29.600 I never thought about that.

00:38:31.320 Let me think about that for a couple of days.

00:38:34.640 Or let me sit on that for a minute.

00:38:36.800 Or, oh, I never thought about that, but what about this?

00:38:40.440 And maybe I counter that because there's an issue that you haven't thought about.

00:38:44.540 And what's interesting is when you start doing it like that, more people will be open to

00:38:48.540 doing the same thing.

00:38:50.600 Right?

00:38:51.000 So, if I say something, then you counter it, then I counter it respectfully, and then it

00:38:56.320 just becomes an open dialogue.

00:38:57.700 But when you start shutting down and shutting people off, interrupting them, telling them

00:39:02.620 they're wrong, telling them why your way is the best, then they're going to start digging

00:39:06.920 that in their heels too.

00:39:09.120 But, Kip, you can say whatever you want to me.

00:39:12.820 At the end of the day, I still have to make a decision as to whether or not I adopt it because

00:39:16.800 this is my life.

00:39:17.740 And in this case, our scenario here, it's my podcast.

00:39:21.780 So, I can take your feedback and then sit out and say, oh, he was right about that.

00:39:25.420 I'm actually going to implement that.

00:39:26.480 And then I'm going to give you credit for it and talk with you about it.

00:39:28.900 Or, if I don't implement it, depending on our relationship, I might say, hey, Kip, you

00:39:33.800 know, I really thought about what you said.

00:39:34.880 And I thought it was a good idea.

00:39:35.820 But for what I'm trying to accomplish, I think this is better.

00:39:38.200 So, this is the direction I'm going to go.

00:39:39.340 So, that's it.

00:39:42.660 I mean, I think we always-

00:39:43.760 I don't think we need to complicate it.

00:39:45.320 Yeah.

00:39:45.680 I love it.

00:39:46.480 I mean, first off, Bob, I mean, the fact that the way you ask the question is perfect, right?

00:39:52.300 I want to be curious, right?

00:39:54.560 I want to maintain an open mind.

00:39:56.260 But I also don't want to lose myself and my own perspectives that I might strongly agree

00:40:02.080 with, right?

00:40:02.760 And that's perfect.

00:40:04.080 Like, we all should be having that mentality.

00:40:07.020 And by the way, I think we lose this when we're not self-aware enough, when the communication

00:40:13.840 isn't about being curious, when the communication's around me trying to convince Ryan to agree with

00:40:20.000 me, and why do I need him to agree with me?

00:40:23.640 Because it validates the decisions I've made.

00:40:26.040 Like, if we're not even in that space realizing why we're arguing, we're already lost.

00:40:32.160 And I know you're not there, Bob, because it's obvious in the way you ask this question.

00:40:37.020 But some people, they'll get in debates and arguments about opinions and ideas because

00:40:42.960 they're not, they're looking for validation.

00:40:46.600 They're not even there to understand someone's perspective.

00:40:50.220 They're there to try to change someone else for their own benefit.

00:40:52.800 They're not even aware of the human condition of why they're even doing it.

00:40:56.980 So maybe a challenge for the non-Bob's listening is like, if you're getting fired up,

00:41:02.100 if you're angry in a debate where you're sharing ideas, why?

00:41:05.500 Why does that trigger you?

00:41:08.720 Why does it make you upset?

00:41:11.020 What does it say about you if someone disagrees with you?

00:41:14.460 Does it mean that they don't care about you?

00:41:16.360 Does it rock your identity?

00:41:18.940 Why is your identity tied to that idea so harshly?

00:41:23.120 Man, internalize a little bit.

00:41:25.300 Understand why you're getting emotionally charged.

00:41:27.600 And mark my word, it's centered in some form of self-validation that has nothing to do with

00:41:32.740 really the argument and you need to be aware of that so you can understand what you're

00:41:38.200 bringing to a conversation and why you're getting fired up sometimes when people see

00:41:42.580 things differently.

00:41:43.360 We shouldn't be upset if someone sees something different.

00:41:46.960 It doesn't even logically make sense.

00:41:49.000 We do it because of some other undermining issue.

00:41:52.940 And not really issue, just undermining reason.

00:41:55.020 I mean, I think that's a great point.

00:41:58.200 You see this a lot when you start talking about religion is when politics is obviously

00:42:02.640 very polarizing as well.

00:42:04.200 You know, if I have a specific religious belief, Christianity, for example, and I have a friend

00:42:11.040 who maybe is Jewish, he can think what he wants to think and I can think what I want to think.

00:42:18.880 And his belief doesn't impact or undermine mine.

00:42:22.760 I think he's wrong.

00:42:23.820 He thinks I'm wrong.

00:42:25.340 The end.

00:42:26.460 Like, there's not much more to it.

00:42:28.680 And maybe he wants to make his case as to why the Old Testament is the only source of God's word.

00:42:33.540 And maybe I want to talk about the New Testament.

00:42:35.620 And we can talk about it.

00:42:36.800 And then we can both see each other's points of view or not or revert to what we already believed.

00:42:42.820 It just doesn't matter.

00:42:44.400 You talked about validation.

00:42:45.740 And it's funny that you said that because as you were saying that, I wrote down a word here

00:42:49.720 that ties into what you were saying.

00:42:50.900 It's insecurity, right?

00:42:53.000 If I need you to believe what I believe in order for me to be validated, then I'm insecure about my belief.

00:43:00.360 And what that means is that I don't believe strongly enough about whatever my particular position is.

00:43:05.660 Maybe I'm not well-researched enough.

00:43:07.360 Maybe I'm questioning in myself and I'm trying to convince myself and others because the alternative is scary.

00:43:14.580 You see this a lot in people who leave particular churches or denominations where they want to be validated because it's scary.

00:43:22.520 It's scary to leave something that you've known your entire life or been taught, especially in the context of religion,

00:43:28.840 that if you leave, you're going to go to hell. 0.74

00:43:31.580 Or if you leave, your family is going to ostracize you.

00:43:36.380 There are some very real consequences to making some of these decisions.

00:43:41.920 And so you do need that validation or you seek for that validation because you're not sure enough yourself.

00:43:48.060 That's an insecurity is what that is.

00:43:49.940 Yeah.

00:43:50.520 Yeah.

00:43:51.000 And it's fascinating.

00:43:52.280 And you'll see evidence of this in all areas of life where you're like, oh, got it.

00:43:59.000 They're emotionally charged here.

00:44:00.840 I mean, I've had a conversation with people around politics where someone like started crying and you're like, why?

00:44:08.920 Why is that?

00:44:10.180 Like, is yourself, if you're, and I said this internally to myself, I wouldn't say this out loud because they would perceive it wrong.

00:44:16.620 But it was like, so by me disagreeing with your political viewpoint, do you feel like you're less than?

00:44:24.160 Like, have you given that power over to your presidential candidate or your political party?

00:44:33.400 Oh, man.

00:44:35.000 Like, your worth in life is actually tied to a political group?

00:44:42.240 And here I am shaking it up.

00:44:44.220 You're like, man, we should probably be aware of that.

00:44:46.960 That's probably not ideal, right?

00:44:49.000 You know, but it's craziness.

00:44:51.660 Yeah, it's nuts how we do that.

00:44:53.880 Just take that as a warning, guys.

00:44:55.120 If you get into political debate with Kip, he's going to make you cry.

00:44:57.960 I'm going to make you cry.

00:44:59.340 Yeah, meanwhile, just be curious. 0.98

00:45:00.800 I'm like, you're crazy, but that's awesome.

00:45:03.860 All right, let's take one or two more.

00:45:05.880 Yeah, Russ Copeland, last question.

00:45:07.720 Working through the battle planner, will, full disclosure, I have no idea what he's talking about.

00:45:12.740 Hopefully you do.

00:45:13.640 Will you be releasing a new version where the CP are represented by each quadrant and days are filled in the weekly tracker?

00:45:23.880 Where the CP.

00:45:26.400 What he's saying by CP is checkpoint.

00:45:28.160 Where the checkpoint is, what was it?

00:45:31.140 Represented by each quadrant and days are filled in the weekly tracker.

00:45:35.720 Well, it is represented by each quadrant, so already.

00:45:40.120 So if in the battle planner, if you go to it, and I'm pulling up mine right here, let me go to-

00:45:44.820 And you have a checkpoint per quadrant, right?

00:45:47.260 Yeah, I mean, on the right page, so you have, let's take calibration.

00:45:51.200 So calibration is your mental, emotional, and spiritual health.

00:45:55.300 You have your objective.

00:45:56.680 You have your primary tactic.

00:45:58.440 Then you have your three, or excuse me, your checkboxes for each day.

00:46:03.420 And then right under that, it says next checkpoint, next CP.

00:46:06.740 And so you can measure it against that.

00:46:08.580 So I'm not really sure.

00:46:10.240 And then also progress is below that.

00:46:12.240 So let's say, for example, I want to lose 30 pounds.

00:46:17.120 I'm just using 30 for easy math.

00:46:18.460 So I want to lose 30 pounds in 90 days.

00:46:21.300 Well, my first checkpoint, my 30-day checkpoint, is going to be that I'm down 10 pounds.

00:46:26.300 Yeah.

00:46:27.020 And then, so that's what I'd write.

00:46:29.420 You know, by, in 30 days, I need to be 200, or excuse me, 180 pounds.

00:46:36.260 Okay, that's what I need to write down there.

00:46:38.900 And then the progress is, hey, my next checkpoint, maybe we're two weeks into it already.

00:46:45.340 So, so I should be down 10 pounds by the end of the month.

00:46:49.900 But right now I'm down seven.

00:46:51.520 So that's your progress.

00:46:52.360 I'm down seven pounds.

00:46:53.200 So that, that just means in the next two weeks, I need to lose three more pounds.

00:46:56.540 So I'm not really quite sure what he's asking, because I think it's kind of already built

00:47:01.900 into what, I must just be misunderstanding it.

00:47:04.560 Yeah.

00:47:04.840 And Russ, maybe reach out and we can, we can provide some more clarity.

00:47:07.900 I think for those people listening though, maybe a value add is, you know, in the IC

00:47:12.540 and what we do on the battle plans, you gotta, you gotta track progress, right?

00:47:18.280 It's really funny.

00:47:19.140 I always use this analogy, Ryan, if, you know, at the order of man events, sometimes we'll

00:47:24.460 shoot bows, right?

00:47:26.320 And if you and I went out into a field and we had no target and we're like, hey, let's

00:47:32.540 just get better at shooting bows.

00:47:33.980 But we removed the target.

00:47:36.600 Yeah.

00:47:37.340 It'd be weird, right?

00:47:38.440 After like two shots, we'd be like, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm bored and I'm done.

00:47:43.120 Are you done?

00:47:43.760 Yeah, I'm done.

00:47:44.300 And then we would just walk off, right?

00:47:45.920 But we put a target up all of a sudden, it's like, we could shoot arrows for hours and it's

00:47:51.300 fun.

00:47:52.260 There's value in knowing that you're tracking and progressing, right?

00:47:56.180 And, and that's kind of a fundamental principle within the Iron Council and the battle plan is

00:48:00.700 that we're tracking and we know that we're progressing.

00:48:03.720 And these checkpoints are kind of like major milestones in that direction of the ultimate

00:48:08.760 90 day, 90 day objective.

00:48:12.000 Well, what's interesting about it is we crave it so much that if we don't have that target

00:48:16.560 in there, we'll start doing things to make it up.

00:48:18.540 So for example, I imagine if you and I took our bows out and there's no target, we'd say,

00:48:22.960 let's see who can shoot it the furthest.

00:48:25.160 I bet I can shoot my arrow further than you.

00:48:27.640 You start making up targets.

00:48:29.360 Yeah.

00:48:29.780 Hey, you see that rock?

00:48:30.920 Let's see who can get it closest to that rock right there or that tree.

00:48:34.440 Who can hit that?

00:48:35.060 I bet I can hit that tree before you can.

00:48:37.240 So we crave this as, as men, we crave having something to aim at.

00:48:42.000 So instead of just like shooting for what happens to be out there, maybe be a little bit more

00:48:46.920 deliberate and intentional.

00:48:48.180 That's why the battle plan works so well.

00:48:50.060 So I don't know that we answered his question just because I don't understand it.

00:48:53.400 So like you said, Kip, he can reach out and you guys can check out the battle planner at

00:48:57.980 orderofman.com slash battle planner to see exactly what we're talking about.

00:49:02.060 And maybe you have some thoughts or recommendations as well.

00:49:05.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:49:06.100 And then we talked about order of man events earlier.

00:49:09.000 The key to stay aware of those is to go to the website, sign up for the newsletter, orderofman.com,

00:49:15.340 as well as staying connected with Ryan on X and Instagram at Ryan Mickler.

00:49:19.600 Or that's how you stay in the know.

00:49:21.240 So when new events come along or release of new t-shirts and other things, you know,

00:49:26.500 that's, that's how you stay in the know.

00:49:28.880 Yeah, we call it the dispatch.

00:49:30.280 We come out with it every Tuesday and there's discount codes, updates about events.

00:49:35.560 We'll give you a synopsis of the podcast we've done for the week.

00:49:38.440 So you'll get an overview on that.

00:49:39.800 And then we usually put in there a thought, you know, something to think about with,

00:49:44.460 as it pertains to being a man.

00:49:45.800 So it's pretty valuable.

00:49:46.880 Yeah, so if you just go to orderofman.com, you can check it out.

00:49:50.400 Cool.

00:49:51.580 Cool.

00:49:52.160 All right, guys.

00:49:52.760 Well, good questions today.

00:49:54.040 As always, hopefully we gave you some, some things to consider.

00:49:57.520 I, you know, the question that I really thought stood out to me, Kip,

00:50:00.860 I'd be curious what you thought was best.

00:50:04.400 I really liked the question about, I can't remember his name, John, maybe,

00:50:08.420 who has the 13 and five-year-old niece and nephew.

00:50:12.580 Yeah.

00:50:13.020 I think that was, for me, that was the question of the day.

00:50:15.340 That was the one that stood out because, to me, that's a man who, Grant, okay.

00:50:20.120 Yeah.

00:50:20.400 So Grant, based on his question, is a man who's interested in being the man that he needs to be.

00:50:27.320 And in the absence of other men who should be in that role and should be stepping up,

00:50:31.600 who are not, he's decided that he's going to take it upon himself to do that.

00:50:35.440 And I think that underscores what we talk about here in Order of Man.

00:50:40.640 And I just wanted to acknowledge Grant for the great question and the good work that he's going to do with those kids.

00:50:46.880 I agree.

00:50:47.800 I totally agree.

00:50:48.660 That resonated and awesome, right, that he's tackling that.

00:50:53.160 All right, guys.

00:50:54.040 Let's be more like Grant this week, I guess.

00:50:56.380 I like it.

00:50:56.760 We'll be back, let's see, on Friday.

00:50:59.280 Until then, go out there, take action, and become the man you are meant to be.

00:51:02.580 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

00:51:09.420 If you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you are meant to be,

00:51:13.440 we invite you to join the Order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - July 30, 2025

Mastering Feedback, Boundaries, and Family Mentoring ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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