Order of Man - MATT BEAUDREAU ｜ The Broken Public School System

00:00:00.000 The public school system is broken. Most of us know that. And even if we do, it's hard to see

00:00:05.220 a viable alternative to what so many have adopted as the way to educate our children.

00:00:10.800 But the public school system is not conducive to the way children learn

00:00:14.520 and what they'll be exposed to once they graduate. But even with this knowledge,

00:00:19.220 only a few people are doing something about it. And my guest today, Matt Boudreau,

00:00:23.420 is one of them. Today, we'll uncover what he's doing to solve the problem of the educational

00:00:27.600 system. We talk about how and why the education system is simply a behavioral management program

00:00:33.240 for a large group of people, why we've decided to outsource our education, how public school has

00:00:39.900 become the largest religion in the country, why we decided to lower the standards for our children 1.00

00:00:44.720 and how to fix that, and how to develop and find specific aptitudes for our children.

00:00:51.400 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your

00:00:56.440 own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily

00:01:02.440 deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is

00:01:09.740 who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself

00:01:15.140 a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler. I'm the host and the founder of the

00:01:20.020 Order of Man podcasting movement. Welcome here today. I've got a very important one, especially if you're a

00:01:25.540 father or you plan to be a father and you have kids that are going to eventually at some point

00:01:30.120 in some capacity be exposed to the public school system. Many of us listening know that it's a broken

00:01:35.740 system, that it isn't helpful for our children, and yet we struggle to find ways to educate our

00:01:41.600 children in a way, in an environment that will serve them. So we're going to talk a lot about that

00:01:46.760 today with a very good guest. If you are new to the podcast, this is designed to give you

00:01:51.820 information and tools and guidance and resources and direction that you need to raise your kids,

00:01:56.980 to lead yourself as a man, to lead your family, friends, colleagues, coworkers, and to just be a

00:02:01.940 man in general. So we do this podcast. We've got our exclusive brotherhood, the Iron Council. We do

00:02:06.640 events. We've got two new events coming online later this week. So I'll get you the details and the

00:02:11.320 dates on those soon. But suffice it to say now, please, if you would subscribe, leave a rating and

00:02:16.180 review, let people know what you're listening to, and also support my friends at Montana Knife

00:02:22.080 Company. These guys are doing 100% made and sourced in America knives. They're good friends

00:02:27.960 of mine. I own probably two dozen of their knives at this point. I have so many of their knives, but

00:02:33.160 I'm excited about them. I use them in the field when I hunt. I've got a couple of hunts coming this

00:02:37.120 spring. And of course, I'm going to be packing my Montana knife hunting knife. So check it out

00:02:42.720 over at Montana knife company.com and use the code order of man, order of man at checkout.

00:02:48.160 They're a good sponsor of ours. They're a good friend of ours, and they help support our mission

00:02:52.840 of reclaiming and restoring masculinity. Guys, let me introduce you to my guest. Again, his name is

00:02:57.420 Matt Boudreau. He's a former public school teacher. He's an administrator. He also former professor at

00:03:02.940 Stanford university, and he's a well-known world-renowned keynote speaker with clients that range from

00:03:09.640 Lockheed Martin, the Air Force, Caterpillar, Honeywell, just to name a few. But he's made it

00:03:16.080 his life's mission to find very powerful and alternative education opportunities for our

00:03:21.200 young men and women, including a partnership with Tim Kennedy. Many of you know, another former

00:03:26.140 podcast guest in a young men's mentoring programs. He's the founder of Apogee strong, which is both an

00:03:32.520 online and physical education program. They've got 50 new campuses opening up this year.

00:03:38.140 Um, I believe that this program, his systems, his tools of education will quite literally change

00:03:45.360 the way that we educate our children. Enjoy this one.

00:03:50.000 Matt, what's up, man? So great to see you. And of course, honor to have you back on the podcast.

00:03:54.420 Honor is mine, man. It's been, uh, been a while, dude. Oh, we were just talking the other day.

00:03:59.260 It's been like, it was two years ago. And then we did a podcast together.

00:04:02.800 No, it was two years ago in Mexico. And then, and then it was April thereafter. But I think that

00:04:08.820 was the last time I actually physically got to see him and it's gone really fast.

00:04:12.840 Yeah. It's amazing how quick time goes and everything changes and life happens. And it's

00:04:18.020 pretty, it's pretty wild. I know we've stayed in touch, but man, to be able to have you back on

00:04:21.120 the podcast, cause I see the things that you're doing, you know, especially with our young men.

00:04:25.640 And I just can't help, but think every time we talk, it's like, this is needed more than it was six

00:04:30.680 months ago. This is needed more than it was two years ago. This is needed more than it was five

00:04:34.340 years ago. And the pace at which our, I think degeneracy is, is escalating is quite scary.

00:04:41.380 Actually. It is, man. No, we feel that exact same thing. Um, we see it culturally and then we get the

00:04:48.960 glimmer of, we get the glimmer of, of hope. I always say hope is a horrible strategy and that's never our

00:04:54.380 strategy, but we see it, man. When we talk with these young guys and we see what they're doing,

00:04:57.940 um, we see the need for it more and more, man. So no honors mind. Yeah. Yeah. What, what do you

00:05:03.980 think? I mean, the crazy thing I hear, at least anecdotally, and I know you probably have more

00:05:08.040 evidence of course, to back this up, but one thing I often hear is that it's super difficult to find

00:05:13.800 qualified people to work. That's the one that to me stands out more than anything. And I, and I see it

00:05:18.940 again, anecdotally, you go into a store, you go into a restaurant and the people are slower paced.

00:05:24.420 The customer service has declined. The ability for communication has, has decreased. It's really

00:05:31.800 sad when you look at young people and it's not, it's not their fault. You know, I think at an age,

00:05:37.160 you know, as, as they get older, you know, obviously there's a greater level of responsibility,

00:05:41.480 but as a young person, it's not really their fault that they're not getting what they need to thrive in

00:05:46.080 this world. And we see it. And then we also see it in things like, uh, our dwindling military,

00:05:51.440 like no, up to 75% of children who could otherwise join the military cannot without a physical waiver

00:05:59.240 because they can't complete the physical requirements, which is crazy because everybody

00:06:04.180 I knew when I was 18, every single person I knew passed that at a moment's notice without any sort

00:06:11.500 of training at all. It's kind of sad. Yeah. Piece of cake. And I think it's a multifaceted thing,

00:06:15.680 but you're exactly right. We've lowered standards. We've lowered our standards as a society. So yeah,

00:06:20.640 you're right. At a certain point, it's, it's upon the young person to, you know, take it on their

00:06:24.800 shoulders and, and to maintain that standard for themselves. But what's happened is, man,

00:06:29.280 we've lowered the standards as a culture. Parents have lowered the standards. Adults have lowered

00:06:33.540 the standards. We like to say, you know, it's all it's kids these days. I promise you, if you raise

00:06:38.620 the standard and you keep that consistent around them, they will rise to the occasion. We're seeing it

00:06:44.380 over and over. And it's just those meta skills. It's what you're talking about. It's the factory

00:06:47.840 settings of, of physical health. It's the factory settings of taking on personal responsibility,

00:06:52.940 you know, early it's the factory settings of learning how to communicate. It's the factory

00:06:57.380 settings of the small thing. We're not, we're not seeing this because the world is advanced so much

00:07:04.840 that we're not keeping up. It's the basics that, that we're losing, man. And I'm seeing it, you know,

00:07:11.740 I've seen it for years, even traveling and speaking and consulting and, you know, working with these

00:07:16.660 organizations, they're going, look, man, all these kids are coming up. They've got the grades,

00:07:21.460 they've got all the, you know, they're, they're up to date, they're coding and they're lit all the

00:07:25.920 things that school lays out. They've got all that, but they don't want to handle the responsibility.

00:07:31.400 They can't communicate. They can't look somebody in the eye. They can't show up on time.

00:07:35.560 Mom's calling during the interview to go, you know, it's those kinds of things, man. That's us

00:07:39.800 lowering standards. What do you say to somebody though, who might suggest that, and you said they'll,

00:07:44.860 they'll step up to the standard, but I think there's a lot of people who believe that they

00:07:49.440 won't. And then another concern that I have is sure I can raise the standard for my own children,

00:07:55.040 but I can't raise the standard for the people around me. And I, there's a lot of kids who I

00:08:00.660 know are struggling because they have poor examples in their house or, or, you know, they don't even have

00:08:06.020 a home at all, or they're in such a poverty type position that they can't get what they need,

00:08:11.560 let alone thinking about the future. That's a reality that we have to deal with somehow.

00:08:16.860 It is a reality. And so you got two different things that we're talking about there. So one,

00:08:20.460 people believe in that the young people won't step up to the standard. They won't. If the people,

00:08:26.180 if the leaders around them, if the adults around them aren't, that's the bigger, that's the bigger

00:08:31.040 thing. People that think the young people won't, it's usually because they're not holding

00:08:34.340 themselves to that standard first. That's what I see over and over again, right? The parents that

00:08:39.680 are most like, ah, they're not going to do this is because the parents are inconsistent. The parents

00:08:44.840 don't hold the standard. The parents are living, you know, in, in mediocrity and, and people that

00:08:51.040 strive for greatness and people that strive for mediocrity don't usually get along. And so you got

00:08:54.520 all these parents that are living in mediocrity and wondering why others kids aren't stepping up,

00:08:58.340 right? It's, it's the parent that won't. That second part though, what you said is, is absolutely

00:09:05.960 true. And this is, this is the toughest thing I think for any parent, for any educator that really

00:09:11.800 cares about young people is that you see, you can't impact and, and, and have that positive effect on

00:09:17.320 everybody. You can't, there really is a divide. I really believe there's a divide that's taking place.

00:09:23.220 I wish that wasn't the case. And we're trying to make, you know, programs like ours or schools like

00:09:28.120 ours or, or what we're trying to make these things as accessible as humanly possible, but we still

00:09:33.460 need really good people that are going into public schools and being that, cause we just have such a

00:09:37.280 lack of leadership overall. We do have a number of young heroes who are not going to be presented

00:09:41.800 with the right kind of leadership. And it's creating a gap, man. It's a scary situation.

00:09:47.160 Yeah. I mean, I know you guys are doing your work to bridge the gap by bringing these schools.

00:09:50.540 You said there was going to be what 50 campuses, physical campuses for the Apogee program. Tell me what

00:09:56.280 the Apogee program is, what, what that entails, because I know a lot of people who see, for example,

00:10:01.880 problems with the public school system, but they haven't quite either convinced themselves or shown

00:10:07.660 themselves as a way for homeschooling or made that leap. Cause I think those are on two opposite ends

00:10:12.300 of the spectrum, but I think where you reside is somewhere in the middle. So I'd love to hear more

00:10:16.960 about that. Yeah. We're all about, I mean, people at home education is great. My kids are home educated

00:10:21.540 right now. Cause they've never gone to a campus that I didn't create. Right. So they, they went

00:10:25.500 to school before, but it was schools that I created. Um, they're home educated right now.

00:10:29.120 And there are a lot of people who are in that middle of like, look, we don't want that traditional

00:10:33.080 conveyor belt model. Um, but we also don't want to, or feel like we can't, or maybe we really can't

00:10:39.640 home educate. So what's, you know, we're, we're coming together and meeting them in the middle. So

00:10:43.560 the best way to describe what an Apogee campus looks like is it's a microcosm of life. What are the

00:10:49.920 meta skills that are needed in life? Well, you need to understand how to communicate. You need

00:10:53.520 to be able to take on, uh, you know, roles and responsibility early. You need to be able to

00:10:59.540 collaborate with other people. You need physical, uh, health you need. So it's like all the things

00:11:05.280 that you normally need as an adult, you and I would say, Hey, this is a big part of our daily life.

00:11:10.020 We try to make that a microcosm of, of the day for, for young people too. So, um, they're engaging

00:11:16.340 in Socratic conversations every day. We want our, our young people to understand how to

00:11:21.600 think. Um, we talk about critical thinking as a society. We don't talk about what that

00:11:28.220 actually means. Critical thinking is the ability to think about your thinking. So we have the

00:11:34.440 young people engaging with one another in Socratic fashion, Socratic dialogue. They learned to

00:11:39.800 articulate Matt will articulate what he believes and why he believes it. Then I'm going to listen

00:11:44.880 to Ryan. Ryan's going to have a different perspective. And I need to genuinely listen

00:11:49.400 to what Ryan says and engage in civil discourse by understanding the rules of engagement on a good

00:11:55.720 conversation so that we can come to a conclusion of like, okay, Ryan put his best evidence out there.

00:12:01.180 I put my best evidence out there. We might agree on some, we might disagree on some high five.

00:12:06.120 That's okay. We can still be friends, right? That we can still move forward. Civil discourse,

00:12:09.680 something we see able to do. So they engage in that every day. They engage in physical activity

00:12:14.020 every day. Um, physical fitness is a non-negotiable. Tim's helping put together a lot of that program.

00:12:19.960 Jason Kalipa, um, is helping put together some of that program for us, you know, uh, campus wide

00:12:25.080 so that the kids are engaging. We're talking about mental health for young people. Physical health is

00:12:29.780 a precursor for their mental health. It's a non-negotiable that they're physically active.

00:12:34.540 Um, so they got a little bit of Socratic conversation time. There's a bucket for that physical

00:12:39.580 education time. The academics still get hit, but we've got choice on what that looks like.

00:12:47.820 You want to do a traditional math program. Great. Sounds good. We can do a traditional math program.

00:12:52.700 Would you rather build out, uh, you know, do a little mini project where you're building out

00:12:56.340 a mock business and you're running through PNLs and kind of getting math covered that way. Great.

00:13:00.960 Sounds good. You've got options for individualizing the academia,

00:13:04.200 and then they're collaborating around real world projects. So they're collaborating around a five

00:13:10.540 or six, uh, week project, whether that's starting a business. Cause again, that's transferable into

00:13:15.280 the real world. Um, whether that is, uh, diving into the history of, um, how to, you know, create a

00:13:25.260 coat of arms and, and how, um, tribes form and how tribes come together. And so they, they meet around

00:13:31.000 that and then, um, build their own coat of arms and they do a pitch, you know, contest to one another

00:13:35.920 for what the mascot should be at the campus or whatever that looks like. It's a real world project

00:13:39.540 that really is transferable. Um, and then it's topped off with responsibility on campus. Everybody

00:13:44.820 has jobs on campus, um, and internships and apprenticeships off campus. Again, everything

00:13:50.880 is transferable to real life every bit. So when I, I know when I, I've, I've gone through this and seen

00:13:57.560 what you do and I have a little bit more of a sneak peek and insight, but I think what a lot of people

00:14:01.000 might be concerned with is the costs associated with something like this, right? So you go to

00:14:05.020 public school and you often hear, you get what you pay for. Uh, we are paying for it. It doesn't feel

00:14:09.860 like we are cause we're not writing a check each month, but there's obviously going to be an enhanced

00:14:14.560 costs associated with something like that. So how do you overcome those hurdles and objections?

00:14:19.200 Yeah, that's exactly. And I, and I fully get that. And I always do it from, from two different

00:14:22.900 things. I get the, we're raised culturally to believe. And when we almost plan on, we're going

00:14:28.560 to send our kids to school. So many people did, right? Like we're going to send our kids to school.

00:14:31.940 So mom and dad are both going to be able to work. We're not going to have to worry about it. It's

00:14:35.760 just what you do, right? It's the norm. It's, I call it the biggest religion in this country

00:14:39.840 because everybody has just subscribed to it for the most part. We're just going to send them off.

00:14:44.340 Um, and what I ask parents to start to think about, and again, there's a lot of presuppositions

00:14:48.600 there. It's presupposes that that's what a real education looks like. It presupposes

00:14:52.900 presupposes that those schools are the same as when we grew up, you know, and that there's

00:14:57.000 no agendas playing out and that's how human development works. And none of those things

00:15:00.940 are true. Um, but at some point, if you realize that's true, are you brave enough to figure

00:15:05.520 out a way to, to break out of there? One of the things that will inherently stop people

00:15:10.280 from even considering, am I brave enough to break out is exactly what you said. It's the

00:15:15.080 cost, the downsides of, you know, the downside of any privatized educational opportunity is the

00:15:20.280 fact that you got to pay for it. So we know that first and foremost, so we're doing everything

00:15:25.820 we can to go against it. We're actually working on building out essentially an endowment fund for

00:15:30.180 all of our schools. We're doing it in a couple of different ways. We've got two very specific

00:15:35.800 foundations. So these are 501 C threes that we have set up. One is the Apogee strong foundation,

00:15:42.040 which is a private foundation that we are using to scholarship young heroes directly. So anybody that

00:15:49.260 says, Hey, I want to sponsor a young hero, or I just want this to go to any, but like they can

00:15:53.260 donate to that 501 C three tax, right? If like people can help donate, um, and scholarship, a young

00:15:59.320 person directly. We also have the Apogee education foundation. And so that is a public facing charity.

00:16:06.640 Um, we are able to connect to state grants that don't tie us to state, you know, quote unquote

00:16:17.200 standards or any kind of, it doesn't, we don't have to answer to anybody. That's like, that is for Tim

00:16:22.980 and I both. That's important, right? Like we don't want to answer to anybody on this. We want to do

00:16:27.220 what's right by the young people. Um, so the combination of those two, we're essentially building

00:16:32.620 out an endowment fund. You know, we have financial advisors on our side that are, that are pro bono.

00:16:38.060 They're, they're in it for the mission. And we want to take those funds and make it to where this

00:16:42.740 is accessible to anybody and everybody that's coming in and wanting to be, you know, a character

00:16:48.680 driven human being. Um, and we've created a payment processing system that also allows for people to

00:16:57.700 scholarship without having to do anything. If they're business owners, they can transfer using

00:17:02.200 something like Stripe or they're using, you know, any other point of sale system. Well, they can switch

00:17:06.640 over to Apogee pays. It does nothing as far as their business goes. They don't lose any money.

00:17:11.720 They're not, but just by nature of them doing business, it now creates a scholarship fund

00:17:17.100 in their name. That little percentage that Stripe uses to now, you know, do perpetuate like a woke

00:17:25.140 agenda or whatever you want to call it. Well, that percentage now goes back to the foundation

00:17:29.620 that directly scholarships people too. So we're just trying to make it as accessible as possible,

00:17:35.440 man, because that is, that's always the downside. That's always the hardest part.

00:17:38.440 Yeah. I, I, it's, it is challenging every time, you know, my, my children are homeschooled. And so

00:17:44.860 I realized that not everybody can be in that position, but I like that when you talk about

00:17:49.300 presupposing that this is the way it's supposed to be, or that parents can't do it, or, you know,

00:17:53.420 we'll have to sacrifice. It's like, yeah, you'll have to sacrifice.

00:17:58.160 Bingo. Just like you sacrifice.

00:18:00.900 That's right. You might have to downsize. You might have, you know, I always,

00:18:03.820 I always tell parents, and again, some of it goes from not understanding what school is or where it

00:18:08.760 actually came from. And some of the things that are actually going on, not understanding that it

00:18:13.440 doesn't line up with, with human development. A lot of people don't actually don't understand

00:18:18.720 that. And that's okay. You weren't taught that, but once you can go back to, again, the history of

00:18:24.540 it and kind of take a look that it doesn't, it's not a microcosm of life. It's a microcosm of

00:18:29.260 school and that child development really wasn't taken into account. If you start to go down that

00:18:34.400 rabbit hole, then you got to start talking about where do I sacrifice? You know, I tell parents,

00:18:39.080 like if you had planned on having kids and being like, you know what, man, for a, this is cool.

00:18:44.940 Cause the first, you know, 18 years, there's going to be two meals a day that they're going to get for

00:18:50.900 free. Like it's going to be two free meals. And that's just what I'm planning on right now.

00:18:54.480 They're going to have two free meals. They come home at night. And then I'm going to provide the meal.

00:18:57.920 If at some point you learned that in every one of those free meals, they're getting,

00:19:05.680 there's just a tiny bit of poison that's in there. Just a little bit of poison, every meal,

00:19:11.100 two meals a day for these first 18 years. If you learned that you'd do anything in your power to be

00:19:17.840 like, okay, I've got to figure this out. I got to sacrifice. Cause I got to start now providing all

00:19:21.940 of these meals. It's this thing, man. It really is. We're just poisoning. You know, there's a lot

00:19:28.140 of mental poisoning going on and we got to figure out how to sacrifice and pull them out, but we want

00:19:32.340 to do our job to make it as accessible to everybody as possible. What, why do you think that the public

00:19:37.320 school system is the way, well, let me back up. Let's talk about some of the issues with public

00:19:41.700 education. And then, and then we can get into why is it that way? Because I think, and this is

00:19:50.140 anecdotal, this is probably some confirmation bias. You know, the people that I talk with, the parents

00:19:54.460 that I talk with who have kids, the people who listen to this podcast, obviously we're a sub group

00:19:59.740 based on certain values, right? So it's not a great data pool to draw from if we're trying to look at it

00:20:06.320 objectively, but everybody I talked to is like, yeah, there's, there's a definite problem with the

00:20:10.620 public school system. And so I'd like to know what you think those problems are and then why

00:20:15.340 these problems have been perpetuated the way that they have. Cause I don't believe, for example,

00:20:21.280 that school teachers are not all of them are woke. Not all of them are trying to get our kids. Not all

00:20:26.840 of them are trying to indoctrinate. I don't even believe that about all administration. I think

00:20:31.520 there's a lot of school boards. I think there's a lot of higher echelons of government positions and

00:20:35.680 officials who love it as a, as a mechanism of power, but I don't believe that the soldiers,

00:20:42.000 so to speak, are the ones creating these problems. No, the majority of people. And so anybody listening

00:20:47.860 to this too, I want them to understand it. And we've got teachers and administrators that are

00:20:51.480 listening. I want them to understand the majority of them are extraordinarily good human beings.

00:20:55.900 Right. The majority of them really are the majority of them really because they genuinely love young

00:21:03.280 people and they want to do right by those young people. Um, so I'm the biggest supporters. And in

00:21:08.280 fact, man, this system, this, you know, the conveyor belt, the public school system, it's not going

00:21:12.540 away. There's too much money, power, like it's not going away. That is a giant, massive monster of an

00:21:19.460 infrastructure of an organization in our country. It's not leaving. So I want really good people

00:21:25.420 there. There are young people who don't have fathers in the home. There are young people who

00:21:29.600 have bad, you know, mothers and fathers in the home. They have a rough situation at home and the

00:21:34.380 best adult human beings they ever see are those teachers and administrators at the school. So I

00:21:39.800 want good people there, man. Um, I, I very much do. So I'm a huge supporter of them. The system itself,

00:21:46.980 um, is just, is not what I'm, uh, is not what I'm about. And the, some of the biggest issues,

00:21:52.760 people tend to point towards agendas. Um, they point towards, you know, critical race theory

00:21:59.300 and their point towards, you know, the, the sexualization of children and the point towards,

00:22:03.000 um, you know, some of the, some of the schools where you've got all the, all the fights going

00:22:07.580 down and you've got all these kids, you know, filming and you've got all the violence that you

00:22:11.000 got, man, I agree. All of those things are a problem. Um, the sneakiest, most egregious thing

00:22:18.280 for me is the fact that it doesn't follow, uh, actual child development. Like it doesn't follow

00:22:25.260 human development. You, it, it presupposes that we learn best by only sitting with our,

00:22:34.360 uh, people of our own date of manufacture and listening to one other human being that has all,

00:22:40.740 you know, the keys to the kingdom that is going to just do something to me so that then I continue

00:22:45.740 to grow, um, as opposed to give me the experiences I need to grow as opposed to giving me responsibility

00:22:51.280 and letting me fail. It says failure is a bad word. Um, you know, it's, it doesn't take into

00:22:57.340 account developmental stages of, you know, the life, the brain jumps at eight at 12 at 16, like none of

00:23:04.240 that is taken into account. It is a systemic management of human behavior for 13 years in

00:23:12.000 something that doesn't mimic what you do afterwards. Everything you do in life, it doesn't look

00:23:18.200 systemically like what you are trained to do. Your baseline of normal is school. Go there, obey for

00:23:25.940 45 minutes, raise my hand, ask, you know, uh, permission to go to the bathroom. Somebody says

00:23:31.180 yes. Or somebody says no, got to be quiet. Don't talk unless you're spoken to. Here's what you have

00:23:35.600 to quote unquote learn or regurgitate. Like none of that mimics how you learn in the real world.

00:23:40.620 Um, and that to me is the most egregious, the most egregious thing. It's a microcosm of school. It's

00:23:44.980 not a microcosm of life. So why, why is that the case? I mean, what I would think is you're saying

00:23:50.980 that is that it's when you have a class of 40 kids, which I think is ridiculous. One teacher to 40 0.87

00:23:57.020 children that it has to be managed as opposed to creating a foster and fostering an environment of,

00:24:04.300 of learning and development and growth with some flexibility in there. But then also we're talking

00:24:09.100 about this as such a large scale that there has to be systems and structures in place that you just

00:24:14.960 have to march people through without consideration of what you're talking about. Is this going to mimic

00:24:20.480 the rest of life, who they are, what they have the aptitude for? Like, why, why should I have a

00:24:24.900 child, a child go through this preset agenda? If they have an aptitude for technology or an aptitude for

00:24:32.100 mechanics or an aptitude for mathematics or for the arts or whatever it might be.

00:24:36.520 That's exactly right. So it's behavior management for a large number of human beings with a very

00:24:42.620 narrow definition of what education theoretically looks like. And we've got to march every single

00:24:47.840 person through that. We would not, what you're asking is a very, it's a valid, logical question.

00:24:53.800 When would we, would we say everybody has to go to the exact same grocery store, shop down the exact same

00:24:58.740 five aisles and everybody has to eat the exact same food at the exact same time. And you have to wear

00:25:03.300 the exact same clothes. Like we scream about how we want individuality for all these things,

00:25:09.320 but the most formative years of our life, we put kids through this systemic management. And that's,

00:25:14.420 that's all it is. That's what it was designed for. It was systemic behavior management of a population.

00:25:18.800 That's literally what it was designed for. That is the Prussian military model

00:25:22.960 was designed for systemic behavioral management. And Rockefeller put his, you know, 1.3 billion into it

00:25:31.540 and says, I want a nation of workers, not a nation of thinkers. And that's what we're creating is a

00:25:37.760 nation of consumers, not a nation of creators. There is, um, you know, we S it's a system to stamp

00:25:43.300 out all individuality and free thought. It doesn't mean that people can't come out of it and then still

00:25:49.420 figure out how to be successful, but they're usually successful in spite of not necessarily because of.

00:25:54.540 Yeah. I, I, I mean, I feel like that with my own experience, you know, I, I didn't have, I, I liked

00:26:01.580 my, my educational years. Uh, you know, there are certain things I didn't want to like read or do a

00:26:06.980 book report about, for example, but you know, just typical stuff. But I remember getting into college

00:26:11.980 and, uh, there was a, an English teacher that wanted us to read a book and write a report. And I said,

00:26:16.700 why are we doing this? And I can't remember the answer she gave us so long ago, but it wasn't

00:26:20.940 satisfactory to me. So I left like, I'm out, I'm not doing that. And I lost my academic scholarship

00:26:26.260 in half a semester and, uh, went to work. And I'm so grateful that I did because I can't imagine

00:26:33.280 where I'd be a lawyer or an attorney or an engineer or something right now. Sure. But I don't know that

00:26:38.500 I'd be fulfilled. And I'm not saying those can't be fulfilling careers. I'm saying for me, that wasn't

00:26:42.280 something I was interested in. Well, and that's, that's the whole problem is that we're not diving in

00:26:46.980 and getting an idea of what these kids have an aptitude for or what they're interested

00:26:50.800 in. Right. None of that is taken into account. That again is the problem of the whole thing.

00:26:55.300 And then again, what you just said is absolutely true. I, I enjoyed school too. I had a great time

00:27:01.760 because I knew how to play the game really well. I knew how to make sure that I got along well with

00:27:06.300 the teachers. I knew how to get A's without putting any work in and I could spend all my time

00:27:10.860 on girls in sports. Like that was it. So yeah, it was a great time. I had a great time. And then I

00:27:15.740 graduated and went shit. Now, what do I do now? Who am I? Dude, I've got nothing to offer the world. 1.00

00:27:22.320 I guess I'll go to college because that's what everybody says you're supposed to do.

00:27:24.920 Right. I got my straight A's. So that's easy. So I got into every college I applied to. I picked one

00:27:29.180 because I had some buddies going there. I mean, there was no, I was like, all right, cool, man. So I'll go

00:27:32.920 there. And I kept getting my straight A's without doing any work. And I got better at sports and I

00:27:39.720 got better at girls and then graduated from college. And I went sweet. Now what? Now I'm in debt. I'm

00:27:47.020 really good at playing school and nobody cares because you're not going to go into the workforce

00:27:51.180 and play school. They're going to expect you to be able to go in and communicate, contribute,

00:27:57.520 right? Figure some things out, have a little bit of resilience. And I had gained those,

00:28:00.920 but I hadn't gained those from school. I'd gained those because I worked three jobs to put myself

00:28:04.980 through school. I gained those because I had been an athlete and I learned a lot of lessons from

00:28:09.640 sports. I gained those because I made a lot of personal mistakes. I didn't gain any of those

00:28:14.700 necessarily from the schooling itself. All I really, when I walked out of there and went, shit, okay, 0.99

00:28:20.740 I got a lot of debt now, but that's it. The skills were learned elsewhere, right? And then I had to 0.98

00:28:27.440 relearn in my early twenties at that point who I was or really learn it for the first time. Who am I?

00:28:34.640 What am I good at? What do I like? What do I dislike? I didn't start even contemplating that

00:28:41.100 until 22. What if we started having those conversations on a daily basis when they're

00:28:46.760 seven, eight, 12, 14, they have opportunities to start businesses, to take on roles and responsibilities,

00:28:54.600 to go, you know, dive into internships, go dive into apprenticeships, go interview people that are

00:29:00.480 in fields. They think they want to go in, go again. It's not a panacea. If I was on here saying like,

00:29:07.000 look, this is the only way. And this is everyone. Like you should run far, far away. There's no such

00:29:11.220 thing as a panacea, but if you have those kinds of conversations consistently, and that's normal,

00:29:18.600 you're given a foundation that's wildly different. And it goes back to what we were saying earlier on,

00:29:25.620 you know, people don't think that the young people will rise to the occasion there. No,

00:29:29.260 if you make those kinds of meta skills normal, that is the baseline for normal. I promise you,

00:29:36.220 they will, they will reach that. I was talking to Connor, you know, Connor Boyick. We've ever had

00:29:40.860 a total twin. I don't know. I don't think so. Okay. Do you know the total twins books?

00:29:45.240 I, yes, I know of them. Okay. I can introduce you to Connor, man. Such a freaking brilliant dude.

00:29:52.040 And I was talking with him about something and it was, it was hilarious, man. Like my kids read the

00:29:56.480 total twins books. We have conversations around things like taxes. And we got like, we talk about

00:30:02.040 those things normally. And so Brielle came into the kitchen, went in and she's like, okay, I, let me,

00:30:06.960 let me understand this. She's 10 right now. I think she was nine when she said this and Connor and I

00:30:12.760 were talking about it because it was, came from his book. She's like, hold on. So if the fed can

00:30:17.460 just print money anytime they want, all they do is decide they're going to print more and more money.

00:30:24.400 Why do people have to pay so much money in taxes? I don't understand why we're paying so much. And

00:30:30.060 I'm like, that's a really good question. So let's talk about that. And I was just excited because

00:30:34.160 it's a normal conversation in our house. They look at our, they look at, you know, mom and dad have a

00:30:39.280 business or have a couple of businesses and mom and dad don't own anything. They're owned by

00:30:43.940 these trusts and the trusts move money over here. And here's the, the family cashflow sheet and our

00:30:49.040 P and L like it's a normal conversation for them. And so I posted something about that saying, man,

00:30:54.660 I love it that my kids are asking these questions. And I had all kinds of people coming out of the

00:30:58.200 woodworks going, that never happened. Kids don't ask questions, right? Kids never ask questions like

00:31:02.800 that. Mine ask questions like that all the time because it's normal. It's the same reason my

00:31:09.200 kids speak English. I speak English to them around them all the time. They don't speak Chinese

00:31:14.160 because we don't fricking speak Chinese. So they ask questions like this because these are common

00:31:19.200 conversations. So it's like, what is the baseline for normal? And again, that's where school loses

00:31:26.960 me because the baseline for normal is listen to whoever claims to be the authority, no matter what

00:31:33.280 the baseline for normal is I'm really primarily being influenced only by people that are my same

00:31:41.200 age and who knows what their backgrounds are, what kind of things they're facing at home that

00:31:46.200 they're bringing to the table, right? I'm being influenced by a standard of be quiet. Don't speak

00:31:52.580 unless you're spoken to ask permission for everything from the government agent. I'm not going to set that

00:31:58.400 as the baseline for normal for 12 years for my kid and think that all of a sudden year 13, they're

00:32:03.060 going to like switch their habits out now and then be go to, you know, an effective human. That's

00:32:08.500 silly. Right. Right. Yeah. That to use your analogy, that would be like, they speak English for 12 years. 0.96

00:32:15.440 And then when they get into college, everything's in Chinese. It's like, there might be a learning curve

00:32:19.460 there. There might be a big giant learning curve and it's going to stress them out. It's going to,

00:32:24.240 right. And like, they're going to feel like they can't do anything. So again,

00:32:27.080 we're setting our kids up for, we're setting up for failure. And then there's all the nuances of,

00:32:31.800 yeah, sometimes agendas do get pushed in depending on where you are and you got teachers unions

00:32:35.500 pushing these things. Yeah. Sometimes you do have, because the kids, you know, because five-year-old

00:32:40.440 boys aren't designed to just sit there and listen to some boring commentary for six hours. Hey,

00:32:45.860 by the way, I'm 44 and I know you're in your forties and like, we don't want to sit there.

00:32:50.140 I don't want to do that. Hell no. A five-year-old young man definitely doesn't want to do that.

00:32:55.280 And then we go, ah, he's got a methamphetamine deficiency. So we better get them all strung

00:32:59.300 out right now so that he can focus, right? Like, yeah, there's a lot of these little things that

00:33:03.920 pop in there too, man, that I just, I just can't get on board with it.

00:33:08.680 Men, let me pause the conversation very quickly. We officially closed the iron council. Now we had a

00:33:14.260 lot of men band with us and I'm stoked that decided to join us, but if you missed the deadline and you

00:33:19.180 wanted to join, I want to tell you it's okay. We're going to be opening up the iron council again,

00:33:23.740 very soon in the next several months, but I do have something that you can do in the meantime

00:33:28.300 that will not only help you on your own path, but get you completely ready for the iron council

00:33:33.860 experience. It's called the battle ready program. It's free. And it's going to teach you the exact

00:33:39.080 strategies and methods that I've been using to maximize my life over the past nine years. Now

00:33:43.660 you might be thinking, well, Ryan, your life hasn't always been, you know, fairy tales and rainbows.

00:33:48.160 I know that. In fact, the times that I struggle in my life are the times when I deviate from the

00:33:54.540 system. And when I get back to the systems, my life tends to drastically improve guys. Again,

00:33:59.580 this is a free program and you'll immediately get access to a series of emails that I have written

00:34:04.440 myself to work you through the plan, help you improve your life, help you improve your iron

00:34:10.520 council council experience when you join us. So if you are interested, you can head to order of man.com

00:34:15.600 slash battle ready. Again, it's free order of man.com slash battle ready. Do that right after

00:34:21.340 the show for now. Let's get back to it with Matt. I think one of the most frustrating things to me

00:34:27.240 is that we've not only outsourced our, our children's education, but also now even more so

00:34:32.540 than I think in the past, their, their personal development, it's no longer about the, the science

00:34:37.680 and the math and the data and the learning how to learn the Socratic method. Like you talked about,

00:34:41.000 it's all the other agendas that we incorporate. And then a lot of parents, not all,

00:34:45.340 but a lot of parents are happy to do that. It's like, Oh good. I don't need to do that.

00:34:49.440 You know, I washed my hands of that. And then they're not even, even if they're having dinner

00:34:52.340 together, which they're not, but even if they do, they're not talking about that. They're not

00:34:57.720 talking about what did your kids learn today? Or, you know, what did you guys learn today? What,

00:35:01.540 what, what went well? What didn't go well? What, what questions do you have? They're not,

00:35:05.360 they're not doing that because it's so convenient and I get it. It's so convenient to have somebody

00:35:11.280 else do all that. But if you're going to do that, I don't think you maintain the right to complain

00:35:16.820 that your kids aren't being educated correctly. Bingo. Well, here's the deal. You are the primary

00:35:22.740 educator for them, period. End of story, whether you're sending them away or not, because they're

00:35:27.980 going to see what you like. You're setting the baseline for normal at home too, right? So they're

00:35:31.480 going to do what you do before they even do what you say. So who are you? Are you somebody who's

00:35:36.560 pushing, you know, education? What you said was personal development. And I love that because

00:35:40.820 we've got this weird thing culturally where we look at education and personal development as two

00:35:46.920 different things. That's one in the same. The reason they're different is because one of them,

00:35:52.720 we confuse school with education. School is a specific system and it's our specific religion,

00:35:58.680 personal development, growth. That is education. It's an infinite game that doesn't end if we're doing

00:36:04.940 it right, right? But if those parents aren't doing that and they're not involved themselves,

00:36:08.580 well, then that is the baseline of normal. You're setting for your kids. You are the primary

00:36:12.500 educator, period. End of story, whether you like it or not, you always will be. So you got to jump in

00:36:18.140 on that. One thing that I like the trend of not necessarily, you know, K through 12, but I think

00:36:25.820 college education will be, we'll see a big change in college education over the next decade. And I hope

00:36:31.660 it's one where it becomes less prevalent and less relevant in a young person's life where employers

00:36:37.980 are beginning not to look at college degrees, but their aptitude for whatever the job is that they're

00:36:43.420 applying for, maybe past experience with other work and other internships and things that they've

00:36:50.260 been doing. Do you see that changing? I think that's going to be hugely, hugely important moving

00:36:55.240 forward. Not to mention, this is what will address the college debt crisis. And there is a problem

00:37:00.420 with college debt. The way that we overcome it is not quote unquote forgiving or printing new money

00:37:05.020 like your, your daughter suggested, but to eradicate the need for this, this type of schooling and make

00:37:14.020 it less important, less relevant. Therefore tuition prices reduce and maybe even become non-existent.

00:37:22.660 That's right. Well, anybody listening and think about what they, I mean, because this is a hard

00:37:27.340 pill for a lot of people to swallow, right? Cause they're coming out of that again, that's the

00:37:30.700 emotional attachment to, ah, but you need a college degree because that's, what's going to make sure

00:37:35.440 that, you know, success happens or whatever the stuff that's provably false. If we logically take a

00:37:39.760 look at it, it's, we, we all know people who went to college and life is not okay. We know people that

00:37:44.220 didn't go to college life is great. And we know everybody in between. So college in and of itself

00:37:48.040 is no guarantee of anything. Um, and we all know that logically, but again, it's the emotional side,

00:37:53.200 but think about like where you go, if you go, all right, man, I want to learn something right now,

00:37:57.860 whatever it is. I want to move order of man, um, into, you know, the next, the next level of

00:38:03.500 achievement. And so what I need to do is X. Do you automatically go, I got to find the local

00:38:09.180 university and I got to find a course on that. No, you don't. That's not what you do. You're going to

00:38:14.080 experts. You're going to like, you're figuring out, you're going to the connections. You're going

00:38:17.440 like, you're going to figure out how to do it, but almost guaranteed. You're not going to go,

00:38:21.420 I'm going to find a university course. But for our kids, for some reason, we're like, Hey,

00:38:26.220 let's go grab a unit, a whole bunch of, of university coursework to get a degree,

00:38:30.880 because that's, what's going to, some people are starting to realize that more and more,

00:38:34.780 but more importantly, what you said, employers are also recognizing that more and more. This is

00:38:41.460 actually something that's been going on for years at this point. They're just now publicly

00:38:45.540 talking about it. I had high school students who were simultaneously seniors in high school

00:38:54.320 and working remote jobs that were degree required jobs because taught them how to get in front of

00:39:04.620 those people. They showed that they had the skillset to take care of the job and that they could do the

00:39:09.940 work and they got hired. This is happening over and over and over. And a lot of companies are now

00:39:15.340 being vocal about it. We have companies come to us every single week. At this point, I had one,

00:39:21.260 Nestle just came to us last week and just said, Hey, here's this remote position. Because I know a guy

00:39:27.640 who is one of the hiring managers for this specific division. And he said, Hey, this job says, you know,

00:39:34.200 three years experience, preferred degree, preferred man. I don't, do you have any good young men?

00:39:39.980 Because I know the values that they bring. I know the work ethic they bring. Do you have any young

00:39:44.060 men that might be interested in this position? Because I don't even want to put this out on

00:39:47.400 Indeed. I'd rather go straight here. Like we're seeing that over and over and over. And, and our

00:39:54.080 universe, like we're building an Apogee university that'll be, you know, post this K through 12, but

00:39:59.880 it's all going to be internship based, apprenticeship based. It's going to be real world experience working

00:40:04.720 with these companies that we are working with. Um, because more and more organizations are being

00:40:09.160 vocal that they just want somebody that can do a good job and they don't have to worry about the,

00:40:11.960 the dramatic effect of, you know, whatever this young person is dealing with. If they got a good

00:40:17.940 character driven young person, they're ready to rock and roll. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. But,

00:40:22.840 you know, my, my question is how do you begin to find some of these students aptitude? Cause you say,

00:40:27.800 you know, they're going to be able to interview people that they're interested in interviewing. And I've done

00:40:31.180 that actually a couple of times with some of your young men that have interviewed me.

00:40:34.140 Yeah. It's always amazing when I talk with one of your young men, because it's yes, sir. Thank you,

00:40:40.260 sir. And the questions they ask are extremely insightful and thoughtful questions. And I've

00:40:45.880 never had an experience where I'm like, Oh, he wasn't prepared or ready. It's always high level

00:40:49.560 of respect, high level of preparation, but how do you find and, and articulate and foster a certain

00:40:56.860 aptitude for whatever vein these students might want to travel when it comes to their learning?

00:41:02.240 Do you mean, how do you find that? So how do you find that as the educator?

00:41:07.620 Right. Because there, there does need to be some guidance and direction because if you,

00:41:11.560 if you leave them alone, I imagine it turns into Lord of the flies and then, you know, it's going to be

00:41:15.700 chaos. Yeah. So the, what you just mentioned, right, your experience with these young men. So there are

00:41:21.820 standards that we set and then experiences that we offer. And that's how we take a look at it from an

00:41:28.980 educational standpoint. It's how I take a look at it from a parenting standpoint. Right. And I,

00:41:33.400 and I look at all these young men and I look at everybody on our campuses as an extension of my

00:41:38.200 family. Ultimately what happens, right? Ultimately as a parent, you want to have a really solid

00:41:43.700 relationship with your kids. All of your kids are amazing human beings. They're freaking some of the

00:41:48.320 coolest kids on the planet. And what I love is one, there's obviously a very clear bond between them

00:41:53.520 and you too. They're obviously very competent human beings too. I can see if you're projecting

00:41:58.620 in the future, my guess is those Mickler kids are going to go out and they're going to build

00:42:02.240 lives that have purpose and have intent. And of course there's going to be failures and struggles

00:42:07.480 and there's going to be all the things that humanity brings, but they're going to take on all of those

00:42:11.600 things. They're going to build out a life and they're going to be competent human beings while

00:42:16.020 wanting to still have a relationship with dad. You don't want any of your kids living with you when

00:42:22.320 they're 40 years old, right? You want them to be competent individuals. So it's the same thing

00:42:28.220 here. So what we do is we set a standard and then experiences because ultimately they need to need

00:42:34.140 us less and less. Standards are what you're talking about. As an organization, we have our family

00:42:40.740 contract. This is as our family. Here's how Baudreau show up. As an organization, Apogee campuses,

00:42:46.740 Apogee mentorship programs. Here's how we show up. If you don't show up this way, then you're not

00:42:51.180 invited to stick around, but you're going to have a ridiculous amount of respect. It is going to be

00:42:55.760 yes, sir. No, sir. Yes, ma'am. No, ma'am. That's just how we're going to operate. And here's why.

00:43:01.820 Here's what it is. And in fact, month one, I want you to start testing this and you're going to

00:43:06.760 document the change in all the people around you. I want you to see why we do this. I can tell you why

00:43:12.440 we do it, but I want you to see why we do it. And so here's our standard. Physical health is a standard

00:43:17.480 for us. You're going to be physically active. You're going to understand how nutrition plays a

00:43:22.120 role in your, in your mental ability and your ability to show up as the best version of you.

00:43:26.580 So we're going to go through an experience that ties the standard in, right? And says, look, this is now

00:43:33.520 a part of me. So we're going to set those standards up front. Once we have those meta skill standards,

00:43:39.400 you're physically healthy. We've got manners and respect that always matters. Um, you are going to,

00:43:45.940 um, take on as much personal responsibility as humanly possible. We're going to take a look at

00:43:51.000 your schedule and I'm going to dive into time and energy management. Like once we have these

00:43:55.260 meta skills, you're going to learn to communicate. Um, and what that means to communicate effectively,

00:43:59.320 here are the rules of engagement on a good conversation so that you can keep your emotion

00:44:04.940 out of it. And you can focus on the rules of engagement. Those standards are now set.

00:44:09.880 Now I want to give you an experience in this subject. I want to give you an experience in,

00:44:14.900 uh, this category. I want to give you an experience in this category and then get your feedback. You

00:44:19.560 like it. You dislike it. There were things you were good at. There were things you were bad at.

00:44:23.740 There were things you want to get better. Like it's that that's how humans actually grow.

00:44:29.400 So it's the same thing. Give standards. Once you have the standard set, then you go to the buffet

00:44:34.120 of experiences to see what you like. So like our home education families right now are going through,

00:44:38.740 um, a computer science themed project. And it's so cool to see all the families go,

00:44:45.680 ah, yeah, my kid really loves this or my kid really hates this. Cool. Both. Those are great.

00:44:49.960 It's a great experience. I understand you love it or you hate it, but they all come at it with the

00:44:54.900 same standards of what a good human is. And then they go through the experience and figure out who

00:45:02.500 they are as that good human. It's really actually simple.

00:45:07.960 Yeah, that's powerful. And not having an expectation. I think sometimes, and I did this

00:45:12.340 with my kids early on, especially my older two, where I thought they had to follow in my footsteps

00:45:16.300 and do exactly what I wanted them to do. And if they weren't doing it this way or interested in what

00:45:21.040 I was interested in, something was wrong. But what I've learned just because I've been doing it for a

00:45:25.440 little while is that the more that I can create opportunities and foster growth in something

00:45:30.620 they're interested in, not only is it easier for me, because I'm not having to struggle to go

00:45:35.100 through something they don't want to go through, but I can just see how much more of an aptitude they

00:45:39.660 have for certain things versus others. It's, it's, it's exactly right, man. And it gives you an

00:45:45.500 opportunity at that point too, to be co-curious. That's one of the things parents can really,

00:45:52.120 something parents can implement it like right away is to be co-curious to, to maintain,

00:45:56.880 you know, I think the sense of wonder and curiosity is a factory setting. And it has a

00:46:01.980 God-given thing that we all have. We come out very curious, very like just in awe of the world

00:46:08.740 around us. And we want to explore and we want to try things. And failure isn't something that,

00:46:13.400 you know, you look at a baby trying to walk. They're not worried about the fact they fell on

00:46:16.160 their ass. Like they're going to keep going, man. They're not worried about the failure until the 1.00

00:46:19.640 parent starts going, Ooh, Oh, don't fail. Don't mess this up. Don't like, then they start going

00:46:25.640 like, wait, what the hell, what am I doing? Something is wrong. My parent is obviously reacting.

00:46:29.040 So like, it gives us the opportunity to get back into that childlike wonder with them and be co-curious

00:46:34.120 with them when we're engaging with the things that they're interested in. We can maintain that. And if

00:46:39.900 we maintain that for them, their sense of resilience and you know, work ethic around it, it goes through

00:46:45.640 the roof. And I love what you said too. You were able to release expectations. I think parents

00:46:51.360 conflate that a bunch too. And so do educators. Standards should always, there's a standard for

00:47:00.160 everything. Standards are objective. Expectations are usually subjective. And that's where we can get

00:47:06.680 into the resentment because an expectation wasn't meant, wasn't met. But it's more of an emotional

00:47:12.100 attachment there. Whereas if we just have a standard, right? That's why we parent the way we

00:47:16.460 Boudreaux have a standard of showing up this way. That's our standard. It's objective.

00:47:21.940 So if you're not meeting the standard, I get to call you out on that. By the way,

00:47:25.540 if dad doesn't meet the standard, you get to call me out on that. Right. Right. And that's it. So

00:47:30.680 that's, this is just how we do life. Whereas expectations, you know, provide a little bit more

00:47:35.300 more subjectivity. Um, and those are worth releasing. Yeah. What, so what is your thought

00:47:40.820 then on grades? Like everybody's well aware of, you know, the grading system, you get your report

00:47:45.980 back and it's a C plus and it's got all these marks and everything on it. Like, is that, is that,

00:47:51.660 is that a good thing? Is that a requirement? Is it necessary in some way? Or how does that grading

00:47:56.520 system work relative to the way we see the public school system? I mean, the world grades you

00:48:01.860 somehow. Sure. Just don't usually do it with an arbitrary measure, right? So if I'm bringing

00:48:07.280 my product to the market, do people buy my product? Does somebody else have a similar product,

00:48:13.280 but it gets purchased, you know, to a greater degree? Why? Why am I going to reflect on that?

00:48:17.620 The world is going to give you a grade. Your bank account can be seen as a grade. The relationships

00:48:22.680 you have, if you have a solid relationship and negative, there is a grading aspect, but the school

00:48:28.680 grades are essentially an arbitrary measurement of obedience, at least in the way it is set up.

00:48:36.600 So if you obey to this level and you, um, regurgitate to this level in some subjects,

00:48:46.160 if you're subject, I mean, there was, again, I learned how to play the game of school, right? So

00:48:50.220 in things like English and history, um, where there were some things that were essays, which were a

00:48:55.020 little more subjective. I didn't care about the material. I cared about who's the teacher. Okay.

00:49:01.200 Well, this is Mr. Mickler's class. This is how Mr. Mickler lives his life. I can watch him. Here's

00:49:07.180 what he likes. Here's what he dislikes. Here's what he thinks. He was very clear about what he thought

00:49:12.060 as he taught this. He's very clear about the things he was against. So if I just essentially parrot back

00:49:17.400 his own feelings to him, I'm going to get an A because this is really, right? I learned that very early

00:49:23.740 on. That's why I got straight A's all the time with no effort because I studied the people.

00:49:29.320 So in that regard, and I could regurgitate what I knew. I was like, okay, well, if they're giving us

00:49:33.660 these multiple choice tests and here's how you do well on that. So I learned the system of that.

00:49:38.300 So any of my A's were not indicative of a competency that was going to take me anywhere in life,

00:49:46.500 other than maybe being able to read human beings pretty well. Right. But it didn't show any kind of

00:49:52.260 mastery of any subject material. So I'm not a huge fan of the letter grades, particularly because

00:49:57.060 of that, but life is always going to, is always going to grade you. So that's one of the toughest

00:50:02.080 things is go, okay, well, how do you measure competency in anything? Right. What, what is worth

00:50:07.360 measuring and how do you, you know, how do you measure that? So do you measure it based on the

00:50:12.220 subjectivity of, is this my best work? Do you measure it based on, well, here's a world, you know,

00:50:17.720 what's considered a world-class example of this. And here's how I stack up. And I did this a little

00:50:22.300 better, you know, than last time, those are the things worth wrestling with because those are the

00:50:27.700 ways that we measure things as we move into adulthood too. How do you measure anything that

00:50:33.600 you measure in your life? Um, you know, you're taking those things and nobody's giving you,

00:50:38.100 Hey, Ryan, you got an A on order of man this year. Right. What does that mean?

00:50:43.380 What does that mean? You and Breck, your relationship, man, it was an A, it was an A this

00:50:47.600 year. Okay. How do you define that? You know? So yeah, it's, that's a, it's a tougher thing,

00:50:53.080 but at the school grades, that's, that's really what it is measuring.

00:50:57.340 Yeah. I like that. When you said it's a, what did you say? Arbitrary measure of obedience.

00:51:01.100 That's really interesting. And, and I don't want, I thought about that with my own kids. Like,

00:51:04.720 I don't want them to be blindfully obedient. I want them to respect certain things. I want them to

00:51:10.960 respect me as their father. I want them to respect, uh, the country, you know, that, that I want them

00:51:18.920 to respect certain individuals. Maybe it's a head football coach or something like there's, but I

00:51:23.860 don't want them just to blindly just have obedience towards every person. I want them to be able to say,

00:51:28.280 no, I want them to be able to say, I don't agree with that. Like, those are things that are important

00:51:32.420 for me to have them learn. That's right. And, and I think most parents would, would say that and truly

00:51:38.880 feel that, but then the irony is we throw them into a system that does not value that.

00:51:43.980 Yeah. What have you heard it? You've heard it asked. And, you know, when you were a student,

00:51:47.740 I heard it asked, you know, a million times and I've had it asked of me when I was an educator,

00:51:51.540 you know, or when I was in the classroom as a teacher, um, why do we have to do this? 0.65

00:51:56.500 Uh, because I said, so that's a shitty answer. That sucks. If you can't really genuinely, um, 0.98

00:52:04.260 inspire them to understand what it's about. And we can't really make bridge a, uh, you know,

00:52:09.240 to the reality of it, then we're doing a disservice to them, you know? And I, I always, I was what I

00:52:14.700 called creatively insubordinate as a, as a teacher, because I had young guys who were fricking brilliant.

00:52:23.060 I mean, my first, some of my first schools, man, brilliant young people, um, growing up in,

00:52:28.760 in gangland households, brilliant young people who are being told as soon as they get home,

00:52:34.580 get out on the porch. Cause you got a sling, you know, and it's, but they're brilliant.

00:52:39.320 And so I'm mentoring them the best that I can to try to show them what kind of amazing

00:52:45.140 opportunities they could have and what kind of things are going to have to overcome and the gifts

00:52:49.900 that they've got. But from a school perspective, well, this young man needs algebra and he needs

00:52:55.700 to pass algebra. No, he doesn't. That's not what he needs right now. It's doesn't need to pass

00:53:00.680 algebra. He needs to not sell drugs when he gets home. He doesn't need to pass algebra. He needs

00:53:04.740 to understand that he's got more value than having to go out there and participate when they're,

00:53:09.000 you know, talking about how they need to go jump this kid. No, you don't, man. You don't need to

00:53:12.620 put yourself in that situation. Right. And so, um, you know, that's an extreme example, but it's also

00:53:17.620 a microcosm of, of all this doing the right thing is always the right thing. Even if it's not the

00:53:21.940 popular thing that everybody's doing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Matt, you've got a, uh, an uphill

00:53:27.420 battle. I hope to be able to help you in some way and just, man, seeing your, your young kids come

00:53:32.020 and talk with me and just seeing what you're doing and, and it's powerful. Do us a favor. Let us know

00:53:37.640 where we can connect, excuse me, connect with you, learn more about what you're doing and, uh, get all

00:53:42.880 the information. Thanks brother. I appreciate it greatly, man. And they always, I mean, like there's a

00:53:48.000 reason they, they continuously want to go to you for interviews and stuff too, man. So you do show

00:53:52.080 up in, in, in, in a powerful, yeah. Honored to be able to do it. Um, but best place right now,

00:53:57.140 we're going to keep updating apogee strong.com. It's going to eventually show, we're going to show

00:54:00.820 where all the schools are. We're going to link to the foundations that people want to get involved

00:54:05.020 that way, but that's going to be the best place to go, man. And people can reach out to me directly,

00:54:08.520 just at my name, um, most active on Instagram. You can ping Tim too, and tell him he's a monkey. Um,

00:54:14.180 he just doesn't get back as quickly, as quickly as I do, but those are the best places to find us.

00:54:20.020 And for those who don't know, uh, he's talking about Tim Kennedy as a, as a partner and what

00:54:24.380 you guys are doing. I actually saw, this was months and months ago. I think I sent you a

00:54:27.440 message. I was at the gym and saw you guys on, I think it was Fox and friends maybe that I saw you

00:54:31.380 on or something. Yeah. And so it was, it was pretty cool. I saw a couple of people there like

00:54:38.160 listening intently to what you guys were talking about. So it's cool to see it's inspiring. And,

00:54:42.880 and I hope to help you. I can, Matt, appreciate you, brother. Thanks for joining me and talking

00:54:46.840 about what you do. This is much needed in society. Honor is always mine, brother. Appreciate you.

00:54:53.420 All right, gentlemen, there you go. My conversation with my good friend,

00:54:56.100 we spent a lot of time, we've broken bread together. Our families have spent time together,

00:54:59.640 Matt Boudreau. Uh, I hope you enjoyed that one. I, my, my hope is that it caused you to think

00:55:06.080 a little bit more about how you're having your children educated. It's scary. It's a really scary

00:55:12.560 environment in the public school system. I'm not saying it can't work. I'm not saying there aren't

00:55:16.820 great teachers there that want to help and are there for the right reasons and doing good work,

00:55:21.360 but still, I'm not going to leave that to chance. And I hope that you feel the same. So if you want

00:55:26.500 to learn more about what Matt is up to connect with him on Instagram, go to apogeestrong.com.

00:55:31.140 You can see all about their programs, including frequently asked questions, where their campuses

00:55:35.480 are and all the information. And I hope that we can get more men enrolled in programs

00:55:39.020 like this one, alternative education to create a better future for them and for our country as

00:55:43.640 well. So please connect with Matt, connect with me, take a screenshot, check out the battle ready

00:55:48.260 program, order a man.com slash battle ready. Again, that's a free program. And then check out my good

00:55:53.240 friends over at Montana knife company.com for all your knife needs. Sounds kind of funny. Your knife

00:55:58.680 needs. Yes. You need a knife. Every man needs a knife. We have been for tens of thousands of years

00:56:04.760 using sharp instruments to complete tasks. If you're going to do it, do it right with Montana

00:56:09.320 knife company.com use the code order of man. All right, guys, that's all I've got for you until

00:56:14.860 our conversation tomorrow or ask me anything tomorrow, go out there, take action, become the

00:56:20.420 man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take

00:56:26.800 charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order

00:56:31.460 of man.com.

Order of Man - January 09, 2024

MATT BEAUDREAU ｜ The Broken Public School System

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