Order of Man - MATTHEW MCCONAUGHEY ｜ Greenlights

00:00:00.000 Most of you are probably well aware of Matthew McConaughey and his new book, Green Lights. Now,

00:00:04.720 I'll admit I was a bit hesitant to read the book myself. I actually explained why to Matthew in

00:00:09.400 this podcast. But after hearing from enough people that I had to read it or I had to listen to it,

00:00:14.520 I decided to pick up a copy. And let me tell you, it did not disappoint. So when I had the

00:00:19.680 opportunity to have Matthew join me on the podcast, I jumped at that chance. We talk about

00:00:25.140 a lot of important topics, very, very important topics in this conversation and really hit on

00:00:30.580 fatherhood as we're approaching Father's Day. We also discussed the power of being the underdog,

00:00:36.300 reinventing yourself, the value of sacrifice, taking our fathers off pedestals they don't belong,

00:00:42.180 and ultimately the concept and benefits of green lights in your life.

00:00:46.860 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly charge

00:00:51.560 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:56.980 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, or strong. This is your life. This is

00:01:03.640 who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done,

00:01:09.340 you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going on? My name is Ryan Mickler. I am the host and

00:01:15.340 the founder of the Order of Man podcast. And as you know, we've got an incredible lineup, including

00:01:19.600 my guest today, the one and only Matthew McConaughey. What a powerful and amazing opportunity

00:01:24.860 to have a conversation with this man who has been extremely, extremely successful in his life and

00:01:30.720 be able to take some of his information and insights and break it down over the course of

00:01:36.860 our conversation and share with you. And that's ultimately what we're doing here on the podcast,

00:01:40.740 guys, giving you the tools, the resources, the conversations, the insights and ideas from

00:01:44.820 incredible men who have been very, very successful and then letting you have access to that information.

00:01:50.700 So you and me and everybody else listening can apply that in our own lives. So we're going to get

00:01:55.180 to the conversation here very, very quickly. Just really quickly do want to mention that I need your

00:02:01.180 support. We're continuing to grow this grassroots movement of reclaiming and restore masculinity,

00:02:06.700 but it's going to take your work as well as mine. I'm doing as much as I can here on my end.

00:02:13.020 I ask that you band with me, that you march with me, that you stand in this fight to reclaim

00:02:17.320 masculinity in this degenerate society that seems to be increasingly dismissive of it.

00:02:21.900 And all I need you to do right now, a couple of things. Number one, leave a rating or review

00:02:26.080 goes a very long way. It takes you two minutes. That's all I ask. Leave a rating or review. Very,

00:02:30.320 very simple. In addition to that, just share this, take a screenshot of you listening to this podcast

00:02:35.620 or a screenshot of, uh, uh, the app on your phone, wherever you're listening and just share it on

00:02:41.640 the Instagram, on Twitter, on Facebook, on the socials, wherever you're doing the podcasting

00:02:46.440 and social media thing and let people know what you're listening to. Cause there's men who need

00:02:50.340 to hear what Matthew and I talk about today. And there's men who need to hear all of the

00:02:54.320 conversations that we have with other incredible men and the insights that we've been sharing for the

00:02:57.940 past six years. That's it. Very simple. Share, open your mouth. If you have good information,

00:03:03.480 you have information that's going to serve other people, then I feel like we have a responsibility

00:03:06.920 to let people know where they can access these tools. And it's right here with the order man

00:03:12.020 podcast. So please do that. All right, guys, with that announcement, let me get to my guest.

00:03:16.320 As I said earlier, this is the one and only Matthew McConaughey. And I'm sure none of you need an

00:03:20.620 introduction to who this man is. We all know him from his iconic roles on the silver screen.

00:03:26.160 Uh, but most of us have never been introduced to the depth of his thoughts and ideas and insights,

00:03:31.940 which are plenty. Uh, in fact, that's why I enjoyed his new book green light so much, uh, in it,

00:03:37.200 he gives us a glimpse into his life that most of us will never see or never have even considered

00:03:42.920 before and showed us that in spite of his tremendous public success, he's a man who has had his share of

00:03:49.180 failures and setbacks like all of us have. So guys, I really think you're going to enjoy this

00:03:54.400 conversation as much as I did. And you're going to walk away with a new perspective into the life of a

00:03:58.480 man that we may think, just think that we already know. Enjoy the conversation guys.

00:04:05.620 All right, Matthew, good to see you, man. Glad you could join us on the podcast today.

00:04:09.660 Good to be here, Ryan.

00:04:11.420 Look on honest confession time here for me. Uh, when your book came out, I'm like, nah,

00:04:16.000 I saw it in the airport. I think that was the first time I saw it. I'm like, nah, I'm not going

00:04:20.320 to read that book. Nah, I'm not going to read that book. And then I saw other people had you on their

00:04:24.500 podcast and I heard interviews you did. I'm like, nah, I'm not going to read that book.

00:04:27.580 And finally enough people said, you really ought to read the book. And, uh, I started listening a

00:04:32.980 little bit more to your podcast. I read the book. I'm like, damn, I should have read the book earlier

00:04:37.040 because it was amazing, man. I, uh, I actually listened to it and your narration and everything 0.97

00:04:42.960 was just, it was incredible. I really enjoyed it. Thank you. Now question, fun question.

00:04:47.580 How do you look at that and go, man, I'm not reading that book. Cause I know that a lot of people

00:04:52.260 weren't going to read that book because I wrote that book. I don't think it was because you wrote

00:04:57.640 the book. I had made some assumptions about you and I think Hollywood in general, like what's this

00:05:03.720 guy going to teach me that I already haven't figured out on my own, or I'm not in the midst

00:05:09.080 of learning for myself. Heard, heard. I figured, you know, I mean, I remember, I remember telling

00:05:14.200 one of my publishers before I headed off to the desert to go write, I said, look, a lot of people

00:05:19.860 are going to buy this book because I wrote it. Even if what's on the pages is crap. I go, a lot 0.99

00:05:25.420 of people are not going to buy this book, no matter how good it is on the pages, because I wrote it.

00:05:29.900 I go, I've got to, I remember writing this down on day four writing. I was like, look, may the words

00:05:34.600 on these pages be worthy of sharing if they're signed by anonymous. And at the same time, be words

00:05:40.320 that only I could have written. So that was sort of my North star for, because I understood

00:05:44.520 I had a platform being who I am as a celebrity that some people are going to go, man, I dig

00:05:49.500 McConaughey, I'll read it. I understood also my platform as a celebrity. Some people go, ain't no

00:05:53.380 way I'm reading that book. Right. Well, I think one of the things that you talked about in the book

00:05:57.860 that really resonated with me, I think it was towards the end when you were talking about you

00:06:01.920 redefining yourself, your specifically your career from this rom-com guy to, hey, I got to stop doing

00:06:08.420 that all together and redefine myself. Because I think a lot of people just naturally think,

00:06:13.080 well, that's McConaughey. He's the rom-com guy. He's the good looking guy. He gets the chicks. 0.98

00:06:16.980 And there's not much more depth to him than that.

00:06:19.240 Right. Well, that's what was, you know, the success of those rom-coms and parlayed with the fact

00:06:25.740 that paparazzi were taking pictures of me running shirtless on the beach every day out front of those

00:06:30.460 houses that those rom-coms paid for. Yeah.

00:06:34.180 The success of those made the industry and the public go, well, McConaughey's the rom-com guy.

00:06:41.460 I mean, that's it. So when I wanted to go do dramas, the studios and everyone else were like,

00:06:45.540 no way, dude, stay in your lane. And I was like, it's a good lane. I enjoy this lane.

00:06:50.980 But it was a time where my life was getting so vital. I talk about it in the book. I would have

00:06:56.120 a child. You got children?

00:06:58.480 Right. I've got four.

00:06:59.560 Four. So, you know, I mean, man, after your first child, you know, man's never more courageous and

00:07:05.540 masculine. And all of a sudden I was like, man, I'm feeling so vital in my life, much more vital

00:07:10.700 than my work. And I was like, well, I'm glad it goes that way, you know, then the opposite. But I was

00:07:15.320 like, I'd like to do some work that challenges the vitality I'm feeling in my life. That work was not

00:07:19.980 coming my way. So because I couldn't do what I wanted to do, I had just decided to stop doing

00:07:24.220 what I'd been doing. And as you see in the book, it took about two years to sort of unbrand and all

00:07:29.920 of a sudden be a new good idea for those dramas I wanted to do. Well, one of the things that you

00:07:35.040 talked about too is how much money you actually walked away from. And look, a lot of guys are in

00:07:42.020 the same boat. I was in the same boat years ago. I was doing a financial planning practice. It was going

00:07:47.020 well. I was having success, success. I was helping people. And I remember taking a phone

00:07:51.440 call from a client that came up on the phone and I'm like, damn, I don't want to answer this call 0.97

00:07:56.360 right now. Right. And it wasn't the work and it wasn't the client. I should say it wasn't the client 0.97

00:08:01.700 individually. It was the work that I just was like, I'm done. I'm out.

00:08:05.840 What'd you do when you did? I mean, cause I had that exact same moment when I had a production

00:08:10.780 company and I had five employees at an office in Venice and I'm at home and the phone rang and

00:08:17.040 their number came up and I knew it was from the office. And I went to pick up the phone and my

00:08:20.220 hand paused. And I looked at my hand, I said, what are you doing? Pausing to pick up the damn phone

00:08:24.540 call from your own office that you pay the salaries that you pay the rent. And I was like, I let it 0.99

00:08:30.160 ring. And soon as it quit ringing, I picked up the phone and called my lawyer and said, no more

00:08:35.640 production company, letting everything go, man. Because I was like, what? That makes no sense. I was

00:08:39.740 like, what'd you do after that call? I had a time. I remember I had a real heart to heart

00:08:45.620 with my wife and I said, hon, I'm not in this thing anymore. I had already started what I'm

00:08:50.800 doing here now, but it wasn't full time. And I had a real heart to heart. And over the

00:08:55.240 course of, I would say six months or so, phased out of that business, sold my financial planning

00:09:00.100 practice and ramped this thing up and went full time with this, what we're doing now.

00:09:03.400 I heard. So that was a big gamble.

00:09:05.360 Yeah. Well, it was a big gamble, but you said, you said it when you talked about in the book,

00:09:10.520 you know, you've been into gambling, but gambling and investing in yourself, right? That's the

00:09:15.540 biggest gamble you can take. And the one that's going to pay off the most.

00:09:18.800 And the one that, you know, if it works, you can look in the mirror and go, good job.

00:09:25.720 Yes.

00:09:25.920 You know, if it doesn't work, you can look in the mirror and go, bogey. You know, it's the

00:09:30.860 knowing. It's the not knowing when we do, when we start investing in so many other things that are

00:09:35.260 like, we start these little campfires out there and have a trust in other people to get it done

00:09:39.540 the right way. Or, you know, we're not quite sure. We over leverage our stuff. You don't know where

00:09:44.960 the cracks are. You don't know where the cracks and transitions, things will get done exactly how

00:09:48.360 you want to be. And you go to bed, not knowing. It's the not knowing that'll keep me up at night.

00:09:54.400 I'd rather, you know, it's, it's the going, what if I would have had the courage to say,

00:09:58.800 no, I'm going to do that. And I'm going to invest in myself. Um, that it's the not knowing and going,

00:10:04.720 why did that not work? It's part of the reason why I haven't been acting here recently. I,

00:10:08.960 my last few films, I am very clear on why I did the films. No, and they were, they were not financial.

00:10:15.040 They were not box office hits. I was very clear and still am clear with why I did the film. I'm

00:10:19.600 very clear with that. The experience I had making those films was excellent. Where I've got a blind 1.00

00:10:25.600 spot is in the third act of, wait a minute, the movie didn't do well. Was that a marketing

00:10:30.600 problem? Did we come out of the wrong? That was the stuff that was out of my hands.

00:10:34.100 And then it fumbled, you know, and, and, and, and it didn't see the light of day. 0.99

00:10:38.280 That blind spot made me go, damn it. I don't like having that blind spot. I want to have a little 0.99

00:10:42.460 more control. No, if it works. Yep. If it doesn't, yep. Then I know.

00:10:48.080 Well, you know, it's a, it's a scary thing when you gamble on yourself, but it's also very empowering

00:10:52.420 because let's say it doesn't work out and it isn't going to work out a lot of the time,

00:10:56.340 at least the way you see it initially. Well, you actually have the power to do something about

00:11:00.640 it. And to me, that's empowering rather than putting it in somebody else's hands.

00:11:04.260 It's, I mean, there's the buzz, right? There's, there, there's, there's part of trying to get

00:11:09.040 our eight seconds on the bull in this rodeo called life right there. I mean, you know,

00:11:14.260 I don't always know what the hell I want to do. I got, I got people I work with. I go into,

00:11:19.320 I start something and then think I've got it down. The plan doesn't go as well. And I

00:11:22.780 seek counsel, you know, from people who can hopefully tell me the truth or say, Oh, you know

00:11:27.720 what? There's actually someone in there's someone with the title that does what you're looking for.

00:11:32.120 And I'm like, Oh, I didn't know that person exists. Yes. Here they are. And he, Oh, thank you. Or,

00:11:36.600 you know, my wife will nudge me in a way where she'll go. I think you're getting off in the weeds

00:11:41.040 over here. And I'll be like, my first reaction is no, I'm not. And then I look at it.

00:11:45.940 Don't tell me my business. Yeah. You're right. I mean, let me get back, back focused. Um,

00:11:51.760 but I don't, it's a buzz trying to figure out. I love, it makes us, I love feeling like an

00:11:57.640 underdog. I love it when I'm like, Oh, okay. I'm, I'm, I'm in a pinch here. I'm not sure where to go.

00:12:03.820 This isn't working out exactly how I planned on it working out. Now. Why? Why? Well, here we go.

00:12:09.480 I, that's a, that's a fun buzz that I, that I, that I enjoy.

00:12:15.000 I'm with you. I think a lot of people enjoy that, but I also think a lot of people are so afraid or,

00:12:19.260 uh, create excuses. You know, let's go back to those preconceived notions. Cause I know what

00:12:23.920 some people listening to this podcast are already going to say about you making pivots in your life

00:12:28.780 and gambling on yourself is in their mind or even verbally. They're saying, well, that's easy for you

00:12:34.780 to say. Right. And then they excuse themselves because they think you have it different or

00:12:41.700 they're an Island or nobody else has ever experienced what they are currently experiencing.

00:12:47.180 Right. I mean, I hear you. Um, you know, let's look at this last year and a half with COVID.

00:12:56.440 Am I, and you probably in a privileged position say my pantry was full. Um, I didn't have to work

00:13:06.800 today to pay the rent tomorrow. Was that a, a privileged position? Sure. Have, do I believe

00:13:13.060 I've earned it? Yeah. But does trying to see the upside of this last year and a half of limbo of,

00:13:23.140 hey, double down on family where you can, um, uh, double down on doing personal inventory

00:13:29.000 because now we're forced to, does that still applicable to someone who may be out of a job

00:13:34.680 or maybe, maybe whose pantry may not be full? Yes, it is. Um, so I'm not speaking to you from

00:13:40.160 up high going, Oh, I have access to, uh, um, something different than, than, than you do,

00:13:45.400 or I have access to approaching the hardship situation differently than someone else. It's, it's,

00:13:51.580 it's so, no, it's, it's applicable to, to, to anyone. Um, I mean, it, it, it, it's easy to say

00:13:58.520 that it's easy to say what you said to people. Oh, well, that's easy for you to say. Well,

00:14:03.540 no, we all got different hardships that are of equivalent natures, no matter what, no matter

00:14:09.500 where, how successful we are. Um, so the approach and how you, how we look at a hardship or crisis

00:14:17.980 is universal is we, that's the one where it's like, I don't always say this, we're all victims,

00:14:23.660 but do we choose to be victimized is where the choice comes in, which everybody's got that choice

00:14:30.400 at any level, as far as I can tell. Yeah, I, I agree with that. We've all had bad things happen

00:14:37.000 to us. We all have rough upbringings in one form or the other, or had a bad experience. And you can

00:14:42.420 use that as an excuse to self-destruct. I've done that in my life or you can use it and say,

00:14:51.180 you know, yeah, that was a shitty situation or that wasn't ideal, or I wish I would have had it

00:14:56.260 differently, but let me create something different from that. And let me learn from those lessons.

00:15:00.040 I mean, you talk about that with your, I mean, your wild upbringing with your mother and your

00:15:04.500 father and your brothers. It's, it was, uh, it was very interesting because I saw a lot of what you

00:15:10.040 experienced in, in my own, in the parallels of my own childhood and upbringing. Very,

00:15:14.400 very interesting stuff. How, how, how'd you see it in your own upbringing? I mean,

00:15:19.020 you know, a lot of those stories that in, in the book I talk about my upbringing, people,

00:15:23.760 their hand goes to their mouth in horror. Yeah. Yeah. They go, oh my gosh, you must've

00:15:28.440 needed Matthew so much psychiatric help. They're like, oh my gosh, you poor baby. I mean, I wish you,

00:15:35.080 but you were so happy to get out of that house. No, no, those were love. Those were love stories. I don't judge.

00:15:40.040 How my mom and dad raised us. If anything, I applaud them. They had different means of going

00:15:44.320 about raising my kids than I have about going about raising my kids. Um, they had different

00:15:49.560 means about raising us than I do go about raising mine, but I don't judge. I mean,

00:15:53.920 it's a lot of things worked out well, and there was a lot of genius in how they did it. It's how

00:15:57.660 they knew. Um, we never came away injured yet. Was there some pain to where we hurt? Yeah,

00:16:03.180 but we weren't ever injured. Um, and, uh, it was just their style and it's what they knew. And,

00:16:08.560 and, and, and so I see those as love stories, you know, and I, and I tell those stories that

00:16:15.120 usually had to do with some sort of violence because that's when the love our family had

00:16:19.740 was tested the most. That's when the typical stereotypical, the stereotypical story you

00:16:24.140 think, oh, this is when it breaks. Oh, this is when the family implodes and breaks, blows up. No,

00:16:29.200 no, not so. It was tested. The iron was tested in the fire, but it was never going to break.

00:16:36.980 Yeah. I like that. You know, I, I look at my own experience with, with, uh, my father and what I

00:16:41.860 used to do is I used to put them up on this pedestal as an adult, I would put them up on a

00:16:46.420 pedestal. Uh, and, and I would say, you know, uh, he should be this, he should do that. He should

00:16:52.640 perform this way. He should show up this way for me. Uh, and it really wasn't until I lost him several

00:16:58.040 years ago that I realized, oh, you know what? He isn't the superhero that I made him out to be.

00:17:04.060 And I thought I couldn't take him down off that. But when I took him down off the pedestal and I

00:17:07.840 said, man, I'm like, I've, I've, when I look in the mirror, it's like, I'm looking at my dad,

00:17:13.280 my personality, my beard, the way I look, the way I speak. And I'm like, oh, I'm not perfect.

00:17:19.180 Got it. Neither was he, but I expected him to be. And that was my fault to place that on him.

00:17:25.740 Heard. I mean, I hear you. There's that.

00:17:28.040 You know, message and messenger. And I had a similar experience after my father passed away

00:17:33.080 where I immediately saw at the wake when people spoke that the message he had given me that I

00:17:39.620 had taken for Bible. Oh, that's who he is. He's a hundred percent. He's he, I have him on that same

00:17:44.600 pedestal. But I was like, oh, he actually wasn't living that out. And the first reaction is F you,

00:17:52.380 right? Yes. But you know, it's like meeting your heroes for, you know, and you go and you meet him,

00:17:56.840 you're like, oh, geez, I wish I wouldn't have met him. They were way low under the bar. You know what

00:18:01.320 I mean? But that's our own projection. That's on us, as you just said. And I was able to very quickly

00:18:07.040 go, oh, okay. That doesn't mean my dad meant and was hoping for me to live up to those values even

00:18:15.000 more so than he could. He still wanted to teach that message. And I was like, well, all right,

00:18:19.460 bravo on him. He didn't live up to a lot of them. He didn't, he didn't walk the,

00:18:23.360 he didn't walk the talk and a lot of things that he, that he taught me. Well, most of the stuff he

00:18:27.420 did, but a lot of stuff I saw gaps and I was what, but I came, you know, pretty quickly after that was

00:18:32.460 like, all right, not only do I forgive him, even as it's almost arrogant to say, I forgive him.

00:18:37.760 Actually, I need to get a more realistic look of who he actually is. And as you said, it becomes a

00:18:42.680 mirror. Well, actually a more realistic look of who the hell I am. Right. Yeah. I began to understand,

00:18:47.560 you know, the first time I ever smoked pot was with my dad. He, he is the one who,

00:18:51.000 who lit it up and gave it to me. And I, and I, I remember thinking about that, like,

00:18:54.880 what the hell's wrong with them? Like, what the hell's wrong with this guy? And now I look at it

00:18:59.240 and think, Oh, he just didn't want me to run around on the streets with whoever smoking pot on the

00:19:03.040 streets. Like, he's like, Hey, if you're going to do this, let's do it here in a controlled

00:19:06.040 environment. That's going to sound really foreign to somebody who's never experienced anything like

00:19:10.120 that. But I look at that experience so much differently. Uh, and that was an expression as weird as I

00:19:15.720 know. It sounds an expression of love. It was an expression of love and it has its own logic,

00:19:21.680 you know? And, and it's, is it something that you put out there in the child rearing, uh,

00:19:27.380 constitution for how all parents should do? Not necessarily, but in that for your father and for

00:19:33.680 you at that time, that made sense for him being a good father and risk reward. You could say, Hey,

00:19:39.300 thanks dad. I'm really interested in your, uh, your, your concepts of rite of passages. You talked

00:19:46.080 about a couple of experiences in your life, uh, one with your father at the bar. Uh, and then you

00:19:51.480 talked about having your first child. I think that's very important. And it's something that is

00:19:56.660 increasingly less common in society is the initiation and rites of passages of our boys.

00:20:02.280 Yeah. It's, uh, it's something that's on my mind often. Also with the fact that my children have

00:20:10.200 been born into a more fluent situation than I was born into. Um, I, one of the things that's on my

00:20:16.700 mind a lot is like, do they have enough resistance or they do they have enough? Am I putting them in a

00:20:23.120 position to have to overcome enough thing? Are they getting, are they in a position to get, they need

00:20:28.240 to get, you know, draw a little blood, get some bruises. It's like, I try to look at it. Like

00:20:32.620 it's like, how high of a limb do you let your children climb? Because children aren't afraid

00:20:39.240 of heights until they fall. How high of a limb do you let them climb before you go, Hey bud,

00:20:43.920 come on down over here. Uh, check this out. You know, we call our, we call our kids in off the,

00:20:51.160 off of limbs too low too often. I think it's like, no, they'll fall from there. There's St.

00:20:56.360 Augustine grass blow. It's going to hurt. They're going to bruise, but I don't think

00:21:00.060 we're going to have to go to the emergency room. Let them climb. Don't, you know, cause

00:21:03.720 you get them that first time. Remember they're not afraid of heights, but if they're on that

00:21:06.840 limb, you go, no, no, no, get down from there. Get down there. I know what you fall. All

00:21:09.560 of a sudden, man, you've just created a threshold for them where they find fear in life sooner

00:21:15.160 than maybe they should. And won't have courage to do things or test themselves out. So what

00:21:20.980 are those limbs? That seems to be an art. I think of parenting of what limbs do you, how

00:21:24.940 high do you let them go and how far out on limb do you let them go before you say, and

00:21:28.660 then when they're on that one, that's too high that you're like, Oh geez, no man, that's

00:21:31.900 a cement fall and it's 40 feet. This is what ended badly. You don't go get down from there.

00:21:36.120 You got to be kind of cool. You know, like, Hey, come here a minute. Cause you don't want

00:21:39.660 to stop the confidence, right? Check this out. No, really? It's really cool. Get them down

00:21:43.700 on the ground and be like, all right. I didn't want to let them know they should have been

00:21:46.920 scared, but I want them to be safe. Um, I think about it all the time. And I mean, do we

00:21:52.640 have America doesn't have rituals of rites of passage? We have, what do we have? And

00:21:59.060 I mean, you know, you still have, sometimes you get church on Sunday, you still have a

00:22:05.000 meals, sit down meals. Um, but for the most part, you know, it's, it's what it's Monday

00:22:11.180 night football. It's sports. NYPD blue back when that was a hit show that everyone watches.

00:22:17.180 I don't know that those are rich enough rituals for, for us to have, for our children to see

00:22:27.640 that understand initiations and rites of passage. You don't have initiations on the internet.

00:22:32.860 All you got to do is say you're an expert and you can quote unquote be one.

00:22:37.600 No, what do you mean? And you know, so I had a friend wanted me to marry him and I said,

00:22:42.080 I'm not a priest. They go, yeah, you can, you can be ordained in nine minutes online.

00:22:45.840 I was like, I don't think that, I'm not going to say that qualifies. Hang on a second.

00:22:51.000 Like, no, you can. I was like, well, just because they say I can, doesn't mean I really

00:22:53.900 am. And my, for my constitution, I mean, you can just up and say, you're telling the facts

00:22:59.400 for whoever you are. Anyone can be an expert if they just say they are. There's no rite

00:23:03.260 of passage there. There's no understanding that no, you have to work to earn something.

00:23:08.100 And you know, you, you, you, it's like that old quote brain surgeon. You know what I mean?

00:23:12.580 You know, I stayed in Holiday Inn Express last night. Well, no, you're not the guy I want,

00:23:16.420 man. I want to really train working on my brain. You know what I mean? If that, if it comes to that.

00:23:23.880 Yeah. I fear that. I, what's your take on it? I fear we don't have enough of it.

00:23:28.800 And that it may not be the healthiest thing for our kids to be prepared to go negotiate life.

00:23:34.660 I think you're exactly right. You know, you were talking about sports or getting lost in

00:23:38.960 entertainment. And what we tend to do is live vicariously through other people, right? I want

00:23:43.580 to be on that team. I want to even hear it when people talk about their teams. Hey, we won.

00:23:48.440 You didn't do anything. You didn't contribute. Oh, it was the 12th man. No, you didn't contribute at

00:23:54.020 all. You, you enjoyed it and there's nothing wrong with that, but you didn't do anything about it.

00:23:58.560 What are you doing with your own life? Or what I also see is guys who are, I have friends. I've been,

00:24:03.960 I've been out of high school for 21, almost 22 years. I have friends that still talk about that

00:24:11.420 one football game where we did that one thing and it, you know, didn't pan out the way we wanted

00:24:16.240 to, or it went right. And it's like, man, that was two decades ago, bro. What are you, what are you

00:24:20.720 doing now? Turn the page, turn the page. Yeah. I mean, it's also a little of that Tom Cruise days of

00:24:27.160 thunder. You know, you, you're a good driver. I've never driven before. What do you mean? Never

00:24:31.640 driven before. How are you going to drive? Well, watch it on TV. Right. Well, hang on a second,

00:24:37.220 you know? Um, yeah, we're, I come from a place in East Texas where, you know, a place where that,

00:24:47.380 there are still people that I was at school with that are still like your friends living off that

00:24:51.940 state championship or living off of that game where they won district or that run. And I'm all for

00:25:00.300 that, but yeah, you gotta, you gotta, I think you gotta turn the page. I mean, and even let's

00:25:07.180 heighten other accomplishments. Let's go further than that. Graduated high school. Bravo. Yes. Let's

00:25:13.880 all have our celebration, but Hey, that don't, what's that mean? GED now that's not, don't let

00:25:21.340 this be the greatest thing. Okay. You graduated college. Bravo, but stay chomping at the bit.

00:25:26.960 That's not what's a college education gets you now. Not what it used to. Um, two, you, you,

00:25:33.120 you went, you went an Oscar. Great. So, okay. But so what that you didn't, there's not a taught

00:25:38.180 our moment. And we're kind of sort of on autopilot go to like things where like we get overly pleased

00:25:44.780 with ourselves. Right. And we find ourselves living off of that. And then if we, when we don't,

00:25:49.880 when we don't have that next victory or we don't get to that next stage of accomplishment,

00:25:54.880 something, I feel it too. Start to feel insignificant. Like, ah, I need to accomplish

00:25:59.220 something else. Well, or that accomplishment that we've been living off gets so far in the

00:26:06.020 damn rear view mirror that we're the same conversation every night at the bar. And our 0.93

00:26:11.400 friends are like, dude, are you still telling the same damn story? You know what I mean? It's like, 0.98

00:26:15.880 come on, let's evolve here.

00:26:17.240 One thing I think, uh, society has done in general is also made us complacent and satisfied with our

00:26:26.500 past performance. So, Hey, you want an Oscar? Look at you, look how great you are. And everybody's

00:26:31.160 going to pat you on the back and everybody's going to stroke your ego and tell you how wonderful you

00:26:35.400 are. Or they'll look at me and say, Oh yeah, but you know, look at your podcast, look how great it is.

00:26:39.760 And we're supposed to be satisfied for me. I'm like, you know, yeah, all that stuff is true. And all that

00:26:45.240 stuff is great. And I'm so grateful that I've had those opportunities and been able to have some

00:26:48.860 successes as I'm sure you are, but I'm not satisfied with the lesser version of myself.

00:26:55.620 There's still more to be uncovered and still more to be developed.

00:27:00.000 Bingo. Now why my hunch is that that logic right there, everybody can purchase that if they look in

00:27:10.000 the mirror and ask themselves, I mean, I always say like, who better to investigate than ourselves,

00:27:16.200 who better to chase than our transcendent and better selves? Uh, who, you know, no. And I think

00:27:24.020 this is, this is part of it. We were such a results oriented people. And you took, you were

00:27:29.100 talking about in this con, this exact conversation right here. Ah, you achieve that. Ah, live on that.

00:27:34.820 You did it. Ta-da. I mean, geez, retire, man. Hang on a minute. That's because we think we

00:27:41.020 landed at a place and we've been told, here's your blue ribbon. Here's your gold medal. That's

00:27:45.320 more than most people have done. Hey man, sit back. We put these little man-made roofs over our

00:27:51.640 head about like, well, that's, that's as good as it can get. Right. I mean, I'm going to live off of

00:27:56.920 that. No, I tell this, I, I, I'm a believer in Icarus, the Icarus story of Icarus in reverse.

00:28:04.460 You know, father takes his son. They fly too close to the sun. Son don't go too close to the sun. Son

00:28:08.940 claps. He, the boy flies too close to the sun. The sun melts the wax on his wings and he falls to the

00:28:14.280 ocean. I think that what we suffer from as a society is the opposite of that. We think it's getting too hot

00:28:22.060 when it ain't even 50 degrees yet. Right. You know, it's like, we think we're getting too close

00:28:27.300 and things could be working out. We, we, we, we choke at the proverbial goal line instead of like

00:28:32.180 pulling a Bo Jackson and not only running over the goal line, go through the end zone and up the

00:28:35.920 tunnel, man. You know, the sniper doesn't aim at the target. He aims on the other side of it.

00:28:40.820 So keep aiming on the other side and knowing, knowing that you never get there. That's the game.

00:28:46.280 We never get to, it's all, these are, the summits are real that we peak.

00:28:51.120 But there are false summits in the thought that that's the summit. On the other, once you reach

00:28:57.380 that summit, there's a million more summits. And you can't see those until you get to that

00:29:02.240 first false summit. You're not even going to be able to see it. Uh-uh. And to think that, you know,

00:29:07.000 we're sometimes tapping to the 11th percent of our brain capacity. We get nervous about what,

00:29:14.180 how ambitious we can be way too early in the game. I mean, we're on the, we're on, we're on the,

00:29:19.140 we're on our own 15 yard line doing touchdown dances. We're like, man, you get this game.

00:29:25.900 You got a lot more yards to go. Don't hold yourself back here, man.

00:29:30.360 Yeah. I think, I think we've done a wonderful job at making everything so comfortable. You and me

00:29:36.580 were talking about AC right before we hit record on the thing and we've got AC and we've got this

00:29:41.260 technology and you know, I need some food. I don't need to go hunt for it. I just go down to the

00:29:44.900 convenience store and just pick up some Snickers or whatever I want. And so we have no relative

00:29:51.880 understanding of hardship. The AC goes out as people's worst day or the 16 year old kid

00:29:57.440 messes up your, your, your order at McDonald's and you flip out at a kid. And that's your,

00:30:03.580 that's the worst part of your day. I mean, even in the wake of COVID it does, but even in the wake of

00:30:09.260 people like, Oh, you know, like I can't, I can't go out. It's like, well, first you can go out,

00:30:13.720 but let's say you adhere to that. That's actually not really that bad in the grand scheme of things.

00:30:18.520 I mean, relativity. All right. And we don't get relatives quick enough. I had people during COVID

00:30:26.560 going, you know, months ago going, Oh, we had to go out to Clark's. I mean, we did, we need,

00:30:31.760 I said, we had to, we had to go out to the restaurant. I was like, no, hang on. You didn't

00:30:35.600 have to, you chose to. And I'm not, that was your own choice, but don't act like that was a need

00:30:41.000 for your survival. You wanted to, you desired to, and you did. That's very different than your

00:30:47.260 need for fricking survival to go to your favorite five-star restaurant. Uh, six months ago in the

00:30:53.500 middle of COVID, that was your choice. You wanted to, you got cabin fever, you got a little uncomfortable,

00:30:58.160 your food that you're eating out of your fridge started to taste the same a little after a while.

00:31:01.180 You didn't need to go to Clark's school. You wanted to, that's a different thing. Um, we also

00:31:08.400 don't, you know, we don't know where, where it comes from. We don't, we're not a hunter and

00:31:15.860 gatherer society as much anymore. We don't have to, it is convenient. It's right there. It's right

00:31:21.120 here to Amazon click touch of a finger, right? It was on the whole world. Bring it to me like

00:31:26.760 that convenience and convenience is great, but it's a, it's, we, we, I think we have to notice.

00:31:34.100 Look, what did you remember? What do I remember? The lessons I remember in my life are things that

00:31:37.460 I had to experience or earn them. Definitely. The travels that we take and I stay in the,

00:31:43.660 some of the finest places in the world. What are the, what are the trials that I remember the most?

00:31:48.180 What are the ones that my 12, 11 and eight year old kids remember the most?

00:31:51.240 They remember that when we had to hike 13 miles a day through Patagonia and the snowstorm came

00:31:59.020 through, there's the story. That's the ones they remember. Yes. Of course. They remember when we

00:32:03.000 got lost in Yellowstone and had to work our way out and figured out that's where they're like,

00:32:07.980 their eyes light up. They don't remember the silk sheets of the Four Seasons where we stayed at the

00:32:13.360 resort. They had a good time. I'm not against the Four Seasons, but I'm saying the ones they remember,

00:32:18.180 the stories that are told, the ones that light their, light them up when they still remember

00:32:22.340 and talk about them. It's those that were, had a little bit of resistance to them. You had to

00:32:26.680 figure something out. You had to go chop your wood for your fire. Um, and I'll say this, those trips

00:32:33.900 make me, and I think all of us appreciate the silk sheets of the Four Seasons a lot more when we go.

00:32:40.820 They feel a lot smoother, don't they? Amazon, deliver that. Thank you.

00:32:44.040 All right, man. I got to hit the pause button very, very quickly. And then we'll get back to it.

00:32:50.200 Five years ago, uh, I decided that I wanted to create a brotherhood of men who could all learn

00:32:55.120 and glean information from and hold each other accountable. And now five years later with almost

00:32:59.940 1000 men from all over the planet, we have done exactly that in the iron council. This is the premier

00:33:06.580 brotherhood and it's all designed from our monthly topics to our challenges, to our app,

00:33:11.800 and our conversations, to give you insights and tools and resources, everything you need to live

00:33:17.380 your best life as a man. And as an exclusive men's brotherhood, it makes it possible for us to have

00:33:25.420 the real conversations and the real accountability that is hard, if not impossible to find anywhere

00:33:32.240 else. So if you're ready to take it up a notch or 10 notches in your life, you want to band with

00:33:37.360 exclusively other men who can help you do that. Then join us inside of our brotherhood,

00:33:42.740 the iron council. You can do that at order of man.com slash iron council. Again, that's order

00:33:48.680 of man.com slash iron council. Hopefully we'll see you inside until then let's get back to the

00:33:54.320 conversation with Matthew. Well, I think you bring up a good point in that we need to fabricate may not

00:34:01.860 be the right word, but we do need to fabricate or manufacture or create these hardships and these

00:34:08.200 experiences. Not only so we'll appreciate the good stuff, but remember that we actually have it

00:34:13.540 pretty good. That life is pretty good. You want food? You got it. You want a roof over your head?

00:34:18.040 You got it. You want to get a little warmer, a little cooler? You got it. Easy. All with the touch

00:34:21.480 of a button. Now let's remember, and we're recording this on the back of Memorial Day.

00:34:26.220 Uh, let's remember that there are hundreds of thousands of people who paid the ultimate sacrifice,

00:34:32.920 who, who went through hardships, you know, storming the beaches of Normandy hardships.

00:34:37.700 You and I can't even fathom so that we could have this conversation or press that button or get that

00:34:43.600 food at the grocery store. Yep. And so I could say before we got online, oh, that AC, you can hear it in

00:34:51.400 the background, but if I turn it off, I'm going to get a little shiny and start sweating later in the

00:34:54.760 conversation. Well, great. Yeah. Whoa. Big risk there, McConaughey. Yeah, right. Right. But I mean,

00:35:01.440 you got, it's, it's, it's, look, America, let's talk about it. America needs, needs, needs to go to

00:35:07.400 rehab. We got on it. We don't give a value to sacrifice because we don't have to. And people go,

00:35:16.840 why would you want to, you want to make it hard for yourself when it can be so easy? Well, that's a

00:35:22.240 good question. I'm not, I'm not talking about making things, making everything harder, but

00:35:27.440 the cocktail at the end of the day tastes better after I put in the damn good days of work. 0.86

00:35:35.180 The Saturday out on the lake with the kids, I'm having a better time if I, if I did the best I 0.97

00:35:41.060 could in my work week. If I, if I, if I went and I, and I grinded, um, it just, you don't, you

00:35:49.360 know, we don't respect what we have unless we, unless we remember that we got to, we

00:35:54.340 got to work. We got to, we got to work for certain things. America needs a civics class

00:35:57.940 again. You know what I mean? We could really use a civics class. I mean, anyone under 60, 0.99

00:36:02.820 I was writing this down last night. It seems like everyone under 60 years old could use a

00:36:06.160 civics course in America. We have no sense of how young we are, of the sacrifices that have

00:36:12.260 been made that were 200 and what, 60 something years from 1776, however many years that is, how

00:36:16.920 young of a country we are, we're still puppies. Um, how short of a time we've been here in

00:36:22.740 the lineage of the dynasties of worlds and continents and countries and dominations through

00:36:27.340 history. We have no concept of it. Um, and you know, my mom's 90, she's with us. She's

00:36:34.940 from that generation where she's like, Hey, what are you, you, you, you better appreciate

00:36:40.420 that you're getting a hot breakfast. She tells my kids, I'm walking in here without a smile

00:36:45.700 on your face in the morning for breakfast. You don't want to guarantee you this food

00:36:49.120 right here, but my mom, you know, no one guarantees you that damn someone's going to 0.99

00:36:52.140 rise this morning. You got another day. So that's one, you better wake up and check that 0.98

00:36:55.960 off your list. And my kids are like, Whoa, uh, okay, mama. And I just tell them, I'm like,

00:37:01.480 that's right. How do you, so besides having your mother there, cause that, that's a, that's

00:37:07.200 a valuable asset in that, in that, uh, in that space, how do you, as a man of means

00:37:12.600 and of affluence and, and, and notoriety and fame, make sure that you're still instilling

00:37:20.140 that in your children. When I would say, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but

00:37:25.520 the opportunities may be a little bit more abundant to you than the average individual

00:37:30.180 who doesn't have that same opportunity. So I'm really curious what you do to create that

00:37:35.300 for your kids. I try and I hope I'm doing, I think I'm doing as good as well as I can

00:37:39.660 at it. I'm not completely convinced I'm pulling it off as well as I can be, but that's, I'm

00:37:44.840 trying. Um, son goes to school. This happened a couple of years ago. Kid at school. Oh, I

00:37:54.040 bet you live in a big house. Cause your dad's rich and famous. Son's kind of like, I said,

00:37:59.480 how do you feel? He goes, well, I got, I got kind of shy. And I was like, well, yeah, we,

00:38:02.980 we, we, we, we do live in a nice house. And he goes, but I didn't know what to say

00:38:06.840 after that. I said, okay, number one, someone ever says to you, oh, I bet you got

00:38:15.100 this because you don't ever, don't ever lower your head. You look them right in the

00:38:19.420 eye. Now, why is your dad rich and famous? Because of the work he did, because I worked

00:38:28.440 my tail off at my craft to create something, to supply something that was in enough demand

00:38:34.720 that it, it paid, it paid for, it gave us the means to have this house. I studied, I

00:38:41.480 worked, delayed gratification. I, this happened when I won the, uh, Oscar and got the trophy

00:38:47.980 for a Dallas Buyers Club. My kids go, what's the trophy? And it went off, you know, as fathers,

00:38:53.360 sometimes our kids will ask a question and we know right then I've got an opportunity for

00:38:57.280 an awesome answer. Definitely. Definitely. And I went, do you remember a year ago when

00:39:02.780 we were working in New Orleans and dad was leaving, you get up in the morning at 7am,

00:39:06.280 dad was already gone and he'd come home and you said he looked like a giraffe because his

00:39:10.840 neck was so skinny. And they're like, Hey, I remember that. I go, the work I was doing

00:39:14.680 every day when I was gone for that month, a year later, yesterday, my peers gave me a trophy

00:39:21.500 for it and said, we deemed that the most excellent work. And they, they clicked. They got the

00:39:26.620 first concept that, Oh, wait a minute. You can work today and get rewarded tomorrow.

00:39:33.960 That it's not like, cause they're, you know, children and most of us get to feel like it's

00:39:38.000 immediate gratification only. I want mine now. And I want what I can get now and what I'm doing.

00:39:43.700 I need to result now. We got to take longer investments in ourself. Again, certain sacrifices

00:39:50.260 will reap larger rewards down the line. And that's hence what I mean by the title of green

00:39:55.760 lights. That's those green lights. We're talking about the ones, not the battery powered ones,

00:39:59.540 talking about the solar powered ones, man. The ones that are, that are going to keep shining

00:40:03.260 for us further down the line and hopefully shine after we're out of this life.

00:40:08.080 You know, um, delayed gratification, I think is something we don't give enough credit to.

00:40:12.320 Adults too. Me as an adult, I don't, I don't think we do. I don't think we,

00:40:16.420 when I say American needs rehab, I think we, we don't give enough value to a delayed gratification.

00:40:21.600 I think we're, we're, we're, I want it now. I want to win on the scoreboard now.

00:40:26.180 And you can tally up the, you know, the, the, the dead bodies later, as long as I win immediately.

00:40:32.020 Yeah. Is this, are our own is what I'm saying.

00:40:36.080 That's true. That's a good point too. A lot of, uh, redefining yourself, a lot of sacrifice,

00:40:41.660 a lot of letting things go in order to make things work for some distant future that may or may not

00:40:46.980 present itself. Yeah. But believe in it, you know, believing in it, trusting in it, you know,

00:40:54.100 it's always a little unknown, but we don't, we don't like to project or believe that we can

00:40:58.260 invest now to get it. We don't trust that reward will actually come later, you know, but most of

00:41:04.440 the time it does. If we do what we need to do on a daily basis to be as good of a man as we can be,

00:41:08.840 as good of a woman as good of a parent, as good of a father, as good at our work, those rewards

00:41:13.820 will come and in larger sizes and in with wider and deeper roots than if we take the immediate

00:41:20.540 satisfaction as often as we do. When you talk about, uh, America needing rehab, is this where

00:41:26.940 a lot of your political aspirations and desires come from? Is it this, is it something else? Is it a

00:41:32.320 culmination of multiple ideas? Tell me where you are with that. It's, it's, it's a culmination.

00:41:36.580 So like, so when I, I mean, politics is one embassy in one category where you can, someone

00:41:42.200 can have influence about in service of where the country's going. Um, so when I say we're

00:41:49.040 in need of, of, of, of rehab, we've got to, we gotta, I think America can use, we can, as

00:41:55.740 Americans, we can use some more courage individually. I don't know what the policies are that make

00:42:01.580 a big collective change. I do believe that if each one of us, as we're talking here, go look

00:42:05.420 in the mirror and go, I'm calling you out and I'm talking to me in the mirror, it's on you. It's

00:42:12.260 on me. That, that's how you make a collective change. But we have to start, we have to believe

00:42:16.880 we got to flick our own switch. Meaning so many times we get our, our, our, the leader we want in

00:42:22.020 position, you know, and, and, and trying to get them in the position, they've, we're off, we're,

00:42:27.740 we're out of our chair. We're on the edge of the porch. We're rooting. We're, we're soldiering.

00:42:31.800 And as soon as they get in position of power, we go, oh, okay. Now I'm going to sit back down.

00:42:36.580 No, just the opposite. Now it's time to get off the porch. Now it's time to get after it. Now let's

00:42:42.240 go to work. We did, we, our, our, our knee jerk reaction is not to do that. Um, and it's going to

00:42:50.060 come, you know, if we keep it up, it'll come at our own, our own demise. Um, and I, I mean,

00:42:56.240 when I say rehab, I mean, I'm, uh, 19 to 21, those great civilized countries didn't get

00:43:04.240 taken over from without. Hmm. They imploded from within. And I fear, you know, the versions

00:43:11.780 of, of, of civil war. Um, I don't, I don't think our, our war, yeah, we got concerns about

00:43:17.760 China and we should be, and we got concerns about Iran and places like that, but we need

00:43:21.740 to really start looking right at our feet and see, do we really, you know, we talk about

00:43:26.460 land America, the land of opportunity and the land. Yes. But Hey, that's even lawn yacht

00:43:32.540 luxurious talk right now. I think what question we need to ask ourselves right now is, Hey,

00:43:37.060 do we really believe in that? And we really want to be a United States of America because

00:43:43.100 that's in question right now. And it's been exposed in this last year and a half. It's

00:43:50.200 always been there, but it's really been exposed in, into a greater scale in this last year

00:43:55.020 and a half where everything got politicized in some way or another. So much so that I'm

00:43:59.200 like, wait a minute, where'd the common sense go on? How did that become a partisan issue?

00:44:03.920 Let's just talk to common sense of the situation. We cannot, we're a country who can't decide

00:44:07.960 and agree on a fact. We don't know what's actual. We can't agree on what is, and then that

00:44:13.360 does start there. Um, you know, so we're, we're a little bit, uh, delusionary right now. And, uh,

00:44:20.860 we, uh, we, when we're on our own, each of us as individuals, we too often, me included,

00:44:27.360 bow down to that little whisper of our cowardice sides rather than stand up to the courage.

00:44:32.920 I agree. I definitely agree with that. How, how has your life changed, uh, since you announced

00:44:40.660 that you had political aspirations because I imagine before, you know, you had to deal with

00:44:46.140 critics and people tell you, you know, you're a bad actor. That was a bad role. That was a bad

00:44:49.800 movie, yada, yada, yada. This I think is going to be on an entirely different level. I could be wrong,

00:44:55.540 but I imagine from the outside looking in, that's what it's going to be.

00:44:58.700 Well, all I've done is said that I was considering given honor.

00:45:01.360 Right. Sure. Right. Um, which I have been and am, um, how's it changed? Um, different people,

00:45:10.660 reached out more people kind of for the first time. Got to get a security guard, man.

00:45:20.500 Hmm. Damn it. Strangers are showing up at the house in a fever pitch about this has got to 1.00

00:45:25.620 really. Yeah. For the first time. Yeah. That's interesting. I mean, before, you know,

00:45:33.000 you'd have a certain fan show late night kids, high schoolers on the weekend, get drunk. Let's go

00:45:37.920 swing by McConaughey's house. I have fun. You know what I mean? Yeah. But now people are coming

00:45:42.920 with a, with a, with an extreme agenda and going, you're, you've got to do that. This is the guy.

00:45:47.240 And so, or coming and going, you know, I, or coming and being mad. I can, you shouldn't have

00:45:54.920 said that. What do you, why'd you say that? I disagree about, you know, and I'm not in quote unquote

00:46:00.860 politics right now in my life. I'm telling what I'm speaking my own truth and saying, Hey, I'll deal

00:46:06.840 with the, deal with the consequences, but there's, there's more eyes on me and my family in different

00:46:12.520 ways. The eyes are more intense on me and my family in different ways than, than, than, than there were

00:46:17.980 before. Yeah. I imagine that's the case, but you know, that, that also is where that courage comes

00:46:23.620 into play, which you were just talking about earlier is, Hey, you see a problem, you step up and fix it.

00:46:28.180 And I think just based on the story that I read in your life, that's what your parents instilled

00:46:32.720 in you is, Hey, we're going to, we're going to deal with this head on. In fact, I love the story

00:46:37.080 and I'm not going to ruin the story. You guys go listen to the book or read it, but the story of

00:46:41.580 your, uh, initiation, I'll call it into manhood by your father, where you actually had to step up

00:46:47.580 and address and deal with an issue head on. And that's where you became, uh, I think I would say

00:46:52.400 an equal, is that what you would consider it? All of a sudden from that day forward,

00:46:58.180 let's go get a beer for the first time. He was still my dad, but now I was like, come on,

00:47:03.680 buddy, let's go get a beer, proverbial beer. Let's go hang out and have, and shoot the shit 1.00

00:47:07.940 as buddies for the first time. Instead of no, I'm your father. You're my son. I was in on the 1.00

00:47:13.600 stories for the first time. Now I was able to go with him and his friends and experience the stories

00:47:17.880 and be in on to telling of the stories the next day. Whereas before that time, I was always the one

00:47:23.100 who would hear the story about last night, the next day, instead of being there to witness it

00:47:28.320 and be a part of it. What's your take now that you're a father yourself, looking back into how

00:47:34.620 your father fathered you. And you, you said something interesting. You said, you know,

00:47:39.100 I'm your father versus I'm your, your peer or your friend. How do you describe the relationship

00:47:45.100 that you have with your kids? Cause I look at and think I'm never stepping off the, the, the mantle

00:47:51.220 of fatherhood to a lower tier of friend. And people get after me when I say that we can be

00:47:57.080 friendly, but I'm not my son or my daughter's friend. But what I heard you say in your story,

00:48:02.180 I was like, that kind of, that's an interesting perspective. And it made me reflect on that a

00:48:06.200 little bit, but it was a time. And as you know, you got four kids, minor 12, 11, and eight. I'm just

00:48:11.560 getting to that stage where up until now, it's been like, look, there's a one rule across the

00:48:15.720 board for all three of you kids, follow them. Everyone gets the same consequences for following

00:48:19.460 them, same consequences for not following them. Now they're, I'm seeing how they're different

00:48:25.120 individuals. They got different characteristics. I told me the other day, I will treat you all fairly,

00:48:30.180 but I'm not going to treat you all the same. I got a, I got a, I got an elder son who

00:48:35.420 is so damn responsible. I, he's self, he's, he self-motivates, self-regulates everything,

00:48:42.600 man. He's the one that I don't need to be getting on him. Like I get on my youngest son

00:48:47.800 for not doing something because my youngest son will look at the chore and go,

00:48:52.120 I'm not going to do it and see if I can do that. My eldest son never, if he messes up,

00:48:58.300 he didn't mean to. So he may need an arm around the shoulder going, Hey buddy, we forgot that one.

00:49:03.920 It's okay. Youngest one doesn't do the same thing. He's going to get a consequence because

00:49:08.380 I know he was intentional about it. He ain't time for me to be buddy with you, buddy. You're trying

00:49:12.500 to see what you can get away with and pull, pull off on pop and not, not play by the team rules of

00:49:16.580 the household. Different. You know what I mean? Daughter, different. Youngest son craves the

00:49:24.760 attention of, Hey, Hey, what are you doing? Daughter. If I raise my voice even to that level,

00:49:30.680 she's like, Oh, so Nick got to do it differently. You know what I mean? You find different ways to

00:49:35.320 customize when to be a buddy or when to actually have tried this recently when you give it, give

00:49:40.720 a discipline or trying to recourse, correct them, doing it with an arm around it. Not as your buddy,

00:49:47.920 but as your loving father, letting you know that this is, we tell them all the time, you know,

00:49:52.760 there are times where I'm, we're not going to like you and what you did,

00:49:55.320 but we're always going to love you. That's not a question, but too many of us, too many parents.

00:50:04.020 And I, for my money, that's their goal. I want to be best friends with my kids. And I think it's a

00:50:10.700 major disservice to the children. And it also can become a bit of a cop out because as you know,

00:50:20.240 saying no and following through on rules in the house and following through on, on no's is a hell

00:50:26.700 of a lot harder than saying yes. It's a hell of a lot harder, man. Uh, it's easy. And sometime,

00:50:33.920 you know, late at night, you're like, Oh, just let him do it. I'm so tired. Just let, man,

00:50:38.320 it's hard to sit there and go, okay, I got to go handle this right way as a father. Dang it.

00:50:43.420 Right. It's going to be a slippery slope. It's going to be harder. I mean,

00:50:46.300 I'm doing them a disservice if I let this slide, you know, I think that's a one, one trap. A lot

00:50:53.520 of parents fall into, and I've, I've fallen into that. I'm sure you have as well is, you know,

00:50:57.060 we say, Hey, I'm, I'm letting my children do that because you know, it's, it's good for them or it's

00:51:03.260 okay. It's not that big a deal. But I think really more often than not, we allow them to get away with

00:51:08.480 some of the stuff we'd otherwise correct because we're trying to preserve ourselves, not necessarily

00:51:14.560 trying to serve them. Yeah. And it's understandable. I mean, hell, I mean, if you, if you, if you a

00:51:23.380 hundred percent follow through on every single thing, every day, you look up and find yourself

00:51:28.020 saying hi to your wife for the first time at 10 PM each night. Sometimes you got to go, Hey, this is

00:51:34.800 my time. Y'all deal with it. All right. You know what I mean? I said, clean up. We'll see tomorrow if

00:51:39.660 it's cleaned up. You know what I mean? But I'm telling y'all, you know what to do. Good night.

00:51:44.380 You know, I'm going to have some time with my wife, my friend. Um, but it's, it's, it's, it's tough

00:51:51.640 duty, man. It's, it's, it's, it. And then to be, as I said, how are you consistent, but at the same

00:51:57.220 time, treat everyone fairly, but treat them the same because they have different personalities and

00:52:02.480 wants. It's a constant art, I believe. And then it's about to be a whole new art because mine are about

00:52:07.720 to being teenagers. And that's a whole nother thing with hormones and questions. And I'm finding

00:52:12.440 my son asking questions and going through things in his head at 12 that I was going through at 15. 0.99

00:52:17.520 And I'm like, damn. Yeah. 15. I didn't even consider that. So I've got to get on the fast 0.99

00:52:24.700 track as well of what my expectations are and actually get rid of some expectations about where

00:52:29.120 I was or even update how my parents raised me. You know, we got to, I think our parents want us to go,

00:52:36.920 I want you to be a better version. Right. Then I, then I, then, then, then I was. And

00:52:41.980 I think we want that. I want that for my kids. I want them to be a better version,

00:52:44.980 a more true version and even more customized version of what I'm showing them to be and what

00:52:50.940 life's about and what we expect from each other and what we expect from ourselves and how we respect

00:52:55.300 ourselves and respect each other. Um, yeah, it's a, uh, it's a constant update, but say a nose a hell

00:53:01.520 lot harder. It takes up a hell lot more time to follow through on the nose, man.

00:53:05.080 That's, that's true. And you have to follow through because if you don't, then you're just

00:53:08.700 lying. And that obviously isn't going to serve anybody.

00:53:11.920 And they don't want that. I think that, you know, I learned this with our foundation.

00:53:17.740 We have a Camilla and I have an afterschool foundation in title one schools. It's about

00:53:21.300 nutrition goals, physical fitness goals. And then I came up with the idea about, Hey,

00:53:24.680 they need to do community service. And I was like, Ooh, they ain't gonna like that.

00:53:29.420 We've been giving them a free place after school. They got exercise equipment. They said,

00:53:33.500 go. I was like, I'm going to do it anyway. A hundred percent of them loved it. We're 30

00:53:39.700 a.m. every weekend, a hundred percent capacity on the buses to make, make things for the troops

00:53:44.440 to send off. And I was asking, I was like, why is a hundred percent of you, what you, a

00:53:50.000 lot of them say their favorite thing about the whole program is the community service

00:53:52.640 because it gave them ownership. It didn't meant that the, that the curriculum was not a,

00:53:58.420 it wasn't a one-way ticket. It wasn't a free ticket. They wanted to be put to task. They

00:54:02.020 wanted to be given a responsibility to give them ownership and identity. And it was, it's their,

00:54:07.800 so a lot of them, it's their favorite thing about the whole curriculum, but it's the work they got to

00:54:11.440 do that. We're telling them, no, this ain't a freebie. You got to give back. If you want to stay in

00:54:16.260 the, if you want to roll with this crew and they love it. So they wanted, they didn't want to be

00:54:20.760 given everything. They wanted to be put to task and it gave them identity and gave them ownership

00:54:25.780 and they stood taller and they did something and they accomplished something. And it was an exchange.

00:54:31.740 And I think people, people want that. And especially children want that more than we like to give them

00:54:36.380 credit for. Yeah. I think they want meaning. I think they want to be treated like adults too,

00:54:40.980 whether they are or aren't. I think they want to be treated with some level of respect and giving

00:54:45.400 them responsibility and consequences is a level of, Hey, you want to be, you want to act like

00:54:51.240 adult? You want to be an adult? I'll, I'll play that game with you. Let's do that a little bit.

00:54:54.800 And they, they thrive on it. We had, you know, yeah, you do this when you, you and your wife are

00:54:59.660 having a conversation and your kids, you shop and maybe they're in the kitchen and you are on the

00:55:04.520 couch. They're like supersonic hearing, man. I don't know how they hear some of this stuff,

00:55:08.280 but when they come and bring it up of something they overheard, not that they were being secretive

00:55:16.580 about, but that you allowed them to overhear. And they don't understand that that's one conversation,

00:55:22.920 one piece of the whole context of a decision you got to make. And they get locked into, well,

00:55:27.360 here's my opinion. Here's why I agree with mama, but not you, dad, whatever that is. You got to go,

00:55:33.460 hang on a second. You got it. You, you got to understand that you weren't privy to a whole lot

00:55:38.580 of other conversations that me and mom have been having for months about this and are going to

00:55:41.540 continue about. So you don't have enough information buddy to come in and be judge and jury on this

00:55:46.760 situation. Now, if you can listen to a conversation and sit back and go, okay, that's a piece of the

00:55:52.260 puzzle, but I understand there's a lot more going on. Then it's okay for you to listen to us. But if

00:55:56.500 you're going to lock in and get literal on your decision, just based off of what you heard in one

00:56:01.020 conversation, then you're not old enough to sit around and mature enough to sit around and over

00:56:04.160 here and mom and dad talk. So figure it out, either, you know, leave, leave the room and let

00:56:09.420 us have a private conversation or come in and have a listen and don't go to judgment and try to sell

00:56:14.560 your side when you don't have all the information. That that's, you're talking about it in the context

00:56:19.960 of parents and their children. But I think we could talk to people about that on a social media,

00:56:24.620 you know, people would jump in and say, Oh, well, you said earlier, you said one thing and people go

00:56:29.200 off the rails. You're like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. What about the 47 other things I said on the

00:56:33.560 same subject that you conveniently forgot to bring up or mentioned that are counter to what I just said

00:56:39.600 in that little five word snippet you clipped out? Everyone's an editor. And, and, and we've got a

00:56:48.440 means of communicating now that is broken down into a Twitter world, which 40 words or less, whatever it

00:56:53.580 is. It's, it's, it's, so you got it. It's a headline. You look at, you know, everyone's looking

00:56:57.820 for that headline. That is not necessarily that, that causes you to go, Ooh, there's a car crash

00:57:04.020 here. Ooh, there's a disease here. Ooh, there's a problem here. Oh, there's a fire here. Why? Cause

00:57:10.600 you get more clicks. And if you get more clicks, you get more dough moolah. So that's the deal.

00:57:17.040 The truth, forget that. Oh, you know what I mean? I mean, look at, look at, look at our,

00:57:22.060 our, our, our media now. They, in my opinion, they have us, they have American belief. They

00:57:28.440 have Americans believing they have us believing we're actually more disconnected than I believe

00:57:33.900 we are. And I think we're all drinking the Kool-Aid. Why are we listening to them? Well,

00:57:38.000 because they're at, they're having these dramatic, you know, pep rallies on the tree, right and left.

00:57:46.640 It's sexy. It's sexy, but it's a car wreck. Hell, the health, you want to talk about how we're

00:57:51.220 alike and how we can get along. That's boring. Show me the car. Why do we rubberneck? Why do

00:57:55.860 you get on the one-on-one and LA going North and slow down to five miles an hour, only 10 minutes

00:58:01.400 later to find out it's because of a wreck of the sound on the southbound side, because we love to

00:58:06.120 have a look at the problem. Is there going to be a fireman? I'm going to see a dead body.

00:58:09.220 Ooh, no, dude, just keep driving. Stay in your lane to 65, bro. It's just, and everybody says that

00:58:15.680 all these people keep going and yet we look the same as everybody else. Guilty, you know, but to

00:58:21.480 name that, to name it and claim it that we do it. Yeah, I think we're getting, I think we're all

00:58:26.440 getting a little bit hoodwinked right now and we're drinking the proverbial Kool-Aid to, to think that

00:58:32.320 we're as divided actually as we are. I think, I think, I think that most of us have a common

00:58:39.900 denominator of values in the middle, no matter what church we go to or what political aisle we're

00:58:43.800 voting on, that we're just having the shade pulled over our eyes to see that. But I believe we're in

00:58:48.480 the majority. Yeah. Yeah, definitely agree. Well, look, I got a hard stop. That doesn't sell tickets

00:58:53.040 though. You know, the other, the other stuff sells tickets. That's right. Look, I know you've got a

00:58:58.000 hard stop here in the next several minutes. I want to be very respectful of that. I do want to ask one

00:59:01.640 thing that was, I was very intrigued with as I was listening to your book, you said, and you actually

00:59:06.080 said it when we started this conversation, that you felt like a man and more masculine than you ever

00:59:12.700 had when you had your first child. Can you talk to me about that? Yeah. So one thing I only ever

00:59:18.160 knew I wanted to be in life was a dad, but then I have a child. All of a sudden I realized I was

00:59:26.820 immortal. Oh my God, just did it. Passed on a lineage, bloodline. Oh, all of a sudden I was

00:59:36.760 not living for the present. I was living for the future. Um, all of a sudden mortal things that I

00:59:44.840 looked around at that maybe I was slightly intimidated by or didn't have the courage to

00:59:48.800 embrace. Even my career had been like number one on my goal. That's what I want. That's my number one

00:59:56.060 goal to get my identity from. Well, then I have a child. No career went to number two, at least kind

01:00:02.040 of down to number three. And because that gave me less fear about anything to do with my career,

01:00:07.860 I got better at my career because it went to the three hole instead of the one. I didn't lose any

01:00:13.760 respect for it. I just lost a certain reverence that had me maybe more impressed with it than I

01:00:20.600 was involved with it. Well, boy, you have a child. You see, I think a man's head, heart and loins and

01:00:26.600 spirit are more aligned at that point. And he's courageous to see clearly enough to go forward

01:00:31.820 for those reasons. Oh, now I'm immortal. Okay, well, let's get it on. Let's, let's, let's take

01:00:37.300 the real risk. And I got a hell of a lot more courageous, um, with myself, with others, with

01:00:43.280 chances I would take, because now I was a courier. And like I said, now I was a mortal, mortal. Every

01:00:48.320 parent becomes immortal when they have children. Um, and hopefully, you know, those are children may have

01:00:54.520 children and pass it on. And it's, I was like, there's the greatest light I can leave. There's

01:01:00.620 my legacy. That's the greatest legacy I can have is my firstborn son. And then it's turned to our

01:01:06.740 children. That's the greatest legacy we can leave. You want to know somebody, go meet their kids,

01:01:12.640 hang out with them. You know what I mean? After we're gone, they're the ones that are passing our

01:01:17.560 stories on. They're the ones that are emanations and extensions of us. That's as awesome of a thing

01:01:22.680 that I can think of. They're living emanations. They're not a, they're not a book. They're not

01:01:27.140 movie. They're not a piece of art. They're not a podcast. They're like a living emanation

01:01:31.260 extension of us. And how did we shepherd them? How's this great, awesome opportunity. We get to

01:01:36.520 shepherd who they become to head out into life on their own. That is just talk about a buzz. That

01:01:41.700 just gets me off. Oh, no doubt. That's powerful stuff, man. Well, look, I appreciate you. I'm,

01:01:47.360 I'm so glad that I wasn't so stubborn to, uh, completely, uh, write off your book. I'm so

01:01:54.040 glad that I listened to it, that I, that I got a copy that enough people said, no, no, no, no. You

01:01:57.920 got to read it. You got to listen to it. And, uh, honored to be able to have this conversation. You

01:02:02.600 shared a ton of valuable insight and, uh, I'm honored that you could, uh, join us. Thank you very much,

01:02:07.660 man. I appreciate it. I quite enjoyed it, man. I look forward to the next time, man. And, uh,

01:02:10.940 thanks brother. Let's run it back soon. Yes, sir. All right, man. All right, gentlemen,

01:02:17.700 there you go. My conversation with the one and only Matthew McConaughey. I really,

01:02:21.560 really enjoyed that conversation. I knew that I would based on his book and based on what I know,

01:02:26.380 know, or knew about him, but I'm telling you, it felt like, you know, two old buddies catching up and,

01:02:32.060 and, and picking up where they left off. And he's a very insightful, obviously got a lot of value to add,

01:02:38.540 uh, for the men who are listening. And if you haven't picked up a copy of green lights,

01:02:43.400 I would recommend that you do. Now I'll, I'll admit, I didn't read the book. I listened to it

01:02:47.760 and without reading it, I would say that probably listening to it is better. That's my own personal

01:02:55.360 preference. Cause the way that he narrates the book is incredible. He does a phenomenal job explaining

01:03:00.880 his life and his scenarios and stories that are funny and heart wrenching and everything else.

01:03:06.900 And I, I think it'll give you some perspective into your life. So pick up a copy of green lights,

01:03:10.980 whether you want to read it or listen to it, uh, connect with us on the socials, Instagram,

01:03:15.260 Facebook, Twitter, let Matthew know that you heard it here on the podcast. That goes a long way.

01:03:19.840 Cause it lets our guests know that, uh, people are actually listening and that helps us secure

01:03:24.320 other great guests. So we can bring those men to you. Uh, let me know what you thought about the

01:03:28.620 show. As I started the conversation today, leave a rating review, share it, join the iron council.

01:03:35.040 These are all ways that you can support what we're doing here to reclaim and restore masculinity.

01:03:39.180 And I'm honored you're here. I'm honored that we're able to get men like Matthew and other

01:03:43.320 incredible men on the podcast. And, uh, I just urge you to continue to step up in your families,

01:03:49.140 your businesses, your communities, doing what, you know, you need to be doing and what people

01:03:53.840 need you to be doing. So let's keep fighting. Let's keep marching. Let's keep improving ourselves.

01:03:59.980 This is what the world needs. And it's a men like us who are going to change the world.

01:04:04.020 One man, one family, one business, one community at a time. All right, guys, I look forward to

01:04:10.260 being back tomorrow for our ask me anything and also for the Friday field notes. And then

01:04:15.640 of course, uh, continued interviews and conversations with absolutely incredible men,

01:04:21.320 but until then go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

01:04:26.260 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:04:30.640 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - June 15, 2021

MATTHEW MCCONAUGHEY ｜ Greenlights

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