Order of Man

00:00:00.000 All of us have heard from men who wonder if it's too late to start in life. Many of them believe

00:00:04.260 that they may have missed the one shot they had to make something of themselves, or they've wasted

00:00:09.200 too much of their lives. My guest today, founder of Not Dead Yet, Matthew Vincent, makes the case

00:00:13.760 that it's never too late to start as long as there's air in your lungs and blood pumping

00:00:18.020 through your heart. Today, we have an extremely fascinating discussion on so many different

00:00:22.640 topics, including several that we don't see eye to eye on. Specifically, we talk about the scarcity

00:00:27.740 versus abundant mindset, the value of hate and love, the danger in what he calls hedonic treadmill,

00:00:34.500 connecting with others as a powerful motive for overcoming destructive behavior, and the immense

00:00:40.120 liberty found in becoming completely aware of yourself. You're a man of action. You live life

00:00:46.200 to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down,

00:00:51.060 you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged,

00:00:57.120 resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become at the end

00:01:04.180 of the day. And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man. Gentlemen, what is going

00:01:09.980 on today? My name is Brian Michler. I'm your host and the founder of the Order Man podcast and movement.

00:01:14.920 Welcome here today and welcome back. If you're new, we're interviewing incredible men. Matt Vincent,

00:01:20.380 founder of Not Dead Yet, and two-time Highland Games champion is one of those men. We've also had guys

00:01:25.860 like Jocko Willink and Andy Frisilla and Tim Tebow and Tim Kennedy and David Goggins and Ben Shapiro and

00:01:33.380 Matthew McConaughey and Terry Crews and an incredible Dave Ramsey, John Deloney, and just an absolutely

00:01:39.800 incredible lineup of guys joining us, sharing their wisdom, sharing their insight, imparting that upon

00:01:45.440 us so that we can take this information and apply it in our own lives. We are not at a loss for

00:01:50.200 information. We're on a loss for maybe too much information, but how we apply that information

00:01:56.200 into our lives for maximum efficacy and productiveness in our lives. So glad that you're

00:02:03.020 here. Make sure you subscribe, leave a rating and review. If you've been listening for any amount of

00:02:06.720 time and got any value out of this, this is a great way to grow the movement. We don't do a bunch of ads

00:02:11.040 and we're not hawking products we don't believe in and not a whole lot of asks. But one thing I do ask

00:02:16.160 is if you would do your part, if you're listening on your way home or to and from work or while

00:02:21.320 mowing the lawn, just, or hunting, just, just leave us a rating review. Goes a long way. Appreciate that.

00:02:28.020 Outside of that, want to let you know that we've got our free course ready and available called 30

00:02:32.000 Days to Battle Ready. 30 Days to Battle Ready. It's a series of emails you'll receive over 30 days

00:02:36.860 that are going to help you get prepared for life and what you want to accomplish. You can check that out

00:02:41.700 at order of man.com slash battle ready. All right, guys, let me introduce you to my guest today. His

00:02:47.500 name is Matthew Vincent. As I said earlier, he's the founder of not dead yet apparel company and two

00:02:52.860 time Highland games champion. Again, his name is Matthew Vincent. Many of us have a preconceived notion

00:02:59.500 of how athletes show up off the field. You're going to hear why those preconceived notions aren't

00:03:05.620 always correct. As you're going to be listening to a man who is extremely thoughtful, introspective,

00:03:10.980 and I think contemplated more about life and his position and role in it than most other men.

00:03:18.200 He's traveled the world extensively and has been introduced to so many people and cultures

00:03:22.500 that it's really opened his mind to the possibility that he is right about so few things like many of

00:03:29.400 us and given him a perspective that most of us find hard to grasp. Enjoy this one, guys.

00:03:36.760 Matt, what's up, man? So great to see you. I know we've talked on the phone quite a bit,

00:03:39.960 but, or Instagram, I guess, but that's not real life. Neither is this, but it still is good to see

00:03:45.180 you. It's a hair closer, right? Like, I don't think we've quite covered the virtual ground of

00:03:50.380 how to hang out with people yet. We're like better than we were, but there's still something missed in

00:03:55.780 this format, right? Because like eye contact's not quite right because of the camera angle and

00:04:02.300 everything. Yes. I don't know if this is still considered like whatever the uncanny valley is

00:04:07.460 with the virtual thing, but we're not quite there yet.

00:04:12.720 It's weird. I don't know whether I'm supposed to look at you or supposed to look at the camera.

00:04:16.440 The audience wants me to look at the camera, but my eyes and heart tells me I should probably look

00:04:20.840 at you. So it's kind of confusing.

00:04:23.300 No, very strange. Yeah. My camera is like three inches above my computer screen. So I'm staring

00:04:27.100 at you.

00:04:28.220 Right. Yeah, man. Well, I'm glad we're connected. The first time I really got introduced to what

00:04:34.020 you were doing is I think I saw an Instagram ad for your clothing company, hate. And I liked the

00:04:39.280 shorts. I'm like, cool. I'll buy a couple of pairs. They're my favorite shorts still. And I remember

00:04:44.000 reaching out to Brandon Lilly, a mutual friend of ours. And I was like, Hey, what is even the name

00:04:48.180 of this company? He's like, I'll just sound it out. I'm like, H V I, I am like, I don't,

00:04:54.500 what does that mean? He's like, no, it's hate. I'm like, Oh God. All right. I'm tracking now.

00:04:59.680 That's the first time I'm introduced to you. Well, yeah, I'm glad it was a bit of a Rubik's

00:05:03.980 cube to solve there. It was challenging for me, but I'm a little slower than most people. So

00:05:08.880 it's not slower than most, man. I spelt it in a real fucking weird way. Like I'm aware I did this

00:05:13.760 at this point. Like that's part of the reason I wanted to change the name brand.

00:05:16.920 Yeah. Oh, is that right? It would be neat if my customers also could pronounce the name of my

00:05:21.780 company. Yeah. Well, not dead yet is a little bit easier to figure out for sure.

00:05:26.600 Bit on the head.

00:05:28.720 Tell me a little bit about that mantra or that slogan. Cause it's obviously more than

00:05:32.960 just a cool name as, as, as Wayne would say, it's more than just a clever name in Wayne's world.

00:05:39.020 If you guys, uh, everybody listening to this should, should know Wayne's world. So

00:05:43.300 you should know that reference. Perfect generation. I'm sure. Um, you know, it was hate brand for a

00:05:50.020 long time. Right. And that's kind of this own personal. I like how I got stuff done as an

00:05:55.320 athlete was this, like never accepting mediocrity for myself and never allowing average and just

00:06:01.160 always really wanting to be my best. And I referred to that as like, I have to hate myself enough to do

00:06:06.740 the work. Like I've got to be the one to push myself. I've got to be the one to hold myself

00:06:11.580 accountable. And like, if I want to get better, like I've got to be strong enough to look at

00:06:16.400 where I can do more. And so is it, is it hating yourself enough or is it loving yourself enough?

00:06:25.040 Like, I think it's a pretty fine line of how I want to describe the perspective at this point

00:06:29.480 in my life. Now at 40, I realized that that is my self-love is taking care of those things is

00:06:35.860 becoming the best version of myself. Right. At the time in the acute sense of just being an athlete

00:06:42.440 and this, whatever inner voice I'm dealing with at that point in my life, right. That is the one

00:06:47.340 that's like, fuck you, go train. Yeah. Get in there and lift. Like everybody else is working hard.

00:06:51.800 Why aren't you? And so do you think that, do you think that helped your performance or do you feel

00:06:57.380 like that hurt? And I'm actually open to both ideas because I've been on both sides of the spectrum and

00:07:04.000 man, I've had my, my world's been rocked over the past eight months. So I've been like, I've been

00:07:09.700 thinking, you know, is, is the status quo and the status quo is not the status quo for everybody.

00:07:14.220 It's my status quo is the way that I've been operating my life actually serving me and other people.

00:07:18.780 Well, in some elements, yes, in a lot of ways, no. And I've had to question that and revamp that

00:07:24.640 in my life at 42, you're talking about 40 years old. So, I mean, we're, we're right there.

00:07:29.420 You know, I did as well. Um, I was able to function very, very well out of that place,

00:07:35.880 right? Like I realize at this point now that inner voice I have, that was, I don't know,

00:07:41.480 let's say meaner to me to get shit done. Um, it's some combination of my dad plus coaches.

00:07:48.200 I had or any of these things, right? It's not really me. It came from the environment

00:07:52.800 that I was brought through and I saw tons of good stuff come from sports and everything

00:08:00.560 else. So I got good benefit from responding well to that voice, but at the other side of

00:08:06.220 that voice, right? This harsh critic that was trying to push me. I really did have the other

00:08:12.300 side of the coin growing up. Like I had love. And so I got both. And so I wasn't ever threatened by

00:08:19.320 this feeling of being called a piece of shit for not getting a workout done. Right. Like I knew that

00:08:24.080 didn't mean Matt Vincent was a piece of shit. Right. So I knew that at a young enough age

00:08:29.340 and got lucky. Yeah. I mean, it is luck, right? We don't, a lot of us will say, oh, luck doesn't

00:08:35.040 exist. No, it does. Like we were born in America. Sounds like you were born to great parents.

00:08:39.300 I was born to a great mother. You know, there's like, I'm semi-intelligent, not totally, but enough

00:08:45.920 where I can, you know, make things happen. That's luck. It has nothing to do with me.

00:08:51.020 I haven't done anything exceptional in my lifetime. I was born to two parents that loved me in 1983

00:08:56.560 as a white dude in America. I've hit par. I didn't bring myself up by my bootstraps. I've overcome the

00:09:03.360 hardest things that I've had to deal with, but that's all that's been in my path. Right. And I think

00:09:08.120 that goes for anyone. And I don't want to discredit my adventure and journey through life because of

00:09:13.460 the starting point I didn't pick, but that's everybody's journey still has to be the, to decide

00:09:19.380 to do more. That's an interesting point. When you said the starting point that I didn't pick,

00:09:25.900 because I think that there are people who are born in less advantageous positions. Poverty is

00:09:33.580 somebody that comes to mind or somebody who's born to a horrible family household or somebody

00:09:39.380 without a dad or a mom around. Like that's not their pick. And yet, what would you have? Here's

00:09:45.320 what I see. I see a lot of society saying, well, because you were born in this quote unquote

00:09:50.360 privileged. I don't like that term, but we'll use it because that's the term being used.

00:09:54.460 You were born in this privileged set of circumstances. What would you have me do?

00:09:59.760 Play less than I'm capable of. That's what pisses me off. Yeah. It's a bummer, right? Because

00:10:06.180 we have so many people to get stuck in comparison and we know that that's what's going to crush people

00:10:11.200 is what you don't have, right? Is people get stuck in lack and they're operating in scarcity and

00:10:15.580 everything else. The more you travel and the more you experience too, right? Like in the last,

00:10:21.420 and this year I've been to Africa twice. We went to South Africa for a trip that was a very fun

00:10:25.360 tourist trip. And then I went to Uganda earlier in March with a friend, Justin Wren from a fight

00:10:32.540 for the forgotten. He's been on the podcast. He's a, he's an incredible human, incredible human. So

00:10:37.220 he is a homie and he hit up me and my media guy to go help him tell fight for the forgotten story.

00:10:43.460 Yeah. So we went to Uganda with him for 10 days and, uh, got to hang out in Western Uganda,

00:10:51.800 like two, like grass runway planes to get to where we're going. Wow. You know, we don't have poverty.

00:11:00.860 No, no. We have fat homeless people, bro. I was at the grocery store today and I saw this guy and

00:11:06.660 he's a homeless guy or maybe not homeless, but he's, he's, he's, he's got some mental issues.

00:11:10.980 We have mental health issues for sure. Right. And he does. And I've seen him for years around

00:11:16.160 here and no judgment. I mean, I don't know what he's dealing with. I don't know what mental issues

00:11:19.980 he's dealing with. I don't know his situation, but the guy is overweight. Um, he's got fairly

00:11:25.660 new clothes on. He's always got a cigarette in his mouth. I'm like, you are not poor. Like,

00:11:30.640 and that's good. I'm not saying that's bad. I'm just saying that sometimes we think, oh,

00:11:34.000 we have it so hard. It's like, we really, really don't.

00:11:37.780 You know, we, uh, we helped Justin's team document, putting and turning over like a,

00:11:42.960 like a water well to a community that serves about a thousand people. And then also turning

00:11:47.680 over this 50 acres of land to the Batwa pygmy people. And you know, you're talking about people

00:11:53.140 without running water. Like you're, you're talking to, we went and did a water walk of what that

00:11:59.320 community did before this well got there. It took me four and a half hours. It took me four

00:12:05.680 and a half hours and it's probably a little over a 10 K. So like six and a half miles and maybe 2,000

00:12:13.300 feet of elevation. Yeah. I was slaughtered. Right. Most people in my country fucking die.

00:12:19.440 Yeah. Right. Exactly.

00:12:21.060 If that switch got flipped more. Also, I think a hundred yard swim kills most people in our country.

00:12:24.860 So it was about six or seven miles. Were they doing that daily?

00:12:30.040 Yeah. That's freaking crazy. So you're talking about four hours every single day.

00:12:35.040 This guy, Michael, that did the walk with us, by the way, no way I would have.

00:12:39.580 He's done it since he was probably five. He's lived in the area. He's now, uh, 30 and graduated

00:12:46.640 from college with a degree in community development, lovely wife. And they live in a mud brick home

00:12:53.200 about 10 by 20. Where did he go to college two weeks ago? Um, about two hours away.

00:12:59.700 Okay. Got it. No. I mean, which is how far school is, which is how far the hospital is,

00:13:05.760 is three hours. And like, people don't have cars, right? Like there's no one to call for,

00:13:09.560 oh, there's an emergency. Like, no, there's, there's not a number for that. And so, yeah, man,

00:13:15.980 I've had things pretty good. I left my cell phone at the house the other day and I damn near lost my

00:13:22.200 mind. Right. Right. Right. Right. Look, it's the hedonic treadmill, right? It is this sense of

00:13:26.580 whatever you get used to becomes your, your fixed point. Like, so like, however, kind of a happy

00:13:31.660 person you are and what level of abundance you live in, no matter what you purchase externally or

00:13:37.380 grab ahold of, you're going to return back to that normal state. Yeah, of course. I mean,

00:13:42.740 in a lot of ways, that's nice, you know, because aren't we all trying to elevate our current state?

00:13:47.720 I think that's part of what we do as humans. That's why we've evolved to who we are today.

00:13:52.980 We wouldn't be in the position we are if we didn't, you know, worry about that, but it's a

00:13:56.960 double-edged sword. Uh, it's, it's maybe the better term to catch 22, right? We have these

00:14:01.540 incredible benefits, but they come at an expense and we don't weigh that expense very often.

00:14:07.200 No. And, and with that, right. Like there becomes a difference if you're using the hedonic

00:14:11.120 treadmill type of idea to level yourself up because you're self-aware and you're trying to

00:14:15.580 push yourself. But if you're operating out of scarcity and you believe that this next thing,

00:14:21.520 next purchase, a little bit bigger house, the next job is going to be the answer to whatever

00:14:25.820 this question is and finally make you feel fulfilled, then you're in a losing game.

00:14:31.620 If you're not happy now, you're not going to be happy then.

00:14:33.980 All right. So admittedly, this is where my slowness comes in. Um, I've heard a lot about

00:14:40.480 hedonism, hedonic, that sort of thing. You're talking about the hedonic treadmill. I admittedly,

00:14:44.560 I just looked it up while we were talking. It says relating to, or considered in terms of pleasant

00:14:49.460 sensations. So what you're talking about is chasing pleasure. Is that what you're saying?

00:14:55.500 Well, not just chasing pleasure. Right. But chasing like fulfillment. So like, if I'm a,

00:15:02.360 if I'm just chasing like, Oh, I bought the new house. I feel great. In three or six months,

00:15:07.460 I'm back to feeling how it was before I bought the house.

00:15:10.460 Okay. So I think we define those terms a little different because, because I, I think pleasure

00:15:14.680 and fulfillment are different. So here's how I would view it and tell me what you think.

00:15:17.940 So pleasure is just feeling good. You know, I could, I could go jack off, you know, after our

00:15:23.760 conversation and that's pleasure. I can feel good. Like I look at that as like an acute pleasure.

00:15:28.620 Sure. But it's not fulfillment because long-term pleasure that fulfillment would be the internal

00:15:33.340 pleasure. Yeah. And I think that comes from, so tell me what you think on this fulfillment.

00:15:37.580 I think fulfillment comes from not the absence of pain or suffering necessarily,

00:15:42.260 but the ability and capability to overcome meaningful suffering. That's how I view fulfillment.

00:15:48.560 I think fulfillment ends up covering a lot. I think that's part of it, but I also think

00:15:53.720 fulfillment comes in, you know, the pursuit of a purchase, you know, a purpose.

00:16:01.000 Exactly. Yeah. I agree. I agree.

00:16:02.820 Fulfillment can come from serving your community and any type of those things. So,

00:16:06.700 yeah, I mean, again, look, just comes down to semantics of how we define a word,

00:16:11.000 but I think we're both on the same page of.

00:16:13.080 I think we are. I'm just wondering that instead of chasing pleasure, which is, I think what you're

00:16:17.540 referring to when you refer to this hedonic treadmill or even happy. Yeah. Agreed.

00:16:25.080 Of I'm supposed to now feel this way because I have these things. Look, I have the house. I've got

00:16:31.160 the car. Why am I still bummed out and bored? I was told that this would bring success and success

00:16:36.400 is supposed to be comfortable with my feet up and me relaxing. I'm filled with anxiety and I'm

00:16:41.000 miserable. Well, so, so why is that? Why, why aren't, why is it the next thing? Cause you've

00:16:47.380 been relatively successful with regards to your, your, your sports performance, your, your business.

00:16:53.560 I think from, from the outside looking in, everybody'd say, Oh, this, this dude's pretty

00:16:57.260 successful. So why is it that those things that most of us look at and think, Oh, if I had the

00:17:02.120 bigger house, the bigger car, more money, a better body, a more attractive woman, fill in the blank

00:17:07.240 that my life would be better. Cause I still think a lot of those people are looking to be identified

00:17:12.040 by the things that they're happy, that they're getting. And if you have an identity that's wrapped

00:17:16.400 up in something else other than you, like, I think you're just in a losing battle all the time

00:17:20.760 because then you're banking on that thing to take care of it. Right? Like if I'm going to identify

00:17:25.280 as Matt Vincent Highland games guy, and eventually that sport ends, we're going to be in a real weird

00:17:30.000 spot. You know, if part of my identity is being in the military, if part of my identity is being a

00:17:35.620 high school football player, whatever it is, when that time comes to an end, it's tough. But if I can

00:17:42.500 be excited and change and be excited in whatever the next task is, that's in the pursuit. And so

00:17:49.660 I guess the way I break it down, right, is we have this idea that like happiness is something we're kind

00:17:56.780 of entitled to for working hard. That if I follow X, happiness comes, that's the rules. My parents said

00:18:02.380 it, I went to college, I got the wife, I did the thing, here's happiness. And it wasn't there.

00:18:08.300 And it isn't there for a lot of folks. And I think one of the beautiful things in our constitution,

00:18:13.420 whether intentional or not, is the, you know, life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

00:18:18.400 Because the brilliance there is pursuit. Because that's where the good stuff is,

00:18:22.860 is that you're chasing something you give a shit about. Like that you care to continue to get better,

00:18:28.080 that you can tear to, that you continue to learn more. And that keeps you present, it keeps you

00:18:33.720 active, it keeps you thinking, it keeps you out of comparison, it keeps you focused on you.

00:18:39.320 And I think that really, that stuff over the long term is really what brings happiness.

00:18:44.340 We're in a weird spot, though, because on the hierarchy of needs, right? Whereas what I saw with

00:18:50.100 the Batois, as a community that's got nothing, happiness and love, they got plenty, plenty. And

00:18:57.900 it's because they have community, they have purpose, and everybody's got value. Because it's

00:19:02.280 really simple there, we got things to get done every day, so that we all have food, water and fire.

00:19:07.900 When we're at kind of a place where we're at in our society, right, that like hierarchy of needs,

00:19:12.340 we've now moved up towards self-actualization. That means you now have to pick your purpose.

00:19:17.680 That's way tougher than daddy telling you what your purpose is going to be.

00:19:22.280 And most people have a real tough time deciding what they want to do in their lives.

00:19:27.360 Why do you think that is such a challenge for people? Because that is one of the common questions

00:19:30.880 we get is like, how do you find your purpose? How do you discover what you're supposed to do?

00:19:36.340 And you know, on one hand, I'm like, that's a good question. We should be pursuing that. And on the

00:19:40.440 other hand, I'm like, man, how incredible do we have it that we're trying to figure out what in the

00:19:47.040 world we should be doing? Because you're talking about these, these people who are like, no,

00:19:51.640 we just need water today. So we can make it till next day.

00:19:54.840 Yeah. Like they don't have a term for future tense.

00:19:57.880 Right. Right.

00:19:59.560 You know, what are you even talking about two weeks from now?

00:20:02.200 Yeah.

00:20:02.960 But I mean, again, but that's living in the shift mindset to being in abundance. Like I can be bummed

00:20:09.760 that I don't know my purpose, or I can be really excited by the fact that I live in a world in a

00:20:15.340 time that I get to try to pursue things that I'm just interested in. Like we're only like two

00:20:21.400 generations worth of people who've been given the opportunity to even try that. Other than that,

00:20:26.540 it's have a job, right? Like we have time now to pursue things and you have to choose.

00:20:34.360 I was talking with my daughter. I think this was just yesterday and I can't even remember how we

00:20:41.060 got talking about it, but I told her that about 250 years ago, America wasn't America.

00:20:47.480 Right.

00:20:48.320 And she's like, wait, what? I'm like, oh yeah, we were, you know, we were part of England and we

00:20:52.760 came over here to expand that empire and we decided enough is enough. And we, we talked a little bit

00:20:57.880 as appropriate about how that, how that all played out. And she was, her mind was blown. She said

00:21:02.740 something interesting. She's like 250 years. Like, is that a long time? No. I mean, it might sound

00:21:09.000 like it, you know, to her at a nine years old. That's not a long time, 250 years. And if you look

00:21:16.560 at it in the scheme of things, like the, the idea that we're free, you were talking about the

00:21:22.920 constitution, like these ideas were, are so etched into our DNA that we just think, oh, isn't this the

00:21:29.900 way it is? No, no, it's not the way it is ever. Right.

00:21:35.620 Right. As, as a species, I think humans are, humans are super neat. Um, we're very interesting,

00:21:43.180 especially if you just watch from space based on our actions, we're fascinating what we choose to do.

00:21:48.300 Um, but man, like it's been pretty fluid over time. Like if you were to watch a time lapse of the last

00:21:57.800 should 500 years, which is really nothing of human, even human history, all of our borders are very

00:22:05.540 fluid. Like if you watch the 10 second time lapse that covered the last 500 years to pretend our

00:22:11.380 borders are going to stay what they are right now until ever is crazy. But for us as a species,

00:22:16.880 it's really hard to grasp more than about 50 years, a hundred years back tops, especially

00:22:24.660 because we didn't have photographic evidence of anything before the last 180 year, you know,

00:22:30.200 whatever that time span is less than 200. And we've been around for 300,000 years as a species

00:22:36.480 as Homo sapiens. We don't have any clue what's happened from then to now. We have a pretty loose

00:22:42.320 idea. If so, if you're not chasing happiness or, or maybe, maybe I misunderstood, but it's not the

00:22:51.420 result that we deserve. Like we don't deserve to be happy. Some people think, well, I I'm entitled to

00:22:56.340 happiness. No, man, that's not a right. Universe does not care. Right. It does not. I mean, obviously

00:23:01.980 all of us have been miserable and different. It doesn't want you upset. It doesn't want you bummed

00:23:06.140 out either. Like you're not a fucking martyr to this existence for choosing a hard path for the

00:23:12.200 sake of it. You know, so I might take exception to that. So I'd like to hear your perception on this

00:23:17.400 because, um, I think if we're saying the universe doesn't care, I think I would probably agree with

00:23:22.500 you because the universe is just like the trees and the plants and the rocks and they're there.

00:23:27.080 All right. Then we probably may differ on definition of universe. So what's your definition?

00:23:31.980 Cause when I, when I think about it, God, I think God, so a higher power, God actually does care

00:23:37.580 and he advocates for us. That's where I land on universe. So you don't think God advocates for

00:23:42.780 you then? Is that what you're saying? I do not. What do you think? Uh, well, I I'm not much on the

00:23:49.200 big capital G Christian God to begin with. So what is the universe universe? So what is the purpose of

00:23:57.340 the quote unquote universe? What is the purpose of it? I have no idea. Well, you say you believe

00:24:02.620 in a higher power. I'm a dude that lives on a rock on a corner of it. That'll only be here for like

00:24:07.560 70 years. I don't have any, I threw rocks in a field. I don't have any concept of what the purpose

00:24:11.340 of the universe is. That's interesting. I do. I do. I can appreciate that answer, but I'm at,

00:24:16.000 I'm wondering if you have a concept of a higher power, if the higher power is indifferent to the way

00:24:23.640 that we're living our lives, what is, what is, do you feel like there's a reason for a higher power

00:24:29.540 or is it all nothing? I think the higher power would be whatever we want to call it, right?

00:24:33.500 The vibe collection. Sure. Right. I do think the higher power is the collective is all of us in the

00:24:41.120 universe. Everything's the same and figuring out how to operate in somewhat harmony. Like I think

00:24:47.540 that's the, all of us trying to align. That's the- But for what outcome? And the reason I say this

00:24:54.400 is because if there is a higher power, and these are questions I'm asking myself too. So I'm really

00:24:59.600 glad we get out of this conversation. Yeah. If there is a higher power, then I think based on what

00:25:05.480 you're saying, there is some, at least I believe, tell me if you don't believe this, but there is

00:25:10.040 some sort of intelligent design behind it. And if that's the case, why? Like there's, if there's a

00:25:15.640 design, what's the greater purpose? I don't know. I don't know as well. I think it could

00:25:24.020 all be made up. We don't have any concept of what happens after the lights get turned

00:25:27.140 out. We have faith on a bunch of things. But do I think that we nailed the grand idea

00:25:33.440 of creation? Yeah. I don't, I don't think that either. Of course, how could we? Yeah. I mean,

00:25:41.520 from my perspective, the closest I can get is to read the Bible and the word of God and apply it.

00:25:46.980 That's as close as I can get, but that's a lot of words from man as well. So we're also talking

00:25:52.620 about a book that handpicked what gospels it wanted to add to it. Right. And so as soon as you add man

00:25:58.300 editing to it so that it has more power to put people in seats, like now we're talking about

00:26:02.920 marketing. Interesting. Church is a hell of a business. Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean,

00:26:09.440 look, I'm not anti-religion. I think people need community and I think people need conversations

00:26:16.040 for all this. But I think treating any of that stuff as like a textbook is where things get,

00:26:25.060 get strange because we're aware of situations that took place long before the Bible has given us

00:26:31.440 dates that, that align. My, my thought is, is that let's just say just for the sake of argument that

00:26:38.420 what we're talking, the Bible is not the word of God. Let's just say that. Sure. My thought is

00:26:45.240 it's, I don't know if I need it to be because it leads me to a good life. Right on then. Right on

00:26:52.740 then. So then it's a philosophy book and that doesn't make the rules hard either. Those are rules

00:26:58.120 you're choosing to follow, right? That doesn't make them right and wrong. But I do think there are

00:27:02.560 certain behaviors that are going to serve not just yourself, which is, I think what we're talking

00:27:09.680 about now, but serve collectively people, your, your, your neighbors, your community, your, your

00:27:15.800 hoods. And we ought to do in every single spiritual text ever. Agreed. But there are people who choose

00:27:22.940 not to follow those rules and think that they're entitled to live a life that is contradictory to

00:27:28.800 what might be good for the whole. Yeah. Those people are assholes. Or criminals.

00:27:33.220 People, right? Like, I mean, you know, there's assholes in every group. Christianity is not the

00:27:38.920 biggest fuck up. Neither is anything else. Yeah. I agree. People, people, people can be the solution

00:27:46.300 and the problem, right? Yeah. People, people are the problem, right? Like, and, and I guess whatever

00:27:51.020 I believe, right? Like if we're going to talk about God, what that means for me, um, it's the source,

00:27:58.380 man. Like, you know, when you have those moments and you feel transmission come through a download,

00:28:04.600 whatever you want to call it, this information about, you know, that makes more sense. A divine

00:28:10.500 moment, that connection to source when everything seems clear and things are present. That to me,

00:28:17.460 like that's, that's being close to it. Yeah. I can support that, right? Like, I don't know what

00:28:23.280 that thing is. Do I think it's an old dude in robes with big beard? I don't. But the big beard

00:28:29.340 is kind of, I mean, the big beard is kind of appealing, right? White Jesus is a great selling

00:28:34.160 tactic. We love it. White Jesus. Well, you know, it's funny because people, what do you look like?

00:28:40.760 No, I mean, of course, how could we know? But it's funny because if you look at most cultures,

00:28:45.100 they all have their own, their own cultural version of Jesus. You know, if you look at Asians and they

00:28:50.040 believe in Christ, he's going to have more of an Asian tint to them. It's like, of course,

00:28:54.520 we've got to relate with it, right? You have to go for the target demographic. That's

00:28:58.980 for sure. As soon as the filter gets laid over the other thing, at some point, they're like,

00:29:03.120 oh, we got to change this up. People aren't coming in. But you know, where I get hung up is I'm really

00:29:08.160 glad we're talking, because I don't think we totally see eye to eye on this, but I'm really glad that we

00:29:12.080 can talk about it in a respectful way is where I get hung up is like, I might post a picture of Jesus,

00:29:16.820 let's say, hypothetically, why Jesus? And people are like, I don't know what he looked like.

00:29:21.660 I don't care what he looked like. I really don't care what he looked like. Let's talk about the

00:29:26.260 messaging. Just that's exactly right. Look, because of how we've decided to communicate over the last

00:29:33.080 10 years, we've made a big, a lot of switches because we're tech, we're now communicating by text

00:29:39.840 way more than we ever communicate in person. So we lose 99% of like nonverbal communication

00:29:46.140 just through that way of communicating. So I'm losing empathy, losing tone, I'm losing context

00:29:51.700 for the last 10 sentences we just said to each other. And I'm reading everything in whatever

00:29:56.160 fucking mood I'm in, especially if I'm sitting around in a shitty attacked feeling all the time,

00:30:00.240 limiting scarcity. And so everything someone says that disagrees with me was actually a stab at my

00:30:05.800 beliefs instead of like, I didn't have shit to do with me. Right. So you posting white Jesus,

00:30:13.080 right? Do I think there's some obvious things I could point out to be a prick? Yeah, of course I

00:30:18.160 can. What do I read as your intention of posting that? That's what I give a shit about. I want to

00:30:24.720 be able to read someone's intention and not worry about so much about what our sloppy language does,

00:30:32.020 because we all define words differently. I mean, look how much you and I have now had to sit here and

00:30:36.400 actually define words to find common ground to realize what we're both trying to explain.

00:30:41.680 You know, it's a sloppy fucking tool. Whereas if you could actually just understand everything

00:30:46.980 I'm intending you to, that's a way different ballgame. And so now communicate, I try to do that.

00:30:55.380 All right, man, let me step away from the conversation very quickly. Now you've heard me

00:30:59.560 talk a lot about the need for and importance of planning, but so few of us know exactly what

00:31:07.340 that looks like. I struggled with it for a very long time. And with all of the planners available,

00:31:12.940 it's really hard to know which one works best. If there even is a best, every system that I ran

00:31:19.000 across had its pros and its cons and some things I liked and some things I didn't. And it just became

00:31:24.960 a challenge with running three or four or five or 10 different planners to see which was best. And

00:31:29.700 that's why we created the 12 week battle planner. We took the best elements of other planners out

00:31:34.960 there. We left the rest with them and we've been evolving our systems and processes for the last

00:31:40.780 eight years to really create and hone and refine a tool that you will use every single day to produce

00:31:48.380 maximum results. Now you're not going to get inundated and overwhelmed with your planning.

00:31:52.020 It's simple, it's strategic, and you're only focusing on what's important so that you can actually get

00:31:57.860 out there and get to work, not sit around planning all the time. So if you're ready to buy the last

00:32:03.080 planner that I think you'll ever need, head to order a man.com slash TWBP as in 12 week battle

00:32:10.240 planner. Again, that's order a man.com slash TWBP. All right. You can do that right after the show

00:32:16.280 for now. Let's get back to it with Matt. And I think the responsibility is on both of us and

00:32:22.100 that's where people get lost. Cause a lot of people at times I see this is like, all right,

00:32:25.980 so you just said, it's my responsibility to communicate a message that I intend, right? You just said that.

00:32:30.480 Hmm. So a lot of people will say, well, you know, it's Matt's job to make sure he does a good job

00:32:35.900 communicating and sure, but it's also my job to make sure that I get to the root of what you're

00:32:41.360 actually saying, rather than I like your term sloppy language to describe and articulate it.

00:32:47.340 Yeah. Look, I mean, you know, further depth, right. Of, you know, one of the first things I dove into

00:32:52.360 when I started trying to, you know, resort myself out was, you know, different books. And one of those

00:32:57.260 being the four agreements, um, highly recommended and really incredible. And I, and I believe a lot

00:33:02.360 of that, right? Like don't take things personal, be impeccable with your word. Don't make assumptions

00:33:07.320 and always do your best really simple rules. So like, don't take it personal. There's no way

00:33:13.760 that you were sitting at home and thought about me when you made that post. I'm very aware that everyone

00:33:20.560 I deal with is pretty much only thinking about them. Yeah. Right. That eliminates a lot of feeling

00:33:27.060 of, oh no, everyone insecurity or fucking gives a shit about you. They don't, they're busy and they're

00:33:34.080 tied up in their own shit. Uh, and then you're being impeccable with my word that does make it on me

00:33:40.880 to make sure that you understand my intention, right? Because I'm never going to try to be a prick

00:33:48.020 to anyone. If I have to try to be a prick to someone, probably just pass on having an interaction

00:33:54.680 with you. I'll just skip it. It's fine by me. We don't have to hang out. Right. I'm not interested.

00:34:00.400 I don't care that we don't agree on things. That's fine by me. Come on, man. You don't want to win

00:34:04.420 everybody you come in contact with over. I would rather skip it and go spend 10 more seconds talking

00:34:09.960 to someone I enjoy a conversation with. Good call. That's such a good call. Like I don't care that we,

00:34:16.060 I don't, I don't give a shit. Yeah. So very confident how I feel about things. It's worked

00:34:21.360 out well, but I think that comes to your, your, uh, concept of scarcity that you brought up several

00:34:28.640 times now, because there are a lot of people where they might have that scarcity mindset versus what

00:34:33.520 you're referring to, which is abundance. So if this doesn't work out cool, I've got a thousand

00:34:37.340 people over here. I'd much rather have a conversation with not everybody thinks like that. Is that

00:34:42.180 something that you've always had or learned or developed relatively recently?

00:34:47.320 Um, it was definitely something I learned more of. Um, I don't know that I ever fell into a real

00:34:53.380 trap of it, but like, you can see it, right? Like it's pretty simple when scarcity stuff starts popping

00:34:58.420 up. That's the must be nice. I'm sure I've said that, you know, it must be nice to be them. Like

00:35:02.900 you don't know their story. Right. I don't have anything to do with you. You know, they've probably

00:35:07.600 also done a ton for it, you know, whatever, you know, the thing is. So it must be nice as such a

00:35:12.660 bullshit scarcity idea. Instead of seeing someone doing a thing that I'd like to do, or I wish I

00:35:19.640 could do, or any of those types of things, looking at it from the perspective of, holy shit, that's

00:35:24.280 possible. That means there are steps to figure out, to get that done the same way of getting a 400 pound

00:35:30.020 bench. There's no magic to it. It's just show up and add a little bit every time. And so if I go

00:35:35.680 scarcity, it's like, oh, it must be nice. He's got this, this, this, and this, or I can start

00:35:39.360 figuring it out. And so, so many people operate out of that scarcity that it's tough to ever get

00:35:45.940 out of. For me, I fell into it for a while, man. And then the, I got really shifted to gratitude and

00:35:53.080 abundance. Um, while I was hurt and my knee was all jacked up and I couldn't really walk that much

00:36:00.180 anymore. I'm doing like 200 yards a day before I'm pretty much shot. Um, I'm traveling with a cane

00:36:06.600 and man, I'm bitter and shitty and I'm dark and I'm in chronic pain and I'm mean to people around me.

00:36:13.560 And at some point I, I decided in that, that I need to do something about this because I've never

00:36:20.960 had depression. I've never been mentally unstable or any of those types of things. And in that chapter

00:36:27.220 of my life, I knew very honestly talking to myself that like, if I don't get out of pain,

00:36:31.760 like I'm not going to die an old man walking around with a cane, I'll, I'll fucking kill myself

00:36:35.500 or I'll figure out how to get rid of the leg. I just, at some point I'm going to lose that battle

00:36:40.740 and I know it. And so there's a freedom that comes from that honesty with myself. If that's the,

00:36:47.500 if that's what comes from not solving this problem of getting out of pain, then everything's

00:36:51.880 on the table for trying, like, let me let go of anything I've believed would fucking make a

00:36:58.660 mistake or do something wrong or whatever. Let's try everything. So ice baths, and then, um, change

00:37:05.860 my diet from, you know, whatever I was eating to keto and carnivore, cause it reduces inflammation.

00:37:10.700 Noticed a little bit of change, like, all right, cool. And even the lying to myself about,

00:37:14.960 you know, I'm watching my calories. Why aren't you losing weight? Because I wasn't,

00:37:18.720 you're watching some, you actually do it. You're like, oh yeah, yeah, I wasn't doing it.

00:37:25.360 Right. Same thing with the bank account. I see that all the time. Guys are like, oh, you know,

00:37:29.900 I'm, I'm making 5,000 more than I need a month. How long you been doing that for 12 months? Show me

00:37:34.560 your $60,000. No, I only have like 3,000 in my account. All right. You're lying to yourself.

00:37:40.700 Right. Yeah. You're kidding yourself. Right. So through that, you know, being accountable to like,

00:37:46.740 I've got to get myself out of this or I'm fucked. And so, um, you know, the next thing if, you know,

00:37:52.200 a few changes here and there, uh, I need something to help sleep and I can't continue to just eat

00:37:57.520 opiates, man. I know where that goes. You know, luckily I haven't had any addiction issues,

00:38:01.940 but I mean, I sent home with pills for three straight years and made a switch to cannabis.

00:38:08.800 And so I started using cannabis at that time to like help with sleep with

00:38:13.220 edibles or anything else. And I remember, man, I just remember because of how ingrained like

00:38:19.540 dare and just say no. And everything I had grown up around that, like, there's an amount of this

00:38:25.780 that will make me a fucking loser and it's going to ruin my life. And I don't know when that happens,

00:38:31.120 but it's going to. And so I was really nervous about it and I kept using it. And I noticed I slept

00:38:37.540 better. And then I also noticed I wasn't as shitty to people around me and I tolerated pain in my leg

00:38:42.520 better. And I was in a better mood. I also was able to train again, X, Y, and Z. I'm like, Oh,

00:38:50.760 fascinating. So this is a new tool because it blew away everything I had learned about my

00:38:56.080 expectations of what I had learned growing up from the people I was around and everything that this

00:39:00.560 would ruin my life. And so from there it was like, all right, well, what else is on the table?

00:39:04.880 And, uh, I got exposed to trying psilocybin and got into mushrooms and that blew the doors off of

00:39:11.500 everything. That was the first time in a three year stint that like my pain went to a zero and that

00:39:18.540 wasn't an expected part of the deal. But when that happened and then I realized like, I just had

00:39:24.320 nothing but love for the people that I was sharing space with that night. And, uh, man, if that's a

00:39:31.340 side effect from, from the thing I'm taking, I'm into it. Do you feel like ever, cause I've had the

00:39:36.100 same things that you thought with cannabis or psilocybin or any of these, you know, ayahuasca

00:39:40.460 type experiences. Do you feel like these are truly things that unlock or help or are they a cloak and

00:39:49.260 do they disguise or, or sedate or cover up in some way? Cause that's where I naturally gravitate to be

00:39:55.860 honest. Well, I think that goes back to the intention of using the tool. I don't think those things

00:40:00.360 have any good or bad intention to them, right? Like, I don't mean their intention. I mean,

00:40:07.480 ultimately your, your use of those things is obviously there. They can be abused. Of course.

00:40:13.260 So there were fucking cheeseburgers. Yeah. Good point. Right. Like, so, I mean, that's,

00:40:18.860 that's a, that's a user error, you know, that's for you to determine, but to lump everything in as

00:40:25.600 good or bad is fucking crazy. That makes sense. I can get behind that because it's not for you.

00:40:31.460 Sweet. At least, well, at least no. Well, here's, here's one that gets me quite often is like people

00:40:37.340 be like, Oh, I can have my coffee, my coffee. Cause I need my caffeine for the day. Well,

00:40:40.660 okay. Yeah. Your own drug. Now we're just talking about degrees of drugs that you're going to use.

00:40:46.940 That's all we're talking about now. That's exactly it. Right. And as soon as my perspective shifted to

00:40:50.720 that and realizing that like, Oh, you mean I'm taking a chemical to help my improve my performance

00:40:56.400 today? Right. So where does this differ from caffeine to protein? Protein. Right. Exactly.

00:41:03.460 I'm doing a thing to alter my performance, right. From whatever my natural state is the same thing with

00:41:09.460 checking pre-workout. Right. And like, yeah, it's not like I put a lump and draw a line either. Like,

00:41:16.600 it's not that I don't, I don't believe cocaine or heroin or any of these other drugs are inherently

00:41:21.560 bad. These are fucking miracle drugs that we came up with to help solve medical problems. Being abused

00:41:26.960 by people is the problem. I mean, we still have prescription cocaine. We still use, right? We

00:41:34.220 developed heroin because we thought it would be a less addictive morphine. We were incorrect.

00:41:39.920 This is part of how science fucking works. Yeah. I think there's also, we have to consider

00:41:46.060 our personalities, right? I mean, I know that there's no such thing as trying. There's no such

00:41:53.160 thing as dabbling. That is not in my vocabulary. Like if I'm in, I'm in and I have to be very cautious

00:42:00.320 on the things that I do, whether it's alcohol or caffeine or any of these, which admittedly I have

00:42:05.980 not tried. I mean, I smoked some weed when I was younger, but that's about it, you know, more than

00:42:10.080 some of these other things. But, um, I think it's important to know ourselves so that we don't

00:42:16.040 take it too far. Do you, do you run across that? Like, do you have an obsessive type personality?

00:42:20.760 Do you have a personality where it's like all in throwing rocks in a field? I'm not exactly.

00:42:26.120 Um, yeah, I have a bit of an obsessive personality. Um,

00:42:31.120 and, and yeah, dude, I, I, I like all of it, but I mean, addiction wise, I also have no problem in

00:42:38.620 saying like, oh, shit, I'm not going to use anything for the next 30 days. And I don't have

00:42:41.380 any problem with that. You know, I think, again, it's trying to figure out how to use the tool

00:42:46.420 to benefit you the most. I mean, do I think there's some wonderful thing to living in a natural state?

00:42:53.860 Well, again, what does that mean? Does that mean no coffee, no caffeine? I'm going to,

00:42:56.600 so at some point, I don't know where the line gets drawn. Right. I don't think my government

00:43:04.320 has drawn the lines for me in a way that is decided on what's good for me and bad for me.

00:43:09.940 Well, I don't think I want anybody, especially the government, a collective of, of people grabbing

00:43:14.580 power, telling me what the line, I'm not interested in that. I think collectively we should make

00:43:19.280 decisions, but sure. And if we've built a culture that has gotten away from any type of delayed

00:43:25.140 gratification and wants medication to fix a thing immediately without any work, none of this shit

00:43:30.840 works. It doesn't work that way. None of it does. Not mushrooms and not fucking whatever diet pills

00:43:37.080 you take. Like it might get some sort of temporary experience, but yeah. It's an enhancement. Sure.

00:43:44.580 But it's not where you operate from. Is there a point where there's too much mushrooms? Fuck yeah.

00:43:49.820 Like, you're not going to get a lot done. And I do think, look what we've seen with people as far as

00:43:56.540 mental health stuff, right? That like, if you've got schizophrenia in your family or any of these

00:44:00.180 things, I think maybe don't dabble. I think probably be smart about that. But I, I think that's where

00:44:07.840 you're talking about with regards to the line. You say, well, I don't know where the line is. I think

00:44:11.920 you probably do, but it's not the same for everybody. Right. So if I, I could look at, for example,

00:44:16.880 alcohol abuse, I don't, I don't have anything against anybody who wants to have a drink. I

00:44:20.960 would love to have one, but I know that if I have one, I'll have two. And if I have two, I'll have

00:44:24.700 four. And if I have four, I'll have eight. So I'm going to not do that because the line is blurred

00:44:29.480 for me. And, and I'm not interested in that. And the line may not be blurred for you, but it's blurred

00:44:35.200 for me. And I need to know the line of what's helping me be a better man and what's keeping me from

00:44:43.700 being a better man. In my case, alcohol was keeping, I felt good, but it was keep because

00:44:49.200 I was an asshole. Well, it turned into a straight up asshole. Right. Two questions in that I think

00:44:54.160 are really fucking important in regarding an action you're taking, because I don't believe

00:44:58.460 in inherent good or bad. Are you, what is your intention of doing it? Are you disconnecting

00:45:02.840 or are you trying to connect? Because there's a big difference in me sitting here and fucking smoking

00:45:07.700 a joint to not deal with work, to not deal with my bank account, to not deal with my bullshit

00:45:12.860 and me deciding to have a joint with my chick and sit on the couch and enjoy a movie together

00:45:17.980 and be intimate. Right. There's a difference in the intention of why I'm choosing to use

00:45:22.560 the thing. And that goes for mushrooms, ayahuasca, food, sex, porn, whatever it is, whatever your

00:45:29.380 vice is, you know, they can be things that connect us so they can be tools that don't.

00:45:34.040 Hmm. So that's a litmus test for you. Is this, is this activity or behavior, something that's

00:45:39.660 going to connect me to somebody I care about, or is it going to disconnect me from that person

00:45:43.920 or some experience I should be having? Right. Or am I purposely trying to disconnect?

00:45:48.860 And if I am, let's fucking be honest and say it. I'm not saying that that's a negative to do all

00:45:53.660 the time, but I don't want to be blind to the intention I have of like, yo, I need a fucking minute.

00:45:57.960 Right. I guess the, for me, that the thing is with that disconnection is I realized,

00:46:03.400 okay, I am for what alcohol use. Like that's a disconnect for me. Like I got to tap out. Like

00:46:08.120 I too much, I'm out. So I disconnect. And I'm thinking about it, you know, this weekend,

00:46:12.760 tomorrow, actually, I'm taking my kids to go camping. That's a disconnect. And for me,

00:46:17.180 that's a happier, healthier, more productive disconnect and getting sloshed and treating

00:46:23.540 everybody like shit. That's not a disconnect from your bullshit. Fair. Good point.

00:46:29.600 That's a disconnect from some outside interference. That is your normal life,

00:46:35.120 getting yourself into an actual new environment to have a different fucking perspective. Literally

00:46:40.420 slow down, get present. You'll be out in sunshine. You'll be out in green, which we,

00:46:46.720 we can see on any type of scientific stuff helps our mental health. Like, Oh, no kidding. You felt

00:46:52.900 better going camping. It ain't magic, right? Like it is getting a moment to catch your breath and do

00:46:58.360 all those things. And I think just like, just like the way we train, right? That if I train really,

00:47:04.280 really hard for five or six weeks, like I, I build a deload into my schedule so that I stay healthy.

00:47:09.400 And then I train really hard the next five or six weeks. When's the last time you built a deload in

00:47:14.480 toward this career that you're growing to say like, Hey, I still feel really good and excited,

00:47:20.000 but next week I'm going to slow down just to slow down and let my thoughts catch up and sort through

00:47:27.080 some of the things and look back and say, what did the last six months do? And do I want to continue

00:47:31.940 on this path or not? What would I like to change instead of just reacting to whatever the next thing

00:47:37.600 that got put in front of you was? I think that you need some time to slow down and be able to actually

00:47:43.000 be aware of what you're doing with your time in your life and reevaluate always.

00:47:49.960 I agree. Cause I mean, my, my natural tendency is like, Oh, do you hear that? I'm like, Ooh,

00:47:56.100 deload, take time off. Like I'm not, I can't, I gotta be productive, bro.

00:48:00.460 What, what the amazing American thing that we've built into people, how dare you relax?

00:48:06.420 How dare you relax? Hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle. And you know, and I'm for it. Don't get me wrong.

00:48:13.060 But I also know that the most progress I ever made training is when I built in times to reevaluate

00:48:19.960 and recover instead of just running it until the wheels fall off. And then I have a catastrophic

00:48:24.900 failure of injury. And then I have to reevaluate my entire life. I mean, what if I booked a cabin

00:48:31.220 every three weeks on the calendar to disappear to for, for, for 72 hours? Cause that's really about

00:48:37.720 the time it takes like any type of road trip or camping trip or any of this, right? There's this

00:48:43.120 magic window of after 72 hours that happens. Like day one's a little anxious, trying to get into the

00:48:48.620 vibe of thing and the rhythm and shut off what was going on. And day two is a little bit less of that

00:48:53.160 noise. And day three, you're no longer where you were. You're now in rhythm of a new thing and it all

00:49:01.040 fades out. And it's important. I was going to say, and then day four and day five, I'm like, all right,

00:49:06.260 I've had enough. I'm ready to get back to it. Absolutely. Absolutely. But wouldn't I rather

00:49:10.260 run back with that than the, Oh, I've got to get this stuff done tomorrow. That's a good point.

00:49:16.500 Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It's rejuvenating to go out and do those things. So I'm, I'm really glad

00:49:22.060 you're talking about this because most of the guys listening to this podcast and are in tune with us

00:49:26.280 are probably a lot like us. I imagine you're similar in that it's like, no, just go a hundred percent all

00:49:31.940 the time as hard, as long, as fast as you can go. And then, you know, you can worry about that

00:49:36.480 sleep stuff later. No, if, if the thing you're doing makes you happy, wide open, I'm not here to

00:49:45.060 tell you to slow down, but where does, where does happiness, where does happiness and like,

00:49:54.260 so I hear that a lot, like if it makes you happy. And I think that's a modern, you know, mantra that

00:50:00.340 is misused to actually maybe not totally take care of yourself the way that you should,

00:50:08.060 or to treat other people like garbage because you just need to be happy. That's your goal to be happy

00:50:14.600 in life. Look, I fully believe I get to pursue whatever I want to in this life and no one else

00:50:23.740 gets a vote at all. And I think you get to do the same. And at no point can my purpose in pursuing mine

00:50:32.220 be more important than yours. I can't do anything that puts mine in the way of yours of like, well,

00:50:39.220 mine's more important. No, that's your cunt, right? So being aware and having boundaries and deciding to

00:50:46.820 pursue the thing that you're in love with is not an excuse to be an asshole. That doesn't work that

00:50:53.380 way. You can still love all those people, even though they don't understand what you're chasing.

00:50:56.720 They don't have to get it. You're chasing it. It's your thing. Just keep leading it, doing it.

00:51:05.220 I'm, uh, I'm writing some of the, I take notes on these podcasts because, and I tell the guys like

00:51:09.740 these podcasts are more for me than they are anybody else. And someone with 300 episodes of a

00:51:14.160 podcast, I get it. And that's why I started it as an excuse to talk to people smarter than me.

00:51:19.320 Yeah. So I just wrote here that your, your pursuit of happiness doesn't allow you to be an

00:51:23.360 a, an asshole, right? It's not a permission slip to be a dick to everybody else around you.

00:51:29.020 Nope. Doesn't work that way. Doesn't work that way, man.

00:51:33.140 Do you think that though, there's also things that people could do that might provide quote

00:51:37.940 unquote happiness that are actually dangerous or destructive? I mean, for example, let's take

00:51:42.320 transgenderism is a great example of that. You know, I, I see that and I see people say, well,

00:51:47.120 you know, they should be, especially a child. This is where I take real issues. Like, well,

00:51:51.480 they need to relate with who they are. And it's like, well, hold on, hold on. You're telling them

00:51:56.200 to pursue this feeling of who they are, happiness or bliss or whatever it might be at the expense of

00:52:01.340 their own physical wellbeing and emotional wellbeing. Yeah, man, that one's a really complicated one.

00:52:06.680 I don't have a lot of answers for man. Again, my own personal experience with mental health

00:52:12.780 has been one thing. Um, I've got a handful of transgendered friends, uh, some pre post-op.

00:52:20.800 And so I've kind of got a variety of at least stories and understanding of what that experience

00:52:26.060 feels like from some people that are adults and where I ended up falling on it, trying to have

00:52:33.260 empathy and understanding of it is you ever suffer from like body dysmorphia?

00:52:37.780 Yeah. Yeah. Any way, shape or form of like look in the mirror and wish you feel like you're a little

00:52:43.060 bit leaner than you actually look. Or the only thing I could say is like, I wish that I was,

00:52:47.620 you know, more fit or more strong or not as, you know, maybe a less body fat percentage,

00:52:53.140 something like that. But like the way you feel internally and you look in the mirror,

00:52:56.580 there's a slight disconnect. For sure. Yeah. I feel better than maybe I actually look,

00:53:01.460 I would say. Right. And so if I can be aware of at least that tiny feeling, right? That the mirror

00:53:09.220 does not reflect back to me, what I feel internally further on that spectrum to a more extreme thing,

00:53:17.540 or people that decide to remove a limb, because that happens. You have people that have a mental

00:53:22.740 disorder and decide to get rid of their leg because they don't feel like their legs part of them.

00:53:27.300 This goes on in lots of different ways. Our brains are really interesting, but who you are and what

00:53:32.900 reflected in the mirror aren't the same. And so I know that if I can experience some part of it,

00:53:37.620 I can't imagine if what was happening to me is when I look in the mirror, I expect to see a woman.

00:53:42.740 That's something that if I wrap my head around, I'm like, fuck, that's complicated.

00:53:47.380 And I don't know what growing up around that is, especially in a household that

00:53:50.980 is completely not supportive of it and calls me a fag and all this other type of shit.

00:53:57.220 And then I know that the pendulum swing the other way of completely love and not having

00:54:03.780 some questions and things like that doesn't seem to be a great answer either.

00:54:07.940 So I don't, I don't know the solution to it, but I do know it's a really complicated thing that it,

00:54:13.380 it's going to be tough for us to have a black and white answer on this. And that's what a lot of

00:54:17.060 people want is something that we have to make a law about because we've decided to let daddy

00:54:21.780 make all of our decisions for us. It's a, it's a government. Yes. Yeah. Well, I think, I think,

00:54:31.300 yeah, that's an interesting, interesting conversation. I, it's, it, I think it's a

00:54:36.420 little different than looking at yourself and thinking, well, you know, I, I'm stronger than

00:54:40.020 this because that's, that's something that's objective. Right. But if you look at with,

00:54:43.940 well, as someone who lost a hundred pounds, right. But you can weigh that, you can measure that.

00:54:49.300 Yeah. Sure. In my dreams, I'm still fat. Right. So there's that way.

00:54:54.820 Oh yeah. In my dreams. Like when I have dreams and I'm in them, I'm fat.

00:54:58.980 Oh, you're, you're the representation of you as a, as a fat guy.

00:55:02.340 Yeah. So I do believe that part of my identity is still, it looks that way.

00:55:06.260 Hmm. Right. And again, if there's just a disconnect between the, who I am and the,

00:55:12.660 what I see in the mirror, like that's the base level of what's going on with a lot of that.

00:55:19.460 As soon as we had sexuality and gender, and then there's environmental issues of nature,

00:55:24.420 there's so many factors here. There's so many factors that again, I threw rocks in a field.

00:55:31.380 So one of the things I take issue with is that we're not allowed to question. Cause I think you're

00:55:39.060 right. Is that we need to have, like, it's never that, or it's always that. And it's like, all right,

00:55:45.060 let's say my kids, one of my kids, well, not only that, but we've become very tribal. Um, we've always

00:55:52.820 been tribal, but even more so, and there's no humanity in it. So let's say my 15 year old comes

00:55:57.140 to me and he's like, Hey dad, I feel like a girl. You're telling me I'm not even supposed to

00:56:02.020 question that, that I'm not supposed to say, well, hold on, son. Like, let me just go ahead

00:56:06.500 and reaffirm that for you. Yeah. That's not how I would, or am I supposed to? Yeah. And of course,

00:56:11.300 I'm not asking what I'm supposed to do. Cause I know I, what I would do in that case, but,

00:56:15.700 but that's what society will tell you. Well, you're not supposed to question him to a church camp

00:56:19.940 and beating him is a great move. Right. And I'm not suggesting that, you know what I mean?

00:56:24.180 So like that's what we did for a long time, right? This is a pendulum swing.

00:56:28.980 Yeah. Yeah. I think there was a lot of obviously more punishment and, and some of that that came

00:56:34.260 with it for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I'm trying to, I'm dropping them ahead. This is like,

00:56:41.300 this is actually one of, and, and I've had a lot of conversations, like I think 460 or something with

00:56:46.660 incredible people. I'm like, man, this one's interesting. Cause it's causing me to think,

00:56:49.940 and we don't see it all the same. So I'm like, this is no, which is good. I want to talk to other

00:56:54.500 intelligent people who've thought through things. I'm not right about any of this. This is my

00:57:00.740 perspective. This is what I've landed on that allows me to see the world in a way that I enjoy

00:57:05.300 seeing the world. Yeah. One of the things that you've talked about and you shared with me is that

00:57:10.500 you have different retreats. I mean, I know you travel, but you do different retreats as well.

00:57:15.140 Um, and you said, you've got this men's retreat where it's, it's, it's called hard reset. And you

00:57:21.700 talk about the, like, it's awareness based is what you said. And I'm curious about that. Cause

00:57:28.420 immediately when I hear that, like, again, this is my mindset and this is why this conversation is so

00:57:33.620 good for me is like awareness reset to me sounds like some woo woo thing of like, get happy and feel

00:57:42.700 wonderful and forget your responsibility. Like that's what I hear. So I have for you following

00:57:48.860 up on that. Does that create a negative or a positive for you? Does it elicit positive?

00:57:54.540 Is that what you're asking? Yeah. It elicits negative for me. Okay. So I don't attribute

00:58:00.220 awareness to being negative. I attribute awareness to being, me being able to have an honest communication

00:58:05.660 with myself that doesn't have judgment involved and especially not judgment of expectations of people

00:58:10.700 that I don't fucking answer to. So having men come in for this weekend, right. And be able to realize

00:58:17.900 that their past, whoever they grew up around, whatever those circumstances are, you didn't pick,

00:58:24.300 you didn't pick any of those things. They're not who the fuck you are. They didn't. You don't have

00:58:29.100 to continue carrying any of this shit with you. You can decide right now in this moment

00:58:35.500 to let it go, hit reset and start taking fucking actions and building a plan to become who you want

00:58:42.220 to. We've just proven that you got here based on the surroundings you were in and the things you

00:58:48.140 experienced. So what now, if you get at the wheel and decide to start pointing the car and where you

00:58:53.260 want your life to go toward the experiences that'll shape you into being who the fuck you want to be.

00:58:57.660 Hmm. Right. Taking control of shit, realizing that these things that happened to me aren't me. It does

00:59:05.580 suck. It's a super fucking bummer that, that terrible things happen to people, whatever it is, being not

00:59:13.740 loved, being too loved, not learning things, feeling like I can't try new stuff because I should have

00:59:19.420 known how to do that by now and realize, you know, everyone sucks at stuff, by the way, just that it so

00:59:25.500 happens the last time you sucked at things, you were a kid and you pretend that that's because

00:59:29.260 you were a kid instead of new at it. So congratulations, as an adult, you should

00:59:33.820 probably suck at stuff again. And maybe that sucking with stuff is you got to start sucking

00:59:38.300 at learning how to talk to yourself. You know, why do I feel that way? Why do those triggers hit?

00:59:43.660 You know, why does that offend me when it isn't about me? You know, who am I, whose expectation am I

00:59:48.620 living up to? And has that brought me what I want in my life? And what do I really want?

00:59:54.700 What if I start taking a choice and putting my foot in the sand and deciding like, this is the

00:59:59.660 life I want. I'm going on this path and no one else gets a vote. Like that's awareness. And I want

01:00:05.980 people to be able to leave that and start taking action and give them some tools with breath work,

01:00:12.140 a couple of different varieties, tools of being able to how to journal and start having that

01:00:16.940 communication with yourself and build a practice around it. Install a morning routine,

01:00:22.380 figure out how to put your oxygen mask on before you start trying to help anyone else for the day.

01:00:27.020 Like, man, otherwise you just stay reactionary and in fight or flight the whole day long.

01:00:31.980 You know, we sauna and we cold plunge, as well as do some more transformative holotropic breathing stuff.

01:00:38.220 And in all of those things, we also do a beginner jujitsu, a beginner boxing class. And I don't

01:00:44.940 want to do some cardio thing. I want some takeaways, like actually teach some man how to throw a punch.

01:00:50.140 Cause guess what? No one knows how, right? That's like any dude, because they've watched movies,

01:00:55.900 thinks they could shoot a pistol at, you know, at 25 feet, anything. You can't, you can't,

01:01:01.900 why are they shooting so close? Go try it.

01:01:03.900 What happened? You grab the gun, you pull the trigger the first time and the noise of it would

01:01:07.660 startle you so much. We also have forgotten guns really loud. Yeah. So no, it sounds, it sounds good.

01:01:15.980 And I hope it didn't come across as like what you're doing is negative. I just, the perception

01:01:20.700 that's my question because that connotation, I get it. You know, for me coming from a strength

01:01:26.060 background, coming from powerlifting and all these types of things, you know, the woo thing seems such

01:01:31.980 to me. Like, come on, man, we're gonna hug each other over this. Is that what we're gonna do? Like,

01:01:39.580 I mean it, man. Like that just wasn't a thing for me. But then I also had realized at some point

01:01:45.660 that like, I don't have a real opinion as I've never tried it and leaned in. So why don't I shut

01:01:52.940 the fuck up until I try something? Same way I felt about picking up a self-help book for the first

01:01:59.100 time. I'm like, Oh, Tony Robbins or any of this other stuff. What, who are these people that need

01:02:03.660 this? Right. Because I'm turned off by Tony Robbins fans and I don't actually know shit about Tony

01:02:08.940 Robbins. Meanwhile, I don't know anything about Tony Robbins fans. Just for whatever reason,

01:02:14.780 I'm not into people who follow someone else that much. And so how about I pick up one book before

01:02:21.660 I make a decision and guess what? They're great. Not crazy. Yeah, they're great. All the self-help

01:02:27.500 stuff I've been incredibly wrong on. What's been really interesting is just to lean more into

01:02:32.700 everything I'm incorrect about, which has been almost everything, everything, right?

01:02:37.980 Right. Which alleviates a lot of hassle to realize I'm a moron and I'm just trying to try a lot of

01:02:45.620 things. Well, there's definitely less pressure, right? We put a lot of pressure on ourselves to

01:02:49.620 be a certain way when it's like, well, how about we just learn to be curious and open ourselves up

01:02:55.080 to new perspectives and just act like children do. Go back to the Bible, you know, we talk about putting

01:03:00.660 away childish things, but there are some things like the, the, that Bible talks about with regards

01:03:06.220 to the innocence of children and how that's a redeeming quality. So we should consider that.

01:03:12.480 That's play, right? That's simply being able to go try new things and learn and be exposed,

01:03:17.520 you know, jumping in jujitsu at 40, getting your ass kicked by a bunch of 130 pound people.

01:03:24.220 You know what I learned is I should probably be nice to everyone I meet.

01:03:27.640 Good call. Or at least leave them alone. Don't kill me.

01:03:32.940 The, the one that, the thing that stood out to me as you were saying that is, um, and I've made

01:03:37.620 this realization probably over the past three to four months is, and this is what a lot of guys deal

01:03:42.040 with is that the people around them, even if it's just on social media, we'll tell them you need to

01:03:47.980 be better, right? You need to be better at this thing. And then when they go to work on getting

01:03:53.360 better or say, I don't know a thing, then the same people will mock them and say, you idiot.

01:03:57.920 You should have known that all along. I don't know who those people are. They're terrible coaches.

01:04:02.320 They should, it's not the type of people I would want to work with. That's crazy. Yeah. Um, it's a

01:04:07.980 bummer if that's what you're choosing to follow. Cause I mean, again, you know, you've, you've chose to

01:04:14.260 follow those things, right? Like, I don't know if it's even necessarily following. It's just the,

01:04:18.640 well, you're choosing to be exposed to people that do that. Right. And if I'm going to be fully

01:04:24.400 accountable, then I've got to be in control of what I expose myself to media wise, content wise,

01:04:30.200 anything else. Yeah. You know, the fucking telephone works for me, right? Yeah. Same

01:04:36.480 thing with social media. People say that, ah, Facebook changed their algorithm or I see all

01:04:40.420 this bullshit and I'm like, stop subscribing to the bullshit. Like, yeah. So in that, you know,

01:04:45.680 in that weekend that we get people here, it's a really closed, you know, it's a closed container.

01:04:50.260 We, we all stay in the same house together. We share dinner every night. We're up here at the

01:04:54.600 gym and talk and kind of dive into stuff and lean into the breath work and, you know, get a chance

01:04:59.380 to be vulnerable, get a chance to, to share, you know, share with a group of people that just want

01:05:04.760 to see you get better. Like, that's it. Like, what if you surrounded yourself with people that are on the

01:05:09.780 same mission as you, instead of ever having to justify to someone in your life while wanting more than what

01:05:15.340 you have is a problem. Right. Fuck them. Right. They can go. Or also I can have no animosity toward them

01:05:25.260 and still pursue the thing that I'm interested in. They don't get a vote. They can't physically restrain

01:05:31.020 me from pursuing it. They can choose not to be my friend anymore. That's okay. I'll make new friends

01:05:36.420 doing this new thing I'm into. That's where I'm trying to get personally is get over the attitude of

01:05:43.220 F them and more of the attitude of indifference. Like, Hey, look, you have your reasons for acting

01:05:48.840 the way that you do. And, you know, I don't appreciate it, but I don't hold any ill will

01:05:52.620 against you. I'm just not interested in maintaining a relationship with you. So that level of indifference

01:05:56.700 has been very eyeopening for me. Well, I look at it like being intentional with my energy, right?

01:06:03.240 That every day I've got like a hundred percent of a battery to spend.

01:06:06.800 And I'm not giving 2% of my battery to some asshole in a car in traffic.

01:06:12.420 Nope. He doesn't care. Why waste it? You know, I will wave and move on and go on with my life

01:06:19.080 because I realized I can get to work when I want to. Right. You know, I can control those things.

01:06:24.860 Like I get to control where my energy goes and managing who I give access to my energy is another

01:06:31.640 bit of being accountable. You know, another one for me too. Like I don't, I don't operate out of

01:06:37.420 obligation. Like I don't feel it. Like I don't, I don't have to call my mom because she gave me

01:06:42.680 birth. I call and talk to my mom because I like Evelyn Vincent because I'm interested in the 70 year

01:06:48.920 old woman who I've got to spend most of my life with. Cause I think she's awesome. I don't owe her

01:06:53.460 that. You know, I don't owe having to go to family things. If I don't enjoy being there,

01:06:57.980 I can choose not to. There's consequences, but I'm not going to go spend time in a thing

01:07:03.560 that I'm not happy being at. I'm not going to attend those things. Right. Part of being fully

01:07:09.700 accountable to me is saying, I don't have to do shit. And so the other side of that coin of really

01:07:16.380 owning it is that means everywhere I am, I chose to be there. So don't be a fucking baby.

01:07:22.740 Hmm. Be there and be present or fucking go home. I like that. Cause there's a bit, a lot of events

01:07:29.560 where I've gone to and I've bitched and moaned and complained to people I'm with and I've made it

01:07:33.420 miserable. And yet I'm the one who chose to be there. I didn't have to be there. Issued you this

01:07:37.760 job. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Your dream you're chasing. That's good, man. I like that a lot.

01:07:44.340 But we, we bond so much over complaining and bitching that it's so natural to just lean into it.

01:07:49.920 You're like, Oh, and like those little micro things, right? Like that's still energy you're

01:07:55.460 putting out instead of it being abundant. Great. You know what it is that you get to talk for a

01:08:01.140 living? I mean, it's incredible. Like my, most people would kill for this job. Yeah. Anything

01:08:06.120 that goes around that totally acceptable to do. Yes. I remember roofing houses. That's not great.

01:08:10.760 Yeah. No, same pizza delivery landscape, moving rocks, military. It's a good noble work,

01:08:18.960 but that's harder work than I do. No. And, and guess what? Remember like when those other careers

01:08:24.860 ended, this one will too. Yeah. Yeah. And you'll transition to something else. Yeah. In the same

01:08:31.560 way, at some point my brand won't exist. I don't know when, but it won't. And at some point people

01:08:37.100 aren't going to try to pay to travel with us. Like, I don't know if that's a cool look for a

01:08:40.920 60 year old dude. I'm going to run the game as long as it'll let me go. But when that transition

01:08:45.980 comes, I would like to gracefully move into the next chapter of my life as I can, instead of holding

01:08:51.520 on to something that was, I don't want to do that anymore. That's powerful. Well, Matt, tell the guys

01:08:57.260 where to connect with you, man. How do they sync up with you? How do they learn more about not only

01:09:00.660 your events, um, your travel stuff that you do, obviously the apparel company, uh, not dead yet.

01:09:05.740 So what, what else, uh, can the guys do to connect with you? And not dead yet.com is kind of a hub

01:09:11.000 for everything. And then, uh, IndieWideLife.com is the coaching group mentorship. What is it called?

01:09:16.760 IndieWide. Is that what you said? IndieWide. So it's not dead yet life. Okay. Got it. Yep. Um,

01:09:21.580 and that's the coaching group and that's kind of helping people build this accountability in their life

01:09:25.640 and realizing what freedom really comes from taking accountability and being able to make this

01:09:31.120 change to how you feel that, you know, something has to change, but that fear has got you trapped.

01:09:39.520 You know, we can get rid of that and we can put a plan in place and we can get you moving toward

01:09:44.060 progress about something you're fucking interested in. There's work to be done, but you got to let go

01:09:50.080 of that. And so helping people do that's been awesome. You know, I mean, man, I struggled with it

01:09:55.280 when I came out of getting hurt, you know, when sports ended, when anything else took over.

01:09:59.840 And so being able to transition from chapter to chapter and not being stuck, I think is a huge

01:10:03.940 human skill. Um, we host retreats. I host two a year, these men's retreats. The next one's in

01:10:09.140 October. It's a weekend here in St. Louis. And, uh, like I said, it's all all inclusive. I think we

01:10:14.240 have six spots left open. We only do it with 10 people. And I really like trying to keep it intimate.

01:10:18.960 That way we have enough time for one-on-one and really getting into deep discussion. We host an open

01:10:24.940 house here at my gym every Sunday from 10 to two called Sunday service. And it's a opportunity

01:10:30.460 for people to come in, train hot, cold. We don't charge anything. It's just kind of a,

01:10:35.260 come be part of a community. If people are interested in getting better this day and not

01:10:38.460 sitting around drinking now it's cannabis friendly. So whatever that means to anyone else, but, um,

01:10:45.900 uh, no one else gets a vote in here. That's right. If you don't like it, you don't,

01:10:50.620 you don't have to come. That's right. That's cool. Exactly. I'm good with that. Um, yeah,

01:10:57.500 so that's, that's kind of all of it, man. If anyone needs anything that I can help with,

01:11:01.420 uh, shoot me an email, Matt at mattvincent.net. Excellent, man. We'll sync it all up. So the

01:11:05.740 guys know where to go. I'm looking forward to getting to know you better. Like I said,

01:11:07.980 this is a conversation that I don't think we see eye to eye exactly a hundred percent on everything,

01:11:11.580 but I'm glad, like, I'm really grateful actually. I don't want to be surprised.

01:11:16.060 You can challenge me on some things. I'm like, Hmm. Cause I took notes. I'm like,

01:11:21.260 I'm sure vice versa deeper. Yeah. Hopefully that's the idea. Why wouldn't it? Are you going

01:11:26.780 to be around the summer strong? Uh, no, not this year. I'll be traveling. I've got a lot of hunts

01:11:31.100 and things like that planned. So, uh, winter strong. I make it to just about every year for guys who don't

01:11:35.980 know what that is. Sore next winter strong and summer strong, definitely check out both events.

01:11:40.220 They're incredible. Never done winter. Oh, you need to go. I know. I, I know. I know.

01:11:44.860 Yeah. Get out there, man. That's, that's, that's good people out there. It's a great event.

01:11:49.740 Obviously anytime you're surrounded by Bert and his friends, like those are good people. So you can't,

01:11:54.540 you can't go wrong. Yeah, man. I've been so happy to know those guys for as long as I have. I mean,

01:11:59.020 it's gone on 2007. Is that right? He's, he's a thrower too. Is that how you guys did Highland games and

01:12:08.140 then was a thrower in college. And so I was road tripping. I was going to Columbia quite a bit for

01:12:14.780 work in my old life, doing a outside sales work in a petrochemical industry. They had a couple

01:12:19.740 refineries around there. And so I would go and post up in Columbia so that I could go train at

01:12:24.300 Sorenex's headquarters three days of the week while I was there. That's just a place to train, man,

01:12:28.940 right there. And like, this was back then. So like, it's just this one room with Burt and G and pops.

01:12:35.100 It was the only different today. Yeah. Totally different. Right. And so like,

01:12:39.100 I got to see a lot of that evolution and I've known Burt ever since, man.

01:12:45.420 Yeah. Good people. All right, brother. We're going to sync everything up again. Appreciate you. Thanks

01:12:49.820 for the feedback and information today. I know that's going to resonate with a lot of guys.

01:12:52.460 Yeah, dude. Thank you so much. We'll get you on swap on shows too. I'd love to,

01:12:56.300 I'd love to chat with you more. Absolutely. Let's do it.

01:13:00.060 All right, you guys, there's the conversation with Matt Vincent. I told you one, that one was going to be an

01:13:04.060 interesting one. We were all over the place. We talked about a lot of different subjects,

01:13:08.140 a few of which we did not agree on, but that's the value in having these conversations. I'm just

01:13:13.340 not interested anymore in having 100% of my conversations be with people that I agree on

01:13:19.980 100% of the issues with. I want, I want guys that are going to give me a new perspective that are going

01:13:25.980 to help me consider things that I've never seen before. You know, sometimes I do that and people will

01:13:30.060 say, well, you know, that guy's wrong because of X, Y, and Z. And I can't believe you gave this

01:13:33.820 person a platform and that person a platform. Guys, that's not what this is about. This is

01:13:38.060 about listening to what other people have to share and then taking what you want, extracting the

01:13:43.420 value, extracting the information that you think will serve you and then leaving the rest. And all

01:13:47.740 of us are capable as grown men of discerning what we think will serve us well and what might hinder us.

01:13:54.380 So I hope you were open to some ideas and thoughts, and maybe you see the value in both of our

01:14:01.100 our sides on some of those things that we didn't see eye to eye on, or maybe you fall completely

01:14:05.340 outside of the realm of what we talked about or somewhere in between. But again, this is to

01:14:09.420 enlighten and expand and open our eyes and hearts and minds to what is possible. So make sure to

01:14:15.500 connect with Matt on the, on the Instagrams or other social media places, check out not dead yet

01:14:22.220 and let him know if you would take a screenshot, tag him on it. Matthew P. Vincent on Instagram and

01:14:27.660 at Ryan Mickler on Instagram. That's where I am most active. He's very active there as well.

01:14:32.300 Let us know what you thought about the show. Tell him, let him know you heard him here.

01:14:36.140 Take a screenshot, tag us, share it with your friends. And again, that goes back to what we

01:14:40.300 were saying earlier is share, get the word out. Let's help us all become better men. All right,

01:14:45.900 you guys, we'll be back tomorrow. Until then, go out there, take action, become the man you are meant to be.

01:14:51.340 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:14:55.900 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

MATTHEW VINCENT ｜ You're Not Dead Yet

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