Order of Man - Men Are Built： Live From the Men's Forge

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:04.980 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:10.420 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.220 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.760 you can call yourself a man. Hey, look, I'm really excited you're out here. I thought this would be

00:00:29.260 good opportunity to get Dwayne and Mary

00:00:31.000 and myself to answer some of your

00:00:33.220 questions. I think my

00:00:35.280 Ask Me Thing is one of my favorite

00:00:37.100 segments of the podcast that we do

00:00:38.700 because I really care about what you guys think.

00:00:41.980 I like the sound of my own voice

00:00:43.480 so I guess I can answer those questions

00:00:45.240 for you. I don't always get it right. I don't know

00:00:47.340 but I enjoy it so I'm looking forward

00:00:49.380 to doing this today. We did have

00:00:51.340 a question. This one came in anonymously

00:00:53.300 so I'll just read this one but we're going to have the

00:00:55.340 guys here give

00:00:57.520 us their questions in real time, but I want to read this one. So here it is. After hearing many

00:01:02.420 of the speakers connecting with several of the men here at The Forge and taking the time to

00:01:07.140 reflect, I decided to land my mission statement on transforming my family tree from one of shame,

00:01:13.160 weakness, scarcity, and embarrassment to one of abundance, pride, strength, and integrity.

00:01:19.140 How do I communicate this to those closest to me, like my wife and kids, without taking away

00:01:24.120 be sacrifices and good intentions of those before me as I know they did the best they could with

00:01:29.060 what they had and that I wouldn't be the man I am today without my own, without my own, my parents

00:01:36.460 and grandparents past experiences or do I ever need to communicate this? Should I simply let my

00:01:43.180 actions do the talking? I really like this question. I wanted to share just a quick story. I'll be as

00:01:48.860 brief as possible. So my dad died about eight years ago and I had a lot of contention and

00:01:56.260 animosity towards him when he died and I missed seeing him pass away in the hospital by 30

00:02:01.500 minutes, literally 30 minutes. I was driving from Utah to California and my mom called

00:02:08.160 30 minutes out and said, where are you? I said, I'll be there in 30 minutes. She said,

00:02:12.660 okay. And I got to the hospital and I could see him with the look on her face and I had

00:02:17.960 pretty good idea that he had passed away and I went to his room and I saw him there and

00:02:22.260 it was hard to it was hard to forgive him up until that moment and in those moments

00:02:28.900 and over the years that have followed I found a lot of grace for him and I think like whoever

00:02:32.900 wrote this note he did the best he could with what he had that's absolutely true and over

00:02:40.360 the years I found a lot of grace for how he showed up but I also see a lot of myself in

00:02:44.820 him. And so even though there might be a family legacy that you're not entirely proud of,

00:02:49.840 I do think that that has led you to this event that has led you to your wife, that partially

00:02:58.260 that has led you to having the kids, and it has led you to want to change your family

00:03:02.460 legacy. And I think it's okay to acknowledge that. So I don't think it's at odds to feel

00:03:08.140 contention or frustration or shame around wanting to change that and still honor the

00:03:13.220 fact that maybe the way your family was was exactly who you needed them to be even if they

00:03:18.760 weren't perfect or model family but I would definitely another part of this question and I

00:03:24.040 would say this I would definitely communicate with my wife and my kids about what wants to

00:03:28.860 change and I would get them involved in the process my friend on the ask me anything that

00:03:33.900 I do Kip Sorensen often talks a lot about getting commitment versus compliance compliance is just

00:03:41.020 getting people to do what you tell them to do and commitment is getting people to buy in so if you

00:03:46.500 want your family your wife and your kids to be bought in then you need to sit down with them

00:03:49.860 and say hey here's what I want to do here's what I'm learning here's how I'd like to show up but I

00:03:53.240 also want you to be included in this process what's important to you what would be important

00:03:58.540 that we start doing as a family what do we stand for what are our values what is our family code

00:04:03.340 or creed and get them involved in the process so definitely communicate with them and I think you

00:04:08.700 can honor the fact that your family wasn't perfect, and maybe that's exactly what you

00:04:12.600 needed. What do you guys want to jump in? I echo a lot of what Ryan says, and I'll share

00:04:18.920 a story of mine as well, which is I came from a background of not just one negative father

00:04:25.380 figure, but several that came into my life. And one of the things that really tripped

00:04:31.120 me up before I started Dad Edge was I told myself just internally that I am not going

00:04:37.580 to repeat these patterns and the exact thing that I did was I started repeating

00:04:43.040 those patterns what we focus on grows what we focus on expands I never brought

00:04:47.660 my family into that decision which meant I really had no one to hold me

00:04:52.280 accountable and I really didn't even have have any public standards public

00:04:56.780 meaning not just me but my wife and my four boys and once I brought them into

00:05:01.740 that vision, things started to change. Not every day is perfect. There's still absolutely

00:05:08.580 messy days. But men who come from horrific childhoods, as it relates to a father, you

00:05:16.540 know, or a father figure, me personally, I was abused horribly as a kid and abandoned

00:05:23.760 by my biological father, not once, but twice. And the one thing I told myself is, I'm going

00:05:30.400 to do this differently. But being that example, I think is most important. Bringing your family

00:05:37.460 into it is most important. But here's the final thing that I'll say that might be a

00:05:40.640 little different. People do the best they can with what they have. My own father has

00:05:48.160 told me repeatedly, if there was a Dadage Alliance, if there was an Iron Council, if

00:05:53.000 there was something like that, I might have made some very different decisions. And I

00:06:00.080 see that time and time again, where men have, they have a choice. We have a choice. A lot

00:06:05.900 of us think that we are a victim to whatever childhood we had, but we absolutely have a

00:06:10.820 choice. We can either break that pattern or we can continue it, right? But also the

00:06:17.340 forgiveness piece. People did the best they could with what they had. And one thing I

00:06:21.800 do know, to give all these father figure graces in my life, and there was five of them, is

00:06:27.600 that they too came from traumatic backgrounds.

00:06:31.080 My father came from a very traumatic, abused background, and I know he probably did the

00:06:37.000 best he could with what he had.

00:06:38.820 And the good thing about forgiveness is it's not only a gift for the other person, it's

00:06:43.320 a gift for us.

00:06:45.300 It truly is a gift for us.

00:06:46.980 It was once said that not forgiving someone is like drinking poison in the hope that they

00:06:51.560 feel it. But unfortunately, the people that don't forgive, we're the only ones that feel

00:06:56.920 that. So forgiveness, I think, is key too. Awesome. All right, let's go up here. And

00:07:02.840 as you guys go, say your name. If you're comfortable saying your name, because this

00:07:06.040 will go out, but say your name and then share that.

00:07:13.440 Just a little bit added to that. I don't agree with everything they said, but to boil

00:07:18.600 down to the actual basic original question. Would I set my wife and kid down and say this is my

00:07:25.140 decision and this is why I have made this decision and this is where we're going? It depends on the

00:07:31.140 dynamics of the family and it depends on how old the child is. If the child is not aware of your bad

00:07:37.320 history or your father's bad history or your grandfather's bad history, I would not set a

00:07:44.200 five-year-old down who's innocent and all that and say, this is all the bad stuff that

00:07:48.160 happened, and this is what we're going to do because of it.

00:07:52.420 I wouldn't do that to a child. I would just lead by example.

00:07:56.660 I would set out, if we're going to set up a code for the family, I'd set up a code for

00:08:00.500 the family. They don't need to know the ugly history of why we need a code for the family.

00:08:05.320 Don't add more ugly burden

00:08:07.940 to your children than they already carry or will have to carry

00:08:12.120 that you don't have any choice in.

00:08:17.260 My name is Richard.

00:08:19.540 Yesterday we got to hear from Dwayne,

00:08:23.120 and I wanted everyone else to come here.

00:08:25.400 So the question is,

00:08:27.180 what does it truly mean that humanity was created in the image of God,

00:08:30.740 and how should it shape the way we understand ourselves,

00:08:33.680 others, and our purpose and identity?

00:08:35.980 I also have a second question,

00:08:37.660 and it's for the end of the podcast, if time permits.

00:08:40.260 I'd love to hear your prayer story again.

00:08:42.120 I believe in Genesis chapter 2

00:08:47.020 when the scripture says

00:08:47.940 God said let us make man

00:08:50.120 in our image

00:08:51.140 he's speaking of plurality

00:08:53.060 scripture speaks in several other places

00:08:55.620 of a Godhead

00:08:57.140 people debate and butt heads about

00:08:59.380 Trinity is a trinity is a

00:09:01.100 whatever you want to call it

00:09:02.260 but there is in other places in scripture

00:09:04.700 there are three that bear record in heaven

00:09:07.520 the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost

00:09:09.520 and these three are one

00:09:11.740 I believe when God said, let us make man in our image, he created man as a trinity, just like he is.

00:09:19.060 We are a body, a soul, and a spirit.

00:09:22.640 One of the speakers actually touched on this very clear yesterday from another direction, and it's very true.

00:09:31.200 We are a body, a soul, and a spirit, and a lot of what men do today, they'll focus on one part of the trinity.

00:09:36.760 alright, they'll go to the gym

00:09:39.060 they'll eat right, they'll get super fit

00:09:40.960 they'll do jiu-jitsu, they'll run

00:09:43.260 marathons, and they have that

00:09:45.340 body, that physical part of their trinity

00:09:47.400 they've got that clipped

00:09:48.960 but they ignore the

00:09:51.280 spiritual, and they ignore

00:09:53.200 the soul, so they're actually only

00:09:55.140 a third of the man they're supposed to be

00:09:56.920 or you've got some men

00:09:58.820 who are all about

00:10:00.140 art and music

00:10:03.320 and

00:10:03.880 fashion, sorry Tanner

00:10:06.600 they're all about that side of stuff 1.00

00:10:10.820 but they never take care of your body

00:10:12.420 they never take care of their physical

00:10:14.380 and they sure are never going

00:10:16.980 to explore their relationship

00:10:18.880 with God they're only a third of the man

00:10:20.560 God intended them to be

00:10:21.800 why do we have so many 0.96

00:10:24.520 ugly

00:10:27.020 mean 0.99

00:10:28.620 harsh spirited 1.00

00:10:30.520 arrogant 0.99

00:10:31.600 ministers 0.95

00:10:34.000 in all areas of faith today

00:10:36.340 because they have focused on the spiritual

00:10:40.560 and they have ignored the physical and the soul.

00:10:44.960 They don't appreciate art.

00:10:46.400 They don't appreciate poetry.

00:10:48.300 They don't appreciate sculpture.

00:10:50.220 They don't appreciate nature. 0.97

00:10:53.740 And they darn sure don't go for a walk 0.96

00:10:56.040 and put down that piece of fried chicken. 1.00

00:10:57.960 They don't take care of their body. 0.87

00:10:59.020 So they're only a third of a man.

00:11:01.960 But if you look in the Bible, God called David.

00:11:05.160 Now think about David.

00:11:06.080 If you know your Bible at all, King David, a man after God's own heart.

00:11:10.720 We said, well, we know what David did with Bathsheba and Uriah and all that.

00:11:14.400 But God said, that's a man after my own heart.

00:11:17.980 David was a great warrior.

00:11:19.860 David was not a little toehead, big-eyed child when he killed Goliath.

00:11:24.540 He was a warrior.

00:11:25.860 And he went out to war with the Philistines.

00:11:27.860 He was a renowned warrior.

00:11:29.760 He was also a poet.

00:11:31.600 He wrote Psalms, some of the most beautiful poetry that humankind has ever written.

00:11:36.080 David wrote it. And he was a man who prayed and wept and sang to God and searched with everything he had for his God. He was deeply, totally, completely sold out to all three parts of who he was. And God said, that is what I pictured and intended for a man to be from the start. That is a man after my heart.

00:11:56.880 so I encourage men to

00:12:00.520 the soul is the part of you that reacts to the world

00:12:04.660 to the art, to the music, to nature, to beauty

00:12:07.180 the spirit is the part that reacts to God

00:12:09.920 and the physical is the part that reacts to yourself

00:12:12.220 find the holes in your trinity

00:12:15.200 and start showing them

00:12:16.720 excellent, alright, what do we got?

00:12:22.220 hey, what do we got?

00:12:22.740 Hey, I'm Briden, and you're asking how you can be consistent with the standards you've created?

00:12:29.080 So can I ask, as you've been here in the last two or three days,

00:12:33.440 are there some things that you want to start doing at home that you maybe haven't been doing before you got here?

00:12:37.740 Devotions and before I go to school every day.

00:12:41.640 You know, when I was, I'm going to see if I can make this apply,

00:12:45.680 but when I was starting a brand new financial planning career,

00:12:49.240 I had this goal that I was just going to make ten phone calls per day.

00:12:52.740 And I knew, just based on the numbers that I had, that if I just made 10 sales calls per day, then I would hit my sales goals.

00:13:00.100 And I made it a commitment that I never failed that I would do 10 sales calls per day.

00:13:05.780 And there were certain days where, you know, I was tired and maybe I had a bad day or maybe, you know, I lost a client or something like that.

00:13:13.520 And I still had two or three calls I needed to make.

00:13:16.480 But guess what?

00:13:17.200 I didn't go home until those two or three calls were made.

00:13:20.540 okay so what I did is I had a sheet of paper that I created in Excel and it had

00:13:26.420 the number of calls that I made every day it's like Monday Tuesday Wednesday

00:13:29.600 all the way through Sunday or Friday and I had ten check boxes and then it was

00:13:35.060 how many people I reached and how many meetings that I got from those calls and

00:13:38.840 I would literally just check them with a pen check check check check and I did

00:13:43.880 not do anything to go home until I got those done so what I would say for you

00:13:48.380 For Brayden, right?

00:13:49.800 Yes.

00:13:50.200 Yeah, so Brayden, what I would do for you is I would come up with a checklist and have your dad help you out with this and write down what I would call the non-negotiables.

00:13:57.920 So working out, scripture study, devotional time, those other things that you want to do, make those non-negotiables and then Monday through Sunday and just literally check them off because there's something really powerful when you start writing those things down and you check them off and you see and then you can start tallying up how many days in a row and you can make it a game.

00:14:18.380 so at first you got five days in a row now you're 10 days in a row now you're 30 days and maybe on

00:14:23.560 day 31 you slip and you mess up and you start over you're like cool can I do better than 30 days yeah

00:14:28.600 I think you can and you get back on the horse but systems is what you need and you can create a

00:14:33.360 really simple system for that okay thank you does that make sense yeah you guys have anything to add

00:14:38.600 How old are you?

00:14:40.860 14.

00:14:43.860 I just want to commend you for a minute and just say, you know, I know a lot of us at 14 years old, this wasn't even on our radar.

00:14:51.140 But I also wanted to acknowledge something that Dwayne said and what he shared in the last question about the body, the soul, and the spirit.

00:14:59.180 I told him, I spent three hours with him yesterday, and that point hit so deeply to me.

00:15:06.560 The only thing that I would add to that is do something for your soul.

00:15:09.920 So you've got the spirit covered with your devotion.

00:15:12.560 You have the body covered with the workouts.

00:15:15.060 The only thing I would add is, and Dwayne used the term renaissance man,

00:15:19.300 read a book that you wouldn't otherwise read.

00:15:21.920 You know, go look at some art or listen to music that you otherwise wouldn't.

00:15:25.660 Broaden your horizons no matter what your age group is doing

00:15:28.720 because you will just become a more well-rounded man.

00:15:31.680 That's really the only thing I want to add.

00:15:33.040 but I also, again, just 14 years old.

00:15:35.220 What an incredible question, man.

00:15:36.840 Thank you.

00:15:42.160 Hey, I'm Joe.

00:15:43.940 So at work, I'm part of a four-man crew.

00:15:47.340 We work pretty much really remotely.

00:15:49.760 The man in charge does not really endorse communication between us

00:15:53.740 and wants us going directly to him.

00:15:55.780 He's set to retire next month,

00:15:57.240 and I'm very interested in creating some communication

00:16:00.200 and team-building practices between the rest of the crew

00:16:03.720 do creates a better communication and camaraderie.

00:16:08.200 How do I go ahead and endorse this to guys

00:16:10.240 that don't seem too active, like really too social?

00:16:13.660 I'd like to try to use this time to turn over a new leaf

00:16:17.520 within the team.

00:16:22.520 So you said you're the owner of the organization.

00:16:25.720 Is it real keen on that, though, it sounds like?

00:16:28.260 the chief of the department wants us going directly to him and you want to go around that

00:16:33.060 or you want to know no once you retire i want us to be more collaborative i don't know that you

00:16:37.700 need to wait but what i would consider is that he's got a reason for that it's probably it might

00:16:43.780 be ego right i mean that's immediately what goes to mind for me control ego authority those types

00:16:49.540 of things i would try to figure out what it is that he that he wants what would be a win for him

00:16:55.460 Is it, as he steps away, is it increased revenue, is it more freedom and flexibility with his

00:17:01.780 time, and maybe sit down depending on the relationship you have with that chief, that

00:17:06.060 supervisor, and really try to get into his world about what would be a win for him.

00:17:11.620 Because if you can do that, then you can start to formulate an idea for how the communication

00:17:18.160 between the departments would actually enhance whatever it is he's after.

00:17:22.320 And the other thing that you might be able to do is kind of ease into this where it's not just communication that you guys are having

00:17:27.780 Invite him into that communication as well. So now maybe he's involved and it sounds like that expression says you're going to be involved.

00:17:34.440 He has said no. I've tried to zoom with him. He's like, I don't know where I'm going to be, but I don't want to keep calling you up with him.

00:17:38.900 You don't want to let him say that.

00:17:40.200 I don't want to keep pushing back. I've tried this months ago. I said, can we zoom like once a week for 50 minutes?

00:17:44.540 And the guy, I don't like that now. He's retiring next month. I'm like, I'm kind of just waiting him out and try to grab the other guy's napkin and say,

00:17:51.360 but it's not a new thing, guys, a new one.

00:17:53.840 Got it.

00:17:54.840 Okay, so in that case, what I might suggest then

00:17:57.980 is to start having these conversations verbally

00:18:01.840 with the guys in the same kind of conversation.

00:18:04.700 Hey, what do you guys want out of your career?

00:18:06.520 What would make this a more meaningful work environment?

00:18:08.660 How could we be more successful?

00:18:10.080 How could we make more money?

00:18:11.240 How could we get the project done faster

00:18:13.240 and start having this communication verbally

00:18:15.600 where you may not be able to have it professionally,

00:18:18.960 if you will, because that way,

00:18:20.440 when that time comes in the next month,

00:18:22.580 you've already built some of the foundation

00:18:24.060 and the trust and credibility with these guys.

00:18:26.020 But you might flank a little bit

00:18:27.380 and not talk so much about work

00:18:28.940 and just get more involved in these guys' lives

00:18:31.240 and that might help transition

00:18:33.120 to something more professional.

00:18:34.440 Did you have something, Dwayne?

00:18:35.480 I thought you had something.

00:18:37.400 Does that help, Joe, at all?

00:18:38.520 Thank you.

00:18:39.260 What I would say, just lean in

00:18:41.100 and getting to know them

00:18:41.900 and building up trust and credibility

00:18:44.160 and influence with them.

00:18:45.580 That way, when the time comes,

00:18:46.820 I think that transition will be a lot easier.

00:18:49.080 Appreciate it.

00:18:49.620 Thanks, Joe.

00:18:50.000 So what's the line between healthy vulnerability with your spouse and using

00:19:04.580 them as an emotional dumping ground and how do you recognize that difference we

00:19:12.980 talked earlier, right? We don't like the word vulnerable. Am I right? Vulnerable, this is synonymous with weak. Okay. But we talk, women say, women say that they want you to be emotional. They don't. They are not telling the truth. They're not being deliberately deceitful. They're being women.

00:19:42.980 Okay, they don't want you to be emotional, but they do want you to be tender.

00:19:52.800 Emotion, vulnerable emotion is weakness.

00:19:59.580 And you are, or you darn sure better be, your wife's strength.

00:20:04.460 Not just her physical strength, but her spiritual strength and her emotional strength.

00:20:08.220 And so if you keep showing up vulnerable, weak, emotionally, then you're undermining her trust in your strength.

00:20:21.580 And what she thought she wanted, she didn't want.

00:20:25.580 Okay.

00:20:25.840 So, as I suggested to him, when your child asks for a cookie and you give them a sweet potato, all right, with butter and cinnamon on it, you didn't give them what they asked for, but you gave them something that they really like.

00:20:47.580 So when your wife asks for emotional vulnerability, give her tenderness.

00:20:53.860 Give her gentleness.

00:20:56.080 Give her attention.

00:20:58.640 Okay?

00:20:59.640 It still goes a long way, but it doesn't undermine a strong man who can be tender.

00:21:06.560 All right?

00:21:07.040 That is, that's something pretty special today.

00:21:09.420 and there were times she'll recognize that without you cutting your knees out from under you

00:21:15.220 and showing her all this vulnerability that she really don't want to see.

00:21:22.780 Now that's, I'm not garb, but that's a rule according to Cowboys, so you guys take it.

00:21:29.300 I wholeheartedly agree with that.

00:21:31.620 I want you to imagine a scenario.

00:21:33.160 You're a medieval king, and you're in charge of this castle and this fortification,

00:21:38.160 And there's this huge wall around this castle.

00:21:41.620 And as you do because you want to keep your people protected, you send out workers and you go out and inspect the wall periodically yourself because there's boring tribes and villages and kingdoms that want to take what you have.

00:21:53.280 And so you go out and you find in the east side of your kingdom and your fortification a vulnerability in the wall in the truest sense of the word, which is what?

00:22:02.640 A weakness in the wall.

00:22:04.560 There's a structural integrity issue in the wall.

00:22:07.020 and maybe some rocks are falling apart

00:22:09.720 and it's eroding and there's a big gaping hole

00:22:11.980 in that wall

00:22:13.100 and you decide

00:22:15.540 that you're going to go talk to your wife

00:22:17.380 your queen and you say

00:22:19.340 hey, we found a big hole

00:22:21.980 in the wall and we don't know what to do about it 0.99

00:22:24.220 and there's a tribe that's coming 0.96

00:22:25.920 to attack us, a neighboring kingdom

00:22:27.680 that's coming to take what we have 0.99

00:22:29.240 and I just wanted to let you know

00:22:31.000 there's nothing we can do about it

00:22:34.060 and that wall's there

00:22:36.280 and I just want to brace you for what's about to happen.

00:22:38.920 Is that going to foster trust with your wife

00:22:42.200 or is that going to scare the daylights out of her

00:22:44.540 and undermine who you are as a king of your castle?

00:22:48.820 Undermine, right?

00:22:50.060 Now let me give you a different scenario.

00:22:51.520 Same scenario, different way of handling.

00:22:54.140 Hey, I want to let you know we found a vulnerability in the wall.

00:22:58.460 It's eroding, there's a big hole,

00:23:00.680 but I've got the blacksmiths on it.

00:23:02.540 I've got the masons building bricks.

00:23:05.280 We're going to go in.

00:23:06.020 We're going to fortify that.

00:23:07.060 In the meantime, we're going to put extra guard there to protect that area.

00:23:10.940 And we're going to make sure that whatever happens, it's protected until we're able to shore that back up.

00:23:16.080 That's going to foster trust because she's going to recognize that you know what's going on,

00:23:21.660 that you're aware of what's happening in your kingdom, and that you're willing to do something about it.

00:23:25.720 So how that translates into your life is that when you have a bad day at work or maybe you lost a big client or revenue dips,

00:23:34.880 or you're being sued, or you got in a car accident, or any number of things that could happen,

00:23:40.820 she wants to know that you're aware of what's going on in your universe

00:23:44.320 and also giving her a plan of what you're going to do about it.

00:23:50.500 And that's what most men miss, is they think, because of the way vulnerability is used,

00:23:54.780 that they just need to come dump all of their weight baggage onto their wife. 0.99

00:23:58.840 That's not her responsibility. That's yours. 1.00

00:24:01.740 Hers is to make things beautiful and lovely.

00:24:03.640 yours is to make sure that these are protected and cared for and so you come

00:24:08.320 with a plan you say hey babe you know what I'll let you know rough day at the

00:24:11.820 office today but I've got a plan and here's what I'm gonna do and I wanted to

00:24:14.920 let you know if I seem a little off that's what's going on but it'll be fine

00:24:18.400 tomorrow and I'm gonna make sure it is that to me is the difference that's a

00:24:22.060 much more effective way to talk with your wife about what's going on in the

00:24:25.360 world I'd like to make one other comment on that not be fast I've gone to the

00:24:31.960 other extreme of this where I don't bring my wife into anything and she

00:24:36.020 takes that as complete total disconnect because then they start to tell

00:24:39.580 themselves a story about what's going on it almost cost me my marriage ten years

00:24:42.880 ago and I was in my mind I was being protective and her mind actually I was

00:24:47.860 being disconnected this might not work for everybody but it works for us it's

00:24:52.700 a lever that I pull and I don't do it very often but my wife and I call it

00:24:56.500 shitty first draft emotions and basically what that means is it's not

00:25:01.300 me being emotional it's me getting clarity through just expressing some

00:25:06.640 thoughts around it and also what Brian said is adding in those solutions as

00:25:10.900 well so sometimes there are so many ping-pong balls in a man's brain right

00:25:15.240 of the things that we're facing the things we're battling my wife is 0.95

00:25:18.580 actually wired pretty darn well for this so part of our relationship I do it a 0.61

00:25:22.960 lot less than she does but every now and again I'd say probably once or twice a

00:25:27.400 season hey I have some shitty first draft emotions for you and then she's

00:25:31.480 really me talking out loud just in the same tonality that I'm talking to you

00:25:34.840 right now I'm not up I'm not down I'm not crying I'm not anything like that

00:25:39.580 it's me literally talking out loud my wife you know if we were playing like

00:25:43.300 verbal tennis she's really good at like taking those thoughts and then bring

00:25:47.020 them back and we get clarity together but that is something that does work for 0.93

00:25:50.800 this. Thank you. Hi, my name is Matt. My question involves my wife. There are times when she

00:26:04.720 is offended or hurt relationally, not by me, and she comes to me and talks to me about

00:26:12.580 it, and I tend to not think it's a big deal, or I can see the other person's perspective.

00:26:24.800 And it makes her feel that I am not on her side.

00:26:29.880 So how can I, when I think she might be wrong, show her a different perspective while still

00:26:41.000 showing that I am on her side?

00:26:43.380 And also, how can I be a fierce protector

00:26:45.960 of her relationally and emotionally?

00:26:50.680 That's a great question.

00:26:52.300 I'd love to take that one.

00:26:54.620 So don't do what I did when I first got married.

00:26:56.980 That's not that big of a deal.

00:26:58.220 Why are you so upset?

00:27:00.020 Calm down.

00:27:01.720 You're fine.

00:27:03.120 That's exactly what not to do.

00:27:04.780 So I definitely made those mistakes.

00:27:08.480 You know, Chris Voss,

00:27:10.000 He used to be the chief hostage negotiator for the FBI.

00:27:13.280 And I love his book, Never Split the Difference.

00:27:15.680 But he's got this term that I think is really masculine.

00:27:18.040 I love it.

00:27:18.400 It's called tactical empathy.

00:27:20.320 Empathy, and Chris talks about empathy.

00:27:22.320 Empathy does not mean agreement.

00:27:24.280 It does not mean agreement, right?

00:27:25.840 And empathy is very different than sympathy.

00:27:29.200 Sympathy is like, I'm so sorry that it happened to you.

00:27:31.760 Where the person is up here and the person who's having a problem is down here.

00:27:34.660 It's kind of like somebody passed his way.

00:27:36.000 I'm so sorry that it happened to you.

00:27:37.220 And the person who's experiencing that loss, it kind of feels crappy.

00:27:43.700 But empathy is different.

00:27:45.200 Empathy is like, I understand.

00:27:47.400 If I was in your situation, I'd probably feel the same way.

00:27:50.520 If I disagree with my wife, what I'll do, and a lot of the guys in the Alliance know

00:27:55.660 our skill around what's called generative questions, right?

00:27:58.860 Which is, I'll ask her a question of like, so if it's relational within like the friend

00:28:03.340 group or something like that, I would just be like, hey, Jess, just out of curiosity,

00:28:08.440 how do you think Jill is perceiving this? 0.82

00:28:12.100 Because how people operate makes total sense to them.

00:28:16.000 It might not make sense to us, but it makes total sense to them.

00:28:19.180 And instead of me doing more telling, we have to sit down and listen, but I'll ask a question

00:28:24.040 just to get her to think about the perspective just a little different.

00:28:27.520 Just a quick story that this just happened.

00:28:29.380 my wife's had a friend my wife had a friend who dad died and she wasn't close to her and she's

00:28:34.340 like I don't really think I should go to the funeral I was like tell me about that she's like

00:28:37.400 why didn't I didn't know her dad I was like yeah I get that I was like I asked permission I said

00:28:42.980 hey do you mind if I give you a perspective on this and I'm gonna put this in my way she's like

00:28:46.120 yeah I said I did the same thing about 20 years ago to a friend of mine his dad died and he gave

00:28:51.800 me a really good talking to that I needed to hear and I'll never forget it he sat me down and he

00:28:57.220 said why didn't you come to my dad's funeral this is again like 20 years ago

00:29:00.520 and I said I'm sorry man I didn't really know your dad he goes Larry let me tell

00:29:05.340 you something the funeral is not for the person who passed away it's for the

00:29:10.480 people who are living through it I shared that with my wife and she welcomed

00:29:14.680 that and she went to the funeral so I think there are different ways you can

00:29:18.540 do it sometimes you can ask permission ask a better question to get them

00:29:21.640 thinking differently but also most importantly validating their feelings

00:29:25.780 you don't have to agree with it but you can validate and understand why they

00:29:30.080 might be feeling what they're feeling. The other thing I would add to that is you

00:29:37.700 mentioned briefly in the beginning to you it's not that big a deal sometimes

00:29:43.980 that's one of the things we have to understand we have to learn to see

00:29:50.080 things at the level of importance it is for them, whoever we're talking to. Now, if the young, you know, the young man who spoke a little bit ago, looked like about 14, okay? Now, he came to me at 14, and there was a girl in school that he was really sweet on, and he asked her the problem, and she said no, and he's like, he would be thoroughly

00:30:19.520 heartbroken I mean just crushed and so internally for me at 60 years old all

00:30:28.100 I've been through I'm like I'm thinking son you just wait you just wait what the

00:30:34.520 world has wait for you ahead but what I need to do is I need to say I need to see

00:30:40.400 this as if I was his age and when I went through this so when the wife comes in

00:30:46.580 and she's got this something to her that's really big,

00:30:49.560 we can't look at it as we would look at it,

00:30:54.020 as what it would mean to us.

00:30:56.380 You know, if you've got a baby and that baby's learning to walk

00:30:58.980 and he's targeting across the kitchen floor and wobbling in a diaper

00:31:02.040 and all of a sudden it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, 0.99

00:31:03.980 and he sits down hard on his butt. 0.98

00:31:06.940 Well, he starts crying and screaming like this is the most traumatic thing 0.99

00:31:10.900 that's ever happened to him in his life.

00:31:13.440 And it is.

00:31:14.340 to him.

00:31:17.320 And so I have to see it

00:31:19.300 and I have to understand it and I have to

00:31:21.100 approach him as he sees

00:31:23.420 that from where he is in life.

00:31:26.060 Not like,

00:31:27.180 boy, get up. You know how many broken

00:31:29.360 bones I've had? You know how many times I've been

00:31:31.360 bucked on the horse? Do you know how many plates

00:31:33.280 and screws like that? You think that? That ain't nothing.

00:31:35.460 Get up. What are you doing?

00:31:36.760 We don't do that. Well, it's like that with

00:31:39.220 everybody in life.

00:31:41.340 Wherever they're coming from

00:31:43.120 with their experience.

00:31:44.340 that's what they're feeling.

00:31:46.700 And we have to let them feel that based on where they are.

00:31:51.100 We can't deny them the right to feel that based on where we are.

00:31:56.020 Does that make sense?

00:31:57.240 Yeah.

00:31:57.920 Thank you.

00:31:58.960 You know, there's one other thing.

00:32:00.360 If she can't trust you on what you think are the little things,

00:32:03.340 she's not going to come to you with what you think are the big things.

00:32:06.200 And I can't tell you how many times I talk with guys,

00:32:08.920 and this happens as well, 0.97

00:32:10.280 when men experience divorce and a woman initiates it,

00:32:14.340 on average, it's that woman has been thinking about that for two-plus years. 0.60

00:32:19.960 And what that tells me and what it should tell all of us

00:32:22.520 is that she's afraid to talk to you about it for some reason

00:32:26.240 because too often we minimize what she's been telling us all along

00:32:31.180 and we misinterpret it or misread it or downplay it.

00:32:34.540 And then she comes and says, I want a divorce.

00:32:36.840 I'm like, I can't believe that's blindsided.

00:32:39.500 That's what I said.

00:32:40.180 until I had some hindsight realized oh yeah I wasn't blindsided I just missed

00:32:47.520 everything so take care of those little things the little things you think are

00:32:51.920 little take care of those treat those gently as going said because those big

00:32:55.500 things will come in a factor as well

00:32:59.680 Thank you.

00:33:04.680 Hi, my name is Stacy.

00:33:07.680 And I was wondering, from your experience, all three of you guys,

00:33:11.680 what approaches have proven most effective

00:33:15.680 for avoiding the tendency to measure yourself against an ideal instead

00:33:20.680 of staying focused on your progress relative to your past self?

00:33:25.680 You're talking about, like, the comparison trap.

00:33:30.800 Here's my thought.

00:33:32.700 I actually don't think it's really all that bad.

00:33:36.140 Let me rephrase that.

00:33:38.020 I think there is an opportunity for positive comparison.

00:33:41.500 And not a lot of people talk about this.

00:33:43.320 Everybody says, I don't compare yourself to other people.

00:33:45.440 Why?

00:33:46.540 Other people show you what's possible.

00:33:48.600 Remember when I was little, I watched football players,

00:33:51.780 and one of my childhood heroes was Nolan Ryan.

00:33:54.640 and I go out there and I practice my pitches

00:33:57.840 and I want to throw 100 miles an hour

00:33:59.680 and throw seven no-hitters

00:34:01.300 and do all the things that he did.

00:34:02.980 That's healthy.

00:34:04.460 And then I have friends, you know,

00:34:05.800 like Kip and Tanner, all these guys here,

00:34:09.120 that I look at what they're doing

00:34:10.980 and it's inspiring to me.

00:34:13.240 And I compare my current situation

00:34:14.920 to what they're doing.

00:34:15.960 You know, I look at Kip as a father.

00:34:17.600 I compare my fatherhood skills to Kip's

00:34:20.640 because I aspire to be more like Kip.

00:34:23.480 And that's not unhealthy.

00:34:25.200 That's the healthiest thing that a man can do, and that's why brotherhood is so important, so we can begin to see what's possible.

00:34:31.220 But there is a trap.

00:34:32.740 It's not exclusively a good thing.

00:34:34.620 It's when it demoralizes us.

00:34:37.060 So if I was comparing myself to a kid, and I was like, man, instead of being aspirational, like, I can do this, and I can do that, and I can work on this, and I can be more present, and I can do all these things, I started thinking, man, I'm a horrible father.

00:34:49.500 I'll never be like a kid.

00:34:51.180 I'll never be able to have that relationship with my kids.

00:34:53.420 I just don't have what he has.

00:34:55.160 You see the difference?

00:34:56.580 So if you start to feel yourself going down that lane of self-deprecation and feeling bad for yourself, playing the victim card, then you know that comparison is no longer healthy.

00:35:07.060 And I've had to have situations in my life where I just have limited contact with those comparisons because it doesn't work for me.

00:35:14.100 Or I've had to cut certain things off because it puts me in a bad spiraling mood.

00:35:19.200 But I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with comparison.

00:35:22.200 it's just a matter of whether it fuels you or it hinders you I agree with

00:35:32.040 whatever everything that Ryan said whatever but I do think the only thing

00:35:43.140 I would add to that is the lens that you choose to view that person through so

00:35:49.120 So like for instance, I live in St. Louis, right?

00:35:53.880 I live in the same town as Andy Fursella, right, which is founder of First Form.

00:35:58.740 He's got an arsenal of exotic cars in his garage, I don't, right?

00:36:03.660 There's a part of me, obviously when I look at that, I'm like, man, that's pretty cool

00:36:06.880 that he can do that well in business, right?

00:36:10.940 But also, if we only look at that person through one dimension, you know, that one thing, that's

00:36:17.180 That's the one thing that we're going to see and that's why I think Ryan can be demoralizing.

00:36:22.680 Versus looking at your own life through acknowledgement, appreciation, and gratitude.

00:36:28.940 So I might not have a Lamborghini in the garage.

00:36:31.420 I don't need one.

00:36:32.420 But I have a wife that loves me more than anything.

00:36:37.640 I have four healthy boys that I get to come home to right now.

00:36:43.900 get to eat dinner together as a family right there are there are people in the

00:36:50.320 world that why they might have one thing that they're insanely good at I mean

00:36:55.420 think of pro athletes that we know right they were really really good at whatever

00:36:59.500 they were doing at their craft but the rest of their life was in shambles last

00:37:04.600 last year we had an incredible testimonial who opened up for us last

00:37:09.460 year which was Darryl Strawberry and he was so open I mean I grew up watching

00:37:14.800 Darryl Strawberry all right right Patrick and you look at people like that

00:37:20.920 like they never have a bad day they have all of these things but Darryl was

00:37:26.260 extremely forthcoming with how messy the rest of his life really was and the

00:37:30.960 things that we take for granted and if we're looking at that person like well

00:37:34.000 they're an all-star athlete there might be other things going on we don't know

00:37:38.560 right and it's been looking into what you do have and also really appreciate

00:37:43.240 that too but that's a really great question thank you for that there's one

00:37:47.380 other quick thing that I've found useful for me is when you see somebody who has

00:37:51.160 something that you aspire to have or be like instead of being so fixated on what

00:37:55.840 they have or how you know like why they're in that position or what they

00:38:00.100 must have done people will do that too right don't villainize people oh he must

00:38:04.000 have cheated somebody or he must have just got lucky and they'll start to

00:38:07.360 diminish how that person has success in that

00:38:09.440 aspect of their life, instead of getting so

00:38:11.480 fixated on that, get fixated on how they

00:38:13.480 did it. If you want to be like Andy

00:38:15.460 Frisilla, stop comparing yourself to Andy Frisilla

00:38:17.520 and start asking, how did he do that?

00:38:19.880 How did he figure that out?

00:38:21.460 If you want to be a better father and you see somebody

00:38:23.500 who has a great relationship with their kids, don't be

00:38:25.560 envious of that. Be curious about it.

00:38:28.020 What's he doing? What kind of

00:38:29.400 conversations are they having? What type of activities

00:38:31.600 are they engaging? What kind of memories are they making?

00:38:33.960 When you start getting more curious,

00:38:35.520 then I think you'll start to naturally be in a healthier place of comparison that will serve you better.

00:38:44.520 Alright, thank you.

00:38:51.520 Hey, my name is Phil. My question is, how do you find the balance between analyzing and action?

00:38:58.520 I tend to overanalyze a lot.

00:39:01.680 Sometimes I think I can just read and think my way to success.

00:39:05.900 And I know Ryan, you talk about being too much of a doer,

00:39:10.120 just no forethought, just go do it.

00:39:14.440 And then you leave a wake of collateral damage in your path.

00:39:18.100 Is there a way to find a balance

00:39:19.540 between analyzing and action?

00:39:22.840 We don't know.

00:39:27.740 I'm just kidding.

00:39:29.920 Everyone's like, I don't know.

00:39:31.920 You know, look, I think it's a Stephen Covey who says start with the end in mind.

00:39:37.080 Start with the end in mind, right?

00:39:38.920 And so there's two opposite ends of the spectrum on this.

00:39:42.840 There's the overthinkers and the overdoers.

00:39:45.560 And you might be more on the spectrum of overthinker, right?

00:39:48.820 I might be on the spectrum of overdoer.

00:39:51.040 And so an overthinker would want everything perfect.

00:39:54.660 And what you need to start doing is you need to start surrounding yourself with people that it isn't really that comfortable with.

00:40:00.440 And those are the people who are more like overdoers.

00:40:02.640 Because then you can start seeing it through their lens.

00:40:05.020 And they're going to push you into really uncomfortable places, which means launching things that aren't quite 100%.

00:40:11.640 So if you spent more time engaged with people who are overdoers, you would gradually move where you are on that spectrum.

00:40:18.880 Now, me, on the other hand, whereas I'm actually an overdoer, and like you said, if it feels

00:40:24.580 good, I'm doing it, and I'll figure out all the details later, and the guys who've been

00:40:28.900 around me for any amount of time know that to be 100% true.

00:40:32.340 It's really, really effective until it's not so effective, and it ends up costing me a

00:40:38.240 lot of time, or money, or energy, or relationships, because I didn't think about how my actions

00:40:43.820 would affect all of that other stuff.

00:40:45.960 So I need to spend more time around overthinkers so I can start to see, oh, I didn't consider that perspective.

00:40:52.620 I hadn't thought about that.

00:40:54.380 That wasn't something that ran through my mind.

00:40:56.760 And so wherever you are, let me ask you this.

00:40:59.640 How many of you guys would say you're an overthinker just by show of hands?

00:41:03.900 Overthinkers.

00:41:05.680 That's like 80 plus percent.

00:41:08.000 Overdoers?

00:41:08.520 How many overdoers?

00:41:09.900 A lot less.

00:41:11.060 It's good to know that about yourself.

00:41:12.700 The more you can know about yourself, then you can start to fill in the holes with people that can help you get to a better place.

00:41:19.440 And so this is why brotherhood is going to be so important for you.

00:41:22.460 So what I would do is I would spend time with the 20% of guys who are those action takers and start getting curious about what they're doing to push themselves forward.

00:41:31.260 Start with the end in mind.

00:41:32.600 Get yourself around people who aren't like you but still headed in the same direction.

00:41:36.840 This is one conversation we talk a lot about too.

00:41:39.920 Diversity isn't inherently strong. 0.93

00:41:42.700 If I get on a rowboat with these three, with us three, and each of us have an oar, and we're all rowing in the opposite directions, we could say that's diverse, but none of us are going to get anywhere.

00:41:58.020 But if we're all rowing, maybe in a different way of rowing, but we're rowing in the same direction, eventually we'll get to where we're going.

00:42:04.380 So align yourself with people who are going where you're going, but have a different personality than you, and that'll help round out some of the things that might be not only characteristics that are good for you, but character deficiencies as well.

00:42:21.740 That help?

00:42:22.660 Awesome.

00:42:23.340 Thank you for taking my question.

00:42:28.780 I'm Adrian.

00:42:29.540 Yeah. This morning as I was meditating, first of all, this has been such a wonderful collection

00:42:40.400 of information and with such great overlaps between speakers. As I've been taking this

00:42:46.200 all in and further refined my identity and character and doubling down on truly what

00:42:52.300 that is and refining my systems and my vision and building those systems. One of the struggles

00:43:00.000 that I've been having in doing so over the past many months has been in 2 Timothy it

00:43:06.400 talks about, in the Bible it talks about, be ready in season and out of season. In that

00:43:13.960 context, you know, in season when all is going well, when I feel the grace of God in his

00:43:20.780 hand in all that I'm doing, touching things, the provision is there, you know, the servitude

00:43:27.600 is there, and I just feel, I feel that all those things are going right.

00:43:32.900 But when I'm out of season, and the systems that I've employed are no longer bearing the

00:43:40.140 fruit, how long, how long do I work within that season, within those systems, before

00:43:48.800 I go all right time to rewrite the script trying to modify the system and what are some of those

00:43:57.440 tools that you might recommend employing to do so do you read Shakespeare no no I'm not gonna try to

00:44:08.000 quote. There's a Shakespeare where he talks about there's a time in tide. And when the

00:44:17.880 tide is right and the man is prepared for the tide and then the timing of the tide comes

00:44:22.760 in, then the ship can sail. So if you think about it, you take a giant merchant ship back

00:44:28.920 in that day and they're tied up to the dock. These ships are huge and they're incredibly

00:44:33.860 heavy, and they cannot sail

00:44:35.760 until the tide is perfectly right.

00:44:40.020 But if the tide is perfectly

00:44:41.800 right, but the ship has not,

00:44:43.740 the captain has not had the ship

00:44:45.640 provisioned

00:44:47.800 and laid it, and

00:44:49.900 had

00:44:51.900 sailors on it as a man.

00:44:54.380 If he hasn't gone through the

00:44:55.840 labor, that looks like it's not doing

00:44:57.940 anything.

00:44:59.760 So basically, there's a time in

00:45:01.840 life where we prepare

00:45:03.440 for when the magic happens.

00:45:06.620 We don't wait until the magic happens

00:45:09.200 to prepare for the magic.

00:45:12.600 And sometimes if we have done all we can

00:45:14.960 to prepare for the magic,

00:45:17.320 then we just wait for the right time.

00:45:20.760 And when the tide, when God's timing comes in,

00:45:23.240 we've done our part beforehand.

00:45:26.940 And back then they would sit there on the dock,

00:45:29.160 they had to be waiting, they had to be ready,

00:45:31.040 and it would be days, it would be weeks.

00:45:33.440 The ship is provisioned, the crew is here, everything is here, but the tide hasn't risen yet.

00:45:40.440 But when the tide rises, alright everybody on board, it's time to go.

00:45:45.440 So they did the systems beforehand, but then it took the patience to wait for the things that were out of their hand to come into place and for everything to line up.

00:45:57.440 Then for there to be success in their endeavor.

00:46:02.440 Sometimes when things fail, it's not, the systems didn't fail.

00:46:09.440 Alright, sometimes it's not good timing.

00:46:13.440 When I started this dry creek arena school, I tried to start it several years ago.

00:46:18.440 And it failed miserably.

00:46:20.440 There was nothing wrong with the system.

00:46:23.440 What was wrong was I wasn't wrecked.

00:46:26.440 I wasn't mature enough.

00:46:28.440 I didn't have enough knowledge.

00:46:29.440 my horsemanship was not near what I thought it was.

00:46:33.440 My temper was terrible. My business sense was way worse than

00:46:37.440 it is now and right now it's abysmal. It would have been

00:46:41.440 an absolute disaster. I had the systems in place,

00:46:45.440 but the tide did not come again. And then when the tide came in

00:46:49.440 and I was ready, we launched the school and the school did great.

00:46:53.440 So sometimes it's easy to blame the systems, but sometimes

00:46:57.440 it's just the timing's not ready yet. Just be prepared and wait for the stars to align.

00:47:08.240 Thank you for the question. In the alliance we go through skills and drills and

00:47:14.720 I like simple things, very simple things. We do this thing and a lot of my guys here will

00:47:19.920 be familiar with it. It's called start, stop, keep and we do this in our family on a monthly basis.

00:47:27.440 We analyze what we're doing, and we ask ourselves three questions.

00:47:31.660 What do we need to stop doing that isn't serving us anymore?

00:47:36.500 I mean, if you think about it in your business, I mean, I know Ryan's business has changed, mine has too.

00:47:40.080 We can't use the same systems or operations we did 10 years ago like we did.

00:47:44.160 So what do we need to stop doing that isn't serving us?

00:47:47.220 What do we need to start doing that will serve us, that maybe we don't know about?

00:47:52.400 Let's explore that.

00:47:54.200 And then the third question is, what do we need to keep doing that is absolutely serving us and that we cannot live without?

00:48:00.960 I know that sounds oversimplified, but like I said, I love simplicity.

00:48:06.740 And by the way, guys, if you ask a question or you hear a question, and we're still together for another day and a half or so,

00:48:13.120 these are good conversations to have over dinner.

00:48:15.580 So if you know you've got an answer or you've got some solutions and insight,

00:48:19.080 please get together and talk about these things throughout the rest of the event.

00:48:22.760 The only other thing I'd add is if you have a coach or a mentor that's gone before you, then they can tell you, hey, what you're doing, you shouldn't be doing that anymore.

00:48:30.720 Or, hey, what you're doing is right, but it's just going to take a lot of time.

00:48:34.620 That's why I like a good coach with fitness, for example.

00:48:37.920 You'll work with a coach who's worked with thousands of guys, and you might not experience the results that you want to see right away.

00:48:44.380 But a good fitness coach is going to say, hey, you know what?

00:48:47.000 We need to tweak your training schedule a little bit.

00:48:49.240 Or he might say, no, it's good.

00:48:50.700 It's just going to take 60 days to start experiencing what you want to experience and a good coach will keep you in the game

00:48:56.580 When you're doing the right things without experiencing the results yet, so make sure you get coaches. Yeah, great. Thank you guys

00:49:07.260 Hi, I'm John. I think a good partner and a good marriage can be like having a super power

00:49:14.240 So I want to make sure I'm maximizing

00:49:16.240 So what attribute of a marriage do you think is the most important to really lean into

00:49:26.080 to grow as a man, a husband, and a father, and how would you go about leaning into that

00:49:31.120 to kind of get out of the comfort zone or continue to grow?

00:49:36.480 So marriage is something that I've really dove into over the past 10 years because

00:49:41.040 like I said I almost lost mine 10 years ago.

00:49:44.240 And when it comes to those aspects, I think a lot of us, I know I was, I was totally confused

00:49:49.540 of what is my role, because the world will tell us one thing, you know, our friends will

00:49:54.740 tell us another, we look at how our parents operated, that will tell us something else,

00:49:58.700 because that was an example that we had as well, and it could have been a good or a bad.

00:50:03.460 But I think the simplest way, I mean, this is a, thank you for the question, this is

00:50:09.100 a big question, and a lot of my guys over here know that that's a deep question.

00:50:14.240 that's more of a conversation but here's what I'll tell you that works for my 0.58

00:50:20.540 wife and I and I just want to answer this in the simplest way is that my wife

00:50:24.320 and I are married first and we're parents second now that doesn't mean that

00:50:29.360 our kids are not a priority they absolutely are a priority you know if

00:50:33.700 someone had if something's going wrong it's not like sorry that's going on me

00:50:37.040 and mom have a date night peace right however my wife and I view our

00:50:42.440 relationship as the foundation of the house. Period. Full stop. If we crump

00:50:49.320 our view is the family suffers for that. And what I think a lot of men do and a lot of

00:50:58.940 women do is once we start having kids, that frying pan that's on the front burner, which

00:51:03.860 is called our marriage, that gets slid back to the back burner, right? And we put the 1.00

00:51:10.340 kids on that front burner and we forget about that back burner and it actually never a lot of times

00:51:16.240 never gets moved you know to the front again my wife and i have a date every friday not negotiable

00:51:24.440 i actually take a half a day off work on friday for that date and i could probably get 10 to 20

00:51:32.540 burning things done that i need to get done that are going to hang over my head over the weekend

00:51:36.340 but that is something that we are both committed to is making sure that we are

00:51:41.320 a married couple we are not just mom and dad and we're not my wife and I also

00:51:45.820 talk about we don't spin in different orbits meaning she's living her life and

00:51:51.220 I'm living mine and we can detect that usually very quickly but wasn't always

00:51:56.300 so everything I'm telling you we fell on our face on over and over weird we're

00:52:00.340 both terrible at it I was worse I got married to a patient woman but we

00:52:06.040 truly value each other in four different ways number one we're individuals she

00:52:14.020 has she's an individual I'm an individual so we both honor each other

00:52:19.000 as individuals right we each have different things that we do we have

00:52:21.820 things in common we also have a partnership and the partnership is where

00:52:26.940 a lot of couples get stuck in our family and in our community we call the

00:52:31.480 partnership loop that's the chores the roles the bills the kids stuff the

00:52:35.940 activities the homework that's the stuff we spend those are more transactional

00:52:39.940 conversations right but they're logistical and they're necessary but a

00:52:42.720 lot of people just get stuck there the third level is friendship and

00:52:48.480 unfortunately I think a lot of us lose the friendship with my with with our

00:52:51.960 wives I wrote my wife a letter before the morning I started today and one of

00:52:57.240 the things I told her in that letter she knows this we've been together for 30

00:53:00.600 years she is my best friend i am her best friend and with that friendship is so important

00:53:08.600 and then the fourth aspect is the physical you know the sexual that part of our relationship

00:53:14.600 because that is you know that is one of the things that but the main thing that separates

00:53:18.600 us from being friends and co-parents is that and so sex to us intimacy to us is extremely important

00:53:26.280 it's a non-negotiable sometimes it's even like whether we feel like it or not that's usually

00:53:30.760 hurt for me but whether we feel like it or not um we do it right i mean just because that is

00:53:37.400 important but i know that like i would actually love to have a deeper conversation with you

00:53:41.800 um and and find out the world i think well i can add something to that and i'm not married

00:53:47.960 i was married for 18 years and i think when i look back at my marriage uh the best times

00:53:52.840 during that relationship or when we knew each other and when it fell apart we didn't really

00:53:57.960 know each other and the only way to know somebody is to have conversations with them

00:54:01.800 the answer is communication i mean that that's what it is it's it's asking questions it's getting

00:54:07.720 to know her it's asking serious deep questions like what are your goals what are your fears

00:54:13.320 what do you love most about this relationship when you feel most loved what is it that i'm doing i

00:54:18.440 feel most loved when you're doing this and it's crazy questions maybe it's intimate questions

00:54:22.840 about what's your favorite position or what would you like to try that we've never tried your

00:54:27.320 bedroom but asking all of those questions and setting aside to your point about date night

00:54:31.960 setting aside designated time where you can actually do that you got you have kids

00:54:39.480 yeah so four or five year old yeah so it's tough to do that it's tough to be able to communicate

00:54:44.520 with your wife because your kids are hanging on your knee and they need to be fed and they

00:54:48.680 need to be not bored and all the other things that go with it.

00:54:51.820 But if you set aside that time and you just find ways to communicate with her, serious

00:54:57.580 stuff, silly stuff, and everything in between, you're going to know each other and that's

00:55:01.760 part of what fell apart in my marriage.

00:55:05.340 So I'd say communication, huge.

00:55:10.180 Thank you.

00:55:14.520 Jerry Little here. Long time listener, first time caller. What are some suggestions that you might have on how a man could address to the courts any narcissistic, legal abuse, financial abuse, emotional abuse that's done by a spouse going through a divorce system or even a separation?

00:55:34.980 Because sometimes it feels like the court is stacked up against us men, and that is something that we could battle or easily just give up because it might be too much of a hurdle to climb.

00:55:46.080 When you ask that question, are you talking about you personally addressing grievances, or are you talking about advocacy for those issues broadly?

00:55:53.700 More right now advocacy for those issues broadly.

00:55:56.880 I know how I handled it, and it was very detrimental, and I almost gave up several times.

00:56:01.060 But I'm trying to almost create a movement as well for other men to have those answers when they come up on this.

00:56:09.100 Yeah, and that's, I'm glad you said that because that's where my mind immediately goes is that you had a situation.

00:56:16.720 You know, here's what's interesting is just about every day I get people who will reach out to me and they say,

00:56:21.820 Hey, Ryan, you should do this. You should do that. You should try this. No, you should do that.

00:56:27.840 If that's an important issue, why are you telling me I should do it?

00:56:32.040 Now, I realize most people are a fan of what we do when they say that.

00:56:36.200 They want us to grow and everything else.

00:56:38.120 But if you have something that's in your heart, then you should do that.

00:56:41.520 And that's what you're doing right now.

00:56:42.980 What I would do is, right off the bat, and I'll get really tactical with you,

00:56:47.220 I'd get into Facebook groups, single dad Facebook groups,

00:56:51.140 and I'd create my own Facebook group,

00:56:52.740 and I'd start building advocacy networks for guys who've gone through similar things.

00:56:56.920 I'd create chapters, I'd have meetings, I'd get attorneys involved in those groups, I'd

00:57:03.000 get legislators involved, I'd get elected to political positions within my community

00:57:08.500 and state so you can start enacting some of these changes that need to take place.

00:57:12.160 But the first thing is to start rallying men around a common cause.

00:57:17.260 And we have access to the, I mean, it's incredible.

00:57:20.120 I can go on Facebook right now and say, hey, single dad group, and I could pull up a dozen

00:57:24.680 or more in my area who are facing the issues that you're facing single fathers and you can start

00:57:30.360 talking about this uh in a way that resonates with other men who have experienced what you've

00:57:35.000 experienced and then find a way to get them together through a common cause that's how

00:57:39.960 i would start something like that without the tactics involved in just doing that starting

00:57:47.640 is there any suggestions you would have to anybody going through right now in the absence of that

00:57:54.680 I still I think what you need to do is find that support. I do because there's and I've had personal conversations with a handful of guys here that are in similar situations over the weekend and you need to be around those people and maybe you don't necessarily need to start a movement so to speak but you can go talk with those guys about what you're dealing with and you can get them to talk with you about what you're dealing with because you're going to lean on each other.

00:58:24.680 You're going to be able to have the conversations that a lot of people just won't understand.

00:58:30.600 You know, and when Larry was talking about empathy, you know, you need a guy in your corner who's like,

00:58:35.480 yeah, bro, I know how that feels.

00:58:37.260 I actually have this situation going.

00:58:39.160 And, you know, you might not even need to have the solution to that,

00:58:42.500 but just knowing that you have a brother that's maybe alienated from his children or, you know,

00:58:48.540 the court system or finances being weaponized against you, I don't know your situation.

00:58:54.680 But you're going to have other guys that are experiencing that, so you need to go out and you need to be proactive in finding other men in that situation who are already talking about.

00:59:03.680 And I promise you, those groups already exist. I know they do.

00:59:07.680 Perfect.

00:59:08.680 Does that help?

00:59:09.680 Absolutely.

00:59:10.680 Awesome.

00:59:11.680 Cool.

00:59:12.680 Hi, I'm Bill. My question is, how do you deal with and respond to the fallout from the pain and trauma caused prior to and during your road trip?

00:59:23.680 How do you deal with the trauma, I'm just making sure I understand the question, of

00:59:36.180 what you were before the growth journey?

00:59:39.680 The past is the past.

00:59:41.680 It's easier to say, but walk away.

00:59:44.680 Nothing will destroy the man you are today faster than the man you were yesterday.

00:59:51.680 And man doesn't exist anymore. Those situations don't exist anymore. So just leave it. And I'm not being flippant. It's easy to say that. But I'm speaking from experience.

01:00:03.360 Don't let yourself drag yourself down from someone that you used to be.

01:00:11.360 And don't let anybody else drag the you that you are today down based on the you that you used to be yesterday.

01:00:21.360 Look to the future. Look to today. Stop looking at the past.

01:00:26.360 It's over-simplified, but man, the biggest truths in life are simple.

01:00:32.360 You're familiar with the repentance process, right?

01:00:38.120 Part of the repentance process is to make amends where you can, just part of it.

01:00:42.420 And I have a philosophy, when I do somebody wrong, if I can, I do what I need to do, but

01:00:50.660 I apologize once, once.

01:00:54.400 That's my boundary.

01:00:55.400 I don't over-apologize, I don't re-apologize, I don't bring up old rules.

01:00:59.160 If something needs to be addressed and I did something, you know, maybe it's to my wife or what, I will recognize that, I will acknowledge that, I will acknowledge how I was in the past, and I will apologize to that person one time, and then that I can now wash my hands from.

01:01:13.400 So it is part of the repentance process to acknowledge it and make amends where you can, and I think when you do that, you can begin to let go a little bit more.

01:01:20.700 But again, I have the one apology rule of place, otherwise you'll just be saying sorry forever, and that's not going to serve you at all.

01:01:29.160 You have five kids.

01:01:32.360 I know you well.

01:01:33.560 Your kids do something wrong.

01:01:35.480 How easy is it for you to forgive us?

01:01:38.940 Pretty easy.

01:01:40.380 There you go.

01:01:41.840 And that's you too.

01:01:44.120 That's it.

01:01:48.140 Guys, just for sake of time, no more.

01:01:50.600 Well, we're going to take you four that are in line right now, but no more after that, okay?

01:01:53.800 We'll make sure we get your guys' questions answered.

01:01:56.440 I'm Joe Hicken. I have three boys and one daughter. She was the last one. I noticed at a young age, she's a lot different. She's very strong-willed. She's determined and very confrontational at six.

01:02:18.720 So, I just had a question, what would you do in raising your daughter, if you have a daughter, or what did you do with Dwayne, in making her the strong, healthy, independent woman she hopefully will become?

01:02:38.720 Don't do what I did. Okay. I did not, I had three younger sisters. I did not understand girls. They were weird. And I got married and I didn't understand my wife. She was weird.

01:02:54.780 then I had four daughters and they're all weird you know so I raised the boys 0.89

01:03:00.360 this is wrong okay so I raised the boys and I told my wife I said the girls are 0.87

01:03:06.900 yours all right that's your tribe you guys are all weird to speak your

01:03:10.680 weirdness together not okay I'm not recommending that I will say this okay

01:03:18.480 if your daughter does not get the love and affirmation from you that she needs

01:03:30.280 she'll get it from somebody else she's got a habit that's wired in her and so

01:03:37.700 if you don't give it to her not they had a wonderful mother and she she did a

01:03:43.580 wonderful job and my girls they did all they turned out wonderfully but that is

01:03:51.340 the one thing I regret I did not move over into this sphere their sphere more

01:04:00.800 often and I have a hard time now my daughter is grown they have babies they

01:04:04.820 have two of them in their own and there's no there's no there's no breach

01:04:11.980 between us but there's a wall there's a plexiglass wall that we just can't seem

01:04:17.620 to hear each other through and that's on me okay embrace your weirdness that 0.98

01:04:22.360 that's I mean that's what makes women so interesting and so exciting and so fun 1.00

01:04:27.580 is that they're weird and your daughter's weird I don't even know her but if 0.91

01:04:31.540 she's a six-year-old girl she's pretty weird cuz they are all right embrace it

01:04:38.140 enjoy your three sons together combined are going to be easier to raise than that one little girl

01:04:44.640 but it's worth it because they're magic so embrace the magic enjoy the magic and just love the head

01:04:51.120 there's a there's a good book that i read a couple years ago strong father strong daughters

01:04:59.540 a lot of you guys have probably read that book so i definitely suggest that book there's actually

01:05:04.220 some really interesting research by Dr. Warren Farrell. He talks about the importance of a man

01:05:09.500 in a young girl's life. And I'm paraphrasing some of this, but it's interesting that how

01:05:15.200 important a father figure is into a daughter's life because she gets the attention of a man

01:05:19.540 without it being sexualized. And the path of least resistance for a woman to get attention 0.92

01:05:24.240 is through sexual energy. But if she can learn that there's men out there that will give her 0.99

01:05:29.400 attention and pour into her and love her respectfully without it having to be sexually

01:05:33.900 driven, they are going to be less likely to engage in premarital sex, premature, early

01:05:40.820 pregnancy, and these types of things.

01:05:42.860 So know how important your role is and read that book and, well, pour into her.

01:05:48.840 Embrace it.

01:05:49.800 It's weird. 0.96

01:05:50.620 It's interesting to me because we as men sometimes say, well, I don't understand women. 1.00

01:05:54.560 Right. 1.00

01:05:55.060 We're not supposed to. 1.00

01:05:56.580 Because if we did, then what would be the point of the relationship with a woman? 1.00

01:06:00.960 There wouldn't be much of a point. 1.00

01:06:02.600 She's to teach you things. 0.99

01:06:03.680 It's here to teach her things.

01:06:04.820 But if you understood each other, there'd be nothing to learn.

01:06:09.420 Thank you.

01:06:13.940 All right.

01:06:16.180 I will see another five-year-old boy and eight-year-old daughter.

01:06:19.820 I have come to find out that I'm an incredibly reactive parent, especially when it comes to chores.

01:06:28.820 I was listening to some stuff on Monday and realized that that's not the way.

01:06:36.820 That's always what's been patterned, modeled to me.

01:06:40.820 Anyways, my question is how do I transform or transition from an enforcer role to a leader role and how do I build the patients in the belief that they will get their chores in?

01:06:56.820 Thank you so much for the question.

01:07:04.820 I feel you.

01:07:06.820 That's one of my curtain nights.

01:07:08.820 I'm working on that myself.

01:07:10.820 I'd love to have a deeper conversation with you later about this to get really specific,

01:07:16.820 but I'll tell you some things that did not work for me and that does now.

01:07:20.820 First of all, I have four boys, that's why I couldn't answer the last question. 0.87

01:07:24.820 question my wife jokes that she's surrounded by ten balls so I can't do 0.97

01:07:29.140 the girl there but but one of the biggest annoyances that I have is when 0.93

01:07:34.060 my kids are not doing what they're supposed to do what they're supposed to

01:07:36.760 do especially their chores but here's the thing we I used to think and I look 0.99

01:07:42.280 back on this I'm like man you were so dumb like you don't run your business 0.99

01:07:45.460 like this why would you run your family like this my kids didn't know what their 0.99

01:07:49.180 jobs really were right and they're also kids so like being they're younger and

01:07:54.520 And if you really look at the psychology of a kid,

01:07:56.500 they can only take in like two or three things at a time.

01:07:59.080 So if you give them, if you say five things to them,

01:08:01.320 I need you to go do these five things,

01:08:02.580 they're probably gonna remember too.

01:08:04.480 And they're also gonna probably not do those things

01:08:07.200 incredibly well unless they're taught

01:08:09.260 or unless they have the example.

01:08:11.960 So every single young man in my house

01:08:15.180 now has a role, a job, jobs I should say.

01:08:19.180 They know exactly what they're supposed to do.

01:08:21.620 they don't they know when they're supposed to do it and most importantly

01:08:26.000 and this is where I missed it big time what does good actually look like because

01:08:32.440 the kid we are all kids I mean go clean your room you take all your stuff you

01:08:36.020 shove it under your bed you take all the dirty laundry you put it back in the

01:08:39.740 drawers you know like you just it's a mess right what I've also found is being

01:08:46.800 calm and specific like specific so like I'll give you an example like three

01:08:51.540 weeks ago I I went haywire on my 10 year old I told him I was like go clean your

01:08:56.100 room and he's still trying to he gets it but he you know he does it still

01:09:01.100 learning but I go in there and you know it's a everything it's not a claim right

01:09:07.440 it's 10 year old claim it's not clean so I yelled at him and then went back in

01:09:12.560 there still wasn't done right and my wife was like do you think he really

01:09:16.940 understands what clean room means and I kind of went back and I was like I've

01:09:21.200 never really actually like we never went in there and cleaned his room or he did

01:09:25.220 we took a picture of it said hey this is what good looks like right so just to

01:09:29.060 put it in our world right I used to be in the health industry used to work with

01:09:32.360 surgeons and doctors and imagine going to the doctor and looking at your blood

01:09:36.400 work and they're like hey Colton yeah I need you to get healthier like what's

01:09:42.080 wrong? I just need you to get healthier. Just get better health. What is my cholesterol?

01:09:46.320 Do I have diabetes? Do I have cancer? What do I have? Just get healthier. We're so general

01:09:50.920 with our kids. Go clean your room. What does that actually look like? Specificity, right?

01:09:56.640 The other thing too is when they're consistent with it, we praise them for it, right? Not

01:10:02.140 reward them. That's their job. But hey, job well done. This is what a clean room should

01:10:08.260 look like a good job, right? So just specificity, but trust me man, I get you. It's infuriating.

01:10:16.800 Yeah, I get it. I would double down on what he said. You got to take emotion out of the equation.

01:10:26.240 If they did not do the chore, which is what I heard at the beginning of the equation,

01:10:31.580 the children aren't doing the chores, okay? It needs to be dealt with. Emotion is not part of

01:10:37.020 that equation. It weakens you in their eyes. And it weakens your ability to deal with this

01:10:44.720 in a logical, reasonable, wise manner. And this becomes an issue. And so my thing from

01:10:53.460 part one experience is the number one thing to keep in mind. Everything he said I agree

01:10:57.820 100%. But I would put a gold star beside the point. Emotion has no place in the equation.

01:11:05.760 It's just simple justice and teaching and learning and growth, but it's not a punitive

01:11:13.520 emotional issue or then it becomes something else.

01:11:19.760 Thank you.

01:11:24.760 I'm Gavin.

01:11:25.760 I've got a 20-year-old daughter and when she was a nice wife, I made some mistakes. 0.78

01:11:30.760 I thought that I needed to protect her by controlling her and everything around her,

01:11:34.760 And it led to not seeing her from age 15 to 16, or 15 to 17.

01:11:43.940 We never talked, and I didn't see her until she was 18.

01:11:47.160 It tears me apart, right?

01:11:49.100 We're working on that now.

01:11:50.020 It's getting better.

01:11:50.920 But you guys have all raised young men who have gone up through high school, some more

01:11:56.620 recently than others.

01:11:58.200 But I've got two boys here who are about to enter high school.

01:12:01.380 Next year, they'll be a freshman.

01:12:03.380 And I'm scared to death.

01:12:04.760 Not because only of their actions, but all the things around them. 0.97

01:12:10.760 There is so much garbage out there that they almost don't even have to try.

01:12:17.760 All they have to do is get in the wrong circles, get with the wrong people, 0.97

01:12:21.760 end up in the wrong photograph that ends up on the internet, stuff like that.

01:12:26.760 So I guess my question is kind of one of hindsight.

01:12:29.760 If you were to think back to when your boys started high school, what do you wish you would have done better or differently,

01:12:36.420 or more specifically to help prepare them and to support them through high school?

01:12:43.060 And then I'd love if you had a few words of advice for them for some things that they can do to make sure they succeed.

01:12:51.740 Yeah, I've got a thought on this.

01:12:53.320 My oldest, Brankin, he's 18, he's about to graduate.

01:12:58.440 He's so easy.

01:12:59.760 Because he's basically me.

01:13:02.540 I mean, even if we get into an argument,

01:13:05.160 I'll say something in and he'll say something back,

01:13:07.040 and I'm like, that's a good point.

01:13:09.640 I would have said that.

01:13:10.960 And so it's like, even when we argue,

01:13:12.700 it's like he's the same.

01:13:13.820 So it's so easy to go hunting with him

01:13:15.880 and understand what he's excited about

01:13:18.180 and have conversations.

01:13:19.500 And my second was a lot harder,

01:13:21.680 because we're a lot different.

01:13:22.900 I remember asking him a couple years ago,

01:13:24.560 I said, hey, buddy, you want to go hunt with me?

01:13:26.180 He's like, no, I want to go hunting.

01:13:27.700 I'm like, what?

01:13:28.760 What?

01:13:29.060 He's like, I don't like being cold, I don't like being tired, and I don't like being bored.

01:13:34.560 I'm like, eh, it's a pretty good reason not to want to go hunting, because you're definitely

01:13:37.560 going to be all three of those things.

01:13:39.260 But it's taken the last, I would say, two years for us to formulate a more deep relationship

01:13:45.660 where he actually will text me about things that he's into.

01:13:49.560 Because before, he would say things to me, but I would kind of brush it off or not pay

01:13:55.240 attention, and so guess what?

01:13:56.500 He stopped sharing things with me.

01:13:57.700 Because it wasn't important to me. That was the question earlier. I can't remember who asked it about, is it important to you or is it important to them? And when I finally started to get myself into his world, which is, he likes sneakers and he likes cars and he likes fashion, he likes different things in me. But when I got excited about that and entered his world, I was able to build up the trust with him. So he'll message me things that still aren't something that I'm particularly interested in, but I'm interested in him.

01:14:24.840 And so when we start getting interested in the people that we love and care about, then we start to have some of that ability for influence with them.

01:14:32.040 I wish I would have done that earlier with him.

01:14:34.900 And I'm seeing that now with my daughter, which is even more difficult because even feet, they're weird, right?

01:14:41.480 Yeah, exactly.

01:14:43.100 And my youngest, you know, again, he's kind of like his oldest, so that one's easy.

01:14:46.980 But the two middle ones, those are rough, man.

01:14:48.940 But the more I got involved with that, the better I was off from building my trust with him.

01:14:55.680 And to the boys, where are you guys at?

01:14:57.580 I saw you a second ago.

01:14:59.040 There you go.

01:14:59.520 Yeah, to the boys.

01:15:00.760 I just want you to know, like, sometimes, I remember when I was your guys' age and I looked at my dad and I saw all the flaws.

01:15:08.880 I saw all the things that were wrong.

01:15:10.360 All the things he did wrong, what he could have done better, how he could have showed up, how he could have done this or that.

01:15:15.480 And then as I got older, I started to see the human.

01:15:18.940 And there's different stages of life that we have with our father.

01:15:24.900 So the first stage is we have this pedestalization, where we put them up on a pedestal and we think they're heroes.

01:15:31.020 And then we have this stage, which is villainization, where we start to villainize.

01:15:35.460 Oh, my dad this. My dad doesn't do this. He's an old man. He doesn't know what he's talking about.

01:15:39.740 And then you get to this third stage, and that third stage is where you start to humanize your father.

01:15:45.440 And you realize, oh, you know what? Yeah, he didn't have it all figured out.

01:15:48.340 but I could see that he tried

01:15:50.300 and I just want to tell you he's trying

01:15:52.400 like he's here

01:15:53.980 he's investing in you guys

01:15:55.440 he wants to be part of your lives

01:15:57.320 and so he's admitted things that he's done

01:15:59.860 and you guys have acknowledged it right

01:16:01.180 I'm sure you've acknowledged it even if it's inside

01:16:03.220 but start to get to that humanization phase

01:16:05.860 a little sooner as early as you can

01:16:07.540 and know that we all mess up

01:16:09.420 and you guys are going to mess up too as you grow older

01:16:11.560 but we're out here trying

01:16:13.560 we're out here doing the best we can

01:16:15.060 and spend time

01:16:17.140 take these moments to really be

01:16:19.160 engaged with them. That's what I'd say to

01:16:21.180 you, Ed, boys.

01:16:23.500 Awesome. Thanks, guys.

01:16:28.180 Last one. It better be

01:16:29.220 a good one. No pressure here.

01:16:31.080 No pressure. I'm Sean.

01:16:33.480 A follow-up to the marriage question.

01:16:35.600 How do you bridge the gap when

01:16:37.020 you and your wife have different philosophies

01:16:38.880 on the hierarchy?

01:16:40.880 You know, spouse and then parents.

01:16:47.140 guys ever gone through a process of identifying goals no definitely started

01:16:57.040 better okay my wife and I can you can you describe maybe your situation just a

01:17:03.540 little bit more sure very ten years three kids nine and then twin six-year

01:17:08.500 boys so we're in it for several years she's been questioning why were you

01:17:16.680 together. I'm sorry, can you repeat that? She's been questioning why did we even get married,

01:17:25.320 our friendship, or what that bond number was. Therapy speak, there's probably some

01:17:32.280 trauma bonding just when we came together. But I brought this up several times. I'm like,

01:17:38.520 I want to reboot. This isn't working. Here's what I believe. And she very vehemently denies,

01:17:45.480 no that's not what i believe and i don't know how to bridge that gap

01:17:51.480 hey just real quick on the reboot thing you don't get to do that

01:17:55.400 i mean rebuild a new dynamic i know what you're saying i'm just saying like sometimes

01:18:00.120 us as men feel like we just want to start over you don't you don't get to there's no

01:18:07.000 but you can rewrite the code right i think that's what you're talking about

01:18:11.080 So, understand that, and I just want to bring attention to that for anybody who thinks,

01:18:17.720 oh, well, let's just have a fresh slate.

01:18:19.500 How's that going to work?

01:18:21.500 She remembers everything that you've done over the past 10 years, the good, the bad,

01:18:25.020 and the ugly, and mostly the bad, and the ugly, and you need to rewrite that with new

01:18:28.700 memories, new scripts, new prompts, and it takes time.

01:18:33.520 That's what I was saying the other day.

01:18:34.720 It's like, what's your problem?

01:18:37.020 I've been good for a week.

01:18:38.180 it's not going to overdo 10 years

01:18:41.260 it takes a little bit longer to override that

01:18:43.060 you guys have been together for 10 years

01:18:45.720 by the way

01:18:47.240 thank you for the question

01:18:48.540 I really appreciate it

01:18:50.220 think back, when was the last time

01:18:53.980 that it felt like you and your wife

01:18:55.680 were a couple

01:18:57.340 that you were lovers

01:18:58.920 that you were dating

01:19:00.260 that you were courting her

01:19:03.620 pursuing her, creating polarity

01:19:05.900 tension

01:19:06.600 that's my son calling around oh yeah he does have a number um when was the last time it's been a while

01:19:17.160 what's a while probably a couple years at least a couple years okay is she resistant to you

01:19:25.560 pursuing like hey what's going on dude on friday what would she say it never goes well

01:19:33.120 Okay, tell me about that.

01:19:40.120 From my perspective, it seems like she tries to sabotage it, like use that as the opportunity to bring up six or eight months worth of grief.

01:19:48.120 And so, to my detriment, I've stopped. I've stopped trying because what I get out of it, there's no, I lost the word, but it just doesn't go well. It actually makes things worse. So then we just afford it to the kids more. That's probably the one thing we are doing well.

01:20:13.120 Logistics, like from Ryan said yesterday, so-so, but yeah.

01:20:21.040 Again, thank you for being so transparent.

01:20:24.460 This is definitely a deep conversation, for sure.

01:20:31.020 When was the last time you guys had consistent daily connection, even if it was just for 10 minutes?

01:20:36.800 And I'm not talking about, hey, we're taking this kid here, we're going to our store there, this bill is paid.

01:20:42.180 Like where you're actually like, hey, what was something that happened to you today that was really good?

01:20:47.100 What was the best part of your day? What was something that was so challenging today? Tell me about it.

01:20:51.020 Where you're actually connecting as a couple.

01:20:55.080 I can't remember.

01:20:56.320 Okay.

01:20:58.260 So, I would love to have a deeper conversation with you.

01:21:03.940 Because this was our story.

01:21:07.140 My wife and I have known each other for 30 years.

01:21:09.780 Married for 23.

01:21:12.180 The reps in a marriage is really no different than the reps in the gym.

01:21:17.580 You know, we don't go and, you know, train biceps once a year and, you know, they're going to grow, right?

01:21:24.200 But we do that in our relationships.

01:21:26.160 And it's actually not just in our marriage.

01:21:27.800 It's with our kids, too.

01:21:28.960 Like, we'll go weeks, months without, you know, connecting with them.

01:21:32.560 Same thing with friendships.

01:21:33.760 This is why 70% of men report being lonely.

01:21:36.760 You know, we don't have those deep relationships.

01:21:38.720 Steven Mansfield calls it rusty relationships where they're really shallow but having the

01:21:44.500 opportunity to get deep the one thing that I would just caution you and by the way I truly believe

01:21:52.600 I've been doing marriage coaching now for nine years and that that is the one thing that I can

01:22:00.060 hang my head on, that I can do well. But I've seen situations, John Bornheim back there

01:22:08.960 who completely turned his situation around, legally divorced, moved out, two separate

01:22:15.420 homes, and now is back together. That I think there can be a recovery in just about any

01:22:22.200 situation, even if it feels incredibly bleak. The message that, and again, I want to talk

01:22:29.160 to you online but the message that i have you know and i have to remind myself this i say this

01:22:35.160 to guys but i have to remind myself this is that without that consistency without that daily

01:22:41.720 connection without that no it's a non-negotiable every friday no matter what is going on we are

01:22:47.880 going to have a date right we're going to have time because without that rep we start to do that

01:22:54.600 thing when we spin in different orbits and when we spin in different orbits we

01:22:59.320 each start telling a story about the other person that may or may not be true

01:23:03.240 and the thing that we always say that edge is resentment is a lot like the

01:23:08.220 pulp that goes undetected because we don't get get the colonoscopy right and

01:23:15.160 Peter Tia said this in his book that not every polyp is a cancer but every

01:23:21.780 cancer starts at the pulp. So if we neglect those things and we're not doing those reps,

01:23:28.600 what happens is that resentment, unfortunately, it will metastasize. And it could be the end

01:23:35.240 of a relationship. But, you know, there's several resources out there. You know, you

01:23:40.500 guys have been doing couples therapy. I know Mark Carey, who's in the audience, he hosts

01:23:45.880 marriage retreats i would highly encourage you to get some outside help on this and the one thing

01:23:53.640 that i would absolutely caution you on is if you're going to get outside help it has to be

01:23:59.240 the right fit for both of you because the one thing that can be kryptonite to a man or a woman

01:24:05.700 is if that therapist takes the side of the other and sabotages the other we've heard that too

01:24:12.100 so a therapist is just like kind of like dating you gotta go find the right one

01:24:16.860 but again I know that that probably wasn't a divisive of an answer you

01:24:20.240 probably needed which is why I just would love to have the opportunity to talk to you

01:24:23.360 thank you all right guys we appreciate it great questions and obviously you

01:24:30.200 know with these types of questions keep the conversations rolling we've got a

01:24:32.900 lot of activities planned for this evening and planned for tomorrow morning

01:24:35.860 so and you might have heard a question where you think I got a perspective on

01:24:40.480 Go pull that guy aside and tell him, like, hey, I was thinking about that question you brought up

01:24:45.280 and I had something similar going on in my life and here's what I did

01:24:48.520 or here's a solution I came across and use this as fodder for some of the conversations

01:24:52.560 you guys can have the rest of the evening and into tomorrow morning.

01:24:57.200 Appreciate you guys. Thanks a lot.

01:25:04.100 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

01:25:06.580 you're ready to take charge of your life

01:25:08.780 and be more of the man you were meant to be

01:25:10.840 we invite you to join the order

01:25:12.520 at orderofman.com

Order of Man - April 28, 2026

Men Are Built： Live From the Men's Forge

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