Order of Man - Men Carry Knives, Real Accountability, and Little Wins Matter ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 in romantic relationships, where the minute a man shares what he needs, he's looked at as weak.

00:00:06.540 Oh, you need attention? What kind of man needs attention? Now, I don't think a woman's going to 1.00

00:00:11.420 say it as overtly as that, but that's what her messaging is. If a guy says, hey, babe, I really

00:00:16.700 want to connect on a deeper level. And she's like, well, something doesn't go your way. You tell me

00:00:21.920 about all the things that you need. And so what ends up happening is she ends up shutting a man 0.95

00:00:25.880 down. And so he buries it and he stuffs it. And then she says, why doesn't he share his emotions?

00:00:33.320 Kip, what's up, man? So good to see you. We are, as of the release of this podcast,

00:00:37.140 on Christmas Eve. So Merry Christmas a little bit early. Yeah. Merry Christmas as well.

00:00:44.300 Are you a good season? I hope at this point you're all ready because it's tomorrow. So

00:00:48.700 yeah, we're recording this about three or four days early. So if you're like most men or myself,

00:00:55.880 you're not completely ready yet. No, there's always something right. But, um, yeah, I like,

00:01:02.900 I used to beat myself up like, oh, you know, this is how it should be. I should be better prepared.

00:01:07.020 It's like, yeah, but what I, do I really want to, do I want to be wrapping presents like in November?

00:01:13.260 Not really. Like I kind of liked the hustle and the bustle of it and, and focusing on giving for

00:01:19.240 others during the month and, and things like that. So it's, it's all good, man. But, uh, it's been a

00:01:23.820 good holiday season so far. How about you? Yeah, really good. I was actually going to tell you,

00:01:28.100 I saw that you had a post that went absolutely viral several weeks ago and I meant to bring it

00:01:34.360 up and I forgot to bring that up. It's crazy, huh? So tell what the video was. I know what it was,

00:01:42.160 but tell them what the video was. And then I'm actually really curious. What was the ramifications

00:01:47.520 of like tens of millions of people watching this video? Yeah, it's, it's wild. So the scenario is

00:01:56.000 this, you know, we went downtown to go to a comedy show, the wife and I, um, I, I have everyday carry

00:02:03.500 typically a number of items. Um, I did a good job on the bigger items and I get up to the metal detectors

00:02:11.640 at the Delta center and I like check my pockets, make sure they're empty. And I have my knife and I'm

00:02:16.200 like, you've got to be joking. And, and, and the guy's like, Oh, I can throw it away for you. And

00:02:21.800 I'm like, uh, no, you're not throwing this knife away. And it's a really expensive knife. So I'm like

00:02:27.580 one minute. And, and then I run outside the door. I find a little plant by a tree, slide my knife

00:02:37.260 under it. I kind of look around, make sure no one's like paying too much attention to me. Slide my knife

00:02:41.640 under, go to the comedy show, full disclosure. I'm, I'm thinking the whole time, do not

00:02:46.060 forget the knife. Do not forget the knife. You know what I mean? Cause I was like, dude,

00:02:49.420 I just don't want to forget that thing. Um, I get out of the show and, and I told, tell

00:02:55.140 my wife, I'm like, Hey, remind me not to let me forget my knife. And she thinks it's funny.

00:03:00.680 And, and anything I do that's awkward, she classifies as it's a hillbilly thing by default.

00:03:07.040 She goes, I kept doing something weird. It must be because he's a hillbilly, right? Like 1.00

00:03:11.040 whatever. Monroe, Utah. Yeah. So she thinks it's funny. She records me getting my knife. And I,

00:03:16.840 you know, I get underneath the, uh, the little plant. I pull my knife out and we giggle. Ha ha ha.

00:03:22.840 She posted online for whatever reason. First off, I'm not the only guy. I came to that conclusion

00:03:29.020 really quick. Like how many people were like, dude, I do that all the time. Yeah. Some of the

00:03:34.440 comments are really funny. Like, Oh, I did that with my Glock last week. And I was like,

00:03:38.020 I almost had to do that when I was going to Hawaii. I almost, uh, last a couple of years ago where I

00:03:43.500 almost, cause I was at the airport and I almost had to, the case that I had, they said, you can't

00:03:49.040 use this case. It's not TSA approved. And I was like, well, what do I do then? You know? And she

00:03:55.360 said, you can go to sportsman's it's open in five minutes or something. And I'm like, well, my plane

00:03:59.640 leaves in 30, so that's not going to work. Yeah. So I'm like, do I just go chuck this thing

00:04:04.440 somewhere on airport grounds? And then I thought, no, somebody's going to find it, kill somebody

00:04:08.720 with it. And then they're going to trace it back to me. Yeah. So I actually went to the police

00:04:13.240 office in the airport and I said, Hey, can I turn this gun in thinking I'd never get it back? And

00:04:19.180 the guy's like, yeah, here, turn it in, fill out your, your paperwork or whatever. And I did.

00:04:23.240 And he said, just come in when you get back and we'll give it back to you. I'm like, Oh,

00:04:26.640 so it actually ended up working out. Yeah. Yeah. So it was going there. Yeah. It was,

00:04:32.360 it just went viral. I guess it was relatable obviously to a bunch of people, but it's kind

00:04:36.840 of funny. I was having a conversation yesterday about that post. It's like, man, everyone has

00:04:40.940 a freaking opinion about everything, right? Like people are getting in an argument with my wife. 1.00

00:04:45.680 Oh, that doesn't mean he's a hillbilly. I'm like, dude, she's razzing me about being a moron, 1.00

00:04:51.300 right? Like the definition of hillbilly, like let it go. And then it's really interesting. 1.00

00:04:57.380 I've seen a lot of the comments with foreign individuals that aren't Americans immediately

00:05:03.220 latched onto I'm inciting violence by carrying a knife. And I'm just like, Whoa, like, and they're

00:05:10.980 like, man, if you were man enough, you would learn a martial art and not have to carry a knife. You

00:05:15.880 know, I'm like, dude, these guys are morons, right? It's like, I don't carry a knife for really 1.00

00:05:20.520 self-defense. I carry it just because I can't count how many times I need that thing. And to be honest

00:05:24.920 with you, that's so dangerous to bring a knife to a fight anyway. But, but nonetheless, it's funny

00:05:29.900 how it just triggers people. Knife stew. Apparently I had no idea people would be triggered by someone

00:05:35.460 carrying a knife, but well, you know, I, it is interesting. Like you said, everybody has an

00:05:40.000 opinion and it's all just performative and outrageous and everything else. Um, several months

00:05:46.920 ago I went and got a DEXA scan. And if you don't know what that is, it measures all your body fat

00:05:51.880 percentage, muscle mass, all that kind of stuff. Super cool. And she said, Hey, you need to take

00:05:56.080 off anything metal that you have in your pockets or your belt and your boot, like anything metal you

00:06:00.580 need to take off. So I'm like, cool. So I take my keys out and my wallet and my, like, I think I took

00:06:05.560 my boots off. I took my belt off cause I had the metal belt buckle. Then I took my knife out, you know,

00:06:09.660 and I've, I've got it right here. So I took my knife out and I just set it on the counter and she's 0.76

00:06:13.920 like, what's that? I'm like, it's my knife. And she's like, I couldn't tell if she was joking or I think

00:06:19.260 she was serious, but she said, what do you do? Like run around stabbing people all day, every day.

00:06:24.540 And I was like, what? And she's like, well, why do you have a knife? Like, do you need it for self

00:06:29.460 defense? I'm like, no, I've never needed it for self defense, but sometimes I pick my teeth with it.

00:06:34.660 Sometimes I might need to cut a zip tie. Sometimes there might be a rock stuck in the sole of my,

00:06:40.560 the tread of my shoe and I need to pick it out of there. Sometimes somebody else needs me to cut

00:06:45.360 something. There was an infinite number of reasons, but she couldn't fathom. That's what,

00:06:50.200 that, that is why a man would have a knife. She just jumped to what am I going to do? Stab somebody 1.00

00:06:54.520 with it. That's not a thing I really even consider actually. Yeah. It was, it's fascinating, isn't it?

00:07:00.940 Like I've never thought carrying a knife meant violence. No, no, but I mean, you could if you had

00:07:09.200 to, right. Yeah. I actually was on a trip one time where, um, I felt pretty, I felt a lot of fear in

00:07:18.720 this moment, more so than I ever have. We were at, uh, we did the, um, have a soup by falls hike years

00:07:24.700 and years ago. So awesome. And it's amazing. But you go through this, this, uh, I guess it's Navajo 1.00

00:07:32.320 village reservation. Yeah. It's the reservation. Have a soup by tribe. Yeah. They have a soup. I

00:07:37.060 try. Oh, have a, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. So we're going through and, um, they,

00:07:41.400 they manage the, the registrations, the admission, cause it's on their land. And so we go through and

00:07:45.840 I've got my knife. I always do. And we have a great weekend and we're hiking back out and you have to

00:07:50.520 hike out later in the evening. Cause you want to hike in the dark cause it's way too hot during the day

00:07:56.580 in the summer. So we're going through this back through the village and the village is notorious

00:08:02.260 sketchy and dangerous. Yeah. And I, it's getting dark and I'm seeing some guys that I don't like

00:08:11.000 the look of. And I just felt, and there there's me and a couple of the guys and a couple of our,

00:08:16.320 uh, the women, you know, like my, my ex was with me and their wives were with them and

00:08:20.900 it just felt sketchy. And I remember this is the only time I've ever done it. I grabbed my knife

00:08:26.320 and I opened it and I just kept it by my leg as I was walking through like, man, if somebody,

00:08:32.260 and I, you know, I didn't flash around or wave it around. I just had it at the ready

00:08:36.080 on my side. That's the only time I've ever done that. But what was interesting is we walked a

00:08:40.880 little bit further and, uh, a Havasu, uh, sheriff or police officer said, Hey, what are you guys

00:08:50.300 doing? We're like, we're, we're hiking out. We're going back home. And they're like, he's like,

00:08:55.820 you guys got to get out of here. And we're like, what? Why? He's like, there's like,

00:09:00.380 everybody's shooting each other at the bar. We're like, everybody's shooting each other

00:09:06.900 at the bar. He's like, yeah, there's a big bar fight and everybody's just trying to shoot each

00:09:10.160 other. And we're like, Holy crap. So let's start hiking faster. Yeah. We night tailed out of there 0.99

00:09:16.040 and got out of there when it was fine. But yeah, it was, it was wild. Yeah. And for everyone

00:09:20.220 listening to this is, this is out in the middle of nowhere. Like you're down, you're literally

00:09:25.520 like down in the bottom of the grand Canyon, 10 miles away, no roads. The only quick way

00:09:33.080 out is a helicopter. And those are typically scheduled. So there is no like, say, you know,

00:09:41.300 call 911. I'll get some help. I mean, you're on your own down in. Yeah. And it was a big

00:09:47.160 drunken shoot saloon shootout in the, in the village down by Havasu.

00:09:53.860 Well, enough Jack and jaw. Let's get into some questions. Uh, I think we're talking today

00:09:59.140 specifically about purpose, mission, being driven direction, that sort of thing. So anxious to dive

00:10:04.260 into it. What a great conversation too, man. As we, you know, we talk about the end of year,

00:10:10.200 it's good time assess, you know, look at things. And I don't know, I'm, I'm excited about some of

00:10:15.220 these questions that the, that the guys have posed for us here. So we're going to jump over to the,

00:10:19.600 um, iron council first, and then we'll kind of dabble in, in Facebook, Tony Marino as a new

00:10:25.940 member of the iron council. What are some words of wisdom in terms of getting the most out of this

00:10:31.080 framework, anything to avoid specifically, or might not seem like a bad habit that could kill results

00:10:38.820 before traction even starts. Now, I actually love this because it does tie to purpose direction

00:10:44.980 and meaning because I know you well enough, uh, of how that, how that's going to tie in.

00:10:50.520 Yeah. And maybe I'll hit on that. I don't, I don't know. I don't know what you're referring to,

00:10:53.700 but one thing I would say is whenever you learn a new system and you have faith that that system

00:11:00.820 is going to be in your best interest, then follow the system. What, what too many men will do. And I

00:11:07.860 fall prey to this is we will engage in a new system. Maybe we hire a coach. Maybe we join a

00:11:13.960 brotherhood like the iron council. Maybe we do some group coaching or go to a course or pick up a

00:11:19.140 new planning tool or something. And we immediately filter it through our lens of behavior and mindset.

00:11:28.520 And the problem with that is that your level of thinking got you to the results that you are right

00:11:35.100 now. And you would not be engaged in the iron council or a course or a program or an event or a

00:11:39.860 conference. If you weren't interested in learning something, you didn't already know. So the trap

00:11:45.660 of joining these programs is to pick and choose like a, like a smorgasbord or a buffet line. Like I like

00:11:53.420 that. I don't like that. I like that. I don't like that. If you're going to do that, just don't invest in

00:11:59.020 it. If it's a proven system, you have faith that it'll work and you feel comfortable that it's going to

00:12:06.520 move you in the right direction. Then what you ought to do is follow it to the nth degree. And

00:12:11.220 the iron council has proven time and time again, through the systems that we use to help men lose 0.98

00:12:17.660 weight, to help men make more money, to have better relationships with their kids and their friends

00:12:22.420 and their wives. So the trap is doing it your own way. Imagine being recruited from as a, as a top

00:12:32.340 football prospect. And you're going to go to one of the top football programs in college football

00:12:38.200 programs in the nation. And you get there and you're really excited. They've got a winning track

00:12:42.280 record. They've got a great program. Uh, the coach is, has got a great reputation and they just build

00:12:48.160 great football programs. And you walk in and you're like, Hey, you know, I know you guys have a track

00:12:53.320 record of success. And you know, I know you've got Heisman trophy winners and I know you've,

00:12:57.840 you've got rings and everything else, but I, I just want to tell you, I think I'm going to infuse

00:13:03.660 some of my own thinking and I'm going to do about 80% of what you guys say. And the other 20%,

00:13:08.280 I'm just going to come up with on my own on the fly. Cool. How, how long would you last in that

00:13:15.240 program? Zero days. They'd laugh you out of the, off the field on day one. And not that we'll laugh

00:13:21.080 you off the field by any means. That's not what I'm saying, but follow the system. Even if you don't

00:13:25.980 fully comprehend or understand or believe in it, just follow, have some faith, follow the system

00:13:31.140 to the nth degree and let it work the way it's worked for other people. That's what I would say.

00:13:37.040 Yeah. The, the only thing I'd add for Tony in, in the spirit of kind of our subject this,

00:13:42.140 this week around purpose, direction, and meaning is get clear on the purpose. I find it fascinating

00:13:48.940 how often, you know, goal setters will be like, Oh, I want to do this. I want to, why?

00:13:53.280 Why? Like literally why? Just so you can say, is, is it validation? Like why ask the question? Why?

00:14:02.680 So then that way we can connect to something a lot more powerful than just like, Oh, I want to run a

00:14:09.300 marathon, right? It's gotta be bigger. It needs to move, touch and inspire you. And usually that's in

00:14:14.340 the space of purpose, meaning, and direction. So get really clear, Tony, when you're working on your

00:14:20.300 battle plan, work with your team, ask yourself, why, why am I doing this? And making sure that

00:14:25.500 you're not just doing it because well, everyone else had that on their 12 week goal plan. So maybe

00:14:31.080 I should too. That's not strong enough. You need to get a little bit deeper than that. And that will

00:14:35.840 help the momentum and the consistency that Ryan's talking about. Well, and everybody, you often hear

00:14:42.080 that when you struggle with something, go back to your purpose, go back to your why. And there is value

00:14:48.680 in that, but it's so, it's so cliche at this point that it's almost lost a lot of its weight. So I

00:14:54.840 don't want to discount that side of it. But one thing I do want to draw attention to is when you

00:14:59.900 do have the purpose and the why and the reasons behind doing what you do, then you can take your

00:15:04.320 battle plan, which if you're not watching on YouTube, I'm holding up right here and you can

00:15:08.420 start putting things in there, whether it's daily tasks or your non-negotiables or the goals and

00:15:14.200 objectives you have for the quarter. And you can really ask yourself, is this activity moving me

00:15:22.360 in the right direction at the most efficient pace? And if it isn't, then I need to change my tactics,

00:15:29.560 but you're not changing your tactics in your way of being just based on a whim, just based on how you

00:15:35.280 might feel on any given day. No, you're using your vision, your purpose as a litmus test for whether

00:15:40.860 or not those activities are going to drive you to where you want to go. So yeah, it is good to have

00:15:46.120 a why because when you're having a hard day, it's good to fall on that. But it's also good as a compass

00:15:51.360 or a map or a combination of both to make sure what you're doing is actually moving you in the right

00:15:55.640 direction. Totally. I love that. You know, another thing came up for Tony that I, that I think, you know,

00:16:02.000 I remember giving this advice to guys in the IC in the past. And so I'll give this to you, Tony.

00:16:07.740 Tony, sometimes you'll have this vision. We'll have our five-year plan. You'll have,

00:16:13.660 you'll be clear on all this and you still don't want to do it. Yeah. And sometimes the win today

00:16:19.240 is I'm going to do it. Why? Cause I said I would. And sometimes that's why you need to execute is

00:16:28.000 because you gave a commitment, you made a commitment to yourself and other individuals that you're going

00:16:33.220 to do something. And sometimes that needs to be just good enough. So latch onto that if you have

00:16:39.700 to. Well, that is the ultimate form of accountability. You know, that's one of the

00:16:44.020 words that gets thrown around a lot as a buzzword, accountability, accountability, accountability.

00:16:47.820 And usually when people say it, they're asking for a system or they're asking for other people to

00:16:52.140 keep them in check. And there's value to that. And you should use those concepts, but the real

00:16:57.880 accountability that were, I should say the deepest, strongest source of accountability is because I

00:17:04.420 said so. Yeah. Just like you said, if you can get to, because I said, so you have reached the

00:17:11.220 pinnacle of accountability and it diminishes. So don't think just because you've reached the

00:17:14.900 pinnacle, you're there. You have to keep maintaining that as well. Yeah. Good point. All right. Dustin

00:17:19.900 Stokes. I see so many guys create visions. This is interesting. Actually, I read this question

00:17:25.180 earlier and we'll have to kind of digest this a little bit. So Dustin Stokes, I see so many guys

00:17:29.640 create visions that are really just listing out character attributes. I'm a man that has integrity

00:17:35.520 or I'm a man that works out and trains daily. But what I tend to see is that these are the things that

00:17:42.440 takes to become the man they want, but they tend to not dictate what they want the end results to be,

00:17:50.360 which is actually what their vision and purpose are. What do you think, or why do you think it's

00:17:56.240 so hard for men to dictate the vision for themselves? And what strategies have you seen

00:18:00.880 where it really is effective for specific guys in their lives? And we'll just wrap up there.

00:18:07.600 So there's a lot to unpack here, but when you're thinking about your vision, there's really two ways

00:18:14.400 to do it. And both are valuable and both have merit. One is goal-based and that's really what

00:18:20.840 he's talking about. I want to, I want to have 50 acres of land and I want to be a homesteader and I

00:18:27.000 want to raise livestock. And I want to have this beautiful 5,000 square foot home. And I want to have

00:18:34.580 three kids and we want to have horses and we want to have this car. And that's great. That's a goal-based

00:18:39.560 vision. That's, there's nothing wrong with that at all. And you also have a value-based vision and a

00:18:46.720 value-based is I'm going to be humble. I'm going to be honest. I'm going to be diligent, a hard worker.

00:18:54.580 I'm going to be a man of service to other people. And that's the, how that's what he's talking about.

00:18:59.780 And again, that has merit. So really the, the point of a vision is to do whatever moves you

00:19:06.240 in the right direction, in the most powerful way. You said that it, I think you said it touches and

00:19:12.860 inspires you, I think is what you said. And if it's vision-based or excuse me, values-based, great.

00:19:17.780 If it's goals-based, great. But I will say this probably a combination of both, but I do agree with

00:19:24.520 you that it's very difficult for men to articulate goal-based visions. And I have a theory as to why that

00:19:30.600 is. And my theory is, is from the time that we were little boys, we have been taught and conditioned

00:19:37.340 to not be selfish, to sacrifice for the greater good of other people and humanity, to not put our

00:19:46.040 needs above anybody else's, to not be prideful or arrogant. And these all also have merit, but that

00:19:54.860 concept taken to the nth degree makes it very difficult for us to say, Hey, I want to make sure I'm

00:20:00.520 taken care of too. And how often do we see this in relationships where men won't say what they 0.76

00:20:06.320 want to their significant others. They'll just suffer in silence for years, even decades. And

00:20:13.400 they'll say, I'm not supposed to do that. I'm supposed to be a leader. I'm supposed to sacrifice.

00:20:18.140 I'm supposed to keep my head down. I'm supposed to bury my thoughts. I'm not supposed to share those

00:20:22.580 things. And even there's situations in romantic relationships where the minute a man shares what he

00:20:29.640 needs, he's looked at as weak. Oh, you need attention. Kind of man needs attention. Now.

00:20:35.540 I don't think a woman's going to say it as overtly as that, but that's what her messaging is. If a guy 0.99

00:20:40.440 says, Hey, babe, you know, I, I really want to, I really need this from you. I need for you to

00:20:47.860 acknowledge what I'm doing to, to lead the family. I really want to be physically intimate with you.

00:20:55.380 I really want to connect on a deeper level. And she's like, well, I mean, all the time,

00:21:02.120 all the time, you know, every time something doesn't go your way, you tell me about all the

00:21:06.640 things that you need. And so what ends up happening is she, and I don't think she's being malicious,

00:21:11.260 but she ends up shutting a man down. And so he buries it and he stuffs it. And then she says,

00:21:15.840 why doesn't he share his emotions? Why doesn't he connect with me? Why do I feel disconnected?

00:21:21.960 I really want a man who's in touch with himself, who, who understands his emotions. It could have

00:21:28.080 been your man, but every time he tried to bring something up, you shut them down, probably in a

00:21:33.900 polite way, probably in a tactful way, probably in a way that you thought was not really that big of a

00:21:38.960 deal, but it was a big deal. And people are conditioned to keep their mouth shut based on

00:21:44.620 the way people respond to what they say. And there's a proper way for a man to communicate his needs,

00:21:49.160 but that's why that's my theory anyways. Yeah. And so anytime you sit down to say, I want this,

00:21:56.140 this, this, this, and this, your mom, when you were a little boy says, ah, don't be selfish. And

00:22:01.260 your teacher says, oh, you know, you got to play like a good little boy and share. And all these,

00:22:06.220 these scripts and ideas and concepts that are good in, on some level play in our minds. And we say,

00:22:15.860 I don't deserve to be happy. I don't deserve the white picket fence and the property in the

00:22:22.960 homestead. I, you know, that's selfish. I need to serve other people. And there's elements of truth

00:22:29.040 to both, but that's why it's so hard for men. I think agree, disagree, or some nuance based on

00:22:34.800 your perspective. No, I, I totally agree. I think there's more to it though, too, right? Like,

00:22:40.920 I think that's all a hundred percent true. And then I think on top of it, I can't help, but

00:22:46.380 think of guys that have goals and to say, I want this homestead. I want these acres. I want,

00:22:50.520 you know, this house, I want to accomplish these things. And then that work, what they're not present

00:22:55.580 to is why, what is it that you think you're going to get by having said acreage? Cause there's

00:23:05.040 something, and it's not acreage. In some cases, most people are operating from the space of

00:23:11.100 validation and importance and meaning. And they think said things might give them that.

00:23:17.760 And then you'll get high achievers that just keep chasing and they're empty. And so, and I don't,

00:23:23.840 and I'm not even suggesting that this is what Dustin's getting at in his question, but, but I think

00:23:29.040 this is another element for us to consider. I mean, the analogy I always use Ryan is, you know,

00:23:34.920 when we're, if we think about when we're younger, you know, I remember this going to college. And I

00:23:39.740 remember thinking, I saw my dad's check once of what he got from the coal mine. And I remember

00:23:45.760 thinking I did the math. And of course I was too ignorant and stupid to realize there's taxes and 1.00

00:23:50.400 other things involved, but I did the math and I looked at his check and I went 40 K got it. 0.99

00:23:55.520 That's my objective. By the time I graduate college, I want to be making what the old man

00:24:02.080 is making right now. And that was my goal. But why was that my goal? I wasn't self-aware enough to

00:24:10.260 even understand what that meant that I wanted that. Why? Because that meant then I would be equal or

00:24:17.920 better than him, that that would make me a man, that that would make me a provider, right? Like there is

00:24:25.000 loaded meaning around that goal. And I don't think we get to the depth of that understanding

00:24:32.480 mostly because most of us are not self-aware enough to realize why we're chasing what we're

00:24:38.780 chasing. And, and I think a lot of guys in the, I see a lot of high achieving men are high achieving

00:24:44.940 because there's this unspoken outcome that they think they're going to get by achieving said thing.

00:24:51.980 Hmm. And they haven't unpackaged the meaning around it enough to understand what they're chasing.

00:24:59.940 And, and, and I think it's important that we do it because if we don't, then what's up happening is

00:25:04.380 I'm achieving, achieving, achieving, and I'm empty and I still feel empty and I still feel lonely. And I,

00:25:11.800 you know, and I'm not getting those things. Why? Because the thing I was really wanting

00:25:17.400 is strong connection relationship with my family members. And it wasn't on the backside of

00:25:23.760 achievement. It was actually on the backside of just being present with them. And I was chasing the

00:25:28.520 wrong thing. Right. So I think we need to consider that. Yeah. And the interesting thing Kip about that

00:25:35.320 is that if you get clear and present to why you want the thing that you want,

00:25:40.820 you might actually realize that you can have that right now. You know, I think for example,

00:25:49.540 one, one word you used was significance, right? I think there's a lot of men who want to feel

00:25:53.700 significant and there's nothing wrong with that. We do want to be significant. We do want to be

00:25:57.880 important. We do want to be valuable in other people's lives. And I woke up this morning and

00:26:03.680 as, as I, as I normally do, my son gets up earlier than me and, and I had our iron council call and I

00:26:11.000 told him, Hey, I'll be out an hour. And I came out and I said, Hey, let's go to the store and get a

00:26:15.340 donut. We usually do that two or three days a week. So we went and got a donut. We came back and he's

00:26:20.360 like, Hey, can we work on some Lego boxes in the, in the, in my room? Like, yeah, sure. And so we,

00:26:27.060 we were doing this thing where we cut the Lego boxes up and then we put them all over the wall. So

00:26:30.940 his wall looks like Lego wallpaper, just Lego wallpaper. That's kind of cool. It's actually

00:26:36.180 really cool. It looks cool. I have a stroke every time I walk into his room, but it still looks

00:26:40.300 really cool. All the colors and everything. I'm like, but, um, I thought this morning about

00:26:46.740 significance a little bit. And that's something I chase and pursue. Even with this movement, I want

00:26:51.860 to be significant to a lot of men. Yeah. And then I thought to myself, as I was putting this Lego box

00:26:57.600 wallpaper up with him, I'm significant right now to him. Yeah. Me spending half an hour putting up

00:27:07.440 Lego wallpaper or going to get a donut and singing Christmas songs, which is what we did. That's

00:27:13.540 significant or other conversations. You know, I had a conversation with my, my mom yesterday and,

00:27:20.500 you know, we were both talking about things that we're both dealing with. And that's like,

00:27:23.960 I'm significant to her. I think I'm relatively significant to you and to other people in my

00:27:30.740 life. We already have it. And I wish more of us could see that we already have what we're

00:27:36.560 secretly pursuing. I should say subconsciously pursuing.

00:27:42.620 Totally. Well, and we see this with, if you know me, I'm always like in the context of leadership.

00:27:49.080 Yeah. So, but like, it's a great example. You do. You say it just like that. It sounds just like

00:27:53.500 that. Um, you think your influence as a leader is, or your significance as a leader is what being

00:28:04.180 smart. So, so we, we, we go, Oh, you know, I know all this stuff and we think that creates

00:28:12.160 significance. People don't give a crap about what you know. Yeah. Guess what? Most people care 0.97

00:28:17.300 about that. You care. That's it. They don't care how smart you are. What makes them feel

00:28:24.600 valid. What, what makes them see your significance is that you serve them, that you poured into them.

00:28:31.020 That's where real influence and significance comes is through service, not through a degree,

00:28:37.360 not through your intellect, not through those other things. Those things are superficial to most of us.

00:28:43.080 So, and, but it's funny because we, we don't do that. We think, Oh man, if I, if I, if I retire and

00:28:49.780 I'm a billionaire, then I'll have significance. And then, you know, this as much as I know this,

00:28:54.200 have you met high caliber people? And, and from a distance from 30,000 feet, I'm like, Oh my gosh,

00:29:00.120 that person's so significant. And then you get to know them and then you go, yeah, I kind of don't

00:29:05.520 like them that much. Why? Oh, because that superficial stuff actually in the end didn't

00:29:13.720 matter. And what really matters is what kind of human they are, their kind of character and how

00:29:19.700 they show up in your relationship with them. It's fascinating to me, but yet we, we seek out the

00:29:25.520 superficial. Well, and the other thing about these highly successful individuals with very few,

00:29:31.300 few exceptions, if any, the high value people that we're referring to lead with service.

00:29:38.400 They lead with value. That's why they're successful as a family man or as a spiritual man or as a

00:29:46.020 entrepreneur. It's because they get the concept of value. I had a great experience just the other day.

00:29:50.940 A lot of you guys know Bedros Koulian and Bedros is a really good friend of mine. He's been with me

00:29:55.620 through thick and thin and he's been available if I need to talk with him. And he was one of the first

00:29:59.740 guys I called when I was talking about going through my divorce and, and, you know, he never

00:30:04.780 had any judgment towards me. He's like, yeah, you messed up. Here's how you messed up. But it was

00:30:09.080 judgment free. And he said, let's figure out what we can do to fix it. And, um, I had a question about

00:30:14.580 managing our order of man store the other day and I reached out to him. He's busy, highly successful.

00:30:20.480 He's busy. He's got businesses he's running. He's got entrepreneurs he's working with. He's got

00:30:24.440 coaching clients. I mean, he's busy. He's got a family. I'm like, man, I don't want to bother him. I'm like,

00:30:29.520 don't bother him. Like he's your friend. So I sent him a message and I, it was just a voice message.

00:30:34.260 And I said, Hey, I have some questions about my business. And here's the, and I was respectful.

00:30:37.760 You know, I didn't ask him all the questions. I just asked him one question or two. And he sent me

00:30:42.100 a 90 second message back, answered my question immediately. And then I had one other follow-up

00:30:47.720 question. He messaged me back. It was like a two minute voice memo, listened to it, answered my

00:30:52.760 question, got it resolved. And I thought, that's why B is successful. That's why he's successful

00:30:59.660 because I thought I was going to be a burden to him and I wasn't. And he seemed genuinely

00:31:05.200 happy and proud to be able to give me some advice on something that he's skilled at and high value

00:31:11.000 people act that way in my experience. Yeah. Love it. Will Luna, where do you find the balance between

00:31:18.380 who you need to be at work at home and in the community? And how do you recognize when enough

00:31:24.840 is enough? What do you think he means by when, when enough is enough, like pouring into it too much or

00:31:31.620 yes, it could mean two things. Dual meaning here. I think it could mean that you have enough that you

00:31:39.980 should just be content and satisfied with what you have. So there's that could mean that. I think it

00:31:46.000 does mean that. Another thing that it could mean is that you're just so overwhelmed and stressed

00:31:52.120 because you have so much going on and you're constantly saying yes to everything that you're

00:31:56.380 feeling overwhelmed and you're starting to drop over balls that you've been juggling. Uh-huh. Yeah.

00:32:02.000 So, you know, the balance of who you need to be, I've had this conversation over and over again,

00:32:07.140 and I don't know if somebody shared this with me or if it was my own, you know, clever insight. I'm sure

00:32:12.040 it's a combination of a lot of people sharing insight with me over the years. And I don't look

00:32:17.920 at balance as some state of being, but most people do. I need to find balance, meaning they need to

00:32:26.340 find the proper distribution of resources. And once they find that magic formula for them,

00:32:34.280 everything's wonderful. Relationships, awesome. Intimacy there. Career's going well. Kids are

00:32:41.220 satisfied and happy. You're making the games. You're doing all your stuff at work. And it just

00:32:46.040 doesn't work like that. It just does not work like that. And I think there's two types of people when

00:32:53.360 it comes to balance. There's the people who are not in balance at all ever. And some of those people

00:33:01.020 are ultra, ultra successful in their field. I think of somebody like Cam Haynes, ultra successful

00:33:09.100 endurance athlete, ultra successful Hunter. You've got David Goggins, ultra successful with

00:33:17.840 the mindset and the discipline and the physical fitness. And then of course, you've got, you know,

00:33:23.380 like Khabib and Conor McGregor and these, these characters in the UFC, incredible athletes,

00:33:30.180 incredibly talented in the world of martial arts. But what I've experienced, I'll tell you this firsthand,

00:33:34.700 because I've done, I think 580 interviews with highly successful men in their chosen field.

00:33:40.760 A lot of these guys, they don't balance at all. They are just hyper-focused on the one thing to hell

00:33:48.800 with everything else. And they struggle because of that, but they know it and they've made that

00:33:53.760 decision. So that's one type of person. Then you have another type of person. And this is the guy that I

00:33:59.020 try to be where I am not in balance, but I'm constantly trying to be balanced.

00:34:07.500 And what that means is that based on the environment around me, I'm going to need to change

00:34:12.540 where I deploy my time, energy, money, attention, et cetera. So if my, if one of my children is really

00:34:19.720 struggling, then I need to spend a lot of time pouring into my child. And that means the business

00:34:26.480 might take a bit of a back burner. If, if my business is struggling or we're on a big new

00:34:33.900 assignment or task or deadline, then I might have to pour more into that for a time being. And other

00:34:39.440 things like maybe my physical fitness take a little bit of a back burner. And so it's constant movement

00:34:45.380 based on the environment and based on the circumstances that you find yourself in. That's

00:34:51.680 what it means to balance. So I can't tell you the formula is 50% here, 27% here, 32% there.

00:34:58.620 I think that equals 110%. So you can't even do that, but point taken, hopefully it's, it's constantly

00:35:06.420 evaluating your circumstances. And the best way to do that is have a method for doing it.

00:35:12.940 That's the battle plan. Um, that's morning visualization. That's planning and mapping out

00:35:18.400 your day. That's having difficult conversations with your spouse and your employer and your

00:35:22.440 clients. So you can all get on the same page because when you start to do that, then you realize,

00:35:27.560 Oh, I do need to deploy a little bit more over here. Or I do need to deploy a little less over here.

00:35:33.220 Um, and you'll find out too, with the enough is enough when it starts to get in the way of your

00:35:38.980 priorities and your vision. We already talked about that part of it. So if, if you're,

00:35:44.560 if you're chasing dollars and you've already got what you need to be satisfied and happy or content

00:35:51.660 or make a difference, like we were talking about, then you're chasing things for the wrong reason.

00:35:58.620 Yeah. But it starts with vision.

00:36:01.900 One thing to consider, Will, you know, this idea of work versus home versus community is,

00:36:09.420 is kind of a new concept that showed up with the industrial age back in the day. It was

00:36:16.900 go outside and work and guess who you go to work with, with dad or mom or whoever. Yeah. And with mom,

00:36:25.200 then you come back to the house and then you do home like you're doing it all, all the time. It's,

00:36:30.340 it's a family event. And I, and I actually think I would encourage you and others to make it,

00:36:37.660 let's go back to that, right? Community is important to you. Bring your kids along,

00:36:43.300 show them how community is important. Your community is important to the family, not to you.

00:36:48.260 Oh, work. I got to work. Yeah. You know what? Bring the kids along too. Let them see you work.

00:36:55.160 Don't let there be this work versus home. No, bring along. I, we've had this conversation years ago.

00:37:01.680 I think you gave me this advice, but there's a big difference. Let me say it this way. When I do work

00:37:08.040 and my kids don't know what's happening at work, then it's work versus them. But when I enlist them

00:37:14.760 in what I'm doing and they understand how work plays a role in family, we're doing it together.

00:37:21.920 They're sacrificing with me. So involve them. And this way we don't have this, you know, I don't

00:37:32.120 know, these lines, these unnecessary lines and buckets of what life looks like. And let's be

00:37:37.320 honest, probably all our kids need that a lot more, right? They need to see it being modeled. They need

00:37:43.220 to understand how work integrates. They need to see your work ethic. And, and I think the better we

00:37:49.640 integrate them into those things, the better off your kids are going to be anyway. And in,

00:37:54.960 and it will reduce this poll right between one or the other, because you can integrate,

00:38:00.160 integrate family into all the other things that are equally important.

00:38:04.440 Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I, when you were talking about that, one thing you often hear

00:38:09.020 or say yourself is, Oh, my kids will understand. No, they won't. You don't even understand. And you're

00:38:16.080 an adult. You don't understand what other people are thinking. You don't understand their

00:38:19.540 motives. I mean, how often have you also said simultaneously or the next breath? I don't

00:38:25.220 understand my wife. What is her problem? Why is she so difficult? Yeah. You don't understand. 0.99

00:38:30.500 You can understand human behavior, but you never fully know somebody's motives, intentions,

00:38:35.480 desires, dreams, wishes. And so you need to communicate so that you can understand.

00:38:40.900 And when you tell yourself that your kids will understand, unless you've bridged the gap by

00:38:45.720 involving them, by having conversations, by letting them see what sacrifice means,

00:38:50.560 they're going to start filling in the blanks. And anytime people make assumptions,

00:38:53.840 they're not favorable. When's the last time you made a favorable assumption about somebody?

00:39:00.260 Never. Anytime you assume something about somebody, it's that guy's an asshole. That guy's a dick. Why is 1.00

00:39:05.960 that guy being that way? Why does my boss act this way? Why is my wife being this way? Why it's always 1.00

00:39:11.680 negative when you assume. And then you have a conversation and with your wife, for example,

00:39:15.980 and you're like, Hey hon, is there something going on? You seem really bothered the last couple of

00:39:19.620 days. And she's like, yeah, I am bothered because this thing at work or the parents I'm working with

00:39:24.400 on the board for the football program are taking me off. You're like, Oh, okay. I didn't know that.

00:39:29.980 I just assumed what I don't know. Sometimes we're just like, I just assumed you were PMSing or

00:39:36.040 something. Right. It's like, we don't know, ask, talk about it, bring it up, use your words.

00:39:41.740 Yeah. Be curious. All right. Joshua, uh, Joshua trot or trot. I think we can get lost focusing on

00:39:50.320 the big M meaning. And we miss the daily moments of meaning that said, how would you advise people

00:39:56.900 to find meaning in the daily mundane? That's an interesting perspective. I think you should

00:40:03.720 probably have both. I hadn't really considered that till that got brought up, but having some

00:40:08.300 sense of, of overarching meaning, I think will make your day-to-day life more enjoyable or at least

00:40:18.220 more manageable when you're going through the hell because, well, let me say it this way. The longer

00:40:25.860 I extend my timeframe for my purpose for being on this earth, the better decisions I make.

00:40:35.380 Yeah. The longer I go out, if I'm thinking about a career choice, if I think about it over the next

00:40:43.540 three months, I'm tempted to just chase the dollar. Yeah. But if I think about it over 30 years,

00:40:49.880 not only am I considering the financial aspect of it, but also fulfillment and autonomy and

00:40:57.120 control and upward mobility and impact and all these other things in my life.

00:41:03.240 So I think having the big M like Joshua was saying is really important, but I do also agree that the

00:41:11.120 little M is important. You know, the, the moments of putting Lego box wallpaper on the thing with my

00:41:18.340 son and doing Christmas music and, or even having this conversation or celebrating some achievement

00:41:28.000 at work, even though it may have been really small and seemingly insignificant to other people,

00:41:33.460 it meant something to you. I remember this guy, I did a presentation in St. Louis about a month ago

00:41:38.840 and I was asking the guys, what factor of life gives them a sense of purpose and meaning?

00:41:45.280 Um, and you know, guys raised their hand and, and one said, Oh, my, my, uh, spiritual work gives me

00:41:52.220 meaning. And another person raised their hand. They said, my kids give me meaning. And somebody else

00:41:55.920 said, my wife brings meaning to my life. And they gave some really good answers and I believed all of

00:41:59.880 them. And then there was another guy and he raised his hand and I pointed to him and he said,

00:42:03.660 you know, I know this probably doesn't, it's not that big a deal. And I know for other people,

00:42:10.400 they might think it's silly, but I, my dog gives me meaning. He loves me. We spend time together.

00:42:15.800 I work on tricks with him. We, we, we travel together. And so my dog gives me meaning. I said,

00:42:20.120 Hey, can I just stop you right there for a second? He's like, yeah. I said, don't you ever discount

00:42:24.800 what brings you meaning? Who, who am I to say that your dog doesn't bring you meaning or that's not

00:42:33.820 significant enough or not big enough? Whom I to tell you that? And so I wish more of us would just

00:42:40.700 stop and smell the roses, so to speak. And I think part of the way to do that is to remember what the

00:42:46.800 big M is meaning and not inundate ourselves with things that detract from it. And that is why it's

00:42:55.460 important to have a vision and the battle plan and the objectives and the tactics, because again,

00:42:58.800 the way we started this conversation was I can use my vision or meaning in this case

00:43:04.660 to ask myself, does this extra board meeting serve me? Does this extra assignment at work

00:43:14.260 serve me? Does this extra job, does this different woman than I have right now, is it going to make my 1.00

00:43:21.600 life better? It's just a good way to strip everything from your life that does not matter.

00:43:29.860 Yeah. I love it, man. I always think of it as three things,

00:43:33.580 a healthy relationship with the past, which means that we've learned from it. We don't have regret

00:43:42.520 around it and we're not dragging it into the moment, right? Sometimes when we have an unhealthy

00:43:47.200 relationship with the past, we're proving right now that that's not true what happened. That's not

00:43:53.380 healthy, right? So a healthy relationship with the past, hope, big M for the future, hope of where I'm

00:44:01.660 going, direction of where I'm going, and then presence and gratitude in the moment. And I think

00:44:08.060 you kind of need all three. You need the direction of where you're going. You need to have learned from

00:44:13.320 the past because also learning from the past helps us be grateful, right? And present in the moment

00:44:18.600 and then be present with the now. And I really think when we think about the mundane, it's a lack

00:44:25.320 of presence. Like think of the typical things that are mundane for us. Oh, I go to the gym and I worked

00:44:31.780 and I drove in a car. Like you can look at the frame of all of that, all different. I had a strong

00:44:39.020 body. I'm capable. I went to this awesome gym and I could like strengthen my, uh, the body that God

00:44:48.880 gave me and, and honor my health. Oh, I was able to hop in a car and not walk 20 miles to work. Then I

00:44:56.820 sat in this amazing chair and connected with people across the internet in seconds, man, like the mundane

00:45:04.980 is not mundane. I really don't think it is. I think what would classify as a mundane is a lack

00:45:11.320 of being present of the amazingness of our day-to-day lives. And we just need to get way

00:45:18.180 more present and the mundane disappears. Have you, have you seen that when you were talking about on

00:45:25.100 the internet, how we can use the internet to connect with people? There's a, a sketch from,

00:45:30.160 uh, what's the name? Louis CK. Yeah. Well, about the airplane. Yeah. And they got the guy next to

00:45:37.100 him. Like the internet goes out. The guy next to him is like stupid internet. And, and Louis CK is

00:45:41.980 like, give it a second. It's going to space. He's like, how are you mad at something you didn't know

00:45:47.880 existed five minutes ago, but we all have done it. And it's just a reframe, you know, like one thing

00:45:54.680 that was interesting is when I was in, uh, Austin several weeks ago for a fundraising gala,

00:45:59.780 legends for leaders for the Apogee program with Matt Boudreau is I jumped on because we wanted to

00:46:06.240 get a Uber into town for dinner the night before. And it was better than driving into town ourselves.

00:46:11.820 And so I jumped on Uber and it says, you've been paired with a Waymo. And I'm like, I don't,

00:46:16.440 what is that? And I looked at it. It's an autonomous vehicle, 100% autonomous vehicle.

00:46:21.000 Wow. And, and, and it's like, would you like to do that? Or would you like a traditional ride?

00:46:24.840 I'm like, I don't know. Let's try it. And so, um, her and I, you know, scheduled the car,

00:46:31.080 it pulls up and you got to unlock it on your phone when it gets there and you hop in and

00:46:34.580 we opened the door. I opened the door. She hopped in, I hopped in beside her and it's like,

00:46:39.300 hello, Ryan, you're going to this restaurant. And I'm like, Ooh, this is crazy. This is the future

00:46:45.420 right now. That's when you put your seatbelt on. You're like, dude, am I going to get stuck in this

00:46:49.560 thing? It was, it was nervous. Yeah. And you know what? We drove around and it was amazing

00:46:55.880 how responsive it was and how there was something in the road and it actually swerved

00:47:01.100 and then came back in the lane. It was just, I don't even know, it could have been like a trash

00:47:05.340 bag or something. Um, it was watching out for pedestrians. Like it was crazy. And then we were

00:47:11.840 talking about it. We're like, Whoa, there's, there's probably accidents with this. And here's one

00:47:15.060 thing you don't think about technology is people say, Oh, they're dangerous. There's accidents in

00:47:18.840 them. Well, yeah, there are, but there's more accidents in cars where people drive. So yes,

00:47:24.860 it's dangerous, but by the data, it's significantly less dangerous and way more efficient by the way,

00:47:32.840 then, uh, people driving cars, which was interesting. And I don't know what got me

00:47:39.100 thinking about that, but technology is amazing. We live in this incredible time in human history

00:47:44.080 and, you know, we have our fair share of challenges we need to address, but there's a

00:47:48.740 lot to be grateful for. Yeah, absolutely. Do you have one more quick thought or doing your

00:47:55.160 rapid fire? Okay. We'll make this rapid. So Eddie, uh, Salzedo, he more or less was referencing the

00:48:02.420 podcast with Bedros that you did recently. And he quotes Bedros here saying your purpose is seldom

00:48:08.420 found. It's more built through action. And just your thoughts on that as we, as we wrap up.

00:48:15.020 Yeah. I mean, I, I agree with the premise of that. Brandon Mancine, who's in the iron council and one

00:48:19.660 of our leaders there and a great member and just a great man in general said something on our call

00:48:24.300 this morning that I, that I resonated with. Um, so your purpose is not found. It's found in what,

00:48:32.600 what was the quote that he said? Your purpose is not, is seldom found.

00:48:35.180 It's more built through action, not found. And Brandon, I'm paraphrasing, but Brandon said

00:48:41.100 it's more, I think he used the word identified or discovered, meaning that you start to explore

00:48:49.560 the fringes of your life and what seems interesting to you. So if you're a single man and you happen to

00:48:56.640 be a coworker with an attractive woman, how many guys will not approach that attractive woman? It's like,

00:49:02.940 man, you could have, you could have left an incredible relationship on the table because you were too

00:49:08.680 afraid or how many hobbies and activities and interests or trips have you wanted to go on or

00:49:13.800 businesses that you wanted to start. And you didn't because I'm busy because I don't have money because

00:49:19.420 I'll be less busy later because people won't like me because I might fail. Whoa, you just missed what

00:49:26.120 could have been something. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take

00:49:32.860 charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order

00:49:37.500 of man.com.

Order of Man - December 24, 2025

Men Carry Knives, Real Accountability, and Little Wins Matter ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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