Order of Man - Men's Tribalism, Using AI effectively, and What to Kill For

00:00:00.000 We do need to be authentic and it is okay for men to have bad days and it is okay for you to express

00:00:06.220 your emotions in a constructive and positive way. There's a lot of people that get this concept of

00:00:13.020 stoicism wrong, that it's the suppression of emotion. That's not how I interpret stoicism.

00:00:21.240 To me, it's understanding your emotions and then formulating a response or a behavior

00:00:27.220 that will move your life in the right direction. Kip, what's up, man? Great to have you here on this

00:00:33.720 Friday afternoon trying to close out the week and we've got a big lacrosse tournament. My two

00:00:38.840 oldest boys are big into lacrosse and they won their first game last night and my oldest had

00:00:43.340 10 points, so he had four goals and six assists, so he tore it up yesterday. He did really, really good

00:00:50.060 and he almost killed a kid, which was kind of hilarious. It's funny because there's a, since

00:00:55.120 it's a tournament, uh, the, the team that was playing next after them was on the, the sideline

00:01:02.600 that the teams aren't. In lacrosse, both teams are on the same side of the field, so the other

00:01:07.240 side of the field is completely open and so they were warming up and stuff on the other side

00:01:11.000 and lacrosse is cool because for the most part, teams are really cool to each other and they support

00:01:17.580 each other and they like to jack jaw, of course, and they're competitive, but they also like to cheer

00:01:22.340 each other on and, and my oldest Brecken laid this kid out, clean check, laid this, I mean,

00:01:27.740 absolutely like picked him up off the ground, decleted him, he fell down, he whacked the back

00:01:33.520 of his head and he kind of just like went limp and, um, all the guys on the sideline are like,

00:01:40.420 Ooh, that was awesome. And the kids just sprawled out almost unconscious laid there and he did get

00:01:46.060 up on his own volition. But I was like, I think my son just killed a kid. Yeah. I remember one of

00:01:53.400 my older boys, he played lacrosse and in his first year, um, it was funny because, you know,

00:02:00.540 he's enjoying it. Like he's, he's like, this is fun. And then he learns that he can actually check

00:02:05.300 people as long as he's holding the stick correctly. And then all of a sudden, like his face lit up,

00:02:10.260 he's like, ah, like his enjoyment in lacrosse drastically changed once you, once he realized

00:02:16.700 he could do that. Cause at first he was getting penalized and stuff. And he was like, this sucks.

00:02:21.360 And then he realized like, Oh, I just need to hold my stick correctly. You know?

00:02:25.320 I mean, that's all it is. Make sure the other player has the ball and then you can just whack

00:02:28.720 them as hard as you want. And just about any way, like you can't hit them in the head.

00:02:32.460 You got to have your hands together and there's things like that, but you could jab,

00:02:36.340 you could poke, check them, literally jab them in the stomach or the ribs. Like there's all sorts

00:02:40.760 of stuff that you, you can, uh, they call it a crowbar and, and Brecken did this to a kid last

00:02:46.420 year. And I did think the kid was dead or paralyzed, but he got a crowbar is when you get your stick

00:02:53.580 under their arms, the player's arms, and you lift them in the air. And so this is what he did. He got

00:02:59.880 it and he put it under his arms, lifted him in the air and basically powerbomb the kid. And the kid

00:03:04.740 just crumbled, just like withered and wilted. And I was behind the goal because I was taking

00:03:10.260 pictures. I'm like, Oh no, that kid is seriously hurt. And he, he did. He started to literally

00:03:17.720 crawl off the field and he eventually got back up and got back in the game. But man,

00:03:24.540 Brecken can be a, both of them actually Brecken and my, my second Eli can be real menaces and it's

00:03:31.440 really fun to see. Yeah. Brecken utilizes some of those power lifting techniques on the lacrosse

00:03:37.160 field. Puts it all into his legs, man. He's got a huge leg, a huge legs, a huge butt, and he can

00:03:43.040 just generate a lot of power from those things. So he knows how to use it. Oh man. That's good.

00:03:48.540 Is the tournament all day today and tomorrow, like just a three day kind of event? Three days. So

00:03:55.840 they've got one game this afternoon. It's Friday right now as of this recording. And then Saturday

00:03:59.600 tomorrow they've got two or three games all day tomorrow. So it'll be a busy weekend. It'll be a

00:04:04.560 lot of fun. Yeah. I love it, man. I love it. Well, we got some pretty good listener questions.

00:04:09.620 Yeah. I was just going to say that. Yeah. We got some good questions. So let's just kind of chat into

00:04:14.080 these. So, uh, Danny, uh, Skolnick, he says, how much AI chat GPT assistance do each of you use to write

00:04:22.520 your material in emails, marketing, or social media? And, and he's asking around, you know, writing

00:04:28.940 materials, maybe we just expand a little bit. Um, even AI use for other things, even not content

00:04:36.320 creation. Um, I actually don't use, I've, I've never really used AI for content creation. Like I

00:04:45.340 don't, I don't make a social media post using AI. Um, I don't, I don't think I ever have. I have been

00:04:51.780 accused of that. It's interesting because I had a post a week or two ago and I used a hyphen and it was

00:04:58.700 an appropriate use of a hyphen and somebody had commented back. Yeah. Right. So somebody commented

00:05:05.080 back and like, Oh, that's AI. I'm like, what makes you say that? And she said, well, because

00:05:09.540 of the hyphen, that's not how people talk. I'm like, well, that is how people talk. And that is

00:05:13.560 the appropriate use of a hyphen. And this is not AI generated. She's like, Oh, I'm sorry. Like she was

00:05:17.920 cool about it. She's like, it's so weird that we even have to consider whether something was

00:05:21.700 created or whether it was generated in AI, but I don't, I don't use it that way. I think it's a

00:05:27.680 little disingenuous, but I have used it for researching podcast guests. That's been a

00:05:34.740 tremendous use for me is podcast guests. Um, also generating some additional ideas or fleshing

00:05:42.140 out a Friday field notes. And, you know, I might come up with a topic and say, okay, this is the

00:05:47.260 angle, you know, give me a couple of bullet points that I hadn't considered, or can you give

00:05:52.600 me some statistics on this talking point? So I've definitely used it for that. Um, and then

00:06:00.220 just clarification, even if I see, see a post that I'm from somebody else that I questioned,

00:06:05.960 I fact check with AI. And, and so like, Hey, is this true? Or what about this is true? Or am I

00:06:12.140 missing something here? I'll even put my own filter, my own comments and commentary through it.

00:06:17.440 And I'll say, okay, what did I get right? What did I get wrong? And that it's kind of interesting.

00:06:22.240 You know, there's some unique perspective there that I, that I enjoy.

00:06:25.520 Yeah. I use a similar, I mean, I I'll usually create content and then I'm like,

00:06:32.000 word this better. Or like, I remember I did a keynote a couple months ago and it was just so

00:06:38.600 like typical keynote BS, you know, I'm so amazing by the way. And I'm like, I don't like it. And so I

00:06:44.660 put the whole thing into chat GPT and said, rewrite this bio in a way that's funny. And I pokes out,

00:06:52.300 like pokes at my elements of my, uh, youth and my upbringing and have fun with it. And it came up

00:06:59.720 with some clever things. I'm like, Oh, I like that. And then I'd fine tune it, you know? So I guess

00:07:03.680 that is kind of content creation I've used it for. Um, but it's interesting, right? Because like the

00:07:08.880 person that made the comment about the hyphen, you know, this happened to Vanderbilt, uh, Vanderbilt

00:07:13.800 University is actually one of our clients, one of my clients actually a couple of years ago.

00:07:18.160 And there was like a, uh, a shooting on campus or something. And they got a lot of heat because

00:07:24.660 they had a, a public announcement that they released around the shooting. And it's interesting

00:07:31.000 because what they said could be true for them, right? They could say, yes, this represents us

00:07:35.640 correctly, but they utilized AI to generate the response and people's human nature is what?

00:07:44.140 Well, it must not be true if you generated it. And, and so there's an interesting element here,

00:07:50.780 maybe a lesson for us to realize that like, yes, we can automate things. We can create things,

00:07:56.080 but as humans, we still think it means something if it comes from Ryan versus if it's generated with a

00:08:05.660 Ryan agrees with it or not. And it's just a interesting concept for us to consider as we

00:08:10.720 utilize these tools in, in day-to-day interactions. I think it is interesting, but it's not surprising.

00:08:17.420 I mean, we're all, we're all tribal and that's really what it comes down to. So anytime there's

00:08:22.460 something that's off, just a little off, it's like, Oh, threat. That's not part of our tribe.

00:08:28.240 We need to, that's ostracized. We're getting rid of that. So it could be AI. When somebody sees AI,

00:08:33.980 they're like, that's not how Ryan talks threat, not interested. Uh, another arena that you see this

00:08:40.720 in is, and we'll see this more and more. And I think it will get better is probably not the right

00:08:46.260 word, but a little bit more realistic is robotics, humanoid robots. There there's going to be such

00:08:52.260 a level of distrust, especially upfront and disdain because I know that's not a human being.

00:08:59.440 Like even this thing with Jim Carrey, like, have you seen this thing going on with Jim Carrey?

00:09:04.360 Yeah. Wow. Like I think it's Jim Carrey. I think he just had a lot of surgery at once and it either

00:09:10.920 hasn't healed right, or it wasn't done very well, but the amount of people that are like, Oh,

00:09:17.820 that's a clone. And they actually believe that like, or that's a mask. It's threatening

00:09:23.020 subconsciously. It's threatening. That person is not like us. Therefore threat, therefore not part

00:09:29.740 of our tribe. Well, and this is why this is the power I think of authenticity because you can trust

00:09:38.060 it. You say, Oh, that's authentic. Whether it's inferior or not, you know what you're getting

00:09:43.700 because you believe that that's aligned with that individual. When there's a lack of authenticity,

00:09:48.860 whether it's visual like that or in content creation, you start questioning who you're

00:09:56.180 getting and is it really them or not? It's not really about the quality of it as much as the trust

00:10:02.340 of it and trust through authenticity is important. Well, and I think this is, and look, I don't want to

00:10:08.200 get into the weeds on this about like, whether you like them or don't like in politics or not,

00:10:11.500 but this is part of the charm. And again, just hear what I'm saying. Like, let's not make this

00:10:16.680 a political debate, but this is part of the charm of Trump. Now, a lot of people like he's a liar.

00:10:22.440 He's a piece of shit, all that. And all that could be true. I don't know. But what I do know

00:10:26.080 is that he speaks his mind and the thought to word filter is broken, which is part of the charm.

00:10:36.560 You know what you're going to get. And so when he opens his mouth and he makes fun of whoever he

00:10:41.680 decides to make fun of for the day, you're like, yeah, that's Trump. At least I can appreciate

00:10:47.220 that he's speaking what's on his mind, even if I don't agree with what he's saying.

00:10:52.240 Totally. Well, and this is like presidential, well-polished, don't know if that's really what

00:10:58.960 they feel and how they communicate or authentic egotistical guy. People trust the one, right?

00:11:08.720 Because they trust that it's him, right? And it's consistent and it's not polished, right? And

00:11:13.280 that's the power of authenticity. I mean, this is crazy. For me, it's an opinion, right? It's not

00:11:18.140 subjective. Everybody has different versions of what they think is authentic. But this is part of the

00:11:23.280 reason I kind of scoff when people say that Obama was such a great orator. I don't think he's a great

00:11:28.020 orator at all. Great writers. I think, I think, I don't even think that. I don't think he really

00:11:33.700 ever said anything that was like very compelling or inspiring. And it all sound the same. It all

00:11:39.140 sound flat. Like there was no dilemma, no conflict in what he said. Like he was not a great speaker

00:11:48.120 that way. And it made it seem just stuffy. Now there's millions of people who would disagree with

00:11:54.640 me and that's fine. And it might be my own political bias that changes my interpretation

00:11:59.980 of him. But I just thought he was very disingenuous. And, you know, years ago, this was a long time

00:12:07.140 ago. I was, I was probably, I don't know, 20 or 21 years old. And I was working in the mall

00:12:13.640 at Journey shoe store. And I don't know why I remember this, but it was just interesting.

00:12:18.680 There was this, uh, young woman who worked across the mall at Claire's, the jewelry store,

00:12:24.540 Claire's. And we, like, we would talk on our breaks and like, I don't know, flirt or whatever,

00:12:30.340 you know, across the stores or like whatever. Right. And she said to me one time, she's like,

00:12:35.720 I don't trust you. And she's kind of joking, but also kind of not. And I'm like, what,

00:12:39.560 what do you mean? She's like, you're always happy. And I was like, okay, so you don't trust

00:12:45.980 me because of that. She's like, yeah, because I don't know if you're faking it.

00:12:51.460 And I remember having this conversation. I was like, well, what, what would make you believe

00:12:56.720 that I was being real? And she's like, if you had a bad day and you actually were angry or upset or

00:13:03.000 bothered, and I could see that you were having a bad day. I'm like, that's interesting. I mean,

00:13:07.500 that was 25 years ago. And I still remember that conversation and she wasn't being mean spirited.

00:13:12.620 She was just making an observation. And I thought it was really, really interesting.

00:13:18.060 Yeah. This is part of the reason I think when it comes to this is we, we do need to be authentic

00:13:22.700 and it is okay for men to have bad days. And it is okay for you to express your emotions in a

00:13:29.940 constructive and positive way. There's a lot of people that get this concept of stoicism wrong,

00:13:36.260 that it, it's the suppression of emotion. That's not how I interpret stoicism.

00:13:42.200 To me, it's understanding your emotions and then formulating a response or a behavior

00:13:48.740 that will move your life in the right direction. But I can use emotion very powerfully. You know,

00:13:56.360 you think of some of the greatest orators that we've known, whether it's, uh, Abraham Lincoln

00:14:01.220 with the Gettysburg address or Martin Luther King, I have a dream, even to Tony Robbins,

00:14:06.420 when he does his seminars, you don't, don't for a second think that they don't know how to use

00:14:11.080 emotional hooks to get you vested in their vision. Of course, that's what they're doing.

00:14:16.820 So when you're having a bad day, I actually think it's worthwhile to, you get home and you're like,

00:14:23.520 Hey kids, just want to let you know, I'm having a bad day today. Didn't go well because of this

00:14:28.660 and that and this, and I might seem a little off tonight. And I just want to let you know,

00:14:32.860 I've got to do some processing and tomorrow we're getting back to work and we're getting things

00:14:37.100 figured out, but just want to keep in the loop. I actually think that's a healthy expression of

00:14:41.360 emotion because now your kids are going to see, Oh, dad has bad days. And most importantly,

00:14:47.300 he knows how to regulate them. And your kids and your wife and the people in your life need to see

00:14:54.320 that you can be emotional, but you can also regulate the emotional, the emotion properly.

00:14:59.580 Yeah, totally. Or, or they end up growing up and going, man, I'm, I'm mad all the time.

00:15:03.740 Something's wrong with me. What's wrong with me? Because what's wrong with me? Cause dad never

00:15:07.540 dealt with this. And it's like, Oh, sorry, son. I never actually involved you. And the whole time

00:15:12.520 I was pissed off and I just managed it really well. So it's their way of modeling it. Right.

00:15:18.060 Is there any other, any other tools for Danny that you utilize on the AI front? I mean, the podcast,

00:15:24.720 I'm assuming editor utilizes AI to, for clips and video and graphics as well, or no.

00:15:30.460 Uh, yeah. Graphics. Um, I even pull some graphics for Instagram on, I use mid journey, uh, for that.

00:15:38.040 Yeah. Um, Josh uses graphics or I don't know what program AI he uses, but yeah, he pulls, uh, different

00:15:45.820 clips and features. And I don't really, I don't know. I don't know that side of things. Those guys

00:15:50.900 are doing it. I'm sure. But AI now, I mean, I could take a podcast like this. I could drop it even

00:15:56.740 into Riverside, which is what we're using and Riverside will generate 45 second to 60 second

00:16:02.600 clips automatically. It's a little wonky. They take out the ums and the oz and the silent, they like

00:16:09.580 silence out some of the background noise, which makes the volume up and it's, it still has room

00:16:14.560 for improvement on Riverside, but it's pretty impressive what it can do. Yeah, totally.

00:16:19.100 I've started utilizing Claude. Have you heard of Claude yet? I've heard of it. Yeah. But I had

00:16:24.340 never used it. Pretty, pretty amazing. Like what is, what is, what does it do? Think,

00:16:32.300 think of it as the gap between, um, what a developer used to do from a process automation perspective

00:16:39.460 and Claude, you could utilize Claude to automate systems and connections and hooks into different

00:16:46.380 things and process data. It's actually super intelligent. It's, it's impressive. And it will

00:16:52.560 actually give you the breakdown of what it's processing. So like, when you ask something,

00:16:57.780 you're like, all right, I need to do this. Then it like, you'll see the text is like, oh, well this

00:17:01.920 and this, and like, I literally had it. I had, I utilized it yesterday or not yesterday or the day

00:17:08.020 before to create a leadership gap assessment for me based upon research data.

00:17:13.900 And it literally created the assessment, created all the HTML necessary for the form to work

00:17:21.480 correctly, generated the hooks for it to integrate within my existing systems. And I just plopped it

00:17:28.540 into the website. Yeah, that's crazy. It was, it was wild. And at one point the code broke the,

00:17:35.800 the submit button broke. And I was like, and I just said, Hey, the, the submit buttons no longer

00:17:40.740 working. And then it's like, and then it's like, let us, let me evaluate the code and they're like,

00:17:45.320 patch or whatever. Yeah. There's a, there's a bug in the code. Let me fix this code. This bracket

00:17:50.440 was missing. I've updated it now. Test it. And I test it. I'm like, it's working. I was like,

00:17:55.120 dude, that's crazy. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. Wild time. There's a guy, Dan Martel that I follow.

00:18:01.260 I'm trying to actually get him on the podcast, but he's got, uh, he talks a lot about AI and how to use

00:18:07.040 it properly for business. So if you're looking for another cool podcast, uh, Dan Martel, he's a,

00:18:12.380 he's a coach. He's very successful, but he, he talks a lot about how to use it properly. And that's

00:18:16.240 where I learned about a lot of this stuff. Yeah. All right, David doll. So this is kind of a funny

00:18:22.460 question because I'm like, I'm wondering if our response for David back in what July of last year,

00:18:29.520 or actually a couple of years ended up being bad advice or not. I don't remember how our advice was.

00:18:34.580 He says, but Ryan and Kip, good morning, gentlemen. I privately asked a question regarding staying

00:18:39.460 together for the kids, which you guys tackled on the podcast back in 2023. You both gave similar

00:18:45.860 answers, which I took into consideration and implemented in my relationship. Fast forward

00:18:50.920 just last month, I ended the relationship with my ex. So I'm like, nah, shit. Did we,

00:18:56.160 was that good advice or not? Right? He says, I ended the relationship with my ex. Our kids are 14 and

00:19:01.660 five years old. Now I've had custody of them during this time. And as I have a family attorney

00:19:06.760 with the ball rolling for court ordered custody with them. Now, my question is this, Ryan, how did

00:19:13.100 you stay afloat physically, mentally, and emotionally while going through your divorce? I'm learning

00:19:18.680 firsthand the intricacies of similar situation involving children. Do you have any advice?

00:19:24.980 Yeah. I've got lots of advice. I, you know, um, for better or worse, I guess, based on the question

00:19:31.020 you may have asked, I don't think we've, I don't, I can't remember what he asked, but I assume based

00:19:35.000 on the way he's framing the question that, well, I can't remember what we, what we gave as far as

00:19:40.120 feedback, but based on the way he framed the question, I would say that, Hey, you need to try

00:19:44.000 to make it work. Yeah. If not for the kids, for your own wellbeing, because you need to be able to look

00:19:48.960 the man in the mirror and say, I did everything I could. And I'm still in integrity. If I had to

00:19:54.140 guess what I said, that's probably what I said, because that's what I believe even now.

00:19:58.580 Yeah. And that may result in a divorce or not. You can't control the other party, but you control

00:20:05.280 you. So it matters how you show up. And that's what, I think that's really important to know is

00:20:11.060 that I could give you the best advice that was ever given in the history of mankind and it could still

00:20:16.580 not work out. Yeah. And, and, and we have to be aware of that because we, as men want our agency,

00:20:24.040 we want our autonomy. We want our sovereignty. Are we willing to acknowledge that others want that as

00:20:30.660 well? That could mean your wife or your kids or clients and business partners and every other person

00:20:37.160 in your life. If you want that, then you have to respect the fact that they probably do too.

00:20:42.820 And they can make decisions that are not always in alignment with what you would like to see. And it

00:20:47.920 sucks, but it is what it is. Our goal as men, when it comes to these types of things is to stack the

00:20:55.440 deck in our favor. That's it. You know, our kid, for example, there's going to be a percentage of men

00:21:02.900 listening to this podcast who over the next 10 to 20 years or longer are going to be diagnosed with

00:21:09.600 cancer. Flat out. And some of it might be self-imposed. You know, if you chew tobacco or smoke, okay, well,

00:21:18.740 you're increasing your risks of, of cancer and others. I mean, I had a friend, I don't want to get too

00:21:25.680 specific, but I had a friend in the military who, you know, he never, never drank, never smoked, never

00:21:30.900 chewed tobacco. And when we were in Iraq, he actually ended up having cancer in his, in the back of his mouth.

00:21:37.860 And I think it went down to his throat. And if I remember correctly, they had to, uh, take out part

00:21:43.700 of his, his tongue. He had to learn how to re-talk. Uh, he, um, part of his, I don't know, like he had

00:21:50.080 skin grafts and it was crazy. And this was a guy that was healthy. He was in shape. He took care of

00:21:56.580 his body. He didn't put objects into his body that should, and just happened. Yeah. So we need to come

00:22:03.060 to terms with the fact that we don't have as much control over our lives as we think, but you can

00:22:08.080 stack the deck. And that means to eat healthy and to get exercise and not to drink and smoke and chew

00:22:14.980 and do all these other things that will certainly stack the deck against you. So David could have done

00:22:23.820 everything right and still didn't work out, but okay. So there's my little rant on that. Um,

00:22:29.580 I mean, how do you stay afloat? Really? There's a couple of things that I think are at the core of,

00:22:36.360 of how you stay afloat. So number one, these are not in any order, but number one is to get really

00:22:43.700 reflective about your part to play in the relationship. And I know that's going to be

00:22:51.040 really painful because there's going to be things that you're going to have to sit with

00:22:54.520 in guilt and shame, but you can't move forward properly until you address that.

00:23:02.940 And I see, and I, I was guilty of this a little bit. And I see a lot of men fall into this where

00:23:07.240 they don't actually address the problems and then they get into a relationship and the same problem

00:23:12.780 comes up and then a new relationship and the same problem comes up. But at some point you got to

00:23:18.020 imagine that you are the common denominator in this equation. Why does this keep coming up for you?

00:23:23.520 What are you doing or not doing? That's creating the problem. So yeah, you got to sit in some shit

00:23:30.140 and, and ask yourself, what did I do? What could I have done better? How could I have showed up? How

00:23:35.520 will I show up in the future? And that process is journaling therapy might help to some degree,

00:23:41.680 you know, not as hopped up on therapy as everybody else, but therapy to some degree,

00:23:45.720 self-reflection, having other men in your corner that can bounce ideas off of. I've had conversations

00:23:51.540 with you, personal conversations about relationships. And when you speak to me,

00:23:56.600 it just sounds so, so simple. Like, duh, why did I think of that? Well, the reason is,

00:24:02.840 is because I'm emotionally attached to the outcome of the scenario and you are not,

00:24:09.380 which means that you can see it in a, in a way, a perspective that I just can't see myself.

00:24:15.140 And this is the power of having other men in your corner who you allow to speak into you and you

00:24:22.300 accept, not blindly, but accept what they have to share. Another, another thing is I always say,

00:24:30.800 make yourself the project. Men love projects. We absolutely love projects. We like to build,

00:24:36.880 we like to work with our hands. We like to find problems. We like to work in the yard. We like to

00:24:40.620 clean thing. Like we just, we like to fix the truck. We like to build, we just love projects.

00:24:46.560 That's in our nature. So make yourself the project. If you're 240 pounds right now,

00:24:53.340 and you should be sitting right around 200. Okay. Project number one, I've got to lose 40 pounds.

00:24:58.900 How do I do that? Reverse engineer. Okay. I've got to eat healthy. How do I do that? Oh, okay.

00:25:05.480 I've got to, um, do some meal prep on Sundays. Cool. That becomes part of your routine. Every

00:25:12.120 Sunday you're doing meal prep and then you're going to eat healthier, or I've got to come up

00:25:16.120 with a workout program. And so you spend some time in chat GPT, or you hire a trainer and put

00:25:20.480 together a workout program, whatever you do, you just make yourself the project and you dive fully

00:25:25.760 into what you're doing. Too many people don't go all the way. I was thinking about this concept.

00:25:31.560 I'm really rambling here, but I hope this helps. Um, I was thinking about this concept when I was in

00:25:38.740 the military, I was in, in artillery, artillery, artillery, excuse me. And there was a term that

00:25:47.000 we would use when we wanted to destroy an enemy position or a movement or something. And it was

00:25:53.500 called fire for effect and fire for effect is a, uh, a command that we would give to our guns.

00:26:01.020 And those guns would then fire maximum effective dose to suppress the enemy. And I got thinking

00:26:09.840 about this yesterday. We don't do this in our own lives. What most of us do is fire for in effect,

00:26:16.020 like just enough where it seems like we might be doing something or we might be perceived as if

00:26:24.700 we're moving the needle and people congratulate us for nothing really. It's, it's, it's like

00:26:32.460 masturbation. It feels really good, but ultimately doesn't get the job done. And what I want guys to

00:26:37.940 do is I want them to fire for effect, man, go all in on something, pick something and be the best at it.

00:26:46.020 Jiu-jitsu, training, painting, photography, carpentry, uh, dancing. I don't, I don't care

00:26:54.080 what it is. Pick something and just pour yourself into it. And you'll learn a lot from that. So,

00:27:00.880 you know, there's a few things, um, make yourself the project, do some self-reflection,

00:27:07.220 force yourself to be around other good people and stay in the fight, stay in the fight.

00:27:13.680 Yeah. What thoughts do you have riding around letting go of the expectations? I think sometimes

00:27:21.580 that stops guys from dealing in reality, right? It's like, well, I shouldn't have to, and it

00:27:26.060 shouldn't be this way. And so what advice would you have around just letting go of, of those judgments

00:27:32.740 and preconceived notions of the way it should have happened, the way it should have ended up.

00:27:38.280 Right. Yeah. I think that just takes time. Part of it, part of it comes when you heal and then you

00:27:47.680 start to realize, Oh, I'm in a much better position than I was before. And if you're in a worse position

00:27:55.080 than you were before, it's going to be really difficult for you to let go of the way it should

00:27:59.560 have been. You're going to feel slighted. Uh, you're going to feel regret and sorrow and shame

00:28:05.140 and guilt. Uh, you're going to feel animosity because some, somebody took something away from

00:28:12.680 you. Yeah. Yeah. So if you, if you really learn to heal, then you can go back and say, okay, that

00:28:19.980 wasn't ideal. And if I could do it over again, I would, I can't, but my condolence is, or my,

00:28:28.060 my consolation is that I'm a better man today than I was. I'm, I'm making more money. I'm in a new

00:28:36.360 relationship. I'm connected deeply with my children. I'm happier. I'm sober. Like whatever

00:28:41.960 the thing is, it's, it's pretty hard to look at the past and be frustrated when you're in a better

00:28:47.780 spot than you were before. And I think, you know, I might be able to share a lot of tactics and

00:28:51.820 everything with you, but at the end of the day, your life has to be better than what it was for you to

00:28:55.880 get over what you were dealing with. Yeah. Grow and learn from it. I love it. Um, one of the,

00:29:02.040 one of the courses that you have in the iron council right now is divorce, not death. Um,

00:29:07.980 maybe what does that look like for guys that aren't part of the iron council? Obviously,

00:29:11.580 you know, you know, David, if you don't know now, you know, divorce, not death is a course in the IIC.

00:29:18.940 So you should be actually attending that. That's obviously a great resource, but what does that

00:29:23.400 resource look like for guys outside of the iron council, Ryan? Yeah. So essentially what,

00:29:29.160 what divorce, not death is it's an eight week course that you can go through. Um, it's, it's not,

00:29:34.480 it will be self-guided at some point, but right now it's actually, it's better because it's not

00:29:38.300 self-guided. It's done with me and the rest of the guys that are going through, going through the

00:29:42.600 process of divorce. You know, maybe they were just told maybe like, uh, David, they are the ones who

00:29:47.540 made the decision. Maybe they're 12 months post-divorce and that's really who it's for. And we go

00:29:52.100 through eight modules, one every week on things from new roles, new rules to hiring your legal team

00:29:58.820 and protecting your rights as a father. David's dealing with that with custody right now, um,

00:30:03.520 to how to manage the financial aspect of things to how to communicate effectively as a co-parent.

00:30:09.380 Uh, one of the last modules we get into is getting back into the dating space and what that looks like.

00:30:15.100 And so, uh, healing, that's another one. Like how do you heal yourself? What are the thought

00:30:19.560 process to get better? Uh, so we have experts come in and teach some of this stuff. It's actually

00:30:24.060 really powerful. So it's open. In fact, well, as of this recording Friday, we're doing a class today

00:30:30.660 is our first class. So divorce, not death.com. You can get signed up for that. Or if you join the

00:30:35.260 iron council, it's included in your iron council membership. Awesome. Thank you. All right. Will

00:30:41.480 Pennell, um, surface level question, right? We don't get these service level ones too often,

00:30:46.440 but, uh, he's just kind of curious, especially not from Will. Yeah. About the, uh, about the store

00:30:51.260 t-shirts designs. Are there new designs in the works? Uh, I think we'll just look for some swag.

00:30:57.800 So good. Yeah. Let's anything you want to indulge. So I just talked with, uh, Josh, he's, he's our

00:31:04.500 designer. And so he's putting together an endurance shirt based on, um, Ernest Shackleton's ill-fated

00:31:10.380 trip across the Antarctic. Uh, so that one's called endurance. Uh, that should be out in about two or

00:31:15.880 three weeks. And then we've got another one. He just showed me yesterday called the blueprint

00:31:19.200 and it's basically our logo and it's deconstructed. And it's a representation of what I just said,

00:31:25.780 making yourself the project. We have to build ourselves as men from the ground up. When we

00:31:30.360 come into this earth, we are a collection of raw ingredients and then resources, ingredients,

00:31:39.240 potential. It's up to us initially, our parents and whether or not they do a good job is to be

00:31:45.040 determined. But then at some point it becomes our job to build ourselves into, into a structure,

00:31:51.380 into something useful, into something powerful, into something that can stand the test of time

00:31:55.820 that has legacy around it. And so that's the blueprint shirt. And then I've got another one.

00:32:02.500 This one will be probably a month or two out called blood, sweat, and tears. Uh, because that's

00:32:07.580 what re that's what's required for you to be successful. I mean, you can, you cannot be successful

00:32:12.260 in life without literally bleeding, sweating, and tears. Like it just doesn't happen. So we've got

00:32:18.700 the blood, sweat, and tear shirt coming out too. Okay. Just buying that swag store.orderofman.com.

00:32:24.420 Um, and keep, stay updated on, uh, what swag ends up showing up. All right. Douglas Ed,

00:32:30.520 what ideas are you willing to kill for? Interesting question. Hmm. That is interesting. What ideas?

00:32:38.040 Ideals. Ideals. I'm sorry. Hopefully you're not killing for ideas. Ideals. Yeah. Ideals. Ideal. I

00:32:46.560 mean, my, my family and my faith, right? Yeah. Faith, family, country, I would say. Yeah. I mean,

00:32:53.540 it's as simple as that. I, you know, if somebody, and, and, and my, my own freedom and liberty,

00:32:58.660 I would say that too. Like if your own life is at risk. Yeah. Yeah. I would, I would kill to,

00:33:04.020 you know, protect my own liberty. Absolutely. Um, yeah. I'd kill if somebody was threatening that

00:33:09.460 against my kids or somebody that I love. I've, I've also thought about like property. Would I kill

00:33:14.620 for property? I don't know. I don't know. I think, I guess it depends on, on what, like if somebody was

00:33:22.900 stealing from my garage and you know, they just, like I caught them and they ran like, would I shoot

00:33:28.240 them or like, no, probably not. You know, but like, that's what they're grabbing. But if, yeah, I mean,

00:33:33.060 if, if they're grabbing some tools, maybe if they're grabbing, I don't know, like, uh, the meat

00:33:38.880 out of my freezer, I might, but yeah, yeah. You're like the, all the other stuff. You're like, good

00:33:43.320 riddance. Thank you. You know, I was trying to get rid of that crap for years. No, but I think that's,

00:33:51.580 that's it. You know, faith, country, family, and my own personal liberty. I can't really think about

00:33:57.900 anything that would, even faith is an interesting one. What I'd kill for my faith.

00:34:05.180 It depends on the context, right? Like, yeah, it's hard for me to figure out a way,

00:34:10.460 a reason why I would need to do that, but to defend my faith, again, that comes back to my liberty.

00:34:15.660 Yeah, absolutely. If somebody is going to threaten me or my family,

00:34:20.120 yeah, I w I would kill for that. Absolutely. Yeah. Hmm. All right. Nick, Nick L. Would you,

00:34:27.600 would you add anything to the list Kip on that? No. And, and not only would I not add to the list,

00:34:33.880 I think that list is solid, but there's so much gray in it. Right. You know what I mean? Like how

00:34:39.340 often it's like, well, what was I really at risk? And you know what I mean? Like, and, and there's,

00:34:44.700 to be honest with you, like Liberty is in that gray space too, right? Like our Liberty, liberties are

00:34:51.100 being threatened all the time internally. And you know what I mean? Where do you draw the line? And

00:34:57.360 it's messy, you know, it's, I think it's all tricky, right? I mean, yeah, here's a, just to get a little

00:35:05.560 tactical or a little visceral on that. If I'm speeding down the road at 75 miles an hour in a 45,

00:35:13.740 and I get pulled over, you could argue that a police enforcing that law is infringing on my

00:35:21.320 liberty. You could absolutely make that argument. So would I kill him for it? No. Unfortunately,

00:35:27.240 some people would, I wouldn't. So would I kill for all of my liberties? No, but certain. Yeah,

00:35:34.940 absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good analogy. All right. Nick McElroy in a world where violence has

00:35:41.360 never changed just the method in which it is perceived. How do you teach someone this concept?

00:35:51.380 I don't really understand the point of the question. Okay. So in a world that violence

00:35:57.620 has never changed, only the method, how do you teach somebody that concept? Yeah.

00:36:02.660 I'm trying to think. I mean, what was interesting that stood out is the method in which it's perceived.

00:36:12.280 I don't really know what he's saying there because it's not the way it's perceived. It actually is. I

00:36:18.620 mean, thousands of years ago, we were using rocks and sticks to throw and fling at people when we wanted

00:36:24.600 to hurt them or protect our tribe. And now we use high powered ballistics with gunpowder to do it.

00:36:32.460 So that's not a perceived change. That's an actual change. Well, and maybe, I mean, we could riff on

00:36:38.060 this, but like, you know, I don't agree with it, but society thinks other things are violent that

00:36:44.660 aren't violent. Right. That, okay. That's a good point. Like silence and violence. Words are violent.

00:36:50.480 Yeah. They're perceiving things as violence, that it really isn't violence.

00:36:56.200 That's actually probably what he, I didn't consider that. That's probably what he's talking

00:37:00.140 about. Yeah. Those are the things you hear. Silence is violence. Words are violent. This

00:37:05.780 is why it's important. We don't like, I'll never say he was attacking me when somebody gets upset

00:37:10.600 with me online because I might say verbal insulting or verbal assault. I would never say verbal attack

00:37:17.800 because that's not, that's not an attack. Like let's not conflate language and confuse people.

00:37:24.600 That's not an attack. Words are not violent unless, unless I'm actively calling for violence. If I tell

00:37:30.460 my listeners, Hey, here's Kip's address and I want you to go and I want you to pull them out of his house

00:37:35.540 and I want you to, uh, you know, kill them. Okay. That would be violent rhetoric. But if I say, Hey,

00:37:44.300 this guy Kip, we got into an argument. I don't like him. And here's why I don't like him. And here's

00:37:48.640 why I think he's wrong. And here's why he thinks I'm wrong. And here's why I think it's, uh, it's a

00:37:53.420 dangerous ideology. I'm not calling for violence on anybody. Yeah. Totally. So I think the words that we

00:37:59.700 use are important. Go ahead. Yeah. Well, I was going to ask you what's break down why this is so

00:38:04.800 important. Cause there's a couple elements of why we don't want to do this.

00:38:10.680 Well, it becomes dangerous very, very quickly. Right? So if I, okay. So if I believe that your

00:38:20.220 point of view threatens me, does that give me less or more of a justification to eliminate you

00:38:29.780 speaking that way about me violently more, it allows me to justify physical violence with you.

00:38:36.600 If I take your words as violent. And this has happened throughout all of human history. Every

00:38:43.500 genocide can probably be traced back to this in some way is that a group of people were turned into the

00:38:49.500 villains. And once a group of people is unjustly turned into the villain, then we, we have a reason

00:38:58.020 that's, this is why people say Trump is Hitler. If he's true. Okay. Let's go back in time. Let's say

00:39:05.520 to go back to that killing thing that you had an opportunity to kill Hitler. Would you, would you do

00:39:12.800 it? And I think most people would say, yeah, absolutely. I would do it. Okay. I think you can

00:39:18.460 justify why you do that. Now fast forward today, if Trump is Hitler, does that give you more of a reason

00:39:25.780 or justification to take him out? Yes. Which is why we see political violence on the left and right.

00:39:33.180 Mostly the left. I think, you know, you can look at the statistics and data. I think it's mostly the

00:39:36.980 left, but yeah, it's, it's, it is dangerous ideology. It's not always violent, but, and you're not always

00:39:45.440 culpable in what you say, but what you say certainly elevates the, the, the, the, the violence, the

00:39:54.800 danger. And so I think as Americans, we ought to explore concepts and ideas respectfully, thoughtfully,

00:40:05.820 intelligently, in good faith. That's something that a lot of people don't do in good faith.

00:40:11.900 You know, when people ask questions, I can immediately tell whether they're being genuine

00:40:16.120 or disingenuous. And if they're asking me a question and I say, that's a disingenuine

00:40:20.560 question, I don't get into that. They're like, well, no, no, I really mean it. I'm like, I've

00:40:23.440 been doing this long enough. And I know that you don't mean it. Cause every time I answer what I

00:40:27.520 think is a disingenuous question, then they're like, see, this is what I'm like, okay, you didn't

00:40:31.780 want to actually have the discussion. So yeah, it's, it is dangerous to increase the temperature of our

00:40:38.720 rhetoric, you know, but the other side of it is, is people that they probably do perceive Trump,

00:40:45.620 for example, as being dangerous. And so I don't think that's the case, but yeah, it's, it's hard.

00:40:52.220 This is why, this is why it would try like Charlie Kirk, you know, I think about him and why his

00:40:57.840 mission to talk about things and communicate and be intelligent and debate was the basis for growth.

00:41:08.880 And I think it diffuses the temperature when we engage in that in good faith.

00:41:14.580 Yeah. I mean, he's the prime example of this, right? Like what, once you make them violent,

00:41:19.700 their words is violent, then it makes it difficult for us to have discourse

00:41:25.080 and arguments and, and to work out issues. So now it's just be quiet. Don't express,

00:41:32.060 don't challenge. Right. And that's not going to, not going to help society as a, as a whole either.

00:41:38.020 Well, ironically, when you don't talk, then people will say, well, silence is violence.

00:41:42.340 It's like, okay. I don't, I don't know what you, if I express an opinion, I'm being dangerous.

00:41:47.680 If I don't express it, then I'm being silent and also participating in violence. And,

00:41:53.160 you know, for example, I hear this all the time. People are like, oh, well, you were quiet about

00:41:57.160 this one. I bring up a subject that I, that I'm interested in and are frustrated about. And people

00:42:01.800 have, well, you didn't talk about this thing a year ago. Oh, I'm sorry. Was I obligated to talk

00:42:07.300 about all the problems that ever existed every time I opened my mouth? Or was I obligated to address a

00:42:13.020 problem that I don't perceive as a problem, but you do, you should talk about that. Like, I don't have

00:42:18.920 to have contrary to popular belief and what people might think about me, an opinion about everything

00:42:24.380 all the time, any given day of the week. Some things I just don't feel are relevant. Some things

00:42:31.400 aren't a problem for me. And if they're a problem for you, great. You talk about it, but I don't need

00:42:36.160 to talk about it. Yeah, totally. Totally. All right. Jake Thompson, Ryan, I hear you talk a lot about

00:42:42.220 brotherhood and having men in your corner, but I've spent most of my life doing things alone. And

00:42:47.320 honestly, I'm used to it. How does a guy start building a brotherhood when he doesn't really

00:42:52.420 have one to begin with? Yeah. I mean, being used to it is complacency, right? Like, okay. So

00:43:03.840 imagine being at work and I hate this phrase, Kip. I'm sure you do too. And I'm sure everybody who's

00:43:09.480 ever heard it hates it. You come to the boss with a good idea or the supervisor, whoever. And they're

00:43:15.920 like, well, you know, this is just the way we've always done it. It's such a dumb thing to say.

00:43:23.320 It's so late. It's lazy. That's what it is. It's intellectually lazy. It's like such a dumb thing

00:43:27.420 to say. Don't say that. If you have a real reason for it, then explain the real reason. But this is

00:43:33.180 the way we've always done. It is not a reason for doing a thing. And that's a little bit what Jake

00:43:38.740 might be falling into is, okay, just because you're comfortable with it doesn't make it a good reason

00:43:44.320 to engage in it. I could be comfortable with a lot of things that are antithetical to my growth

00:43:48.900 and development. So should I continue to engage in it? No. You know, pornography is a good one. A lot

00:43:55.060 of guys are comfortable with watching pornography all the time. Does that mean that's a good thing

00:43:58.760 for them? No. Quite the opposite, actually. So you have to ask yourself, is comfort and I'd say

00:44:07.860 complacency more important to me or is growth and progress more important to me? And if it's growth

00:44:14.400 and don't just pay lip service, because I know you're going to say growth and progress. Everybody

00:44:17.980 would when asked that question. But what would really prove to me that that actually had some

00:44:24.240 weight is if you pushed yourself outside of your comfort zone. And just by the nature of you asking

00:44:29.560 the question lets me know that you know being in a brotherhood is more important than being

00:44:34.020 isolated. A Friday Field Notes came out today called Why the Lone Wolf Dies. So if you haven't

00:44:40.760 listened to it, go back to last week's Friday Field Notes and check it out. And I talk about

00:44:45.660 the reasons it's so important. And I also talk about why modern culture and society incentivize

00:44:51.120 men to be lonely. We're easier to control when we're isolated. We consume more as a way of

00:44:58.800 distraction, pornography, substance abuse, video games, binge watching TV. We're definitely

00:45:05.500 more likely to engage in consumerism as opposed to producing more. So there's some real reasons

00:45:12.840 why the government and institutions would love for us to be isolated and alone. Together, we're

00:45:18.680 significantly more powerful. So how do you do it? Go back and listen to that podcast. I talk about

00:45:22.240 three main ways. And there's only three. There's the gym. Actually, I'll say there's four. But

00:45:28.320 there's the gym, there's business functions, and there's church functions. And then the other that I

00:45:33.400 identified is hobbies. Communities around hobbies. That's it. I can't think of something that falls

00:45:41.440 outside of that. And when I say the gym, it might be jujitsu. It might be a running club. It might be a

00:45:45.380 hiking club. Physical fitness is what I'm saying. That's the gym. Hobbies, maybe you really love to

00:45:51.600 shoot pistols or archery or hunting. Or maybe you do like to paint or photography. I've got friends who

00:45:57.880 are photographers and they'll do photography classes for other photographers in Zion National Park. I live

00:46:03.920 at the base of Zion. So that's a community that they've built. Church functions, business outings,

00:46:09.980 rotary, chamber of commerce. How do you do it? You go where the people are. And then you start having

00:46:15.840 conversations, asking questions. It's not a difficult thing. And it's not even a complicated

00:46:21.580 thing. You know, everybody says, oh, it's simple, but not easy. No, it's actually both. It's simple

00:46:27.500 and it's easy. You find what you're interested in. You get on your phone. You're like, I'm interested

00:46:32.900 in jujitsu. And you pull jujitsu up in Southern Utah. And then the three academies come up and you say,

00:46:38.440 okay, well, that one meets Tuesday at seven. Perfect. Let me call them. It's not hard. If you

00:46:46.380 make it hard, it's only because you're trying to be complacent. People do that all the time. We make

00:46:55.440 simple things complex so we can excuse ourselves of doing what we know we ought to be doing.

00:47:01.480 Yeah. We dramatize the outcome, right? To justify the inaction.

00:47:09.620 Not even the outcome, just the amount of work it will take. And it doesn't sometimes.

00:47:13.580 But you know what I mean? It's like, oh, well, I don't know those guys and people, you know,

00:47:17.680 it'll be hard. And like, we come up with all this stuff, right? And then use that to justify the

00:47:23.620 inaction of the decision. But that's why I'm really cautious when I hear people say, oh, that's hard.

00:47:29.040 I'm like, is it though? Yeah. Like, let's stop and like really ask ourselves, is it hard? Well,

00:47:36.160 yeah, it's hard because of this and that. No, no, no. Hold on. Let's actually ask ourselves,

00:47:41.400 like, are we just saying that or is it actually hard? I think a lot of the things that we say

00:47:50.600 are hard or not hard. We just think they are, we believe they are, or we tell ourselves they are.

00:47:57.180 Yeah. The other glaring option is really just join the Iron Council, like-minded guys that are

00:48:05.580 focused on, that are aligned with your values, right? So that's the other option, Jake, is,

00:48:10.920 you know, if you don't want to take those three, then join the fourth and just join us in the Iron

00:48:14.280 Council and get on a battle team and start getting after it with guys that are on the same path as you

00:48:20.520 wanting to improve and become better versions of themselves, which to be honest with you, I think is

00:48:25.700 superior anyway, because sometimes, you know, uh, I train with some guys, I respect them on the mats,

00:48:32.320 but I'm not getting marriage advice from those guys, right? Because they're probably not in the

00:48:38.300 best, uh, space, uh, to be giving that advice. And, and, and then there's guys at church that are

00:48:44.560 lazy and don't go to, you know, don't take care of their bodies and they're not getting after it on the

00:48:49.500 physical side. And so, you know, it's going to probably take multiple angles, right? For you to,

00:48:53.500 to get around the tribe that is, or the brotherhood that's going to lift you up.

00:48:58.540 Yeah. Um, when you talked about church, this has always been fascinating to me.

00:49:04.300 And in the past, I may not have said this because it seems like it's judgmental and it's too harsh.

00:49:08.760 I'm like, no, we should talk about this. If you are a churchgoer, if you're spiritual and religious,

00:49:13.820 you have no excuse to be fat.

00:49:15.680 You just don't like, if you really believed that God gave you this incredible body and this

00:49:23.380 incredible, I'm not saying you have to be the epitome of health. Yeah. But if you're 50 or a

00:49:27.820 hundred pounds overweight and you're standing in front of a pulpit in front of your congregation,

00:49:31.840 and you're telling them about being appreciative of what God offers and honoring, um, our bodies and

00:49:38.260 being disciplined and being committed to something that, that helps us be better in the community.

00:49:42.920 And you're a hundred pounds overweight. You that's, that's hypocritical.

00:49:50.680 And I'm not, I don't want to beat you up, but I w I do want to say, get it together. Yeah.

00:49:58.620 I mean, I've, I've seen so many bishops and pastors and priests where it's like, I can't trust you, man,

00:50:05.400 but you can't lose weight. And I know people will hear that and be like, well, Ryan, you mess up.

00:50:11.760 Of course I do. And I would want to be held accountable too. That's why I have the brotherhood

00:50:16.820 of the iron council. So guys like you can hold me accountable and say, Hey dude, what's going on?

00:50:21.480 You're messing up. So yeah, if, if you are that way and you're like, you know what, Ryan, that's

00:50:27.800 right. Actually, then, then band with us. I'll walk that journey with you. I'll give you the tools you

00:50:33.200 need to get your fitness in check. And imagine the amount of power. Like if you really believe that

00:50:38.980 your voice is an instrument for God. And I believe it is. If you really believe that,

00:50:44.300 then don't you think that losing weight and getting in shape will not only amplify your voice,

00:50:51.060 but give you more influence in the lives of the people that you want to serve. You have an

00:50:56.060 obligation to do that. Yeah, absolutely. I just needed to say that. And the correlation between

00:51:01.260 that and parenthood is the same, the same, right? Same. Oh, you care about your kids. Well-being

00:51:06.580 awesome. Guess what? The number one thing you should be doing, taking care of your health. If

00:51:12.060 you, if you really care, if you really care, but yet it's like, Oh, I care about their health,

00:51:17.680 but not mine. No, no, no. That's not how it works, right? Your health and how you lived will dictate

00:51:23.780 the nutrition and health of your children more than any other factor. Yeah. You know,

00:51:29.640 you want some weight? There it is. Yeah. All right. One more question. Cause I, I, I got to prep for

00:51:35.800 our, our, our afternoon call and the iron council. Yeah. After this. So what do we got? Marcus

00:51:41.000 Bennett. Um, you, uh, sorry, my scrolling's off here. Uh, you often say men need to take extreme

00:51:48.160 ownership, um, of their lives, but what does that actually look like when you feel stuck in a job you

00:51:54.020 hate and you've got a family depending on your income? This, uh, okay. So I like this question.

00:52:02.860 Taking ownership actually might mean sacrificing. There's a cost. Sometimes you do. Yeah. Yeah.

00:52:10.180 Right. Yeah. You could be in a job you hate and, and, and, but that's ownership. You're like,

00:52:15.180 but I have a mortgage to pay. So this is my, this is my hand right now. So I actually don't think the

00:52:21.140 two are at odds. Like being in a job you hate, but you have to pay for your family's wellbeing and

00:52:25.520 their considerations and food and that's ownership. That's, that's extreme ownership.

00:52:30.140 That's ultimate ownership. Now that said, there's a lot of things that you can do with your current

00:52:35.800 organization and a lot of things that you can do personally that will help line you up for something

00:52:40.320 better. You can take night classes. If a degree is something that you need, maybe it's a credential

00:52:46.320 or a certification. When I was doing financial planning, I was busy all day, right? I was

00:52:50.940 busy meeting with clients and making calls and doing plans for people. And then in my

00:52:55.220 off hours, I was studying for new licenses, new, new credentials, new letters behind my

00:53:03.060 name so that I could be a better financial advisor and be better at the work that I was

00:53:07.260 doing. Another thing that I was doing is I was learning about business structures and

00:53:12.940 taxes and hiring people because I knew eventually I was going to start my own financial planning

00:53:17.880 practice. So while I was there doing that work, which was not ideal at the time, I was

00:53:22.840 doing stuff over here, positioning myself for success. The other one I often talk about

00:53:29.140 is you better be a good networker. I can't tell you how many times we talk with guys who

00:53:34.240 were like, I got laid off and I didn't even see it coming and I don't have anything lined

00:53:37.020 up. That's a you problem, man. Why weren't you networking? Why weren't you meeting industry

00:53:42.580 people? Why weren't you serving other people, making connections, being a mover and a shaker,

00:53:47.620 going to chamber, going to rotary? Why weren't you doing those things? Because I'll tell you

00:53:51.440 what, if this went away, order of man went away today, fine. I'll use all my connections

00:53:59.280 to either build something else or to get hired. I'll go work at McDonald's if I have to, to

00:54:04.140 make ends meet. It's not ultimately what I want to do, but I'll do it because that's what

00:54:08.000 is required. But you better believe I'm always going to be improving my station. Rudy Reyes

00:54:14.180 came on the podcast last week and he's a Marine recon and an incredible, incredible human being.

00:54:22.000 And he talked about one of the principles of battle, infantry, being improve your position

00:54:27.120 always. This is actually probably a jujitsu concept too, right? We hear about position over

00:54:32.780 submission, like improve your position. If you're here, get to here. If you're here, get

00:54:38.680 to here, always do the little things to improve your position. And you'll never find yourself.

00:54:44.300 I shouldn't say never very rarely. Will you find yourself in a position, a compromising position?

00:54:51.800 I'll say. Yeah. I love that. You know, there's an element, there's layers to ownership to Ryan,

00:54:57.200 you know, like you might, you might find yourself saying, you know, part of ownership is my current

00:55:03.240 conditions, not what I want. I'm going to do these extra things, right. And take back, uh, control of

00:55:08.960 my, um, you know, my livelihood and what I'm doing for work. But inside of that, you might be saying,

00:55:16.480 why am I owning my job or am I sitting back in my job and waiting to be told what to do?

00:55:23.480 Right. And I love this analogy is you're the CEO that it's really interesting. We do this in our

00:55:29.200 jobs. We go, you know, we take full ownership to accept the position, right? So if Ryan has an

00:55:34.600 open rack and I apply and we have alignment, this is a partnership. And then the minute I accept the

00:55:40.820 job, I all of a sudden become the passenger and I give over ownership to Ryan to manage me.

00:55:48.400 And it's like, dude, never do that. You're the CEO. And so if for instance, I'm working for you,

00:55:55.520 Ryan, I should be asking myself all the time. Ryan's not my boss. He is my client. What is

00:56:02.200 winning in my role? How do I ensure Ryan and his company generates a profit or efficiency off how I'm

00:56:10.420 showing up? And if I'm not getting what I need from Ryan to do that, guess what I do? I demand it from

00:56:16.920 him. Ryan, you want me to win. You want this from me. This is what I need from you for me to make that

00:56:24.080 possible. I need that clarity. I want those things. And it's interesting because sometimes we'll talk

00:56:30.620 about like, oh, we need great leaders. At least I say it all the time. We need great leaders. But if

00:56:35.660 you don't have a great leader, if you're not getting the clarity, what are you doing about it?

00:56:41.140 And you demand it and you take back ownership of the position that you're working in and you get

00:56:47.340 what you need to be successful. And that translates everything. Oh, I don't like my church group.

00:56:54.380 Awesome. What are you doing about it? Have you brought up what you don't like? Are you showing

00:56:58.860 up in a way? Oh, I don't like the way my marriage is going right now. We seem like roommates. Got it.

00:57:05.280 What are you doing about it? Or are you waiting and hoping for someone else to change? That shows up

00:57:12.280 in all areas of life. And so there's layers of this that we need to consider.

00:57:18.920 When you were talking about that, Kip, I wrote a couple of things down here. I can't tell you how

00:57:23.260 often in previous jobs, employment positions that I've got promotions because of exactly what you're

00:57:31.380 talking about. How often do you hear a guy say, they don't pay me enough to do that. Or here's

00:57:37.040 another one. That's not my job description. You know how many times I've got promoted? You know

00:57:41.640 how many raises I've got? You know how many business opportunities I've created and partnerships I've

00:57:45.880 developed because I did things they didn't pay me to do. Because I did things that weren't exactly in

00:57:52.220 my job description. And then people, not always, not in the acute necessarily, but generally people

00:57:58.500 begin to notice that and you become a valuable player. So when you're asked to do something,

00:58:02.860 if it's an alignment with who you are and what you want to do, then do it. Look for things that

00:58:08.320 you're not getting paid for to do. And the other one that I often hear is like, oh, you know, my

00:58:13.740 company won't pay for my education. Okay. Like they won't pay for that certain credential or degree.

00:58:21.440 Can you do it still? Yeah. I'm like, well, then go do it. Well, they won't pay for it. Then you pay for it.

00:58:26.160 But why wouldn't you, there's a couple of people in my life that come to mind that are in the legal

00:58:32.620 field, paralegals in particular. And yeah, they weren't getting paid to go get their schooling

00:58:37.400 and their paralegal certificate. And they did it anyways on their own dime. That's the behavior

00:58:43.500 that we need to show up as men is like, yeah. Okay. So the person didn't give you the thing you

00:58:48.140 wanted. Just go get it. If it's important, you do it. Yeah. Take ownership. Absolutely. Absolutely.

00:58:54.240 So a couple of call to action, right? I mean, divorce, not death.com, right? If you're in

00:58:58.980 that same place as David, and that's actually part of being a member of the iron council. And so if

00:59:05.220 you're on the fence of joining the iron council and banding with us anyway, just join us in the

00:59:09.600 iron council and then you can get part of that course, but divorce, the divorce, not death.com

00:59:14.480 as well as order a man.com slash iron council to learn more about the brotherhood.

00:59:19.680 There it is guys. You've got your marching orders. Um, we're also doing a preview call on March 18th.

00:59:25.400 You can check out at 8 PM Eastern. If you go to the iron council.com slash preview, you can get

00:59:30.800 registered and get a, uh, Google calendar invite as well. So, uh, that's the iron council.com slash

00:59:36.840 preview. All right, guys, good questions. They appreciate you. Hopefully we gave you some good

00:59:40.480 answers and hopefully we didn't lead. Who was it? David astray six months ago.

00:59:44.560 So, uh, it's actually 2023. So that was like three years ago. Whoa. I thought it was,

00:59:51.980 I thought you said three months ago, but it's three years ago. It's like three years ago. Yeah.

00:59:56.640 Sounds like, uh, based on what I think I would have said, it sounds like you made a valiant effort.

01:00:01.960 And I hope my hope is that you can look yourself in the mirror and say,

01:00:06.760 nope, I tried it for the kids. I tried to do everything I could and I can't. And that's the

01:00:16.340 nature of it sometimes. Anyways, guys, uh, we'll be back next week. Uh, no, we'll be back on Friday

01:00:20.800 for your Friday field notes until then go out there, take action.

01:00:26.020 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:00:30.620 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:00:36.760 You're ready to join the order of man.com.

Order of Man - March 11, 2026

Men's Tribalism, Using AI effectively, and What to Kill For ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Misogynist Sentences

Hate Speech Sentences

Summary

Transcript