Multi-Dimensionality, People-Pleasing, and Stepping Into Masculinity ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING
Episode Stats
Length
1 hour and 6 minutes
Words per Minute
179.14603
Summary
In this episode, Ryan and Kip talk about what it's like to be a martial arts black belt and how to deal with the challenges that life throws your way. They also talk about the value of being willing to put in the work.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
There's this big zip line thing, and there's 15 zip lines that you just work through a course.
00:00:04.700
They have two lines on this one, so two people can go at the same time, one next to the other.
00:00:10.300
And I look up, I kid you not, the clip thing on the cable is smoking and sparking.
00:00:17.480
And I get right in the middle of the thing, and it stops.
00:00:21.400
And I am not going anywhere, and I'm dangling over the lake.
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And I look down, and there's a couple guys fishing, and they're looking up at me like,
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It's Friday as of this recording, and it looks like we're both trying to close up shop for the week.
00:00:46.200
Someone reached out to me on social media while I was at the gym, and they're like,
00:00:55.440
And there's a bunch of things that I've been somewhat of a passenger or passive around.
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And I'm not, I'm in this space of like, no, that's not going to work for me.
00:01:06.960
I need to be a little bit more assertive, aggressive, and go after whatever it is that
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is bothering me and or that I want, and not just sit back and wait.
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Like, I'm kind of like, oh, man, I need to do these things.
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But I was also thinking about this, and I'd love to get your thoughts on this, is it's
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actually in the unknown that anything's possible.
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And so the unknown is what's required for possibility to be created, but it's also very
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When you're not sure what's next, or what are you doing, or it's uneasy, but.
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And I mean, it has to be in the unknown, because if possibility existed in the known, then you'd
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already be achieving new possibilities, and you're not.
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So it's got to be found somewhere other than where you're currently looking, right?
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Uh, and really unsettling at times and uneasy, but I think the key is just to know that you're
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You know that you're knocking on doors that haven't previously been open to you, and it's
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That's the thing that I found so often with so many men is that everybody wants what everyone
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else has, but nobody wants to do what everybody else does.
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So I might say, for example, well, I would love to be a jujitsu black belt.
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Or people will say, oh, Ryan, I'd love to have a podcast with the reach of yours.
00:03:03.660
And we just live in this really easy, modern times where we can actually have a lot of
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I think about food, for example, we're in September.
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A lot of my buddies are hunting elk right now, and they're out in the field and they're putting
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in 20, 30, 40, 50, 100 miles backwoods stuff, packing hundreds of meat off the mountain.
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You could just go to the grocery store and pick up a pack of meat from the grocery store.
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So we've gotten so accustomed to just having what we want.
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If you're a little warm, just go over to the thermostat and turn the AC on a little bit
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So we've become so accustomed to all these creature comforts at the expense of realizing,
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oh, when there is something worthwhile, I don't get to just have it.
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I actually have to put in the work sometimes for years, 10 years for order of man, 17 years
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as a training jujitsu, like it's, it's just what is required.
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And most people find themselves wanting without clarity of the price.
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And so then there, then there's just this upset constantly, right?
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And it's like, well, stop wishing actually just get clear what's required and are you
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And if you're not, then stop, stop wanting it, you know, if you're not willing to put
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There's a lot of things that I don't want and I'm okay with that.
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Know that, but most of us don't get to the clarity side of that.
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So our, our topic this month, um, the question that you pose to the iron council, um, our,
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our brotherhood, uh, to learn more, um, order of man.com slash iron council, as well
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as our Facebook group, facebook.com slash group slash order man was around building
00:05:03.140
relationships with people you love and you, and people that we want to serve and the importance
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And, and I actually, when I thought about this question, um, I don't know, I, this just
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Um, and I kind of want to ask you this question first before we get into these specific questions,
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but there's, there's a balance to things, right?
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I mean, we've, we've talked about this somewhat and, and my fear was that I didn't want to
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get the, I didn't want this not to be addressed, right?
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As part of our, uh, our answers today, but our ability to foster relationships is a hell
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of a lot easier when other elements of our lives are buttoned up, right?
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Oh, it's, it's easier to do great at work when things are good at home.
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It's good to, it's easier to do things well at home when things are good at work.
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And, and even though we're doing specific topics here, part of the battle plan and part
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of what we do in our council is around the importance of covering multiple elements of
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our lives, because we're not naive to assume that like, Oh no, just double down on relationships.
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And so I wanted you to talk through that a little bit briefly around the importance of
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that balance before we kind of dive in specifically around relationships, if that's okay.
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And whenever anybody says balance, look, I don't want to get into semantical games.
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I just want to describe concepts and we use words to describe concepts and certain words
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So I'm not trying to do the gotcha thing or use words that I'm trying to get to the understanding.
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And what I want people to wrap their heads around is get that concept of balance out of
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your head and instead use the word balancing because balancing is a verb balance is a state
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or an objective, so I think that men believe that if they get it just right, whatever that
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formula is between work and play and serving and financial and taking care of themselves and
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If they get those proportions just right, then everything will be perfect.
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And you might get it just right, but our lives are dynamic.
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And so one of the relationships that you have may require more of your attention at certain
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times throughout your life and the other person's life.
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And that may require more of you in that arena than maybe work or your own personal development,
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If you think about any activity where you have to balance, whether it's something like jujitsu
00:07:54.280
or surfing or skateboarding or snowboard, skiing, whatever, it's a series of a thousand little
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movements to keep you upright and going down that hill or riding that wave.
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It's you constantly adjusting left to right, back and forth, moving forward, leaning this way,
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And that might sound exhausting in the realm of your life, but that's what you need to do
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is you need to adjust constantly to the factors and the considerations in your life.
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If one of your children is really struggling with something, then I'm going to pour more
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I was invited to go to Dallas next week to go on a podcast, and I'm very much looking forward
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to going on the podcast and meeting other people there.
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Well, I looked at my son's, my youngest son's lacrosse schedule.
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He's got his last game on Tuesday night, and he's made comments about how important it is
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I was on my phone and I didn't think he was really paying attention.
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But after the game, he said, why were you on your phone the whole time?
00:09:09.760
So he's keenly aware of the fact that I am there and if I'm present or not when I am
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So I called the team up that I was going to go meet with in Dallas.
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They said, great, we'll bump it back two to three weeks and no issue.
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But that's the act of balancing is that I want my son to know that his lacrosse games
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And I'm willing to sacrifice work in order for that achievement, in order for that connection
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And maybe in another aspect, maybe if it was a different podcast, or maybe if I was in the
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middle of a book release or something else, I may have made a bit a different decision.
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But that was the decision I made based on all of the factors, all of the considerations,
00:10:02.720
not just the one dimensional consideration that most people look at.
00:10:09.120
I just, I think that lays a good groundwork for us then to jump in specifically around
00:10:15.700
And I think we ought to really consider how the decisions we're making impact other people,
00:10:21.360
not only from the perspective of our relationships with them, but also the other duties, obligations,
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So questions from the Iron Council, William Pinnell.
00:10:36.680
I feel like I do a good job serving my family and my wife does an extraordinary job serving
00:10:42.940
Where I falter sometimes is communicating what I need and want.
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My wife often tells me to speak loudly and clearly into the microphone, but there are times
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I find it difficult to convey what I want and need.
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Any suggestions on how to improve this, improve in this area?
00:11:01.480
It's, it takes a, so will it takes a little practice?
00:11:06.000
Well, it takes a lot of practice actually, because communicating your thoughts is probably
00:11:09.860
something that you grew up thinking it wasn't the right thing to do.
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And I think this might be a generational thing.
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But my, my parents era was children are to be seen and not heard.
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And so that, like we have these programs that are running through our mind constantly where,
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Hey, you're not supposed to express your ideas.
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If you express your ideas, you're putting people out.
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You're, you even hear it now you're being selfish or you're, you're bragging or you're making
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yourself the center of attention, or you're not serving other people the way you ought
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And so all of these little phrases and these mindsets make us believe that if we're communicating
00:11:51.600
what we desire, that somehow we're putting other people out.
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Your wife clearly wants you to communicate with her because she's suggesting that you do.
00:12:02.700
So what I would spend some time doing is when I go into certain environments, I would spend
00:12:07.080
more time before I get into the environment, thinking about what I want.
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So let's say this weekend, you and your wife want to go on a date instead of just showing
00:12:17.340
up and just hoping it all goes well, go with some intentionality.
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What do you want to accomplish out of the date?
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What conversations do you want to have with this date?
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Is it to break away from the kids for the weekend to unwind?
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Is it to have deep and meaningful conversations?
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Is it later that evening for the purpose of physical connection?
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But start thinking about what you want out of those moments.
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And then it's just a matter of communicating it.
00:12:46.760
And you might say something like, hey, hon, I'm really excited to go out this weekend.
00:12:50.400
Man, I feel like I've been disconnected to you because I've been so busy with this project
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And I just want to let you know, I don't really want to talk about work tonight.
00:12:58.800
What I'd like to do is talk about the kids or future planning or what are fears and goals
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She's going to feel like you have some intentionality and thoughtfulness behind you taking her out
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on a date rather than just showing up and checking it off the box.
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So, yeah, I would spend time thinking about what you want out of these interactions because
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only then will you have the ability to communicate them to her.
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What do you think the risk is, Ryan, that stops men from communicating as well?
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Like, I understand that we might have some generational elements that kind of has perpetuated this
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What's the fear that you think that most men have of like, oh, I'm going to keep this
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I would say fear of looking foolish is certainly one of those things.
00:14:00.580
You know, if you say something, somebody might mock or mimic or ridicule you for having
00:14:12.420
I would also say the fear of putting other people out.
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I know a lot of men who say, hey, I don't want to cause any imposition or I don't want
00:14:23.500
And they think that if they're sharing their ideas that somehow it comes at the expense of
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But yeah, I think for the most part, it's just a fear of how it will be received.
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Even think about really difficult conversations that you might need to have with your wife.
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There's also a fear that there's going to be some sort of punishment.
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And that punishment might be that a woman you love is no longer wanting to be in a relationship
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or that she'll be mad and it'll ruin the evening.
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And you'll have to deal with the fallout of it for several days or several weeks, whatever
00:15:01.740
I've had a lot of great conversations with my girlfriend, specifically just over the past,
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And not all of them are comfortable conversations.
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We talk about what we agree with and what we don't agree on.
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And I don't, I always walk away feeling better about the relationship.
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But I would, if she was here, I think she would say that she's willing to risk the relationship
00:15:26.460
as am I, in order to gain alignment and to make sure that we have the connection that
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it feels like we do, because it's important to both of us, if we're thinking about what
00:15:39.920
takes place in the future, that there is some chemistry and there is alignment.
00:15:44.060
And the only way you find that out is by discussing and talking about it.
00:15:52.780
Is it, do you know, Jeremy's, how do you pronounce Jeremy?
00:15:59.200
What are some indicators you look for in determining a relationship is no longer serving the other
00:16:05.860
Do you have advice on pulling back without burning bridges?
00:16:14.380
So what are some indicators you look for to determining a relationship is no longer serving
00:16:27.860
If, if things start to become, or maybe indifference is maybe a better way to say that where the way
00:16:34.840
that you show up is not important or the way that the other person shows up feels unimportant.
00:16:41.480
That's a level of indifference that says that there's some real issues going on in the relationship.
00:16:47.140
I mean, if you guys are mad at each other, there's still a level of care because people
00:16:52.040
get mad at the people that they value their opinion and they value who they are.
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You wouldn't be that mad if you weren't vested in whatever it is you're upset about.
00:17:01.860
It's when a person becomes indifferent to what's going on that, you know, the relationship is in
00:17:08.000
Um, I would also say that the level of selfishness might increase.
00:17:13.720
You might be willing to sacrifice time with that person increasingly for your own pursuits
00:17:21.140
And the other party starts taking your thoughts and ideas and considerations into, into mind
00:17:27.280
and starts to isolate or becomes more and more selfish.
00:17:32.260
And that might mean, it doesn't exclusively mean that, but it could mean that something's going on
00:17:39.260
Um, I would also say any sort of changed behavior is an indicator because we all have personalities
00:17:49.220
And if you've been with a romantic, uh, relationship for a long period of time, 20 years, for example,
00:17:56.200
I mean, you already know, you know who that person is.
00:17:59.760
If that behavior starts to change, like she starts to go out with her girlfriends all the
00:18:05.500
Um, or she becomes indifferent, like I said, and she was always very, um, empathetic or she
00:18:13.760
Maybe she doesn't ask for your opinion anymore, but she used to really be interested, invested
00:18:21.180
Those are behavioral changes that really need to be addressed and considered.
00:18:26.200
As you guys move forward, what was the second part of the question though, Kip?
00:18:32.000
Um, do you have advice on pulling back without burning bridges?
00:18:37.020
Yeah, I think it would probably depend on the type of relationship.
00:18:41.320
I hope we're not just talking about romantic relationships here because I don't really
00:18:45.360
think, especially if you're committed to somebody and you made commitments and promises
00:18:49.380
that you just have the luxury of pulling back, so to speak.
00:18:52.880
Like, but if it's somebody like, yeah, unannounced pulling back, yeah, like, right.
00:18:59.640
Um, if it's a friend or an acquaintance, maybe that relationship is no longer, that's how,
00:19:08.320
Um, maybe they're just not helping them in life anymore.
00:19:11.780
I don't, I really don't think you owe as much as maybe you think you do.
00:19:15.840
Um, if you feel like you need to have a conversation about it.
00:19:19.360
So Kip, if, um, you and I are really good friends, if for whatever reason, I didn't want
00:19:25.020
to maintain that friendship with you, depending on the severity of what went down between us,
00:19:30.000
I would probably, the more severe it was what went on between us, I would definitely be more
00:19:36.880
So, Hey Kip, you know what, like, man, we've been friends for a long time, but the past
00:19:42.180
couple of months, you know, we've, we've butted heads.
00:19:45.460
Um, we had some issues that we fought over with our families.
00:19:48.960
And I want to tell you, I, I do appreciate you as a friend, but I need to step back for
00:19:54.740
these reasons and reevaluate how we're going to move forward because I'm not sure if I want
00:20:00.460
to, but I want to, I want to look at it from a different perspective.
00:20:03.060
I think I could probably say that if it was a severe incident, if it was just something
00:20:08.420
where maybe we weren't close friends, we were casual acquaintances and we hung out every
00:20:13.040
once in a while, I really wouldn't feel the need to explain my departure to you.
00:20:17.780
Um, I would gradually, uh, phase conversations out, phase communication out, um, phase family
00:20:28.120
And I would just replace those with other relationships that I'm interested in developing.
00:20:31.760
And, and I think that can happen very organically, but I would say if there was something,
00:20:36.540
some critical event or something that happened, then I would be more, and especially if I'm
00:20:43.100
invested in that relationship, I'd be more likely to bring it up than just to ignore it
00:20:50.620
Um, Travis Gare, I'm trying to get back into the lives of my son, his mother of my son and
00:20:58.700
his mother, sorry, I've been on and off for 10 years.
00:21:01.740
I'm making changes to my life when we're working things out, but my issue is the patient
00:21:08.800
I understand that there's been a lot of hurt caused with, with both of them and it's going
00:21:13.640
to take some time, but when things are going good, it doesn't seem like it makes a difference
00:21:20.280
Um, I know it does, but how do I get over needing that self gratification or the guests
00:21:27.200
selfishness of being acknowledged or doing good or making the changes?
00:21:31.040
How, how do I humble myself and put myself aside and just accept and enjoy the time that
00:21:37.160
I do have with him and understand that things will fall into place.
00:21:44.780
Well, you answered, I wrote down consistency as part of this, a romantic.
00:21:52.760
Do you think, uh, uh, getting back into a romantic relationship with the mom or just
00:21:59.460
like he's been absent from his kid's life and he's trying to be, um, more involved.
00:22:06.580
And because of that, he's, you know, obviously some level of relationship needs to be established
00:22:13.340
I think it's that I think it's, I mean, after 10 years, I think he's trying to get on in
00:22:19.560
good graces with his son's mom so that he can have a better relationship with him.
00:22:25.360
Um, and if it is romantic, yeah, you know, I, I don't know that the answer really changes
00:22:30.560
all that much, but, uh, it doesn't sound like that to me.
00:22:34.520
It sounds like he's more interested in the relationship with his son than he is in the
00:22:38.640
relationship with his son's mom, his ex, Y, I don't know the exact situation.
00:22:46.160
So he answered it first by saying being consistent, that's number one.
00:22:49.720
And it would be really easy for me just to say, Hey, just focus on the journey and focus
00:22:54.460
on doing the right things and letting everything else fall where it may.
00:22:59.080
But you already know that he's already talking about that, but how do you do that?
00:23:03.980
Um, one strategy that I've been using in my life, cause I do have a similar circumstance,
00:23:09.360
um, with, but with all of my children to different degrees and also with my ex is I don't like
00:23:19.080
this phrasing, but I think it'll help people understand the game of connection.
00:23:23.420
And I don't know why that resonates with me, but when I look at things as a game, not as
00:23:28.660
it's insignificant, that's not what I'm saying, or not as if this is just silly games and doesn't
00:23:34.220
really matter in the grand scheme of things it does.
00:23:39.600
But when I talk about game, the reason that it lands with me is because there's rules to
00:23:45.420
the game and there's ways to be better at the game than you currently are.
00:23:50.000
And so I measure my performance in the game of connection based on how good I am at playing
00:23:59.980
the game, not the jet, not the overall outcome.
00:24:02.640
So here's a great way to look at this in the world of jujitsu.
00:24:08.800
When you, when, when guys start training at the same time, let's say there's five guys and
00:24:15.040
they start training on or about the same time, it's hard to know that you're getting better.
00:24:20.860
You don't, you don't actually think you're getting better because everybody's getting
00:24:25.540
And so you're all elevating to roughly the same degree.
00:24:31.240
And so it's like, man, I keep getting beat by the same guys, or I keep beating the same
00:24:36.020
And I feel like I'm, but if you were to take that and give it an outside perspective,
00:24:40.080
you could see, oh wait, oh, I actually am getting better.
00:24:42.920
Cause now I'm training with new guys and I can see my progress in relation to how other
00:24:50.460
And it's the same thing with the relationship is you could be getting better, but not experience
00:24:58.540
So does that mean you're not doing the right thing?
00:25:02.940
No, I think it just takes a long time, especially when you're talking about 10 years of potential
00:25:09.340
alienation, 10 years of stories that your son may have heard 10 years of assumptions that
00:25:15.720
your son has made up in his mind about why you haven't been as present as either would
00:25:22.320
And that's going to take a long time of consistency, but does that mean that you're not getting better
00:25:28.840
No, it just means it takes time and trust me, they see it, they acknowledge it.
00:25:33.120
And I bet, I'd be willing to bet that they're waiting for you to fail.
00:25:37.380
And I know that sounds pessimistic, but it's really important that we as men understand
00:25:41.820
that because when you, whenever you change your behavior and it's different than what
00:25:47.300
it's been and that what people know, they're naturally skeptical.
00:25:51.480
So it's easy for you as a dad to show up once a week and say, I've changed, I'm going
00:25:57.240
And your kids are looking at you and saying, we'll see, I've heard this song before, we'll
00:26:05.180
And so that's the first hurdle you need to overcome that, whoa, maybe dad actually is
00:26:10.680
And once you get through that, now it starts to get into the realm of building and developing
00:26:15.720
and connecting and all the other things that go along with reigniting the relationship.
00:26:21.680
But let me ask you this, if it never worked out the way that you wanted it to, would you
00:26:32.500
And if the answer is not yes, you've got a deeper problem.
00:26:37.820
If you never connected with your kid and his mom the way that you wanted to, and you feel
00:26:43.940
like, well, if I didn't connect with them, I wouldn't even do this, then I think there's
00:26:49.520
And I'm not saying that you feel this way, by the way, but I think there's an integrity
00:26:54.300
And I think you really add a question yourself, am I doing this because this is what a good
00:27:00.080
Or am I doing this because I'll be acknowledged and rewarded for it?
00:27:04.320
The latter is inferior motive from where I stand.
00:27:10.340
And it's inferior because it's fleeting, right?
00:27:13.960
If you need the confirmation constantly and the affirmations from them that you're worth it
00:27:19.080
and you're doing a great job or whatever, then what is it rooted in?
00:27:26.660
Like there's a lot of power, I think, in this circumstance, getting really present to they
00:27:35.320
And maybe one way to look at this is they may never, Travis, they may never decide to show
00:27:49.020
So are you going to still make sure that your kid knows that you love them?
00:27:59.580
And if you can get to that, then you can deal with the hardship of it, right?
00:28:02.840
And then I think, look for the wins in the other areas, right?
00:28:05.600
Like, am I, okay, make a game out of it, right?
00:28:11.620
I don't need the validation from them to know that I'm doing the right thing.
00:28:15.720
Because my objective is not that they'll appreciate and love me.
00:28:19.600
My objective is that they know that I love him.
00:28:29.820
You know, and I'd also say celebrate the small wins.
00:28:32.460
You know, if your son calls you, that to me is a small little win.
00:28:39.640
Even if it was just to ask for permission to go hang out with his buddy, he called you.
00:28:46.540
Maybe he shares a short, small, silly story about something that
00:28:55.400
As seemingly as insignificant as it is, he feels compelled to share something about his
00:29:01.820
Or maybe you invite him to go play catch in the backyard.
00:29:07.400
And normally he just wants to watch TV or play video games or isolate.
00:29:12.500
But this time he comes out and he plays with you.
00:29:19.660
Use that as fuel to say, okay, maybe this is actually working.
00:29:23.800
And five minutes of baseball next week might turn into 10 minutes.
00:29:28.080
And the story about his buddy at school might now turn into the story about how he was getting
00:29:36.060
And the fact that he called you might now turn into him initiating, I love you, dad.
00:29:47.540
You can build it up over time, but just celebrate those small wins, honor, acknowledge what they
00:29:53.120
And then remember, your response, and this is what I have to remember, is that my response
00:30:03.740
And it might not be something that he is deliberately administering, but it's a test all the same.
00:30:08.920
And if I lose my cool when I'm being tested by one of my children in that way, it's less likely that they
00:30:19.000
will do that or what I'm looking for in the future.
00:30:28.700
And your job is to show them that they're safe when they tell you things you do want to hear.
00:30:35.100
And also when they say things you don't, that they're safe, because then that gives them
00:30:40.180
permission to be more connected to you the next time around.
00:30:48.000
But that's something that I'm personally working on with my children.
00:30:53.040
Mr. Jenkins, Matthew Jenkins, how do you each manage your time so that you prioritize time
00:30:58.860
with your ladies and each of your children regularly?
00:31:02.200
Life seems to be so good at smothering out any time and consistency in that department for me.
00:31:12.040
Well, first, just don't get bogged down and distracted with nonsense.
00:31:25.820
If I get on my phone, my phone's over there on the stand.
00:31:28.900
If I get on my phone today and I start doom scrolling for the next 30 to 40 minutes,
00:31:34.640
I might convince myself that that's okay because I'm just taking a breather from work or whatever.
00:31:39.140
But I could take that 40 minutes and I could bust my butt at work so much so that I get more done than I ever have throughout the last couple of weeks.
00:31:48.720
And then what do you think that does when I get home?
00:31:51.880
It spills over into what I do when I get home because now I'm more present.
00:31:55.300
I'm more satisfied and proud of how I tackled my day.
00:32:02.200
When I'm with my children, I'm not thinking about, oh, I forgot to send that email and I didn't have time to do this and this.
00:32:09.420
So I know I was as productive as I possibly could have been.
00:32:11.780
And that's what allows me to be present in the moment.
00:32:18.780
And when it comes time to spend with my children, it's whatever's important to them.
00:32:24.540
I bought this little Honda, 1980 Honda Express.
00:32:31.000
And my son, my youngest son loves to ride that around with me.
00:32:36.280
So this morning, I got up a little early before our Iron Council call, did a few things.
00:32:42.100
And then that way, as soon as I was done with my call, I could take him on a little ride around the neighborhood.
00:33:03.160
Like when you just need to get away for a second and just have a break from the kids.
00:33:12.740
And I said, hey, bud, I'm going to run over to the grocery store and get the stuff.
00:33:24.100
I'm like, no, he's not going to ask you much more to be doing stuff like that.
00:33:38.720
But why shouldn't he be there with me when I do that?
00:33:42.120
Now I get my groceries done and I get time with my son.
00:33:47.360
When I get back, when I got back last night, my oldest was out hitting golf balls into a
00:33:54.700
And so I went out there and I hit golf balls with him.
00:34:00.240
My, um, my other son, it seems like I've got a lot.
00:34:05.160
So my other son, uh, he's, he's into lacrosse right now.
00:34:14.000
I mean, there's, I don't, you don't have to give them all the time, but you do have to
00:34:20.460
And then the other thing I do, Matt, and this one, guys, if you're not doing this, you need
00:34:26.240
Every week, once a week, every Thursday at 1130, I take one of my children to lunch and
00:34:34.900
So that means I'm going to lunch just me and them once per month with, with my children
00:34:40.920
individual, individually, just with them and me.
00:34:45.860
I took my daughter to subway last week and we were there for 25 minutes and then I dropped
00:34:51.100
her back off and that, you know, we had the 25 minutes together, not a long time, but it
00:34:56.920
So yeah, I don't need, why would I take lunch by myself if I could take lunch with my kids
00:35:05.000
And then there's a few strategies that have worked for me.
00:35:08.960
You know, one thing that comes to mind for me, Matt is just getting clear on the price.
00:35:13.160
You know, we kind of talked about this earlier, right?
00:35:15.120
Everyone wants, everyone wants this success, but they're not clear on the cost of it.
00:35:20.800
And there might be, you may have cut out the nonsense.
00:35:25.900
Maybe right now it's a bunch of relationships with non-family members because you're great
00:35:30.240
at networking and it's work and it's these other things.
00:35:34.500
What's the price that you're willing to pay to prioritize those other things?
00:35:47.340
Maybe it's hanging out with your, your pals needs to be diminished a little bit to reprioritize
00:35:55.400
But when we find ourselves really busy, especially guys that have already removed all the nonsense,
00:36:00.380
nonsense, get clear on the price that you're willing to pay and what you're willing to stop
00:36:05.960
Um, so then that way you can execute against it.
00:36:08.900
I think where we fail a lot, Ryan, a lot of guys is we just work harder or I'll just do
00:36:21.900
And I think there's, there's power in that clarity.
00:36:25.220
Well, I think also knowing that not everything and everyone deserves the same amount of attention
00:36:32.500
And for somebody like Matt, that's going to be hard because he is such a social person
00:36:36.900
and he's a really caring person, but that's the reality of it.
00:36:40.580
You know, let me give you, let me give you an example of this in practice.
00:36:45.800
So we've got a good friend, Jay Gerdulo, who, who's been on the podcast a couple of weeks
00:36:52.300
Well, he and his son are starting a podcast and I didn't like the name of his podcast.
00:36:58.140
I don't think it's conducive to what he's trying to accomplish.
00:37:01.520
So I told him that because I care about those guys.
00:37:04.580
And so I told Jay, I'm like, I don't, he needs to change the name of his podcast.
00:37:18.520
And, you know, initially I was like, okay, I'm going to jump on the phone.
00:37:23.860
I'm like, I don't have time for that right now.
00:37:28.320
And so I left him a voice memo and I said, Hey, here's something I want you to do.
00:37:35.360
And the exercise was to identify who he wanted to serve.
00:37:40.900
And I said, when you, when you go through that exercise, then I, then I want you to message
00:37:46.440
me back and tell me who it is you're trying to serve.
00:37:50.480
So I didn't even get on the phone with him yet.
00:37:51.980
And not that I don't want to, I just don't have the time.
00:37:55.620
So he sends me a message right back and he's like, mission accomplished.
00:38:02.060
I sent him another voice memo and I said, okay, now I want you to think about the three pain
00:38:06.620
points, the three greatest pain points, this individual, this ideal, ideal listener is
00:38:19.680
I haven't had a chance to get back with him yet.
00:38:21.440
But the reason I bring this up is because it's still a way for me to serve him because
00:38:30.200
I want them to win, but I, I can only give so much.
00:38:37.120
And if somebody doesn't understand that it's not my responsibility.
00:38:41.800
So I can't give him all the attention that I would like.
00:38:46.020
I can't give him the same amount of attention that I want to give to my children because
00:38:53.500
So we can still be helpful and we can still do what we can, but we have to be smart about
00:38:58.500
If, if another example, if I have a hundred men who listen to this podcast and they all
00:39:04.500
start having the same questions over and over again, then what I need to do is I need
00:39:08.900
to put together a podcast on that subject or a white paper on that subject, um, or a resource
00:39:19.900
That way I'm helping them, which is what I want, but I'm not doing it at the expense of
00:39:25.840
all of my other commitments and responsibilities.
00:39:28.140
There's ways to leverage and you just need to be willing to explore what they are.
00:39:38.540
If we don't do what you're saying, Ryan, is we will fail in a bunch of those relationships
00:39:49.100
And you'll, you'll generate more damage attempting to appease all of those relationships.
00:39:55.840
Then you would, if you were just clear and concise and established boundaries and communicated
00:40:00.600
to people, your proper priorities and what you're willing and not willing to do, they'll
00:40:04.380
respect you more and you'll probably do a better job in those relationships than trying
00:40:20.320
I'm handpicking some ones because of these are really good.
00:40:23.460
Christopher Jackson, since I've been working on my masculinity and my wife is stuck in
00:40:29.400
hers, it seems like it's adding gas to the fire.
00:40:33.620
How take back, how do I take back the masculine energy in the relationship and let her be in
00:40:43.880
Um, and I, and I already think I know what's happening here and I could be wrong.
00:40:49.840
But he says, since I've been working on my masculinity.
00:40:53.520
So what that leads me to believe is that for a period of time, potentially a long period
00:40:58.160
of time, he was not stepping into his masculinity.
00:41:01.480
And because he didn't step into his masculinity, his wife had to do it.
00:41:06.060
So now his wife is required to be the woman of the house.
00:41:10.220
And now she's also required to be the man of the house.
00:41:13.220
So she's leading, she's directing, she's controlling, she's dictating.
00:41:22.720
And so she's making decisions and she's organizing everything.
00:41:25.720
And she's the one who's signing the kids up for the teams.
00:41:30.980
And she's the one figuring out everything about the vacations.
00:41:34.680
And I know this because I actually used to do this the same way where my ex-wife was required
00:41:42.000
to make all of the decisions, do all of the things, as long as it didn't have anything
00:41:47.080
And so your wife is likely stepping into her masculinity because you weren't.
00:41:52.480
So now that you're stepping into your masculinity, she's like, what the hell?
00:42:01.960
And now you think that you can do it better than me?
00:42:11.480
And I'm not trying to be harsh in my assumptions here, but I've seen this so many times.
00:42:17.640
So part of what's going to need to happen here is you're going to need to confess.
00:42:22.700
And what I mean is you're going to need to go to her.
00:42:24.780
Maybe you've already done this and you have to say this.
00:42:27.500
Hey, hon, I know for the past five years that I have been absent as the man of the house.
00:42:44.300
I have not casted any vision for what we want for the family and for our kids and for our future.
00:42:51.460
And I imagine that you probably feel pretty lonely.
00:42:56.700
And you probably feel like you're not only having to be the woman, but you're also having to be the man.
00:43:01.100
And I know that what I'm about to tell you, you might have reservations with because of the way that I've showed up.
00:43:09.220
But I want you to know starting today, I am going to be the man that you need me to be.
00:43:18.900
And then you tell her, I'm going to make decisions.
00:43:35.940
And she might not give you much because she doesn't believe you.
00:43:43.240
You know, I hear this all the time when guys are like, I'm going to start this business, but my wife's not on board.
00:43:46.940
Yeah, because you've said, I'm going to start a business two dozen times and all you do is spend the family's money and then lose it all and then get excited about the next bright, shiny object two weeks later.
00:43:59.400
So, yeah, pardon me if she's a little skeptical about it.
00:44:04.480
So you communicate this with her and then you let her tell you what she needs to tell you.
00:44:30.240
And then you go to work on doing what you say you're going to do.
00:44:35.240
But I think a conversation needs to take place if it hasn't already.
00:44:38.620
And a little bit of understanding that, yeah, why would she relinquish leadership to somebody who can't lead?
00:44:55.840
And probably based on what you're saying, a little justified.
00:45:07.760
Eric Tyler, what inner work should a man do before he can truly show up well in a relationship?
00:45:22.820
Yeah, I mean, Kip, what would you say is, let me think about how to word this.
00:45:30.000
What would you say is the biggest character flaw that men have generally, just generally, broadly?
00:45:43.040
Because I think there's always going to be triggers, right?
00:45:45.680
Like none of us are going to come untainted into relationships.
00:45:51.040
We're going to have stuff that we picked up our entire life, weird nuances, things that make us upset, all kinds of stuff.
00:46:00.080
I think the flaw is not so much in those things.
00:46:03.480
The flaw is in the unwillingness that when the upset occurs, being expressed around what it was and being aware of it.
00:46:17.660
The willingness to express it, but the willingness to understand it well enough that we express it correctly.
00:46:25.340
In the early days of my life, I would have communicated my upset, but my upset, Ryan, was you're the problem.
00:46:35.140
And so I wasn't even self-aware enough to understand it was my creation.
00:46:41.360
So I think the self-awareness of the trigger and then the willingness to express it in a way so our significant other can understand it.
00:46:53.160
Yeah, I think I would agree with a lot of that.
00:47:00.560
I don't know if it's the, I think it's kind of in conjunction with what I, what, what I believe.
00:47:10.900
I think we're angry and I don't, and I don't, I don't know.
00:47:16.160
I don't know where it comes from for anybody specifically who might be listening to the podcast.
00:47:21.920
But I think that we need to figure out reasons why we're angry.
00:47:27.480
Last night, the boys had taken that little moped out and it was raining.
00:47:34.940
And it leaks a little gas right now until I fix that.
00:47:44.740
When he got done, he just wielded onto the, it was on the gravel, but he wielded over onto the grass when he was done.
00:47:59.880
And, you know, I was, I think I was doing the dishes or something.
00:48:06.200
And I'm like, and in the 10 steps between the kitchen sink and where it goes in the living room, like, what are you doing?
00:48:20.160
And I said, hey, bud, when you're done with the bike, where do you think you ought to put it?
00:48:25.560
I said, yeah, in the gravel where you found it.
00:48:49.900
Is it a feeling of overwhelm with all that we have to do throughout the day?
00:48:58.760
Or what I'm saying is the inner work that a man needs to do is get to the root of his anger, his impatience, his frustration, his agitation.
00:49:09.300
And ask to, now this goes back to what you said, and I agree, is how do we express those things properly?
00:49:23.720
So if I'm angry because one of the kids doesn't put something back where it belongs, that should bother me.
00:49:30.160
If it does, and I go punch the wall, I think all of us would say that's an improper expression of anger.
00:49:37.580
But if I say, hey, guys, look, we have a lot of nice things.
00:49:46.920
And we need to keep our house nice and orderly and neat and have things in the right places so we can have the, enjoy the things that we have for a longer period of time.
00:50:00.620
Or if, you know, my girlfriend says something and we do have interesting conversations.
00:50:07.080
We both think on a level very similarly, but we don't always agree on everything, which makes it fun and frustrating at times for both of us, I'm sure.
00:50:20.240
But if I yell at her and shut her down, how's that going to help the relationship?
00:50:26.920
If, on the other hand, I say, you know, I don't agree with that and here's what I believe and here's why, but I can see where you're coming from.
00:50:40.620
And I think once we can do that inner work where we're not just immediately agitated because we don't get our way, that's when you really have the power to be inside of relationships that could potentially benefit you.
00:50:56.080
I don't think you can fully do this on your own.
00:50:59.880
The people that we love the most will trigger us the hardest.
00:51:04.900
And that's one of the best things about a relationship.
00:51:09.440
Is with my kids, they know exactly how to trigger me.
00:51:15.320
And I don't think they're always doing it on purpose.
00:51:20.160
Those little humans, even in their triggering, are really, really good for me because it helps me regulate.
00:51:28.580
My girlfriend can trigger if she says certain things, and I'm sure I can trigger if I say certain things to her, but that's good.
00:51:34.900
That's an important component of a relationship because she's making me evaluate the way I show up, and I hope I'm doing the same for her.
00:51:47.400
So I don't think that you should just isolate and go wall yourself off in some lake cabin and stay away from humans altogether until you have this all figured out.
00:51:57.300
I think interactions with humans that you care about will actually help you address this if you do it intentionally.
00:52:03.940
Although going up to the mountains and getting lost in the woods actually sounds pretty good right now.
00:52:11.920
I'm sure every man listening to this podcast right now has had that thought at one point of, you know, maybe I should just pack up my bag and just, you know, go up into the woods and call it.
00:52:21.420
Have you ever seen, have you ever seen those memes that are on like Facebook or Instagram?
00:52:25.300
And it's like, it has, it's a question and it's this cabin and it's in the woods and it's secluded.
00:52:31.020
And it's like, if you, if I could give you a million dollars, but you had to live here for 30 days with no power and no people, what would you do?
00:52:40.720
I'm like, maybe I would do that for free, let alone for a million dollars.
00:52:45.240
It just proves you that the people who made that meme was a girl, was a female and not a male.
00:52:53.280
Cause every male reads that and go, that's a stupid question.
00:53:00.520
One more, one more question is, are you good with one more?
00:53:05.100
Then I got a funny story that I was going to share with you.
00:53:12.160
Because this is in the spirit of don't just disconnect, right?
00:53:16.600
I mean, obviously we can talk about, um, Kirk, right.
00:53:20.760
And his assassination a couple of weeks ago, right.
00:53:23.080
What was he willing to just stop having conversation?
00:53:28.540
Or, or, or, or really was his mission around continuing dialogue, right.
00:53:33.660
And discourse when people disagreed and, and J's, uh, James Grayson's question is this.
00:53:38.860
We are all really divided in this country along party lines and spirituality.
00:53:43.720
It's gotten to a point where I, I just don't talk about it with certain people or don't
00:53:49.240
talk, uh, to them at all because they shut down the conversation.
00:53:53.200
How can we improve relationships with family and friends who hold different beliefs about
00:53:57.700
God and politics when they are openly rude and disrespectful towards people of conservative
00:54:04.380
If they're, if they're just rude and disrespectful broadly and generally, like who it's not your
00:54:11.200
job to be the savior of the world, like let them be whatever they're going to be.
00:54:15.320
But if they're doing that in your presence to your wife or your children or you, then not
00:54:23.940
only is it appropriate, it's a requirement that you say something.
00:54:27.760
So if you were saying something Kip in front of my family, my kids, like whoever might
00:54:32.740
be, I would say, Hey Kip, I, and I would do this privately first, but I would say, Hey
00:54:39.740
Kip, you know, I'm raising my kids a certain way.
00:54:43.760
And I really want them to understand that even though people disagree, we can do it civilly
00:54:49.360
But what you said earlier tonight to my children is not acceptable.
00:54:54.360
So please do not talk to them like that, or please do not talk to me like that or whatever.
00:55:03.860
No, no, no issue, but I would be, I would really appreciate it if you didn't bring those
00:55:10.500
conversations up and have those types of conversations with my children.
00:55:15.020
Now, if you can respect that, we can still be friends.
00:55:19.060
If you can't respect that you're out because there's boundaries and your job as a man is
00:55:25.760
If I did that respectfully, I think people would find it respect.
00:55:34.340
I think they'd say, you know what, man, I don't agree with that, but man, Ryan, he stands
00:55:40.620
And, and, and I would also say to you, Kip, I'd say, Hey, if you want to have a knock
00:55:45.080
down, drag down fight about it, I'll do that with you.
00:55:47.640
And you and me can do that one-to-one, but we don't do it in this environment, but Hey,
00:56:00.440
Now, if they keep doing it or they're not respectful of your boundaries, those are people
00:56:07.660
And I think I have, I have people in my life who I don't have certain conversations with
00:56:13.660
because it just, it's not conducive to my own mental sanity.
00:56:21.980
And in those moments, the only thing I can do is confuse them.
00:56:27.440
And let me help you understand what I mean by that.
00:56:29.480
When people make up a narrative about party lines, spiritual beliefs, tribalism, as we'd
00:56:37.040
call it, they assume that you're going to behave a certain way.
00:56:41.820
You know, for, for example, somebody who's a liberal might make the assumption that conservatives
00:56:52.540
I think that's safe to say that that is a general assumption that could be made about
00:56:58.700
But here's the, here's where you confuse people is when you show up with kindness and empathy
00:57:06.220
and love towards your children and respect towards them and other people that you don't agree
00:57:20.840
I don't, you don't seem like one of them on anything, but he seems like a good dad.
00:57:30.720
He seems like he actually cares about people and it short circuits their brain, which is what
00:57:36.880
you want because it gets them to question that maybe our dogmatic tribalist beliefs about
00:57:44.220
people aren't always a hundred percent accurate.
00:57:47.200
So in those cases, you could be a really good example of what a conservative Christian looks
00:57:53.720
like and what it actually means to be a follower of Christ, not cowardly or passive or weak, but
00:58:00.360
strong and bold and courageous, but also loving towards other people.
00:58:05.380
Even if you don't love their choices or lifestyle guys, really good questions today.
00:58:09.860
I think we might have a few more to address and maybe we'll get to those next week, but
00:58:13.920
I'm digging the idea of doing the ask me things as topics.
00:58:21.460
We've done one on daily tracking and goal setting and performance throughout the week.
00:58:27.320
And then of course, this week we talked about developing and building better relationships.
00:58:36.640
In the meantime, if you want to dive deeper into these conversations and you want to be
00:58:40.340
around like-minded men who are all holding each other accountable, who are pressing in
00:58:46.140
the realm of fitness, the realm of finances and faith and family and every aspect of our
00:58:53.360
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00:58:58.580
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So, um, last weekend, uh, my girlfriend and I decided we were going to go zip lining and,
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uh, her sister and her brother-in-law wanted to do it.
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The four of us, we're going to go do it together.
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So we got this locked in about a month ago and last weekend it was, it was the date.
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So we go to, I think it's called Deer Creek, uh, state park or something in, in Midway.
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So we go up there and there's this big zip line thing and there's, I don't know, there's
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like a dozen or 15 zip lines that you just work through a course.
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We probably do like seven or eight different zip lines and we're working through the course
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and we come to the, the long one, like the, the, the pinnacle, the climax of the zip lining
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experience and it's long and it goes over the lake.
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So it starts at this, like the highest point of the mountain.
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So two people can go at the same time, one next to the other.
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And, and my girlfriend's like, well, I'm going to go on this one.
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And I said, I'll give you a, I'll give you a headstart.
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She gets a two to three second headstart and she's going, and then it's my turn.
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In fact, I'm going pretty slow down this thing, slower than I thought.
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And she's just gaining distance more and more distance.
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The, the clip thing on the, on the cable is smoking and sparking.
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So she, I'm watching her and she is just screaming down this.
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She gets to the end and I get right in the middle of the thing and it stops.
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I'm 150 feet in the air over the lake and they, we did a little training.
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And so when, when you, uh, when it's, if it stops short, you're supposed to turn around
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Well, I'm probably 300 yards from the platform or more and I'm trying to pull myself, but the
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Like it is locked up and I am not going anywhere and I'm dangling over the lake.
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And I look down and there's, there's a couple of guys fishing and they're looking up at me
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So I'm there for like 20 minutes dangling over the lake at 150 feet on this zip line.
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And then finally I see a worker, a woman, and she comes out, she like wheels herself out
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And she's like, okay, we're going to get you taken care of here.
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And she brought all of her equipment out and she switched me over to another clip or
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It like, she's like rescuing me in the middle of this thing.
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I need you to pull up so I can unclip you and put you on this one.
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And I pull myself up and I'm, you know, holding on for dear life.
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And she unclips it and clips it on the other one.
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And we get back to the thing and I'm like, oh my gosh, that was horrible.
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And you know, my girlfriend was laughing at first, but then she knew that this was like,
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So we get back and I'm like, what is happening?
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And she's like, no, I looked at it when I was up there.
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The woman at the top of the platform put the carabiners, they reversed the carabiners.
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So the one that was load bearing, she put it as the safety one and the safety one, she put
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And I was grinding, it was grinding on the cable and she showed me the carabiner and it
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had burned like an indent halfway through the carabiner.
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So if that would have went a little bit more, that one would have gave way.
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I almost died zip lining and I, and a little embarrassing and, and, and her and I laugh
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about this because I was rescued this weekend by a woman and that was ironic and funny and
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I was like, if I fall into this water, cause I was over the water.
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Like I'm not, if I, if this thing goes, I am not surviving this.
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So good thing you guys didn't see me on the news.
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Some random guy, you know, plummets to his death, just trying to have a good weekend with
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So anyways, guys, you know, hold, hold your loved ones close.
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Cause you never know when it's your time to go.
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And, and hopefully, yeah, hopefully you go fighting a bear or I don't know, something
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way cooler than falling off a zip line in the middle of the lake.
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Look at the iron council and then, uh, we'll be back next week until then go out there,
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take action and become the man you are meant to be.
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Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.
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You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.
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