Order of Man - Multi-Dimensionality, People-Pleasing, and Stepping Into Masculinity ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 There's this big zip line thing, and there's 15 zip lines that you just work through a course.

00:00:04.700 They have two lines on this one, so two people can go at the same time, one next to the other.

00:00:10.300 And I look up, I kid you not, the clip thing on the cable is smoking and sparking.

00:00:17.480 And I get right in the middle of the thing, and it stops.

00:00:21.400 And I am not going anywhere, and I'm dangling over the lake.

00:00:25.340 And I look down, and there's a couple guys fishing, and they're looking up at me like,

00:00:28.740 what the hell is this guy doing?

00:00:31.680 Kip, what's up, man?

00:00:32.660 Great to see you.

00:00:33.280 I hope that you had a good week.

00:00:34.340 It's Friday as of this recording, and it looks like we're both trying to close up shop for the week.

00:00:40.180 Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:00:41.900 It was a good week.

00:00:43.140 You know, here's my mantra.

00:00:44.740 I was thinking about this this morning.

00:00:46.200 Someone reached out to me on social media while I was at the gym, and they're like,

00:00:49.960 hey, how are things going?

00:00:51.680 And my response to them was, I'm in it.

00:00:55.440 And there's a bunch of things that I've been somewhat of a passenger or passive around.

00:01:02.560 And I'm not, I'm in this space of like, no, that's not going to work for me.

00:01:06.960 I need to be a little bit more assertive, aggressive, and go after whatever it is that

00:01:11.920 is bothering me and or that I want, and not just sit back and wait.

00:01:16.620 So I'm actually in a good place.

00:01:19.060 In the middle of it, though, right?

00:01:20.500 Like, I'm kind of like, oh, man, I need to do these things.

00:01:23.080 There's some uneasiness, right?

00:01:26.000 But I was also thinking about this, and I'd love to get your thoughts on this, is it's

00:01:30.920 actually in the unknown that anything's possible.

00:01:36.500 And so the unknown is what's required for possibility to be created, but it's also very

00:01:43.680 uncomfortable, right?

00:01:44.780 When you're not sure what's next, or what are you doing, or it's uneasy, but.

00:01:50.900 Yeah.

00:01:51.380 And I mean, it has to be in the unknown, because if possibility existed in the known, then you'd

00:01:55.940 already be achieving new possibilities, and you're not.

00:01:58.700 So it's got to be found somewhere other than where you're currently looking, right?

00:02:02.680 But you're right.

00:02:03.400 It is very uncomfortable.

00:02:04.960 Uh, and really unsettling at times and uneasy, but I think the key is just to know that you're

00:02:15.260 doing it for the right reason.

00:02:16.440 You know that you're knocking on doors that haven't previously been open to you, and it's

00:02:20.860 the price that you have to pay.

00:02:22.160 That's the thing that I found so often with so many men is that everybody wants what everyone

00:02:26.920 else has, but nobody wants to do what everybody else does.

00:02:29.720 So I might say, for example, well, I would love to be a jujitsu black belt.

00:02:36.300 Kip, how long have you been training?

00:02:40.320 16 years, 17 years.

00:02:42.460 Okay.

00:02:42.780 So are you willing to put in 17 years?

00:02:46.040 Well, no, no.

00:02:47.280 Okay.

00:02:47.520 Then you don't get to have that.

00:02:49.000 Or people will say, oh, Ryan, I'd love to have a podcast with the reach of yours.

00:02:52.720 Well, we've done 1600 episodes.

00:02:56.120 Are you willing to do 1600 episodes?

00:02:58.580 I don't know.

00:02:59.880 I'm kind of busy with other things.

00:03:01.180 Okay.

00:03:01.560 Then you don't get to have that.

00:03:03.660 And we just live in this really easy, modern times where we can actually have a lot of

00:03:12.540 the result without the effort.

00:03:14.200 I think about food, for example, we're in September.

00:03:17.980 A lot of my buddies are hunting elk right now, and they're out in the field and they're putting

00:03:22.260 in 20, 30, 40, 50, 100 miles backwoods stuff, packing hundreds of meat off the mountain.

00:03:29.760 And you don't have to do that.

00:03:32.280 You could just go to the grocery store and pick up a pack of meat from the grocery store.

00:03:39.220 So we've gotten so accustomed to just having what we want.

00:03:43.400 If you're a little warm, just go over to the thermostat and turn the AC on a little bit

00:03:48.600 more.

00:03:49.000 So we've become so accustomed to all these creature comforts at the expense of realizing,

00:03:53.880 oh, when there is something worthwhile, I don't get to just have it.

00:03:57.660 I actually have to put in the work sometimes for years, 10 years for order of man, 17 years

00:04:04.620 as a training jujitsu, like it's, it's just what is required.

00:04:10.080 Yeah.

00:04:10.500 And most people find themselves wanting without clarity of the price.

00:04:16.380 And so then there, then there's just this upset constantly, right?

00:04:19.800 Oh man, I wish.

00:04:21.080 Oh, I wish.

00:04:21.680 And it's like, well, stop wishing actually just get clear what's required and are you

00:04:26.060 willing to do it or not?

00:04:26.820 And if you're not, then stop, stop wanting it, you know, if you're not willing to put

00:04:31.340 the work in.

00:04:32.040 Yeah.

00:04:32.600 And that's okay.

00:04:33.300 There's a lot of things that I don't want and I'm okay with that.

00:04:38.500 Yeah.

00:04:39.100 And, and the clarity helps us, right?

00:04:41.500 Know that, but most of us don't get to the clarity side of that.

00:04:45.380 Yeah.

00:04:45.780 So our, our topic this month, um, the question that you pose to the iron council, um, our,

00:04:51.360 our brotherhood, uh, to learn more, um, order of man.com slash iron council, as well

00:04:56.360 as our Facebook group, facebook.com slash group slash order man was around building

00:05:03.140 relationships with people you love and you, and people that we want to serve and the importance

00:05:08.240 of that.

00:05:08.700 And, and I actually, when I thought about this question, um, I don't know, I, this just

00:05:15.180 entered my mind.

00:05:16.480 Um, and I kind of want to ask you this question first before we get into these specific questions,

00:05:20.900 but there's, there's a balance to things, right?

00:05:24.260 I mean, we've, we've talked about this somewhat and, and my fear was that I didn't want to

00:05:28.620 get the, I didn't want this not to be addressed, right?

00:05:31.480 As part of our, uh, our answers today, but our ability to foster relationships is a hell

00:05:40.360 of a lot easier when other elements of our lives are buttoned up, right?

00:05:46.580 Oh, it's, it's easier to do great at work when things are good at home.

00:05:51.800 It's good to, it's easier to do things well at home when things are good at work.

00:05:56.320 Right.

00:05:56.700 And, and even though we're doing specific topics here, part of the battle plan and part

00:06:01.980 of what we do in our council is around the importance of covering multiple elements of

00:06:07.400 our lives, because we're not naive to assume that like, Oh no, just double down on relationships.

00:06:13.380 These other things don't matter.

00:06:14.340 They absolutely do matter.

00:06:16.200 And so I wanted you to talk through that a little bit briefly around the importance of

00:06:20.400 that balance before we kind of dive in specifically around relationships, if that's okay.

00:06:26.540 Yeah.

00:06:27.120 And whenever anybody says balance, look, I don't want to get into semantical games.

00:06:33.520 I just want to describe concepts and we use words to describe concepts and certain words

00:06:39.660 mean different things to different people.

00:06:41.900 So I'm not trying to do the gotcha thing or use words that I'm trying to get to the understanding.

00:06:48.700 And what I want people to wrap their heads around is get that concept of balance out of

00:06:56.140 your head and instead use the word balancing because balancing is a verb balance is a state

00:07:05.340 or an objective, so I think that men believe that if they get it just right, whatever that

00:07:13.300 formula is between work and play and serving and financial and taking care of themselves and

00:07:20.940 pouring into their kids.

00:07:21.940 If they get those proportions just right, then everything will be perfect.

00:07:26.900 And you might get it just right, but our lives are dynamic.

00:07:31.420 And so one of the relationships that you have may require more of your attention at certain

00:07:37.660 times throughout your life and the other person's life.

00:07:40.920 And that may require more of you in that arena than maybe work or your own personal development,

00:07:47.020 which is why I like balancing.

00:07:48.980 If you think about any activity where you have to balance, whether it's something like jujitsu

00:07:54.280 or surfing or skateboarding or snowboard, skiing, whatever, it's a series of a thousand little

00:08:02.280 movements to keep you upright and going down that hill or riding that wave.

00:08:08.920 It's you constantly adjusting left to right, back and forth, moving forward, leaning this way,

00:08:14.880 leaning up.

00:08:15.520 It's just constant adjustments.

00:08:18.220 And that might sound exhausting in the realm of your life, but that's what you need to do

00:08:22.220 is you need to adjust constantly to the factors and the considerations in your life.

00:08:28.580 If one of your children is really struggling with something, then I'm going to pour more

00:08:32.860 into my children.

00:08:34.380 I'll give you an example.

00:08:36.860 I was invited to go to Dallas next week to go on a podcast, and I'm very much looking forward

00:08:42.440 to going on the podcast and meeting other people there.

00:08:45.520 And it's a great opportunity.

00:08:47.240 Well, I looked at my son's, my youngest son's lacrosse schedule.

00:08:51.600 He's got his last game on Tuesday night, and he's made comments about how important it is

00:08:58.140 that I'm there.

00:08:59.940 Yeah.

00:09:00.220 And he said, oh, dad, thank you for coming.

00:09:02.420 Or one day I was really distracted.

00:09:04.000 I was on my phone and I didn't think he was really paying attention.

00:09:07.440 But after the game, he said, why were you on your phone the whole time?

00:09:09.760 So he's keenly aware of the fact that I am there and if I'm present or not when I am

00:09:17.200 there.

00:09:17.800 So it's really important to him.

00:09:19.860 So I called the team up that I was going to go meet with in Dallas.

00:09:22.980 And I said, hey, I want to come out.

00:09:24.440 I just can't do Tuesday.

00:09:25.500 It's my son's last lacrosse game.

00:09:27.120 That's a decision that I'm making.

00:09:28.620 And they're good about it.

00:09:29.420 They said, great, we'll bump it back two to three weeks and no issue.

00:09:32.160 But that's the act of balancing is that I want my son to know that his lacrosse games

00:09:39.940 and him are important to me.

00:09:41.580 And I'm willing to sacrifice work in order for that achievement, in order for that connection

00:09:46.540 to take place.

00:09:48.400 And maybe in another aspect, maybe if it was a different podcast, or maybe if I was in the

00:09:54.300 middle of a book release or something else, I may have made a bit a different decision.

00:09:57.560 But that was the decision I made based on all of the factors, all of the considerations,

00:10:02.720 not just the one dimensional consideration that most people look at.

00:10:06.680 Excellent.

00:10:07.280 Yeah.

00:10:07.500 And hopefully you don't mind me doing that.

00:10:09.120 I just, I think that lays a good groundwork for us then to jump in specifically around

00:10:13.400 connection.

00:10:14.500 And I think it's great.

00:10:15.700 And I think we ought to really consider how the decisions we're making impact other people,

00:10:21.360 not only from the perspective of our relationships with them, but also the other duties, obligations,

00:10:27.300 and responsibilities we as men have.

00:10:29.680 Yeah.

00:10:30.360 Excellent.

00:10:31.260 All right.

00:10:31.800 Let's hop into it, man.

00:10:33.040 So questions from the Iron Council, William Pinnell.

00:10:36.680 I feel like I do a good job serving my family and my wife does an extraordinary job serving

00:10:42.100 me.

00:10:42.940 Where I falter sometimes is communicating what I need and want.

00:10:46.700 My wife often tells me to speak loudly and clearly into the microphone, but there are times

00:10:52.740 I find it difficult to convey what I want and need.

00:10:56.040 Any suggestions on how to improve this, improve in this area?

00:11:01.480 It's, it takes a, so will it takes a little practice?

00:11:06.000 Well, it takes a lot of practice actually, because communicating your thoughts is probably

00:11:09.860 something that you grew up thinking it wasn't the right thing to do.

00:11:13.720 And I think this might be a generational thing.

00:11:16.800 It's getting better.

00:11:17.680 But my, my parents era was children are to be seen and not heard.

00:11:26.300 And so that, like we have these programs that are running through our mind constantly where,

00:11:31.980 Hey, you're not supposed to express your ideas.

00:11:33.960 If you express your ideas, you're putting people out.

00:11:36.460 You're, you even hear it now you're being selfish or you're, you're bragging or you're making

00:11:42.200 yourself the center of attention, or you're not serving other people the way you ought

00:11:46.320 to.

00:11:46.540 And so all of these little phrases and these mindsets make us believe that if we're communicating

00:11:51.600 what we desire, that somehow we're putting other people out.

00:11:55.020 And I don't think that's the case.

00:11:56.520 Your wife clearly wants you to communicate with her because she's suggesting that you do.

00:12:02.700 So what I would spend some time doing is when I go into certain environments, I would spend

00:12:07.080 more time before I get into the environment, thinking about what I want.

00:12:11.120 So let's say this weekend, you and your wife want to go on a date instead of just showing

00:12:17.340 up and just hoping it all goes well, go with some intentionality.

00:12:22.460 What do you want to accomplish out of the date?

00:12:24.640 What conversations do you want to have with this date?

00:12:27.160 What is your goal and objective?

00:12:28.700 Is it to get closer to each other?

00:12:31.100 Is it to break away from the kids for the weekend to unwind?

00:12:34.900 Is it to have deep and meaningful conversations?

00:12:36.700 Is it later that evening for the purpose of physical connection?

00:12:40.980 But start thinking about what you want out of those moments.

00:12:44.300 And then it's just a matter of communicating it.

00:12:46.760 And you might say something like, hey, hon, I'm really excited to go out this weekend.

00:12:50.400 Man, I feel like I've been disconnected to you because I've been so busy with this project

00:12:54.920 at work.

00:12:55.360 And I just want to let you know, I don't really want to talk about work tonight.

00:12:58.800 What I'd like to do is talk about the kids or future planning or what are fears and goals

00:13:04.820 and hopes and desires or whatever it might be.

00:13:07.080 Are you good with that?

00:13:08.120 And of course, she's going to felt led.

00:13:11.040 She's going to feel important.

00:13:12.820 She's going to feel like you have some intentionality and thoughtfulness behind you taking her out

00:13:17.380 on a date rather than just showing up and checking it off the box.

00:13:21.540 So, or off the list rather.

00:13:22.960 So, yeah, I would spend time thinking about what you want out of these interactions because

00:13:28.720 only then will you have the ability to communicate them to her.

00:13:31.600 What do you think the risk is, Ryan, that stops men from communicating as well?

00:13:41.060 Like, I understand that we might have some generational elements that kind of has perpetuated this

00:13:46.660 way of thinking, but what's the cost?

00:13:49.000 Like, what is the drawback?

00:13:50.560 What's the fear that you think that most men have of like, oh, I'm going to keep this 1.00

00:13:55.220 to myself?

00:13:56.320 I would say fear of looking foolish is certainly one of those things.

00:14:00.580 You know, if you say something, somebody might mock or mimic or ridicule you for having

00:14:08.700 that thought.

00:14:09.820 I would say the fear of looking silly.

00:14:12.420 I would also say the fear of putting other people out.

00:14:16.880 I know a lot of men who say, hey, I don't want to cause any imposition or I don't want

00:14:21.860 to put you out or anything like that.

00:14:23.500 And they think that if they're sharing their ideas that somehow it comes at the expense of

00:14:27.180 other people.

00:14:27.700 So they don't want to be selfish.

00:14:30.640 But yeah, I think for the most part, it's just a fear of how it will be received.

00:14:34.540 Even think about really difficult conversations that you might need to have with your wife.

00:14:40.480 There's also a fear that there's going to be some sort of punishment.

00:14:43.760 And that punishment might be that a woman you love is no longer wanting to be in a relationship

00:14:48.640 or that she'll be mad and it'll ruin the evening.

00:14:51.740 And you'll have to deal with the fallout of it for several days or several weeks, whatever

00:14:55.520 it is.

00:14:56.480 So there's the risk of repercussion as well.

00:15:00.360 But I don't know.

00:15:01.740 I've had a lot of great conversations with my girlfriend, specifically just over the past,

00:15:06.580 I would say, two to three weeks.

00:15:07.700 And not all of them are comfortable conversations.

00:15:11.040 We talk about the future.

00:15:12.540 We talk about what we agree with and what we don't agree on.

00:15:15.620 And I don't, I always walk away feeling better about the relationship.

00:15:20.320 But I would, if she was here, I think she would say that she's willing to risk the relationship

00:15:26.460 as am I, in order to gain alignment and to make sure that we have the connection that

00:15:34.880 it feels like we do, because it's important to both of us, if we're thinking about what

00:15:39.920 takes place in the future, that there is some chemistry and there is alignment.

00:15:44.060 And the only way you find that out is by discussing and talking about it.

00:15:48.460 Yeah.

00:15:49.280 Yeah.

00:15:49.900 I like it.

00:15:50.560 All right.

00:15:51.120 Jeremy Kofi or coffee.

00:15:52.780 Is it, do you know, Jeremy's, how do you pronounce Jeremy?

00:15:54.600 I think it's coffee.

00:15:55.520 Sorry, Jeremy.

00:15:55.880 I think it's coffee.

00:15:57.400 Is it coffee?

00:15:59.200 What are some indicators you look for in determining a relationship is no longer serving the other

00:16:04.920 person?

00:16:05.860 Do you have advice on pulling back without burning bridges?

00:16:10.360 Wait, say the first part again.

00:16:13.780 Yeah.

00:16:14.380 So what are some indicators you look for to determining a relationship is no longer serving

00:16:19.420 either person?

00:16:21.400 Hmm.

00:16:22.080 Um, I think that generally it could be apathy.

00:16:27.860 If, if things start to become, or maybe indifference is maybe a better way to say that where the way

00:16:34.840 that you show up is not important or the way that the other person shows up feels unimportant.

00:16:41.480 That's a level of indifference that says that there's some real issues going on in the relationship.

00:16:47.140 I mean, if you guys are mad at each other, there's still a level of care because people

00:16:52.040 get mad at the people that they value their opinion and they value who they are.

00:16:57.040 You wouldn't be that mad if you weren't vested in whatever it is you're upset about.

00:17:01.860 It's when a person becomes indifferent to what's going on that, you know, the relationship is in

00:17:07.360 serious trouble.

00:17:08.000 Um, I would also say that the level of selfishness might increase.

00:17:13.720 You might be willing to sacrifice time with that person increasingly for your own pursuits

00:17:20.620 and desires.

00:17:21.140 And the other party starts taking your thoughts and ideas and considerations into, into mind

00:17:27.280 and starts to isolate or becomes more and more selfish.

00:17:32.260 And that might mean, it doesn't exclusively mean that, but it could mean that something's going on

00:17:37.900 with the relationship.

00:17:39.260 Um, I would also say any sort of changed behavior is an indicator because we all have personalities

00:17:46.780 and we all show up in certain ways.

00:17:49.220 And if you've been with a romantic, uh, relationship for a long period of time, 20 years, for example,

00:17:56.200 I mean, you already know, you know who that person is.

00:17:58.940 They know who you are.

00:17:59.760 If that behavior starts to change, like she starts to go out with her girlfriends all the

00:18:03.160 time and she never did that before.

00:18:05.500 Um, or she becomes indifferent, like I said, and she was always very, um, empathetic or she

00:18:12.440 gets closed off.

00:18:13.760 Maybe she doesn't ask for your opinion anymore, but she used to really be interested, invested

00:18:17.720 in what you had to say about factors of life.

00:18:21.180 Those are behavioral changes that really need to be addressed and considered.

00:18:26.200 As you guys move forward, what was the second part of the question though, Kip?

00:18:32.000 Um, do you have advice on pulling back without burning bridges?

00:18:37.020 Yeah, I think it would probably depend on the type of relationship.

00:18:41.320 I hope we're not just talking about romantic relationships here because I don't really

00:18:45.360 think, especially if you're committed to somebody and you made commitments and promises

00:18:49.380 that you just have the luxury of pulling back, so to speak.

00:18:52.880 Like, but if it's somebody like, yeah, unannounced pulling back, yeah, like, right.

00:18:59.640 Um, if it's a friend or an acquaintance, maybe that relationship is no longer, that's how,

00:19:04.060 that's what I envision it is.

00:19:05.300 Maybe it's a lifelong friend.

00:19:06.800 Maybe this person's toxic.

00:19:08.320 Um, maybe they're just not helping them in life anymore.

00:19:11.780 I don't, I really don't think you owe as much as maybe you think you do.

00:19:15.840 Um, if you feel like you need to have a conversation about it.

00:19:19.360 So Kip, if, um, you and I are really good friends, if for whatever reason, I didn't want

00:19:25.020 to maintain that friendship with you, depending on the severity of what went down between us,

00:19:30.000 I would probably, the more severe it was what went on between us, I would definitely be more

00:19:35.640 likely to communicate it with you.

00:19:36.880 So, Hey Kip, you know what, like, man, we've been friends for a long time, but the past

00:19:42.180 couple of months, you know, we've, we've butted heads.

00:19:45.460 Um, we had some issues that we fought over with our families.

00:19:48.960 And I want to tell you, I, I do appreciate you as a friend, but I need to step back for

00:19:54.740 these reasons and reevaluate how we're going to move forward because I'm not sure if I want

00:20:00.460 to, but I want to, I want to look at it from a different perspective.

00:20:03.060 I think I could probably say that if it was a severe incident, if it was just something

00:20:08.420 where maybe we weren't close friends, we were casual acquaintances and we hung out every

00:20:13.040 once in a while, I really wouldn't feel the need to explain my departure to you.

00:20:17.780 Um, I would gradually, uh, phase conversations out, phase communication out, um, phase family

00:20:26.700 functions and outings together out.

00:20:28.120 And I would just replace those with other relationships that I'm interested in developing.

00:20:31.760 And, and I think that can happen very organically, but I would say if there was something,

00:20:36.540 some critical event or something that happened, then I would be more, and especially if I'm

00:20:43.100 invested in that relationship, I'd be more likely to bring it up than just to ignore it

00:20:46.860 and walk away.

00:20:48.020 Yeah.

00:20:48.860 Yeah, for sure.

00:20:50.620 Um, Travis Gare, I'm trying to get back into the lives of my son, his mother of my son and

00:20:58.700 his mother, sorry, I've been on and off for 10 years.

00:21:01.740 I'm making changes to my life when we're working things out, but my issue is the patient

00:21:07.460 and acknowledgement.

00:21:08.800 I understand that there's been a lot of hurt caused with, with both of them and it's going

00:21:13.640 to take some time, but when things are going good, it doesn't seem like it makes a difference

00:21:19.080 to either of them.

00:21:20.280 Um, I know it does, but how do I get over needing that self gratification or the guests

00:21:27.200 selfishness of being acknowledged or doing good or making the changes?

00:21:31.040 How, how do I humble myself and put myself aside and just accept and enjoy the time that

00:21:37.160 I do have with him and understand that things will fall into place.

00:21:40.740 I just got to be consistent.

00:21:43.940 Yeah.

00:21:44.780 Well, you answered, I wrote down consistency as part of this, a romantic.

00:21:50.840 Yeah.

00:21:51.380 Sorry.

00:21:51.780 I want to clarify.

00:21:52.760 Do you think, uh, uh, getting back into a romantic relationship with the mom or just

00:21:59.460 like he's been absent from his kid's life and he's trying to be, um, more involved.

00:22:06.580 And because of that, he's, you know, obviously some level of relationship needs to be established

00:22:11.180 with the, with the mom.

00:22:13.340 I think it's that I think it's, I mean, after 10 years, I think he's trying to get on in

00:22:19.560 good graces with his son's mom so that he can have a better relationship with him.

00:22:25.360 Um, and if it is romantic, yeah, you know, I, I don't know that the answer really changes

00:22:30.560 all that much, but, uh, it doesn't sound like that to me.

00:22:34.520 It sounds like he's more interested in the relationship with his son than he is in the

00:22:38.640 relationship with his son's mom, his ex, Y, I don't know the exact situation.

00:22:44.420 Um, yeah.

00:22:46.160 So he answered it first by saying being consistent, that's number one.

00:22:49.720 And it would be really easy for me just to say, Hey, just focus on the journey and focus

00:22:54.460 on doing the right things and letting everything else fall where it may.

00:22:57.220 And that's true.

00:22:58.000 That is true.

00:22:59.080 But you already know that he's already talking about that, but how do you do that?

00:23:03.980 Um, one strategy that I've been using in my life, cause I do have a similar circumstance,

00:23:09.360 um, with, but with all of my children to different degrees and also with my ex is I don't like

00:23:19.080 this phrasing, but I think it'll help people understand the game of connection.

00:23:23.420 And I don't know why that resonates with me, but when I look at things as a game, not as

00:23:28.660 it's insignificant, that's not what I'm saying, or not as if this is just silly games and doesn't

00:23:34.220 really matter in the grand scheme of things it does.

00:23:36.940 So that's not the way I'm using the term game.

00:23:39.600 But when I talk about game, the reason that it lands with me is because there's rules to

00:23:45.420 the game and there's ways to be better at the game than you currently are.

00:23:50.000 And so I measure my performance in the game of connection based on how good I am at playing

00:23:59.980 the game, not the jet, not the overall outcome.

00:24:02.640 So here's a great way to look at this in the world of jujitsu.

00:24:08.800 When you, when, when guys start training at the same time, let's say there's five guys and

00:24:15.040 they start training on or about the same time, it's hard to know that you're getting better.

00:24:20.860 You don't, you don't actually think you're getting better because everybody's getting

00:24:24.700 better.

00:24:25.540 And so you're all elevating to roughly the same degree.

00:24:31.240 And so it's like, man, I keep getting beat by the same guys, or I keep beating the same

00:24:35.760 guys.

00:24:36.020 And I feel like I'm, but if you were to take that and give it an outside perspective,

00:24:40.080 you could see, oh wait, oh, I actually am getting better.

00:24:42.920 Cause now I'm training with new guys and I can see my progress in relation to how other

00:24:49.320 people train.

00:24:50.460 And it's the same thing with the relationship is you could be getting better, but not experience

00:24:57.160 the outcome that you desire.

00:24:58.540 So does that mean you're not doing the right thing?

00:25:00.860 Does that mean you're not improving?

00:25:02.940 No, I think it just takes a long time, especially when you're talking about 10 years of potential

00:25:09.340 alienation, 10 years of stories that your son may have heard 10 years of assumptions that

00:25:15.720 your son has made up in his mind about why you haven't been as present as either would

00:25:20.540 have, either of you would have liked.

00:25:22.320 And that's going to take a long time of consistency, but does that mean that you're not getting better

00:25:27.680 at it?

00:25:28.840 No, it just means it takes time and trust me, they see it, they acknowledge it.

00:25:33.120 And I bet, I'd be willing to bet that they're waiting for you to fail.

00:25:37.380 And I know that sounds pessimistic, but it's really important that we as men understand

00:25:41.820 that because when you, whenever you change your behavior and it's different than what

00:25:47.300 it's been and that what people know, they're naturally skeptical.

00:25:51.480 So it's easy for you as a dad to show up once a week and say, I've changed, I'm going

00:25:56.720 to be better.

00:25:57.240 And your kids are looking at you and saying, we'll see, I've heard this song before, we'll

00:26:04.200 see.

00:26:05.180 And so that's the first hurdle you need to overcome that, whoa, maybe dad actually is

00:26:09.760 changing.

00:26:10.680 And once you get through that, now it starts to get into the realm of building and developing

00:26:15.720 and connecting and all the other things that go along with reigniting the relationship.

00:26:21.680 But let me ask you this, if it never worked out the way that you wanted it to, would you

00:26:30.220 still do what you're doing now?

00:26:32.500 And if the answer is not yes, you've got a deeper problem.

00:26:37.820 If you never connected with your kid and his mom the way that you wanted to, and you feel

00:26:43.940 like, well, if I didn't connect with them, I wouldn't even do this, then I think there's

00:26:48.540 an integrity issue.

00:26:49.520 And I'm not saying that you feel this way, by the way, but I think there's an integrity

00:26:53.780 issue.

00:26:54.300 And I think you really add a question yourself, am I doing this because this is what a good

00:26:58.680 man and a good father does?

00:27:00.080 Or am I doing this because I'll be acknowledged and rewarded for it?

00:27:04.320 The latter is inferior motive from where I stand.

00:27:10.340 And it's inferior because it's fleeting, right?

00:27:13.960 If you need the confirmation constantly and the affirmations from them that you're worth it

00:27:19.080 and you're doing a great job or whatever, then what is it rooted in?

00:27:23.560 Validation, self-gratification, right?

00:27:26.660 Like there's a lot of power, I think, in this circumstance, getting really present to they

00:27:34.520 have choices.

00:27:35.320 And maybe one way to look at this is they may never, Travis, they may never decide to show

00:27:46.180 you gratitude for what you've done.

00:27:49.020 So are you going to still make sure that your kid knows that you love them?

00:27:55.620 Agnostic of that.

00:27:59.580 And if you can get to that, then you can deal with the hardship of it, right?

00:28:02.840 And then I think, look for the wins in the other areas, right?

00:28:05.600 Like, am I, okay, make a game out of it, right?

00:28:07.960 Did I make my weekly phone call?

00:28:09.440 Did I do these things?

00:28:10.260 Okay, I'm making progress.

00:28:11.620 I don't need the validation from them to know that I'm doing the right thing.

00:28:15.720 Because my objective is not that they'll appreciate and love me.

00:28:19.600 My objective is that they know that I love him.

00:28:22.420 And that's what ultimately matters.

00:28:26.940 I would also say, yeah, it is tough.

00:28:29.820 You know, and I'd also say celebrate the small wins.

00:28:32.460 You know, if your son calls you, that to me is a small little win. 0.99

00:28:37.520 Maybe he called and reached out to you.

00:28:39.640 Even if it was just to ask for permission to go hang out with his buddy, he called you.

00:28:44.440 So that's a win.

00:28:46.540 Maybe he shares a short, small, silly story about something that

00:28:52.400 happened at school.

00:28:54.280 That's a win.

00:28:55.400 As seemingly as insignificant as it is, he feels compelled to share something about his

00:29:00.340 life with you.

00:29:01.820 Or maybe you invite him to go play catch in the backyard.

00:29:07.400 And normally he just wants to watch TV or play video games or isolate.

00:29:12.500 But this time he comes out and he plays with you.

00:29:15.100 And it's only for five or 10 minutes.

00:29:17.260 That's a win.

00:29:18.980 Take those.

00:29:19.660 Use that as fuel to say, okay, maybe this is actually working.

00:29:23.800 And five minutes of baseball next week might turn into 10 minutes.

00:29:28.080 And the story about his buddy at school might now turn into the story about how he was getting

00:29:35.180 picked on at school.

00:29:36.060 And the fact that he called you might now turn into him initiating, I love you, dad.

00:29:47.540 You can build it up over time, but just celebrate those small wins, honor, acknowledge what they

00:29:52.940 are.

00:29:53.120 And then remember, your response, and this is what I have to remember, is that my response

00:29:59.120 to what is happening is a test.

00:30:03.740 And it might not be something that he is deliberately administering, but it's a test all the same.

00:30:08.920 And if I lose my cool when I'm being tested by one of my children in that way, it's less likely that they

00:30:19.000 will do that or what I'm looking for in the future.

00:30:22.300 So your job is to maintain composure.

00:30:24.860 Your job is to be emotionally regulated.

00:30:28.700 And your job is to show them that they're safe when they tell you things you do want to hear.

00:30:35.100 And also when they say things you don't, that they're safe, because then that gives them

00:30:40.180 permission to be more connected to you the next time around.

00:30:44.880 And I haven't always been that way.

00:30:46.320 And I still fall short on that.

00:30:48.000 But that's something that I'm personally working on with my children.

00:30:51.600 Got it.

00:30:52.460 All right.

00:30:53.040 Mr. Jenkins, Matthew Jenkins, how do you each manage your time so that you prioritize time

00:30:58.860 with your ladies and each of your children regularly?

00:31:02.200 Life seems to be so good at smothering out any time and consistency in that department for me.

00:31:09.040 So I need to be very intentional.

00:31:11.900 Yeah.

00:31:12.040 Well, first, just don't get bogged down and distracted with nonsense.

00:31:15.020 That is the first thing that you have to do.

00:31:17.280 It is amazing to me.

00:31:18.520 Like eliminate nonsense.

00:31:20.320 Yeah.

00:31:20.900 Absolutely.

00:31:21.380 Because that time should be spent.

00:31:24.020 Okay.

00:31:24.280 Let me give you an example.

00:31:25.820 If I get on my phone, my phone's over there on the stand.

00:31:28.900 If I get on my phone today and I start doom scrolling for the next 30 to 40 minutes,

00:31:34.640 I might convince myself that that's okay because I'm just taking a breather from work or whatever.

00:31:39.140 But I could take that 40 minutes and I could bust my butt at work so much so that I get more done than I ever have throughout the last couple of weeks.

00:31:48.720 And then what do you think that does when I get home?

00:31:51.880 It spills over into what I do when I get home because now I'm more present.

00:31:55.300 I'm more satisfied and proud of how I tackled my day.

00:32:00.320 So my attitude changes.

00:32:02.200 When I'm with my children, I'm not thinking about, oh, I forgot to send that email and I didn't have time to do this and this.

00:32:07.780 No, it's because I didn't waste any time.

00:32:09.420 So I know I was as productive as I possibly could have been.

00:32:11.780 And that's what allows me to be present in the moment.

00:32:15.420 And that's what's been helpful for me.

00:32:18.780 And when it comes time to spend with my children, it's whatever's important to them.

00:32:24.540 I bought this little Honda, 1980 Honda Express.

00:32:29.120 It's a little moped.

00:32:31.000 And my son, my youngest son loves to ride that around with me.

00:32:36.280 So this morning, I got up a little early before our Iron Council call, did a few things.

00:32:42.100 And then that way, as soon as I was done with my call, I could take him on a little ride around the neighborhood.

00:32:47.500 And it was 10 minutes.

00:32:50.020 And it was fine.

00:32:51.340 Last night, I had to go get some groceries.

00:32:54.940 And I kind of needed a little bit of a break.

00:33:00.000 And I think most men can feel this.

00:33:03.160 Like when you just need to get away for a second and just have a break from the kids.

00:33:09.000 And so I'm like, I just need like 10 minutes.

00:33:10.680 And then I come back and I'm good.

00:33:12.740 And I said, hey, bud, I'm going to run over to the grocery store and get the stuff.

00:33:15.340 And he's like, can I come with you?

00:33:16.980 And then I said no initially.

00:33:18.260 I was like, no, let me just run.

00:33:20.040 It'll be fast.

00:33:20.860 Let me just take care of it.

00:33:22.740 And then I started to turn around.

00:33:24.100 I'm like, no, he's not going to ask you much more to be doing stuff like that.

00:33:28.040 So you better say yes.

00:33:29.320 And I said, yeah, bud, grab your coat.

00:33:31.120 Let's go.

00:33:31.440 Let's go.

00:33:32.180 And I call that task stacking.

00:33:35.660 So I had to go to the grocery store.

00:33:38.720 But why shouldn't he be there with me when I do that?

00:33:42.120 Now I get my groceries done and I get time with my son.

00:33:47.360 When I get back, when I got back last night, my oldest was out hitting golf balls into a

00:33:52.660 new golf net that he had got.

00:33:54.700 And so I went out there and I hit golf balls with him.

00:33:58.420 My daughter likes to play soccer. 0.96

00:34:00.240 My, um, my other son, it seems like I've got a lot.

00:34:05.160 So my other son, uh, he's, he's into lacrosse right now.

00:34:09.220 He loves cars.

00:34:10.700 Um, he loves sneakers.

00:34:12.080 So we talk about those things.

00:34:14.000 I mean, there's, I don't, you don't have to give them all the time, but you do have to

00:34:19.240 give them undivided attention.

00:34:20.460 And then the other thing I do, Matt, and this one, guys, if you're not doing this, you need

00:34:24.840 to incorporate this into your life.

00:34:26.240 Every week, once a week, every Thursday at 1130, I take one of my children to lunch and

00:34:33.820 I just rotate through.

00:34:34.900 So that means I'm going to lunch just me and them once per month with, with my children

00:34:40.920 individual, individually, just with them and me.

00:34:42.980 And I let them choose.

00:34:44.120 And sometimes we go to subway.

00:34:45.860 I took my daughter to subway last week and we were there for 25 minutes and then I dropped

00:34:51.100 her back off and that, you know, we had the 25 minutes together, not a long time, but it

00:34:55.220 matters.

00:34:55.520 It makes a difference.

00:34:56.920 So yeah, I don't need, why would I take lunch by myself if I could take lunch with my kids

00:35:02.720 or other things?

00:35:04.320 So cut out the nonsense.

00:35:05.000 And then there's a few strategies that have worked for me.

00:35:07.700 Yeah.

00:35:08.160 I love it.

00:35:08.960 You know, one thing that comes to mind for me, Matt is just getting clear on the price.

00:35:13.160 You know, we kind of talked about this earlier, right?

00:35:15.120 Everyone wants, everyone wants this success, but they're not clear on the cost of it.

00:35:19.160 So what's the cost?

00:35:20.800 And there might be, you may have cut out the nonsense.

00:35:23.920 There may have not been any nonsense.

00:35:25.900 Maybe right now it's a bunch of relationships with non-family members because you're great

00:35:30.240 at networking and it's work and it's these other things.

00:35:34.500 What's the price that you're willing to pay to prioritize those other things?

00:35:41.140 And you might have to make a tough call.

00:35:43.460 There's a price for all things.

00:35:45.120 And so maybe it's buddy time, right?

00:35:47.340 Maybe it's hanging out with your, your pals needs to be diminished a little bit to reprioritize

00:35:53.880 other relationships.

00:35:55.400 But when we find ourselves really busy, especially guys that have already removed all the nonsense,

00:36:00.380 nonsense, get clear on the price that you're willing to pay and what you're willing to stop

00:36:05.540 doing.

00:36:05.960 Um, so then that way you can execute against it.

00:36:08.900 I think where we fail a lot, Ryan, a lot of guys is we just work harder or I'll just do

00:36:15.320 those things harder.

00:36:16.240 Well, you're being in realistic.

00:36:17.780 It's not going to work.

00:36:19.240 Right.

00:36:19.640 And so what are you willing to give up?

00:36:21.900 And I think there's, there's power in that clarity.

00:36:25.220 Well, I think also knowing that not everything and everyone deserves the same amount of attention

00:36:30.160 from you.

00:36:31.100 It's just the way it is.

00:36:32.500 And for somebody like Matt, that's going to be hard because he is such a social person

00:36:36.900 and he's a really caring person, but that's the reality of it.

00:36:40.580 You know, let me give you, let me give you an example of this in practice.

00:36:43.840 It actually happened to me last night.

00:36:45.800 So we've got a good friend, Jay Gerdulo, who, who's been on the podcast a couple of weeks

00:36:50.880 ago and Kip, you know him really well.

00:36:52.300 Well, he and his son are starting a podcast and I didn't like the name of his podcast.

00:36:58.140 I don't think it's conducive to what he's trying to accomplish.

00:37:01.520 So I told him that because I care about those guys.

00:37:04.580 And so I told Jay, I'm like, I don't, he needs to change the name of his podcast.

00:37:09.260 And I said, just have him get a hold of me.

00:37:11.220 I'm super curious what it is.

00:37:12.900 Yeah.

00:37:13.180 So I said, just have him get a hold of me.

00:37:15.400 So Jay had his son get a hold of me.

00:37:18.520 And, you know, initially I was like, okay, I'm going to jump on the phone.

00:37:22.200 And I'm going to have a conversation with him.

00:37:23.860 I'm like, I don't have time for that right now.

00:37:26.420 And I wish I did, but I don't.

00:37:28.320 And so I left him a voice memo and I said, Hey, here's something I want you to do.

00:37:33.500 Just, just do this exercise.

00:37:35.360 And the exercise was to identify who he wanted to serve.

00:37:40.900 And I said, when you, when you go through that exercise, then I, then I want you to message

00:37:46.440 me back and tell me who it is you're trying to serve.

00:37:48.760 Now I did this through a voice memo.

00:37:50.480 So I didn't even get on the phone with him yet.

00:37:51.980 And not that I don't want to, I just don't have the time.

00:37:55.620 So he sends me a message right back and he's like, mission accomplished.

00:38:00.620 Here's the person I'm trying to help.

00:38:02.060 I sent him another voice memo and I said, okay, now I want you to think about the three pain

00:38:06.620 points, the three greatest pain points, this individual, this ideal, ideal listener is

00:38:11.860 having and three solutions to that.

00:38:14.360 Just three, not five, not 10, just three.

00:38:16.660 And when you're done with that, let me know.

00:38:18.640 He messaged me back.

00:38:19.680 I haven't had a chance to get back with him yet.

00:38:21.440 But the reason I bring this up is because it's still a way for me to serve him because

00:38:27.020 I care about Jay and I care about his son.

00:38:29.080 They've been to events.

00:38:30.200 I want them to win, but I, I can only give so much.

00:38:34.640 Otherwise something else is going to break.

00:38:37.120 And if somebody doesn't understand that it's not my responsibility.

00:38:41.800 So I can't give him all the attention that I would like.

00:38:46.020 I can't give him the same amount of attention that I want to give to my children because

00:38:50.780 that's what time allows and permits.

00:38:53.500 So we can still be helpful and we can still do what we can, but we have to be smart about

00:38:58.300 it.

00:38:58.500 If, if another example, if I have a hundred men who listen to this podcast and they all

00:39:04.500 start having the same questions over and over again, then what I need to do is I need

00:39:08.900 to put together a podcast on that subject or a white paper on that subject, um, or a resource

00:39:14.780 or a guide or a book or something.

00:39:17.440 And then I just redirect them to that.

00:39:19.900 That way I'm helping them, which is what I want, but I'm not doing it at the expense of

00:39:25.840 all of my other commitments and responsibilities.

00:39:28.140 There's ways to leverage and you just need to be willing to explore what they are.

00:39:32.620 Yeah.

00:39:33.120 And most people understand that.

00:39:37.220 And here's the price.

00:39:38.540 If we don't do what you're saying, Ryan, is we will fail in a bunch of those relationships

00:39:43.840 instead.

00:39:44.960 We'll drop the ball constantly.

00:39:46.660 We'll be all over the place.

00:39:48.000 We'll be late everywhere.

00:39:49.100 And you'll, you'll generate more damage attempting to appease all of those relationships.

00:39:55.840 Then you would, if you were just clear and concise and established boundaries and communicated

00:40:00.600 to people, your proper priorities and what you're willing and not willing to do, they'll

00:40:04.380 respect you more and you'll probably do a better job in those relationships than trying

00:40:09.100 to juggle them all.

00:40:10.880 Yeah.

00:40:11.740 Yeah.

00:40:12.920 Cool.

00:40:13.440 What's next?

00:40:14.200 Yeah.

00:40:15.340 Um, uh, Christopher Jackson.

00:40:18.280 Actually, no, no.

00:40:19.180 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:20.320 I'm handpicking some ones because of these are really good.

00:40:23.460 Christopher Jackson, since I've been working on my masculinity and my wife is stuck in

00:40:29.400 hers, it seems like it's adding gas to the fire.

00:40:33.620 How take back, how do I take back the masculine energy in the relationship and let her be in 0.86

00:40:38.640 her feminine?

00:40:40.060 I mean, I love this question.

00:40:42.040 It's a great question.

00:40:43.880 Um, and I, and I already think I know what's happening here and I could be wrong.

00:40:48.260 You correct me if you think I'm wrong, Kip.

00:40:49.840 But he says, since I've been working on my masculinity.

00:40:53.520 So what that leads me to believe is that for a period of time, potentially a long period

00:40:58.160 of time, he was not stepping into his masculinity.

00:41:01.480 And because he didn't step into his masculinity, his wife had to do it. 1.00

00:41:06.060 So now his wife is required to be the woman of the house. 0.99

00:41:10.220 And now she's also required to be the man of the house.

00:41:13.220 So she's leading, she's directing, she's controlling, she's dictating. 0.97

00:41:17.500 And I'm not saying this is bad by any means.

00:41:19.200 She's getting shit done because you weren't. 0.99

00:41:22.720 And so she's making decisions and she's organizing everything.

00:41:25.720 And she's the one who's signing the kids up for the teams.

00:41:28.320 And she's the one planning out meals.

00:41:30.980 And she's the one figuring out everything about the vacations.

00:41:34.680 And I know this because I actually used to do this the same way where my ex-wife was required

00:41:42.000 to make all of the decisions, do all of the things, as long as it didn't have anything

00:41:45.740 to do with work.

00:41:47.080 And so your wife is likely stepping into her masculinity because you weren't. 1.00

00:41:52.480 So now that you're stepping into your masculinity, she's like, what the hell?

00:41:58.520 I've been doing this for 10 years.

00:42:00.740 Swooping in and coaching her.

00:42:01.960 And now you think that you can do it better than me?

00:42:05.920 I've been doing this for a decade.

00:42:07.980 You can't do this better than me.

00:42:09.640 And I know that because you haven't been.

00:42:11.480 And I'm not trying to be harsh in my assumptions here, but I've seen this so many times.

00:42:17.640 So part of what's going to need to happen here is you're going to need to confess.

00:42:22.700 And what I mean is you're going to need to go to her.

00:42:24.780 Maybe you've already done this and you have to say this.

00:42:27.500 Hey, hon, I know for the past five years that I have been absent as the man of the house.

00:42:35.120 And I know that I've failed to lead properly.

00:42:37.660 I don't make decisions.

00:42:40.100 I leave you guessing.

00:42:41.820 I don't communicate clearly with you.

00:42:44.300 I have not casted any vision for what we want for the family and for our kids and for our future.

00:42:51.460 And I imagine that you probably feel pretty lonely.

00:42:56.700 And you probably feel like you're not only having to be the woman, but you're also having to be the man.

00:43:01.100 And I know that what I'm about to tell you, you might have reservations with because of the way that I've showed up.

00:43:09.220 But I want you to know starting today, I am going to be the man that you need me to be.

00:43:16.480 And here's what I see that looking like.

00:43:18.900 And then you tell her, I'm going to make decisions.

00:43:20.580 I'm going to include you.

00:43:21.580 I'm going to offer resources.

00:43:24.040 I'm going to be emotionally regulated for you.

00:43:27.000 And then here's the key.

00:43:29.500 What would you like to see from me?

00:43:33.800 And you get her feedback.

00:43:35.940 And she might not give you much because she doesn't believe you.

00:43:39.840 And that might be justified.

00:43:41.300 Why should she believe you?

00:43:43.240 You know, I hear this all the time when guys are like, I'm going to start this business, but my wife's not on board. 0.94

00:43:46.940 Yeah, because you've said, I'm going to start a business two dozen times and all you do is spend the family's money and then lose it all and then get excited about the next bright, shiny object two weeks later.

00:43:59.400 So, yeah, pardon me if she's a little skeptical about it.

00:44:04.480 So you communicate this with her and then you let her tell you what she needs to tell you.

00:44:09.500 It might be a little.

00:44:11.060 She might dump it all on you. 0.99

00:44:12.460 I don't know.

00:44:13.500 But your response is what matters.

00:44:15.660 And if she says, you know what?

00:44:17.780 Yeah, you know what?

00:44:18.520 You haven't been present, Christopher.

00:44:20.340 You haven't done these things.

00:44:21.780 You haven't showed up this way.

00:44:23.560 You say, you know what?

00:44:25.040 That's fair.

00:44:25.780 That's fair critique.

00:44:26.940 I accept that.

00:44:28.540 And I'm going to do something about that.

00:44:30.240 And then you go to work on doing what you say you're going to do.

00:44:35.240 But I think a conversation needs to take place if it hasn't already.

00:44:38.620 And a little bit of understanding that, yeah, why would she relinquish leadership to somebody who can't lead?

00:44:49.000 Has proven not to be able to lead the family.

00:44:51.840 Why would she do that? 1.00

00:44:53.600 That's threatening.

00:44:54.500 That's risky.

00:44:55.160 That's scary.

00:44:55.840 And probably based on what you're saying, a little justified.

00:44:59.700 And I'm not trying to be harsh.

00:45:01.120 I'm just trying to give you the reality of it.

00:45:02.640 But yeah, I think it's sound.

00:45:07.760 Eric Tyler, what inner work should a man do before he can truly show up well in a relationship?

00:45:14.180 Inner work a man should do. 0.99

00:45:16.920 Figure out why you're angry.

00:45:20.580 That's what triggers you.

00:45:22.820 Yeah, I mean, Kip, what would you say is, let me think about how to word this.

00:45:30.000 What would you say is the biggest character flaw that men have generally, just generally, broadly?

00:45:40.360 Not being expressed.

00:45:43.040 Because I think there's always going to be triggers, right?

00:45:45.680 Like none of us are going to come untainted into relationships.

00:45:51.040 We're going to have stuff that we picked up our entire life, weird nuances, things that make us upset, all kinds of stuff.

00:46:00.080 I think the flaw is not so much in those things.

00:46:03.480 The flaw is in the unwillingness that when the upset occurs, being expressed around what it was and being aware of it.

00:46:15.660 And maybe say it that way.

00:46:17.660 The willingness to express it, but the willingness to understand it well enough that we express it correctly.

00:46:23.220 Because that's the other problem, right?

00:46:25.340 In the early days of my life, I would have communicated my upset, but my upset, Ryan, was you're the problem.

00:46:33.280 You're making me feel a certain way.

00:46:35.140 And so I wasn't even self-aware enough to understand it was my creation.

00:46:41.360 So I think the self-awareness of the trigger and then the willingness to express it in a way so our significant other can understand it.

00:46:50.720 I think that's the biggest flaw.

00:46:53.160 Yeah, I think I would agree with a lot of that.

00:46:58.960 I mean, I agree with everything you're saying.

00:47:00.560 I don't know if it's the, I think it's kind of in conjunction with what I, what, what I believe.

00:47:05.080 What do you think?

00:47:05.900 I think it's just men are angry.

00:47:09.820 I do.

00:47:10.900 I think we're angry and I don't, and I don't, I don't know.

00:47:16.160 I don't know where it comes from for anybody specifically who might be listening to the podcast.

00:47:21.920 But I think that we need to figure out reasons why we're angry.

00:47:25.640 So let me give you an example.

00:47:27.480 Last night, the boys had taken that little moped out and it was raining.

00:47:34.940 And it leaks a little gas right now until I fix that.

00:47:38.320 That's one thing I need to fix on it.

00:47:39.640 So it's leaking a little gas.

00:47:41.200 And my son put it on the grass.

00:47:44.740 When he got done, he just wielded onto the, it was on the gravel, but he wielded over onto the grass when he was done.

00:47:51.280 And I literally felt my blood start to boil.

00:47:55.600 Like I felt my blood pressure go up.

00:47:59.880 And, you know, I was, I think I was doing the dishes or something.

00:48:02.460 And I, you know, slam the fork on the counter.

00:48:06.200 And I'm like, and in the 10 steps between the kitchen sink and where it goes in the living room, like, what are you doing?

00:48:14.880 Relax.

00:48:16.040 Just relax.

00:48:18.340 So I did.

00:48:20.160 And I said, hey, bud, when you're done with the bike, where do you think you ought to put it?

00:48:24.160 And he's like, I'm in the gravel.

00:48:25.560 I said, yeah, in the gravel where you found it.

00:48:27.320 And he's like, yeah, I did.

00:48:28.740 I'm like, no, you put it in the grass.

00:48:29.840 He's like, oh, I'm sorry.

00:48:30.680 I thought I put it in the gravel.

00:48:31.700 I must have just been distracted.

00:48:33.540 It's not that big a deal.

00:48:35.500 It's really not.

00:48:37.560 But I could feel myself getting agitated.

00:48:41.560 Why?

00:48:42.080 Why?

00:48:42.580 Why are we angry?

00:48:44.540 What is making us so angry?

00:48:46.640 Yeah.

00:48:46.680 Is it a feeling of disrespect?

00:48:49.900 Is it a feeling of overwhelm with all that we have to do throughout the day?

00:48:54.460 Is it a feeling of not being appreciated?

00:48:58.760 Or what I'm saying is the inner work that a man needs to do is get to the root of his anger, his impatience, his frustration, his agitation.

00:49:09.300 And ask to, now this goes back to what you said, and I agree, is how do we express those things properly?

00:49:16.440 Because it's okay to be angry sometimes.

00:49:19.620 Anger is not the problem.

00:49:21.400 Our response to it could be.

00:49:23.720 So if I'm angry because one of the kids doesn't put something back where it belongs, that should bother me.

00:49:30.160 If it does, and I go punch the wall, I think all of us would say that's an improper expression of anger.

00:49:37.580 But if I say, hey, guys, look, we have a lot of nice things.

00:49:41.260 We're blessed with a lot.

00:49:42.420 We're fortunate to have these things.

00:49:44.180 And so we need to take care of them.

00:49:45.640 And we need to put them where they go.

00:49:46.920 And we need to keep our house nice and orderly and neat and have things in the right places so we can have the, enjoy the things that we have for a longer period of time.

00:49:54.280 Everybody on board with that?

00:49:55.980 Yep.

00:49:57.080 Good.

00:49:57.400 I just express that in a positive way.

00:50:00.620 Or if, you know, my girlfriend says something and we do have interesting conversations.

00:50:07.080 We both think on a level very similarly, but we don't always agree on everything, which makes it fun and frustrating at times for both of us, I'm sure.

00:50:20.240 But if I yell at her and shut her down, how's that going to help the relationship?

00:50:26.920 If, on the other hand, I say, you know, I don't agree with that and here's what I believe and here's why, but I can see where you're coming from.

00:50:34.300 We can have disagreements.

00:50:36.480 It's the same feeling.

00:50:38.380 It's just a different way to respond to it.

00:50:40.620 And I think once we can do that inner work where we're not just immediately agitated because we don't get our way, that's when you really have the power to be inside of relationships that could potentially benefit you.

00:50:53.900 I will also say this.

00:50:56.080 I don't think you can fully do this on your own.

00:50:59.880 The people that we love the most will trigger us the hardest.

00:51:04.900 And that's one of the best things about a relationship.

00:51:08.840 Always.

00:51:09.440 Is with my kids, they know exactly how to trigger me.

00:51:15.320 And I don't think they're always doing it on purpose.

00:51:17.020 Sometimes, yes.

00:51:17.700 But I don't think always.

00:51:19.420 But you know what?

00:51:20.160 Those little humans, even in their triggering, are really, really good for me because it helps me regulate.

00:51:27.160 It helps me deal with triggers.

00:51:28.580 My girlfriend can trigger if she says certain things, and I'm sure I can trigger if I say certain things to her, but that's good.

00:51:34.900 That's an important component of a relationship because she's making me evaluate the way I show up, and I hope I'm doing the same for her.

00:51:45.180 That's how people grow together.

00:51:47.400 So I don't think that you should just isolate and go wall yourself off in some lake cabin and stay away from humans altogether until you have this all figured out.

00:51:57.300 I think interactions with humans that you care about will actually help you address this if you do it intentionally.

00:52:03.940 Although going up to the mountains and getting lost in the woods actually sounds pretty good right now.

00:52:11.920 I'm sure every man listening to this podcast right now has had that thought at one point of, you know, maybe I should just pack up my bag and just, you know, go up into the woods and call it.

00:52:21.420 Have you ever seen, have you ever seen those memes that are on like Facebook or Instagram?

00:52:25.300 And it's like, it has, it's a question and it's this cabin and it's in the woods and it's secluded.

00:52:31.020 And it's like, if you, if I could give you a million dollars, but you had to live here for 30 days with no power and no people, what would you do?

00:52:40.720 I'm like, maybe I would do that for free, let alone for a million dollars.

00:52:45.240 It just proves you that the people who made that meme was a girl, was a female and not a male.

00:52:53.280 Cause every male reads that and go, that's a stupid question.

00:52:58.520 Oh my God.

00:52:59.800 Oh man.

00:53:00.520 One more, one more question is, are you good with one more?

00:53:02.960 Just really quick.

00:53:04.160 One more question.

00:53:05.100 Then I got a funny story that I was going to share with you.

00:53:07.280 So let's do that.

00:53:08.380 Okay.

00:53:08.900 All right.

00:53:09.220 We'll make this one quick.

00:53:10.140 And this is actually perfect, right?

00:53:12.160 Because this is in the spirit of don't just disconnect, right?

00:53:16.600 I mean, obviously we can talk about, um, Kirk, right.

00:53:20.760 And his assassination a couple of weeks ago, right.

00:53:23.080 What was he willing to just stop having conversation?

00:53:28.060 Right.

00:53:28.540 Or, or, or, or really was his mission around continuing dialogue, right.

00:53:33.660 And discourse when people disagreed and, and J's, uh, James Grayson's question is this.

00:53:38.860 We are all really divided in this country along party lines and spirituality.

00:53:43.720 It's gotten to a point where I, I just don't talk about it with certain people or don't

00:53:49.240 talk, uh, to them at all because they shut down the conversation.

00:53:53.200 How can we improve relationships with family and friends who hold different beliefs about

00:53:57.700 God and politics when they are openly rude and disrespectful towards people of conservative

00:54:03.360 Christian faith?

00:54:04.380 If they're, if they're just rude and disrespectful broadly and generally, like who it's not your

00:54:11.200 job to be the savior of the world, like let them be whatever they're going to be.

00:54:15.320 But if they're doing that in your presence to your wife or your children or you, then not

00:54:23.940 only is it appropriate, it's a requirement that you say something.

00:54:27.760 So if you were saying something Kip in front of my family, my kids, like whoever might 0.73

00:54:32.740 be, I would say, Hey Kip, I, and I would do this privately first, but I would say, Hey

00:54:39.740 Kip, you know, I'm raising my kids a certain way.

00:54:43.760 And I really want them to understand that even though people disagree, we can do it civilly

00:54:48.780 and respectfully.

00:54:49.360 But what you said earlier tonight to my children is not acceptable.

00:54:54.360 So please do not talk to them like that, or please do not talk to me like that or whatever.

00:54:58.420 And that's the boundary Kip. 0.71

00:54:59.700 We're friends.

00:55:00.260 We're good after this.

00:55:02.760 We're, we're clear.

00:55:03.860 No, no, no issue, but I would be, I would really appreciate it if you didn't bring those

00:55:10.500 conversations up and have those types of conversations with my children.

00:55:15.020 Now, if you can respect that, we can still be friends.

00:55:19.060 If you can't respect that you're out because there's boundaries and your job as a man is

00:55:24.760 to do that.

00:55:25.300 And you know what?

00:55:25.760 If I did that respectfully, I think people would find it respect.

00:55:31.500 I think they'd have more respect for you.

00:55:34.340 I think they'd say, you know what, man, I don't agree with that, but man, Ryan, he stands

00:55:38.000 firm by what he believes.

00:55:39.980 Appreciate that.

00:55:40.620 And, and, and I would also say to you, Kip, I'd say, Hey, if you want to have a knock

00:55:45.080 down, drag down fight about it, I'll do that with you.

00:55:47.640 And you and me can do that one-to-one, but we don't do it in this environment, but Hey,

00:55:51.600 let's go to lunch Tuesday.

00:55:52.480 And you and I will hash it all out.

00:55:55.080 I'm good with that.

00:55:55.840 But here is how it's going to be handled.

00:56:00.440 Now, if they keep doing it or they're not respectful of your boundaries, those are people

00:56:06.240 that should not be in your life.

00:56:07.660 And I think I have, I have people in my life who I don't have certain conversations with

00:56:13.660 because it just, it's not conducive to my own mental sanity.

00:56:21.980 And in those moments, the only thing I can do is confuse them.

00:56:27.440 And let me help you understand what I mean by that.

00:56:29.480 When people make up a narrative about party lines, spiritual beliefs, tribalism, as we'd

00:56:37.040 call it, they assume that you're going to behave a certain way.

00:56:41.820 You know, for, for example, somebody who's a liberal might make the assumption that conservatives

00:56:49.600 are ruthless or heartless.

00:56:52.540 I think that's safe to say that that is a general assumption that could be made about

00:56:57.120 conservatives.

00:56:58.700 But here's the, here's where you confuse people is when you show up with kindness and empathy

00:57:06.220 and love towards your children and respect towards them and other people that you don't agree

00:57:12.320 with.

00:57:12.660 And you show up in a powerful way.

00:57:15.220 It's like a short circuit in their brain.

00:57:17.560 Like, how can this be?

00:57:19.560 Here's this conservative.

00:57:20.840 I don't, you don't seem like one of them on anything, but he seems like a good dad.

00:57:27.600 He seems like a good husband.

00:57:30.720 He seems like he actually cares about people and it short circuits their brain, which is what

00:57:36.880 you want because it gets them to question that maybe our dogmatic tribalist beliefs about

00:57:44.220 people aren't always a hundred percent accurate.

00:57:47.200 So in those cases, you could be a really good example of what a conservative Christian looks

00:57:53.720 like and what it actually means to be a follower of Christ, not cowardly or passive or weak, but

00:58:00.360 strong and bold and courageous, but also loving towards other people.

00:58:05.380 Even if you don't love their choices or lifestyle guys, really good questions today.

00:58:09.860 I think we might have a few more to address and maybe we'll get to those next week, but

00:58:13.920 I'm digging the idea of doing the ask me things as topics.

00:58:17.540 So we've done a topic on financial planning.

00:58:21.460 We've done one on daily tracking and goal setting and performance throughout the week.

00:58:27.320 And then of course, this week we talked about developing and building better relationships.

00:58:31.240 So we're going to keep with a topical theme.

00:58:33.660 I'll let you know what it is next week.

00:58:35.040 Keep asking those questions.

00:58:36.640 In the meantime, if you want to dive deeper into these conversations and you want to be

00:58:40.340 around like-minded men who are all holding each other accountable, who are pressing in

00:58:46.140 the realm of fitness, the realm of finances and faith and family and every aspect of our

00:58:51.880 lives, join the Iron Council.

00:58:53.360 We're open for enrollment and you can go to orderofman.com slash Iron Council to watch

00:58:58.580 a short video, learn more about what we're doing and become a member of this brotherhood.

00:59:04.420 I want to hear the story.

00:59:05.740 I want to hear the story.

00:59:06.820 Oh, that's right.

00:59:07.880 So, okay.

00:59:08.520 The story is wild.

00:59:09.600 So, um, last weekend, uh, my girlfriend and I decided we were going to go zip lining and,

00:59:17.780 uh, her sister and her brother-in-law wanted to do it.

00:59:22.240 In fact, it was their idea.

00:59:23.160 And so we were going to go do it.

00:59:24.540 The four of us, we're going to go do it together.

00:59:26.460 So we got this locked in about a month ago and last weekend it was, it was the date.

00:59:30.800 So we go to, I think it's called Deer Creek, uh, state park or something in, in Midway.

00:59:37.100 Do you know, you know where this is?

00:59:38.900 Yeah.

00:59:39.160 Um, I know where Midway is, but yeah.

00:59:42.140 So we go up there and there's this big zip line thing and there's, I don't know, there's

00:59:45.700 like a dozen or 15 zip lines that you just work through a course.

00:59:50.740 And I'm really excited about zip lining.

00:59:52.980 And so we're all having a good time.

00:59:55.640 We're zip lining.

00:59:56.600 We probably do like seven or eight different zip lines and we're working through the course

01:00:00.900 and we come to the, the long one, like the, the, the pinnacle, the climax of the zip lining

01:00:07.420 experience and it's long and it goes over the lake.

01:00:13.140 So it starts at this, like the highest point of the mountain.

01:00:15.620 It goes over this lake.

01:00:17.080 It's really cool.

01:00:18.960 And so they have two, two lines on this one.

01:00:23.140 So two people can go at the same time, one next to the other.

01:00:26.360 And, and my girlfriend's like, well, I'm going to go on this one.

01:00:28.560 I'm like, cool.

01:00:28.940 I'll go on this one.

01:00:29.480 I'll race you.

01:00:30.900 And she's like, yeah, okay.

01:00:32.640 You're definitely going to win.

01:00:33.640 Cause you're just bigger than I am.

01:00:35.160 And I said, I'll give you a, I'll give you a headstart.

01:00:38.220 So the lady gets her locked in. 1.00

01:00:40.380 The lady gets me locked in and counts us down. 1.00

01:00:44.440 She gets a two to three second headstart and she's going, and then it's my turn.

01:00:48.700 And I go and I'm not catching up to her.

01:00:51.520 In fact, I'm going pretty slow down this thing, slower than I thought.

01:00:55.180 And she's just gaining distance more and more distance.

01:00:57.800 And I look up, I kid you not.

01:01:01.620 The, the clip thing on the, on the cable is smoking and sparking.

01:01:09.020 And I'm on yours.

01:01:13.680 So she, I'm watching her and she is just screaming down this. 0.96

01:01:19.900 She gets to the end and I get right in the middle of the thing and it stops.

01:01:24.860 I'm 150 feet in the air over the lake and they, we did a little training.

01:01:33.600 And so when, when you, uh, when it's, if it stops short, you're supposed to turn around

01:01:40.580 and pull yourself to the platform.

01:01:42.760 Well, I'm probably 300 yards from the platform or more and I'm trying to pull myself, but the

01:01:50.440 thing is locked.

01:01:51.860 I can't pull myself.

01:01:54.700 Like it is locked up and I am not going anywhere and I'm dangling over the lake.

01:02:01.200 And I look down and there's, there's a couple of guys fishing and they're looking up at me

01:02:04.680 like, what the hell is this guy doing?

01:02:05.980 And I'm dangling, trying to pull myself.

01:02:07.840 I can't get anywhere.

01:02:09.000 I'm like, what, like, what is happening?

01:02:13.100 So I'm there for like 20 minutes dangling over the lake at 150 feet on this zip line.

01:02:19.440 I thought I'm going to die on this zip line.

01:02:24.620 And then finally I see a worker, a woman, and she comes out, she like wheels herself out 1.00

01:02:30.320 to me.

01:02:30.680 She's like, how are you doing?

01:02:31.580 I'm like, not good.

01:02:33.260 This is not awesome.

01:02:34.860 And she's like, okay, we're going to get you taken care of here.

01:02:40.000 And she brought all of her equipment out and she switched me over to another clip or

01:02:46.100 whatever.

01:02:46.880 It like, she's like rescuing me in the middle of this thing.

01:02:52.360 And she's like, how good are you at pull-ups?

01:02:54.380 I need you to pull up so I can unclip you and put you on this one.

01:02:56.820 And we're dangling off this cable.

01:02:59.120 Don't let go.

01:02:59.700 I'm like, I'm like, I don't know.

01:03:02.440 We'll find out.

01:03:03.400 And she's like, okay.

01:03:04.260 And so I, she's like three, two, one.

01:03:06.040 And I pull myself up and I'm, you know, holding on for dear life.

01:03:09.100 And she unclips it and clips it on the other one.

01:03:11.000 And we get back to the thing and I'm like, oh my gosh, that was horrible.

01:03:15.860 And you know, my girlfriend was laughing at first, but then she knew that this was like,

01:03:20.080 this was serious.

01:03:21.180 So we get back and I'm like, what is happening?

01:03:24.560 I said, that thing is broken.

01:03:25.860 It seized up.

01:03:27.040 And she's like, no, I looked at it when I was up there.

01:03:30.680 The woman at the top of the platform put the carabiners, they reversed the carabiners. 0.99

01:03:36.480 So the one that was load bearing, she put it as the safety one and the safety one, she put

01:03:40.680 it as load bearing.

01:03:41.400 And I was grinding, it was grinding on the cable and she showed me the carabiner and it

01:03:49.160 had burned like an indent halfway through the carabiner.

01:03:52.980 So if that would have went a little bit more, that one would have gave way.

01:03:56.280 And I would have been on that safety one, bro.

01:03:59.020 I almost died zip lining and I, and a little embarrassing and, and, and her and I laugh

01:04:04.860 about this because I was rescued this weekend by a woman and that was ironic and funny and

01:04:12.340 emasculating at the same time.

01:04:15.640 Yeah.

01:04:16.200 And, and humbling dude that.

01:04:18.200 And in 20 minutes, that's no joke.

01:04:20.260 Like one minute doing that would seem forever.

01:04:23.400 20.

01:04:24.020 You're like, I'm going to just die here.

01:04:26.880 Yeah.

01:04:27.480 I thought I was going to die.

01:04:28.720 I was like, if I fall into this water, cause I was over the water.

01:04:31.440 I'm like at 150 feet, 150 feet.

01:04:34.860 Dead.

01:04:35.700 I'm dead.

01:04:36.780 Like I'm not, if I, if this thing goes, I am not surviving this.

01:04:40.120 So good thing you guys didn't see me on the news.

01:04:42.560 Some random guy, you know, plummets to his death, just trying to have a good weekend with

01:04:48.540 the people he cares about.

01:04:50.900 Oh my gosh.

01:04:53.000 That's wild.

01:04:54.380 That's super wild.

01:04:56.440 So anyways, guys, you know, hold, hold your loved ones close.

01:05:01.060 Cause you never know when it's your time to go.

01:05:03.640 We'll just say it that way.

01:05:04.680 And, and hopefully, yeah, hopefully you go fighting a bear or I don't know, something

01:05:11.280 way cooler than falling off a zip line in the middle of the lake.

01:05:17.540 Yeah.

01:05:19.860 All right, guys.

01:05:20.840 Awesome.

01:05:21.320 Well, you already closed this out, Ryan.

01:05:22.820 We good.

01:05:23.400 We did.

01:05:24.160 Yeah.

01:05:24.400 Great questions, guys.

01:05:25.360 Again, um, keep them coming.

01:05:27.260 Look at the iron council and then, uh, we'll be back next week until then go out there,

01:05:31.620 take action and become the man you are meant to be.

01:05:38.500 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:05:41.340 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:05:45.160 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

01:05:48.620 We'll be right back.

01:05:49.380 Bye.

01:05:49.420 Bye.

Order of Man - October 01, 2025

Multi-Dimensionality, People-Pleasing, and Stepping Into Masculinity ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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