Order of Man

00:00:00.000 I'm babysitting my kids is likely something a lot of you fathers have used as an excuse or a reason not to do something else.

00:00:08.120 I know that I certainly have used that term, but we don't really babysit our children, do we?

00:00:14.540 Babysitting our kids implies that they aren't our inherent responsibility, and that obviously is not the case.

00:00:21.560 My guest today, Nate Feathers, makes the case against, quote-unquote, babysitting our children,

00:00:25.300 and instead shows fathers a better way to approach the relationship between father and son or daughter.

00:00:31.260 Today, we talk about kids mimicking our behavior, the changes in culture with regards to fatherhood,

00:00:36.800 how to bond effectively with newborns and toddlers and teens, learning to let go of your children,

00:00:42.260 how to keep the relationship and also your sex life with your wife thriving,

00:00:46.340 and why it's not accurate to assume that you're ever babysitting your children.

00:00:52.040 Enjoy this one, guys.

00:00:52.720 You're a man of action.

00:00:53.940 You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:58.680 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:01:03.020 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:01:08.020 This is your life.

00:01:09.140 This is who you are.

00:01:10.540 This is who you will become.

00:01:12.220 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:17.360 Gentlemen, what is going on today?

00:01:18.780 My name is Ryan Mickler.

00:01:19.820 I'm your host and the founder of the Order of Man podcast and movement.

00:01:23.160 Welcome here today and welcome back.

00:01:25.720 I'm really excited to get this one to you guys.

00:01:27.480 I've been following Nate for a long time, and the conversation was really good.

00:01:31.140 It was like two friends catching up, and I think you're going to hear that.

00:01:34.140 I think you're going to enjoy it, and hopefully you walk away with some valuable information

00:01:37.540 that will help you become a better father, which is one of our goals, to help you become

00:01:41.260 a better father, husband, business owner, community leader, just a man in general.

00:01:46.020 And if you're new, you need to know that we're doing this podcast.

00:01:49.320 We've got events.

00:01:50.660 We've got our digital brotherhood, the mastermind, if you will, called Iron Council.

00:01:54.920 We've got merchandise.

00:01:56.340 We've got resources, and we've got everything, everything that you need to improve your life

00:02:01.520 in any measurable capacity.

00:02:03.740 So I'm glad you're here and tuning in.

00:02:06.300 Before we get into it, just want to mention to you that the store or the Order of Man merchandise

00:02:10.860 is open on a limited basis and limited run.

00:02:14.560 We closed it down for a couple of months.

00:02:16.560 We're opening it back up.

00:02:17.840 Battle planners are in there.

00:02:19.380 You can get at orderofman.com slash TWBP.

00:02:22.560 Orderofman.com slash TWBP is in 12-week battle plan.

00:02:26.700 We've got the original green shirts, which are a best-selling shirt.

00:02:30.040 And then we've got new shirts and things like that coming in over the next week or two.

00:02:33.180 So you can check it all out at store at orderofman.com.

00:02:36.780 In the meantime, let me introduce you to my guest.

00:02:39.840 His name is Nate Feathers.

00:02:41.340 Some of you may know him as Dads Don't Babysit on Instagram.

00:02:45.060 I've personally, I've been a long-term, excuse me, a long time.

00:02:48.540 There we go.

00:02:48.980 A long-time follower of Nate.

00:02:51.540 And his message has certainly helped me to become a better father.

00:02:55.860 And I think that they'll help you too.

00:02:58.360 Nate is a father of five, ranging from moving out of the house and off to college to going

00:03:02.720 to, or excuse me, to a toddler still in diapers and has nearly two decades of experience in

00:03:08.740 raising children to be powerful, contributing members of society.

00:03:12.720 I think you're going to hear a lot about his philosophy and how antiquated models of fatherhood

00:03:17.560 do not serve us or our children well.

00:03:21.320 He's obviously very knowledgeable.

00:03:23.880 He's very well-researched, very well-thought-out.

00:03:26.940 He spent a lot of time thinking about these topics and delivering these topics as it relates

00:03:31.260 to fatherhood.

00:03:31.980 And I think it's going to be a powerful one for you guys.

00:03:34.500 Enjoy.

00:03:36.340 Hey, what's up, man?

00:03:37.380 I know we've been trying to work this for the last couple of days.

00:03:39.600 We had some technical difficulties last week, but bro, it's good to see you.

00:03:43.660 Yeah, you too, man.

00:03:45.100 I've been a long-time fan.

00:03:47.140 I've been lurking in the shadows on, on the, uh, on the gram.

00:03:50.440 And I think what initially intrigued me was your handle where it said, dads don't babysit.

00:03:56.100 I'm like, shit, I've said that a lot.

00:04:00.020 So tell me, tell me a little bit about how that came to be the idea of dads don't babysit.

00:04:04.700 Yeah, actually, um, I was on a call with a friend of mine who had just had a baby.

00:04:10.400 And at this point, I think I was, I might've been three deep with kids.

00:04:14.640 I might've had four at that point.

00:04:15.920 I can't remember, but I was on a, I was on a call with him and he was doing something.

00:04:19.440 He was like, Hey man, uh, if you hear the little one, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm babysitting

00:04:23.820 right now.

00:04:24.300 So I wanted to let you know, like you, you might hear a little, and I was like, Hey man, we're

00:04:27.580 going to stop right there.

00:04:28.460 Uh, dads don't babysit dude.

00:04:30.340 Like you're, you're being a dad.

00:04:31.680 So if I hear him cool, like, and it was one of those things where after that, I was kind

00:04:37.040 of like, that's totally true.

00:04:38.480 It was either that handle was either, it was either dads don't babysit or my kids cuss

00:04:42.400 cause I do.

00:04:43.120 And that's way too long.

00:04:44.060 So I like that too.

00:04:47.000 It's funny because sometimes, especially with my oldest, I'll be debating with him or maybe

00:04:52.100 even like trying to correct him or, you know, lead him in the right direction.

00:04:55.920 And he'll say something like, damn it.

00:04:58.300 That's what I would have said.

00:04:59.160 And it, it's, it's amazing how much they pay attention to the way that we show up, the

00:05:07.720 things that we do, both the good things, but also the bad things too.

00:05:11.380 They pick that stuff up, maybe even more.

00:05:13.140 So the bad things, it seems like, right.

00:05:14.860 That's literally what I was going to say.

00:05:15.920 Like, why does it feel like I say one, like, I'm like, Hey man, do this.

00:05:19.060 Or I say these things that are so great.

00:05:20.800 And then I say, like, I say one F bomb.

00:05:22.960 And then that's the word I hear from my three-year-old.

00:05:24.980 I'm like, ah, yeah.

00:05:26.320 Yeah.

00:05:28.540 Yeah.

00:05:28.960 Are there things that you personally, I mean, look, here's the thing is like, I've, I've,

00:05:34.580 I've had some of my own personal struggles over the past several months.

00:05:36.840 And, um, I think it's easy when we're on Instagram for, for our, for us to prop ourselves up.

00:05:42.640 Like we show the highlight reel.

00:05:44.580 And then I think it's easy for people to assume that we feel like we know everything, even

00:05:49.560 though we know internally, we don't, but are there some things that you personally struggle

00:05:54.060 with fatherhood that you see as being pretty common with a lot of guys that they deal with

00:05:59.860 as well?

00:06:00.240 Yeah, actually that's kind of been what started all this.

00:06:03.680 And the truth is like, I, I find myself, what I ended up doing when I start to feel

00:06:07.320 like I'm struggling is I start to back off.

00:06:09.080 So like, like people who follow me may say, they'd be like, where's Nate been?

00:06:12.940 He hasn't been on.

00:06:13.800 And that's probably cause I'm going through something where I'm just like, I don't have

00:06:16.580 any, I don't have anything to say right now because I feel like anything I would say

00:06:20.340 would feel like a complete and utter fraud.

00:06:22.380 Um, but that's where, like, that's, that's kind of where all this came from.

00:06:26.280 I grew up in a traditional house.

00:06:28.120 My dad was a pastor.

00:06:29.620 Um, and I actually kind of followed in those footsteps for a while, but, uh, through that

00:06:34.920 I went through like, I mean, lots of things like spare the rod, spoil the child is a proverb

00:06:38.980 that I've heard before.

00:06:40.260 Like kids should be seen and not heard.

00:06:42.920 Spanking was normal.

00:06:43.940 That does not mean that like we were beaten or anything like that or anything.

00:06:48.120 Sure.

00:06:48.380 Yeah.

00:06:48.720 Yeah.

00:06:49.080 I would never say it was that way.

00:06:50.540 Um, but it's one of those things where I grew up in that.

00:06:53.360 And then as I had, when I had my first kid, uh, my oldest is now 19.

00:06:58.880 And when I had him, like, I just kind of like fell right into that norm.

00:07:03.360 Uh, but when I took him to college last year, it like punched me in the face that I didn't

00:07:09.400 have, I, I still have influence with him, but not the way I used to.

00:07:13.280 I don't have him all the time.

00:07:14.620 He's not a rent.

00:07:15.180 Like, and I, I sat on my front porch and was like, wow, like this is the end of an age.

00:07:20.740 And now what am I going to do?

00:07:22.760 And I realized there was a lot of like regretting going on inside me.

00:07:26.380 Like, man, I could have done that so much better.

00:07:27.900 And so I started basically going, what, like, what can I do differently with the youngers

00:07:34.220 that I screwed up with the older ones?

00:07:36.740 And, um, and that's really been how the journey started.

00:07:39.720 But I will say that the moment I started doing that and started talking about it, I got,

00:07:44.820 I get pushback and you, I can almost always tell who's a, without even looking, if I just

00:07:49.820 see the handle and it doesn't say like, you know, Dave Smith kind of thing, if it's just

00:07:53.400 some handle, I can be like, that's a guy.

00:07:55.660 I don't even have to look because there's so many guys that they bang against this concept

00:08:00.800 of actually, it's not that they're banging against kindness.

00:08:03.980 I think they're worried that we're going to raise sons that are weak.

00:08:07.020 Cause that's what I, I mean, I've been called a snowflake and, and things like that.

00:08:10.420 And I'm going, this is hilarious that that's what we're saying to someone who is literally

00:08:15.500 just trying to tell you, let's, let's be kind to our children and try something new.

00:08:20.220 And that's really what, what happened for me is I was just like, I'm going to do it

00:08:22.560 a different way.

00:08:23.660 And, you know, you think about a pendulum, you swing it one way and it swings all the way

00:08:26.980 back to the side.

00:08:27.740 So I've, I've slowly tried to, I've tried to slow that pendulum.

00:08:32.460 So I'm not like completely permissive.

00:08:35.280 Um, but at the same time, I've also tried to go, all right, why is this my hangup?

00:08:40.280 Or is this something I, is this a hill I need to die on?

00:08:43.820 Or is this something I can, I can just, you know, there, I was the dad who always said

00:08:48.340 no, always like, I mean, my poor oldest, I've literally apologized to him because I've been

00:08:53.260 like, I mean, I apologize a lot.

00:08:55.120 Like I tell people all the time, your number one thing is one, relax.

00:08:58.420 And two, just get ready to humble yourself and apologize pretty much all the time.

00:09:03.020 Because I don't, like you said, I don't know everything.

00:09:05.900 Um, and, and what I was doing when I was a younger father is I was like, well, I have

00:09:11.540 to, I know everything is I'm right all the time.

00:09:13.540 And that's just not true.

00:09:15.240 So I started apologizing to him and, and, and trying to just change how I was doing, but

00:09:20.400 I've, I've tried to slow that pendulum swing to just be able to go, all right, you know,

00:09:24.280 how do I, how do I bring it back to a centered place where I can still be like, we're still

00:09:30.380 firm.

00:09:30.820 We're still, we still have rules, but man, I don't have to, like, I could probably relax

00:09:35.680 a lot.

00:09:36.180 Like that's the number one, relax.

00:09:38.840 Isn't it interesting that we equate kindness with being feminine?

00:09:43.020 I, I, yeah, look, I've been there and I've been the authoritarian and I've been the disciplinarian

00:09:48.420 and it just, it didn't work.

00:09:50.960 Like I was miserable.

00:09:52.080 My kids were miserable.

00:09:53.500 My, my ex-wife was miserable.

00:09:56.140 Yeah.

00:09:56.620 Like, I don't want to be like this, but I think you can still be disciplined.

00:10:00.700 You can still be that, that, that stable leadership figure.

00:10:05.900 I think kindness, and I don't, I don't like to say it this way, but I'll say it this way

00:10:10.900 for the sake of argument.

00:10:11.800 Kindness can be used as a strategy or a tactic, if you will.

00:10:15.260 That's a little cold, but for developing and fostering influence and credibility with

00:10:21.480 your, with your family.

00:10:23.060 Absolutely.

00:10:23.900 Absolutely.

00:10:24.300 I mean, seriously, if you want kind kids, you're going to have to be kind because I

00:10:29.280 can hear them interacting and they talk like me.

00:10:32.240 So they'll use my tone.

00:10:33.820 They may not understand tone in their context just yet, but the younger ones, I'll hear

00:10:38.260 them and I'm like, Oh, that sounds so bad.

00:10:40.120 Like it's so bad to hear sometimes them talk like me.

00:10:43.960 And I'm like, I look at my wife and I'll be like, do I sound like that?

00:10:46.560 She's like, he's like, yeah, just, yeah, exactly.

00:10:50.220 But you know, it's funny is that you said it, but it's totally true.

00:10:54.080 It's like kindness as a, like, even as a tactic, but understanding if I'm kind to my

00:10:58.000 children.

00:10:58.320 Um, I actually spoke to this a long while back about microchimerism, which is basically

00:11:03.940 like the cells of the baby, like T cells from the baby.

00:11:06.500 When the mother is, when it's growing inside of his mom, they go out and like, they'll

00:11:11.260 heal.

00:11:11.560 Like if mama gets hurt or there's something going on, like they'll go out and they'll

00:11:14.580 heal, but those stay.

00:11:15.640 And so I saw this, I saw this, uh, study where they found, they found cells from the

00:11:22.460 baby in mama's brain and they're all over her body.

00:11:26.240 And so I just kind of made mention to my wife at one point and it kind of became a thing,

00:11:29.840 but I was like, it's crazy.

00:11:31.280 When I, when I interact with my kids in a way that grates on her, like, or that like

00:11:37.060 feels like I'm not kind of that, it, it changes my relationship with her.

00:11:41.260 Right.

00:11:41.760 She responds as if I'm doing it to her.

00:11:44.220 And, uh, so, I mean, how I handle, how I handle my relationship with my kids full

00:11:50.220 on affects my wife, whether, whether it's because of those cells or just because I'm

00:11:54.320 being a jerk and she's watching me be a jerk to her kids, you know, you're fully

00:11:58.100 affecting them.

00:11:58.960 You're, you're inciting the mama bear, you know?

00:12:01.560 Well, that's her nature, right?

00:12:02.700 Her nature is to ensure that her kids are taken care of.

00:12:05.220 Even when she has kids, it's even more so than her relationship with you.

00:12:09.140 And again, the way I'm saying it might sound a little cold, but you, you become

00:12:14.200 almost in a way, this is maybe a little archaic or outdated, but let's just take

00:12:19.060 it from, from a biological standpoint.

00:12:21.660 You almost become a means solely a means of providing for her and her children.

00:12:27.700 And again, I know that's not the entire picture, but if you're not doing that, then

00:12:32.920 she's turned off by that.

00:12:34.260 Of course.

00:12:35.460 Absolutely.

00:12:36.340 Absolutely.

00:12:36.880 And yeah.

00:12:37.180 And I, I agree with you.

00:12:38.160 Like there's so many nuances in there.

00:12:39.860 Of course.

00:12:40.260 Yeah.

00:12:40.420 Like if you're just speaking to it, like trying to speak directly to it.

00:12:43.320 Yeah, absolutely.

00:12:44.540 I don't want to say you take a back seat, but there's things in things in mama change.

00:12:48.640 And, and my dad actually put it this way.

00:12:51.220 He said, you bring home two strangers.

00:12:52.780 Um, you bring home a woman.

00:12:55.400 You don't know who that is anymore because she doesn't know who she is now as a mom and

00:12:59.440 you bring home a baby.

00:13:00.340 So there's a whole bunch of new learning happening, you know?

00:13:03.040 So.

00:13:04.020 That's it.

00:13:04.280 I'm writing that down.

00:13:05.000 Bringing home two strangers.

00:13:06.520 That's really interesting.

00:13:08.180 Your dad said that.

00:13:09.080 That's cool.

00:13:09.600 Yeah.

00:13:09.740 My dad told me that.

00:13:11.340 Um, help me clarify what you're talking about the cells.

00:13:14.000 Cause I didn't quite grasp that.

00:13:15.060 So you're saying in this findings or whatever it was that when, so the way I understood it is

00:13:19.960 that when a baby is maybe nursing or connected with mama bear, like those cells from the baby

00:13:24.740 are actually consumed or inhaled or whatever it may be through the mother.

00:13:29.600 Is that what you're, maybe I misunderstood.

00:13:31.700 No, that's fine.

00:13:32.120 It's actually in utero.

00:13:33.460 So when the baby is still growing in mama, um, in order to, in order to protect itself,

00:13:37.920 and I'm not a doctor, but I just was reading studies on this and was blown away by this.

00:13:41.760 The, the, the, the term for it is microchimerism.

00:13:45.040 Um, but the babies, like the T cells from the baby as it's growing will like go,

00:13:49.940 out into mama's body and help her body heal or help things go along to keep itself safe.

00:13:58.220 But they have found like decades later, they've found those cells in mama, like, like all over

00:14:05.600 her body.

00:14:05.980 But what the ones that caught me were the ones in her brain.

00:14:08.360 And that was, obviously it was, it had to be post-mortem that they did this, but they're

00:14:11.680 like, this is a, what they, the reason they found them is because they found male DNA in,

00:14:16.480 in a, in a mama.

00:14:17.960 And they're like, Oh my gosh, this is, and that's how that kind of like went, they went

00:14:21.400 down that DNA from, from her biological son is what you're saying for biological sons.

00:14:25.680 Yeah.

00:14:26.020 And so they even say, yeah, I've heard it said that even like if, if the pregnancy doesn't

00:14:30.940 go full term or they lose the baby, um, they may still have those cells in, in their body

00:14:35.780 as well.

00:14:36.140 It's kind of crazy.

00:14:36.760 So not only obviously is the, is the mother protecting the baby, but in a way the baby

00:14:41.480 is also protecting the mother through the healing process of those T cells.

00:14:45.320 Exactly.

00:14:45.880 And then it was what makes like, again, I grew up in the church.

00:14:49.240 So I come from this whole concept of like, like God as in the Christian form of God.

00:14:53.880 And I go, well, that for me, I go, that makes sense.

00:14:57.360 Cause he's, we've had to create a way from, for, for the mother to change how she interacts

00:15:03.240 with the world and instead of just being interacting with like the world as her own self, she now

00:15:08.920 becomes this mama bear who at all costs, she protects the kids.

00:15:12.640 And I mean, there's a, there's a cool connection there that, that dads don't get, but we, we

00:15:19.380 can foster a relationship with them, but we don't get that kind of, we don't get that kind

00:15:23.260 of cellular connection, which is really neat.

00:15:25.720 Yeah, that is, that is interesting.

00:15:27.140 So look, I'm going to, I'm going to disclose a lot of things that aren't redeeming qualities

00:15:31.480 about myself in this conversation, but I've had, I think a lot of men feel this way.

00:15:37.680 So let's just address it for what it is and speak the truth and be honest about it.

00:15:40.920 And, um, so I, I, I remember often telling my ex-wife that, you know, it's, I remember

00:15:49.120 when she said, do you want to have more?

00:15:50.320 And I said, if you can have them at like three or four, definitely.

00:15:55.240 And, uh, you know, I was, I was teasing, but also like, that's not a bad idea.

00:15:59.260 Uh, and the reason was, is because I think around that age where children, sons, daughters

00:16:05.600 start to walk, they start to talk, they start to engage, you, you can play with them.

00:16:10.160 They're a little more dynamic.

00:16:11.160 They're, they're a little bit more responsive to you is really probably the time where I

00:16:15.840 think the father comes into the equation as, as a real influential connected figure.

00:16:22.180 But before that, it seems like, you know, baby's got a nurse with mom.

00:16:27.940 Um, like all the baby cares about at that point is making sure that it's, you know, stays alive,

00:16:33.080 not obviously consciously, but biologically.

00:16:36.320 Right.

00:16:36.720 So there's not really a deep connection.

00:16:38.880 I mean, it didn't grow in our body contrary to, you know, popular belief that men can get

00:16:43.900 pregnant and all this stuff.

00:16:44.740 It's a whole other conversation.

00:16:45.860 Um, there's just not a lot of connection there.

00:16:50.460 Do you, like, what are your thoughts about that?

00:16:52.640 So I, here's what I'll say.

00:16:54.280 I think we feel that, but when they're like, so I would say that from our perspective, absolutely,

00:17:00.680 because we're interacting, they're starting to talk.

00:17:02.820 And so you can like interact with them a lot more and you, we feel it.

00:17:06.780 However, uh, from like birth babies connect, like they bond through like physical touch.

00:17:14.480 Uh, I spent a lot of time.

00:17:15.960 So we had our last two at home.

00:17:18.000 Uh, so I caught my youngest boy and then obviously it was part of like holding onto and keeping

00:17:24.840 like, I mean, I'm, I carry them around all the time when they're little, little like that.

00:17:28.220 And all I want them to do is hear, I want them to hear my voice.

00:17:31.380 I want them to, you know, I have a deeper, I have a deeper voice obviously than my wife.

00:17:35.360 So I want them to feel that vibration.

00:17:36.800 So I keep them close to my chest.

00:17:38.360 Uh, when you do skin to skin, there's a lot of stuff that goes on there for mamas that

00:17:43.180 dads can participate in.

00:17:44.560 All you gotta do, I mean, just take your shirt off, put the kid against you, like wrap a

00:17:48.340 blanket over you and, and just let them sleep on you.

00:17:51.260 I mean, the best kind of, some of the best times as a parent, as a dad, I'm like, shoot,

00:17:55.600 uh, oh, it's time for the baby to sleep.

00:17:57.100 I'll hold him.

00:17:57.660 Like, let me hold him.

00:17:58.500 Let me fall asleep with him.

00:17:59.600 You know, like I'm being a, I'm being a hardcore dad while I sleep.

00:18:03.940 It's awesome.

00:18:04.300 Um, but they killed two birds with one stone.

00:18:07.120 That's right.

00:18:07.940 So you get the, they get your smell, they get your voice, like all of those things that

00:18:11.760 we don't, we don't really feel or recognize, but it's, it's creating a bond with that kid

00:18:16.980 that, that actually, in my opinion, goes pretty far.

00:18:20.420 When I was, when I was in college, my, uh, one of my professors, we were talking about

00:18:25.780 intercultural studies and he always said, when you go to another country, the best move,

00:18:29.380 if you're going to be there for a while, I was talking about missionary work was to be

00:18:32.180 picked up by nationals, because when you come to a new place, uh, and you don't know

00:18:36.640 anything and you, it's a whole new experience.

00:18:38.640 The first person that will take you in is you kind of latch onto them and they're your,

00:18:43.800 they're your people.

00:18:44.640 And so you hold on.

00:18:45.620 And he always suggested, if you're trying to learn the language and you're trying to do

00:18:48.120 all that, you should do that with the nationals because you will become more attached to the

00:18:52.000 nationals than you would if you met with, then if missionaries picked you up from the

00:18:54.880 airport or whatever.

00:18:55.720 And, uh, he, he called it bonding in that sense.

00:18:59.060 And, and then he always referenced it to babies.

00:19:01.240 Cause when you think baby comes into a whole new experience, it's had this nice warm home

00:19:05.020 inside of mama.

00:19:06.340 And when, when he or she's born now, it's a whole new experience.

00:19:10.160 It's gone through a traumatic experience really when it's went through the birthing process.

00:19:14.460 And so it's going to bond with, he's going to bond with whoever is going to hold them and

00:19:20.060 keep him safe.

00:19:20.820 So dad actually gets to be a part of that.

00:19:22.940 If, if you're willing to take ahold of him, just walk around with him.

00:19:26.100 I mean, I take midnight shifts constantly with the babies and just hum.

00:19:29.840 It's so crazy.

00:19:30.620 Cause, uh, the song I always hum is from, uh, the Hobbit.

00:19:35.080 It's the, it's like real deep.

00:19:37.680 And so I would hum that until, you know, it's so funny now because my youngest is almost

00:19:41.860 three.

00:19:42.360 And if she's all frustrated and mad, I know she's tired and I pick her up and I start humming

00:19:46.620 that she now fights me.

00:19:48.480 Cause she's like, I don't want to sleep.

00:19:49.660 You know, that kind of thing.

00:19:50.380 Cause she knows, that's funny.

00:19:53.840 I usually sing my kids like, so people laugh if they've ever heard me sing or whatever,

00:19:58.440 and maybe they're over or friends over and they hear me sing to my kids.

00:20:01.080 And I always sing one of, uh, one of a couple songs is a handful, but the ones that stand

00:20:07.120 out are the national anthem.

00:20:08.320 I sing that often to my kids.

00:20:09.820 And for whatever reason I sing, I love singing Gilligan's Island to the kids and my daughter

00:20:17.080 and I have like little hand movements for Gilligan's Island.

00:20:19.820 And we always have a good time.

00:20:21.360 That's fun.

00:20:22.020 Your kids are probably the only ones at their age that even know that's that TV show at

00:20:25.980 all.

00:20:26.200 Right.

00:20:26.480 I'm sure of it.

00:20:27.360 I'm sure of it.

00:20:28.260 Yeah.

00:20:28.400 The song.

00:20:29.760 So there's a couple of things and I look, I want to get a little deep into this and maybe

00:20:33.080 even subjects that might feel taboo or whatever.

00:20:35.880 So a couple that I wrote down as you were talking, number one, um, I think there's a

00:20:39.800 little bit of maybe, maybe a stigma, a little bit, or a little awkwardness or weirdness of

00:20:45.040 the skin to skin thing, especially between, um, man and a baby.

00:20:48.860 And it's, it's interesting that we have that weirdness.

00:20:51.680 At least, at least I did.

00:20:52.920 Uh, it was a little awkward at first, but it's interesting because if you think about

00:20:57.020 as we grow older, man, I bought a couple of different mats there.

00:21:00.300 I can see them right here outside of my office here.

00:21:02.460 Um, but bottom off Amazon and I love to wrestle with my kids, you know, and obviously they're

00:21:08.480 learning a skill.

00:21:09.160 They're learning, they're getting strong, but also there's the physical connection.

00:21:12.780 I, I truly believe there's a transfer of energy between the way that I'm, when I'm wrestling

00:21:17.780 with them and if I, you know, grab their arm, um, or, you know, I'm squeezing one of them

00:21:22.960 or whatever it might be, there's actual, uh, a connection that's, that's like a tangible,

00:21:27.760 real measurable connection there.

00:21:29.700 Have you, have you talked to many guys who feel weird at all about the skin to skin thing?

00:21:35.680 Or is there, is there an awkwardness about it that you've experienced or seen?

00:21:39.600 Um, I haven't come across too many that are like weird, like they're weirded out by it.

00:21:44.140 That's, um, it's one of those things where I think because they're so like, they're so

00:21:47.440 tiny, it's kind of like you, I don't know if I don't know about like other guys, but

00:21:50.580 I'm like, I just want to snuggle this tiny little thing.

00:21:52.280 Like get in here and let's, you know, just bring them close.

00:21:55.360 So I haven't really talked to many guys that are like, yeah, no, I don't think I can

00:21:58.100 do that a lot of dads.

00:21:59.340 And I will say my first, my first little, I didn't know that our, we were born with

00:22:03.580 two fears, right?

00:22:04.340 The fear of falling and the fear of loud noises.

00:22:06.280 I didn't know that.

00:22:07.480 So like, I picked my little guy up and I'm like, Oh, it's a baby.

00:22:09.720 I, you know, play with him.

00:22:10.820 And I like tossed him a little bit and dude, I thought I broke him.

00:22:15.040 He like put his arms straight out and he's like, like freaked out.

00:22:18.440 And I'm like, what'd I do?

00:22:19.600 Like, did I break him?

00:22:20.460 Like what's going on?

00:22:21.060 Um, so I learned real fast.

00:22:23.100 Don't do that.

00:22:23.740 But, um, but I didn't know we had those two fears.

00:22:26.380 And so as soon as I did that, he felt that drop and he was like not having it.

00:22:31.240 Um, but as dads, I mean, we have a, we have a card, a Christmas card with my, uh, my third

00:22:38.540 born, uh, Finley.

00:22:40.220 And he's probably three, maybe two.

00:22:42.860 And yeah, I think he's three.

00:22:44.460 I, I launched him in the air for this, for like, we were playing around and the camera,

00:22:48.680 the girl who's the photographer, like snapped the photo.

00:22:51.460 He's literally looking at the photo, at the camera and everybody else is watching him.

00:22:56.180 And I've got him about like 10 feet up in the air away from us.

00:23:00.540 It looks like he's suspended in air.

00:23:02.360 It's hilarious, but that's, I mean, it's kind of like what you're saying, wrestling and doing

00:23:06.240 that.

00:23:06.380 It actually is good for cognitive development for specifically for boys.

00:23:10.760 It helps them like, it helps them understand like boundaries and get out aggression and understand

00:23:16.940 interacting.

00:23:17.980 So like, as far as like the skin to skin thing, I haven't had a lot of people like tell me,

00:23:22.140 oh, that's kind of weird, but it's funny how dads, how we want to interact with our

00:23:26.940 boys and how it's actually beneficial to them that we do it that way.

00:23:31.140 So I always say, I've said to my wife plenty of times, Hey, you be mom, I'll be dad.

00:23:35.440 She'll be, you know, upset about how I'm doing something.

00:23:37.540 And it's not a bad thing.

00:23:38.520 And she's just like, why are you so rough with them?

00:23:39.960 Or why are you this?

00:23:40.680 Or why?

00:23:40.900 And I'm like, that's because I'm dad.

00:23:42.280 Like you be mom and I'll be dad and we're going to do things differently.

00:23:46.120 And, um, one of those things is I'm, I'm, I'm not saying mothers don't rough house with

00:23:50.340 their kids that, or that they can't, but a lot of times that's where dad comes rolling

00:23:54.500 in.

00:23:54.740 And we, we do that.

00:23:55.720 And it's actually really good for specifically for boys to do that for the cognitive development,

00:23:59.940 which is pretty cool.

00:24:00.920 I was thinking about that.

00:24:01.860 I was, I I've heard Jordan Peterson talk a bit about that, about the, the, the, the idea

00:24:06.120 of rough house and rough play.

00:24:07.380 Um, I was actually thinking about that as I was rolling around on these mats with my

00:24:10.720 son.

00:24:11.140 Um, he did something, I can't remember if he punched me in the nuts or, you know, something

00:24:15.220 right.

00:24:16.060 And I was like, Hey, like, we don't do that, you know?

00:24:19.560 And, and I said, look, if you're in a street fight and you're, you're in danger, like do

00:24:23.220 whatever you got to do.

00:24:23.940 Like you can bite their nuts if you have to, if that's the option to have, like do whatever

00:24:27.200 you need to do.

00:24:28.080 But like here when we're playing, like, these are the rules.

00:24:31.480 And as I was thinking about that, I was like, Oh no, this is good for him because he learns

00:24:34.540 boundaries, uh, he, he learns how to honor and respect boundaries.

00:24:38.420 He learns how to listen.

00:24:41.060 Um, he learns how to cooperate in, in a set of voluntary constraints or, or rules.

00:24:47.620 This is all really good stuff for his development.

00:24:50.380 So yeah, that's, that wrestling is powerful.

00:24:53.040 All right.

00:24:53.460 So another one, and this one's a little bit, look, guys know this and they talk about it

00:24:57.460 and nobody else talks about it.

00:24:58.920 You said something, you said, uh, that I think it was your third or fourth that you delivered,

00:25:04.300 right?

00:25:04.500 You caught that baby.

00:25:05.540 Yeah.

00:25:05.880 Yeah.

00:25:06.080 I caught him.

00:25:06.840 Yeah.

00:25:07.100 So, um, a lot of guys are going to talk about, you know, ruining their sex life.

00:25:10.880 Right.

00:25:11.280 You hear that a lot.

00:25:12.000 It's like, and I did, I was like, stay like, stay North of, of the waste, you know?

00:25:18.160 And by the time I had my third or fourth, I was like, no, this is awesome.

00:25:21.940 Um, and it didn't seem to affect my sex life.

00:25:25.320 Like I was still attracted to my wife and that wasn't an issue, but I know this is an issue

00:25:29.800 for a lot of guys.

00:25:30.580 Like, I'm curious about your perspective and your thoughts on that.

00:25:33.300 Yeah.

00:25:33.860 Yeah.

00:25:34.380 I'm going to sound harsh.

00:25:35.500 Cause when it comes to stuff like that, I'm like, come on guys, like seriously, like

00:25:39.120 let's, let's man up.

00:25:40.220 Like, and I don't, I don't mean that to be mean.

00:25:42.840 I mean, if, if it really freaks you out, I don't know, I don't know what you can do with

00:25:45.720 that, but like, usually I would say, listen, he's probably, it's going to be, it's amazing.

00:25:51.080 Like the whole birthing process is insane.

00:25:54.420 My wife is superhuman.

00:25:56.020 Right.

00:25:56.400 And I tell, I'm like, that's your, like, she's, she's awesome.

00:26:00.200 We're very, if you're going to call it a traditional style couple, that's us.

00:26:04.080 Like, she's like, she's like my superhuman power is that I, I grow children and make them

00:26:08.820 and then have babies.

00:26:10.940 And then I can feed them with my body.

00:26:12.520 Like, like, so we're on the same level there and that's wonderful.

00:26:16.000 But like, your wife is superhuman.

00:26:18.740 They, they can, they can give birth to another human.

00:26:23.700 Like for me, that's amazing.

00:26:25.140 So I just, I mean, like when it came down to that, the, the midwife was like, you want

00:26:30.700 to catch that?

00:26:31.260 And I'm like, yeah, let's do this.

00:26:32.640 And I mean, just, I just kind of, what I would say is, uh, guys that fear that have

00:26:38.380 never, haven't like gone through that yet.

00:26:41.220 If you go through it, you'd probably, you'd probably turn on kind of like you said at

00:26:44.000 the third or fourth, you're like, this is crazy.

00:26:46.020 It's not going to ruin my second life.

00:26:47.520 And I don't think it will.

00:26:48.620 I think that most guys would come back around and be like, just see themselves, see their

00:26:53.040 wife as even more amazing.

00:26:55.920 And it makes you fall in love with her more.

00:26:57.740 I think, uh, at least that's what it does for me.

00:27:00.460 You know, I like that.

00:27:02.000 That's, that's interesting.

00:27:02.900 I mean, I wrote that down here.

00:27:04.160 I'm taking notes as we go, but you're talking about honoring your wife.

00:27:06.940 And I think there's this idea in culture and it seems to get progressively worse, especially

00:27:11.520 with the degenerate society in which we live is like, you don't care about your woman.

00:27:15.060 You know, you care about her as a, and I've heard the term, you know, a masturbatory tool

00:27:18.960 rather than, rather than, you know, the, the, the, the mother of your children or this soul

00:27:25.680 that you can grow and develop and, and learn from who can, I wouldn't say complete, but who

00:27:32.340 can compliment and add to your life in a way that you're just not able to do on your

00:27:36.000 own.

00:27:36.760 Yeah.

00:27:37.400 It's, it's, there's so much respect that you can, you can find in all that she is.

00:27:43.960 And that's part of it.

00:27:44.880 I mean, I remember having, I remember a friend and I were talking like, like this goes like

00:27:50.160 outside of giving birth, but like, even, even conversations, like one of my friends was

00:27:54.400 like, Oh man, I'll never be able to see, like, if she has her period, she needs to be

00:27:56.880 like, you know, away and hidden.

00:27:58.360 And I'm like, dude, that is now as a, as a father of five and, and where I am in my

00:28:03.460 relationship, I'm like, come on, man.

00:28:05.040 Like, like we can mature from there and know that at, at, you know, 18, 19, Oh gross.

00:28:10.380 That's horrible.

00:28:10.800 But the truth is that's what makes her able to like bring humans into this world.

00:28:16.420 And that is amazing.

00:28:18.360 And I'm not saying you got to be like all around it all the time, but you know, so many

00:28:23.000 guys are like, I'm not going to the store and buy tampons and all that.

00:28:25.600 I mean, you know what, that's going to be, that's a, that's a badge of honor for me.

00:28:28.580 Like I'll put them up there.

00:28:29.600 I don't care.

00:28:30.420 Like, there's no shame in my game.

00:28:32.600 If she needs something, I'm going to get it.

00:28:34.140 Like, I'm totally okay with that.

00:28:35.620 And, you know, it's, I think that that's the more we find how, the more we find our, like

00:28:41.580 find the respect in our wives and the more, or our partners, and the more we can

00:28:45.300 see the, like a beauty of who they are and like what they are, the, I mean, the better

00:28:51.820 our life becomes.

00:28:52.660 I said it a while back to my wife.

00:28:54.280 I'm like, you, you take everything I give and you make it better.

00:28:56.620 You know, if I bring home a paycheck and you, you make it work and you know, I, I, we

00:29:01.680 get this house and you make it a home.

00:29:03.240 I, I, we, uh, for lack of a better word, like I bring sperm and you make a human.

00:29:10.820 That's so amazing.

00:29:12.340 I know it takes both, but like everything I give her, and I heard a guy say that I cannot

00:29:17.180 remember who it was, but he said, basically everything you give a woman, she can multiply

00:29:21.780 and make even more.

00:29:23.160 And that's so cool because you know, you've gone to bachelor pads or when you were a bachelor,

00:29:27.760 like there's nothing on the walls.

00:29:29.320 I mean, I don't have 40 throw pillows on my bed unless I'm married.

00:29:32.920 Right.

00:29:33.260 Cause that's just not how it goes.

00:29:34.860 But when you walk into a room that you're like a woman did that for sure, because no guy

00:29:39.340 that I know would do that, I'd have two pillows and maybe a sheet and you know, there'd be

00:29:43.800 nothing on the walls.

00:29:44.560 And it would look like somebody was a, you know, like I had a go bag and then just bailed

00:29:48.380 out of my house.

00:29:49.840 Well, I look, I've even been told, cause I told you my, my ex-wife and I are in the process

00:29:53.980 of a divorce.

00:29:54.520 And so we have a great relationship actually in, in making sure that we raise our kids.

00:29:58.340 And I, and I told her she came over last week, sometimes she was dropping the kids off and

00:30:02.500 she's like, Hey, the house looks great.

00:30:04.160 I'm like, yeah, you know, it looks pretty good, but I'm like, it's cold.

00:30:07.380 You know, it's, it's cold.

00:30:08.640 She's like, I don't think so.

00:30:09.400 I'm like, nah, like you can be honest.

00:30:11.460 It's cold.

00:30:12.660 And she's like, maybe a little, I'm like, well, what can I do?

00:30:15.040 And she gave me a couple ideas, but yeah, that's, I think that's exactly to your point.

00:30:20.920 Like I've thought about it.

00:30:23.060 You know, a woman bring takes, takes resources, whatever those are.

00:30:27.760 Like you said, sperm or, uh, you know, sticks to build a house or whatever.

00:30:32.560 She takes the resources that we go out and we secure and provide as men.

00:30:36.020 And she takes those and she refines them and hones them and tweaks them and adjusts them

00:30:39.920 to make them something that's livable and consumable and beautiful.

00:30:44.300 Yeah.

00:30:45.000 Yeah.

00:30:45.360 I know that you have a, you have a background in, in the biblical stuff as well.

00:30:49.200 Right.

00:30:49.860 Like at least growing up in the church.

00:30:51.100 I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say it like a background.

00:30:53.560 I mean, I, I'm, I'm religious, I'm spiritual, but I wouldn't say there's any sort of

00:30:57.640 formal training or education or anything like that.

00:31:00.840 Well, you probably, well, the reason I asked is because you probably know this, but like

00:31:04.200 Proverbs 31 talks about, uh, like it talks specifically about a woman and, um, Proverbs

00:31:09.760 written by, uh, Solomon, who's the wisest King from the Jewish, um, heritage.

00:31:15.000 But I think that's kind of where, that's kind of where his wisdom is going.

00:31:18.420 He's like, look, you can do all these things, but a woman will take whatever you're going

00:31:22.320 to do and just make it, make it more.

00:31:25.580 And as a, as a man, I'm like, I have, again, I come from that traditional feel about men

00:31:31.440 and women.

00:31:32.020 So for me, I go, I have, I mean, even the order of man is protect, provide, and preside.

00:31:37.280 I love that.

00:31:37.960 And I resonate heavily with that.

00:31:40.000 And then I take those and bring those to the table.

00:31:43.700 And then my wife takes all of that and just expounds on it to a level that makes my family,

00:31:49.820 um, like feel like this is, this is what I want, you know, that kind of thing.

00:31:53.920 So I love that about my relationship with her.

00:31:56.040 And, uh, I think any man that, any man that doesn't see that isn't really trying to, I

00:32:03.100 don't know.

00:32:03.300 I think if, if, if we're willing to do what we're supposed to do and willing to like watch

00:32:07.900 her, you will see that come about in your own relationship.

00:32:12.120 I think what ends up happening a lot of the times is we see the women in our lives as

00:32:16.300 important, um, a component of a good life.

00:32:20.920 I would think for the most part.

00:32:23.260 Yeah.

00:32:23.760 Um, on a, on a, uh, I think maybe a bad scale is, as men maybe tend to believe that they're,

00:32:30.900 you know, good for sex and nothing more.

00:32:33.260 I mean, I don't agree with that, but I think that's what a lot of guys might believe.

00:32:36.300 And that I've even seen messages in this, in the circles in which I run that, that perpetuate

00:32:41.360 that idea.

00:32:43.140 But I found that the guys who seem to have an understanding that, uh, relationship between

00:32:50.640 a man and a woman is integrated, you know, meaning that she is not just a component, a

00:32:55.800 piece of the puzzle, but she is an integral part of the system, right?

00:32:59.680 Like everything that's like, it works together as a system, a cohesive unit, because there's

00:33:05.080 a woman involved is, uh, I think that's a, uh, I think that'll serve men better.

00:33:11.140 I think there'll be more fulfilled.

00:33:12.280 I think women will.

00:33:13.100 And I think it's just a better way to look at human beings, let alone somebody you really

00:33:16.400 love and care about.

00:33:17.560 Right.

00:33:18.000 I completely agree with that.

00:33:19.420 Yeah.

00:33:20.260 So, so you have, you have four kids or do you have, is it four?

00:33:24.260 I have five, five, five.

00:33:26.160 Your oldest is 19.

00:33:27.020 So you've been through the, through, through the, through two decades of raising kids.

00:33:30.620 You know, we talked a lot about newborns and infants.

00:33:34.720 And, and so for you, you know, what were some of the challenges as your children went

00:33:39.960 from infant to toddler to teenager?

00:33:43.320 We can talk about that.

00:33:44.300 And then of course, beyond that, man, let me take a step away from our conversation.

00:33:50.780 Very briefly.

00:33:51.600 I wanted to let you know, and I've been talking about this for the last couple of weeks, but

00:33:54.740 the iron council, our exclusive brotherhood is going to be open again on June 15th.

00:33:59.680 So that is about two weeks from now.

00:34:02.720 You need to be ready because when we do, we're only going to be open for a very, very short

00:34:07.060 period of time.

00:34:08.180 So if you don't know what the iron council is, suffice it to say right now that it's our

00:34:12.180 exclusive brotherhood of men all working together to hold each other accountable to

00:34:16.600 our goals and objectives.

00:34:18.380 We do have a video at order of man.com slash iron council that you can watch.

00:34:22.460 And in it, I go through the specific features and benefits and why you might want to consider

00:34:27.100 banding with us to improve your life.

00:34:29.960 And that's at order of man.com slash iron council.

00:34:33.460 And since we're talking about fatherhood, I want you to know that we have dozens, dozens

00:34:38.600 of specific channels of topics inside the iron council that are going to allow you to customize

00:34:43.820 your experience, including fatherhood like today's topic, but also entrepreneurship and

00:34:48.800 really everything in between.

00:34:50.680 So if you want to know more about and or band with us, head to order of man.com slash iron

00:34:55.960 council.

00:34:57.020 Again, that's order of man.com slash iron council.

00:35:00.140 And I hope to see you inside, uh, in the middle of June when we open up again, order of man.com

00:35:05.400 slash iron council.

00:35:06.600 Let's get back to it.

00:35:07.600 Nate.

00:35:07.780 What I, I guess I didn't enjoy on the front end of that.

00:35:12.800 Now I try to savor it.

00:35:14.820 And this is where like coming from my Instagram is, is this is where a lot of that comes from

00:35:21.140 is that I, I looked back and went, man, I could have done so many more things better.

00:35:25.640 And it don't mean like, should it take it to more places and things like that.

00:35:28.120 I could have just interacted and connected on a better level.

00:35:30.760 Um, I remember like when my oldest was little and he would cry because he couldn't talk yet.

00:35:36.400 I'm like, I can't wait till you can talk.

00:35:37.620 And then when he could talk, I'm like, man, I can't wait till he can do this.

00:35:40.400 Or I can't wait till he can do that.

00:35:41.660 And, and it's almost like we wish their life away.

00:35:44.480 And so I found that because I was doing that along the way, I missed so many things.

00:35:49.720 So it's funny.

00:35:50.660 Cause we worry when we talk about the challenges of, of, of like baby and then toddler and you're

00:35:56.140 right.

00:35:56.380 Teenage.

00:35:56.960 Oh my gosh.

00:35:57.640 Like teenage years are, they're tough, right?

00:36:00.180 You have teenage daughters.

00:36:01.700 I have one teenage daughter.

00:36:03.180 She's 16.

00:36:04.320 Okay.

00:36:04.600 Yeah.

00:36:04.840 Oh, wow.

00:36:05.220 You're right.

00:36:06.980 So it's, it's one of those things where I'm like, I look at my wife and I'm like, for

00:36:10.920 real at one point, I think she was 13.

00:36:13.980 And I said, where did my, where did my little girl go?

00:36:16.160 Like what happened that you're now like so angry?

00:36:19.400 Yeah.

00:36:20.460 The one thing that was funny to me, I heard somebody say one time and it's a little, it's

00:36:24.780 a little crass, but it's funny.

00:36:25.800 It makes sense.

00:36:26.280 It's like, when you have a son, you have to worry about one penis.

00:36:28.960 When you have a daughter, you have to worry about all the penises.

00:36:33.420 It's totally true.

00:36:34.420 You know, I said that, uh, when I first had my, my oldest, I said that to a guy who had

00:36:38.080 only daughters and he goes, yeah, but when the worst thing she can, he's like, what's

00:36:43.120 the worst thing she can do?

00:36:43.900 And I'm like, I guess she comes home saying she's pregnant.

00:36:45.720 He's like, yeah.

00:36:46.440 And he, he can come home and go, well, she's pregnant and she's pregnant.

00:36:49.700 She, and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:36:50.900 Good.

00:36:51.080 That's a good point too.

00:36:54.040 Good.

00:36:54.540 Okay.

00:36:55.080 Point taken.

00:36:57.220 Yeah.

00:36:57.580 That one hit me in the face.

00:36:58.580 I'm like, oh no.

00:36:59.860 Yeah.

00:37:00.400 Yeah.

00:37:00.580 Sure.

00:37:00.980 Yeah, absolutely.

00:37:01.960 So I guess when it comes down to it, like I'm trying to save her every moment.

00:37:05.140 So my youngest is almost three.

00:37:07.000 She'll be three in July.

00:37:07.980 I'm just enjoying, like, she's going through potty training right now, which potty training

00:37:12.820 with the oldest was, it's so funny to see the difference.

00:37:15.420 And everybody always says that the youngest is spoiled.

00:37:17.660 I think parents just realized they didn't need to care as much about stuff.

00:37:20.140 You know, like I don't, I don't really need to worry about this or that, or my house needs

00:37:24.020 to be clean.

00:37:24.380 Dude, I've got drawings like underneath my desk.

00:37:27.160 I have a standing desk underneath my desk.

00:37:28.680 The whole wall right there has marker all over it.

00:37:31.080 Right.

00:37:31.560 Then Nate at 25 with a one-year-old son would have been like, oh my gosh, just stop.

00:37:36.940 Yeah, dude, it would have been out of my mind.

00:37:39.540 At this point, I'm like, yeah, what, you know what, whatever, like make it work.

00:37:42.680 And at some point I'll paint it like no big deal.

00:37:44.480 Right.

00:37:45.020 Right.

00:37:45.280 You know, you've got, you've got stuff.

00:37:46.980 Well, so we're potty training her.

00:37:48.880 Dude, she just, she just runs out and wants to pee outside like the boys.

00:37:53.080 So she runs out and pees outside.

00:37:54.820 At one point, I think she, she pooped outside.

00:37:57.040 I'm like, what is happening?

00:37:58.100 We have savages in our house.

00:37:59.740 But at the same time, I'm like, ah, you know what?

00:38:02.080 She's learning the feel.

00:38:03.260 And that's what is so important.

00:38:04.200 The moment she realizes that she's got to go.

00:38:05.800 Now we just got to direct her back to the potty.

00:38:07.740 That's all, you know?

00:38:09.340 And so I'm just enjoying, and I know it sounds crazy, but I'm enjoying that part.

00:38:13.000 You know, she comes out and she's like, dad, I would pee in the potty.

00:38:15.220 And then she's like jelly beans.

00:38:16.600 Cause I don't know about you, but I'm like, yeah, we're going to give you jelly beans

00:38:19.660 until we don't need to give you jelly beans to get you to do that.

00:38:22.200 Um, the, the, the youngers that are just older than her, I've got two boys that are a year

00:38:28.060 and six days apart and they, they're in that seven, eight stage.

00:38:32.420 So that's that whole like wrestling and all the things.

00:38:35.260 I mean, they're, they're into fun stuff.

00:38:36.920 It's fun to watch them grow into their personality.

00:38:39.300 So Finn is my seven year old.

00:38:41.140 He'll be eight in August.

00:38:41.940 He is hilarious and he's catching on to like nuances of funny things.

00:38:46.780 And then he'd be like, you know, they'd be like dad.

00:38:48.800 And I, you know, I'm just laughing about that.

00:38:51.460 Um, my youngest son, Wyatt is really, he's a real sensitive soul.

00:38:55.760 I had a friend say that he sees more colors than we do a couple of years ago.

00:38:59.620 And I'm like, yeah, that describes him really well.

00:39:02.100 Like, it's just that he feels deeper.

00:39:04.580 Um, so you're interacting with him a little differently.

00:39:07.060 And then as they grow in, they're trying to become more and more dependent or independent.

00:39:11.060 And I think that should start for us as dads.

00:39:14.220 And it probably does to let go faster.

00:39:17.240 And, uh, I think parents who like helicopter and hold onto stuff real hard, uh, they have

00:39:22.940 a real hard time when it comes time for their 18 year old to graduate and go to college.

00:39:26.720 Right.

00:39:27.740 Um, but if we're constantly giving them more and more independence, when that time comes,

00:39:32.480 it's difficult, it's hard, it's sad.

00:39:34.700 I mean, oh my gosh, like I've had plenty of times where I've just been sad.

00:39:38.580 My dude is not in the house.

00:39:40.380 Um, but it's also easier because I'm like, well, he's, he's been doing some of these

00:39:47.400 things already.

00:39:48.100 I don't have to worry so much.

00:39:49.640 There's just, you know, but you're, you're a parent, you're never not going to worry,

00:39:52.860 but you're constantly trying to give independence.

00:39:54.440 Um, at one point I, I told the story on Instagram, but at one point he was dating this girl that

00:40:00.380 I was like, dude, this is bad, bad news.

00:40:02.800 It's like, she is not good.

00:40:04.400 She's getting you to try to lie to us.

00:40:06.600 She's you're trying to do things behind our back.

00:40:09.580 This is all dangerous choices.

00:40:12.200 And I mean, in that instance, that whole concept of like, oh, she's pregnant.

00:40:15.620 She's pregnant.

00:40:16.000 The last thing I wanted to hear was that this girl was pregnant.

00:40:18.160 Like that's, I was scared to death about that.

00:40:21.000 Right.

00:40:21.160 Um, and I, I just said to him, look, dude, I, I know this is your, this is your life.

00:40:25.940 This is your game.

00:40:27.540 But if you can understand that I'm up in the box, watching the whole field, trying to make

00:40:32.180 calls and help you understand, I'm like, all you can see is the defender in front of you,

00:40:36.340 but I've got the whole field view.

00:40:38.200 So when I say like, you know, slant left, like I'm, I'm not doing that.

00:40:42.940 Cause I'm trying to be a jerk.

00:40:43.860 I'm doing that.

00:40:44.440 Cause I can see a defender coming to smash your face.

00:40:47.040 And, uh, at the point, at that point he was in, like, he was in football.

00:40:51.640 I never played football.

00:40:52.540 I just was like, all right, you know, like this kind of worked.

00:40:55.080 Um, but he had been, and he kind of got it.

00:40:59.260 I mean, it still took him like realizing it himself, but that moment I was like, I'm just

00:41:04.740 a coach.

00:41:05.160 Like I'm here and I've got responsibilities to you, but I'm really at the point in your

00:41:08.920 life where all I can do is say, I've been in down this road on my own.

00:41:12.580 And now I'm standing on the side of the field or up in the box, watching you play your

00:41:16.580 game.

00:41:17.000 And all I can do is toss out ideas and give you some advice because you're going to do

00:41:21.600 what you're going to do.

00:41:22.580 You know, at teenage, I mean, you probably the same way, but I mean, I didn't want to

00:41:27.000 listen to my parents.

00:41:28.200 Like they didn't know anything, you know, you don't.

00:41:30.520 Yeah, exactly.

00:41:31.520 So the last thing I want to do is, you know, push down hard on, you're not dating this girl.

00:41:36.920 You can't be around her.

00:41:37.940 The only thing I could do is say, this is what I'm seeing.

00:41:41.060 This is what I'm seeing.

00:41:42.640 You know, I love you and I want you to make good choices, but.

00:41:45.540 But you're going to, if I push hard on this, he's going to go behind my back and, and it

00:41:50.080 may even be worse.

00:41:51.760 Right.

00:41:52.120 Yeah.

00:41:52.440 He may do it out of just pure spite at that point.

00:41:55.040 Right.

00:41:55.500 Yeah, exactly.

00:41:56.720 Cut your nose off and spite your face kind of thing.

00:41:58.880 Right.

00:41:59.340 One thing you said is letting go a bit.

00:42:01.080 And I thought that was powerful because I think the greater risk and not only in my

00:42:04.780 own life, but in talking with hundreds, if not thousands of guys about this is the greater

00:42:08.820 risk is not that you're going to be too disciplinary and that you're not going to be, or, you know,

00:42:13.440 like, you're not going to, you're not going to do it enough that you're not going to be

00:42:16.120 as disciplinary as you need to, or you're not going to be as structured as you need to.

00:42:19.880 That's not the risk for guys.

00:42:21.260 Like it really isn't like, guys, we can, we can get rid of that notion.

00:42:25.240 Like you're, it's not like anybody listening to this podcast, and I'm sure much of the

00:42:29.520 people who follow you, like, they don't have a concern about like, Oh, am I going to provide

00:42:33.260 enough structure?

00:42:34.020 Trust me.

00:42:35.160 Like you need, I'm speaking to myself.

00:42:37.640 You need to learn to let go a little bit and enjoy and the paint and the markers on the

00:42:43.160 wall, you know, maybe, maybe there's, you know, some painting that takes place and you

00:42:47.960 have your kids participate in that cleaning stuff up.

00:42:50.060 But like, we all need to let go a little bit.

00:42:52.800 I think that would serve us all very, very well.

00:42:55.580 And I actually think that that's where most guys, they, they bulk at that because they,

00:43:00.060 they don't think that that's the case there.

00:43:02.060 I do.

00:43:02.900 Yeah.

00:43:03.380 I mean, that's where I was.

00:43:04.620 And I still in that way at times, I'm like, Oh, you know, and I, that's where I feel like

00:43:08.580 I'm telling guys, Hey, we should be this way.

00:43:10.860 And then I'm still having to tell myself that and having to live through that and push myself

00:43:15.680 to a new level of relaxing because I, I know that I'm going to be structured enough and

00:43:21.620 disciplinary enough.

00:43:23.040 And the truth is I'm probably so much overboard of that.

00:43:25.700 They could probably use a lot less of that than I really think they could.

00:43:29.320 Yeah.

00:43:29.720 How's it been with your oldest now out of the house?

00:43:33.100 Like, has that changed?

00:43:34.440 I mean, it's, I guess it's a little different than you.

00:43:36.140 Cause you still have four at home.

00:43:37.200 It sounds like, but has that changed your identity at all?

00:43:41.880 I know a lot of guys who have, they become empty nesters.

00:43:45.280 And again, you're not, I understand that, but become empty nesters.

00:43:48.200 And it's like restarting life.

00:43:49.920 I've had friends who were like, man, my kids are out of the house.

00:43:52.420 And like, I don't even know if I love my wife anymore.

00:43:54.720 Cause we haven't even focused on each other for the past 20 years.

00:43:57.420 I don't, like, I don't know any of this stuff.

00:43:59.360 I'm really curious what you think about that.

00:44:01.580 Yeah.

00:44:01.820 I can see where that would be the case.

00:44:03.380 I mean, if you really are honed in on your kids that much all the time, and you're just,

00:44:07.660 you start, you fall into a, I don't want to say a rut, but more of a routine of that's,

00:44:12.120 this is the way life is.

00:44:13.440 I think that the letting go helps that I think is as you give them more, as you give them

00:44:18.520 more freedom, you gain more freedom.

00:44:21.320 So you have the ability to do that.

00:44:22.960 So like you said, yeah, we're still, we're still in the, I mean, my youngest,

00:44:26.740 probably 95% of the time is in our bed.

00:44:31.080 So like, we don't, we don't have that yet.

00:44:33.700 Even though we have one out of the house, I say, well, I've got one in college and one

00:44:36.280 in diapers.

00:44:37.260 And that's just kind of like, that's the nature of my life.

00:44:41.100 So I don't feel like empty nester like that.

00:44:44.260 But I think that if, if we don't focus, I feel like I've heard this on your, on, on,

00:44:48.600 on this podcast.

00:44:49.460 Uh, like if we don't focus on our relationship, we will, we will do that.

00:44:54.280 We'll wake up one day, kids will be out of the house and I've got nothing that I have

00:44:57.860 in common with this woman anymore.

00:44:59.060 And honestly, my wife is awesome.

00:45:01.280 I just, I want to make sure that never happens, you know?

00:45:04.320 So I, I really do.

00:45:06.560 I'm, I think that that takes a lot of, it takes focus, you know, and you just got to make

00:45:11.020 sure you keep after it.

00:45:12.920 Yeah.

00:45:13.200 I know with, with my own relationship, that was a big part of the problem.

00:45:15.960 I tend to focus so heavily, not necessarily on the kids, but on work that, that, that

00:45:19.940 the relationship with my kids and wife comes at the expense of, of those things.

00:45:24.140 And so, you know, you, you do that long enough and it's like, I mean, you can't recover from,

00:45:30.300 right?

00:45:30.600 It's true.

00:45:31.080 I hope guys stay vigilant with it.

00:45:32.760 How have you found, um, balancing that though, with four kids at home, you've got a toddler,

00:45:38.360 you've got three other kids, you've got a wife who obviously you love and you want

00:45:42.700 to spend time with her and be with her.

00:45:44.060 Like, what does date night look for like for you guys?

00:45:47.120 How do you guys get your time alone, intimacy, that sort of thing with the fact that you

00:45:51.820 have four other little humans that are relying upon you guys.

00:45:55.580 Right.

00:45:55.960 Um, I would say I, I fail more on this particular front.

00:46:00.180 I think, um, I don't, we don't have a specific night.

00:46:03.220 Um, I'm, I might, we might be crazy, but, uh, when it comes to like letting, like having

00:46:08.700 our kids watched by somebody else, I'm horribly vigilant and very not trusting.

00:46:14.060 So I don't think that's crazy.

00:46:16.000 I think that's smart.

00:46:16.840 I mean, I think that's wise and prudent.

00:46:18.680 Yeah.

00:46:18.940 I mean, honestly, even some of my best friends, I'm like, yeah, I don't, I don't need to do

00:46:22.640 that.

00:46:22.880 You know, and we don't normally go very far when we do it.

00:46:25.900 We have a really close friend just down the street that will take them every once in a

00:46:29.620 while.

00:46:29.840 Um, and so for us, it's just kind of, we, we end up doing it in the evenings where the

00:46:36.560 kids finally go down for, uh, to sleep and we spend a little bit of time together in that

00:46:40.980 way, shape or form.

00:46:41.780 And then here and there, we'll try and we'll try and get away where we can just go out.

00:46:45.020 Sometimes she's like, I just want to have a beer with my husband.

00:46:46.720 I'm like, that sounds like a great idea.

00:46:48.820 And I mean, you kind of, you got to do it.

00:46:50.580 And I hear a lot of guys say, you've got to, you've got to put that time in.

00:46:54.020 And we started our relationship, not very structured at all.

00:46:57.160 Like, Oh, we just love hanging out and it's great and all that.

00:46:59.480 And the more people you add to your family and all of that, you, the structure I used

00:47:04.160 to fight against is now what I crave in like, you know, I would be okay with Wednesday nights

00:47:10.300 we go out or Thursday night.

00:47:11.980 We like, I would be okay with knowing that that's date night because at least I'm not going

00:47:16.520 to miss her.

00:47:17.660 And I think that they got, there's something to be said about structure.

00:47:20.680 And I just, we're so, we're because of our younger kids, I'm so vigilant about who watches

00:47:28.040 them that you can't guarantee that that's going to happen every time.

00:47:30.520 And so, and finding a babysitter where, I mean, you, at this point in the game, it, babysitters

00:47:35.980 want practically like $30 an hour.

00:47:38.760 You're like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to spend as much out on a date as I am for the, you know,

00:47:42.720 it's like triple the cost to, to, to have a date night.

00:47:46.160 So that can be, that can be rough for a lot of guys, I think, or a lot of people.

00:47:51.520 How are you guys on, um, on, on bedtimes?

00:47:54.500 Like I've, I've, I've, I have, you know, a different couple of different schools of thought.

00:47:58.540 One school of thought is like, Oh, we're pretty liberal and loose with when they go to bed.

00:48:01.960 And you know, when, when they, when they're tired, I'm like, I never, I never bought into

00:48:05.600 that personally, but okay.

00:48:07.160 Like I'm rigid.

00:48:08.180 Like you go to bed at this time, you go to bed at this time.

00:48:11.120 And as they get older, you know, we bump that back and let them stay up a little bit later.

00:48:15.160 Give them a curfew if they're out with their friends, but are you guys pretty tight

00:48:17.940 on the schedules and inner routines that way?

00:48:20.720 I would say I was, uh, I won't say that I'm like fully off of it, but I used to be so

00:48:24.480 rigid that like the moment eight o'clock hit, if they weren't in bed, I start like the rage

00:48:28.780 started to rise in my heart.

00:48:30.100 You know, it's like at my nine o'clock dad is I'm checked out.

00:48:33.280 Cause I'm so mad that if I, if I talk to anybody, it's going to not be nice.

00:48:36.820 You know, that kind of thing.

00:48:37.500 That's the way I was.

00:48:38.620 Um, I'm still, I still have to back off of that, but I've gotten a lot more loose on that.

00:48:42.400 Cause I'm going, all right, well, if your bedtime routine is normal, especially for the

00:48:46.700 youngers, for the olders, like the oldest one, I never had a curfew and which is probably

00:48:51.260 crazy on my parents' part, but I kind of followed suit with that where I'm just like, I just,

00:48:55.520 I just need to know where you are.

00:48:56.580 Tell me who you're with.

00:48:57.360 Like, I don't like, and then I need to know when you get home.

00:49:00.040 Um, and so that's kind of, I play that through from that.

00:49:04.780 That comes from my growing up.

00:49:06.140 Cause I didn't really have a curfew.

00:49:07.320 So the youngers, I'm like, all right, between eight and nine, we probably need to be getting

00:49:12.120 them in bed by nine o'clock.

00:49:13.360 It's very rare.

00:49:14.020 We go past that.

00:49:14.900 But I think that those people that are out there saying, if you have a structured bedtime

00:49:18.840 where the kids know what's going to happen, you have a higher likelihood of getting them

00:49:22.760 to bed on time.

00:49:23.500 I mean, I am living proof that that is the case.

00:49:26.520 The more structured that timeframe is they know, okay, you know, beds like bath and then

00:49:31.660 books and then bedtime kind of thing.

00:49:33.260 If you do that to dads who are new, if you start that early, I think you're going to

00:49:38.140 have a lot more success in getting them down at the right time.

00:49:42.140 Um, and then kid, you know, kids are constantly going to get out of bed.

00:49:45.100 I need water.

00:49:45.900 I just had this thought or what are we doing tomorrow?

00:49:48.020 I mean, like, I still do it.

00:49:52.560 I'm like, Oh, I just, I can't talk.

00:49:53.900 I'm like, go ahead, Meg.

00:49:54.620 You're just going to have to deal with it.

00:49:55.600 Cause if I deal with it, it's going to be bad.

00:49:57.980 I've started to let go of that where I'm like, yeah, man, come on.

00:50:00.140 It's fine.

00:50:00.760 Yep.

00:50:01.040 Tomorrow we're going to do this or, you know, whatever your question is.

00:50:04.220 And then I'll be like, all right, go to bed.

00:50:05.600 You know, after 15 times, you're like, okay, it's time to be done.

00:50:09.480 Now I'm out of my mind.

00:50:10.340 But for the most part, they're less likely to do that from what I've seen, the more we

00:50:14.880 spend time with them.

00:50:15.500 And honestly, to the dads who don't want that, like, don't want that happening.

00:50:19.020 And they get frustrated, especially with youngers.

00:50:20.940 My suggestion is lay in bed with them, just lay in bed and let them talk.

00:50:25.820 Um, I didn't do that a lot.

00:50:28.180 And now they're old enough where like, that's not something they like need or want.

00:50:32.540 Um, but I can tell that the three-year-old will need that.

00:50:35.240 And that's what I'll do.

00:50:36.240 It's just lay in bed with them, let them talk until you probably fall asleep.

00:50:39.500 They'll fall asleep.

00:50:40.320 And then you wake up and, and have the rest of your night with your wife or whatever.

00:50:43.780 Um, I mean, that makes it so much softer and calmer that it's okay.

00:50:50.620 Yeah.

00:50:51.840 One thing my, uh, seven-year-old does is if we go to the grocery store, he wants to hold

00:50:56.920 my hand and I'm, I'm cool with that.

00:50:58.000 I love that.

00:50:58.620 Cause I, he's the last one.

00:51:00.160 This is the last one.

00:51:00.900 He's going to hold my hand for very much longer.

00:51:02.760 Yeah.

00:51:03.280 And, um, he'll grab the cart.

00:51:05.320 He'll put his hand on the cart as I'm pushing the cart.

00:51:07.740 He'll put his hand on it.

00:51:08.500 And it's super annoying, like super obnoxious because he's pulling on it or he's like hanging

00:51:13.560 on it.

00:51:14.000 And I'm like, gosh, damn, this is obnoxious.

00:51:16.100 And then I always, I, I have managed up to this point to catch myself and say, you know

00:51:20.160 what?

00:51:20.940 The kid wants to hold onto the cart cause his dad's pushing it.

00:51:24.100 And like, it's an opportunity for me to be a little closer to him.

00:51:27.260 So just, just embrace it.

00:51:29.780 Just embrace it.

00:51:30.860 Like, I wish I would have done that with my 15 year old.

00:51:33.120 I didn't, but I wish I would have.

00:51:35.120 Yeah, no, I feel that.

00:51:36.220 I feel that I'm, I'm with you on that.

00:51:37.620 I, I, I pick up my youngest just about every time she asks for that reason.

00:51:42.680 Cause one day it'll be the last time she asks.

00:51:45.060 And the last thing I want to do is miss that and feel like I should have done it more.

00:51:48.560 At least I'll be able to go, Oh girl, I picked you up as many times as you wanted every time.

00:51:53.520 I said this in an Instagram post or Facebook, Facebook post years ago, I think at this point,

00:51:58.280 and it kind of, it almost went viral a little bit.

00:52:00.900 And it was, it was, and I'm paraphrasing, but it was like, consider that there's going to

00:52:05.340 come a point in your time, a point in time where you're going to put your kid down and

00:52:10.980 you're never going to pick them up again, that there, there's a time where you're never going

00:52:17.680 to pick them and you don't know what it is, but it's going to happen.

00:52:21.140 And that's a really sobering thought for sure.

00:52:23.520 So that hits me in my soul, dude, like for real, that one punches me right there to a

00:52:28.960 level where I'm like, my eyes fill up with tears and I'm like, man, I hope that doesn't

00:52:31.580 happen just yet, but you're, you're spot on, man.

00:52:35.180 And it's like a lot of us miss that.

00:52:38.340 You know, we were, we're so, we're so busy trying to get them to bed so I can do something

00:52:43.540 else.

00:52:43.880 Or, you know, we got to eat fast cause we've got this going on, or we've got to do this

00:52:47.160 and we've got to do that.

00:52:48.120 And the beauty of kids and, uh, Dr. Shefali is, uh, she's like great, like psychiatrist.

00:52:55.680 She's doesn't like family and all that.

00:52:57.380 One of the things she says is the beauty of children is they force us to be present because

00:53:01.520 that's the only thing they know.

00:53:03.100 And I love that because, and that's only been a recent read for me, but, and, and interacting

00:53:09.080 with her, but I love that because the more I've, I've felt myself feeling that, you know,

00:53:15.100 I've got one out of the nest already and feeling that regret, the more I want to like drive

00:53:20.120 into that part of life with my kids where just let me, let me hold you longer.

00:53:24.560 I think there's a book like, that's like, let me hold you longer.

00:53:27.120 And I know that every, every woman that reads it, like just cries.

00:53:30.580 Cause it's literally that whole thing.

00:53:32.300 You read a book and by the time you're done reading it, your kid has grown up.

00:53:35.160 And so you close it, you look at him, you're like, Oh, I love you.

00:53:37.300 You know, and all that.

00:53:38.120 It's funny.

00:53:38.660 I'll check it out.

00:53:39.380 But it's true, man.

00:53:40.120 It's totally true.

00:53:40.800 Like you, you're spot on like that.

00:53:43.240 Oh yeah.

00:53:43.960 Hits me right in the, like right in the soul face.

00:53:46.860 Yeah.

00:53:47.420 The soul face.

00:53:49.720 One, uh, one thing I'm hearing you say is you're talking about with the kids and your

00:53:53.560 wife and you know, you said, you said, uh, you're not the greatest at date night necessarily.

00:53:57.220 But one thing I did hear you say is that you guys are intentional about it and you're aware

00:54:01.840 of it.

00:54:02.220 And it's something on your mind.

00:54:03.640 I think what ends up happening is we have these kids that we love and care about and want

00:54:07.760 to pour completely into, and that's good.

00:54:09.620 That's right.

00:54:10.260 You should want to do that.

00:54:11.180 Uh, but we aren't real intentional or vigilant.

00:54:14.400 I think is the word you used about ensuring that our wife gets our attention too.

00:54:19.100 Cause one thought I had is that, you know, your kids are going to be with you for about

00:54:22.700 two decades.

00:54:24.160 That's it.

00:54:25.180 You know, they're going to go out, they're going to do their thing.

00:54:26.900 They're going to have their spouses and their families, but they're going to be with you

00:54:29.760 for two decades.

00:54:30.460 Your wife could potentially five decades, six decades.

00:54:35.560 Like you, you probably ought to continue to foster that relationship because at some point

00:54:40.200 the kids are gone and it's just you and your wife.

00:54:43.260 Absolutely.

00:54:44.700 Yeah, absolutely.

00:54:46.340 Yeah.

00:54:47.180 Yeah.

00:54:47.640 Savor what you got with all of them.

00:54:49.260 Uh, I mean, you've been talking a lot more recently about presence, uh, which I loved your

00:54:53.500 post when you went hiking with your kids.

00:54:54.900 I thought that was great.

00:54:55.720 Um, but it's, it's that kind of stuff being able to just focus in on the moment instead

00:55:02.980 of, instead of being somewhere else.

00:55:05.940 And I'm, I feel like sometimes I feel crazy.

00:55:08.320 I feel like I'm all alone in this, but the truth is when I hear you talking about it and

00:55:12.220 I hear other guys or I'm talking with other guys, I feel like we all do this to ourselves.

00:55:15.860 We spend so much time worrying about the future, whether it's because finances are tough or,

00:55:21.620 you know, whatever it is, we've got all these worries.

00:55:23.900 So we're either in the future or we're in the past thinking about what I should have

00:55:27.940 done.

00:55:28.220 I should have done this.

00:55:28.800 I should have done that.

00:55:29.500 And the truth is if we, if we can get ourselves to really hone in on right now, you got it.

00:55:36.560 You got it pretty good.

00:55:37.440 I mean, there might be some people out there that don't, but I know that I can do that.

00:55:40.940 I can put myself in a place of total fear.

00:55:43.380 If I just keep thinking about the future and I don't sit in the present, or if I keep thinking

00:55:47.780 about the past, I'm going to regret stuff or be frustrated.

00:55:49.940 But if I can sit in the presence with my kids, with my wife, with like, when I'm hanging

00:55:54.140 out, like on this podcast, when I'm hanging out with friends, if we can just be present

00:55:57.820 that our whole perspective changes and it, we realize how good we've got it.

00:56:05.020 Yeah.

00:56:05.800 Do you have any advice for single fathers?

00:56:07.980 There's a lot of guys who tune in.

00:56:09.540 I'm a single father.

00:56:10.300 There's a lot of guys who are single fathers that are listening who, you know, they don't

00:56:13.120 have, I jokingly, but also seriously say that there used to be a point in time, even just

00:56:19.360 a year ago where I had 50% of the responsibilities, 100% of the time.

00:56:23.580 And now I have 100% of the responsibilities, 50% of the time.

00:56:27.460 So it changes.

00:56:29.140 It's such a weird, it's really been, I've really had to adapt and evolve in figuring this

00:56:35.080 situation out, navigating this.

00:56:37.280 But yeah, a lot of guys don't have their kids halftime.

00:56:39.960 A lot of guys maybe don't see their kids at all, or they're talking to them on the

00:56:42.560 phone.

00:56:43.540 Is there any advice that you have for these guys of making the most of their relationship

00:56:48.100 with their kids in limited interaction situations?

00:56:51.480 Sure.

00:56:51.720 Absolutely.

00:56:52.440 Well, what I can tell you is my first two kids were from a previous marriage.

00:56:55.700 So I have that experience.

00:56:57.420 Yeah.

00:56:57.620 I have that experience.

00:56:58.700 That's why there's a gap.

00:56:59.560 It's 19, 16, and then seven, six, and three.

00:57:02.760 Makes sense.

00:57:03.220 Okay.

00:57:03.380 Got it.

00:57:03.640 I have that experience in a sense, because I have, I have the three that are the younger are

00:57:09.540 with me all the time, but the, the older two were 50% with their mom and 50% with us.

00:57:14.600 And, uh, and I'll say that the one, again, some of that regret was I need to, I need to

00:57:20.200 talk to them more.

00:57:20.900 Like being present comes into play really heavily there.

00:57:23.880 Right.

00:57:24.360 And as guys, more than more often than not, we're like, I've got to work.

00:57:29.480 Like I can't not work.

00:57:30.460 So now they're here, but I'm still going to have to work.

00:57:32.180 I'm still going to have to do these things.

00:57:33.560 And I'm not saying women don't do that, but for real, let's be, let's be honest.

00:57:36.720 Like I spend most of my time going, I'm going to have to work.

00:57:39.060 I got to make money and we've got to do these things.

00:57:42.080 The only, the thing I would say is, uh, if you're in a situation where it doesn't sound

00:57:48.540 like it is this way for you, but like, if you have to fight for your kids, fight tooth

00:57:52.300 and nail, like go for it because they not only do that, they need their mom, but they need

00:57:56.860 their dad and they deserve you and they deserve your time.

00:57:59.500 And you have to fight because in my opinion, the system is bent away from you.

00:58:05.020 It's slanted toward mom and that's difficult to fight, but you have to go like go all out

00:58:12.440 to be able to have your children and have the influence you need to have over them because

00:58:15.480 they deserve that.

00:58:16.860 Um, and then as far as time with them, uh, you know, this little, this little three by

00:58:22.700 four inch or five by four inch, uh, five by three inch box that we use on our, on a daily

00:58:27.080 basis can really suck our time away from everything.

00:58:30.660 So if you only have, if you have your kids 50% of the time when you're with them, be

00:58:36.000 with them, just turn that thing off.

00:58:38.000 I mean, if you're going to take some photos, great, but, uh, really you don't have any

00:58:41.960 need for it.

00:58:42.760 It's, it's, you don't have any need for it outside of that.

00:58:46.120 Um, don't be texting and things like that.

00:58:47.920 Like that's, but that's the kind of advice I would give any dad at any time.

00:58:51.400 You know what I mean?

00:58:51.940 Like turn your phone off or put it somewhere else, just be dad, be present.

00:58:56.400 And, and, and just know that since you only have so much time with them, just suck the

00:59:03.060 marrow out of that time, because at some point you'll take them to college and it will, you'll

00:59:07.980 feel the weight of what I felt.

00:59:10.140 Yeah.

00:59:10.540 I mean, if there's one bit of silver, I mean, there's a lot of silver linings with what's

00:59:13.700 going on in my own personal life.

00:59:14.740 But one of those is that it's made me hyper effective in other avenues of my life, like

00:59:19.440 business, super effective, super efficient, because I realized like, Hey, you know, I have

00:59:23.600 my kids every Wednesday and Thursday and every other weekend.

00:59:25.640 I'm like, okay, I've got Tuesday and Thursday, or excuse me, uh, Monday and Tuesday to kick

00:59:30.120 ass.

00:59:30.820 Yeah.

00:59:31.740 Yeah.

00:59:32.300 I got to get it done in these.

00:59:33.880 I got to get four days worth of work done in these two days.

00:59:36.180 And it's totally possible.

00:59:38.900 It's amazing.

00:59:39.580 What we think is impossible until the time constraint is shortened.

00:59:42.360 And then we still get it done.

00:59:43.220 We're like, Oh wait, maybe I wasn't as effective as I could have been all those other times where

00:59:49.340 I was dragging my feet and I think it's called, uh, Oh, it's a principle.

00:59:53.800 Um, gosh, I'm drawing a blank, but the principle is basically, you know, your, your, your work

00:59:59.180 expands to the time allotted.

01:00:01.060 Yeah.

01:00:01.480 Which means if you can track the time, then your work will fit into that time.

01:00:05.460 The same as it would if you had double or triple the time before.

01:00:08.660 So it's kind of an interesting concept.

01:00:10.580 Yeah, no, I've, I've heard that.

01:00:11.980 And I completely agree.

01:00:12.940 I've been in that situation where I'm like, I got two hours to get this done and Holy cow.

01:00:16.840 I got it done in two hours where the other day it could have taken me eight if I had

01:00:19.660 eight, you know, it's just, yeah, no, I think that's, uh, that's cool.

01:00:23.420 It's cool to see it's, it's that you're in a difficult spot, but at the same time, I think

01:00:27.100 dads that if you'll, if you'll take advantage of that, you can spend as much time with your

01:00:32.560 kids as you want.

01:00:33.220 And it, it won't feel like you've, you've only got them here and there.

01:00:36.440 It'll you, when you're working, you're working.

01:00:39.120 And when you're, and when you're with them, you're with them.

01:00:42.140 That's the, that's what we got to do for sure.

01:00:44.480 The other thing I've noticed is that we do a lot more interesting and fun things together

01:00:49.820 because when I do have them, because it's, again, it's 50% of the time, like let's go

01:00:53.460 do something awesome.

01:00:54.880 Yeah.

01:00:55.540 Yeah.

01:00:55.760 Yeah.

01:00:55.880 Whereas before it's like, I have them all the time.

01:00:57.580 We can go do that tomorrow and go to that next weekend.

01:00:59.220 I'm like, no, no, no.

01:01:00.100 Like we have to do that this weekend.

01:01:01.860 Cause I won't see him for another five days.

01:01:03.980 So it becomes a lot more enjoy again, silver lining to a bad situation, but it becomes a lot

01:01:10.040 more enjoyable because we're actively going out and doing unique and fun and interesting

01:01:14.720 things that maybe we wouldn't have done in any other context.

01:01:18.080 Yeah.

01:01:18.400 Yeah.

01:01:18.680 No, totally.

01:01:19.300 I think you're not taking them for granted when you like now you, you kind of can't, you

01:01:24.520 know, whereas like when you were, when you guys were together, she handled some stuff.

01:01:29.120 You were there, like you might have dinner all the time.

01:01:31.300 Like at some point in the evening, you were going to see them if you were working all day

01:01:35.080 and stuff like that.

01:01:35.580 And now you don't have that.

01:01:36.560 And so you're, like you said, it's a silver lining to a difficult situation, but now you,

01:01:41.280 you want to make sure that you take advantage of that time.

01:01:44.500 So I think, yeah, that's, it's good.

01:01:46.960 I'm glad, I mean, I'm glad to hear that because you're, you've been talking about it, but you're,

01:01:50.900 you're, you're experiencing it, which is why you're experiencing the need to be present.

01:01:54.960 And so you are, and that it's affecting your life in a, in a good way, even in the midst

01:01:59.740 of difficult times.

01:02:00.580 That's massive.

01:02:02.400 Well, Nate, man, I appreciate this conversation.

01:02:04.260 I appreciate you.

01:02:04.880 I, I've, I follow all of your Instagram posts and some of them are funny and, and they're

01:02:09.660 all informative.

01:02:10.640 I re they, they really helped me personally.

01:02:12.440 So I'm glad that we could connect.

01:02:14.480 I think, uh, when we try to do this and we had some, uh, technological disruptions, uh,

01:02:20.240 last week, I think you mentioned that maybe you have a book coming out soon or you're working

01:02:25.120 on a book.

01:02:25.740 Is that right?

01:02:26.240 Working on a book.

01:02:26.820 Yeah.

01:02:27.160 Working on a book.

01:02:27.780 Um, just the concept of more.

01:02:29.940 So how that whole idea that more is caught than taught in just a sense.

01:02:33.640 Um, so it's like my father before me, just understanding that everything I do, I mean,

01:02:38.180 I can say everything I want, but, but they're going to do what I do.

01:02:41.040 So what am I doing?

01:02:42.600 Yeah.

01:02:42.880 That's kind of the concept there.

01:02:44.240 When, so when does the book come out?

01:02:45.740 Do you know?

01:02:46.420 It's still in the early stages.

01:02:47.580 So I'd like to have it out within the next year.

01:02:49.940 Okay, cool.

01:02:50.560 Yeah.

01:02:50.740 I know that.

01:02:51.380 Do you have a publisher?

01:02:52.320 Are you self-publishing or what?

01:02:53.480 I'm going to self-publish this one.

01:02:55.240 Yeah.

01:02:55.520 And that's, that's a good route.

01:02:57.020 That's a good route, especially where you already have a platform and an audience.

01:02:59.440 I think there's obviously benefits to having a publisher, but sometimes the turnaround time

01:03:03.160 on that and the constraints in which you need to operate are a little tight.

01:03:06.440 So I like the self-publishing route as well.

01:03:09.440 Yeah.

01:03:09.580 That's kind of where my head's been.

01:03:10.900 Um, I got a friend from high school.

01:03:13.160 He, uh, he does some of that stuff.

01:03:15.540 So I've reached out to him about, you know, just kind of helped me stay along with it.

01:03:19.240 Uh, I'm actually on day 71 of 75 hard and my wife, my wife is like anti that not in a

01:03:26.780 sense other than she's like, you got to eat weird.

01:03:28.400 And you're constantly having to go do like all that stuff, but irritable, but she's also

01:03:34.320 said you should 75 hard, that kind of stuff.

01:03:36.740 And so what it's done for me mentally is go, okay, I just, you know, you're doing a grind,

01:03:41.320 you're doing it on a daily basis.

01:03:42.420 And so that's what will happen on this.

01:03:44.680 I was saying, I was nervous about day 76 and she's like, just start your.

01:03:49.240 75 hard, like the other things you want to do.

01:03:52.180 So that's a good idea.

01:03:54.060 Yeah.

01:03:54.820 Yeah.

01:03:55.100 Yeah, they are.

01:03:57.440 We don't give them as much credit as they deserve, but they are.

01:04:02.440 Um, that's actually what I did with my two books is I wrote both of them in about 90

01:04:07.020 days, give or take, because I just decided I'm going to write a thousand words per day,

01:04:10.920 every day until it's done.

01:04:12.720 You know?

01:04:13.220 And I, and I talk with people like, Oh yeah, I've been writing a book for five years.

01:04:16.000 I'm like, come on now, five years.

01:04:18.700 Like, what are you writing?

01:04:19.680 Like war and peace or what?

01:04:22.160 Yeah.

01:04:22.720 Like that should be done in the next two months.

01:04:24.760 Let's go.

01:04:25.180 If you're serious about it, you can do it.

01:04:26.480 Let's go.

01:04:27.480 That's pretty much where I've come from.

01:04:28.780 Cause I've had concepts of books and different ideas from different things that I've like

01:04:32.360 in life.

01:04:32.820 And this one came and I was like, I'm just going to sit down and make it, make that

01:04:35.660 happen.

01:04:35.940 And so that's like, I told her you and I talk and I'm like, this has to happen because

01:04:39.960 it's like, now we're coming through this whole concept of 75 hard, 90 days, whatever,

01:04:45.240 but daily just get in, grind it out, do it.

01:04:49.360 Right on brother.

01:04:50.180 Tell the guys where to connect with you and learn a little bit more about what you're up

01:04:52.800 to.

01:04:53.640 Absolutely.

01:04:54.300 Uh, at dads, don't babysit.

01:04:55.880 That's dads underscore don't underscore babysit, uh, is where I spend a lot of my time.

01:05:01.560 Um, Nate feathers on Facebook.

01:05:03.140 I'm here and there, but that's the, the major has been social media.

01:05:06.560 That kind of blew up on me without me even realizing it was going to go that way.

01:05:10.860 So it's been a, it's been a fun trip, but, uh, that's where I spent a lot of my time.

01:05:14.540 You do a lot of good videos, just quick snippets of information about things that dads need

01:05:18.560 to know.

01:05:18.900 Are you doing anything on Tik TOK too?

01:05:20.780 Is that something you've delved into at all?

01:05:22.620 I haven't.

01:05:23.300 And I'm like, I'm the kind of guy that I'm like, well, I'm doing it on Instagram.

01:05:26.500 Do I need to do it on Tik TOK?

01:05:27.600 And the truth is I should.

01:05:28.600 And so it's, it's been one of those things where my wife's again, my wife's like, get, just

01:05:32.400 take your videos, put them on Tik TOK, see what happens.

01:05:34.680 And so they may see me there soon.

01:05:36.600 I'm just not there just yet.

01:05:38.020 I'm not either.

01:05:38.860 I, I'm so I, I, I have thoughts on, I'm like you, I'm like, I should do that.

01:05:42.520 I haven't, but I should, uh, cause we have a lot of video content, audio content that

01:05:46.560 would be translatable over there.

01:05:47.920 I think if you're posting it anyways, like we probably ought to post it over there, but

01:05:50.920 then I also get, look, I also get into the whole China thing.

01:05:53.960 And I'm like, okay, at what point are we, you know, you hear people say, well, you know,

01:05:57.100 that's a Chinese spy thing or whatever.

01:05:58.560 It's like, okay, if you really believe that, then you wouldn't have an account.

01:06:02.320 So what is it?

01:06:03.740 Are you a principled person or are you not?

01:06:08.160 Well, my thing wasn't that it was more so like my 16 year old daughters on it and all

01:06:14.140 the, doing all these dances and stuff.

01:06:15.840 Oh yeah.

01:06:16.260 And I'm kind of like, Oh, I'm just too old for that.

01:06:19.980 But honestly, there's tons of people in their forties doing plenty of stuff over there that

01:06:24.620 is making a difference.

01:06:25.600 That's massive.

01:06:26.640 Well, just know if you're on there, I'm going to say, man, I don't know if this guy's

01:06:29.280 principled anymore.

01:06:29.960 So all right, brother, we're going to sink it all up.

01:06:36.220 No, I don't know.

01:06:37.200 I'm, I don't want to plant that in your ear and we're going to sink it all up for the

01:06:40.500 guys, but I appreciate you.

01:06:42.140 I learned a lot from you.

01:06:43.060 You've helped me be at a better father.

01:06:44.380 And thanks for joining us today, man.

01:06:46.540 Thanks, man.

01:06:46.920 That's huge.

01:06:47.420 Thank you.

01:06:47.780 All right, gentlemen, there you go.

01:06:51.120 Mr. Nate Feathers.

01:06:52.400 Dads don't babysit on the gram.

01:06:54.820 I hope you connect.

01:06:56.400 If you're a father or a soon to be father, or at some point in your life, you're going

01:06:59.680 to become a father, which is a lot of us.

01:07:01.560 Then I would, I would suggest and recommend that you go follow him on Instagram because

01:07:09.220 he's got some incredible, incredible information and tools and resources and thoughts and perspectives

01:07:15.740 on how we can become better fathers, which I know is a goal for a lot of men.

01:07:18.520 So make sure to connect with him, connect with me, take a screenshot.

01:07:20.880 If you would real quick, before you get done with this podcast, tag Nate, tag myself on Instagram,

01:07:25.840 Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, wherever, TikTok, like we were mentioning earlier and let people

01:07:31.000 know what you're listening to.

01:07:31.860 Cause I feel like if we have something valuable to share, then it's our obligation and responsibility

01:07:36.180 to do it.

01:07:36.760 So please do that.

01:07:37.560 Leave a rating review, check out Nate, uh, check out our exclusive brotherhood, the iron

01:07:42.120 council at order of man.com slash iron council.

01:07:45.880 All right, guys, we'll be back on Friday until then go out there, take action, become the

01:07:51.140 man you are meant to be.

01:07:52.700 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:07:55.460 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

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NATE FEATHERS ｜ Dads Don't Babysit

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