Order of Man - Never Quit

00:00:00.000 Quitting has become all too common and all too popular. And while I certainly agree that there

00:00:05.160 may be a point in time where it may be the right course of action, too many men throw in the towel

00:00:10.960 too soon and limit themselves to minimal results in the process. Learning to stick with projects,

00:00:17.340 tasks, and relationships longer than you may normally do opens up all sorts of opportunities

00:00:23.540 that are reserved for those who show the most perseverance and grit. Today, I have the opportunity

00:00:29.720 to sit down with my friend and former Navy SEAL, J.P. Donnell, to talk about his never quit attitude,

00:00:36.420 where he developed this mentality and how it came to be, even qualifiers for staying and for quitting,

00:00:43.040 and ultimately how you too can develop the same never quit mentality.

00:00:46.820 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your

00:00:52.000 own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily

00:00:57.980 deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is

00:01:05.280 who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself

00:01:10.680 a man. Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler, and I am the host and the founder of

00:01:16.080 this podcast and the movement that is Order of Man. Like I do every week, I want to welcome you here.

00:01:20.440 It is my goal to give you all of the tools and resources and specifically with this podcast,

00:01:25.700 the conversations you need to level up your life as a man to become a more effective, more capable

00:01:32.580 father, husband, business owner, community leader, coach, mentor, friend, whatever capacity of life

00:01:38.220 you're showing up. So we've got this interview show where I'm going to be interviewing today,

00:01:41.740 specifically J.P. Donnell. A lot of you guys are familiar with and know J.P.

00:01:45.640 We've had other incredible men on like Jocko Willink and Grant Cardone and Andy Frisella and

00:01:50.740 Tim Kennedy. The list and the lineup is absolutely incredible of the men who have decided to band with

00:01:56.080 us. And I say band with us because that's what this is all about. This is a movement. This is not

00:02:01.580 all about me. I hope that I am leading the charge effectively, but at the end of the day, it's my goal

00:02:07.280 to enlist millions and millions of men across the planet to more adequately prepare ourselves for what

00:02:14.260 we face as men. So we've got this show. If you aren't familiar, we've got our Wednesday show,

00:02:19.020 which is an ask me anything show. And then of course we've got our Friday field notes,

00:02:23.320 which is you get to hear from me for 20 to 30 or 40 minutes on a particular subject that is on my

00:02:29.860 mind. So we've got a lot going on and I want to encourage you to make sure that you subscribe,

00:02:34.900 that you share the show, also that you leave a rating and review. This is something I don't ask for a

00:02:39.280 whole lot, but it goes a very, very long way in promoting the visibility of the order and this

00:02:45.120 movement and what we're doing here. So please again, leave a rating and review guys as a quick

00:02:50.560 announcement before we get into the rest of the discussion. And of course my conversation with JP,

00:02:55.680 I do want to let you know about my friends and the show sponsors origin main. Now earlier last week,

00:03:04.240 I believe it was mid last week. They just released their brand new energy and cognitive enhancement

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00:03:28.720 and the other is tropic thunder. I believe you got to love their, their marketing in their names.

00:03:34.360 They do a good job. Of course, partnered up with, uh, with Jocko, check it out at origin.

00:03:38.920 Maine is in the state main origin, main.com and use the code order or D E R at checkout. And you'll

00:03:44.840 get a discount there on discipline. Go, uh, the joint warfare, the super krill, the mulk discipline,

00:03:50.220 everything else I talk about, including their rash guards and geese. But for now I want to promote

00:03:55.780 discipline go just released it. I think you'll like it as well. That's it. That's it by way

00:04:00.700 of announcements. Uh, as I mentioned earlier, I get to sit down today or did already sit down with,

00:04:05.560 I should say, and release to you, my conversation with JP Donnell. Uh, we were at origins immersion

00:04:10.160 camp several weeks ago and had a very, very powerful conversation after his grudge match.

00:04:16.820 We'll call it with Pete Roberts, which we'll get to in the discussion. You'll hear a little bit about

00:04:21.440 that and why they did it. Uh, but JP is a former Navy SEAL. He served with task unit bruiser. A lot

00:04:27.480 of you guys are familiar with, uh, with Jocko Willink and of course, Leif Babin and under their

00:04:32.080 command, he served as an elite SEAL sniper in one of the deadliest regions of Iraq in 2006. In fact,

00:04:40.020 his counterpart, most of, you know, uh, was Navy SEAL, Chris Kyle. Uh, he also served as a training

00:04:45.640 instructor at Naval Special Warfare Group, where he was responsible for developing and creating,

00:04:52.340 um, special operations, urban combat and close quarter training. And really with the intention

00:04:57.720 of better preparing SEAL units for, for the battlefield that he had been on. Uh, but JP

00:05:02.360 has become a friend. He's become a mentor and certainly he's somebody I'm inspired by and

00:05:06.500 motivated by every single day. Sit back, relax, enjoy the conversation with JP.

00:05:13.200 JP, what's up, brother?

00:05:14.100 What's going on, Ryan? Glad to be here with you. Absolutely.

00:05:16.500 I was telling Jocko the other day, we're making this a, uh, an annual occurrence. It's like a,

00:05:20.180 like an annual tradition. We just do podcasts every year, once a year.

00:05:23.140 That sounds good. How you feeling? I'm good, man. I'm feeling good.

00:05:26.480 I'm not feeling as good as you sound like you are. I'm sore, man.

00:05:30.520 Oh, well yeah. I mean, I'm sore for sure. It's been a long week of jujitsu and that little, uh,

00:05:37.400 what would you call that with Pete? Not a death match. Of course.

00:05:41.140 Grudge match or.

00:05:41.880 It wasn't a grudge. We don't have grudges.

00:05:43.220 That's true. That's my brother. You know what I mean? Um, but I guess according to what

00:05:47.300 Jocko put on social media to hype it up, grudge match. Is that what he says? People called it a

00:05:52.300 grudge match, a death match. I felt like I was going to die a couple of times. Yeah, man. He's so

00:05:57.220 strong. He's strong. He's strong. But what's interesting about Pete is he doesn't, he doesn't

00:06:02.440 use his strength the way you think he would use his strength. Exactly. Cause he's, when he's,

00:06:07.020 when he's rolling, he's really casual, really comfortable. And then all of a sudden it's like,

00:06:11.640 you're on your back. What just happened there? Yeah. How's your, what'd you, what'd you do?

00:06:16.280 You hurt your elbow and your shoulder or what did you end up doing? On the second sweep separated my

00:06:20.960 left shoulder. And then on the third sweep, I separated my right shoulder. And then I don't

00:06:25.520 know what other sweep it was, but my right shoulder separated and my right elbow separated, uh, at the

00:06:31.320 same time on one of them. And Pete was, Pete actually felt them. He felt. Yeah. Cause he

00:06:35.980 stopped. He's like, are you okay? I'm like, yeah, let's just go. So it's all right. It's good.

00:06:40.920 Are those, uh, are those reoccurring injuries or those new things? No, they're, they're just old

00:06:45.440 injuries from the military. Yeah. Just wear and tear. But I hadn't had anything like that happen

00:06:49.380 years. Is that right? Yeah. Like since I was in the military back in. Yeah. And you've been

00:06:54.360 training jujitsu. I mean, you, you, you've been in MMA or wrestling or MMA. No, no. Yeah. Okay. So a lot of

00:07:01.140 people are like, Oh, JP wrestled. Yeah. I wrestled in junior high. Like I'm not like a wrestler.

00:07:05.760 Okay. Right. Some of the guys here, they're like, yeah, I wrestled in college. I'm like, Oh,

00:07:09.060 okay. Well I'm about to go flying. I know what's about to happen. Yeah. No, I wrestled a little

00:07:13.420 bit in junior high. Um, like one, one year in high school. Okay. Yeah. Two, like one and a half

00:07:18.280 years in high school. Um, yeah, I wasn't a very good wrestler. I just enjoyed wrestling and it was a

00:07:23.960 tough sport. My dad got us into it. We really liked it. I think it's the toughest sport as,

00:07:28.420 as a young man that you could probably do. Like I did football. I did baseball. Uh, I played

00:07:35.980 basketball until I got cut, but I went and did wrestling. Dude, that was, that was the hardest

00:07:41.240 sport by far for me. Yeah. Wrestling was really tough. I did kickboxing. Um, and that was, that

00:07:48.160 was like hardcore, like American style kickboxing. Our, our instructor was one of the instructors

00:07:54.100 and coaches for Dennis Alexio. And at the time he was the, uh, heavyweight world champion.

00:07:59.880 Right. And so that was like legit, like hardcore, like kickboxing. My, myself and my sister did

00:08:07.960 that. Um, and we really liked that. I did swim team as well. Swim team was legit.

00:08:13.880 Yeah. That'd be pretty intense.

00:08:14.780 My senior year in high school, I did water polo.

00:08:17.100 Really?

00:08:17.480 That was tough. That was really tough. I wish I would have started on my freshman year

00:08:22.000 and done it all the way through. Cause I really liked, really liked a water polo.

00:08:26.860 What'd you like about it?

00:08:28.060 It was just tough. It was like wrestling and swim team combined. Like guys are actually like,

00:08:31.980 you're pulling on guys. Like you guys are like pushing guys under water.

00:08:35.620 Yeah. The water element, like the water, like you're fighting over that ball and you're pulling

00:08:40.680 guys back. I mean, there's, there's rules. I mean, but yeah, there's nothing that stops you

00:08:45.000 from pulling somebody down underwater. You swim over them, you get the ball, then you're pat.

00:08:50.480 But it's legit. You're going nonstop. And I have a lot, you know, a lot of really good

00:08:55.120 friends. Um, my buddy, uh, we called him Scooter, but my buddy, Justin Wendell from back

00:08:59.600 home, we played water polo. And my brother, Corey was on this water polo team. And the

00:09:04.440 three of us were just wrecking team.

00:09:06.920 That's something you, that's not what you would traditionally think of as a high school

00:09:11.080 sport.

00:09:11.660 Yeah.

00:09:12.100 Like you think of basketball, baseball, football, maybe some track and field and wrestling.

00:09:16.160 That's what I think of. Lacrosse is becoming more popular too.

00:09:19.200 I would have loved to have done lacrosse. I think it's a really cool sport. It is a cool

00:09:23.020 sport. We don't, we didn't really have it. So I just moved up here to Maine and we didn't

00:09:26.880 really have, I think it was kind of making its way into Southern Utah, uh, as, as we were

00:09:31.660 leaving, but I know it's big here in Maine.

00:09:33.840 Yeah. Yeah. Uh, Pete, didn't he play at a high level lacrosse or is that just high school?

00:09:38.740 Uh, no, he played collegiate football.

00:09:40.340 Yeah.

00:09:40.600 Yeah.

00:09:40.820 Yeah. That's right.

00:09:41.580 Yeah. It's pretty intense. Um, I was actually impressed with, so you hurt your shoulder or

00:09:47.020 your elbow or whatever. Um, I was impressed cause Pete was like, I heard him, I was kind

00:09:52.240 of in the back. I couldn't exactly hear what you guys were saying to each other, whispering

00:09:55.080 sweet nothings into each other's ears. You're rolling around, but I heard him say, well, dude,

00:09:59.520 you're all right. Or something like that. And you're like, yeah, yeah, I'm good. I was impressed

00:10:03.320 knowing now that you separated your shoulder and your elbow that you kept going. Is that

00:10:09.620 your, so, I mean, I know where you were doing it for a good cause and I want to talk about

00:10:14.120 that for sure, but I think there's more to it cause it would be easy to say, no, I tap

00:10:19.580 right. I'm out because you have that, that problem.

00:10:22.180 Yeah, it would be easy, but I mean, that's just, I don't have like, you have to know when

00:10:28.380 there are times to stop. Sure. But I think people take that route too often. And you

00:10:34.760 know, that's just, just years of being in the SEAL teams. And I mean, even before that,

00:10:39.660 that's the way I was raised by my, my dad, my grandparents, my mom, my grandmothers, aunts

00:10:44.240 and uncles, like you're not going to take the easy way out. You're not going to just stop

00:10:48.080 because something's difficult or you think you're in pain or hurt. You know, I just, that's

00:10:54.380 just not who I am. I am, you know, and there's times where there's things where I, yeah,

00:10:57.960 I am like, Hey, I done.

00:11:00.000 What would, what would determine that? Like, what would, what, what would you actually say?

00:11:03.560 No, I'm, I'm done. And I'm not talking about necessarily an injury or something like that.

00:11:07.240 Just like what criteria would you use?

00:11:12.040 That's a really good question that I'd have to really think about. Like, honestly, maybe

00:11:15.760 about the end of the podcast, I'll be like, Hey, yeah, for sure. I know that I really liked

00:11:20.460 that question because I don't think that there's any one set thing out there that applies

00:11:27.660 to all situations. Sure. Now that competition with, with Pete, um, I mean, probably if I broke

00:11:34.580 something, I probably would have stopped. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe like how, how bad a pain

00:11:39.480 would have been. I mean, my shoulder and elbow that hurt, but the adrenaline was pumping and

00:11:43.600 it's a competition. I think that's how men should be right. Like, Oh, you have something

00:11:48.520 happened to you. You don't stop. You keep going. I think it's good for men. Yes. And I, the challenge

00:11:53.560 was 10 minutes, right? 10 minutes to either Pete had to sweep me Superman style up over

00:11:59.600 his head once or seven sweeps within 10 minutes, which people don't understand. That's very

00:12:05.560 difficult. Oh, no doubt. Very difficult. Especially you. You're a big guy, solid base. Like that's

00:12:10.000 not going to be easy. Yeah. I have a decent base. Right. And yes, you know, pizza, a high

00:12:14.860 level black belt has competed at the very high level, but that's still, that's a, that's a

00:12:18.460 big tempo to do. And it came down to the wire. I mean, he got, he had, he wanted

00:12:24.500 that so bad. Oh, he almost had it. And he had six sweeps right around the eight

00:12:29.980 minute mark. It was just over two minutes that I had to like fight off to not get

00:12:34.800 that sweep. And you guys even stood up and then right at the end, I think he, what

00:12:38.500 saved me is I was actually, I was actually, Oh yeah, he did. But I was actually able to

00:12:42.180 pass his guard. Oh, that's right. I got side control. That's right. I almost passed to his

00:12:46.120 right side once. That's right. And he had this little hook, a little sneaky hook

00:12:49.320 in there, went back and then I was able to pass to his left. Right. And then I

00:12:54.240 got that and then he rolled, I took his back and he kept trying to roll me that

00:12:59.240 way. We ended up standing up, grab, he got his grips and then he went to pull

00:13:05.840 guard for that one final. Right. He really laid into that. I sprawled so hard on

00:13:10.780 that. I just was like, there's, you know, but the thing Pete and I were laughing

00:13:15.520 about it, he said, how awesome would it have been if I would have done one last

00:13:19.040 sweep or the over the head sweep right as the time went down, but it didn't count

00:13:24.680 because with the sweeps, you have to do it and then you have to maintain. Right. And

00:13:29.440 then he's like, how awesome would that have been? I'm like, that would have been

00:13:32.220 really cool. Yeah, I guess. I'm like, no, I think it was cooler that he didn't. Yeah.

00:13:37.260 I just like, I could tell you just locked down everything I had for that. It was

00:13:42.500 really cool. My coach, Matt Waltman, who's up here and another one of the black

00:13:46.020 belts from our gym, Christian. He, um, I could hear him the whole time.

00:13:49.820 Couldn't they really go to me? Yeah. And if you watch that video, you see both of

00:13:53.880 them. Like when I get that side control and they're just like, they're stuck.

00:13:58.180 Yeah. The funniest thing was listening to Matt. I think, I think you were going to

00:14:02.180 pass his guard. He's like, it's a trap. Yeah. And I fell into the trap. And then

00:14:07.120 towards the end, which was really cool about the last minute, Mark is all I could hear

00:14:11.100 him say was, you're not tired. That's all he was coaching was you're not tired.

00:14:16.440 You're not because he knew I was exhausted. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember him, hearing him

00:14:21.060 say that and it naturally started to creep in. Like what I wanted to say was, you

00:14:26.820 don't understand. I am tired. Sure. But then I stopped that and I got mad that I

00:14:33.180 even stopped. That's that self-talk, right? Yeah. I already, I was so mad that I started

00:14:37.440 to think that way. And I was like, yeah, I'm not tired. And he said, I like, after

00:14:41.620 like the second or third time of him saying it, he said, like, I just took this deep

00:14:44.740 breath. I put my shoulders back and I just blinked. And I was like, yep. You

00:14:48.120 know, I just kept trying to go. And, you know, I was thinking about that and it was

00:14:53.640 cool. You know, it's awesome when you have your, your close friends who are your

00:14:57.020 coaches, you know, pushing you through stuff like that. But I was thinking about how many

00:15:02.260 times in life have I just allowed just BS to creep in and I didn't challenge it

00:15:09.000 myself. Right. And I didn't say, no, actually you're not tired or you're getting

00:15:16.220 complacent or, you know, like how many times do we allow that to happen in our

00:15:19.820 lives as men? You know, we allow it to happen in our marriages. We allow it to

00:15:22.800 happen as, as fathers with our kids and, you know, men in our communities and our

00:15:27.420 neighborhoods and our business. And so many times we do that. And I, that's why

00:15:31.760 I really like what you guys have going on. And it's, we need more of that as

00:15:36.040 just a community of men to hold each other accountable. Oh, no doubt. You

00:15:39.880 know, I spoke at a, um, with, you know, I work for Jocko and Leif with

00:15:44.380 Echelon Front. I'm one of their leadership instructors and speakers. And I

00:15:48.200 spoke at an event and I was really excited to do this event. I was actually

00:15:51.980 home on leave when, uh, home on leave. I don't take leave. I'm not in the

00:15:55.560 military anymore. I was, I was in Sacramento. That's funny. It's like so

00:15:59.660 conditioned that you're just like, use those terms. I went back back home to

00:16:06.560 spend time with my grandmother, Amanda and the kids. We all flew out there and I

00:16:11.460 had a client call. And so she has no service or internet at her property. It's

00:16:16.160 kind of nice. Yeah, for sure. That's nice. Yeah. It's up in Northern California,

00:16:19.960 five acres in the middle of foothills. And so I had to go up to the top of this

00:16:23.260 hill to get service, to do this call for the client. I was so excited. And I

00:16:27.120 went back and I told my grandmother about it. I'm like, I can't wait to do

00:16:29.340 this event, blah, blah, blah. And she was like, okay. You know, I was like, I

00:16:33.460 told her why she was all fired up too. It was for a private Christian school in

00:16:38.120 Alabama. And I was speaking to all the men. Oh yeah. All the fathers. Wow. Of

00:16:44.600 the children, of the students. Sure. Before they started the school year. And

00:16:49.040 they are very into having this covenant of, of just holding each other. Like

00:16:57.140 their, their covenant to, that they have laid out is very distinct and they, it's

00:17:03.540 very important to them. Yeah. And they're telling them like, Hey, you know, we

00:17:06.120 hold, we hold other men accountable and we don't believe in just dropping off

00:17:10.480 your kids at school. And the, you know, we're, we're part of the kids education and

00:17:14.940 helping teach and we help the teachers and the, Hey, if you know, JP's kids are

00:17:19.380 hanging out with the Micklers and you know, my kids are misbehaving. I expect

00:17:24.500 you to discipline them. Right. And like do the same that you would do to your kids.

00:17:28.880 Right. You're going to spank your kids. You can spank my kids. You put your kids in

00:17:31.900 the corner. You put my kids in the corner. And when they're telling me all this

00:17:35.560 stuff, I was like, Oh yes, I love it because that's how it should be. And I think

00:17:40.920 that I don't, well, I can't say that I know, but I would, I would like to say, I

00:17:45.820 know that is a big issue in our society today is there's no accountability. Men

00:17:51.780 don't hold each other accountable. Women don't hold each other accountable and

00:17:56.140 we're not holding our spouses accountable back and forth. And guess what? The kids

00:17:59.460 see, the kids see lack of accountability and they get to go do whatever they want.

00:18:03.600 And I want to make it very clear. When I say this stuff, guys and girls that

00:18:07.060 listen to this, I am not perfect. I legitimately struggle with this every

00:18:12.720 day. My wife and I were in an argument last night over the phone. You know, I

00:18:16.180 left the campfire session. We're up at the cafeteria, went down the cabin and we

00:18:20.020 sat on the phone for 45 minutes. And you know why? It was because my lack of

00:18:24.380 proper communication with her and also her lack of proper communication with me.

00:18:29.740 It goes both ways.

00:18:30.240 Oh yeah, absolutely. And it was just back and forth, back and forth. But it's just,

00:18:33.880 it was really cool. Like what I was able to do with Pete. One, we raised a bunch of

00:18:39.140 money for a great charity that we'll talk about later. And two, I've watched that video

00:18:45.100 and thought about how does that relate to my life? You know, like, yeah, it was a tough

00:18:50.400 10 minutes against a really good black belt. If there would have been an actual, let me make

00:18:55.900 this very clear. If that would have been an actual jujitsu match, he would have killed

00:19:01.260 me. Oh, no doubt. Would have killed me, but he wasn't going for submissions. You know what

00:19:06.780 I mean? Like, so I want to make that very clear to people. Right. You know, it was, we

00:19:11.480 set these parameters, you know, and we stuck to them, but it made me dig deep. I had to

00:19:17.340 dig deep. I mean, I got up off the mat, like driving on the mat and got up off. And you know,

00:19:22.780 a couple of things that really came clear to me was you can always go farther than you think

00:19:28.360 you can. You need accountability. You need people that are going to push you, you know?

00:19:33.320 And that's why we love the gym that we're at. That's why we love the people. Like I love

00:19:37.140 my coach and his wife and Christian and his wife and all the other people from my gym that

00:19:41.180 are here because we always push each other always. And they were pushing me in a good

00:19:47.040 direction, telling me like, Hey, you're not tired or hate. That's a trap. Yeah. Yeah. What

00:19:52.000 if you, you know, why do we not do that to our friends and family? Like, Hey, that's a

00:19:56.080 trap. No, do not go. You should not be doing that. I think to answer that question, I think

00:20:01.460 the problem is, is that we live in this, this weird, strange time where I just, I don't want

00:20:07.100 to hurt your feelings. Right. So I can't tell you what needs to be said because heaven forbid

00:20:12.800 you, your, your feel bads get hurt. You know what I mean? So, um, yeah, I would agree with

00:20:17.500 that a hundred percent because I am like that. I'm a people pleaser. I don't like really. Yeah.

00:20:22.320 I don't, I don't like confrontation. I would rather everyone to like me and be liked. And

00:20:28.140 I realized, well, that's, that's not what's needed. Yeah. That's a good point about what's

00:20:33.340 needed, right. Versus what, what you want to do, what feels good. Uh, in fact, as I was

00:20:39.320 talking with Jocko a couple of days ago, I asked him what it means to be a man. And he

00:20:43.720 says, a man does what he's supposed to do. That's it. And then he said, and everybody knows

00:20:49.520 what they're supposed to do. Yes. And I think that's the distinction you're making

00:20:52.920 right now is there's the things that make us feel good, but those aren't always in alignment

00:20:58.000 with the things that we should be doing. Sometimes they are, but they're not always in alignment.

00:21:02.340 You still have to do the thing, even if it's not comfortable or it doesn't feel right or

00:21:06.680 good, I should say. Yeah. Well, you're, you're correct. How does, um, how did in the, in the

00:21:11.860 SEAL teams, how do they instill that upon you? And now I know it's probably weeded out

00:21:20.280 through the process. The guys who don't, who don't have that never quit attitude, they

00:21:24.160 end up quitting, right? So the whole process is that, but I'm sure even still you have these

00:21:29.220 guys who make it through buds, make it through training, get far enough along the track and

00:21:33.560 they haven't weeded themselves out. There's still probably some conditioning and things that

00:21:37.900 need to go into that. I imagine. Yeah. It's through our training, our training, um, cycles

00:21:43.060 are insane. Like we push guys past their limits, past what they think they can do, allow them

00:21:50.900 to fail. And you know, kind of sometimes we praise failure in training. Like you make a

00:21:56.740 wrong decision, you make a wrong call. Hey man, that was awesome that you stepped up and made

00:22:03.520 that call. However, this isn't why it was a right call. Right. And then we actually

00:22:07.880 talk about it and like learn and think through these situations and scenarios. And maybe we

00:22:15.520 put you in a different position of leadership, or maybe we pull you from the training and

00:22:18.540 allow you to sit up in the catwalk and watch the runs going through. And it's crazy. You

00:22:22.840 can take a brand new guy that's been struggling. You take them out of the training for the close

00:22:27.280 quarters combat training that we do. Right. So it's basically, if you're going to take

00:22:29.880 down like a big building with a lot of different rooms, you have that building, you cut off the

00:22:34.380 roof and you have these catwalks up in them. Right. Like you, so you can walk around and look

00:22:37.720 down. Right. Yeah. Look at the little rat maze. Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah, exactly. So you take

00:22:42.020 these guys out of there and you put them up in the rafters with the instructors and they're

00:22:45.860 looking around and they're like, why isn't that guy clearing that door? Why isn't he doing this?

00:22:49.640 You're like, good question. And you're like, you literally just made the same mistakes last run.

00:22:53.940 They're detached. Emotional detachment or the stress, chaos? Everything. They're not stressed.

00:23:02.820 Yeah. It's legitimate, complete detachment. Right. Their heart rate's not elevated. They

00:23:08.440 don't, they don't feel the pressure of us watching them from above. They're not like lining up to go

00:23:13.720 into a room and do a live fire. You know, they're not shooting the rifle right next to their buddy's

00:23:17.460 head. They're not, you know, they don't have the potential of shooting somebody else because

00:23:21.480 we do a lot of live fire training. You have to. Yeah. And so if, if you're doing live

00:23:26.200 fire training and you're getting, you're entering a room and somebody else is entering from another

00:23:29.800 door into that same room and you don't have the, I mean, there's been times where guys

00:23:33.260 are getting ready to do it and we're like letting them see what they're about to do and our hands

00:23:38.160 like right underneath the rifle and the, or getting ready to grab the back of them. They get

00:23:42.000 ready to enter in on their own buddies and we're grabbing the rifle. We're pushing it up and

00:23:46.020 we're pulling them back and blowing the whistle so that they can feel that. Right. And it's

00:23:49.800 like you, you could have shot your buddy and they're just like, Oh, like just standing

00:23:56.220 there in the doorway. I didn't realize that. Yeah. Yeah. Now you're, you're, you're erring

00:23:59.820 on that side of, but you have to ride that. Right. You have to let guys see it. And then

00:24:04.740 we'll let them do runs and see munition and we just let them do whatever. What is that?

00:24:08.540 Is that lasers or is that? No, it's munition. It's a, it's like a dummy rub around or something.

00:24:12.960 It's a live round with a plastic tip with like a nail polish or no lipstick. It's lipstick,

00:24:20.160 right? It's that they're called like marking rounds, right? So it hits you and it has like

00:24:23.640 the little like pink or blue. Right. So you know, okay. Boom. And they'll, they'll shoot

00:24:28.700 their own guys and they're like, Holy cow. Yeah. And so we put guys in crazy hard scenarios

00:24:35.640 in training where they fail. They have their humility, you know, they eat their little humble

00:24:40.940 pie and then you kind of rebuild them. Yeah. And then you, but you give them wins and you

00:24:46.400 help them learn how to win. You help them push deeper. And when they think that they can't

00:24:51.460 actually push through this, you're like, no, actually you can by doing this and you give

00:24:55.300 them guidance from an outside perspective. They go conduct the training and they're like,

00:25:00.540 Oh, victory is possible. Yeah. And so you let them taste that victory. And that's what we

00:25:05.340 do at National On Front with companies. And that's what I do for the, uh, the field training

00:25:09.560 exercises that we do. It's the same thing we did in SEAL teams. We do for, for clients.

00:25:13.920 Yeah. I've seen it. I've seen it on Instagram where I've seen video and stuff.

00:25:16.400 Yeah. It's the same thing. You put them in these really hard scenarios and where they're

00:25:21.240 getting crushed. And as the day of training goes on, they actually see, Oh, if I do this,

00:25:26.540 this happens. And we tie it into their business after every run.

00:25:30.080 Yeah. That's what I was going to ask is how does, because obviously not everybody listening

00:25:33.640 to this is a SEAL or going to join the teams. Yeah. So how do you simulate detachment in a

00:25:42.100 civilian environment with maybe, like you said, an argument with your wife or a difficult project

00:25:48.640 or task at work? Some of these like real life civilian scenarios that people are going to deal

00:25:52.680 with. So you have to be aware that it's happening. You have to be aware of what your red flags are.

00:25:57.300 What are your indicators? Now, when we're doing hands-on scenario-based training, it's easy for us to

00:26:01.160 come up and be like, Hey, get off your gun and lead. Why are you shooting? Yeah, I get it. It's

00:26:07.880 a lot of fun, but is that your job to be a shooter right now? No, your job is to be a leader. Direct,

00:26:12.720 right? Yeah. And step back, get off the gun. Now, obviously there's a media threat. Somebody

00:26:16.360 comes around the corner with a gun, get on your gun and shoot. But as soon as you're done with that,

00:26:20.420 you should be off your gun, looking around. Hey, you have three guys over here with guns. Guess what?

00:26:24.720 Go stand behind them. Let them shoot. So you can kind of look around like a quarterback, right?

00:26:29.180 Sure. Sure. The quarterback is behind his, his line of guys that are protecting him.

00:26:33.600 Reading the field. So he can read, he can look around. Everyone's down low. He's standing up

00:26:38.240 tall. It's the same thing. You need to be able to detach, take the high ground. So in a relationship

00:26:44.500 by taking the high ground, that's actually not responding right away to a coworker or a peer or

00:26:51.040 your boss or your spouse or your kids when you're in an emotional state. You have to recognize when you are

00:26:58.140 emotional. For me, I grew up with a speech impediment. I was in speech therapy. I'm pretty

00:27:05.400 sure I say this on every podcast I've been on, or maybe it's every time I speak. I grew up with a

00:27:08.820 speech impediment. I didn't actually know that. So yeah. So I mix up my words. I stutter sometimes.

00:27:13.620 I actually make up words, which is awesome. I want to know some of these JP-isms.

00:27:18.960 I want to hear some of these. I'll listen for them.

00:27:22.240 Yeah. What's one of them that I always say?

00:27:25.660 Irregardless is one a lot of people say.

00:27:27.720 Recognization.

00:27:28.300 Oh yeah. Okay.

00:27:29.160 And people are like, yeah, yeah. And I'm like-

00:27:30.880 That's not a word.

00:27:31.700 Yeah. You know, I didn't realize it wasn't a word until Leif Babin. We're speaking in front of a

00:27:39.520 client. We're doing a full day event and we take a break. You know, Leif is very direct.

00:27:45.180 Oh yeah.

00:27:45.700 Which I love. I've learned so much from him by just, I'm like, I just got to be like Leif. If I could be

00:27:50.920 more direct, that would probably eliminate a lot of the problems in my life instead of dancing

00:27:54.660 around stuff. And we're on a break in Leif. It's like, hey JP, you keep saying

00:27:59.500 recognition? That's not a word. I'm like, oh. He's like, it's recognition.

00:28:07.380 Right.

00:28:08.540 Oh, okay. Cool.

00:28:09.980 So what do I say? Recognization.

00:28:12.460 Of course, you say it right away. You say the same thing again.

00:28:15.540 Or he said, you know, he's like, you need to stop saying like, you'll say something like,

00:28:20.200 right?

00:28:21.200 Oh yeah.

00:28:21.980 I'm really bad at that.

00:28:23.020 That's a lot of, that's a crutch. A lot of people have.

00:28:24.780 Oh, it was so hard. And I think I've broken that. I think. And anyways, it was really funny.

00:28:30.500 He gave me that instant feedback, which was really cool. Kind of go back to what we were

00:28:34.820 talking about. Like what Matt and Christian were doing while I was doing that. They're giving me

00:28:37.900 that instant feedback. That's a trap. Don't do that. You're not tired. We get a break from

00:28:42.660 speaking. Leif comes up to me. He's like, hey, that's not a real world. That's not a real

00:28:47.700 word. Or, hey, stop saying that. And I have to be aware of that and work on it. It takes

00:28:53.780 time to break that cycle. But the first step, I guess, to your question is you have to be

00:28:58.740 aware. What are your red flags? What do you do? My wife, she gets like this red blotchiness

00:29:06.940 on her chest and neck. Oh, so you can see it. Oh, thank God. Honestly, I mean like, yeah,

00:29:13.220 because I'm obviously doing something or somebody else is doing something that upsets her.

00:29:21.040 I know like, oh, I need to break, break, break away from this and not keep pushing her buttons

00:29:27.520 or not go down this route. And you need to be aware of your tones and how you're speaking

00:29:31.740 to somebody. You know, you have to be aware. You can't, if you're not aware and actually

00:29:38.080 take the time to analyze who you are and how you interact with people, you'll never actually

00:29:44.900 change. You'll just keep doing the same thing over and over and over. And it takes time.

00:29:49.640 You have to be patient. Like it takes a lot of time, you know.

00:29:53.360 And that self-reflection, right? Just thinking about it. I mean, that's why we talk a lot about,

00:29:57.420 and I know you guys do this in the teams and just the military in general, probably a lot

00:30:00.980 of LEOs do this as well as these after action reviews, right? So you're looking at, okay,

00:30:05.320 how did the experience go? What went well? What didn't work out? Where do I need to improve?

00:30:09.740 How can I shore this area of things up? So that's been valuable for, for me. I actually dreaded that

00:30:15.040 in the military, hated it. It wasn't until I got out of the military, I realized that was actually

00:30:19.980 pretty valuable. I should have taken that a little bit more seriously.

00:30:22.640 Oh, all the debriefs?

00:30:23.620 Yes.

00:30:23.900 Yeah. I mean, debriefs, well, you know, what we did in the military, debriefs saved lives.

00:30:29.040 You know, you learn from your mistakes and you pass on those lessons learned to others that are

00:30:34.460 going out in that same area or other units or, you know, your own internal units to help your

00:30:39.860 mission planning for the next mission be much more efficient and effective. And, you know,

00:30:46.020 that's one of the things I was doing when I was doing sales at a financial company is I would,

00:30:50.200 before I would leave, I would do a debrief of that whole day and just a quick little recap. And it

00:30:56.420 really helped me plan the next day to be much more efficient. And I was trying to have my sales

00:31:00.300 guys start to do that as well. And, you know, if you can't sit back and, I mean, because we're all

00:31:07.340 going to have arguments, right? We're going to have arguments with our spouses, our friends,

00:31:10.680 our coworkers and everything.

00:31:12.300 Yeah. It's not time to go away.

00:31:13.400 Yeah. Welcome to life.

00:31:14.380 Right.

00:31:14.580 But if you really want to change and improve who you are, improve that environment that you're in,

00:31:22.580 then you're going to need to be professional enough to actually take the time to evaluate.

00:31:29.080 Right.

00:31:29.340 Okay. Hey, what, what did I do wrong? The first step is going to be taking ownership of it,

00:31:34.120 right? You have to take ownership of everything that you're involved in, you know? And that's the

00:31:39.340 beautiful thing that we learned from Jocko when he was our task unit commander is like,

00:31:43.020 hey, we are going to take ownership of everything that affects our mission, everything that affects

00:31:48.100 our task unit and affects this SEAL team as a whole. All, even like all the other

00:31:53.580 task units that are doing stuff like, no, if it affects SEAL team three, it affects us.

00:31:57.460 Sure.

00:31:57.740 And that was just a different mindset because people naturally want to blame other people.

00:32:02.400 Oh yeah.

00:32:02.760 And it's just like, well, if you don't do this, if you don't do that, no, look at yourself.

00:32:06.500 Not willing to take upon that responsibility of it.

00:32:08.700 Yeah.

00:32:08.840 And, you know, what people fail to, you know, recognize is...

00:32:13.120 Right. You almost said recognition.

00:32:15.680 I stopped myself and I was like, wait, I wouldn't even say that in this sentence.

00:32:19.540 In this scenario.

00:32:19.840 But I had to stop.

00:32:22.160 That's so awesome.

00:32:23.460 What people fail to recognize is just taking ownership. If you say, well, yeah, okay, hey,

00:32:30.900 this is all my fault, blah, blah, blah. If you continue to do that, that's not enough.

00:32:35.100 You need to actually come up with a solution to these problems.

00:32:37.980 Right. So what are you going to do about it?

00:32:39.180 Yeah. What are you going to do about it? And it's like, let's say, if I'm working for

00:32:42.440 you, Ryan, and I keep screwing something up and you're like, hey man, that's my fault.

00:32:45.900 I didn't clearly, you know, explain this to you. And I'm like, yeah, okay. Hey, not a big

00:32:49.620 deal. Like actually, no, that's my fault. But if you just keep taking ownership and you

00:32:54.600 never correct me, and if you never give me guidance and if you never actually discipline

00:32:59.380 me, if that needs to happen, then you're failing. You actually, just because you take

00:33:06.660 ownership doesn't mean that other people aren't responsible for their actions.

00:33:10.300 It's not a full, complete thought or process. I even feel the same way about sorry. You

00:33:16.300 know, people will say sorry, which I appreciate if they genuinely are sorry, I can appreciate

00:33:21.560 an apology. And then they keep doing the same thing over and over again. I'm like, at some

00:33:25.840 point, you're not sorry. Like stop apologizing and fix the behavior. Then you won't have to

00:33:32.120 say sorry again. Yeah. Sorry is not, it's an incomplete process. It's just part of the

00:33:37.440 process. Yeah. If people are really sorry, then they, they don't do that again. Or maybe

00:33:42.420 they, there's, they're actively trying to correct that. To fix it. But if all, if it's, if it's

00:33:47.260 just a, hey man, I'm really sorry about that. And you keep doing it. It's like, okay, well,

00:33:51.060 you're not. It's like when people say, I don't have time. You're not allowed to say

00:33:54.740 that. You actually do have time to do whatever you want in your life. It's just

00:33:58.740 not a priority. That's interesting because as you're talking about this, when

00:34:02.000 you, and I'm hearing you say this is that when you say, I don't have time, you're

00:34:06.260 actually not taking responsibility for your time, for your schedule and your life

00:34:10.400 and agenda and what your priorities are. That's interesting. Instead of saying, I

00:34:14.300 don't have time, say it's not a priority. Yeah. And if you can say that's not a

00:34:19.920 priority, then cool. It's not a priority. Got it. But if you say that and that

00:34:23.860 bothers you, guess what? You need to reprioritize some stuff, you know? And

00:34:28.380 yeah, that's one of the things I, I, I like to tell people when I really try to

00:34:33.980 work on myself and that's Amanda sometimes cause she's like, I don't have time.

00:34:38.160 And I'm like, I just look at site, you know, we'll go through it. There are times

00:34:43.000 where it's like, yeah, you literally don't have time for that because it's not a

00:34:47.120 priority. And so I try to correct that, you know, behavior of what we're saying. I don't

00:34:54.920 even know if that's a correct analogy, behavior of what we're saying. Anyways, somebody a lot

00:34:58.560 smarter than listening will correct me and I appreciate it.

00:35:00.700 I'm sure. No doubt.

00:35:01.020 On social media, please correct me in the comments.

00:35:02.620 Plenty of people will, will correct us. I'm sure of it.

00:35:05.380 That's what I love.

00:35:07.060 We were actually talking about that earlier. It's like, and the things that people correct

00:35:11.340 you on, I'm like, did you understand what I was saying? Well, yeah. Like, then don't worry

00:35:15.080 about it. Like, it's not that big a deal.

00:35:17.480 I know.

00:35:18.280 Or whatever.

00:35:18.960 It's okay.

00:35:19.480 It's part of the deal.

00:35:20.320 Yep. Absolutely.

00:35:21.480 Yeah. It's, uh, it's interesting though, when you're talking about detachment, because

00:35:26.740 if I'm looking at you and your wife, for example, and in some context, I was observing what was

00:35:32.960 going on, it would be easy for me to see it and say, oh, well, JP really ought to be doing

00:35:37.960 these things. But we're in, when we're in the heat of the moment, we had a guy in our, in our

00:35:41.940 iron council, uh, just had a little experience just before we jumped on the podcast where

00:35:45.840 one of our team leaders got, got upset about something. And I could see why he would get

00:35:50.080 upset with another, uh, uh, person in the iron council, but I could also see in his dialogue

00:35:55.600 and communication that he was getting emotional. So it wasn't the fact that he got upset. I

00:36:00.080 think there was maybe some justification for that. It was the emotions that made him respond

00:36:06.780 in a way that he normally would not respond. So really fascinating to see, but it's easy.

00:36:11.280 It's easy for me to look at it and say, here's what's going on. It's infinitely harder to look

00:36:16.300 in the mirror and say, okay, this is something I need to work on for myself.

00:36:21.280 Yeah. That's why we need those coaches and accountability partners and friends.

00:36:25.560 Yeah.

00:36:25.840 There's been a couple of times I've had to have conversations with my buddies. Like they have,

00:36:29.640 they're having issues with their wives and it's really easy for me to be detached and say,

00:36:36.220 Hey bud, you know, and, but when you do that, you have to do it the right way because if

00:36:40.280 you just shut somebody down, if you come in hard on them, you know, they're not going

00:36:45.000 to react well.

00:36:46.140 And you need to make sure that they've in a way, and maybe it isn't express permission.

00:36:50.360 Maybe it's, uh, no, I applied permission.

00:36:53.960 I would, I would agree with you. Get permission. Uh, you know, let's say I was seeing something

00:36:58.620 going on from the outside on with, with your marriage or real close. And that's why I can

00:37:04.560 see it. Right. I know it. Um, you know, I live up here in Maine with you guys and we,

00:37:08.860 you know, we spent our family spent a lot of time, spent a lot of time there. Uh, I would

00:37:14.060 say, Hey Ryan, like let's go grab lunch or dinner. Just boom. We go there. And then when

00:37:20.580 we're having lunch or dinner in person, I'm not going to say this over the phone, but in

00:37:24.940 person, I'm going to say, Hey, you know, I love you brother. Like you're one of our close

00:37:29.040 friends or family. Can I be honest? Can we have a hard conversation? Are you okay with

00:37:33.660 that? And if you're like, yeah, what's up? I'll be like, I don't want to make sure you're

00:37:38.200 okay with that. You need to get that permission because if you're going to be honest with them

00:37:42.600 and tell them what they need to hear, they need to be in a state that they're willing to

00:37:47.160 receive that.

00:37:47.520 But they can accept it.

00:37:48.440 And I, you know, I think I learned that when Amanda and I were going through counseling

00:37:53.540 where it's called a imago, imago dialect. Okay. It's, it's very interesting, but it's

00:37:59.460 you, you say, Hey, can we have a conversation right now? We need to talk instead of just

00:38:05.580 saying, Hey, let's go talk. Hey, can we have a conversation right now? And both parties need

00:38:12.180 to be able to say, yes, I'm ready to have a conversation because if I go sit down with

00:38:17.080 you and you, I mean, you know, you're having problems with your marriage or there's other

00:38:21.120 stuff going on or you're frustrated. And I say, Hey man, we need to have a hard conversation.

00:38:25.240 Are you good with that? And if you are, you say yes. And if you're like, man, I don't

00:38:30.240 want to deal with this right now. I'm sorry. Today's not the day. Cool, man. You need to

00:38:34.840 honor that. Right. And you have to honor that. Yes. You can't be one of those. Well, come

00:38:39.320 on, man. Like we need to talk and you need to do that with your spouse as well. That's a

00:38:43.660 good point because somebody's not ready to talk. What are you going to say? Right. They're

00:38:47.860 not ready to talk. And guess what they're going to do? They're going to shut down

00:38:50.480 or they're going to get super defensive and aggressive, make it worse. They're going to

00:38:55.900 say stuff they don't want to say. And you could potentially damage your relationship. Is it

00:39:00.060 worth it? Gents, I know we're knee deep in a great conversation, but I've got to hit the

00:39:05.380 pause button real quick to tell you about a resource that I think you're really going to

00:39:08.480 want to know about. If you're ready to take your life to the next level, it's called the

00:39:12.140 iron council. Most of you are familiar with, uh, to some degree at this point, but inside

00:39:17.620 you'll band with 500 plus like-minded high achieving men who are going to help you identify

00:39:22.880 and complete your life's biggest ambitions. And another benefit that I haven't really talked

00:39:28.700 a whole lot about is that there are hundreds and hundreds of experts inside of the council

00:39:32.920 that range from leadership development, fitness and strength, hunting and other hobbies that

00:39:37.820 you would be interested in, uh, an emergency response and preparation, just to name a few.

00:39:42.580 And we're getting these experts very, very involved in the process. So not only you're

00:39:46.900 going to hear from me because I'm in very involved in iron council, uh, you're going to hear from

00:39:50.640 these experts as well that go much deeper into subjects that I'm frankly, not as qualified

00:39:55.800 to talk about. So if you're ready to band with us and tap into these resources and gain some

00:40:00.780 of the camaraderie and accountability that you're looking for in your life as a man, uh, learn

00:40:05.580 more and join us at order of man.com slash iron council. Again, that's order of man.com

00:40:11.700 slash iron council. Check it out. Learn what we're all about. If you have questions, you

00:40:15.740 can shoot me an email, let me know what they are. And, uh, we'll get you introduced to what

00:40:19.340 we're doing inside and how we've been so successful as a, a band of brothers again, order of man.com

00:40:24.420 slash iron council. As always, you can do that after the show for now, let's finish up this

00:40:28.820 conversation with JP. I have a lot of guys that will ask that they'll say things like, you

00:40:35.240 know, how do, how do you deal with, I know what's coming when they say that, how do you deal

00:40:38.580 with someone dot, dot, dot. And usually it's to the effect of somebody who doesn't agree with you

00:40:44.340 on a certain thing or somebody who's doing something stupid and you want to make sure

00:40:48.220 you correct it. I'm like, first you don't deal with it. I don't, I understand what you're trying

00:40:52.580 to say, but like when you're, when you feel like you have to deal with somebody, I think that's the

00:40:58.320 wrong approach and somebody who shut down. I don't, I don't deal with those people because

00:41:04.320 there's nothing I can do or say that would make anything go better. It's only going to get worse

00:41:09.640 in that scenario. But you also bring up and allude to a great point when you're talking about having

00:41:14.860 this, this dialogue and asking permission to have these discussions, that person's not going to say

00:41:20.660 yes to you unless there's a backlog and history of trust and authority and credibility and those

00:41:28.680 types of things as well. I agree. Yeah. So it's, it's addressing these things before anything

00:41:36.680 actually comes up, right? Like I think about, well, Jocko as, as, as a leader with Task Unit Bruiser,

00:41:42.000 when he said something, it wasn't meaningless and it wasn't empty because there was years and years

00:41:48.060 and years of other conversations and other actions and you see who he is. And then when he actually says

00:41:53.660 something or needs to correct you, there's a lot of weight behind those words. It's all the years

00:41:58.760 of everything that has led up to that point. Yes. 100%. You know, last night I was rolling

00:42:03.960 and, um, what was it? Afternoon or evening session? It's all blending together.

00:42:09.740 I know. Uh, you know, cause the injury, like with me hurt myself with doing that match against Pete,

00:42:16.840 Alexei was like, Hey, JP, no, no rolling. And I'm like, okay. But I was sitting on the mats and I,

00:42:22.700 I went up to, to watch the class. Cause they're like, Alexei had to deco. We're like, Hey,

00:42:28.340 come to the black belt, brown belt sessions for the breakout. So you don't get hurt wrong with

00:42:32.120 the blue belt. Just come watch our classes, take videos, notes, whatever. So I was doing that.

00:42:36.560 I was sitting and a brown belt came up to me. It's like, Hey, do you want to roll lightly?

00:42:41.640 He knew I was hurt, right? He's like, Hey, you just want to move. Alexei comes in. He goes,

00:42:45.020 no, do not ask JP that because he will say yes. He knows you. Dang it. I was like,

00:42:51.660 but what if I just move lightly? And so, no. And then a black belt comes up to me. He's like,

00:42:55.860 Hey, you want to roll lightly? Alexei wasn't there. I'm like, yeah, let's just move. Right.

00:42:59.560 And then he, he knew the deal. Yeah. And we were just moving as something started her. I was like,

00:43:04.040 Hey, I can't do that or whatever. And we're just moving, got a good sweat in. And the more I moved,

00:43:08.260 the more warm I got, I was like, Oh, I feel good. I can actually, okay, I'm doing good.

00:43:12.060 But I had my ego checked the whole time. I wasn't, I'm like, Hey, I'm going against black belts.

00:43:17.680 Come on. You know what I mean? These guys are playing with me, allowing me to move and all this

00:43:22.620 stuff. And so we worked through this stuff and Alexei comes up. He's like, Matt, Matt,

00:43:27.400 telling my coach, he's like, JP's rolling. We told him not to roll. I can hear them, right?

00:43:31.960 While I'm rolling. And Matt goes, the only person that could get JP not to roll is Jocko.

00:43:38.460 He goes, it doesn't matter if his wife was here. If I go tell him not to roll. If you tell him not

00:43:43.620 to roll, if Jocko came out here and said, JP, no more rolling. He's like, JP would stand up at

00:43:49.460 attention, say, Roger that sir, put on a slip flops and sit on the side because of that background

00:43:55.940 in history. Right. Right. And it's not that I don't respect Alexei or Dodeco or my coach,

00:44:01.520 obviously. But because to your point, I have such a long, long history with Jocko. And I know that

00:44:11.900 Jocko knows me probably better than I know myself most of the time because of just his level of

00:44:17.820 intelligence, his ability to detach and assess. And just he, he's like, this has all, he has like,

00:44:23.640 I think of Jocko like a, like a filing cabinet. Right. And for every person that's in his life,

00:44:29.080 he has a file and for them in there, there's all these little files that he just, boom,

00:44:33.360 he just knows all this information. And so Jocko knows me, right? Like he knew I was going to get

00:44:38.880 hurt rolling against Pete. We all knew that Pete's a very powerful guy. And for me to stop sweeps,

00:44:44.380 I'm going to probably end up hurting myself, but he also knows what I'm made of. And he knows that

00:44:49.220 I'll just keep going and I'll keep going. And the fact that we were raising money for mama Lee,

00:44:53.180 like there was nothing that was going to stop me. I would have had to have broken a bone,

00:44:57.980 like out of the skin or been unconscious. Like he just knows that. Now we were joking about that

00:45:03.200 afterwards. He's like, bro, I knew you weren't going to stop out there. Jocko said that. Yeah.

00:45:07.800 That's funny. And, um, it was just, you know, it was just funny. Like we were laughing cause

00:45:12.720 they're like, Jocko, JP's hurt. You take care of him. And Jocko told them, I guess like it was right

00:45:18.220 after he's like, JP will be okay. He might need some mice. Did you, when you got off the mat,

00:45:24.960 you, you left pretty quick. Did you go outside and like puke or I thought I was,

00:45:29.760 I thought I was going to puke. That's what it looked like. I'm like,

00:45:31.860 he's making a beeline to that door. Like he's going to puke. Well,

00:45:33.840 I didn't want to throw up in front of everybody. I wouldn't have cared. Like

00:45:37.500 I'll peak in front of whoever I just put out for 10 minutes. Great. Um,

00:45:42.020 but my, I didn't want to throw up on the mat because we're getting ready to do the

00:45:45.100 session. Like, Oh, welcome to, welcome to immersion. We're going to roll around and we got

00:45:49.140 to clean this. So I went outside dry heaved and I was like, all right, I'm good.

00:45:54.960 I came back and Alexa, it was like fatted me with, yeah, I saw that. Um, which I

00:45:59.080 thought was so cool. Just, just the level of just interaction that we have out here

00:46:04.800 with these black belts. It's amazing. What was interesting to me is like, so let's

00:46:08.980 take that scenario with Alexa. I think a lot of the times what guys believe is that

00:46:12.900 when you have a strong leader, it's somebody who's, who's assertive and takes

00:46:17.320 initiative and is strong and gritty and charismatic. And we think about all these

00:46:22.220 things. And I, and I think a lot of that is true, but one thing that we, as men seem to

00:46:27.620 overlook with regards to leadership is empathy. And as I saw Alexei grabbing your lapels and

00:46:33.440 shaking it out, that was still leadership, but it was also a display of, of affection

00:46:39.920 maybe and, and empathy of like, Hey, you know, like I'm in your corner, I'm supporting

00:46:44.300 you. And that was really interesting to see.

00:46:46.000 I'm really glad that you brought that up and you noticed that that was so meaningful

00:46:51.400 to me. Like that, the whole thing with Pete was awesome. And what we did for Mama Lee's

00:46:56.780 charity and just the support of everybody for Pete and for myself. But when Alexei did

00:47:02.300 that to me, it was like, I felt like I was a part of like his team. Right. And I was a

00:47:10.040 part of his gym and his family. Right. And that's what we've experienced out here. I don't

00:47:13.960 know if you, I felt that like this, this week has been one of the most amazing things for

00:47:19.880 me for this year is just feeling that bond just at a deeper level with everybody getting

00:47:24.880 to hang out and connect and jujitsu and push ourselves physically and mentally every single

00:47:29.720 day. But when, when, when Alexei did that and then the Deco talked to me later that night,

00:47:34.840 I was like, it was really hard to find the words and to, to explain that. Right. And here's

00:47:41.140 something other that I thought was really cool. And I told this to Pete and a couple

00:47:45.720 other guys and like my coach and a couple other guys, they noticed as well. And I thought

00:47:50.780 this was the coolest thing ever when everybody was in that room and we were announcing what

00:47:55.300 was going on. Well, people kind of knew cause Jocko did that first video. I was getting text

00:47:59.680 messages from people and instantly like you got this bro. I'm like, Oh my goodness. Like

00:48:04.520 what is going on? What am I getting myself into? Yeah, exactly. Cause there was side bets

00:48:09.120 and everything. Oh yeah. There's a lot of side bets. Crazy. I even got hateful messages from

00:48:13.360 people on social media that I was disrespecting the black belts and disrespecting jujitsu. I was

00:48:19.120 like, he's my brother. This is, this is a joking match and you're raising money. Yeah. We're literally

00:48:25.520 raising money for a charity right now. Like, cool. And this guy kept coming back and I finally said,

00:48:30.340 like, Hey, come up to camp and talk with Alexei to Deco and Jocko. If you have a problem,

00:48:35.460 like, I was just like, that's all the last thing I said. I'm like, and you're done. I'm done.

00:48:39.360 Block. Like, I'm not going to deal with you, but it was all these things. And so people knew about

00:48:44.360 it. And so I remember like, you know, when I was walking up, I'm going to coach was like, Hey,

00:48:47.680 let's get up there early and kind of like whatever. And there's like a lot of people like, Oh, good

00:48:52.240 luck. Hey man, come on. Like, Hey, my money's on you. Do it for the blue belt and white belts.

00:48:56.600 I'm just kind of joking. There was a couple of guys were just straight mean mugging me.

00:49:00.840 Really?

00:49:01.340 Well, those were Pete's boys.

00:49:02.980 You were at the thing?

00:49:03.580 Yes. And I loved it, but it wasn't like,

00:49:06.340 it wasn't mean spirited or maybe, I don't know. I don't care. I loved it. I don't know. I'll be

00:49:12.080 right. I'm telling you, I loved it because that's loyalty. Yeah. Oh, for sure. And I love that.

00:49:17.060 And it's like, Pete's my boy, but guess what? Those guys have been boys with Pete's way longer.

00:49:22.620 Did you hear what Jocko said about loyalty? Cause he was a ref, but he was coaching too.

00:49:27.780 Oh yeah.

00:49:28.360 Right. So somebody had said something to Jocko. He's like loyalty above everything.

00:49:32.580 I thought that's pretty cool to hear. That's so awesome. But when we're in that room and

00:49:37.700 they're announcing what Pete and I were going to do, I'm just kind of looking around and

00:49:41.440 there's a lot of guys, you know, just like both sides, just smiling. Yeah. And there's

00:49:44.760 like this group that are all kind of in the back that were looking at me like they wanted

00:49:49.280 me to die. Really?

00:49:50.580 And I honestly, like it didn't bother me. Yeah. It actually made me really happy for

00:49:56.280 Pete because I was like, man, those are his boys. Those guys would do anything for him.

00:50:01.280 And you know what? I would be the same way. If somebody had challenged Jocko, I don't care

00:50:05.400 if it's a fun match just like that. Like, Oh, you want to challenge Jocko? Oh bro. You

00:50:12.160 and I are going to have some problems. Like no matter what, even though it was for a fun

00:50:15.740 thing, not like actual problems, but like that is Jocko is my, you know, it's the same

00:50:20.680 thing. You know, if someone was to challenge you to something, I'd be like, dude, you're

00:50:24.220 what? You know, like I, and I really loved seeing that because that was just loyalty to

00:50:30.160 the core. Yeah. And yeah, I like these guys are cool. Like we've been cool with each other

00:50:35.360 all week. We laugh, we joke, you know, it's a good bond. But when it came to someone challenging

00:50:40.340 their brother, there was no, no confusion as to where they stood. And I thought that

00:50:46.720 was really cool. And that is something that we need more of.

00:50:51.180 I think, especially for men, I think we need to have a team and we don't, right? But if

00:50:55.940 you can have a team, whether it's your family or a brotherhood within your gym, or there's

00:51:02.040 a, maybe a hobby that you really enjoy and you've got a team there. Like I think men need

00:51:06.700 to be, and we have for tens, if not hundreds of thousands of years belong to tribes and

00:51:11.560 gangs and brotherhoods and cultures. And that seems to be going away at our own detriment

00:51:18.000 because you lose some of the accountability that you were talking about, the camaraderie,

00:51:22.980 the friendly, healthy competition that pushes you to succeed and excel. It's, it's just not

00:51:30.440 there when you don't have a team behind you to support you.

00:51:32.540 Yeah. 100%. And that's why I knew when Amanda and I moved to Texas that we had to find a

00:51:39.380 gym. Like getting back into training had to be a priority for, it was for myself and then

00:51:46.540 for us as a couple. And then for us as a family, like it had to happen. Like there needed to

00:51:51.080 be that, like just camaraderie of the gym and that environment of pushing. And it gives us

00:51:56.540 something to do together, you know, and it's awesome. And there's times where it's just

00:51:59.740 like, Hey, no, you and Aiden go to the gym or you, Hey, you just go train. Sure. Just

00:52:03.640 get out of the house and go train. I can tell you haven't trained.

00:52:06.500 You're talking about Amanda saying that?

00:52:07.960 Yes.

00:52:08.180 Okay.

00:52:08.440 Oh yeah. She tells me like, just go train.

00:52:10.400 She recognizes that.

00:52:11.300 Yeah, absolutely. She knows I need that. And, um, yeah, it's just, it's so important to,

00:52:17.480 to, to have that because I mean, without it, we're going to be lost.

00:52:23.220 No doubt. So does your family then train jujitsu?

00:52:26.200 Yeah. Amanda does it. The, uh, we have twin daughters. They both do it. And Aiden does

00:52:30.740 that as well. How old are your kids?

00:52:32.320 So, uh, Cora and all our twins, they're seven and a half. They'll be eight in January.

00:52:36.460 Okay.

00:52:37.000 And then Aiden's 13.

00:52:38.520 Okay.

00:52:39.020 Yeah.

00:52:39.360 That's awesome.

00:52:39.840 So second grade and eighth grade right now.

00:52:41.460 It's cool to get them involved in, in just the, the brotherhood, just the sport. Like

00:52:48.660 it's to get them started early. Like I look at it and think, man, I wish I would have

00:52:52.220 started 20 years ago.

00:52:53.280 I know. Yeah. The girls have, you know, a very, you know, a very close core of friends

00:53:00.540 from the gym, you know, and we have really good friends from the gym as well that we hang

00:53:04.620 out with on the weekends or we'll have sleepovers and we'll have the girls. And these are all

00:53:08.760 girls that do jujitsu together, right? And they're all five, six, seven, eight, nine years

00:53:12.560 old now, you know, and Aiden's got buddies from the gym as well. And you know, it's just

00:53:17.180 really cool.

00:53:17.680 And not to mention it pushes them into something that's uncomfortable. It's not comfortable

00:53:23.020 for anybody. I've never met anybody who would say initially that this is a comfortable,

00:53:28.280 enjoyable experience. They like it enough to go back perhaps, but it's not comfortable.

00:53:33.280 And if you can push your kids into that a little bit and, and give them some physicality and some

00:53:38.540 resistance, that's going to serve them well in every capacity of life.

00:53:42.360 Yes. Yes.

00:53:44.680 So tell me about this. Tell me about the charity that you and Pete had the match for. I know

00:53:50.240 Mark Lee was, was killed when, so was he killed in Iraq?

00:53:54.580 In Ramadi.

00:53:55.880 So Mark Lee was the first Navy SEAL that was killed in Iraq.

00:54:00.280 Okay.

00:54:00.700 He was killed in our deployment to Ramadi on August 2nd, 2006.

00:54:04.860 Okay.

00:54:05.820 And his mom, everyone calls her Mama Lee.

00:54:08.560 Right.

00:54:08.740 Her name is Debbie Lee and she started a foundation called America's Mighty Warriors and it is

00:54:14.740 foundation that helps veterans and everything that's raised goes towards that foundation. And

00:54:21.660 she just does a lot of different retreats and like, you know, therapy for veterans. Like

00:54:27.340 if somebody, let's say a veteran needed to go do the, um, float tanks. Right. And that

00:54:32.960 would help with the TBI.

00:54:34.520 Yeah. She's talking about TBI, the PTSD, these float tanks. I had no idea.

00:54:38.420 Yeah. Float tank therapy is phenomenal for anybody that has had concussions.

00:54:43.700 What is, do you know much about it? What is it that I need to talk about?

00:54:48.000 I don't know enough about it to talk on the podcast about it, but what I do know,

00:54:52.880 there is a podcast out there. I'll, I have it saved in my phone. I'll send it to you.

00:54:56.920 You can listen to it. It's really cool. It's a former, um, team guy from development group,

00:55:02.060 him and another team guy are talking about it with this, uh, sports medicine. It's on

00:55:07.660 this optimal health performance podcast. Okay. And they talk about float tank therapy for

00:55:12.760 helping with recovery and TDIs and concussions. And, uh, uh, guys out East at that command,

00:55:18.880 they actually got a float tank. I think they got like two of them for the command and guys

00:55:23.920 were using them just as really like recovery. And then a guy came back like the next day.

00:55:29.960 It was like, Hey, I want to do it again. And they're kind of like, well, what's up, man? He's

00:55:32.940 like, this is the first time I've ever actually slept all the way through the night. And after

00:55:38.920 it was like, like two or three days back to back of him doing like 60 or 90 minute sessions,

00:55:44.680 he was actually able to start not taking some of his pain meds and hit some of his sleep meds.

00:55:51.000 That's interesting. And then that float tank therapy ended up, I guess, getting this guy

00:55:54.560 off of all that stuff, which is crazy. And so she was telling me that she had what they did last

00:56:00.900 year to what they did this year. Like they doubled the amount of, of, uh, I don't know if patients

00:56:07.800 or veterans or what, but they doubled the amount of people and they, well, I guess I should say this

00:56:14.520 way. They budgeted for double the amount of people for this year, but they met that, that many

00:56:20.080 people in August, I want to say. So now she's, she doesn't want to turn people away. So she's

00:56:25.820 really trying to raise funds to be able to help more of our veterans.

00:56:28.800 Yeah. It's amazing. All the different stuff that they're doing. So I can't imagine. I did

00:56:34.060 have the opportunity and I went up and introduced myself and talked to her after the match. And

00:56:37.560 I just can't imagine, you know, as a parent, that sacrifice that she's made, you know, like

00:56:44.060 you think about Mark and obviously he's a brother of yours and you guys had the relationship.

00:56:49.020 And I imagine that he would probably, without knowing him, make that sacrifice again.

00:56:53.980 Well, 100%. He, yeah, he know, he, he knew the risk of what he was doing and he did that

00:57:01.640 so his brothers could safely move.

00:57:03.960 Is that right?

00:57:04.860 Yeah.

00:57:05.240 What was the scenario?

00:57:07.100 Um, it was just the receiving gunfire coming in through and he just started laying down cover

00:57:12.480 fire in the doorway.

00:57:13.720 So everybody else can move.

00:57:14.660 Yeah. So guys can move.

00:57:15.480 And he got hit there in the doorway as he was laying down cover fire.

00:57:17.960 Hmm. Yeah. I, I just, in talking with her and as being, being a parent now myself and,

00:57:24.660 and thinking about the, gosh, just the situation of getting a visit or a phone call or, you know,

00:57:33.300 and, and having to go through that scenario of now, did, did the seals, did you guys tell

00:57:38.920 her or how, or I guess you were deployed. So yeah, we're still deployed. You wouldn't have

00:57:42.340 been in that situation.

00:57:43.520 No, we're still deployed.

00:57:44.300 Yeah. I thought it was really cool also to see that you guys had rallied around almost

00:57:49.540 as her sons, her boys in a way. Would, would you say that's accurate?

00:57:53.000 Yeah, absolutely. And, uh, you know, we were thinking like Jocko said before or after the

00:57:58.140 match, you know, with, uh, with Mama Lee, like we all thought, you know, we were going

00:58:02.900 to be providing her support, right.

00:58:05.060 And trying to be there and it was the exact opposite. She was there for us. She was the

00:58:09.880 one that was comforting us and consoling us and has just always, always like she reaches

00:58:15.700 out like, like consistently just like, Hey, how are, how are things going? Or Hey, you're

00:58:20.020 on my mind? Or Hey, I was praying for you and Amanda and the kids and you know, yeah, it's,

00:58:25.080 it's really cool. And she is, she is mama, mama Lee. Like that's why we call her mama Lee

00:58:30.720 because she is a mom to everybody in task unit bruiser.

00:58:33.940 Yeah. It's inspiring to see how she's handled that because I think it would become very easy

00:58:38.760 to be, uh, bitter and resentful and a lot of contention and anger and maybe even hostility

00:58:45.060 towards you guys even potentially. Yeah. Because yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's all kinds

00:58:50.440 of stuff that could be there. Yeah. You can easily go down that road of road of just questioning

00:58:57.480 doubt, like doubting Mark's leadership and doubting Mark's teammates and doubting why we were there

00:59:05.080 and why, why we're on that mission and there's all this stuff. But you know, we've all experienced

00:59:10.380 some sort of loss in our lives. We've all experienced some sort of darkness. And if you

00:59:15.020 sit there and you focus on that, it gets you absolutely nowhere. And mama Lee has used

00:59:20.480 this scenario, which is a horrible scenario. One of the worst, right? You lose your kid

00:59:26.060 into a platform so that she can help serve others because Mark was all about serving others

00:59:32.360 about doing a random act of kindness. You know, that's one of the things that she does is she

00:59:37.940 does a random act of kindness every single day. I don't know why that always gets me choked up

00:59:50.080 because that's who Mark was. Mark served everybody around him. He always, he loved to take care of

00:59:57.000 people. He loved what we were doing overseas. He believed in the mission because we were there

01:00:03.100 for a lot of different reasons. But a main reason was for those innocent Iraqi families

01:00:09.320 that were being tortured and murdered if they didn't conform to these insurgents' ways.

01:00:15.920 And there was a lot of enemy fighters in that area. And that's why we were in combat every single day.

01:00:22.300 And Mark's thing was just random acts of kindness for people. And every day, Mama Lee does a random act of

01:00:30.080 kindness for somebody, whether, you know, it's picking up the tab for somebody, not telling them,

01:00:35.460 or if somebody's at the, you know, gas pump and they go inside and they're like, Hey, can you just

01:00:40.500 put $5 on the pump? She'd be like, can you fill up their tank and I'll pay for it? You know,

01:00:46.180 just stuff like that. Wow. And, um, it's just, you know, who she is and she's trying to carry on

01:00:52.360 that message of, of Mark. And I love that she tells people about that, you know, and I've been tagged

01:00:56.960 on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook of people saying, Hey, did a random act of kindness.

01:01:02.500 Is that right? Uh, thanks to Mama Lee telling me about it and they'll tag her and they'll tag me.

01:01:06.960 And, you know, it was cool. There's, um, you know, Jocko did that video and there's people

01:01:13.300 that know the backstory between Mama Lee and what she does. And someone said, Hey, just donated an

01:01:19.460 extra a hundred dollars to America's mighty warriors and like tagged me in it. And, um, you know,

01:01:25.960 so the bet between Pete and I got, got up to $2,500. Right. And I was like, Oh my goodness.

01:01:32.220 I'll explain this to Amanda. And, uh, and so, you know, he's got some weird, uh, motorcycle.

01:01:41.720 Oh yeah. I can dig that. You ride, you ride bikes. I used to, I used to race street bikes and

01:01:47.460 ride hard. Yeah. I haven't rode for, I'm lucky to be alive. I think back to all the stuff I used

01:01:52.260 to do on them. I'm like, no, thank you. Um, yeah, it's a standup wheelies going 150,

01:01:57.760 150 miles an hour on the freeway. That's something that is never like being on a motorcycle is

01:02:02.860 something that's never appealed to me. I love it. It's so refreshing and just freeing of your soul

01:02:08.040 just to ride. But the riding I was doing, it was awesome in a controlled environment on a racetrack

01:02:14.680 and leathers and everything. But what I used to do out on the street, I'm, I'm, it is an absolute

01:02:19.940 grace of God environment that I'm still alive. Some of the stuff I used to do. I had some real

01:02:27.240 close calls. Why did, what, what was it about that, that you did that? Just the adrenaline.

01:02:31.420 Just, I would literally, I, I would. Was this before or after your service? I was in the teams.

01:02:35.580 Oh, is that right? I was in the teams. I would sit on the tank of my motorcycle. I would downshift

01:02:41.220 to where I'm at a high RPM or yeah. High RPMs. I would put my feet up over the handlebars.

01:02:48.060 So I'm like riding on the tank and I would just crank up wheelies and do the wheelies

01:02:53.260 like sitting up on like that. Yeah. It's ridiculous. No control.

01:02:57.240 You just wanted that adrenaline. Yep. That's all I was chasing.

01:02:59.900 So what is, so has that gone away? Oh yeah. Or did you harness it?

01:03:03.520 Well, no. Yeah. It never went away. I harnessed it because I have a wife and three kids.

01:03:07.640 Hmm. You know, I'm very grateful to be alive and if, you know, yeah, there's so many situations

01:03:13.840 that something bad could have happened. Yeah. So, but what were we saying right before the

01:03:19.300 motorcycle? Oh, we were talking about. Oh, the donation. Oh, that's right. 2,500 bucks.

01:03:24.480 That's right. So Pete donated, you know, so he donated $2,500 and then other random donations

01:03:30.620 from people here at the camp was like another $948. Are you serious? Yeah. She texts Amanda

01:03:37.240 Roberts and Jocko and I about that. And then Amanda Roberts said, Hey, we actually have

01:03:43.660 another donation. It was anonymous donation. Somebody matched Pete's. What? Yeah. So you

01:03:48.980 guys are up near six grand. Yeah. Just under 6,000. And then the online one. So yeah, that

01:03:53.880 pushes it over six grand. Yeah. Pretty cool. That is very cool. Yeah. Very cool. That'll, that'll do

01:03:59.720 a lot of good for some service members for sure. Yeah. And they need it, man. It, it, it

01:04:04.300 sounds like, um, I want to go back to, we were talking about Alexei and, and, and his

01:04:11.940 display of leadership and empathy. I think that's something that we need to drill down on a little

01:04:17.500 bit because I think there's a misconception that men aren't supposed to be emotional and

01:04:25.340 I, and it is genuinely a misconception where human beings, we can be emotional.

01:04:29.720 Yeah. But there's the balance, right? Of letting your emotions get to you and then utilizing

01:04:35.600 them to create effective outcomes. In this case, it would be using the emotion of, of

01:04:42.900 brotherhood or, or potentially love even to display something that connects you closer

01:04:48.420 together. Right? So like, how do you find that balance of utilizing your emotion versus

01:04:54.420 suppressing that emotion? Well, I think you have to be comfortable with yourself. You know,

01:05:01.780 Alexei is very, is obviously a very confident individual. He's one of the top jujitsu practitioners

01:05:07.760 in the world. Yeah. So I don't think he has any insecurity issues. Right. There's no issues with

01:05:13.240 his manhood. Yeah. There's absolutely no issues. He has nothing to prove, you know, but at the same

01:05:19.040 time he has everything to prove, you know, because of this environment that he's in and, you know,

01:05:24.020 at the level that he's at, you know, that's what Jocko says as, as leaders, you have nothing to prove,

01:05:27.920 but everything to prove. And I think you have to be comfortable with who you are and standing up for

01:05:33.420 what you believe in. Well, at what point have like, when did it become not okay for you to show

01:05:42.760 emotions? Like somebody decided because they're insecure to make fun of somebody else that express

01:05:50.100 and then somebody who was like, Oh, I don't like the way this feels. And so they're like, well,

01:05:54.460 I shouldn't be emotional. And it's like, Oh, you're being emotional. You know, and they go down

01:05:58.300 that route. It's like, you know, it's like why, you know, there are, there are men that are bold

01:06:04.740 with their faith. And then there are men that are timid and they're just like, well, I don't want to

01:06:08.580 talk about my faith and offend somebody. Or I don't, you know, I don't want to give God glory

01:06:12.940 because, Hey, you know, I don't know. And then there's people that are the exact opposite, you know,

01:06:18.320 the other side of the spectrum. It's like, no, this is who I am. This is what I believe in. This is,

01:06:22.940 you know, these are my morals and my values. And, you know, you have a problem with that. Let's discuss it.

01:06:28.300 You know, they, they, they plant their flag and they, they stand true to what they believe in.

01:06:33.440 And I think that's where you have to be as a man is be confident and, and, you know, like, okay,

01:06:40.280 cool. You show emotional and, you know, empathy towards another human being. Why is that a bad thing?

01:06:49.640 It shouldn't be, it isn't, it shouldn't be looked at. And it should never be looked at that way.

01:06:54.120 And I think if more men just stood up for what they believed in and shut it down, like if somebody

01:06:59.740 even started to say anything and you're like, you just shut it down to where it can't move forward

01:07:05.060 anymore, then that would, that would help. And that would make a shift and a change.

01:07:08.600 Yeah. Yeah. I can appreciate that for sure. Well, I want to ask you a couple of questions. We kind of

01:07:13.440 alluded to this and danced around for just a minute, but what does it mean to be a man?

01:07:18.040 Well, Jocko's answer was rock solid. It was rock solid. Um, I mean, that's hard. Like,

01:07:29.380 I wish you wouldn't have told me his answer because my answer is going to be along those

01:07:32.680 lines also. And I, you know, we talked about this before, but, um, you know, for, for me,

01:07:37.720 what it means to be a man is, is to provide for your family, to provide for those around you as well.

01:07:45.660 It doesn't have to be your family for you to provide for. You should be able to take care

01:07:49.520 of other people as well. Um, have the ability to protect yourselves, protect yourself, protect

01:07:56.040 your family and, uh, you know, to show empathy and love. Like, I don't like, there's not enough

01:08:03.540 of that, you know? And, and, you know, obviously Jocko's answer is, you know, just do the right

01:08:08.440 thing. Yeah. Like, you know what you need to do. Do that. And so to, to kind of add to that

01:08:13.840 is, you know, stand up for what you believe in, take a stand. You know, you don't have to

01:08:18.880 conform to everybody around you. We be who you are. Be proud of the individual that God has made

01:08:27.300 you and let others around, you know, that to me, I mean, that's kind of where I think.

01:08:34.660 And mostly, you know, like when I answer those questions, it's more of like, it's not where I

01:08:39.840 think I am at. It's, these are things I need to work on. Oh, no doubt. So I'm right there

01:08:43.860 with you. Yeah. Yeah. Right on, man. Well, I appreciate it. Well, how do we, how do we

01:08:48.200 connect with you? Obviously with echelon front and the team you guys have, so you have your

01:08:52.620 muster, you have the FTX, is that right? Yeah. So how does that work? The muster is a two

01:08:57.800 day leadership symposium type of event that Jocko and Leif created years ago. Um, the next

01:09:06.060 one coming up is in September up in Denver. And then you go to Australia. And then we're

01:09:11.400 going to Australia in December. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Um, yeah, I'm actually not going

01:09:15.800 to Australia for that muster. Oh, you're not going to go, okay. Yeah. Uh, yeah, I really

01:09:18.160 wanted to, it was going to be cool, but it's going to be a really small event. Right. And

01:09:22.160 there's just a lot that goes on with traveling to Australia, the muster and all this stuff

01:09:25.700 logistically and just whatnot. And there's other like gigs and work that was going on during

01:09:30.880 that same timeframe. And I'm like, you know what the best thing for me to do for the

01:09:33.760 company and is to stay here actually and do these other gigs and keep building up our

01:09:40.180 programs. We have some FTXs that I possibly try to run during that time frame. Are those

01:09:44.300 open to civilians? Are those... The FTXs? Yes. What exactly is that? So the FTX is a field

01:09:50.260 training exercise. Sure. So it's mostly all with companies right now. Ah, okay. And we are going

01:09:54.980 to open it up probably sometime in 2020 where it'll be an individual experience. And then you just

01:10:01.160 get banded with the random people or whatever. Yeah. So it'll be like up to 25 people per day

01:10:06.860 going through the training. We give you intel packages and then we rotate through different

01:10:11.920 positions of leadership. So it'll be the officer in charge, the assistant officer in charge,

01:10:15.920 squad leaders, fire team leaders. We give you an intel package and then you go conduct a capture

01:10:21.440 kill mission against my role players. And my role players are former or current Navy SEALs.

01:10:27.500 Really? Marines, Rangers, Delta, SWAT, you know, the guys that are...

01:10:33.200 Top to top. Yeah. And that's who you're going up

01:10:35.220 against. Right. Good luck. What kind of...

01:10:37.840 But the day progresses. Okay.

01:10:39.760 But after every run, so you go out and conduct the run, each run is going to instill the leadership

01:10:46.980 principles that we teach at Echelon Front, the laws of combat, the mindsets of victory.

01:10:51.540 And so after every run, we debrief that run as to how it relates to what you have going on in your

01:10:58.420 life and in business. Right.

01:11:00.360 That's the most important part of it. I don't care about the tactics. We know people's tactics

01:11:04.020 are going to be horrible. And that's not what we're trying to do. And that's...

01:11:06.580 I'm not trying to teach tactics to companies. I want to teach you leadership principles and share

01:11:11.820 the lessons that we have learned so that you don't make the same mistakes. Sure.

01:11:15.380 Or if you have, you can help correct it and go back. You're using the scenario as a metaphor

01:11:19.660 for everything else you're going to deal with. It's a metaphor and a tool. Right.

01:11:22.460 You know, the training is a tool so that you can see what's going on and then you can apply it.

01:11:27.220 Right. Back to work. So we do that for companies right now. It's very effective,

01:11:31.500 hands-on leadership training. Yeah.

01:11:34.580 And then we also have these long-range leadership programs that we partner up with companies and we

01:11:41.460 come in, we do assessments and evaluations with them. And then we work with them to align with

01:11:46.120 where they're wanting to go, our leadership principles. And then we help kind of partner

01:11:50.820 with them for, you know, four months, eight months, 12, 18 months, whatever they're...

01:11:56.220 Yeah. Whatever that they need and that we can provide for them. So if you want to reach out

01:12:01.500 to Echelon Front and see what we do, and if you have an event, you know, we do keynotes,

01:12:05.300 we do half-day leadership workshops, full-day leadership workshops.

01:12:08.500 Those are the roll calls, right? You get the roll call.

01:12:09.980 Yeah. And then a roll call is like a muster, but it's one day. And that's just for first

01:12:15.900 responders. Oh, that's right.

01:12:17.040 And government, law enforcement, you know, firefighters, border patrol, you know, government

01:12:22.580 employees, you know, state and all that stuff. So that's all the different stuff.

01:12:26.460 So you do it all. You're telling me you do it all.

01:12:27.660 We're kind of doing it all. So easiest way to learn about all that is just go to echelonfront.com.

01:12:33.160 So that's E-C-H-E-L-O-N-F-R-O-N-T.com. For the musters, extremeownership.com. That has more

01:12:43.280 of the information about the musters, but from echelonfront.com, you can get to all that.

01:12:48.440 Check out all the instructors that we have, all the services that we provide and whatnot.

01:12:53.480 And then if you want to connect with me on social media and echelonfront, it's at JPDonell. So it's

01:13:00.420 J-P-D-I-N-N-E-L-L. And that's on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook.

01:13:07.220 All the places.

01:13:07.980 Yep. And then echelonfront is just at echelonfront.

01:13:10.740 Right on.

01:13:11.220 On all those.

01:13:11.980 We'll sync it all up, man.

01:13:12.940 Yeah.

01:13:13.340 Cool, man.

01:13:13.480 I really appreciate you. I appreciate our friendship. It's been good to get to know you

01:13:16.700 over the past couple of years. I'm inspired by what you're doing.

01:13:19.060 You as well. And then obviously, I mean, we both have to talk about origin.

01:13:22.100 Yeah. Because we're both connected with origin and they're doing some amazing things right

01:13:28.380 now. Going to the factory, it's just so inspiring.

01:13:32.480 Isn't it incredible?

01:13:33.380 It is incredible.

01:13:33.560 I love looking at the looms. To me, to see those machines in operation is very, very cool

01:13:41.720 to see how those things work and what they had to do to get them to work again. Pretty

01:13:48.060 incredible stuff.

01:13:49.620 It blows my mind.

01:13:51.340 Yeah.

01:13:51.700 Like just, yeah. That's one of my favorites. Just go down there and just watch the loom.

01:13:55.840 Right.

01:13:56.320 You're just like, that's amazing. I mean, there's just tens of thousands, if not hundreds of

01:14:02.680 thousands of moving parts that all have to be in sync.

01:14:06.620 Have you seen their boot making process?

01:14:09.020 Yeah.

01:14:09.600 That's incredible.

01:14:10.320 Now, I'm a little jealous you didn't make a pair of boots.

01:14:11.340 I know. I did get to make my own pair.

01:14:13.760 Dude, that is so legit.

01:14:14.920 But just to see that process and actually go through it. And I've never been on a sewing

01:14:19.960 machine in my life. And then to be able to sew some of that leather stitching together,

01:14:23.780 it doesn't maybe look as good as it could had Henry done that. But to be able to do part

01:14:29.200 of it was actually really cool.

01:14:30.440 Yeah.

01:14:30.560 You know, it was really cool. I was sitting in the factory. I was there yesterday, but

01:14:35.160 then also earlier in the week. And I was just looking around, just watching everybody work

01:14:40.280 and they're doing their things. And to see these Americans happy at work.

01:14:48.540 They love what they do.

01:14:51.220 They do.

01:14:51.600 They're happy to have jobs. They're happy to be a part of Origin and Origin Labs. And

01:14:56.400 you know, it's incredibly inspiring to just know Pete and Brian, just what they've done

01:15:04.280 and what they're going to do. And you know, John and the rest of the team that have been

01:15:08.320 there since day one. It was just really cool to just see things just expanding. And we won't

01:15:15.400 get into it over this podcast, but you and I both know what their plans are for the future

01:15:19.120 for all the other stuff. It's like, oh, wow.

01:15:22.460 The end takeover of the world. It's going to be awesome.

01:15:25.460 Absolutely.

01:15:25.780 Yeah. Well, I agree. Sync up. Guys, if you're listening, sync up with those guys because

01:15:30.840 they're doing some incredible things and they will continue to do so. Anyways, we'll call

01:15:34.720 it a day, JP. Appreciate you, man.

01:15:36.400 Thank you, buddy.

01:15:36.880 We'll go roll again. I don't think we've rolled yet since we've been here.

01:15:39.560 We will tonight.

01:15:40.180 I'm going to attack that arm, man.

01:15:41.420 Get it. You should attack both.

01:15:43.080 Don't wish me luck if I do that. All right, brother. Thanks, man.

01:15:48.400 Guys, there you go. My conversation with the one and only JP Donnell. I hope you enjoyed

01:15:52.480 that one. Of course, it's always nice and good to sit down with a friend and somebody who's

01:15:56.980 as successful and has as many ideas and perspectives and how to create the type of mentality, the never

01:16:04.200 quit mentality that we talked about. He's doing great things with the foundation we talked

01:16:08.060 about earlier with Mark Lee's mother. Of course, that match that we got to see and participate

01:16:15.180 in to some degree was pretty incredible to see and a lot of lessons in this conversation.

01:16:20.480 So make sure you're following JP. Follow me as well, both on Instagram. Very, very active

01:16:25.560 over there. And let us know. Let us know what you thought about the show, what you took away,

01:16:30.760 how you're implementing this stuff. Share it. A lot of guys are sharing their stories about

01:16:35.420 the podcast or how they're improving their lives on Instagram stories. So make sure you're doing

01:16:39.680 that as well. And as I said earlier, subscribe to the show and leave us a rating and review.

01:16:44.820 We've got thousands and thousands of ratings and reviews. We need thousands and thousands of more

01:16:48.880 because we have millions of men and not just men, but I believe we're the, we're the tip of the

01:16:55.240 spear, if you will, but we've got to reach millions of men across the planet and that will go a long

01:17:00.560 way in doing that. So guys, we'll be back tomorrow for my conversation and the ask me anything with

01:17:06.300 Kip Sorensen. So again, make sure you tune in for that. And of course, our Friday field notes,

01:17:10.080 but appreciate you being on this path. Appreciate you being on the journey. I am inspired by you

01:17:14.540 every single day and I'm a better man because you're tuning in and you're holding me accountable

01:17:19.460 either directly or indirectly. And for that, I appreciate it. And thank you. All right,

01:17:23.380 guys, we'll let you get going until tomorrow. Go out there, take action, become the man you

01:17:27.520 are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. You're ready to take charge of

01:17:32.640 your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - September 10, 2019

Never Quit ｜ JP DINNELL

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