Order of Man - OoM 005： A Financial Plan in One Page with Carl Richards

00:00:00.000 If you've ever tried to create a financial plan or met with somebody to help you, you

00:00:03.200 understand what a confusing and frustrating process that can be.

00:00:06.800 My guest today, Mr. Carl Richards, shares with us how easy it can and should be to finally

00:00:10.880 get on track with your money.

00:00:12.420 You're a man of action.

00:00:13.800 You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:18.180 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:22.640 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:27.700 This is your life.

00:00:28.540 This is who you are.

00:00:30.200 This is who you will become at the end of the day.

00:00:33.160 And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:41.560 My guest today is Carl Richards.

00:00:43.300 He is a certified financial planner.

00:00:45.300 He's also the director of investor education for the Band Alliance.

00:00:49.360 Carl has been featured on Marketplace Money, Oprah.com, and Forbes.com.

00:00:54.040 And in addition, he has become a frequent keynote speaker at financial planning conferences.

00:00:58.600 And in fact, he's keynoting in a financial conference that I'm going to be attending later

00:01:02.480 this year.

00:01:03.440 Carl is known for his simple financial sketches where he makes complex financial concepts easy

00:01:08.720 to understand.

00:01:09.440 And those sketches, they serve as the foundation for his first book, The Behavior Gap.

00:01:13.980 Simple Ways to Stop Doing Dumb Things with Your Money.

00:01:18.200 Carl, hey, I'm so excited to have you on the show today.

00:01:21.140 Honored to be here, Ryan.

00:01:22.100 Thank you.

00:01:23.180 It's going to be a good time.

00:01:23.920 We've got a lot of good things.

00:01:24.940 Of course, my background is in financial planning years as well.

00:01:27.180 So I think we'll be able to have a good conversation that will serve our audience well.

00:01:30.300 Yeah, for sure.

00:01:31.920 So I told you this quickly before we started this interview, but I actually ran across your

00:01:37.920 work.

00:01:38.380 I was in the airport and ran across The Behavior Gap, which is a previous book that you had

00:01:42.480 written.

00:01:43.320 And I flew through that on the plane ride home.

00:01:46.420 I can't even remember where I was going, but I was so intrigued and I love the book.

00:01:49.760 And now you've got this new book out, The One Page Financial Plan, which from my perspective

00:01:54.860 is you're really trying to set out to simplify a financial plan or the financial planning

00:01:59.800 process.

00:02:00.300 Is that right?

00:02:01.700 Yeah, for sure.

00:02:02.540 I just think, I mean, look, I don't know.

00:02:05.280 Well, there are a lot of things that are really, really important in life that also seem or

00:02:09.820 feel really, really complex, but I'm not sure if there's one that's, it seems like right

00:02:16.420 now, making good financial decisions has gotten way more important and at the same time, sort

00:02:25.620 of way more complex as we get thrown so much more information.

00:02:29.700 So my goal here was just to help people cut through, like, what's the stuff that actually

00:02:33.560 matters?

00:02:35.020 And, you know, let's just pretend like even if it's only 90% there, 90% is far better than

00:02:42.800 all the time and energy.

00:02:43.900 You know, 90%, if you got this stuff 90% right, you'd be better than, you know, 100% of your

00:02:49.180 neighbors, let's put it that way, right?

00:02:50.720 So it was to get a really good answer out to people that they could use, even if often

00:02:58.080 the search for the best answer causes so many problems that we just don't even get started

00:03:04.640 on a really good one.

00:03:05.600 So that was the goal, was to get people started on a really good answer.

00:03:08.620 And that's a good point.

00:03:09.700 I mean, I think just sometimes we've just got to be real practical.

00:03:12.240 At the end of the day, if we can't implement the best advice in the world, what good is

00:03:15.480 it anyways, right?

00:03:16.160 For sure.

00:03:17.040 Yep, I agree.

00:03:17.600 And so why do you think, I mean, you mentioned financial planning is more important now than

00:03:21.160 ever.

00:03:21.500 What makes you say that?

00:03:23.700 Well, it feels, well, it doesn't feel like, there's just a reality that the traditional

00:03:29.420 structures that so many people have relied on are going away.

00:03:33.680 I mean, you know, my, the days of working at the same place for 30 years and retiring happy

00:03:38.980 with a pension just don't exist.

00:03:41.940 Right.

00:03:42.520 And, you know, we're, so there's this shift, and I'm not saying this is a bad thing, by

00:03:47.280 the way, but there's this shift towards personal responsibility, you know, 401k instead of a

00:03:53.100 pension.

00:03:53.460 Um, and that shift to personal responsibility is putting more of the burden on each of us

00:04:00.700 individually to figure our, figure this out.

00:04:03.240 And at the very same time, we're getting more information thrown at us.

00:04:09.120 And it's really becoming hard to navigate between just the noise and even more dramatic,

00:04:15.200 like the circus of like the financial pornography network and, and, and actual, you know, valuable

00:04:22.640 advice.

00:04:24.100 Why, why do you think, and I've got my, I've got my own ideas about why this is the case.

00:04:28.320 Why do you feel like it's becoming more complex?

00:04:31.960 Is it just that there's more products or more strategies?

00:04:34.440 Is there, what was the reason for the complexity?

00:04:38.580 Well, I think it's, well, at least a couple of things, right?

00:04:42.360 People, there are more products, right?

00:04:44.260 There's more mutual funds now than there are actual stocks, right?

00:04:49.300 Right.

00:04:49.540 More traded mutual funds than there are stocks.

00:04:51.460 Like there's more product.

00:04:53.560 Um, but there's also just, I think it's a, it's a, it's a symptom of the quote unquote

00:05:01.620 information age, right?

00:05:02.880 Like we, you, you deal with more information.

00:05:06.020 I can't remember what the number was, but it's just crazy.

00:05:08.260 Like we deal with more information on a daily basis than most people used to see in like

00:05:12.400 a year or so.

00:05:13.240 I can't even remember what that was astounding how much we have to sort through.

00:05:17.480 And that's not just in finance.

00:05:19.000 It's everything like any health decision you have to make now suddenly, I mean, have you

00:05:22.600 ever tried?

00:05:23.320 Just try.

00:05:24.820 In fact, don't, if you actually want to make a decision, but just for fun, take out a

00:05:29.320 prescription medicine out of your cabinet and walk over the computer and type it in a Google

00:05:34.640 search and see what happens to you, right?

00:05:37.720 Like you'll come up, you'll come up for air like three hours later and be so confused

00:05:43.240 and so concerned because you'll have read an opinion about every day.

00:05:47.220 I mean, that happened to me the other day when I was trying to buy new mountain bike tires.

00:05:50.220 I was like, let me just, okay.

00:05:51.520 So right.

00:05:51.920 Simple decision.

00:05:52.740 But suddenly I've read 15 different opinions and they all sound valid.

00:05:56.300 And I don't know what, I mean, you multiply that times a thousand or a million when it comes

00:06:00.680 to finance.

00:06:01.240 And I think that gives you a sense of why it feels more complex.

00:06:04.220 And the thing is like nothing else, like the fundamentals haven't changed in the sense

00:06:09.480 that it's actually really, really simple.

00:06:11.840 Now, not to be confused with easy, but there's only a few things we've got to get right.

00:06:17.720 And part of the process is stripping away all the layers of the onion and realizing like,

00:06:23.320 even though there's this huge symphony kind of playing this other store, this other song,

00:06:29.580 like this matters and this matters and this matters and this matters.

00:06:32.140 So it makes you feel like, well, because there's so much, you know, all the financial

00:06:36.800 pornography networks and all the news are all saying this stuff, this, this, this, this

00:06:40.940 matters.

00:06:41.680 It feels like because there's so many people saying it matters, it must matter.

00:06:46.060 But it actually doesn't.

00:06:47.620 Like when you start to get down to the bottom, it's really, really simple.

00:06:50.940 Again, not easy, but really, really simple.

00:06:53.700 Why are we so horrible at this?

00:06:56.820 Because here's the thing, like you said, there's only a few rules, right?

00:06:59.660 I mean, and they're not new, everybody knows them, you know, even in my practice, and I'm

00:07:03.900 sure in your practice as well.

00:07:05.500 I've never run across somebody who doesn't really have an understanding of what they

00:07:08.920 should do to, to a basic degree, right?

00:07:11.800 But why are we so horrible at what we should do, what we know we should do, and then what

00:07:16.560 we actually are doing?

00:07:17.580 Well, I mean, there's just, there's a whole sort of, you know, there's a whole group of

00:07:24.480 characters, if you will, and I'm using that metaphorically.

00:07:27.580 I mean, there actually are some actual real live characters, but, but mainly there's this

00:07:31.240 sort of group of characters conspiring against us.

00:07:34.100 And again, not a conspiracy theory, but there's our own genetics, sort of our own just natural

00:07:40.320 tendency as human beings to think that something that's making a lot of noise must be important,

00:07:47.060 right?

00:07:47.460 Like, that's just, you think from a long time ago, right?

00:07:49.740 A lion makes a lot of noise, it must be important, you better pay attention, right?

00:07:55.700 So you got that piece, and then there's a whole bunch of other stuff genetically, like

00:07:59.900 just in terms of our habits and our own, that's why behavioral finance is so important to understand.

00:08:04.760 There's a whole bunch of stuff, like if you were to design something to be a bad investor,

00:08:10.500 to speak about investing specifically, if you were to design something to be a bad investor,

00:08:14.760 you would design a human, right?

00:08:16.220 So you've got, and we can talk more about that if you want to, but you've got that whole

00:08:19.980 element, then you've got the element of, that we already talked about, just the complexity,

00:08:26.780 then you've got this issue of just self-control, and this subtle little thing that like, we're

00:08:35.580 so competitive these days, and we've replaced like, you know, I don't know, like old forms

00:08:43.400 of competition, maybe running out and, you know, killing an elk or something, you know,

00:08:47.540 like I'm going way back, but with a real simple shortcut of like, oh, look at that car the neighbors

00:08:56.220 just bought, they must be doing really well.

00:08:58.180 Why aren't I doing as well as them, right?

00:09:01.180 And then suddenly we're down this path, and nobody admits to that, like we don't say, oh,

00:09:05.420 yeah, I'm just keeping up with the Joneses.

00:09:06.800 We'd never say that, but it's really, it's much more subtle than that.

00:09:10.700 And so I think there's a whole bunch of reasons, which is why it's so important to get like

00:09:16.780 clear about what matters to you, not what matters to your neighbors, your friends, your

00:09:22.860 brother-in-law, like what matters to you, and then make your decisions based off that.

00:09:26.280 One of the things that I think you're really good at, and I learned this from the behavior

00:09:31.060 gap, but also this one-page financial plan is that from my perspective, you're really

00:09:36.780 good at cutting through the noise and the clutter and all the chaos that's out there.

00:09:40.580 And part of the way that you've done that is through your illustrations, which you're

00:09:43.560 kind of known for is those illustrations you do.

00:09:46.080 So how did you come across that?

00:09:47.840 What's been the reception for the illustrations that you've done?

00:09:50.520 Tell me a little bit about that.

00:09:52.280 Yeah, well, first of all, it's really nice of you to say that's the whole goal is to sort

00:09:55.260 of like, I didn't know I was doing this, but just the way my brain works, I don't have,

00:10:01.980 I like to joke, I don't have a lot of mental RAM, right?

00:10:05.240 So I can only deal with one big complex issue at a time.

00:10:10.060 I don't have storage space for multiples.

00:10:12.600 So when I'm done dealing with one, like diving into it, trying to understand it, like life

00:10:17.740 insurance or something, right?

00:10:18.780 Like I'm the whole time, all I'm thinking about is, okay, what really matters here?

00:10:23.140 Like, how can I get rid of 80% of this information and just store the 20% that mattered?

00:10:28.840 And that's what the images are supposed to be is sort of they represent an icon of the

00:10:34.060 experience I've been through.

00:10:35.460 Or you can think of it as a souvenir.

00:10:37.040 You know, so when I'm done dealing with some big problem, like somebody called me about,

00:10:42.160 you know, whatever, hedge funds, how come they, how come I'm hearing so much about hedge

00:10:45.600 funds?

00:10:46.080 Well, I'll dive into it, try to understand it, spend it, you know, a lot of time understanding

00:10:50.140 it.

00:10:50.320 And then at the end, I'm like, okay, how could I wrap this up in one simple icon?

00:10:54.100 And, and that's what the images are, are, are for is, and, and they're done with a Sharpie

00:10:59.860 because that's all I know how to use.

00:11:01.740 I don't know how to use an Adobe Illustrator or a paintbrush or it's a Sharpie.

00:11:05.800 And the reception you asked about has been, uh, frankly, just sort of, uh, I don't, I

00:11:11.740 don't know what they're astounding, astonishing, surprising because, but it's a lesson and it's

00:11:17.200 a lesson that I've learned.

00:11:18.300 And I hope more of us in the financial planning space can learn.

00:11:22.000 People are begging for us to make this simpler.

00:11:25.160 Like, please stop with all your fancy language and please, like people don't know, like you 1.00

00:11:32.120 can't, like I've watched financial planners and journalists.

00:11:35.800 Say things like, you know, they're trying to explain risk and they're getting blank looks.

00:11:41.300 And so they try to fix it by using the word, oh, you, you know what I mean?

00:11:44.300 Like volatility, right?

00:11:45.860 Like, that doesn't, that doesn't help.

00:11:49.000 So, and it's not, we got to keep this in mind. 1.00

00:11:52.180 People don't, this isn't complex to people because they're stupid, right? 0.98

00:11:56.660 There's no way it's complex because we're all busy and we have other areas of our lives 0.99

00:12:03.500 and we're, we don't have any more room in our heads for options.

00:12:06.440 Like I, I almost had a, a, a, a mental breakdown at the veterinarian.

00:12:12.560 And I write about this in the book when I, yeah, I went in to get my dog, you know, like

00:12:17.540 he was having some stomach problems and I'll spare you the details on how I knew he was

00:12:20.840 having stomach problems, but he was, I took him to the vet and, you know, I came back

00:12:24.360 an hour later.

00:12:24.940 She had thoroughly diagnosed us.

00:12:26.200 I'm trying to tell the story quickly.

00:12:27.440 And I, I came back to pick him up and she, she sat me down and she said, okay, you have

00:12:31.520 three options.

00:12:32.900 And I'm not, I'm, I'm like most of your listeners probably like we're all busy.

00:12:37.940 Like if you have more than, if you have a single kid, even if you don't have a kid,

00:12:41.880 you're really busy, but if you have kids, you know, you're busy, you're trying to figure

00:12:45.500 this out.

00:12:45.780 And the vet says, you have three options and I could feel my head about to explode.

00:12:50.280 Like what?

00:12:51.640 Three options.

00:12:52.960 You're the, you're the vet.

00:12:54.120 Like, what do you mean?

00:12:54.920 I, I, I'm not capable.

00:12:56.320 So I actually told her, I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:12:58.600 Don't even, I have no more space for options.

00:13:01.280 So that's again, like we need to understand, like I'm not dumb.

00:13:06.440 Like I could have sat down and researched those three options.

00:13:09.680 I could have gone on the internet and gone down that rabbit hole for a week.

00:13:12.820 I could have, you know, I could have figured this out if I went to, so it's the same with

00:13:17.440 finance, right? 0.98

00:13:18.820 Like it's not, people don't understand this, but not because they're dumb, it's because 0.99

00:13:22.160 they're busy. 0.98

00:13:22.660 We don't have any more space cognitively.

00:13:24.300 So I'm begging people like, please make this simpler because if they'll respond to a kid

00:13:30.780 from the hills in Utah using a Sharpie and a Fujitsu scanner, it's pretty, it's pretty

00:13:37.080 clear that people want this simpler.

00:13:38.640 Well, and I think we become just in financial planning community as a whole, I think what

00:13:43.820 happens is we become our own worst enemies because we want to sound smart, right?

00:13:47.780 I mean, it's an ego thing, I think is what it comes down to.

00:13:50.080 We want to sound sophisticated and knowledgeable and an expert in our field and it comes across

00:13:55.300 and it just doesn't resonate.

00:13:56.500 And then we become our own worst enemies because our clients aren't implementing the confusing

00:14:00.640 strategies we're recommending for them.

00:14:02.580 Well, yeah.

00:14:02.960 And I think, you know, there is that element.

00:14:04.840 There's also a more subtle element, which is just, you know, to give us all credit,

00:14:08.980 there's also this more subtle element and it's true in any field, right?

00:14:12.900 As you become more and more knowledgeable and more and more experienced in the field, you

00:14:17.560 often tend to get opportunities to deal with more and more complex situations.

00:14:22.440 And you think, I mean, look at any attorney, like how many attorneys have you gone to that

00:14:27.960 seem to be more interested in crafting a monument to themselves than a document to get the work

00:14:33.640 done?

00:14:34.540 And it's just a slippery, it's not like, yeah, there's this piece of it that's ego.

00:14:38.640 There might be this piece of it in the financial services industry that's salesman, you know,

00:14:42.720 a sales tactic.

00:14:44.380 But there's also this, just this piece that we have to protect against.

00:14:47.440 It's just sort of this natural evolution of our experience and field.

00:14:53.260 And so I think either way, whatever it is, whether it's just a good intention, you know,

00:14:59.160 sort of subtle shift over time, we just need to protect against realizing that when it comes

00:15:06.220 to money, at least, I know this is true of other fields, but when it comes to money, I

00:15:10.380 don't think we can make this too simple because the real answers, the simplest answer is almost

00:15:17.660 always the best one.

00:15:20.080 And in finance, it's really true.

00:15:22.560 Like, if it's complex, you're not doing something right.

00:15:27.440 Keep at it.

00:15:28.220 Like, I always tell my kids this, my kids rock climb a lot.

00:15:31.380 They, when they're on a climb that's a lot easier than they're capable of, and they're

00:15:37.780 having a hard time, I keep having to remind them and remind myself too, like, that just means

00:15:43.420 you haven't found the hold yet.

00:15:45.000 Like, there's a hold that you're not seeing quite yet.

00:15:47.580 Where you're stuck, there's just a handhold.

00:15:50.440 You're just not seeing it.

00:15:51.180 And when they find it, they're like, oh, yeah, there it is.

00:15:54.380 That's the same thing.

00:15:55.640 If it feels too complex, don't force it.

00:15:57.780 You're going to break something if you force it.

00:15:59.660 Just maybe back away a little bit, come at it from a different angle, because there's

00:16:05.220 got to be a simple answer right around the corner.

00:16:07.320 You're just not seeing it yet.

00:16:09.320 Well, and there's that quote that simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, right?

00:16:13.420 That's true.

00:16:14.120 And as long as you understand the difference between simplistic and basic, and elegant

00:16:20.900 simplicity, that's really true.

00:16:23.580 How do you find this balance?

00:16:25.160 Like, if there's somebody listening and they're thinking, okay, yeah, I get that I'm going

00:16:29.500 to turn to a financial advisor, I'm going to turn to whoever it may be for some additional

00:16:34.580 help with some of my planning.

00:16:36.180 How do you find the balance between personal accountability and responsibility, and then just

00:16:41.180 pawning all your decisions off on somebody else?

00:16:44.300 Yeah, that's a really good question.

00:16:46.020 So the goal, I think, at least in my mind, if you're going to work with a financial planner

00:16:51.720 or a financial advisor, the goal isn't necessarily to pawn all those decisions.

00:16:56.480 The goal is to have a really good co-pilot, right?

00:17:00.440 Like, it's still, what matters most is, like, your own values.

00:17:07.780 Like, those are yours.

00:17:09.060 They're not the financial planners.

00:17:10.860 Your goals are yours.

00:17:13.640 And then the job of a good financial planner is to then help you go find the tools to populate

00:17:22.840 the plan, right?

00:17:23.700 Like, okay, I'll go look at all, based on, the goal of a good financial planner is to

00:17:27.780 be able to say this, right?

00:17:29.360 Based on everything you've told me, here's what you should do.

00:17:34.140 That's what a doctor does. 0.98

00:17:35.640 A doctor doesn't say, I mean, normally, like, at least not an emergency medicine doctor, right?

00:17:40.040 Because they don't have time.

00:17:41.080 They don't say, you have four options.

00:17:42.640 Let me go home and research them and come back and tell me what you want to do.

00:17:45.460 They say, here's what we're going to do, right?

00:17:46.820 Like, so I think that's the goal of a good, and your job is to make sure that you feel

00:17:55.160 fully diagnosed.

00:17:57.660 If you don't feel fully diagnosed, you've got to make a decision.

00:18:00.880 Do you like this relationship?

00:18:02.240 And should you say, I'll tell you a quick experience.

00:18:04.720 My wife and I went in to get some legal work done, kind of basic estate planning, not like

00:18:10.900 a, not like mansion estate planning, just basic stuff, the wills, all that stuff.

00:18:17.440 And the attorney, who was a friend of ours, had us fill out this long questionnaire.

00:18:22.920 That was the first big red flag.

00:18:24.180 Like, we had to sit in the foyer and fill out a questionnaire like we were at a doctor.

00:18:27.960 Then we went, they took the questionnaire.

00:18:29.840 We went in a few minutes later, and he said, okay, I've reviewed this.

00:18:33.180 Didn't ask us any more questions.

00:18:34.460 He said, hey, I've reviewed this.

00:18:35.540 And based on this, there's two ways you could go.

00:18:38.660 And he started to lay out those two ways.

00:18:40.120 He's not unlike our experience with our dog.

00:18:42.780 And my wife interrupted him and said, hey, listen, and she was mad. 0.74

00:18:46.660 She said, listen, I didn't come here to have you tell me two different options so I could

00:18:52.960 decide.

00:18:53.700 I came here for you to ask me enough questions to get to know our situation and what we wanted

00:18:58.680 to do well enough, which you have not done, so that you could tell us what to do.

00:19:02.580 That's what we're paying for, is you telling us what to do.

00:19:05.480 And of course, you know, like that meeting ended relatively quickly.

00:19:09.040 So I think if you're in a situation where you have somebody, a financial advisor, you

00:19:14.020 should make a decision.

00:19:16.520 Do you care enough to have that conversation, or do you just need to find somebody new?

00:19:20.980 And if you care enough to have that conversation, tell them.

00:19:23.240 Like, look, your job is to diagnose.

00:19:25.440 You haven't taken the time.

00:19:26.320 Like, so your job is to make sure you feel thoroughly diagnosed so you can implement the

00:19:31.040 suggestions somebody's given you.

00:19:32.860 And then stick to it.

00:19:34.640 Well, so you talk a lot about in the book, a big majority of, I think, even the first

00:19:38.740 section, you talk about finding out why money's important to you, finding out about your values.

00:19:45.620 How do you suggest that people do that?

00:19:47.260 Like, how do you find out what's important to you?

00:19:49.140 Because I think there's a lot of things we might think that are important, that at the

00:19:52.400 end of the day, we have some underlying things that are more important than what we think.

00:19:58.200 Yeah.

00:19:58.400 So there's two ways.

00:20:00.080 One, you talk about it.

00:20:01.180 And that's that framework for the first chapter in the book.

00:20:05.340 Um, I try to give people this sort of framework for having that conversation.

00:20:10.060 And the conversation just stems around one question that you sort of either ask yourself

00:20:14.700 or even more importantly, have somebody else ask you, walk you through.

00:20:18.660 So, um, that, and that question simply, and it sounds funny, you got to read the book to

00:20:22.840 understand it, but why is money important to you?

00:20:25.300 Right.

00:20:25.580 That's the question you're going to ask yourself.

00:20:27.000 So that's important, right?

00:20:27.860 You have that dialogue.

00:20:29.520 That's really important.

00:20:30.360 But I always like to point out to people, like, it's the, it's the process of comparing

00:20:36.960 what you said was important to you with what you're spending your money and your time on.

00:20:42.940 Like, I love that old saying that the checkbook and the calendar never lie.

00:20:48.440 So in other words, I don't really care.

00:20:50.960 I mean, I do care, but I don't really care what you tell me is important to you.

00:20:55.420 Let me see how you're spending your money and your time and I'll tell you what's important

00:21:01.420 to you.

00:21:02.540 And so then what happens is you often are going to uncover that what you said was important

00:21:08.840 to you is not matching up with what you're spending your money and your time.

00:21:12.340 And, and here's the really critical part of this process, right?

00:21:15.480 I'm, I'm imagining sort of, if you're looking at a piece of paper, like two boxes, right?

00:21:19.720 Here's what I said was important to me and here's how I'm spending my money and my time.

00:21:22.960 And there's a gap between the two.

00:21:25.540 And so just don't judge that gap, right?

00:21:29.140 This is the really important part.

00:21:30.460 Like, don't judge that gap.

00:21:31.920 Just, just, I want your new favorite word to be, your new favorite phrase to be, isn't

00:21:37.340 that interesting?

00:21:39.300 Just look at the gap and say, isn't that interesting?

00:21:41.940 Don't say bad or good.

00:21:43.340 And so now the question is to start getting those things aligned.

00:21:46.900 It may be that what you said was important to you.

00:21:49.140 It turns out it might not have been.

00:21:50.580 Or it may be that how you're spending your money and your time is out of, out of alignment.

00:21:57.500 Somehow, something's out of alignment.

00:21:59.700 And so, and it's always going to be out of alignment.

00:22:01.880 Realize this is what it means to be human.

00:22:03.620 It's just this process.

00:22:04.660 So slowly over time, you want to try and work at getting those aligned.

00:22:09.060 What you said was important to you and how you spend your money and your time.

00:22:12.240 We want to slowly get those aligned over time.

00:22:14.720 And that's never going to be perfect.

00:22:16.260 So you're just going to keep, you got to be committed to the process, not committed to

00:22:21.800 the plan.

00:22:23.140 So what are some of the reasons that we do get out of alignment?

00:22:26.720 Why, why is it that we have these underlying or underpinning values and then we are spending

00:22:31.280 money and time on, on things that we don't truly value at the end of the day?

00:22:35.060 What's, what's the gap there?

00:22:36.080 I mean, why, why is it that way?

00:22:37.880 Yeah, it's because we're human, right?

00:22:39.640 It's called life.

00:22:40.760 And we just, I think we need to give ourselves a little bit of a break and just say, hey,

00:22:44.640 this is what it means to be human.

00:22:45.980 It's okay.

00:22:46.880 We're just going to, but what's, what's really powerful is just getting to the point where

00:22:50.580 you start noticing that.

00:22:51.840 That's it.

00:22:52.240 Not judging it, but just at least noticing it and saying something like, oh, well, that's

00:22:56.080 interesting.

00:22:56.400 I just spent money on this and yet I'm saying no to that.

00:22:59.900 And so that's the process, but you know, it's a little bit longer answer than just

00:23:05.600 we're human and it's life is right.

00:23:08.400 We, I mean, we just get a little confused.

00:23:10.240 I mean, first of all, we may have never had the conversation to really take the time to

00:23:14.820 think about it.

00:23:15.420 We're just running through life so fast, you know, we're essentially running through

00:23:19.900 life to sleep, right?

00:23:21.280 And, and, and, and that's, that's, that's, that's hard not to do.

00:23:25.620 I mean, it's just sort of what everybody's doing.

00:23:26.920 We also could be just so addicted to the urgent that we don't have any time to think

00:23:31.860 about the important and, and that's important too.

00:23:35.860 And then, you know, we may just be, and this sounds a little harsher than I mean it, but

00:23:40.600 we may just be living other people's lives.

00:23:43.120 And again, that's so subtle and easy to do.

00:23:46.040 It's, it's so subtle to be like, you know, then we wake up one day and go, you know what? 0.96

00:23:52.460 Buying more unnecessary plastic crap is not making me any happier.

00:23:57.540 And, and, and it turns out the research on happiness tells us that the stuff that actually 0.92

00:24:02.200 makes us happy is relatively simple.

00:24:04.200 And to be honest, not all that expensive.

00:24:06.700 It's experiences with people we love.

00:24:08.700 Now you can have really expensive experiences.

00:24:10.660 You can also have pretty basic, like an evening walk with your wife.

00:24:14.860 It's a massive, a little bit of time with your kids.

00:24:17.740 When's the last time your kids cared where they were when they spent time with you?

00:24:22.440 You want an interesting experience after, you know, 12 months, ask your kids what their

00:24:26.380 most favorite thing they did that year was.

00:24:29.300 I mean, yeah, it's, it's, go ahead, go ahead, sorry.

00:24:31.740 It's crazy.

00:24:32.100 I mean, we went to France one year just because it happened to work out.

00:24:35.680 And at the end of the year, I asked my nine-year-old daughter what her favorite thing was.

00:24:38.880 She did that once that year.

00:24:40.520 And she was like, hey, remember that time that we were out in the backyard and we were collecting

00:24:44.520 rocks and we found that really cool red one?

00:24:47.120 And I was like, wait, wait, we went to France this year.

00:24:49.520 She's like, I know that was fun too.

00:24:51.860 We actually do that every night at the dinner table.

00:24:53.660 I asked my kids, what was your favorite part of the day?

00:24:55.860 And it's always intriguing to hear their answers because it's, yeah, it's, it's not what money

00:24:59.980 can buy or what gift they got.

00:25:01.560 It's all about just spending time together or just some small experience that they really

00:25:05.360 enjoyed.

00:25:06.300 Yeah, for sure.

00:25:07.200 So I think that's how we get a little out of alignment is we just, we may have never been

00:25:11.320 there in the first place, but then we often forget and that's, that's being human.

00:25:14.980 And we just need to create a system for reminding ourselves.

00:25:19.380 So the premise of the book, one page financial plan, obviously the premise of the book is

00:25:23.580 in the title, right?

00:25:24.300 Creating a plan that's, that's one page.

00:25:26.540 I know that there's people, whether it's advisors or investors that are thinking in

00:25:31.820 themselves, oh yeah, that'd be really nice.

00:25:33.620 But I don't see that being done because we're trained to believe that a financial plan is

00:25:37.720 this, you know, thick three ring binder and it's got, you know, all kinds of different

00:25:42.180 reports, Monte Carlo simulations and all of that fun stuff in there.

00:25:46.460 So my question is, can it really be done and what does it look like?

00:25:50.300 Yeah.

00:25:50.640 And, and again, it's, uh, you know, look the, it's true.

00:25:54.140 There's a lot more research that goes into all the decisions you're making, you know, like

00:25:58.220 there's going to be 20 pages worth of stuff about your life insurance and there's going

00:26:01.800 to be a mortgage document and there's, you know, and, and, and so the, the idea behind

00:26:08.600 the one page was if I've, I've found people get so committed to the plan that they forget

00:26:17.860 to be committed to the process of planning.

00:26:20.220 And that leads to a lot of disappointments because I can't tell you how many two inch

00:26:25.300 thick financial plans I've seen used as doorstops, right?

00:26:28.600 Like you did, like, cause everybody knows the moment you walk out the door, that plan

00:26:33.340 is wrong because it's full of assumptions, right?

00:26:37.280 It's full of assumptions that are clearly going to be off.

00:26:39.800 It's a little bit like a flight plan.

00:26:41.440 Like every pilot I know, every pilot I've ever asked, do you create a flight plan?

00:26:45.980 Every one of them says, yes, pretty detailed flight plan.

00:26:49.160 And then when you say, how many times has the flight gone exactly according to plan?

00:26:53.700 And every single time the answer is zero, right?

00:26:56.720 Like you take off, the wind was a little different than you thought, you know, whatever.

00:27:00.240 So, so it's the same with financial planning.

00:27:02.340 So the idea of the one page financial plan is sort of the, it's, it's kind of the picture

00:27:06.080 on the front of the box, right?

00:27:08.640 It doesn't mean that there's not a 20 page instruction manual inside the box.

00:27:13.420 It's the picture on the front.

00:27:14.520 Like when you're putting together a kid's toy, the 60 page manual may be helpful, but what's

00:27:19.120 most helpful to, in fact, it's incredibly helpful.

00:27:21.560 What's most helpful to me though, is the picture on the front of the box, because it tells me

00:27:25.500 if I'm headed in the right direction.

00:27:28.880 So on the one page, like on my wife and I's, our one page financial plan, which I have here

00:27:34.600 in the office, it just simply says, spend time outside with our kids and serve in the

00:27:40.040 community.

00:27:40.720 Like that's our value.

00:27:41.880 That's, that's our most important, that's why we're doing everything else.

00:27:45.420 But underneath it, it just has three things right now.

00:27:48.040 And these things change, which is why I think one page with a Sharpie is important.

00:27:52.780 You don't have to be too committed to it.

00:27:54.500 It's not like you carved it out of stone, right?

00:27:56.540 Like you can change it.

00:27:58.540 And, and it, it, it, it leads us to, it, it suggests to the mind that this is a process

00:28:05.440 that is changeable.

00:28:06.260 You tear it up and make a new one.

00:28:07.420 Our three things are right now, fully fund our retirement accounts.

00:28:11.040 That's one of our goals, put money away each year for the kid's education and save money

00:28:16.900 for a house.

00:28:18.640 Now, 10 years ago or five years ago, or even three years ago, those, those were different.

00:28:23.640 They've been the same for probably two years.

00:28:25.720 And I bet they'll be the same for another couple of years.

00:28:27.940 But when they aren't, guess what?

00:28:29.640 It's one page.

00:28:30.940 It was done with a Sharpie.

00:28:31.980 I'll upload another page.

00:28:32.740 I'll do it.

00:28:33.340 Now is the underlying stuff on our life insurance that are, you know, do we still have the other?

00:28:38.060 Yes, of course we still have the other documents.

00:28:39.760 So don't, don't get confused in terms of, I don't think all that other stuff can be reduced

00:28:44.880 to one page.

00:28:45.580 But to me, this is the document that I'm committed to.

00:28:49.860 It's the one I'm committed to changing and updating and looking at.

00:28:52.760 So whenever a major decision, hey, should I invest in that business?

00:28:56.600 Hey, should I buy that piece of real estate?

00:28:58.260 My wife just says, hey, pull out that one page plan you have on the desk and tell me what 1.00

00:29:02.340 it says.

00:29:03.100 And I tell her and she goes, oh, sounds like we shouldn't invest in that business.

00:29:06.060 Sounds like we shouldn't buy that real estate.

00:29:07.440 Yeah, it's a good, it's a good measuring stick, right?

00:29:10.720 Against some of the decisions that you're going to be making in your life.

00:29:13.580 Or a touchstone, right? 1.00

00:29:15.100 To ground you when you're thinking of doing something stupid. 1.00

00:29:18.100 Right. 1.00

00:29:18.860 Good, good point.

00:29:20.080 So you talk a lot about in the book, not, not a whole lot of need for precision when

00:29:24.960 it comes to this plan.

00:29:26.020 And I think there's a lot of us who tend to be more analytical.

00:29:28.500 And how do you come to come to terms or come to grasp with, hey, maybe you don't need to

00:29:33.860 be as precise and get this paralysis by analysis and just focus on getting the basics, the simplistic

00:29:39.900 stuff right so that you can move forward.

00:29:41.800 How do you how do you get to that point?

00:29:43.960 I think you just get real.

00:29:46.640 Because this false sense of precision we all have in the financial planning industry is

00:29:52.440 really funny.

00:29:53.540 Because at the end of the day, these are guesses.

00:29:57.860 And I think calling them that, again, suggests to sort of the mind and ourselves, like it

00:30:03.220 allows us to relax a little bit.

00:30:04.760 Look, they're guesses.

00:30:05.620 Like, what are your utility bills going to be 20 years from now?

00:30:08.600 It's a guess.

00:30:09.520 Like, we're going to make the best guess we can.

00:30:11.420 It's fine.

00:30:11.760 I mean, we've got to put a date of death in your financial plan.

00:30:15.420 Like, tell me how anybody's precise about that.

00:30:18.600 So I think you just, let's just be real.

00:30:22.840 Like, let's make some best guesses we can.

00:30:25.380 You know, like, like interest rates.

00:30:27.220 What's the best guess of future interest rates?

00:30:29.360 It turns out the best indication of future interest rates are today's rates.

00:30:32.540 In other words, nobody knows.

00:30:34.700 Right.

00:30:34.980 Right.

00:30:35.240 So like, what are stock market returns going to be?

00:30:37.500 Well, let's use the last 84 years as a guide, right?

00:30:39.920 Like, I don't know how to be any better than the weighty evidence of history.

00:30:43.580 You know, like, we don't need to get all tied up in this.

00:30:45.800 Let's make the best guess we can and move forward.

00:30:47.720 Because I run into, I mean, I've got a lot of really, really smart friends.

00:30:53.180 And all of them, I mean, the problem we all have often is we want the best answer.

00:30:57.860 Right.

00:30:58.860 Well, then we spend all this time on the best.

00:31:01.260 And we don't realize that, like, look, a good answer might be good enough.

00:31:04.680 And let's get moving.

00:31:05.500 So is guessing, in your opinion, then, just us trying to get comfortable with the unknown, the future, and the uncertainty of it?

00:31:15.020 Yeah.

00:31:15.440 I mean, I use that word really, really unparalleled.

00:31:17.280 I love that word.

00:31:18.220 I love replacing forecast, you know, analysis with guess.

00:31:22.300 And just thinking, now, that doesn't mean we don't need to guess.

00:31:26.940 And it doesn't mean we should make the best guess we can.

00:31:29.100 But it means we should be committed to the process of guessing, realizing we're going to be wrong, updating the guess, realizing we're going to be wrong, updating the guess.

00:31:36.880 Because isn't that, that's reality.

00:31:38.520 That's like life.

00:31:39.780 I mean, if you want to just double check what I'm saying, make somebody, you've got to have somebody hold you accountable.

00:31:47.300 Because you've got to be honest about this.

00:31:49.620 But go back, try going back 10 years.

00:31:54.620 And if you can find something, like, in your journal or anything, and tell me what you thought you would be doing today.

00:32:01.700 Like, or in other words, like, right now, why don't you write down what you think you're going to be doing 10 years from now?

00:32:08.480 Based on your experience the last 10 years, how likely do you think that's going to turn?

00:32:12.280 I mean, I had no idea what I would be doing 10 years ago.

00:32:16.920 I would have never cared.

00:32:17.680 And that's what makes it exciting, too, though, right?

00:32:19.560 Yeah, well, I think that's the cool part.

00:32:21.300 Like, sometimes we get so scared about it, like, the uncertainty is just overwhelming.

00:32:25.100 I think the cool part is if we learn to accept it as what it is, which is life, it's the beautiful piece of life.

00:32:31.660 Like, does that mean we sit in a cave and meditate?

00:32:34.420 No, I'm not saying that.

00:32:35.340 I'm just saying, let's make a guess.

00:32:37.580 Let's put it out there.

00:32:38.440 Let's move with all of our intention and energy towards that guess.

00:32:43.200 And then let's realize, like, let's not be too terribly disappointed when the guess changes.

00:32:47.800 Oh, you know what?

00:32:49.240 Turns out I didn't want that as much as I thought.

00:32:51.180 Or that didn't work out that way.

00:32:53.480 And look, I got a new guess.

00:32:54.700 I'm moving forward.

00:32:55.800 I think that's a beautiful, wonderful way to live life.

00:33:00.340 And isn't that a lot of freedom?

00:33:01.700 You know, what's interesting is I had a conversation.

00:33:03.520 I was on a podcast being interviewed earlier in the week, and the person interviewing me

00:33:08.600 said something along the lines of, you know, what are you going to be doing in five years?

00:33:12.980 And my first and knee-jerk reaction was, I don't know.

00:33:16.960 And I think it kind of took her by surprise a little bit because she anticipated, I'd say,

00:33:21.000 some great plan with my business or whatever it may be.

00:33:23.260 But I think when we allow ourselves freedom to explore different options and different avenues

00:33:28.400 and don't pigeonhole ourselves into a plan, it allows us to explore things that maybe we've

00:33:34.580 always wanted to but never had permission to do it.

00:33:38.480 Yeah, I really, I mean, I've got a mentor who's just an amazing guy.

00:33:43.500 And he has these three rules.

00:33:45.920 And I can't remember all of them right now.

00:33:47.540 But the first one is show up.

00:33:49.360 The second one is, actually I can't, show up, embrace uncertainty, and ask yourself what

00:33:57.740 is to be done next.

00:33:59.980 And I think if we live our lives that way, like right now I kind of have a sense of what's

00:34:04.500 to be done next for me.

00:34:05.900 Like I know kind of what the next project is after the book comes out, and I want to head

00:34:10.720 that direction, and I'm just going to say what's to be done next.

00:34:14.120 And I didn't have that plan.

00:34:16.340 I mean, I had this idea has been rattling around in my head for a couple of years, but

00:34:21.020 I didn't think I was going to do it.

00:34:22.480 But it's becoming more and more clear, like, and some things are falling into place.

00:34:25.980 And I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, I guess that is what is to be done next.

00:34:29.000 And then I'll feel that for a while, and it will be great.

00:34:33.220 And then I'll wake up and say, okay, I don't really know, but what is to be done next?

00:34:37.260 And I think if we show up that way, really cool things happen.

00:34:41.460 And we let go of the, oh, but what if, what if, what if?

00:34:44.100 No, no, no, it was a guess.

00:34:46.000 Let's just move forward.

00:34:47.900 Nice.

00:34:48.280 I like that.

00:34:49.000 I like that.

00:34:49.840 So one of the things you said a while back is you said that if you were to create a bad

00:34:55.560 investor, you would create a human being.

00:34:58.360 Right.

00:34:58.680 So I've got some of my own ideas on some of the pitfalls or things that we fall into

00:35:05.180 as humans.

00:35:06.260 When you say that, what are some of the things that people are doing to become bad investors?

00:35:12.660 Yeah.

00:35:12.900 And I don't think you have to do anything to become one.

00:35:15.780 I think you're probably most of us by nature.

00:35:18.200 Yeah.

00:35:18.300 Most of us are actually kind of born as one.

00:35:20.880 And it's pretty easy, right?

00:35:22.720 Like you, we take, we have a tendency to take the recent past and project it indefinitely

00:35:26.980 into the future, right?

00:35:28.460 Like we, we've had a terrible snow year in Utah.

00:35:30.840 And so for sure, the next 10 years are going to be terrible.

00:35:35.080 And we project that.

00:35:36.520 Now that may or may not be true.

00:35:37.780 I don't know.

00:35:38.360 But, but I just know that we take the recent past.

00:35:40.800 Here's another example from the finance world.

00:35:42.380 I got a bonus the last three years in a row.

00:35:44.600 So I, therefore, for sure, I'm going to get a bonus next year.

00:35:48.700 In fact, I'm so sure of it that I can buy this new house that I can only afford if I

00:35:54.280 get that bonus, because I know I'm going to get it, right?

00:35:56.960 Like that's a really easy thing to do.

00:35:58.620 Like we'd never say it that way, but we're doing that.

00:36:01.500 We do the same thing with investing.

00:36:04.160 The market's gone up a bunch.

00:36:06.460 Like right now, it's so crazy to hear how excited everybody is about real estate again.

00:36:11.240 Right.

00:36:11.800 Like it's just like.

00:36:12.440 It wasn't that long ago, yeah.

00:36:13.500 Oh my gosh, it was just five years ago that it was never.

00:36:16.680 I mean, it was just, yeah, five, six, seven years ago.

00:36:19.100 You would never buy real estate again, like ever.

00:36:22.080 And it's the same thing with the stock market.

00:36:23.820 I keep, I keep quotes.

00:36:25.500 I keep a financial pornography file and I, I, I cut out quotes of people.

00:36:29.920 I have, I have a whole file full of quotes saying, I will never invest in the stock market

00:36:34.480 again.

00:36:35.920 Right.

00:36:36.380 From, and then I, I, I know those people are excited again.

00:36:40.300 In fact, they're not only excited, they're getting over exuberant.

00:36:43.120 So why?

00:36:44.080 Because everybody else is around us and the recent past has changed.

00:36:47.220 So we forget pain.

00:36:49.280 We, we naturally, this is another one, right?

00:36:51.960 We naturally want more of the things that give us security or pleasure.

00:36:56.600 And we want to get away from things that cause us pain as fast as possible.

00:37:01.620 Now that's kept us alive, right?

00:37:04.820 Like that would be getting away from the lion, but it's not good when it comes to investing.

00:37:09.380 What that leads to investing, can you imagine going to buy a new car and you show up, like

00:37:14.320 you need a new Ford F-150, right?

00:37:16.100 And you show up and the dealer says, great news, Carl.

00:37:20.120 We just marked it up 30%.

00:37:22.100 And you respond, awesome.

00:37:24.980 I'll take three.

00:37:27.720 Right.

00:37:28.400 But we do that in the equity markets all the time, the stock market.

00:37:31.080 Hey, the market's up.

00:37:32.060 We'll buy.

00:37:32.280 So anyway, those are some of the things we do.

00:37:34.280 And it's just, it's just because it's, it's kept us alive as a species, but it works against

00:37:39.460 us when it comes to investing in money.

00:37:43.080 So one of the thing, I guess three of the things that I see a lot is people trying to

00:37:46.400 time the market, when to get in, when to get out.

00:37:48.920 They also look at, you know, what's done well over the past year or five years or 10 years

00:37:53.480 and assume that it's going to continue to do well.

00:37:55.100 And then the third thing I see a lot of is people picking individual stocks, not because

00:37:59.520 of some knowledge they have, but just because they like their iPads, they want to buy Apple

00:38:04.820 stock or they like going to Starbucks.

00:38:06.240 So they think they should own Starbucks.

00:38:08.540 Yeah.

00:38:08.760 Ask your, ask your favorite friend with his BlackBerry, how well that goes.

00:38:13.300 Right.

00:38:13.680 Yeah.

00:38:13.820 Exactly.

00:38:14.560 It's totally, it's totally true.

00:38:16.020 Like there, but there's, you know, the, the, the world is littered with the exact opposite,

00:38:20.680 you know, um, of, of things just because it, so yeah.

00:38:24.880 And that's a misunderstanding.

00:38:26.240 That last one's a misunderstanding of Peter Lynch's book.

00:38:29.520 Um, cause he always, you know, he talked about knowing, owning what you know, what you own

00:38:34.680 and get really excited about it.

00:38:36.260 But that, and, and Buffett's talked about the same thing.

00:38:39.000 And the dilemma of course, is that for those guys, that was a starting point, you know,

00:38:44.300 just a starting point.

00:38:45.540 Like it piqued his interest that he went to Dunkin Donuts every morning and he thought,

00:38:48.880 Hey, I should research this now.

00:38:51.340 And, and so the question I have for you, if you're buying something based on like the iPad

00:38:55.100 example, just, just one simple question.

00:38:57.560 Have you even pulled up, I mean, you shouldn't be buying individual stocks anyway.

00:39:04.040 So it's not like if you can answer yes to this, you should feel good about yourself.

00:39:06.880 But have you pulled up their Apple's annual report, right?

00:39:10.240 And 99% of the people that buy Apple stock because their iPad is so awesome, haven't even

00:39:15.060 read an annual report.

00:39:16.380 So to say that you think the company's good because you love the iPad is just totally crazy.

00:39:22.280 Well, you know what I think is interesting is, is that's exciting.

00:39:25.740 Like it's exciting to do that, or it's exciting to say, I'm an investor, you know, and do those

00:39:30.100 things and take those unnecessary risks.

00:39:31.960 But you say the exact opposite.

00:39:33.560 You say that, I think I read in the books or maybe even saw an illustration that you

00:39:38.880 compared successful investing to watching grass grow.

00:39:44.360 So tell me about that.

00:39:45.760 Tell me why successful investing should be boring.

00:39:47.820 Yeah, I think when you understand, when you understand the difference between speculation

00:39:57.800 and entertainment and investing, then you, then you get an idea, right?

00:40:04.720 Investing is about buying something at a, investing is about buying something at a low price

00:40:13.360 and expecting it to go up in value.

00:40:16.920 I'm using those words very carefully, low price, expecting it to go up in value so that

00:40:21.260 you can sell it sometime way down in the future at a higher price.

00:40:26.680 Speculating is about buying something at a certain price and expecting it to go up or

00:40:31.220 down based on how you want to bet.

00:40:32.580 So you can sell it at another price.

00:40:34.540 It has very little to do with the underlying value.

00:40:37.620 So when we understand, when we understand that, then we start to sort through like none

00:40:43.220 of this stuff really matters.

00:40:44.520 I mean, all that matters is we buy a broad swath of the world's greatest companies, you

00:40:50.920 know, a very diversified mutual fund, something akin to a low cost index fund, something like

00:40:55.520 that.

00:40:56.060 And we hold on to it for a long, long time.

00:40:59.040 Okay.

00:40:59.520 How much energy does that take?

00:41:01.340 None.

00:41:02.040 Right now you can focus on making the money to put in the investment.

00:41:04.700 I think sometimes we confuse action with prudence.

00:41:09.800 I think sometimes we think, hey, if we make decisions or we're buying and selling and doing

00:41:13.440 all these things, then we're being prudent with our money.

00:41:15.600 Do you run across that?

00:41:17.180 Yeah, I think we confuse action with results, right?

00:41:19.680 Same thing.

00:41:20.380 I totally, totally agree.

00:41:22.960 Well, Carl, this has been such a good interview.

00:41:24.760 We went through a ton of financial information.

00:41:26.820 If those that are listening today want to learn more about you, what you're doing, I know you're

00:41:31.940 going to be at FinCon later this year.

00:41:34.040 You're talking there.

00:41:35.700 I'm going to be there for that.

00:41:36.680 So I'm excited.

00:41:38.840 And if they want to get the book, how do they get in touch with you and how do they do that?

00:41:42.540 So the best place is to just go to Behavior Gap, behaviorgap.com.

00:41:49.220 And, you know, there's plenty of information there, but people always ask, like, how do I

00:41:53.020 keep up with the stuff you're doing?

00:41:54.620 We put out a weekly newsletter, which is just highly curated ideas for people who use money.

00:42:00.080 So just sign up for the newsletter.

00:42:01.800 It's free.

00:42:02.340 And we always put links into stuff that I think is interesting and stuff I'm doing.

00:42:06.060 And then the book, of course, One Page Financial Plan is on sale.

00:42:11.440 Well, pre-orders today.

00:42:12.820 You know, now it's on sale.

00:42:15.300 I mean, it's actually published on Tuesday of next week.

00:42:18.980 And you can get that at your local bookstore.

00:42:21.380 I'm a huge fan of local bookstores, but Amazon's open 24 hours a day as well.

00:42:25.960 Awesome.

00:42:26.800 Well, Carl, we appreciate you being on the show.

00:42:28.720 So glad to have you here and provide all that valuable advice.

00:42:31.860 And we'll make links to the show notes with how you can contact and reach out to Carl.

00:42:35.880 Yeah, you can get the book and how you can get the newsletter.

00:42:38.300 I know I get the newsletter, and I get that every couple of days or whatever it may be.

00:42:41.740 And I read every single one of those.

00:42:43.280 It's always some good information.

00:42:45.000 Well, thank you, Ryan.

00:42:45.880 It's been a pleasure.

00:42:47.080 And it's really, really clear that you put a lot of thought into the work you're doing.

00:42:50.680 So thank you.

00:42:51.260 As always, guys, another amazing episode with an incredible guest.

00:42:55.220 This one was jam-packed with steps that you can take to get your money on track.

00:43:00.720 In talking a bit more with Carl, he has generously agreed to give away two copies of his new book

00:43:05.040 to you, our listeners, The One Page Financial Plan.

00:43:08.340 I've read both of Carl's books, and they are both must-reads if the world of personal finance

00:43:12.860 is intriguing to you.

00:43:14.520 So in order to qualify for that, all that I ask is you leave us a rating review on iTunes,

00:43:18.260 and then shoot me an email or post on our Facebook page with a screenshot of your review,

00:43:23.220 and you're entered for our drawing on the 28th.

00:43:25.620 The winners, I will mail those copies of the book, The One Page Financial Plan.

00:43:29.760 Keep in mind, guys, that you can find all of the show notes from this episode, including

00:43:33.120 the links and resources mentioned at orderofman.com slash 005.

00:43:37.760 Now, next week, I've got a great interview with a man who is living a life of influence,

00:43:41.900 and he's going to share with us how we can get more of what we want by improving our

00:43:46.600 skills in influence.

00:43:48.060 So make sure you don't miss that by subscribing to the show at orderofman.com slash iTunes.

00:43:52.960 And of course, if you know of any man you think could benefit from the ideas and the

00:43:56.520 strategies we share, please feel free to share.

00:43:59.440 Thanks again for being here today, and I will look forward to being with you next week.

00:44:04.380 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

00:44:07.360 If you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be,

00:44:11.380 we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

00:44:18.060 Thank you.

00:44:18.960 Thank you.

Order of Man - April 21, 2015

OoM 005： A Financial Plan in One Page with Carl Richards

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