Order of Man - OoM 007： How to Make the Entrepreneurial Leap with Ever Gonazalez

00:00:00.000 The statistic says that up to 60 to 70 percent of people are dissatisfied with their careers.

00:00:05.220 Is that you? If so, you'll love the show we have lined up today. My guest Ever Gonzales

00:00:09.400 shares with us how we can make a successful transition from a dissatisfied work experience

00:00:14.000 to the life we love. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears

00:00:19.660 and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every

00:00:25.420 time. You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life.

00:00:32.360 This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:38.540 you can call yourself a man. Thanks again for joining us on the Order of Man podcast. My name

00:00:46.180 is Ryan Mickler, and as always, I'm excited to be here with you today. Just a couple of housekeeping

00:00:50.320 notes. The first thing that I wanted to do is remind you that Mother's Day is coming up.

00:00:54.700 It's Sunday the 10th, 2015. I am a huge believer that women have a very real role in helping men

00:01:01.120 reach their full potential. So with that, guys, do not, do not forget to honor the women in your

00:01:06.460 life that have played a part in making you the man that you are today. It would be a huge mistake to

00:01:11.900 forget. So you can thank me later, and if you really want to thank me, you can show me some love

00:01:16.520 and appreciation by leaving us a rating and review for the podcast at orderofman.com slash iTunes.

00:01:22.500 As always, you can find show notes for this episode with an overview of the show,

00:01:26.460 the links, and how you can reach our guest at orderofman.com slash 007. Now, I'd like to

00:01:32.600 introduce you to our guest today. Ever Gonzales is a serial entrepreneur and is currently the founder

00:01:38.380 and CEO of Outlier, which is an online publication, a physical co-working space, and an amazing conference

00:01:45.760 series that I've personally been to, which is geared towards establishing startups and entrepreneurs.

00:01:50.700 He's a true outlier, and I know that Ever has always enjoyed taking the road less traveled

00:01:55.720 in his business and also every aspect of his life. He has a passion for helping the next generation of

00:02:01.260 entrepreneurs, and that's what he's here to talk with us about today. All right, Ever, thank you so

00:02:07.020 much for joining us. I'm glad that you're here today. Hey, thanks for having me, Ryan. I'm really

00:02:10.920 looking forward to this chat. I think we're going to have a good conversation for those guys who maybe

00:02:15.220 feel a little bit stuck and want to escape that corporate environment or that career-type

00:02:22.560 environment and go out on their own, and I think you're the perfect guy to discuss and have a

00:02:25.480 conversation about that. I'm looking forward to it. So tell me a little bit about what you're doing

00:02:29.800 with Outliers now. Tell me a little bit about what that is. Yeah, so Outlier, we have Outlier Inc.,

00:02:36.420 which is kind of the mother company for Outlier Magazine slash podcast, and then Outlier Labs and

00:02:43.260 Outlier Conference Series. Everything we do is geared towards helping entrepreneurs either start,

00:02:49.340 grow, or scale their businesses. With the labs, it's a physical space here in southern Utah.

00:02:55.560 For 50 bucks a month, we invite entrepreneurs from the city to kind of come in and have a professional

00:03:01.740 working environment. We have meetups and summits all the time to kind of help them by bringing in

00:03:09.020 experts to talk about the different things that it takes to either start or grow a business.

00:03:15.620 The conference series as well, we have conferences on a regular basis. At least we're trying to get

00:03:21.740 two big conferences a year, and so we bring in keynote speakers. We have workshops, and again,

00:03:29.240 it's everything to do with helping the young entrepreneurs and startups kind of get to the next

00:03:35.680 level. And then my baby here, which I spend most of my time with, is the magazine and the podcast.

00:03:42.560 With the podcast, we interview entrepreneurs from all over the world, and we just kind of get their

00:03:48.820 story. We like to find out who they are, the company they're working for, how they got started,

00:03:54.160 the good, the bad, and the ugly of being an entrepreneur. And then kind of towards the end,

00:03:58.980 we like to kind of leave the audience with a few words of wisdom from our interviewee with their

00:04:09.520 experience, saying, hey, I'm an expert in sales. This is what I suggest you do in order to get the

00:04:15.060 most bang for your buck from your sales guys or whatever, right? I'm an engineer. This is what

00:04:21.660 you should be doing. And it's working well. So I know you've literally had hundreds of conversations

00:04:26.960 with entrepreneurs. And so I'm so excited to get into this because you'll be able to tell us what's

00:04:31.200 working well, what isn't. So for those guys who are looking at making a change, what are some of

00:04:35.180 the things they can get doing? So we'll get into that. But before we do, I know a little bit about

00:04:39.380 your background because we've known each other for several years, which is completely different than

00:04:43.540 what you're doing now. So tell me a little bit about that transition or what you were doing before

00:04:47.740 and then why and how you transitioned into what you're doing now with Outlier and all the things that

00:04:51.700 you have going on. Absolutely. Yeah. My background is in logistics. So I ran a freight management

00:04:57.780 company for a few years before I started Outliers. So I would negotiate contracts between my clients,

00:05:04.580 you know, their manufacturers or anybody that shipped anything and the trucking companies and the

00:05:10.140 airlines. So I would kind of go out, wine and dine and kind of get to know manufacturers all over the

00:05:17.580 U.S. and then kind of bring them onto our network because of the network that I was able to build.

00:05:23.740 Then we would go out to the trucking companies and say, hey, instead of just shipping 100 shipments

00:05:28.460 a week, now we have a thousand shipments a week. How about you give my company, the third party,

00:05:34.840 a discount? We would turn around and give our clients a cheaper rate. We would provide them with

00:05:40.620 software to be able to track and trace all of their shipments. We would give them access to

00:05:45.920 reporting on a daily basis so they could run reports on a daily, weekly or monthly, which worked

00:05:52.020 well with visibility for some of these smaller manufacturers that were doing business. It was

00:05:58.400 the first time that they kind of were able to keep track of all of the things that they were doing,

00:06:02.700 when it delivered, who signed for it, that kind of stuff. And things were going well for a couple

00:06:08.640 of years. And then I just kind of, I don't want to say, I don't want to sound like a jerk and say 0.99

00:06:15.420 it was going too well, but I mean, it was going well enough where I had a lot of free time on my 0.96

00:06:19.640 hands. You know, I spent a lot of time golfing, actually golfing with you as well, right?

00:06:25.120 That's right.

00:06:25.500 I was golfing quite a bit, just kind of hanging out. And then I'm thinking, you know, I'm going to try to

00:06:32.220 figure out what to do so that I'm a little more engaged with the business community. And I like

00:06:38.220 talking to people. I like talking business. So I was thinking, you know what, on the side,

00:06:42.720 I'm just going to throw up a little blog and invite people to kind of come on and I'll email

00:06:49.160 them a list of questions to find out about themselves and their companies. And then I just

00:06:53.380 post their pictures and the response to my questions on the blog. And I was doing that for a few months and

00:06:59.720 it gained a lot of traction. And I was thinking, you know, I might have something here. So I kind

00:07:05.140 of put a little bit more time and effort and resources into it. And it kind of blew up and

00:07:12.080 became what it is now, which is Outlier.

00:07:15.880 Let me ask you a question really quick before you get further than that, because what was your goal?

00:07:22.260 Like when you started and you did this side project, or we hear a lot about this side hustle

00:07:26.920 while you were still with the logistics company that you owned and ran, what was the goal as you

00:07:33.100 were starting that? Or was it purely just a hobby? Yeah, it was just a hobby. The goal was to get to

00:07:38.820 meet interesting people and keep myself occupied doing something that I enjoyed. But in the back of

00:07:45.800 my head, I mean, I was still angling to kind of get more business. And one of the things that I was

00:07:51.500 saying, you know, if it's easier for me to kind of call up at the president of a manufacturing company

00:07:56.540 and say, hey, I would love to interview you for our show or our blog, than it is for me and say,

00:08:02.980 hey, I would love to meet up with you so that I can try to sell you on my logistics services.

00:08:07.360 So I was on the side, I was trying to get in by getting to know them through the interview show.

00:08:16.120 And then I would talk to him about the freight. But I mean, that was, you know, third or fourth

00:08:20.920 on the list of things that I was actually trying to accomplish. But yeah, for the most part, it was

00:08:24.840 just a hobby, something to keep me entertained. And I got to meet a lot of great people that I

00:08:30.080 still keep in touch with, by the way. So in a way, just because of the conversations we've had,

00:08:35.360 I know that you're kind of like your own client, because you're trying to teach other people out

00:08:40.200 there who want to become entrepreneurs or who already are entrepreneurs and want to take it to the next

00:08:44.500 level. And it sounds like that's what you were. I mean, you made this transition. So what were some

00:08:50.160 of the biggest challenges that you had as you started to make this transition more of migration

00:08:55.220 over to outlier as opposed to the logistics company? Yeah, for sure. Well, I, you know, I'm not

00:09:00.200 trained in broadcasting or media, or I don't have any or marketing or any of that type of training or

00:09:07.520 experience, really. Everything I did from the time I was 22 to about 35, I was, it was freight,

00:09:14.300 it was logistics. So one of the biggest challenges was trying to convince the wife to kind of, you 0.99

00:09:21.780 know, convince her to let me or, you know, talk about selling the freight company, which was a

00:09:28.200 steady paycheck and start something that I really knew nothing about. I mean, what do I know about

00:09:34.980 running the magazine back then or a podcast or having this co-working space? I didn't, I didn't know

00:09:40.780 much. Um, but it was something I was passionate about, something that I knew that I I'd be able

00:09:45.660 to do. Um, and so it's, it's, it's working out well. The thing that's, you know, took us all of 2014.

00:09:52.880 I didn't, we didn't pay ourselves. Um, we were, we were building this, this, this platform, uh, to be

00:10:01.080 able to be in a position now in 2015, where we have an audience. Now we have people that are engaging

00:10:06.580 with us on a regular basis. Uh, I feel that we have this voice that can help us be able to get the

00:10:12.180 message across whatever message we want to get across. We'll be able to get across now. Um, and the

00:10:17.440 message that we want to get across right now is whatever you need, uh, in order to kind of quit

00:10:23.720 your nine to five to start your own business finally, or now you're in your own business and

00:10:29.080 you're, you need a little bit of help with expertise or mentorship. That's what we're there for. Whether

00:10:34.240 it's here in Southern Utah or virtually because of our podcast and our articles and, um, eventually our

00:10:41.600 traveling conference series. Uh, this is the message that we're trying to get across. If you want to do

00:10:47.380 it, there are ways to do it. Um, but to kind of get back to answering your question, yeah, the hardest

00:10:52.080 part was trying to figure out if this was just going to be a very cool side project, a very cool

00:10:58.760 hobby, or whether I'd be able to make a business out of it. And so we took a chance and we decided

00:11:05.120 to make a business out of it. So you talked about not having any training or education in this

00:11:10.680 particular field. So obviously there's a huge learning curve when it comes to trying to figure things

00:11:15.120 out. What are you, what did you see as being some of those hurdles or, you know, how did you get

00:11:20.720 that training, that education that you needed and the experience to get you to where you are with

00:11:24.720 outlier in the company now? Yeah, great question. So I, like I said, I didn't have any experience

00:11:29.480 and I knew, um, that if I wanted to make this successful and give it a go, I would need help.

00:11:35.920 Right. So, um, one of the hardest things for me starting this other than, you know,

00:11:40.920 giving a steady paycheck up was, uh, working with people. One of the, I was running my show for a

00:11:47.960 long time. Uh, I love people, but I have a hard time with, you know, managers or bosses telling me

00:11:54.020 what to do, especially if I think that I know how to do it better, which being a young punk kid,

00:11:58.960 I thought I knew better, you know, growing up in my twenties and early thirties. Right. Um,

00:12:03.660 but I knew that I needed help. So I kind of built this little team around me. Uh, and some of them,

00:12:08.240 you know, um, here in Southern Utah to, to help, uh, some of them were focusing on marketing,

00:12:14.260 others on web design, you know, they were the creatives, they were the operations managers.

00:12:19.740 And so we kind of built this little team. Uh, and the hardest thing for me was, um, now working with

00:12:26.540 partners, right? For, for a long time, whatever I said, well, we just did now, not that I have to,

00:12:33.880 I'm the CEO of outlier, not that I have to kind of, um, make everybody or have everybody be on the

00:12:39.220 same page as far as how we move forward. But, uh, I want to be able to communicate with them and

00:12:44.360 kind of help them with the, understand the vision. And, uh, a lot of times I forget that they can't

00:12:50.100 read my mind. Right. And so now, now I have to communicate a little bit better. I have to kind

00:12:55.600 of put the plan out there, um, so that everybody can see it and understand it and not just in my mind.

00:13:00.460 Uh, but not having the experience, um, I brought these people on board and we've, I've just kind

00:13:07.100 of learned as, as, uh, for this past year and a half, you know, we had Melinda Yeaman, who was a

00:13:12.500 great marketer, uh, uh, Justin Jenkins, who was great at the creative side of things. And, um,

00:13:19.360 I'm never going to be a professional marketer. I'm never going to be a professional, um, creative

00:13:25.380 type of person that way, but I've been able to learn enough from them where I know how to do a

00:13:31.100 few things and, but I know what my limits are. So once I know that, Hey, this particular project

00:13:36.900 or this particular thing right here is going to need something, uh, or someone that's, uh, knows

00:13:43.160 more than I do. So I'd like to think that I've learned when to be able to do that instead of

00:13:49.180 kind of doing what most of us entrepreneurs do or thinking that we can do it ourselves,

00:13:53.740 uh, everything right from the marketing to the accounting, to the message, to everything.

00:13:59.480 Uh, we kind of get in that rut thinking I'm going to do it all, but we can't. And one of the most

00:14:05.660 humbling things. And one of the things that I've struggled with most is realizing that and then

00:14:09.240 being able to kind of reach out to others and say, I need help with this. Well, and I think you're

00:14:14.520 right. And I've run into that trap too. And I think part of that too, is that for, for a while

00:14:19.960 or even to a certain degree, we can do it ourselves. But really when we want to start

00:14:24.360 scaling and growing our businesses, the way that we want to grow them, you're right. We have to bring

00:14:28.440 on a team. And I know most of your team personally, and I know that they're great people. So my question

00:14:35.000 is, how do you find those great people to surround yourself? Like how have you done it? And there's

00:14:40.240 few companies out there that I know of personally that have done that, have surrounded themselves

00:14:43.840 with great teams. How do you find those great people?

00:14:47.180 You know, I was thinking about the other day thinking I've been pretty lucky with the team

00:14:51.880 that I was able to build in my logistics company. And then now here with Outlier. I don't know. I

00:14:57.720 think I'd like to think that, you know, even though I'm not the best communicator that I'm able to kind

00:15:03.680 of communicate well enough where people can see and feel who I am, what I do, what I represent.

00:15:09.960 And I think, you know, without getting too touchy-feely, my good karma, the fact that I

00:15:16.640 really care about people attracts other like-minded individuals. And I think Outlier on top of that

00:15:23.940 is such a great message, a great platform that it was easy to kind of sell to my partner saying,

00:15:32.700 this is what I'm trying to create. And then it attracted a lot of people saying, I want to be

00:15:38.080 a part of that. And I had to say no to a few other people just because they weren't going to be a

00:15:43.800 cultural fit. But there were a lot of talented people that said, hey, listen, I see what you're

00:15:47.940 doing. I love what you're doing. How can I be a part of it? But as far as my partners with Melinda

00:15:52.880 and Kim and those guys, they kind of saw the vision and agreed that what we were trying to do

00:16:00.300 was something that was going to be a lot of fun, something that was going to be noble,

00:16:03.920 and we were going to be able to not only help ourselves, but help those around us.

00:16:07.560 Well, and I know that the very first time we met, and this is a testament to what your answer you just

00:16:12.380 gave me, because the very first time we met, I've always, always been impressed with your passion

00:16:17.140 about what you're doing. And from the very first time we met, I'm like, man, that's a guy that I need

00:16:21.180 to be around, because I can see that you're passionate, you're enthusiasm for what you're

00:16:26.780 trying to accomplish. So yeah, I totally agree. I can totally see how having that vibe, for lack

00:16:33.280 of a better term, is a huge motivating factor to drawing people around.

00:16:37.760 Right, I appreciate it. And it's funny, because I feel the same way with you. We've sat for hours

00:16:41.960 and hours just talking business, and we kind of shoot ideas around all the time, and it's fun.

00:16:50.200 And I can tell that the conversations that we have, and I've kind of called you out on a few

00:16:54.760 things, and you've called me out on a few things, and it's great, right? And then we just go grab

00:16:58.420 a burger. I mean, I think that I've told you, hey, I don't think that's a good idea, or I completely

00:17:03.620 disagree. You've done the same. But because we're passionate about what we do, we're passionate

00:17:09.060 about people and their businesses, and maybe some of the mistakes that in our mind we see them

00:17:15.300 making. But because we do it with love, or trying to help, genuinely trying to help, I think that

00:17:22.760 people are okay with that. I would much rather be surrounded by people that are completely honest

00:17:29.180 with me, even when it's a stupid idea, and they're able to tell me that it's a stupid idea, than a 1.00

00:17:34.280 bunch of yes men saying, oh, that's great. Absolutely, let's run with it. I have a hard time with those 1.00

00:17:38.800 type of people, and you know the team that I've been able to build. There's nobody like that in

00:17:43.880 this group, and I think that's why I work so well. Well, and I think you're totally right. It all

00:17:49.260 comes down to motive, right? What is your motive? If my motive is to come and talk with you just to

00:17:53.860 beat you up, then that's going to come across, and that's not going to be a relationship. If my motive

00:17:59.240 is, hey, I want to see you succeed, or vice versa, then I can say just about anything, as long as it's

00:18:04.800 coming from the motive, I want to help, I want to see you succeed. Yeah, for sure. So, well, one of

00:18:10.040 the things you said is you said you didn't pay yourself all of 2014, and I know that's somewhat

00:18:15.120 of a unique circumstance because you were able to sell a logistics company, and I'm sure you had

00:18:19.840 some money from that to be able to rely on and provide some sort of lifestyle. What do you say to

00:18:24.840 the guys who are listening who want to make the leap and make the change, but don't have the

00:18:29.540 financial resources to pull the trigger all at once and not pay themselves for an entire year?

00:18:34.520 Yeah, which happens quite a bit, right? I mean, that's usually the story, that they don't

00:18:38.760 have the resources to be able to do that and take a year to figure it out and take a year

00:18:44.000 to try to build it. So I would say stay at your 9 to 5, but if you're passionate about it

00:18:49.640 and if you truly want to build something, just go do it, right? Don't wait for the perfect

00:18:56.000 opportunity or until you have enough money in the bank to quit your job and then you go start

00:19:01.360 your thing. You know, you're working 9 to 5, 5.30 on, build your company or your project

00:19:06.780 or whatever it is that you're trying to do with your entrepreneurial venture. Just go

00:19:12.700 do it. Don't wait. Don't wait around for somebody to give you permission. Don't wait

00:19:16.560 around for somebody to come and give you a handout. If it's something that you want to

00:19:20.640 do, figure out a way to do it, whether it's waking up early or staying out late. But it's

00:19:26.820 possible. There's no reason why you live in here in the States and in America that that

00:19:33.760 can't happen with a little bit of hard work. Actually, with a lot of hard work.

00:19:38.160 Yeah. Yeah. Make sure you clarify that. So that's one of the things that I think I've seen

00:19:43.680 and even to a degree with my businesses that I've started is that I've seen myself even

00:19:49.280 in a way think, oh, if I just put something out there that's great, it'll work and everything

00:19:53.700 will happen magically. So I know one of the things that I was doing wrong with some of

00:19:58.180 the projects that I've started is thinking that that would be enough when I know that

00:20:01.840 it isn't. And it takes hard work and dedication and long nights, early mornings. What are some

00:20:07.700 of the other things that you see entrepreneurs are doing as they're making that leap? Because

00:20:13.380 I know you've had hundreds, if not thousands of conversations about this very topic. What

00:20:17.460 are some of the mistakes these guys are making as they're going out on their own?

00:20:20.340 Well, not having a clear vision of what they want to do or who their clients are going to

00:20:26.080 be. Those that are going to be paying, who are those people? You're building an app. What

00:20:31.400 kind of people are going to buy that app? Or you're building a service company. What

00:20:35.520 kind of people or companies are going to be using those services? You can build the most

00:20:41.800 beautiful app, but if it doesn't serve a purpose or if it doesn't have an audience, then you're

00:20:47.000 not going to succeed. So first of all, they need to figure out what they're passionate

00:20:51.600 about and if that passion can turn into dollars by either building something or providing that

00:20:58.800 service. So a lot of these guys think that, hey, because I would use it or because I would

00:21:03.600 buy something like this, they think that the rest of the world is going to as well. And

00:21:08.480 that's not the case. I see that type of mistake. Another mistake that I see is these entrepreneurs

00:21:13.740 that are waiting for the perfect opportunity, whether it's to jump ship to their first company

00:21:20.460 or now they have a product or a service, but they haven't pulled the trigger because they're

00:21:27.980 waiting for it to be perfect. Guess what? It's never going to be perfect. I would rather

00:21:32.300 have you guys kind of go out there and test it and do those type of things, but don't wait

00:21:38.300 until it's absolutely perfect because it's never going to be and your opportunity might pass

00:21:43.260 you up. So if you have a, let's say, I mean, let's take apps for, for, uh, for a sec. It's

00:21:48.400 never going to be the perfect app. Put the app out there and let your potential, uh, buyers or

00:21:53.620 people that are going to be using your app tell you what they like and what they dislike and then

00:21:58.240 just tweak it or pivot or completely pivot. Right. How do you get that mindset though? Because I know

00:22:04.620 that's really tough and I know it's hard, especially when you're getting overwhelming

00:22:09.260 criticism versus overwhelming accolades for what you put out there. So how do you change

00:22:14.800 your mindset to say, Hey, I'm not really worried as worried with perfection as much as I am getting

00:22:20.560 something out there and testing a concept. Yeah. Well, that, that, that's where the rub is,

00:22:24.920 right? I mean, that's, that's tough. You don't want to put something out there that's going to be

00:22:28.520 criticized. You don't want to put something out there that's not going to do well. Um, but then again,

00:22:33.220 on, on the other side, if you put some out there that's, that you're waiting for, that's going to be

00:22:37.400 perfect. Uh, that opportunity might've passed you up seven months ago or now you're seven months to a

00:22:42.520 year, uh, behind on something that you could have, uh, switched or, or tweaked or pivoted, uh, early

00:22:49.920 on. Uh, and so, yeah, it's, it's one of those things that it's not easy, but my opinion and my advice

00:22:57.400 would be, uh, as soon as you can possibly have it, you know, your MVP, uh, put it out there and let it

00:23:04.980 be sometimes torn apart by clients or critics, but then take that information, uh, not to heart,

00:23:12.520 but take it and then make a better product or a better, you know, offer better service because of

00:23:16.960 it. So what's given you then some of the staying power that I know you have in the face of, and I,

00:23:24.320 and I don't know how much criticism or anything you've received, but I know that there's always

00:23:27.780 some sort of pushback. So what, what gives you that staying power when you have a down day or a down

00:23:34.060 week or a down launch? What is that driving for you? Yeah. So I, my, the kind of what we talked

00:23:40.560 about already, my whole goal is to be able to help other people, uh, start grow and scale their

00:23:45.140 businesses. And so that's what kind of keeps me motivated. Uh, you know, the older I get,

00:23:49.500 the less I'm motivated by money. Although I love money and I'm a filthy capitalist and I want to be

00:23:54.100 able to make a lot more money again. Uh, but, but right now my goal and my passion is being able to

00:24:00.020 help the guys here at the labs or the people that we interview or our listeners. So when I have a

00:24:05.000 rough day or rough week or even a rough month, knowing that in a small way, we're helping that

00:24:12.620 I'm helping, then that's what keeps me motivated. Uh, you know, not only do they have the magazine

00:24:17.220 and the podcast, but one of the things that I've always done, even when I was younger, uh, I, I consider

00:24:22.360 myself a connector, you know, somebody that, uh, connected individuals together that might be able to work

00:24:29.140 together or be, you know, they're each other's clients, those types of things. Uh, and so being

00:24:34.560 able to see those relationships that I kind of put together, uh, blossom into either new business or

00:24:40.660 new partnerships, that's what keeps me motivated. You know, we're not, I'm not asking for anything in

00:24:44.760 return. I'm not asking for, uh, whatever, right. Favors or anything like that. It just, it, it helps me

00:24:51.560 and it makes me feel good when, uh, I introduce Ryan Mickler to a potential client and then it ends up

00:24:57.520 happening. That's the, that's what keeps me motivated, uh, on a regular basis. Yeah. Cause

00:25:01.220 it's, it hasn't always been easy and it hasn't always been fun. Um, uh, with, with Outlier,

00:25:07.760 uh, there were some dark days with not knowing exactly how we're going to, how we're going to go

00:25:12.620 forward. We had a conference that we, that we canceled, uh, not last minute, but kind of a couple

00:25:19.040 months into the planning of it just because it didn't feel right. It wasn't at the right time or the

00:25:24.020 right venue. And so that was pretty tough being able to, having to tell the rest of the partners

00:25:28.460 and then the people that already bought tickets and, and then the speakers that, Hey, we've decided

00:25:34.380 to put it off to spring. Um, that was not a fun time. Right. Well, I appreciate you sharing that

00:25:40.780 because I think what we tend to believe when we're considering making a change, whether it's to another

00:25:44.860 career type position or out on our own, we always have this, Oh, you know, the grass is greener on the

00:25:49.300 other side mentality. And it certainly can be true. But then the other phrase is the grass is

00:25:55.140 greener where you water. Absolutely. I completely agree. Yeah. So there are great things about

00:26:00.080 working at a corporate job, right? You have a steady paycheck, working with a lot of great people,

00:26:04.660 you know, whatever you're doing, but there are a lot of great things, uh, by going at it on your

00:26:09.220 own, you're able to kind of control it a little bit better. Uh, you're able to build your own team.

00:26:13.180 You're able to, to, to work on the projects that you're passionate about. Uh, but then, you know,

00:26:17.800 you don't have a steady paycheck for a while. You, any day you can shut down. There are pros

00:26:22.980 and cons to everything that you do in life. Right. So, okay. So you talked about the first

00:26:28.600 pitfall that you see is not really having a clearly defined audience. The second one you

00:26:32.600 talked about is being too much of a perfectionist and using it almost as an excuse not to ship,

00:26:37.660 right? Not to get your product out there. Is there anything else you see as a pitfall that

00:26:41.000 we should be aware of? No, just move forward. Even if it's, you know, even if it's in the

00:26:45.300 wrong direction for a little bit, move, do something. I think some of us are paralyzed

00:26:49.900 by fear or, uh, or making decisions. Uh, I know I certainly have not only with Outlier,

00:26:55.860 but starting the freight company, uh, there, there are times when I'm like, shoot, now what?

00:27:01.280 And then I sit on it. I don't do anything in fear of making the wrong decision. And I think

00:27:06.800 that kind of hurt more than if I would have made a decision, even if it was the wrong decision,

00:27:11.400 I would have been able to see it a lot sooner and, and, and kind of tweaked my, the course a

00:27:17.520 little bit to kind of get back on track than just sitting on it for days. Sometimes even weeks on end

00:27:23.200 because I was too afraid to make a decision. Um, I think you're hurt in the, in the long run. Uh,

00:27:28.900 so having fear of making a decision, make something, make a decision. And even if it's the wrong one,

00:27:36.360 then you'll see it sooner than later. And then just correct it. Well, and I think that tends to

00:27:41.360 be the difference between those entrepreneurs, those guys out there who are successful and those

00:27:47.200 who aren't. And in my mind, the guys who are successful, whether it's in their families or

00:27:51.340 their businesses or careers or with their money, it seems to me from my experience and the interviews

00:27:55.820 that I've done is because those guys are the ones willing to take action. They're willing to make

00:28:00.600 a decision. They're willing to move forward. And that's all about, you know, courage and,

00:28:05.620 and strength and everything that it means to be a guy, right? Absolutely. You know,

00:28:08.760 we've interviewed close to 200 people now on our podcast and, and every single one,

00:28:13.500 except for one, and I won't mention any names, but every single person that we've talked to,

00:28:17.720 uh, we asked them the question. So what are, what are some of the low points in your career

00:28:22.220 or some of the mistakes that you made? And again, every single one of them, but one said that,

00:28:27.180 that they all have them. They, they, they're continuing to have those mistakes,

00:28:30.280 but that's part of being an entrepreneur. That's part of running the business.

00:28:33.540 Uh, I think if you're not making mistakes, you're playing it too safe and your, your potential is

00:28:38.540 not, you know, you have a lot more potential, but if you're, you're playing it too close to the

00:28:43.000 line, I think. Which is fine. So I got to know what that other person said out of those hundreds

00:28:48.100 of interviews that you've done. So what was the entrepreneur that said there was no mistakes?

00:28:51.900 He said he's done everything, right? Yeah. So I won't mention any names, but Melinda was

00:28:54.900 interviewing this guy out of Chicago, successful entrepreneur. If I, if we mentioned his name,

00:28:58.820 most of you, um, might not recognize the name, but they would recognize that the company,

00:29:03.460 uh, said, yeah, said something like Melinda asked something like, uh, so, you know, what

00:29:10.460 are some of the setbacks for some of the mistakes that you've made? And he was like, well, not,

00:29:14.520 I not nothing really. I've, I've been successful at everything at everything I've touched. I don't

00:29:19.300 think he meant it to come off as, uh, arrogant as, as, as it, as it did come off. But, uh,

00:29:25.220 I think either he was just, has just been completely lucky or truly is a genius, but

00:29:31.640 he, he truly said, uh, no, I, everything I've touched has been, has worked out.

00:29:37.480 That's interesting. You know what though, do the other side of that? And I don't know the

00:29:40.020 conversation or even who you're talking about, but to the other side of that, it might just be a

00:29:44.340 mind frame of, yeah, I know. I mean, there's gotta be something that's not gone right. And I'm

00:29:50.200 wondering if he's just so focused on, Hey, if something goes wrong, I use it as a learning

00:29:54.400 experience and then I can move forward and then I'm successful because I learned from it.

00:29:57.680 And I think that's what he, at the end, I think that's what he meant. At least that's what I hope

00:30:01.540 he meant where, yeah, Hey, this, this campaign or this part of the company didn't work well or

00:30:07.820 failed, but you're right. I think maybe he's seen it as far as, yeah, it didn't fail, but overall for

00:30:13.980 me, it didn't stop me. It was just learning experience. So hopefully that's what he meant.

00:30:18.380 Right. So, okay. So on the flip side of that, then let's talk about some of the things that

00:30:22.560 you've seen that guys, entrepreneurs are doing extremely well. What are some of those things?

00:30:27.080 You know, there, there are a lot of people with a lot of passion and luckily the, and this could be

00:30:32.340 good and bad. The, the barrier of entry into starting your own business is low, right? You can start a

00:30:38.580 business with your cell phone and your basement and you can do something cool and great, right? Or your

00:30:46.200 laptop or that kind of stuff. You don't need to spend a lot of money on expensive equipment or all that

00:30:51.820 stuff. You just kind of can start literally within 24 hours, right? Doing something. Uh, and so these

00:30:58.620 guys that have this passion, it's, it's, it's great. They can go out there and experiment. And like we've

00:31:04.900 talked about before, uh, put in a little bit of time and a little bit of resource into, uh, starting

00:31:10.660 this. And if it's not for them, they kind of get into it and they don't really, um, like it, then they

00:31:16.760 stop and it's not that big of a deal, right? They didn't spend, they didn't spend a lot of money on,

00:31:20.900 uh, huge warehouses or truckie or trucks or anything like that. They just kind of stop doing

00:31:25.620 it. And it's a learning experience. Uh, I have, uh, one of my close friends here, you know, he's

00:31:31.460 young, he's trying to figure out what, what to do with his life. He has, uh, a specific skillset

00:31:35.720 and he kind of started out thinking that this was what he wanted to do. And he was doing it for

00:31:42.020 quite a while. And, um, in my mind, he was successful. He had a few clients, but then he

00:31:46.180 was like, you know, I, I don't, I like what I do, but I don't like the, the sales part of it or the

00:31:51.560 getting new clients part of it. I just want to be able to do this. And so he kind of shifted a little

00:31:56.200 bit, um, to focus on just the, what he did best. And I think he needed to, to focus on a little bit

00:32:04.480 on the business as well. So now he's doing something completely, completely different,

00:32:08.580 which is, which is fine. He didn't spend too much time or too much, um, too many resources

00:32:13.520 figuring that out. So I think what people are doing well now is they can kind of go out there

00:32:19.040 and test the waters without being out too much time or too much money. And we're seeing that all

00:32:24.140 the time. I mean, being here at the labs, at the outlier labs, uh, on a daily basis, we get all kinds

00:32:30.420 of people coming in with different ideas. Some of them good, some of them bad.

00:32:33.900 Uh, but there is not a shortage of ideas or people willing to take a chance to make it happen

00:32:40.240 out there. Right. Yeah. And you're talking all about adaptability, right? Is, is finding something

00:32:45.680 that you enjoy. But then also one of the things I'm a big proponent of is, is just taking a step

00:32:50.000 back for a minute, occasionally, very often if you can, and just trying to figure out, am I on the

00:32:56.100 right track? And that could be with money or family, or even for me, it's community service. I know

00:33:03.600 that I started to get overwhelmed with as much, um, service and contribution as I was trying to

00:33:08.280 give that I couldn't give full attention to other things I want to do in my life and even, even the

00:33:12.400 other charities that I belong to. So I think you're totally right. It's just evaluating where you're

00:33:16.760 at and making sure that you're still on path for what it is you want to accomplish. Sure. I mean,

00:33:21.140 even with outlier, there've been many times when I'm like, is this the path that I should be on

00:33:26.200 right now? I mean, especially last year when we weren't making any money, sitting there thinking,

00:33:31.780 you know, what am I doing? Am I wasting my time? I don't know what I'm doing with trying to build

00:33:34.880 this media company. I can easily just stop this and go build another freight company or, or get

00:33:41.540 hired as an executive somewhere, um, throughout the, throughout the country and it would be fine.

00:33:47.000 But at the end of the day, as I get older, like I was telling you before, I'm not as motivated by,

00:33:52.760 by money as I was before. I'm motivated by freedom and I'm motivated by the fact that I can, uh, say yes

00:33:59.200 or no to things that come up in my life, right? If, if somebody says, Hey, let's work on this project

00:34:05.140 or, Hey, this is gonna be a lot of money. Let's do this. Uh, I have the freedom to say yes or no. I

00:34:10.580 don't want to be because I'm desperate for money. I don't want to have to take every job that comes at me.

00:34:15.140 I don't have to interview every entrepreneur that wants to be interviewed if I don't think it's a

00:34:19.300 good fit. That's a great position to be in, being able to say yes or no to the different things that

00:34:24.580 come up, uh, not, and not having to do them because either you need the money or it's a boss

00:34:31.200 or anything like that. Um, well, you know, it's funny is as, as you're saying this, I can already

00:34:36.020 hear some men that are listening to this say, and this even used to be me to say, well, man,

00:34:41.560 that's really nice for you, but that's not the boat I'm in, but it can be. Absolutely. And I'm not

00:34:46.920 saying that that being an entrepreneur and having your own startup is for everybody. It's not for

00:34:51.780 everybody. Uh, I've told a few people, Hey, it's probably best that, uh, that you kind of stick to

00:34:57.200 your nine to five at least for a while before you really figure out what to do. Yeah. It's not for

00:35:01.360 everybody. Even if you're working nine to five and you know, a corporate job, you can still build

00:35:05.980 these kinds of freedoms, um, being a regular employee, right? You can be, uh, you can build

00:35:12.880 this within yourself as far as, uh, your time, maybe not work-wise, but you can say yes or no to,

00:35:20.420 um, to the things that you're going to occupy your time with, right? You come home, say no to the TV

00:35:26.600 and work on a project or be with the family or all of that stuff. Nine to five, unfortunately,

00:35:31.860 you're probably stuck there. And even then I think that you can kind of, there's a little bit of a

00:35:35.340 wiggle room. But after that, you're saying about, you're talking about community service. You're

00:35:39.640 talking about just time with the family. Now you're, you're the, the one that's in charge as far

00:35:46.740 as what you can do with your time and, and, and how you spend it, do it, take advantage of it and let

00:35:51.980 it grow into your career as well. It's not going to be overnight, but it's doable. Well, one of the

00:35:58.060 things that it's funny that you mentioned this because I did an interview just a couple of weeks ago,

00:36:01.740 uh, for, for this podcast as well. And we talked a lot about finding your core value. And when you

00:36:08.200 can find your core value and find out what's really important in your life and what it is for you,

00:36:12.960 you almost get to stop this horrible, I think, comparison game where you jump on Facebook and

00:36:19.920 you see what your buddies are doing and you think, Oh, they've got the life. Or you see that this guy

00:36:24.000 started this business and all of a sudden you think you want to be in that exact same business.

00:36:27.800 But if you find your core, you're not so worried about those things. You can find out what's

00:36:31.800 important for you. And what's interesting in my mind and what I've noticed and experienced

00:36:35.740 is when you find your core and you start following that path, that money will come in because you're

00:36:43.400 automatically going to start creating more value because you're doing what's important to you.

00:36:47.500 And money is a, is just an afterthought to the value you've created. So, okay, we're,

00:36:52.640 we're winding down. I got a couple more questions for you. One question that I ask every guest

00:36:56.680 that comes on the show. And I think I told you, I'd ask you this is what do you feel like it means

00:37:02.100 to be a man? Yeah, that's a, that's a good question. You know, growing up, I grew up without

00:37:07.980 a father, um, for since, uh, let's see, I was three years old. So from time, so from three on, um,

00:37:16.940 I didn't have a male figure in my life, uh, up until I was a teenager. Then I had, um, church male figures

00:37:24.480 that kind of took an interest in me and helped me with, with the different things, uh, in life.

00:37:28.860 But yeah, what, what it takes to be a man. I used to, I remember watching those popular shows in the

00:37:34.940 eighties, like Rambo and like, uh, all the Arnold Schwarzenegger movies and, and, you know, being a

00:37:40.680 man was being tough and silent and not having emotions and then just kind of take care of business

00:37:45.300 that way. And I think it's different now, right? I think, uh, I'm certainly not like that. I don't

00:37:49.280 think I've ever been like that, but, but I think to answer your question is not waiting

00:37:55.160 for an invitation to do anything. Don't wait for your boss to tell you to do this and just go do

00:38:00.920 it, right? Don't wait for life to kind of hand you a million dollars. Go make it yourself. Don't,

00:38:07.300 don't sit around and wait. And in my, one of the things that I enjoy the most, and I kind of tell

00:38:14.460 people that, that if they truly want to do it, then, then don't ask for permission.

00:38:21.340 Don't ask for permission. So being a man is, is taking care of your responsibilities and not asking

00:38:26.040 for permission to do the things that, that you need to do or you want to do in your life. Uh,

00:38:31.440 whether it's career or, you know, kind of being with the family or, or anything else like that,

00:38:37.300 that's outside of, uh, of a job. Just go do it. Don't ask for permission.

00:38:41.860 Awesome. I love that. So man of action is absolutely. I love that. I'm on board with

00:38:46.520 action. Absolutely. So, all right. So ever, you've talked a lot about, um, how to make that leap,

00:38:52.600 what, what entrepreneurs are doing, right? Some of the things they're doing wrong,

00:38:55.400 how to be a person of action, how to overcome maybe some of that fear and move forward.

00:39:00.040 If, if those guys that are listening today are liking what you're saying and want to connect with

00:39:05.080 you, how do they go about doing that? Sure. So they can go to our magazine website. So it's,

00:39:08.720 uh, outliermagazine.co that's outliermagazine.co. Uh, they can connect with, uh, us on Twitter,

00:39:14.940 which is at outlier mag, and they can connect with me personally on Twitter at underscore ever

00:39:21.700 Gonzalez. That's what two Z's. Uh, and then we, uh, I'm on Facebook, I'm on LinkedIn. Uh, you can 0.95

00:39:28.380 just type my name in and I would be more than happy to connect with, with your audience and,

00:39:32.400 you know, hop on a call or exchange emails and just kind of chat about life and being a man and

00:39:38.440 starting different companies for sure. Awesome. Thank you. Or connecting them with the people

00:39:42.080 that they need, uh, that they want to be connected to in, in my network. I would be more than happy

00:39:47.480 to do that. Awesome. Everett, thank you so much for the insights. We'll make sure all the links

00:39:52.800 in the, uh, in the notes and everything that we went through will be on the show notes page. So

00:39:58.000 Everett, thanks again for being on the show. And it was a lot of fun. Thank you very much.

00:40:01.440 There you have it guys, Mr. Everett Gonzalez. If you're a man who's ready to make the leap or

00:40:05.920 at a minimum, get the million dollar idea going, I highly encourage you to connect with

00:40:10.380 ever. He has been instrumental in helping me personally flush out the idea for order of

00:40:15.560 man and a few other projects that I'm working on. Again, you can find all of the show notes

00:40:19.040 from this episode, including the links and resources mentioned at order of man.com slash

00:40:23.120 zero zero seven. Now next week, I've got another incredible interview lined up with a man who

00:40:27.960 is living a life of learning. He's going to share with us why curiosity is your best ally and

00:40:33.960 how you can make a quest for learning the catalyst for growth in your life. So make sure you don't

00:40:39.340 miss that. You can subscribe to the show at order of man.com slash iTunes. And if you know

00:40:44.520 of a man who you think could benefit from this show or any of the other shows that we've had

00:40:48.800 already, then we encourage you to share this show. Please feel free to pass it along. Thanks

00:40:53.780 again for being here with us today. And I will look forward to being with you here next week.

00:40:57.680 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

00:41:03.300 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - May 05, 2015

OoM 007： How to Make the Entrepreneurial Leap with Ever Gonazalez

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