Order of Man - OoM 008： How to Become a Better Leader with Ryan Hawk

00:00:00.000 There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that you've had a bad experience with a horrible boss,

00:00:05.140 manager, or employer. It seems like solid, strong leaders are few and far between.

00:00:10.520 In this episode, I talk with Ryan Hawk from the Learning Leader Podcast about what it takes to

00:00:15.100 be an effective leader, how you can improve your leadership skills, and why all the great leaders

00:00:19.780 are continually learning. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears,

00:00:26.060 and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time,

00:00:32.560 you are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is

00:00:39.200 who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:44.920 you can call yourself a man. Men, welcome to the Order Man Podcast. My name is Ryan Mickler,

00:00:51.240 and as always, I'm glad that you're here with us today. We're going to be talking about one of the

00:00:55.280 most important skills that you need to learn to develop, and that is leadership. But before we

00:01:00.900 get into that, I want to make you aware of the Order of Man YouTube channel, which you can check

00:01:05.440 out at youtube.com slash orderofman. I just released an episode today on why men need to stop worrying

00:01:11.420 about minimum wage. Be sure to check that out. Now, before we meet our guest today, I also want to let

00:01:16.800 you know that you can check out the show notes for this show at orderofman.com slash 008.

00:01:24.020 Now, my guest today is Ryan Hawk. Ryan is the host of The Learning Leader, a show designed to interview

00:01:31.260 world-class leaders. He's a former college and even arena football quarterback, and he is passionate

00:01:37.580 about his leadership development journey. His experience in sales and corporate leadership,

00:01:42.360 and also his time on the football field has led him to his passion, which is to learn from other

00:01:47.420 great and inspiring leaders, and of course, help others do the same. Ryan, I'm stoked to have you on

00:01:51.840 the show. Thanks for joining me today. Thank you, Ryan, man. I'm absolutely pumped to be here. I'm a

00:01:57.120 fan of your show. I listen to it and a fan of your story as well, so thank you for having me.

00:02:02.380 Yeah, I appreciate it. Well, so we met in a networking group that both of us belong to,

00:02:07.840 and I've been impressed ever since I've followed you, which has literally only been about a month,

00:02:12.080 but I've been really impressed with what you're doing, and in particular, your podcast, The Learning

00:02:17.140 Leader Show. So I'd like to know a little bit and tell the audience a little bit about what that show

00:02:21.380 is all about and why you started The Learning Leader Show. Well, thank you. Yeah, it is an absolute

00:02:26.480 passion project for me. I am fanatical about a few things, and two of those things are the art and the

00:02:35.280 science of leadership as well as learning and constantly improving. And so I actually did this

00:02:41.340 exercise, and I hate that I forget who told me about this exercise, but what it is is I took a sheet of

00:02:46.220 paper, and I put a line down the middle of that piece of paper, and the left side, I wrote down

00:02:51.560 everything that I love and everything that I'm passionate about. And on the right side, I asked

00:02:56.340 people who were very close to me, you know, close to my family, my wife, people who I'm very close

00:03:01.380 with, I said, can you write down what you think I am an expert in or you would view me as an expert?

00:03:08.380 And then what I did is I took that piece of paper and the things that showed up on both sides of that

00:03:13.760 list. I said, I've got to do something that follows both what people view me as being an expert and what

00:03:19.780 I'm passionate about. And the things that popped up were leadership, constant improvement, passion,

00:03:27.860 drive, those types of things. And so The Learning Leader Show is all about speaking with the smartest,

00:03:33.900 most creative, driven people in the world, you know, mainly in the leadership space, some type of

00:03:41.160 leadership they have, they can provide, and then sharing that with others and hoping that it could

00:03:47.080 help people because nothing gives more joy than receiving an email or a tweet or a text message

00:03:53.780 from a friend that says, hey, man, that episode I just listened to really, really helped me. I now

00:04:01.940 am incorporating a new morning routine because I listened to your episode with Hal Elrod and you

00:04:06.040 both were great. You know, things like that, that gives me more joy than just about anything. So

00:04:11.640 that's my really long answer to the question of why am I doing the show? I absolutely love it. I'm so

00:04:18.580 passionate about it and it's so much fun and I've already learned a ton and it hasn't even been going

00:04:24.620 on that long. So that's awesome. I appreciate you sharing that. Tell me a little bit about why

00:04:30.060 leadership? Like why is it that that is something that's a big passion for you? Does that start way back?

00:04:35.200 Is that something relatively new? Definitely starts way back. You know, it starts, you know,

00:04:39.900 my leadership development started on the athletic fields, playing football, playing baseball, playing

00:04:46.400 basketball growing up, starting at a very, very young age. And I played the position of quarterback

00:04:50.940 when I played football and that's what kind of drove me and where I got a lot of that experience.

00:04:56.800 I played all the way up through high school. I was fortunate enough to earn a college scholarship

00:05:00.360 and play for a few years after college in the arena football league. And I've always been in a

00:05:05.820 position of leadership and trying to, you know, lead others, create more leaders, do things that are

00:05:14.800 going to help a team get better, be the guy that people are going to look to, to lead the group.

00:05:22.240 And I love those positions and I love learning about others who have been great at leading people.

00:05:28.600 And so that's, that's really why my show is about a learning and leadership.

00:05:34.560 So I want to jump back to that, but before I do, I want to ask you kind of an off topic question.

00:05:39.080 When you did that exercise where you listed out your traits and what you were passionate about and

00:05:43.220 what other people thought of you, was there anything on there that was surprising to you that

00:05:46.460 you learned? Was that enlightening at all for you or was it pretty much something you already knew?

00:05:50.260 Oh, that's a great question. I was, you know, I wouldn't say I was super surprised. I probably

00:05:58.500 would have been if I would have asked a larger group of people. I've done exercises like that

00:06:04.560 in my day job where I have maybe an HR representative will go to people who work for me or worked for me

00:06:10.720 and they ask them questions, you know, what is he good at? What is he not good at? You know,

00:06:14.260 how could he improve? And sometimes I'm surprised at that. Usually I've been fortunate to be in

00:06:20.220 the positive, but there are obviously other areas where I need to fix, but that particular

00:06:24.620 exercise, it was, um, it was pretty evident and I wasn't that surprised. Like I said,

00:06:30.220 it was close family members who were, who were doing it because I thought those are the people

00:06:33.580 who knew me the best. Right, right. That makes sense. So going back to now your, your role as,

00:06:39.940 as a quarterback, which anytime you're in a leadership position, it's always the most glamorous,

00:06:45.800 but in my mind, it's always could be the most stressful as well, because if things go well,

00:06:50.960 you get to ride that. Right. But if things go horrible, that's your fault. It's not the team's

00:06:54.360 fault. So what are some lessons that you learned about how to be an effective leader on the field

00:07:00.800 and how has that carried over into your life now that you're, you're, you're with this podcast and

00:07:05.160 the other things that you're doing? Well, I mean, you have to, you have to love that responsibility.

00:07:09.200 I think you, you, you grow into that. And if some people don't, that's why they don't want to play the

00:07:13.620 position of quarterback or they want, they don't want to be a leader in whatever their field of

00:07:17.140 work is. And if, and I think you learn through that, you know, I've felt the great feelings of

00:07:22.620 people saying how great you were as a quarterback. And I've also felt people saying you were terrible,

00:07:27.620 you know, when you have a bad game, everybody has bad games. And, and so it develops a, a very,

00:07:32.840 very thick skin and an ability to get criticized and be able to use that as fuel or even motivation.

00:07:40.280 Or if you're getting criticized by a coach, maybe he's, he's trying to help you, um, in some way,

00:07:46.260 shape or form that I'm able to now help in the business world. Uh, I have thicker skin. I mean,

00:07:51.880 nothing, I'm, I'm, you know, I, I've stood, stood back in a pocket, um, with 275 pound guys trying to

00:07:58.360 kill me. Right. So when I, when I'm at work, I'm somewhere, I'm speaking on my podcast, nothing's

00:08:04.380 ever going to be as bad as that. I mean, I'm never going to have someone trying to kill me. You know,

00:08:09.100 I'm not in my line of work, you know, where they're trying to come and take my head off and

00:08:12.720 sack me as a, as a D lineman, try to get a quarterback. So that in a way, and I speak

00:08:17.320 with other people who've played football or maybe they're from a military background or like, yeah,

00:08:22.220 sometimes somebody might say, you know, I, I messed up at work or things didn't go well,

00:08:26.580 but it's never going to be as tough or as bad as it was when I was, you know, in some people's cases,

00:08:31.320 uh, fighting a war or in my case, playing in the game of football. So it's, I think that's what

00:08:36.420 really helps that you face adversity and all, you know, lines of work, all fields that you're

00:08:42.440 going to get into, there's going to be adverse situations. I've been through a lot of that

00:08:46.420 through athletics and that's really, really helped when it translates into whatever it is you're

00:08:51.540 going to do for your profession. So I've always been really curious because we watch, you know,

00:08:56.640 we watch football on TV or at a game, whatever it may be. And we see these quarterbacks, you know,

00:09:00.620 they get up 95, 99% of the time, but what goes through your head when, like you said, a 300 pound

00:09:06.740 dude just is trying to clobber you and you know, you have to get back up and complete, you know,

00:09:12.220 the series or complete the game. What's I, I'm really curious what's going through your head at

00:09:15.880 that point. Well, you know, that you're, you're being, your teammates depend on you and there's

00:09:20.420 something really powerful about you, you know, you want your teammates to depend on you, but the

00:09:26.180 only way they're going to is if you do continually get up, they see you getting crushed,

00:09:30.060 right? They see, see you take a big shot. They see you stand in the pocket, step and throw and

00:09:35.140 release. And you know what, as some would say, the bullets are flying and the guys are right in

00:09:38.740 your face and you get a big hit and you go, you go down, right? If you're not able to get up,

00:09:43.320 you're not able to take those hits, you're not going to be able to play quarterback. And so I like,

00:09:49.260 I like people depending on me. I want to be the person that people depend on the most and both in my

00:09:54.360 life or my family, as well as when I played football. And so that absolutely carries over. I want that

00:09:59.420 for all of the work that I do. I want people to say like, you know, if, if, if the game's going to

00:10:03.880 be won or lost, I prefer to be playing the biggest role in whatever that game is, whether it's football

00:10:09.820 or business or anything that that's not, that's not, doesn't come from an arrogance that just

00:10:14.620 comes from my preparation, my work ethic, things that I think I'm going to do to be ready for whatever

00:10:19.840 it may be. So I, I like that, that person who you can say, you know what, I know he's going to get

00:10:25.360 up. He's tough. He can, he can play the position well. Um, and I don't have ever have to worry about

00:10:31.640 him, uh, not continuing or not being there. He he's consistent and he's dependable.

00:10:36.260 Well, one of the reasons that I really like competitive sports and now that I've got boys,

00:10:40.720 they're, they're playing baseball and football and basketball. And one of the reasons I like it so

00:10:45.520 much is because I look at sports as a metaphor for life. And one of the things that I'm always impressed

00:10:51.080 with, especially a quarterback who's able to maintain his cool and be level-headed is how

00:10:56.360 do you maintain that coolness, that under pressure? Like for example, if you know, your blindside

00:11:01.840 left tackle blew his coverage or some, or his block or his assignment, how do you not jump

00:11:06.980 on that guy and maintain your cool and take responsibility and be able to continue to play

00:11:11.360 the game, even though it may have been someone else's mistake that caused that to happen?

00:11:17.140 Well, I try to think of if I was in his position, how would I best respond?

00:11:21.100 What, what type of leadership is needed for me to best respond? So remember all there's 10 other

00:11:26.420 guys playing with you when you're the quarterback and all 10 of them have different personalities.

00:11:30.240 So there, there might be some guys that you do need, you do need to get on, but there also are

00:11:34.300 other guys that you can't do that because you know, they won't respond well. So that's why it's

00:11:38.940 also playing the position of quarterback helps translate to a leadership role in a business because

00:11:43.820 you can't treat all of your employees the same, right? They're, they're each, they all have

00:11:48.240 different personalities. They respond differently to different coaching. So it, I learned a ton

00:11:53.780 playing, especially in college, because in college you have people from all different

00:11:58.460 socioeconomic backgrounds, people from all over the country. We had people from out of the country.

00:12:03.380 So I had teammates that were drastically different and diverse, which me as the, as the leader of

00:12:10.780 that team, I needed to learn how do I handle each guy's personality and coach them in a way that

00:12:16.440 they'll respond in a positive way for us to win the game. So if the left tackle is a guy who actually

00:12:22.700 needs somebody to get on them, it's my duty to do that. If he's a guy who will not respond well to

00:12:29.000 that, then I have to know that I have to understand that. And I think that's the difference between

00:12:33.200 either great coaches or great leaders is that some of them have one style and they can't adapt to

00:12:38.520 other people. The great ones, they understand how to adapt to each and every person. And I tried as

00:12:45.900 best I could to be one of those. So is that a trial and error thing or are there some strategies or

00:12:51.940 some techniques that you use to quickly identify how your teammates respond to different levels of

00:12:58.460 coaching or leadership? Definitely some trial and error. However, it's also, it's, it's, it's the time

00:13:03.620 investment of getting to know each person on a personal level, right? Especially my guys on

00:13:08.360 offense with me. Like I needed to know them inside and out, go to dinner with them, study with them,

00:13:14.900 watch film with them, hang out with them, you know, go to parties with them, do everything as best I can

00:13:20.520 with them as the leader to understand, you know, get to know their personality and what they're like.

00:13:25.040 And you'll learn quickly, um, the, the personalities of each person. And then yes, there is obviously an

00:13:32.080 element of trial and error. And hopefully that's done on the practice field to where, you know,

00:13:36.880 okay, I know how I have to treat my left tackle is different from my right tackle. My running back

00:13:41.720 might be more sensitive than my wide receiver or whatever. And so I think that's learned over time.

00:13:47.460 Uh, but, but like, again, the better ones are able to pick up on that as quickly as possible,

00:13:52.380 but you do have to invest the time with those people in order to know that.

00:13:56.120 Right. That makes sense. I want to go back to a question that, or, uh, uh, something that you

00:14:00.440 said a minute ago and you talked about if anybody, you know, can handle the pressure or if I'm going

00:14:05.940 to play the game, I want to play at the biggest level and I want the pressure. I want to be that

00:14:10.940 guy. And I think that's intimidating for a lot of men. I think that they want to be the leader,

00:14:16.120 whether it's in their house or in their business or in their community, but it's scary,

00:14:20.840 right? I mean, it's a little intimidating when people are looking to you to succeed or to help

00:14:25.780 them succeed. What is it about you or your personality or background that causes you to

00:14:30.940 say, I want to be that guy. Like when everything's on the line, I want to be the guy who has the ball

00:14:36.580 or be on the line for the success of the failure of whatever it is we're working on.

00:14:40.980 I don't know. Do you, do you think, do you think there's a lot of, I mean, I guess I feel like a lot

00:14:45.120 of people are like that. I don't know. Like if it, I just think if it's up, if it's,

00:14:49.200 if it's going to happen, right, wouldn't you rather as a person, whether it's, I know this

00:14:53.360 is the order of man, but, but, or as a man, wouldn't you rather be on your shoulders than

00:14:58.200 somebody else's, than, than your fate in somebody else's hands? I, I, I feel like most people are

00:15:03.220 like that, or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's just in my own head. What do you think?

00:15:06.880 Well, I think that's probably why you're so successful with, with what you've done in

00:15:11.180 the past is because you think that way. And to think any different is pretty foreign to

00:15:15.220 you, but I do believe there's a lot of people out there who don't want the responsibility.

00:15:19.780 Like they would rather give that up and hope that somebody else will take care of it and

00:15:25.000 it'll all work out based on what somebody else is doing. I really do.

00:15:28.420 That mindset. And I see what you're saying. That mindset seems, it seems bizarre to me and

00:15:33.780 foreign. Um, just because I don't know, I'm, I am a little bit puzzled because I can't imagine 0.56

00:15:40.900 if, if somebody says there's something really, really important, right? And this, this task

00:15:44.900 needs to be completed, whatever the task may be. Would you rather do it? Or would you rather

00:15:50.080 have, you know, John Smith right down the road, do it, who you think is a good guy, good leader,

00:15:55.680 like I, regardless of who that other guy is, you know, I'm probably going to want to have

00:16:00.980 heavy involvement in getting that task done. Now, I think part of the job too, though, as a great

00:16:06.320 leader is leveraging resources, understanding who can help you going to those people. What? So like

00:16:13.740 if you're going to use, if you're going to use football, you know, if, if you have a great slot

00:16:18.480 receiver who gets open all the time, you got to get him the ball, right? You know, you have a great

00:16:23.500 running back sometimes as a quarterback, even if you want to pass and you want to, you want to, you

00:16:27.340 want to, you know, throw a lot, but you have a great running back. Well, sometimes you got to hand in

00:16:31.200 the ball. So I think that's part of being part of being a leader too, is understanding if you have

00:16:35.820 resources. So like in the, in the business world, I fully understand that there are things that I'm

00:16:40.060 good at, but there are other things that other, that there are other people who are far smarter

00:16:43.740 than me, far better than me. I need to leverage those people and we're going to help each other

00:16:48.220 together, get whatever that task is done. You know, so as far as my podcast is concerned,

00:16:54.080 we were talking earlier, you know, I'm not good at building a website. I wasn't good at creating a

00:16:58.660 logo. I leveraged resources, right? I asked other people. In some cases I paid people to do those

00:17:04.260 things for me because, you know, I knew there's professionals who could do that far better than

00:17:09.640 me. So I think it's, um, again, a longer answer to your question, but I think part of leadership is

00:17:16.700 also leveraging resources. I really appreciate your level of confidence because I think that's

00:17:22.780 what, you know, being a successful man is all about. But what I want to talk about is with those

00:17:28.580 men, and I feel like I'm confident in what I do as well. And one of the things that I personally

00:17:32.640 struggle with, and I know there's a lot of guys out there that feel the same, is that when we feel

00:17:36.920 like, Hey, we can do this better than anybody else out there, how do you delegate? How do you release

00:17:44.220 some of that control? Even if you know that, Hey, this might not get done to the same level,

00:17:48.880 but it's going to be way more efficient if somebody else does it. How do you find that balance of doing

00:17:53.360 it yourself versus delegating it to somebody else? What type of task would you, are you, are you

00:17:57.920 talking about when you say delegating? Well, so for example, um, there's a lot of administrative

00:18:03.000 stuff and you know, this as well as I do, but there's a lot of administrative stuff that goes

00:18:06.820 into the blog and the podcast and making the website run. And, and although I might be great

00:18:13.380 having conversations with you and my other guests, I may not be as good as putting together the, uh,

00:18:19.460 you know, like you said, the website or the show notes or some of the administrative duties.

00:18:24.660 Yeah. Although I feel like I wouldn't be able to get them done at the same level if I

00:18:29.620 delegate those out to somebody else. I see what you're saying. I, um, I try to have an understanding

00:18:35.480 of, I think, um, you have to know what you're, what you can do and what you can't do and you have

00:18:40.040 to know what you know and what you don't. Right. And so, uh, when it comes to, like you said,

00:18:44.720 when it comes to the preparation before a podcast, when it comes to, uh, executing the episode,

00:18:51.700 uh, taking the show notes afterwards, like I, I feel like I, I, from a preparation standpoint,

00:18:58.320 nobody's going to do that better than me. And so I, I do that myself. I write down any type of notes.

00:19:03.980 Um, before every guest, I probably have roughly, you know, five to seven pages of notes, anything I

00:19:08.520 can find online. I read their books. I watch, um, videos of them. If they have a Ted talk or whatever,

00:19:15.460 I listened to podcasts they've done before if they've been on them. So I think preparation standpoint,

00:19:20.900 I know I don't delegate that at all. Literally none. Um, now I have, I have help on other things

00:19:27.400 that I know I'm not, that I'm probably not as good at like, uh, editing, right? I'm not great.

00:19:32.700 I'm not a great editor. I think I can execute the episode, but then I need a little help editing.

00:19:36.960 So I, you know, I have help doing that. Uh, I, like I said before, I have help building a website.

00:19:42.100 I have help creating logos. I have help creating designs because my brain works a little bit

00:19:47.260 differently than those things. So I need help in some areas. And so when I do,

00:19:50.900 I'm okay delegating now, I, before my, my podcast even launched, you know, I had people that I

00:19:57.040 delegated to, um, that weren't very good and I had to, I'm not going to say fire them, but I, 0.54

00:20:02.840 I changed the people that I delegated to work to. And that's a learning process because I realized I

00:20:08.360 can't count on that person. They're not, uh, they're not getting it done on time or not getting

00:20:13.200 it done the way I think it should be done. And then you move on and you find somebody else.

00:20:17.980 So I'm glad you said that, that you move on and find somebody else, because I think a lot of times

00:20:21.540 what I've seen in the past is where, you know, someone might delegate something out. It doesn't

00:20:25.180 get done to the level that they would like to have it done. And all of a sudden they say, Oh,

00:20:28.460 forget it. I'll just do it myself. Right. Yeah. Rather than saying, Hey, no, this is still okay.

00:20:33.240 This just didn't happen to be the right person, but I know that there's a right person out there to,

00:20:36.920 to handle this job or this task. Yeah. You know, podcast takes so much time and, and we, we, you know,

00:20:42.700 we both a lot going on. So I knew that there were some tasks that I was just going to have to

00:20:47.320 delegate because there's, there's only so much time. And I also have to spend time trying to

00:20:52.460 acquire and get great guests. And that's a whole nother, you know, art and science in its own of,

00:20:57.540 of, of reaching out and finding great people to be on the podcast. So that's a, that takes time too.

00:21:02.440 One of the premises of your show is that you're learning from other successful people in all aspects

00:21:08.260 of life. So you're talking with a lot of leaders. Is there, and I think you said you had 25 or 30

00:21:13.940 shows recorded. Obviously there's not that many released yet because you released a couple of

00:21:17.740 weeks ago, but is there a reoccurring trend in the, in the interviews you've done and the

00:21:22.560 conversations that you've had with successful people? Is there some things, some underlying

00:21:26.580 tones that you keep seeing, you see keep popping up? They've all failed. Every single one of them,

00:21:33.720 every one of them have gone through massive adversity at one point in their life. You know,

00:21:37.820 whether a Pat Flynn, you know, got laid off from a job that he absolutely loved and he never would

00:21:42.980 have quit. Right. I mean, Chris Brogan is another guy who's had a big time failure in his life prior

00:21:50.500 to now making it big. Um, Maurice Claret, a guy I had on who was, you know, the Heisman trophy, uh,

00:21:57.500 candidate running back for Ohio state, you know, went to prison for four years, you know? And so I think

00:22:03.220 the common theme with, with the guests that I have on is that they've been able to handle adversity

00:22:09.380 incredibly well. They've bounced back and made themselves better. And that seems to be, uh, I

00:22:17.080 mean, look, even like, look at the Superbowl, you know, Tom Brady throws, throws these interceptions

00:22:20.760 and then comes back and has one of the greatest fourth quarters of any quarterback in Superbowl history.

00:22:25.560 Right. I mean, great leaders persevere. They understand that things are not always going to go

00:22:30.840 right. They don't get down. They just, they just look at it as a learning experience and opportunity

00:22:36.260 to get better. And they come back even better. And I think that's the common theme amongst every

00:22:40.600 person I've spoken with is that they, I mean, how Elrod, an episode I just released, I mean,

00:22:45.740 the guy got in a car accident and was pronounced dead for six minutes. I mean, I don't know if anyone's

00:22:51.160 faced more adversity than that. I mean, they literally didn't have a pulse. And so I think, uh,

00:22:56.500 seeing people come back from that even better, um, is inspiring to me. And from the feedback I

00:23:01.940 received is inspiring to the, to the listeners of the learning leader show. So what do you see as

00:23:07.240 being the reason for that? Because I think for every success that we see, we can also think of

00:23:12.620 people who have had adversity and they've let it destroy them. So obviously overcoming adversity

00:23:18.700 and taking it as a learning experience, is that something they've learned to do? Is that something

00:23:22.740 within themselves? Where is that coming from? It's probably a combination of both. You know, I,

00:23:27.640 um, I think, I think it's, it's a mindset of how you view tough things or how you view bad things.

00:23:34.980 If, and, and some people they are, I think there are, there's an element of people who have that

00:23:39.840 innately just in them, you know? Um, and then there's, there's others who are constantly,

00:23:46.680 you know, getting better and learning about how to deal with tough things. And so we're, we're all,

00:23:52.160 and we're all obviously learning and getting better. Some people choose to view those tough

00:23:57.760 things in their life as an experience they can learn from. And other people view it and say,

00:24:03.600 well, it's just, you know, with, you know, the one, one of my pet peeves is when somebody says to me,

00:24:08.520 oh, with my luck, you know, it will rain that day. And with my luck, I will. So a common thing that

00:24:15.840 my wife and I do actually have never said this on a podcast, a common thing that we say every day,

00:24:20.200 almost is say with our luck, we will. And then whatever, whatever we say will be an incredibly

00:24:27.360 positive thing, you know? So we, we, we, we are consciously saying with our luck, meaning we are,

00:24:35.640 we're lucky people because we prepare, we work really, really hard and good things are going to

00:24:41.420 happen. And so I think that's, that's the type of mindset that might be different from somebody who

00:24:46.520 says, oh, with my luck, it's going to, you know, it's going to argue our baseball game is going to

00:24:49.820 get rained out, you know, or something like that. And, and I hate that. I really, I just despise it.

00:24:53.620 And when somebody says that to me, a lot of times find myself like almost correcting them. And I have

00:24:58.960 to be careful because, you know, people, people don't want to be corrected all the time, but it does

00:25:02.940 bother me a little bit when people say that. So without trying to get too personal, are there other

00:25:08.340 affirmations that either you're saying and telling yourself to help you feel and be more successful or

00:25:13.680 affirmations that you're hearing some of the leaders that you're interviewing and having

00:25:16.500 conversations with that are, that they're saying and using? I mean, I write in the five minute journal

00:25:20.540 every morning and every night. Have you heard of that? No. So five minute journal is a thing I'd

00:25:26.060 encourage people to look it up. And part of it is writing is, is literally verbalizing and writing

00:25:32.560 down positive affirmations about yourself. And you're also going to write down things that you're

00:25:37.140 grateful for is you can't be hateful if you're grateful, man. And so you, you look at the good things in

00:25:42.920 your life, the things that you're grateful for. Um, do you say, you know, what would make today

00:25:47.160 great? And you answer that question, you put, what are some positive affirmations, things that I,

00:25:51.860 you know, I say about myself every day, cause they become a reality. There's psychological facts.

00:25:57.080 Scientists have said this that prove if you do these things, it literally, the chances of it happening

00:26:02.400 increase. And at the end of the day, you say, you know, what made today great and what could have,

00:26:06.840 you know, what could have happened to make the day better. And it's a very simple practice.

00:26:10.840 I would encourage people to do it, but you, you just, you know, you write in your five minute

00:26:14.460 journal every morning and every night. It's the first thing I do every morning. I drink a big,

00:26:17.860 big glass of water. I write my journal and I work out and I read. And before I go to bed,

00:26:23.720 I'm writing my journal. Um, and my wife and I both do it. And it's something that's made a very

00:26:28.620 positive difference in our lives. That's awesome. Yeah. Isn't there something so incredible about

00:26:35.260 writing your thoughts down? I've, I've, I'm actually doing an experiment right now and I'm calling it

00:26:40.080 Chronicles of an Ordinary Man. And it's basically a story, a day by day story that I'm writing to my

00:26:47.080 kids, but I'm writing about what lessons I'm learning throughout the day and what things are

00:26:51.480 going well and what things I feel like I need to improve on. And the clarity for me that's come

00:26:56.260 from that is incredible. Dude, that's awesome. I love it. Yeah. That's cool. So I'm really curious

00:27:01.900 what your workout is. Um, I, you know, I do CrossFit personally. Is there a workout that you do?

00:27:06.840 Is there, what does that look like when you say you work out and you get up and do that every

00:27:10.220 morning? Yeah. I mean, you know, I've, I worked from, from my background, there was a lot of,

00:27:14.360 um, some of the, a lot of those types of moves I've done, um, Olympic type lifting. Now I don't

00:27:19.640 do as much of that anymore because my body is still, um, it, you know, it was beat up through the

00:27:24.660 years of, of playing, I mean, playing quarterback, I got hit a lot. I played arena football, which the

00:27:29.320 quarterback gets hit a lot. Um, so I, you know, I probably steer clear of some of those Olympic lifts

00:27:35.840 nowadays, but no, I, I go to the gym. I like to do explosive stuff when I can. Uh, I like to make

00:27:41.680 sure my core, my legs are strong. Um, and then I do the, the, probably the regular, you know, upper

00:27:46.980 body stuff that a lot of people do. Um, and then the explosive type plyometric stuff. And then in

00:27:53.060 addition to that, one of my ways I relax is I like to, and I know people think this is probably

00:27:58.260 not a good workout, but it's the way I end my workouts is I get on the elliptical and I read.

00:28:03.300 So I almost do it more so for the reading than I do for the actual elliptical. It's kind of on there.

00:28:07.940 I think elliptical is kind of easy, but I do it because I can kind of relax. I can read, I take

00:28:13.240 notes. Um, I have a, you know, like an iPad with using the Kindle app and I take notes and then

00:28:18.240 that's how I get ideas for creative questions to ask guests or how I find guests, uh, if I read an

00:28:25.620 interesting book. So the reading aspect at the end of the workout is kind of my way of preparing

00:28:30.140 myself for the day. And this is done usually really early in the morning, um, before, before, uh, other

00:28:36.240 people, you know, other people, my family, uh, wake up and then I'm ready for, you know, breakfast in,

00:28:41.720 in, in, in my day. I think it's really easy for guys to consider the physical aspects of,

00:28:48.240 of, you know, strength and, and becoming more resilient and getting tougher. But I'm a huge

00:28:53.780 fan and advocate of strengthening your mind as well. One of the interesting things or experiences

00:28:58.380 that I had in the past couple of weeks, I ran a Spartan race down in Las Vegas and about six

00:29:03.580 miles into this race, my mind was just like playing tricks on me, telling me how tired I was or, um,

00:29:09.720 you know, how, how, how much pain I was in. But at the end of the day, like thinking about it now

00:29:14.340 is that really wasn't the case. It was my mind trying to get me to stop. So what are some of

00:29:18.700 the things that either you do personally or what you have, have seen your guests do to increase

00:29:25.620 their level of mental toughness? Well, first of all, you got to tell your fans to go to order

00:29:31.820 of man.com and read, uh, five reasons every man should compete in a Spartan race. I was reading it

00:29:37.980 as I was preparing to come on your show. Uh, so no, I just wanted to get to it because it's,

00:29:42.300 it's really a well-written and I, I was like, wow, I need to run one of those. I've done one

00:29:46.520 of the ones where you, uh, crawled in the mud. I think it was called a warrior dash actually,

00:29:50.540 but it's probably a little bit, a little bit different. Um, but I'm sorry, what was the

00:29:53.480 question again, man? That was real. No, I appreciate the plug for sure. No, I was talking

00:29:59.060 about what, what do you do or what do you see people do that are successful that they do to

00:30:03.820 increase their mental toughness? Do you ever talk to people and they say they don't have time

00:30:08.580 to read? Oh yeah. All the time. I mean, I know I've mentioned one other pet peeve that

00:30:13.140 is even bigger to me. Probably. I don't have time to read. I have too much stuff going on.

00:30:18.100 Yes, you do. Everyone listening has time to read. If you don't, you are choosing to prioritize

00:30:24.260 something else. So the best thing you could do is, is take time to read. It doesn't even

00:30:32.300 have to be that long, probably as long as you or I read, but I don't think it's out of

00:30:36.720 question to wake up a little early and to spend 20 minutes reading a great book, right? There's so

00:30:41.880 much good information out there and it's so cheap really. And you just buy these books or you could

00:30:46.420 even look online. Right. And so, I mean, I, I've, you've seen so many quotes about people that say

00:30:52.460 that the greatest leaders look at what they do, right? All of them are constantly learning and

00:30:58.060 they're constantly reading. And so the way to build up mental strength is to simply read great

00:31:06.660 text. And, um, you know, I, I could name 50, 50 great books that, that, that could help if you,

00:31:13.820 if you haven't read them so far. And so there's some life changing things out there that come

00:31:17.400 simply from reading a book. So that's, that's the number one way I would say.

00:31:20.560 So without putting you too much on the spot, is there one or two or three books that you're

00:31:25.840 currently reading or have read recently that we should have on our list?

00:31:29.320 Well, I mean, Adam Grant's book called Give and Take is a life changing book for me,

00:31:32.960 why helping others drives our success. So that's, that's the number one book I would tell people

00:31:36.940 to read. I also, uh, and that's all about how, um, Adam Grant has science behind why, uh, givers,

00:31:45.300 people who are, are, who are looking to help others, why they are the most successful people

00:31:50.760 in the world. Um, another book I love is called Smart Cuts by Shane Snow. Shane's, uh, was came on

00:31:56.520 my show, uh, Adam's coming on, uh, in a month, but Shane, uh, I already recorded, we'll be releasing

00:32:01.720 an episode soon, but that his book's called Smart Cuts, how hackers, innovators, and icons, uh,

00:32:07.780 accelerate success, not shortcuts, but smart cuts. It talks a lot about, um, the story,

00:32:15.300 stories and the science again, behind some of the most successful people and how they

00:32:19.440 were able to accelerate success. I love that book. And then one of the classics of all time

00:32:23.220 for me is Good to Great by Jim Collins. I would highly recommend that book for people,

00:32:28.860 especially if you work in a company and maybe you guys are struggling or you need to, you

00:32:32.720 need to do something to make your company better. Um, I'll name one other one. Uh, Walter

00:32:37.140 Isaacson's book, Steve Jobs is a classic and one of my favorites of all time. So, I mean,

00:32:42.100 I could keep going, but, uh, I don't want to go an hour just talking about books.

00:32:46.120 Just talking about that. Well, so I'll make sure that I make, um, all those available on

00:32:51.780 the show notes page so that we can have access to those. And we want to, that way you don't

00:32:55.480 have to remember what they are. You can just go to the show notes page and check them out.

00:32:58.260 Cool.

00:32:59.080 So we've learned a lot about leadership and what, what people are doing who are successful.

00:33:03.580 Sometimes it's, it's good or at least entertaining to see what bad leaders are doing.

00:33:07.780 Yeah. Are, are there some things that you've seen out there that, uh, guys that really strive

00:33:12.980 to be leaders who are just not doing a good job and what is it that they're doing that

00:33:16.500 they're maybe struggling with? Um, I, I, I can read how maybe a person in a leadership position

00:33:24.940 or in a upper management position, when you read the way they, they communicate with their

00:33:29.680 team or the people that work for them, you can learn a lot. So here's one example. When,

00:33:35.020 when you see them say, I need you to do whatever that person for the most part is probably not

00:33:44.920 a good leader. When you see someone who writes, we are going to do this or we, you know, need

00:33:53.740 to do this or we are, you know, whatever it is, people who use the pronouns with, of, I need

00:33:58.460 you, you know, uh, I found in my experience just to be aren't as good as leaders, leaders. And I've,

00:34:05.940 I've, I've been around both. Um, I played for great coaches and I played for, for, for coaches

00:34:11.000 who weren't that great. And I think that's one of the biggest differences is, is people get in a

00:34:15.600 kind of an upper level position and they feel like they have some power and then they get a little

00:34:20.280 nervous cause maybe they're insecure and they start saying I and you, and it really bothers me.

00:34:25.420 And I, I made sure, you know, in those positions I've been in at work or wherever, uh, whether I

00:34:30.540 was playing football or in the business world, it was, it was we, you know, I'm, it's not, I don't

00:34:34.960 like saying somebody works for me. I would rather say, you know, we work together. Um, and so when

00:34:41.060 someone says, yeah, he works for me or she works for me, I, that's, that's something that bothers

00:34:45.500 me a little bit. I don't, I don't view them as much as a good leader. I, I like, I've seen some

00:34:49.220 great ones that say, well, some of them say even I work for, for them when, you know, on the,

00:34:53.740 on the, on the, the corporate ladder, so to speak, that the, the boss is, is the boss

00:34:58.440 and he's saying, or she's saying, I actually work for the people that work for me. And so

00:35:02.660 I like that. I like that style of leadership. And I also like the style of leadership that

00:35:06.900 say, yeah, we work together, even in passing, you know, when, when someone's like, Hey, do

00:35:10.720 you know so-and-so? And you're like, Oh yeah, yeah. And, and, and, and a boss will say, yeah,

00:35:15.240 they work for me. And a leader will say, yeah, we work together. You know, just little things

00:35:19.300 like that. I, I found to be a big difference between people who are like bosses and people

00:35:23.380 who are leaders.

00:35:24.840 Or, you know, what's even more interesting too, I guess just as interesting is when you

00:35:28.480 see somebody who says, I, when things are going well and you or they, when things are

00:35:36.340 going poorly, right?

00:35:37.500 I've definitely seen that too. And, and vice versa, you know, people who, when things are

00:35:42.220 going poorly are saying, you know what, I need to do better. I need to lead better. I need

00:35:46.240 to get my team going better. And, and, and people who, when then, when it goes well to

00:35:49.340 say, yeah, my team's great. They, they absolutely stepped up and made it happen. And I'm very

00:35:53.900 fortunate to get to work with, with, with great people.

00:35:57.120 Awesome. Well, one of the things that I see a lot with podcasts is as good as they are

00:36:02.020 and as great as however many shows are out there. And I listened to a ton of podcasts,

00:36:05.720 just like it sounds like you do. Sometimes I think we get lulled into this belief that the

00:36:11.260 guests that come on are perfect and that everything's working perfectly. And sometimes like

00:36:15.660 it's nice to know that we're all human. And again, without trying to put you on the spot,

00:36:20.240 is there some things that you feel like, and you alluded to this, I think a little bit earlier

00:36:24.220 that either you're struggling with, or you feel like, Hey, here's something that I feel

00:36:28.280 like I could really improve on and how, and what and how you're doing to, to get there.

00:36:33.440 Yeah. I mean, there's a ton of things. I, I mean, I'm trying to think of, um, you know,

00:36:39.920 I can relate a lot of things to, to when I played and how that, how that relates. But as far as

00:36:44.620 things I need to get better, I mean, I try to analyze those deficiencies in my leadership game,

00:36:49.440 so to speak all the time and, and ask others, you know, what could I be doing better? Um,

00:36:55.540 and sometimes it's something as little as, you know, listen to what the person is saying,

00:36:59.940 instead of just thinking of your next question, right. Uh, putting yourself in, uh, that, that

00:37:07.100 person's shoes and understanding it from their perspective. You know, I talked to Maurice Claret,

00:37:11.680 it was interesting. And Maurice comes from, you know, a, a single parent household in Northeastern

00:37:18.480 Ohio. And I come from, uh, you know, both, you know, my mom and dad are kind of the, the, the

00:37:24.640 guideposts for me of what a marriage should look like. And they, you know, I've been together for

00:37:28.740 quite some time and we live, I'm from Southwest Ohio. And so I have to realize that, you know, um,

00:37:34.520 sometimes people can be quick to judge or, and I've, I've, I've been guilty of this couldn't quit.

00:37:40.460 You can be quick to judge somebody when you don't fully understand where they're coming from or what

00:37:46.560 their background is. Like I had all of this coaching and teaching from both of my parents

00:37:52.600 who were phenomenal, who are phenomenal. Uh, my dad, a very, very successful executive who has taught me

00:37:59.620 so much. And he continues to do it on a, on a daily basis. My mom, the exact same way, helping me

00:38:04.840 constantly. And, uh, there are not everybody has that though. So you, so it's, you can't be quick

00:38:11.320 to judge other people because we all come from different backgrounds. And I've definitely made

00:38:16.620 that mistake before in my life where you're a little bit quick, be like, why didn't they know

00:38:20.940 that? Or why are they stupid with money? Well, maybe nobody taught them about money. Like I was taught, 1.00

00:38:26.440 you know, things like that, just little judgments that I feel like, um, I hate that I, I, that I have

00:38:32.180 to admit that I've done that, but I have, you know, um, I, I, I have, and I, I've worked pretty hard

00:38:37.460 to try not to do that and to get better on things when it comes to understanding where we're all coming

00:38:43.400 from. That's a great, that's a great answer. And so I want to talk a little bit more about, you know,

00:38:49.360 with you where you said you had great parents, part of, part of my background is that I didn't have a

00:38:54.920 permanent father figure in the house when I was growing up. I was listening to that. That's,

00:38:57.780 that's your story's incredible, man. I appreciate it. Yeah. But one of the things I always wonder

00:39:03.100 is, you know, what would life look like if it were different? What would life be like if there was

00:39:07.860 somebody like that in my life as I was growing up? And now I'm in the position to be able to do

00:39:13.340 something about it. I'm really curious what you do. Cause we all have heard the phrase,

00:39:17.220 you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with, right? Show me your friends and

00:39:20.860 I'll show you your future. Yeah, exactly. So what are some of the things that you're

00:39:24.760 doing to surround yourselves or yourself with the right kind of people that are going to get you

00:39:30.560 and help you to where you want to go and vice versa, you're going to help them.

00:39:33.740 You know, one of the things, I mean, the main things is, is that's part of why I started the

00:39:36.860 podcast. You know, I, I wanted to be intentional with my actions of reaching out and sometimes in

00:39:43.400 a comfortable way to meet some of the smartest, most creative leaders in the world. Right. And,

00:39:48.820 and they become each one of them become part of, um, they become friends and that's,

00:39:54.260 that's really what I'm searching for. And the cool thing that's happened is friends of mine,

00:39:59.340 not all of them, but, but some of them have really, really responded in a big way to me.

00:40:05.460 And that means more to me than anything. And those people probably will listen even to this episode.

00:40:09.500 It's, it's one that, you know, is not my show, but it's yours. But the way they've responded and said,

00:40:14.520 Hey man, like that's really, really cool. Like I really enjoy that. And there's been others who have

00:40:19.200 completely blown off the show and I don't expect everybody to listen to it. That's not like,

00:40:22.600 you know, what I'm, what I'm out for, but to, to hear the people who really, really enjoy it.

00:40:27.080 And then you hear them trying to make meaningful changes or positive things in their life.

00:40:31.540 I want those people in that closest group of friends. Right. And so the combination of people

00:40:36.480 who are current friends who are now, they feel like they're improving because of your podcast

00:40:40.280 or because of the things that you're doing, the action you're taking. Plus all the people I've met

00:40:45.240 through creating the podcast, whether it's the guest and friends of theirs and things like that.

00:40:51.200 So that's, it's been, um, I didn't know what to expect when doing this. And that's been a huge,

00:40:56.520 huge bonus for me. It has. And I've had the same experience to be able to reach out to guys like

00:41:02.360 you and other, other guys that I've had on the show who have just been able to have incredible

00:41:06.040 conversations with. It's really cool, man. I love it. I love it.

00:41:09.000 So you said that you've had to reach out to people in uncomfortable ways. And one of the

00:41:14.340 things that I think is so important that as men, we find ways to be okay with uncomfortable,

00:41:21.840 like risk something daily, like try something hard that pushes you outside of your comfort zone.

00:41:27.640 And I'm sure you would agree with that. Are there some things that you would say that would help

00:41:31.640 the guys that are listening to this get outside of their comfort zone and push past that so they can

00:41:36.260 have a life better than what they have now? I would set small goals on things that, uh,

00:41:42.060 you know, you'd be uncomfortable with whatever those, whatever that may be. So what I was alluding

00:41:47.520 to was, you know, I've sent a massive amount of cold emails, uh, emails to people who have no idea who I

00:41:54.180 am. Um, I've tried to, you know, write them thoughtfully. We're using uncommon commonalities,

00:42:00.320 things like that to, to get them to respond. And I've been fortunate that, that some of them have

00:42:04.760 worked and that's uncomfortable though. And there's a, there's a fear of rejection there,

00:42:09.220 or someone's going to say, who are you? Which I've got, I've gotten that, or you're just going to,

00:42:13.360 or you're just going to get ignored or you get the person who says, you know, show me your numbers

00:42:17.360 or something like that. When I'm like, I don't have numbers. My show, my show hasn't even launched

00:42:21.520 yet, man. You know? So like, I think, I think, but I said, I always set small goals literally every

00:42:27.320 single day to say, you know, before I go to bed, I'm going to do the, this, this one or two things.

00:42:32.420 And so as I was building the podcast, it was, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to reach out to,

00:42:37.000 you know, five people that I've never spoken to, whether it's, and usually it's been email or,

00:42:42.920 or social media or whatever. I don't have phone numbers for these people. And, um, regardless of

00:42:48.240 what they say. And if you do that seven days a week, that's 35 cold emails you've sent each week.

00:42:56.180 And so, you know, do the math. You've been doing that for months. You're, you have the opportunity

00:43:01.800 to then, uh, put together a potentially good podcast for, for the example I'm using. And then

00:43:07.600 those people then obviously, I mean, I don't know about you, but for, and I'm sure this is the case

00:43:12.140 for you, but each person that I've talked to, you know, we, we talk about, you know, is there,

00:43:17.220 are there other people that you might think would be a good fit for the show that would enjoy it,

00:43:20.760 you know, just like you did. I've had, I, so I've gotten more guests from referrals than from

00:43:25.800 cold email. So that's the other positive thing from it, but that's uncomfortable, man. Like

00:43:29.640 that's something that's outside of most people's comfort zone. Cause you're, you're, you're offering

00:43:33.800 yourself up for rejection. But when you get the little success, it's like, it's, it's, you're like,

00:43:40.580 Oh, I got, I want more, right. I want to do that. I want to do it again. And that kind of drives you.

00:43:45.040 So you just got to set the small goals. So you feel the small success and then you want,

00:43:48.260 I'm going to go get more. And that's what I would encourage, whatever, whatever it is,

00:43:52.220 that's a little bit uncomfortable, whether it's like, you know, go to a Toastmasters or do some

00:43:55.860 public speaking, just do it one time. And you'll see that person looking at you and they nod,

00:44:00.460 right. They just nod at one thing you say and you're like, Oh wow, I'm actually, maybe I'm good

00:44:04.500 at this. Well, you're going to, you're going to continue to do it. And that's a, that's a skill

00:44:08.640 that we all need to get better at. And you're so right. I mean, that one success that you can have

00:44:13.980 would totally overcome 20, 30, 40, a hundred of those experiences where somebody ignored you or

00:44:20.500 nothing happened or you fell short. It just takes that one success to keep you going.

00:44:25.460 Definitely, man. That's what it's all about. That's why you said the small goals and hit them

00:44:29.540 and then, and then set more and keep doing it.

00:44:32.300 Well, so based on what I've known about you, which is literally not very much over the past

00:44:36.140 month in our limited conversation, I know that I can tell that you've got passion for leadership

00:44:40.900 and all the things that you're doing. So I'm really curious what goals you have and,

00:44:45.500 and some of the thoughts that you have. What's, what's, what does the future hold for you?

00:44:50.460 Goals as far as a podcast is concerned.

00:44:53.700 Or anything, podcast or career, whatever it may be.

00:44:56.880 Yeah. I mean, you know, I said, I wrote down goals, um, prior to, to launching it. You know,

00:45:01.280 I wanted to be featured at number one in the new and noteworthy and we're, we're hovering around

00:45:04.980 that place right now, uh, in iTunes. Um, I wanted to receive 100 emails from people saying that my

00:45:12.260 show has helped them. Um, that's a, that's a stretch goal. And so, uh, I hope I, you know,

00:45:17.740 that, that happens over time because, uh, people will, are more than happy to write a review,

00:45:22.440 but they, it's, it's another thing to sit down and write an email. So it's cool to, to, to, to,

00:45:26.480 to see that happen. I said other goals as far as growth of the show and things like that.

00:45:30.960 Cause that's my, this is my, this is my, my, like I said, my passion project that I really

00:45:35.120 wanted to do. And I want it to be, um, I, I want to continue to, uh, get feedback from people that

00:45:43.000 it's helped them in their life. And so that's the main, those are my main goals is to continue to

00:45:47.780 receive feedback from both friends and strangers that say, you know, I never heard of you and I

00:45:54.560 love your show and I love the way that you seem prepared, but you also are willing to react in the

00:45:59.500 moment. Like that, that type of feedback is, are, are the goals that I've set for myself to receive

00:46:04.520 that and to continually get better. And so if I want somebody to say, Hey, I listened to episode

00:46:08.440 number five and then I listened to episode number 50. Oh my gosh, you are, you know, it's night and

00:46:14.140 day. You're, you're, you're, you're so much better that, you know, that shows that I'm learning and

00:46:18.000 I'm improving. And so I'm, I'm, I'm really working hard to do that. Well, I'm glad you've been on the

00:46:22.960 show because that's what our community, that's what the order man community is all about. So if you're 0.99

00:46:27.560 listening and you feel like this has been useful for you, or you listen to the learning leader show

00:46:32.640 and you feel like that's been useful, we've got to get Ryan to at least a hundred emails. That's

00:46:37.180 the goal, right? Yeah. Yeah. Just, just write me and you can do it even just to my Gmail, Ryan Hawk

00:46:41.880 one, two Ryan Hawk, 12 at gmail.com. I would love to hear any type of feedback or I'm same thing on

00:46:46.700 Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12, just to, just to feel, uh, uh, let me know what you think because I'm, uh,

00:46:52.780 a very, um, I love the feedback, right? I read all the reviews in iTunes. I, and I want, um, coaching

00:46:59.300 and I want to see what people like and what they don't. And so I can fix the things people don't

00:47:03.700 like and I'll continue doing the things that people do like. Awesome. Well, outside of your email

00:47:08.800 address and Twitter, what, if somebody wants to learn more about what you're doing with your podcast,

00:47:13.540 how do we connect with you there? Yeah. Learning leader show.com it's a right there or Ryan Hawk.net

00:47:18.700 will launch a show on iTunes, uh, as well. So you can, uh, I just like you, you know,

00:47:23.640 ratings and reviews and, uh, and iTunes is a big deal. And so I love if you've, you listen to the

00:47:29.700 show and you like the show, um, you know, go to, you know, write a review and, and, and rate it for

00:47:35.460 me. Cause that's, uh, that's how I learned. Well, we'll make sure again, we have all of those links

00:47:40.160 in the show notes to be able to connect with you and learn more about what we talked, all those books

00:47:43.660 and the links and everything that we went through. Cause we went through a ton of information,

00:47:46.640 but Ryan, I appreciate you so much being on the show today. Hey man, Ryan, I really appreciate

00:47:50.700 you having me, man. I hope you enjoyed that interview today. If I can, I'd like you to ask

00:47:55.960 you to rally around the mission of Ryan Hawk's podcast with regards to leadership and reach

00:48:01.360 out, connect with him. And again, if you want to do that, you can find his contact information

00:48:05.840 and of course other resources from his show at order of man.com slash zero zero eight. Next week,

00:48:11.400 I've got an interview lined up with a man who's all about helping people with their relationships

00:48:15.260 with their significant others. And guys, if you're anything like me, when it comes to me

00:48:20.180 and my relationship with my spouse, we, as men can use all the help we can get. Make sure

00:48:25.340 you don't miss that by subscribing to the show at order of man.com slash iTunes. And while you're

00:48:30.380 there, please, if you would show your support for the show by leaving us a rating and review.

00:48:35.120 Thanks again for being here today. And I will look forward to being with you here next week.

00:48:39.440 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

00:48:44.900 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - May 12, 2015

OoM 008： How to Become a Better Leader with Ryan Hawk

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