Order of Man - OoM 009： How to Make the Relationship with Your Woman Work, Luis Congdon

00:00:00.000 If you're anything like me, you could use some help in the relationship with your spouse department.

00:00:04.000 I try to be a good husband and companion, but it's easy for me to fall short.

00:00:07.460 When things are great with my wife, things are great in other areas of my life,

00:00:10.680 but when I'm struggling in my relationship with her, it spills over and affects other areas.

00:00:15.220 That is why my conversation today with Lewis Congdon with Lasting Love Connection is so powerful.

00:00:20.860 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest.

00:00:23.740 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:26.380 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time.

00:00:30.140 Every time, you are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:36.180 This is your life. This is who you are.

00:00:38.700 This is who you will become.

00:00:40.360 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:47.040 Men, welcome back to the Order of Men podcast.

00:00:49.140 My name is Ryan Michler. I am glad that you've tuned in today.

00:00:51.900 We've got a great one lined up, and we're going to be talking about a topic that we have not yet discussed on this show before,

00:00:57.460 and that is how to build a better relationship with your spouse or your significant other.

00:01:02.440 But before we get into that, I mentioned to you last week that we started a YouTube channel that I wanted to invite you to subscribe to.

00:01:09.180 We just released a video today on why it is so important that you stop comparing yourself to other men.

00:01:14.520 So you can go to youtube.com slash orderofman, and be sure to check it out and subscribe to our YouTube channel.

00:01:21.720 Now, before we meet our guest today, I want to be sure to let you know that you can check out all the show notes for this show at orderofman.com slash 009.

00:01:31.560 Now, my guest today is Louis Congdon.

00:01:33.580 Louis is a relationship coach, and he's worked with literally hundreds of couples.

00:01:37.700 And he's also worked for one of the nation's largest research projects looking at marital success.

00:01:43.400 So in addition to that, he also hosts a top-rated podcast called Lasting Love Connection, which is how I found out about him and his work.

00:01:52.360 Louis, I'm so excited to have you on the show today. Thanks for joining us.

00:01:55.260 Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

00:01:57.480 So we got connected through a group that we belong to for podcasters, and I was excited that you actually reached out to me because I had seen your show.

00:02:06.380 I think we launched our shows about the same time. Lasting Love Connection is your show, and so I'm excited to talk with you about that.

00:02:12.400 Tell me a little bit about your podcast and how you got started with that.

00:02:14.960 Definitely. Well, you know, Lasting Love Connection is a show for people who want to have lasting love, who want to have a relationship that lasts.

00:02:24.580 So, you know, if you've had a few heartbreaks in your life or if you're in a new relationship or want to be in a relationship and want to know how to make that one last, the show is for you.

00:02:35.200 And, you know, to answer that question, how did I get started?

00:02:39.340 Well, I got started because I was heartbroken and I didn't know how to make a relationship last and had various relationships where I fell in love, not work out.

00:02:51.280 So I really committed myself to learning and trying to understand what makes a relationship successful.

00:02:57.240 And if I do all those things, then I'm most likely going to be able to produce those results.

00:03:02.240 So I'm married now and we've been happily married for almost 11 years, but I've also been in relationships in the past where, like you said, it just hasn't worked out.

00:03:13.480 Are there relationships that just aren't meant to be or is it the fact that maybe one or both of us just didn't work hard enough?

00:03:21.140 What is your thought there?

00:03:21.960 You know, I really believe that two people joining together is such a special experience.

00:03:29.880 Two people meeting and falling in love is an incredibly special experience, but that experience isn't always meant to last.

00:03:37.700 I do think that just like anything in our lives, that if we learn the proper steps, we can be excellent at whatever it is that we learn about.

00:03:46.200 And relationships, marriages, they all require certain skill.

00:03:51.100 If love was enough, we wouldn't have such a high divorce rate or just breakup rate in general.

00:03:56.300 So love isn't certainly enough.

00:03:58.000 You know, desiring to be an awesome basketball player is probably not going to be enough.

00:04:02.460 You're going to need some coaching.

00:04:04.060 And yeah, there are some people that, you know, either they didn't do enough and there are some cases where people just grow apart.

00:04:12.020 And it's probably better for them to part.

00:04:14.040 I mean, we've all met that couple that just seems horrible together, but they just keep staying together and staying together.

00:04:21.160 And they're only bragging right to their relationship is how long they've been together.

00:04:25.420 And ideally, our bragging about, you know, our relationship is how awesome it makes us feel, how good it is for us and how others feel when they're around us.

00:04:35.020 You know, what's really interesting is in 2005, I went to Iraq for, I was gone for 18 months and my wife and I had been married for, I believe, five months before I left.

00:04:47.940 And when I got back, it was probably one of the hardest things that I've ever done.

00:04:54.720 And my wife would attest to this too, to make our relationship work.

00:04:58.000 And I know through all the trials that we went through when I got back, the effort that we put into it was well worth it.

00:05:05.080 So how does a guy know when it's worth putting effort into something and maybe it's just time to cut the chain and let things go?

00:05:14.220 You know, that's such a deeply personal answer that there's no cookie cutout answer to that.

00:05:21.500 I mean, each person really has to navigate that for themselves.

00:05:24.360 But I'm a strong believer that when things are rough, it doesn't mean that you give up.

00:05:29.560 And if you're willing to put in, you know, at least a half a year of really hard times or even a year or two.

00:05:35.740 I mean, I had a guy on my show who told me he was married for 27 years of hell.

00:05:40.860 He absolutely, he said he just hated his wife.

00:05:43.040 She was like the worst person and he hated his life because of her.

00:05:47.680 And, you know, around the 27th year, he said this has to change.

00:05:51.700 On the 28th year, he said he fell in love with her, was incredibly happy to be married with her.

00:05:58.200 And now they've been together for well over 40 years.

00:06:01.200 And while he was on my show, he was just like, she's one of the most beautiful, spectacular women that I could ever be with.

00:06:08.940 And I'm so happy I married her.

00:06:10.900 So, you know, it's going to be a very, very personal answer.

00:06:14.540 But I think that nowadays, a lot of people give up sooner than they should.

00:06:19.680 So how did the gentleman who you had on your podcast, what changed?

00:06:22.720 After 20, I think you said 27 years, all of a sudden he goes to the next year of loving this incredible woman.

00:06:28.700 What changed in their life to make that happen?

00:06:31.760 He was a really unique guest because on my show, I bring on experts who, you know, most of them have been married for a very long time.

00:06:39.580 They write about, they talk about, they daydream about their whole life is dedicated to helping couples and helping couples have lasting love.

00:06:48.320 And unlike the other guests that I've had on the show, his whole thing was it only takes one person to change to change a whole relationship.

00:06:57.340 So my guests usually talk a lot about how we can communicate as a couple, you know, the give and take, what we can do, what they can do.

00:07:04.300 And this dynamic of two, his whole thing was I really started focusing on what I did like about her.

00:07:10.260 I started focusing on what was great about her and I started looking at me and what made me feel that this relationship was hell.

00:07:17.940 And the things that I hated about her, I started looking at them in a different way.

00:07:21.380 Like she's incredibly sensitive.

00:07:23.400 So what is that teaching me?

00:07:25.900 How do I learn how to be sensitive to that sensitivity?

00:07:28.360 How do I learn how to open up and come close if she's really trying to force me to be more united in a relationship?

00:07:35.580 If she wants to be more of a team and it used to feel like she was constantly dominating me or trying to tell me what to do, 0.86

00:07:42.600 I started looking at, oh, she wants to merge.

00:07:44.960 She wants to create decisions together.

00:07:47.140 And so his whole thing was this relationship is for me a process of healing what I didn't get in childhood.

00:07:55.660 And I'm going to start healing myself and not actually try to change a single thing about her.

00:08:01.080 That's interesting.

00:08:02.080 We've actually had quite a few guests that have talked about how if you change your truth or the way that you look at the world or the way that you're perceiving things,

00:08:12.040 then your world begins to change for the better if you're willing to face the hard truths and think about how you want to address life and what you want to get out of it.

00:08:20.820 Right, right.

00:08:21.580 So you talked about divorce and obviously, I don't know the statistics.

00:08:25.440 You'd know them better than I do just because of your field of work.

00:08:27.880 But why is divorce so prevalent?

00:08:31.760 Why do we see that so much more than we did 10 years or 20 or 50 years ago?

00:08:36.180 What's changed to make that the case?

00:08:38.320 You know, my perspective on that is that we live in a faster paced culture.

00:08:43.920 And so people are changing at a much more rapid rate.

00:08:48.040 You know, my dad has had the same job for over 30 years and his parents kind of the same thing, but probably even longer.

00:08:56.180 Also, our grounding and religion and old values aren't the same.

00:09:01.280 So, you know, we hop from job to job.

00:09:03.720 We try out different hobbies.

00:09:06.000 We explore the world and move.

00:09:07.780 You know, people can live in several states now.

00:09:10.260 People can date multiple people now.

00:09:13.080 There's, you know, it's more okay nowadays to, you know, be polyamorous or to be kind of have this open type of relationship or to date multiple people at once.

00:09:23.640 It's just a very different culture in regards to our perspective of what commitment means in being with one person.

00:09:29.600 I also think that part of it is that humans are living longer than they ever have.

00:09:33.900 So there isn't, there wasn't as much of an opportunity for people to get sick of each other.

00:09:39.140 And then there was a culture around each other.

00:09:41.400 There was a culture that kind of pushed you to stay together.

00:09:45.500 I'm from Latin America.

00:09:46.760 And in the Latin culture, it's a big no-no to get divorced.

00:09:51.060 You know, highly, highly entrenched in Catholicism.

00:09:54.020 And with that, I've met many, many couples who come from a strong Catholic background who are incredibly unhappy. 1.00

00:10:01.480 They're married to each other, but they see people outside of their relationship.

00:10:05.580 But they're upholding the status of we're married and we go out as a couple.

00:10:09.960 But later on during the week, we might go see somebody else or we don't enjoy being together.

00:10:14.620 So we go to events as a couple.

00:10:16.760 But then later on, we don't really spend time together.

00:10:19.720 So I think what you're talking about has a lot to do with our attention span as well.

00:10:24.820 Like our attention span seems to be a lot shorter than it's ever been.

00:10:28.040 And I assume that's the same way when it comes to relationships.

00:10:31.740 One of the things that I think is people just want to have excitement in their life,

00:10:36.500 whether it's their relationships or their career or their hobbies, whatever it is they may be doing,

00:10:40.720 they want to have excitement.

00:10:42.440 Sometimes it's just not as exciting as being married to one woman or with one woman.

00:10:48.780 How do you keep excitement in your life?

00:10:51.100 How do you keep that flame alive and that going so that it doesn't stagnate or become stale or boring?

00:10:57.540 Definitely.

00:10:57.880 One of the key things when I was working with only married couples and working only with married couples who had children, 0.97

00:11:05.080 and I worked with over 200 couples in this time period,

00:11:08.260 when I was working with these couples,

00:11:10.480 the number one thing that all of them told me that was a killer to their marriage was the daily grind,

00:11:16.760 the daily routine, get up, go to work, take care of the kids, make their food, pick them up,

00:11:21.600 do these tasks at work, come home, help my wife clean and cook and go to bed and do it all over again.

00:11:28.880 And so the number one solution that everybody said was mix it up.

00:11:33.600 But really, how do you mix it up when you have such a structured life and you have to maintain some sort of structure

00:11:39.280 when you have so many obligations on a daily basis?

00:11:43.080 One of the things that I discovered, and you're going to hear this across the board,

00:11:46.320 it's nothing new, is creating a date night and putting it on the calendar and making it very, very important.

00:11:53.420 So it's important for me to get up and go to work, and if I don't, I'll get fired.

00:11:56.920 Well, if I don't do a date with my partner and keep that romance and that excitement,

00:12:00.600 one of us is going to get fired or it's not going to work very well.

00:12:05.160 So putting it on the calendar, and my first tip for people when it comes to date nights is make them very simple.

00:12:12.180 Hey, let's put it down on the calendar.

00:12:14.980 We're going to meet it this day, and we're just going to go walk around the block

00:12:19.320 or go to the park for a half hour.

00:12:22.020 We're going to bring some snack bars and juice, and we're going to have a conversation.

00:12:25.380 It can be really that simple.

00:12:27.460 I met a couple who had eight children, and they told me that every Sunday,

00:12:33.760 every Sunday they would lock their doors to their room, and they would tell the kids,

00:12:38.620 you guys need to all take care of each other.

00:12:40.980 They really spoke to the older kids, and they said, you know, for the next couple hours,

00:12:45.180 you are responsible for the household, you know, and we're going to lock the doors.

00:12:49.900 And the only reason we're going to come out is if there's like a fire or something really, really important.

00:12:57.160 Otherwise, we don't want to come out.

00:12:58.880 And for them, you know, they told us they actually even scheduled their sex life

00:13:03.580 because they really needed to.

00:13:06.000 You know, they're taking care of eight kids.

00:13:08.820 You're going to be pretty damn tired by the end of the day, and maybe sex is not going to be a priority.

00:13:13.780 So for them, Sunday mornings was the day that, you know, we're going to meet,

00:13:17.200 we're going to be intimate, and this is going to be our date with the closed doors.

00:13:20.640 The kids are on the other side, so we know that they're safe,

00:13:23.440 and if we have to, we'll come out, but we're really going to try not to.

00:13:27.420 Let's talk about the opposite of this because I think having structure, that's important,

00:13:31.540 but also being spontaneous.

00:13:33.620 I know my wife responds really well, too.

00:13:36.580 So how do you do that?

00:13:38.260 How can you be spontaneous when, you know, you're exhausted at the end of the day

00:13:43.200 or you've got all these obligations?

00:13:44.580 What are some things that you can do, and how do you become more spontaneous?

00:13:49.780 I think you can still plan spontaneity.

00:13:52.960 I mean, you can make space for it because, you know, you can say we're going to go out

00:13:58.000 Tuesday for these hours, but we're not certainly sure what we're going to do.

00:14:02.900 I mean, you can still be open or you can tell your partner, you know,

00:14:06.700 we're going to meet for this time, but I'm not going to tell you what it is.

00:14:09.100 So that still would open her up for her to have a spontaneous experience.

00:14:13.860 And I want to turn that question back on you is how do you do that?

00:14:18.380 Oh, that's a good man.

00:14:19.400 You're not supposed to ask me questions.

00:14:21.380 Well, I think, I think, you know, I honestly, for me, I don't have children.

00:14:26.100 So a lot of my life is spontaneous and I work from home with my partner.

00:14:30.320 So I have a lot of space for creativity and spontaneity in my relationship.

00:14:35.220 Well, I think that we try to do the same thing.

00:14:37.400 You know, we've got a lot of structure.

00:14:38.680 We've got three kids, you know, every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, I'm coaching the boys'

00:14:43.820 baseball team.

00:14:44.840 And fortunately, our youngest is not old enough to get into sports.

00:14:49.200 Otherwise, we'd be overwhelmed with that.

00:14:50.740 So I don't know.

00:14:52.020 I guess that's why I was answering the question or asking the question because, man, I get so

00:14:56.560 consumed and we have our date nights and we plan those things out.

00:15:00.560 But still, sometimes like I want to be exciting.

00:15:03.200 I want to be spontaneous and I don't want to structure everything down to the second or

00:15:09.100 minute.

00:15:09.720 I think one of the ways that you could do that is do try to find small ways to bring that

00:15:16.720 sort of spontaneity.

00:15:17.880 So maybe on your way home from work or when you have a moment, go grab her like her favorite

00:15:23.460 kind of candy and, you know, hide it under the pillow or something or write her a little

00:15:28.200 love note and stick it on the mirror.

00:15:30.120 So when she gets up in the morning, she sees that.

00:15:32.080 So you could bring spontaneous ways of showing her affection and love.

00:15:36.460 And we could think maybe what's her love language?

00:15:38.720 You know, is it touch?

00:15:39.800 Is it, you know, you know, the five love languages, right?

00:15:43.820 I've read it, but it's been a while.

00:15:45.520 So remind us.

00:15:46.360 Right.

00:15:46.580 So the five love languages, you know, one of them would be touch.

00:15:49.360 One of them would be time talking to each other.

00:15:51.760 I'm not going to give the names right, but the idea will be right here.

00:15:56.260 So touch, quality time spent together, affirmations, positive words, quality of, gosh, gifts.

00:16:07.120 I think gifts is one of them.

00:16:08.400 Gifts is the other one.

00:16:09.260 And I can't remember the fifth one.

00:16:10.960 This is, you know, the five love languages isn't like where I teach from.

00:16:14.660 But I think it's important to think about what are some of the top ways that your partner

00:16:18.980 likes to be loved and adored.

00:16:20.760 And then specifically try to give that type of affection to your partner.

00:16:25.060 You know, for me, my partner, it's touch.

00:16:28.100 So I can bring spontaneity to her if, you know, she's working or she's cooking.

00:16:33.180 And I just come up and I give her a little kiss and I just whisper, I love you.

00:16:36.620 And then, you know, let her do whatever she's doing. 1.00

00:16:38.840 I think that would be a really awesome way for you to bring spontaneity.

00:16:42.200 I don't want to sound cold at all here because I tend to be more of like, you know, very black

00:16:48.940 and white.

00:16:49.920 And one of the things that I think about, so again, don't take this as being cold.

00:16:54.480 But I think when you're talking with your significant other and you're using one of

00:16:59.760 the love languages that they associate best with, it's a very efficient way.

00:17:04.080 And that's why I don't want to be cold.

00:17:05.540 It's a very efficient way of showing your partner that you love them and you care about

00:17:10.380 them because that's the most meaningful thing that you can do.

00:17:14.060 That's the best use of your time in doing it the way that they respond best to you.

00:17:17.800 Am I understanding that correctly?

00:17:19.360 I think it's incredibly smart.

00:17:20.620 You know, I'm going to give you an example.

00:17:23.300 There was a couple in my class and the wife says, my partner doesn't say that he loves

00:17:30.120 me.

00:17:30.800 And on Valentine's Day, more than anything, what I wanted was flowers and for him to hold

00:17:36.840 me and say, I love you.

00:17:38.300 That that would have been the most romantic thing.

00:17:41.020 And he didn't do it.

00:17:42.060 He's not romantic.

00:17:42.860 And her husband was a little bit upset.

00:17:47.180 And then he, you know, he responded to the group and he said, you know, for Valentine's

00:17:52.260 Day, what I did is the week leading up to Valentine's Day, I looked at her car.

00:17:57.040 She had been having some issues with it.

00:17:58.620 And for the whole week, every day when I came home, I worked several hours on her car.

00:18:03.620 So come Valentine's Day, she had her car working perfectly.

00:18:08.460 And it was a lot of work for me.

00:18:10.980 And that was my gift to her.

00:18:12.360 I went out and got all the parts.

00:18:13.760 I looked at her car.

00:18:15.100 I talked to her about what wasn't working.

00:18:17.560 You know, it's a lot of work to work on a car.

00:18:19.860 If anybody's, you know, done some big parts on their car, they know that.

00:18:23.900 But for her, that wasn't romantic.

00:18:26.240 And for him in his mind, Jesus, wouldn't you love having someone work on your car and fix

00:18:30.220 it for you?

00:18:30.680 Well, you know, what's really interesting about that is one of the things I talk a lot

00:18:35.960 about is communication and communication styles.

00:18:39.220 And my thought is that if you're trying to communicate with somebody else and that somebody

00:18:44.300 else doesn't understand what you're saying, it's not their fault.

00:18:48.660 You're doing a bad job of communicating your message.

00:18:52.080 And so I think that's what we're talking about here is that, yes, you may think that's the

00:18:56.060 best thing to do, but if you're not communicating that in a way that she's responding to, that's

00:19:02.200 on you.

00:19:02.640 That's your fault.

00:19:03.280 You've got to figure out what she's going to respond best to.

00:19:06.860 For some reason, it makes me think of this comedian saying, you know, I know my wife thinks

00:19:11.180 about me all the time and that she loves me.

00:19:13.420 And because she thinks about me so much on Christmas, I bought her all the things that

00:19:17.120 I wanted.

00:19:17.760 So I got her a whole bunch of tools to work on the car. 1.00

00:19:21.620 That's fun.

00:19:22.180 Well, OK, so I think part of this is has a lot to do with awareness and definitely the

00:19:29.400 five love languages would probably be a book that it sounds like you would recommend going

00:19:33.200 through.

00:19:34.080 What are some other ways that men can become more aware of what their partner responds

00:19:37.880 to and then how they're showing their affection or their love?

00:19:42.760 You know, one of the things that a lot of that a lot of people have problems with when

00:19:47.380 they think about professionals talking about their relationships is that most professionals

00:19:52.100 or every professional is a human being and they're working on their relationship, but

00:19:57.460 we don't hear a lot about that.

00:19:58.760 So I want to open it up a little bit about myself.

00:20:01.080 And one of the transformations that I've been going and really answers your question is what's

00:20:06.500 a way that I can communicate with my partner and give her a sense of I'm deeply present

00:20:12.160 for you.

00:20:13.260 And during and I really want to hone in a time during conflict.

00:20:18.380 Now, so she's upset with me about something.

00:20:20.300 I'm upset about something.

00:20:22.300 And what usually happens is we get defensive or we're criticized.

00:20:25.340 This is really the top two things that we do to avoid resolution.

00:20:30.780 You know, my partner says, God, Luis, you're you're always messy or you you just blow up

00:20:35.000 at me constantly and you don't listen to me, something like that.

00:20:38.220 And I said, well, that's because you don't ask me or because you don't, you know, do whatever.

00:20:41.840 And so I throw the problem back on her and what she's doing by the way that she's talking

00:20:47.540 to me.

00:20:47.800 She's being critical of me instead of opening, helping open me up and, you know, being curious

00:20:53.920 about the problem.

00:20:54.800 One of the things that I've really been going through.

00:20:56.840 So the other day we were at a restaurant and she asked me if I could order some nachos

00:21:04.100 and it was packed in there.

00:21:05.400 So we had to stand at the bar and order some nachos.

00:21:07.760 I did that.

00:21:08.760 The food came and she was like, oh, my gosh, this food's like really expensive.

00:21:13.340 How about we order a meal and share it?

00:21:15.600 And I felt a little bit frustrated, like, OK, I just ordered you nachos because you're

00:21:20.220 incredibly hungry.

00:21:21.120 I had to make my way through a crowd and order them for you.

00:21:24.040 And then they came and I don't eat cheese.

00:21:26.580 It's not I can't eat cheese.

00:21:28.080 And so I felt a little bit irritated, like, OK, so now you want to eat all these nachos

00:21:31.900 and then you want to order a plate of food and share it.

00:21:35.260 And I'm probably not going to eat enough.

00:21:37.620 It's just like that's what came up for me.

00:21:39.320 But I felt upset.

00:21:40.540 I was like, fine, we'll just order just pick whatever you want.

00:21:43.220 But I was upset.

00:21:44.100 And I was very short on sleep.

00:21:47.340 So, you know, I was upset.

00:21:49.260 And then later I was asking her about what she wants to do with her business.

00:21:52.240 I said, what do you want to do with your business?

00:21:54.440 And she said, gosh, when you ask me that, it just feels like you're attacking me, you

00:21:58.000 know, and I don't want to answer your question.

00:21:59.980 So we're kind of just like getting upset with each other.

00:22:03.660 Yeah.

00:22:04.140 And then I just, you know, I was like, I don't want to be fighting.

00:22:09.240 And so what I said to her is I said, let's try a new way of dialoguing.

00:22:13.220 And instead of me, you know, getting upset with you because you're getting angry at me

00:22:18.680 because I'm asking a question that I'm genuinely curious about, I'm going to ask myself, why?

00:22:24.200 What is it about me and the way that I'm handling myself when I ask you this question that would

00:22:28.960 create that response?

00:22:30.140 So I'm 100% responsible, not for her, but for my experience of her and my experience of the moment.

00:22:37.980 And so I said to her, you know, I'm going to guess that you're probably responding in an angry way

00:22:44.100 or feeling like I'm coming at you in an angry way when I ask you that question

00:22:48.500 because I've been incredibly confused about what your business and where you want to take it.

00:22:55.200 And that makes me very nervous because I don't get to do what I want to as a man,

00:23:00.280 which is help you and help guide you and open up a world for you.

00:23:05.400 And because I'm not getting the answer that I'm looking for, I'm irritated and I feel so incompetent.

00:23:11.540 And yeah, I am asking you from a place of irritation and not from a place of,

00:23:16.360 hey, tell me, I'm really curious and I'm not understanding.

00:23:19.940 Could you please, you know, illuminate for me?

00:23:21.800 And so she said, you know, that's, that's different.

00:23:25.360 I like that.

00:23:26.280 And so she said, well, you know, I've been confused lately.

00:23:29.460 So when you ask me that question, it upsets me because it triggers that part of me that

00:23:34.500 doesn't like being confused.

00:23:36.660 And our dialogue completely changed.

00:23:39.520 There was nobody, there wasn't, nobody was triggering or pointing at each other.

00:23:43.800 Instead, it was, what am I doing in my life and what thoughts and feelings am I holding

00:23:49.680 in when I speak out to you that then is creating that you back to me?

00:23:55.520 Does that make sense?

00:23:57.300 It makes total sense.

00:23:58.460 And this is so funny because it's a reoccurring trend.

00:24:01.440 I think we're, we've done, I've done close to 15 to 20 interviews with successful men,

00:24:07.300 you included, and this is a reoccurring trend that we've got to take responsibility as men

00:24:14.860 for our own life, for our own decisions, for our own thoughts.

00:24:19.180 And the moment we do that is when things become clear and become easier.

00:24:24.020 So I'm glad you brought up that point.

00:24:26.040 Yeah.

00:24:26.500 Yeah.

00:24:26.780 I just think that a lot of times we think that if somebody doesn't like us or if somebody

00:24:31.740 has a problem with us, it's their problem and it doesn't, and when I say it's actually

00:24:37.160 not their problem, it's our problem, it's a hundred percent our problem. 0.65

00:24:41.200 I don't mean that you really, maybe that person is kind of like someone you don't want

00:24:45.800 to talk to, or maybe they are rude, but it's your problem in regards how you're going

00:24:49.840 to handle that.

00:24:50.580 And if you're going to be in a relationship with that person, because there are times

00:24:54.060 when we don't like our partner.

00:24:55.760 And if we have those moments with our partner, it's not their problem at all that they're having

00:25:01.360 a problem with us.

00:25:02.240 It is once we take it back on ourselves, I promise you, you will transform your relationship

00:25:08.200 and bring a whole new level of presence that will make anybody really, honestly, anybody

00:25:14.480 pretty much melt in your presence and want to be around you.

00:25:18.140 So you alluded to this already.

00:25:20.180 And one of the mistakes that I fall prey to every time is that when my wife wants to tell

00:25:27.360 me about a problem or a hard day or something that's going on with the kids.

00:25:31.360 And you said it perfectly.

00:25:32.480 I just want to help.

00:25:33.540 Okay, great.

00:25:34.240 I'm glad you told me that.

00:25:35.560 What can I do to help you now with that problem?

00:25:39.220 And so that's a huge problem.

00:25:40.440 I think all men understand that sometimes women just want to talk, I guess.

00:25:45.280 So what are some other mistakes that you see as being fairly common that guys are making

00:25:51.160 in relationships?

00:25:52.200 I had Dr. John Gray on my show and we talked about this and we talked about modern man, which

00:25:57.180 is so perfect for your show.

00:25:59.580 One of the first things I asked them is, how has the role of the modern man changed from

00:26:04.000 the man, you know, 50, 60, 100 years ago?

00:26:08.040 And back then it was a man's role to provide for the home and to take care of things. 0.90

00:26:13.920 You know, my grandfather, his role was pay the bills, work, and his wife's job was to take

00:26:21.600 care of the home and when I went in their home, I didn't see a lot of her talking to

00:26:27.400 him about their problems or about her feelings or even asking him for a whole lot.

00:26:32.380 He just went and did the man thing.

00:26:34.320 You know, he was down in the basement doing man stuff and working on his projects, right,

00:26:38.540 and taking care of the home.

00:26:40.740 Compared to with my dad, different generation, I've seen many moments where my dad would say, 1.00

00:26:46.560 hey, babe, how are you?

00:26:47.540 How was your day?

00:26:48.280 How did things go?

00:26:49.540 What can I help you with?

00:26:50.460 How about I prep dinner?

00:26:51.800 Things like that.

00:26:52.580 So it's a significant shift.

00:26:54.700 And then now my generation where it is even more normal that men and women work, both of

00:27:00.440 them, and it's even becoming more normal that women can make a lot more money than men can. 1.00

00:27:05.120 So how does that change the role of a man?

00:27:07.760 And it changes it significantly.

00:27:10.360 And going back to my dad one more time, when my stepmom's mom died, my dad was kind of going

00:27:18.640 through a rough time because he really wanted to support and love his wife the best way

00:27:23.460 that he could.

00:27:24.400 And he came to me and he said, Luis, you know, you study this stuff.

00:27:27.440 And I keep trying to listen to my wife and she gets upset sometimes.

00:27:31.980 And I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

00:27:34.660 And I said the exact I kind of went back to this thing.

00:27:37.980 I said, Dad, you want to take care of things.

00:27:40.360 So your nature is to try to frame things in a positive way to give her comforting words.

00:27:46.540 And that's all great and dandy.

00:27:48.360 But I bet you the biggest thing that she wants is for you to actually hear her emotions and

00:27:53.880 then respond back to the feelings that you're hearing.

00:27:56.880 So if she's feeling really upset and flustered, don't try to give her solutions and don't

00:28:01.260 say, well, you know, don't worry about it, babe.

00:28:02.860 Things are going to get better.

00:28:04.100 Like that's he's so amazing at that.

00:28:06.260 But he needed to shift.

00:28:07.280 And his biggest shift was he started doing things like, wow, that sounds like you had a

00:28:11.600 really frustrating day.

00:28:12.840 Do you want to tell me more about it?

00:28:14.580 Right.

00:28:14.720 And a week later, he called me and he said, Luis, it's been working really well.

00:28:19.220 She hasn't been getting upset when I'm listening and I'm noticing she's opening up more.

00:28:23.740 And she even said, wow, Ernie, I really like the way that you've been listening to me and

00:28:27.640 I really appreciate it.

00:28:28.900 So I think the biggest thing is men that we can do is learn how to cue ourselves to listen

00:28:35.160 to emotions.

00:28:36.640 Women on a just generally speaking, speak on an emotional level. 1.00

00:28:41.140 So we're listening to a woman.

00:28:42.740 And we want to pick out what emotion she's emoting.

00:28:46.080 And it doesn't matter if you think you're right or you're wrong as long as you try.

00:28:50.640 So if your partner is coming to you and says, God, I had an amazing day at work and things

00:28:55.560 are going so well and you think that she's exuding frustration, wow, it sounds like you

00:29:00.140 had a frustrating day. 1.00

00:29:01.120 She might go, no, you idiot. 1.00

00:29:02.600 I had an awesome day. 1.00

00:29:03.840 Are you listening?

00:29:04.940 And that's OK.

00:29:05.920 At least you're trying.

00:29:07.160 Then all you have to do is go, oh, wow, it sounds like you had an exciting day.

00:29:10.860 That's awesome.

00:29:11.440 Tell me more.

00:29:12.640 So it doesn't matter if you're wrong on the emotion.

00:29:16.100 What matters is that you're trying and do not try to fix the problem.

00:29:20.440 And that's usually one of the biggest problems men have when we are in a situation of having

00:29:26.540 a problem with our partner.

00:29:27.580 How do you keep from so here's my I'm going to play devil's advocate if it's OK a little

00:29:32.620 bit here with you.

00:29:34.160 So let's say my wife and I are having this conversation and she tells me about a problem

00:29:39.060 that she's having with one of the children and my knee jerk reaction because I'm a guy

00:29:43.280 and this is what I'm supposed to do as far as I know is to try to fix the problem.

00:29:47.240 She gets upset.

00:29:47.900 How do I be OK with that knowing that my need is to fix something even though her need is

00:29:57.520 just a shoulder to cry on?

00:29:59.180 Like how do how do I I don't want to sound selfish, but how do I in that case get fulfilled

00:30:05.020 if that makes sense?

00:30:05.880 So at the at the end of the conversation, you still have this strong impulse as a man to

00:30:14.900 go and fix the problem and and you might not feel fully satisfied until you go fix the

00:30:20.100 problem.

00:30:21.000 Right.

00:30:21.980 My question, my my sense for that would be is that you would want to ask her, hey, babe,

00:30:27.600 you know, this is it seems like a really big issue and it's really frustrating you.

00:30:30.960 And so you would start with that.

00:30:32.460 Start definitely with level one is just connecting to her and find out how she's feeling.

00:30:37.740 Really learn about the problem, because a lot of times what I found about women is most 1.00

00:30:42.680 of the time and just people in general, honestly, most people don't want you to solve the problem

00:30:46.660 for them and most people don't want you to give the solution.

00:30:50.600 Most people already know the solution and they know how to solve it.

00:30:54.100 So when people come to us, they're generally wanting to just kind of dump their problem on

00:30:58.380 us. And so the best thing we can do is try to really understand the issue and how they

00:31:04.480 feel about it. And once we notice that their body relaxes and they go, you know, you notice

00:31:10.820 this sense of, oh, my God, I feel so much better that I talked to you. But now you're the guy sitting

00:31:14.860 like, I got this problem. I need to go talk to the kids, you know, it's not that work isn't

00:31:20.100 working. I'm going to go talk to your coworker. Like whatever it is, we were kind of stuck with

00:31:24.260 it. At some point we might want to ask our partner, hey, you know, I heard you listen,

00:31:29.980 you know, I listened to you talk about this problem and I just feel this big impulse to

00:31:34.040 go solve it. I'm curious, is that something, do you want me to do something about it or

00:31:38.900 what were you thinking would be a good solution? And we know what we found with parenting, at

00:31:46.540 least when you're talking to kind of slightly older kids, is that if we can help our kids

00:31:50.620 come to their own solution, they're more likely to go about taking that plan of action.

00:31:57.520 And it's very much the same with our partner, is if we ask them, you know, what are you thinking

00:32:02.520 would work or did you want me to somehow participate in this? If we elicit that, then I

00:32:09.140 think as a male, then we're going to meet our need to resolve the problem because we're asking them

00:32:13.580 to give us what they want us to do or we're talking about it. And this is very idealized,

00:32:18.660 I know, because sometimes we're going to go off and we're stuck on this is the way we're

00:32:22.960 going to fix it. And that might happen sometimes. But in an idealized world, we might just ask

00:32:28.080 her, you know, what what are some ideas that you had around fixing this problem? Or were 0.96

00:32:33.020 you thinking that you wanted me to do something? I like that. I'm going to try that because I

00:32:37.620 can see how that would be a lot more advantageous than the traditional route that I typically

00:32:41.780 take. So what are some other mistakes outside of maybe trying to fix everything? Are there

00:32:47.600 some other mistakes that you see taking place quite a bit from the man's side? Anyways,

00:32:51.500 the biggest the biggest thing and I don't know how to capture it completely in words, but

00:32:58.100 if men can learn how to be present in their body, and just kind of moves, like, have the sense of like

00:33:05.720 slowing down your pace and really getting in your body. It's like when I go to the gym, I just feel

00:33:10.520 like, Oh, I feel strong. And I'm, I'm very I'm inhabiting my body. If that makes sense at all,

00:33:16.280 like my breath is deep, my posture is strong. And when we're kind of in that space, we're able to

00:33:23.760 take in a lot, we're able to listen to people, we're able to really be there for our partner and

00:33:31.540 be in our body. See, I'm not completely sure how to put this. It's just something that I've really

00:33:36.260 been getting in touch with is, how do I bring enough awareness into my body so that when I touch

00:33:41.980 my, my partner, or when I speak to her, I can kind of already feel what she's wanting or needing,

00:33:48.720 you know, because there is this thing about women that they kind of, they kind of want us to know 1.00

00:33:56.420 what they want. Right. And a lot of that really requires this kind of like strong male presence.

00:34:03.920 And the best way that I found that for men is do things that help you get inside your body so you

00:34:11.620 can really feel your body. You know, one of the things that I did with this couple is I had the

00:34:17.280 man just take some really deep breath. He just went, and then I had him look into his wife's eyes. 0.99

00:34:24.040 And this was a couple that had a lot of problems. They just pretty much could not

00:34:29.660 stop arguing. Their problem was they just fought constantly. And I said, let's stop the dialogue

00:34:36.720 completely. I don't want to talk about the issues. It's just way too much in your guys' heads. You

00:34:42.360 know, you guys fell in love and, and had children because you became two bodies and you weren't just

00:34:48.380 up in your heads thinking about she did this and I did that and blah, blah, blah. So let's just take

00:34:53.960 some deep breaths. Let's eye gaze and just look into your partner. And then what I had him do is I

00:34:59.380 said, I want you to follow your wife's breath, match hers. And he was just gazing into her eyes,

00:35:05.080 just matching her breath. And then I said, and now I want you to put your arms on her leg and just put 1.00

00:35:11.060 your hands on her legs and just feel her. And as you're putting your hands there and following her

00:35:17.060 breath, send her love. You love her and you care about her and just feel that in your body. And the

00:35:24.800 wife who just, she just was always like tense. I mean, she just looked like she was just ready to 1.00

00:35:29.840 fight constantly. You know what? And it, and it, women aren't fully in their feminine if that's the 1.00

00:35:36.660 way they're being. I mean, women, they're made to be, you know, relaxed. Everybody is. But when a woman 1.00

00:35:44.100 is when you see a woman relaxed and she feels comfortable, her shoulders drop, her gaze softens,

00:35:51.460 her eyes light up, you know, she has more access to her emotions. She can cry easily. She can laugh

00:35:58.220 faster. She can take care of you and love you. Her body is much more accessible. And in this process of 0.99

00:36:05.440 him doing this with her, she started crying, her shoulders dropped. She kind of slouched a little bit

00:36:10.340 and she just leaned forward and hugged him, you know, and they both came together with the sense

00:36:15.920 of mutualness, you know, but she became this like soft flower that wanted to be grabbed by him.

00:36:22.400 And I don't know how to explain how magical that was. I'm hoping that if you're listening to this,

00:36:28.380 you get how magical that was for this man to stop fighting with his wife and trying to prove her wrong

00:36:35.320 and for him to be right. And instead to help her become so soft that there wasn't a fight in her

00:36:41.680 and then he could hold her. And then he didn't have a damn thing to prove to her because he got her love.

00:36:48.340 Right. That's such a good story. Yeah, I can see how that would be very rewarding,

00:36:52.280 not only for them, but also for you and your role and what you do. So I want to talk about goals

00:36:57.240 because as a guy, I've got goals when it comes to my business. I've got goals when it comes to

00:37:04.120 finances. I've got goals when it comes to physical fitness. But one of the things that I have the

00:37:10.920 hardest time with and my wife and I do an annual retreat where we talk about goal setting and in

00:37:16.520 other every area of our lives. And I always have the hardest time when it comes to setting goals for

00:37:22.940 the relationship and what I want to accomplish. And so so how can we do that as guys? What are

00:37:29.780 some things that we should be focusing on on what we can improve and what some goals are in our

00:37:34.740 our relationships with our significant others? Hmm. I think the primary goal that we can have in our

00:37:43.120 relationship is making our partner feel safe, making our partner know that we are there for them,

00:37:51.580 that we love them, and that we care about them, and that we're not going to leave.

00:37:58.040 You know, one thing I've noticed is that as a woman gets closer to a man, you know, the kind of

00:38:02.860 traditional story is a man hunts for the woman, and then he gets her. But usually the education doesn't

00:38:10.220 really tell us that usually what tends to happen or what I've noticed is once a man has been praying

00:38:15.720 praying after a woman for a while, she generally comes in really hard, and she really wants the

00:38:22.260 relationship. This is the pattern I've noticed. And then men back out like, wait, you know, I don't

00:38:26.920 know. I'm not sure. You know, oh, marriage and kids. Oh, God, you know, like, I just wanted to catch

00:38:32.180 this prey, but now I don't know what to do with it. And that that goal changes. Now my goal is not to

00:38:37.660 chase after her so much. My goal is to make her feel safe, loved and adored and cared for, and that

00:38:43.700 she has value. And Ryan, you sound like you're really incredible at doing that, you know. And if

00:38:48.960 I was going to make a goal to make my relationship even stronger, one of the first goals that I start

00:38:55.920 with everybody, and if you're listening, I'm going to give you a gift to help you with this goal,

00:39:00.580 is updating the information of your partner's world. I see you guys have three kids. Both of you guys

00:39:06.920 work. So you guys change, obviously. But with so much going on, you're probably not consistently

00:39:13.580 up to date on what's going on with your partner. You know, the other day, I took my partner out to

00:39:20.020 a restaurant. And we ordered food. I ordered food without her knowing what I ordered for her.

00:39:27.680 And then it came and she said, you know, Luis, I actually don't like that dish anymore. And I said,

00:39:31.160 what do you mean? And she said, I don't know. I think they changed cooks here or something. But now

00:39:34.940 it's kind of gross. I don't like it. That was an opportunity I got to learn about her, right? And

00:39:41.280 the more we've been together, the more information that we've accumulated about our partner and

00:39:46.800 therefore also the more information that we probably haven't gone back and updated. Dr. John

00:39:51.760 Gottman from the University of Washington calls that love maps, love mapping. And a love map is the

00:39:57.440 internal world of your partner, their hopes, their dreams, their fears, everything about them.

00:40:01.800 And just like a city changes, the roadmap of our partner in their heart changes also. So we want

00:40:09.180 to update that information. So as a free gift to everybody who's listening, I want to give you

00:40:13.660 a list of questions that you can ask your partner so that you can update your information about them.

00:40:19.220 And what research has shown is that the more updated the information is in a relationship,

00:40:24.520 the happier the couple is, the better they are at problem solving,

00:40:27.820 and the more likely they're going to stay together for a really long time.

00:40:32.220 And I'm really glad that you brought it up too, because especially the emotional aspect,

00:40:36.060 and you talk about protecting, and that's what we feel our masculine role is. And I certainly agree

00:40:42.160 that's the case. But sometimes we don't really think about the protection from an emotional standpoint,

00:40:48.600 like how do I emotionally protect this woman versus just physically protecting, right?

00:40:52.900 And so I'm really glad that you brought that up. And there's been so much information. This interview

00:40:58.140 is like, it's been better for me, I think, than anybody listening. Like it's been so valuable for

00:41:02.560 me, I can see how I'm going to walk away. And I appreciate that, that free gift. I'm definitely

00:41:06.140 going to check that out. I encourage anybody who's listening to check that out as well.

00:41:10.300 So Luis, if there's guys listening that want to learn more about what it is that you're doing,

00:41:15.200 and how can they connect with you? How can they reach out to you?

00:41:19.560 Definitely. For any men who are listening, you can, men or women, for anybody who's listening,

00:41:24.600 you're welcome to go to lastingloveconnection.com. And you can find out about my podcast where I've

00:41:31.160 had some amazing guests. I'm starting a whole new lineup now where I'm going to have couples.

00:41:36.500 I would love it if you and your wife would come on the show, Ryan, and I'm interviewing couples about

00:41:40.840 the success and what's going on in their relationships so people can learn from couples.

00:41:45.480 I'm also having experts come on the show so that they can talk about their research,

00:41:49.200 their books, their work, and what they do, as well as some stuff that comes straight from me.

00:41:54.080 So you're welcome to go there. You can read about me on the about page,

00:41:57.360 and you can also go to the services if it's something that you desire to hire and work with me.

00:42:02.160 And you can also find me on Facebook and just send me a little message. I'd love to know what's

00:42:05.920 going on in your life. Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing all of that information,

00:42:10.140 and thanks for taking time out of your day to be on the show. I appreciate it.

00:42:13.140 Thank you, Ryan. It's been a blast, and thank you all of you who have been listening. Thank you so

00:42:17.020 much for spending some time with us. There you have it, guys. How you can be more successful

00:42:21.860 in your relationships with your spouse or your significant other. As I mentioned during the

00:42:25.980 interview, I think this episode was more for me than anyone else, and I walked away with a ton

00:42:30.820 of insight that I know will help me and my relationship with my wife. I hope it helps you as well.

00:42:35.540 Again, be sure to check out the show notes if you need to and the links for this podcast at

00:42:39.540 orderofman.com slash 009. Next week, I've got an interview lined up that I am so excited about.

00:42:46.180 I don't want to ruin the surprise, but let's just say the conversation could get a little hairy.

00:42:51.760 Do not miss that episode by subscribing to the show at orderofman.com slash iTunes. And while you're

00:42:59.020 there, if you would rally around the show, please leave us a rating or review. Thanks again for being here

00:43:03.600 today, and I will look forward to being with you here next week. Thank you for listening to the

00:43:08.500 Order of Man podcast. If you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant

00:43:13.520 to be, we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - May 19, 2015

OoM 009： How to Make the Relationship with Your Woman Work, Luis Congdon

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