Order of Man - OoM 010： How to Grow a Beard Like a Boss with Eric Bandholz

00:00:00.000 All right, guys, it's time to cover a topic that we have not yet addressed, and that is

00:00:03.500 the beard. It seems that it has become the universal sign of manliness, and I've got

00:00:07.940 Eric Bandholz with Beardbrand to talk with us about what a beard says about the men who wear

00:00:12.760 them, why beards are becoming more acceptable, and how you can grow a killer beard of your own.

00:00:19.100 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:23.920 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:29.060 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is

00:00:36.040 who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:41.740 you can call yourself a man. Men, welcome to the Order of Men podcast. My name is Ryan

00:00:47.200 Nickler, and I am glad that you're tuned in today. I hope that you enjoyed your Memorial Day and your

00:00:51.520 Memorial Day weekend. Hopefully, you got a barbecue in, but most importantly, I hope that you're able

00:00:57.060 to pause and reflect for at least a minute on the men and women who have given their all to build and

00:01:02.360 protect this country and give us the opportunity to do everything that we do, our jobs, and be with

00:01:08.040 our family, and this podcast, and all of the things that we enjoy. Now, today is going to be a great

00:01:12.960 episode on a topic that we have not yet covered, but before we get too far into the conversation,

00:01:18.800 I do want to give you the quick heads up and let you know that you can check out all the notes for

00:01:22.560 this show because there are a lot of notes. There are a lot of things and resources that

00:01:26.380 you'll want to take advantage. You can find those at orderofman.com slash 010. Now, let me introduce

00:01:33.460 you to my guest, Eric Bandholz. Eric is a leading grooming expert entrepreneur. He's a husband, a

00:01:41.020 father, a designer, and an urban beardsman, and we'll learn more about that, but he's also the founder

00:01:46.760 of Beardbrand and Urban Beardsman. I've talked with him now on two different occasions, and I know that

00:01:52.020 he has a vision for building a community of urban beardsmen. Since launching his e-commerce site

00:01:57.540 in January of 2013, Beardbrand has grown from zero to over $120,000 per month built primarily

00:02:05.880 on branding. He's appeared on Shark Tank. His YouTube channel has been viewed nearly 4 million

00:02:11.340 times. He's been featured in Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Details, Business Insider, Fast Company,

00:02:17.300 Forbes, you name it, he's been there, and I'm excited to have him on the show today.

00:02:20.860 Hey, Eric, I'm glad to have you on the show. Thanks for joining us today.

00:02:24.980 What's going on, Ryan? Pleasure to be a guest.

00:02:27.660 It's going to be exciting. We met a couple of weeks ago briefly. We didn't have very long

00:02:31.820 to talk, but we met at StyleCon. I was impressed with you. I'm impressed with your beard. I'm

00:02:36.600 impressed with your brand, so I'm stoked to have you on the show today.

00:02:39.220 Well, thank you. I'm glad that I was able to impress you, and StyleCon was a great time,

00:02:44.780 and it met really a lot of really incredible people, so it was definitely a time well worth.

00:02:51.680 Absolutely. So what I want to know, the first question I want to know is you and I have a

00:02:55.240 very similar background in financial planning. How does a financial advisor get into beard brand,

00:03:03.120 growing beards, beard maintenance, all the things that you're doing right now?

00:03:05.960 Well, you know, I think the beard has always been part of me, and it's not a question of

00:03:13.120 how do you get into beards, but it's how do you just do the things that you love rather

00:03:17.860 than doing the things that just pay you money. And when I was a financial advisor, I took that

00:03:23.940 job explicitly to get paid. I was in the midst of a few other business startups that weren't

00:03:32.320 getting off the ground and decided to cave my morals to work for the man for a while. And then

00:03:38.360 I kind of had, you know, I couldn't stand it, so I quit. And, you know, growing the beard was always

00:03:47.900 just something that meant something to me. It wasn't just like a thing of laziness. Like, it was

00:03:53.320 always, I always just enjoyed the process, and it's just been an extension of really my passion in life.

00:04:00.400 Yeah. So did you have the beard at all while you were a financial advisor, or were you beardless?

00:04:06.900 Well, you know, when I interviewed there and got started probably the first few months of training

00:04:13.240 when I was still, like, really concerned with the job and trying to do my best, I definitely fit the

00:04:18.480 mold that they wanted, which was, as you said, beardless or completely shaven. I appreciate you

00:04:24.260 using that term over clean shaven. And it was, as I started to get a little more disgruntled,

00:04:31.060 then I would be a little more confident with growing out like a little bit of scruff or

00:04:34.980 like a five o'clock shadow, something like that, two-week beard, something short.

00:04:39.840 Right. Yeah. The reason I bring it up is I'm still in the business, and so I am meeting with clients.

00:04:45.640 I'm a financial advisor, but I've got a probably about a month and a half to two-month beard

00:04:50.720 right now. So I was curious what your perception on that was as far as what's to be, you know,

00:04:56.320 quote-unquote, expected as a financial advisor, right?

00:04:59.180 Yeah. You know, there's always these pressures in society that may or may not accurately reflect

00:05:07.880 the majority of people. And I think it's kind of changing with beards. Like, there's a lot more

00:05:14.880 acceptance for a guy wearing a beard, especially a, you know, two or three-month-long beard that's

00:05:21.320 well-groomed, that the neckline and the cheek lines are taken care of, you know, applying beard

00:05:26.740 oil, it's washed, it smells good. Like, you know, people aren't really going to be concerned, even in

00:05:32.580 a role of financial advisor. And if you can, you know, dress up that part, if you, you know, wear your

00:05:40.100 suit, wear your tie, then I don't think it's really going to be a concern to any of your clients out

00:05:45.700 there to wear facial hair.

00:05:47.380 And that's one of the things I've noticed, is it actually is pretty cool when I wear my suit to have

00:05:52.080 that contrasting, you know, you've got your beard and maybe a little bit rebellious or whatever that

00:05:57.180 might mean, and then you've got your suit, which is, you know, what is expected. And so to have that

00:06:01.500 contrast and that something to compare, that's been a pretty interesting, kind of a fun thing as well.

00:06:06.440 Yeah. And, uh, you know, that's kind of, uh, like our, we're, we're style for the urban beardsmen

00:06:12.200 and the urban beardsmen is kind of that dichotomy of, you know, maybe slightly edgy, uh, with like a

00:06:18.160 more traditional kind of clean look. Um, so it's, I think that really like the beard tells, tells a

00:06:25.140 very, uh, important story for a lot of people. And it means a lot of different things, whether it's

00:06:31.220 known consciously or, or sub subliminally. Um, but it does strike like wisdom and strength and power.

00:06:38.540 Um, but it doesn't necessarily shrink like friendliness. So as a financial planner or

00:06:44.780 financial advisor, like you don't necessarily want to be that friendly guy. You want to be the guy who

00:06:50.060 knows what he's talking about, who can lead, who, you know, is, is someone that people will look up to.

00:06:56.580 Um, so I think there's, there's a lot of strength in having facial hair in the, the financial advising

00:07:04.500 world. Um, but, um, you know, I guess politicians still don't wear a beard. So, so maybe publicly

00:07:12.260 speaking or, or the majority of public still isn't a hundred percent favorable to the idea of it.

00:07:18.040 So I've got this question because you had talked about completely shaven versus clean shaven. And I

00:07:24.460 know that you did a debate at style con and it was, I think three or four of you with beards debated

00:07:29.200 guys who are completely shaven. Tell me a little bit about the terminology, why you, why you use the

00:07:35.180 word completely as opposed to clean shaven. Well, so the clean shaven word, I was doing a little bit

00:07:41.680 of research on it, came to us in, uh, the late 1860s, uh, pretty much coinciding with the invention

00:07:50.240 of the safety razor. So you see a brand new product come out, the safety razor. It's getting a lot of

00:07:55.780 momentum. One of the marketing speaks that I would imagine they use is the term clean shave. So it's

00:08:02.140 totally like a propaganda from, from a razor company like years ago to tout how a shave is going to be

00:08:08.940 hygienically cleaner than, than not shaving. And, uh, you'll see that that word just kind of took,

00:08:15.680 took, uh, hold within society, but that word was totally fabricated by people. And we only use it

00:08:23.460 because it's just been in our vernacular for so long, but as a, as an individual and as a leader

00:08:29.860 of a company, you know, I make it in my mission to simply change that word from, you know, uh, pro,

00:08:36.180 um, pro beardless to, uh, to, uh, pro beard or, or actually I'm not even trying to go pro beard.

00:08:45.300 I'm trying to just have a neutral term where it's just completely shaven. It's an accurate term. 1.00

00:08:50.760 So, uh, I think beardless is the pro pro beard term. 0.83

00:08:55.060 Well, and I liked what you said in that debate because you talked about the fact that a beard's

00:08:59.080 not necessarily for everyone. So you're not out there to convert the world and say that every man

00:09:02.880 has to wear a beard or should wear a beard, but you're saying, Hey, there's validity in,

00:09:06.320 in having facial hair, right? Yeah. You know, it's, it's people, if they want to choose to wear a

00:09:12.460 beard, they should be able to do it without the, the pressures from society or, or like just the,

00:09:18.620 the traditional, um, negative stereotypes that are perceived with a lot of individuals when,

00:09:24.080 when, uh, they see a guy with a beard.

00:09:26.820 So let's talk about stereotypes and propaganda because right now there's this article that's

00:09:33.440 gone viral, right? About beards are, are full of poop or whatever, whatever it is. And I've read

00:09:39.380 through that article and it's actually kind of funny to read through because it's not really

00:09:42.320 that valid, but tell me a little bit about that article. And then also the rebuttal. I'm not sure

00:09:46.380 if you wrote the rebuttal to that or if it was somebody else, but I read that on your Facebook page,

00:09:50.260 which was pretty interesting. 0.91

00:09:51.140 The whole saying is there's this article out there that there's poop in beards. Uh, and it's

00:09:56.700 not actually poop in beards. It's the bacteria that's found in feces is also found in, in some

00:10:02.320 people's beards. Um, but that kind of argument could be said, like there's a water found in poop

00:10:07.920 and also found in beards. You know, it's, it's kind of like a, um, just a slanderous type of,

00:10:14.900 of article. And, and what was found is, you know, this type of bacteria is, is around

00:10:20.780 everything. And it's, uh, not only in your beards, but it's also on your skin and it's

00:10:25.120 on your hair. And it's, if you're going to the bathroom and, and, you know, using the

00:10:29.400 bathroom, then not washing your hands, then that's going to be the biggest issue. Um, so

00:10:34.260 it's for people really who don't wash their hands, who are, uh, who are spreading, you 0.59

00:10:39.080 know, bacteria around and there's, you know, billions of different kinds of bacteria on

00:10:44.560 you at any given moment. Uh, many of which, which are also, you know, healthy and, and

00:10:50.020 help fight off, uh, against bad things. So, I mean, there's, there's a lot of rebuttals

00:10:54.780 in there and the science just doesn't add up in terms of beards being unclean or unhealthy

00:10:59.940 as it's no, no worse or better than, than not having a beard.

00:11:04.620 Right. Yeah. Of course. If you're not washing your hands, you're not hygienic. Of course,

00:11:07.980 there's poop all over your body, let alone your beard. Right. 0.95

00:11:10.680 Absolutely. And what's the, I mean, what's the, what's funny. You talk about kind of like,

00:11:16.140 uh, the mindset and propaganda out there. And, uh, um, we just had an article posted on Yahoo,

00:11:22.440 which I think is kind of the last, um, maybe a really true representation of like your average

00:11:29.700 individual out there. You know, it's not very, you know, specific is very broad type of people.

00:11:35.480 And there's, you know, the amount of like hateful comments that we received on the post about

00:11:40.680 beards, how people think was gross or dirty or, you know, unclean or, you know, not stylish. Like

00:11:47.280 it's still very pervasive in our society for these people to have these negative stereotypes of guys

00:11:52.880 with beards. So why is that? Why? Cause I've obviously there's been a resurgence of, of,

00:11:58.140 of it being acceptable to have a beard, but why, why some of that negativity? What's up with that?

00:12:03.160 You know, I think it's, uh, some of it is just based on like simple things that people aren't

00:12:08.420 aware of like the term clean shaven and thinking and that, well, if he's clean shaven, if he has a

00:12:13.500 beard, he must be dirty. Uh, and then a lot of it will be, you know, just like the stereotypical

00:12:18.340 thing that's played off in society where, you know, things in movies where all the bad guys have

00:12:24.000 beards and then all the heroes are beardless. And I think, you know, one example of how that's

00:12:29.380 shifting is if you watch like the Lord of the Rings, where all the, the, the leading roles and a lot of

00:12:35.620 the, the heroes in the story have facial hair, whereas the negative people like all the orcs

00:12:41.380 and, um, uh, Sauron and, and all the, the enemies are actually beardless or completely shaven. So

00:12:48.300 there's like a shift where this perception is if you have a beard, then, then you're the hero now,

00:12:53.780 uh, which I think is, uh, kind of interesting as well. Well, the other thing that you see a lot

00:12:59.140 is that, and this might be in movies or even just ordinary life is, is, you know, somebody who's

00:13:04.580 homeless, for example, might, might be more prone to have a beard, right? Right. Absolutely. So,

00:13:09.760 I mean, there's, there's been these negative stereotypes that have existed, uh, and some

00:13:14.520 of them are based on, uh, you know, uh, uh, like stereotypes, stereotypes come from factual

00:13:21.340 events. Now they don't define everyone. Uh, but there's definitely been a lot of, uh, negative,

00:13:26.880 uh, perception for, for beardsmen. Uh, but the majority of people who wear a beard are,

00:13:32.320 you know, loving, caring members of the community and, and, uh, society and of their family. Um,

00:13:39.700 so it's, you can no longer define an individual based on their beard, you know, like you have

00:13:45.980 to go deeper than that to see who they really are. So let's talk about the opposite of this

00:13:51.080 because we just got done talking about why people may have a negative stereotype. Why do

00:13:56.060 you think beards have become so popular as of late? Is there something culturally? Is there,

00:14:01.920 what is it that, that makes beards so popular now? Obviously there's probably certain trendsetters

00:14:07.120 and people see that and they want to, want to emulate that. What do you think that is?

00:14:10.780 You know, the, the, the shameless self-promotion, I would say it's a hundred percent because of

00:14:15.160 beard brand, you know? Absolutely. I mean, that goes without saying, I'm just talking about,

00:14:19.900 about above and beyond that because we all know that. Yeah. I'm kidding. Of course. Uh, but I really

00:14:25.540 think what, um, what I would attribute it to is the shift in culture America to value people as

00:14:33.580 individuals more than seeing them as simple cogs in the machine. So what happened is over the past

00:14:39.740 hundred years, you'd have these corporations that would look as individuals as, um, cogs. So they

00:14:46.340 would hire them, they would train them up. They would have that certain look, you know, it was like

00:14:50.200 the whole IBM big blue, you'd wear your suit, your white shirt, you had the dress code. They train

00:14:55.520 you up, they put you in this spot, you look a piece and then you just go on your way doing exactly

00:15:00.280 what they tell you. But now like, uh, the corporate environment shifted where it's all about execution

00:15:06.540 and being able to solve problems and reacting quickly. So what they're valuing are people who

00:15:10.960 are like entrepreneurial, who can solve these issues, who can react quickly, who can, you know,

00:15:15.420 function and take, uh, initiative without direct instruction. So they're looking for people who,

00:15:22.480 who really have the talents and skillsets to improve the business. And they don't really care

00:15:26.920 what you look like as long as you're getting stuff done. And now that people are free to just focus on

00:15:32.820 their talents and their merits, then they're doing what they've always wanted to do, which is to have

00:15:36.880 facial hair. And so why does a guy, I can, I mean, I can talk about why I've chose to have it,

00:15:41.560 but why, why do you think, are there certain, uh, reoccurring reasons that men decide to grow a

00:15:47.240 beard? You know, it's, it's really, it's, it's ingrained in our DNA. You know, it's part of who

00:15:51.680 we are. It's like saying, you know, why do you choose to grow your hair? I mean, it's, it just

00:15:56.940 comes out of your head. That's, that's who you are. If you do nothing by default, you're going to have

00:16:01.160 facial hair or you're going to have a beard. So like, I think many men are tied to this part of,

00:16:07.000 of who they are as individuals. And they're like, this is who I am. My beard is part of me. This

00:16:11.460 is, uh, how I am as an individual. And all these years I've been being someone else. I've been

00:16:19.140 hiding myself from the world by, you know, shaving off my beard. And then finally I've got the ability

00:16:25.080 to, to share with the world, you know, what I really am, you know, who I really am and what my

00:16:31.200 DNA really shows to the world, you know? Uh, so I think, you know, that's really empowering for people

00:16:36.420 is like, uh, they look into that, but I think there's, there's just a lot of emotion for

00:16:41.280 men in both growing a beard and shaving. Like it's this process of becoming a man. Like

00:16:47.820 as a boy, you can't grow a beard. Um, but once you pass through puberty and, and, uh, those hairs

00:16:54.300 change to terminal hairs, then you can start growing a beard. You've got, you know, hair in

00:16:59.860 your armpits. All that stuff is just like part of becoming a man. And I think that's just really

00:17:04.320 deeply ingrained with, with a lot of men, you know, across the world.

00:17:09.140 One of the things that I think about is like the samurai warrior where he's got that top

00:17:13.280 knot, right? That's, that's one thing. I also think about like Samson was power comes from,

00:17:17.880 from his hair. I mean, do you, do you see that at all as being a reason why, why men will want

00:17:22.660 to have a beard? Do they, do they gain some sort of power or does it make them feel different?

00:17:28.400 What are your thoughts there? Yeah, it's, uh, you know, kind of going back to earlier in the

00:17:33.020 conversation, it's about, uh, a lot of the traditional, uh, perceptions of what a man with

00:17:39.940 a beard looks like, you know, he's stronger, he's healthier. Like you can't grow a good beard

00:17:44.700 if you're malnourished and you don't have food, you know, like it's an indicator, uh, to your

00:17:50.400 strength. And it's also an indicator to like your, your sexual, uh, viability with, uh, women. So

00:17:56.340 it's a section, secondary sexual organ, um, that women don't have. So it's equivalent 1.00

00:18:01.920 to, to boobs. Uh, the beard is equivalent to boobs for women. Uh, so, uh, there's, there's 0.99

00:18:09.540 that aspect of it, which is just, you know, ingrained in, in humanity and humankind and being

00:18:15.300 a, uh, a homo sapien and, and, you know, kind of like the evolutionary process when you look

00:18:21.940 at like the amount of animals within the animal kingdom that can grow facial hair or grow beards,

00:18:28.640 there's literally like 10 or 20 of them of the hundreds of thousands or millions of animals

00:18:34.060 that are out there. So it's something that's very unique. I mean, even other chimpanzees,

00:18:39.960 they, they don't have the same kind of, uh, indicators that men have. So it's really unique

00:18:45.140 to humanity. And it's something that, you know, for us to, to, to shave it off, to hide it is,

00:18:50.420 is almost like denying like our, who we are as, as humans. I've also heard that different levels

00:18:57.700 of testosterone inside of your body is, is part of the reason or part of what creates a full,

00:19:02.900 healthy beard. Is that right? Yeah, there's, uh, ironically the, the thing that drives a really

00:19:10.160 full, thick, dense beard is also the, the thing that makes guys go bald, uh, pretty early. So it's

00:19:16.920 almost like a, a, a main twist of fate to be able to grow an awesome beard. There's a high percentage

00:19:22.300 of chance that you're going to be losing your hair. Um, so it's just kind of like everyone's

00:19:27.520 genetics, uh, are, are slightly different. Uh, but there is a big testosterone factor and, and being

00:19:34.440 able to boost your testosterone naturally will, uh, maximize your beard growing potential that's

00:19:41.180 already harnessed within your own DNA. So you can't change your genetics of what you're going to grow,

00:19:46.740 but you can maximize your genetics. So let's talk a little bit about beard brand because you brought

00:19:52.100 it up and obviously I want to talk about, tell me what beard brand is all about, what you guys are

00:19:55.600 doing, what help, what services, what products are you offering? So beard brand is a men's grooming

00:20:01.260 company that focuses on beard care products. So our, our top seller is a beard oil, which is a leave-in

00:20:07.680 conditioner. It's going to help soften up the beard, uh, minimize or eliminate beard flakes or dry skin

00:20:13.340 under the beard. And then it just has like this beautiful smell to it. So it's just like an

00:20:17.600 enjoyable experience. It's nothing that's, that's necessary or it's, uh, required to grow a beard.

00:20:24.200 It's just something that makes it much better. Um, so we, uh, we focus on the urban beardsmen, which is

00:20:31.760 the guys who don't fit the traditional stereotypes of beardsmen, whether they're the, the bikers or the

00:20:36.960 outdoorsmen or the hippies or the homeless guys, like they just don't identify with that. Um,

00:20:42.800 so they're going to be guys who are similar to you. They're financial advisors, they're graphic

00:20:47.300 artists, they're, they're quote unquote urban. So they're in an urban environment. You know,

00:20:51.540 they have professional jobs and they care about their style and they care about taking care of

00:20:56.000 themselves and grooming and looking good and, and presenting the themselves to the world and the

00:21:02.260 best possible line. So, um, that's really our audience. And we've developed like this really

00:21:07.220 great bond with them because no one, uh, before beard brand was, was talking about how you could

00:21:12.880 have a beard and also be, you know, like a, a polished part of society. So it's, uh, it's been a

00:21:20.040 lot of, uh, fun connecting with our audience. And so obviously you've got a lot of passion around what

00:21:25.280 you're doing and you're able to make this transition. One of the things that you had a pretty

00:21:28.660 cool experience is you were on shark tank to talk about beard brand, right? Oh yeah. I mean,

00:21:32.880 anytime you can share your passion with millions of people, that's an incredible experience. I mean,

00:21:38.000 I love like even doing like, uh, I don't know your viewership, maybe it's just a million people,

00:21:43.360 but, uh, it's, uh, I just love sharing our story, whether it's, you know, an audience of one person

00:21:50.060 or if it's an audience of millions of people. So how, how was that experience? What were some of the

00:21:55.000 things that you walked away with and said, Oh, that was a good experience. Or was there some

00:21:57.900 things that, that, uh, you know, what was your overall experience of the shark tank?

00:22:01.800 Well, I mean, I, I loved it. You know, I, I love being on the big stage and, and having that

00:22:06.560 opportunity to, to meet with such high profile people. Like it truly is a once in a lifetime

00:22:12.780 opportunity, uh, or maybe twice in a lifetime if I can get lucky again. Uh, you're going to try it

00:22:18.540 again? Uh, no, no near term plans for that. But I mean, I think, uh, you know, just being able to,

00:22:25.100 uh, to share the passions. Uh, but it is like a lot of what you see on the shark tank is

00:22:30.560 accurate. It's a very intense situation. You get very nervous, uh, not just because of the people

00:22:36.800 you're pitching to, but because the fact that this pitch is being recorded and shown to millions

00:22:41.780 of people, it's, it's very intense. And, um, you know, a little bit of, I wish we were to, uh,

00:22:48.160 have gotten an offer or to gotten a deal. I think that would have been great. Um, it would have

00:22:52.380 probably silenced a few haters. Um, but, uh, for the most part, uh, it's been a great boost to our

00:22:59.020 business and great boost to, to spreading awareness for what we're working on. I agree

00:23:04.840 that when, anytime you put yourself out there, whether it's through this podcast or on, you know,

00:23:10.240 you're what you're doing or shark tank, whatever it may be, you're going to have some people push

00:23:15.440 back. And really what you're doing is you're opening yourself up to not only exposure and positive

00:23:19.720 exposure for the brand, but you're also opening yourself up to criticism and negativity as well.

00:23:24.860 Have you, and it sounds like you've got some, some haters out there. What's some of the backlash

00:23:29.040 or what's some of the things that you keep hearing as to why maybe what you're doing is not valid or

00:23:34.580 whatever it may be? Oh, you know, it's, it's a lot of the same stuff that I've been dealing with

00:23:39.120 since we started. Like, you know, growing beards is a fad, which I think is a little silly because

00:23:44.820 like the default is to have a beard. So the, the, the unnatural thing to do is to shave off the beard.

00:23:50.960 So, uh, shaving in my mind has been a hundred year fad, but, uh, you know, so, I mean, I think

00:23:56.260 it's, people don't understand, uh, what this movement is about and, and they don't see the

00:24:02.580 sustainability in it. Um, that's what most of the haters say. And then the other haters are,

00:24:08.240 they just don't like beards and they just, they, they don't find them appealing. They find them

00:24:12.620 gross. They, you know, they, or they're, or they do grow beards. They like beards, but they,

00:24:17.640 they view grooming as something that's very feminine or, you know, like you can't be a man

00:24:24.300 and take care of your beard. You know, it's like, you can't be a man and use soap and wash yourself

00:24:28.820 in the shower. Like that's, that's, that's not manly at all, you know? And it's like,

00:24:33.940 these people don't always think out like the hypocrisy of their statements. Like I'm sure

00:24:39.460 you're using deodorant. I'm sure you're using like aftershave or a cologne, or I'm sure you're

00:24:44.280 using hair product, like all these things that these guys are using. And then all of a sudden

00:24:48.380 you have a brand new product that they've never heard of before. And they're like, no, no, no,

00:24:52.720 I'm not doing that. It's, you know, grooming. And so, so, well, we've got to wash the poop out of

00:24:59.700 our beard though, right? I mean, yeah, exactly. You know? So, and then, uh, I guess, uh, the other

00:25:06.760 thing is like, we do premium products as well. Like, so a lot of guys aren't used to, uh, shopping

00:25:12.760 for or purchasing a higher end premium product and, and they just, they're a little, uh, overwhelmed by,

00:25:19.500 you know, the costs involved of, of making that type of product. So, uh, there's those hurdles as

00:25:25.020 well. I know I've got beard oil and I, one of the beard oils I use has like a, like a

00:25:29.580 pine scent to it. And I really like it. Like it makes my beard feel soft. It feels good on my

00:25:35.460 skin. And then my wife, which is another benefit, my wife really likes it as well. So I'm, I'm all

00:25:40.280 for beard oils. Yeah. I mean like beard oil is like, it's one of those products that's like

00:25:44.440 legitimately awesome. Like you use it and you're instantly going to see and feel a different

00:25:51.340 beard. And a guy strokes his beard on average every day, 720 times. That's probably true. That's

00:25:58.760 probably me too. So you're touching your beard like that frequently. And to be able to feel the

00:26:02.600 beard being that much softer, uh, and to smell nice and to be around people who notice it and

00:26:08.540 they notice how healthy it looks. I mean, it's like, it's a no brainer to, to buy a product like

00:26:13.760 this cause it is so much, uh, beneficial to, to a lot of people out there. So is urban beardsmen a

00:26:20.580 spinoff? Is that your magazine? Help me understand the relationship with urban beardsmen and beard

00:26:24.640 brand. You know, uh, we started beard brand as a content website. So for the first year of beard

00:26:30.540 brands existence, it was a blog and it was a YouTube channel and a Tumblr page. And then it was

00:26:36.640 after a year that we saw an opportunity to, to sell some products to help, uh, with our cause to change

00:26:43.480 away, uh, society views beardsmen. And it's always been a big part of our, our growth is, is just the

00:26:49.780 content aspect of it. Um, so we've, we sat back and forth on, you know, do we make this as a blog

00:26:57.200 that beard brand.com or do we spin it off on urban beardsmen? And it was a hard decision, but we,

00:27:03.480 we wanted to talk more about the lifestyle of being an urban beardsman than, uh, you know,

00:27:10.460 just talk about kind of like grooming products. So, uh, that was the reason we went to urbanbeardsmen.com

00:27:16.440 so we could talk about more about, uh, what it means to be an urban beardsman than just simply

00:27:21.180 the grooming process. I want to go back to the debate that we had or that we listened to at

00:27:28.200 StyleCon. And you said that, and I really appreciated you saying this, that a beard isn't

00:27:33.080 for everybody. When do you see it making sense that a guy should grow a beard and when maybe

00:27:37.540 should he not grow a beard? When do you see that fitting in? You know, I'm not going to be the person

00:27:41.940 to, to tell anyone whether or not they, they should or shouldn't grow a beard. Really the,

00:27:46.940 the person that you should listen to is the guy looking back at you in the mirror and coming

00:27:51.860 down to what you feel is, is the appropriate thing to do for your situation and, and how it affects your

00:27:58.040 confidence or, or your self image. You know, ultimately you want to, to become a more confident

00:28:03.380 person and whatever, um, you do, uh, to help with that is going to be beneficial. Um, the, the thing

00:28:12.660 that I really encourage people to do is, is to, to garner feedback, not, not just from like those who

00:28:20.220 are close to you or those who, you know, but also those who like interact with, with facial hair a lot,

00:28:25.960 you know, because you want to have both like that negative or that constructive criticism,

00:28:30.080 as well as that positive criticism to get like a very full picture of, of how it looks. Cause we

00:28:36.240 can't always like, uh, determine how we look to the world without, you know, getting that feedback.

00:28:41.660 But I mean, really it's just do what you want to do, right? Like that's what it comes down to.

00:28:45.680 Whatever you want to do in life, you do, it's your life and only you spend a hundred percent of your

00:28:50.540 time with you. So, uh, don't let others dictate, um, and, uh, you know, like love what you got.

00:28:57.680 How do you get that feedback? Because if you just went up to somebody and you said, Hey,

00:29:01.600 what do you think of my beard? You know, the natural response might just be, yeah,

00:29:05.460 it looks nice. When really I've only had one person and she came right out and she's a close

00:29:09.220 friend. She's like, what is with that beard? I don't like your beard. But for the most part,

00:29:13.880 I was like, yeah, yeah. I don't know what they say after the fact, but they say to your face,

00:29:17.020 they love the beard, right? Yeah. And I think, uh, you know, uh, well, that's the thing with

00:29:22.060 growing a beard is most people are like genuinely positive for it. Like beards are a net positive,

00:29:27.520 look for people. Uh, whether it's scruff five o'clock shadow to a couple of week beard, like

00:29:32.900 you are going to be perceived as more attractive than not having a beard. Um, but there are some

00:29:38.900 guys out there who like, just, they, they literally, they cannot grow a beard. Like it

00:29:43.960 does not come out of their face or it comes out very sparse. Um, there are communities out there

00:29:49.400 like the beardboard.com where you can kind of upload photographs and show progress photos of how

00:29:55.400 your beard's coming in and kind of give you like an honest feedback on, you know, what are going to

00:30:00.860 be the best strategies for grooming it? Or, you know, maybe you should keep your sideburns or just

00:30:04.940 keep your mustache or shave off your mustache or, you know, just do the chops. Like just kind of like

00:30:10.580 a good insight from people who like, just, they see beards and they take care of beards like all the

00:30:16.780 time. That's cool. I like that. I'm gonna have to jump on there and I'm gonna, and, and check that

00:30:21.040 out and see if there's any advice for me. So what are some of the other mistakes that guys are

00:30:24.280 making when they consider growing a beard? You said if it grows in patchy or just kind of thin,

00:30:28.540 is there some other mistakes that we should be aware of? Yeah. I mean, if you're thinking about

00:30:31.640 growing a beard out, really you want to give it like one or two months of good growth without

00:30:35.260 trimming or shaving to see what you, you have to work with. Cause not all beards grow, or not all

00:30:41.260 beard hairs grow at the same speed. And what may seem like a patchy area is actually just a slow

00:30:47.400 growing, uh, area. So give it a little bit of time before you shape it up or trim it. And then, uh,

00:30:53.540 probably like my biggest tip is when you do actually have a beard, let's say you've

00:30:57.680 been growing it for, uh, one month. I always recommend that you give it that amount of time

00:31:03.860 in days, uh, before you shave it off. So if you've been growing for a month, give it a

00:31:08.700 day before you shave it off. If you've been growing for six months, give it six days to

00:31:12.760 think about it before you shave it off. And then that way, you know, you've come to the

00:31:15.980 right decision on what you think is right for you. So there's a lot of emotions that a guy

00:31:20.280 will go through when growing out their facial hair and a lot of self doubt, um, that those

00:31:25.220 emotions kind of go in, uh, ebbs and flows. And you don't want to trim off like seven months

00:31:30.140 of work and energy just because you're on a downflow.

00:31:33.880 Right. I've got a friend who grew his beard for two years and he shaved it off. And every day

00:31:39.780 since he shaved it off, he's like, Oh, I shouldn't have shaved. And he has such regret for shaving

00:31:44.520 after two years of growing this thing out.

00:31:46.420 Yeah. So, I mean, if, if he just, you know, thought about it for, you know, uh, two weeks

00:31:50.960 and like was really committed to it. And I don't know his case, if he just kind of like

00:31:54.920 woke up and was tired of it one day and just did that or, you know, but there's a lot of

00:31:59.700 process and you can trim the beard. Like once it grows long, if you haven't trimmed it for

00:32:03.400 a while, you can head into the barber and have it trimmed up and really kind of give it a

00:32:07.500 new look and new life without completely taking it off.

00:32:11.160 Right. You know, that's funny. I never even thought about that, but that's, yeah, that's a good

00:32:14.320 idea. I never even thought about that. I want to talk a little bit about the practicality

00:32:19.140 and functionality of a beard besides just the look and the feel and the level of confidence.

00:32:23.660 What are some of the things that, that are practical about beards or functional about

00:32:28.340 beards that we should be aware of?

00:32:29.780 Well, you know, a beard is going to help with, uh, minimizing your risk for sun cancer. It's

00:32:33.820 a great way to block the UV rays, uh, on a daily basis. So guys who grow beards are actually

00:32:39.740 going to have healthier looking skin, um, as they age. Uh, in addition to that, uh, during

00:32:46.360 the winter time, it's going to help keep you warm. So you have a longer beard that covers

00:32:49.620 your neck, your neck, uh, um, uh, you'll see it when they, with football players, they're

00:32:55.480 always blowing like cool, cool air on someone's neck because the veins, uh, go right to the surface

00:33:02.120 of the skin. And it's a great way to kind of, uh, monitor it. So in the winter, you're able

00:33:06.900 to, to keep that heat in with the beard. And then in the summer, you're able to block

00:33:10.740 away like the sun's rays and shade the neck and keep yourself a little bit cooler with

00:33:15.720 a beard as well. So there's, uh, the physical benefits of it as well. And then, uh, what

00:33:21.740 else, you know, it's a barrier for, uh, like pollen and dust and just a lot of different

00:33:26.980 things that, that get into your body.

00:33:29.200 So what are some other tips? I mean, obviously beard oils are big. You can go to the, uh, and

00:33:33.600 groom your beard. What are some other tips to, to keep your beard looking healthy and

00:33:38.040 full and good?

00:33:39.080 Yeah. My, my, uh, kind of big pillars of advice is, uh, a regular trimming, like every

00:33:47.000 few months will help keep it in line and having a beard that's well groomed in terms of like

00:33:52.380 a trim is going to help it look very presentable and look very full. Uh, so that's a good option

00:33:59.160 for that. Uh, in terms of washing, there's, uh, these didn't exist five years ago, but

00:34:04.640 now on the market, there's a lot of beard washes and beard softeners, and that's going

00:34:08.360 to be like a, a hair shampoo and a hair conditioner, and they're going to help, um, wash your, you

00:34:14.580 know, it's, it's designed for the softness of your face rather than the, the scalp, which

00:34:19.840 is a little more tolerant of harsher washes. So it's going to be a more gentle wash. And

00:34:25.040 it's also designed for like the curly hairs that come out in the beard. So there's beard

00:34:28.640 washes, beard softeners that you can use to, uh, to make sure that your beard's clean

00:34:33.360 and then like to take care of your mustache. There's mustache waxes to help keep everything

00:34:37.140 in line. Or if you want to do a, a handlebar. Um, and then from there, let's see what else

00:34:43.000 a comb and brush. Uh, you know, those are kind of my go-tos as well. I just, I can't go too

00:34:48.660 far away without one of my, my combs. I want to back up a little bit because one of the things

00:34:54.600 that a lot of the guys give me is feedback. They listen to this podcast and they're on the

00:34:58.220 YouTube channel and blog is they feel like they're stuck. And I think you had a little

00:35:05.060 bit of that too. When you talk about the financial planning practice, of course, you know, I've,

00:35:09.300 I've explored another area by starting this project. What are some of the things that you

00:35:13.860 did when you decided, Hey, I'm going to leave financial planning and I'm going to chase

00:35:17.840 and pursue this, this passion. What are some of the steps that you took to get you to where

00:35:22.240 you are today? Yeah. I mean, that's a, that's a really good question. Um, and not one that I

00:35:28.260 don't think I've ever been asked before. It's so my, my career was pretty much shit. Like, um, 0.99

00:35:35.220 from 2008 or nine, uh, until really beard brand started taking off in, in 2013. And, um, you know,

00:35:45.080 it was pretty dark. Like in, in my wife and I were also struggling with, with infertility. So it's

00:35:50.180 like, uh, I was really not getting a lot of traction with my career, my personal life.

00:35:56.120 And, uh, the beard for me was, was kind of one of those outlets of, of like, just, uh,

00:36:02.180 bringing new life into me and experiencing new things and having a little bit of positivity and

00:36:06.940 being able to like, uh, grow and go through these motions and, and this, uh, journey toward, uh,

00:36:12.520 what's called a year, which has grown a beard for a year. Um, so it's, it's for a lot of guys,

00:36:18.180 uh, it's a way to, to kind of get re renewed. One of, uh, I talked with, uh, one of our, our fans

00:36:24.380 and, uh, he was going through a divorce, uh, or just had gotten divorced with his wife and,

00:36:32.460 and he used the beard as a way to kind of start afresh and start new. And it was really like a good

00:36:38.940 experience for him to kind of get that re rebirth and find himself as a man and just kind of like

00:36:46.400 bring positivity into his life. Uh, so a lot of guys really do that is, uh, you know, use that as

00:36:52.960 a transition to, to become a new person. So was this a, was this a, a passion project,

00:36:58.980 just something you enjoyed doing or from the minute that you started beer brand as, as the blog,

00:37:03.400 is it something you said, I'm going to monetize this and I'm going to make this work and this is

00:37:07.440 going to be my career? No, it was, uh, so I'm an entrepreneur at heart, so I always have ideas

00:37:13.200 for businesses and I have a, I have a lot of good ideas that have failed. Um, so I know execution

00:37:18.580 is, is really the key. And, uh, when I, I got the idea for beard brand, for the blog, for the urban

00:37:25.400 beardsman, um, I always had this vision of, of it supporting the lifestyle, you know, of being this

00:37:32.180 company. Um, but I didn't have any of the, the monetization keys in place for, for a whole year.

00:37:40.200 And it was really like what I was searching for, uh, wasn't necessarily the ideas. It was the team,

00:37:46.120 um, the co-founders to, to take it to the next level. And it was through, um, uh, partnering up

00:37:53.440 with Jeremy and Lindsay that really made beard brand become what it is today. I think it's

00:37:58.580 incredible. I think that the, the, where you've taken it and how unique it is and how unique you

00:38:03.080 are and it stands out. I think it's awesome. I love it. That's why I'm so excited to have you on the

00:38:06.640 show. Uh, let's see. I was going to ask you one of the things that you mentioned at style con is you

00:38:12.060 said that sometimes guys feel like, I don't know how you word that worded this, but they almost don't

00:38:17.900 have permission, I guess you'd say to grow a beard. And you offered some suggestions on some reasons

00:38:25.320 why you may come up with an excuse or something to say if a guy wants to start or wants to try

00:38:31.640 growing a beard. You know, if you feel those, those negative stereotypes, uh, uh, at work,

00:38:38.580 you know, you don't think work will allow you to grow facial hair or if your spouse isn't exactly

00:38:43.420 the idea or whatever it may be. I'm a big fan of growing in November during no shave November or

00:38:51.100 Movember and using that growth as a way to raise money for charity. And it also gives you an excuse to,

00:38:58.100 you know, grow your beard out, uh, without like the hassle from, from others and kind of get a good

00:39:05.760 feel for, for what it's going to look like. So, um, when you grow in no shave November, like the whole

00:39:11.240 point is like, it's a change in your look and image to be able to spark that conversation and, uh,

00:39:17.460 really start generating, uh, money for a wonderful cause. And, uh, you know, like people can't hate on you

00:39:24.500 for that. If you say, Hey man, I'm growing my beard for a great cause, you know, I'm not going to

00:39:29.180 shave like, and then they're like, Oh, okay. Well, yeah, you're right. You know? And I think

00:39:35.240 Movember is, is awareness for testicular cancer. I believe, is there some others that are out there

00:39:40.780 too, that you know of? Yeah. Uh, well, Movember is, uh, I actually, I think it's, uh, like just men's 0.96

00:39:45.880 health in general. I know they do, uh, like prostate cancer as well. And, um, so there's a

00:39:51.580 lot of, uh, local kind of clubs and communities that put on events, uh, and, uh, and no shave

00:39:58.220 November is, you know, kind of like, it's not an official organization. Um, but if you go to your

00:40:04.460 local club, they'll usually participate that and, uh, put together some teams for it. So, um,

00:40:10.560 really, really it's more of a local kind of grassroots thing. So are there some, some

00:40:16.420 styles that you say, Hey, try, try these styles. Here's a couple of few popular styles, whether

00:40:21.380 it's full beard or, or just the mustache handlebar goatee, or do you have some sort of a guide

00:40:26.240 that guys can check out? Yeah. You know, uh, Antonio, uh, with real men, real style, he put a,

00:40:32.640 put together this cool little, uh, um, infographic of the different beards out there. You really can't

00:40:39.280 go wrong. Uh, assuming your beard comes in pretty good, then you can't go wrong with a

00:40:43.700 full beard, you know, and a full beard can be anywhere from like the five o'clock shadow

00:40:49.000 or the stubble all the way up to what we call a terminal beard is, is the longest it's ever

00:40:53.920 going to grow. So the full beard is like for forever, like a go to look. And then, uh, within

00:41:00.380 there, you know, my personal preference, I don't think, uh, um, goatees are as popular as

00:41:06.280 they once were. Um, um, but you know, like there's just going to be like kind of styles

00:41:11.380 that come and go. I think a mustache is, is really an underplayed look that, uh, uh, a

00:41:16.340 lot of people can pull off, you know, Brett from the art of manliness, he really pulls

00:41:19.760 off the mustache and he definitely doesn't do it for ironic reasons. And, you know, there's

00:41:26.100 the whole like connotation that if you grow a mustache, then you're a hipster. And that's

00:41:31.020 not true at all. Like you've just got to find your own kind of your look and feel and,

00:41:35.400 and, and just test it out. But it could be, you know, sideburns, uh, mustache, chops,

00:41:41.300 whaler, like there's a bunch of different styles. Really. It comes down to what you

00:41:45.180 have been and just playing around and testing it and seeing what you like.

00:41:49.260 So I'll make a, I'll make sure to put a link in the show notes on what Antonio put

00:41:53.540 together because I have seen that. And that is a pretty good guide. I didn't know that

00:41:56.720 there was what you said, you know, the terminal beard. I didn't know that there was a stage

00:42:00.060 where that would actually just stop and would, it would just shut off. I wasn't aware of

00:42:03.360 that. Yeah. Well, so the hair doesn't technically stop, but what happens is that

00:42:07.320 the hair will get brittle and they'll break off and then, uh, or you'll get like split

00:42:13.180 ends and then, uh, or you'll experience shedding. So like just your head, your head

00:42:18.380 hair does the same thing, but the beard will just eventually fall out after growing for

00:42:23.100 five years or something. So you just can't grow any further than that.

00:42:27.020 Right. Well, Eric, this has been a great conversation. How do men connect with you and

00:42:32.600 with Beardbrand and Urban Beardsmen if they want to learn more, if they want to purchase

00:42:36.480 some products from, from you and what you have to offer?

00:42:38.860 So, uh, if you Google my name, Eric Banholz, you're pretty much going to find me, uh, and

00:42:43.420 find all my, my platforms out there. I'm pretty active on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram.

00:42:48.660 And then with Beardbrand, it's beardbrand.com and urbanbeardsmen.com as a website. So hopefully

00:42:54.880 all the links are on the website and, uh, you guys can find us there, but just Google

00:42:59.880 us and, uh, we'll turn up.

00:43:02.180 Easy. Yeah. Easy. We'll make sure again, to have all those links available on the show

00:43:06.280 notes page so you can check that out. And, uh, Eric, it's been a ton of fun. I'm glad

00:43:10.100 you're on the show today.

00:43:11.100 Pleasure is all mine and thanks for having me and, uh, uh, happy to be part of it.

00:43:16.560 Man, what an awesome conversation about the ins and outs of Beards. I bet that when you

00:43:21.240 saw the title of this podcast, you did not know that we were going to go in.

00:43:25.120 As, as depth as we did, it just goes to show that Eric is a man who is passionate

00:43:30.420 and he knows his beards. Again, we mentioned quite a few links today. If you need to take

00:43:35.760 a look at those, you can head to order a man.com slash zero one zero, where you will find all

00:43:41.400 the links, the resources and the notes for this show. Now, next week, I've got an interview

00:43:46.040 lined up with a man who was going to talk with us all about how to find and work with a mentor.

00:43:51.620 So important for us as men to find people who are already doing the things that we want

00:43:55.900 to be doing and, and work with those, those gentlemen. So make sure you don't miss that

00:44:01.320 next week by subscribing to the show, head over to order of man.com slash iTunes. While you're

00:44:07.000 there, please, please leave us a rating and review. It really helps get the visibility

00:44:10.880 out for the podcast. And you can do that again at order of man.com slash iTunes. Thanks

00:44:16.400 again, man, for being here today. And I will look forward to seeing you next week.

00:44:21.180 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your

00:44:25.440 life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of

00:44:30.380 man.com.

Order of Man - May 26, 2015

OoM 010： How to Grow a Beard Like a Boss with Eric Bandholz

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