Order of Man - OoM 017： From Passion Project to New Career with Jake Nackos

00:00:00.000 I have never met a man who did not have his next million dollar idea.

00:00:03.620 Ideas are a dime a dozen.

00:00:05.300 The missing factor then is not what should I do, but how do I do it?

00:00:09.960 What seems to be missing in the majority of scenarios I see is the action necessary.

00:00:14.500 So my guest today, Jake Nackes with Arvo, tells us how to find your next passion project,

00:00:19.440 how to start, and more importantly, how you can finally turn that next business idea into

00:00:24.520 a career reality.

00:00:26.500 You're a man of action.

00:00:27.740 You live life to the fullest.

00:00:29.560 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:32.500 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:36.940 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:42.000 This is your life.

00:00:43.140 This is who you are.

00:00:44.540 This is who you will become.

00:00:46.200 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:52.480 Guys, welcome back to The Order of Man.

00:00:54.200 My name is Ryan Michler, and I'm glad that you're listening in today.

00:00:56.780 Whether you're here for the first time or if you've listened to all 17 shows, welcome.

00:01:02.180 Now, we've got a great one lined up for you today.

00:01:04.160 Jake Nackes, the founder of an extremely successful watch company, is going to share with us how

00:01:09.080 we turn our side project into a career reality.

00:01:13.160 Now, before we get into that episode, I do want to humbly ask that you leave us a rating

00:01:17.360 and review for the show.

00:01:18.840 So, Ted Jitsu left a rating last week, and it said,

00:01:21.880 Ryan is an excellent host who is leading on the front line to support men in their journey

00:01:26.220 to become the best versions of themselves.

00:01:28.360 I love the fact that he focuses on skill development as opposed to rah-rah, happy, clappy BS.

00:01:33.740 I'm a big fan of his videos as well.

00:01:35.360 This should be on your short list of podcasts.

00:01:37.760 So, thanks a ton, Ted Jitsu.

00:01:39.440 If you've heard any value on our podcast, I would ask that you please leave us a rating

00:01:43.340 and review at orderofman.com slash iTunes.

00:01:46.600 Now, remember, as always, we've got the show notes up for this show, and they can be found

00:01:50.700 at orderofman.com slash 017.

00:01:54.140 Now, let's get to our guest.

00:01:55.820 Today, I have the pleasure of introducing Jake Nackes with Arvo.

00:01:58.920 Jake is the founder and CEO of Arvo Watches.

00:02:01.620 Arvo is a minimalist watch brand that he started as a side project in 2013 to learn about small

00:02:07.620 business and provide opportunities to give back to his community.

00:02:11.300 Now, Jake and his wife, Ashley, run Arvo full-time and have stuck to the core values of doing

00:02:17.520 good.

00:02:17.960 He loves the work and, surprisingly, the fun challenges of his Arvo baby, but he's got

00:02:23.400 his values straight as his family is his number one priority.

00:02:26.700 He's the father of a 15-month-old rascal, Leo, and the real challenge is teaching him

00:02:31.740 to grow up with strong values and goals that will help him to be successful throughout life.

00:02:41.300 Hey, Jake, there's a lot of guys listening today that are probably thinking a lot of

00:02:47.000 what you felt over the past year or two just in the conversations that we've had, and maybe

00:02:51.620 they feel a little stuck, and they're really wanting to expand their horizons, or they've

00:02:56.240 got an idea that they want to execute on.

00:02:57.780 So I'm really excited to have our conversation today about it.

00:03:00.380 Awesome.

00:03:00.800 I appreciate it.

00:03:01.420 So tell me a little bit about what it is you're doing now, and maybe just briefly about

00:03:07.760 your background and how you made the transition into what it is you're doing now.

00:03:11.440 So I've always had somewhat of a business mindset.

00:03:15.200 I knew that's what I wanted to end up in.

00:03:17.280 I was studying business management at Utah State, then transferred to University of Phoenix

00:03:24.020 where I finished up.

00:03:25.040 And when I was about to finish, I was really trying to find a little side project that I

00:03:32.180 could start with my wife, where we could learn a little bit about small business startups and

00:03:37.540 how that works.

00:03:38.760 And one thing led to another, and we came across watches.

00:03:43.480 And long story short, I found this watch I loved at a pawn shop, and I wore it for a while,

00:03:50.220 and it broke.

00:03:51.760 And when that happened, I couldn't find anything that was similar enough that I liked for a

00:03:56.060 good price point.

00:03:57.000 And so it just kind of stuck out to my wife and I that let's just try to make something

00:04:01.960 similar and just kind of snowballed from there.

00:04:04.820 That's awesome.

00:04:05.520 So I know that even just in the past two weeks, you've made a transition, like a full-time

00:04:10.580 transition into now doing this business 100%.

00:04:15.800 Is that right?

00:04:16.800 That's correct.

00:04:17.560 In fact, it was about two years where I was just doing Arvo on the side.

00:04:23.280 I was working full-time for a staffing agency.

00:04:26.380 And then during the evenings and weekends, I would do Arvo, try to catch up on everything.

00:04:31.680 And it just got to the point where I needed to sink or swim.

00:04:35.720 And it's not always easy, but I finally took that plunge of scaling down my full-time job

00:04:41.260 to a few hours a week and then focusing 100% on Arvo.

00:04:44.880 So we're going to get a ton into that and how you did that and why you did that and what

00:04:49.020 that transition looked like.

00:04:50.380 But the question I have, and we're family, you and I, so we know this, and you know my

00:04:55.100 wife.

00:04:55.480 She's your cousin.

00:04:56.600 It would be near impossible for me and her to work together.

00:05:01.060 So tell me how you guys make it work.

00:05:02.900 I mean, we definitely have, you know, different opinions at times, but our styles over the

00:05:09.720 past, you know, five or six years have somewhat melded together.

00:05:13.560 So we see eye to eye in a lot, but we try to delegate specific things to one another.

00:05:21.500 And if that item is, you know, assigned to her, I let her do it.

00:05:25.800 And I just trust that whatever she does will be great and vice versa.

00:05:30.260 Ashley also, you know, recently she's been starting a couple of projects of her own.

00:05:34.840 And so she's kind of transitioned, you know, out of the day-to-day Arvo stuff.

00:05:39.600 And I focus more on Arvo now that I'm, you know, doing this full-time and she's now doing

00:05:44.260 her own projects.

00:05:45.340 So, okay.

00:05:45.900 So you told me a little bit about why watches and how you came across that.

00:05:50.340 But I think, and we were talking about this in the pre-interview, we were talking a little

00:05:54.020 bit about how, you know, I've never run across anybody who doesn't have an idea in their head,

00:05:59.320 but very few men in my experience actually execute on those ideas.

00:06:04.360 So when you have this idea, your watch broke and you're thinking, man, I've always wanted

00:06:07.820 to be a business owner.

00:06:08.740 Let's see if we can explore this.

00:06:10.480 What was the very first action step that you took to move towards that?

00:06:15.400 Because I think sometimes it's just a matter of, okay, we've just got to take the first

00:06:18.500 step.

00:06:18.900 So what was that for you?

00:06:20.340 Well, first of all, both my mom and my dad are both entrepreneurs who started their own

00:06:25.520 businesses, you know, whether it was, they were forced to, or they, they wanted to have

00:06:30.760 more independence, whatever it was, they now both own their company.

00:06:33.820 So I think for lack of a better word, it's kind of in my blood that I wanted to do my own

00:06:37.980 thing.

00:06:38.380 What really pushed me over the edge was having friends and meeting people who, who own their 0.99

00:06:43.740 own small businesses and finding out that this is just another normal guy and he's able

00:06:48.200 to figure it out.

00:06:49.060 And that kind of gave me the, you know, that little push I needed to just say, let's just

00:06:53.540 give it a shot and see how it goes.

00:06:55.840 So how did you make your contacts?

00:06:57.520 Because I know that as, and this is order of man, order of man is a side project for

00:07:02.380 me.

00:07:02.580 And you know, I'm a financial advisor.

00:07:03.880 And so this is something I'm doing on the side as well.

00:07:06.040 How do you find the contacts that you need to find in order to make your business run

00:07:12.840 and be successful and start this side business?

00:07:14.960 What did you do?

00:07:15.900 There's a couple of different things.

00:07:17.200 First of all, I have a good friend who, who worked for the state and his job was to connect

00:07:23.960 basically businesses to other businesses who were trying to grow.

00:07:26.940 And so luckily he, you know, has a Rolodex of names that were from, you know, here locally

00:07:33.020 in Salt Lake and Utah areas that he was able to introduce me to.

00:07:36.140 So that helped.

00:07:37.480 And then also there's, you know, here in Salt Lake, a couple of different, I guess you could

00:07:42.820 call them community gathering places where it's almost like a shared space where you can

00:07:48.420 go meet other entrepreneurs who, you know, are in the same position.

00:07:52.220 It's called Impact Hub.

00:07:54.220 I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's, it's here in Salt Lake.

00:07:57.200 And through this company, I've been able to meet a bunch of different brands and company

00:08:02.000 owners.

00:08:02.420 When you started this venture, it sounds like you initially thought, Hey, this is going

00:08:07.360 to be a cool project.

00:08:09.280 We want to see if we can do it.

00:08:10.360 Let's give it a shot.

00:08:11.280 Like it didn't, from where I'm sitting right now and what hearing you say, it didn't sound

00:08:15.460 like maybe you wanted to like this to go full bore or to be where it is now.

00:08:20.360 Is it different or better or worse than you thought it would be when you started?

00:08:23.980 Well, initially, I mean, I, I started it just to learn and figure out, you know, what does

00:08:29.260 it take to start a company and go from an idea to actually putting something on somebody's

00:08:35.160 doorstep?

00:08:36.020 And I didn't know what that product was.

00:08:38.580 These type of watches weren't even our first product that we wanted to do.

00:08:41.840 It was, we actually wanted to do like a, an old Casio style calculator watch.

00:08:46.900 And, you know, after just researching it, getting quotes, talking to manufacturers, like we just,

00:08:53.140 we could not make it happen with the budget we had.

00:08:55.680 So we had to do somewhat of a one 80 and, um, change up our style a little bit.

00:09:00.300 It's just kind of evolved from there, but it's definitely bigger today than I envisioned

00:09:04.720 it at that point.

00:09:05.600 So when you say, I want to learn, we started it to learn what looking back over, you said

00:09:11.160 you've been around for a couple of years, like two years now?

00:09:13.980 Yeah, a little over two years.

00:09:15.600 So what do you feel like have been the biggest learning curves or the biggest lessons in that

00:09:20.440 past couple of years for you?

00:09:21.680 What have you learned?

00:09:22.680 Oh man, I've not only have I learned like skills for business, but I've gained passions

00:09:28.600 for things that I didn't really know about.

00:09:30.740 And one of those is photography.

00:09:34.020 And I've learned that being in an e-commerce site, like I am, photography is the world.

00:09:40.960 I see great companies who have great products.

00:09:44.440 I go on their website and it looks like, you know, they took it with an iPhone in a dim lit

00:09:49.640 room and it devalues their product.

00:09:52.560 And so one thing I've learned is appearance and how you present your product.

00:09:56.500 That's been huge for us.

00:09:57.940 And as we've been able to put out better photos on our social media, that directly impacts

00:10:03.260 our sales, which is funny, but it's completely true.

00:10:06.520 So I love that you talk about finding different avenues and different passions, because I think

00:10:11.280 sometimes as guys, we tend to believe that we have to get stuck in this career or this

00:10:15.420 one path or this one avenue.

00:10:17.880 And then I don't know what it is, but we either become afraid or nervous or whatever it may be

00:10:23.760 about trying anything new and we don't give ourselves permission to explore.

00:10:28.960 And so that's what I've noticed is I've started Order of Man and some other projects that I've

00:10:32.380 done.

00:10:32.600 And it sounds like that's what you're saying, too, is that that permission that you get,

00:10:36.280 you're giving yourself to explore allows you to try things that maybe you wouldn't have

00:10:40.700 tried normally.

00:10:41.980 Yeah, I definitely think so.

00:10:43.960 And, you know, you can't be afraid to get it wrong or fail because I've definitely done

00:10:48.880 that.

00:10:49.340 And you have some embarrassing trials here and there, but you just keep at it and you

00:10:54.240 learn and you evolve and fine tune yourself to where you can figure it out.

00:10:58.660 And I'm still doing that.

00:10:59.700 I mean, I have tons of tweaks that I like to make.

00:11:02.480 I'm just learning still.

00:11:04.080 So what happens when you have one of those failures or those setbacks for you to be able

00:11:09.220 to continue to go?

00:11:10.840 Why?

00:11:11.460 Like, what is it that's driving you or motivating you or how do you push past those failures

00:11:16.760 or those setbacks?

00:11:18.000 You know, it takes a little bit of stubbornness for sure.

00:11:20.840 You know, you want to prove to people that you are doing well and learning to make your

00:11:25.760 product better.

00:11:27.060 I think, you know, individually, people have different things to drive them.

00:11:31.240 Mine, as you mentioned, in the past two weeks, mine's gone from, you know, wanting to be

00:11:36.400 successful to prove to myself I can do it to now wanting to be successful to support my

00:11:42.360 family.

00:11:43.800 Which we can hear in the background, right?

00:11:45.480 Yeah, I apologize about that.

00:11:47.080 No worries.

00:11:47.640 No, it's awesome.

00:11:48.640 Well, it's cool because I imagine you're at home right now, right?

00:11:52.640 I am, yes.

00:11:54.040 And so that's actually pretty cool.

00:11:55.500 I think we can take a lesson from that is that, man, you're able to pursue this dream

00:12:00.920 or this passion or try something new and take some risks and then you look at yourself and

00:12:05.120 think, oh, man, I could be at home and I could jump on this interview and I can spend an hour

00:12:09.640 doing this and then I can do, you know, my other duties, but then I can also balance that

00:12:13.460 and have time for what's important, which in your case, just because we know each other,

00:12:17.380 I know that it's family.

00:12:18.180 Yeah, it is amazing and to be honest, if you could see my office right now, right next

00:12:24.060 to me is a desk set up for Ashley, my wife, and it's fun because we, like our date nights

00:12:30.820 are working on our projects and it sounds weird, but we enjoy doing that together and

00:12:36.420 bouncing ideas and, yeah, Leo runs around while we do it, but it's fun.

00:12:42.620 That's awesome.

00:12:43.900 So I don't want to put you on the spot too much here because I don't even know if I prepped

00:12:47.680 you for this question, but you talk about setbacks and failures.

00:12:50.540 Is there one that sticks out in your mind as being like, hey, at the time we thought

00:12:55.380 either this was the end of the world or at least the end of the business, are there some

00:12:59.280 failures or setbacks that really ring true or you can remember very vividly?

00:13:03.500 Yeah, the biggest one that I can think of, that's been with our actual product.

00:13:08.740 Our very first order of 500 watches, we didn't get the best materials in the wash just because

00:13:14.680 of budget and so we wanted to, you know, basically get an MVP out to our customers to see if we

00:13:21.580 even had, you know, a business that could happen.

00:13:24.700 And so we ordered 500 watches.

00:13:27.000 They looked fine and everything.

00:13:28.540 And once we started shipping them out to people, we were finding that either the batteries were

00:13:32.940 dying or the second hands just would stop ticking for like extended amounts of time and throw

00:13:39.120 the time off.

00:13:40.060 Oh, wow.

00:13:40.580 Yeah.

00:13:40.920 And so I had to probably resend 200 watches of those 500 to customers who had issues with

00:13:48.480 their watch.

00:13:49.560 And while that was happening, I thought, man, we're not going to recover from this.

00:13:53.020 Our first watches and nearly half of them have issues with them.

00:13:56.600 I mean, I thought that it wasn't going to go much past that when that happened.

00:14:00.220 Well, you sound like you handled it with integrity.

00:14:02.260 And that's what I'm always impressed with is like when business can realize, hey, we made a

00:14:06.420 mistake and then fix the problem.

00:14:08.420 How were people receptive to that?

00:14:10.280 Were they ticked off?

00:14:11.140 What was the reception of how you handled it?

00:14:13.040 Obviously, they were mad that their watches weren't working, but how you handled it?

00:14:16.140 Yeah, I think people are different.

00:14:17.880 There was a handful of people that weren't necessarily happy about it and others that

00:14:21.440 were understanding that we were a new company.

00:14:23.860 And so as quickly as we could, you know, I ordered a new batch of watches, upgraded the

00:14:29.620 movements and a lot of different parts of the watch.

00:14:33.600 We sent them all out as quick as I could.

00:14:35.620 And I think that helped to show them that, you know, I realize we're new.

00:14:40.000 I'm sorry about your watch, but here's a new one.

00:14:42.380 Hope you enjoy it.

00:14:43.720 And we just did that as quickly as possible.

00:14:45.940 And for the most part, people were completely fine with that.

00:14:49.340 Yeah.

00:14:49.520 And it didn't seem like there was a lasting, lasting problem as long as you were willing

00:14:52.780 to address it and handle it correctly.

00:14:55.140 Yeah.

00:14:55.440 I mean, the worst thing you can do is go silent with the customer.

00:14:58.940 You know, they just want some sort of feedback.

00:15:00.560 And if you're honest with them, it's, it's usually fine.

00:15:02.960 So that's one of the things that I know you guys are really, really good at.

00:15:06.680 Like I look at your social media followings and how accessible, like some of the parties

00:15:12.020 that you guys throw, just some of the things that you guys are doing, I think from my perspective

00:15:16.660 are very unique in how you've grown your audience and your brand.

00:15:20.180 Talk to me a little bit about your marketing strategy and how, how that's been received.

00:15:26.160 So our, our motto or slogan, what, what you will is do good, be good.

00:15:31.880 And the reason we chose that is because we wanted to, to go to market as a company who

00:15:37.060 was like socially aware, who cares about, you know, helping others and changing someone's

00:15:44.460 life for the better, even if it's, you know, with some small beanie or gesture, whatever

00:15:49.560 it might be.

00:15:50.220 And so we've, we've done as much as we can to participate in charity events or host parties

00:15:59.860 or, or have bands come out to play.

00:16:02.880 And we do as much as we can to just show people that, you know, we might be a company, but we're

00:16:08.500 also just, you know, people who are trying to connect with our community and have fun at

00:16:13.600 the same time.

00:16:14.420 And I think it's been pretty well received.

00:16:16.380 I mean, we have, you know, good feedback on our, our social media posts and, you know,

00:16:22.040 a lot of activity, whereas some companies who, who might sell more, they just don't have

00:16:27.560 that same FaceTime that we get with our, our customers.

00:16:32.100 Right.

00:16:32.400 Yeah.

00:16:32.700 And that's what I've liked is how receptive and available that you've been and how easily

00:16:37.300 accessible that you've been.

00:16:38.980 So let's, let's jump back to the fact that I think even just in the past couple of weeks,

00:16:44.440 you've come to this point now where you feel like, Hey, I'm, I'm, I'm willing to leave

00:16:48.160 this other job.

00:16:49.100 That's providing a steady income and, you know, frankly, providing your way of life and

00:16:53.680 supporting your family to now I'm going to step out of that into some uncertainty and

00:16:59.120 some unknown.

00:17:00.380 How did you get to that point?

00:17:02.660 Like, was there a point where you said, okay, now I'm having enough income coming in

00:17:06.260 or like, what was the event that led to you making that move?

00:17:11.040 You know, it was kind of a culmination of things.

00:17:14.400 I think not that I wasn't happy at my last job.

00:17:17.580 I mean, I, I still work there.

00:17:19.100 I still like that industry and then whatnot, but I think it came down to how much fun I

00:17:24.660 was having doing Arvo and, and meeting new people and getting involved with other brands

00:17:30.240 and communities.

00:17:31.320 It made me realize that I'm the type of person who does like to be out and about and, you

00:17:36.640 know, making these different connections.

00:17:37.840 And what I was currently doing in that role, I wasn't able to do that, which I think after

00:17:43.400 a while, it just, it made me realize that, you know, I could either keep doing what I'm

00:17:48.900 doing and someday I might wonder what would have happened if I did Arvo or I could just

00:17:54.940 jump into it now, see what I can make of it and sink or swim.

00:17:59.500 But I got to that point where I could no longer have one foot in each, if that makes

00:18:04.200 sense.

00:18:04.420 I just had to jump in.

00:18:06.320 Obviously there's a lot of excitement and a lot of optimism about what the future holds.

00:18:11.480 What are some of the fears that you have moving forward?

00:18:14.160 I'd really like to know what those are.

00:18:15.560 Cause I think, you know, what's interesting is, is my wife was, was asking yesterday about

00:18:21.200 somebody that we know and she said, Hey, this guy's like really smart.

00:18:24.480 Why is he still working for this other company?

00:18:26.580 And my response was, it has nothing to do with intelligence and it has everything to

00:18:31.740 do with courage, right?

00:18:33.420 It has to do with the fact that, yeah, he's a bright guy, but at the end of the day, a

00:18:38.400 lot of guys just don't believe that they have it.

00:18:41.420 There's just not enough belief in themselves that they can go out there and they can make

00:18:46.020 it work.

00:18:46.500 And I know that as I branched out on my own with my financial planning practice, and even

00:18:50.240 as I start this order of man, I know that I still have some doubts and some uncertainties,

00:18:56.000 even though I've already made the plunge and made that big leap.

00:18:58.800 Are you facing that as well?

00:19:00.220 What are some of those fears that you have now?

00:19:01.860 I mean, one of my biggest fears is, you know, there's only so much that any one person can

00:19:08.400 do with the company.

00:19:09.480 And so you get to the point where you have to start, you know, delegating or hiring people

00:19:15.160 to help you.

00:19:16.540 And I fear that as you do that, you know, it dilutes it a little bit and you lose some

00:19:21.720 of that relationship with your customers.

00:19:24.660 I worry about that sometimes.

00:19:26.100 And also I studied business management and, you know, in other aspects of business, but they

00:19:31.620 don't really teach you, you're running this company.

00:19:34.380 Now, how do you scale it?

00:19:36.320 And so I think right now my biggest challenge is knowing where to go from here.

00:19:42.920 Now that I have more time and I can tidy up the details, now how do I scale it?

00:19:48.520 And so I'm still at that point where I don't know and I'm trying to find out, you know,

00:19:52.840 the best ways to go about that.

00:19:54.120 And it's scary because if you try the wrong route, you know, it could sink you.

00:19:59.040 And it is scary.

00:20:00.260 So you talk a lot about the people around you and trying to find those.

00:20:06.160 You didn't learn that.

00:20:07.080 And so it's all about creating your own networks and creating the right people and having the

00:20:10.820 right relationships.

00:20:12.060 Talk to me about the people around you, whether that's family, obviously your wife's in the

00:20:17.180 business.

00:20:18.140 Are there mentors?

00:20:19.820 Like, tell me about some of the support people around you that are helping you advance

00:20:25.800 Arvo to where you want it to be.

00:20:27.360 So I do have, I mean, you have a couple of mentors and a couple other business owners

00:20:31.960 that I'm close with who I can bounce ideas off or ask how to do, you know, certain things.

00:20:36.580 I'm also, excuse me, I'm part of a group of, I guess, entrepreneurs or people who are looking

00:20:43.060 to do something like that.

00:20:44.540 We meet together once a month and talk about ideas and how to go about that.

00:20:49.960 But in speaking with them, you realize, or it brings to mind like all these different

00:20:54.440 ideas or aspects that you can incorporate into your business.

00:20:57.700 And so, I mean, I have a good network of people who just are nice to talk to and are great

00:21:02.920 at providing ideas.

00:21:04.380 I think, you know, between that and doing my own research and trial and error is basically

00:21:10.980 how I'm trying to learn.

00:21:12.500 And I want to come back to that.

00:21:13.620 I want to come back to the trial and error and shorten learning curves.

00:21:16.820 But I'm also curious, did you come across or do you currently still come across any naysayers?

00:21:22.780 Are there people out there in your immediate network or close to you that express their

00:21:27.960 doubt or whatever it may be, maybe just some negative reaction to what you're doing?

00:21:32.960 And if so, how do you overcome those things?

00:21:35.140 I wouldn't say there's people who are negative, you know, at least to my face.

00:21:39.340 I don't know if there's something behind my back.

00:21:41.940 But to be honest, I mean, most people are pretty supportive.

00:21:45.020 And, you know, if they follow us on social media or if they've never heard of us, they

00:21:49.660 think it's, you know, it's cool what we're doing.

00:21:52.060 And to be honest, I guess I've been lucky.

00:21:54.340 I haven't had a lot of naysayers.

00:21:56.000 And, you know, what's interesting about that is that, I mean, we've known each other for

00:21:59.940 a long time, but I fully believe that you'll be successful with your business.

00:22:03.920 There's not a doubt in my mind that you will.

00:22:06.300 And I think there's probably a lot of other people that think that as well.

00:22:09.880 But it also makes me wonder if that you just have enough confidence in what you're doing

00:22:13.920 that maybe it could even be that you're not even worried about that stuff, right?

00:22:18.360 Like it's not even on your radar.

00:22:20.140 Well, I mean, if I were to sit down and think about it, there's definitely some worries,

00:22:25.000 but I'm not the type that dwells on that.

00:22:27.320 I don't have a great memory, like short term.

00:22:30.680 So I just, you know, if I have a task and I want to do something, I just figure out how

00:22:34.420 to do it.

00:22:34.920 And I try not to think of, you know, what could go wrong because I don't really like those

00:22:38.680 hypothetical situations.

00:22:40.340 I just, you know, if I want to do something, I'll try it, see if it works.

00:22:44.460 And if it does, I'll replicate it.

00:22:46.220 If not, we'll move on.

00:22:47.700 How do you find the balance between you doing it?

00:22:51.160 Because you sound like, and I know based on our conversations, that you and I are both

00:22:55.260 do-it-yourselfers, right?

00:22:56.460 I would categorize us both in that category.

00:23:00.120 So how do you find the balance between doing it yourself and then knowing, like you said

00:23:05.220 earlier, that I've got to come to a point where I'm going to scale this business?

00:23:09.440 Are there some things that you've used or some tools or tricks that help you realize,

00:23:14.420 here's what I should be doing myself and here's what I should be delegating out to other people?

00:23:18.500 So up to this point, aside from, you know, my family and two interns that I have, I also

00:23:25.180 have two employees.

00:23:26.400 And what I've done with them is I've found out or I've identified two areas of the business

00:23:32.580 that I can do, but they take a lot of time and they don't allow me to grow the business.

00:23:38.980 And I've delegated those out.

00:23:40.880 And so the first one was all my inbound emails from customers or bloggers or whoever it may

00:23:48.520 be.

00:23:48.980 So she answers all the emails and filters them out, either answering them herself as a customer

00:23:55.580 service representative, or if it's more of a business inquiry, she'd forward it to me.

00:24:00.740 And that alone cut my time dramatically throughout the week.

00:24:04.380 And then the second one was I hired a lady to do all of our blogger and influencer relations. 1.00

00:24:13.820 And what I mean by that is we're a company that we're a little different in marketing to

00:24:18.860 where we're not paying for, you know, billboards or TV stuff or online AdWords a whole lot.

00:24:25.720 All our marketing dollars goes into social media and blogger influencers who have a following

00:24:32.240 that we can tap into. And we do collaborations with them, you know, setting up giveaways or

00:24:37.840 promotions, posts, et cetera. And so I hired a lady to manage all those relations so that I don't have 1.00

00:24:44.340 to be emailing back and forth. And that also has cut my time dramatically to where I can focus on

00:24:51.060 on other items.

00:24:52.640 One of the biggest concerns I have as I bring on employees is, and I've done this in the past,

00:24:57.860 where now I've freed up my time. And I know it takes a lot of discipline because sometimes

00:25:02.120 when we free up our time, we don't, we aren't as effective with the time we just freed up as we

00:25:06.600 could or should be, right?

00:25:07.660 For sure. Yes.

00:25:08.920 And so I think that's a trap that we've got to avoid if we're wanting to branch out and be

00:25:13.500 successful, that we've got to really grind and know that if I have a spare minute, I mean,

00:25:17.420 you said yourself for the last two years, you've been working full time and then in mornings and

00:25:22.580 nights, you're doing everything you can with Arvo to get it off the ground. And I think that takes a

00:25:27.200 big commitment.

00:25:27.720 Mm-hmm. Definitely.

00:25:29.880 Let's go back to learning things and learning curves. I want to talk about things that maybe

00:25:36.820 you've identified as ways to shorten the learning curve, because you started this as an experiment

00:25:42.940 based on what you've said and really trying to gain education, to gain some learning. But at the

00:25:49.940 same time, you want to be as efficient as possible. Are there some things that you've learned or done

00:25:55.080 to shorten the time from, I don't know anything about this, to now I'm an expert maybe at this

00:26:01.160 particular area?

00:26:02.180 Uh-huh. Well, I think, first of all, it comes from what you're passionate about, and you might not

00:26:08.080 know that in the beginning. So for example, I wanted to try to learn how to do a little bit of

00:26:15.020 everything myself. And so I built my first website. I did my photography photos. I reached out to

00:26:22.560 different bloggers and whatnot, different revenue streams. And I found out what I liked, what I was

00:26:28.060 good at, and what I enjoyed learning and researching on my own. And then I spent my time focusing on

00:26:34.380 those areas. And then the things that I didn't click easily or that I didn't enjoy, I found people who

00:26:42.080 were good at that and almost had them teach me, mentor me a little bit as they were willing.

00:26:48.160 And I guess an example of that would be the coding, the back end of a website. I don't have

00:26:55.180 necessarily the patience to learn all that. And so as opposed to wasting time, I would rather hire

00:27:02.860 out someone to do my website or have them give me some sort of fast track learning on it so I don't

00:27:09.660 waste a lot of time doing that.

00:27:11.820 Well, you talk a lot about finding the things that you're good at. What do you think are your

00:27:16.080 strengths? What would you say that you bring to the table as far as being strengths and that you

00:27:20.460 focus on?

00:27:21.100 I think what I enjoy most, first and foremost, are photography and the marketing. So I really

00:27:29.000 enjoy learning how to shoot products, how to shoot lifestyle images, how to use Photoshop and

00:27:36.600 anything that has to do with the photo media. And I enjoy using those to do fun marketing campaigns.

00:27:45.000 So, I mean, we've done like conceptual photos where, you know, maybe there's something surreal

00:27:52.520 about a photo and then we have our customers or our followers kind of caption that image,

00:27:58.480 something that stands out to them. And so it's a little different, but it's a way that I've taken

00:28:03.360 two of my passions and kind of combine them together to build some momentum and some rapport with our

00:28:09.380 followers. And one of the ones that I've seen that I like is, I think it's you and your family.

00:28:15.740 You're in the, you're in the woods and there's a huge, just oversized watch in the background,

00:28:20.660 I think, an art of a watch in the background. Is that what you're talking about?

00:28:23.360 Stuff like that. Yeah.

00:28:24.560 Yeah. I love those. Those are so good. Sorry, but I interrupted you, but keep, keep going. So

00:28:29.360 photography, the photo media stuff, what else?

00:28:31.940 Yeah. So those, you know, creative marketing strategies, I love all that kind of stuff. And

00:28:37.440 I like bouncing new ideas and having, you know, different contests, that kind of stuff I enjoy

00:28:43.720 and kind of building that brand to consumer relationship. I think it's, it's fun. And,

00:28:50.340 you know, things like maybe the website or tracking finances like that stuff, I'm not as passionate

00:28:57.320 about. And so I find people who are, and I try to involve them, whether it's, you know, through trade

00:29:03.600 or, or even just paying them, it's worth it to me because I can focus on what I love and not get

00:29:09.460 bogged down by, by those kinds of things. What are some necessary skills? If there's somebody

00:29:15.220 listening today that says, Oh man, this guy's awesome. Like he's talking about branching out on

00:29:19.640 his own and I've got this idea I've always wanted to do. And now I feel motivated to go start

00:29:24.420 something. What are some skills that you think men have to have right up front or learn very quickly

00:29:30.780 to be successful in any type of endeavor like this? Definitely passion and drive, because there's

00:29:36.520 going to be a lot of times where, you know, you don't want to stay up until 2am or 3am to, to get

00:29:43.880 something done, or you don't want to learn this or learn that. And you definitely need that, that drive

00:29:49.600 motivation and a little bit of stubbornness to, to make that happen. I think you, you know,

00:29:56.120 I think you do need to be creative to an extent. And honesty is something that I've found has been

00:30:02.820 huge for us because we're, I mean, we're a small company. Not everybody realizes that, you know,

00:30:08.900 they might log into our Instagram and see that we have 20,000 followers and think we're bigger than we

00:30:14.640 are. But there's a, you know, a balance between portraying yourself as a small company and then

00:30:21.060 portraying yourself as a large company. And I think honesty comes from the interactions that we

00:30:27.860 have on our website and our social media. I mean, we have people all the time who, who will say,

00:30:34.360 hey, my watch broke right on, you know, the messages in a post and everyone else is seeing that.

00:30:41.020 And sometimes, you know, as, as an owner, you want to erase their comment, try to hide that from

00:30:46.380 everybody and try to fix it, you know, behind the scenes. But what I found that's kind of cool is

00:30:52.480 if you address these issues right on front of your post where people can see that, it almost does

00:30:58.800 more for you than trying to hurry and take it off and, and helping around the back. It shows that you

00:31:03.720 are upfront and, you know, honest to your customers and want to help out. And so honesty is huge.

00:31:09.620 I would say those would be my three pillars are just, you know, drive, motivation, honesty and

00:31:14.940 hard work. I think it's really important that you brought up one of the things you just said was

00:31:20.260 sometimes you don't want to stay up till two or three and work on whatever it is you may be working

00:31:25.060 on. And I think what we do sometimes when we do make this leap into some exciting venture is we have

00:31:32.240 this false notion or this false belief that if it's my quote unquote passion, that everything's just

00:31:37.440 going to be easy and it's all going to fall into place and I'm going to love every minute of it

00:31:42.560 when what you're saying and personally what I've experienced is that, yeah, I do have passion for

00:31:47.820 the things I do, but that doesn't mean that sometimes I don't want to maybe put together the

00:31:53.540 show notes for a podcast episode or whatever it may be. Right. So I think it's important to recognize

00:31:59.140 that, but then also to recognize that you can find people and you said this too, you can find

00:32:05.680 people to help delegate that stuff out because there's certain things in my business that I feel

00:32:09.920 like, man, these are just draining my energy and other things that actually give me energy when I

00:32:15.280 do. And so I'm really glad that you made that distinction. Yeah, it's definitely important because

00:32:19.900 there's a lot of wasted energy, you know, that can go into something where it might have been 10 times

00:32:25.440 easier just to find somebody who can do it for you or, or hire it out. I mean, sometimes it's,

00:32:30.760 it's worth it. You talked a lot about your marketing strategy and the way that you get out in front of

00:32:36.440 people is through social media. Obviously, like you said, 20,000 followers on Instagram. And I know

00:32:41.440 everybody who's following you is very active from what I can see. And then also outreach to bloggers.

00:32:46.740 Why do it that way? What, what was your thought process behind we're going to build a brand this way

00:32:51.500 as opposed to traditional media outlets or advertising outlets? I think because maybe it's

00:32:57.960 because here in Utah, we do have, you know, a pretty good blogging network. And I was somewhat

00:33:05.120 familiar with how that worked. That influenced me a little bit. And, you know, when you're a small

00:33:10.400 startup, especially in a very competitive industry, such as watches, where companies have been around

00:33:15.520 for decades, there's got to be something that you do that other people don't. And so what we found is

00:33:21.600 by working with influencers who have thousands of followers who respect what they say and post,

00:33:29.400 we're able to, to build relationships with these influencers, get them to post about our project

00:33:35.140 product, whether it's through paying them or maybe we trade them something. All of a sudden,

00:33:40.040 all their followers are wondering, Oh, cool. That's, that's a nice watch. I want to go check out their

00:33:44.720 stuff. Then they come follow us. And from the beginning, we found that that was the biggest

00:33:50.920 bang for our buck. I mean, I've tried more traditional outlets that I just wasn't as successful

00:33:56.080 on. And I think that in the next few years, you're going to see more and more, you know, people using

00:34:02.340 bloggers and less, you know, using like a celebrity because, you know, if, if, for example, LeBron James

00:34:10.200 is wearing our watch, people aren't going to care and people can't relate to LeBron James. But

00:34:16.160 if, you know, your neighbor who says, Oh, this is a great watch. You should go check them out. It's,

00:34:21.880 you know, it's only 50, 60 bucks. That's going to be a lot more compelling to someone to go buy our

00:34:27.000 stuff than if they see LeBron James wearing it, if that makes sense. Right. Yeah. It's just going to,

00:34:32.400 it's going to connect them better. Yeah. And so people, I mean, people want to connect with,

00:34:37.740 with others. They want to have that relationship and it's the same with products. I mean,

00:34:42.760 they want to be able to relate to it some way. And ours has been through social involvement and

00:34:49.860 influencers. How do you reach out to somebody who I've got to be careful. I don't want to say,

00:34:55.480 I don't want to say they're better because that's not the case, but how do you reach out to somebody

00:34:59.200 who maybe is a little bit further down the track than you or been a little bit more successful up to

00:35:04.020 this point? How do you reach out to that person and make that first and initial contact?

00:35:09.540 You mean if you're wanting to maybe collaborate with them? Exactly.

00:35:13.860 So there's almost an, I don't want to say an unwritten law, but when you're starting out,

00:35:19.260 if you want to be promoted by bigger companies with more followers, more than likely you're going

00:35:25.500 to have to either pay them or know them, you know, outside of work. Because if you're a,

00:35:32.420 if you're a small company and you go to a large company and say, Hey, do you want to trade like

00:35:36.860 a post for a post or product product? More than likely, they're not going to respond to you,

00:35:41.420 not because they don't like your product, but because they're also wanting to get something

00:35:46.620 out of it naturally. And so what happens is, you know, if you have 500 followers, start collaborating

00:35:53.100 with people who have 500 or a thousand followers and then slowly build yourself up that way.

00:35:58.220 And as you grow your base, that margin of difference in your followers kind of starts

00:36:04.340 to expand to where, you know, if you have about 10,000 followers, you know, working with someone

00:36:10.860 with 15,000 followers is probably acceptable. If you kind of stay on that same, that same wavelength,

00:36:18.460 then you can get away with, you know, doing trades, whether it's like I was saying, you know,

00:36:23.600 you post this and I'll post for you. That way we both gain followers. If you're wanting to work

00:36:28.460 with someone who has a lot more, more than likely you're going to have to pay for it. And it can

00:36:32.500 range anywhere from, you know, 20 bucks to 1500 bucks. I'm so glad you said that. What's interesting

00:36:38.980 is I had a guy on, his name is Tanner Guzzi with Masculine Style. And he talked about being better with

00:36:45.860 your style, being more fashionable. And he said, it's all about making gradual changes in your,

00:36:51.040 in your fashion. If you're a five and the next day you try to be a 10, there's going to be a

00:36:55.660 disconnect. But if you're a five and you try to work up to a six or seven and then a seven to an

00:37:01.460 eight and eight to nine. But what I keep hearing over and over again, as I interview successful men

00:37:06.120 is all about the process. And I think we have a tendency to want to rush through things and get

00:37:11.460 to the end goal really quick. And what you're talking about is enjoying the process of building a

00:37:16.660 company, right? Yeah. I mean, you're going to get frustrated if you're not, if you expect to get

00:37:21.640 10,000 followers in a month, then you're probably going to be disappointed because it's as funny as

00:37:28.660 it is, it's very competitive. And when you're an e-commerce company like ourselves, that's what we

00:37:34.080 look for is new followers. And they don't just come like that, you know? Right. You have to earn

00:37:39.620 their key. You have to earn them to stay.

00:37:41.400 So I think you're somebody, again, based on our conversation, who is somebody who always has an

00:37:47.640 idea, right? Always looking forward, looking for the next thing, looking for just something new to

00:37:53.860 try and experience and be. And so what are some of those things for you? Like what types of visions

00:37:59.440 and thoughts do you have about what the future holds, either for your company or other things

00:38:03.320 moving forward? Yeah. I mean, I love brainstorming ideas and I do have quite a few that I'd like to put

00:38:10.300 an emotion at some point. But the biggest one that, um, you know, we've talked about it a little

00:38:16.420 bit is this, um, it's a company where we're going to be helping manage that relationship between brands

00:38:24.740 and influencers. Cause like you were saying, I mean, there, there are plenty of, of people wanting

00:38:30.380 to start up, but they don't know, like they don't know anybody who can help them promote their

00:38:34.660 brand. And for me, it was, I had to go out and go to blogger conferences and do different things

00:38:41.340 to meet these people. But we want to help new startups and, and bigger companies bridge that

00:38:47.420 gap. And that will be through a phone application where it's almost like I'm blanking on the name

00:38:53.000 of that, that app where you can meet people Tinder. Oh, Tinder. Yeah. So it's almost a Tinder style

00:38:59.040 where, you know, you scroll through these different bloggers or brands. And if you see something

00:39:03.640 you like, we help connect them. And so it's, uh, it kind of takes out that, you know, if you don't

00:39:09.800 know somebody, I'm not going to do it. We're going to help them. You have a product. I know someone who

00:39:14.040 could help you rep it. We want to bring them together so we can create like a good collaboration

00:39:18.260 right now. I'm working on that application and hopefully it'll be cool. And it will even help

00:39:23.720 Arvo down the road. And I think that's so valuable. Like you're saying is just connecting with

00:39:28.020 and knowing the right people and being at the right place at the right time. Not that it's all luck,

00:39:32.320 but certainly there's an element of, you know, just, just being there, just being out and being

00:39:37.860 visible and being present and being in front of the right people. Right. Sure. So Jake, I appreciate

00:39:42.700 a ton. You come in on the show. You've shared a ton of valuable information for guys who, who have

00:39:48.240 that idea, who want to take that idea to the next level. If somebody wants to connect with you and learn

00:39:54.080 more about what you're doing with Arvo or even this new app that you're talking about, what is the best

00:39:59.380 way to connect with you? Well, I think initially, um, I mean, I'm more than happy to email back and

00:40:06.200 forth or I, uh, my phone number is in my email signature. So just Jake at Arvo where it was

00:40:13.080 probably the best way to connect and we can go from there. So we'll make sure if, if, if people

00:40:17.460 have questions or want to, want to learn from you or talk with you to reach out to you, I know you're

00:40:21.660 busy. And so obviously, you know, we want to, we want to help as we can. We understand how busy you

00:40:26.900 are. So we again, appreciate it. Is there any last minute bits of advice or words of encouragement for

00:40:32.240 somebody that wants to make that leap into this idea or this passion they have? Yeah. Um, in fact,

00:40:37.520 I, I kind of live by one phrase that I read a few years ago, to be honest, I wish I remember where I

00:40:44.340 heard it, but I, I just don't, but they were talking about starting a business and they said,

00:40:50.220 if you wait till your product or service is perfect, it's too late. And so what they're saying is if,

00:40:56.580 if you're waiting till you have all the details squared away, someone else has already beat you

00:41:00.940 to the punch and you've lost. So if you have an idea, no matter where it is in the process,

00:41:05.960 just start putting stuff together and the details will come. Don't worry about having it perfect

00:41:11.840 before you launch. I mean, like I said, our first batch of watches we had issues with,

00:41:17.240 but that got us on the map and put us in, in the motion to fix it. And, and now we're here.

00:41:22.720 So just, I mean, if you have an idea, pursue it now and don't wait.

00:41:26.860 Awesome. Thanks. Again, what we'll do is we'll make links to all of the resources you talked about

00:41:31.780 and how people can reach out to you. We'll make those available on our show notes at

00:41:35.060 orderman.com. Jake, thanks again for being on the show.

00:41:38.280 You're welcome, Ryan. I appreciate it.

00:41:40.500 There you have it guys. Mr. Jake Nackes with Arvo teaching us and giving us some insights in how to

00:41:45.240 turn that idea into a lucrative career, which he has been able to do. Now, if you're running or

00:41:49.980 working out or driving or hiding under the desk at work, listening to this, and you want to get

00:41:55.020 some of the information about this episode, remember head to orderofman.com slash 017 to

00:42:00.480 get all the information and notes from this show. And so while you're there, also, if you would,

00:42:04.940 please leave a rating review and you can do that again at orderofman.com slash iTunes. Also be sure,

00:42:10.960 if you will, to connect with us this week on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Last week,

00:42:15.760 I gave away a signed copy of the book, The Way of the Seal by retired Navy SEAL commander Mark

00:42:21.240 Devine. I have some additional signed copies of some other books that I'll be giving away this week,

00:42:25.660 but you'll only find the details to those giveaways on our social media channels. So you can find us on

00:42:30.580 Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at orderofman. Next week, I have a conversation with a former

00:42:36.620 heavyweight MMA fighter about toughness, overcoming challenges, and learning to succeed. So please,

00:42:43.380 if you would, subscribe to orderofman.com slash iTunes. Subscribe to the show so you never miss

00:42:49.140 one episode of what we've got on the store for you. Guys, I look forward to talking with you next

00:42:53.640 week, but until then, take action and become the man you were meant to be. Thank you for listening

00:42:59.900 to the Order of Man podcast. If you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you

00:43:04.940 were meant to be, we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - July 14, 2015

OoM 017： From Passion Project to New Career with Jake Nackos

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