Order of Man - OoM 022： Overcoming Struggle and Achieving Greatness with Division I, All-American Wrestler, Jim Harshaw

00:00:00.000 As men, we've all had struggles and adversity. What separates the triumphant from those that

00:00:04.100 get lost in the despair is an ability to overcome pain and suffering. My guest today,

00:00:08.180 former Division I All-American wrestler Jim Harshaw, teaches us how we can do just that

00:00:12.600 and achieve greatness in the process. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest,

00:00:17.740 embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up

00:00:22.920 one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:30.000 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day,

00:00:35.680 and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:41.020 Guys, what is going on? Welcome back to the Order of Man podcast. Of course,

00:00:44.540 we've got a great one lined up for you today, as always. For those of you who have been listening

00:00:48.200 to the show for any amount of time, you know that I'm a huge fan of sports. I played football,

00:00:53.100 baseball, and I wrestled in high school. And although I did not achieve nearly the same

00:00:57.340 level of success as my guest today, and some of the other guests that I've had on,

00:01:01.180 I've learned a ton from competitive sports about how to succeed in life. Jim Harshaw and I are going

00:01:06.100 to talk all about that today and more. But two quick things before we get into the interview.

00:01:11.120 First, and as always, thanks again for the ratings and reviews. I really appreciate those

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00:01:19.560 you can head over to orderofman.com slash iTunes and let us know what you think of the show.

00:01:24.400 Let us know how we're doing. I will be grateful if you did. Also, many of you have probably heard

00:01:29.300 of the new app Periscope, which is a live streaming app that is taking the social media world by storm.

00:01:34.900 I've got to tell you, I'm hooked. I've got the bug. If you are on Periscope or interested in

00:01:38.960 checking it out, be sure to follow us at Order of Man. I've done a scope of morning rituals. I did a

00:01:44.080 live preview of the treehouse I'm building for my sons. We talked about eight skill sets every man

00:01:48.440 must master. And I even did a behind the scenes sneak peek into my workshop slash office slash

00:01:54.220 recording studio slash house storage. We've got a lot going on out there. And I did a behind the

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00:02:04.140 And we're going to use the hashtag scope of man for the show. So be sure to check that out.

00:02:08.620 Now, let me introduce you to our guest today. He is a former division one, all American wrestler.

00:02:13.520 His name is Jim Harshaw. Jim has learned a ton of valuable lessons about life on the wrestling mat.

00:02:18.060 And he has set out on a mission to share those stories of struggle and of pain and suffering,

00:02:22.600 but most importantly, how to achieve greatness. He's won three ACC championships for the University

00:02:28.740 of Virginia. He's trained at the Olympic Training Center, and he's also competed overseas for Team

00:02:33.440 USA. He's got a lot going on. His goal is really to relate those powerful lessons of failure, struggle,

00:02:38.980 setbacks. And really what he wants to do is empower his audience to overcome their own challenges

00:02:43.360 and achieve success, but despite some of those inevitable failures. So you can find him podcasting

00:02:49.240 on the Wrestling With Greatness podcast. Jim, hey, thanks for joining us on the show today. I'm

00:02:53.880 excited to have you here. Likewise, Ryan. Great thing. Thanks for having me on the show.

00:02:57.860 So we've got some common interest in wrestling. You wrestled a lot more and your skills were a lot

00:03:02.820 better than mine was. I only wrestled for two years, but I think we'll have a good conversation

00:03:06.300 about wrestling and life and all that fun stuff. Yeah, man. Once a wrestler, always a wrestler.

00:03:09.920 That's right. That's right. So my first question for you is, I'd like to know a little bit about

00:03:14.920 your backstory, how a former Division I All-American goes from wrestling to now in this business world

00:03:21.100 and the business space and leadership and self-development. Sure, sure. This could be a

00:03:25.300 long story, but I'm going to abbreviate it as best I can. So I grew up about a half an hour north of

00:03:29.220 Pittsburgh. And Pennsylvania, the roots of wrestling run deep in Pennsylvania. And I played baseball and

00:03:39.360 football and soccer and ran cross country. And I've done a lot of different sports, but wrestling was

00:03:43.960 that sport that stuck with me. It's the sport that I excelled at. And I learned early on that

00:03:49.980 the harder I worked, the more successful I was. I didn't have to depend on teammates for me to

00:03:55.880 succeed. And that was attractive to me. And that's also the hardest part of the sport is that you don't

00:04:01.220 have anybody to blame or to hide behind or to really share in the pains and struggles like you

00:04:09.380 do in a lot of team sports. So I had a successful high school career for the most part. Failed to

00:04:16.720 achieve my dream, which was becoming a state champion. As a matter of fact, I never even made

00:04:22.720 it onto the podium. I actually never placed in the high school state championships. Basically,

00:04:27.220 I was more or less a recruited walk-on at the University of Virginia. I was part of a top

00:04:32.240 10 recruiting class in the country. I was not part of the reason why we were ranked top 10. But

00:04:36.880 by the end of it, I ended up winning three ACC championships and becoming an All-American.

00:04:43.560 So by those stats, I was probably the most successful wrestler out of that recruiting class. So I just

00:04:51.720 enjoyed the hard work and really thrived on that. And then he asked about leadership and kind

00:04:56.920 of how I got into, you know, where that sort of came from. And I've done a lot of jobs. But one

00:05:03.960 of the, I was a Division I coach for seven years, two of those years as a Division I head coach for

00:05:10.820 a small school in Pennsylvania, Slippery Rock University. It was a Division II athletics. We

00:05:15.380 wrestled Division I, opted to wrestle up the Division I level because we had a lot of historical

00:05:20.100 success with the program. And, you know, once you get into coaching, it just kind of, you hear

00:05:25.420 yourself repeating all these things that leaders throughout your life have said. And, you know,

00:05:31.440 just like when you become a parent, you know, you're a father and I'm a father. And when you become a

00:05:35.860 parent, you hear these things that you've had other people in your life telling you growing up,

00:05:40.220 teachers and parents and coaches, et cetera. And I found myself saying those same things and just

00:05:45.760 really have really thrived on self-help books and reading and lifelong learning. And that's led to

00:05:53.220 just some different opportunities and speaking opportunities. And now I have my platform, which

00:05:58.880 is jimharshaw.net and then the Wrestling and the Greatest Podcast. So I'm curious how things changed

00:06:06.080 for you in your life because you said you never even reached the podium in high school, but all of a

00:06:09.760 sudden you go into college and you start wrestling there and, you know, you have your titles and

00:06:15.500 things there. What changed for you? Was it just physical changes? Was it mental changes?

00:06:19.880 Yeah, yeah. It was a lot of those things. Gosh, physical changes, I was a late bloomer for one.

00:06:25.300 And then mental changes, you know, I finally had, you know, I always had great people in my life and

00:06:32.060 just great coaches who really molded me and shaped me through the years. And my parents were just

00:06:37.920 unbelievable supporters of me through the years, as well as my sisters who were my wrestling partners on

00:06:43.400 the living room floor and I was practicing two moves at home. But really, you know, what changed is

00:06:50.620 I finally, I had a coach. I'll give you one example. I had a coach, and I'll give you one specific

00:06:55.860 example. I had a coach whose name is John McGovern. He's actually the head wrestling coach at Division

00:07:00.980 3 Dubuque University. He was our assistant coach at Virginia. And he convinced me, I was at the

00:07:08.460 national championships my sophomore year, and I had to wrestle the number one ranked wrestler in the

00:07:12.480 country. He was undefeated, number one ranked wrestler. He had won two national championships

00:07:16.300 already. He actually, the year he didn't win, he actually got second. So he's a three-time national

00:07:21.580 finalist. He's one of the best wrestlers in the history of the sport. He's from Iowa. We're in Iowa,

00:07:28.020 and there's 20,000 people in the arena. And I've got to wrestle this. I've got to wrestle this,

00:07:32.680 right? And while John actually used to be the assistant coach at Iowa, so he knew this guy.

00:07:40.000 And John got in my head, now he's my assistant coach, and he convinced me that I'm going to beat

00:07:44.720 this guy. And I stepped on the mat, not just believing that I was going to beat him, but like

00:07:49.440 I knew for a fact, I'm going to beat this. Like it was just, I walked on the mat with 100% confidence,

00:07:53.560 I'm going to beat this guy. And I went out, and I proceeded to get completely dismantled.

00:07:59.220 So not the ending of the story that you'd like to hear, but this was a turning point in my life,

00:08:06.120 because I finally realized that my only shot was if I believed. So my chances went from like

00:08:13.040 one in 1,000 to beating this guy to one in 100, you know? And sure, it's one in 100, but

00:08:18.280 they were 10 times better. The odds were 10 times better if I just believed. And so I realized that

00:08:24.200 believing, there was no harm in that, right? So I went out in the very

00:08:29.120 next match, and I beat the highest ranked wrestler in the country who I'd ever beaten.

00:08:32.700 It was a guy ranked sixth in the country, and I beat him, because I walked on the mat with

00:08:36.280 this same sort of idea in my head. It's like, I'm going to beat him. And deep down, you go,

00:08:42.180 well, even if I don't, it doesn't matter. I'm still going to beat this guy. I'm going to

00:08:45.960 pretend I'm going to beat him. I'm going to act like I'm going to beat him. I'm going to have 0.97

00:08:48.400 the confidence and the belief, self-belief that I'm going to beat him. And if you fail,

00:08:53.260 well, you fail, but your best shot is believing. So this was kind of a turning point in my life

00:08:58.480 where I stopped having as much self-doubt. You know, I just had so much self-doubt in my whole

00:09:06.100 life. And at that point, I realized, well, self-doubt doesn't do me any good. So why not

00:09:11.120 just believe big, big things, and maybe, just maybe, you have a shot at achieving them. So that

00:09:17.820 kind of, that was a turning point in my life. How does somebody go from maybe not having any

00:09:23.600 success in one certain area to all of a sudden, because we hear this fake till you make it type

00:09:27.780 thing. And how do you go from not having any success in one area to, I'm just going to fake

00:09:31.940 it. I'm going to believe that I can. What's that transition like? And how does that work for men

00:09:37.040 who maybe don't have any success in a certain area that they're trying to accomplish any degree of

00:09:41.640 success in? Yeah. Yeah. Great question. So over the years, you see successful people,

00:09:47.500 right? Whether it's in wrestling or business or politics or Hollywood or anything, right? And we

00:09:55.080 just, all of us, you know, the listener, you and me, we all know successful people, right? We all

00:10:00.680 sort of see these people who we want to emulate, or maybe that's our boss or this leader in our

00:10:04.800 community or a friend who's just achieved at a high level or a coach that we had. And when you look

00:10:12.060 at all these people, there are commonalities, right? There are things that they do, experiences

00:10:19.240 that they've had and things that they create that help them become successful. And, and I've sort of

00:10:24.960 boiled this down to a formula that just by doing a lot of research and, and, and it's, it kind of goes

00:10:30.540 like this. So, so successful people, when you look at the highest level, it's just successful people.

00:10:35.180 They understand their values, right? They understand what they want. And when you understand

00:10:43.500 deep down what you want, you can, you understand where to set goals. So for example, you can ask

00:10:48.280 yourself if I made another, let's pick a number, $50,000 a year. Starting today, I make another $50,000

00:10:56.040 a year, every year for the rest of my life. You know, even, you know, I get my raises and make more

00:11:00.640 money, whatever, add $50,000 to that. You got this annuity coming in at 50 grand a year.

00:11:05.620 What does that change in your life? So what, so what, what pressures does it relieve? And what does

00:11:11.440 it, what does it make you excited to do? So maybe it's saving for your, you know, you and I are dads,

00:11:17.400 you know, and tuition's going up ridiculous rates. You know, for me, I would say, well, it's going to

00:11:20.980 make, it's going to be, it's going to help me pay for my children's college, right? So it's going to

00:11:25.500 help me when my parents, as my parents age, it's going to help them, you know, relieve their financial

00:11:30.360 burdens as, as they age and kind of help out when, when I need to help out and step into their

00:11:34.860 lives. It's going to help me take that dream vacation to, to Tahiti with my wife that I've

00:11:40.860 always dreamed of taking, you know, it's going to help. So when you answer these kinds of questions,

00:11:44.700 it helps you identify your values. Okay. So what's important to me? Education is important to me for

00:11:49.360 my children, you know, taking care of my mom and dad, my family, you know what I mean? My closest family

00:11:54.300 taking care of that family is very important to me. My wife, my, you know, relationship with my wife,

00:11:59.080 experience and adventure is important to me. So these are sort of things that are important to

00:12:04.220 me in my life. And when you ask yourself these questions, you understand your values. And then

00:12:08.360 you go from there, you go, okay, if those are my values, what are my goals? And I, I, there are

00:12:13.080 four areas in your life where, where you should be setting goals and it's relationships, self, health,

00:12:19.620 and wealth. So relationships is for me, it's, it's my wife. It's, it's the number one relationship in my

00:12:24.260 life. And my self goals are, uh, around, you know, skills you need to develop knowledge,

00:12:30.760 knowledge you need to acquire experiences you need to acquire in order to get to the next level,

00:12:35.720 achieve your biggest goals. And health is, you know, what are my fitness goals? What do I want to,

00:12:41.560 you know, my diet, do I want to lose 30 pounds? Um, do I want to run a marathon? What are my fitness

00:12:46.600 goals and health goals? And then finally, and these are in order of importance and is your wealth goal?

00:12:52.140 Cause if you could have all the money in the world, you can win the lottery tomorrow. But if

00:12:55.480 you have a broken relationship with your spouse and, and you don't feel like you're growing or

00:12:59.320 learning new skills and acquiring new knowledge and your health is in terrible shape, then all the

00:13:04.620 money in the world is irrelevant. You know, you're not right. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

00:13:08.560 Right. And then you look at successful people. So they have these, these, these clear values,

00:13:12.780 they have these clearly identified goals, and then they have this environment of success,

00:13:16.680 right? This is this, they have, um, you hear a lot about mastermind group, you know,

00:13:21.460 a lot of the most successful people in the world and the planet in any industry are surrounded by

00:13:26.080 either on purpose or it just happens. But if you're, if it's not just in your life, the listener,

00:13:30.880 you've got to create these, these, this group of people around you. It's like a mastermind group.

00:13:35.260 You know, Jim Rohn said that you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with.

00:13:39.900 Well, you know, change the people you want to, that you're spending the most time with. If you need

00:13:44.980 to bring in more successful people in your life, you got to create that. So for me,

00:13:49.120 it's creating that environment means, um, getting around the right people. It means

00:13:53.020 filling, listening to podcasts like order of man on my drive to work instead of, I like that. Yeah.

00:13:58.000 Instead of ESPN radio, I love ESPN radio, but you know what? Listening to your podcast is,

00:14:03.660 is more powerful for me and, and more life changing. It's going to help me get closer to my

00:14:07.640 goals than listening to ESPN radio. Um, and, uh, and, and, and then choosing the words that you say

00:14:13.140 to yourself, you know, I have a mantra that I repeat to myself every day on my drive to work and,

00:14:17.520 uh, just building yourself up, controlling that self-talk. So those are things that successful

00:14:21.820 people do. And then when you do those, you know, you, once you get on that path and you feel like

00:14:28.000 you're on the right path, you have a clear path in front of you, you know, your path, then,

00:14:32.960 then you, you instantly feel more successful because you know where you're going, you get clarity and

00:14:37.760 you, um, you know, you just sleep better at night and you wake up more passionate, excited about

00:14:41.620 the day. Even if, even if you're going to, you know, you're still facing the same struggles as

00:14:45.220 everybody else, but you face them with a different mindset. So I have a ton of men that I talk with

00:14:49.700 on a daily basis who are asking me questions like, what should I do to be successful? And I love how

00:14:54.420 you lay that out because I think once you identify your values and you put yourself in the right

00:14:59.520 environment and all of those things, you have those goals that you talked about, the actions almost

00:15:03.840 come naturally. Like it's almost like self-fulfilling once you get your head right, it seems like.

00:15:08.720 Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. Like, you know, I, I was, uh, give you an example. I was, I was voted

00:15:14.700 the team's hardest worker, my sophomore, junior, and senior year on my college wrestling at UVA

00:15:20.280 in Virginia. And, and, you know, it's like, well, how I look back, I'm like, how in goodness name did

00:15:26.620 I ever put myself through the amount of pain and struggle and torture that I did to achieve the,

00:15:32.180 you know, it's the highest level. And it's like, well, it wasn't that hard at the time because

00:15:36.320 I knew my values. I knew, I knew what my values were. I knew what my goals were. So therefore,

00:15:41.820 when I faced struggle and defeat and setbacks, it's, I could overcome them more easily than

00:15:47.520 other people. Not easily, but it's still hard. I mean, I mean, there's still pain and struggle

00:15:52.100 and days where the self-doubt was just overwhelming. But when you're clear, like you said, clear on those

00:15:58.020 things, you can overcome those, those obstacles and setbacks and failures that are just inevitable.

00:16:03.440 Everybody's going to have them.

00:16:04.260 What are some of the struggles that you dealt with as a college athlete? And then how does that

00:16:08.300 translate over into everyday life now that you're, you're, uh, you're a business owner and then doing

00:16:13.880 your things now?

00:16:14.740 Yeah. Yeah. Uh, it was just, I'll give you two examples. Um, the first one is self-doubt. I mean,

00:16:22.660 the self-doubt that I had in my life was just, it was exceeded the, uh, uh, the, the necessary amount

00:16:30.820 that I should have had because I had had success prior to that. But when you just, um, when you have

00:16:35.860 that self-doubt, it just holds you back, you lower your dreams, you lower your goals. And I've

00:16:39.740 been doing that my whole life. And, and then once I realized, you know, it's okay to believe in dream

00:16:44.440 big and go for it at the highest level, then everything changes. So that was my biggest struggle

00:16:50.020 as a self-doubt, but I'll give you a physical challenge that I had. And I had, um, fairly severe

00:16:55.100 asthma. Uh, I'd be the guy over in the corner, you know, half an hour before my match breathing

00:17:00.320 into a machine. It's called a nebulizer for anybody out there who has asthma or has kids

00:17:04.860 who have asthma. Um, and they, and they know what a nebulizer is, but it's a, this machine

00:17:09.100 that you put a medicine and you breathe into it. And, and I had to struggle with this stuff,

00:17:12.880 man. And, and I would, um, struggle a lot of days in practice with my asthma. Um, and honestly,

00:17:18.820 my mindset became, well, you know, so I'm having, you can have an asthma attack on a scale

00:17:23.900 from zero to a hundred, you know, so an asthma attack, they're not all the same, you know,

00:17:27.340 you can have mild ones and I would have a lot of mild ones during practices. And I decided

00:17:33.520 to look at them as, um, as a benefit for me as this sort of unfair advantage, because my

00:17:41.360 body had to work harder to do the same things in practice that everybody else had to do.

00:17:46.820 Like I wasn't taking in as much oxygen, but I was doing the same things as everybody else.

00:17:50.540 And so therefore my body was, I was actually getting in better condition.

00:17:53.900 You know, because, uh, you know, because I was struggling more to, to make it through

00:17:58.560 practice than the other guys. And, uh, so therefore my body had to, to use oxygen more

00:18:02.680 efficiently. And that's basically what you're doing when you're, when you're conditioned,

00:18:05.260 doing any kind of conditioning. Um, so it's, you know, that change in mindset that helps,

00:18:09.840 but those are two obstacles that, uh, certainly as I had.

00:18:12.400 No, no, it's interesting. You're the second athlete in two weeks that I've talked with that

00:18:16.040 has had that exact same issue and pretty close to the same response. And you both have,

00:18:20.000 both have achieved on a very, very high level. So that's pretty interesting to hear.

00:18:23.480 Yeah. That's interesting.

00:18:24.580 What, uh, keeps men from believing big? I mean, that's one of the things you said is,

00:18:29.520 is you came to this realization that it's okay to dream big and to go after these things,

00:18:33.920 but I don't think a lot of people feel that same way. And so I'm really curious as to your take on

00:18:39.080 why men don't dream big and take those big actions and those big risks in their lives.

00:18:43.860 Yeah. We're programmed for it, Ryan. You know, we're, you know, from a young age,

00:18:48.300 we're programmed to, to pull back and to, you know, um, to lower our goals and to lower risk

00:18:55.180 really, you know, I mean, it's really programmed into us from our caveman days is, you know,

00:18:59.620 we're programmed to lower risk and lower pain and, and avoid pain and struggle. And, um, yeah,

00:19:05.820 I've, I've, I've a good friend who was, uh, the national NCAA national soccer player of the year,

00:19:10.780 uh, you know, we're, we're classmates. And I remember talking to him once that we would both

00:19:16.220 finished our career. He was actually in med school at the time. And I was, uh, um, I was the assistant

00:19:21.060 wrestling coach. And he said, do you know, Jim, he said, you know, if you're willing to go through

00:19:25.620 enough pain and struggle, uh, what do you say? Um, pain and suffering, you, you can achieve anything.

00:19:32.760 And I thought about that. I'm like, that's so true. Now, most people are, we, we want to avoid it,

00:19:38.060 right? We want to avoid failure and pain and struggle. So we sort of take this,

00:19:42.160 I don't want to say the easy way out, but we, we, we lower our goals a little bit because those are,

00:19:46.580 you know, there's a little bit, maybe a less, um, uh, struggle to, to get there. But when you

00:19:52.140 think about it, you know, if you, if you take your goals and you double it or triplet or quadruplet,

00:19:57.320 you still have the same 24 hours in the day, right? You're still, everybody listening to the show

00:20:02.300 works really hard. You're not going to talk to anybody who said who's, especially who's listening to

00:20:05.620 this show. You know, people who listen to this show are, are successful. People want success,

00:20:09.720 want more, who are working hard. They're investing time into themselves. So we're talking to the right

00:20:14.320 audience here. So they're the kind of people who already work hard. So if you're, you don't have

00:20:19.860 any more hours in the day, if you double your goals, but the phone calls you're going to make

00:20:24.500 might be to a different person. The, the things that you do with your days are going to be a little

00:20:31.340 bit different. The thing you're going to have the same number of hours, but you just do different

00:20:34.480 things. Setting your goals higher doesn't actually take more time or effort necessarily, but you just

00:20:40.620 do different things. So set your goals higher. And, and, and if you set your goals big enough, I mean,

00:20:45.680 it's really hard to completely fail. I mean, I'll be honest, my, my goal in college is to be a national

00:20:50.200 champion, but I failed and I was still on all American, all Americans top eight. If you finish in

00:20:54.520 the top eight, you're all American. But had I not set my goal to be a national champion, I probably would

00:20:58.200 have never been an all American. So set your goals big, set your goals high, but it's against our 0.94

00:21:03.960 programming. It's against our programming. So you have to have sort of a process that allows you

00:21:09.460 to create this mindset and sustain it. You know, Zig Ziglar said something, I'm going to, I'm going to

00:21:14.180 butcher this quote, but he said something like they says, uh, some people say that motivation doesn't

00:21:18.500 last, but that's why we need to do it every day. Just like, you know, neither does, oh, he says,

00:21:23.500 neither does taking a shower or taking a bath. That's why we recommend it every day, you know? And so you

00:21:29.180 have to continually motivate yourself. And that's what I'm talking about with this, this environment,

00:21:33.440 creating a mastermind group, having a mantra that you repeat to yourself, listening to podcasts,

00:21:38.240 they're going to build you up and inspire you and, and cause you to think bigger and take bigger

00:21:44.200 actions on a daily basis. You can't listen to the show and go, okay, well, great. I'm good now.

00:21:49.260 Now I'm not going to do it. I'm upset. You know, my mindset's good. Now you got to do this on a

00:21:53.020 regular basis. So what are some of the, you know, quote unquote, pain and suffering that,

00:21:58.080 that you are currently putting yourself through that's helping you get to the next level? Because

00:22:02.660 I know you have big dreams now. So what are some of the things that you do? Yeah. Um,

00:22:07.340 so when you look at these things, you know, they're, they're pain and struggle that it's just

00:22:11.700 getting outside of your comfort zone. But again, they're easier because I'm very clear on my values.

00:22:16.120 I'm clear, very clear on my goals. So these things that used to be hard for me or might seem hard to

00:22:21.780 maybe the listener are very easy actually once you get clear on your values and your goals. So

00:22:27.480 a couple of examples is, um, is I wake up at 5am every day and I used to, I remember I graduated

00:22:34.300 from college thinking I was afraid to get a job, like a real job in the real world because I didn't

00:22:39.080 want to have to wake up early every morning, go to work. And so I'm not a morning person, but I get up

00:22:46.240 with filled with energy and passion every single morning because it's the time before my kids wake

00:22:52.580 up and before the family gets gone where I have peace and quiet. And it's this sort of magical,

00:22:57.980 mystical time of day where you can just get so much done and, and you know, you have this fresh new day

00:23:02.700 in front of you. And so that's one thing. So I get up at 5am every day. Um, I work out on a very

00:23:08.260 regular basis and, um, that's, I think painful to a lot of people. Um, I, I eat right. I've, I've

00:23:14.660 health goals, which, you know, involves my, not only my workouts, but my diet. And so I have a,

00:23:20.500 I, by no means a very, really strict diet. So I'm pretty comfortable with my health, but you know,

00:23:24.440 I eat the right foods and I, I've, you know, I've, I gave you one small, uh, almost ridiculous

00:23:29.000 example. It's like, uh, I used to drink cream and sugar on my coffee eventually. So I cut out sugar

00:23:34.060 and then eventually I cut out cream and now I just drink my coffee black. And it's like,

00:23:37.220 it was really hard to go through those two weeks of just making that change. But now I'm taking in

00:23:41.760 less calories, less sugar, less fat every day in my diet. Um, just doing things like that. And,

00:23:47.060 uh, but really, you know, it's being disciplined, creating these, these peak performance routines.

00:23:51.720 You know, you look at successful people and they have these peak performance routines. They have

00:23:55.180 these habits that, that are just common among a lot of successful people. And it's like getting up early,

00:24:01.820 uh, working out, um, being clear on your daily goals, things like that, being just discipline,

00:24:07.760 executing discipline on a daily basis. So what are some of the things that you're doing?

00:24:12.040 Well, I'm really curious. Let me back up here because we hear a lot about morning rituals and

00:24:15.960 morning routines. I, in fact, I just did a YouTube video on how to create the perfect morning routine,

00:24:20.180 but we very rarely hear anything about the end of the days. You're winding things down or settling

00:24:25.440 things down for the day. Are there some things that you're doing at the end of the day to

00:24:28.680 kind of clear out your day and think about what's ahead? Yeah. The, the biggest thing that I do at

00:24:34.120 the end of my day and my, and I don't do this at night rather it's, it's, it's at the end of my

00:24:38.320 work day. And every day at four 30, I have an alarm that goes off on my phone and it's the reminder to

00:24:43.240 set my goals for the next day. I'm, I'm deeply in, you know, I'm ensconced in my work at the time.

00:24:48.840 And I know what I haven't had time to do today and what I need to do next. Um, and it's much easier to

00:24:56.440 do that when you're in the moment, when you're, when you're in your work day, as opposed to

00:25:00.860 starting the next work day and going, okay, what do I need to do again? So I actually set my work,

00:25:05.680 set my goals for the next day, uh, the day before. So this afternoon I'm going to set my goals for

00:25:11.480 tomorrow and it, uh, and it really helps me, uh, just start my day with, you know, with high

00:25:18.140 productivity. And I always ask myself, what's the most important thing? So if I, if I can only get

00:25:21.800 three things done on my to-do list tomorrow, what are the three things that when I walk out of the

00:25:26.980 office, when I leave, that are going to make me feel most satisfied with my work day? So that's,

00:25:32.760 that's, that's the biggest thing for me in terms of productivity and getting things done.

00:25:36.860 So Jim, I want to jump back to something you said in the very beginning of the interview,

00:25:39.580 you talked a lot about why wrestling resonated with you so well and, and why you valued wrestling

00:25:44.980 over some of the other sports that you've played. Are there some specific lessons that you take

00:25:48.860 from wrestling and then have applied in your life? And what are some of those lessons that we can

00:25:52.360 apply in our lives? Yeah, geez, you know, probably a ton, tons. And, and wrestling isn't, you know,

00:26:00.760 I think wrestling is just a great, you know, a great arena in which to learn life lessons because

00:26:07.580 it's an individual sport, because it's so physical and painful and challenging in so many ways. Um, and

00:26:14.720 you're out there alone by yourself, but really, I mean, any sport, I, gosh, my, my one son, uh,

00:26:19.700 he's seven, he plays piano and it's the same thing for him. I, I tell my kids, I, they know this quote

00:26:26.280 off by heart. If I said it, if you, if I said the first couple of sentences or a couple of words of

00:26:30.120 it, they would repeat the rest of it. But I tell them, you get tough by doing tough things. You get

00:26:34.440 tough by doing tough things. And what does tough mean? I mean, tough means being resilient and being

00:26:39.800 disciplined and, um, being able to get up when you get knocked down and, and being able to do

00:26:46.160 things that are challenging or otherwise, you know, something you don't want to do. And, and

00:26:50.900 that's, I mean, you can get tough from playing piano. You know, I tell my seven year old, it's

00:26:54.200 like, you've got to practice, practice piano when you don't want to, you know, if you want to get

00:26:58.080 better at it, which he does. And he plays baseball and basketball and wrestling. He, you know, if you

00:27:04.200 want to get better at piano, you've got to go through the same pain and suffering that my buddy,

00:27:07.900 my soccer player, but it was telling me about, you know, he's like, you got to go through that

00:27:11.220 same pain and suffering, whether you're learning to play piano or wrestling or football or trying to,

00:27:17.860 um, you know, whatever it, you're trying to excel at anything, you know, becoming a, trying to master

00:27:23.280 anything. And, and so that's what, what I've taken is, is hard work. You know, that's the biggest

00:27:28.740 thing. And I've had people, you know, tell me, Jim, you're just wired differently than the rest of us,

00:27:33.260 you know? And, and I, I think, you know, I take that as a compliment because my goal is to outwork

00:27:38.080 everybody every day. Um, and when you do that, you're just going to, you're going to get better.

00:27:43.820 And that's the secret to success is, you know, people, you know, always looking for a formula

00:27:47.960 or a secret. It's like, it comes down to hard work, you know, successful people really work hard.

00:27:53.460 Now you're going to find the, every once in a while, you're going to find that person who doesn't work

00:27:56.780 hard, but they're successful. And it's like, that's the anomaly, you know, that's the one in 10,

00:28:01.080 that's a one in 100. The rest of the successful people out there, their nose is the grindstone

00:28:06.280 and they work hard. And that's the biggest thing I take from athletics, but, but also just the

00:28:10.660 process of goal setting of struggle and failure. You know, I, I gave a Ted talk. If you Google

00:28:19.280 Jim Harshaw Ted talk, it'll come up, but I did a Ted talk called why I teach my children to fail.

00:28:25.320 And a lot of it is based around my experiences, uh, failing in the sport of wrestling. And that's

00:28:32.600 the, you know, it's one of the biggest thing that you take from athletics is like you fail,

00:28:35.740 but you, you learn from those failures and you get up and you apply those to your life. And so,

00:28:40.280 so most people don't stop long enough to think about how do I apply those lessons from when I was

00:28:46.520 an athlete or a wrestler or otherwise, and how do I apply them to my life today? Okay. Well, I,

00:28:52.460 you know, I didn't make that last sale. I was trying to make a big sale at work and I didn't

00:28:55.900 make it or, um, gotten an argument with my wife or, you know, uh, whatever the case may be, you know,

00:29:02.380 there's a million things that, you know, failures and things that go wrong in life. You know, you get

00:29:05.900 in a car accident, you know, and it's not your fault, but you get blamed for it and, and you got

00:29:09.760 to pay for it. You know, like there's all these things in life. It's like, well, hold on. I've dealt

00:29:13.740 with this kind of thing before. What's the best way for me to handle this? You know, what's,

00:29:19.380 what's the best way for me to overcome this obstacle, this failure, this setback,

00:29:23.440 this challenge in my life and apply those lessons that you've already learned. You know,

00:29:27.540 what would your coach tell you? You know, that coach, that person you respect the most

00:29:31.240 that, that, you know, that molded you, you know, what would that person tell you? How would they

00:29:36.600 tell you to handle it and handle it that way? No, that's great advice. Have you read the book

00:29:40.700 resilience by Eric Greitens? I've not, but I've heard of it and I got on my, uh, my reading list.

00:29:45.600 Yeah. It's definitely one worth reading and it talks a lot about what you're talking about is

00:29:49.800 going through struggle and hardship in life and how to overcome that and what type of value and

00:29:53.540 what type of man you need to be to overcome some of the trials and adversity of life. I think you'd

00:29:57.840 really enjoy it. Yeah. I'm going to write that. I'm going to star that one next to my, uh,

00:30:02.300 yeah, you bring list. So let's go back to one of the things that you said that intrigued me is

00:30:07.240 you said some people have told you that you're wired differently. Let's talk about that. Do you think

00:30:11.300 that there are certain people that are wired for success or do you think this is something

00:30:14.840 everybody can achieve? Do some people have to work harder at it? Tell me a little bit about

00:30:18.600 the differences in personalities and how that relates to their ability to succeed in life.

00:30:23.320 I used to believe that the success was for other people. I used to believe it, you know,

00:30:27.860 when I was in high school as a rest, I keep, you know, I'd go back to my wrestling career because

00:30:30.880 that was just such a focal point in my life that taught me so many lessons. But I always used to just

00:30:35.300 think that success was for the other guy, you know, and I had training partners who went on to be

00:30:41.340 national champions and state champions in high school. And I always just kind of thought

00:30:45.160 deep down, that's for those guys. I'm just, I'm not at that level. And, and, but I've realized that

00:30:52.700 success can be for anybody, for anybody, but you've got to do these certain things, you know,

00:30:57.960 and I look at the successful people that were around me then who, who I didn't, you know, I didn't

00:31:03.000 have my goals and dreams set as big as them. And I look at the things that they had in their life

00:31:06.220 or why they were more successful. It's like, well, first of all, you know, a lot of them,

00:31:10.380 and I honestly, a lot of my worked as hard as them. So I had the same work ethic and some of them,

00:31:14.560 I, maybe I even worked harder than them, but I didn't have the same self-belief. You know,

00:31:19.940 I had this self-doubt that was just more overwhelming than it was justified to have. And so,

00:31:26.920 you know, when you understand, you know, especially as adults now, we can look at this and go, okay,

00:31:31.420 what are my values? What are my goals? And how do I create this environment of success around

00:31:39.320 myself? And, and once you do those things, anybody can be successful. So you can be an introvert or

00:31:45.540 an extrovert. You can come from a poor family or a wealthy family. You can have been a wrestler or a

00:31:52.140 piano player, any walk of life, any type of person. You can be young, you can be old, you can live in a

00:31:58.120 city, you can live in a, in a rural area. I mean, it doesn't matter. Success comes in all shapes and

00:32:03.920 sizes and success is defined differently by different people. You don't, success doesn't

00:32:08.500 mean making a million dollars a year. We always want to go straight to that wealth goal, you know,

00:32:13.000 but I said before, you know, you got to start with the relationships because if relationships are

00:32:17.100 right in your life, you're going to be happy. I mean, that's the, that's the baseline. You know,

00:32:21.520 when your relationships are right, we, you know, we want to, we want to make more money, but it's like,

00:32:25.560 wait, maybe I just need to take my wife out for dinner a little more often or tell her I love her 0.95

00:32:29.560 or, or, or fix my relationship with my parents or children or whatever the case may be. But get,

00:32:35.760 you know, work on the relationships in your life and then work on growing yourself and building

00:32:39.540 yourself and your personal skills and, you know, uh, you know, become a better marketer, learn how to

00:32:45.060 build a website, you know, get, uh, read a book on sales, uh, or, or read a book on, on self-help,

00:32:51.040 you know, um, you know, having those self goals and then having those health goals.

00:32:54.700 So if you're making the right moves in one area of your life, maybe you're trying to improve

00:32:58.640 relationships with your family or your wife, or you're trying to increase your business,

00:33:02.040 all of those other things are naturally going to improve because you're doing the right things

00:33:05.400 and their principles, they apply to every walk in every area of life.

00:33:08.820 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the formula is the same, you know, it's be, it's understanding what you want

00:33:14.500 and, and setting the goals and identifying the people and organizations that can help you,

00:33:19.400 you know, understanding what failures and setbacks you're going to have along the way,

00:33:22.660 you know, putting a deadline on all those things. Yeah, they apply to, you're right, man.

00:33:26.800 They just, they apply to anything in your life, Ryan.

00:33:28.940 So I'm really fascinated with this idea of adaptability when it comes to wrestling.

00:33:32.100 One of the things that always intrigued me when I was wrestling is that there was guys that I would

00:33:35.620 look at across the mat and think, Oh, I could whoop this guy, you know, I'm stronger, I'm bigger

00:33:39.220 than this guy. And all of a sudden he's got me in a hole that I can't escape from because he's learned

00:33:43.220 how to use the strengths and the abilities that he has. Are there some things and some abilities

00:33:48.260 and strengths that you've seen men be successful with in life that maybe are hidden or, or aren't

00:33:54.060 immediate strengths that men can use to be successful in their lives?

00:33:58.200 Yeah, I would say, you know, when, you know, when you look at it, when you look at successful

00:34:05.060 people, it tends to be the people who, who can overcome failure more easily and, and who are more

00:34:12.740 willing to go through that pain and suffering, like I talked about that are, are successful.

00:34:16.960 So if you can get knocked down and get back up that you, you're going to, you're going

00:34:21.660 to be much more likely to be successful versus if you get knocked down and, and you don't

00:34:26.040 get back up or you lower your goals when you get knocked down and say, okay, well, I'm

00:34:29.340 going to lower my goals a little bit. I'm going to change my goals. But, but you listen

00:34:32.340 to any, you talk to or listen to or read the books of any successful people. And it's, you

00:34:36.880 know, gosh, Abraham Lincoln, you know, he failed like seven times, you know, in, in politics,

00:34:42.120 you know, he's defeated seven times in politics before he won an election. You know, I

00:34:45.660 mean, he had a nervous breakdown before he became president of the United States. I

00:34:49.040 mean, this guy, he overcame obstacles and setbacks and struggles before he became president.

00:34:53.500 And that's just a, it's, it's a common theme among successful people. And, you know, I've

00:35:00.640 always been a type of person who I feared rejection, you know, and then I got a sales

00:35:04.340 job at one point where I had to make like 20, 30 calls a day. Actually, no, I was making

00:35:08.600 closer to 40 phone calls, cold calls a day for a short time. And it's like, oh man, did I go

00:35:13.020 over, I got over my fear of rejection so easily with that job. It's like I was outside of my

00:35:17.360 comfort zone, but now it's a skill that I have and it's made me a stronger, better person

00:35:21.840 because of it.

00:35:23.060 Well, Jim, we're running down on time today. So I've got a couple more questions as we

00:35:26.240 wrap up. The first question I have for you is what does it mean to be a man?

00:35:31.100 Gosh, great question. Um, for me, I, I, I know you didn't have this father figure in your

00:35:36.880 life. So I really feel blessed to have this father figure of my, my father, my dad in my

00:35:42.040 life. And, and, you know, he's, he, you know, he's a man's man, you know, I mean, he's, he

00:35:47.560 hunts and fishes and, uh, you know, he makes homemade beer and wine. He was a, you know, he's

00:35:52.680 a retired construction sheet metal worker. Uh, he, he was a boxer who grew up in, you know,

00:35:57.140 in the city of Pittsburgh, you know, blue collar city. And, and, uh, he was a boxer in

00:36:01.380 the army and, you know, he's just, he's just the toughest person I know, you know? So I kind

00:36:06.180 of look at that as, as a big part of being a man is, you know, like I even saw on your

00:36:10.240 website, you know, you know, it's like, I think it was eight skills. Every man must 0.89

00:36:14.720 master. And one of them's like changing your own oil and, and, uh, you know, uh, manly

00:36:19.500 skills, like how to swing a hammer and basic electrical and plumbing and things like that.

00:36:24.020 And it's like my dad nailed every single one of those, you know, but, uh, but it's also

00:36:29.260 this idea of self leadership, you know what I mean? Being a leader, first of all, but if

00:36:34.860 you're not in a leadership position, you're still a leader. People look to you and you can

00:36:39.580 be a role model, whether you're leading from in front or behind, you know, leaving

00:36:43.560 from the middle or whatever, but, uh, you know, leading yourself, being disciplined

00:36:48.280 to do the right things, you know, to, to be the best person you can be not only for

00:36:54.020 yourself, but for the people who are within your sphere of influence. That's, that's, I

00:36:58.960 would say, I've never been asked that question, but I think that would probably be my, my best

00:37:02.640 definition of being a man.

00:37:04.260 Jim, if somebody wants to connect with you and learn a little bit more about wrestling with

00:37:07.300 greatness and some of the things that you have going on, how do they connect with

00:37:09.740 you?

00:37:10.340 Yeah. Jimharshaw.net. Jimharshaw.net is my website. Probably the best place to go. And

00:37:16.140 really everything there, I, I, I, my target audience, at least at this point is wrestling.

00:37:21.120 It's going to be expanding here down the road, but everything there is really relevant for

00:37:25.260 anybody who's ever strived to be good at anything, whether it's wrestling or any other

00:37:29.960 sport or playing an instrument or just learning to master a skill. If you've gone through pain

00:37:35.760 and suffering, trying to achieve at any level, then everything on my, you know, my website,

00:37:39.680 my content is, is, is very relevant for you. So it's jimharshaw.net. And then on Facebook,

00:37:45.000 jimharshaw.net. If you just search jimharshaw.net on Facebook, you'll find me there. I tweet most

00:37:52.040 actively on my handle, Wrestle Greatness. So without the second E in Wrestle. So W-R-E-S-T-L 0.53

00:37:59.540 Greatness. So Twitter wouldn't let me spell the whole thing out. So Wrestle Greatness without

00:38:04.540 the second E on Wrestle. Those are the best ways to find me. Awesome. Jim, I appreciate your insights

00:38:09.340 and you being on the show and taking your time to be with us today. Thanks again. I appreciate

00:38:12.380 your time, Ryan. Thanks. Good luck with the show. There you go, guys. Big thanks to Jim for taking

00:38:17.460 time out of his day to share some ideas around what again is inevitably going to happen to us. And

00:38:21.660 those are the setbacks. So I hope that this gave you some inspiration. If you're dealing with some of

00:38:25.720 those things right now, failure does not define us unless we make the decision to let it. Let's get out

00:38:30.960 through this week. Work through the pain. Work through the struggle and suffering and accomplish

00:38:34.800 greatness in our lives. Now, if you need to pick up any of the resources or want to refresh or review

00:38:38.780 of what we talked about today, go to orderaman.com slash 022 for the show notes. Also, if you enjoyed

00:38:44.840 the show and or learned something new, head over to orderaman.com slash iTunes. Show us some love.

00:38:50.280 Show the support for the show by leaving us your rating and review. Now, remember to connect with me

00:38:55.200 this week on Periscope so you can access the live streaming videos that we'll be sharing on how to

00:39:00.620 become a better man. Now, I cannot even begin to tell you how excited I am to have next week's guest

00:39:05.300 on. His name is Mr. Brett McKay. And if you don't know who that is, I really don't know what to tell

00:39:10.600 you. He runs the largest online men's magazine. And we have a great conversation about what it means

00:39:15.900 to be a man in today's world and what all of us can do to live the lives that we want. Exciting stuff,

00:39:21.000 guys. I hope you tune in for that. Please subscribe to the show if you haven't already. Guys,

00:39:24.600 I look forward to talking with you next week. But until then, take action and become the man you

00:39:28.420 were meant to be. Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. If you're ready to take charge

00:39:34.020 of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be, we invite you to join the order at

00:39:38.780 orderofman.com.

Order of Man - August 18, 2015

OoM 022： Overcoming Struggle and Achieving Greatness with Division I, All-American Wrestler, Jim Harshaw

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