Brett McKay with The Art of Manliness joins me to talk about how we as men can return to our roots and recreate some of the rites of passage we once participated in, some common struggles we re all working through, and what it takes to be a man in modern society.
00:08:41.580Everyone talks about rites of passages where it's like, yeah, you go through a lot of primitive tribes, primitive, let's say traditional to BPC.
00:08:47.960They have rites of passages where a boy will go through it.
00:08:51.040They learn the secrets of being a man and then they have to go through maybe some sort of physical ordeal.
00:09:25.380Nowadays, we don't really emphasize those too much anymore.
00:09:28.600And I think as a consequence of decline of rites of achievement, decline of rites of passages, people or a lot of men, you have a lot of men who are in their 20s or 30s, sometimes even 40s and 50s thinking, am I really a man?
00:09:46.620And the difference between men and women is that women, as the anthropologists would say, is that, well, women have sort of this physical manifestation that they've become a woman, right?
00:09:56.440So when they have their first period, they are a woman.
00:10:00.620They can have children and that's done.
00:10:03.800They don't need this sort of rite of passage or this ordeal because they already have one built in.
00:10:09.160Men have to create one for themselves.
00:10:11.540You know, I think rite of passage is important.
00:10:13.400There's a few examples in my life of things that I consider that I've gone through.
00:11:22.520So yeah, I think that's the big thing.
00:11:23.760We just don't have time for it anymore in our modern world.
00:11:27.540So if it's important, what are some things in your example, maybe even in your own personal life that you've gone through that seems to be a rite of achievement or a rite of passage?
00:11:34.620Or what are you seeing other guys going through or creating that can bring some of that back?
00:13:37.180If you're a part of a faith, there's probably some sort of rite of passage there for you, if not a built-in sort of organic rite of passage.
00:13:44.560I'm sure their church is trying to create men's groups where they can create that sort of environment for that.
00:13:49.200And there's also just fraternal organizations that are already there, men's groups that you can join.
00:13:53.520And then you can be even more creative and create it for your own family, rite of passage for your son when he reaches a certain age.
00:14:02.100I have an acquaintance, his rite of passage for his son, or one of them is when his son turns 10, his son can go anywhere in the world.
00:14:26.940And then when he gets there, I guess he's going to teach him some sort of stuff that's age appropriate about being a man.
00:14:32.860What is the draw for men in some of these rite of passages?
00:14:36.060If they're making more of an effort, concerted effort to bring some of these back, is it the draw of accomplishing hard things, getting over tough stuff?
00:14:44.980Because I look at the things in my life that I look at rite of passages.
00:14:48.040One was finishing up military basic training.
00:14:50.600Even some of these like Spartan events that I've done in the past are in a way for me rite of passages because I have this sense of accomplishment when I get done.
00:14:58.060Is that the draw or is there something else to it?
00:15:00.060I think there's something else to it, just a deeper psychological yearning.
00:15:05.320They want to feel – they want an event that is imbued with meaning that signifies I'm making progress in life.
00:15:14.320And we don't really have that nowadays.
00:15:15.920So I think that's what they're looking for.
00:15:17.960So I want to go to this because we hear a lot – and I hear this a lot and I even think to a degree there's a lot of truth to it –
00:15:24.260that there is a threat against masculinity and that masculinity is going by the wayside or it isn't as stressed or as valuable or as important.
00:16:14.340And today we live in America and 1% of the population serve in the military.
00:16:20.280And of that 1% that serve in the military, like 1% will see combat.
00:16:24.460And the reason of that is technology has been able to, I don't know, exponentially increase the force that we're able to apply with just a few people.
00:16:40.900I mean, you know, you hadn't – in ancient times, you had to go out and hunt or, you know, work hard in the farm and all that stuff.
00:16:48.480Well, then you can just go to like the Whole Foods across the street and your meat's nicely packaged.
00:16:53.740You know, like you don't need to really be a provider in that sort of visceral sense anymore.
00:16:58.800Sure, you have to earn money and things like that.
00:17:00.360But a lot of the jobs today, right, that are in our information economy, I mean, they really – most of them can be done by a man or a woman equally well.
00:17:13.000And, you know, a female accountant could do probably just as well of a job as a male accountant.
00:17:17.200There's no – we don't have a lot of jobs today that require physical brute force.
00:17:22.900Of course, we do have – there are blue-collar jobs, trade jobs that require – but those are on the decline because we're shifting to an economy that doesn't require – or doesn't need that as much anymore.
00:17:34.760So when people say there's like this threat against – I mean, it's – I don't think it's like an active thing.
00:17:44.820We even get – this is kind of getting to sci-fi stuff too.
00:17:48.080You can even get to like the procreator realm, right?
00:17:50.740Science has made it possible they can take a stem cell from a female, create a sperm cell, and then create – and then they can basically join that sperm cell with an egg to create a human being.
00:18:04.740Now, they haven't done this because that would be, I think, illegal under –
00:19:27.040No one picks up because it's not speaking to – the idea is that, well, we have this new world where we don't need really manly men anymore.
00:19:56.480But I think a lot of men, that's not going to happen.
00:19:58.780So what do you do for these guys who you don't have an ideal of masculinity that they can aspire to, that motivates them, that motivates them to contribute to the larger society, to contribute to their family?
00:20:12.960And so what I've been trying to do with the art of manliness and what you are and other websites you're trying to do is like create that vision that resonates with men who want to feel masculine.
00:20:23.940They want to do something with this inherent talent, this inherent drive that they have to do something good.
00:20:31.240And we're trying to provide that for them.
00:20:33.460You know, you've got – obviously, you've got hundreds of thousands of followers and subscribers and people reading the information that you're putting out.
00:20:39.720What is a reoccurring trend or concern or thought?
00:20:43.380What is most of the feedback that you're receiving that guys are struggling with?
00:20:48.160You know, it just depends on where they are in life.
00:20:51.860I mean, I think a lot of guys are just looking for direction in life, right?
00:20:56.080Because we live in a world where we don't really – there was a time in our culture where you had direction.
00:21:01.600You had a church giving you direction.
00:21:03.780You lived in a small community that provided you direction, what you should do.
00:21:07.640We don't have that anymore for the most part.
00:23:40.700So, what is – obviously, I think Poop Like a Samurai, I think you've mentioned, is probably like your most popular one.
00:23:46.420Are there some other ones that come out that stand out as being extremely popular?
00:23:50.100Yeah, I mean, it depends on the way it's popular.
00:23:51.640So, like if you're just looking at like shares, I mean, there's the fun ones like how to gird up your loins, how to undo the damage.
00:23:59.240I mean, just sort of really practical things that I think cuts across genders.
00:24:03.360But the stuff that whenever we get letters, that stuff we're really proud of, like the articles that guys cite to that really help them out.
00:24:11.420So, we did a whole series last year called Simper Virilis.
00:24:17.780We did a series early this year about the life of Winston Churchill and how he can teach you to have a truly awesome adulthood and sort of how to imbue your life with some romanticism.
00:24:27.800Did a series – we did a post last year that just went gangbusters was you have to be a man before you can be a gentleman.
00:25:15.360But he sort of decided to live this strenuous life and signed up to the military and wanted to go to the front – volunteer to go to the front lines, escape from war prison or something like that or escape from enemy lines.
00:25:30.280And then just what he did in his political life is phenomenal.
00:25:33.980Another guy, Jack London, I think he really kind of inspires Thumos in men, Thumos' sort of passion in men.
00:25:42.620There's a great biography by a guy named Earl Labor.
00:25:48.160I mean, this is a guy who – same thing, self-made to the utmost.
00:25:52.500Like he started – he came from a poor family, taught himself, self-educated, and just put himself and just went on some great, amazing adventures.
00:26:01.680See, another guy that I – just like anyone from like the World War II generation, we have a contributing writer on the site, Marcus Brotherton, who has done a lot of books with interviews with World War II veterans.
00:26:15.200Those guys just have a ton of lessons that I think they can impart to us younger generation.
00:26:20.340Yeah, and it seems like just based on what I've seen and what you're doing and some of the books that I've read on my own, those men that are really inspirational that we look up to have overcome a lot of trials, overcome a lot of adversity.
00:26:31.680And got past that and like you said, just went through a rough life and overcame those things.
00:26:36.360Does that seem to be a reoccurring trend?
00:27:04.040A lot of people will ask me or say to me, you know, what is your business look like or what does this look like in 10 years?
00:27:09.660And if I'm being truthful and honest, the answer is I don't know.
00:27:13.240And I don't know that we should know, right?
00:27:14.920Because I think if we clear that or we lay that path too clear out ahead too far, it limits us on what things that we can do or explore or experiment.
00:27:24.940It's – goals are great but they can also be obstacles to new goals or new ventures.
00:27:32.620So yeah, I mean I think it's good to have a plan.
00:27:35.560I always tell that when people like, you know, young guys in particular, they write letters like, I don't know what I want to do with my life.
00:27:51.820But, you know, I still went to law school, still finished and then this thing came up and I still – you know, when I started the blog, I kept going to law school, didn't quit that because that would be dumb.
00:28:04.120And then this option came up and then because of the site, other opportunities have come up and I followed that.
00:28:10.680And so, you know, maybe there will be one day where because of changing taste or the changing ways people use the web that, you know, content-based websites will sort of decline.
00:28:20.220If that happens, I'll just figure something else out.
00:28:22.440And you've learned the skills and you develop the skills along the way that you'll be able to adapt or move into whatever else.
00:28:27.300As long as you're keeping those options open and exploring new paths and passions, I think you'll able – you're able to do that.
00:28:32.660Yeah, I mean you're developing capital, not just financial but skill capital, social capital.
00:28:37.780And the only way you can develop that capital is if you're out there in the marketplace acquiring it.
00:28:43.020You know, from the outside looking in, I think a lot of people can look at you and other successes and think that you guys have it all figured out.
00:28:49.700And it's a trap because we start getting into this comparison game of, you know, look at Brett or look at this person and they've got it all figured out and they know exactly what they're doing.
00:28:56.800I'd be really curious about the things that you're struggling with as a man and what you're doing to work and overcome some of those obstacles or challenges.
00:29:03.460I mean like just trying to be – like figuring the parenthood thing out has been a challenge because basically I think being a parent, like you have to be sort of like a psychologist, like an expert psychologist because each kid is different and you're trying to figure out how to motivate them and how to teach them these important stuff and develop character in them.
00:29:34.060And then my own personal struggles, like I'm still working with trying to like not be distracted as much and not surf the internet when I should be working, not trying to be moody, peevish, as my wife would say.
00:31:29.500Such valuable information from a man that has been studying the world of masculinity since 2008
00:31:34.100and has thousands of articles, videos, and resources available to help you and me succeed as men.
00:31:39.480Again, if you need to pick up any of the resources that we talked about today, go to orderofman.com slash 023.
00:31:44.740If you enjoyed the show and or if you learned anything new, I would ask humbly that you head over to orderofman.com slash iTunes.
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00:32:00.720Now, remember, again, connect with me on Periscope this week to access all the live streaming videos that we'll be sharing on how to become a better man.
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00:32:11.980Obviously, our level of health says a lot about who we are as men, but it will also help us succeed in life and business and family
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00:32:26.920Guys, I look forward to talking with you next week, but until then, take action and become the man you were meant to be.
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