Order of Man - OoM 027： Growing Up, Getting Unstuck, and Learning to Fail with Paul Angone

00:00:00.000 I'm stuck. I'm in a rut. I'm in a slump. I'm not satisfied. These are all phrases I hear a lot

00:00:05.740 from the men I connect with on a daily basis. The reality, though, is that there isn't much

00:00:10.060 that separates men who feel stuck from those that seem to have it all together. The successful have

00:00:14.420 just learned how to implement a few tactics and strategies that are often overlooked. In this

00:00:19.060 week's podcast, I talk with Paul Angoni, the author of All Grown Up, about some of those skills,

00:00:23.880 including finding your anchor, connecting with other men, and using your failures to your

00:00:28.460 advantage. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:34.220 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time. You are not

00:00:40.120 easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who you are.

00:00:47.300 This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call

00:00:52.620 yourself a man. Men, welcome back to The Order of Man. My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the

00:00:58.340 founder of Order of Man. Glad you're back here with us this week. I hope that you had a great

00:01:02.220 weekend and got what you needed to be done. Now we're back into it, and I'm going to be having

00:01:06.580 a conversation with a man that will be a huge help to you, especially if you're not excited about this

00:01:12.480 week and also the course of your life. More on that in a second, but I first wanted to give credit

00:01:17.080 where credit is due, and that is to all the men who have left reviews for our show. I really appreciate

00:01:22.580 the vote of confidence, your support, and encouragement as we continue to get more conversations

00:01:27.580 your way. Our Facebook group is still going strong. It's growing daily. I'm telling you

00:01:33.300 guys, if you are looking for a place to surround yourselves with other like-minded, successful

00:01:37.140 men, you need look no further. 550 men having conversations about masculinity and hobbies and

00:01:43.740 struggles, bathroom etiquette, and so much more. So head over to facebook.com slash groups

00:01:49.780 slash order of man to request access to the group. Now, if you're exercising, driving, or hiding

00:01:56.200 in your office cubicle, and you can't really take notes right now, just remember that you

00:01:59.580 can head over to orderofman.com slash 027 and get all the resources, links, show notes,

00:02:04.800 and some of the best quotes from today's episode. Now, let's introduce you to my guest, Paul Angoni.

00:02:10.820 Paul is a national speaker, the best-selling author of All Grown Up, Searching for Self, Faith,

00:02:16.180 and a Freaking Job, and 101 Secrets for Your 20s. He's also the creator of the popular website

00:02:21.140 allgrownup.com and signaturesauce.com. He specializes in helping companies attract,

00:02:26.920 retain, develop, and harness the best strengths of the millennial generation. He has over 10 years

00:02:31.720 writing and speaking and engaging millennials. He also has a master's degree in organizational

00:02:36.100 leadership, and he is here to talk with us all about getting unstuck, finding your anchors,

00:02:40.860 and turning failures into successes. Paul, thanks for joining me on the show. I'm excited to have

00:02:46.100 you here today. Hey, thanks for having me on, Ryan.

00:02:47.640 Ryan. So I've gone through this book a little bit, all grown up, and I'm excited to talk with

00:02:51.680 you about that. But tell me a little bit about the premise behind the book and why you're doing

00:02:56.160 what you're doing and why you decided to write this book. Yeah. So I've, gosh, I've been doing

00:03:00.860 this for about 10 years now. And really, I started because I felt like such a failure throughout a

00:03:06.920 lot of my 20s. And I just felt stuck and trying to figure out, how do you figure out the what now

00:03:11.840 of the rest of your life? And people always asking you, what are you going to do with your life?

00:03:16.080 What, you know, what are you passionate about? Those kinds of questions, I always felt so

00:03:19.440 overwhelmed by them. And so I started writing about it, researching, trying to figure out what

00:03:24.120 are the secrets? How do you figure out what to do with your life? And then that journey has taken me

00:03:29.020 through a master's program, through books, through launching a website called allgrownup.com. And

00:03:35.280 grown is as if you're groaning, you know, in pain, all grown up, because that's what it felt like,

00:03:40.120 kind of that growing pains, you know, it's emerging into adulthood. And how do you figure out,

00:03:44.860 okay, how do I be intentional about my life, start choosing my life, and not just be dying some slow

00:03:50.860 death, working in a job I hate? Yeah, we run across that quite a bit is where we're the guys

00:03:56.980 that are communicating with us. And part of what we're doing are running across that where they

00:04:02.320 just feel stuck, they feel trapped, they don't feel excited or enthusiastic about their life. And so I

00:04:06.480 think we'll have a great conversation about some of those topics today. Yeah, awesome.

00:04:09.500 So were there some things in your life, you said you felt like a failure? Were there some things in

00:04:13.480 your life that caused you to believe that? Was it just a culmination of everything? Or were there

00:04:18.220 some specific instances? Yeah, I don't, you know, I think throughout college, I was definitely that

00:04:24.140 guy that played sports, that had a lot of success, you know, is playing baseball in college and football

00:04:30.520 and just, just things always seem to go well for me. And I was always poised to go do the next big

00:04:36.600 thing. So when I left college, I was kind of ready for that trajectory just to take off.

00:04:41.720 You know, I climbed all the right steps, I'd gotten the right grades, done the right internships,

00:04:46.460 done whatever. And I felt like now am I ready? My life is ready to start. And I'm ready to go make

00:04:50.900 a difference or make an impact or make a lot of money, or just be successful, however that looks.

00:04:56.540 And so when I left college, you know, and the only job interview I could get was for a used

00:05:02.620 airplane parts sales assistant, which I didn't know existed. And I walked into that interview

00:05:09.440 pretty freaked out, obviously, because it's your first real job interview. But also I was freaked

00:05:13.900 out because I was realizing that I'd been flying around in planes that have been using used airplane

00:05:18.740 parts. And it was just like paradigm started exploding, right? You know, and then in that journey took

00:05:24.880 me through temp agencies and working at a call center and just working a bunch of jobs that I

00:05:31.420 felt like, man, is this what I signed up for? What's wrong with me? You know, where's all those

00:05:36.920 big dreams and big goals and the passion? And I'm going to go make a difference. I want to go change

00:05:40.920 the world. But I feel like the world is just changing me. And I have no clue how to get out of

00:05:46.060 this. And so I felt very lost. And so it was really that sense of, yeah, feeling like I'm failing at

00:05:52.980 this and struggling with it, but then also not being afraid to talk about that struggle.

00:05:59.180 You know, and I see that a lot, especially with men, this feeling of, man, I'm struggling a lot

00:06:03.620 with these questions. I don't feel like I know what I'm doing, but I don't really want to talk

00:06:07.940 about it with my friends because they're all doing these amazing things. And I don't want to be the

00:06:11.180 guy that's struggling. So we kind of internalize it, which only makes it worse.

00:06:16.140 Right. And what I think is, I don't think our friends really have it figured out either.

00:06:19.520 I think they put on a good front. So they're not talking about it. And you're not

00:06:22.720 talking about it. And they're pretending that they have it figured out. And you're pretending

00:06:25.960 you have it figured out. And no one really has it figured out.

00:06:28.300 Right. And that just becomes such a isolating and insanely unhealthy way to go start going

00:06:34.260 through life. You know, so I even had those moments. I'm sure maybe you've had this too,

00:06:37.620 or people that are listening, where you have that friend that starts, one of your best friends,

00:06:42.380 they call you and you see it ringing. And you're like, man, I know he has some cool stuff going on in

00:06:48.320 his life. Or he wants to talk about what's going on and he's exciting. And I don't have any cool

00:06:52.640 update to talk to him about. I don't feel like I have anything to really share. So maybe I'm going

00:06:57.080 to let this one go to voicemail. Because I just, I don't, I feel, I don't want to even talk about it.

00:07:01.560 You know, and so we just start isolating ourselves. And I've called it, I call it the new OCD

00:07:06.700 that I think is really killing this generation, especially. And what I mean by the new OCD is

00:07:12.600 obsessive comparison disorder. And I think especially now with social media and online,

00:07:18.460 this online space where we're all kind of crafting this image of our life to make it appear really

00:07:23.900 awesome. It becomes this obsessive comparison disorder where you're always looking at your

00:07:28.040 friends going, why are they living the life that I thought I was supposed to live? And why am I such

00:07:33.080 a failure? When really we are all are struggling, but we're all putting these PR spins on our own

00:07:38.080 Instagram feeds or Facebook profiles.

00:07:40.840 It's funny you should say that. I actually had a friend, he texted me or shot me a message

00:07:44.440 somewhere and said, Hey, how are things going? It looks like from the outside that you've got

00:07:48.800 everything figured out and all is well. And I just chuckled to myself. I'm like, yeah, it looks like

00:07:53.280 that. But you know what? My wife and I get into arguments. I yell at my kids. Work sometimes sucks.

00:07:58.240 And so I go through the same things that you do. How do we as guys start talking about this? Because 0.92

00:08:04.080 if I'm understanding you correctly, having the conversation is probably the first step to getting things

00:08:08.120 figured out. Yeah. You know, and that's honestly why I started writing my book and my newest book

00:08:12.460 all grown up, uh, which in the subtitle searching for self faith and a freaking job is really, it was my

00:08:19.820 most vulnerable way. I could tell my story and touch on a bigger story to just try to open up a conversation.

00:08:26.160 And so I'm really big on, and I think our generation is really big on authenticity.

00:08:32.020 You know, we always hear that. I want something that's authentic. I want something that's real.

00:08:35.820 I want something that's true and honest. And I'll have people, you know, typically you'll have an

00:08:40.360 older person say, well, how do you be authentic? You know, I want to be authentic so I can engage with

00:08:44.700 the younger generation or whatever. And I'm like, well, if you want to be authentic, you got to be

00:08:49.840 courageous enough to share your struggles. Right.

00:08:52.740 And really that's what the base of authenticity is. It's getting behind the mask, getting behind

00:08:58.800 the, uh, the show, so to say, and say, Hey man, this is what I'm struggling with. And it allows

00:09:04.740 that safe space to start opening up to have a real conversation. So I guess you have to be willing to

00:09:10.960 go first in a sense. Why are we scared of that? Is it egos or is it something else? I think it's a,

00:09:16.780 I think, I think that's part of it. Right. I think to, to admit your struggles is admitting that

00:09:22.560 I don't have it all together. And I don't think, especially as men were prone to want to admit

00:09:29.860 that. I think we were kind of hardwired in some ways, maybe it's the way we were raised to be a

00:09:35.260 leader and to have it figured out. And I'm the one that has the answers. I can't be wrestling with

00:09:40.160 questions and I can't be open about that because I got to put up this front that I have it all

00:09:45.200 together. Right. And so then it, but, but then it just, it spirals and it becomes such an

00:09:50.240 isolating experience. And this generation, especially, uh, the studies are showing that

00:09:54.780 they, you know, we spend more time alone than any other age group right now, other than the elderly,

00:10:00.340 you know, 75 years and above, but like, especially 20 something spend more time alone than any other

00:10:07.180 group. And so I don't think we're having a lot of those authentic real conversations because we're

00:10:11.820 not willing to say, Hey, I'm struggling. And here's what's really going on in my life.

00:10:16.020 Is it an amazing, I heard a quote one, one time where it said it's, it's incredible how easily

00:10:21.080 that we connect can connect with somebody across the globe, but it's so difficult for us to connect

00:10:26.020 with somebody across the table. Yeah. Gosh, that's so true. What do you suggest for men that are

00:10:31.480 struggling with this question or all of us to, cause it sounds like community is a big element of

00:10:36.760 this and having other male friends who you can connect with and be authentic and genuine with.

00:10:41.620 And I know some of my best friends are the guys that we can talk about all the crap that's going

00:10:45.840 on in our life. Not everything that's going perfectly. Are there some things that we can

00:10:50.080 be doing to connect with other men that to create these communities or friendships, those authentic

00:10:55.980 friendships? Yeah. I think it's first kind of what we're talking about. It's first, um,

00:10:59.200 being comfortable enough and knowing that it's a healthy thing to not have it all figured out.

00:11:05.200 Now, really it's, it's actually quite, I would say it's a quite negative trajectory to be on.

00:11:10.040 If you feel right now that you have it all figured out, because I think we always need to be

00:11:14.000 learning. And I think, you know, sometimes I remember myself and this is a roundabout way

00:11:19.420 to answer your question, but I know for myself, I'd always be, I'd always be wishing I could make

00:11:24.100 it. You know, I just want to, I want to make it. I want to get there. I want to arrive. I want to

00:11:29.160 make it. And then I started realizing like that whole mindset is completely off. Why am I wanting

00:11:35.120 to make it? What does that even mean? You know, and if I feel like I've made it, isn't that just going

00:11:39.900 to mean that I'm going to stop and I'm going to just get comfortable and feel like I've arrived.

00:11:44.040 So why go any further? So maybe this feeling of not making it is the best feeling I could have

00:11:50.600 because I, Oh, I should, should I ever feel like I've made it? You know? So I guess it's first

00:11:54.860 couching that in the, in the sense of, if you feel like you haven't made it, if you feel like you're

00:12:00.260 on the struggle, you're on the path, you're still climbing, whatever it is, that's okay. And that's

00:12:05.320 natural. And that's actually the healthy path to be on. So then to create community around that,

00:12:10.480 I would just say, you know, just being intentional with your group of friends, whatever it is. And

00:12:15.500 you're maybe it's through an online space or it's actually real people. And you're meeting for coffee

00:12:20.240 just to start having kind of fellow travelers on this path where you're all encouraging each other

00:12:26.700 in the process where it's like, Hey, we're going to be real with each other. We're not going to try

00:12:31.380 to posture or pretend that, Hey, I've got a bigger bank account. Look at this deal. I closed. We're

00:12:36.800 not going to, we're not going to make it about that. We're going to make it about, Hey, we're all

00:12:40.480 in this together. How do we go along this journey together? Literally is like, you know, as your

00:12:45.140 partners in a climbing a mountain, you really have to depend on each other or you're going to fall to

00:12:49.920 your death. It's kind of that same feeling of let's really lean in on each other and find a way to

00:12:54.740 where we can really meet and have an intentional time to talk about what's going on in our life.

00:12:59.420 Well, it's interesting is I'm reading a book called the way of men, uh, by Jack Donovan.

00:13:04.120 And he talks about the way of the men is basically the way of the gang. And if you go back 10,000

00:13:08.620 years, we, as men traveled in tribes and helped each other out. And certain, certain, uh, members

00:13:14.100 of the tribe had things that they were good at and others were good at something else. And then all of a

00:13:19.020 sudden we became individualized. And I think that's where we're at right now. What's in your mind,

00:13:23.380 the shift between, or, or from being part of a tribe and a community to now we have to go at it

00:13:29.920 alone, right? That's what culture and society tells us. Yeah. You know, I don't, gosh, I think,

00:13:34.480 I mean, it's definitely kind of hardwired into, if we want to go big, you know, macro view, I think

00:13:39.840 it's definitely for, especially for United States, it's kind of hardwired even into our cultural

00:13:45.220 narrative, you know, kind of being these lone Rangers, you know, it's kind of that guy, you know,

00:13:50.960 it's, it's those movies that we'd watch. It's that it's the hero. It's the guy that is on the

00:13:55.720 horse that is going at it himself. He's saving the world. He probably has one sidekick that's there

00:14:01.180 for humorous purposes to make jokes, but really they're not doing much. They're messing up more

00:14:06.140 than anything because the hero is the one saving everything. You know, it's that lone Ranger

00:14:10.700 mentality. And I think for us, it is kind of that feeling of, you know, pick yourself up by the

00:14:16.400 boots, bootstraps, all the Western cliches we have, and I'm going to go forge this path alone.

00:14:22.920 And then our whole lifestyle is kind of fitting into that independent, individualized narrative,

00:14:29.420 you know, where you're doing all these things by yourself and you're trying to prove yourself and

00:14:33.660 you feel like you're fighting against, you're even in a competition with other men, you know,

00:14:38.440 other men and other people trying to take your resources, but you're doing it all alone.

00:14:43.680 And so I think it's just hardwired into our culture that we're just such an independent,

00:14:48.580 we're not a community-based culture. You know, it's all about, let me get my house, my job,

00:14:53.920 get in my car where I can drive alone to my job. Maybe I interact with some coworkers,

00:14:59.180 but I'm going to sit at my desk. And it just, it just, sometimes it doesn't foster that idea of

00:15:04.240 authentic community as being an important thing.

00:15:07.880 Right. And I think the first step is just recognizing that, right?

00:15:10.240 As I started to recognize that I was, you know, you almost feel like there's noble in

00:15:15.240 something and going at it alone, right?

00:15:17.220 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:15:18.500 And so as I started to recognize that and, and, and be more aware and surround myself with guys

00:15:23.920 like you and start this podcast and have conversations and get in masterminds, I mean,

00:15:28.020 I can't tell you how exponentially, uh, how high that's increased, not only my business success,

00:15:35.420 but my family life and my relationships and just my overall sanity.

00:15:39.100 Yeah. I mean, we have to have, I mean, it's that idea of mentorship or apprenticeship. You know,

00:15:44.060 we should have people that are in our lives that are mentoring us and we should have people in our

00:15:47.660 lives that we're mentoring too. And I think there's definitely this feeling like I want to go do it

00:15:52.840 by myself. I want to be a self-made man, right? That's kind of hardwired into that narrative and it can

00:15:59.400 become so problematic. And I think one movie, one story that really hit this home for me that I watched

00:16:03.940 and it literally, I mean, it just was so profound for me. And it's, um, the book, uh, and then the

00:16:09.720 movie and based on the true story, but into the wild, you know, the, uh, which is just that, that

00:16:15.100 profound story of the college student who graduates and it's the true story, you know, where he's going

00:16:19.700 to go and have a great Alaskan adventure and he's kind of kind of shun society and he's going to go do

00:16:25.660 it all by himself. And it's kind of like him becoming a man in a sense, but he does it in such

00:16:32.120 isolation and he does it without the proper training. He just wants to do it. And he wants

00:16:36.160 to figure out, can I be a man or not? That then the ending, if anybody's, you know, it doesn't end

00:16:41.740 up well for him because he had nobody there. If he just had one person there, it would have saved his

00:16:46.520 life. Well, so what's the balance? Because I know that there is good things about being able to be

00:16:52.900 self-reliant and self-sufficient and figuring out things on your own. There's advantages to that.

00:16:57.280 So what's the balance between being a strong and rugged independent male and then being able to

00:17:04.140 surround yourself with people who are going to help you get to where you want to be and vice versa?

00:17:09.600 Yeah. I think it's just trying to strike that balance, you know, and I was even just thinking

00:17:12.720 of another true story, the movie, what was it? 168 hours or it was, it was basically that, the,

00:17:19.020 the mountain climber guy who got stuck in the rocks and had to, ended up, you know, tearing off his own

00:17:25.480 arm to get free. And I felt like that was a really profound one too, because he was basically

00:17:30.080 realizing that he was, he was so prideful that he, he would just go do it all by himself and he

00:17:36.200 wouldn't even tell people where he was going to go. And his mom called earlier that day and he didn't

00:17:40.660 even pick up the phone to just say, Hey, heads up, I'm going to go do this. So I think we can still be

00:17:45.920 independent. We can still go and strive and we have to have that time alone to really wrestle with who

00:17:52.140 we are and where we're going and those kinds of things. But we at least have to allow enough

00:17:56.600 people in our world that there's people, there's some checkpoints along the way. There's some people

00:18:02.040 that we're checking into. We're not just doing it all by ourselves because I'm not going to let

00:18:06.160 anybody into this because they're just going to drag me down. Well, that's kind of an arrogant way

00:18:11.960 to go through life and probably not healthy. So it's that, it's that mix. It's that mix of,

00:18:17.160 Hey, yeah, I'm going to have to do a lot of it. I can't depend on somebody else to make my life

00:18:20.600 happen. It's got to happen because I'm going to be intentional about it. But how can I have some

00:18:25.240 checkpoint relationships, people that are going to see the inside that I'm going to allow in and

00:18:30.200 see the nitty gritty stuff that I'm maybe afraid to show? Well, so you've been doing this for,

00:18:35.120 it sounds like a decade or so, which is, it's crazy when you say it like that, right?

00:18:38.940 It is. Yeah. When you're 32, it's like, well, that's like a third of my life, but it feels like a long

00:18:44.140 time. Yeah. So when I think about the conversation we're having, I wonder what some of the decisions

00:18:51.300 men are struggling with. Like I can think of, you know, career wise or college or dating and who do

00:18:58.260 I marry and all of those things. Are there other questions, other life altering decisions that men

00:19:03.480 are struggling with in your experience? So any other one, you know, I think a big one is that idea

00:19:09.240 of, you know, I think it's a big one is, is career is what am I going to do? Uh, and I think

00:19:14.560 especially again, you know, we're just hardwired to want to do something and that's amazing. So it

00:19:19.120 is that question of what am I going to do with my life? And I definitely work with a lot of guys

00:19:23.600 that are just feeling stuck in that job that feels like they're dying that slow death and they're not

00:19:31.140 living the life that they felt like they were meant to live. And so for a lot of those people,

00:19:36.160 you know, men and women alike, it's starting to be courageous enough to start asking yourself some

00:19:41.900 hard questions about, okay, what do you really want and how are you going to get there? And what

00:19:46.620 changes do you need to start making so that you're not just stuck in this life that you don't want to

00:19:53.500 live? And that can be a tough process to start going down. But that, that's one of the biggest

00:19:57.900 things that I see is, is people wrestling with the fact of this is not the life I want to live.

00:20:02.940 And I don't want to live. I don't want to be stuck in a job for 25 years and work up the corporate

00:20:08.080 ladder to then find that I'm miserable when I know I'm miserable right now. And so I think as a

00:20:14.380 generation, we don't want to start asking the hard questions when we're 50. I think we really are

00:20:20.420 wanting to ask the hard questions now. What is the mental block in your experience? Because I know a lot

00:20:27.060 of guys that are out there and I'm sure that are some listening right now that say, yeah, this is me.

00:20:31.480 I do not want to be where I am today. And they know that. So why are they not making the change

00:20:38.220 to get to where they want to be? Yeah, that's a great, that's a great question. That's the

00:20:42.960 million dollar question, right? It's why, why do some of us change and why some of us, why do some

00:20:47.260 of us not? There's, there's one quote that I really love. It's from a book called Deep Change.

00:20:52.360 And it is basically, uh, to change is hell, but to not change is also hell. When you change and you

00:21:01.280 go through the experience of the hell of change, that's the hero's journey. But when you choose not

00:21:07.100 to change, that's the path of slow death. So it's kind of this idea that either way is going to be

00:21:12.600 really hard, right? But do you want to, and when I read that, I'm like, well, do I want to pick slow

00:21:17.840 death hard or do I want to pick the hero's journey hard? And we even, even when you look at that

00:21:23.680 narrative of the hero's journey, you know, putting in the context of story. And since I'm a writer,

00:21:29.480 I love thinking about these kinds of metaphors. He's no, in every movie that we love, there's

00:21:32.840 always the end of act two. There's always that, that what they call where basically everything

00:21:37.040 falls apart. You know, everything goes wrong. Uh, their friends die. Their plans are blown up.

00:21:42.320 You know, they're not going to win. Everything is, it's like, it's the all is lost moment is what

00:21:46.160 they call it. Right. And, and the hero always experiences an all is lost moment before the

00:21:53.180 dramatic rise. And so I think for some of us, we feel like we're in the desert or we're in the

00:21:59.700 wilderness or nothing has gone as we planned. And we feel like we're really stuck in that. And I guess

00:22:04.740 we just, we just have to make that choice of, do I want to start easing into a comfortable life

00:22:10.460 that I know I don't really want, but at least I have a nice paycheck or am I going to take the

00:22:16.740 risky path where I'm going to start making some choices that might, might not make financial

00:22:21.680 sense right now. It might be a risk in time or in relationships, but I'm going to start making some

00:22:26.740 hard choices of, no, this is really what I want to pursue. And I'm going to find a way to do it.

00:22:31.320 And whether it's getting up at 5am to do it, whether it's working a part-time job. So I have

00:22:36.840 some more time to do what I want to do. It's finding the space to pursue that bigger thing that

00:22:41.740 you, you feel like you should be pursuing. I know this is really difficult to answer

00:22:45.800 because we have to talk about it in such a general context, but what are the men who have been

00:22:51.660 successful in making that leap and getting out of that rut that they're in? Are there like one or two

00:22:58.300 or three very specific steps or examples or stories that you've seen in the past where men have

00:23:05.160 made that change in there and they feel like they're where they want to be now?

00:23:08.940 Yeah. You know, I like to put it in the context of, I think people need to, I think most successful

00:23:14.700 people have figured out what their signature sauce is. So they've clarified their signature sauce.

00:23:21.480 And what I mean by that is I think each person is created with a unique mix of ingredients,

00:23:26.120 a unique flavor that they offer to the world that no one else does. And I think successful people,

00:23:32.180 men and women, they have started identifying and honing in, defining and refining their signature

00:23:38.180 sauce. And what I mean by that, so one of the ingredients that I would say is this is how you

00:23:43.060 start finding that is what are your core values? What are your soul values? What are values that

00:23:53.600 you will not give up? When you're, when you're making a hard decision, you fall back on these

00:24:00.020 values as one of your key drivers for how do you make a decision? And again, values can be a broad

00:24:06.300 term. So it's hard to even get down to the nitty gritty of what is a value. But like for me,

00:24:10.900 one of my values is authenticity. I had a strength, let's say I have a strength for communication

00:24:17.580 where I like to speak. I like to talk, but I was never very good at a sales job.

00:24:24.440 I would try to do sales jobs, but I would just be terrible at it. And I feel so anxious.

00:24:28.360 And I started figuring out, well, well, really, even though this is utilizing a strength,

00:24:32.940 it's going against one of my core values, which is authenticity, because I feel like I'm selling

00:24:37.760 something that I don't believe in. Right. So there was a real conflict there. So then I started

00:24:42.300 figuring out, oh gosh, I really have to do something that I feel is authentic for me to be

00:24:47.620 really utilizing my strengths of communication. So they really work together. So in that idea of that

00:24:53.840 idea of that, uh, the metaphor of signature sauce, it's, it's starting to hone in on some of those

00:24:58.460 ingredients and really identifying those and putting word sets to those. So you know why you're

00:25:04.460 doing what you're doing. You're not just doing it random. You're not just pursuing one idea or

00:25:09.580 another idea because you're trying to make money. It's really rooted more in who you are

00:25:14.940 and what you're good at. And what need do you see in the world that you feel like you want to address?

00:25:21.800 Because I think that's another big part of people that actually take action

00:25:25.240 is it's typically, it's tied to a need. It's some need that they see that makes them so mad

00:25:31.940 or frustrates them or breaks their heart or whatever it is that they're like, how can,

00:25:36.620 how can nobody be doing something about this? Interesting. Yeah, that makes sense.

00:25:41.200 You know? And so it's not, it's, so it's bringing the internal, it's bringing what you're good at,

00:25:44.580 what you're passionate about, your values, your strengths, your personality, these type things.

00:25:48.340 But then it's also typically tying it to a need. And then that's when it becomes powerful because

00:25:53.060 then when you hit the obstacles and everything falls apart, like for me, when I was trying to

00:25:56.860 write a book and get it published and this book took me about 10 years to get published.

00:26:01.280 This one that just came out. Yeah. All the, all the dreams of being a bestselling author and being

00:26:07.400 on a speaking tour or whatever, those all quickly went away. And the only thing that kept me going

00:26:12.780 was this feeling of this need that 20 somethings are struggling and I want to help them. I want to

00:26:18.060 be a voice to encourage and give them insight. Well, and also from the outside looking in,

00:26:22.700 and I know this is true about my life is, you know, you and I talked about it. You felt like

00:26:27.880 a failure and you came out of that with a unique set of skills and experiences and struggles that

00:26:33.040 now you can pass on to somebody else. Exactly. And typically, and what I often say is that failure

00:26:39.300 doesn't ruin your story. Failure helps you write it. So the key is failing without calling yourself a

00:26:46.700 failure and really embarking on some strategic attempts to fail. So it's not just, it's not just

00:26:54.740 being a failure being that you're getting drunk every night and you feel miserable. You know,

00:27:00.000 you got to make some changes so that you don't feel that way. But I'm talking about failures and

00:27:05.060 failing as if you, you attempt something that's greater than what you think you can accomplish

00:27:09.200 and it doesn't quite work out. Well, that was a good failure. You know, that was, that was a good

00:27:14.120 failure attempt because now you can tweak it and try again because the possibility for greatness

00:27:20.400 and embarrassment both exist in the same space. Yeah, that's true. And if you're not willing to

00:27:27.020 be embarrassed, you're not willing to be great. Great point. And I don't, and for myself, I don't

00:27:32.220 want to be embarrassed. I don't want to get up on stage and look like an idiot. It's much easier to 1.00

00:27:37.580 be the guy in the third row who has all the cynical, sarcastic, funny remarks about the person on stage,

00:27:42.740 right? Sure. Of course. And I think as guys, we can sometimes get stuck in that place of being the guy in

00:27:47.720 the third row who can pick, you know, all the things that the guys on stage are doing wrong,

00:27:51.980 but are we willing to get up on stage and do that? Yeah. That's just a defense mechanism,

00:27:56.180 right? Yeah, exactly. Of why you're not doing it. Exactly. I love that you said authenticity

00:28:01.020 because I think, and I've had this conversation before and you've heard it on this podcast is where

00:28:04.980 guys will say, you need to find your values. And the knee jerk reaction is, well, I value my time and

00:28:10.920 my family. It's like, yeah, of course, you know, we all do. That's let's get a little deeper than that.

00:28:15.380 And so I like that you talk about authenticity. Are there some other values that you see

00:28:20.980 men have that really they're able to anchor on and move towards whatever it is they're trying to

00:28:26.540 accomplish? I think for a lot of guys, we definitely value this sense of, you know, I think for me,

00:28:32.780 especially, I'll just put it in my terms because I want to talk for all guys. I think especially for

00:28:37.460 our generation, we value, we do value wanting to have good relationships. And especially I think as

00:28:45.000 some of us get married and have kids, we want to be around and we want to be involved. Yeah. And

00:28:51.780 you know, I don't want to be working a 70 hour a week job and never see my family type thing. And so

00:28:58.760 that's a real value of mine is I want to have healthy relationships with the people that are

00:29:02.860 important to my life. So that value is going to help instruct some of my decisions and

00:29:09.660 opportunities that I take. And it's a constant weighing that of, is this going to be contradicting

00:29:16.660 a value of mine? Because it's going to take me away from my family for years and I won't see them.

00:29:22.320 So how do I balance that with this feeling of, I want to do something big, but yet I need to keep

00:29:28.480 in mind those healthy relationships and that value of mine.

00:29:32.020 That makes total sense. Always comparing it towards your values and that's going to be your barometer

00:29:36.000 or your gauge for where you're going. Yeah. That, that should be your, your, yeah,

00:29:39.960 your base, your anchor, because that's what it comes down to is if you start contradicting your

00:29:45.180 values, you're going to begin to sabotage yourself and it's just not going to work. You're going to

00:29:51.180 start feeling anxious. You're going to start feeling that depression, whatever it might come out,

00:29:55.640 whatever, however it manifests. But I think a lot of the time it's because you're contradicting some

00:30:00.300 core values in yourself that you know are important to you, but you've just chosen not to make,

00:30:05.220 you've chosen decisions that, that go away from those.

00:30:08.980 And that, that's a frustrating thing. I can't remember the quote. I'll have to try to find this,

00:30:12.480 but the most frustrating time in life is when your life is inconsistent with your vision or your

00:30:20.140 character or your perception of the way your life should be. That's the most frustrating type

00:30:24.440 life, part of life for a man. I can't remember that quote. I'll have to look it up.

00:30:28.660 Yeah, no, but yeah, that totally, that definitely makes sense.

00:30:31.120 Are there some strengths that we as men tend to overlook when it comes to figuring out what we

00:30:37.160 want to do in life? And then more importantly, taking that next step?

00:30:40.600 Man, as far as strengths go, if you're going to take that next step, I think it comes down to kind

00:30:45.340 of what I said before is it has to be a strength of being willing to be vulnerable and being willing

00:30:50.640 to look embarrassed. And, and that's not a strength I would say for us. So I would say it's,

00:30:55.420 it's just a willingness to, to take a risk and, and look like an idiot at times and not be so hung 0.98

00:31:03.800 up on what will people think about me as I pursue this. Yeah. The best example I've come across is 0.98

00:31:09.100 that as I've got three kids and my youngest, she's almost two. It's funny because she's learning to

00:31:15.160 talk and she's putting together words. And most of the time you have no idea what she's saying,

00:31:19.160 but she's not concerned about what you think of how she says a certain word. Exactly.

00:31:23.360 She's just mirroring you and trying to figure it out. And same thing with walking, 0.72

00:31:27.620 same thing with everything in life is that way. The more we get concerned about what people think,

00:31:32.400 the less likely we are to succeed, or it's just going to take us a whole lot longer than if we

00:31:36.120 just went full bore with it. Exactly. Exactly. And it's just that realization that honestly,

00:31:40.620 people don't really care. Right. Because they've been there and, and they're just,

00:31:44.320 you know what they're, you know what Facebook profile people look at the most? It's their own.

00:31:48.920 Right. They're not obsessing over your Facebook profile or over, oh, you haven't posted a cool

00:31:55.500 picture in a while, or, oh, you don't have the vice president marketing title anymore. You know,

00:32:00.520 people don't really care. They care about themselves. So it's, it's almost a freedom in

00:32:04.860 a sense of, wow, I can live for myself because it doesn't matter, you know, and I need to have the

00:32:09.560 few, few close people with me that can give me encouragement, that can give me advice,

00:32:13.200 that can speak into my life, but I don't need to be living and creating and trying to do this for

00:32:18.860 some vision of what I think others expect of me, you know, or think, you know, as a writer and having

00:32:26.200 two books out there, I get tons of crazy comments. I get people saying so much stuff and I'm sure you

00:32:32.740 see it too, you know, and just, and it's like, I can't start creating for them. I can't start

00:32:38.120 creating for the critics. I can't start changing who I am or what I think is important. I have to

00:32:42.980 stay true to that. So I think for any guy that feels stuck is, will you have the courage to be

00:32:48.220 embarrassed? And will you have the courage to start being faithful in the small? So start working

00:32:54.120 into your life, some small steps that you can start taking that you're going to start consistently

00:32:59.500 doing, because it's not going to be a huge, big, amazing thing at first. It's really just a bunch of

00:33:06.160 small steps that you start taking. And maybe it's, I'm going to get up at 530 in the morning and I'm

00:33:11.120 going to start pursuing my dream. I'm going to work for two hours before I go to my full-time job.

00:33:16.080 You know, have you read, uh, the compound effect by Darren Hardy? Yes. Yes. I have read such a great

00:33:21.340 book. And it's talking about what you're saying is that it's not big, huge steps. It's things that

00:33:26.280 you're doing on a daily basis every single day, literally for the rest of your life. And before

00:33:31.300 you know it, you'll look back and realize, look how far you've come without even, you know,

00:33:35.420 taking that huge leap. Exactly. Exactly. And, and I think if you've, if you've rooted these steps

00:33:41.440 in more of who you are, if you've basically, if you've started figuring out what your signature

00:33:46.860 sauce is, I think that'll make you push further and it'll make the steps seem more worth it

00:33:52.400 because you'll know, you'll understand why am I taking these steps? You'll understand the need that

00:33:58.960 you're pursuing or the values or your strengths or your personality or, um, your story or, you know,

00:34:05.240 these different things. And the more you can help identify that now, the more motivation you'll have

00:34:12.480 to keep making those steps when no one cares, when it starts getting into the, I can't believe I'm doing

00:34:19.240 this time, you know, and when that alarm hits and you're like, I don't want to do this anymore.

00:34:23.720 Or if you've rooted it more and more in your signature sauce and what you're really about,

00:34:29.160 that will give you more, uh, motivation to keep moving forward.

00:34:33.800 One of the questions that I've thought about as I've followed your work and I've read your books

00:34:37.260 is the balance between growing up, right? And maturing. If we hear that term, be mature,

00:34:43.980 grow up, get a job, get a life, all those things. And then just having fun with life too,

00:34:50.320 because we can't be all serious all the time, right? We've got to have some playfulness. We've

00:34:55.120 got to have some childlike enthusiasm and optimism, optimism about the future. What's the balance there?

00:35:02.100 Yeah, I think that's kind of that question is why I made my website all grown up, you know,

00:35:07.080 is kind of that playoff of when are we a grownup? When do we go from growing to grown? What are the,

00:35:13.900 what are the adult markers? Who, who decides when you're an adult? And I think, I think you're right.

00:35:18.520 It is finding that mix where it's both, you're growing and you're grown at the same time.

00:35:25.260 And I think people that are really successful, they've mastered that where they're, they're

00:35:29.480 taking parts of what it means to be an adult, you know, the responsibility factors, the taking

00:35:35.560 ownership for my life, you know, I'm not dependent on my parents, you know, those kinds of things.

00:35:40.060 But then there are also still factoring in some of those kinds of kid-like attributes of growing,

00:35:44.580 of basically being a lifelong learner, having, you know, having what, you know, in the book mindset,

00:35:50.280 you know, what the professor writes about there of having a growth mindset, which I think is a very

00:35:55.820 kind of childlike thing, you know, like what you're talking about with your kid, your two-year-old,

00:35:59.820 and I see it as well in my, in my children, is they have a growth mindset. They're trying to figure it out

00:36:05.320 and they're willing to look stupid while they do it, uh, because they don't have a fixed mindset, 0.99

00:36:11.020 which I think for a lot of adults, when you get to quote-unquote adulthood, you can start having 0.96

00:36:16.200 a fixed mindset, which is, uh, this feeling of, I know what I know and that's as much as I can know

00:36:22.180 and I'm not going to grow further than that.

00:36:24.760 Why do we do that?

00:36:26.240 Gosh, I think we start getting it hardwired into this, this feeling of, I don't want to fail.

00:36:30.640 And I think a lot of times that's what it comes down to is I don't want to fail. And because of

00:36:36.120 that fear of failure, you, you won't allow yourself to take that next risk. I think a lot of times it

00:36:43.080 does come down to that because you don't want to look stupid. You don't want to look foolish. Oh, 1.00

00:36:46.640 I I'm the guy that always has it together. And, uh, and then that just becomes a really negative way.

00:36:52.080 You don't have any growth because you have to fail if you're going to, if you're going to grow,

00:36:56.160 that's part of the process. And I, you have people that are in their fifties, you know,

00:37:00.800 the CEOs that are trying new things and they're failing at it and they're just chalking it up to

00:37:04.620 another learning mistake and they're continuing and going, you know, fail, you know, if they fail,

00:37:09.260 it doesn't make them a failure. So, so I think that is a big part of having that, that growth mindset.

00:37:14.640 Yeah. I think you're right. Just, just almost making failure a game and being excited about not

00:37:19.800 failing, but just learning something new, right?

00:37:21.620 Yeah, exactly.

00:37:22.520 You're not failing. You're just learning.

00:37:23.380 Yeah. You fail tweak and you try again. I mean, that's the whole, I mean, if you put it into a

00:37:27.860 business model, you know, people beta test their products, right? They, they release a product that

00:37:33.460 they basically know is not complete. It's not how they really want it. They know it's going to fail

00:37:38.720 in some ways, but they know that they're going to learn so much from the different ways it fails

00:37:43.840 that they can incorporate into 2.0. Right. So how can we do that in our own life? Let's beta test some

00:37:50.580 things in our own life, right? Give it a shot. Give it a shot, you know, and then let's get 2.0

00:37:55.240 rolled out in a few months.

00:37:56.780 So your previous book was 101 secrets for your twenties. Really quickly, are there a couple

00:38:02.480 or a handful of secrets that we should be aware of that we can implement today?

00:38:07.240 Yeah, there, there's, I, and I've mentioned a few of them, you know, something like, you know,

00:38:10.520 finding, you know, the new OCD obsessive comparison disorder that I pulled that from 101 secrets to your

00:38:15.920 twenties. But, uh, another one that I, that I, that was big for me and I won't go through the

00:38:20.700 whole story, but basically it's, I think for a lot of guys, and I know I was like this as well,

00:38:26.620 is I felt like I kept, I kept getting stuck in kind of crappy jobs and I kept feeling like,

00:38:31.480 why can't I get out of this rut? Why can't I get out of this feeling of, I just keep working all

00:38:35.340 these crappy jobs. And then it was actually, it was watching this guy at Starbucks who I, I call the

00:38:41.780 mayor of Starbucks. And I was watching this barista basically, and he was doing such an amazing job.

00:38:48.260 And I kind of realized this, this truth that I was so caught up. I was so worried about finding the

00:38:54.640 right job when I really should be, should be worried about my job getting the best of me.

00:39:01.420 And I think for a lot of us, it's, we're always kind of going for that. If only moment,

00:39:05.860 if only I would get a raise or if only my job or my boss would stop being such a jerk, 0.99

00:39:10.880 or if only I could get a promotion, if only I could change jobs, then I would be feeling better. 0.99

00:39:17.980 Then I'd be working harder. Then I'd be, you know, doing all these things. And I think we're

00:39:21.820 always waiting for this if only moment when, no, you gotta be, you gotta start working hard and

00:39:26.680 being intentional right now. And what can you learn right now so that you can then leverage

00:39:30.980 to get a better job. And I was stuck in a lot of crappy jobs because I wasn't being intentional to

00:39:36.100 learn what I needed to learn in that season. We always hear this phrase of the grass is greener on the

00:39:40.360 other side, but the, the add on to that phrase that I really like is the grass is greener where

00:39:45.700 you water it. Right. Yeah, that's right. That's right. And I, and I actually have a, uh, I have

00:39:50.840 one, I think I put it in the 101 secreture twenties book where I put the grass is always greener on the

00:39:54.800 other side until you get there and realize it's because of all the manure. Yeah. Right. Right.

00:40:00.740 You know, and it's that same kind of thing. Like you have to water it and then you have to put a lot

00:40:04.160 of manure down sometimes to get grass to grow. And sometimes that compost is, it doesn't smell

00:40:09.000 very good. You know, there's a lot of work and there's a lot of death that goes into that. You

00:40:14.060 know, there's a lot of things that die off and that goes into the ground to help that grass grow.

00:40:18.580 Well, Paul, I really appreciate you being on the show today. We're winding down on time. I've got a

00:40:21.640 couple additional questions for you if I can really quickly. So the first question is, and this is

00:40:26.360 something that I ask all of my guests and I'm excited to hear your answer because this has been

00:40:29.780 really valuable, our conversation over the past half hour. And that question is, what does it mean

00:40:34.260 to be a man? Oh man, that is such a good question. It's such a hard one, right? And even the idea of

00:40:40.900 manhood has been, what does it mean nowadays? You know, what is it? What does that look like?

00:40:45.460 You know, I think, I think for men right now, I think one of the hardest things that we can do

00:40:49.940 is the courage to be vulnerable, which is not a manly thing to talk about sometimes. And that's why I

00:40:57.100 think it's so important for us to be vulnerable. And if we're going to be authentic, we have to

00:41:02.920 stop struggling to make it appear like we're not struggling. And I think we can grow so much more

00:41:08.340 as men if we have that kind of open-handed approach and seeking out mentors, seeking out friends to

00:41:15.880 say, hey, look, I don't have this figured out. I'm yelling at my wife. I'm yelling at my kids. I feel

00:41:21.720 miserable at my job. I need help. And so I think that's kind of counterintuitive to the typical

00:41:27.220 male answer. But to be able to say that I need help and being intentional about finding help,

00:41:32.860 I think sometimes is the most manly thing you can do. Thank you for that insight,

00:41:36.680 because that's something different than we've heard. And so that, but that's much needed.

00:41:39.320 That's what we need to hear. So I appreciate it. So Paul, how do we connect with you? Where do we

00:41:43.940 find more about what you're doing? I know you're pretty active with your blog and then you've got

00:41:48.380 all grown up and 101 secrets for your 20s. So how do we connect with you or learn more about what

00:41:52.700 you're doing? Yeah, yeah. You can come to my website, allgrownup.com. And again, grown is

00:41:57.320 spelled like you're groaning in pain, you know, G-R-O-A-N, all grown up. And then also I have a 0.99

00:42:04.580 new website I'm starting actually called signaturesauce.com. And so that's why I'm thinking

00:42:09.220 about this idea of signature sauce, because that's a new program I'm basically creating to help people

00:42:13.720 find their signature sauce. So they could go to signaturesauce.com if they want to find out more

00:42:18.840 about that or connect with me there as well. But they can reach out through any of my websites.

00:42:23.160 There's always contact forms or emails, or they can find me on Twitter at Paul Angoni is my Twitter

00:42:29.480 handle. And my name is A-N-G-O-N-E is my last name. So you can find me on Twitter there. So yeah,

00:42:35.560 feel free to reach out. If anything sparked within you of this conversation, you just want to find out

00:42:39.720 more or get me to explain something more, just reach out. I'd love to connect with you.

00:42:43.720 Paul, thanks a ton for being on the show. I had a good time talking about this and we're excited

00:42:49.420 to implement all of this stuff because I know it's so valuable for me and everybody else who's

00:42:53.180 listening. So thanks again.

00:42:54.200 Thanks, Ryan. It was an honor being on your show. I really appreciate it.

00:42:58.060 There it is, guys, Mr. Paul Angoni. I hope you enjoyed the show. I know that this 30-minute

00:43:02.460 conversation is going to be invaluable in a lot of men's lives. I hope that it's helped you.

00:43:07.440 Remember, again, you can check out the Cliff Notes version for this show at

00:43:10.700 orderofman.com slash 027. And also, if you enjoyed the show, if you learned something new,

00:43:16.400 if you're feeling generous, or if you just want to say thank you, head over to orderofman.com

00:43:20.500 slash iTunes and leave us your rating and review. And a quick reminder, again, join our exclusive

00:43:25.860 Facebook group. That's facebook.com slash groups slash orderofman. Join in the conversation that

00:43:31.360 we're having about manliness and masculinity. We want as many guys there as possible to join in

00:43:36.880 that conversation. Now, guys, we've got some great new shows lined up. I've got 8 to 10 recorded right

00:43:42.440 now. And so I've got some amazing guests, some amazing conversations, and some amazing interviews

00:43:47.480 over the next two months. So make sure you stay tuned. Guys, I look forward to talking with you

00:43:52.660 next week. But until then, take action and become the man you were meant to be.

00:43:57.080 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. If you're ready to take charge of your life and be

00:44:03.180 more of the man you were meant to be, we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - September 22, 2015

OoM 027： Growing Up, Getting Unstuck, and Learning to Fail with Paul Angone

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