OoM 036： The Art of Pitching Presenting, and Performing with Michael Port
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Summary
Whether you re pitching your latest idea to investors, vying for a job promotion, or performing in front of a large crowd, learning to become a better public speaker is a skill all men should learn. My guest today, Michael Port, shares with us why every man needs to learn this skill now, how to deliver a killer presentation, and the most common mistakes you ll need to avoid in order to get people on your side.
Transcript
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Whether you're pitching your latest idea to a group of investors, vying for a job promotion,
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or performing in front of a large crowd, learning to become a better public speaker is a skill all
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men should learn. My guest today, Michael Port, shares with us why every man needs to learn this
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skill now, how to deliver a killer presentation, and the most common mistakes you'll need to avoid
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in order to get people on your side. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest,
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embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up
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one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.
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This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day,
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and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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Welcome then to the Order of Man podcast. My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the founder of Order of
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Man. Now, I may not be the expert, but I have been a man all my life, 34 years now, and between myself
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and our guests, we'll talk about all things manly, the good, the bad, and the ugly. This show is being
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released Thanksgiving week, so I hope that you have as much to be thankful for about this year
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that I do. I encourage you to reflect on your year so far and think about all the blessings
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that each of us have. For me, I have a wonderful family that loves me. I have two thriving businesses
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that keep me fulfilled, and really important to me today is you guys. I appreciate you. I appreciate
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your support for the Order, and I truly hope that you're gaining value from these shows and the blog.
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Now, let's get into this show. I want to give you a couple of quick resources before we get started
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if you want a further discussion that we're having today. First, you can find all the links, the
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resources, the best quotes, and the overview for this show at orderofman.com slash 036. Second, if you
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want to dig into this conversation a bit more beyond what we're talking about here, join us on our
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Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash orderofman, where we will be talking and debating
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about the conversation Michael and I have today. Guys, we're going to be talking about all things
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presentations, performance, and pitching today with Michael Port. Now, he's written six books,
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including Book Yourself Solid, which, by the way, has transformed my personal financial planning
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practice. And more recently, he wrote Steal the Show, which, quote, might be the most unique and
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practical book ever written on the topic of public speaking. He's been called an uncommonly
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honest author by the Boston Globe, a marketing guru by the Wall Street Journal, a sales guru by
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the Financial Times, a public speaking phenom by Jonathan Fields, and the best public speaking coach
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in the world by Lewis Howes. Amazon and 800 CEO Reed have both selected his books as, quote,
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the best books of the year. Michael Port was once a professional actor. He received his Master in
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Fine Arts from NYU's graduate acting program, and he's been guest starring on shows and movies like
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Sex and the City, Law and Order, and in films like Pelican Brief, Down to Earth. He's an expert
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in communication and business development, and he is the host of the most popular podcast on public
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speaking and performance, Steal the Show. Michael, glad to have you on the show. Thanks for joining
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us today. You're welcome. Glad to be here. So I didn't talk to you about this before we started
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recording, but about three or four years ago, I was sitting on the plane, and I was reading your book,
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Book Yourself Solid, and I was so excited about that book and what it's done for me and my
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financial planning practice, and I never in a million years thought I'd have you on the show
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today. So I'm excited to have you here today. That's really cool. So what do you think got
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you here today? What do I think got me here with Order of Man? Yeah. I mean, you know, how do you do
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that in four years? You know, go from reading a book going, I don't think I'd ever talk to this
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author. Next thing you know, you know, he's going, hey, I'd love to be on your show. That sounds cool.
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Yeah. You know, I think it's really a matter of following my passions. I've still got my
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financial planning practice, and I still do that pretty regularly, pretty full time there,
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but I really followed my passion of helping men become better men. And this was something that I
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wanted to pursue and something I wanted to grow and something I wanted to develop in. And so I
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pursued this passion, and it's pretty interesting, the conversations and the people I get to connect
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with because I'm passionate about something. That's fantastic. I love that you focus on finance,
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too, because I think this is an area that we don't, certainly we don't learn about it when we're
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younger, but we often don't pay enough attention to our future until we get there.
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And, you know, I've always been great at spending money. I'm an expert at that. I really am very-
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Very good at that. Yeah. But, you know, I didn't save much when I was younger. And when I got serious
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about it, I got really serious about it because my future father-in-law, I'm getting married next
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month, month after next, he said, you know, the first 30 years are for learning. Next 30 years are for
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earning. And the next 30 years are for giving. And I thought, that's fantastic. But in order to do
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all of that giving, you've got to earn. So now I work, so I don't have to work. That's the goal.
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And I spent a lot of time focusing on saving my money and investing it properly.
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No, that's good. I wish more people had that same philosophy or that same approach. It's amazing how
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many people I talk with who have no real idea of how money works and the power that it can be,
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not only in your life, but to be able to help others as well.
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I'll just say one more thing about it. Obviously, this is not what I'm here to talk about. But
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I just want to say this because I was one of those people who was intimidated by it because I thought
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it was all numbers. And I mean, the jargon is just ridiculous. And I felt that I couldn't take
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control over it for whatever reason until I didn't, until I said, that's ridiculous. I can learn
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whatever I want to learn. I mean, if I have an interest in it, I'll learn it. And once I did,
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the whole world opened up to me. So don't be afraid of it is what I'm saying.
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Absolutely. And that comes with any area in life, including what we're going to talk about today,
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So you make the case that learning to perform, learning how to give presentations or even keynote
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speeches isn't just about that. It isn't just for those select few who want to give those
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presentations to thousands of people at a time, but it's skills that we as men can use
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on an everyday basis. So tell me a little bit about that.
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Yeah, absolutely. Anytime you're speaking, you're speaking in public, right? You're public speaking.
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People are learning about you based on the way that you interact with them verbally. And if you
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think about your life, your life is in large part determined, the quality of your life is in large
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part determined by how, how well you perform during life's high stakes situations. And if you fall
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flat during those situations, you know, you have flat life, but if you can shine when the spotlight's
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on you, well, then you can do big things in the world. And this, this applies to job interviews,
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negotiations, sales pitches, you know, even meeting your future in-laws for the first time is a type
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of performance. Sure. But it's very important to me that we define performance because sometimes when
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people hear the word performance, they equate it with fake, right? Right. That somebody is being
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fake or phony and good performance is not about fake behavior. Good performance is about authentic
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behavior in a manufactured situation. And many of the situations we find ourselves in are manufactured.
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They're made up. A job interview is a very manufactured, constrained type of situation that
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you are put into. And the way the job interview is run is by the person who sets it up. You have to
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fit inside that particular constraint. A negotiation, same thing. It's a very manufactured environment.
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And so how we perform authentically in those spaces is what's going to determine the quality of our
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life. And I started as an actor. That was my first career. And I have a master's degree from the
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graduate acting program at NYU. When I was younger, I didn't see it. But now, now I realize that so much
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of what I've accomplished over the years is due to the fact that I was trained in the theater.
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So I had a modicum of success. I was on shows like Sex and the City and Third Watch, Law and Order,
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All My Children. I was in films like Down to Earth, The Pelican Brief, Last Call, The Believer. And then
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I did a lot of voiceovers. Voiceovers was my bread and butter. Now you might not, you might not be able
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to tell right now because I'm pretty sick, but, uh, but you still got that golden voice. I can hear.
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Well, that's very kind. I appreciate that. But I used to do voiceovers for, uh, Braun,
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Coors Beer, Budweiser, MTV, Home and Garden Network, All My Children, Pizza Hut. I used to do
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1-800-CALL-ATT. You know, that, that was, that was my bread and butter, but I left the business
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in part because I wasn't getting what I wanted as fast as I wanted it. And I was young and impatient
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and immature. And I didn't realize that sometimes it takes time to achieve the big goals. It's not
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all going to happen right away. And, you know, I wasn't entitled to it, although I think I thought
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I was. And that's been one of the greatest lessons of my life is to know that I'm not entitled to
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anything. I've got to earn everything that I want. And sometimes it takes a while, but if you're
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willing to, if I'm willing to, you know, commit to the pursuit of mastery, uh, and put my heart on
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the line, uh, then often good things will come. One of the things that I discovered in, in retrospect
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was that I would sometimes go into an audition and pretend that I didn't care because if I admitted
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how much I wanted it, if I admitted how much I cared and I didn't get it, what would that mean?
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Right. Does that mean that I don't have what it takes that I'm not enough? You know, I remember I
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did that for, I was testing for a film called kiss the girls and that was with Morgan Friedman and it
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was to play the cop opposite Morgan Friedman, the one who turns out to be the killer. Right. And I,
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it was a big deal at the time for me. And I remember kind of going, well, you know, I don't know if it's
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a great script and I don't really, I don't know if I want to get, you know, typecast in this kind
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of role, all this is total BS. I mean, it's absolutely BS. And then this way, if I didn't
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get it, I could go, well, you know, look, I wasn't that interested in it anyway. And I didn't realize
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I was doing it at the time, but I think that it's very hard to get what you want unless you really
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admit what you want. If you put it out there in the world, uh, and go for it. And at least this is,
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you know, I can only speak for myself. This has been the case here, but, but what I learned as
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a performer in my training and in my experience has applied to so many different aspects of life.
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And I got my first job when I left acting, I talked my way into a job for which I was completely
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unqualified by looking at the process, just like I looked at the process of creating a character
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in a play or a TV show. And what people don't realize about actors is that they think the actor
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is faking emotions. The actor is not fake. Not maybe the, the good actor is not faking emotions.
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The, the good actor knows that they're in a manufactured environment. Like Tom Hanks knows
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that he's, of course he knows it's a movie that he's wearing a costume and you know, he's on a set,
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but when he is what you see him experiencing, he actually experiences it. He's feeling those
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feelings and that's an intense way to live, but it's an honest way to work as a performer.
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And so when I looked at this job interview, I started to think about, well, what kind of character
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do I need to create based on who I really am? I own different parts of my personality. Uh, how do I
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amplify those to play the character that is right for the role that they want to cast? And so I started
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to look at my backstory and see how it connects. How does it add up? Sure. And, and it was really
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remarkable how I was, I was able to go in there. Like I had none of the qualifications that they were
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looking for, none of the certifications that they required, but I was able to make my case that they
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should hire me because I was in fact, what they were looking for. They just didn't realize it.
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Interesting. When, so my question is when you, just to go back a second, because you talked about
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having this mindset of, Oh, I don't really care about the job. I don't really care about the part.
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Were you sabotaging yourself? Were there some things that you were doing either consciously or
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subconsciously that kept you from actually getting the role or getting the job or whatever it may be?
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Absolutely. I think that our ability to handle responsibility is what influences our level of
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success. So I think the amount of success that we have is often directly proportionate to the amount
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of responsibility that we can handle. And the more responsibility we can handle, the more that we can
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handle at one time, we can deal with all of the difficult family issues that are coming up. We can deal
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with the employee issues that are happening. We can deal with cashflow issues. We can deal with,
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you know, we can create a big things and new things at the same time, but all of these things
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are going on at the same time. And if we can handle all of these things at once, we can tend to play a
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pretty big game. But the people that I know that can really only handle one thing at a time,
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they have a hard time growing professionally. It's funny that you say that because I want to go back to
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that conversation we're having about money, a lot of people will always ask me, how do I build more
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wealth and how do I make more money? And I think before we move into that, we need to first figure
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out how is it that you're handling your current level of wealth? Because if you're not handling
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that correctly, there's no way in a million years, even if you won the lottery, that you would be able
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to produce more wealth in your life because you don't know, understand how to manage the limited
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Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It makes perfect sense to me. I get that.
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So that's what I try to do. I try to work on my ability to handle responsibility because, you know,
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sometimes, you know, even when you get the things you ask for, sometimes you go, I don't want to do
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this right now. I'm tired. Like, you know, I'm sick as a dog right now, but I'm not canceling
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podcast interviews. I'm not, I got to do what I got to do. That's my job.
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Right. And look, obviously, you know, sometimes, yeah, I'd cancel a day of interviews if I was
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at 104 fever and I couldn't get out of bed. Of course. Of course. Yeah. But if I was,
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if I was expected on Oprah that day, oh, I'd be there. Yeah. Right. Yeah. There's nothing that's
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going to keep you from that. No. And that's one of the, you know, one of the principles that the
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performer knows is the show must go on no matter what. And when you are in a performance space,
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I don't mean literally, I mean the way that you see the world, then you behave differently. For
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example, one of the performance principles that I discussed in steal the show is the principle
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of having a very clear objective. Now people talk about goals. So, so it's not a new concept that
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there's things that you want to go after, but I talk about it from this perspective. When an actor
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develops a character, they get very, very clear on what objectives the character is trying to
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achieve. And then they, as an actor choose different tactics, uh, and really fire up their
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motivation to achieve that goal. And often the way that the writer has, if the writer's written a
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powerful script, then there are a lot of obstacles in their way and you have something compelling to
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watch. And that's how life is, isn't it? You know, of course, yeah. Trials and overcoming those
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obstacles. That's right. And so, and so if you don't get really clear about your objectives going
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into any performance situation, then you don't necessarily know what tactics you'll take to
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overcome the obstacles that get in the way of achieving that objective. Sure. Makes sense. So
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this is, this is one of the things that helps anytime we are faced with something that is a high
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stake situation. And if your motivation is so strong, if it's so high that you're willing to
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do whatever it takes, no matter what, no matter how you feel, if you've got a broken leg, you hobble
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there. You know, uh, Marcus Luttrell who wrote the book, uh, the lone survivor, and then they, uh,
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produced a film based on it with Mark Wahlberg. He's the Navy SEAL, uh, who was the only, um, man to
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survive, uh, really, really, really, uh, difficult, uh, firefight in Afghanistan. Uh, he crawled for
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seven miles with bullets in his body, his body half paralyzed, broken jaw, broken nose, probably 10
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other broken bones. Uh, he crawled for seven miles because he wanted to live. Well, he had an
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objective and a pretty strong motivation to do it. He's not going to say, well, I'll just, you know,
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nevermind. He, he did everything in his power to live. And, and he did, he got lucky, you know,
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that he lived, but he was involved in the process of getting lucky. So I mentioned this because my
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fiance, Amy and I, uh, sat down and do a podcast the other day together for steal the show for my
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podcast. And both of us were tired that morning. We were kind of a little bit edgy, not the best
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mood ever. And within minutes of pressing record, our energy changed, our state of beings changed
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because now we had to perform for our audience. We had to deliver on a promise. We had to make a
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promise to our audience and deliver on a promise. And when you put yourself in that situation, when the
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promises are, are big, the stakes are high, then your physical state will change. Your mental state
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will change. The way you go after things will change. And after a 30 minute episode that we
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recorded, we, I stopped the recording and Amy looks at me and she goes, Oh, we should just do a
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podcast. Anytime we're grumpy. It worked out that well. It worked out that well because we couldn't
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show up there grumpy. We couldn't be like, Hey, what's up? This is still the show. I'm pissed off. I'm
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here. Of course. Right. Yeah. How would that go over? Yeah. How would that go over with the people
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that I serve? You know? So we always have to keep earning the attention that we get. And, uh,
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and I think it changes your state of being when you look at it from a performance situation and
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authentic one, of course, but it's not inauthentic to, to bring your best self to a performance.
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Even when you're in a bad mood, that's not inauthentic. That's a smart thing to do.
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Yeah. So how do you practice authenticity? Because I know that kind of, even, even that
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just sounds a little bit like an oxymoron practice authenticity. So how do you get better
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at, and I think the term you use is actually finding your voice. And I think those two are
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probably parallel if I'm understanding that correctly. Yeah, they are. As Fitzgerald said,
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and I paraphrase, uh, you know, he, he said that the ability to hold two opposing thoughts in your
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head at the same time is, uh, is a sign of a very intelligent man. And, uh, and that's exactly
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what it is. This idea that you are both authentic and performing at the same time, those two things
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can go hand in hand. And let's, let's just take, for example, if you're giving a speech or a toast,
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let's just take that. For example, if, if you do not prepare at all, you might feel lost when you're
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giving the presentation, right? You might not know what's coming next. And you might seem stiff
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and inauthentic to the audience because you're not making an emotional connection with them.
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But if you are so well prepared that you can go into that speech as if you're a blank slate,
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but what you deliver to them comes to you in the moment, based on what you've prepared,
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you are able to make a better connection with them. And as a result, a more authentic connection
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with them. I had an experience. Um, I've, I've blessed my children and as I bless my children,
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I really think about, I pray and I think about what it is that I want to talk about. And I was
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talking with somebody and they said, you know, you're preparing for this, but you should really
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be listening to the spirit in the moment. And my thought in the conversation I had with them is
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just because I prepared and just because I've thought about it beforehand, the thoughts and
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the things that I want to talk about in that blessing doesn't make it inauthentic. It, like
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you said, it allows me to get all my thoughts out on paper, have a clear head so that in the moment I
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can listen to that inspiration and use that in plugin and fill in the gaps. So that makes total
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sense to me. Sometimes, sometimes people resist preparation or rehearsal for any kind of
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performance, a sales meeting, the job interview, um, the negotiation or, or actually giving a speech
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because they feel that they feel that when, when they rehearse they're stiff. And I think that
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they're probably right. I think they really are making sense because they've tried some rehearsal in
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the past and then they were stiff when they went and tried to perform what they had rehearsed. And
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it's in large part because they only did a little bit of rehearsal. If you do a little bit of
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rehearsal, then when you're in the, in the performance itself, you are thinking about what
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you did in rehearsal, trying to remember that. So you can do that when you're giving the performance.
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Now, what happens is you're not in the moment. You're trying to recall something that happened
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before, as opposed to knowing what you're doing next. Those are two different things.
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And authenticity requires that you're in the moment listening. And this is another one of the
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principles that I address and steal the show because performing is not about doing only it's
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about listening and being affected by what the other person has to say, what they are doing,
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and then responding authentically to them. But being able to manage your emotions,
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control your body, control your breathing, and choose how you're going to respond based on what
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comes at you. So when I got divorced, I was divorced in 2008. This was, yeah, this is a while ago now.
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So, you know, it was, it was a little bit, it was a little bit difficult at first. My ex-wife and I
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have a great relationship now. We're close, really close with her fiance and, and the world is good
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around that particular issue. But at first it was a little bit challenging and we were arguing over
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some things and someone gave me a great piece of advice. He said, listen, just focus on your goal
00:23:23.780
and hear what she's saying. And even if it pisses you off, even if it, you know, gets your blood
00:23:31.520
boiling, choose a response that helps you get closer to your goal, not just respond to what
00:23:40.300
she said because it pissed you off. I said, okay, I'll try it. And it opened the world to me. And
00:23:45.980
that's, and it reminded me, you know, all of these experiences that I've had, they kept reminding me
00:23:49.500
about how all of the training that I had as an actor applies to all these different
00:23:53.660
aspects of life, because that's what you do as an actor. You take in what the other person is
00:23:58.320
saying, you absorb it, and then you choose your response, but it should be an authentic response.
00:24:04.880
And I don't think there's anything manipulative about saying, you know, I'm going to go after
00:24:08.800
what I want because we have agendas period. And I think it's, I think a good idea to be honest
00:24:18.180
about our agendas, to recognize that we have them, to recognize that other people have them.
00:24:22.880
And that's okay. Right. I think it's actually important to have an agenda, to have a goal
00:24:27.140
and an outline of what you want to accomplish. Of course, in any area of life. Absolutely.
00:24:31.020
So that doesn't mean that you don't compromise and that you're a difficult person. No, no,
00:24:35.000
no, of course not. But, but nonetheless, there's something we want, like, you know, I want to
00:24:39.820
sell books. So I go on podcast is, I don't think anybody would fault me for that.
00:24:45.040
No. Yeah. So I think be honest about your agenda, but when you are in a performance situation
00:24:53.380
and you've made a promise to somebody or to an audience, then your job is to deliver on that.
00:25:01.640
And if your agenda lines up with the delivery of that promise, then you're thinking smart.
00:25:06.760
But if your agenda is more important than the delivery of the promise, well, then the audience
00:25:14.020
and the audience could be one person sitting across the table from you, then they are not
00:25:18.620
interested. You see, that's, what's key. You say, look, here's my agenda, right? And here's my
00:25:23.580
promise to you. And if you deliver on the promise, right, then you generally are able to achieve
00:25:28.920
your objective. But if you say, here's my agenda, here's my promise, but you don't deliver on the
00:25:34.140
promise, you know, then people won't be inclined to work with you. So I think that commitment
00:25:39.720
making and fulfilling is what, what demonstrates who we are and builds our reputation.
00:25:46.200
How do you go from having your objective or your goals or what it is that you want to accomplish
00:25:51.500
to now that I've identified that, let's just take a job interview. For example, my objective is that
00:25:56.900
I want to land this job. I want to land this position or get this promotion. How do you then take
00:26:01.800
that and come up with the tactics or strategies? I don't know the right term to use, but how do you
00:26:08.960
then place it into practice so that you can start moving towards that goal?
00:26:12.520
So, so let's, first you look at your backstory. What do you have in your life? What have you done
00:26:19.720
in your life that is relevant to what is needed in that particular situation? Now, if you're not sure
00:26:25.540
what's needed, you know, what's called for, then you want to get really clear on that. You know,
00:26:29.600
what, uh, what is needed to get a yes. Right. And sometimes what we do is we look for what they
00:26:37.020
want rather than what we think is needed. You know, if we're really not sure and we are not
00:26:43.560
sure what they want, then we've got to do some investigation. But one of the things that we
00:26:47.480
often do is we work for approval rather than results. And so we think, all right, what are they
00:26:52.500
looking for? What are they looking for? What are they looking for? When the fact of the matter is
00:26:55.800
they're asking you to come in and show them, ah, here's, that's the guy we were looking for.
00:27:02.780
Interesting. Yeah. That makes sense. That's an interesting perspective for sure.
00:27:05.820
So I'll give you, I'll give you a real life example. And, and a lot of what I wrote about
00:27:09.860
and steal the show, I took from the world of acting and apply it to real life. When, when I was an
00:27:14.600
actor, I'd go in for an audition and I get the script and I think about it. What is the, what are
00:27:18.160
they looking for? What's the casting director looking for? Or what's the director looking for?
00:27:22.220
Or what's the producer looking for? And then I'd go in and I, I try to perform what I thought they
00:27:26.340
were looking for. And then I'd try to figure it out in the room. And, you know, that was my focus,
00:27:31.540
but really the casting director just wants to make sure that she doesn't get fired.
00:27:37.740
Right. And, and I, I, I say that, you know, a little, you know, tongue in cheek because
00:27:43.600
often what happens is the, the director will, the producer will hire a casting director. The
00:27:49.100
casting director doesn't bring in, uh, actors that the director likes and then they'll fire
00:27:54.480
that cast director and hire another cast director. And who do you think that cast director brings in?
00:27:59.080
Yes. There's only a handful of people that get the auditions in New York and LA.
00:28:04.480
So they're just, you know, they said, look, just give me something, show me something that I can,
00:28:08.380
you know, bring to the director. Now then you're in front of the director and the director is
00:28:12.000
thinking, shit, I hope this actor doesn't ask me anything. Cause you know, all I've done
00:28:16.500
his music videos for the last 10 years. And this is the first time they've given me big
00:28:20.240
budget to do a big film. So I don't know what to tell them. They just want you to come in as that
00:28:24.780
character. Right. And then the producer, if you're a guy and you're not famous, they're just thinking,
00:28:30.260
can I, can I, I probably could get him really cheap. Can I get him, can I give him this role?
00:28:35.380
I like him, uh, and still sell the movie. Do I have enough star power without him? And if you're a
00:28:40.120
woman, they're probably thinking, Oh, will she go out with me? And that's, you know, that's,
00:28:44.440
that's the producer's, uh, MO, uh, in the, in Hollywood. So, but I realized, you know,
00:28:50.040
my friends that they became very successful, I don't really think they did that. Not too much.
00:28:55.320
I mean, Michael Hall was a classmate of mine, good friend of mine. When I was in grad school,
00:28:58.500
uh, he plays Dexter, uh, Daniel J Kim was a good friend of mine, classmate. Uh, when I was in grad
00:29:03.660
school, he's a, on Hawaii five. Oh, he was, he was in lost for years. And, and I remember, you know,
00:29:09.680
they were the kind of folks who'd often go in and they would, they would think about what they
00:29:14.360
thought the character should be like. And that made a big difference, uh, in the way they were
00:29:21.140
perceived in that audition process. So when I went in for that job interview, that first job interview
00:29:28.620
that I ever had, I mean, it was really the first real interview that I'd ever had. And I was in my
00:29:33.560
twenties because I had been acting and I pitched them an idea. I said, look, here's, here's what it,
00:29:42.080
it suggests that you're looking for on this job description. I get that. It makes perfect sense
00:29:48.340
to me. Here's what I think you really need. And I outlined it. And there's a three part formula
00:29:56.720
that I always use. Anytime I'm trying to pitch something, me or some, or something else. And the
00:30:01.060
first is demonstrating that it's going to be successful, that this will work. And that means
00:30:05.400
you have to very, you have to have a very well thought out, very logical, uh, explanation for
00:30:11.420
why you think the thing you're pitching is going to work. And if they say, no, I don't think that's
00:30:16.880
going to work. That's it. That's done. Like if they didn't buy the fact that you don't need to move
00:30:20.720
to two and three, right? Exactly. I mean, you're just, you're done. I mean, they're, they're done.
00:30:24.580
You might keep going, you know, they'll give you the, they'll say, they'll humor you and let you keep
00:30:28.160
going, but they know they're already out. Sure. So I had to, I had to make a presentation. I had
00:30:32.600
to pitch to them that hiring somebody who was an actor, who was not from the fitness business was
00:30:37.360
actually a better idea because I knew performance, what this particular division of the business
00:30:42.420
needed was a performance element. I knew production, this business needs production. Um, and I knew, uh,
00:30:49.380
talent and development of talent because that's what I, that's what I did. I mean, I was in the,
00:30:55.100
you know, the theater business, the film business. Um, and I had experience managing projects because
00:31:01.640
when I was in school, they made us manage projects and big, you know, theater projects are, uh, take a
00:31:07.640
lot of, uh, project management. I said, but you're not looking for any of those things on your job
00:31:11.600
description. But when you look at this particular role that you need to cast here, that's what's most
00:31:18.400
important. And you're casting the wrong people. You're casting people who are really good at fitness
00:31:23.420
and you're casting them on the business side, but those two things don't always marry up.
00:31:27.560
Right. So I had to make this pitch. And of course it's risky. And that's, you know, uh, uh, that's
00:31:32.300
another one of the principles that I outlined in the second part of the book is how to take really
00:31:35.600
smart calculated risks because the people that are compelling are ones who take risks, people that
00:31:41.660
play it safe, not so compelling. And fortunately in that case, they went, yeah, you know what?
00:31:47.000
I think that makes sense. I could see someone like that being successful in this position.
00:31:51.760
Okay. Then I had to demonstrate that it, this was worth their resources. This is worth their
00:31:56.900
time, right? This is because they've got to take a little risk to bringing somebody else
00:32:01.840
in, uh, who's not normal. Uh, and, and it's, especially in the corporate world, people have
00:32:08.640
to explain themselves. You know, they've got to prove to their boss why they're, why they're
00:32:13.180
making this decision. And if it doesn't go well, uh, they're going to need an out. So it's
00:32:19.540
often why they hire the safe, uh, person because they say, oh, well, look, uh, all the T's were
00:32:24.640
crossed and the I's were dotted. I don't know why he didn't work out. It's not my fault.
00:32:28.820
Right. They're not doing anything outside of the box that's in and then things that have
00:32:31.940
worked in the past, right? Exactly. Right. So, uh, what performers know is that part of
00:32:36.440
our job is to break the rules, not just to break the rules, not just to be rebellious, but
00:32:40.100
to create something that didn't exist before to create something better in its place.
00:32:44.740
And then it sounds like what you're saying is that, you know, in the acting world, but then also
00:32:49.980
other scenarios that I think people are looking for somebody who's willing to take some initiative
00:32:54.220
and take charge of the situation and come with their own unique perspective. Absolutely. Another,
00:32:58.960
another chapter is devoted to making choices early and often. If you don't make a lot of choices or
00:33:04.260
you perseverate, meaning you go back and forth and back and forth and back and forth, not a lot
00:33:08.020
happens, but if we make strong choices, then we can move the needle forward. And, you know,
00:33:13.300
we're trying to produce action in our life, right? Action will create some traction, but inaction
00:33:20.140
won't. So that's that second piece is they say, is this worth my time? Right. And if the answer is no,
00:33:31.360
then that's it. Then it's over. But if the answer is yes, then they'll ask a third question is,
00:33:35.800
is this person the one who's able to champion this? Are they the one to do this? Because I might have
00:33:41.840
made a case that they're looking for the wrong person. They might've said, Oh, you know what?
00:33:46.700
He's right. That makes sense. I may have made a case that it's worth their time trying to find
00:33:51.000
that person, but I may not have demonstrated that I'm the one. Yeah. You gave somebody else a really
00:33:57.040
good opportunity, right? Exactly. So all of those three points need to be hit. And that's really
00:34:04.380
important. Uh, and you know, that's the, that's the art of the pitch, so to speak. You know, that's,
00:34:09.640
it's one of the ways you can go in there and steal the show. You've got that structure,
00:34:12.800
that formula. And you know, you might be in, in four different interviews, or you might have
00:34:18.940
four different negotiations or four different sales meetings. And each meeting will have,
00:34:24.420
you know, different focus, different agenda, but you keep those three points top of mind and keep
00:34:29.700
making sure that you've got yeses in all of those areas. Every time you re revisit that conversation
00:34:35.640
with somebody, you know, are they still a yes on one? Are they, are they still a yes on two? Cause
00:34:40.700
now I'm working to get them a three, but if they're not, I'm not convinced that they're a hundred
00:34:45.440
percent yes on the number two. Well, let's get back to that. And let me see if I can steer the
00:34:48.980
conversation back there. Yeah, no, that's nice. And I can see that it can translate to all areas,
00:34:54.300
all areas of life or, or presenting in general. What are some of the, uh, the common mistakes that you
00:35:00.080
see people make or that you, you hear, or you see, and maybe you cringe. I mean,
00:35:04.380
that's what I'm really interested in. Where are some areas that we can improve as presenters?
00:35:08.800
Well, I, I really don't cringe. I think you can be a performer or a critic, but I don't think you
00:35:13.680
can be both. And, and I think it's because, you know, one of the reasons that we are afraid to
00:35:19.860
perform is because we're afraid of rejection. We're afraid of looking stupid, being told that
00:35:23.860
we're stupid. Uh, or having people talk about us, you know, behind our back, you know, sitting in
00:35:28.480
the stall in the bathroom and hearing two people walk in, we're like that dude was, you know?
00:35:33.780
Yeah. Right. Right. I know. You don't want that. Yeah. That's not, you don't want that. So what we
00:35:38.240
do is, uh, you know, is we just, we just play it really safe because we don't want that to happen.
00:35:44.060
And then when we're in a situation where we want to perform, right, this is the performer's paradox.
00:35:48.320
You want to perform, but you also don't want to screw up. So you have two intentions. I really
00:35:51.580
want to perform. I really don't want to screw up. Well, those two things cancel each other out.
00:35:56.880
Yeah. I want to take risks, but I want to be safe. Right. So I, I say if, cause look,
00:36:01.700
the voices of judgment in your head are really powerful. There's two types of critics. There's
00:36:06.680
critics in the cheap seats or in this, in the bathroom, right. That like to push others down
00:36:11.080
and lift themselves up because it's very easy to critique. It's very hard to perform.
00:36:15.920
They're not on stage doing it. Exactly. And then there's the critic in your head. There's the
00:36:20.320
voices that say, you know, you don't know enough. You're not enough. You'll never be enough.
00:36:23.940
But when those voices inside your head are loud, then the voices outside are even louder.
00:36:29.120
Hmm. If I doubt myself all the time and I go read a bad review that somebody writes about one of my
00:36:36.260
books, well, that review is going to stick in my head. But if I, if the voices of judgment are quiet
00:36:42.220
in my head, if I really focus on, you know, on doing the best work that I possibly can do,
00:36:46.900
those voices won't be quite as loud. They still, I can still hear them, but it's not, they're not
00:36:52.060
debilitating. And that's, that's often the fear that people have is these voices, you know,
00:36:56.920
they're just going to be debilitating or it's not even a fear necessarily. It's actually
00:37:01.080
debilitating for them. So the reason I say this is because it's too easy to criticize. It's just
00:37:08.720
way, way too easy to criticize. So if, if I just don't want the devil's advocate in my office,
00:37:13.940
not interested, I'm interested in the people who are, look, I found a hole. Here's a solution.
00:37:19.120
I'm not interested in the one who pokes holes. Right. So with that said, because if you go out there
00:37:23.880
and you, if you're criticizing a lot, a lot, let's say you're sort of MO, then I think it's
00:37:28.820
hard to create because subconsciously you're afraid others are going to do the same thing to
00:37:33.020
you. So what I ask people to do is look at their Facebook page for the last six months or a year,
00:37:37.280
just scroll back through it and look at the posts you've made or the comments you've made on other
00:37:42.300
people's posts. Are they positive or are you negative? Are you making fun of something on a
00:37:49.620
regular basis? Are you critiquing something on a regular basis? Or are you trying to offer a
00:37:55.500
positive perspective or another way to look at it? Or, yeah, I get that. And let's also think about
00:38:01.340
this. If, if the former is the case, then, you know, it might be time to reconsider another way
00:38:06.780
of being, another style of behavior. So that's, so that's that. So with that said, often when,
00:38:12.860
when we start a performance, we, we do a lot of filler, you know, for, give a speech, the beginning
00:38:19.660
of the speech, we separate the beginning of the speech, uh, from the start of the speech.
00:38:27.600
So we talk for a while and, you know, kind of a little bit of this, Oh, I flew in from Duluth.
00:38:32.260
You know, my arms are really tired, you know, that kind of thing. And then we say, okay, let's get
00:38:36.120
started. Well, the fact of the matter is you already started. You already started. You're already
00:38:40.480
on stage. Exactly. As soon as they saw you. So as soon as, uh, they see, or even if, if you're
00:38:46.780
introduced with a bio, right, that's when it starts. It starts with the introduction bio. If,
00:38:51.440
uh, if you're in that kind of, uh, environment. So all, every single thing they hear about you,
00:38:56.960
everything they see about you, it's all part of that particular presentation. Another thing I'd
00:39:02.660
suggest is to stay away from, if you learn anything from this presentation, or if you remember
00:39:10.480
anything, remember this, because what it suggests to the audience is that you didn't really need
00:39:16.260
to give that speech for an hour and nothing else was important, right? Exactly. That maybe only that
00:39:22.860
was the thing they had to remember. And then they shut everything else out. But ideally, you know,
00:39:27.620
all of it is valuable. All of it is important. And some of it will resonate more with some people and,
00:39:32.400
and, and some of it will resonate with, with others. So if that one thing that you want them to
00:39:38.100
remember doesn't resonate with everyone, then they might think, Oh, well, I guess,
00:39:43.300
I guess there wasn't that much in here for me. I mean, I thought that other thing resonated,
00:39:46.840
but maybe not, you know, uh, audiences, you know, they, they, they want to get a lot of value
00:39:53.600
and they want you to ensure that they're getting a lot of value. When you're starting a story,
00:40:01.460
when you're telling a story, you don't need to say, let me tell you a story. Right. Uh,
00:40:05.840
there's a couple of reasons. One, because you're setting it up as something that is supposed to be
00:40:10.160
dramatic. And then they sort of sit back and go, all right, let me see what you got.
00:40:16.540
Yeah. Maybe they're questioning whether that's the validity even of that story. Right. Yeah. Or,
00:40:21.720
yeah. Or you say, let me tell you a story. This is true. Well, shouldn't all of your stories be
00:40:27.040
true? Why didn't you say, yeah. Why do you need to throw that disclaimer in there? Exactly. Or if you're
00:40:31.960
doing any kind of Q and a, uh, I would stay away from saying, that's a great, that's a great question
00:40:36.760
because if you don't say that to every single person, it suggests that the other questions
00:40:42.660
were not great questions. But if you say that's a great question to everyone, then it sounds like
00:40:49.020
you're pandering. Right. Um, any type of audience interaction that you do should be proportionate to
00:40:56.220
the amount of trust that you've earned. So sometimes somebody will start out a speech with a
00:41:00.920
question thinking they're going to get the audience engaged and they want to ask a really
00:41:06.800
powerful question to get them thinking. But if they don't know that audience, they don't,
00:41:12.720
they haven't yet earned the right to ask a sensitive question. So for example, let's say
00:41:17.000
as a financial planner, you went to give a speech. Okay. And these are people that, you know, you wanted
00:41:22.580
to impact positively. And the first thing you asked, as soon as you walked out there, say, okay,
00:41:27.320
raise your hand if you're in debt. Right. Yeah. Who's going to answer, who's going to answer that
00:41:31.600
question? Yeah. I mean, you know, if there's one person in the room, okay, maybe he'll answer that
00:41:36.760
because, but you think, you know, the guy's going to raise his hand with all these people around him
00:41:41.160
that he doesn't know. And he's like, Oh, there's this cute girl next to me. I'm not going to raise
00:41:44.480
my hand. So, so it's just not, or like, raise your hand if you're an alcoholic, like that, you know,
00:41:51.540
unless you're in an AA meeting that just doesn't, it's not, not appropriate. So we want to make sure
00:41:56.600
that anything we're asking of the audience is proportionate to the amount of trust that we've
00:42:00.500
earned. That's funny. You know, the, one of the things that I think about a lot is when a performer
00:42:05.600
will come out or, or somebody giving a presentation and say, are you excited to be here? And, and the
00:42:10.620
audience doesn't get as loud as the presenter would like. And so he asks again, and my thought is,
00:42:16.060
and you're articulating this point, I never thought about this is, well, I don't know if I'm excited
00:42:19.900
yet. I haven't heard you say anything worth getting excited about. Exactly. Right. Exactly.
00:42:23.600
Right. So we also don't want to force the audience to do things that they don't want to do.
00:42:28.860
Sure. It's a balance, you know, we want to push them, but we don't want to punch them.
00:42:35.180
There's a difference and you want to lead them. It's a balance, you know, between just moving them a
00:42:42.440
little farther than they thought they were going to go, uh, but not using, uh, silly tactics to
00:42:49.800
try to get them to do things like that. Uh, it's generally not necessary. And then people,
00:42:54.500
uh, sometimes can resent you for it and go, all right, here comes one of those speeches.
00:42:59.320
Uh, you know, and, and so there's a, there's a negative association, but here's the thing
00:43:03.620
for those who are listening, anybody that has done these kinds of things, there's nothing wrong with
00:43:07.680
you. There's nothing wrong with anybody that has done these things. They're just, this is just
00:43:11.500
what they've seen people do. So we learn by copying. And, uh, you know, if we're going to,
00:43:17.960
if we want to continue to improve, we just learn more and we are exposed to, uh, more experienced
00:43:23.280
teachers over time, et cetera, in different styles of performing and presenting. There isn't one right
00:43:28.900
way. It's an art to me, but we, we, a lot of the things that I teach that I suggest people stay away
00:43:36.640
from are things that I did when I started. How do you think I know they didn't work? Right. Yeah.
00:43:41.700
Trial and error. You, you know, so, and when I started, I just sort of looked at other people and go,
00:43:46.380
what are they doing? Oh yeah. He's doing that thing. I guess I'm supposed to do that too.
00:43:50.340
So, uh, audiences are, you know, for example, sometimes you'll see, um, somebody try to use,
00:43:55.660
uh, some sort of physical gimmick to get you to see something differently. So for example,
00:44:00.960
they'll say, okay, turn your head to the left and look, you look backwards. Okay. Now come back,
00:44:07.100
you know, look at me. They say, okay, now I want you to turn your left, turn your head to the left
00:44:11.200
farther than you went the first time, farther than you think you could go and look all the way
00:44:16.720
around as far as you can. And then they do that. And they say, okay, come back. Were you able to
00:44:20.680
look farther the second time? And everyone goes, yeah. Go see, you can do more than you think.
00:44:26.560
Well, of course I could look farther. You told me to look farther. You didn't tell me to look.
00:44:30.300
So the instructions were designed, uh, to set that up, to trap them in a way. And it's not a
00:44:37.980
horrible thing, but it may not have the kind of resonance that you want. Uh, so, so that's what
00:44:44.740
we're looking for. We're, we're trying to create a real balance because we have to respect the
00:44:49.920
audience and they're not there for us. We're there for them. It's never about us. It's always about
00:44:55.640
them. So Michael, if someone is listening to this and they think, you know, yeah, this makes perfect
00:44:59.840
sense. I need to learn more of this stuff. What are one or two ways that we can improve our
00:45:05.180
presenting and public speaking skills? One of the things that I recommend you do
00:45:09.520
anytime you're presenting in public, whether you're leading a team meeting or giving a speech
00:45:14.380
in a conference room at a hotel, try your best not to look down when you are communicating with
00:45:21.560
the audience, unless it's a choice, unless you're looking at the floor for a reason, because what
00:45:25.920
happens often to people, and you'll start to notice them when you notice this, when you see
00:45:29.340
people speaking, uh, giving speeches, they will, they will share some of their thoughts
00:45:34.340
and then they don't know where they're going next. So they look down at the ground and then
00:45:39.000
they come up and they start their next thing. And then they finish that train of thought.
00:45:43.300
And then they look down again and they'll often do it while pacing. So they'll pace to one side,
00:45:48.180
finish a thought, look down, find their next thought, look up, pace to the other side while saying it,
00:45:52.920
finish the thought, look down. Uh, and so one of the reasons where we do that is because we might
00:46:00.280
not, a, we're not, maybe not well rehearsed enough. So we're not sure what's coming next,
00:46:04.460
or we do forget where we are. And we're afraid if we look at the audience, it'll make it worse.
00:46:09.940
And they'll see that we don't know what we're going to say. Right. The fact of the matter is
00:46:14.900
they do know, you don't know what you're going to say next because they see you looking at the
00:46:18.440
ground. In fact, what happens is if you stay connected with them and really hold the moment
00:46:26.100
that you just finished, as you're thinking about what comes next, they will often not realize that
00:46:32.180
you're not sure what's coming next. They're just waiting and they're connecting with you around what
00:46:37.400
you just said. And you talk a lot about silence as well and how powerful that can be too.
00:46:42.580
Very powerful on stage on, on podcasts, you know, you can use it, but it's a little more difficult
00:46:49.240
on the air because, you know, they might just think that it stopped. What's going on here?
00:46:57.140
Yeah. So dead air, dead air on the radio. Um, so yeah, so that's something that, you know,
00:47:02.840
we've got to watch out for, but if you stay connected to them, you'll often remember your
00:47:06.560
thought more quickly because you had just looked at somebody when you said your last thought. And then
00:47:12.340
when you see them again, it connects you to what you were going to say next. Again, it's not the
00:47:17.100
worst thing in the world if you do it every once in a while, but if it becomes habitual,
00:47:20.440
if it, if it's a habit to keep looking down every time you want to, you need to think, then,
00:47:26.600
then you're disconnecting from that person. Now, if you're in a one-on-one conversation,
00:47:30.680
you're not staring into somebody's eyes and not, you know, looking, you don't avert your,
00:47:35.480
you know, you're just that scary. You don't want to staring. Of course we're not suggesting you do that.
00:47:41.860
But those are a couple of things you can do. And again, the, the staying away from absolutes will
00:47:45.840
often make you very, very appealing because it leaves room for other people's perspectives.
00:47:51.220
Well, Michael, we're winding down on time a little bit. I want to ask you a couple more
00:47:53.900
questions. The first one, I prepared you this for this a little bit, and this is something that I
00:47:57.820
ask all of my guests because I think it's important we understand and have some different
00:48:00.960
perspectives. What do you think it means to be a man? Well, when you've had all the children you want
00:48:07.480
to have get a vasectomy, you know, I have actually, I'm getting one Thursday.
00:48:12.440
Are you really? I have not. I don't know. I don't know about that. My wife and I have
00:48:17.080
talked about that. I don't know which direction we're going yet. Well, I have not revealed that
00:48:21.060
in public before. So this is my, Hey, no, but in all seriousness, you know, these are real big
00:48:26.140
issues to, to think about, you know, and we know that we're done. So we're doing that, but in all
00:48:31.140
seriousness, responsibility, I talked about that earlier. I think that's, you know, my job is to
00:48:36.860
take care of my family, to take care of my clients, to take care of my friends, take care of,
00:48:41.840
you know, the people that I have, uh, I have in my life. And, you know, even if, you know, my ex-wife
00:48:47.780
and I are not married, but I still take care of her and, you know, when I can and what way she needs
00:48:52.680
me to. So that's, I think that's our job as, as men, as people is to fulfill our responsibilities
00:49:00.140
to the best of our abilities. I like that. So Michael, if someone's listening to this
00:49:04.800
and they've liked what you have to say, they realize that they need some guidance, some
00:49:09.300
direction, some information about presenting public speaking, all of those things we talked
00:49:13.700
about, how do we connect with you? How do we learn about your book and even purchase a copy if
00:49:17.380
we're interested? Well, steal the show is sold anywhere books are sold. It's actually number four
00:49:20.780
on the wall street journal bestseller list right now. Nice. Good. And if you want to get bonuses
00:49:27.080
with the book, a lot of, uh, really good bonuses, you can do that at steal the show.com. So steal
00:49:34.520
the show.com. You can also go ahead and listen to, uh, steal the show with Michael Port, uh, right now
00:49:39.120
is up in the top of the charts, um, on iTunes and the new and notable. And it's very, very hard
00:49:46.740
hitting. It's very content oriented. You know, we talked about a lot of ideas today and what
00:49:50.660
I've done with the podcast is do a lot of short episodes, uh, that are really tight and all
00:49:55.040
how to drift, not all how to driven, but mostly have to driven. Right. And then also, uh, if you
00:50:02.280
want to learn more about public speaking, you can go to heroic public speaking.com.
00:50:08.440
Perfect. We'll make sure guys that we have all the links to all of that. I can tell you, I've gone,
00:50:13.300
I read Michael's book, book yourself solid. I bought the illustrated guide Michael as well
00:50:18.620
that you just put out. I've got steal the show. I've listened to the podcast and I've
00:50:22.320
been through heroic public speaking. So guys, if you're interested in improving your skills,
00:50:26.580
this is the resource for you, Michael, I really appreciate you taking your time and being on the
00:50:31.620
show and imparting some of your wisdom with us today. It's my pleasure. I really appreciate it.
00:50:35.260
There you have it, men. Mr. Michael Port sharing with us what it takes to be a better presenter,
00:50:39.920
performer, and pitcher. Again, you'll want to check out a couple of resources that we have this
00:50:43.840
week to follow up on the show. First order of man.com slash zero three six to gain access to
00:50:50.020
the links and the highlights and the next facebook.com slash groups slash order of man to
00:50:55.920
continue the conversation with over 1200 men that we have on our exclusive Facebook group. Also,
00:51:01.300
if you would, and if you haven't done so already, will you please leave your rating review for this
00:51:04.700
podcast as a way to say thank you to me and Michael for this episode. You can do that at order of man.com
00:51:10.200
slash iTunes guys. I look forward to talking to you next week, but until then take action and become
00:51:14.860
the man you were meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're
00:51:20.340
ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join