Order of Man - OoM 036： The Art of Pitching Presenting, and Performing with Michael Port

00:00:00.000 Whether you're pitching your latest idea to a group of investors, vying for a job promotion,

00:00:03.720 or performing in front of a large crowd, learning to become a better public speaker is a skill all

00:00:08.160 men should learn. My guest today, Michael Port, shares with us why every man needs to learn this

00:00:12.320 skill now, how to deliver a killer presentation, and the most common mistakes you'll need to avoid

00:00:17.040 in order to get people on your side. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest,

00:00:22.320 embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up

00:00:27.500 one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:34.800 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day,

00:00:40.200 and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:44.760 Welcome then to the Order of Man podcast. My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the founder of Order of

00:00:49.760 Man. Now, I may not be the expert, but I have been a man all my life, 34 years now, and between myself

00:00:55.380 and our guests, we'll talk about all things manly, the good, the bad, and the ugly. This show is being

00:01:00.500 released Thanksgiving week, so I hope that you have as much to be thankful for about this year

00:01:04.840 that I do. I encourage you to reflect on your year so far and think about all the blessings

00:01:10.620 that each of us have. For me, I have a wonderful family that loves me. I have two thriving businesses

00:01:15.620 that keep me fulfilled, and really important to me today is you guys. I appreciate you. I appreciate

00:01:21.020 your support for the Order, and I truly hope that you're gaining value from these shows and the blog.

00:01:26.880 Now, let's get into this show. I want to give you a couple of quick resources before we get started

00:01:31.500 if you want a further discussion that we're having today. First, you can find all the links, the

00:01:35.720 resources, the best quotes, and the overview for this show at orderofman.com slash 036. Second, if you

00:01:42.420 want to dig into this conversation a bit more beyond what we're talking about here, join us on our

00:01:47.060 Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash orderofman, where we will be talking and debating

00:01:52.800 about the conversation Michael and I have today. Guys, we're going to be talking about all things

00:01:57.360 presentations, performance, and pitching today with Michael Port. Now, he's written six books,

00:02:02.660 including Book Yourself Solid, which, by the way, has transformed my personal financial planning

00:02:07.760 practice. And more recently, he wrote Steal the Show, which, quote, might be the most unique and

00:02:12.560 practical book ever written on the topic of public speaking. He's been called an uncommonly

00:02:16.920 honest author by the Boston Globe, a marketing guru by the Wall Street Journal, a sales guru by

00:02:21.660 the Financial Times, a public speaking phenom by Jonathan Fields, and the best public speaking coach

00:02:27.600 in the world by Lewis Howes. Amazon and 800 CEO Reed have both selected his books as, quote,

00:02:34.320 the best books of the year. Michael Port was once a professional actor. He received his Master in

00:02:39.420 Fine Arts from NYU's graduate acting program, and he's been guest starring on shows and movies like

00:02:44.360 Sex and the City, Law and Order, and in films like Pelican Brief, Down to Earth. He's an expert

00:02:49.520 in communication and business development, and he is the host of the most popular podcast on public

00:02:54.880 speaking and performance, Steal the Show. Michael, glad to have you on the show. Thanks for joining

00:02:59.120 us today. You're welcome. Glad to be here. So I didn't talk to you about this before we started

00:03:03.380 recording, but about three or four years ago, I was sitting on the plane, and I was reading your book,

00:03:09.360 Book Yourself Solid, and I was so excited about that book and what it's done for me and my

00:03:14.040 financial planning practice, and I never in a million years thought I'd have you on the show

00:03:17.720 today. So I'm excited to have you here today. That's really cool. So what do you think got

00:03:21.660 you here today? What do I think got me here with Order of Man? Yeah. I mean, you know, how do you do

00:03:26.740 that in four years? You know, go from reading a book going, I don't think I'd ever talk to this

00:03:30.680 author. Next thing you know, you know, he's going, hey, I'd love to be on your show. That sounds cool.

00:03:35.480 Yeah. You know, I think it's really a matter of following my passions. I've still got my

00:03:38.700 financial planning practice, and I still do that pretty regularly, pretty full time there,

00:03:44.540 but I really followed my passion of helping men become better men. And this was something that I

00:03:49.960 wanted to pursue and something I wanted to grow and something I wanted to develop in. And so I

00:03:53.480 pursued this passion, and it's pretty interesting, the conversations and the people I get to connect

00:03:58.080 with because I'm passionate about something. That's fantastic. I love that you focus on finance,

00:04:02.740 too, because I think this is an area that we don't, certainly we don't learn about it when we're

00:04:08.460 younger, but we often don't pay enough attention to our future until we get there.

00:04:14.640 Right, right.

00:04:15.820 And, you know, I've always been great at spending money. I'm an expert at that. I really am very-

00:04:20.440 And most people are, right?

00:04:21.160 Very good at that. Yeah. But, you know, I didn't save much when I was younger. And when I got serious

00:04:27.000 about it, I got really serious about it because my future father-in-law, I'm getting married next

00:04:32.640 month, month after next, he said, you know, the first 30 years are for learning. Next 30 years are for

00:04:38.440 earning. And the next 30 years are for giving. And I thought, that's fantastic. But in order to do

00:04:44.200 all of that giving, you've got to earn. So now I work, so I don't have to work. That's the goal.

00:04:51.340 And I spent a lot of time focusing on saving my money and investing it properly.

00:04:56.280 No, that's good. I wish more people had that same philosophy or that same approach. It's amazing how

00:05:01.260 many people I talk with who have no real idea of how money works and the power that it can be,

00:05:05.480 not only in your life, but to be able to help others as well.

00:05:08.280 I'll just say one more thing about it. Obviously, this is not what I'm here to talk about. But

00:05:12.460 I just want to say this because I was one of those people who was intimidated by it because I thought

00:05:17.260 it was all numbers. And I mean, the jargon is just ridiculous. And I felt that I couldn't take 0.93

00:05:26.020 control over it for whatever reason until I didn't, until I said, that's ridiculous. I can learn 0.77

00:05:31.480 whatever I want to learn. I mean, if I have an interest in it, I'll learn it. And once I did,

00:05:37.420 the whole world opened up to me. So don't be afraid of it is what I'm saying.

00:05:42.840 Absolutely. And that comes with any area in life, including what we're going to talk about today,

00:05:46.280 right? That's right.

00:05:47.240 So you make the case that learning to perform, learning how to give presentations or even keynote

00:05:54.180 speeches isn't just about that. It isn't just for those select few who want to give those

00:05:59.540 presentations to thousands of people at a time, but it's skills that we as men can use

00:06:05.060 on an everyday basis. So tell me a little bit about that.

00:06:08.360 Yeah, absolutely. Anytime you're speaking, you're speaking in public, right? You're public speaking.

00:06:13.980 People are learning about you based on the way that you interact with them verbally. And if you

00:06:21.020 think about your life, your life is in large part determined, the quality of your life is in large

00:06:28.440 part determined by how, how well you perform during life's high stakes situations. And if you fall

00:06:36.380 flat during those situations, you know, you have flat life, but if you can shine when the spotlight's

00:06:43.160 on you, well, then you can do big things in the world. And this, this applies to job interviews,

00:06:48.340 negotiations, sales pitches, you know, even meeting your future in-laws for the first time is a type

00:06:54.200 of performance. Sure. But it's very important to me that we define performance because sometimes when

00:07:01.880 people hear the word performance, they equate it with fake, right? Right. That somebody is being

00:07:09.900 fake or phony and good performance is not about fake behavior. Good performance is about authentic

00:07:18.980 behavior in a manufactured situation. And many of the situations we find ourselves in are manufactured.

00:07:27.680 They're made up. A job interview is a very manufactured, constrained type of situation that

00:07:35.000 you are put into. And the way the job interview is run is by the person who sets it up. You have to

00:07:42.840 fit inside that particular constraint. A negotiation, same thing. It's a very manufactured environment.

00:07:48.240 And so how we perform authentically in those spaces is what's going to determine the quality of our

00:07:57.620 life. And I started as an actor. That was my first career. And I have a master's degree from the

00:08:04.260 graduate acting program at NYU. When I was younger, I didn't see it. But now, now I realize that so much

00:08:11.140 of what I've accomplished over the years is due to the fact that I was trained in the theater.

00:08:18.600 So I had a modicum of success. I was on shows like Sex and the City and Third Watch, Law and Order,

00:08:23.780 All My Children. I was in films like Down to Earth, The Pelican Brief, Last Call, The Believer. And then

00:08:28.300 I did a lot of voiceovers. Voiceovers was my bread and butter. Now you might not, you might not be able

00:08:32.560 to tell right now because I'm pretty sick, but, uh, but you still got that golden voice. I can hear.

00:08:37.640 Well, that's very kind. I appreciate that. But I used to do voiceovers for, uh, Braun,

00:08:43.180 Coors Beer, Budweiser, MTV, Home and Garden Network, All My Children, Pizza Hut. I used to do

00:08:51.340 1-800-CALL-ATT. You know, that, that was, that was my bread and butter, but I left the business

00:08:55.980 in part because I wasn't getting what I wanted as fast as I wanted it. And I was young and impatient

00:09:02.840 and immature. And I didn't realize that sometimes it takes time to achieve the big goals. It's not

00:09:10.500 all going to happen right away. And, you know, I wasn't entitled to it, although I think I thought

00:09:16.840 I was. And that's been one of the greatest lessons of my life is to know that I'm not entitled to

00:09:25.480 anything. I've got to earn everything that I want. And sometimes it takes a while, but if you're

00:09:32.180 willing to, if I'm willing to, you know, commit to the pursuit of mastery, uh, and put my heart on

00:09:39.260 the line, uh, then often good things will come. One of the things that I discovered in, in retrospect

00:09:46.060 was that I would sometimes go into an audition and pretend that I didn't care because if I admitted

00:09:56.700 how much I wanted it, if I admitted how much I cared and I didn't get it, what would that mean?

00:10:05.240 Right. Does that mean that I don't have what it takes that I'm not enough? You know, I remember I

00:10:09.720 did that for, I was testing for a film called kiss the girls and that was with Morgan Friedman and it

00:10:14.860 was to play the cop opposite Morgan Friedman, the one who turns out to be the killer. Right. And I,

00:10:19.060 it was a big deal at the time for me. And I remember kind of going, well, you know, I don't know if it's

00:10:23.220 a great script and I don't really, I don't know if I want to get, you know, typecast in this kind 1.00

00:10:28.100 of role, all this is total BS. I mean, it's absolutely BS. And then this way, if I didn't

00:10:33.180 get it, I could go, well, you know, look, I wasn't that interested in it anyway. And I didn't realize

00:10:38.880 I was doing it at the time, but I think that it's very hard to get what you want unless you really

00:10:44.680 admit what you want. If you put it out there in the world, uh, and go for it. And at least this is,

00:10:50.080 you know, I can only speak for myself. This has been the case here, but, but what I learned as

00:10:55.060 a performer in my training and in my experience has applied to so many different aspects of life.

00:11:01.300 And I got my first job when I left acting, I talked my way into a job for which I was completely

00:11:07.800 unqualified by looking at the process, just like I looked at the process of creating a character

00:11:16.260 in a play or a TV show. And what people don't realize about actors is that they think the actor

00:11:24.180 is faking emotions. The actor is not fake. Not maybe the, the good actor is not faking emotions.

00:11:29.940 The, the good actor knows that they're in a manufactured environment. Like Tom Hanks knows

00:11:33.740 that he's, of course he knows it's a movie that he's wearing a costume and you know, he's on a set,

00:11:39.300 but when he is what you see him experiencing, he actually experiences it. He's feeling those

00:11:45.600 feelings and that's an intense way to live, but it's an honest way to work as a performer.

00:11:52.540 And so when I looked at this job interview, I started to think about, well, what kind of character

00:11:57.040 do I need to create based on who I really am? I own different parts of my personality. Uh, how do I

00:12:03.600 amplify those to play the character that is right for the role that they want to cast? And so I started

00:12:09.900 to look at my backstory and see how it connects. How does it add up? Sure. And, and it was really

00:12:17.920 remarkable how I was, I was able to go in there. Like I had none of the qualifications that they were

00:12:22.100 looking for, none of the certifications that they required, but I was able to make my case that they

00:12:28.560 should hire me because I was in fact, what they were looking for. They just didn't realize it.

00:12:34.500 Interesting. When, so my question is when you, just to go back a second, because you talked about

00:12:40.240 having this mindset of, Oh, I don't really care about the job. I don't really care about the part.

00:12:44.940 Were you sabotaging yourself? Were there some things that you were doing either consciously or

00:12:49.520 subconsciously that kept you from actually getting the role or getting the job or whatever it may be?

00:12:53.600 Absolutely. I think that our ability to handle responsibility is what influences our level of

00:13:01.280 success. So I think the amount of success that we have is often directly proportionate to the amount

00:13:08.820 of responsibility that we can handle. And the more responsibility we can handle, the more that we can

00:13:16.460 handle at one time, we can deal with all of the difficult family issues that are coming up. We can deal

00:13:22.540 with the employee issues that are happening. We can deal with cashflow issues. We can deal with,

00:13:28.800 you know, we can create a big things and new things at the same time, but all of these things

00:13:33.220 are going on at the same time. And if we can handle all of these things at once, we can tend to play a

00:13:38.720 pretty big game. But the people that I know that can really only handle one thing at a time,

00:13:44.340 they have a hard time growing professionally. It's funny that you say that because I want to go back to

00:13:50.660 that conversation we're having about money, a lot of people will always ask me, how do I build more

00:13:54.500 wealth and how do I make more money? And I think before we move into that, we need to first figure

00:13:58.740 out how is it that you're handling your current level of wealth? Because if you're not handling

00:14:02.040 that correctly, there's no way in a million years, even if you won the lottery, that you would be able

00:14:06.800 to produce more wealth in your life because you don't know, understand how to manage the limited

00:14:10.680 amount that you currently have.

00:14:11.800 Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It makes perfect sense to me. I get that.

00:14:15.160 So that's what I try to do. I try to work on my ability to handle responsibility because, you know,

00:14:22.080 sometimes, you know, even when you get the things you ask for, sometimes you go, I don't want to do

00:14:29.540 this right now. I'm tired. Like, you know, I'm sick as a dog right now, but I'm not canceling

00:14:34.680 podcast interviews. I'm not, I got to do what I got to do. That's my job.

00:14:38.660 Right. And look, obviously, you know, sometimes, yeah, I'd cancel a day of interviews if I was

00:14:44.540 at 104 fever and I couldn't get out of bed. Of course. Of course. Yeah. But if I was,

00:14:49.000 if I was expected on Oprah that day, oh, I'd be there. Yeah. Right. Yeah. There's nothing that's

00:14:53.920 going to keep you from that. No. And that's one of the, you know, one of the principles that the

00:14:57.380 performer knows is the show must go on no matter what. And when you are in a performance space,

00:15:06.160 I don't mean literally, I mean the way that you see the world, then you behave differently. For

00:15:14.020 example, one of the performance principles that I discussed in steal the show is the principle

00:15:21.760 of having a very clear objective. Now people talk about goals. So, so it's not a new concept that

00:15:29.880 there's things that you want to go after, but I talk about it from this perspective. When an actor

00:15:35.400 develops a character, they get very, very clear on what objectives the character is trying to

00:15:40.300 achieve. And then they, as an actor choose different tactics, uh, and really fire up their

00:15:48.420 motivation to achieve that goal. And often the way that the writer has, if the writer's written a

00:15:55.480 powerful script, then there are a lot of obstacles in their way and you have something compelling to

00:16:01.920 watch. And that's how life is, isn't it? You know, of course, yeah. Trials and overcoming those

00:16:06.960 obstacles. That's right. And so, and so if you don't get really clear about your objectives going

00:16:14.040 into any performance situation, then you don't necessarily know what tactics you'll take to

00:16:20.300 overcome the obstacles that get in the way of achieving that objective. Sure. Makes sense. So

00:16:26.720 this is, this is one of the things that helps anytime we are faced with something that is a high

00:16:35.680 stake situation. And if your motivation is so strong, if it's so high that you're willing to

00:16:42.760 do whatever it takes, no matter what, no matter how you feel, if you've got a broken leg, you hobble

00:16:46.720 there. You know, uh, Marcus Luttrell who wrote the book, uh, the lone survivor, and then they, uh,

00:16:53.940 produced a film based on it with Mark Wahlberg. He's the Navy SEAL, uh, who was the only, um, man to

00:17:00.940 survive, uh, really, really, really, uh, difficult, uh, firefight in Afghanistan. Uh, he crawled for

00:17:11.320 seven miles with bullets in his body, his body half paralyzed, broken jaw, broken nose, probably 10

00:17:20.000 other broken bones. Uh, he crawled for seven miles because he wanted to live. Well, he had an

00:17:25.300 objective and a pretty strong motivation to do it. He's not going to say, well, I'll just, you know,

00:17:29.340 nevermind. He, he did everything in his power to live. And, and he did, he got lucky, you know,

00:17:35.200 that he lived, but he was involved in the process of getting lucky. So I mentioned this because my

00:17:41.780 fiance, Amy and I, uh, sat down and do a podcast the other day together for steal the show for my

00:17:46.800 podcast. And both of us were tired that morning. We were kind of a little bit edgy, not the best

00:17:53.340 mood ever. And within minutes of pressing record, our energy changed, our state of beings changed

00:18:01.480 because now we had to perform for our audience. We had to deliver on a promise. We had to make a

00:18:08.380 promise to our audience and deliver on a promise. And when you put yourself in that situation, when the

00:18:14.640 promises are, are big, the stakes are high, then your physical state will change. Your mental state

00:18:20.900 will change. The way you go after things will change. And after a 30 minute episode that we

00:18:26.400 recorded, we, I stopped the recording and Amy looks at me and she goes, Oh, we should just do a

00:18:31.160 podcast. Anytime we're grumpy. It worked out that well. It worked out that well because we couldn't

00:18:37.900 show up there grumpy. We couldn't be like, Hey, what's up? This is still the show. I'm pissed off. I'm

00:18:43.700 here. Of course. Right. Yeah. How would that go over? Yeah. How would that go over with the people

00:18:47.980 that I serve? You know? So we always have to keep earning the attention that we get. And, uh,

00:18:53.120 and I think it changes your state of being when you look at it from a performance situation and

00:18:59.020 authentic one, of course, but it's not inauthentic to, to bring your best self to a performance.

00:19:05.260 Even when you're in a bad mood, that's not inauthentic. That's a smart thing to do.

00:19:09.280 Yeah. So how do you practice authenticity? Because I know that kind of, even, even that

00:19:14.180 just sounds a little bit like an oxymoron practice authenticity. So how do you get better

00:19:19.080 at, and I think the term you use is actually finding your voice. And I think those two are

00:19:23.780 probably parallel if I'm understanding that correctly. Yeah, they are. As Fitzgerald said,

00:19:27.740 and I paraphrase, uh, you know, he, he said that the ability to hold two opposing thoughts in your

00:19:34.320 head at the same time is, uh, is a sign of a very intelligent man. And, uh, and that's exactly

00:19:40.340 what it is. This idea that you are both authentic and performing at the same time, those two things

00:19:47.780 can go hand in hand. And let's, let's just take, for example, if you're giving a speech or a toast,

00:19:53.000 let's just take that. For example, if, if you do not prepare at all, you might feel lost when you're

00:20:01.960 giving the presentation, right? You might not know what's coming next. And you might seem stiff

00:20:08.060 and inauthentic to the audience because you're not making an emotional connection with them.

00:20:15.340 But if you are so well prepared that you can go into that speech as if you're a blank slate,

00:20:21.640 but what you deliver to them comes to you in the moment, based on what you've prepared,

00:20:28.100 you are able to make a better connection with them. And as a result, a more authentic connection

00:20:35.300 with them. I had an experience. Um, I've, I've blessed my children and as I bless my children,

00:20:41.160 I really think about, I pray and I think about what it is that I want to talk about. And I was

00:20:45.740 talking with somebody and they said, you know, you're preparing for this, but you should really

00:20:49.660 be listening to the spirit in the moment. And my thought in the conversation I had with them is

00:20:54.020 just because I prepared and just because I've thought about it beforehand, the thoughts and

00:20:58.480 the things that I want to talk about in that blessing doesn't make it inauthentic. It, like

00:21:03.660 you said, it allows me to get all my thoughts out on paper, have a clear head so that in the moment I

00:21:09.340 can listen to that inspiration and use that in plugin and fill in the gaps. So that makes total

00:21:13.760 sense to me. Sometimes, sometimes people resist preparation or rehearsal for any kind of

00:21:20.160 performance, a sales meeting, the job interview, um, the negotiation or, or actually giving a speech

00:21:29.660 because they feel that they feel that when, when they rehearse they're stiff. And I think that

00:21:38.580 they're probably right. I think they really are making sense because they've tried some rehearsal in

00:21:43.780 the past and then they were stiff when they went and tried to perform what they had rehearsed. And

00:21:49.720 it's in large part because they only did a little bit of rehearsal. If you do a little bit of

00:21:55.000 rehearsal, then when you're in the, in the performance itself, you are thinking about what

00:22:02.380 you did in rehearsal, trying to remember that. So you can do that when you're giving the performance.

00:22:08.800 Now, what happens is you're not in the moment. You're trying to recall something that happened

00:22:13.300 before, as opposed to knowing what you're doing next. Those are two different things.

00:22:17.740 And authenticity requires that you're in the moment listening. And this is another one of the

00:22:22.680 principles that I address and steal the show because performing is not about doing only it's

00:22:30.300 about listening and being affected by what the other person has to say, what they are doing,

00:22:36.920 and then responding authentically to them. But being able to manage your emotions,

00:22:46.220 control your body, control your breathing, and choose how you're going to respond based on what

00:22:53.600 comes at you. So when I got divorced, I was divorced in 2008. This was, yeah, this is a while ago now.

00:23:00.640 So, you know, it was, it was a little bit, it was a little bit difficult at first. My ex-wife and I

00:23:04.980 have a great relationship now. We're close, really close with her fiance and, and the world is good

00:23:12.320 around that particular issue. But at first it was a little bit challenging and we were arguing over

00:23:17.180 some things and someone gave me a great piece of advice. He said, listen, just focus on your goal

00:23:23.780 and hear what she's saying. And even if it pisses you off, even if it, you know, gets your blood

00:23:31.520 boiling, choose a response that helps you get closer to your goal, not just respond to what

00:23:40.300 she said because it pissed you off. I said, okay, I'll try it. And it opened the world to me. And

00:23:45.980 that's, and it reminded me, you know, all of these experiences that I've had, they kept reminding me

00:23:49.500 about how all of the training that I had as an actor applies to all these different

00:23:53.660 aspects of life, because that's what you do as an actor. You take in what the other person is

00:23:58.320 saying, you absorb it, and then you choose your response, but it should be an authentic response.

00:24:04.880 And I don't think there's anything manipulative about saying, you know, I'm going to go after

00:24:08.800 what I want because we have agendas period. And I think it's, I think a good idea to be honest

00:24:18.180 about our agendas, to recognize that we have them, to recognize that other people have them.

00:24:22.880 And that's okay. Right. I think it's actually important to have an agenda, to have a goal

00:24:27.140 and an outline of what you want to accomplish. Of course, in any area of life. Absolutely.

00:24:31.020 So that doesn't mean that you don't compromise and that you're a difficult person. No, no,

00:24:35.000 no, of course not. But, but nonetheless, there's something we want, like, you know, I want to

00:24:39.820 sell books. So I go on podcast is, I don't think anybody would fault me for that.

00:24:45.040 No. Yeah. So I think be honest about your agenda, but when you are in a performance situation

00:24:53.380 and you've made a promise to somebody or to an audience, then your job is to deliver on that.

00:25:01.640 And if your agenda lines up with the delivery of that promise, then you're thinking smart.

00:25:06.760 But if your agenda is more important than the delivery of the promise, well, then the audience

00:25:14.020 and the audience could be one person sitting across the table from you, then they are not

00:25:18.620 interested. You see, that's, what's key. You say, look, here's my agenda, right? And here's my

00:25:23.580 promise to you. And if you deliver on the promise, right, then you generally are able to achieve

00:25:28.920 your objective. But if you say, here's my agenda, here's my promise, but you don't deliver on the

00:25:34.140 promise, you know, then people won't be inclined to work with you. So I think that commitment

00:25:39.720 making and fulfilling is what, what demonstrates who we are and builds our reputation.

00:25:46.200 How do you go from having your objective or your goals or what it is that you want to accomplish

00:25:51.500 to now that I've identified that, let's just take a job interview. For example, my objective is that

00:25:56.900 I want to land this job. I want to land this position or get this promotion. How do you then take

00:26:01.800 that and come up with the tactics or strategies? I don't know the right term to use, but how do you

00:26:08.960 then place it into practice so that you can start moving towards that goal?

00:26:12.520 So, so let's, first you look at your backstory. What do you have in your life? What have you done

00:26:19.720 in your life that is relevant to what is needed in that particular situation? Now, if you're not sure

00:26:25.540 what's needed, you know, what's called for, then you want to get really clear on that. You know,

00:26:29.600 what, uh, what is needed to get a yes. Right. And sometimes what we do is we look for what they

00:26:37.020 want rather than what we think is needed. You know, if we're really not sure and we are not

00:26:43.560 sure what they want, then we've got to do some investigation. But one of the things that we

00:26:47.480 often do is we work for approval rather than results. And so we think, all right, what are they

00:26:52.500 looking for? What are they looking for? What are they looking for? When the fact of the matter is

00:26:55.800 they're asking you to come in and show them, ah, here's, that's the guy we were looking for.

00:27:02.780 Interesting. Yeah. That makes sense. That's an interesting perspective for sure.

00:27:05.820 So I'll give you, I'll give you a real life example. And, and a lot of what I wrote about

00:27:09.860 and steal the show, I took from the world of acting and apply it to real life. When, when I was an

00:27:14.600 actor, I'd go in for an audition and I get the script and I think about it. What is the, what are

00:27:18.160 they looking for? What's the casting director looking for? Or what's the director looking for?

00:27:22.220 Or what's the producer looking for? And then I'd go in and I, I try to perform what I thought they

00:27:26.340 were looking for. And then I'd try to figure it out in the room. And, you know, that was my focus,

00:27:31.540 but really the casting director just wants to make sure that she doesn't get fired.

00:27:37.740 Right. And, and I, I, I say that, you know, a little, you know, tongue in cheek because

00:27:43.600 often what happens is the, the director will, the producer will hire a casting director. The

00:27:49.100 casting director doesn't bring in, uh, actors that the director likes and then they'll fire

00:27:54.480 that cast director and hire another cast director. And who do you think that cast director brings in? 0.99

00:27:59.080 Yes. There's only a handful of people that get the auditions in New York and LA.

00:28:04.480 So they're just, you know, they said, look, just give me something, show me something that I can,

00:28:08.380 you know, bring to the director. Now then you're in front of the director and the director is

00:28:12.000 thinking, shit, I hope this actor doesn't ask me anything. Cause you know, all I've done 0.98

00:28:16.500 his music videos for the last 10 years. And this is the first time they've given me big

00:28:20.240 budget to do a big film. So I don't know what to tell them. They just want you to come in as that

00:28:24.780 character. Right. And then the producer, if you're a guy and you're not famous, they're just thinking,

00:28:30.260 can I, can I, I probably could get him really cheap. Can I get him, can I give him this role?

00:28:35.380 I like him, uh, and still sell the movie. Do I have enough star power without him? And if you're a

00:28:40.120 woman, they're probably thinking, Oh, will she go out with me? And that's, you know, that's,

00:28:44.440 that's the producer's, uh, MO, uh, in the, in Hollywood. So, but I realized, you know,

00:28:50.040 my friends that they became very successful, I don't really think they did that. Not too much.

00:28:55.320 I mean, Michael Hall was a classmate of mine, good friend of mine. When I was in grad school,

00:28:58.500 uh, he plays Dexter, uh, Daniel J Kim was a good friend of mine, classmate. Uh, when I was in grad

00:29:03.660 school, he's a, on Hawaii five. Oh, he was, he was in lost for years. And, and I remember, you know,

00:29:09.680 they were the kind of folks who'd often go in and they would, they would think about what they

00:29:14.360 thought the character should be like. And that made a big difference, uh, in the way they were

00:29:21.140 perceived in that audition process. So when I went in for that job interview, that first job interview

00:29:28.620 that I ever had, I mean, it was really the first real interview that I'd ever had. And I was in my

00:29:33.560 twenties because I had been acting and I pitched them an idea. I said, look, here's, here's what it,

00:29:42.080 it suggests that you're looking for on this job description. I get that. It makes perfect sense

00:29:48.340 to me. Here's what I think you really need. And I outlined it. And there's a three part formula

00:29:56.720 that I always use. Anytime I'm trying to pitch something, me or some, or something else. And the

00:30:01.060 first is demonstrating that it's going to be successful, that this will work. And that means

00:30:05.400 you have to very, you have to have a very well thought out, very logical, uh, explanation for

00:30:11.420 why you think the thing you're pitching is going to work. And if they say, no, I don't think that's

00:30:16.880 going to work. That's it. That's done. Like if they didn't buy the fact that you don't need to move

00:30:20.720 to two and three, right? Exactly. I mean, you're just, you're done. I mean, they're, they're done.

00:30:24.580 You might keep going, you know, they'll give you the, they'll say, they'll humor you and let you keep

00:30:28.160 going, but they know they're already out. Sure. So I had to, I had to make a presentation. I had

00:30:32.600 to pitch to them that hiring somebody who was an actor, who was not from the fitness business was

00:30:37.360 actually a better idea because I knew performance, what this particular division of the business

00:30:42.420 needed was a performance element. I knew production, this business needs production. Um, and I knew, uh,

00:30:49.380 talent and development of talent because that's what I, that's what I did. I mean, I was in the,

00:30:55.100 you know, the theater business, the film business. Um, and I had experience managing projects because

00:31:01.640 when I was in school, they made us manage projects and big, you know, theater projects are, uh, take a

00:31:07.640 lot of, uh, project management. I said, but you're not looking for any of those things on your job

00:31:11.600 description. But when you look at this particular role that you need to cast here, that's what's most

00:31:18.400 important. And you're casting the wrong people. You're casting people who are really good at fitness

00:31:23.420 and you're casting them on the business side, but those two things don't always marry up.

00:31:27.560 Right. So I had to make this pitch. And of course it's risky. And that's, you know, uh, uh, that's

00:31:32.300 another one of the principles that I outlined in the second part of the book is how to take really

00:31:35.600 smart calculated risks because the people that are compelling are ones who take risks, people that

00:31:41.660 play it safe, not so compelling. And fortunately in that case, they went, yeah, you know what?

00:31:47.000 I think that makes sense. I could see someone like that being successful in this position.

00:31:51.760 Okay. Then I had to demonstrate that it, this was worth their resources. This is worth their

00:31:56.900 time, right? This is because they've got to take a little risk to bringing somebody else

00:32:01.840 in, uh, who's not normal. Uh, and, and it's, especially in the corporate world, people have

00:32:08.640 to explain themselves. You know, they've got to prove to their boss why they're, why they're

00:32:13.180 making this decision. And if it doesn't go well, uh, they're going to need an out. So it's

00:32:19.540 often why they hire the safe, uh, person because they say, oh, well, look, uh, all the T's were 0.59

00:32:24.640 crossed and the I's were dotted. I don't know why he didn't work out. It's not my fault. 0.64

00:32:28.820 Right. They're not doing anything outside of the box that's in and then things that have

00:32:31.940 worked in the past, right? Exactly. Right. So, uh, what performers know is that part of

00:32:36.440 our job is to break the rules, not just to break the rules, not just to be rebellious, but

00:32:40.100 to create something that didn't exist before to create something better in its place.

00:32:44.740 And then it sounds like what you're saying is that, you know, in the acting world, but then also

00:32:49.980 other scenarios that I think people are looking for somebody who's willing to take some initiative

00:32:54.220 and take charge of the situation and come with their own unique perspective. Absolutely. Another,

00:32:58.960 another chapter is devoted to making choices early and often. If you don't make a lot of choices or

00:33:04.260 you perseverate, meaning you go back and forth and back and forth and back and forth, not a lot

00:33:08.020 happens, but if we make strong choices, then we can move the needle forward. And, you know,

00:33:13.300 we're trying to produce action in our life, right? Action will create some traction, but inaction

00:33:20.140 won't. So that's that second piece is they say, is this worth my time? Right. And if the answer is no,

00:33:31.360 then that's it. Then it's over. But if the answer is yes, then they'll ask a third question is,

00:33:35.800 is this person the one who's able to champion this? Are they the one to do this? Because I might have

00:33:41.840 made a case that they're looking for the wrong person. They might've said, Oh, you know what?

00:33:46.700 He's right. That makes sense. I may have made a case that it's worth their time trying to find

00:33:51.000 that person, but I may not have demonstrated that I'm the one. Yeah. You gave somebody else a really

00:33:57.040 good opportunity, right? Exactly. So all of those three points need to be hit. And that's really

00:34:04.380 important. Uh, and you know, that's the, that's the art of the pitch, so to speak. You know, that's,

00:34:09.640 it's one of the ways you can go in there and steal the show. You've got that structure,

00:34:12.800 that formula. And you know, you might be in, in four different interviews, or you might have

00:34:18.940 four different negotiations or four different sales meetings. And each meeting will have,

00:34:24.420 you know, different focus, different agenda, but you keep those three points top of mind and keep

00:34:29.700 making sure that you've got yeses in all of those areas. Every time you re revisit that conversation

00:34:35.640 with somebody, you know, are they still a yes on one? Are they, are they still a yes on two? Cause

00:34:40.700 now I'm working to get them a three, but if they're not, I'm not convinced that they're a hundred

00:34:45.440 percent yes on the number two. Well, let's get back to that. And let me see if I can steer the

00:34:48.980 conversation back there. Yeah, no, that's nice. And I can see that it can translate to all areas,

00:34:54.300 all areas of life or, or presenting in general. What are some of the, uh, the common mistakes that you

00:35:00.080 see people make or that you, you hear, or you see, and maybe you cringe. I mean,

00:35:04.380 that's what I'm really interested in. Where are some areas that we can improve as presenters?

00:35:08.800 Well, I, I really don't cringe. I think you can be a performer or a critic, but I don't think you

00:35:13.680 can be both. And, and I think it's because, you know, one of the reasons that we are afraid to

00:35:19.860 perform is because we're afraid of rejection. We're afraid of looking stupid, being told that 0.99

00:35:23.860 we're stupid. Uh, or having people talk about us, you know, behind our back, you know, sitting in 1.00

00:35:28.480 the stall in the bathroom and hearing two people walk in, we're like that dude was, you know?

00:35:33.780 Yeah. Right. Right. I know. You don't want that. Yeah. That's not, you don't want that. So what we

00:35:38.240 do is, uh, you know, is we just, we just play it really safe because we don't want that to happen.

00:35:44.060 And then when we're in a situation where we want to perform, right, this is the performer's paradox.

00:35:48.320 You want to perform, but you also don't want to screw up. So you have two intentions. I really

00:35:51.580 want to perform. I really don't want to screw up. Well, those two things cancel each other out.

00:35:56.880 Yeah. I want to take risks, but I want to be safe. Right. So I, I say if, cause look,

00:36:01.700 the voices of judgment in your head are really powerful. There's two types of critics. There's

00:36:06.680 critics in the cheap seats or in this, in the bathroom, right. That like to push others down 0.65

00:36:11.080 and lift themselves up because it's very easy to critique. It's very hard to perform.

00:36:15.920 They're not on stage doing it. Exactly. And then there's the critic in your head. There's the

00:36:20.320 voices that say, you know, you don't know enough. You're not enough. You'll never be enough.

00:36:23.940 But when those voices inside your head are loud, then the voices outside are even louder.

00:36:29.120 Hmm. If I doubt myself all the time and I go read a bad review that somebody writes about one of my

00:36:36.260 books, well, that review is going to stick in my head. But if I, if the voices of judgment are quiet

00:36:42.220 in my head, if I really focus on, you know, on doing the best work that I possibly can do,

00:36:46.900 those voices won't be quite as loud. They still, I can still hear them, but it's not, they're not

00:36:52.060 debilitating. And that's, that's often the fear that people have is these voices, you know,

00:36:56.920 they're just going to be debilitating or it's not even a fear necessarily. It's actually

00:37:01.080 debilitating for them. So the reason I say this is because it's too easy to criticize. It's just

00:37:08.720 way, way too easy to criticize. So if, if I just don't want the devil's advocate in my office,

00:37:13.940 not interested, I'm interested in the people who are, look, I found a hole. Here's a solution.

00:37:19.120 I'm not interested in the one who pokes holes. Right. So with that said, because if you go out there

00:37:23.880 and you, if you're criticizing a lot, a lot, let's say you're sort of MO, then I think it's

00:37:28.820 hard to create because subconsciously you're afraid others are going to do the same thing to

00:37:33.020 you. So what I ask people to do is look at their Facebook page for the last six months or a year,

00:37:37.280 just scroll back through it and look at the posts you've made or the comments you've made on other

00:37:42.300 people's posts. Are they positive or are you negative? Are you making fun of something on a

00:37:49.620 regular basis? Are you critiquing something on a regular basis? Or are you trying to offer a

00:37:55.500 positive perspective or another way to look at it? Or, yeah, I get that. And let's also think about

00:38:01.340 this. If, if the former is the case, then, you know, it might be time to reconsider another way

00:38:06.780 of being, another style of behavior. So that's, so that's that. So with that said, often when,

00:38:12.860 when we start a performance, we, we do a lot of filler, you know, for, give a speech, the beginning

00:38:19.660 of the speech, we separate the beginning of the speech, uh, from the start of the speech.

00:38:27.600 So we talk for a while and, you know, kind of a little bit of this, Oh, I flew in from Duluth.

00:38:32.260 You know, my arms are really tired, you know, that kind of thing. And then we say, okay, let's get

00:38:36.120 started. Well, the fact of the matter is you already started. You already started. You're already

00:38:40.480 on stage. Exactly. As soon as they saw you. So as soon as, uh, they see, or even if, if you're

00:38:46.780 introduced with a bio, right, that's when it starts. It starts with the introduction bio. If,

00:38:51.440 uh, if you're in that kind of, uh, environment. So all, every single thing they hear about you,

00:38:56.960 everything they see about you, it's all part of that particular presentation. Another thing I'd

00:39:02.660 suggest is to stay away from, if you learn anything from this presentation, or if you remember

00:39:10.480 anything, remember this, because what it suggests to the audience is that you didn't really need

00:39:16.260 to give that speech for an hour and nothing else was important, right? Exactly. That maybe only that

00:39:22.860 was the thing they had to remember. And then they shut everything else out. But ideally, you know,

00:39:27.620 all of it is valuable. All of it is important. And some of it will resonate more with some people and,

00:39:32.400 and, and some of it will resonate with, with others. So if that one thing that you want them to

00:39:38.100 remember doesn't resonate with everyone, then they might think, Oh, well, I guess,

00:39:43.300 I guess there wasn't that much in here for me. I mean, I thought that other thing resonated,

00:39:46.840 but maybe not, you know, uh, audiences, you know, they, they, they want to get a lot of value

00:39:53.600 and they want you to ensure that they're getting a lot of value. When you're starting a story,

00:40:01.460 when you're telling a story, you don't need to say, let me tell you a story. Right. Uh,

00:40:05.840 there's a couple of reasons. One, because you're setting it up as something that is supposed to be

00:40:10.160 dramatic. And then they sort of sit back and go, all right, let me see what you got.

00:40:16.540 Yeah. Maybe they're questioning whether that's the validity even of that story. Right. Yeah. Or,

00:40:21.720 yeah. Or you say, let me tell you a story. This is true. Well, shouldn't all of your stories be

00:40:27.040 true? Why didn't you say, yeah. Why do you need to throw that disclaimer in there? Exactly. Or if you're

00:40:31.960 doing any kind of Q and a, uh, I would stay away from saying, that's a great, that's a great question

00:40:36.760 because if you don't say that to every single person, it suggests that the other questions

00:40:42.660 were not great questions. But if you say that's a great question to everyone, then it sounds like

00:40:49.020 you're pandering. Right. Um, any type of audience interaction that you do should be proportionate to

00:40:56.220 the amount of trust that you've earned. So sometimes somebody will start out a speech with a

00:41:00.920 question thinking they're going to get the audience engaged and they want to ask a really

00:41:06.800 powerful question to get them thinking. But if they don't know that audience, they don't,

00:41:12.720 they haven't yet earned the right to ask a sensitive question. So for example, let's say

00:41:17.000 as a financial planner, you went to give a speech. Okay. And these are people that, you know, you wanted

00:41:22.580 to impact positively. And the first thing you asked, as soon as you walked out there, say, okay,

00:41:27.320 raise your hand if you're in debt. Right. Yeah. Who's going to answer, who's going to answer that

00:41:31.600 question? Yeah. I mean, you know, if there's one person in the room, okay, maybe he'll answer that

00:41:36.760 because, but you think, you know, the guy's going to raise his hand with all these people around him

00:41:41.160 that he doesn't know. And he's like, Oh, there's this cute girl next to me. I'm not going to raise

00:41:44.480 my hand. So, so it's just not, or like, raise your hand if you're an alcoholic, like that, you know,

00:41:51.540 unless you're in an AA meeting that just doesn't, it's not, not appropriate. So we want to make sure

00:41:56.600 that anything we're asking of the audience is proportionate to the amount of trust that we've

00:42:00.500 earned. That's funny. You know, the, one of the things that I think about a lot is when a performer

00:42:05.600 will come out or, or somebody giving a presentation and say, are you excited to be here? And, and the

00:42:10.620 audience doesn't get as loud as the presenter would like. And so he asks again, and my thought is,

00:42:16.060 and you're articulating this point, I never thought about this is, well, I don't know if I'm excited

00:42:19.900 yet. I haven't heard you say anything worth getting excited about. Exactly. Right. Exactly.

00:42:23.600 Right. So we also don't want to force the audience to do things that they don't want to do.

00:42:28.860 Sure. It's a balance, you know, we want to push them, but we don't want to punch them.

00:42:35.180 There's a difference and you want to lead them. It's a balance, you know, between just moving them a

00:42:42.440 little farther than they thought they were going to go, uh, but not using, uh, silly tactics to

00:42:49.800 try to get them to do things like that. Uh, it's generally not necessary. And then people,

00:42:54.500 uh, sometimes can resent you for it and go, all right, here comes one of those speeches.

00:42:59.320 Uh, you know, and, and so there's a, there's a negative association, but here's the thing

00:43:03.620 for those who are listening, anybody that has done these kinds of things, there's nothing wrong with

00:43:07.680 you. There's nothing wrong with anybody that has done these things. They're just, this is just

00:43:11.500 what they've seen people do. So we learn by copying. And, uh, you know, if we're going to,

00:43:17.960 if we want to continue to improve, we just learn more and we are exposed to, uh, more experienced

00:43:23.280 teachers over time, et cetera, in different styles of performing and presenting. There isn't one right

00:43:28.900 way. It's an art to me, but we, we, a lot of the things that I teach that I suggest people stay away

00:43:36.640 from are things that I did when I started. How do you think I know they didn't work? Right. Yeah.

00:43:41.700 Trial and error. You, you know, so, and when I started, I just sort of looked at other people and go,

00:43:46.380 what are they doing? Oh yeah. He's doing that thing. I guess I'm supposed to do that too.

00:43:50.340 So, uh, audiences are, you know, for example, sometimes you'll see, um, somebody try to use,

00:43:55.660 uh, some sort of physical gimmick to get you to see something differently. So for example,

00:44:00.960 they'll say, okay, turn your head to the left and look, you look backwards. Okay. Now come back,

00:44:07.100 you know, look at me. They say, okay, now I want you to turn your left, turn your head to the left

00:44:11.200 farther than you went the first time, farther than you think you could go and look all the way

00:44:16.720 around as far as you can. And then they do that. And they say, okay, come back. Were you able to

00:44:20.680 look farther the second time? And everyone goes, yeah. Go see, you can do more than you think.

00:44:26.560 Well, of course I could look farther. You told me to look farther. You didn't tell me to look.

00:44:30.300 So the instructions were designed, uh, to set that up, to trap them in a way. And it's not a

00:44:37.980 horrible thing, but it may not have the kind of resonance that you want. Uh, so, so that's what

00:44:44.740 we're looking for. We're, we're trying to create a real balance because we have to respect the

00:44:49.920 audience and they're not there for us. We're there for them. It's never about us. It's always about

00:44:55.640 them. So Michael, if someone is listening to this and they think, you know, yeah, this makes perfect

00:44:59.840 sense. I need to learn more of this stuff. What are one or two ways that we can improve our

00:45:05.180 presenting and public speaking skills? One of the things that I recommend you do

00:45:09.520 anytime you're presenting in public, whether you're leading a team meeting or giving a speech

00:45:14.380 in a conference room at a hotel, try your best not to look down when you are communicating with

00:45:21.560 the audience, unless it's a choice, unless you're looking at the floor for a reason, because what

00:45:25.920 happens often to people, and you'll start to notice them when you notice this, when you see

00:45:29.340 people speaking, uh, giving speeches, they will, they will share some of their thoughts

00:45:34.340 and then they don't know where they're going next. So they look down at the ground and then

00:45:39.000 they come up and they start their next thing. And then they finish that train of thought.

00:45:43.300 And then they look down again and they'll often do it while pacing. So they'll pace to one side,

00:45:48.180 finish a thought, look down, find their next thought, look up, pace to the other side while saying it,

00:45:52.920 finish the thought, look down. Uh, and so one of the reasons where we do that is because we might

00:46:00.280 not, a, we're not, maybe not well rehearsed enough. So we're not sure what's coming next,

00:46:04.460 or we do forget where we are. And we're afraid if we look at the audience, it'll make it worse.

00:46:09.940 And they'll see that we don't know what we're going to say. Right. The fact of the matter is

00:46:14.900 they do know, you don't know what you're going to say next because they see you looking at the

00:46:18.440 ground. In fact, what happens is if you stay connected with them and really hold the moment

00:46:26.100 that you just finished, as you're thinking about what comes next, they will often not realize that

00:46:32.180 you're not sure what's coming next. They're just waiting and they're connecting with you around what

00:46:37.400 you just said. And you talk a lot about silence as well and how powerful that can be too.

00:46:42.580 Very powerful on stage on, on podcasts, you know, you can use it, but it's a little more difficult

00:46:49.240 on the air because, you know, they might just think that it stopped. What's going on here?

00:46:57.140 Yeah. So dead air, dead air on the radio. Um, so yeah, so that's something that, you know,

00:47:02.840 we've got to watch out for, but if you stay connected to them, you'll often remember your

00:47:06.560 thought more quickly because you had just looked at somebody when you said your last thought. And then

00:47:12.340 when you see them again, it connects you to what you were going to say next. Again, it's not the

00:47:17.100 worst thing in the world if you do it every once in a while, but if it becomes habitual,

00:47:20.440 if it, if it's a habit to keep looking down every time you want to, you need to think, then,

00:47:26.600 then you're disconnecting from that person. Now, if you're in a one-on-one conversation,

00:47:30.680 you're not staring into somebody's eyes and not, you know, looking, you don't avert your,

00:47:35.480 you know, you're just that scary. You don't want to staring. Of course we're not suggesting you do that.

00:47:41.860 But those are a couple of things you can do. And again, the, the staying away from absolutes will

00:47:45.840 often make you very, very appealing because it leaves room for other people's perspectives.

00:47:51.220 Well, Michael, we're winding down on time a little bit. I want to ask you a couple more

00:47:53.900 questions. The first one, I prepared you this for this a little bit, and this is something that I

00:47:57.820 ask all of my guests because I think it's important we understand and have some different

00:48:00.960 perspectives. What do you think it means to be a man? Well, when you've had all the children you want

00:48:07.480 to have get a vasectomy, you know, I have actually, I'm getting one Thursday.

00:48:12.440 Are you really? I have not. I don't know. I don't know about that. My wife and I have

00:48:17.080 talked about that. I don't know which direction we're going yet. Well, I have not revealed that

00:48:21.060 in public before. So this is my, Hey, no, but in all seriousness, you know, these are real big

00:48:26.140 issues to, to think about, you know, and we know that we're done. So we're doing that, but in all

00:48:31.140 seriousness, responsibility, I talked about that earlier. I think that's, you know, my job is to

00:48:36.860 take care of my family, to take care of my clients, to take care of my friends, take care of,

00:48:41.840 you know, the people that I have, uh, I have in my life. And, you know, even if, you know, my ex-wife

00:48:47.780 and I are not married, but I still take care of her and, you know, when I can and what way she needs

00:48:52.680 me to. So that's, I think that's our job as, as men, as people is to fulfill our responsibilities

00:49:00.140 to the best of our abilities. I like that. So Michael, if someone's listening to this

00:49:04.800 and they've liked what you have to say, they realize that they need some guidance, some

00:49:09.300 direction, some information about presenting public speaking, all of those things we talked

00:49:13.700 about, how do we connect with you? How do we learn about your book and even purchase a copy if

00:49:17.380 we're interested? Well, steal the show is sold anywhere books are sold. It's actually number four

00:49:20.780 on the wall street journal bestseller list right now. Nice. Good. And if you want to get bonuses

00:49:27.080 with the book, a lot of, uh, really good bonuses, you can do that at steal the show.com. So steal

00:49:34.520 the show.com. You can also go ahead and listen to, uh, steal the show with Michael Port, uh, right now

00:49:39.120 is up in the top of the charts, um, on iTunes and the new and notable. And it's very, very hard

00:49:46.740 hitting. It's very content oriented. You know, we talked about a lot of ideas today and what

00:49:50.660 I've done with the podcast is do a lot of short episodes, uh, that are really tight and all

00:49:55.040 how to drift, not all how to driven, but mostly have to driven. Right. And then also, uh, if you

00:50:02.280 want to learn more about public speaking, you can go to heroic public speaking.com.

00:50:08.440 Perfect. We'll make sure guys that we have all the links to all of that. I can tell you, I've gone,

00:50:13.300 I read Michael's book, book yourself solid. I bought the illustrated guide Michael as well

00:50:18.620 that you just put out. I've got steal the show. I've listened to the podcast and I've

00:50:22.320 been through heroic public speaking. So guys, if you're interested in improving your skills,

00:50:26.580 this is the resource for you, Michael, I really appreciate you taking your time and being on the

00:50:31.620 show and imparting some of your wisdom with us today. It's my pleasure. I really appreciate it.

00:50:35.260 There you have it, men. Mr. Michael Port sharing with us what it takes to be a better presenter,

00:50:39.920 performer, and pitcher. Again, you'll want to check out a couple of resources that we have this

00:50:43.840 week to follow up on the show. First order of man.com slash zero three six to gain access to

00:50:50.020 the links and the highlights and the next facebook.com slash groups slash order of man to

00:50:55.920 continue the conversation with over 1200 men that we have on our exclusive Facebook group. Also,

00:51:01.300 if you would, and if you haven't done so already, will you please leave your rating review for this

00:51:04.700 podcast as a way to say thank you to me and Michael for this episode. You can do that at order of man.com

00:51:10.200 slash iTunes guys. I look forward to talking to you next week, but until then take action and become

00:51:14.860 the man you were meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're

00:51:20.340 ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join

00:51:25.080 the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - November 24, 2015

OoM 036： The Art of Pitching Presenting, and Performing with Michael Port

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