Order of Man - OoM 038： What Makes a Man "Manly" with Stephen Mansfield

00:00:00.000 What does it mean to be a man? It's a question I've asked all 38 podcast guests up to this point

00:00:04.400 and it's a question that is extremely difficult to answer. My guest today, Stephen Mansfield,

00:00:08.600 breaks it down piece by piece as he talks about rites of passage, the need for excitement and

00:00:13.080 adventure in men's lives, and how to build a band of brothers. You're a man of action. You live life

00:00:18.200 to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down,

00:00:23.080 you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated,

00:00:28.320 rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become

00:00:35.400 at the end of the day. And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:41.500 Men, welcome back to the Order of Man podcast. I am Ryan Michler. I am the host and the founder

00:00:46.120 of Order of Man. And I'm glad to be back with you here again today, as always. As you know,

00:00:50.540 we're talking about all things manly on the podcast, and I have an incredible guest lined up for you

00:00:55.280 today. I do want to make sure that you have all the resources and the information for later

00:00:59.700 reference as we get into the conversation. So first, you can find all the links, the resources,

00:01:03.780 the best quotes, and the overview of the show at orderofman.com slash 038. And second, if you want

00:01:11.080 to dig into this conversation a bit more beyond what we are having today and what we're talking

00:01:15.980 about here, join us on our Facebook group. So you can go to facebook.com slash groups slash order of

00:01:22.080 man, where we will be talking and debating about the conversation Steven and I have today.

00:01:26.460 Also, I want to make you aware that I have set up a Patreon page. Some of you are familiar with that

00:01:30.300 for you and the other men listening to this show. It's an opportunity for you to become more than

00:01:35.020 just a listener of the show. In fact, this is the groundwork for the membership to the Order of Man

00:01:39.900 that we're going to be creating in the near future coming into 2016. Now I've updated some of the

00:01:44.920 Patreon levels and I've upped a few of the incentives. So make sure you head to patreon.com

00:01:50.040 slash order of man. So it's P A T R E O N.com slash order of man. We are adding men to our wall 0.99

00:01:59.080 of patrons. We're hosting a monthly Google hangout with the guys. We're giving away t-shirts. There's

00:02:03.080 even an opportunity to be interviewed for a segment on this show. And again, just head to patreon.com

00:02:08.680 slash order of man. Check it out over there. I'd love to see you become more than just a listener to

00:02:13.540 the show. Now I do want to give you, before we get started, a quick apology for the audio in this

00:02:18.280 episode. There's some moments during our discussion where I lose connection a bit and there's some

00:02:22.620 background noise, but work through it guys. Just work through that noise because you are definitely

00:02:26.160 going to want to hear every word of the show, especially if you want to become a better man

00:02:31.020 and you would not be listening to this podcast if that wasn't the case. My guest today is New York

00:02:35.600 Times bestselling author, Steven Mansfield. Now he's a regular contributor and commentator on Fox News

00:02:40.700 and CNN, and he advises leaders worldwide. He first rose to global attention with his groundbreaking

00:02:45.980 book, The Faith of George W. Bush, which was an enormous bestseller. And Time Magazine in fact

00:02:52.380 credited that with helping to shape the 2004 U.S. presidential election. His book, The Faith of

00:02:57.240 Barack Obama was another international bestseller. He's written biographies on Booker T. Washington,

00:03:02.820 George Whitefield, Winston Churchill, and Abraham Lincoln, among others. In one of his latest books,

00:03:08.640 Manfield's Book of Manly Men, Steven has inspired men's events around the world where he speaks widely

00:03:14.140 about men, leadership, faith, the lessons of history, and the forces that shape our modern

00:03:19.760 culture. Steve Mansfield, thanks for being on the show. Excited to have you here today.

00:03:23.600 Man, so great to be with you. Thanks for having me.

00:03:26.280 So how does a man that typically writes about faith and historical figures start writing about

00:03:31.760 manliness and masculinity? Is there some overlap there? How did you change directions and come up

00:03:36.380 with the idea for your latest book? Well, there is some overlap. First of all, most of the people I write

00:03:40.540 about in history are men. That just happens to be that way. I've written about some women. 1.00

00:03:44.480 But most of this came about from the fact that I speak a lot at university campuses. So late at

00:03:49.420 night, if I can avoid the faculty meetings, I'll go out with the young guys and sit at the pizza

00:03:53.240 joint, you know, and have a late night beer and pizza. And almost always the conversation would

00:03:58.020 circle around to manhood. What is manhood? What are men doing today? How do you be a man?

00:04:02.620 And a lot of the young guys would just suddenly get frustrated and say, look, just tell me what to do.

00:04:07.280 I know we're all screwed up, but just just tell me what to do. And nobody's ever told me what it

00:04:11.060 means to be a man. And I got to thinking, man, you know, a lot of the guys, the young guys in our

00:04:15.600 generation, just just nobody's ever told them anything, man. They're just making it up as they 0.94

00:04:19.820 go. They're getting out of GQ magazine. They're getting it out of Esquire, which, you know, all of

00:04:23.600 somewhat helpful, probably. But these guys are just saying, man, I just need somebody to tell me what

00:04:28.080 to do. And I just realized that that, man, somebody's got to speak, speak about this in practical terms,

00:04:34.480 raw terms, hard hitting terms that these guys could grasp.

00:04:38.520 Why you? What makes you the guy to do that? And I'm really curious about some of your experiences

00:04:43.560 that make you come from the place that, hey, I've got some of these answers and I've got some of the

00:04:47.980 solutions and I can help you identify what it means to be a man.

00:04:50.600 Well, I never thought that I was the guy who would do this. I knew I had fought my own battles with

00:04:54.820 this. I was raised by a military family. My father was a high ranking military officer.

00:04:59.800 I had to fight through my own definitions of masculinity and manhood. And then I was a football

00:05:05.960 jock, too. I was recruited to play football in Iowa and turned it down. But my point is that my

00:05:11.800 concepts of masculinity were screwed up. So I had to battle through all that. When these guys started

00:05:15.300 asking the important questions about manhood, fortunately, I'd fought through some of those

00:05:20.440 things myself and could give them some practical answers. But like them, I was always looking for

00:05:24.620 somebody to come along and be Superman. Somebody come along and tell me how to be a man and make me one

00:05:28.740 in about 24 hours. It just never happened. So after a while, I finally just looked around and

00:05:33.100 said, well, if this is going to get done, guys like me are going to have to do it.

00:05:36.900 Yeah, no, I understand exactly what you're saying. A lot of people will say or ask me somewhere along

00:05:40.400 the lines of what makes you the expert. And my response to that is I'm not the expert. I've just

00:05:44.240 gone through experiences in life and I'm willing to put myself out there and write about what's worked

00:05:47.740 for me and what hasn't worked for me. So it sounds like you're on a very similar path.

00:05:51.460 Well, there's this great episode. I joke that all truth in the universe is represented in some

00:05:56.320 version, some edition of the Andy Griffith show. And there's this great Andy Griffith show where

00:06:01.640 people, I'm sure people know the show, but Barney, the sheriff is out of town. And, you know,

00:06:07.120 the, and the two, I'm sorry, Andy, the sheriff is out of town and Barney and Goober are there.

00:06:11.600 They're kind of the sheriffs. And somebody is robbing the bank. And so they squat down behind

00:06:16.160 a car and go, oh my gosh, we've got to call the police. And finally, one of them looks at the

00:06:20.380 other and says, we are the police. And that's what I'm saying to men everywhere. Hey, there is no

00:06:24.620 Superman. There is no super conference. There is no super book. We are the police. We're all

00:06:28.460 going to have to fix this together. Let's get to it. So do you think this conversation has been

00:06:33.020 more prevalent over the past several years? Do you, and I, I feel like that, but maybe it's because

00:06:38.240 I'm in the space just like you are. What are your thoughts about the trend towards returning to

00:06:44.140 masculinity, if you will? Absolutely believe it's more prevalent. I can a percent. I think it's for a 0.97

00:06:48.360 number of reasons. First of all, I think that some of the man programs, man tours, you know,

00:06:53.860 everything, all the men's movement stuff that related to the baby boomers doesn't really hit

00:06:58.940 the millennials and older very well. Those movements, those books, that way of talking,

00:07:04.520 that way of thinking, kind of a therapeutic approach doesn't really hit younger guys as

00:07:08.920 well. And the other thing is that we're very, very aware that we're living at a time when

00:07:13.900 manhood's failing more than ever. I mean, the statistics for boys, the specifics, the statistics

00:07:18.320 for most young males are terrible. Men are declining in our generation and by every measurable, 0.84

00:07:25.280 you know, method of evaluation, every measure. And it's, it's, it's tragic. And also, young

00:07:33.760 men, I think are just coming to the point where they're dissatisfied in their own skins. I mean,

00:07:38.360 you know, you can, you can, you can live on kind of a cultural definition of manhood for so long.

00:07:42.920 And after a while you go, you know, I haven't done anything out in the wild. I'm a cubicle rat.

00:07:46.820 Um, I, I haven't had a woman, you know, drawn for me to me for anything from the head up in a long

00:07:52.320 time. Uh, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Pretty sudden you start realizing that whatever definition

00:07:56.440 is going out of manhood, it's not working. And so I think, I tend to think that all kinds of, uh,

00:08:02.200 sort of external practices and signs and indicators are important. I think the emphasis on shaving

00:08:08.260 among men is important. There's a huge shaving culture and, and surge and new ways of shaving and

00:08:14.860 new ways of getting your, your razor mailed to you and all that kind of stuff. I think all that says

00:08:19.120 something about men and manhood and the practices of manhood. I had a barber cry recently because

00:08:25.120 his grandfather left him his razor and it was the only indication of manhood he'd ever gotten from

00:08:29.700 anybody in his family line. So I think all that's important. And, you know, I think we're experimenting

00:08:34.640 with some older physical looks and some older ways of dressing. And it's kind of a retro thing.

00:08:40.120 And these things cycle culturally and all of it to me is indicative of young men, especially

00:08:45.080 a hungering for some new definition of manhood. Well, and you talk about that. We're failing as

00:08:50.860 men or masculinity on all different fronts. Why do you think that is? Why is it that we're

00:08:55.180 struggling with this? Because I believe that as well. And that's part of the reason why I started

00:08:59.760 this project order of man, but I'd like to hear why you think that we're failing and struggling as

00:09:04.900 men in general. Well, first of all, there's this big, broad cultural kind of academic analysis

00:09:09.880 that men were important when we needed their muscle, when we needed them to settle the nation

00:09:14.620 cities and conquer the West and pacify the natives. As they say, I'm Native American, so I have to make 0.98

00:09:20.380 jokes about that. I won't take your time with that now. But the bottom line is we tend to, you know,

00:09:26.000 with that analysis is that men are now, though they were needed before, men now don't really fit a

00:09:32.200 social media, digital society. I call this the guerrilla theory of men, that we needed men to

00:09:38.320 build the nation, build the cities, you know, raise the steel, et cetera, tote that barge, lift that

00:09:42.940 bale. Once we got into a digital age, men are like guerrillas in the corner of a cage, scratching

00:09:47.300 themselves and eating a banana and confused by what's going on around them. And women are better 1.00

00:09:53.200 suited to this new culture. Now, I celebrate the accomplishments of women, but I do think that

00:09:59.400 this guerrilla theory of men that's taken, become very, very popular on the university campuses and

00:10:05.320 a lot of leading books has really damaged men who are just as capable of functioning in our current

00:10:11.120 society as ever. So you start with that kind of academic analysis that every young male is going

00:10:15.640 to get maybe a little bit in high school and some in college. And then you see it portrayed in popular

00:10:19.680 culture. I mean, every, every, almost every guy on TV is either, you know, shoving 20s in somebody's

00:10:25.220 underwear at the pole or he's an idiot, you know, or he's a big bruiser, violent kind of guy. I mean, 1.00

00:10:30.580 there's not any just normal image of manhood out there, uh, not much. And, uh, so all of that I

00:10:37.340 think has become part of the problem. And then I think that men have found, uh, that there are things

00:10:42.180 that are possible now in this generation that, that have the potential to destroy them, that they

00:10:46.000 can, they can do to themselves. I mean, we all celebrate the great powers we have in our pockets

00:10:50.900 with our cell phones and our iPads and, and our computers and what have you. Uh, but, but the

00:10:55.560 fact is we can destroy ourselves, uh, a couple of hours a day with what, what we can take on on our

00:11:00.880 iPhones. Um, you know, the, uh, the average, uh, nine year old now has his first exposure to poetry,

00:11:06.880 uh, to pornography by the time he's 11. Uh, the average young teenager in America is looking at two

00:11:12.700 hours of porn a day. Well, look, I'm not on some anti-porn rant. Everybody's got their views of that,

00:11:17.640 but I, but I am very strongly against, uh, young men being destroyed sexually by images going into

00:11:23.560 their heads without anybody there to tell them what all this stuff means and how it ought to be used

00:11:27.500 and, and what, what the proper boundaries are for it. So for all of those reasons, uh, manhood is in

00:11:32.920 crisis. We're dropping by every academic measure. We're dropping by socioeconomic measure. We're

00:11:37.060 dropping by health and satisfaction measures. And that's why I think it's what we're having this

00:11:41.500 conversation. Yeah. So where does that leave the modern man? Because we hear a lot about

00:11:46.600 some of the primary roles and functions of man is to protect and to provide. And both of those

00:11:52.080 things are quite frankly, not as necessary as they were a hundred years ago or a thousand or even

00:11:57.540 10,000 years ago. So where does that leave the modern man? And how do we adapt to this new society

00:12:04.440 where women are stepping into the workforce and we're just safer than we've ever been, believe it

00:12:09.640 or not? Well, I take a slightly different view than some guys. I mean, I don't want to push religion

00:12:13.500 here, but I start with the fact of what we're made for. I'm crazy about my wife. I'm crazy about 0.98

00:12:18.060 my kids, but I don't want to be the great man that could be primarily for them. I don't think that

00:12:24.500 works. And I think that's how manhood is often presented to, to men. Look, you got this obligation

00:12:29.420 here and you got this obligation there. You got this duty and trust me, I'm with it. I understand

00:12:33.320 the idea of duty and obligation, all of those things, but a man's made a certain way. And if a man

00:12:38.440 doesn't understand how he's made and what he needs and who he is, then he's not going to be satisfied

00:12:44.360 and just telling him to do things out of duty, his whole life for his wife and his kids, for most men

00:12:50.120 that won't work. So, so a man needs to understand, for example, that, that he is more oriented towards

00:12:56.600 doing than he is oriented towards feeling. This doesn't mean he's a troglodyte, doesn't mean he's

00:13:01.080 incapable of feeling anything, but that's why in my book, for example, my, the first maxim that I talked to

00:13:06.260 guys about is I have a lot of fun with the language. So we're just playing with this language,

00:13:10.260 but man, men do manly things, do get on with the doing. It's the doing that it's all about.

00:13:15.460 Well, in our, in our somewhat feminized society, and I don't say that critically,

00:13:19.440 um, and in our highly emotionally charged society, men are often approached emotionally.

00:13:26.000 People try to motivate them emotionally, but men are oriented towards the doing. So guys,

00:13:30.860 I want to talk to you about the doing. I want to talk to you about what the dues are,

00:13:33.360 what the, what the deeds are of noble manhood. Well, that starts to get guys excited because

00:13:37.720 thus far manhood has been presented to them almost entirely as emotions management. You know,

00:13:43.360 it's like, let me figure out here how to, how to get my emotions all lined up. But that's not what

00:13:47.680 men are good at. Uh, so whether you're talking about forgiving their dads or you're talking about

00:13:51.780 loving their sons, or you're talking about, you know, whatever, whatever area of manhood you're

00:13:55.620 talking about, uh, what you're primarily dealing with is, is the doing and not just trying to adjust

00:14:01.160 yourself to feel that right there gives men a real strong sense of what they ought to be doing.

00:14:05.900 And then, and then, yeah, men, men were always the protectors. They were always the, uh, you know,

00:14:10.660 the ones who defended the society. And you're right. We don't need that as much today, but still,

00:14:14.940 I believe in his life, a man has a field that he's responsible for. And what men are, what women,

00:14:20.280 what men are good at, what men are made for is taking responsibility, uh, for their field. I don't

00:14:24.960 mean their, their professional and career field by this. I mean, everything that's within the scope

00:14:29.160 of what they're responsible for, uh, the house, the wife, uh, the kids, their job, their community

00:14:34.700 service, whatever they're doing at the church, synagogue, temple, whatever, uh, whatever they,

00:14:39.240 whatever else they've obligated themselves to. This is the field that is assigned to them. This

00:14:42.680 is the field that they are meant to, uh, to tend and tend well. And when men are approached that way,

00:14:48.060 Hey, you've got a certain invisible sort of field. It's not a, you know, an actual football field,

00:14:52.860 but it's a, it's like that in your heart and your mind. This is what you're responsible for.

00:14:56.960 Protect it, nurture it, cause everything that's within it to thrive. This is what a man does.

00:15:01.920 Oh man, I've seen the connection start to happen in guys because finally they understand what they're

00:15:06.440 meant to be about. And it's not just about trying to feel certain things or, or, or, or, or be their,

00:15:11.340 their wives, you know, almost feminine kind of buddy. And I don't mean the feminine in any negative

00:15:15.120 sense. It's just not what a man is made for. You can't believe the transformation that happens,

00:15:19.480 especially in young men when they start thinking this way.

00:15:22.680 Yeah. It's interesting. I'm going to go back to what you were talking about in,

00:15:25.880 when you talked about doing an action, I see my two boys who, you know, we don't need to train

00:15:31.820 them on this, but they want to go outside. They want to jump on the trampoline. All four of the

00:15:35.240 boys, my couple of neighborhood kids and my two boys were outside and they put their football pads

00:15:39.040 on and they were hitting each other and they were looking at bugs and they were starting fires.

00:15:42.580 They're doing all this stuff that boys do. But somewhere along the way, we lose that sense of

00:15:46.780 adventure and that sense of action. What are some of the things that you, when you say manly men do

00:15:52.200 manly things, what are some of the specific things that you're talking about that manly men do?

00:15:56.680 Well, it's every, every kind of a thing that, that a guy is obligated for. Men do protect.

00:16:05.240 Men do improve themselves for themselves and for the good of others. Men are made to,

00:16:12.200 to watch those around them and to help them achieve their best. Men are made. I move on down my list.

00:16:18.060 For example, I talk about how men are made to bond with other men. I was just reading an article

00:16:21.980 yesterday about how in England, the stats are heading very much like they are in the U.S.,

00:16:27.500 where the average man doesn't have a buddy. To use the language I use, he doesn't have a band of

00:16:33.020 brothers. Therefore, he doesn't have the team he needs around him to become the best he can be

00:16:37.900 and to, and to achieve and to serve others well. Well, this is a matter of the doing. This is a matter of,

00:16:43.320 of, uh, engaging other men into a band of brothers where he can, he can accomplish what he's made to

00:16:47.880 accomplish. So, so the doing, um, is, is, uh, many different things, but it starts, for example,

00:16:53.440 by taking care of yourself. It starts by understanding your own need for adventure and

00:16:57.800 the wild men today are very likely to live overly domestic domesticated lives, for example, but

00:17:02.900 you're doing, Ryan, you're taking your leisure. You recognize your own need for adventure. You

00:17:07.700 recognize your own need. I think men need some controlled wildness in their lives, whether it's a,

00:17:12.440 a pickup basketball game where they're likely to get smacked around or, or a ride up into the

00:17:16.740 mountains or, or the scuba dive, whatever it is, men need that kind of adventure and wildness. And,

00:17:22.000 and they can't expect their wives or society to give it to them. So they have to be doing that.

00:17:26.440 They have to take responsibility for themselves and work that into their lives. Uh, so, so their

00:17:31.600 whole list of doing many, doing things that the, the, what you're, what you're doing in the life of

00:17:36.100 your daughter, what you're doing in the wife of your son, what you're doing in the life of your

00:17:39.080 wife, what you're doing as a single man, uh, the way you're living out nobility, the way you're

00:17:43.400 protecting women, the way you're improving yourself, the way you're becoming a person of character and

00:17:47.560 strength, the way you're becoming a leader among men, all of those issues of doing. And then in my

00:17:53.540 case, I don't apologize for the fact I come, uh, come from all this from a Christian perspective.

00:17:57.400 So there's a issue of doing, of living to the glory of God and living a clean moral life and,

00:18:02.180 and being the exemplary man of faith that I'm meant to be. But I realize not everybody's with me on

00:18:06.620 that. That's not a problem. Still, there's the emphasis of doing, uh, for men that I think is

00:18:10.400 critical. I listened to your interview that you just did with Jordan Harbinger over at the artist

00:18:15.020 time or charm. And he was recently on our show. And I think you talked about the band of brothers as

00:18:18.620 well. And I know how valuable that is for me, even if it's just a select group of guys, a couple of

00:18:24.300 guys that I do Spartan races with or workout with, like you said, we play basketball every week and I

00:18:29.060 can't tell you how good it is to get some of that aggression and some of that, whatever it may be out.

00:18:34.300 And what's interesting is my wife even notices it. She says, you need to go work out. You need 0.82

00:18:38.500 to go play basketball. You need to go hang out with the guys because she can recognize that in

00:18:42.200 me when I don't have enough of that. Well, there's no question, by the way, for those of us who are

00:18:45.960 married, a lot of what is about becoming a good, a noble, a great man, uh, is exactly what women are 1.00

00:18:52.460 crying out for from men. Men want men of strength and character, men who are fully engaged and are fully

00:18:58.840 connected with all of who they are on the inside. They also don't want them to be, to be, uh, you know,

00:19:03.680 sort of playing out their need for adventure and rowdiness with them, with the women.

00:19:08.440 Right. No, we, we, we find ourselves with other men. We find ourselves in the wild and then we come

00:19:12.960 to our wives, you know, clean showered in our own mind, you know, in our, in our right minds, 1.00

00:19:17.960 uh, and knowing how to treat a woman. Right. And so, yeah, I couldn't agree more that that's,

00:19:22.660 that's a lot of the problem is we, men are told that in order to relate to women, they kind of need to

00:19:28.880 become, you know, women with beards in a sense, you know, kind of feminized in order to relate.

00:19:33.620 But, but what we love about each other is the other. It's the fact that we're other from each

00:19:38.260 other. I'm crazy about my wife. She is so foreign to me. It's not even funny. Right. I mean, I, 0.55

00:19:44.720 I'm not saying, I'm not trying to be sarcastic here. I love my wife. She's a very well-known

00:19:49.280 producer and produces a lot of rock and roll and tours and what have you. Um, and she's very strong

00:19:54.540 personality and, and very, you know, kind of Celtic, you know, buddhicia kind of, uh, rowdy 0.91

00:19:59.140 woman. Uh, but I don't understand how she moves like that when she walks down the street. I don't 1.00

00:20:04.200 care. I don't know. I don't understand how she thinks sometimes, but I'm crazed about it. So I'm

00:20:09.300 not trying to be like her. I want to be fully who I am for her. And that's what, that's what she

00:20:14.760 loves. That's what sparks the romance. That's what makes her feel safe and cared for and provided

00:20:19.820 for and protected and all of those things. I want to stay on this, this trend of band of brothers

00:20:25.280 and groups of guys. I'm really fascinated by your story of your, I, I, I think you refer to it as a

00:20:31.220 rite of passage when you were, when you were overseas. And I'd like to hear a little bit about

00:20:35.480 that because I think that's something as I raise my children that I'm interested in doing for them

00:20:41.220 and helping them understand that now you belong to this tribe or this culture of men and you've made

00:20:47.560 it in a sense. Tell me a little bit about that. Sure. Ryan, because we don't have a strong emphasis

00:20:51.960 on manhood. We're not a hundred percent sure what it is in some cases. We don't know how to sort of

00:20:56.860 commemorate it, um, and, and, and have the moments where we are, we are celebrating it and, and welcoming,

00:21:03.120 uh, young men to different phases of manhood. Very briefly, um, I was doing relief work in the

00:21:08.860 Middle East and usually we went through Damascus. This is long before the Syrian troubles now 0.98

00:21:13.440 and went on into, uh, for a kind of, well, actually it was, it was amongst the Kurds and,

00:21:17.700 and, and Rocky Kurdistan, but I got stuck in Damascus. Um, it was there for a couple of weeks

00:21:23.160 and a friend of mine decided to have a party on a roof for me. It was great except that nobody could

00:21:27.340 spend and nobody could speak English really. And so we ate and we kind of nodded at each other and

00:21:31.820 welcomed each other. And, you know, it was exotic to be there and all that. Finally, an older man

00:21:35.840 turned to me and said, uh, do you have a son? And I said, I do. What is his name? He asked.

00:21:42.120 And I said, his name is Jonathan. He said, he looked at me like he was just announcing the

00:21:46.340 second coming. He said, well, then you have a new name. And I didn't understand what was going on.

00:21:51.600 Finally, the one guy who spoke the most English said, you know, in Arab culture, when a man has 0.99

00:21:56.300 a son, it's such an honor to him that they actually give him an honorific name, a special honorary name.

00:22:01.020 And it's Abu, which is the Arab word father and a shortened version of the son's name. So in my case,

00:22:06.920 my son being Jonathan, they announced that my name was Abu John. Well, so they, when that was

00:22:12.960 announced, they started celebrating like Jonathan had been born 20 minutes before. I mean, the dancing

00:22:18.700 began, they, somebody clapped their hands in that Arab way and other food came out and, and so on.

00:22:24.360 And a lot of, some of the guys that there were bodyguards, it was the dancing started. Some of the

00:22:27.340 guys were holding my hand and their other hand was a Kalashnikov, you know, or, you know, when a dude,

00:22:32.420 when the dude dancing with you has a machine gun, he leads, trust me. And it was awesome. This went

00:22:38.240 on for three, four hours into the wee hours of the morning. They sent me back to my hotel with hugs

00:22:43.360 and, and, you know, all kinds of blessings. When I got back, I was pretty, pretty changed and I

00:22:49.660 couldn't figure out why I sat up the rest of the night trying to figure out what's going on. I'll

00:22:52.520 tell you what it was. Even though I was raised in a military culture, my father, like I said,

00:22:57.020 army officer, even though I played football every year, even though I, you know, obviously ended

00:23:02.080 puberty. I obviously went to high school, went to college, you know, got advanced degrees, had a

00:23:06.860 wife, had children. And not at any of those transitions had any group of men ever welcomed

00:23:12.600 me to any phase of manhood. We had no rituals. We had no, you know, in my culture growing up,

00:23:19.700 just normal American Protestant. We didn't have bar mitzvahs like our Jewish friends do in 13,

00:23:23.920 when the young man becomes a son of the covenant, as they call it. I had never had any moment when any

00:23:29.420 group of men said, welcome to manhood. And it was done by a bunch of Arabs, Syrian parliamentarians

00:23:36.100 on the roof of a hotel in Damascus. And it changed me. When I came back to the States,

00:23:42.340 I looked around and I realized, you know, we're not doing this at any level. So I have really,

00:23:46.260 I mean, it really fed a lot of what I'm teaching and writing now, but it also made me turn to fathers

00:23:50.900 like you, Ryan and say, absolutely. You have got to have rituals that mark these transitions into

00:23:59.660 manhood. And when a young man, you know, turns into puberty, a lot of fathers that I'm working

00:24:05.960 with now talking to, they'll have certain rituals. They'll have the kid conquer something, maybe go

00:24:10.680 out in the woods and hike up a mountain. He couldn't get up a few years before, you know, or whatever,

00:24:14.840 they'll have something, you know, and then of course, a transition out of high school, we don't just make

00:24:19.200 about a high school graduation ceremony. We have a welcome into young adulthood kind of thing. And

00:24:23.860 then, you know, on and on and on. I mean, it's, there's no set pattern. I don't have a book of

00:24:28.200 rituals, but I'm urging men to welcome, to create a culture in which they can welcome the young men

00:24:34.320 into manhood. And I got to tell you, it is absolutely changing the lives of those young men.

00:24:39.060 Yeah, I can see that. My son actually turned, my oldest son turns eight in the spring of next year.

00:24:44.260 And we've already got some plans for that, which is hiking up in the wilderness. And we're

00:24:49.140 going to spend some time and he's going to have his own pack. I'll have my own pack. And then he'll

00:24:52.640 earn probably a knife. I'm still trying to convince my wife that he should earn a 22 rifle. That's an

00:24:58.760 uphill battle. But I think, you know, over the next six months, I think I can win that one. But

00:25:02.400 I'm really excited about that. And I know that he is already looking forward to the challenge

00:25:07.640 and the overcoming of that obstacle. And then of course, the reward or that comes along with that as

00:25:13.420 well. Well, I can't, I just can't commend that enough. And I urge it for every man. What I was

00:25:19.060 able to do was I sail a bit. I spent part of my year in Annapolis, Maryland. And when my son was

00:25:24.680 approaching 13, I said, if you fulfill these certain things, the grades are right, you know,

00:25:29.320 the things I'm asking you to read, you'll read and we'll do some things together. We'll go, we'll go

00:25:33.480 sailing. So when he turned 13, we took his two favorite older men with me and we got a 41 foot

00:25:39.480 hunter sailboat and sailed around the Abacos. And he, he was made the captain of the dinghy,

00:25:45.380 the dinghy for those who don't sail is the little boat that's attached to a bigger sailboat where you

00:25:49.920 can go back and forth to the store at the shore and all that stuff. Well, he was the total captain of

00:25:53.640 the dinghy. Nobody started it. Nobody got in it. Nobody did anything with it without, without his

00:25:57.640 permission. And he would run around. And I got to tell you, and then at night we talk about what we

00:26:01.880 saw in Jonathan's life and what we dreamed for him and what we had admired about him. I got to tell you,

00:26:06.940 it just absolutely changed his world. And he's had some, some grit and some gut and some,

00:26:12.240 and some joy and some passion since that moment that I've never seen him happen to have before.

00:26:16.720 It was all because we welcomed him to that vital stage of manhood.

00:26:20.480 Very cool. Very cool. So I got a little bit of this growing up. I grew up without a permanent

00:26:24.920 father figure, but I look about, I look at some of these rites of passages for me. I spent some time

00:26:29.500 in the military. In fact, I think I was in Iraq in 2005, which I think was about the same time

00:26:34.480 you were in Iraq, if I understand correctly. So we got some of it there. I got some of it from

00:26:39.400 sports as well. Go ahead. No, no. I was just, I just want to make clear that I've never served

00:26:43.580 in uniform, but yes, I was actually there embedded with the troops for about a month in 2005. So we

00:26:48.740 were maybe there at the same time. So I'm really curious what growing up in a military family and

00:26:54.040 then also being with the troops that you were for the amount of time that you were, what are some of

00:26:58.340 the things that you see from the military and this band of brothers and rites of passages that we may be

00:27:03.680 able to take out of the military and transform into civilian life? That's a great question because

00:27:09.280 I think every man is made in some way for some aspect of military culture. I liked the fact that

00:27:16.280 the instant assumption was that anybody could help you improve at any moment. In other words,

00:27:21.440 no matter where you are, anybody in uniform, whether they're higher ranking or not, can turn to you

00:27:25.840 and help you improve. It's like when guys get together and play football. The moment you step on the

00:27:31.360 field, the moment you're on a football team, anybody can say to you, hey, get off the line

00:27:35.400 faster. Hey, go out wider. Hey, go longer. Hey, make that cut tighter. Nobody's offended. Nobody's

00:27:41.040 upset. You know, the assumption is we're here. We're here to win. Anything I can say to you that

00:27:45.280 makes you better, I'm going to say. I call it a free fire zone. And in the military, there's a

00:27:49.100 constant free fire zone. I know that older officers can stop any, you know, junior officer or any non-comers.

00:27:54.760 That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about everybody can help you be better, learn the tricks.

00:27:58.260 How do you get a better shine on the boots? How do you move faster with this thing? How do you

00:28:01.140 clean that gun faster? Anything can be improved. I like the sense that everything's done in terms

00:28:06.380 of unit. Call it Band of Brothers if you want. Everything's unit. You know, we know from the

00:28:11.080 writings of the great historians and military analysts that when it really comes down to it,

00:28:15.400 soldiers in the field at war don't really fight for the big, big causes that the politicians espouse.

00:28:21.100 They fight for each other. They're really fighting for each other. They don't want to let each other

00:28:25.200 down. That's what that's what a soldier's life really boils down to. So I believe in that. I

00:28:30.500 understand that being part of something, being part of the unit, being part of something bigger

00:28:34.580 than yourself, something that's making you improve, something that's speaking into your life. And then

00:28:38.620 all the other things of the rituals that we're talking about, of the systems of improvement,

00:28:43.900 of the accountability, of the expectation that you will constantly improve yourself for the unit.

00:28:49.480 All of that stuff is to me essential parts of manhood. Yeah, it's interesting that you talk about

00:28:56.120 men serving themselves rather than these big causes that the politicians advocate. And I actually had

00:29:01.380 an interview a couple of weeks ago and somebody asked me about my time in Iraq, how it felt to be

00:29:07.180 serving and protecting my country in the heat of the moment. And looking back, it wasn't about

00:29:13.460 serving my country. It wasn't about protecting. It wasn't those things, although those are noble and

00:29:18.120 they sound really good. It was about making sure that our friends and the guys that we're with and

00:29:23.900 spending time with are protected and safe when we look after them. So I second exactly what you just

00:29:28.480 said. Well, and I think some people would say that sounds unpatriotic, but quite frankly, it's for 0.59

00:29:33.280 the politicians and the military theorists to figure out the big fat causes, bell eyes, they say in

00:29:38.220 Latin, the big cause of the war, the big justification. What I want you to think about when you're in the 1.00

00:29:43.440 field, I want you to think about how to stay alive, how to protect those around you and how to

00:29:47.320 execute well. So I'm fine for every soldier to be thinking about what his unit is supposed to do,

00:29:51.440 how he can do the right thing for his band of brothers. That's fine with me. That's not really

00:29:56.060 their job to be sitting there formulating poems to the cause of the war. Let somebody else do that.

00:30:01.700 And I think that's how manhood is. I mean, the guys I walk with, I walk with some real good guys,

00:30:07.060 a couple of guys in my band of brothers are ex-NFL, tough, manly, funny. Two of my five are

00:30:14.460 African-American, hilarious and great guys. And I got to tell you what, they spare me nothing,

00:30:20.280 man. If they see something that's got to change, that really is what starts to happen in the

00:30:24.640 trenches, as you know better than I do, in the military. How do you give somebody permission

00:30:29.120 to do that? Because I know we tend to tread lightly, especially in this culture of political

00:30:34.120 correctness, that we don't want to offend anybody or step in anybody's toes. How do you form a

00:30:38.620 relationship so close that you feel comfortable giving feedback and then also being open to

00:30:44.940 receiving from your guys? Well, it really is something you've got to be very intentional about.

00:30:50.800 First of all, most men have a hard time even making friends. And so I talked to guys a little

00:30:55.300 bit about how to make friends, how to just move from being kind of the isolated male,

00:30:58.700 typical in the Western world, to having friends. But once you've got any kind of friends at all,

00:31:03.240 there are a couple of simple steps to simply moving from just kind of casual friendships

00:31:07.660 to friendships where you've got that free fire zone. And for me, a lot of times,

00:31:11.980 once I'm already hanging with a guy, once I'm talking to him, I'll get his advice about something

00:31:15.720 in my life. Man, I'm watching you and you are one disciplined dude, man. You work out all the time.

00:31:20.620 You can tell I got a little weight to lose. I want to get buff like you. Can you help me with this?

00:31:24.360 Can you talk to me about what works? How do you eat? What do you do? And I'll let him talk to me.

00:31:28.220 Well, now already I'm putting him in a mentor role with me, which is exactly what I want.

00:31:32.040 And then maybe we'll go with that for a while. Maybe then he'll ask me advice and we'll start to,

00:31:35.900 in other words, we move the friendship just a little bit beyond, hey, let's just go watch the

00:31:39.200 game to, hey, let's as men help each other be better men. And then finally, when I feel like

00:31:43.960 it's a good fit, I'll turn to him and say, listen, there are some things I really want to perfect in

00:31:47.960 my life. I want to be a good man. I want to be a really fine man. I sense that you do too.

00:31:52.420 I want to tell you, and this of course doesn't happen on the first day. It happens down the road,

00:31:55.740 but I'll finally say to them, I want you to say to me anything you need to say to make me a better man.

00:32:01.280 You know who I want to be. We've talked enough about it. You know what kind of man I want to be.

00:32:05.040 Um, I think you've got a good, good grasp on that. And I think that's what you want to be.

00:32:08.960 So from here on out, as long as you and I are friends, I want you to make an agreement with me.

00:32:13.540 I'll use the word covenant in some cases, but I want you to make an agreement with me

00:32:16.820 that you will say to me anything that needs to be said to make me a better man, total free fire

00:32:22.320 zone between us. And I'll do the same with you. And when I can get to that point, that's usually when

00:32:27.060 I've got a lifetime band of brothers, even if we end up moving away from each other or whatever,

00:32:30.520 we still will check in by phone years and years later to check with each other and get together

00:32:34.620 when we can, because that's the relationship. Most men don't have. They don't have anybody around

00:32:39.760 them who can't, who basically it's got to be somebody who loves you, who's not afraid of you

00:32:44.200 and who wants to see you become better and we'll say, or do whatever they have to do to make that

00:32:47.900 happen. That's when you've got something special. Makes me want to step it up a little bit with some

00:32:52.420 of my buddies. So I'm going to take some of that, that information ideas to heart. I want to jump

00:32:56.380 around here for a minute because we have been bouncing around. You, you covered two of the

00:33:00.320 maxims that you talk in, in your book, which is manly men do manly things and then manly men tend

00:33:05.160 their fields. Let's talk about the other two, because I know there's four. Let's talk about the

00:33:09.060 other two briefly if we can. Sure. The next one we've already been touching on, but it's great to

00:33:12.720 revisit for just a moment. And that is manly men build manly men. I, I, I'm a big believer.

00:33:18.780 Everybody, anybody who knows what I do, I write books, I speak, I do conferences, I do television.

00:33:23.580 I believe in all of it, but I think that ultimately what builds a man, uh, what makes a man into what

00:33:30.160 he's meant to be, uh, other than what he can bring to it himself is basically other men helping him

00:33:36.600 and building him into manhood. And I want to say, especially this has to do with the boys. What I

00:33:40.620 urge men to do is to build a culture of noble manhood around them that they can then initiate

00:33:44.900 the boys into. I'm going to talk about this for just a quick second. My, I'm a big believer in the

00:33:50.100 idea that boys are suffering today horribly because men are not there to articulate who they

00:33:55.580 are and to explain manhood. I, there's a great article in a recent Esquire, our Esquire magazine

00:34:01.340 from last year. Um, and it's all about how boys it's called the war on boys. And it's a psychologist

00:34:07.320 says that because we, uh, don't, don't have men articulating what it means to be a boy and what

00:34:13.700 adolescence means and what can happen in a boy's life that we're drugging boys to death. Um, and

00:34:19.300 we're over prescribing. Now I want to say automatically I'm not anti-medicine man. If you

00:34:24.580 need whatever you need for depression or whatever Ritalin, whatever you and your doctor agreed

00:34:28.560 to fine. But, but this psychologist makes the point that a lot of what's going on with

00:34:32.840 boys is they're just being normal boys, but it looks so odd in a school setting or some

00:34:38.180 other setting that we started to drug what we don't know what to deal with. And I'm convinced

00:34:42.400 that men need to be able to articulate what's going on with the boy. Quick, quick story. When

00:34:45.940 my son was about 12, um, uh, suddenly he and a police officer appeared in my office. The officer

00:34:52.460 happened to have been a friend of mine. Thank God. Uh, great big African-American, uh, SWAT team 1.00

00:34:57.320 leader, uh, in Nashville. And, uh, my friend, my African-American friend winked at me and said,

00:35:02.300 sir, is this son? Is this your son? Well, of course he knew it was, but I said, yes. Um, he said,

00:35:07.340 do you let him lay in the road at night? I said, well, no, sir. What's happened? He explained to me that my

00:35:11.860 son had decided to test his manhood by laying at night and at one of the busiest streets in Nashville

00:35:17.880 to see how close he'd let the cars get to him, uh, before he jumped up and ran to the side. Now,

00:35:23.060 of course he was an idiot. Uh, but, uh, but the fact is by, so we, my, my, my SWAT team member, 1.00

00:35:28.920 my SWAT director friend, and I went through this little ritual. He quote unquote, arrested Jonathan,

00:35:33.320 put him in the back of the car. I negotiated with him, got my son back. You know, we had a great laugh

00:35:38.000 about that later. Well, I want you to know his mother, his grandmother, his teachers,

00:35:42.820 they institutionalized. They wanted to hit him with tranquilizer darts. They wanted him to run

00:35:47.240 around with, you know, uh, special vests or whatever. I mean, they just thought he'd lost

00:35:51.000 his mind. Well, almost understand. I threatened him. I took away everything he loved. I disciplined

00:35:56.060 him. I, you know, restricted him for the next 50 years. I mean, I did whatever I had to do.

00:36:00.560 And then when it was all over and I had everybody taken care of, I went to my office and laughed

00:36:04.280 my head off because, because I know what that is. You know what that is. That's a boy hitting

00:36:11.060 adolescence and testing himself. Now it told me as a father, he needs some more wildness in his life.

00:36:16.760 I need to be more in there. We started, you know, doing more pickup games and breaking noses and going

00:36:21.440 out into the wild. And my son wanted to take another step up into being a man. But what I didn't think

00:36:26.640 was that I needed to drug him for the next eight years of his life, uh, because he had just done what I

00:36:31.080 knew to be normal adolescence. So because I was able to be there and articulate his path, both to

00:36:36.260 him and others, then he wasn't treated like a mental case and is going to be a very fine young

00:36:41.680 man. Now he's going to be 30 this spring and he's, he's wonderful. My point is that that's what's,

00:36:45.980 that's, that's what's causing the war on boys is since we don't have a band of brothers, that third

00:36:49.940 principle of mine, manly men build manly men. Since we don't have a band of brothers around us,

00:36:54.900 we can't bring up the boys in it. We can't articulate what the journey to manhood is.

00:36:58.580 So the society just drugs it to death because they don't know what else to do. And this,

00:37:02.520 this psychologist in this SQ article, again, the war on boys makes a, makes a fantastic case that

00:37:07.380 all of us need to know about. Yeah. I mean, I see that with my, again, my oldest son, we're playing

00:37:12.800 basketball and I'm coaching his team. And at the end of the game, unfortunately at this point that

00:37:17.120 he's in second grade that they're not keeping score, but at seven and eight years old, these boys,

00:37:22.900 the first thing they want to know is, did we win the game? And that's their competitive nature and

00:37:27.560 that's their drive. And that's how they measure themselves as them being successful. And so

00:37:31.460 I'm actually going to the athletic director and saying, Hey, these boys are old enough that they

00:37:35.420 ought to start keeping score. It's not going to hurt anybody's feelings. It's going to help them

00:37:38.800 improve and know where they stand. So I, I see the value of that. Are you talking about Dr. Leonard

00:37:43.880 Sachs by chance when, when you, when you talk about that article? You know, I forgive me. I do not 0.99

00:37:48.540 remember the author's name. It was the March, I believe it's the March, 2014 edition of Esquire,

00:37:53.620 the war on boys, but forgive me. I don't remember the author's name. I'll have to look that up because

00:37:58.300 it sounds like a lot. I I'm reading a book called boys adrift right now by Dr. Leonard Sachs, which

00:38:03.020 talks a lot about what it is that you're saying. And my wife has read it as well. So we'll link that

00:38:07.300 up and then I'll look through that magazine as well and make a link in the show notes. Good, good,

00:38:10.960 good. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's critically important and I think you're exactly right. See

00:38:14.360 what's happened and what you're doing by going to the athletic director where your boys play is,

00:38:18.680 is just right. You're a father, you're involved, you understand what boys need. Uh, you know,

00:38:22.640 you're not wanting to, to, to overwhelm them, but, but you're aware as a father who's out in the real

00:38:28.040 world that, that they're going to be having to keep score, so to speak in their lives, that there

00:38:32.160 comes a point where that has to be done in a controlled situation. And so this idea that we

00:38:36.400 just sort of play and Yahoo, and then it's all over. And then we all go home that see, you're

00:38:40.640 articulating the journey of a young man because eventually they're butts or didn't we, did we get

00:38:44.820 the job done or didn't we, are we, are we, did we make, did we fulfill the job we were sent to do or

00:38:49.000 didn't we? And a father understands they need to know that somebody else might not. So I applaud

00:38:53.200 you for getting in there and, you know, contending for what you know is right for your boys.

00:38:57.280 I'll let you know how it turns out. It could be an uphill battle, but we'll see. So talk to me

00:39:01.080 about the fourth maxim. We're winding down on time a little bit here, so let's address that. And I've

00:39:04.660 got a couple other questions for you as well. Sure. Absolutely. I believe that manly men live to the

00:39:09.440 glory of God. And that's not just because I want to preach and make it all religiously. It's because

00:39:13.280 I believe as men that the manhood that we're meant to fulfill is not contrary to our faith and our

00:39:18.700 connection to God, but a fulfillment of it. And I really don't think that a man can fulfill everything

00:39:22.940 he's made to fulfill and be, unless he's got God's help and God's work in his life. I love my wife.

00:39:28.480 As I've said many times, I'm not just making a case. I really am crazy about my wife, but like I say,

00:39:32.540 she's, she's foreign to me. She's other, well, I need God's help to be patient with her, to understand

00:39:37.040 her, to be gentle with her, to, to recognize what she needs. I don't have the insight I need

00:39:41.560 with my kids. I need some, some have something different from God. And I want to, I want to

00:39:47.860 live for his glory because I've been made that way, but I also need his help to live that way.

00:39:51.540 One quick, quick story. I know we're tight for time. My, my daughter is off doing acting in New

00:39:57.140 York now, and she's 25, 26. But when she was in high school, I used to have to go pick her up at

00:40:01.380 school every afternoon. And I had to walk into a big atrium to do it. Well, one day when we were

00:40:06.180 driving home, my daughter turned to me and said, dad, you know, whenever you walk in the room and I'm

00:40:11.460 talking to a boy and he's got his back to where you're walking in, he says, she said, as soon as

00:40:16.240 he walks, you walk in the room, it changes the boys I'm talking to. They can't even see you,

00:40:20.940 but they, they gentle up. They take a little step backwards. One of them, one of them even messed

00:40:25.520 up and called her ma'am. They were the same age. He called her ma'am by accident. I said, well,

00:40:30.220 honey, what do you think that is? She said, well, you know, I think you're just in charge. I think

00:40:35.560 you're just, I think you just have authority for my life. And I think they just feel it, even though

00:40:40.460 you're 50, 50 feet away and they can't even see you. And that to me was one of the best statements.

00:40:45.020 It's not a big ego thing, but one of the best statements of, look, I, I cared for this girl

00:40:50.060 before she was born, prayed for her every day, spanked her, disciplined her, funded her, taught

00:40:54.980 her. I mean, come on, of course I have authority with her life for her life. Of course, Mufasa's in

00:41:00.680 the room, you know, I mean, I walk around feeling some big, you know, metal armor on me or something,

00:41:06.260 but, but that's the spiritual side of what we're talking about. Yes. Manhood is, uh, it's character

00:41:12.040 and it's practicality and it's hammering things out. In fact, foxholes, but it's also, I'll call

00:41:16.980 it grace, a gift, a spirit. It's a, it's, it's, it's a part of a way a man unfolds that God intends

00:41:22.460 and with God's help. And I was so pleased that day that my daughter recognized that there was

00:41:26.800 something beyond just my physical presence and intellect that was involved in this business

00:41:30.840 of fathering. And I think that's true in all of manhood. Well, I'm excited to ask you this

00:41:35.000 next question because I've read your book. I enjoyed your book. It's one of my, my favorite

00:41:38.900 books on the subject of masculinity. And so my question for you is what does it mean to be a

00:41:43.680 man? I believe that man, that to be a man is to, is to own your field before God. Now there are many

00:41:52.680 different definitions and I certainly don't think that I've got the only one, but the main thing that

00:41:56.840 brings manhood together for me is that a man understands he's been assigned a field in his life,

00:42:03.520 a field, not just being his profession again, but all that that is he's responsible for and all that

00:42:08.120 he's been given. And he owns it and he owns it in strength and character and he owns it to the glory

00:42:14.260 of God and with God's help. And that includes taking care of himself, knowing his own need for

00:42:18.960 the wild, his own health needs, his own psychological need, his need for a band of brothers, all the way

00:42:24.160 through to what a daughter uniquely needs, a son uniquely needs, a wife uniquely needs, a date uniquely

00:42:28.820 needs, et cetera. A man owns his field with the help of God and to the glory of God. And when I

00:42:34.440 think of manhood that way, it starts to change things for me. Stephen, how do we connect with

00:42:39.260 you? If we want to learn more about what you're doing, we want to connect with you. We want to

00:42:41.840 get your book. How do we do that? How do we go about finding you? Well, the book is pretty much

00:42:45.880 everywhere men's books are sold, especially on Amazon, but I'd love to hear from guys at

00:42:49.400 Steven Mansfield dot TV, Steven Mansfield dot TV. And my Twitter is just at Mansfield

00:42:55.840 rights. One word Mansfield, right. So Steven Mansfield dot TV and Mansfield rights.

00:43:02.120 Steven, I appreciate you. I appreciate your book and your time. Thanks for joining us on

00:43:06.000 the show and imparting some of your wisdom and insights. I appreciate it, Ryan. I'm

00:43:09.040 proud of you. Thanks for letting me be with you, buddy. Bye-bye.

00:43:11.860 There you have it, man. Mr. Steven Mansfield talking about rites of passage, the need for

00:43:15.500 excitement and adventure into men's lives, how to build a band of brothers and his

00:43:19.240 four manly maxims. Again, if you want to check out a couple of resources to follow

00:43:22.900 up on the show first head to order of men.com slash zero three eight to gain access to the

00:43:28.040 links, the highlights, and all of the information we talked about today. And next you're going

00:43:31.720 to want to go to facebook.com slash groups slash order of men to continue the conversation

00:43:36.480 with over 1200 men on our exclusive Facebook group. Last thing, guys, if you want to learn

00:43:41.340 more about how you can help the show and become more involved with the order head to

00:43:45.520 patreon.com slash order of man, that's P A T R E O N.com slash order of man. I've got

00:43:52.820 some incredible incentives from adding you to our wall of patrons to a monthly Google

00:43:56.680 hangout with the guys to t-shirts. And again, even an opportunity to be interviewed on this

00:44:01.260 show. Again, just head to patreon.com slash order of man. Check it out over there. Next

00:44:05.780 week, I have an interview with a man who is talking with us all about health and fitness,

00:44:09.060 and he reveals some exciting new plans that he's got in the works. This man's podcast is

00:44:13.340 continually ranked number one in the health section of iTunes. So you will want to subscribe

00:44:18.400 to this podcast. So you do not miss that episode or a single episode of the order of man podcast.

00:44:24.000 Guys, I look forward to talking to you next week. But until then, take action and become

00:44:27.740 the man you were meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're

00:44:32.680 ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite

00:44:36.940 you to join the order at order of man.com.

00:44:43.340 Bye!

00:44:44.000 Bye!

00:44:44.180 Bye!

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00:45:04.920 Bye!

Order of Man - December 08, 2015

OoM 038： What Makes a Man "Manly" with Stephen Mansfield

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Order of Man - December 08, 2015

OoM 038： What Makes a Man &#x22;Manly&#x22; with Stephen Mansfield

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

OoM 038： What Makes a Man "Manly" with Stephen Mansfield