Order of Man - OoM 048： Martial Arts, Mindfulness, and Mastery with Rodney King

00:00:00.000 You know as well as I do that protecting our loved ones is a key component of being a man.

00:00:04.400 And that's what I thought we'd talk about today when I started the conversation with my guest, Rodney King.

00:00:08.160 But the conversation quickly went another route as Rodney and I talk about how self-defense and martial arts can help you become more mindful and achieve mastery in all areas of your life.

00:00:18.020 You're a man of action.

00:00:19.660 You live life to the fullest.

00:00:21.100 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:24.040 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:28.120 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:33.540 This is your life.

00:00:34.660 This is who you are.

00:00:36.060 This is who you will become at the end of the day.

00:00:39.000 And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:43.240 What is up, men?

00:00:44.120 My name is Ryan Michler and I am the founder of The Order of Man.

00:00:47.340 Now, if you're new to the podcast today, we talk about all things manly, leadership, self-mastery, relationships, wealth, business, health, and so much more.

00:00:53.840 Basically, all the manly conversations you could have all tied together in one place.

00:00:58.480 Now, today we're talking about how martial arts and self-defense can help you master every single area of your life.

00:01:04.300 And before I get too much into the conversation, I want to call you out for a minute.

00:01:08.120 We all know that men of action are able to get more done than those that simply talk about what it means to be a better man.

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00:01:18.080 If you feel like you're not getting to where you want to be, and I know that some of you, because I get messages and emails and Facebook posts every day from guys that have concerns about wealth and business and relationships and health, I would suggest to you that you consider trying something new.

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00:01:51.360 Now, we've switched things up a little bit with our giveaway.

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00:02:14.400 So, it's orderofman.com slash srvsgeargiveaway for all the details.

00:02:21.420 Now, let's get into the show today.

00:02:22.420 Remember, you can find all the links and the resources and the discussion over at orderofman.com slash 048.

00:02:28.360 And, of course, you can join in the conversation we're having with over 2,200 men now, guys, on our Facebook group over at facebook.com slash groups slash orderofman.

00:02:36.960 Now, my guest today is Rodney King.

00:02:38.640 He is a leading expert in functional martial arts and performance coaching.

00:02:42.400 In fact, his programs are now represented in over 15 countries worldwide and continuing to grow.

00:02:48.840 He's coached thousands of athletes each year from around the world, and he's released several award-winning instructional DVDs where he coaches his unique approach to martial arts training.

00:02:57.520 And more recently, you can add author to his list of credentials.

00:03:00.000 He is the author of Full Contact Living, a book designed to use the teachings and lessons from a lifetime of studying martial arts and applying it into all aspects of daily life.

00:03:09.500 Rodney, thanks for joining me today.

00:03:10.740 Glad to have you on the show, man.

00:03:11.700 Hey, Ryan.

00:03:12.680 Thanks for having me, man.

00:03:13.600 I love your show, and I'm excited to be here.

00:03:16.080 So this is a conversation that I know is on a lot of guys' mind, especially in the current climate of the world, which is a lot of turmoil, a lot of unknown and uncertainty.

00:03:26.780 And I want to know from you why you think self-defense is such a critical component that men need to learn to develop.

00:03:32.940 Well, I think we can come at it a couple of different ways.

00:03:35.160 I think in the one sense, as you noted, it does seem like there's this climate where the world is on its edge.

00:03:42.380 But I like to think about it in the sense that is that really true, though, you know, because is that just maybe the media portraying that?

00:03:51.200 Sure.

00:03:51.600 So I think that's a lot of it.

00:03:53.700 And I think for guys, they need to be kind of careful that they don't get sucked into that.

00:03:58.040 And going out and learning how to defend yourself doesn't become this thing that becomes paranoia in your life.

00:04:04.100 And now you think that there's an attacker out on every street corner because that isn't the case.

00:04:08.600 I mean, as somebody who's taught martial arts for the last two decades, I could tell you that the vast majority of people that train in modern martial arts will likely never be in a position where they actually have to use it.

00:04:21.700 I do think it's important because I understand that kind of almost the primal nature of it is that if you go back to the beginning of time when we were first on this planet, two things were certain, survival and procreation.

00:04:35.820 So there's kind of this primal energy that's part of it.

00:04:38.600 And I think it's natural for guys to want to seek out a way to harness or at least come to know that energy.

00:04:46.280 And so I think that's part of the attraction.

00:04:48.040 I think a lot of times it gets skewed with this whole idea of self-defense.

00:04:52.720 I think that's what the conscious mind tells us as guys that we need to do it.

00:04:56.840 But I actually think deep down inside the reason why we want to go and learn how to defend ourselves because it promises an opportunity to become more as a man.

00:05:06.640 And I think that's really what's driving it.

00:05:08.460 But I think it's unconscious.

00:05:10.380 So it doesn't necessarily come out.

00:05:13.100 But I think in that sense, martial arts offers what we could consider potentially a modern-day initiation, you're right, for men, which was always the case throughout history, right?

00:05:24.260 How does this translate then to other areas of your life?

00:05:26.720 Because you're telling me not to approach it necessarily from the self-defense of it and approach it from, hey, this is going to help me be a better man.

00:05:34.760 How does that apply to other areas?

00:05:36.840 That's a good question.

00:05:37.800 I think first off, I mean, there's nothing wrong with learning how to defend yourself.

00:05:41.220 I think it's honorable to be able to do that.

00:05:43.280 I live in Johannesburg, which is considered one of the most violent cities in the world.

00:05:48.740 I want to be in a position that if a situation arose, especially in my house with my family, that I had the skill sets to be able to deal with it and I was able to defend myself.

00:05:58.260 So that's the first thing.

00:06:00.080 But if I only went and did this whole martial art experience just for self-defense, I mean, how long are you actually going to do that for?

00:06:07.220 I mean, how long do you actually have to do it before you really start developing some skills?

00:06:10.840 A couple of years in, it has to be more than just that.

00:06:14.120 And I think this is where martial arts really can stand out and help guys become better as men.

00:06:20.640 And I think the one place that it can help guys is give them a different perspective on these energies that are often seen as negative in the world.

00:06:30.220 You know, as men, we always get told that we're hyper-aggressive, that all we care about is warmongering and getting into like this kind of bravado kind of things.

00:06:39.500 And that's true.

00:06:40.760 But I think in my mind, that's the warrior energy misunderstood and not expressed correctly.

00:06:47.740 There's another way to express it.

00:06:49.520 So one of the things, let me give you an example that I try to do on the mat when I'm working with guys because most of my clients are men.

00:06:57.440 You know, guys come in, maybe their life isn't going that great.

00:07:00.960 They find that they're being overly aggressive.

00:07:03.220 They don't like it.

00:07:04.760 Maybe they're being short with their wife, short with their kids, and they're trying to find a better way to cope with this.

00:07:10.340 And if I can teach them in my environment, in a sparring environment, for example, where somebody is trying to punch you in the face,

00:07:16.260 not to buy into that anger and express it in a negative way, but learn to accept it, to be mindful of it, because that's really what I'm teaching.

00:07:26.480 I'm teaching guys to be mindful of these energies that arise within them and then learn to manage it differently and have a different relationship with it.

00:07:36.720 And if they can do that, they start to realize that that very energy, that aggressive energy that gets them into trouble, per se, you know, in relationships and so forth,

00:07:47.220 is also the very energy that they require in order to achieve the goals that they set for themselves.

00:07:52.800 It just depends on what narrative that you're creating around it.

00:07:56.640 And I would argue that for most men, it's not the emotion that's the problem, because I don't see any emotion as negative.

00:08:04.200 I think all emotions are there for specific reasons to enable us to survive and to move towards the goals that we set.

00:08:11.900 But it's the story that we create around it.

00:08:14.560 And if I can teach guys to have a different story around these energies, not what society is telling us,

00:08:20.940 because, you know, in some quarters of society, if they could have their way, they would go into genetics and go into the genome and take out the genes for aggression, right?

00:08:32.120 Right.

00:08:32.500 And I would argue that if you did that, we wouldn't get anything done.

00:08:38.100 Society would cease as we know it.

00:08:40.620 And you would take out the very thing that's required to achieve all the success that we see on a daily basis in the world.

00:08:47.020 So there is both a positive side to being aggressive, as there is a negative side.

00:08:54.000 I think, though, that a lot of times men, it's like a language that men don't necessarily understand, and it gets misinterpreted.

00:09:01.720 It doesn't get...

00:09:02.340 It seems to me...

00:09:03.400 Yeah.

00:09:03.780 Well, I was going to say, it seems to me that self-defense, in a way, is more about self-control than it is being violent and aggressive.

00:09:12.320 Absolutely.

00:09:12.760 So if we look at the word self-defense, there's also the defense of the self.

00:09:18.540 I don't think any guy likes it when he flies off the handle or when he can't seem to get a control of these internal stirrings that arise within him.

00:09:30.200 And naturally, then, guys try to find outlets to try to get a handle on that.

00:09:35.020 And unfortunately, a lot of times, it ends up being negative stuff.

00:09:38.420 Either they drink too much, do drugs, party too hard.

00:09:44.020 And I can see...

00:09:44.840 I mean, I'm sure you're familiar with the term MMA, right?

00:09:47.840 Mixed martial arts.

00:09:48.640 Sure.

00:09:49.280 Sure.

00:09:49.580 Well, that is on the rise.

00:09:51.360 And it's kind of interesting in this time and age why that would be so prevalent.

00:09:56.000 Well, I think that there's a cry in the masculine world is that most men today don't know what it is to be men.

00:10:03.540 There was a time when, as men, we would be a band of brothers.

00:10:07.500 We would go out and hunt.

00:10:08.680 We would share stories.

00:10:10.360 We would support each other.

00:10:12.020 And now, we've been told that all of those kind of energies are wrong and they're bad for you.

00:10:18.680 But I don't think you can socialize them out.

00:10:20.700 I think they're there and they're always going to be there.

00:10:23.180 And so, then, men naturally seek out ways to try to come to grips with what we could call the warrior energy or the warrior archetype.

00:10:31.740 MMA seems to offer that, right? 0.70

00:10:33.820 Because all men want to feel some sense of control, as you noted. 0.54

00:10:37.500 All men want to feel tough, rugged.

00:10:39.900 This is what men say. 0.53

00:10:43.640 But there's two sides to that.

00:10:46.940 Even if you take this idea of martial arts, you've got the one side which is martial.

00:10:52.400 That makes sense.

00:10:53.280 That's the fighting side.

00:10:54.820 But what is that art side?

00:10:57.080 And really, that's what I'm trying to do.

00:10:58.660 I'm trying to help men re-embrace the art without saying to them that any of these energies that they experience,

00:11:06.160 even though society is telling them that they're bad, there's nothing wrong with them.

00:11:10.900 It's just that it's misplaced and they don't really understand the language.

00:11:14.160 And what happens if we learn how to understand that in a productive way so that we can use those energies in a way to not only have a better sense of control over ourselves and our environment,

00:11:25.660 but uplift the world that we live in.

00:11:28.120 So when it comes specifically to defending yourself, we talk about self-control.

00:11:32.700 What is that balance?

00:11:33.860 Where is that line?

00:11:34.720 And how do you find the line between restraint and control and moderation to,

00:11:40.080 okay, now I'm in the position where I do need to defend myself or I do need to act aggressively,

00:11:45.580 not chaotically, but aggressively to neutralize a situation I might find myself in?

00:11:52.220 So I guess there's two things there, right?

00:11:53.720 The one thing that stands out just in that question is I would think that where I am now as a martial artist,

00:12:00.980 that there was a time when I would kind of fight out of aggression because I thought that that was necessary in order to do the business.

00:12:08.380 But it left such kind of residual negative energy that I found that the more I fought in the gym,

00:12:18.300 the more it seemed to become part of my everyday life because I'm a firm believer that there's no way of separating those two worlds out.

00:12:26.580 So the way that people express themselves on the mat is the way that they express themselves in the world.

00:12:30.900 When I was able to actually engage in, say, sparring, which is kind of like a way of seeing what you can actually do in a potential fight,

00:12:39.960 although it's not a real fight because there's still rules.

00:12:42.560 Right, sure.

00:12:43.060 But when I was able to do it without becoming attached to the way that I was feeling and thinking,

00:12:49.200 and I was able to be completely mindful in the moment without that attachment to a narrative, to a story,

00:12:55.320 I realized that I could do what I needed to do in order to, quote-unquote, defend myself.

00:13:01.240 But I didn't have to go into that kind of negative spiral that often is associated with it.

00:13:06.720 And this is something that has always been part and parcel of, for example, warrior cultures like the samurai.

00:13:14.380 There's a quote that goes on the line of something similar to this where they talk about the samurai going onto the battlefield as if he had already died.

00:13:23.300 Well, they're not saying he's suicidal.

00:13:25.600 What they're saying is he's done the training and he's there, present, in the moment, and he will just respond to whatever arises without attachment.

00:13:34.100 It almost sounds like we hear things like the quiet guy is usually the most confident or the one who's making the most noise or the most ruckus is the one who has the biggest self-esteem issues.

00:13:43.960 And it sounds like that's what you're talking about here.

00:13:45.500 Yeah, because every great fighter that I've ever been around and had the privilege to learn from, if we could call them just as a general term, call them a fighter.

00:13:55.200 But I would say that they were more martial artists than fighters.

00:13:58.520 They were unassuming.

00:13:59.880 You would never have thought that they had the skills that they had.

00:14:02.960 But those skills that they had in their ability to defend themselves didn't just stay within the realm of self-defense.

00:14:11.020 It also moved into other parts of their life.

00:14:14.100 So that calmness that they were able to show on the mat when most other people are falling apart or spiraling into this whole aggressive kind of vortex, when they were completely calm on the mat, they were also calm in their life.

00:14:28.380 And I think, you know, for a lot of times for guys, where do we get to practice these skills these days?

00:14:34.440 I mean, back in the day, you know, when we were hunter-gatherers, when we were part of a tribe, when we went out on the hunt, these were the times where we practiced these skills.

00:14:42.780 I mean, think about going on a hunt if you only had spears and bow and arrows.

00:14:48.060 You couldn't be overly aggressive.

00:14:50.120 You had to be patient.

00:14:51.720 You had to be calm.

00:14:53.340 You had to be resilient.

00:14:55.060 You know, all these things would come out because it could take days.

00:14:58.640 And if you rushed in too quickly, the buck that you were trying to hunt down would run away.

00:15:03.960 Right.

00:15:04.120 So where would you learn that, though?

00:15:05.520 You would learn that from other hunters, from your mentors.

00:15:09.120 And we don't have that today for men.

00:15:10.760 Those things no longer exist.

00:15:13.160 And I think martial arts still has an opportunity and a place in the world where it can actually help men have a modern-day initiation right where they can learn to engage with their primitive nature, but in such a way that it becomes a productive aspect, not only in a self-defense environment, but also as they move into the world.

00:15:34.260 And so coming back to what I said was that all the greatest fighters that I ever met were not only calm on the mat, but were calm in life.

00:15:41.780 They were able to move through the world in a way that exuded confidence, but never with arrogance.

00:15:47.980 And this is what's something that stood out for me.

00:15:52.060 And again, this is nothing new.

00:15:53.500 Anybody that – any of the guys listening to this that have watched martial art movies, as probably we both have, when I was growing up, you know, the Bruce Lee movies, the Jackie Chan movies.

00:16:03.440 Sure.

00:16:03.820 The thing that was attractive there, if we're really honest, wasn't really the fighting scenes, although that was cool, but I think what most men found attractive was this guy that was unassuming, that was being picked on in his neighborhood, or there was a gang that came into his village, and there was nothing he could do about it.

00:16:23.140 And he went off, and he went and looked for a teacher, he found a teacher, he learned the martial skills, so he learned how to fight, but in the process, the teacher also taught him about the art, how to live.

00:16:36.120 And in actual fact, when he came back to face down those bullies, he tried to talk his way through this.

00:16:42.900 He tried to talk them out of this whole thing and get them to leave amicably.

00:16:47.620 And then when that wasn't available, he would do what he needed to do.

00:16:51.660 He would fight them, but he would only go as far as he needed to to prove his point.

00:16:56.780 And there's always that climax in the movie, right, where he's beaten the guy.

00:17:00.480 He turns his back and he's walking away because he knows that he's won.

00:17:04.400 And it's the typical scene in the movie, right?

00:17:06.100 The guy cheats, he pulls out a plane or something.

00:17:08.400 And then he does whatever he needs to do to end it, and he walks off as if it never happened.

00:17:14.340 He doesn't carry it as a burden.

00:17:15.960 I think that is what has always attracted men to those martial art movies.

00:17:21.520 I know that it attracted me.

00:17:23.320 And so if I'm really honest, even though I went through the fight cycle and I spent several

00:17:26.980 years outside some of the roughest nightclubs in Johannesburg as a head doorman, I've also

00:17:31.520 done my stint in the military, all those kinds of things.

00:17:35.020 Outside of that, the fighting aspect and knowing that you can do it, that part of that, that

00:17:40.260 story was always more powerful.

00:17:42.920 It was always something that I was looking for.

00:17:45.180 But it took a lot of courage to be able to say that that's what I really wanted to do

00:17:49.280 because it's so easy to go down what I call the red road, to get sucked into the negative

00:17:55.020 side of the warrior energy because it's like a Star Wars moment, right?

00:18:00.120 It's like the dark side of the force.

00:18:02.920 Sure.

00:18:03.160 It's exciting and it's appealing.

00:18:05.280 Yeah, exactly.

00:18:06.400 But the real self-defense is getting that handle over yourself, is beating the inner opponent.

00:18:14.080 And I'm telling you now, beating my inner opponent was the hardest fight I ever had to take on,

00:18:20.100 harder than anybody I ever had to face.

00:18:22.460 And I've trained people from special force military operators right through to world champions.

00:18:27.760 Some of the people that have come to my seminars have gone on to compete in the UFC.

00:18:31.780 So I've been there.

00:18:33.000 What do you mean by inner component, or excuse me, inner opponent?

00:18:37.460 When you say that, what was that inner opponent for you?

00:18:40.640 How did that manifest itself and how were you able to overcome that?

00:18:43.720 So it's kind of interesting, right?

00:18:45.240 I mean, just quickly, just to give a brief, you know, just idea of where I came from.

00:18:49.520 I was born in Johannesburg on the south side of Johannesburg, which is government housing.

00:18:54.900 It's similar to the projects in the United States.

00:18:57.440 So I grew up really poor.

00:18:58.960 Gangs were rife in my neighborhood.

00:19:00.500 So when I wasn't trying to bypass the gangs and having roots to get around them, I was trying to survive the bullies at school.

00:19:08.540 Very early on, it was very evident to me that how smart you were was completely irrelevant, but how tough you were was all that mattered.

00:19:16.360 And really, that's the way it seemed to me is that you needed to be tough, and you had to be tough to survive that.

00:19:20.960 And so I imported that mindset into my life.

00:19:23.260 And even once I got through the military and I opened up my first gym and I started teaching and started getting a reputation, I thought that that's the only way to be taken seriously in the environment that I found myself to be tough, even as I stood outside some of the roughest nightclubs in Johannesburg.

00:19:38.540 But what I never told anybody was that even though I was winning the physical fights all the time, my insecurities remained.

00:19:47.280 I still felt insecure.

00:19:48.920 I still felt I had no self-esteem.

00:19:51.080 I still felt that I had no confidence. 0.57

00:19:53.140 In actual fact, even though I was winning these fights, I was shitting myself most of the time.

00:19:57.380 And so that was a realization for me was that I'm at the epitome of my physical game.

00:20:04.300 Nobody can beat me.

00:20:05.600 I'm untouchable.

00:20:06.560 Everybody's afraid of me, especially other men.

00:20:08.960 Yet, I'm more afraid now than I've ever been before.

00:20:12.300 And that was a realization for me.

00:20:14.280 And I'm not the only one to say that.

00:20:16.880 I have other people that I'm acquainted with that have gone through kind of violent stages in their life.

00:20:22.140 And even though one of my friends was an ex-bare-knuckle boxing champion, he said the exact same thing.

00:20:28.480 He said he's never been more afraid than when he was at the top of his physical game.

00:20:32.900 So what changed in your life to be able to turn this corner and get control of that inner opponent for you?

00:20:39.340 I think the first realization was, is this as good as it gets?

00:20:42.640 Is this how it's going to be for the rest of my life?

00:20:45.520 I mean, I was in the fight world.

00:20:46.880 This is what I did for a living.

00:20:48.060 All my bills were paid by basically either fighting or teaching other people how to fight.

00:20:53.040 But when you look at it, it just seemed like a senseless way to live in the world.

00:20:57.320 It didn't seem like I was really making a difference, not only in my own life, but in anybody else's life.

00:21:02.700 So I made the hard decision that I needed to find a better way to experience this.

00:21:07.360 I didn't want to give up martial arts, although I did stop teaching for a little while because I felt that I was suffering from what I called a tough guy's depression.

00:21:16.240 So I was depressed, and so I stopped teaching.

00:21:20.040 So I kind of said to myself, if I'm going to come back into this world, I need to find a positive way to do it.

00:21:24.860 It needs to be more than just about the fight.

00:21:26.880 And so my realization was that I'd only been following one part of this path, which was the martial path.

00:21:33.240 But I had forgotten and neglected the art.

00:21:35.920 Coming back to the story that I mentioned earlier when we talk about those old kung fu movies,

00:21:40.120 that was really what those old teachers taught.

00:21:44.080 It wasn't just the martial.

00:21:45.320 They taught the art.

00:21:46.820 And this is something that I also realized when I was reading about the samurai.

00:21:52.080 The samurai spent an inordinate amount of time in what could be considered the soft skills.

00:21:57.880 They taught the samurai they had to be really not just good.

00:22:01.460 They had to be a master of calligraphy.

00:22:03.280 They had to be a master of the tea ceremony. 0.51

00:22:05.640 They had to be a master of theater and so on.

00:22:07.940 And so we could ask the question, why would a warrior culture, where ultimately your destiny is to go onto the field and go to battle,

00:22:16.540 why would you spend all this time on these soft skills?

00:22:20.060 Well, I think the elders of that society realized that if you only teach somebody in the martial,

00:22:27.840 the very person that you charge to protect the society becomes the very person that destroys it.

00:22:32.960 And they're going to start first by destroying themselves.

00:22:35.260 And once they destroy themselves, because they cannot get a handle of their inner opponent,

00:22:40.140 because they thought by just following the martial path that that was going to help them overcome that inner opponent,

00:22:46.700 you would become less afraid, right?

00:22:48.780 You become more secure, more confident.

00:22:51.380 But what I found and what the samurai realized is actually the opposite is true.

00:22:55.820 That unless you balance that warrior energy with the art, it becomes dysfunctional.

00:23:01.180 Rather than becoming a warrior, you become a mercenary.

00:23:05.020 And that's always a dangerous place to be.

00:23:07.380 You know, a lot of times this idea of the warrior gets a negative connotation around it.

00:23:13.120 But that's because the idea of a warrior is misunderstood.

00:23:16.420 A warrior always serves an ideal greater than himself.

00:23:20.080 But when it's all about you and it's only about your narcissistic needs, you're not a warrior.

00:23:24.580 You're a mercenary.

00:23:26.180 And that tells me and what I knew about myself was that that inner opponent, that thing that I always wanted to overcome,

00:23:33.560 which I thought fighting would help me do that, what fighting does is it makes it worse.

00:23:39.080 And so what you have to do is you have to become at peace with your inner opponent.

00:23:44.360 You have to go into it and befriend it, not as an enemy, but as your shadow.

00:23:50.460 And it's through your shadow that you discover the very unique parts of yourself.

00:23:55.860 And also that's where you find the courage to take on things that in normal sense, you may have been too afraid to do.

00:24:03.100 What are some modern day soft skills?

00:24:05.720 I mean, you talk about the samurais with calligraphy and the tea ceremony.

00:24:08.840 What are some modern day soft skills that you think men need to participate in to find the balance between the warrior, like you say, and that refined man?

00:24:17.780 The way that I approach it is I like to teach these primal arts and martial arts is obviously my vehicle.

00:24:26.600 But the soft skill that I teach along with that is the ability to be mindful while you're in what is typically considered from the outside a violent experience.

00:24:39.080 If I'm sparring you, for example, and we put on gloves and we go at each other, if we can be mindful while we do that, that even though we're feeling and thinking a certain way, that we're not buying into our narrative, we're not creating a story around it, we're able to be completely present in the moment.

00:24:57.980 That is a soft skill because if we go back and we understand what mindfulness really means, it means to be present, specifically to be non-judgmental.

00:25:10.780 And I would argue that, like I said earlier, I don't believe that there's any emotion that's negative.

00:25:15.340 What's often negative is the story, the narrative that we create around it.

00:25:21.180 So if I'm sparring you and you catch me with a shot, and there's maybe people on the side that are watching, and I feel that because I'm the teacher, I shouldn't be able to be hit.

00:25:32.540 And now I'm attaching to that story and I'm thinking about what other people might have thought of me and they might think that I don't necessarily have the skill or I don't deserve to be there because you're a beginner and you caught me.

00:25:41.440 See, that's really the problem.

00:25:43.760 Get what I'm saying?

00:25:44.440 That story is the problem.

00:25:46.240 It's not necessarily what the feeling, what the sensations are, or the emotions.

00:25:50.480 It's the story I attach to it that creates my problems.

00:25:54.180 But what happens if I can let go of the story?

00:25:57.340 What happens if I can surf that edge of the chaos without attaching to the story and just be completely present in the moment and be in what's considered, I guess, a violent place to be?

00:26:07.700 Because most people who don't understand martial arts just think it's about violence.

00:26:12.000 But I would argue that when you approach it from that perspective, it's about becoming more as a human being and, in actual fact, overcoming the violence.

00:26:20.840 Because I don't think that you can overcome the violence within yourself by ignoring it or pretending that it doesn't exist.

00:26:28.320 What you need to learn to do is to be with it in a different way, to befriend it, as I said earlier, and to learn to not attach to your narrative, to your stories.

00:26:37.200 Because most of us spend an inordinate amount of our time, either in the past or the future, hanging on to past mistakes or worrying about what's going to happen next.

00:26:46.640 What we need to be is more present.

00:26:48.820 Now, there's no more of a powerful experience, an embodied experience, than being in the midst of this chaotic environment where you're trying to hit me and I'm trying to hit you, but we're being present at the same time, that we're being mindful in that experience.

00:27:03.600 It's liberating.

00:27:04.480 Not only oftentimes do you find yourself going to a flow state, which in itself is a beautiful place to be, but what you start to realize is that just because you feel or think a certain way doesn't mean that you can't achieve what you need to achieve.

00:27:19.220 And that's a liberating place to be.

00:27:21.040 It's a liberating thinking process to have.

00:27:23.800 So I've got a follow-up question on this situation where you said that if a student maybe catches the teacher and you talk about not attaching a story to that and being present and mindful, what would be the better outcome in that scenario?

00:27:39.800 How would you address that specific scenario?

00:27:42.160 What does it mean to be mindful in that lesson?

00:27:45.040 Well, if I'm not attaching a story to it, then I'm not either moving into the past or the future, which means I'm completely in the present moment.

00:27:54.640 And the outcome is that I just continue to do what I need to do.

00:27:58.220 In that moment in time, it means I need to spar.

00:28:01.300 But I mean, you could take that and you can export that idea anywhere else.

00:28:05.780 And we can say, let's say, for example, I've got this business idea and I need to pitch it to people.

00:28:13.020 And I'm starting to do my pitch, but I'm watching how people are responding to it.

00:28:18.440 And for whatever reason, I think that it's not going well based on how they're reacting just from their body language.

00:28:24.500 And I start going into a narrative in my head.

00:28:26.800 Nobody's aware of that I'm going into that narrative, but I'm going into it.

00:28:29.620 And I start trying to change the way that I'm working on my pitch to try to change the way people are perceiving how I'm talking to them.

00:28:38.320 What often happens, and anybody's been in that experience, what you end up doing is you get yourself into a lot of trouble and you start fumbling.

00:28:44.700 You start kind of messing up.

00:28:46.720 And before you know it, you lose track of where you are.

00:28:49.140 Where if you could just be mindful and not have the story and just be present and say what you need to say in that moment in time, more often than not, it works out the way that it needs to work out.

00:29:01.220 Because I think…

00:29:01.600 So I'm really…

00:29:02.540 Yeah.

00:29:03.440 I was going to say I'm really fascinated by this because…

00:29:05.820 And I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a minute because we need to have this conversation a little bit more.

00:29:10.240 And that is where is this balance of adapting?

00:29:13.000 Let's say you receive a strike.

00:29:16.720 How do you then tell yourself, I've got to avoid or I've got to watch that and make sure that doesn't happen?

00:29:23.340 I mean there is something to be said for adaptation, correct?

00:29:26.860 There is.

00:29:27.560 But there's an aspect of training, right?

00:29:29.500 I mean it depends on who we're talking about.

00:29:31.300 I have a high level of training.

00:29:32.820 I do have a skill set that I can rely on.

00:29:35.020 But I'm also going to argue that a lot of times that that kind of thinking as you proposed right now will get me into trouble.

00:29:44.160 Because one of the things that's going to happen by having those thoughts that you just suggested, what that's going to do is going to make me fixate on that.

00:29:52.160 And rather than avoiding the next strike, the fact that I'm fixating on not getting hit again and trying to avoid it, I lose touch with the present moment.

00:30:00.700 And here's the thing, it doesn't matter if I'm in the future or past thinking, you're still going to hit me.

00:30:07.760 And so the only real experience that I ever have is in the present moment.

00:30:12.640 So this steps into another conversation about learning to trust your natural intelligence.

00:30:18.440 I think there's also a perception out there a lot of times, and this is definitely in the Western world, if you're not thinking it, then it's not real.

00:30:25.620 We've actually, even as men, I see it all the time, have neglected our natural intelligence, our primal nature.

00:30:34.900 The body is amazing.

00:30:36.460 It can do things without you.

00:30:37.940 Actually, by getting yourself out of the way, getting your thinking mind out of the way, you'll be surprised what your body is actually able to do.

00:30:45.280 And so what I'm making the argument for is actually a lot of times that narrative that typically is hinged either to a past experience or a future thing that you want to happen is the very thing that gets us into trouble.

00:31:00.840 I'm not saying that there isn't a time where you don't want to set goals.

00:31:04.400 Maybe what we should define here is, say, make a difference between a performance environment where you actually have to perform and you have to bring your skills to bear, whatever that may be, versus where it isn't a performance environment.

00:31:19.060 So there's a time and place to have those thoughts about planning for the future or reflecting on the past so you don't keep making the same mistakes over and over.

00:31:27.680 But if you're in the midst of a performance environment, for example, sparring, where you're just doing what you need to do to bring your best game and I'm doing what I'm doing to bring my best game, in that moment in time, past and future thinking can get us into trouble.

00:31:44.920 I completely agree with what you say.

00:31:46.660 This is such an important discussion.

00:31:48.020 I get asked a lot of questions about what should I do to blank?

00:31:53.820 What should I do to get in better shape?

00:31:55.620 What should I do to start a business?

00:31:57.180 And my answer more often than not is, I bet you already know what to do, but for some reason, you're not currently doing it.

00:32:04.960 Exactly.

00:32:05.100 I think that's what we're talking about here.

00:32:06.900 It's really just a matter of relying on your preparation and your life experiences to now perform.

00:32:12.620 It's time to take action and time to move forward.

00:32:15.680 Exactly.

00:32:16.260 And there's also this idea of perfection, right?

00:32:19.140 I mean, I'm an entrepreneur.

00:32:20.620 I know you are as well.

00:32:22.460 Probably many people listening to this, many of the guys are entrepreneurs.

00:32:25.500 I have a lot of entrepreneurial clients.

00:32:28.960 And one of the biggest things that I notice is that they're always waiting for perfect to happen before they make a move.

00:32:34.440 Well, if you're waiting for perfection, you're going to be waiting a long time, right?

00:32:38.860 Because perfection is an illusion.

00:32:41.500 And so what you need to learn is you need to learn to be able to move towards your goals even though things aren't perfect.

00:32:47.700 There is a beauty in imperfection.

00:32:50.820 And if you wait for perfection to happen, it will never happen.

00:32:54.980 And so one of the kind of learning experiences there on the mat is learning that things don't have to be 100% perfect for you to make the move that you need to make.

00:33:04.040 And also, just because you're feeling or thinking a certain way doesn't define the outcome of that experience.

00:33:10.580 What often will define the outcome of that experience is the story that you attach to it.

00:33:17.460 And if you can not have that story that holds you back, if you can learn to be mindful, which is to allow whatever arises to arouse.

00:33:25.620 It's not like you're ignoring it.

00:33:26.760 You know what is happening inside you.

00:33:29.840 But without judgment, you could just look at it as curiosity.

00:33:33.660 I can say, well, there is fear.

00:33:35.560 But why do I need to bring anything else into that discussion?

00:33:38.600 If I can just leave it as it is and continue to do what I need to do, I'll be able to move towards my goals.

00:33:46.960 And that, to me, is a powerful place.

00:33:49.360 It took me forever to learn that.

00:33:50.840 And I think what's difficult, if somebody is listening to this, the difficulty that people have with this is that it's counterintuitive.

00:33:58.100 And that's not what we've been sold by society.

00:34:01.420 I mean, most people, you know, this whole idea of the cult of optimism is a good example, you know, thinking positive all the time and so forth.

00:34:11.220 But there's a lot of research to show that actually a lot of people who are overly optimistic also are the kinds of people that don't achieve anything because they're not willing to put the work in.

00:34:22.620 They think it's just going to happen.

00:34:23.540 Right. I think it's going to work out.

00:34:24.480 It's just going to work out, right? 0.99

00:34:26.280 It's kind of the idea of the secret, which is the biggest bullshit movie ever made. 0.99

00:34:31.860 You know, think it and it will happen. 0.98

00:34:34.220 No, it doesn't work that way.

00:34:36.000 Right.

00:34:36.460 Actually, a lot of times the stuff that you're thinking can be the very thing that holds you back.

00:34:40.720 So you just need to get to a place where you decide this is what I want to do and I'm going to move towards it.

00:34:46.900 I don't need to be 100% ready.

00:34:48.760 I just have to move towards my goal and that gives you an embodied trust, which is far more beneficial than falling prey to the cult of optimism.

00:35:00.220 That's kind of what I'm saying.

00:35:01.440 But like I said, I think it's counterintuitive.

00:35:03.740 I mean, a lot of times, like even when I'm dealing with people on the mat, they want to know what's the next move.

00:35:11.580 You know, surely there must be a sequence that I can do that's going to basically put me in a position where I can beat this opponent.

00:35:17.640 That's how a lot of martial arts styles have been set up as well.

00:35:21.040 It's kind of this predefined step-by-step approach, right?

00:35:24.040 As if somehow you can take a chaotic environment and break it down to its smallest components.

00:35:29.960 And if you understand the smallest components, you have a sense of control.

00:35:33.440 Well, anybody that knows anything about a chaotic environment knows that the more you try to predict it, the further you move away from the prediction.

00:35:41.080 Sure.

00:35:41.500 You're actually manipulating it.

00:35:43.440 Mm-hmm.

00:35:44.360 Yeah.

00:35:44.820 Interesting.

00:35:45.560 Interesting.

00:35:45.860 So, all right.

00:35:46.680 So, Rodney, let's say somebody is listening to this and they see the value of what you're talking about, that the artistic side of martial arts is something that can apply across every facet of life.

00:35:57.100 How do you suggest a man get started down the path that you've headed down over the past several decades?

00:36:04.080 Read my book.

00:36:05.120 I wrote a book about this.

00:36:06.440 We didn't really go into it.

00:36:07.440 There are a whole bunch of tools that I outlined that I learned through the martial art experience that I apply not only to martial arts but to my everyday life.

00:36:17.480 My book is called Full Contact Living.

00:36:19.700 It's essentially what I'm teaching there is how to take on the martial arts of everyday life.

00:36:23.860 And so, I outlined six principles in the book that are embodied principles that anybody could use.

00:36:30.900 And it's even though I wrote it from a martial artist perspective and what I'd learned, you don't need to be a martial artist to get something out of the book.

00:36:39.200 I think anybody, any guy could read that book and gain a lot of valuable insight into things that they may have intuitively known but maybe not really have understood how to actually utilize that.

00:36:53.440 And so, it goes into applying that beyond martial arts into everyday life, in your work, in your professional life.

00:37:00.760 That's kind of what the book focuses on.

00:37:02.260 So, I would say that that would be a good place to start.

00:37:05.000 I mean, I wish that book was written a decade ago.

00:37:08.700 It would have saved me a lot of headaches.

00:37:11.940 That someone else wrote it and gave it to you, right?

00:37:14.420 Exactly.

00:37:14.440 Gave it to me.

00:37:14.980 I was like, man, that would have saved me a lot of headaches.

00:37:17.460 It really would have.

00:37:18.780 So, can you share with me the first principle really briefly?

00:37:21.820 Well, yeah, I can go through it quickly.

00:37:23.580 I mean, the first principle is something we've been talking about is this idea of imperfection.

00:37:29.320 And actually, in Japan, they have a beautiful way of describing this.

00:37:33.080 They call it wabi-sabi.

00:37:34.420 It's the beauty in imperfection.

00:37:36.080 It's the idea that, in actual fact, that you have to move towards the things you want to move towards.

00:37:42.800 And you have to do that even though things are not perfect.

00:37:45.880 And the reality is, things are never going to be perfect.

00:37:49.120 And so, as I said earlier, if you're waiting for perfect to happen, you're going to be waiting a really long time.

00:37:54.600 Then, of course, the rest of the book, I created a handy acronym.

00:37:59.280 I call it the iGamer method.

00:38:01.600 The rest of the book then goes into tools and strategies on that you can apply in this imperfection, in the world that just never seems to go your way, as it does for everybody, right?

00:38:12.900 While you're making plans, life continues.

00:38:16.600 So, what do you actually do?

00:38:18.160 And one of the first strategies I talk about is grounded thinking, which comes back to a lot of what we've been talking about, about being present.

00:38:26.200 But when you don't know how to be present, it can be kind of difficult to harness that skill.

00:38:31.020 So, one way that I teach is actually to use the thinking mind as a way to deceive the thinking mind.

00:38:37.660 So, you use the thinking mind on purpose to get yourself back to the present moment.

00:38:41.620 And I describe something what I call task-relevant cues, where you actually use cue words that you've designed.

00:38:48.040 I give some, but you can design your own to get yourself back into the present moment.

00:38:52.400 The next step goes into what I call attitude embodied.

00:38:56.040 And so, what I talk about there is the way that you show up matters more than you think.

00:39:00.580 70% of communication is nonverbal.

00:39:03.420 And so, the thing that I focus on there, though, is that the way that you hold your body, the way that you hold your posture, not only changes your physiology, and by the mere fact that it changes your physiology, will change the way that you think about yourself.

00:39:18.800 So, if we talk about moving into the world more confident, as simple as it sounds, presenting a more confident position, the way that you hold your body, changes your physiology.

00:39:30.380 This is not me just saying this, you know, the scientists caught up with this, and they know that the way that you hold your body does change your physiology.

00:39:37.100 They've done experiments where, for example, clenching your fist for roughly 30 seconds, they found that it boosts a person's confidence.

00:39:44.940 So, there is the metaphor of the body, the way that you use your body, changes your physiology, which changes the way that you think about yourself.

00:39:53.200 So, that's attitude embodied.

00:39:55.440 The next step would be pretty much what we've been talking about.

00:39:58.400 It's this idea of being mindful.

00:40:00.120 But I'm talking about being mindful in action.

00:40:02.900 It's one thing being mindful.

00:40:04.580 Mindfulness is a big buzzword at the moment.

00:40:06.700 If you're sitting on a Zafu in a meditation hall with nice, calming sounds and a great environment,

00:40:14.340 I want to see you pull that off in everyday life when people are cutting you off in traffic.

00:40:19.140 Sure.

00:40:19.660 In real life, real environments.

00:40:21.480 Yeah, in real environments.

00:40:22.440 So, I talk about how do you actually achieve that.

00:40:24.880 And one of the things that I focus on there is taking every opportunity to be mindful but starting with the mundane.

00:40:31.240 And what I mean by the mundane is the little things that you feel that you can control.

00:40:36.260 So, when my wife asked me to wash the dishes, and I'm sure you've had this experience.

00:40:41.620 Oh, sure.

00:40:42.000 Of course. 1.00

00:40:42.780 And you're like, you know, you've got all this, oh, damn. 0.99

00:40:45.260 You know, you're saying it to yourself and you're getting all negative about it. 0.99

00:40:47.560 You're like, oh, I have to waste freaking 30 minutes of my day doing this.

00:40:50.940 And you've got this whole story going on.

00:40:53.100 Well, there's an opportunity to suspend the story.

00:40:56.140 There's an opportunity to spend 30 minutes just being present, not attaching to how you're feeling and thinking about this experience.

00:41:03.380 Maybe potentially just focusing on your breath and just be mindful of washing the dishes.

00:41:10.540 Go into a store and there's a queue. 0.99

00:41:12.600 Most people, the first thing they say is, damn, you know, just my luck. 0.98

00:41:15.240 You know, I'm in a hurry. 0.99

00:41:16.240 There's a queue.

00:41:17.060 There's an opportunity to be mindful.

00:41:18.600 And in actual fact, what I've experienced in my life is that it's the mundane.

00:41:22.920 It's those little things.

00:41:24.620 If you can't get that right, then you're never going to get the big things right.

00:41:28.000 This has been just an incredible conversation.

00:41:31.260 We're winding down on time, and so I've got a couple additional questions I want to ask you.

00:41:34.640 And the first question is, what does it mean to be a man?

00:41:37.900 I think what it is to be a man is to accept this warrior energy as a natural part of who we are.

00:41:46.200 It's the thing that allowed us to be successful in our lives, but it's also the thing that was there since the beginning of time.

00:41:54.100 And so acknowledging it and honoring it and working with it productively so that it becomes a positive force in your life is a powerful thing to do.

00:42:02.700 And I think all men should do that more.

00:42:04.820 I love it.

00:42:05.340 And then how do we connect with you?

00:42:06.700 Obviously, you've got Full Contact Living, I think, is the title of the book.

00:42:09.660 But how else do we connect with you and learn a little bit more about what's going on in your life and the work that you're doing?

00:42:14.440 So www.fullcontactliving.org is the one place.

00:42:17.940 I've got my book there.

00:42:19.260 I've got a free video course that people can sign up for.

00:42:24.180 Also, I'm available to do workshops on the stuff that we've been talking about.

00:42:28.220 And then finally, www.coachrodneyking.com, which is my personal site, is another place to connect.

00:42:34.680 Awesome.

00:42:35.020 I have got to tell you that I am surprised at where the conversation went today.

00:42:41.120 When I got on the call with you this morning, I thought we were going to talk about something completely different.

00:42:45.760 But I'm so glad that we have this discussion.

00:42:48.120 And one of the things I told myself when I started this podcast is that I would never play the game of telling everybody,

00:42:52.940 this is by far one of my favorite episodes because everyone should be good.

00:42:58.240 But I will say that I really, really enjoyed this conversation.

00:43:02.820 I appreciate you and all your wisdom.

00:43:04.400 And I'm excited to look into some of the work that you do as well.

00:43:07.380 Oh, absolutely.

00:43:08.080 And hopefully your audience does.

00:43:10.720 I'm really honored to be here.

00:43:12.660 And who knows?

00:43:13.400 Maybe we can do it again if there's enough interest.

00:43:16.160 Yeah.

00:43:16.460 Thank you, Rodney.

00:43:17.160 I appreciate your time.

00:43:17.860 I appreciate you.

00:43:18.480 Thanks for sharing with us today.

00:43:19.760 Thanks, Ryan.

00:43:20.260 Appreciate it, man.

00:43:21.640 There you have it, guys.

00:43:22.320 Mr. Rodney King giving us a glimpse into how to use martial arts as a tool to achieve mindfulness and mastery in our lives.

00:43:29.780 Now, again, a reminder, head over to orderofman.com slash ironcouncil so you can get all the details on our elite master of mind.

00:43:36.360 You will want to be part of that if you're ready to take your life to the next level,

00:43:39.880 if you're ready to build some solid relationships with other men and have more accountability so you can actually get more done in your life.

00:43:46.900 And remember, also, our weekly giveaway by our friends at Service Gear.

00:43:49.780 Head to orderofman.com slash SRVS Gear giveaway to enter that.

00:43:55.400 This will be a weekly giveaway, as you know, so make sure you stay tuned for other giveaways that we'll be doing.

00:43:59.300 And then the last thing, if you want some additional resources for this show, head to orderofman.com slash 048 and you can join in the conversation we're having about masculinity in our Facebook group, which is facebook.com slash groups slash orderofman.

00:44:12.040 Guys, I look forward to talking with you next week, but until then, take action and become the man you were meant to be.

00:44:17.340 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

00:44:20.340 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

00:44:24.360 We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

00:44:29.300 We'll be right back.

00:44:30.300 We'll be right back.

Order of Man - February 16, 2016

OoM 048： Martial Arts, Mindfulness, and Mastery with Rodney King

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