Order of Man - OoM 051： Joe De Sena ｜ Living the Spartan Way of Life

00:00:00.000 Everywhere you turn, it seems we as a society are continuing to look for a life of ease and

00:00:04.220 comfort. And while there's certainly merits to finding more efficient ways of doing things,

00:00:07.400 my guest today, Joe DeSena, founder of the Spartan Races, shares with us why the life

00:00:10.960 of pushing, discomfort, and pain helps us become the men we were meant to be.

00:00:15.700 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly

00:00:20.260 chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:25.660 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is

00:00:32.620 who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:38.340 you can call yourself a man. Man, what's up today? This is Ryan Michler. I am the founder of Order

00:00:44.060 of Man. Now, if you're new to the podcast, we talk about all things manly, self-mastery, relationships,

00:00:48.960 leadership, wealth, business, health, so much more. Basically, all of the manly conversations

00:00:52.740 that you want to have all wrapped up in one podcast. Now, today, we're going to be talking

00:00:57.660 with a man that needs no introduction, Mr. Joe DeSena, founder of the Spartan Races. Now,

00:01:02.360 if you know me, you know that I attribute a lot of the success that I've had with getting

00:01:06.440 in shape to my participation in the Spartan Races, so I'm stoked to be having this type of

00:01:11.160 conversation today. Now, real quick, let me give you our weekly reminder of the elite

00:01:15.220 mastermind group, The Iron Council. By now, you probably know about what takes place in

00:01:20.540 the mastermind. There's weekly calls, Battle Brothers, which are accountability partners,

00:01:24.500 daily challenges, weekly assignments. We just got our book club launched. Man, there's so much

00:01:28.720 going on, but the bottom line is this. If you need to take your life up a notch, maybe you're

00:01:33.640 having problems in your marriage, maybe you're not happy with your level of fitness, maybe you feel

00:01:37.780 dead with regards to your work, and you want to start a new business. Maybe you're broke, and you

00:01:41.700 don't want to be broke anymore. This is the place that you need to be. This week, we're covering

00:01:46.480 all things personal and family leadership, and we want you to be one of the first 100

00:01:52.220 members. We call them centurions. So, if you're interested in that, head to orderofman.com

00:01:56.860 slash ironcouncil to get all the details and join us there. Now, let's get into the show. Remember

00:02:02.940 that you can find all of the links, the resources, and the discussion, including information about the

00:02:07.880 Agogi race that I talk about with Joe. You can find that at orderofman.com slash 051, and of course,

00:02:14.580 you can join in the conversation we're having now with over 2,400 men in our Facebook group

00:02:18.440 at facebook.com slash groups slash orderofman. Again, guys, I'm stoked to be introducing you to

00:02:24.500 my guest today, Mr. Joe DeSena. He is the CEO and founder of the Spartan Race, which is a series of

00:02:30.180 high endurance obstacle courses. Now, if you haven't participated in these things, I don't know what

00:02:34.860 you're waiting for. They will literally change your life as they have mine. Now, not only is he the

00:02:39.020 founder of the Spartan Races, he is a man that leads from the front. He has competed in 20 plus

00:02:44.540 Ironman competitions, 50 plus ultra marathons, and he even completed the Iditarod trail on foot.

00:02:52.200 He's a New York Times bestselling author of the book Spartan Up. He has his own podcast, Spartan Up.

00:02:57.040 And on top of all that, Joe has another event, the Agogi 60, which he personally calls me out today

00:03:02.100 in this episode. So let's get right into it. Joe, thanks for joining me on the show today. I'm glad

00:03:08.100 you're here. Thanks for having me. I'm glad somebody wants to talk to me. Yeah, no, we do. I told you

00:03:13.260 before we even started to hit record today is that I've been a big fan ever since I went on the Spartan

00:03:19.500 cruise that you did last year. Was that the first cruise that you've done, that one in 2015?

00:03:23.480 Yeah, the first and maybe last. The only way I said I'd do another one is if we could rent like a

00:03:28.120 battleship, an aircraft carrier. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That'd be really cool if you're able to do that.

00:03:32.920 So are you looking into that then? We are. They're quite expensive.

00:03:35.700 Oh, I bet. I bet they are. Well, I'll have that on my radar. And then if you guys end up doing that,

00:03:41.760 we'll compete in another one. But I did get my trifecta last year. So I was excited about that.

00:03:45.840 Congrats. Nice work. Yeah. No, it was exciting. You know, the biggest reason that I've really been

00:03:50.060 a fan of Spartan races is because, and a lot of guys that listen to this podcast know this,

00:03:53.860 three years ago, I weighed 50 pounds more than what I weigh today. And I actually attribute a lot of

00:03:59.520 the ability to keep the weight off and continue to get in better shape to Spartan races because I just

00:04:04.700 sign up for bigger and better ones before I'm even ready to do them. So I appreciate that.

00:04:09.240 Well, you got to be careful what you say here because I'm going to call you out live. I'm going

00:04:13.120 to have you sign up for the Agogi in June in Vermont. What do you think of that?

00:04:17.240 Let's do it. I'm all for it. Is it in June, you said?

00:04:19.960 June. Yeah.

00:04:21.300 Okay. I'm going to get that on the radar too. We'll take a look at that because I think I need to,

00:04:25.260 I did the Beast in Temecula. Is it in Temecula, San Diego? I did that last year. And so

00:04:31.160 that was tough though. I cramped up. It was tough. So we'll see if we can

00:04:34.380 do the harder one then.

00:04:35.420 Yeah. Agogi is all you. We're going to, we put something out this year called a Delta.

00:04:41.620 Oh yeah. I've seen that.

00:04:42.680 Yeah. So to complete the Delta, you've got to basically knock out the Agogi, knock out a 1.00

00:04:47.620 Hurricane. You've already done the Trifecta, Spartan X, SGI. There's a bunch of things and

00:04:52.660 we should put you through it. Because it's exactly what you just said. By making that commitment

00:04:59.520 and putting something on the calendar, that drives you to stick to the plan, lose weight,

00:05:06.480 stay healthy. Right? We don't, no matter who you are, I'm a pretty self-motivated guy. You need

00:05:11.780 these little social cues to stay on track. Right. Yeah. I noticed that's definitely been

00:05:17.300 the case for me. It's pretty easy to get off track and get sidetracked and make an excuse and

00:05:21.720 have life come at you. And unless you're committed to doing it and you have it on the books, you're just

00:05:25.480 not going to do it. That's right. That's right. So Joe, tell me a little bit about the Spartan way

00:05:30.560 of life. Because obviously I know probably most of the guys listening to this are familiar to some

00:05:35.240 degree with Spartan racism, what it is you're doing. So I'd rather take the approach of what is this

00:05:40.240 Spartan way of life and why is it resonating with so many people? Yeah. It's a tough thing we're

00:05:46.460 selling, right? Because we're selling commitment. We're selling discipline. We're selling discomfort.

00:05:51.820 And all toward making yourself a better person, get you out of your comfort zone, growing mentally,

00:05:59.860 physically, losing weight, staying fit, living longer. That's a tough thing to sell. Every company

00:06:06.180 is selling the opposite, right? They're selling comfort, convenience, efficiency, easier, better

00:06:13.680 ways to do things. And so we're up against a tie when you're trying to convince humans that no,

00:06:19.400 actually, it's going to be harder. It's going to be more uncomfortable. But that's the mindset. And

00:06:25.740 that's what we're preaching. And we're preaching it because we think the pendulum has swung too far

00:06:32.420 in the wrong direction. I think 400 years ago, it made sense that we would invent indoor plumbing,

00:06:40.120 a warm shower. In the middle of winter, jumping into ice cold water was not as much fun as it was

00:06:47.140 during the summer, right? So there are things that certainly we do need to make our lives

00:06:51.180 more sustainable. But it's gone too far. So far, in fact, right, that everybody gets a trophy.

00:07:00.060 I have a farm in Vermont, you know, we were in Vermont for 10 years. And it's a little microcosm of

00:07:06.800 what goes on, you know, not that I want to get into politics, but it's what goes on nationwide,

00:07:12.400 or with democracy in general, which is people will continue to ask for more and more stuff.

00:07:20.360 Right, right.

00:07:20.840 And in Vermont, listen, there are people that deserve and need some help and assistance. I get it.

00:07:26.860 But by and large, when you're just giving stuff away, and you're telling people, look, once you

00:07:32.820 earn more than X amount of dollars, you're going to be taxed worse, you're going to lose your health

00:07:37.260 care, it creates disincentive to work. And that's, the pendulum swung too far. And it's creating all

00:07:45.120 kinds of strange things occurring. And so we're trying, we're basically, you ever see the image

00:07:51.760 of homo sapien, you know, you see the ape, it turns into the man, five or six images. I love the one

00:07:59.300 where the image is that except the last guy turned around and says, hey, guys, let's go back, 0.71

00:08:04.060 we fucked this whole thing up. And I haven't seen that.

00:08:08.860 Oh, it's great. And so my, the whole philosophy here is bring people back towards, towards that

00:08:16.300 kind of living, even if it's only 1%. If I can, you know, if I can move them 1% backwards,

00:08:23.120 I think, I think we've won. Mindset, cold shower in the morning, it's uncomfortable,

00:08:27.800 just get it done. I do it, it sucks, but you do it, right? Burpees every day, they suck. 0.99

00:08:32.740 Get them done, stretching. It's very important to be mobile and flexible. Eat healthy. Don't stay 0.95

00:08:38.400 out late at night. Don't drink coffee and teas and all this bullshit. Oh, coffee exists, it's got 0.99

00:08:43.400 antioxidants. Listen, the whole, and sponsors are going to hate me for saying this, but at the end

00:08:48.700 of the day, a company, if you and I were running a large multinational and we were sitting in a boardroom

00:08:53.200 in New York, no matter how altruistic we are, at the end of the day, the conversation boils down to

00:08:59.960 how do we sell more stuff? Right, right. That's always the conversation, right? We've got to make

00:09:05.240 our quarterly numbers. We've got to get paid. And so, just get back to basics, right? Would your

00:09:11.100 grandmother or great-grandmother be eating it? Drink water. You don't need much more than that.

00:09:15.840 Make sure you're getting your nutrients. So, when you say, hey, what is this Spartan lifestyle? It's

00:09:20.460 pretty damn basic, right? It's going back to basics. Well, and I love that you're talking about it

00:09:24.720 because this is an underlying theme with my group and the community that we've created is this idea

00:09:30.540 of personal accountability and responsibility. And all the way from the time that we're children,

00:09:35.580 all the way up to, again, without getting into politics, the presidency, the office of the

00:09:39.200 presidency of the United States has this inability to take personal accountability and responsibility

00:09:43.920 for our own choices. So, I'm really glad that you're talking about this. You know, it's funny,

00:09:47.600 I actually get a lot of people as I started to compete in Spartan races last year that would come up to

00:09:52.040 me and say, and this echoes what you talked about earlier, why would you pay to put yourself through

00:09:56.860 pain like that? So, I know exactly what it is that you're talking about. Yeah. People are going to hate

00:10:02.040 me for this one. But I don't think the majority of people can make the decisions we're talking about

00:10:08.560 here. Like, if I had my way, I would just ban a lot of these foods and drinks and access to this

00:10:17.080 stuff because we've shown as human beings, we're not capable of making the good decisions, right?

00:10:23.420 We had doctors on television in the 1970s saying, nine out of 10 doctors recommend Marlboro cigarettes. 0.98

00:10:31.200 Are you fucking kidding me? Sure. Right, right. Right? So, we're just not capable of it. 0.98

00:10:35.780 So, how do you suggest somebody, I mean, because obviously that's not going to happen anytime in the

00:10:39.860 near future. So, how do you suggest that somebody take on this new level of accountability? Here's the

00:10:44.940 thing is, I think all of us know what it is we need to do. All the things that you just said, every guy

00:10:49.280 listening to this probably knows to a degree what it is you just said. But for some reason, we aren't

00:10:54.820 implementing it. So, how do you suggest guys start implementing discipline and commitment and

00:10:58.880 dedication to all the things we already know how to do? Well, what I do is, and this is a, you know,

00:11:05.760 there's a University of Pennsylvania researcher, Angela Duckworth, you may or may not know. She's a

00:11:11.800 preeminent researcher on grit and her and I talk a lot, grit, resilience. And she wrote a research

00:11:19.000 paper recently that we talked about where she suggests that part of the ability to stay gritty

00:11:26.280 and have resilience is the ability to put up little, for lack of a better word, guardrails in your own

00:11:32.720 life. So, in other words, you want to make sure you don't, you remain faithful to your girlfriend or

00:11:39.640 wife, don't go out at night, don't hang out at bars, right? You want to make sure you don't overeat, 1.00

00:11:46.520 don't buy donuts, don't have them in the house. So, in other words, you just avoid putting yourself in a

00:11:53.220 situation where you might slip. And so, when you say to me, you know, everybody knows how to do this, what

00:11:59.780 should they do? You got to put yourself in a situation where you're forced to do the good things. And you got to

00:12:06.960 put yourself in situations where it's harder to do the bad things, right? So, you make a commitment

00:12:12.840 publicly at a dinner table to a lot of people and you say, hey, I'm signing up for the marathon or I'm

00:12:19.680 going to do this or I'm working out at 6 a.m. You have somebody meet you at 6 a.m., right? You're less

00:12:24.660 likely to not show up if there's somebody meeting you at 6 a.m. So, you got to commit publicly, I found,

00:12:31.640 is a good little trick, a little guardrail to actually stay on track. And then, don't buy the

00:12:40.040 beer. Don't have it in your house, right? Don't meet guys out at 11 o'clock at night. There's nothing

00:12:46.080 good that's going to happen. Yeah. And this is something as simple, like for me, I know this

00:12:50.740 sounds maybe even a little silly, but it's exactly what you're talking about. It is that I'm more likely

00:12:54.940 to get out of bed in the morning at 5 a.m. when I get up and go to the gym if I actually lay my clothes

00:13:00.140 out the night before. So, I have my shoes ready, my shorts, my shirt ready. And just that small

00:13:04.880 little move right there just pushes me one step in the right direction. So, you're just setting

00:13:08.660 yourself up for success and eliminating the opportunity of failure. Put your shoes and your

00:13:13.200 clothes like in the living room and put the alarm clock way far away from the bed, right? So, now you

00:13:19.480 have to get up and go get it. Put a trip wire between you and the alarm clock so the lights go on when

00:13:25.520 you hit the string. But set yourself up for success, I guess, is the point. All those little

00:13:33.600 details matter, right? All those little decisions add up to a successful life.

00:13:38.560 Right. Yeah. No, it makes a ton of sense. Now, obviously, we're talking more universal right now,

00:13:45.040 but with the races that you have going on, some people are just participating in the races,

00:13:48.600 but how is this transitioning into the way they feel or the way they even approach their life? Let's say

00:13:52.820 they've never done a race before. They go out and they do a Spartan sprint, for example,

00:13:56.960 and they come back. How is that then transitioning into what else they're doing in life?

00:14:01.220 Well, one, you're going to start to build something we call obstacle immunity, right? When you're

00:14:05.860 freezing cold, going across a pond or completely full of mud trying to get over a wall or trying

00:14:13.660 to do that rope climb or force to do 30 burpees, believe it or not, you're putting a physical

00:14:20.080 imprint on your brain. Your brain is remapping from that experience. And so, the next time you

00:14:26.940 deal with adversity, God forbid somebody gets sick, you get fired from your job, you literally,

00:14:33.220 you might say to yourself, all right, that's bad, but thank God I'm not crawling under the barbed wire.

00:14:38.140 Thank God I'm not. You've got a new frame of reference, right? If you grew up, to understand this,

00:14:43.800 if you grew up in Disneyland and everything was perfect and then you got airdropped into Delhi, 0.78

00:14:49.020 India, you would not have the skills or the mindset to deal with India, right? If you grew 1.00

00:14:56.880 up in India or Eastern Europe, I mean, look at the top tennis player in the world right now,

00:15:05.240 how he grew up, right? He's fighting for milk even though he doesn't need to because of the way he

00:15:09.740 grew up. So, yeah, changing your frame of reference is really important. It's important

00:15:16.560 that you don't become so comfortable that you can't deal with adversity. And so, when you say,

00:15:23.600 how does the race change you? It makes you uncomfortable so you can. 0.99

00:15:27.680 Teddy Roosevelt refers to it as the strenuous life and how that, like you said, immunity. We

00:15:32.320 actually had that as I was preparing to go to Iraq. I spent some time in the military and we didn't

00:15:37.340 just go to Iraq. We spent literally six months of training stateside and then we did some real-life

00:15:43.120 scenarios before we even got into the situation. Then we did more training in Kuwait so that when

00:15:47.340 we got to that point, we had at least some idea of what we could expect. But I can't even imagine

00:15:52.680 if we didn't have the training what it would have looked like. And so, this is all about building up

00:15:56.840 resilience and strength against some of the things that we know are going to happen in life, right?

00:16:02.300 No doubt about it. I mean, that's the whole philosophy. That's the whole reason we're doing what we do.

00:16:06.740 So, how did you even get into this? I mean, is this something that morphed over time?

00:16:12.000 I grew up in a strange neighborhood in Queens and I was lucky in that I got into the construction

00:16:18.400 business and working on swimming pools. So, lots of brick work, lots of cement work. So,

00:16:24.880 it was a very gritty, resilience building environment I was in. And I then ended up on

00:16:32.720 Wall Street where I was sitting at a desk and making good money. And it just didn't feel as

00:16:38.040 good as pouring cement, as crazy as that sounds. So, I stumbled upon adventure racing as a way to

00:16:47.040 get off the trading desk. I fell in love with it and I raced all over the world. I did all these crazy

00:16:52.240 self-supported races where you cover 500 miles, a thousand miles by foot or bike or kayak. And

00:16:59.860 we're all three. I had this thing in my mind as I was doing those races that, yeah, maybe I'll put

00:17:05.040 on a race. And in 2000, I put on a race down in the British Virgin Islands, which was awesome. And I

00:17:11.640 continued to put on races and they all lost money. The world really wasn't ready for that level of

00:17:18.240 event. It was just too big, too expensive. Social media hadn't really kicked in yet. And then in 2010,

00:17:25.520 the idea at the dinner table came up to create Spartan. And the name was perfect. Felt like I

00:17:33.040 was selling out a little bit again, because I was coming from these races that were, you know, 10 days

00:17:36.880 long. But it was actually, it was the perfect length because what was happening was the training

00:17:43.280 required, right? Like even an Ironman, you're on your pike five, six hours on Saturday. You're in the 0.91

00:17:48.380 pool so many hours. It's just, it's too much.

00:17:51.160 Right. For the average person.

00:17:53.220 For the average person. You can't, you can't also have a life. And with Spartan,

00:17:57.200 it just, it was the right mix, right? It's tough. It's a serious accomplishment when you finish,

00:18:03.380 especially the trifecta. But you could also have a normal life. You can go for a hike as part of

00:18:07.540 your training. You don't need to sit on the damn bike for five, six hours or wake up at 5am and jump 0.98

00:18:11.700 in the pool. It all came together. Social media hit in a big way. You know, I'd love to say we're super 0.99

00:18:18.340 successful and it was easy, but we're successful in the sense that we're in, you know, 30 plus

00:18:22.500 countries, 150 events, million participants. But boy, I've never been, I haven't been paid in 16

00:18:29.080 years. So, so I'm waiting. Sorry for the noise in the background, but that is my trusted friend

00:18:34.780 over here who is putting silverware away.

00:18:37.400 That I was going to guess. It sounds like dishes to me. So you got to do what you got to do though,

00:18:40.760 right?

00:18:41.000 You got to do what you got to do.

00:18:42.160 I'm on board with that. I mean, I work out usually, I'd like to say every week, five to six

00:18:46.480 days a week, but it's more like four usually a week. And, uh, between that and some weekend

00:18:51.140 running, I, it wasn't very difficult to come complete the Spartan races. And then, you know

00:18:55.720 what? I actually had my boy down in, uh, let's see in Temecula last year, I actually had my two

00:19:01.640 boys, my eight-year-old and my five-year-old run the kids Spartans as well. And they had a blast.

00:19:05.640 They loved it.

00:19:06.500 Oh, nice. Love to, love to, love to hear that. Kids do love it. Kids are, um, kids are meant for this.

00:19:12.340 Right. And so, um, and that's another problem. I mean, I, we have four children and our kids,

00:19:17.300 um, this morning I was waking them up for their workout at five 45 and I got, I needed to throw

00:19:22.720 them a bone to get out of bed. And first thing I, you know, all I got to do is say, Hey, jump on your

00:19:27.740 iPad for a minute before we start training and they're at attention on their iPad. Right. So these

00:19:33.520 iPads, um, Steve jobs done some wonderful things, but boy, he's killed us in other ways. And it's true.

00:19:39.760 I mean, these kids want to get on that iPad immediately and start playing Minecraft or

00:19:44.440 something really. I mean, think about it when you and I were growing up. Well, I don't know. I

00:19:48.420 don't know how old, how old are you? Yeah, I'm 34. 34. So I don't know if this is the case for you,

00:19:52.700 but for me, Atari was just kind of getting going probably when I was 10, 12. And so before that,

00:20:01.600 it was like you were outside to the point where your mother was screaming. Everybody's mother was

00:20:05.940 screaming at 8 PM to get inside and no one would come in. And today moms are all screaming,

00:20:12.480 get outside. Yeah. Yeah. Man, there's just so much information out there for us to consume.

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00:21:30.120 as well. Now let's get back to my interview with Joe. I even had that. I remember waking up in the

00:21:36.160 morning and then my mom would say, all right, time to go play. And we'd have a little bit of

00:21:39.020 resistance and she would literally lock the screen door. So we couldn't come in and we would be out

00:21:43.940 there all day long. And the thing I remember most is climbing on rooftops and dropping GI Joe's off of

00:21:49.960 rooftops with little parachutes. And we just had a blast. So we always found something to do. I'm not an

00:21:54.780 Atari generation. I'm the original Nintendo generation. So a little bit, a little bit behind.

00:21:58.880 There you go. But you know what? I think men truly need, I mean, to your point and boys,

00:22:03.840 everybody, humans need a challenge. It's what we're built for. So what was really interesting

00:22:08.340 is I saw my eight-year-old who tends to be a pretty passive boy. He's a little tender. He's

00:22:14.800 a little shy. He's a little timid when it comes to sports. We got to the starting line and I said,

00:22:20.500 all right, I'll go run with you. So I actually ran with them. I was expecting him to stay by my side

00:22:25.120 and that gun went off and he was gone. I mean, gone. And I didn't even, he was there sitting at

00:22:31.820 the finish line waiting for me and my youngest son, my five-year-old son. And it was so cool to

00:22:37.280 see like the fire in his eye and him have a little bit of excitement. And just, like I said, that

00:22:42.660 challenge is something that I think all men need.

00:22:44.860 No, you know, we brought back a little taste of what Sparta was like way back when. You know,

00:22:50.880 apparently the kings and queens and really wealthy families back then would send their kids to go

00:22:57.060 train and do the agogi in Sparta because they were so impressed what the outcome was to living that

00:23:04.360 lifestyle. There was apparently mumblings from the upper class and the rulers. Hang on, my phone's

00:23:13.100 just ringing on the other side. That would say, you know, the Spartans get like a vacation when

00:23:17.840 they go to war compared to the way they train. Really? Yeah. It all goes back to that strenuous

00:23:23.980 life we were talking about earlier. Yeah. So what's the, uh, what's the future do you think

00:23:28.940 of obstacle racing? Because I know there's a lot of other players in the game and they're doing

00:23:32.740 different things and some of them are easier and we're trying to make it different. We're shooting

00:23:36.800 for the Olympics. So, um, hopefully in the next couple of years we'll have this thing in the

00:23:41.400 Olympics. And once we have any Olympics, there'll be a standard format. And then it's, um, it's

00:23:46.340 written in history, right? That this thing is here to stay. And so that's our plan. I think if you

00:23:51.700 were thinking short term and just wanted to make some money, you'd probably focus more on the beer

00:23:55.600 and the party aspect. But, um, but our focus is, is the sport and getting this thing in the Olympics.

00:24:01.060 Yeah. No, I love that. I think I actually heard you talk about that. So that's pretty cool. So

00:24:04.620 you say in the next couple of years, you see that happening?

00:24:06.460 Yeah. It's moving, moving really quickly. Super excited about that. I mean, I can't imagine being

00:24:12.040 an Olympic event with my family and watching the first ever obstacle race in the Olympics would be

00:24:18.480 incredible. Yeah. And something that you, you know, you, you were at the forefront of is it would be

00:24:23.940 pretty cool to see that vision. Did you have any idea when you started this, what it would be to this

00:24:28.100 level now, or is this completely further or a different track than you thought you'd ever be on?

00:24:32.160 Uh, much further than I ever expected. Really? Yeah. So tell me, walk me through a little bit

00:24:37.460 about that and how maybe that's changed your perspective or the way that you've approached

00:24:41.600 things. Uh, obviously it sounds like maybe you weren't as open to how broad or how big this would

00:24:46.140 get. So how has your perspective changed to new trials and new things that you're wanting to try at

00:24:52.000 this point? I don't want to try anything new. I've, I started so many businesses as a kid and through

00:24:57.960 my life, um, I'm on, I want to be on the downhill. I don't want to start any more businesses. And if I

00:25:03.780 look back and say what mistakes that I made, I made the same mistake with every business I've

00:25:07.680 started over my life, which is, um, you, you really got to assume it's going to be successful.

00:25:12.400 I've always, even though I'm an optimist, I I've always been really resistant to building

00:25:16.440 infrastructure in the early days, whether it's technology or whatever, because you just don't

00:25:20.620 know, at least I don't, right. Is it going to work? Am I going to want to do this?

00:25:23.420 And if I had to do anything over again, it would be, no, it's going to work and we're

00:25:28.800 doing this. And so let's build all the infrastructure and everything from the beginning. Whereas

00:25:33.200 I've always taken an approach in life to, you know, rather than ready, aim, fire, I'm, I'm

00:25:37.840 fire, ready, aim. And so that's, that's what I would, that's what I would do different.

00:25:42.460 This was really just going to be a hobby and it turned out to be, um, a pretty, uh, decent

00:25:47.480 sized business. Yeah, no, it really sounds like it. I know it's been instrumental in changing

00:25:51.780 a lot of people's lives. And I can, and I mean, just even just crossing that finish line and

00:25:55.020 there's just that sense of accomplishment and pride and, and the fact that you overcame,

00:25:59.400 uh, this challenge and, and getting through those burpees is a nightmare, by the way.

00:26:04.200 They're a nightmare.

00:26:05.580 I, uh, this last month, I tried, my goal was to do so many burpees this last month so that

00:26:09.980 in March, when I compete in the Vegas race, I've done so many burpees in the month of February

00:26:15.260 and March that I wouldn't have to do any in the race. So that's what I'm, that's what

00:26:19.200 I'm shooting for. I think, uh, last race I ended up doing 30 burpees. I missed one obstacle,

00:26:25.900 but I hit everything else in a beast. So I felt pretty good about that.

00:26:29.260 Awesome.

00:26:30.420 Let's talk about creating a community or creating a tribe, because what I've seen with

00:26:36.340 Spartan and several other brands out there, maybe not necessarily an obstacle racing sector,

00:26:41.100 but is this ability to create this thriving community and this thriving tribe that people

00:26:47.120 are just excited to be part of that? Can you tell me why you think that is?

00:26:51.480 I think everybody wants to be part of something, right? I think, um, I think whether it's work or,

00:26:56.940 or family or friends or their company, or, uh, they, they tie themselves to brands who wears

00:27:03.420 Lululemon or et cetera. And so, um, what a bet, there isn't a better thing to be tied to than,

00:27:11.020 than this lifestyle. I'm sure your friends will think you're crazy, but, but, um, look,

00:27:16.640 even CrossFit, right? There's a bunch of people that are CrossFitters and you, you could, you could

00:27:19.880 pick them out in a bar. Um, so people love community. It's gone on, uh, since the beginning

00:27:26.920 of time, right? People are part of tribes and, and we're just, uh, we're no different. If you fit

00:27:33.400 into this hole, you're that kind of peg, you're part of this multi-million person community. That's,

00:27:40.260 it doesn't matter what culture you're from, you're, you're a Spartan.

00:27:43.040 So, is there things that you've done consciously to build that or is it just built organically over

00:27:48.320 time and it's just morphed into this own thing on its own?

00:27:50.920 You know, it just morphed into it. I, I wasn't thinking tribe. I never really thought about it.

00:27:55.880 I, we had our farm, people would come up to the farm. We'd, I'd make them pull canoes to the top

00:28:01.460 of the mountain in the snow. I'd carry boulders around cause that's just what I wanted to do.

00:28:06.160 Sure. And it created, um, there were people that were interested in that pulling canoes and carrying

00:28:13.220 rocks. And, and I tended to attract those people and then they attracted some people. And then

00:28:21.280 before you know it, I heard this word tribe. Yeah. And so we found all the people that,

00:28:26.880 that like this kind of stuff and I'm sure we're recruiting many more as we speak.

00:28:31.920 Yeah. Well, I hope so. And anybody who's listening that wants to participate in Spartan races,

00:28:36.380 if you guys want to do it with me, just shoot me a message and let me know because I'd love to have

00:28:39.840 a hundred, 200 guys from order of man come and compete in these races. Cause I know I've had

00:28:44.040 a blast with some of the guys. I've done it. I'm going to do a deal for you and your community

00:28:47.520 with a go. We're going to, we're going to get everybody to Vermont in June for the experience

00:28:52.740 of a lifetime. I'm sure anybody that looks it up, it's a G O G E is going to be scared and say, 1.00

00:28:58.480 no way. Am I ready for that? I promise you, you're going to come out of that thing,

00:29:02.260 a different human being. It'll be like, Oh, you, you will come out a different human being.

00:29:07.540 It's the most incredible event. It's, it's, it's five levels up from anything we're talking about,

00:29:12.420 but, but it's really, it's doable. You'll finish and you'll come out. You're going to thank me for

00:29:18.220 it. And is there a, I'm sure there's a training regiment that goes along with it that we can

00:29:22.640 adequately prepare over the next three or four months. Yeah. You guys, we'll give you something.

00:29:26.460 You'll be easily ready for this thing. And, and, um, listen, it's going to hurt and it's going to

00:29:31.200 be a big deal. It's going to be an accomplishment like that. You'd never thought it's going to be

00:29:34.500 well beyond an Ironman. This thing is unbelievable, but, but I'm telling you, you're going to come

00:29:38.880 out of it and say, I'm ready. I'm ready to tackle anything. I love it. Okay. We're going to,

00:29:43.120 we're going to see if we can get some guys out there then. Cause I think that would be awesome

00:29:45.580 to be able to do. Yeah. Shoot me an email when, um, when we're done and I'll, I'll connect you

00:29:50.240 with the appropriate folks and we'll get, uh, we'll get your team. Let's see who's got,

00:29:54.580 who's got the commitment. You know, you, you've heard the joke, uh, who's more committed, the pig 0.99

00:29:58.740 or the chicken at breakfast, right? The pigs, pigs, pretty damn committed. He kills himself 0.99

00:30:02.860 for you to have bacon chicken, just produce an egg. Let's see who's really committed in your, 0.55

00:30:07.440 in your listening group. Yeah. Cause I know what's going to happen. I'm going to put this

00:30:10.860 out there and I'm going to have a hundred or two and guys say, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to do it.

00:30:13.720 And I'll have two guys show up. Oh, that's what happens. I, I, I used to give speeches at Cornell

00:30:17.920 and I'd get like 600 kids. I'm giving the speech to, right. And I'll hire anybody like you. I want

00:30:24.240 to help any kid. Right. And so I come down. So 60 kids, 10% of the audience comes down. We,

00:30:30.020 I give out business cards, get in touch with me of the 60, 20 actually follow through.

00:30:35.680 Yeah. Right. And even that sounds high. Yeah. It's a high number, right? Of the 20,

00:30:39.780 10 are like, Hey, we're coming this summer. We're going to work. Of the 10,

00:30:43.620 10, four show up of the four, one last 48 hours. The others all quit. Right.

00:30:49.720 So like one out of 600. Well, let's talk about this then for a second, because I think

00:30:55.080 we as human beings have a tendency to coast and be mediocre and settle for comfort.

00:31:02.020 And we create a lot of excuses. So what are some of the common excuses that you see? Not only when it

00:31:07.820 comes to participating in a race like this, but just in life in general. Well, your mind, right?

00:31:13.860 There's terms in every culture, every language that explain this, but your mind, when your back's

00:31:21.080 against the wall, when times are really tough, your mind will give you perfectly legitimate reasons why

00:31:27.940 you should not be doing this and get out of the discomfort. And the trick is to figure out when

00:31:34.400 your mind is messing with you and when you should listen. Because there are times when you should

00:31:38.740 pivot in life or turn around or quit. But most of the time, just because it's uncomfortable doesn't

00:31:44.960 mean you should quit. So the trick is to push through. I had a kid, we've had many people come

00:31:51.980 up to the farm. I had a guy come up to the farm and woke him up early in the morning. We head up to

00:31:56.160 the mountains. We're carrying bags of sand up the mountain. I said, listen, meet us at five o'clock

00:32:01.340 at this building. And we're going to do it again later today. Sure enough, I get a text. He's on a

00:32:06.460 bus. He's gone pretty quick. I said, you get off the bus, turn around and come back. Because if you

00:32:11.920 don't, you are going to regret this forever. Yeah, I know I've done. I've done enough events. I know

00:32:17.860 the tricks that your mind plays on you. Sure enough, he still emails me today. You know, six years later,

00:32:23.640 it pisses him off that he got on that bus. But and you can't undo that. So I can't tell you how

00:32:30.500 many people have wanted to quit some of the long races we put on. And I've let some quit. And others

00:32:36.900 I've said, you get your shoes back on, get back out there. Because I know they just need a little

00:32:42.340 kick in the butt. And they thank me, you know, five, eight years later. Thanks for sending me back 0.99

00:32:48.780 out there. Because that domino that fell me completing that event, triggered something else

00:32:54.260 in my life, which triggered something I changed my life forever. So that's the trick. And that

00:32:58.700 makes total sense. I remember when I got back from basic training, I felt invincible, just because

00:33:02.960 all the hell that we'd been through over the past, you know, four, six months of training. And I came

00:33:07.820 back and I just knew that I could conquer anything that ever got in my way because of what I just went

00:33:12.040 through. So it sounds very similar to that. Cool. Joe, I really appreciate you taking your time. I know

00:33:16.720 you're busy. A couple of questions as we wind down. The first one, I prepared you for this question.

00:33:20.760 I hope I gave you enough time. I'm sure I did. And that is, what does it mean to be a man?

00:33:25.280 Yeah, I've been thinking about it as we've been talking. And certainly with my wife here sitting

00:33:29.940 next to me, I can't, I got to be careful with the answer. She's listening in for sure.

00:33:36.300 Yeah. I mean, your instinct right away on what the answer is for that is, it's as a protector,

00:33:43.060 right? It's the human that needs to stand up and get stuff done for the family. But listen,

00:33:51.800 women are pretty damn tough. I've raced with women. I'll get a great story to answer this 1.00

00:33:56.060 question. I got a friend who he and his wife rode a rowboat from San Francisco to Hawaii.

00:34:02.840 And he convinced his wife to do it. His wife did not want to do it. And he said they were about seven

00:34:07.700 days in out there alone. And a storm blows in. And the storm blows them like 300 miles off course.

00:34:15.880 And he breaks down. He starts crying. And his wife, who did not want to come, looks at him,

00:34:20.500 looks him in the face, slaps him and get a hold of yourself. We are getting this done.

00:34:26.300 And she ended up being the reason. They pushed through and, you know, another 35 days,

00:34:31.440 whatever it was. Is that what it was? Yeah. Some crazy, you know, 3,000 mile row. And so the point,

00:34:38.860 you know, I got to be careful what I say, because women are pretty damn tough. You know, listen, 1.00

00:34:45.760 you want to turn to your boy, right? And say, hey, listen, I got to go. You're the man of the

00:34:49.120 house. Now you got to take, I don't know. A woman in a house is just as good. So I don't know. 1.00

00:34:54.360 Yeah. So what my favorite story with my wife is, is, uh, I, there was a couple that was stranded on

00:35:01.580 the road and they were a young couple and I pulled over. And for some reason I just felt right about

00:35:06.460 it. And long story short, I ended up bringing the couple home and put them up in a room in our house

00:35:12.260 for the night where they woke up the next morning. We fed them. I took them to the mechanic, dropped

00:35:17.180 them off, set them on their way. And somebody questioned my wife and they said, wow, you must really

00:35:22.880 trust your husband's judgment. And she says, yes, I trust my husband's judgment, but I also trust my

00:35:27.540 second amendment rights. So I wouldn't, uh, I wouldn't mess with my wife either. It's all about 1.00

00:35:34.220 finding a good woman, right? Joe, I appreciate your time. Hey, how do we, uh, like I even need to bring

00:35:39.780 this up, but how do we connect with you? We want to learn about the race. Obviously you and I are

00:35:43.200 going to talk about the Agogi as well. Um, I'll get to everybody that's listening some information on

00:35:47.520 that, but other than that, how do we connect with you? Yeah. So you can go to, um,

00:35:51.100 spartan.com. You can see everything. We've got a, a podcast out there as well. Spartan up

00:35:56.660 is that podcast, um, somewhere on the website. I wish I knew how to do all this stuff.

00:36:01.560 And that's right. We'll direct everybody there. Yeah. And then I'm pretty open book. So if anybody

00:36:05.400 wants to email me, feel free. I'm Joe at spartan.com and I'll get you the stuff on the

00:36:10.120 Agogi and we'll do, um, I really, I mean it. I mean, if you're, if you're motivating a bunch of,

00:36:15.880 you know, 30, 40 year old guys, this is what they need. It sounds self-serving and I'm pushing

00:36:21.020 it, but I'll, I'll take the price way down for you. So it's really not about the money. It's more

00:36:25.660 the transformation that I'm interested in. So let's, let's make that happen.

00:36:30.560 Okay. I'm excited about that. Well, Joe, I'll let you get going. I appreciate you. I appreciate

00:36:33.720 your time. And, uh, you know, just, I know you hear this probably day in and day out,

00:36:37.900 but I really appreciate what you've done in your life because it's really helped me transform mine.

00:36:41.120 So I got to say, thank you for that. No problem. Thank you.

00:36:44.780 There you have it guys. Mr. Joe DeSena talking about the Spartan race,

00:36:47.540 the Agogi and living a life of discomfort. Now, quick reminder to head over to order of man.com

00:36:53.120 slash iron council. So you can get all the details on our elite mastermind, the iron council. You'll

00:36:57.900 want to be part of that. If you're ready to take your life to the next level, if you want to build

00:37:00.880 some solid relationships with other men and have some accountability to actually get the stuff done

00:37:05.020 in your life. And also, if you're seriously interested in participating in the Agogi with me,

00:37:09.940 go to order of man.com slash zero five one and get some of the latest resources on that event.

00:37:16.900 From there, after you've gone through the resources and you find out what the event's about,

00:37:21.060 if you're still interested, you can shoot me an email at ryan at order of man.com.

00:37:25.020 We'll get you on the team. It is limited. So if you're interested, you got to act fast on the Agogi.

00:37:30.320 You can also join the conversation that we're having about this and masculinity and a strenuous life and

00:37:35.440 all the discussions that we're having in our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups

00:37:39.240 slash order of man. Guys, I look forward to talking to you next week, but until then,

00:37:43.480 take action and become the man you were meant to be.

00:37:46.900 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

00:37:51.420 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - March 08, 2016

OoM 051： Joe De Sena ｜ Living the Spartan Way of Life

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