Order of Man - OoM 055： Finding the Work You Love with Dan Miller

00:00:00.000 Finding your passion. It's a buzzword we hear all the time, but it's also something I know is on a

00:00:04.000 lot of your minds. You want to find the work you love. In fact, I'm surprised at how many men feel

00:00:08.600 trapped with the work they're currently doing. I can tell you from experience that when you do

00:00:12.580 start to follow the work that you're excited about, it opens up a world of opportunity.

00:00:17.740 But how do you do it? My guest today, Dan Miller, joins me to show us how.

00:00:22.340 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly

00:00:26.840 charts your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time. You

00:00:32.720 are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is

00:00:39.200 who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:44.920 you can call yourself a man. Men, what's going on today? My name is Ryan

00:00:49.260 Mickler. I am the host and founder of Order of Man. I'm glad you're here tuning in with us today.

00:00:53.160 Now, if you haven't heard this podcast yet, I'm surprised, but nonetheless, we're glad you're

00:00:57.780 here. We talk about all things manly when it comes to your relationships with your family and

00:01:01.800 community, your health and fitness, your wealth and business, and most importantly, how to take

00:01:06.440 care of yourself. This is going to be a great show today. So while I'm telling you about a few things,

00:01:11.380 here's what I want you to do. Get out your notepad, get out your pen, whatever you need to do so you

00:01:15.880 can take notes, especially if you're feeling stuck in the work that you're currently doing. Now,

00:01:20.600 I've got an amazing guest for you today and a man that needs no introduction. But before I get into

00:01:24.220 that, let me tell you about our elite mastermind, the Iron Council. Now, this is a mastermind designed

00:01:29.200 to stretch you. It's designed to test you. It's designed to help you grow in the relationships

00:01:33.140 you have, your health, your money and wealth, and again, most importantly, yourself. So if you're sick

00:01:37.620 of all the talk, sick of the rhetoric, sick of the conversation, and what you're really looking for

00:01:41.940 is the ability to take some big time action in your life, join me and the 63 other men who are fully

00:01:48.680 vested and committed to taking their lives to the next level. If that's you, if you're one of those

00:01:53.540 few men of action, I invite you to join me and the rest of the men in the Iron Council and go to

00:01:57.700 orderofman.com slash ironcouncil to get all the details and you can join us there. Now let's get

00:02:01.920 into the show today. Remember, you can find all the links and the resources that we talk about during

00:02:05.480 the show at orderofman.com slash 055. And as always, join us in the conversation we're having with over

00:02:11.100 2,800 men now on our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash order of man. Now,

00:02:17.200 my guest today is Dan Miller, and he is the president of 48 Days LLC and specializes in

00:02:21.800 creative thinking for increased personal and business success. He believes that meaningful

00:02:26.120 work blends our natural skills and our abilities and our unique personality traits and our dreams

00:02:31.340 and passions. Dan is active in helping individuals redirect careers, evaluate new income sources,

00:02:36.260 and achieve balanced living. He is the author of 48 Days to the Work You Love and No More Mondays.

00:02:41.380 He's been a guest on CBS's The Early Show, MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews,

00:02:46.020 and Fox Business News with Dave Ramsey's show, just to highlight a few. He also hosts a weekly

00:02:51.100 podcast himself that is consistently ranked number one in careers on iTunes. He's a frequent speaker

00:02:55.900 at conferences, including Social Media Marketing World, Podcast Movement, New Media Europe,

00:03:00.280 Launching Coaching with Excellence. And he also has an online community with over 15,000 active,

00:03:06.160 what he refers to as Eaglepreneurs.

00:03:10.600 Dan, thank you for joining on the show. I'm so glad you're here today.

00:03:13.060 Ah, thanks. I'm honored to be your guest, Ryan.

00:03:16.180 I have been following your work for some time now. I told you a little bit about that before

00:03:19.700 we hit record on the episode today. So it's quite an honor to have you on the show. I didn't really

00:03:23.880 think I'd be, quite honestly, ever have the chance to chat with you, but I'm really impacted by your

00:03:28.320 work. And I know a lot of the guys that are going to be listening to this will be as well. So thank you

00:03:32.160 for joining us. Well, absolutely. You know how we were connected, mutual friends, connectedness.

00:03:37.740 And although I have a lot of blind inquiries and requests, it means something a whole lot

00:03:43.880 different when a friend says, you need to talk to this guy, Ryan. So we have mutual friends that

00:03:49.840 introduce us that puts you at the top of the pack real quickly. Well, and that's a testament in the

00:03:54.240 power of networking and your ability to relate with other men and build deep and meaningful

00:03:58.800 relationships as well, which is something we talk a lot about here on the show.

00:04:02.460 Good.

00:04:03.300 The first question I want to ask you is, obviously, I'm familiar with your work. I think a lot of the

00:04:08.020 guys listening will be familiar with the work. But why is it that finding your passion and your

00:04:12.840 calling and all of the things that you're doing is such an important message? And why is it resonating

00:04:17.360 so well with people that are tuning in to what you're doing?

00:04:21.600 I think it resonates because so many people recognize they're a little off course. But if you're not

00:04:27.580 really on track with or wondering, I mean, clarifying what your purpose, your passion, your mission,

00:04:34.840 your calling, whatever you want to call it, if you're not really clear on what that is,

00:04:39.360 it's just hard to feel like you're putting your time in the most valuable place. It's hard to feel like

00:04:45.980 you're really your best. So my goal is to help people clarify what that is and not just to have some

00:04:53.600 kind of elusive, ethereal, philosophical, theological understanding of what their purpose

00:04:58.560 is, but to know what that means on Monday morning when they hit the streets. What does that look like

00:05:04.180 in our work life? So that's where I've spent a lot of my time and will continue as long as I'm around.

00:05:10.560 How do guys get off course? Because I know for me, I can tell you a little bit with me,

00:05:15.180 it would just be, and this happened over the past several years where I looked up and I just

00:05:19.020 realized at some point in my life, I wasn't where I wanted to be. Is it just something that kind of

00:05:23.000 happens over time or is there something more to getting off course, like you mentioned?

00:05:27.660 It can happen over time, but here's what happens too. Let's take it all the way back to

00:05:32.200 deciding on a major in college. Usually a major in college is determined with less forethought

00:05:38.900 than deciding where you're going to spend spring break.

00:05:42.180 Sure. Right.

00:05:43.180 You know, it's like, oh my gosh, I got two semesters to go. I better choose something.

00:05:46.860 And I've literally had people say they just closed their eyes and pointed to a piece of paper and

00:05:51.980 get a degree in, you know, business or communication or criminal justice or something just to get out

00:05:57.880 the door. But usually that then kind of charts the course and sometimes sets the trajectory for the

00:06:05.300 next 30 years. And all of a sudden, 20 years later, somebody looks up and says, golly, you know,

00:06:10.400 this has nothing to do with my passions. This is just something I kind of chose arbitrarily.

00:06:14.260 And yet it's determined the course of my life. So there's that. Another thing that's real common

00:06:20.060 is that people make those early decisions based on the expectations of other people.

00:06:26.000 So the mom who's a teacher, you know, expects her daughter to do the same. You know, the dad who's

00:06:31.380 an engineer, Hey son, you need to do this. So there's a lot of that. And I find that I'm working

00:06:37.180 with a lot of people who are in their mid forties who look up one day and say, you know what,

00:06:41.160 I'm living somebody else's dream, not my own. Sure. Now there's a third thing that happens

00:06:46.260 commonly. And that is that even success can take us off course because what happens if somebody

00:06:55.440 goes to work for a bank as an example, and they're really great as a teller, people ask for them by

00:07:01.020 name when they come in, how do we reward that person? We reward them by moving them away from

00:07:06.640 that into something else. So now we make them a loan manager. So they, you know, struggle along

00:07:11.920 with that for a couple of years. I don't really like it. They don't like being in the back office,

00:07:15.980 but they kind of make it work. So we reward them again by making them a branch manager.

00:07:20.740 Now it's, I don't care how great you are at relating to people. You better get your butt out 0.97

00:07:24.900 there and put together 13 new commercial clients this month or your job is on the line.

00:07:30.420 Right. So we forced them by rewarding them. Supposedly, we moved them further and further

00:07:36.940 away from what they really do best. I've seen that played out a thousand times.

00:07:41.920 This almost sounds like the premise of the book E-Myth as well, where you have different positions.

00:07:47.020 And just because you think you're good in one area, all of a sudden you move into this other area and

00:07:51.060 you realize this isn't something that was meant for me, but most guys will just continue down that

00:07:55.500 track and not be deliberate about getting back on course. It sounds like.

00:07:58.600 That's right. And you're, you're exactly right. It's very much like Michael Gerber's E-Myth,

00:08:02.540 but what happens then all of a sudden, you know, you're 42 years old and you got a mortgage and

00:08:07.780 two kids, you know, a car payment. And you're thinking, wow, I don't have the margin in my life

00:08:14.200 to make new decisions. I need, I'm stuck. And that's where a lot of people end up, you know,

00:08:20.080 living 20 years, the most productive years of their life, feeling like they're stuck.

00:08:24.800 So what needs to happen then? I mean, I think we can take this conversation two different ways because

00:08:28.500 you say, Hey, these guys making decisions in college about what their major is, but then you

00:08:31.860 have this other group of guys who has been doing the same thing in a career that could be successful.

00:08:36.480 Like you mentioned for 20 years, what needs to happen then? And what needs to happen now?

00:08:42.600 If you catch yourself not being on course, a couple of things, the first thing is to recognize nobody's

00:08:48.500 stuck. I mean, people say, well, I don't have any choice. Well, sure you do. I mean, when it comes down,

00:08:54.080 right down to it, you know, on Monday morning, you can choose to walk out that door,

00:08:58.240 go back to the job, or you can sit on the couch. So we know we have a choice. So we have to just,

00:09:02.680 just recognizing we do have a choice is a way to put ourselves back in the driver's seat.

00:09:08.940 Nothing is forcing you to do what you're doing, but in recognizing that you have a choice and I'm

00:09:13.760 not one to burn the bridges. I'm not saying just don't show up for work and we'll figure something

00:09:17.160 out. But when you recognize you do have choices, then you can start to identify what would the ideal

00:09:22.820 look like. So then you can create a transition plan to say, all right, what if I made a plan and

00:09:29.060 in six months I was able to move into that, but here's what happens. Here's what needs to happen.

00:09:34.980 We don't just look at the papers and see who's hiring. We don't just look on the news and see

00:09:40.000 what the hottest new business opportunities are, franchises or whatever trends. No, 85% of the

00:09:46.940 process of having confidence about that next move comes from drawing in the sand and look inward.

00:09:53.520 Look at what you already know about yourself. You know, how has God wired you? What are you most

00:09:58.300 drawn to? What are your passions? What are your talents? What are the things that you find yourself

00:10:02.220 wanting to do? Even if money is not an object looking inward is the real key that a lot of people miss.

00:10:07.300 We're too externally focused and we're too easily attracted to the next greatest thing. Jeez,

00:10:14.100 I heard about somebody who's got an eBay business and they're making $10,000 a month. I'll do that.

00:10:18.420 Well, that may not be a good choice. There's a whole lot of things you can do, but the real key

00:10:23.320 is, does it fit? See what we want, right? We want that beautiful, beautiful convergence

00:10:29.140 of your unique passion, talent, and money. Baby, when those three come together, you got it wired.

00:10:38.920 Right. Yeah. And you know what's really interesting about that? I've made a transition over the past year

00:10:43.080 into what I'm doing now with Order of Man. And just what you said, it's amazing how things begin

00:10:48.340 to fall in place. But not only that, just the amount of power and excitement, enthusiasm and

00:10:53.740 engagement you have when you get out of bed and the work that you're actually doing. So I can attest

00:10:57.600 to the power of what you're saying. Well, good. So what's the first step? I want to talk about one

00:11:02.440 of the things that I know you talk a lot about is finding out who it is you want to be, or even

00:11:08.200 identifying, I guess, is the better word of who you want to be. What's that process actually look

00:11:12.560 like? That process of knowing yourself so well that you have a clear sense of what it is that you

00:11:22.560 have what we call the unfair advantage. You know, there's a whole lot of cookie cutter programs out

00:11:28.720 there and even occupational things are like that. You know, you look at the occupational titles and you

00:11:33.820 do a personality survey or an aptitude survey when you're in college or high school and it shows that

00:11:39.260 you could be an accountant, an actuary, a banker, an architect, you know, a school teacher, physician,

00:11:44.700 attorney, whatever. Those are real cookie cutter applications. What I go for is, wow, if you're

00:11:52.460 talented in sculpting wood, you could do these beautiful wood sculptures like I have here in my

00:11:58.580 property and make extraordinary money, have control of your own time and be doing something that you

00:12:04.300 absolutely love doing every second of the day. But the only way you can really get a sense of

00:12:09.660 clearly of what that is, is to identify your unique skills and abilities, your personality tendencies.

00:12:15.900 How do you relate to other people? What kind of environment are you most comfortable in? How do you

00:12:19.340 manage? How do you persuade? How do you sell? And what are those recurring dreams, passions,

00:12:23.880 and values of yours? That's a very individualized process. See, I would rather help somebody

00:12:30.780 grow dandelions if that is their passion. Let's figure out a creative way to do that and knock it 0.62

00:12:36.740 out of the park rather than trying to talk you into being a computer programmer because we know there are

00:12:41.500 a lot of jobs there. But a lot of people do use the latter form. They look at, gee, where are the job

00:12:46.560 trends? You know, I have to have something with security and a paycheck. Boy, that is a recipe for

00:12:51.260 frustration and ultimate burnout. And we live in such an amazing time that we have the opportunity

00:12:56.760 to, like you said, make money growing and selling dandelions, if that's your thing. And I'm always

00:13:01.540 blown away at some of the things that I've seen and the creativity that guys have when it comes to

00:13:05.740 not only following their passion, but then creating a sustainable living, raising a family and all the

00:13:10.820 things they want to do, doing and following that passion. Absolutely. My gosh, the opportunities today.

00:13:16.800 I mean, there has never been a time, I don't think, when we've had so few obstacles to doing

00:13:23.420 something so individualistic. I mean, when you think about it, how the workplace has changed,

00:13:29.220 it used to be that if you lived in Paducah, Kentucky, boy, you better hope that when you

00:13:35.680 got out of high school, they'd hire you down at the local plant, the big plant that 80% of the

00:13:41.500 guys work at. Without that, you know, your options are going to be pretty limited. That's not true

00:13:46.000 today. You can live in the middle of the desert and you can have an online eBay business or Amazon

00:13:52.460 business or create a course that you do online or have a site like yours and do a podcast,

00:13:58.120 you know, and make $100,000. It doesn't matter where you live at all, but it opens the door to,

00:14:04.380 it levels the playing field for so many of us to really find that unique path, that path that ought to

00:14:11.100 be identified by just exactly what we bring to the table. So is there a series of, I don't want

00:14:17.500 to oversimplify or not do justice to the work that I know you do, but is there a handful of questions

00:14:23.100 or a starter question or two that we can ask ourselves to actually find that passion, to find out what

00:14:29.000 it is that's actually valuable to us? Identifying those three areas, skills and abilities, personality,

00:14:34.920 tendencies, values, dreams and passions should be something that somebody can do pretty readily

00:14:39.800 on their own. And I'm not talking about, you know, going to the desert for three weeks. I'm talking

00:14:44.760 about two hours where you really think about those things. Look back at what you've done. What have been

00:14:49.600 the high points in work that you've done and what have been the low points? What do other people say

00:14:54.820 that you do well? In looking at your personality, how do you relate to other people? Are you really

00:15:00.560 energized when you're in a room full of people or is that emotionally draining for you and you're really

00:15:04.760 more in your zone when you're by yourself or when you're working on ideas or outside rather than

00:15:11.260 inside the cubicle? I mean, those are all things you ought to know about yourself. And if not, you

00:15:15.700 can certainly get the input of other people who know you well to help you clarify that. But that's

00:15:20.540 a short term process, but so significant in helping us define what's this going to look like moving

00:15:26.760 forward then and only then. See, I don't care if you've got a, you know, a DDS behind your name

00:15:32.440 because you went to dental school at Harvard. Once we draw that line in the sand, we want to figure

00:15:37.500 out what it is that's unique about you. Then we can create what is the clear focus. Then that 15%,

00:15:44.540 which is the application, is pretty easy. And if that takes you in a new direction that is not

00:15:49.200 predetermined by your previous experience and even academic degrees, that's fine. There's a lot of

00:15:56.060 people that are making those kind of pretty dramatic changes in what they do. Doesn't mean that we

00:16:01.000 don't validate what they've already done. Usually there's a lot of carryover from that,

00:16:06.720 but you can certainly change the day to day application. So there are lots of teachers,

00:16:12.800 professors, dentists, attorneys, pastors. I mean, one of the biggest groups that I work with

00:16:16.920 are pastors who, gee, granddaddy was a pastor, daddy was a pastor. So they are, and they realize,

00:16:22.540 man, this sucks. This is not what it ought to be at all. Get me out of this where people think I'm on 0.94

00:16:28.980 call 24-7. They have unrealistic demands and don't pay me. Get me out of this. No problem.

00:16:35.400 Let's get you out of that. I don't care if you've got a seminary degree. Let's move you into the new

00:16:40.280 season of your life where there really is a fit. And that fit comes from looking inward and clarifying

00:16:45.260 what that positions you for. And I want to bring the guys that are listening to this attention to

00:16:50.340 something you just said, because it would be really easy to overlook the simplicity of what you

00:16:54.720 just said, which is stop, pause, reflect, take a couple hours, which is not very long in the grand

00:17:00.580 scheme of things, and really just spend some time thinking about. So it's very simple, but not

00:17:06.660 necessarily easy. So my question is, how do you open your mind or how do you expand your horizons?

00:17:12.960 Let's say you're stuck in a corporate job that you know you're not happy in, but the reality is that

00:17:16.620 you're in this box. You're almost the box itself. How do you begin to expand your horizons and see what

00:17:22.840 else is out there and see what else is available? You have to get excited about the possibilities.

00:17:28.800 You know, we know the old adage, and it's very, very true. Good is the enemy of the best. Sometimes

00:17:34.960 having things that are good work to our detriment in that we settle for that and without moving on to

00:17:42.320 the best. Now, we don't encourage people to sabotage where they are. We certainly don't wish for people

00:17:49.120 to get fired. But you know what? A lot of times those things that appear to be disasters are the

00:17:55.380 very thing needed to motivate us to open the door for what's next. I talk to people every day who just

00:18:01.880 got fired. I mean, you know, $400,000 CEOs who just got fired. The first thing they think is lack.

00:18:09.140 I'm going to have less. We need to turn the car back in. We aren't going to go on vacation this year.

00:18:14.140 We need to pull the kids out of private school, and I need to give up my golf membership. And I'm

00:18:18.980 like, why? Why are you thinking that the next thing is going to reward you less than what you have now

00:18:26.280 that you already knew you didn't like? How could you not imagine that moving into the next season

00:18:31.360 of your life is going to release a sense of fulfillment, joy, and peace that you've never had

00:18:35.840 and finances that you've never experienced? Because here's the irony. Now, I live in Nashville,

00:18:42.320 Tennessee. So we have a whole lot of creative people here and a whole lot of people who just

00:18:46.820 assume, well, gee, if I really did what I'm passionate about, you know, that's playing music,

00:18:50.540 you know, I'll have to learn to live on beans and rice. Are you kidding me? If that's really where

00:18:56.140 your gift is, then, I mean, I can introduce you to my next door neighbor, you know, Luke Bryan.

00:19:01.700 He's not eating beans and rice. Right, right. We could go drive up and see Taylor Swift.

00:19:06.240 I mean, look at the people who obviously know that's their area of passion. I'm not saying

00:19:12.340 that's easy to duplicate what they've done, but I'm saying that moving into where you're most

00:19:16.460 passionate, where you really are gifted is likely to release rewards and all levels, including

00:19:22.040 financially that you've never experienced before. It's a whole lot easier to make money doing

00:19:26.600 something, you know, as a perfect fit for you than trying to be responsible, doing something 0.94

00:19:31.420 you really don't give a crap about. Guys, just taking a quick time out to introduce you to my

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00:20:42.280 to the next level. We really enjoy this show and we think you will as well. Now back to my interview

00:20:47.500 with Dan. So Dan, I'm hearing what you say and I know guys, I know my audience, I know how I used

00:20:55.580 to be. And the next statement out of their mouth will probably be something to the effect of, yeah,

00:21:01.760 but, or that might work for them, but it doesn't work for me. What are some of the common excuses

00:21:06.360 that you run against? And more importantly, how do we overcome the excuses that we start playing in our

00:21:11.820 minds? Well, you're, you're exactly right. You know, there's going to be people. Yeah, but you

00:21:17.160 know, I've got a mortgage. Yeah, but my wife would never support me. Yeah, but I don't have the academic

00:21:21.340 degrees to back that up. Yeah, but I'm not really that talented. Well, the, what we tell ourselves

00:21:28.300 tend to become our reality. So if in fact you tell yourself that that's exactly the way it's going to

00:21:35.280 play out. So I don't, there's no magic pill for talking somebody into believing there's something

00:21:43.000 better. If you're content with where you are and you think that's the best there is, that's exactly

00:21:49.800 what's going to be true. But what I've found in my own personal experience in these areas is

00:21:55.040 there's probably something out there that's even better than what I'm experiencing now.

00:22:00.540 I'm constantly, and I mean every day on the hunt, but what is it that I could try? What is it that I

00:22:09.260 could look at? You know, I listened just this week. I heard my buddy, John Lee Dumas, entrepreneur

00:22:16.360 on fire interview, Brian. Well, Brian's been around a long time. I mean, Brian had a cassette series

00:22:22.800 back when I was getting started in this game that I listened to probably 18 or 20 times. I was coming

00:22:29.160 out of a really tough financial hole that I had created for myself. And I listened to his cassette

00:22:35.320 program, six cassettes, getting rich in America over and over and over again. But he reminded me

00:22:43.280 just this week, listening to him on John Lee's entrepreneur on fire, the same principles he's

00:22:49.060 talking, talked about 25 years ago, three ways people become millionaires and release the best that

00:22:54.920 they can be in their lives. Number one, have clear goals. Number two, continuous learning.

00:23:01.640 Number three, willingness to take risk. Now, when I talk about risk and a lot of what you've referred

00:23:07.180 to there in your questions set up to me as well, somebody's not willing to take a risk. I'm not

00:23:11.460 talking about, you know, just risk is when we are not in control. So if you and I go to Las Vegas and

00:23:19.360 we put the titles to our cars down on a roll of the dice, yeah, that's risk. We really don't have

00:23:23.820 control. We're just hoping on luck to turn up something good. That's not what serious entrepreneurs

00:23:30.340 or business people do at all. I'm talking about identifying what it is you do well, creating a

00:23:36.160 clear plan of action. When you move into that, that's not what I see as risky. What I see as risky

00:23:41.420 is staying in something, you know, is not a fit where you're going to sacrifice your soul,

00:23:46.200 your emotional well-being, deterioration of your relationships and less financially than

00:23:52.860 you're probably capable of. Wow. That's more than risky. That's really a tough situation to talk

00:23:59.000 yourself into. So I don't see it as risky to identify clearly what I'm going to move to having

00:24:04.300 created a plan that I'm going to walk out. Man, I'll do that any day of the week. I love it. Yeah.

00:24:10.300 And now along these same lines, why is it that we wait till the disaster? I mean, you said you talk

00:24:15.180 with guys all the time that who have just got fired and now maybe that frees them up to follow

00:24:20.320 their passion a little bit more easily than it was before. Why do we wait till we get laid off or we

00:24:26.420 get fired or there's a downturn in the market or our wife leaves us to actually make change when in

00:24:31.420 all reality, we could do it before it gets bad and isolate or at least protect ourselves to some

00:24:37.040 degree from some of those things having as big an impact on us. Yeah. It's just that old thing that

00:24:42.320 the status quo is pretty appealing. Yeah. You know, it wears me out. I'm burnout, but at least

00:24:49.980 I'm going to get a paycheck. I've got a 401k contribution coming in. If I just, I mean,

00:24:54.700 I used to talk to people. We used to have the Saturn plant just South of where I live here.

00:24:59.460 So general motors, you know, big hoopla open to Saturn plant. It was going to be the end all

00:25:03.600 in the car business for everybody. And I had guys there and guys who absolutely hated going to work in

00:25:09.780 the morning. But man, if I just put in 13 more years, I'll have a fully vested retirement plan.

00:25:16.440 Right. You got to be kidding me. You're going to beat yourself up every morning for the next 13

00:25:23.260 years to go to a job that's sucking the life out of you. I mean, I couldn't tolerate that for 13 days,

00:25:29.620 let alone 13 years. I'm out of there. If that's really the way I feel about it, let's move on out

00:25:34.860 of there. And I've seen that happen again and again, but that it's, it's that old thing, you

00:25:39.840 know, good is the enemy of the best. And if some things are, are just okay, sometimes that's a real

00:25:44.640 appealing trap to stay in rather than moving to things that are better. Now I want to be careful,

00:25:50.620 Ryan, in talking about this, because I don't think that everybody ought to change what they're doing.

00:25:55.060 I think there are people who can take that draw a line in the sand, look inward at themselves,

00:26:00.000 do that 85% introspection and get a lot of confirmation that they've made a lot of right

00:26:04.660 decisions. They really are in something that is great. And I want that to be the end result

00:26:11.020 for a whole lot of people. So I'm not saying that everybody out there needs to change what they're

00:26:15.540 doing, but we already know right now we're told that 81% of people intend to change jobs before the

00:26:22.980 end of this year. Wow. Yeah. That's a lot. Now that doesn't mean that we got to be 81% unemployment,

00:26:29.780 obviously we don't, we're only at about a 5%, which is really a healthy number, but that means

00:26:34.240 a lot of people that are going to work every morning are looking for an escape. They're really

00:26:39.500 trying to get out of that. Yeah. I mean, I imagine this is very similar to marriage. Now I know you

00:26:45.340 have a big benchmark coming up in your marriage. I'm not quite there. We're going to be at 12 years

00:26:49.880 this year. And I know that a lot of guys, based on the conversations I'm having,

00:26:54.320 lose some of that passion and lose some of the spark, but through a lot of turning it inward and

00:27:01.860 just doing some things on their end, they're able to reignite the passion. So we're not saying that

00:27:06.680 you need to step out on your wife or quit your job. What you're saying is there may be opportunities

00:27:11.020 to find some newfound passion in what it is you're doing. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of

00:27:17.440 times what happens too, I mean, I worked with a gentleman not too long ago who was a executive,

00:27:22.760 a really respected executive at an organization and moved up. He had tremendous responsibilities, but

00:27:28.120 because of that, he was no longer playing the shallow. He was no longer involved in the bookstore

00:27:33.720 at his church that he used to run. He was no longer involved in his son's soccer plan. He was no longer

00:27:40.340 involved in his own musical and physical enhancement. All those things had gotten weeded out because his

00:27:47.140 work responsibilities, they expanded so much. He was paid extraordinarily well.

00:27:52.760 And he came to me convinced he needed to quit his job and just figure something out. And I said,

00:27:57.760 no, wait a minute. You really enjoy the work that you're doing. There's a lot of reasons for people

00:28:03.220 respecting you as they do in your current position. Yeah. I said, you've allowed yourself to take on all

00:28:10.000 these other responsibilities, not with them requiring it. You're just that nice a guy.

00:28:15.940 I kind of acknowledged that. I said, you need to start saying, no, we need to go through and identify

00:28:21.240 the essential things that you do in your position that only you can do that nobody else can do.

00:28:26.500 We need to delegate. You need to get a couple of assistants. You need to say no to about 80%.

00:28:31.220 He's like, wow, are they going to still allow me to stay there? I said, we're going to find out.

00:28:36.500 He did exactly that. And everybody was like, wow, I wondered when you'd wake up.

00:28:40.940 Well, sure. You know, we want you because you do that so well. He scaled back. He really scaled

00:28:47.000 back to doing about a third of what he was doing. His income continued to rise. People absolutely

00:28:53.340 adored him. And he went back to bicycling on the weekends. He started playing a cello again in a

00:29:00.560 local orchestra. He took over the bookstore, started seeing his kids' ball games. So it was just a matter

00:29:07.020 of clarifying. And there's a new book out there called Essentialism by Greg McKellen. But it really

00:29:13.820 is in that process of clarifying what is really important. And a lot of people can do that in

00:29:19.420 what they're doing currently where they need to. It's like, geez, it's like flushing a radiator in

00:29:24.800 your car. You know, you just need a reboot in your computer. Maybe it would be a bit. Sure. Right.

00:29:29.920 Or you just need to do that. You need to take a fresh look at how can I clean up my life?

00:29:34.100 So I really do restore the joy of what got me into this work initially.

00:29:39.260 Well, let's switch gears here a little bit. I want to talk about your brand a little bit and

00:29:44.200 more specifically and along those same lines of the anniversary that I know is coming up. And I

00:29:48.700 want to congratulate you on that. Let's talk about this number 48 and why this is so powerful. Why not

00:29:55.000 60 or why not 32? Why 48?

00:29:58.100 Ah, great question. You know, I'd love to say that there was some real scientific process by which we

00:30:03.760 came up with that number. And this is a proven number based on all these studies. It was nothing

00:30:08.120 like that at all. Man, I'm an entrepreneur from the top of my head to the tip of my toes, Ryan. And

00:30:12.980 back years ago when the material that I'm doing now that really became 48 Days to the Work You Love

00:30:19.600 was a Sunday school class. Joanna and I were teaching that. No thought of that having anything to do with

00:30:25.540 income. We're just being part of community service. And we were teaching a class called Career Life

00:30:31.060 Planning. And then I changed it to Career Life Planning 101 to make it sound more like an academic

00:30:36.300 course. And then we did find the job you want in 30 days. You know, we found that some people didn't

00:30:41.580 want a J-O-B. They wanted more freedom, more control. So we changed that very strategically to work 1.00

00:30:47.460 rather than job. Well, then 30 days, that doesn't really get your attention. It's just a,

00:30:52.800 it's just a normal month. So we know that a week, a month, even a year, they're just generic terms.

00:30:58.120 This was when 48 Hours was becoming popular as a TV show. And I thought, you know, being a

00:31:03.960 marketing guy, I thought, I'll bet I could get some brand recognition if we used 48. Now it's

00:31:08.520 not going to be 48 hours, 48 days, 48 days. We brought that to the forefront. At first it was

00:31:14.740 find the work you love in 48 days. But when I started using 48 days, it was like somebody threw

00:31:19.220 gasoline on my business. Really? Oh my gosh. People were, you, people were immediately asking us,

00:31:25.900 can I really change my life in 48 days? Yes, you can. If you create a plan and act on it,

00:31:31.320 it was so powerful. We moved it to the front 48 days to the work you love and ultimately changed

00:31:38.360 our entire name. My, my company name was the business source. We changed the name to 48 days

00:31:44.380 because it was that powerful as a brand. Now here's, you know, and I, I love that. And, and 48 days is

00:31:50.880 enough time to identify where you are currently. Get the advice and opinion of other people who you

00:31:57.240 trust. Identify three or four best options for you. Do a little bit more research, choose the

00:32:04.360 best one and act. That is enough time. And that's enough time to make a decision on what kind of car

00:32:09.540 you're going to buy, where you're going to send your son to college, what church you're going to go

00:32:14.480 to, what business you're going to start, what job you're going to get. I don't care what it is. 48 days

00:32:18.500 is a reasonable timeframe. And it eliminates that old persistent thing called procrastination.

00:32:25.200 Mm-hmm. I mean, that short enough timeframe to do some work. That's right. I mean, procrastination

00:32:30.120 is the biggest thief of opportunity. People are going to, yeah, make a new decision when this

00:32:36.520 happens. You know, when the kids get out of school, when I get another degree, when I get out of debt

00:32:40.620 or whatever, and all of a sudden, not only weeks or months, but years roll by. I worked with a guy

00:32:46.360 one time who had been out of job in between. So somebody offered him a temp job at the bank.

00:32:53.140 Now he knew it was just temp, you know, but he thought, well, he can do that for a couple months

00:32:56.680 till he really figures out what he wants to do. That was 14 years ago. Oh man. It was just enough,

00:33:04.460 just okay enough. He stayed there. That's why I am so adamant about 48 days. And when I coach with

00:33:10.520 somebody, we work on a 48 days plan, that timeline, if we hit day 49 and they're still doing what they

00:33:17.620 were back at the beginning, that's fine. I'll still be your friend, still love you, man. I'm

00:33:22.280 moving on. I work with people who make decisions that lead them to new results and it can be done

00:33:27.060 in that period of time. It's that powerful. Well, let's talk about this transition a little

00:33:31.340 bit. What are some of the common pitfalls as let's say somebody recognizes what it is they want

00:33:36.480 to do and they start pursuing and they go through this 48 days. What are some mishaps or some pitfalls

00:33:42.220 that men should be aware of as they're transitioning into the work they love?

00:33:45.840 With the kind of things that are so appealing today, they often don't have the characteristics

00:33:51.060 of a regular job or a regular business. That meaning, you know, if somebody's working a corporate

00:33:56.320 job and they think, well, I really want to start a construction company or a landscaping company.

00:34:01.200 Well, that's very time and labor intensive. So you would almost have to quit what you're doing

00:34:06.820 now and then just ramp that up to make it work. We're talking about a lot of people that move into

00:34:12.340 kind of the space that you and I are in where it's more information. So could you write an ebook

00:34:17.740 on 10 tips for transitioning dads, whatever. So you put that out there and all of a sudden,

00:34:24.340 you know, you have, you sell it for 17 bucks and you have a thousand people to buy that.

00:34:29.500 Ooh, that's 17,000 bucks. And that may have come in while you were sleeping. It may have taken you

00:34:34.440 five hours to create the original document, but all of a sudden you see the impact, the powerful

00:34:39.040 impact of residual passive income. So you open the door to that. So most of the things, the people that

00:34:45.780 I work with, we do things that don't jeopardize what they're currently doing. We just start to find

00:34:50.340 those eight to 10 hour critical hours during the week where they focus on building something new

00:34:56.280 and we wait until it duplicates our current income and they make a very soft transition and go on from

00:35:01.360 there. Yeah, it makes total sense. You know, I'm in a weird boat right now where I just went full

00:35:05.880 time with this business and my wife the other day asked me, how's it going? How are you feeling

00:35:11.520 about things? And it's really strange because I'm used to going out there and trading my time for money

00:35:15.720 and making the sale and having that rush of the income. And now I might be in writing

00:35:20.320 a blog post or doing a podcast like I'm doing now, which doesn't directly translate to a paycheck.

00:35:25.780 So it's a really interesting process as I'm doing this. Well, in this space, I encourage people to

00:35:31.320 have, we develop a Venn diagram. It's three interlocking circles, but that allows us seven

00:35:36.240 distinct different areas. So if somebody wants to coach, yeah, okay, let's do that. But what if we

00:35:43.300 included speaking, developing products, having affiliate programs, having a membership site, we can start to

00:35:48.600 build other things around the same thing where activity in any one area fuels activity in the

00:35:53.420 others. And all of a sudden it takes the pressure off any one area for generating our total income.

00:35:57.960 But the combination can get real interesting real quickly.

00:36:01.900 Right, right. Yeah. I can see how that's actually applying in my business and in my life. Now I've got

00:36:06.620 a question I want to ask you that is, somebody asked me this today, in fact, and it's timely that

00:36:11.980 we're having this conversation. And the question is, how do you manage your current position when you

00:36:19.100 know you're trying to transition to something else and it becomes just painstakingly difficult to be

00:36:24.700 engaged with your current work? There ought to be a timeline. You can't continue that indefinitely.

00:36:30.660 If somebody is doing something part time and after two years, you know, the generating $500 a month

00:36:36.000 in their sideline, I'm thinking, you know, I will tell them, I don't think this is realistic.

00:36:41.220 You know, does this really have even the potential to grow into something full time?

00:36:44.820 If somebody knows they want to transition. Now, a lot of people are doing, you know,

00:36:49.320 side hustle things, which is fine. They want to continue that. So they may make a thousand bucks

00:36:53.280 on the side every month and that's fine. But if somebody really wants to move into a new endeavor

00:37:00.640 totally, then I want to see a 90 to 180 day transition. That's three to six months. I want

00:37:08.620 to see a transition. So I want to see them be able to swing that, duplicate their current income in

00:37:15.540 that time. And I think if it's a reasonable new endeavor, you ought to be able to do that pretty

00:37:21.400 much regardless of what your previous income was. So I look for that timeline so that it doesn't just

00:37:26.540 drag on. So, you know, your wife isn't saying, geez, you know, where are we ever going to see

00:37:31.520 you again? You know, why does this make sense when you're spending 80 hours a week? No, that ought to

00:37:36.580 be a short burst of intensive activity to make the transition totally. Right. And I'm sure it makes

00:37:43.440 it easier to wake up and do that nine to five job, for example, when, you know, I've got this hard

00:37:49.480 deadline and I have a plan in order to get me to where I'm not doing this anymore.

00:37:55.440 Absolutely. Yes.

00:37:57.700 Well, Dan, we're winding down on time. I really appreciate all the insights that you've shared

00:38:01.100 with us. I want to ask you a couple of questions as we wind down. And the first question that I ask

00:38:06.240 all of my guests, and I'm excited to hear your answer is what does it mean to be a man?

00:38:11.600 Wow. Golly, I got chills just hearing you say that. What does it mean to be a man?

00:38:16.540 Golly, you know, my perspective on that is probably somewhat different because I tend to be more

00:38:23.820 theoretical, more intellectual, more conceptual. I'm not a man's man in terms of getting out there

00:38:30.980 and crushing something or, you know, scaling a mountain or having a fast boat, you know,

00:38:37.400 and I like fast cars. That's an exception, but I'm not, I'm not into sports. I really don't spend any

00:38:43.700 time involved in that at all. But I want to be remembered as a great neighbor. I want to be

00:38:50.840 remembered by my kids when they describe their daddy who had time for them and helping them learn

00:38:56.420 how to ride a bicycle and helping them, you know, take the lawnmower engine apart and understand how

00:39:02.340 it works. I want to have my grandkids say that the best place in the world they know to be is at

00:39:08.980 their granddaddy and grandma's house. They want to, I've got a little granddaughter here at our house 0.98

00:39:13.720 today. We were talking about her birthday, which is coming up in about a month. She, I mean, there's

00:39:19.780 no question she wants to have it here. She, all our grandkids want to have their most significant

00:39:25.660 experiences here at our place. Very cool. Boy, to me, that's all the affirmation of being a man that I

00:39:30.840 need. Excellent insight. So if someone wants to learn more about what you're doing, Dan, your work,

00:39:35.760 obviously it's out there. I'm familiar with it. So I can attest to the importance of the work you're

00:39:39.440 doing. How do we learn more about you and connect with the work you're doing?

00:39:42.980 Absolutely. I appreciate that. Well, I've been pretty fortunate in branding the 48 days. So you put

00:39:48.420 48 days in any kind of a search and you're going to find us all over the place there. We've got a

00:39:53.180 networking community of about 16,000 people at 48days.net that is just that. There's no charge, but

00:40:00.500 there's a lot of people that are sharing ideas and resources there. Got a resource that would

00:40:05.540 probably be helpful to, uh, to your audience. Joanne and I, my wife and I have had a mission

00:40:12.660 statement forever. What does it mean to have a successful family? And if people go to 48days.com

00:40:18.960 slash safe, just S-A-F-E because it's titled a safe place. It really conveys what I think being a man

00:40:27.960 is all about being ahead of a family is all about what I want our home to really be all about.

00:40:33.160 And Ryan, I know we talked just a few minutes before we started recording here and you know

00:40:38.680 that real soon I've got coming up here a real significant wedding anniversary. Yes, you do.

00:40:45.720 I'm, I'm four times ahead of you with you. That's right. But with 48 days being such a

00:40:51.940 significant branding thing that has just, uh, done amazing things for us for a very long time,

00:40:57.540 we're going to be celebrating our 48th wedding anniversary. And that's an extremely exciting time

00:41:03.460 for us. We've got a lot of our friends. We're getting together. We've reserved the country club

00:41:07.460 locally here for a big party. We're going to have and just get together with friends just to celebrate

00:41:12.260 that. Uh, we we've had a amazing run together, my wife and I, and hope to continue that for a whole

00:41:19.000 lot of more years. Well, congratulations. If I knew nothing else about you, that would tell me what

00:41:24.060 kind of man you are. Cause I know marriage can be difficult, but it can be an amazing thing as well.

00:41:28.220 Oh, it can indeed. I it's, it's a foundation for a whole lot of things that I've had the freedom to

00:41:33.820 do. A lot of the things we've talked about here, I would not have had the freedom to do it. I would

00:41:37.840 have felt trapped, but I had the unconditional support of my wife to go ahead and try it. She knows

00:41:43.120 how I'm wired. She would have been content if I had just gotten a job and we got married and worked 1.00

00:41:47.380 there for 35 years and got a gold watch, but she recognized very quickly that would suck the life out of me.

00:41:53.520 That's not how I was wired. And as much terrified the crap out of her times, she, she knew I had to go

00:41:59.540 for it. And she's always been supportive of that. Sounds like you've got a keeper. Well, Dan, I

00:42:03.800 appreciate you. I really appreciate your time. I know you're a busy man and you have a lot going on.

00:42:08.080 Thank you for the resource and imparting those words of wisdom. I appreciate you being on the show

00:42:13.520 today. Absolutely. My pleasure, Ryan. Thank you. There you have it guys. Mr. Dan Miller sharing his

00:42:20.440 insights into how to start exploring your passion and get out of the work that you do not enjoy doing

00:42:26.380 again. If you're one of those few men who are action takers, I personally invite you to join me

00:42:30.540 and the men in the iron council. You are going to get a ton out of this and actually start seeing the

00:42:35.680 results. The results will speak for themselves and your relationships, your health, your wealth,

00:42:39.400 and again, most importantly yourself. So head to order of men.com slash iron council to get started

00:42:43.680 right away. Also, all the details of the show can be found at order of man.com slash zero five five.

00:42:49.100 And you can join in the conversation we're having about masculinity or Facebook group at

00:42:52.920 facebook.com slash groups slash order of man. Guys, I look forward to talking with you next week,

00:42:57.960 but until then take action and become the man you were meant to be. Thank you for listening to the

00:43:03.040 order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to

00:43:08.220 be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

00:43:13.680 I don't know.

Order of Man - April 05, 2016

OoM 055： Finding the Work You Love with Dan Miller

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