Order of Man - OoM 067： Surviving a 60-Hour Endurance Event with Ryan Michler

00:00:00.000 30-mile mountain hikes under a 35-pound ruck, 60 hours of work with four hours of sleep,

00:00:05.460 swimming with leeches, pushing hay bales through waist-high muddy swamps,

00:00:09.060 eating worms, surviving in the wilderness, and so much more. Sounds like my kind of weekend.

00:00:13.600 Today, my good friend Larry Hagner interviews me and gets all the details of my 60-hour

00:00:18.680 Spartan Agogi event. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears

00:00:24.920 and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every

00:00:30.680 time. You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life.

00:00:37.620 This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and

00:00:43.100 done, you can call yourself a man. Men, what's going on today? I am Ryan

00:00:47.880 Mickler, and I am the founder and your host of the Order of Man podcast. Whether you're new to the show

00:00:52.380 today or you've been a long-time listener, I want to welcome you here today. This is a show about all

00:00:57.100 things manly, from health and nutrition to self-defense and martial arts, building better

00:01:02.000 relationships with your wife, your girlfriend, or your children, starting your own businesses,

00:01:05.640 and just about anywhere in between. If you're a man, guys, you are in the right place. I've got an

00:01:10.880 interesting one lined up for you today, as my good friend Larry Hagner with The Good Dad Project

00:01:14.980 takes the host seat in this podcast as he interviews me about one of the wildest, one of the craziest,

00:01:22.280 weekends that I have ever had. And if you don't already know, last weekend I spent 60 hours in

00:01:27.600 the mountains of Vermont with six of our Mastermind, the Iron Council members, participating in what was

00:01:33.700 probably the most grueling but equally exciting event that I've participated in, the Spartan Agogi.

00:01:40.780 All the show notes, including some pictures that we talk about in this interview, can be found for

00:01:44.940 this show at orderofman.com slash 067. Now I want you to sit back today, relax, thank your lucky stars

00:01:53.080 that this was not you last weekend. Hey, what's up guys? It's Larry Hagner with The Good Dad Project

00:02:01.000 Podcast. And yes, you are absolutely in the right place. This is The Order of Man Podcast. And I am here

00:02:08.460 with your host, Mr. Ryan Mickler. What's up, man? Larry, what's going on, man? Glad to have you on my show.

00:02:15.000 We're doing things a little different, but I'm excited about this conversation today. I am too. And hopefully,

00:02:18.640 you know, we're not confusing too many people. But man, I'm honored because I know that you just got done

00:02:25.660 with an incredible experience. And you wanted to, obviously you've had several people reaching out to you

00:02:32.440 asking, you know, why in God's name would you do the Spartan Agogi? You know, I want to hear all the

00:02:37.940 details. What did you learn from 60 hours of absolute just craziness and exhaustion? And man,

00:02:44.540 I appreciate you reaching out to me because I'm honored to take you through this interview. But

00:02:48.600 really what I want to start with, man, when you first told me you were going to do this, you know,

00:02:53.620 I love being physically active, but at the same time, when you told me, hey, it's 60 hours long,

00:02:58.700 you get a few hours of sleep, you know, you could put through this, this, and this. My first thought

00:03:03.180 was like, Ryan, like, why? Why are you doing this? Which I'm sure you've gotten that.

00:03:07.820 You know, it's really interesting. I had, and I know you've had Joe Desena on your show and I had

00:03:11.980 him on the show, I think it was three or four months ago. And as I was having a conversation

00:03:16.380 with him, I made the mistake of telling him I like to sign up for things before I'm ready because it

00:03:20.020 helps me get ready. And he called me out on it. He said, great, we'll have you, we'll have you sign up

00:03:25.140 for the Spartan Agoge. And before I even knew what it was, I had committed to him. And I think

00:03:29.760 really that's important. I mean, there was a lot of times in the last three months where I wanted to

00:03:34.260 back out, especially as I looked at the videos of what these guys were actually doing. And I thought,

00:03:38.960 well, I've got to get it out of this. How am I going to get out of this? But I made a commitment.

00:03:42.120 I stuck with it. And that was my reason for doing it. It wasn't some glamorous thing that I had this

00:03:48.300 idea of. And I thought about this. I said, you know, this sounds a lot like basic training. And I did

00:03:51.940 that. I had no problem with basic training. I can do this. And then I got thinking basic training for

00:03:56.940 me was 17 years ago. And as I started to realize that, that actually motivated me too, because I

00:04:04.900 thought, okay, 17 years ago, I was playing football. I was playing baseball. I was wrestling. I was 18

00:04:10.580 years old. I was in good physical condition. And I really wanted to know if I could do it 18, 17 years

00:04:19.420 later. And so that was a big motivating factor for me as well. Like, I want to know. And I talked

00:04:24.840 to the guys through Order of Man about doing hard things and putting yourself out there and making

00:04:29.620 life challenging. And I thought, all right, it's time to put your money where your mouth is. So

00:04:32.640 let's get after it. Let's do this thing. Yeah, man. So I heard, I mean, I listened to all your

00:04:36.880 podcasts anyway. And I listened to that Joe DeSena interview. Oh, did you heard it? Yeah. I did. Yeah.

00:04:43.300 But you and I are friends. I mean, we talked about it beforehand. So I knew beforehand you'd

00:04:46.880 committed to it. So I was dying to hear how that all came to fruition and yeah, and how he got you,

00:04:52.720 you know, to do it. But you know what, that's, that's one of the coolest things about, you know,

00:04:55.860 people in our lives who are going to push us forward and keep us accountable. And one of the

00:05:00.520 coolest things he did was, is he, you know, he made you commit. He pulled you out of your comfort zone

00:05:04.900 and which is awesome. So, I mean, I, I love the why behind it. Um, especially, you know,

00:05:10.500 you want to test your limits. It had been, it had been quite some time, you know, since basic

00:05:14.340 training. But, um, I think what we really want to hear about, I mean, is, so we understand

00:05:21.140 the why, but looking at this, I want to talk about real quickly, the anticipation leading

00:05:26.940 up to this. So, you know, you don't know much about it. You know, it's 60 hours long, you

00:05:31.960 know, it's up in Vermont, you're going to be up in the mountains and in water and it's

00:05:35.100 barely any sleep. What are you thinking about just before you start this thing?

00:05:39.880 So I enlisted 10 other guys, nice, excuse me, nine other guys. And then we had two backups

00:05:47.200 and these are part of the, uh, the elite mastermind group that we run iron council.

00:05:51.320 And these guys agreed to do it with me. And just like life, you had a couple of guys back out for

00:05:56.400 some, some medical reasons, some family reasons, some of this, some of that. And we had seven of

00:06:00.980 us that committed to actually go up there. So in a way, part of it was, I want to go up and I want

00:06:08.260 to do a really good job. I want to compete and I want to push myself and I wouldn't do all this

00:06:12.300 stuff. But then there's this lurking thing in my mind, literally that like, if I don't do a good job,

00:06:18.460 if I don't get all 60 hours, I'm going to let my family down and I'm going to let the guys that

00:06:25.000 are, that belong to my mastermind group that are looking to me as for, for guidance and direction

00:06:29.700 and leadership. And then the thousands of other guys who've I told we're going to do this.

00:06:33.840 And so I felt like there was a ton of pressure on me that way. And the guys that I actually went with

00:06:39.040 said the same thing. They said, Hey, we, you know, if we fall out, we fall out, no big deal.

00:06:43.520 You fall out and thousands of people are going to question your ability to lead and guide and move

00:06:49.640 them forward. And that was like the reoccurring thing in my mind of, of the doubt in the negative

00:06:55.160 talk of, if you don't do this, you're going to be in a bad position and you're going to look like

00:06:59.880 a fool. And that was what was reoccurring in my mind. As we got to the event, it wasn't so much

00:07:06.180 that as much as it was, can I do this? And I had those jitters, just like anybody who's played sports

00:07:11.680 before a big game, you have those jitters and you get excited and your adrenaline's going and you're

00:07:16.360 ready to do this. And it's all anticipation at this point. And it's a really hard spot to be in.

00:07:22.320 I can't even imagine. I mean, I've always heard, I mean, you know, through your guests, I mean,

00:07:26.120 I know you've had some seals on the show and I've had some seals on my show.

00:07:29.080 And one of the things they talk about is that anticipation of really hard training is actually

00:07:33.800 even harder than the training itself. So, you know, I was, I was real curious and I know you

00:07:39.220 had a couple other guys who were real curious, you know, what was going through your mind right

00:07:41.920 before this? But so, so let's dive in, right? Let's dive into the actual event. Tell us about

00:07:48.120 the first 24 hours of this event. Yeah. So we, so we get there and Joe DeSena is there. He's the

00:07:54.780 founder of Spartan Race. Most of the guys listening to this and your show as well know that by now.

00:07:59.780 He's there. And on the email that we got about when to be there, I think it said,

00:08:03.940 you can be between, you can be there between five 30 and eight o'clock. And I got there with

00:08:09.020 the rest of my team. It must've been about six 15 and we get there and Joe's out there

00:08:14.300 chewing everybody out. And he's like, you're late. How are you going to finish this event?

00:08:17.480 If you can't even show up for the dang thing on time. And this is where it began. And I knew,

00:08:21.960 I knew exactly what this was like. This was like basic training. There's nothing right that you

00:08:26.060 can do, anything that you do. Cause if I showed up on time or I showed up at five 30,

00:08:29.480 he would have said you're early, right? That's just part of the mental component of this.

00:08:33.620 So we get signed in, we get checked in. They actually have to check your gear.

00:08:36.980 And then the reason they check your gear is they want to make sure you have everything

00:08:39.520 that you need to survive for the next 60 hours, literally survive because we're going to be

00:08:43.700 doing some difficult things. I remember a guy next to me, he didn't have all of his gear. He didn't

00:08:47.500 have a, uh, enough water bottles. I think he was missing maybe one water bottle. I think he was

00:08:52.520 missing his camp stove. Uh, so some like really basic stuff, which was really interesting. And it's

00:08:58.140 a lesson here as well is that, uh, it's follow directions. I mean, we had a very concise, clear

00:09:02.880 packing list. Uh, some of it was a little confusing, but at the end of the day,

00:09:06.240 everybody knew what they needed to bring. And for him to miss those things actually cost him

00:09:10.320 a participation in the event, which was unfortunate. So they shook it down. Uh, they

00:09:15.140 had us empty all of our gear and then in as fast as we could, could load it back up.

00:09:20.000 And the first thing they did is they said, all right, go behind this barn over here and there's

00:09:24.820 some stuff waiting for you. So we go over there and there's 80 pound bags of cement and, uh, the

00:09:31.940 five gallon paint buckets filled with water. And we're in teams of, I think we're in

00:09:36.200 teams of, there may have been 20 or so of us at that point, give or take, I don't know

00:09:41.740 exactly. And they say, you need to take these bags in this water up this mountain. It's Joe's

00:09:47.280 on his farm. I've heard estimates of how it's anywhere from half a mile to a mile high. I

00:09:51.880 don't know exactly how high it was if they didn't track it, but it was tough. And we're

00:09:55.540 carrying 80 pounds cement bags up this thing. And this is, this is at six 30. The event starts

00:10:01.160 at eight. So we haven't even started yet and we're doing this stuff. So we do that for the

00:10:06.140 first couple hours and come back down. Uh, and we survive that. And, and everybody's like,

00:10:11.240 Oh, that was really hard. I'm like, uh, you think that's hard. We haven't started yet. Right. Right.

00:10:15.420 And so we get in there and they've got our bags all lined up and they split us up into 30 man

00:10:19.600 teams, roughly 30 man teams. And somebody, one of the cadre, they called him cryptea. One of the

00:10:24.520 cryptea found a piece of trash on the mountain that somebody had left. And that was apparently a no,

00:10:28.860 no. Cause he smoked us with, I don't know how many burpees because he found this piece of trash.

00:10:33.440 And once we got past the burpee session, we got on a bus with our gear. They took us up to the

00:10:37.920 mountain and we literally, Larry, so you're asking about the first 24 hours. We spent 20 hours of the

00:10:43.740 first 24 on a road march in the mountain, the white mountains of Vermont up and down a trail called

00:10:50.560 blood route. And we've got 40 pound rucks on, and we've got a kayak filled with water because that was

00:10:57.840 our drinking water. And we're carrying these PVC pipes, these six foot long PVC pipes. They're about

00:11:03.300 seven, eight inches thick, uh, filled with, uh, concrete is what I heard. I don't know what was

00:11:08.080 in there, but somebody said there's concrete in there and our teams are responsible for getting

00:11:11.940 these from point a to point B. It was nuts. That's all I can say. It was nuts. So you, you had teams of,

00:11:17.860 so how many other crazy people were, were a part of this total in the group?

00:11:23.460 Yeah. So I, uh, originally 167, I think was the number that signed up, but we had just under 140

00:11:30.540 show up for the event. So we had some people drop out for whatever reason again, uh, before the event

00:11:36.600 even started. And then we actually ended our total number was 99. So we lost about 40, 45, maybe in the

00:11:45.620 high side people out of the 138 or so that showed up. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. I know we talked a

00:11:52.820 little bit over the phone about this, uh, before we even did the interview. Cause I, of course was

00:11:57.080 one of the first people that want to call you and I want to hear all about this. And I know they treat

00:12:02.380 this probably very similar to they do in, in any other high intensity training organization, you

00:12:07.960 know, call it, call it the seals, call it whatever. But they, they basically want, they want to weed out

00:12:12.660 the week quickly. And that from talking to you, the first 24 hours was, that was the goal of the first

00:12:18.600 24 hours. Correct. That's what it was. I mean, it was all marching. It was misery. They had a couple

00:12:24.000 of stops along the way and they gave opportunity guys opportunity to ring the bell. The bell was a,

00:12:29.120 it was actually in the shape of a Spartan helmet. It was really cool except for it represented you

00:12:33.840 quitting, which was not cool. And, uh, we did have some guys drop out fairly early in the event just

00:12:40.340 because of the difficulty level of the hikes and the stuff that we were carrying and the duration of

00:12:45.440 doing it. I remember at one point where I didn't think it could get any worse. It actually started

00:12:49.520 raining on us. Fortunately, we're under the canopy in the forest and it didn't get too much to us,

00:12:53.860 but it was raining and that made it difficult. And the goal was yes, to get people to drop out

00:12:59.300 when we got done with our road march, which I think estimates said about 31 to 33 miles in that,

00:13:05.720 in that timeframe, we, we were allowed to go to sleep. We had two hours of sleep that morning

00:13:11.000 and we were woken up by Joe himself. And he said, I want a hundred burpees. That's how he woke us up.

00:13:17.880 And so we get up and we started doing our burpees. We get 20, 25, uh, burpees. And he says, nope,

00:13:22.440 you're not doing them together. Do them together. Start over. So we start over and then we get

00:13:26.960 through another 15, 20. He says, nope, you're not going all the way down. Start over. And we ended up

00:13:32.040 getting in the, the hundred burpees, which actually probably was more like 160 burpees. And at that

00:13:36.860 point, man, Larry, that was like my breaking point. Like I, I was telling you, it was, it's scary

00:13:41.680 looking back on it now, how close I was to actually ringing that bell. But fortunately I didn't.

00:13:47.160 Yeah. So that's, that's what I really want to dive into because you and I, we've talked about this here

00:13:52.420 and there. And after that first 24 hours, you, you and the entire group were given what sounded like

00:13:59.560 a pretty appealing ultimatum, you know, something at that point in time where two hours of sleep,

00:14:05.840 you just, you just hiked 30 something miles. You know, you've been carrying a kayak with water in

00:14:10.740 it. You've got a ruck on, you're carrying these PVC pipes with, with cement or whatever else is in

00:14:17.280 there. Guys are quitting after the burpees. You told me that the guys were throwing up and then all

00:14:22.740 of a sudden there's this pause, right? And there's an opportunity. Well, I'll let you tell the story,

00:14:27.220 but there's an opportunity there to make one decision or the other. Yeah. Yeah. So Joe says,

00:14:32.320 he literally says, do you guys want to roll the dice? And I'm thinking to myself, I don't want to

00:14:37.260 roll the dice. Like I'm done here. And everybody's like, yeah, yeah, we want to roll the dice. He's

00:14:41.540 like, all right, here's what we're going to do. If you're done, we're 24 hours into this thing. If

00:14:45.780 you're done, you go over there, you ring that bell, you let everybody know you're done. No hard

00:14:51.500 feelings. Nobody's going to think less of you. You made it 24 hours. Hopefully you came out here,

00:14:56.240 you learned something new about yourself and you got what you needed to get out of this event.

00:15:00.740 And you have that opportunity right now. If you take that opportunity, go ahead and do that.

00:15:05.960 And if not, then what you're agreeing to do at this point is you're committing to 60 hours.

00:15:13.400 Because if you go past this point without ringing that bell and down the road, you feel like you

00:15:18.260 want to ring that bell and you actually do it, then everybody here does not finish the race and you

00:15:25.440 all go home. So that was the ultimatum quit now or commit to 60 hours and potentially let the rest of

00:15:33.480 your team, the other hundred or so plus athletes at that point, uh, let them down. And I wanted to

00:15:40.540 quit, but I didn't, I didn't quit. I said, you know what? As uncomfortable as I am now, I was ready to

00:15:46.480 vomit from all those burpees. I'm going to do this. I committed to doing 60 hours I'm in and they lost,

00:15:51.620 we lost a handful of guys and the rest decided to commit. I want to pause there for a second,

00:15:56.480 because this is where I think, number one, I'm extremely curious because I want to dive into

00:16:01.280 this, but I know your listeners really want to dive into this. Take us to that moment. What is going

00:16:06.660 through your mind? I know there's, you know, obviously that's the surface stuff. I don't want

00:16:10.460 to quit. There's a lot of people that are, are looking to me. Plus I'm, I'm a leader in order of man,

00:16:15.780 but what is going through your mind? I mean, you're, you're literally probably an airline flight

00:16:21.080 away from your family who I'm sure you miss. You've, you've got a newborn, your fourth,

00:16:25.580 fourth baby who's waiting for you at home. You've gotten two hours of sleep, all this craziness that

00:16:30.380 you've gone through. Like, what is the tipping point for you? What in your mentality is like,

00:16:35.260 yes, I'm just going to, I'm going to do this. What does that look like for you?

00:16:38.980 Yeah. So I remember, and I told my wife this when I came home, I remember getting to this point

00:16:43.680 around that time thinking, Ryan, what the hell are you doing here? Why are you out here?

00:16:49.800 If you know what's important. And for me, it's family. It always has been family. I know it's

00:16:54.240 for you. I'm looking at, I'm actually looking at your Skype picture right now and you've got your

00:16:58.260 boys right there. I know how important that is to you. And I've always known that's important to me.

00:17:02.580 And I thought to myself, man, are you really fulfilling your mission as a father right now?

00:17:07.760 Like you, you need to be at home with your boys and your, and your girl and your wife,

00:17:12.380 and you need to be with your family. And then I got thinking somewhere in the back of my head.

00:17:16.940 And this kind of makes me emotional a little bit is that, um, what I'm doing right now at that moment

00:17:23.200 in time, what was a family thing? Because I'm teaching my kids that Micklers, that we do hard

00:17:30.180 things that we don't back down when life gets tough. We don't back down when there's trials or

00:17:36.580 adversity or hardship. We keep going. And right before the event started, my wife sent me a text

00:17:44.280 and it was a picture of her and my four kids, my three boys and my little girl. And they were holding

00:17:49.880 a sign and it said, go daddy, you know, Spartan gogi 60. And I thought to myself, like, this is a family

00:17:57.440 matter at this point, because my kids need to know that when we commit to something, we do it.

00:18:03.220 And how horrible would it have been for me to come home and say to them, sorry, guys,

00:18:10.220 I only got 24 or I only got 48 of the hours of the 60 hours that I promised you. And I could look

00:18:17.520 in their face and I can see that that wasn't what they were expecting of me. And they needed me to

00:18:23.100 finish the 60 hours. And that was like the point of no return where it was like, I'm miserable.

00:18:28.260 I'm uncomfortable. I'm tired. My feet are just destroyed at this point. I'm, I'm, I'm feeling

00:18:35.760 like I'm going to puke from all these burpees. It's hot out here. It was like 85, 90 degrees,

00:18:40.600 but I wasn't going to quit. Right. And I talked to some of the guys that I went with, uh, who,

00:18:46.480 who happened to finish the race with me as well. And I said, you know, after the race was over,

00:18:50.960 I said, you know, I, I think I could have went another 12 hours. And one of the guys,

00:18:55.980 his name is Justin. He's a, he's a friend of mine, part of the iron council. He says,

00:18:59.100 the reason that you feel like that is because you've already passed the point,

00:19:02.400 that pivotal moment where you decided. And when you decide, then you can take on more than you

00:19:09.240 ever thought possible. And you've already crossed that point. So we could go another three, four,

00:19:13.900 five days until literally our body shut down before we would ever consider giving up. And I think he was

00:19:19.040 right on point with that. That's a pivotal moment. And man, I'm, I'm so glad you got deep on that

00:19:24.860 because I think we, as men, you know, whether we're married, you know, fathers in particular,

00:19:29.560 we're doing things for our family. And I can, I mean, I'm definitely there with you because if I

00:19:34.360 think about a moment like that, where I'm like, man, here I am, I'm away. You know, my, my son is,

00:19:38.820 I, my, my youngest son is the same as your youngest son. It's like, I, there's some guilt in there,

00:19:43.660 but at the same time, it's like the coolest things that we can do as men, the coolest things that we can

00:19:50.500 do as fathers is teach our kids by example. And at that point in time, giving up would have been

00:19:58.120 disastrous. You know, it would have been, it would have cost you way more and your family way more

00:20:04.900 giving up when you only had 36 more hours. I say only, but 36 more hours to go. I mean, because

00:20:11.780 this is, this is something you're going to be Ryan, you know, 80, 85 years old, a hundred years old,

00:20:16.940 whatever you're going to live to, you're always going to remember those 60 hours and your family

00:20:20.840 will too. And what an amazing lesson. And so what I want to dive into now is.

00:20:28.660 Larry, let me say one other thing if I can before, because there's, there's an important thing here

00:20:33.500 that, that actually confirms my thought at the time, which was the guilt, right? My wife's told

00:20:38.780 I'm taking care of our four kids by herself and we've got little one. Anyways, it was difficult

00:20:42.380 and I decided it's a family matter. Um, my wife sent me a text the day after the event and the text

00:20:49.420 said that Brecken, my oldest son has been walking around all day saying, I knew dad could do it. I

00:20:56.760 just knew he could. And how excited and proud he was of me being able to accomplish that. And that

00:21:03.960 reaffirmed to me how important that it was that I actually finished that event.

00:21:08.740 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, family, of course, I mean, like I said, it's, it's one of those lessons

00:21:14.600 that that's a trickle down lesson, you know, that's, that's something that's going to impact

00:21:19.240 him and you for, for a lifetime. And the other thing too, I mean, being an outsider, you know,

00:21:25.080 and obviously not a part of your family, but being a friend of yours, when you told me you were going

00:21:28.300 to do this and I saw a Facebook status update from another person who is involved in, in the agogi

00:21:36.220 and he had tapped out in 24 hours. And to be honest with you, there was never, there was

00:21:42.120 never a doubt in my mind, knowing you the way I know you being friends with you that

00:21:48.280 you would have ever quit. Like once you committed to doing it, I was like, well, that's a done

00:21:51.560 deal. He's going 60 hours. I mean, yeah, I appreciate that. Cause I think you would have

00:21:56.340 probably come back in a box before you would have come back quitting. Yeah. Well that, that

00:22:00.840 was when I left, I said, I'm, they're going to have to pull me out of this event. Like

00:22:04.980 that's the only way I'm leaving there. I'm going to have to injure myself, break my leg,

00:22:09.200 break my arm, fall out from heat, exhaustion, collapse from, you know, being tired, whatever.

00:22:14.480 The only way I'm going to quit this thing is if they literally drag me off of it. Right. And I

00:22:18.880 think that's the mentality that you have to have, but it's not just about the agogi 60. It's about

00:22:23.480 committing to your wife, right? Like I'm all in this thing. I'm going to do everything I can.

00:22:29.360 And the only way I'm tapping out of this marriage is if somebody drags me out or she's done,

00:22:34.800 but I'm never done. It's the same way when it starts with a business, nothing's going to

00:22:40.780 deter me. I am going to do this because I've set out. And what's really sad is you look around

00:22:45.760 in society today and you see people always taking the easy way out and it's okay. Like people patting

00:22:52.260 them on their shoulder and letting them know it's okay that the business that it was hard or

00:22:57.360 that your marriage didn't work out. And I know there's extenuating circumstances, but at the end

00:23:01.220 of the day, did you get the job done or not? And it's not about taking the easy way out. It's about

00:23:06.920 taking the hard road and doing the hard things. That's what makes you a man. And it's what makes

00:23:11.380 you and other people around you successful. Guys, really quickly, I'm excited to introduce you to

00:23:18.280 our first, our very first live event, the Order of Man Uprising. Now this is a three-day retreat in

00:23:23.460 the mountains of Southern Utah. Don't worry. It's not nearly as intense or grueling as what we've

00:23:27.720 been talking about in this podcast with a Spartan Goggi, but it is designed to stretch you. It is

00:23:33.600 designed to test you as a man. My goal is to help you identify what you want out of your life with

00:23:40.160 your relationships and your health and your wealth and yourself, and then give you all of the tools,

00:23:45.220 all of the strategies, all of the resources to actually make that happen in your life. In other words,

00:23:50.260 this is where the rubber meets the road. And we go from talking about some of these concepts to

00:23:54.500 actually doing, implementing these ideas and these strategies in your life. All you have to do is get

00:23:59.760 to Las Vegas. By Thursday, September 15th, our team will take care of the rest. Transportation,

00:24:04.940 lodging, food, instruction, events, swag, everything is all included. You're going to walk away from this

00:24:09.880 event, I promise you, a changed man. You're going to have the confidence and the discipline and the

00:24:14.900 mastery to take your life to the next level. So you can get more details at orderofman.com

00:24:20.980 slash uprising. We have 16 spots left, so get on it quickly. Now, let me tell you more about this

00:24:26.540 Spartan Goggi. I couldn't agree more. And the other thing too, that I think is awesome is that

00:24:32.980 you will always have this reference point. That's one of the things that Joe DeSena talks about on our

00:24:39.000 podcast. And I know he talks about on yours is once you have achieved or have done something that you

00:24:44.500 have never, ever done before, your set point for quitting is now incredibly higher or your

00:24:52.020 tolerance for stress is just incredibly higher because now your reference point for something

00:24:58.060 hard is way higher than it ever was. So yeah, I totally agree with you. And the thing that I think

00:25:07.500 about over 60 hours, 60 hours, what that does to someone physically, what it does to someone

00:25:14.100 mentally and emotionally. And I know that's probably three areas. As I look at someone who

00:25:19.140 probably breaks down during any type of experience like this, it's going to be the physical that breaks

00:25:26.020 down first. And then it's going to be, you know, it's either going to be the mental or the emotional

00:25:30.740 that breaks down next. And then you have that last pillar that's going to break down. So can you

00:25:34.600 kind of take us through what were these levels, what did those levels look like for you as you

00:25:39.080 as you marched through this entire experience? So I want to make like a distinguishing point here

00:25:45.560 because I don't think it's the physical that breaks down first. I think the mind, your mind,

00:25:51.000 and I've, I've referred to it and guys have heard me say this as the natural man. And the natural man

00:25:55.920 is your mind telling you things are painful. So your body is not breaking down, but it's your mind taking

00:26:01.640 the path of least resistance and telling you, Ryan, stop this hurts. And for me, it manifests itself in

00:26:09.700 my feet. I got blisters on top of blisters. I'm looking at my pinky toe right now. It's bruised. I

00:26:15.140 probably will lose the nail on my pinky toe. And, and that's where the pain manifests itself.

00:26:22.020 But once I realized that and thought, okay, yes, my feet hurt, but I'm not going to die. They're just

00:26:26.540 going to be painful for the next week. The mind started to go into different things, different

00:26:31.820 modes that weren't as readily available for the mind, but played the same tricks. Your mind is

00:26:36.520 always playing tricks on you. And it began to tell me things like your family's important. You need to

00:26:41.440 be home with them. We talked about that a little bit. So my mind was playing tricks right there.

00:26:47.340 The emotional component. I mean, everything that the mind could, could conceive and every strategy it

00:26:52.400 could use to get me to quit. Other people are quitting. This is hard. Nobody expects you to

00:26:57.160 finish. It's okay. If you only get 24 hours and all of these little tactics that your mind uses to

00:27:02.020 get you to do easier things, which is probably some sort of a defense mechanism that's been ingrained

00:27:07.500 in dust over tens of thousands of years is what the mind will employ. And you have to figure out a

00:27:12.660 way to say, no, like shut this down. Think about this. You set out for something. I had Tony

00:27:19.800 Sentiment. He's a tactical expert shooting survival, that sort of thing. And he said that

00:27:25.440 when you feel like quitting, whether that's through a business or even going for a morning jog, that

00:27:31.120 you're typically humans are about 40% of what they actually could do. And that held entirely true

00:27:38.140 because at 40%, maybe 33%, that 24 hours mark, I wanted to quit that. He was right on with that point

00:27:46.080 and my body finished. So I was wanting to quit at 40% and I just didn't do it.

00:27:52.720 That's awesome, man. I mean, and I love how you illustrate that because I'd never really thought

00:27:58.920 of it that way. And it's really enlightening to hear that because I've always thought of it as,

00:28:03.600 well, it's your body that's going to break down first. You know, it's the physical aspects that are

00:28:07.260 going to break down first and then it's going to be your mentality and then it's going to be your

00:28:10.800 emotions. But what you've said is actually incredibly true. It's, it's, it's absolutely

00:28:16.760 true because you're right. As you're saying those things, I'm thinking that's absolutely true because

00:28:20.620 even though something physically hurts, my mind is the first thing that wants to go ahead and tell

00:28:25.840 me to throw in the towel. Right. So I, I totally get that. And thanks for, thanks for breaking that

00:28:31.660 down. So let's. Well, and I think there's a point you need to understand as well, like the,

00:28:35.520 the difference between hurt and pain and then injury. Right. And I think that there were some

00:28:40.600 guys out there who were legitimately dealing with some health issues. I mean, we had a guy out there

00:28:45.780 right after the burpees who was violently vomiting, like uncontrollably, not just he was puking because

00:28:51.340 it was a rough workout, but uncontrollably try to get it up. He literally started seizing and he

00:28:56.240 passed out. That's an injury. That's his body shutting down for whatever reason. And so you need to be

00:29:01.800 smart enough. You need to be aware enough. I mean, we're not out to do stupid things just for the

00:29:05.340 sake of it being stupid or hard. So you need to listen to your body and understand what it's

00:29:10.180 really going. And then when I started listening, when I shut it down for a minute and I just started

00:29:13.940 listening and paying attention, I realized, okay, I've got a blister on, on this, the ball of this foot

00:29:19.820 and the pinky toe of this foot. And I can start seeing these aren't injuries. These are just little

00:29:24.240 pain points that I'm going to have to work past. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, because, you know,

00:29:29.300 and I'm glad you kind of broke that down because I mean, that's, that's actually a perfect example

00:29:33.860 of someone who obviously that, that gentleman probably didn't want to quit, but any, no,

00:29:39.120 in fact, he said it when the medic was helping him, he said, I don't want to quit. I don't want

00:29:42.300 to quit. And she's like, too bad, too bad. You're quitting. You're done. Right. And he was, I mean,

00:29:46.360 he was physically done. But yeah, where you've, where you've literally pushed yourself past the

00:29:50.840 brink and it's, you know, you have at that point in time, you have definitely that you, you've definitely

00:29:57.140 won over the mind aspect of it because you are pushing physically beyond the brink. And your mind is

00:30:02.480 the only thing that will really get you to do that. Let's, let's go ahead and dive into a couple

00:30:06.140 other things, a couple other experiences that you had. You know, you told you definitely were

00:30:10.480 descriptive on the first 24 hours, but talking to you on the phone, I know that there were some

00:30:15.400 other experiences in there that when you told me, I was like, Oh my gosh, man, that's, it just keeps,

00:30:20.160 it just keeps getting worse. So can you tell us about a little bit more about some of the things that

00:30:25.600 you were made to do? Yeah, you bet. I can go into some of that. And it, it was funny because one of the

00:30:31.380 cadre, he actually said, don't worry, it's only going to get easier. And everybody kind of laughed

00:30:35.180 that off. But the reality was it kind of, it was kind of true. And the reason was not because the

00:30:39.760 tasks were easier, but because the mind had won over the first 24 hours and it did get a little bit

00:30:45.880 more easy, but we did some survival stuff. One of the things that was really probably the most

00:30:50.380 difficult thing was we had this big hay bale. It must've been, I don't know, four or 500 pounds or so.

00:30:55.260 We were pushing that thing on a mile and a half course through a mud bog that literally mud was

00:31:02.400 waist high. And there was at this point, nine people on a team and we were expected to push

00:31:09.300 this thing through that mud bog. So that was one element. They, they showed us some survival

00:31:15.320 techniques, basic stuff on what type of plants that you could eat, animal, not animals, but insects

00:31:21.900 that you could eat. We, we ate a mealworm earthworm, which the mealworm wasn't bad. The earthworm was

00:31:26.940 horrible. It was disgusting. Uh, we had to do some underwater, basically survival stuff,

00:31:32.580 learning how to float tread water, uh, for, for a stretched out period of time in a pond filled

00:31:37.680 with leeches. I didn't get bit by any leeches, but most of our team did. They came out pretty bloody

00:31:43.060 from getting bit by leeches. Uh, so those were some of the tasks, but the marching was definitely the

00:31:48.840 road marches under ruck and some of the tasks that hand that way. We're definitely the physically the

00:31:53.420 most exhausting, man. That's just, I mean, it's just, as you're taking us through this, like I'm

00:31:58.240 trying to visualize all this and I mean, do you have, let me ask this real quick. Do you have any

00:32:03.280 sense of time, how much time you have left in this or is that all up for gas? Yeah, no, I, I actually,

00:32:09.760 you know, one of the things that I did is I took a journal with me and I kept it in a Ziploc bag

00:32:15.180 because I knew there was going to be moments where we got wet and I, maybe I'll make this

00:32:18.580 available in the show notes and show you guys some pictures of this, but I actually documented

00:32:22.540 the entire race from when we started, what we were doing to the mileage, to when people quit.

00:32:29.520 I put little diagrams and pictures in there, had all the timestamps. So I've got a pretty good idea of

00:32:36.280 what this looks like. Um, it was, it was moving around those stations for,

00:32:41.860 uh, we were probably doing that for anywhere from 12 to 15 hours of that. The first night we,

00:32:48.040 the first rest that we got was probably hour 24. The next rest that we got, we got two hours there.

00:32:54.880 And then the next rest we got was somewhere around hour 46, 47. We got two hours there and that was

00:33:00.440 the entire rest. So I had a pretty good idea of the time because of the journaling that I did that

00:33:06.160 helped me keep my mind clear. And then I knew I wanted to come home and share this experience with my

00:33:10.360 kids. So I was able to show them that and recall some of the details of the event because I knew

00:33:14.580 it'd be hard to do it with that, too hard to do it without that document that I made.

00:33:19.000 Dude, that journal would be like gold because I mean, like there's, there are some things that

00:33:23.600 I'm sure that probably pretty raw things that are probably in there that, um, I mean that really

00:33:28.940 paint a picture of like, because I'm sure there's only so many words and there's so much time that we

00:33:32.780 could go into this, but having a glimpse of that journal, you're like, okay, now I,

00:33:36.420 now I really understand. I mean, it paints a, paints a picture that I can truly understand.

00:33:41.020 Well, and it's important. I mean, it's, I try to journal as often as I can anyways,

00:33:45.480 but I really want to have something available for future reference for me, but also my kids where

00:33:51.260 they can say, look what dad went through. Look what he did. Look how he overcame this. Look,

00:33:56.960 he's human. He had these horrible feelings of wanting to quit, but he didn't do it. And I'm like

00:34:02.360 him and I can overcome the things when I want to quit. I wanted to make that stuff available.

00:34:06.400 So it, this event was not about me. I mean, partly I wanted to test myself, but I tried to

00:34:11.840 make it bigger than just me. I wanted it for my kids and my family. I wanted it for the men that

00:34:16.760 listened to order of man. And that's why I did the journal. That's awesome. Yeah. And I'm glad

00:34:21.620 you're talking about, um, quitting. I mean, I know we kind of touched upon this in the beginning,

00:34:26.000 but I want to dive into this just a little more because, um, I think you painted a good picture of

00:34:32.040 why you weren't going to quit. We had a guest on the good dad project. It was probably a couple

00:34:37.300 of months ago, but it was professional UFC fighter, Jim Miller. And the, the, the overall

00:34:41.600 theme of that, of that podcast reminded me a lot of what we're talking today. And he said this

00:34:46.560 statement over and over in our, in our interview. And it was, I never want my opponent's hand raised

00:34:53.140 at the end of a fight. When I knew I had a little bit more left in my gas tank.

00:34:57.420 Like one of the, yeah. Yeah. And one of the things that you and I talked about before

00:35:01.520 we even started this interview was now that you're done with this thing, right. And now that you have

00:35:07.220 this new set point and you've raised the bar on, on, you know, ever quitting, what would you say to a

00:35:13.160 man in any man listening to this podcast when it comes to regret, when it comes to throwing in the

00:35:19.960 towel, when you have a little bit more left in the gas tank, what would you say to a guy like that,

00:35:24.560 who, you know, now we have so much, I mean, so much in our reserves. So what would you say to a man

00:35:30.280 like that?

00:35:31.320 It's a really hard question. And it's a hard question because you don't know what you have

00:35:35.780 in the reserves at the moment in which you are like, we don't have a gas tank that says you have

00:35:40.760 25% more energy left. That would be nice if we did, but we don't. So you don't really know.

00:35:47.240 And that makes it difficult because you think that you've given it your all. And the only time that

00:35:52.220 you can realize if you have or have not is after the fact. And so you really have to have a lot of

00:35:59.140 forward thinking. And this is what helped me get through. I didn't want to get to the end of the

00:36:04.240 event and look around and see 80, 90, a hundred, however many participants finish. And then sitting

00:36:11.380 there feeling awkward, knowing that I could have done it. And I didn't want to do that. So I think

00:36:17.780 it's about having some just forward thought, thinking about what the future hold, what's the

00:36:21.960 what's the future actually look like? And then visualizing what is this going to look like when

00:36:26.860 I get to finish? What is this going to look like when somebody hands me the medal that I earned or

00:36:33.080 that I get to wear around the shirt that I earned? What is that actually going to look like when you

00:36:37.380 can visualize that? I think you can get through a lot more. I know it's certainly helped me push past

00:36:43.020 what I believe to be my limitations at the moment that I was going through it. But in all reality,

00:36:49.100 they weren't. So let me let me recap that real quick. So I want to make sure your listeners really

00:36:53.540 got that because I just got something out of that, which is I think we in the moment, we meaning,

00:36:59.420 you know, man, woman, it doesn't matter. You know, we as individuals, when we are in the heat of

00:37:05.360 something, whether that's in our marriage, whether that's in our business, whether that's in a physical

00:37:09.620 event of some kind. And we're at that point where like, I just can't go anymore. I have to quit. I,

00:37:14.920 you know, I can't take the pain. I can't take the hurt. I just can't go on. I need to quit. So the

00:37:19.980 mindset right then and there is like, I need to quit because of how I feel right now, like right,

00:37:25.140 right now. And they don't take that productive pause like you did during this experience. You're

00:37:29.580 like, wait a second. Yes, I feel like quitting right now. However, what is this going to look like

00:37:34.240 when I finish? And immediately, even as I say that, even on this interview right now,

00:37:38.860 there's a sense of calm that just comes over me of like, wait a second. Yes, I want to give up. Yes,

00:37:43.940 this is hard. Yes, this really sucks. But if I decide to stick this out, do a couple more things

00:37:49.280 right, maybe concentrate on the next micro goal, get to the end of this thing, what is that going to

00:37:54.120 look like? And immediately start focusing on that positive outcome. It makes quitting,

00:37:59.340 it minimizes the temptation to quit. And we've all experienced moments in our lives. You've done

00:38:06.100 it. I've done it where we've just quit too early and we know what that regret feels like. I know

00:38:11.060 what it's like to not finish something and then feel horrible about it after the fact. And if you

00:38:18.020 can draw upon that and whatever tactic, trick or whatever you need to employ, you need to because

00:38:24.580 your mind is working against you in a lot of cases and you need to be able to counter it. So whether

00:38:29.660 that's positive thinking, whether it's, hey, I don't want to feel like shit after this event is over,

00:38:34.460 you need to employ that stuff because it's going to take all that you have to get through whatever

00:38:38.420 life has to throw at you. That is very true, man. That is very true. So dude, I mean, I know we did a

00:38:45.260 deep dive into this and I mean, you've painted an amazing picture of physically, mentally,

00:38:51.160 emotionally, what you went through, the mentality, what you actually had to do to get through this

00:38:56.240 thing. Let me ask this final question, which is given the chance, would you do this again?

00:39:04.640 That's a question that a lot of people have asked me. And my answer, if I'm being truthful,

00:39:10.700 is no. But it's not because I didn't enjoy it. I did. But I want to experience something new.

00:39:18.660 Right. Like, I've got this. I did that. So if you said, hey, you're going to do another 60 hour

00:39:23.120 event, my knee jerk reaction is, why? I already did that. Right. Now, Spartan, I better be careful

00:39:28.060 because if Joe's listening to this, he's going to call me out. But if Spartan says, we're doing the

00:39:32.060 Agogi 100. OK, well, maybe there's something that I need to try that I haven't quite figured out yet or

00:39:38.720 something that can push me a little bit further. But I really want to experience new things. It's not for

00:39:44.040 me. It's not about the event itself that was so motivating for me that looking back on it now,

00:39:49.680 I was so excited about it wasn't about the event. It was about becoming a better man.

00:39:54.240 It was becoming a better version of myself. And to do the same thing over again that I already did

00:39:59.860 would not help me accomplish that. But something new would. And so I'm going to be on the lookout

00:40:05.200 for something else, something new that'll test and push me, whether it's physically, mentally or

00:40:10.060 emotionally. That's awesome, man. And I agree with that because, I mean, you know,

00:40:15.940 going through something like you did, I mean, number one, there isn't necessarily a temptation

00:40:20.420 to go back to that. But I can definitely relate to, OK, I've done that. You know, now it's the same

00:40:26.800 concept of like if you're a marathon runner, you know, now you've run an ultra marathon. It's like

00:40:33.120 now these you're running the 26.2. It's not it's not that big of a deal. If you've done one,

00:40:37.960 you've kind of you know, you've done them all. If you if you've upped the ante every every single

00:40:41.620 time to something bigger or better. But so, man, thank you very much. I mean, I was looking so

00:40:48.040 forward to this interview. I know your your listeners were looking so forward to this interview.

00:40:52.720 And man, you just you just really gave us some pearls on on everything that you went through,

00:40:56.920 man. Thank you very much. That's yeah, you bet. You know, I was going to tell you one other

00:41:00.360 thing, Larry, and this is something I've been thinking about because some people have brought up

00:41:04.200 this question to me and they said, you know, Ryan, what was the hardest part? What was the very

00:41:08.460 hardest thing that you had to do? And it wasn't pushing hay bales and it wasn't eating a worm or

00:41:13.840 swimming with leeches. It wasn't that kind of stuff or even the 30 mile march. It wasn't that

00:41:17.880 the hardest part for me was not knowing what was next because they didn't tell you. It wasn't like,

00:41:25.500 OK, we're going to march 15 miles and then we're going to get to here and then we're going to march

00:41:29.080 here and this is five miles and then you're going to swim for a mile. It wasn't like that.

00:41:33.440 It was we're going to do this until we're done and then we're going to do something else.

00:41:37.240 And then not knowing is very difficult. And it got me thinking about life in general. And this is a

00:41:41.780 perfect correlation to life. We never know what's going to happen. We don't know. Oh,

00:41:47.420 like what does tomorrow hold? What does the next hour hold? How long am I going to have to

00:41:52.300 suffer through a bankruptcy? How long am I going to have to suffer through losing a loved one? How long

00:41:58.720 am I going to have to suffer through a marriage that's failing? We don't know that stuff. And

00:42:03.820 that's what makes it so difficult. And I think you've just got to be ready for the long haul and

00:42:10.120 the decisions that you make in life should be made with a long term vision. Like I'm going to be doing

00:42:16.940 this for the rest of my life because I know it's the right thing to do and then letting the chips fall

00:42:22.540 where they may. And that was the biggest thing for me is if I had to walk 100 miles, I would have

00:42:27.820 done that because I got to the point where I knew this was the right thing to do and I'm going to

00:42:33.180 put it all out there and I'm going to let the chips fall where they may. I think we as men and women,

00:42:39.020 anybody, like you said earlier, focus too much on the result and don't focus enough on the consistent

00:42:46.280 actions and then just letting the results take care of themselves. So that's kind of what I wanted

00:42:50.740 to part with because that was actually pretty enlightening for me as I went through the last 60

00:42:54.320 hours through this event. I don't know if you could have wrapped up the interview or the final

00:42:59.140 thought probably better than that because I think the overall theme was exactly that, which is what

00:43:04.740 you, what you explained throughout the entire interview, throughout the entire experiencing.

00:43:09.580 And then, yeah, I mean, it's one of the six basic needs that we have in life, man, is uncertainty,

00:43:15.740 but it's also can be our Achilles heel, you know, because that's, that's where we throw on the towel

00:43:21.000 because we're like, man, how much longer is this going to go on? If I only knew, maybe I'd keep

00:43:24.480 going, but, but you're right. Having the mentality of like, well, it's going to endure for as long as

00:43:30.120 it's going to endure and I'm just going to keep pushing through no matter what. Exactly. Yeah,

00:43:34.380 man. So, all right. So where can all of your listeners find the show notes for this? I'm dying

00:43:39.860 to see some sort of copy or some sort of something with this journal. Yeah, you bet. Where can we find

00:43:45.400 all that? I, you go to order a man.com. I don't know the exact link it's going to be at right now,

00:43:50.800 but it will be available. I'll make it available for you. I'll put some of my journal pages on there.

00:43:56.240 I'll give you my recaps, my lessons, and you'll definitely want to check it out. And I'll give

00:44:02.120 you a link to the Agogi for the winter version if you guys are interested in doing that as well. So

00:44:07.680 if you're interested in participating in it, we'll let you know how to get there. Awesome, man. Well,

00:44:12.380 dude, thanks again for sharing all the thoughts. Um, and thanks for sharing the experiencing and

00:44:17.060 most importantly, man, the lessons, the lessons are just absolutely epic. All right, Larry, I

00:44:22.080 appreciate you. Thanks for taking time out of your day to, to fulfill a request to some of the guys

00:44:26.720 that wanted to hear about this. And, and I would just part guys too. If you haven't checked out Larry

00:44:30.880 show, the good dad project, make sure you check out his podcast. Amazing thing, uh, that he's doing

00:44:36.140 for fathers. Make sure you check out his show. It's really going to help you be a better dad.

00:44:40.280 Thanks, man. I appreciate it.

00:44:42.960 There you have it guys, the Spartan Agogi. I can honestly tell you that I feel like a changed man.

00:44:47.460 It's only been a week, but I have more motivation. I have more ambition. My goals are loftier and my

00:44:53.440 ability, most importantly, to achieve those goals are that much better. So I encourage each and every

00:44:59.000 one of you guys to participate in an event like this. It doesn't have to be a 60 hour endurance event,

00:45:03.940 but it should be something to test you physically and emotionally and mentally. You will not be

00:45:10.460 disappointed with the man that you become. Now, in the meantime, also remember our inaugural

00:45:14.540 Order of Man Uprising, September 15th through the 18th, 2016. I do expect this event to sell out.

00:45:21.360 We're going to be taking three days in a cabin I leased out for us. And really, again, we're going

00:45:25.340 to give you all the tools and the resources to take your life to the next level. Go to

00:45:29.320 orderofman.com slash uprising for all of the details. Guys, I look forward to talking with

00:45:34.680 you next week, but until then, take action and become the man you were meant to be.

00:45:39.400 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. If you're ready to take charge of your

00:45:43.660 life and be more of the man you were meant to be, we invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

00:45:49.480 Thank you.

Order of Man - June 28, 2016

OoM 067： Surviving a 60-Hour Endurance Event with Ryan Michler

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