OoM 068： Raising Men with Navy SEAL, Eric Davis
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Summary
Eric Davis is a former Navy SEAL and author of Raising Men: Lessons Navy SEALs Learned from Their Training and Taught to Their Sons. In this episode, he talks about what it means to be a man who protects, provides, and presides in his life.
Transcript
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I don't know about you, but I have spent many nights staying up contemplating the job I'm doing
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as my children's father. I'm constantly wondering if I'm doing the right things, if I'm leading when
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I need to, allowing them to lead when it's best, and teaching them the lessons they'll need to be
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successful. My guest today, retired Navy SEAL Eric Davis, helps me answer those questions and many
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more as he talks about his new book, Raising Men. You're a man of action. You live life to the
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fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back
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up one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.
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This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become at the end of the day,
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and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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Men, what's going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and founder of Order
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of Man. I'm glad you're back with us here today, and if you're new to the show, welcome. Now,
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if you don't already know this, you should by now. This is a show about all things manly,
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so we talk about health and building wealth, to becoming a better protector, a leader. In other
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words, this is the one-stop shop to learn more about how to become the man that you were meant
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to be, the man that you want to be. Now, we're back from a long Independence Day weekend, and I hope all
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of my American brothers had a great weekend. I hope you're able to spend some time with those you care
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about most, and most importantly, I hope you're able to spend a little time, at a minimum, contemplating
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the sacrifices of our founding fathers to create this amazing nation. These were men who were willing to
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sacrifice, literally, guys, everything for a noble cause, and men that I certainly look to as
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examples of what it means to be a man who protects, provides, and presides in his life. Now, with all
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that said, I want to talk with you about an incredible show that we have lined up for you
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today. If you're a dad, and even if you're not, you're going to learn so much from this show about
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not only how to raise men, but how to be a better one yourself. So, make sure you check out the show
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notes, which you can find at orderofmen.com slash 068. And also, be sure this week, guys,
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to join in our closed men's Facebook group. We're going to be having deeper conversations
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on the topic of raising men, and you can join at facebook.com slash groups slash orderofmen.
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Now, let me introduce you to my guest today. He is a retired Navy SEAL. His name is Eric Davis,
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and again, he has served our country as a Navy SEAL. He's a decorated veteran in the global war on terror.
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He's been recognized as one of the premier sniper instructors in the U.S. military,
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and has served as a master training specialist at the SEAL sniper schools in Coronado, California.
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In fact, he trained both Chris Kyle and Marcus Latrella snipers. He's an expert of technical
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and physical surveillance and was part of an elite group hand-selected to perform intelligence
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collection in denied areas around the world. He talks briefly about that in our interview today.
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He's also spent years developing, writing, and executing a curriculum for the SEAL teams.
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And by leveraging his expertise in the development of systems, structures, processes,
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practices, and practices, Eric was instrumental in significantly reducing the failure rate
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of Naval Special Warfare's internationally recognized sniper course. Since departing from
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the SEAL teams, Eric has worked in corporate performance, sales, and leadership training,
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bringing an unprecedented amount of innovation, efficiency, and structure to the domain of
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business and personal performance. He is also the author of Raising Men, Lessons Navy SEALs
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Learned from Their Training and Taught to Their Sons, which he is here to talk with us about today.
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Eric, what's going on, man? Thanks for joining me on the show today.
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Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me on, Ryan.
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So this is going to be a good conversation. You just had a book release, Raising Men,
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and I'm excited to dig into this, especially because I have four kids, three boys, one girl.
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So I know the information you're going to share with me is just going to be just as helpful to
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All right. Yeah. That's a lot of boys hanging around there.
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It is. Yep. We outnumber the girls over here for sure. So we have a good time and we keep mom
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and sister busy, but we also can protect them, which is cool because I like having the boys
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because if I'm not around, I know that as they get older, they'll be able to protect the girls
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for me. Yeah, there you go. Yep. They're good. They're good like that.
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So tell me a little bit about the premise behind the book. Why is the work you're doing? Obviously,
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you know, you're a Navy SEAL and so you've got that background. Why delve into the conversation
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you're having now about raising kids, specifically boys?
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Well, it started maybe eight, nine years ago. I was on my way out overseas, actually on a top
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secret kind of intelligence type mission. And I was flying through the airport on the East Coast
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and it was my daughter's birthday. It was just before Thanksgiving and Christmas. And I was writing
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in my journal, just sitting there kind of lamenting like, hey, daughter's birthday, probably not going
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to call her, probably won't see her for Christmas, probably won't even talk to her on Thanksgiving.
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And I was just thinking, man, what a cruddy kind of dad situation to be in. But then as I was kind
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of looking around the airport, looking at all the people and, you know, starting to get inspired about
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the mission I was going on, it hit me. I was like, man, I'm actually going out ahead and making this
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world a safer place for her. And, you know, the life that we do have together when I'm at home has
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been really good. We've done a lot of actions type stuff, had fun together. And then I started feeling
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a lot better about it. And I thought, man, kind of an extreme situation I'm in being a SEAL, being a
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father. But the principles I'd been learning in SEAL training and as a sniper instructor, I'd really
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applied to my older two kids a whole bunch. And I just started thinking about that. And then I thought,
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man, I think this would be valuable to other people. Because again, it's kind of such an extreme
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circumstance that this is something I need to share with them. And then, you know, how books can go
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years later? Somebody picked it up and St. Martin's Press said, yeah, let's do this.
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Really? Yeah, very cool. You know, I don't have any understanding of what it's like to serve
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overseas with kids. And I went to Iraq in 2005, 2006. I was in Ramadi. And I looked around at some
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of the guys that had children. I didn't have children at the time. And I don't know how they
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do it. I mean, how do you describe and explain that to your daughter in this case? What is that
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conversation like? Or was she too young to really know what was going on at the time?
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No, my older two kids were plenty old. They're, you know, right now 23 and 20. And then I've got...
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Yeah, I've got a younger set, 12 and 9. Those two, they're oblivious to it. The older two,
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they for sure knew. I mean, after 9-11, I went to Afghanistan. They are very present to it.
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As far as on my end, once I stepped out the door, I'd always get stressed right before a trip
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because I'd have to leave my family. I always felt bad. I felt guilty. But then I stepped out
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the door and it was kind of game on. And though I would call home, you know, except for during that
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phone call, they'd really be out of my mind to tell you the truth because I was focused on what
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I was doing. You know, every once in a while, there'd be something kind of a little hairy or
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dangerous. And I'd think, oh, crud, this is going to be a crappy way to go. But it was just one of
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those things I just accepted as a possibility and just never really gave it any more thought.
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Did you tell them about the dangers that you were facing? I mean, how realistic
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were you in your conversations about what you were doing?
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Everything we do is, you know, secretive. So I never filled them in on anything like that.
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For the most part, I'd explain to them, you know, dad goes on deployments for the, you know,
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we really don't do much. We're just sitting there at the ready. And then even when I did deploy with
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the specific intent to be operational, I told them the same thing, like, hey, we're just going over
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there to be ready. So I never, I didn't want to put them through any of that. And that was a luxury I
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had. You know, a lot of guys, when they deploy and everybody knows they're going straight into
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a war zone, there's really no way they can, you know, tell them that. A small unit like a SEAL
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team or actually a SEAL platoon, you can tell them like, hey, we're just on standby here in case
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something happens. But, you know, bigger units, Marine units, Army units, they're not going to have
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that luxury. They're usually like, hey, we're going into the thing, the thick of it all.
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Right. Right. Yeah. No, that makes sense. I know it would be a difficult conversation and one
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that fortunately I never had to have. How is your, your background is actually somewhat similar to
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mine. You talk about not having a father figure growing up as, as you were a kid. I mean, how has
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that transformed and shaped the way that you are now parenting your children? Yeah. So my dad,
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he was, you know, six foot three, black hair, olive skin. I got all the good genetics, five foot nine,
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red hair, freckles, you know, kind of deal. He was the bishop of our church. He was the,
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a captain in the, our County Sheriff department, you know, he was everything to me. And I really
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looked up to him and that's all I ever wanted to do is be just like him. But about 15, 16, he got,
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he had diabetes and then he got struck with clinical depression, which is basically a chemical imbalance
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in the brain. So there, I was just old enough, right. To recognize that I still needed him,
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that I wasn't ready to be without, but I was, I was too young to be on my own and just do it alone.
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You know, having him kind of, I want to say taper off as a father figure for me is probably the best
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way to describe it. And being in that situation, I just became a, just a practitioner of self-help
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and development. I, you know, I read every single book there was to watch any video, anything I can
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find, I was in search of a mentor. So it really set me up for every possible coaching situation I
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could be in that I'd leverage later as a parent. And then, you know, that stuff typically doesn't work,
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you know, a lot of it's kind of, you know, build and sold just for the perception of improvement.
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So I started to really struggle with it. And that's actually what put me into the SEAL teams. I,
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I was very young and, and, you know, about 17 years old thinking, man, this is none of this is
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working. I'm on a, I'm on a downhill spiral. So I better go, you know, do the natural thing and
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become a SEAL. So did you, I mean, was that always your vision or did you just have, have this idea
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that I'm going to join the Navy and then it progressed? Or did you always from that moment want to be a
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SEAL? No, I actually started off, I was going to be an army airborne Ranger. And then, uh, luckily
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Charlie Sheen made that movie Navy SEALs in the nineties. And I was, I was awoken to the idea that
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there was a special operations or special forces in the ocean. And as soon as I was a surfer, I still
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am a surfer. As soon as I learned that I was like, okay, I gotta, I gotta make the switch and head over
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that way. Right. Okay. Yeah. But I was doing the military thing because all I ever, and this is a
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chapter in the book where I talk about lead from the front and how important it is to live the life
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that you want your son or your, or your daughter to live and lead by example because, and here's
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why. So even though my dad got sick and started to become less and less of a father figure for me,
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his life that he had lived was what won the day. It was what I still continued to pursue and chase
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even after he wasn't in my life on a regular basis. And my grandfather was an FBI agent under,
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uh, under Hoover. And that kind of history is what drew me through it all. So that that's all I was
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doing was preparing for a life in law enforcement, which I did not end up going into, but I, you know,
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I'd say I stayed on that path for a while. Yeah, no. And, and definitely continuing on that trend of
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serving, serving the nation for sure. And I want to talk more about that before I do. So you got into
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the seals and then from the minute that you were there, were you trained as a sniper? Is that,
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how did that progress? Because I know that you trained guys like Chris Kyle, Marcus Luttrell.
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And so tell me a little bit about how that all unfolded.
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Yeah. So I spent 10 years in the seal teams and five of those years were spent as a sniper
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instructor. So I went in and I did a platoon, uh, did 18, 20 plus, you know, shipboardings,
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you know, black hoods, pirating ships coming out of Iraq, came home from deployment. September 11th,
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I was getting out of the Navy actually, and starting to interview up at LAPD. I was following that path.
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And then September 11th happened. And when I was on leave, so, you know, how the Navy does things is
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they told me, Hey, if you reenlist, we'll send you overseas to Afghanistan and let you reenlist over
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there. Uh, you know, get tax-free bonus, but most importantly, we'll send you to Afghanistan. So,
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you know, of course I was like, yes, send me over there. I'm not going to leave right now.
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Uh, so I did that and I went over for 90 days as an advisor, um, helping the platoons, uh,
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de-conflict fires and do a variety of things. So when I came home, I was now on a,
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on a new contract. So I went to a sniper cell. I'd already been to sniper school and deployed as a sniper.
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And when I was there, I had the opportunity to train with some Olympic gold medalist,
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a gentleman named Lanny Basham. He really changed my world in regards to training.
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And it was just the first time in my life that I really sunk in. You know, I studied all the time.
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I practiced presentations. I practiced psychology, everything I could to become a better trainer.
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And that's how I ended up being there for five years. Usually you're instructor for two or three
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years, but myself, Brandon Webb, a few other, uh, sniper cadre really took to it. And they had asked
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myself and Brandon Webb to stick around longer, uh, than what was normal because we were really
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Very cool. Yeah. So that's a testament to your ability to go above and beyond. It sounds like
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what was required and really try to train even outside of sniper school to make it a little bit
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better for you. It sounds like, yeah, you know, it was really the feedback from the guys, you know,
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the, the, the guys I was teaching, you know, they're the positive feedback, you know, Hey,
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you know, master chief to keep this guy around, listen to this guy. Hey, Eric, you, you helped me
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so much. Uh, you know, Marcus Luttrell wrote his book, lone survivor. And he put myself in Brandon
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Webb. He's like, you know, an amazing sniper instructor or whatever, you know, he's really positive
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term terms. And I just fed off of it. I loved it. I love the idea that I was helping people
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and they were recognizing it and letting me know. And I was hooked. I was, I've been hooked
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on human performance sense. Very cool. So let's dig into this a little bit, because I think this
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translates perfectly now to have a conversation about how does your time in the service and
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specifically as an instructor, then translate over into now being a father in your book, Raising Men.
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You know, a lot of guys now are, are struggling in a, in a variety of ways. And there's some
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confusion about masculinity and manhood. Uh, you know, it's kind of old school still where they're
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thinking they need to be, you know, fighting all the time and different things like that. But
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nowadays man, nowadays manhood is really about understanding the fundamentals that go into life,
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mastering those things and leading others to do the same. So when I wrote the book, I reflected back
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on my time as both a seal and a sniper instructor. And I basically pulled out the principles, the sayings
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are the quotes that would be repeated throughout a 10 year career. And I said, okay, these are the
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principles that this isn't all of the principles in the book, but it's like the foundational ones.
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And it's a solid, solid start to this journey. So I pulled those principles out, basically told the
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story of how they came about while I was either in seal training or, or a trainer. And then I repurposed
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or, um, related them. Hey, if you're hearing sirens, by the way, that's because I'm in New York city
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and they're, they're just, you know, New York going on behind me. I know. I was thinking we're
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going to need to use some of your training or something like that to handle a situation outside
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with as many sirens as are going on. Yeah, no, I'm out here doing the book launch. So we're keeping
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it real. Like we're, we're rustic out here. No, that's good. Any, any way we can get you. We're
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glad to have you on the show, even if we have to deal with some sirens here and there. Yeah. Yeah.
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Yeah. So anyways, so I pulled those principles out and those are each, each of the chapter,
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each chapter in the book is basically a seal principle. And I just explained how it related in
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training and then I repurposed and demonstrated how we can use that in parenting and in life.
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Yeah, that's pretty cool. I think there's a lot of metaphors. I mean, any situation,
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whether that's a seal or you're a school teacher or whatever that are going to translate perfectly
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over into other areas of life. Are there one or two principles that immediately stand out,
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maybe as foundational principles that men can learn from you and then implement it in their lives as
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they're raising their children? Yeah. One of the biggest things, uh, it's my favorite chapter.
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It's right near the front of the book. It's called, and I already mentioned it a little bit. It's,
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I, it's titled lead from the front, you know, in the mil, you know, and you've probably heard it in
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the military. We hear it in corporations and it's kind of like cliche a little bit, right? I mean,
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some people say lead from the front, but you're like, well, what does that really mean? Um,
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yeah. And it's not applied everywhere, but in parenting, I, I started teaching guys and talking to
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guys, especially prepping for the book. And since I wrote the book and now doing different interviews,
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you know, I, I heard just one too many times somebody say, man, what I'm going to do is just
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sacrifice. I'm going to sacrifice my health. I'm going to sacrifice my happiness. I'm just going
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to buckle down and work really hard because my only job in life is to make sure I make money for
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my kids. And I, I just heard that one too many times. And here's the problem. Life is complex.
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This world is the most competitive marketplace we've ever lived in. It's just going to continuously
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get more competitive. How are we going to teach our kids, lead our kids, lead our friends and family
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to live a good life. If we can't figure out how to do it for ourselves, anybody can make a lot of
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money if they sacrifice their health, right? Anybody can have a six pack and then not have enough money
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to pay the rent or retire. It's, it's the whole person now, especially nowadays. So that chapter has
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been one of my favorites. It's one of my favorites to talk about. And I look forward to
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jumping on the speaking circuit and getting in front of dudes and saying, Hey, it is okay to
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deploy overseas for nine months at a time. It is okay to work hard. It's okay to work out. It's
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okay to spend time with your buddies. It's better to be a good father for one day out of the month
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than to be an absent father 30 days out of the month. Right? So you need to get out there and get
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some and get these things handled and then teach our kids how to do it. And that's been my favorite
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chapter and it is, it's ringing true for the whole book now.
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Yeah. I like that makes a ton of sense because I think there's a lot of people out there who,
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and I've heard this personally where they'll say, you know, I'd really like to work out or I'd really
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like to improve in this area of my life, but I'm too concerned about my kids. Almost like they're
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making it sound like they're making the right decision. But at the end of the day, I think what
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they're end up doing is they use their children as pawns or excuses not to handle and cover other areas
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of their lives. Oh, they absolutely do. Uh, you know, one of the things I, I was a medic,
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I was a corpsman and in, in seal training, I was the class corpsman and it was my job to take care
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of people. And I see this in life and I saw it in seal training is people sometimes how they quit
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is by not taking care of themselves so that they run themselves into the ground. And all they can do
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is hit, you know, go to bed or just quit or they're done because they got hurt. It's a very,
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interesting. Right. It's a subtle form of quitting and it's, it's almost a little bit
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cowardly. So if you're a lot cowardly, yeah, I'm saying it soft because I'm thinking this will be
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the first time for some guys to hear this. So I'm not trying to call them out, but you're right.
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It's a cowardly thing to do, but we all do it or we all for sure. Yeah. We've all done it,
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but yeah, these guys need to take a look at that. You're not doing anybody any favors. You're just
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going to teach your sons or your daughters how to not, how to be miserable there because they're,
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what they're going to do is follow you. They're going to, they're going to follow your example.
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It's important of a whole life. Yeah. No, interesting. I had somebody,
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uh, I made a post about taking care of yourself and how often you should go into the gym and,
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and how often I go into the gym. And somebody made a comment along the lines of,
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you know, you're detracting from your family. You could spend that time with them. Just absolutely
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ridiculous type stuff that some of the people think. So my question when it comes to leading from
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the front is where's the balance between leading from the front and then allowing your kids
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opportunities to lead. And this particularly applies to me where I have, my oldest is eight
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years old and he's getting to the point where I would like him to start making some decisions for
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himself. And how do we do that and manage the lead from the front? Like you're talking about.
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Yeah. So I got a good recent example. Um, so we produce an environment where they can make the
00:19:26.000
right decisions and we, we only put them in the situations where they do make the right situations.
00:19:32.500
And here's my example for that. My nine-year-old daughter, Leah, she decided she wanted to try out
00:19:37.800
for junior lifeguards. We live by the beach, but she decided like just a week before the testing
00:19:43.300
and junior lifeguards, right? You're like, thanks honey. Really? Thanks for the heads up. But junior
00:19:48.200
lifeguard, it's the test isn't, isn't crazy, but it's just long enough and fast enough where if you
00:19:54.100
don't have the endurance or if you haven't trained, what they're looking to do is just, you know,
00:19:57.620
find people who've put in some effort. So, right. Right. So I, I'm like, okay, we're going to hire
00:20:02.300
you a coach. We're going to do this. And it came to test time the morning of the test. And I said,
00:20:08.980
Leah, you know, look, honey, we only had a few days to train and I don't think you're ready for this.
00:20:13.600
And I don't want to produce a situation where you, where you go when we, if we know you're not going
00:20:18.540
to make it where you go and fail and you don't want to try again. Um, and I, I thought long and
00:20:23.500
hard about that. I'm all about kids failing. Kids need to fail, but their behavior is going to be
00:20:29.040
based off their experiences. So in this situation, it was just my gut feeling. I was like, okay, I don't
00:20:33.980
think I'm going to have her do this. And she looked at me and said, dad, I want to do this. You can't
00:20:39.980
stop me. There's nothing you can do to stop me all. I want to try my best. And, and this, I hope this
00:20:45.700
answers your question. So at that moment I looked at her and said, okay, based on that response and
00:20:51.880
you are absolutely ready, you are absolutely ready to go and experience the consequences and bounce
00:20:57.060
back for him. And she's got a history of experiencing consequences and keeping on going. So that was me
00:21:02.400
leading like, okay, honey, I think we're going to shut this down. And then that was her saying, nope,
00:21:07.620
I'm going to do it. And then I was like, you, you got it. You're ready. There you go. So that was her step,
00:21:12.800
right? Guys, as you know, by now we have an amazing event lined up September 15th through the
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reserve your spot quickly. I'm really looking forward to seeing you there. Now let's get back
00:22:21.660
to my interview with Eric. And I think we need to be a little bit cautious here. I mean, correct me if
00:22:27.860
I'm wrong, but I could isolate that one situation and almost just assume that it's that easy. But reality
00:22:34.760
tells me that just the relationship that you've built with your daughter over years and the
00:22:40.300
conversations that you've had over years and developing her character and her commitment and her
00:22:45.700
discipline is what leads to the type of conversation that you had in this circumstance, I'm assuming.
00:22:51.420
No, you know, that's, that's super wise of you. That's a great observation. Look, it's a, so I have a
00:22:58.260
Belgian Malinois, right? They're the, they're like German shepherds, just nastier. They're the dogs they use in the
00:23:02.480
SEAL teams. I got her right out of that pipeline. So I've spent some time, a lot of time studying
00:23:07.460
behavior change and behavior science, because that's how these dogs are trained now. And it
00:23:11.180
is absolutely applicable to team or to human beings, athletes. They're using with kids with
00:23:16.200
autism, everything like that. Um, and this kind of, I have another chapter called, uh, don't be right,
00:23:21.340
be effective. But what, what you're, what you're observing there is that's an example, like, okay,
00:23:26.460
what do I want to do? I want to produce confidence. I want to produce a situation where my daughters,
00:23:30.280
my son are not afraid to go into a new situation where they may fail, right? They're going to have
00:23:36.140
to experience failure over and over again. And they got to get really good at taking that failure
00:23:40.060
and growing from it. That was the objective. And I've been at that for 23 years. Right, right.
00:23:47.060
That was me thinking, Hey, I think if she goes into this situation, we're going to produce a traumatic
00:23:52.300
situation that she may or may not be ready for, which might stop her from trying. Cause all I want
00:23:57.000
to do is make sure that she continues to keep going after it. And it was her answer that told me my
00:24:02.820
gut was wrong. She was ready. And she was, she went, she failed. They said, you can try one more time
00:24:08.760
today. She said, absolutely. She went, she failed. They said, Hey, we're going to open this up again
00:24:13.880
next Monday because we don't have enough people. She went, she failed. They said, you can try more
00:24:18.660
time. One more time. She went, she, they, she failed again. And then God willing, they said at the
00:24:26.020
end, like we still don't have enough people. We're going to redo this thing two weeks from now,
00:24:29.580
which that gives us plenty of time to train. And I just said in the car, I said, Leah, I am so proud
00:24:33.860
of you. You can't, there's nothing you can't do in life. If you keep trying like that. Now we got some
00:24:39.140
luck by them reopening this test two weeks from now. But I said, Leah, somehow luck always falls
00:24:44.860
persistency. And she got that. So we, it was a win. So she made it that last time than that. And that
00:24:51.940
the two week later, then it sounds like, no, I don't know yet. She's, she's been, she's been at
00:24:56.340
home training. Daddy had to fly out to New York, right? You got to get, got to get work. Oh, I
00:25:00.280
didn't realize it was this. It was that recent. No, yeah, this, no, this was a Sunday. Okay. Yeah.
00:25:06.480
Oh yeah. We're in the middle of it. Fingers crossed then. Yeah. I'll update y'all when she makes it
00:25:10.600
two weeks. I'm confident she shaved her time every single time, but we just needed a little more time
00:25:15.020
for some endurance. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Well, one of the things that you talk about that I've run
00:25:20.060
across and I followed your website now for some time, and I'm stoked to, to delve into your book
00:25:24.100
a little bit deeper. You talk about some of the things that boys are facing as they're growing up.
00:25:29.140
And I'd like to hear your take on that. And some of the things that, uh, that, that boys are facing
00:25:34.100
these days. Well, I reached out to my kind of group of readers and asked them like, Hey, what are the
00:25:38.960
questions you guys have, you know, about childhood or raising kids? And you know, what are the things you
00:25:44.620
guys are bumping into? And they sent me a whole bunch of stuff. Uh, one of the things that, uh,
00:25:50.060
that people mentioned over and over again, um, they asked me if I thought society suffers from
00:25:55.820
a lack of good male role role models. And I would say the answer is absolutely yes. And, and this,
00:26:03.060
but I'm not going to ding on anybody's dad, but here's the situation. I'm 43 years old
00:26:07.360
and anyone in kind of this generation or the one just behind us, uh, our parents or grandparents
00:26:14.140
were brought up in a very different time than we're brought up now. Right? So male role
00:26:19.980
models, what they did is like I said earlier, a lot of what we think makes a man, a man is
00:26:24.020
actually manhood failure, right? Like fighting, being tough, being stoic. That's usually guys
00:26:28.320
do that when they don't know what to do. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. Right. That's, that's
00:26:32.640
when we get violent. I noticed it with my wife when she frustrates me or I just want to stop
00:26:37.000
the conversation. I'll raise my voice a little bit and get aggressive. I'm like, Oh geez, what
00:26:40.560
a punk. Cause that's, you know, that's what happens when you run out of the gray matter.
00:26:44.820
But well, you're probably talking here about emotional maturity as well.
00:26:49.860
Absolutely. Oh, absolutely. Self-regulation, emotional maturity, all that stuff. It's a
00:26:54.640
new, it's a new phase that we're in, but our, our dads and grandfathers in our culture still
00:27:00.700
says what dads do is wake up, go to work, make money, come home, kick their shoes off, watch
00:27:04.740
TV, go to bed, pat the kid on the head. And that's about it. Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:10.240
Yeah. But that's not how it goes anymore. Again, this world's so complex. There's so many
00:27:15.180
input points. There's all the social media. Kids have phones in their pocket. Even if they don't
00:27:20.180
have a phone in their pocket, their three friends have phones in their pocket. There's so much
00:27:24.740
guidance and so many more opportunities to rudder correct than there used to be when our dads were
00:27:30.160
growing up or even when we were growing up, there weren't that many things, right? There weren't that
00:27:35.000
many distractions. So, Hey, go to school, do your homework, get to soccer practice, get home. There
00:27:39.360
weren't a thousand other things. So the typical cultural male role models that we have today,
00:27:44.360
they're still not fully engaged. They haven't gotten fully Renaissance. They're not mastering
00:27:48.900
social media. They're not mastering their work so that they do have the time and energy to make the
00:27:53.460
money and get home and take the kids to soccer, have those mini conversations with them. So I think
00:27:59.120
there's a huge lack of male role models because we don't have, we have not redefined manhood yet
00:28:04.640
because when we were all working hard, busting our butt to get through this economy, a whole bunch
00:28:09.300
of dudes in skinny jeans were redefining manhood while we were gone. And now we got to come back
00:28:13.400
and kind of reset things straight again. So how do we do that? I mean, what's the first step into
00:28:17.720
making this right? So I have a core philosophy. When I, when I first, when I first left corporations
00:28:23.260
and started writing full time, I'd kind of, I'd spent some time studying something called permanent
00:28:28.800
domains of human concerns. A doctor named Fernando Flores describes these 13 things that all humans
00:28:34.240
share. And there are things like money, body, spirituality, you know, helping others. I mean,
00:28:39.000
none of them are like, wow, I wasn't thinking about that, but right. Okay. Most people aren't
00:28:44.200
clear. It's kind of like if you were a mechanic and you didn't know all of the parts of the car,
00:28:48.300
you'd have a hard time keeping that thing running. Most people aren't really clear of all of the
00:28:53.080
elements of life. And then the sub elements that make those things, whether they're good or not.
00:28:57.520
So I think one of the first things people need to do is they need to become situationally aware of
00:29:02.560
what really matters, right? What are the things I need to care for, for my family? Does that mean
00:29:08.100
my, my wife, my kids? How about my, my parents? How about grandparents? How about, how about a
00:29:14.340
sister or a sister-in-law, right? We have to get very situationally aware so that we can maintain
00:29:19.920
focus on what matters. Does that make sense what I'm saying? If we're, if we're not super, super clear
00:29:24.660
and like, I literally have a mind map of all of the stuff that I believe to be important in life.
00:29:28.520
And I assess it. It's either red, blue, or green, right? And if it's into the red, I'm not paying
00:29:33.300
attention to anything else. It helps me stay focused. And I think that's one of the most
00:29:36.860
important things right now. What we focus on is what we live and what we focus on is what we're
00:29:41.200
going to care for. So with your mind mapping process, I mean, is this an app you use? Is this
00:29:45.700
a piece of paper and a notepad? What does this look like for you? Yeah, I actually, I use an online
00:29:50.500
mind mapping software. Um, I use MindMeister. There's of course there's Mindjet and stuff like that,
00:29:56.080
but I like MindMeister. And I know kidding. This is something I teach people. I've done it in
00:30:01.000
business. I've done it in life. And I know kidding go through each one of those elements
00:30:04.680
and I make an assessment. I do it with my spouse and I talk to her about it and then we color code
00:30:08.780
them. And then we say, okay, now that we've, we've noticed them, now that we've assessed them,
00:30:12.980
now we have to prioritize and take action. And then what we do is we stick on that thing until that
00:30:17.600
thing is cared for. And none of this BS about keeping balance. There's no such thing. There's too many
00:30:22.620
things in life to balance, but you can keep things in harmony. Right. So like, okay, right. We're
00:30:27.360
going to care for these things. That's something people need to know too. Cause sometimes you got
00:30:30.420
to work your butt off for six months. If you're starting a new business or, or, or work's gone
00:30:35.180
or anything, you got to reeducate yourself. It's okay to just nail it for six months or eight months
00:30:39.960
or nine months and say, Hey kids, dad's going to be a little tired at night, but we'll spend a day
00:30:44.180
a week on the weekend, whatever it's going to be. We need to make sure everything is cared for.
00:30:48.640
Yeah. And that's a great point. And the other side of that, and we talk about this a lot,
00:30:51.520
is that you can't make decisions in a vacuum. So if you're putting your, your head down and
00:30:55.020
you're really cranking it out on a book, for example, that you wrote over this past X amount
00:30:58.740
of months, if you're diligent, you're focused, you prioritize, you're committed. And all of these
00:31:03.600
things that went into helping you write this book translate perfectly into other areas of your life.
00:31:08.820
So just because you're focused on one area, it doesn't mean you aren't still developing skills
00:31:13.720
that will apply to other areas of your life. Yeah. That's super, super well said. When you do lock
00:31:19.100
down, you, you push something forward, way forward, but you do get stronger faster and you do develop
00:31:24.300
a new skill for it. I wrote that book in less than 90 days. I did you really? Oh yeah. I got,
00:31:28.960
I mean, I'd been writing for years before, uh, but we had a quick deadline and I got to the point
00:31:34.140
where I can, no kidding, stay in deep focus for eight hours a day writing. The only thing that would
00:31:39.160
falter on me would literally be my hands would start going numb and falling asleep, but I could
00:31:43.080
concentrate at the highest levels. And that's now served me sense because now when I, when I write
00:31:49.000
my regular papers or shoot my videos, I'm, I'm like, it's child's play. It's too easy to do a
00:31:53.620
thousand, 1500 words now. Yeah. That's, that's interesting. I don't know if I have the mental
00:31:58.860
fortitude at this point to do it because I, if I have to sit down and write a blog post, like you
00:32:03.260
said, a thousand or 1500 words, I'm like, Oh, I go crazy. And I got to jump around and bounce around
00:32:07.680
and do something else. So kudos to you for developing that focus and that skill.
00:32:12.320
Yeah. Well, and that's the important part for people to understand it is a muscle, right? So
00:32:15.940
like even, and you know, I can just by talking to you for a short amount of time, I'm sure you
00:32:19.760
already know this, but right now you may not be able to sit down and just pound out a thousand words.
00:32:25.060
But if you did a hundred today, then 120 tomorrow. And the reason I'm, you'll build that muscle,
00:32:30.940
you'll build that skill. And the reason I bring it up, cause that's another thing I see when
00:32:34.940
coaching and training people is people start designing their life based off their current
00:32:39.500
desires, their current capacities and their current capabilities. And that, that messes people up.
00:32:45.200
People like, I have a hard time focusing or I'm not creative or I'm not disciplined or whatever it
00:32:49.520
is like, okay, that's what you are right this moment, but you can develop those things as muscles.
00:32:54.420
And that's important for people to realize that cause they don't, they can't feel so limited.
00:32:58.500
They could do anything. Yeah. And this is why we see that exponential growth,
00:33:02.440
right? Because we didn't even realize the barriers that we were imposing upon ourselves.
00:33:10.800
No. And that's where confidence comes from. My definition of confidence is the, like the belief
00:33:15.680
that you can do something you've never done before. And, and that belief comes from having done things
00:33:20.700
that you weren't able to do. You know what I mean? Like, okay, you know, I ran a marathon. I can't just go
00:33:26.700
run a marathon if I'm not training for it. And so I don't want to decide if I have the ability to run a
00:33:31.900
marathon on my first day of running. I have to recognize the fact that if I keep training that
00:33:36.640
that ability will grow. And you know, the deal from being in the military, 99% of what we do is
00:33:41.700
train. When I first went into the corporate world, I was training high-end financial advisors. And I
00:33:46.140
always felt so bad because I knew nothing but to learn how to do things that I couldn't do before.
00:33:51.400
These guys didn't. They're like, I'm not good at sales. I'm not good on the phone. I'm not good
00:33:55.460
with a customer. And they just set their life. And it's like, no, dude, that's not the deal. You can get
00:34:00.620
better at these things. You have to keep training. Interesting. Yeah, it's funny. I just made a post
00:34:06.100
on our Facebook group. I said, what comes first, action or confidence? And it was really interesting
00:34:12.420
to hear the response, but the overwhelming responses that you have to have. This was one of
00:34:17.220
the ones I really liked. Somebody said, you have to have the courage to take action. And then the
00:34:22.200
action breeds the confidence, which made a ton of sense to me. Yeah, there you go. Absolutely. I have
00:34:28.020
this formula. I do that. It basically follows a sniper stock. It's a purpose, action, information
00:34:32.900
debrief, but it's what you're talking about right there. Taking action for the sake of gathering
00:34:37.380
information, skill, capacity, and then reapplying it. And it's, it's, it's one of those things
00:34:42.420
that once you see it and hear it, you know, you're like, okay, I've always somehow known
00:34:46.980
that, or that's always been the way it's been, but I've never believed or I've never lived my
00:34:50.920
life that way. But my hope is that when I talk about it or guys like you talk about it and
00:34:55.620
we can stand up and say, Hey, I did this and it works that people will say, you know what?
00:34:59.300
I got it. That makes sense. And I'm going to start doing it and I'm just going to keep doing
00:35:02.800
it till I can figure this thing out. And that's actually a great point because a lot of the
00:35:06.280
times we hear these things like we need to be great at goal setting, for example, and we need
00:35:10.160
to set ambitious goals, which to a degree, I believe, but if you don't think that you can
00:35:14.100
accomplish it, the goal isn't necessarily at this point to write a novel or a New York Times
00:35:18.920
bestseller. It's to write a hundred words, write an about me page, write a blog post about
00:35:24.960
something you believe in and that those skills, like you said, will develop into the skills
00:35:28.880
required to write that New York Times bestseller. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's a concept I call
00:35:33.740
training versus trying and you got it. It's, you know, back to training these Malinois and
00:35:39.540
the behavior change. If you train a dog just to go pick up an object and bring it back to
00:35:43.420
you, there's like 10 layers to that. Yeah. And people ask me all the time, like, Hey, how
00:35:48.180
do I train confidence in my kid or my kids in this situation? How do I get them to the next
00:35:52.500
situation? And I always, a lot of times I always call it the next truth. A lot of times
00:35:57.120
people are trying to move too far. You know, they just want that end state. They just want
00:36:00.940
to hit the goal. But most of the time we've got to break that thing down into a thousand
00:36:04.420
little tiny pieces and build ourselves up one by one. That's where the confidence comes
00:36:08.520
from. And that's how it is. It's going to take work and time. There is just no overnight
00:36:11.840
capacity. That's all in the movies, right? Only in the movies can somebody the night before
00:36:16.180
not be able to defeat the bad guy. Then the next day, all of a sudden they can. That's
00:36:19.580
why we love those movies. That's not how it works. Yeah. It's not how it works in real
00:36:22.920
life. We're going to fall back. Yeah. It's a little, a little different when we're living
00:36:25.880
it. Right. Amen. Hey, so you talk about in the book, you talk about being a seal parent.
00:36:31.040
Explain that to me a little bit. So here, you know, here's the thing, like, you know, being
00:36:34.560
a seal and, and, and, and why it's applicable, you know, when we write books or coaching and,
00:36:39.020
and, and things like that is the one thing we know about seals or other military, or, you
00:36:43.680
know, even if it's an NFL football player talking about performance, we know it's no BS. There's
00:36:48.420
so much BS self-help coaching crap out there. I mean, it's almost disgusting, you know, how
00:36:55.360
many people are trying to make offers like that. But so I use the seal analogy so that
00:37:00.360
people know it's coming from somewhere real, right? Like this is a place that where we,
00:37:04.960
these things are proven, they're proven on the battlefield to proven in our life. And when
00:37:09.240
we apply it to parenting, again, it's that extreme situation that I thought people would
00:37:14.220
have value. Okay. So when I go away from home from work, it was six, eight, nine months sometimes
00:37:20.000
in a single year. So that extreme example, I think often helps people see things. And
00:37:25.660
one of the things I learned there from that, it's not, I found my life with my older kids
00:37:30.260
to be more rich. And I was a better father and a better parent when I was deploying all
00:37:35.160
the time. Then with my younger kids, when I became an entrepreneur, and a writer, because
00:37:40.900
though I was home every day, I wasn't present to them as many days out of the year. And
00:37:45.060
it's examples like that, that I would not have come up with or thought of if I hadn't
00:37:48.940
been a seal. And that's why I think kind of that seal parent analogy is so useful for people
00:37:53.820
to give them permission, um, and to awaken them to some things they may or may not be noticing.
00:37:58.980
So have you found anybody with regards to feedback in the book saying, you know, I can see
00:38:04.860
how these principles might apply, but this is a completely different situation. I mean, how do
00:38:10.320
we learn these skills for ourselves and then be able to implement them as parents without
00:38:16.780
Yeah, that's a, that's a great question. So I've been kind of putting some quotes up on
00:38:20.220
my Twitter or Twitter, whatever. And the latest one I got was from a lady who said, Hey, I
00:38:25.120
don't have, I don't even have kids yet. Not only am I a female, but I don't have kids
00:38:28.760
yet and I'm already learning so much. This book is not written for the military type or, or
00:38:35.680
anything like that. What I, what I did is again, I took those fundamentals that these
00:38:40.300
things are fundamental principles like this. So gravity applies to somebody designing an
00:38:44.620
airplane, just like it applies to a kid jumping off their bunk bed.
00:38:48.080
Sure. So the best I can describe this book is what I'm doing is describing something like
00:38:52.640
gravity so that somebody has just a deep enough understanding of it so that they can now apply
00:38:57.100
it to a paper airplane or a parachute. So they're like, okay, I got it. I can now see why some things
00:39:01.520
are working and why some things aren't working. And that's what the book's about. So the seal
00:39:06.700
sayings and principles and stories, those are analogies and examples that give people the
00:39:11.300
opportunity in a very engaging and entertainment, entertaining way to travel with me through my
00:39:17.240
life as a parent and as a seal. But I, I don't want to say I pride myself, but I'm definitely
00:39:22.620
known for my ability to bridge from one topic to the other. And as a trainer and an educator,
00:39:27.980
that's what I do say, okay, check this thing out. See what's going on right there.
00:39:32.400
Here's what that means. And here's how it applies to your life. That's what this book is all about.
00:39:36.600
Yeah. And that's such a valuable skill to have. I mean, our, our entire lives are a list of
00:39:42.040
metaphors and I use competitive sports. You know, I grew up playing sports, football, baseball,
00:39:46.700
I wrestled, and those are just a metaphor for life and how you can handle life and winning and
00:39:51.720
losing and training and discipline and hard work and commitment and teamwork and all of the things
00:39:55.840
that go into competitive sports is, is a metaphor for life. So there can be lessons extracted
00:39:59.680
everywhere. It makes total sense to me. Yeah, absolutely. So Eric, we're winding down on time.
00:40:04.740
I'm really excited to get this book in the hands of our audience. Cause I know a lot of the guys
00:40:08.980
on that are listening are parents and they're raising boys. So I know there are going to be a
00:40:12.660
lot of lessons learned here. So we're going to, I'm going to give you an opportunity to share how
00:40:15.740
we do that here in a second. But before I get into that, I want to ask you a question. I ask all of my
00:40:20.140
guests and the question is, what does it mean to be a man?
00:40:23.180
What it means to be a man for me is to seek out, understand, and accept all of the roles
00:40:32.260
of manhood. What are, what are all of the things you are responsible for? Whether you,
00:40:37.500
you took that responsibility on intentionally or you took that responsibility on unintentionally,
00:40:43.740
i.e. a new baby showed up, however it goes, however it is. Being a man is understanding those
00:40:49.440
roles and caring for them very meticulously, very methodically, and then doing it in a way where
00:40:55.780
you can lead others, especially your kids to do the same. That to me is manhood.
00:41:00.700
That makes total sense. And it's in line with what I believe, which is basically personal
00:41:04.420
accountability and responsibility for the things that he's responsibility for. So love it. Makes
00:41:08.660
total sense. Eric, how do we connect with you? If we're listening to this, we like the information
00:41:12.920
you have to share. We want to check out your blog, obviously your book too. How do we do that?
00:41:15.560
Yeah, I think probably the best way to connect with me in all things is I, I, on my blog,
00:41:21.400
Eric Davis 215. So just my name, you know, www.ericdavis215.com. And on there, it's got a link
00:41:28.780
to the, it says books and you can buy the books. It's got a link to my other blogs or my, my other
00:41:33.840
papers. And it's got links to other papers that I syndicate on the places like force 12 media,
00:41:39.060
soft rep, loadout room, other sites like that. I'll put some link in my site as well. That'll send
00:41:43.380
people over there as well. So what I did is work to create that as to be a single hub. That is all
00:41:47.640
things Eric Davis, and it'll send you out to where you need to go from there.
00:41:52.040
Very cool. We'll make sure we have all the links in the show notes so they can connect with you.
00:41:55.800
Eric, I want to tell you, I appreciate you. I appreciate your service to our nation and us
00:41:59.600
and, and taking time to impart some of your wisdom in raising men today. Thanks for being on the show,
00:42:04.500
My pleasure. Thanks for having me, Ryan. And I just want to thank you too. I appreciate the trust and
00:42:09.020
all the work that you've done to build an audience and then people that listen and follow you. And,
00:42:13.000
you know, thanks for allowing me to be on and share that with you. That means a lot.
00:42:20.140
There you have it guys. Retired Navy SEAL, Eric Davis. If you're a father or if you're helping
00:42:24.400
the young men in your community, this is a book you need to read. As Eric mentioned,
00:42:28.140
the lack of male role models in young boys lives is disturbing. So I urge you, I beg, I plead with you
00:42:34.120
to get involved in our youth's lives. Everything that we as men are creating is going to be in their
00:42:38.960
hands soon. So let's equip them with the tools they need to be successful.
00:42:43.140
Now, in the meantime, guys, remember our inaugural order of men uprising, September 15th through the
00:42:48.280
18th, 2016. I do expect this event to sell out. We're going to be taking three days in a cabin.
00:42:54.220
I leased out for us to really give you all of the tools. The resources are going to be activities
00:42:58.720
to take your life to the next level. So go to order of men.com slash uprising for all the details.
00:43:04.340
I look forward to talking to you next week, guys, but until then take action and become the man
00:43:08.020
you were meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take
00:43:13.020
charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order