Order of Man - OoM 076： Building Your Band of Brothers with Stephen Mansfield

00:00:00.060 Building a band of brothers is something we hear a lot about, but few of us, as men, actually take the time to do it.

00:00:05.360 We all know no man is an island, but how do you actually enlist the help of the men around you?

00:00:10.080 Today I talk with New York Times bestselling author Stephen Mansfield about identifying men who will help you on your journey,

00:00:16.040 how to approach them, some common pitfalls to avoid, and how you can be successful on your own quest to build your band of brothers.

00:00:22.800 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest.

00:00:25.580 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path when life knocks you down.

00:00:30.000 You get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:33.100 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:37.900 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.

00:00:42.460 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:47.820 Men, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am your host and the founder of Order of Man.

00:00:52.300 The podcast today is sponsored by my friends over at Fulton & Rourke.

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00:01:24.920 Now let's get to the show today. As always, I'm glad you're here with us.

00:01:28.920 We're talking about all things manly in this show, from being a stronger leader, a more connected father and husband, a better business owner, and at the end of the day, a better man.

00:01:38.160 Specifically today, we're talking about building your band of brothers, a tribe, a fraternity, a collection of men who will not let each other down.

00:01:45.060 But first, I want you to know that you can get all the show notes and the links and everything that we talk about for this show at OrderOfMan.com slash 076.

00:01:53.140 And second, make sure, if you haven't already, that you join our closed men's Facebook group for a deeper conversation about this show at Facebook.com slash groups slash OrderOfMan.

00:02:02.620 Now, I want to introduce you to my guest today, Mr. Steven Mansfield.

00:02:05.740 He is a New York Times bestselling author and a popular speaker who advises leaders worldwide.

00:02:10.380 He's also a regular commentator on Fox News and CNN.

00:02:14.260 He's written celebrated biographies of Booker T. Washington, George Whitefield, Winston Churchill, Pope Benedict, and Abraham Lincoln, among others.

00:02:21.620 Steven's book, Mansfield's Book of Manly Men, which you can hear more about in a previous interview at OrderOfMan.com slash 038, has inspired men's events around the world.

00:02:31.140 Steven speaks widely about men, leadership, faith, the lessons of history, and the forces that shape modern culture.

00:02:36.640 And today, he's here to talk with us about building your band of brothers.

00:02:40.380 Steven, thanks for joining me on the show today for part two of our discussion.

00:02:44.520 Hey, I'm looking forward to it.

00:02:46.000 So, the last time you came on, I'll have to look.

00:02:47.860 I don't know exactly when it was, but we talked about your book, Mansfield's Book of Manly Men.

00:02:52.480 That's a tongue twister, so I've got to make sure I say that, right?

00:02:55.240 And now we're here to talk about the companion, the follow-up, which is building your band of brothers, which is a topic and a conversation I know a lot of guys are really interested in having.

00:03:03.120 So, I'm looking forward to delving into this one.

00:03:04.820 Great.

00:03:05.520 So, tell me a little bit about the premise behind the book, and then we'll get into it a little bit more.

00:03:09.280 Well, as you know, when I wrote Mansfield's Book of Manly Men, it really kind of blew up.

00:03:13.100 Part of it was that some major media figures got behind it, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck and some other people, and they began talking about it.

00:03:20.700 And then we began to do a lot of conferences around the world, and I was really grateful.

00:03:24.400 But I wished that I had pushed more in that book, the conclusion, the real action point for guys, which is now go out and build a band of brothers.

00:03:33.880 Don't wait for me to come back.

00:03:35.120 Don't wait for the next conference, the next seminar.

00:03:36.920 Go out and build this band of brothers with whom you can walk out noble manhood.

00:03:43.100 And so, when I began to see that all that we were doing was good, it was having a good impact, but that I wanted to leave something in the hands of guys.

00:03:50.480 It was kind of a blueprint, kind of a battle plan, and kind of a guide for how they could build their band of brothers.

00:03:57.020 I decided to do this little paperback as a companion to the bigger book, and it's just released this past week and already starting to take off, too.

00:04:03.440 Because, obviously, everybody's got the first book once the second, so it's going to work out great to help these guys move along.

00:04:09.360 Yeah, and of all the things that you could choose or hope that guys would do as a follow-up, why choose building a band of brothers?

00:04:15.240 Why is that the action step?

00:04:16.820 Well, because if they've read Mansfield's book of manly men or other great books on manhood, I'm not saying I've got the only one, or if they've been listening to me for a two- or three-day seminar or a one-day seminar, then the issue is they leave fired up to be men, fired up to be good men, noble men, fired up to make a difference in their generation and bring the sons into a manly culture and so on.

00:04:37.420 But I don't want them leaving thinking they have to do it alone.

00:04:40.860 I believe that we can't really become the men we're meant to be alone.

00:04:44.600 So I wanted to show them how to build a band of brothers.

00:04:48.700 And, frankly, this whole skill of engaging friends, bringing men into kind of an agreement, a banding together to accomplish a purpose as men, it's kind of a lost skill.

00:05:00.080 200 years ago, guys automatically had a band of brothers, a posse, a group, a gang.

00:05:05.500 They lived in tribes.

00:05:06.620 They lived in villages.

00:05:07.520 They lived in communities.

00:05:08.700 And so you automatically had that community of men.

00:05:11.320 But we not only don't have it, we've lost the skills of building it.

00:05:15.040 So I wanted to really emphasize those in the book.

00:05:17.460 And this makes a ton of sense.

00:05:18.760 What's really interesting, and my wife can attest to this, is we are literally leading hundreds of thousands of men here on the podcast.

00:05:25.760 And I know your audience is probably even bigger than that.

00:05:27.820 But what's really interesting, even for me, is I don't really have a tight-knit, quote-unquote, band of brothers myself.

00:05:34.100 Why is this so difficult for men?

00:05:35.580 Well, we're just in a sea of casual relationships.

00:05:40.400 We have our, you know, basketball buddies or, you know, guys we get a beer with or, you know, guys we hang out with.

00:05:45.840 But we haven't moved it to the next level, which is to engage other men in the project of becoming great men.

00:05:52.440 So what I do is I challenge you guys.

00:05:54.100 You know, the goal of a band of brothers is to get to the point where you've got a free-fire zone.

00:05:59.140 That's really the measure.

00:06:00.640 A free-fire zone is where you've got an agreement amongst your buddies that anything that needs to be said to each other to make each other better men will be said.

00:06:08.420 And then there's an investment to follow up on that.

00:06:10.960 And so I've got lots of friends, but I don't have very many guys with whom I have that free-fire zone.

00:06:16.420 You know, I show up overweight with four or five of my guys.

00:06:18.940 I show up having gained 10, 15 pounds.

00:06:21.200 I show up and have a cell phone conversation with my wife that's bitter and angry.

00:06:25.380 I show up for dinner and then check out the backside of the waitress the whole night.

00:06:28.820 These guys are going to get on my case.

00:06:30.220 They're going to ask me what's going on.

00:06:31.520 They're going to check on me.

00:06:32.340 They're going to find out what's going on.

00:06:33.780 They're going to confront me and help me be a better man.

00:06:36.780 And that's what we need.

00:06:38.020 We need guys who can help drill into our souls, who know us, who know our deformities a little bit, who do life with us.

00:06:43.660 We want to have fun.

00:06:44.460 We want to be rowdy with them.

00:06:45.780 But at the same time, you've got to have someone who's got your back in terms of your internals, in terms of, you know, what is it that you can be?

00:06:54.120 Are you pressing in on being the best man you can be?

00:06:56.680 And if things go wrong, these guys are close enough to catch it.

00:06:59.920 So all of that to say, we're really good at social stuff, especially millennials.

00:07:05.520 They're very social.

00:07:06.600 Thank God they're bringing in a good social emphasis on our society.

00:07:09.380 But we're not that good at drilling down into the deeper stuff and taking it into the soul and saying, look, you kick my butt if I need it, man.

00:07:16.800 I want to be a great man.

00:07:18.280 So I imagine anybody that's listening to this podcast, just by the nature of them listening to this podcast, tells me that there's somebody who's willing to invest in themselves, want to improve, want to get better, are willing to be vulnerable, willing to put themselves out there.

00:07:31.800 How do you find a group of guys who's willing to do the same thing?

00:07:35.100 I imagine that's probably one of the biggest barriers or hurdles when it comes to building that band of brothers.

00:07:40.020 Yeah, you've got to take your existing friendships and you've got to turn them in a direction of a band of brothers or, as we say, 3B.

00:07:46.640 We use shorthand in our little groups.

00:07:49.040 We talk about 3B, just 3B that relationship.

00:07:51.580 So let's say, Ryan, you're out, you know, and you've got a guy and you're shooting hoops.

00:07:54.460 You grab something to eat afterwards and you enjoy the friendship, but you've never really talked about what it means to be a man or you've never really asked him, hey, look, I want you to kick my butt.

00:08:03.220 If you see anything wrong in my life, I'll do the same with you.

00:08:05.860 And I want you to get you in my home so you can kind of look around and see what I'm doing and just talk to me about things.

00:08:11.200 We haven't done that.

00:08:12.400 Well, what we can do is to start with the relationships that we have and just see if those guys will begin to step towards a band of brothers kind of connection.

00:08:21.500 For example, in the book, I say, look, just find something this other guy is good at and enlist his help.

00:08:27.140 For example, let's say you and I are hanging out.

00:08:29.060 You're really good at handling your money.

00:08:30.860 And I'm not.

00:08:31.720 Maybe I don't count well.

00:08:32.900 Maybe I don't handle the checkbook well.

00:08:34.620 Maybe I'm not good at investments.

00:08:36.220 Hey, would you just talk to me, man?

00:08:37.520 If I buy the steak, will you just kind of help me and help me be better in this area?

00:08:41.160 I want to be really good at this.

00:08:42.460 Or maybe the dude that you're hanging with is better at the workout or he's better with raising his kids or he's whatever.

00:08:48.200 Just start to enlist each other's help in addition to the fun and the rowdiness and the playtime that you guys have.

00:08:55.400 And then it can go even further.

00:08:57.080 And I say that maybe the next step after that is just ask him what maybe he's ever thought about manhood.

00:09:02.140 Or give him one of the books that have meant something to you.

00:09:04.500 John Eldridge or my stuff or somebody else's.

00:09:06.860 Just say, hey, I've read this great book.

00:09:08.980 Read it.

00:09:09.360 I'd love to chat with you about it when you're done.

00:09:10.820 And that begins to turn the discussion in addition to fun, the rowdiness, the other stuff that we're doing.

00:09:15.880 That begins to turn the discussion towards a band of brothers' themes.

00:09:19.880 And let's see if the guy bites.

00:09:21.480 Not all your friends are going to be into it, but some will.

00:09:23.980 And those can become the kind of relationships that really enrich your life.

00:09:27.500 And this brings me to what we talk a lot about, which is leaders go first.

00:09:31.660 I think a lot of guys listening to this look at themselves as leaders.

00:09:34.040 And sometimes it just takes you going first, but it also requires a lot of courage as well to be vulnerable and put yourself out there and say, here's what I'm not good at.

00:09:43.280 Here's what I'm asking you to call me out on.

00:09:45.440 How do we overcome some of this fear and nervousness about taking this first step to building this tribe that we are working to build?

00:09:53.420 Well, what we've got to understand is we're better at some things than other guys, and other guys are better at some things than we are.

00:09:58.980 And it's no big takedown of your ego.

00:10:01.680 It's no big diminishment of you if you do what we call in the book the honor principle.

00:10:06.760 The honor principle is just fine.

00:10:08.240 I mean, Ryan, you and I are hanging.

00:10:09.720 There are things that you're better at than I am, so I want to be a better man.

00:10:12.880 So, man, teach me how to do that racquetball backhand or teach me, you know, get me running or whatever it is.

00:10:18.220 There's something.

00:10:19.240 Guys want to improve.

00:10:20.240 Guys want to help each other.

00:10:21.340 You know, a bunch of guys who don't even know each other get on the basketball court.

00:10:24.360 What do they start doing?

00:10:25.240 They start coaching each other immediately.

00:10:26.860 Hey, throw the ball.

00:10:27.640 Hey, don't hog it.

00:10:28.520 Hey, I'm down here.

00:10:29.280 Hey, I'm open.

00:10:29.860 Hey, go around to the right.

00:10:31.180 You know, we just naturally, guys, want to improve, want to win, want to be good.

00:10:36.060 And so we start coaching each other.

00:10:37.760 So what we've got to do that helps us with this whole ego factor is realize, look, you're not better than everybody in every way.

00:10:44.320 You're better than other guys in some ways.

00:10:46.640 And they're better than you in some ways.

00:10:48.300 So how about we get together, have a stake, and talk about how we can help each other improve.

00:10:52.660 And by the way, let's start that just at kind of a natural, you know, kind of an external level money or working out or whatever, you know, playing guitar.

00:11:01.200 And then we can move it more internal to what is it really to be a man?

00:11:04.120 What did your father teach you?

00:11:05.180 And what's been your masculine journey?

00:11:06.620 And, hey, maybe we can help sharpen each other in this area.

00:11:09.400 Yeah, this makes a lot of sense.

00:11:10.620 The one thing I see as being a challenge, and you're right about the sports because I can even see that in myself.

00:11:15.740 But one of the challenges I have is that I will carve out some time for sports.

00:11:19.620 I'll do some of those things.

00:11:20.560 But then at the end of the day, I've got two businesses to run.

00:11:23.820 I've got my family obligations and spiritual and community obligations.

00:11:27.580 You've got speaking tours.

00:11:29.200 You've got Ask the Question is the other book that you have out right now.

00:11:32.500 How do you carve out time for building this tribe?

00:11:36.580 Well, I think that the key is to understand that this is not a therapy group.

00:11:41.400 This is not a study group.

00:11:43.300 This is a bunch of guys doing life together.

00:11:45.000 So it's not like I've got to carve out a couple of nights a week for some kind of a meeting, sitting in a circle of chairs, asking each other how we feel.

00:11:53.400 These are the guys you do life with.

00:11:55.600 And, by the way, when I'm talking to guys, I talk to a lot of executives, a lot of big-time leaders.

00:11:59.980 When I start talking to guys, and I'm talking to them, basically I'm talking about friendship on stun here.

00:12:04.960 I'm talking about going further than most guys go in the area of friendship.

00:12:08.640 Well, it's amazing how many leaders don't really have any friends.

00:12:11.740 They've got people they lead.

00:12:12.780 They've got people who work for them.

00:12:13.980 They've got acquaintances.

00:12:15.100 They've got people in their common profession.

00:12:17.680 But they don't have friends.

00:12:18.740 So I'm happy to push this and say, you just need to carve out that time because most guys are living imbalanced lives when it comes to just friendships and going to see a movie with a bunch of guys.

00:12:28.900 Most guys aren't even doing that.

00:12:30.840 So all that to say, the time, first of all, is essential, especially for busy guys like you and me.

00:12:36.740 And then, of course, we're not talking about sitting in a room staring at each other, trying to dredge up emotions.

00:12:41.800 We're talking about doing life together.

00:12:43.380 So if you haven't got time to go to a movie with a bunch of guys every other week or so, your life's in balance.

00:12:48.220 You just got to fix this.

00:12:49.480 And so that's where I start.

00:12:50.720 I kind of hammer guys and go, you're kidding me.

00:12:52.640 All I'm talking about is getting a steak with a dude once every two or three weeks.

00:12:55.660 What is wrong with you?

00:12:57.040 And so that kind of causes them to back off.

00:12:59.960 Because you know what?

00:13:00.500 I've never met a guy who didn't want this.

00:13:03.520 I mean, I'm actually an introvert, even though I can do decent on stage or in public or here talking to you.

00:13:09.960 I'm actually an introvert.

00:13:10.820 I charge in private.

00:13:11.960 So I feel it.

00:13:12.720 I feel the need to be alone and have a little alone time and read and do all the things I do in private.

00:13:16.500 But even I, as an introvert, I desperately need this.

00:13:19.620 Every man needs this.

00:13:21.080 And that's why I wanted to write this booklet because it'll be a guide to getting there.

00:13:24.760 How do you get from your isolated cubicle kind of life, your busy life, to where you've got rich friendships and you're beginning to help each other be righteous men?

00:13:33.920 One of the things that my wife and I do is we'll actually have couples that we don't know well in the community.

00:13:39.260 We'll have them all over the house.

00:13:41.020 And I've noticed that this is a good way to get to know a lot of people at once because you're going to resonate with others and you're not going to resonate with a few people.

00:13:48.540 I want to be very hesitant of using the term leverage.

00:13:52.400 I'm not trying to leverage this.

00:13:53.580 That sounds like a negative term.

00:13:54.900 But it is an opportunity when you're talking about getting guys in groups to see who you're naturally going to have and be able to build a relationship with.

00:14:01.920 Yeah, no, that's absolutely true.

00:14:03.460 One of the things I talk about in the book, we get very practical because I believe in the indirect connection.

00:14:08.320 Men need to have an indirect connection.

00:14:11.520 You know, they do these studies with little boys and little girls.

00:14:14.300 And they put them in a room and they let them manipulate the environment.

00:14:16.800 Well, inevitably, the little girls will turn chairs towards each other, look each other right in the face until one of them says, I like your hair.

00:14:24.820 I like your dress.

00:14:26.280 Well, the little boys, what do they do?

00:14:28.180 They move those chairs side by side so they're shoulder to shoulder.

00:14:31.080 And then they look around and go, bet I can beat you to that tree, bet we could go whoop up on Tommy, bet we can set that door on fire or whatever, you know.

00:14:40.580 So they start thinking of things to do together.

00:14:42.860 Men relate better if they have something indirect to do rather than just going straight to the emotional depth.

00:14:49.060 So I'm telling you guys, man, call guys over to watch the game.

00:14:53.540 Man, have a grill out thing.

00:14:55.100 Watch, you know, do a pickup basketball thing.

00:14:57.820 Go for a run.

00:14:58.540 And don't make guys get in the living room, circle up, start talking about deep stuff.

00:15:02.700 Just give them some method for indirect connection.

00:15:04.980 So what you're doing by having people out for dinner or over for dinner, you know, that gives us something to do.

00:15:10.700 And then other things boil to the surface.

00:15:12.380 And, you know, what we're talking about here, guys knew how to do 100 years ago or 200 years ago.

00:15:17.440 They just knew if you were going to connect with a guy, you said, come over and help me raise my barn.

00:15:21.400 We'll get to know each other or whatever.

00:15:22.980 Sure.

00:15:23.160 So we've just lost those skills.

00:15:24.580 But men need to know that it's not a matter of having to be deeply emotional in the first time or together.

00:15:30.320 It's just a matter of creating some indirect way for guys to connect up.

00:15:33.780 And I think that's probably one of the fears guys have is you talk about sitting in a circle and expressing each other's feelings and all of that stuff, which does not resonate with me or probably the majority of people and even yourself listening to this podcast.

00:15:47.440 So it is good to know that we don't have to have these necessarily touchy-feely conversations.

00:15:51.880 But we do need to have an objective.

00:15:53.780 We do need to have an endgame.

00:15:54.820 And it might even be us versus them in a way, for lack of a better term.

00:15:58.500 Yeah, it really is true.

00:15:59.640 You know, my band of brothers got a bunch of very diverse people.

00:16:02.340 Just because I helped chaplain the Washington Redskins, I've got a couple of guys in my band of brothers who are ex-NFL.

00:16:10.180 And then I've got guys who are like, literally, we have an Asian accountant.

00:16:13.080 We all laugh about that.

00:16:13.960 We literally have an Asian accountant who has big Coke bottle glasses.

00:16:16.920 And he tells jokes about that more than anybody.

00:16:19.160 And then we've got me and other people.

00:16:21.240 And my point is, let me tell you, you are not getting these guys to sit still in the living room and talk about their emotions.

00:16:26.300 Of course not.

00:16:26.700 We're lifting weights.

00:16:28.200 We're out hiking.

00:16:29.260 We're fishing.

00:16:30.120 We're beating on each other.

00:16:31.120 We're eating too much.

00:16:32.060 But everything comes to the surface while you're doing other things.

00:16:36.200 And so I think that that's really the way it goes.

00:16:39.920 And once you get to the point where you say, a guy says, man, I am just gaining weight.

00:16:44.320 I do not know how to work out right.

00:16:45.980 Well, one of the other guys jumps in and says, dude, meet me 8 o'clock Saturday morning.

00:16:49.640 I'll show you some stuff.

00:16:50.660 And we start helping each other.

00:16:51.900 And then it goes deeper.

00:16:52.920 And it really becomes rich.

00:16:54.420 Once you've got a little time here with this free fire zone and you've overcome some things and helped each other in some deep ways, I'll tell you what.

00:17:01.680 Those are lasting brother relationships.

00:17:03.900 Those things will never die.

00:17:04.920 Yeah, I completely agree.

00:17:07.320 I mean, I spent some time in the military.

00:17:08.680 I think we talked about this last time.

00:17:10.000 And I've got some connections.

00:17:11.020 Although we don't stay very connected at this point because of geographical restrictions, there's a couple of guys that I know that I could call and they would drop everything.

00:17:20.000 Because we experienced something together and we went through this together, that that connection will always be there.

00:17:25.900 Yeah, no question about it.

00:17:27.260 I mean, and, you know, in our modern age, by the way, with all the technology we've got, you know, I know a bunch of guys who are executives in a number of cities.

00:17:35.160 They meet, quote unquote, every week by Skype or FaceTime.

00:17:39.020 They talk to each other.

00:17:40.200 They check on each other.

00:17:41.320 And then what they do is they schedule a quarterly day like, you know, at some mountain place or something like that, some cabin.

00:17:47.460 And they really get into each other's lives and play and jog and ski and whatever.

00:17:51.740 But they mainly maintain connection during lunchtime one day a week on Skype.

00:17:56.620 So, in other words, there's a lot of different ways to do it.

00:17:58.420 I know airline pilots who only see each other about once a quarter when they're all in the same airport.

00:18:03.340 But in the meantime, they're checking with each other by text and calling each other.

00:18:06.740 And, you know, if there's one guy who's just said, man, I'm having a hard time with such and such, they're checking with him constantly, sending him encouragement.

00:18:13.820 So there are many, many ways to do it.

00:18:15.400 Some guys can actually look each other in the face.

00:18:17.740 Some guys are all part of, let's say, the same NFL team or the same carpentry crew or whatever.

00:18:22.180 But a lot of guys are spread out like you're talking about.

00:18:24.920 And we can still help each other and still be a band of brothers and then just schedule that, you know, live in the same place time that will be so rich for us.

00:18:32.540 Yeah, it makes total sense.

00:18:33.680 And just to give guys maybe an example of something that's worked for me, one of the things that I've done recently over the past maybe year or two is I've really gotten involved with Spartan races.

00:18:43.060 So I've actually trained with a couple other guys here locally.

00:18:45.980 And for us to be able to go hike or be able to go on a run or hit the gym and then go compete together has been just a great way for us to connect in a masculine way but still have a deep connection on the things that are important to us.

00:18:59.280 Yeah, and that's the issue.

00:19:00.660 Take the things you love.

00:19:01.880 Take the things that connect you with other men and just start to, you know, turn those relationships gently.

00:19:07.380 I play a lot of racquetball.

00:19:08.600 Well, racquetball, especially like if you're a tournament or something, you do a lot of – you play and then you sit and watch other guys while you're sitting with other guys while you watch other guys.

00:19:16.680 And then everybody's going to go out and get something to eat, you know, carbo load or whatever.

00:19:19.900 And so that's a way you can connect.

00:19:22.480 I mean, the main issue here is that this – you have to be intentional about this.

00:19:27.840 In our modern world, no longer do deep, rich male relationships happen automatically.

00:19:33.360 It's very rare.

00:19:34.880 So we have to be intentional and, again, teaching guys the skills of this is going to bring real richness to their lives.

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00:20:37.960 Now let's get back to my interview with Steven.

00:20:40.180 I want to talk about the other side of this, and I'm not sure I could even see a situation where this would happen, but I do want to get it open and out in the air.

00:20:49.420 Has there ever been a situation that either you've experienced or anybody else, any of the men that you're coaching and leading, who have tried to be vulnerable and put themselves out there, and it's backfired in one way or the other?

00:21:01.200 No, not in my group.

00:21:03.220 Not because we're very careful.

00:21:05.260 We really protect each other.

00:21:06.480 We have a couple of guys who are well-known, and so it's very confidential, very supportive.

00:21:11.680 And we lay down a few ground rules.

00:21:13.900 You never ridicule a guy.

00:21:15.660 You can correct him.

00:21:16.620 You can rebuke him.

00:21:17.680 You can chastise him.

00:21:18.660 You can coach him, but you can't just smack him around for having brought something up.

00:21:23.620 So now that takes a little while to get to that level of trust, but as a result, anything can happen.

00:21:28.280 In fact, I don't mind telling you that one of the groups I'm connected to, and I'm not going to get specific here, obviously, but one of the guys had been lying to the dudes and actually was having an affair.

00:21:38.000 Now you can imagine when the guys get together that I'm working with and know, we ask each other about sexual things, food, drugs, alcohol, just check in from time to time, kind of a checklist.

00:21:47.220 And this guy had been lying.

00:21:49.040 So he went out to a house he had in Colorado to hide, and these guys got on a plane and went out there and literally kicked his door in.

00:21:57.540 Oh, my goodness.

00:21:58.180 But then here's what happened.

00:22:00.100 They sat with him for a week, you know, talking to him, getting him to tell him the story, chewing him out.

00:22:05.240 What have you done, you idiot?

00:22:06.380 But stayed there with him, you know, prayed with him, hanged with him, and then went back and, you know, made him tell his family.

00:22:13.560 And the family said, well, we don't trust him.

00:22:15.320 We don't trust dad and husband, but we trust these guys who have been around him for so many years.

00:22:19.620 If they think they can help to fix this, we'll participate.

00:22:22.720 So some of us met with the kids and some of them went with the wife and, you know, worked with the idiot guy they were mad at.

00:22:30.100 But that family is together now because the first phone call the wife had was capable of making was not to the lawyers but to the band of brothers.

00:22:38.120 And so, yeah, so there are things that go wrong.

00:22:41.080 But if you've gotten to genuineness and authenticity and you've got a little track record with each other, almost anything can be overcome.

00:22:47.700 But one of the things you don't ever do is have some guy put his heart out on the table and then the other guys just smack it and ridicule it.

00:22:54.060 And if anything is ever told outside of the group, somebody is going to get a pounding.

00:22:58.860 Yeah, yeah.

00:22:59.720 Sounds like it.

00:23:00.740 So it sounds like also though you guys hang out not only as men but as families, you know, wives, you know, kids, you know, really everything about each other so that you can help each other.

00:23:10.040 Yeah, we hang out as men mainly but one of the rules, not rules, one of the guidelines I've got in building your band of brothers is that you need to get in each other's homes.

00:23:19.540 And that can be as easy to pick up a basketball game in the front and then, you know, a barbecue in the backyard.

00:23:24.560 It can be as easy as a Christmas party or something, whatever, you know.

00:23:27.540 But, yeah, I want my band of brothers to know my son, know my daughter, know my wife.

00:23:32.280 In fact, I tell Bev all the time, Bev's my wife, I tell her and she knows very well, if something goes wrong, if I'm out of town.

00:23:39.460 Because, like, you know, I'm leaving for the Middle East here Monday and she's going to be here in Nashville or I guess we'll be in D.C. then for the next 10 days.

00:23:47.400 Well, if something goes wrong, she knows exactly who to call.

00:23:49.860 It's those guys.

00:23:50.760 Two in the morning, three in the morning, something goes wrong, she knows who to call.

00:23:53.860 Well, why does that happen?

00:23:55.100 That happens because they've been in my home.

00:23:57.380 Whatever takes place, health, money, plumbing, whatever's going on, these guys will get in on it.

00:24:03.140 And so, yeah, you need to be in a guy's home.

00:24:05.140 And I'll tell a story real quickly.

00:24:06.960 I had these guys in my home and one of the big African-American former NFL linemen looked at me and said, you're a fool.

00:24:14.520 You don't know what your son's doing, do you?

00:24:16.340 And that's just how he – that's just he just talking.

00:24:18.120 That's him talking affectionately.

00:24:19.880 He's not mad at me.

00:24:21.240 And I said, no.

00:24:22.020 He said, you mind if I take your son to lunch?

00:24:23.620 I said, no.

00:24:24.200 He went upstairs, kind of pushed the door in, said, you, me, lunch, Monday.

00:24:29.220 Really?

00:24:29.760 Oh, yeah.

00:24:30.100 He just took Jonathan out.

00:24:31.000 My son's name is Jonathan.

00:24:32.160 Took him out.

00:24:32.980 Now, there was something going on with Jonathan.

00:24:35.080 It wasn't any of the big major moral things where I would have insisted on knowing.

00:24:39.400 This guy knew it because he'd been through it.

00:24:42.020 He worked with him.

00:24:43.020 I still to this day don't know what it is.

00:24:45.640 So, see, I don't know that – I want to go around saying it takes a village or something.

00:24:49.720 But I'll tell you what, I do believe that raising a godly family, raising a strong, noble family, raising noble men, I mean, I think that has to be done in teens.

00:24:59.760 So, this guy knew what was going on with my son, whom I loved dearly and I was being as good a father as I knew how to be.

00:25:05.360 He knew stuff I didn't know because he's got perspective I don't have.

00:25:08.620 And he fixed something that would have been debilitating without me even really – I wouldn't have had the skills, I don't think.

00:25:14.160 So, that's the key right there.

00:25:15.900 Yeah, we've got to be in each other's homes so we can help each other, not because we want to spy on them or be camping out in their living room, but just because we want everybody to feel safe and know what's going on here.

00:25:26.300 Very cool.

00:25:27.060 Yeah.

00:25:27.360 You know, what's really interesting is we actually get a lot of this through our small, tight-knit community that we live in.

00:25:32.540 We live in a small town, very spiritual town.

00:25:34.740 So, we get a lot of this stuff through church and the spirituality of just being in this small-knit community.

00:25:40.100 But I can definitely see the power of having somebody to look after in a way mentally, emotionally, physically, your family if you aren't available or you aren't present or you're out of town.

00:25:49.940 So, there's some real value in that definitely.

00:25:51.780 Well, there's huge value in it.

00:25:52.960 I can't tell you what it's meant.

00:25:54.120 But it's not like the Band of Brothers is just to keep you from screwing up.

00:25:58.600 It's also to keep you from being better.

00:26:00.280 Like we've got a guy in our group who is so good with his wife.

00:26:03.800 He's just so – just capable of understanding her and speaking encouraging words and giving gifts and just knowing how to kind of gently coach her.

00:26:12.640 And the rest of us kind of look and go, man, you've got to teach us how to do that.

00:26:16.940 Sure.

00:26:17.280 So, we'll get him to talk to it.

00:26:18.940 Now, you've got to understand we're sitting at a steakhouse or something, man.

00:26:21.640 We're sitting up watching a football game.

00:26:23.480 I mean, we are not sitting in a group of chairs in some empty room.

00:26:26.880 And we're, you know, we're just hanging.

00:26:29.280 But we're painting a house or something for some single mom we know.

00:26:33.200 I mean, you know, whatever.

00:26:34.620 But that's – somebody's talking away and making us better.

00:26:37.520 I want to say one other thing, too, real quickly.

00:26:39.420 And by the way, this is not just about, you know, family and my own manhood.

00:26:43.660 This is also about business.

00:26:45.360 You know, I am better.

00:26:46.620 I am more successful because I have these men saying to me things that makes me better in every area.

00:26:53.880 One guy said a long time ago, he said, you know, I just feel like I bore you sometimes.

00:26:59.760 And I thought, how in the world?

00:27:02.240 What are you talking about?

00:27:03.720 And when he said that, it was kind of hurt by my manner with him.

00:27:08.220 I realized that when I'm thinking about things, I tend to look away from people.

00:27:11.820 I can drift off in my mind because I'm kind of intellectual.

00:27:14.760 And, you know, and I thought, oh, that's the last thing I want to do is send the signal that he's boring me.

00:27:19.760 So, I really worked on those things.

00:27:21.460 Well, it made me better with my staff.

00:27:23.280 It made me better in leadership.

00:27:24.880 It made me better in working with men.

00:27:26.820 You understand what I'm saying?

00:27:27.780 It just made me better in my profession that he was saying at a personal level.

00:27:32.520 I get the impression I just bore the heck out of you.

00:27:35.320 So, in other words, this is improvement in every area.

00:27:37.860 And I'll tell you, I can't put a dollar sign on it.

00:27:40.080 But just what got hammered out amongst us over a steak or over a burger has made me more successful in business.

00:27:47.220 And I think every guy there would say the same thing.

00:27:49.220 Because, you know, when you're better as a human being, you're going to be better in every area of your life.

00:27:54.880 Yeah.

00:27:55.000 I mean, we talk about this a lot.

00:27:56.140 You can't make decisions or choices or actions in a vacuum.

00:27:58.880 I mean, the way you do one thing is the way you do everything.

00:28:00.840 And if you improve in this area, you're naturally going to improve in that area.

00:28:03.480 So, I completely understand that.

00:28:04.960 Exactly.

00:28:06.160 You talk about this skill of bringing guys together.

00:28:09.300 What does this look like tactically?

00:28:10.900 What are some of the skills?

00:28:11.940 What are some of the things that we as men need to develop in order to successfully pull this off?

00:28:17.500 Well, of course, be aware you've got to be intentional.

00:28:19.480 It's not going to happen accidentally.

00:28:21.160 You know, literally sometimes when I've got guys on a retreat or something, I'll say, look, make a list of the guys you call your best friends.

00:28:26.820 Make a list.

00:28:27.380 Now, some guys get depressed when that happens.

00:28:29.360 They've got like two people on their list.

00:28:30.960 Some guys have got 50.

00:28:32.700 That's probably not really real.

00:28:34.280 You know, and then, you know, I say, look, even the shyest guy in the room can, you know, ask guys to come over to watch the Grammys or the Oscars or the Super Bowl or a football game or whatever.

00:28:46.220 I mean, just put something together and ask four or five guys to come over.

00:28:51.160 You know, just script something and don't try to go deep the first night.

00:28:54.600 Just get to know people and kind of see who you relate to and who you connect with.

00:28:58.400 And so, you know, I'll actually get real practical and talk about all the different ways that can happen.

00:29:02.960 You know, like some of the younger guys who are doing this, you know, let's say 18 to 25-year-olds, they're like doing drum circles, you know, and getting together for what they call picking parties in Nashville.

00:29:14.500 You know, they've all got their guitars and their mandolins and their bass and all that stuff.

00:29:18.020 Interesting.

00:29:18.340 And so I'm just saying anything's fine.

00:29:21.220 In fact, you know, you can have a band of brothers where half of what you're doing is playing music together.

00:29:25.040 That's fantastic.

00:29:26.360 Some of the special forces guys I work with in the military, they run marathons a couple times a week and jump out of planes and, you know, go shooting and all that kind of stuff.

00:29:35.300 So there's every kind of activity, but find what's fitting for you.

00:29:39.020 For me, it's racquetball.

00:29:40.440 It's movies.

00:29:41.040 It's, you know, maybe a little travel.

00:29:43.660 For other guys, it's different stuff, but just do things that give men an opportunity to have an indirect connection.

00:29:50.940 And then as relationships of any kind of, you know, depth or not so much depth, but just fun maybe come together, you know, hand a guy a book and say, hey, look at this and tell me what you think.

00:30:01.220 Or, you know, or ask him a question about something that he does well and ask him if he'll help you and just start turning those friendships.

00:30:07.440 I know it sounds like we're, you know, amping up to sell Amway or something here, but all I'm trying to do is get you to have some deeper friendships.

00:30:13.460 And then in time, some of these guys, not all of them, but some of these guys are going to say, you know, I didn't have much of a dad and manhood for me has always been about muscles and sex.

00:30:22.460 And so I'm intrigued by what that book you gave me.

00:30:24.840 Let's talk about it next time we get a bite to eat.

00:30:26.680 And boom, you're down the road.

00:30:27.860 Now it starts happening.

00:30:29.360 Get three or four guys talking like that over pizza and you're good.

00:30:32.680 Now, I know a lot of guys, and I've had this question quite a bit, is how do you remove negativity or negative people from your circle or from your life?

00:30:42.300 Because a lot of the times I hear guys like my brother or my dad or my friend, you know, and they're already in their quote unquote circle and they know they need to get out of that situation.

00:30:51.420 Any recommendations there?

00:30:53.260 Yeah, I think we've got to be real intentional about our friendships and our connections.

00:30:56.260 And I think that, you know, disassociating from toxic people, you know, checking people who just are constantly bitter and constantly want to, you know, use you as a garbage pail for the troubles they've got.

00:31:08.400 I mean, I know we want to help people.

00:31:09.820 I know we want to be compassionate.

00:31:11.260 But I think you've just got to be real intentional about it.

00:31:13.340 So, you know, in our group, we manage it pretty closely.

00:31:15.860 We let other guys in, you know, we put our arms around them and then we'll say, you know, it might be good for you to pull together some other guys.

00:31:21.040 You know, this isn't really going to work for you.

00:31:22.440 Or, you know, I think there's guys who are maybe more where you are on some things and, you know, you just you just shoot straight.

00:31:27.980 I mean, it's not a club.

00:31:28.860 We don't have a decoder ring, but we but we do believe that, you know, you've got to manage these things and the chemistry has to be right.

00:31:34.960 So, you know, it's not some exclusive club, but it is it is something where you where you don't want to let toxicity in and you do want to make sure that the relationships are, you know, conducive to the kind of processing you need to do.

00:31:45.840 Yeah. And I found that even just naturally distancing yourself and and and having another outlet that maybe doesn't include whoever that toxic person might be just naturally takes care of the problem itself as well.

00:31:57.840 Yeah. And I and I have a number of times in my life and even helping guys work with their groups gone to a guy and said, buddy, these guys are trying to be good men.

00:32:07.020 And you have got some deep wounds because you were sexually abused when you were a child.

00:32:11.700 And I appreciate you sharing that. But let me urge you get some help first that will bring you to the level where you can receive from these guys, because it's as though we're over here trying to learn how to, you know, maybe fish better.

00:32:26.060 And you're out there in the middle of the lake drowning. And so you can't really relate.

00:32:29.940 And so let me let me let me help you hook up with some people who can help you.

00:32:34.220 And, you know, again, he everybody I've ever done that with was so grateful that I was honest.

00:32:39.420 You know, you you are you are desperate like a drowning guy and you're just grasping at people to keep just to stay alive.

00:32:45.680 But that's not how a group like this works. You're a bit more desperate situation than most of them.

00:32:49.980 Let me send you to some help and I'll and I'll check up on you from time to time, get you something to eat.

00:32:54.580 We'll talk about it. And they love that. They love that.

00:32:56.920 But the problem is, and, you know, this is a major issue you and I could talk about for hours.

00:33:01.380 Most guys are not used to being honest with each other and just just being straight up honest.

00:33:07.460 And I, you know, if we're in the south, we got that southern manners thing where we don't want to hurt anybody or say anything harsh.

00:33:13.220 And if we're in the north, we don't want to get too personal.

00:33:15.160 And if we're out west, we don't want to talk about emotional stuff because we're rugged individuals.

00:33:19.080 And I appreciate all of those cultures.

00:33:21.540 But we've got to get to the point of a free fire zone.

00:33:24.920 And I have never smacked into anybody hard, buddy, you got to get help.

00:33:29.240 We cannot provide. Let me help you or whatever it is.

00:33:31.860 I've never slammed into anybody to help them that they didn't appreciate it and that it didn't make a big difference.

00:33:37.000 And so it's not like, you know, my job is to go around correcting and rebuking guys.

00:33:41.300 But I will certainly say what needs to be said to a guy, just like I expect him to do the same with me to help him be better.

00:33:48.240 And a lot of lies have been put back together because of not just me, but the guys around me just having kind of a, hey, if you're hanging with me, you're going to hear the truth.

00:33:57.080 And then we're going to go to bite to eat and have fun.

00:33:58.940 But don't think you're going to come here to hide from the stuff that's tearing up your life.

00:34:02.680 Well, and I imagine when you do that, you actually give permission for others to do the same, which is what you're looking for in a friendship anyways, it sounds like.

00:34:08.980 Absolutely.

00:34:09.860 Listen, I want to be a better man.

00:34:11.300 I want to be better in every way.

00:34:12.600 So, you know, the illustration I use in the book is not long ago I went to a party and a guy took a picture.

00:34:18.600 Later he handed me that picture and I said, who is that?

00:34:21.000 He said, it's you, fool.

00:34:22.100 And, you know, this is my favorite illustration because I was scrunched down in a chair.

00:34:28.140 My T-shirt was stretched over my belly.

00:34:30.400 I think I had nine Oreos in my mouth.

00:34:32.980 My face was slack.

00:34:34.040 I just looked like Jabba the Hutt.

00:34:35.520 Well, my conclusion was, man, if I don't even know what I look like physically at times, how much do I not know what I look like internally?

00:34:42.440 So I can't tell you how much understanding and insight has come to me because these guys say, well, dude, here's what you feel like to me.

00:34:50.080 Here's what it's like to be with you at these moments.

00:34:52.300 You know, and all that kind of stuff.

00:34:53.720 And it's so good for me.

00:34:54.980 These guys are so down to earth, you know, and to be frank, I'm no big deal, but I'm on stage and television a lot.

00:35:00.580 And so, you know, I can maybe get the big head or start getting disconnected from who I am.

00:35:04.380 And these guys are like, dude, I love you, but I am not afraid of you.

00:35:07.660 I am not impressed with you.

00:35:09.560 And so, you know, these guys are great.

00:35:11.900 And we help each other.

00:35:13.220 Some of them are successful.

00:35:14.200 Some of them are well-known.

00:35:15.240 Some of them are super smart, much smarter than the rest of us, whatever.

00:35:18.600 Some of them are wealthy who aren't known.

00:35:20.180 But the point is that anything that needs to be said to make a man better will be said no matter, you know, what other power or strengths he's got.

00:35:28.500 And, of course, there are a couple of guys in the room that can beat us all up.

00:35:30.740 But that's not the level at which we're playing this game.

00:35:32.980 Sure.

00:35:34.140 Well, it sounds like the difference to me with what you're talking about here is that even though you're having difficult conversations, you're saying what needs to be said, you're coming from a position of respect and love and care as opposed to hate or despise or anything else that might be negatively.

00:35:47.480 That's the entire context, man.

00:35:49.020 We are – we're here to make you better.

00:35:51.180 And by the way, we'll be here tomorrow.

00:35:52.620 You know, that's one of the issues we've got to think about here.

00:35:54.280 If some guy wants to jack me up because of, you know, who knows, my manners at the table or something, he's welcome to, but he better be committed to making me better.

00:36:02.460 In other words, don't just chew me out and walk away.

00:36:04.700 So that's the issue with the band of brothers.

00:36:06.800 We've walked with each other.

00:36:08.320 We've helped each other.

00:36:09.460 We're reading maybe some of the same things.

00:36:11.200 We've had tough conversations.

00:36:12.680 We know about a little bit of each other's background.

00:36:14.920 We like each other.

00:36:15.880 We play.

00:36:16.400 We have fun.

00:36:17.020 But if one of my guys says, Mansfield, I'm telling you, you are just dropping the F-bomb way too much or what is the deal with Oreos and you, man?

00:36:24.960 You've got a serious addiction or whatever it is.

00:36:26.860 I'm just making stuff up now.

00:36:27.940 But whatever it is, what I know is he loves me, cares about me.

00:36:31.660 He's going to be there tomorrow to help me deal with whatever it is he's identified.

00:36:35.400 He's not just getting joy out of smacking me around.

00:36:38.220 And so once you build that safe culture, the important things come to the surface and they're dealt with redemptively.

00:36:43.980 You bring up a really interesting point.

00:36:45.640 Especially with culture not being or even understanding or knowing how to deal with when people are being truthful with you.

00:36:52.700 I've got a really close friend of mine and when I very first met him, I thought he was one of the most abrasive people that I had ever met.

00:37:01.180 And as I got to learn and know him, I could see that as abrasive as maybe it came across, everything that he said to me was dead on and he did it from a position of wanting me to improve.

00:37:11.900 So I imagine – and I want to talk with you about this briefly – that we need to be very careful of being offended when we're building this because it will turn people off to what you're actually looking for, correct?

00:37:23.760 Exactly.

00:37:24.600 When you have this free fire zone, what you've got to do is turn off your offense syndrome.

00:37:28.600 You've given men permission, in essence, to say what needs to be said.

00:37:33.140 Now, that doesn't mean we can't coach a guy in being gentler.

00:37:35.740 We've got a guy in our group who's just all – former football, Hall of Famer, all that kind of stuff.

00:37:41.580 And he could be really rough when he brought something up.

00:37:45.220 And so that was an area where we had to coach him.

00:37:47.480 And, hey, hey, you know what?

00:37:48.780 There's a better way for you to say that because the way you're saying it is just confrontational, like you're saying it across the line at the Super Bowl, talking smack about some guy's sister or something.

00:37:58.780 And so why don't you gentle up?

00:38:00.920 And let me show you a better way to say this.

00:38:02.580 And so he took that from me, whereas I've taken many things from him.

00:38:06.080 Now he's even more effective because he's learned he doesn't have to talk to me like an angry coach.

00:38:09.900 And so, yes, you want to turn off the offense sensors that we have and be open to each other.

00:38:16.580 It doesn't mean, though, that we can't help a guy say things and be confrontive in a way that's more effective.

00:38:22.720 It makes sense.

00:38:23.640 Well, Stephen, I could talk about this stuff with you all day.

00:38:25.420 I really always enjoy our conversations.

00:38:27.480 But, guys, at the end of the day, just go out, buy the book, learn how to build this, start implementing it.

00:38:31.220 I think that's the most important thing.

00:38:32.280 Just go out and implement the practices Stephen's talking about.

00:38:34.740 Obviously, you're doing this in your life.

00:38:36.940 And so it's pretty cool to be able to emulate and extract some of that information from you.

00:38:40.360 As we wind down, I do want to ask you a couple of questions.

00:38:42.940 I've already asked you this question before, and obviously we're talking a lot about this anyways.

00:38:46.460 But the question is, what does it mean to be a man?

00:38:49.340 To be a man, I believe, first of all, means living for the glory of God in my case, in my understanding.

00:38:54.800 But also, as you do that, you are owning yourself.

00:38:58.200 You are tending the field assigned to you.

00:39:00.480 You are taking responsibility for the things that you have been given in life.

00:39:04.820 You're helping everything within that field.

00:39:06.940 Grow and come into its destiny and fulfill its purpose.

00:39:10.320 And you are living out the full glory of what it means to be a man in league with other men.

00:39:16.640 And I think changing lives in the process.

00:39:19.300 Love it.

00:39:19.760 What's the best way to connect with you or pick up the book?

00:39:22.340 Yeah, stephenmansfield.tv.

00:39:24.280 The e-book is available on Amazon, or you can get it through our website.

00:39:28.100 The paper books are only available at – well, actually, you can get them too by just going on our social media.

00:39:33.220 Twitter, at MansfieldWrites.

00:39:35.380 And again, stephenmansfield.tv.

00:39:37.180 You'll see what we're doing.

00:39:38.020 You'll see links for buying the book.

00:39:39.600 And it's really getting out there and touching some lives.

00:39:42.320 So jump in with us.

00:39:43.860 Awesome.

00:39:44.340 Good, guys.

00:39:44.860 Get on it.

00:39:45.340 You heard it here.

00:39:46.280 Hey, just, Stephen, I want to tell you I appreciate you.

00:39:48.620 I've followed your work.

00:39:49.820 I've followed you and what you do.

00:39:51.040 I've read your books.

00:39:52.380 And you have had a definite impact on me individually.

00:39:56.040 So I want to thank you for that.

00:39:57.160 And I want to thank you for imparting some of your wisdom with us today.

00:39:59.320 Well, man, thanks for having me.

00:40:00.300 And I'm so proud of what you're doing.

00:40:01.500 So keep rocking.

00:40:03.900 There you have it, guys.

00:40:04.680 Mr. Stephen Mansfield sharing with us what it takes to build your own band of brothers.

00:40:09.000 It's one thing to sit here and talk about it.

00:40:11.020 It's another thing entirely to go out and practice what you've learned.

00:40:13.620 I'm focusing on building my own personal band of brothers this week.

00:40:16.820 And I encourage you to be as well.

00:40:18.520 I didn't mention this today yet, but we do have an online band of brothers.

00:40:22.160 It's our elite mastermind, The Iron Council.

00:40:24.120 And it's comprised of over 100 men, all working to be the very best versions of themselves and

00:40:29.620 committed to helping you succeed.

00:40:31.440 You can check more of the details out on that at orderofman.com slash ironcouncil.

00:40:35.640 Guys, I look forward to talking to you on Friday.

00:40:37.240 But until then, take action and become the man you were meant to be.

00:40:41.200 Thank you for listening to The Order of Man podcast.

00:40:44.200 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

00:40:47.860 We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - August 30, 2016

OoM 076： Building Your Band of Brothers with Stephen Mansfield

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