OoM 077： Strength and Power in Kettlebell Training with Jon Mills
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Summary
Master Kettlebell Instructor, John Mills, talks with Ryan about the good, the bad, and the ugly behind this big hunk of metal we call a kettlebell. We talk about the benefits, the movements, the pitfalls, and how you can use kettlebells to up your exercise regimen.
Transcript
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The kettlebell, you've heard of it, perhaps you've even used it a little, but I bet you have no idea
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how versatile these things can actually be. My guest today, master kettlebell instructor John
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Mills, talks with me about the good, the bad, and the ugly behind this big hunk of metal we call a
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kettlebell. We talk about the benefits, the movements, the pitfalls, and how you can use
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kettlebells to up your exercise regimen. You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest,
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embrace your fears, and boldly chart your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up
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one more time, every time. You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.
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This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day,
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and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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Men, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am your host and the founder of
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Order of Man. As always, I am glad that you're here with us today. We are always talking about
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everything manly on this show. Stronger leadership, being a more connected father,
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and a husband, being a better business owner. At the end of the day, we just want you to be a
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better man. That's what we're all about on the Order of Man podcast. Today, we're going to be
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talking about one of my favorite pieces of exercise equipment and how versatile this thing can actually
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be. Now, I was a little worried as I was considering even recording this podcast because I wasn't sure
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if we could actually fill an entire show with information on kettlebells alone. But this one is
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actually really, really enlightening as we talk not only about kettlebells, but how to succeed in life
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in general. So before we get too much into it today, I want you to know that you can get all
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of the show notes for this show at orderofman.com slash 077. And second, make sure that if you haven't
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already, that you join our closed men's Facebook group with over 7,000 men. Now guys, 7,000 resources
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for you to become a better man at facebook.com slash groups slash order of man. Now I want to introduce
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you to my guest today, John Mills. He is a strength and conditioning coach and a master kettlebell
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instructor based in Canada with a competitive swimming and soccer background. He's got 10 plus years
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coaching experience in the fitness industry and a bachelor's in sports science. John has helped
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hundreds of clients from all walks of life build stronger bodies and minds. At 37, John won his debut
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natural men's physique competition and a pro card. He documented the entire contest prep process to show
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what it takes to win without sacrificing your health, which can be found at peakphysiquefilm.com.
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John, what's going on, man? Thanks for joining me on the show today.
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How are you doing, Ryan? It's a pleasure to be here and with your listeners.
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Yeah. So we're going to jump right into this because it is an important topic and one that
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I've actually addressed over the past couple of years. We're going to talk about kettlebell training
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specifically. And I'd like to hear from you, what are the benefits of training with kettlebells?
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I mean, kettlebells are amazing tool. I'm an ex-athlete. So when I started working in the gym,
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I got very bored of your samey weights, you know, bodybuilding, just the split training,
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you can target your full body, hit the central nervous system. They travel anywhere with you.
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Great for core strength and, um, and readdressing any posterior issues. There's just a fantastic tool
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to really blitz the full body. It seems to me a little bit when I've used kettlebells that
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it is actually limiting, but the more I understand, the more I learn, the more I hear from guys like
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yourself, it's actually not. So I'm really curious about the variety of workouts that you can do
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with kettlebell training. Can you get into some of that?
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Yeah. I mean, it's a real discipline. So when you first start out, there's only a few movements
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that you really can grasp. You know, the kettlebell swing is the basic movement. That's
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going to generate the power through the hips. A lot of people actually, you know, use them wrong,
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use the upper body because when we're given a heavy weight in our hand, naturally the body wants
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to use the upper body to control that weight. So we have to retrain the body to use the big
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core stabilizing muscles, you know, the, uh, the legs, the glutes, the, um, the core. So,
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you know, we, we can really utilize every part of our body. You know, you can, you can target your
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chest. You can use during a snatch, you can, uh, drive through your hips, use your core and you
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stabilize using your shoulder and your triceps. You can use your full body for one movement.
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So just one exercise. So do you use kettlebells exclusively at this point,
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or are you doing other things? I went through a phase of wanting to master it. So I spent,
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you know, my mentor at the time told me that to master something, obviously you have to have the
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bell in your hand every day. So I did that for six years and I still pick up the bell, you know,
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three or four times a week. So not solely, I now use it as a part of my full program. It's a great
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way to, you know, to target the posterior chain and anybody that does the big lifts, you know,
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the squats, the deadlifts, it really does help recruit that posterior chain and help work with
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those, those movements as well. So especially the kettlebell swing, it's a really good movement
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for everyone. How do you train your body to use the muscles they should be? Because I imagine even
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when I started and I, and I use, usually I use for like kettlebell swings, a 53 pound kettlebell,
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but when I started, it was a lot lighter than that. But I know, and I can feel, especially when I
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started that I was using my back only, obviously, I think that's what you're talking about. How do you
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retrain to use different and target different areas of the body? You break each movement down
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and take it back to basics. So I wouldn't just hand you the bell straight away. We, you know,
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we start to work on the floor. We work on rooting through the feet, creating that mind muscle
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connection, understanding the position of a hinge, because generally most people will fall into a
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squat when they're trying to hinge. And that's where the power is coming from for that swing, for
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example. And then obviously through repetition and coaching, and you would have noticed if you,
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as soon as you fix one thing with the bell, something else tends to go south. And you know,
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your central nervous system is being, and peripheral nervous system is being overloaded.
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So you already have to focus on one key, you know, point at a time. And as you say, like throughout
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time, it becomes much more uniform than a lot, you know, a lot easier and a lot more functional
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for your body to use the bell. But it is something that a lot of people struggle with. And, you know,
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like anything in life, generally when things are really, really hard to learn, they're the most rewarding
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when you get to the, you know, to that end goal. But some people get a little frustrated and,
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you know, they just want to go back to normal weights, right? Because it's quite tough.
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Well, they probably go back to normal weights or they revert back to doing it incorrectly and then
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run the risk of it not working at best and at worst injuring themselves.
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Absolutely. And I see a lot of really poor technique out there. And unfortunately, so I try and correct
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it where I can, because obviously the body, you will use the stronger part of the body. So if you're not,
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if you haven't been taught properly, it's not your fault, right? It just means your body is adapting
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and trying to use the part that is stronger. And what we have to do is identify the weak spots and
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the bell really does that well. And then that will train those weak spots and actually make you a much
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more solid and much more functional unit. So I am actually going to go back on one of the things
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you said is you said it's not your fault. And I am going to disagree with that a little bit. If you
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don't figure out how to do this correctly, it is your fault because we've got guys like you and
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we've got trainers and we've got coaches and we've got information and it's on us to learn that
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information correctly so that we don't do harm to our bodies. It's very true. But there are a lot of people
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out there teaching the bell. And if you, you know, if you're going to learn how to use the bell,
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you assume that because someone has a certificate, they know how to break it down properly and teach
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it. But that isn't necessarily the case in my experience. A lot of the certifications out there
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teach people how to use it, but I don't teach people how to, you know, how to first master it and
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then go on to teach it. It's very different, you know, knowing how to use the bell and teach the
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bell are two different things. So I agree with you. It's, you know, it's up to you to go and find
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the best coach you can and to, you know, train yourself until you really do understand how to
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use the tool, you know, to its entirety. But, you know, it's hard out there for people, you know,
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it is tough because, you know, in our industry, just because someone has a certificate doesn't
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mean they know they may be the best people to teach you.
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Sure. Yeah. That's, that's actually a good point. That's a really interesting perspective
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and one that I didn't consider. I look at a lot of these, you know, you can go get a certificate
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for whatever it may be over the weekend and not really be an expert at it and then,
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and then get back into your regular ordinary day life. And then all of a sudden you're teaching
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people how to do this and that creates some problems, obviously.
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Yeah, no, I mean, that's the issue I have with kettlebells because I'm so, you know, I love them.
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They're a great tool, but so passionate about teaching them properly. I definitely don't
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fast track people. It's, you know, it's, it's something that we learn from grassroots all the
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way up. I'm going to release a kettlebell cert later next year with my, my wife. And, uh, the way that
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we will run the course will be very, very different. It'll be staggered. So there'll be a period of time
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where people go off and learn how to master the bell. Then they'll come back and get it. They'll
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have an examination on that purely, and then we'll break it down into teaching and then have an
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examination on how to teach as well. I like that. This actually sounds like going back to breaking
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it down to the basics, which I love. That's such an amazing concept. It actually sounds a lot like
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my golf swing. You know, if you, if you correct one area, it tweaks your back or tweaks your stance or
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tweaks your grip, and then it messes something else up. So I can see why you want to build on that
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foundation. Absolutely. Yeah. It's really important. So where did the kettlebell come
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from? Even I imagine that at some point, this was probably a thousand years ago, a practical
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exercise or people were throwing rocks or boulders over their head. Where did it come from?
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Believe it or not, it's the Russians. They invented it. It's been, it's been around since the 1800s,
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I believe. Uh, and it was their, it was their original gym. Um, so they mastered how to use it.
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They used to use it as, again, it's very versatile. You can take it anywhere as long as you can carry them.
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Right. And I think it was, uh, the Russian army that were original, the originators of the bell.
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Um, so they put their army, uh, through strenuous workouts with a bell. And then it got brought over
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by a guy called Pavel in, um, the early nineties into the USA. And then, um, and then it just,
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it's become pretty big over the last, you know, 20 years.
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Sure. Yeah. And it seems like it's gaining more and more traction. I'm so I'm familiar with,
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I think it's, would be the, like a Russian kettlebell swing, which maybe is not all the way up.
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Is that right? And then we've got the traditional kettlebell swing. And then I think they're called
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Turkish getups. Those are the few that I'm really familiar with. Am I right on those things? And
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Well, the fundamental movement is the kettlebell swing. And the way it should be taught is, uh,
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you finish the bell swing at shoulder height, but the Americans, um, in CrossFit, they,
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they changed it around a little bit and they, they now finish above the head. So they changed it a
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little, but the traditional way is, uh, the swing finishes at a shoulder height. And then obviously you have
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your, your main movements, single swings, uh, snatches, cleans. And then obviously, you know,
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you, you spoke about the windmill and the Turkish getup. They, they, they are grinding drills. They,
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they, they, they're really good for your full body, uh, core strength as well as mobility. So
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they're, they're fantastic, uh, but they're less ballistic. They're more controlled, uh, and they hit
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the whole, the whole system, the whole quarter TVA. So they're great movements.
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Yeah. That Turkish getup and I'll have to post a video. Maybe you have a video you can share with
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me and we can make it available on the show notes, but it's an interesting move and it actually tosses
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me around. I feel like the bell's controlling me more than I'm controlling it. And that's just
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practice, my friend. That just takes time. Uh, it really does. You know, you've noticed that as
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soon as the wrist, uh, starts to move, uh, then the whole movement changes. So really it starts with,
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with where you root your body. So obviously your feet, your hands, where they are nice and solid,
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your core's got to be solid, but then that wrist needs to be straight. And as soon as it starts to
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move, it changes because it's an unstable weight, right? So as you're moving, the weight's moving
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against you. So you're fighting inertia all the way through the movement.
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Well, and I imagine that's the, the benefit of using kettlebells in the first place is that,
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like you said, it's unstable. It's, it's, you've got to control it. You've got to maintain it,
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which uses your entire body versus a, uh, a bar or maybe even a dumbbell to some degree,
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Absolutely. You're having to use all your internal stabilizers. And as soon as you move through a
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movement, uh, those, then you get changed the angle of, you know, the angle of which the weight
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is, uh, it's responding to the actual, the arm or the, or the wrist changes. So you have to adapt
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with the bell, which is why it's such a great tool. And I love it so much.
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So what's your background? I mean, it sounds like you at one point got into this, but haven't always
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been doing this. So, so tell me a little bit about that.
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I mean, I was a competitive swimmer when I was younger. So I, I was an athlete for my younger years
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and a, and a soccer player, um, lost my way, had a few dark, dark years. We don't have to go into
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it, but you know, and I was given a second chance at life. So, you know, I lost my way in the,
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in the athletic world. And then I really, really found a purpose. You know, I really decided I
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wanted to try and help people, you know, help people change their lives. And I was very passionate
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about training, got back into training, joined the gym, became a trainer, but I was really bored with
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the conventional weights. You know, I was, I really love to push myself to new limits. You know,
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I really love to push myself, get sway and work hard. And I saw someone using the bell and I was
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like, well, that looks tough. I should give that a go. And I was terrible at it to begin with. I was
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actually shocking. I went on a course and it was still really hard. And then I met my mentor,
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Angie Dowds, and she had a whole system, a certification system that she put me through eventually. And I was
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the first person in her system to become a master trainer. And I just spent year after year after year,
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day in, day out, just trying to master it. And again, you know, I have, you know, I say I'm a
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master trainer, but you're always learning. The bell doesn't take any prisons, that's for sure.
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So I just, I just love training. I love pushing my body and trying to reach new goals.
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What was the catalyst for change? I mean, you said you went through a dark time. The guys that
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have listened to this podcast for any amount of time know a little bit about my backstory and every,
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every man out there that's listening to this show and every man on the planet has gone through
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something, right? We've all gone through difficult things. How were you able to change this around for
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yourself? I mean, I was given a second chance, right? And then I think when you've been in that
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position, you have to really look inside yourself and work out who you are. So I did that. I did some
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really, you know, some, you know, ask myself some really big questions. I didn't like most people
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didn't know what my purpose was. So, you know, I had to go and I went, I went traveling, I went to
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Thailand and through that experience, I really decided I needed to get back into fitness and I wanted to
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help other people that had maybe been through similar things. And I wanted to inspire people. And I also
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wanted to, you know, be the best version of myself and, you know, be a role model to everyone around
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me. So that really inspired me to make a difference. And I started working as a trainer and I really
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realized that, you know, I can help people and I do, and I love it. I help people every day.
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And I think sharing our stories is so important because there's so many people out there that
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suffer in silence and they will look at me or you, you know, you know, you're very successful.
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I'm successful now. I'm married to a beautiful, my beautiful wife and I have a successful career.
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And they may just think that we've never had a dark day in our lives and that, you know, that everything's
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just been rosy for us. But when we tell our story, it gives people hope because we can relate and you
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can literally achieve anything you want to. As long as you set your mind to it and you have a good support
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network around you, you know, that journey is going to really, really hold you in good stead.
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That experience you had is really going to help you in the long run.
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What are some of the changes that you're seeing in the clients that you're working with?
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I've been on a health journey over the past three years or so, and I've seen huge changes in my life,
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but I'm really curious what you're experiencing and what your clients are, because I think this
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is going to be motivating for the guys that are listening that want to get off the couch and get
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into the gym. Yeah, I think, um, I mean, like obviously we work with different clients. So I have
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clients that are, you know, are athletes that their goal is to get into a triple A hockey or get our
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triple A hockey into, into the big leagues or somebody who's been struggling with obesity for most of their
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adult life and really wants to make a change for their family and needs to, needs to literally save
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their own lives. Um, and so the way you work with each individual is very, very different,
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but having had the experience that I've had and the experiences I've had, it makes you more
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empathetic understanding and able to actually reach inside and find out what's really motivating
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that purpose, that person. I mean, they really need to have a purpose, a real good reason why they're
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trying to make these changes, you know, not aesthetics isn't, isn't quite good enough,
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right? Just because they want to change their bodies. You know, somebody's why is so important
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and trying to find out what that is that's motivating somebody to help, you know, help them
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through the process is so, so important in my job. So I've seen some very strong quote unquote
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wise, and I've seen some very weak quote unquote wise. What are some of the strongest wise that you're
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seeing from, from guys who were able to maintain their fitness goals? Because it's very easy to go into
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the gym this week or tomorrow and do it once or do it twice. But to maintain that over 30 days,
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over 365 days, over 3000 days is difficult to do. What are these guys using as their motivation to do
00:16:15.320
that? Everyone's different, right? But like, for example, I, you know, a client of mine who's obese,
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for example, you know, and, um, and, and has type two diabetes to two kids. She, she has no,
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she has no choice. If she wants to be around, she's been told she wants to be around for the next two
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birthdays of her children. Then she has to make that change. And that's, that's what motivate,
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that's what motivates her is that thought that she wouldn't be around. Um, somebody who's,
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you know, competing in a show that, you know, for, for example, for me, I just competed in my first
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bodybuilding show, uh, and I documented the whole thing. And my why was that I wanted to help people
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I'd better understand their bodies and stop and not take shortcuts and understand there's a healthy way
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to a healthier way to show prep, because I saw a lot of people that, that weren't doing it the
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correct way, uh, or didn't have the good education. So my wife for that was trying to create something
00:17:03.960
and build something that gave them the information they needed to make better choices. But within
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that, I actually found my year and athlete again, and I reignited a passion on a, of a competitive
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nature and I really wanted to win. So it's your, why can change through the process, but your initial
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why there has to be a passionate and emotional attachment to the goal. Yeah. And it sounds like the
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common thread between your client that you just mentioned, even yourself is really
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unemotional. Why you've got to be emotionally attached to that thing. And it's got to be
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internal as well. If it's an external motivation or somebody telling you, you need to do something
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or you should be this way, that's probably not going to last. It's fleeting for sure.
00:17:39.480
One hundred percent. Yeah. And you need to have that emotional connection. Plus also, you know,
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like any big goal and you've, you've done some amazing things in the past as well. Right.
00:17:47.260
You know, that's the 60 hour Spartan, um, was it, was it, was it called?
00:17:53.220
I don't want to pronounce it right. Yeah. I mean, that's amazing. Right. But if you were to look at that
00:17:56.500
at its entirety at the beginning, you would have, you know, if you look at the goal, it's like a
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mountain. So it's like, you have to break it down into smaller bits, bite-sized pieces and take each
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day at a time and your training and your regime. And then all of a sudden the unthinkable is
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manageable. You know, you can, you can actually attain it. If you were just to look at that
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mountain, it's, it's hard to, it's hard to imagine climbing it. Right.
00:18:16.760
Man, I just wanted to take a quick mid podcast break to tell you about the order of man store.
00:18:21.680
I'm excited about this. We just launched it this week and we just stocked up on our much
00:18:25.500
anticipated order of man decals. We've got some other things in the works so you can show your
00:18:29.800
support for the show and let people know that you are an official member of the order of man.
00:18:34.120
We've got shirts coming in later this week. We've got hats on the way. We've got leather bound
00:18:37.820
journals coming in the next couple of weeks. And again, our decals are ready for you. So if you're
00:18:42.480
a fan of the show and you want to let people know just how manly you are, you need to head to
00:18:47.320
order of man.com slash store to pick up your gear. Now let's get back to my conversation with John.
00:18:52.540
Yeah, this makes sense. I mean, with these bite size, just foundational, we actually had a
00:18:57.960
conversation in our mastermind group today about this. What I hear a lot, I'm a financial advisor
00:19:02.120
by trade is people won't get started with wealth building. And I imagine that it's the same way
00:19:06.280
with fitness because they're not at the level today that they hope they would be or want to be.
00:19:11.160
So they don't even get started rather than just starting small. And I think this is the benefit
00:19:15.140
in my experience of kettlebells is that you can scale it. You can start somewhere and build to what
00:19:20.320
you're trying to accomplish for yourself. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like it's a discipline,
00:19:23.960
like any discipline, you have to start at the beginning and there's a middle and there's an
00:19:28.120
end game. And you have to do the basics very, very well. You know, set daily and weekly goals
00:19:34.160
and the same in your business as well. When you're advising your clients, I'm sure you do the same.
00:19:38.180
You don't, you know, they're not going to get, you know, where they need to get in a year.
00:19:43.120
It's going to take them a period of time, right? So set daily and weekly, monthly goals
00:19:47.160
and have short-term and long-term goals, you know? So, but also having that accountability
00:19:51.820
is huge, you know, and in my industry anyway, you know, if you tell somebody that you're going
00:19:57.000
to do something, it makes it more real, right? So if you have that coach or somebody who's
00:20:00.760
advising you a mentor, then it's going to make it a little bit more achievable because they're
00:20:05.200
going to push you too, right? Sure. Do you have a fitness coach? I had a mentor, bless her,
00:20:10.240
and she committed suicide about five years ago. So she was my mentor and she actually was one of
00:20:18.380
the key reasons why I'm doing what I'm doing now and I'm so passionate about it because I was still
00:20:22.800
a little lost even when I started working as a trainer. I wasn't sure it was my calling and I was
00:20:28.440
struggling a little bit like anybody when you're first starting out. But for my documentary, I did
00:20:34.140
have a coach. I chose because I'm not a physique coach. That's not my speciality. So I did have a
00:20:40.480
coach and that accountability for me was defining a part of me actually succeeding because if you
00:20:48.140
don't have that accountability, it's so much tougher. Yeah, very cool. I love to hear that
00:20:52.920
guys that are on such a high level, such an elite level still are engaging with coaches and see the
00:20:58.000
value of that even though they are where they are. I'm sorry to hear about your mentor. It sounds like
00:21:01.740
her legacy is living on a little bit. Yeah, I think about her every day, mate. And I have to
00:21:05.720
be honest, you know, I even hear a voice in my head pushing through a hard kettlebell set and I'm
00:21:09.800
thinking about taking, you know, taking a rep or two off. I hear her. She was amazing and she had
00:21:14.900
her own dark struggles and unfortunately she succumbed to them. So I try and teach the way she would want
00:21:21.640
me to teach and have her live on through me a little bit. Yeah, definitely. Sure, sure. So you talked
00:21:27.680
about your wife. Is she into this as much as you are? Is she into kettlebells as well?
00:21:31.740
Oh yeah. I mean, I met my wife back in London in the UK in my gym, believe it or not. I was running
00:21:37.200
my business there. Long story short, she was on a working traveling visa and she was going to come
00:21:43.080
back to Canada. I convinced her to stick around and then convinced her to change her idea of wanting
00:21:47.920
to work as a wedding planner and become a trainer. So I taught her how to use the bell and she's
00:21:52.900
fantastic. We've been working together. We run our own business here in Canada and we've been working
00:21:56.580
together for three years. We run JM Training here in Guelph, just outside Toronto. And yeah,
00:22:01.280
we're both passionate about the same thing. So it's great to find a partner and to have that
00:22:07.120
support is so key to me being able to do things like the documentary that I did last year. I've
00:22:14.000
never been to film school and I made a documentary and I would never have been able to do that without
00:22:17.280
her. So yeah, she's great. It's very cool. So who's the better trainer?
00:22:21.260
I think we're basically the female and male version of each other. Like I hear her coaching
00:22:27.280
and she sounds like me and then I coach and I'm like, wow, I sound like Janet. So I think we really
00:22:31.400
do feed off each other. She is great at what she does. She inspires me every day because she's only
00:22:36.380
been, she's been doing it for four years now. I've been doing this for 12. So it's good to have that
00:22:40.440
because every now and again, you also need that accountability. You need that, that inspiration.
00:22:45.080
Sure. Yeah. And even sometimes I've noticed that those are that maybe just getting started
00:22:49.980
are actually back more to the fundamentals and they can keep you in line because they
00:22:55.120
Oh, absolutely. But she's a perfectionist too. So she keeps me on my toes.
00:22:58.480
Very cool. Fair enough. Hey, I'm making some notes here. And one of the questions I missed
00:23:02.340
that I meant to ask you about was the CrossFit question. You said CrossFit adapted the kettlebell
00:23:07.700
swing to go up above the head and over the shoulders. Why is that? Any idea or insights into that?
00:23:12.560
Yeah. I'm not entirely sure why they did that. I think they incorporates more upper body. So
00:23:17.680
your work and if you're going for higher rep ranges, which in CrossFit you tend to go for,
00:23:22.340
right? It tends to be, you know, as many reps as possible in a minute, for example. So,
00:23:27.080
and it does engage the upper back and arms a little more if you take it above the head.
00:23:33.080
So I'm not saying it's the wrong way to do it by any means, but it's definitely been adapted
00:23:36.500
for efficiency plus also to incorporate upper body as well, I would assume.
00:23:40.160
That makes sense. Is there a reason? I know there is a reason. That's probably not the right
00:23:44.920
question, but what is the reason that you would choose high reps, overweight, or vice versa?
00:23:51.180
Well, again, like it's the nature of CrossFit is competitive, right? So generally they're trying
00:23:57.100
to beat their last time or beat their, you know, competitor. So as many reps as possible,
00:24:02.660
you know, serves that criteria pretty well. For me, when I'm teaching at least, I like to go for
00:24:08.580
quality over quantity. And that doesn't mean that you can't do quantity at a, you know,
00:24:12.300
a good level. I just, when I'm teaching, of course, but there will be times where I go for
00:24:16.060
as many, as many snatches in five minutes on my right, on my right and my left, just to push the
00:24:21.500
endurance component of the workout. So it really depends on the mode and what you're trying to
00:24:25.260
achieve. Well, so speaking of what you're trying to achieve, what type of exercises would you
00:24:30.740
implement if you are trying to achieve different things? Maybe we can walk through that really
00:24:35.280
briefly. Sure. I mean, obviously kettlebell training is very endurance, uh, genuinely very
00:24:40.300
endurance orientated. So, um, you're working your full body. It's, uh, so you're working your core,
00:24:45.740
your upper body and your lower body together. It's a great fat burner, great for core strength
00:24:50.600
and great for mobility, uh, increasing mobility in your joints and for your hips. Uh, if you go
00:24:55.380
heavier, then you would juice, would, would reduce the reps. So then you would be working more on
00:25:00.320
power and strength. And then obviously if you go to traditional bodybuilding,
00:25:04.280
you know, where you do your split training, you have your, you know, you split your legs,
00:25:07.800
your upper body into two days to say back and, uh, back and triceps and chest and biceps,
00:25:12.840
then depending on your rep range and the weight you're going for, you'll be trying to, you know,
00:25:16.700
increase strength, uh, increase some lean muscle, build some lean muscle. So how high your weights
00:25:21.880
will determine how long your rest periods are. There's so many different ways you can train the
00:25:26.100
body. But I think the most important thing you probably grasped is yourself in your own
00:25:29.300
training is that you keep shocking the body. You keep changing the program around, uh, you know,
00:25:33.440
six to eight weeks. If you, if you want to keep seeing results, right? Yeah. I think just
00:25:37.400
variance is, is actually really important in your, your exercise routine, not only from a
00:25:41.620
physical perspective, but a mental perspective as well, because it keeps the mind engaged too.
00:25:45.240
Yeah. I mean, absolutely. You know, you want to get that central nervous system involved and, uh,
00:25:48.740
and things can become very, very boring if you keep doing the same thing over and over again.
00:25:52.300
And if you're not seeing the results, that's part of it, right? If you don't see any changes,
00:25:55.800
then that's the motivation is going to slip. So you've got to keep pushing the envelope and
00:25:59.480
challenging the body, taking yourself out of your comfort zone.
00:26:02.160
What are some non-traditional movements that you've incorporated into your exercises with
00:26:06.980
kettlebells? I like to adapt. So I, I, I love the, uh, figure of eight to punch. So basically it's a
00:26:13.620
figure of eight. So you're, you're, you're threading the, um, the kettlebell through your legs from one
00:26:18.260
arm to the other in a figure of eight. So you're basically going around the left behind and then in
00:26:22.820
front of the right and then background, and then you bring it up to level with shoulders. It's a very
00:26:27.880
ballistic movement. Interesting. And, uh, it's one, it's very unconventional. And when you're
00:26:32.220
doing it, actually it does turn heads because people are like, well, what is he doing over
00:26:35.980
there? You probably, have you ever been on one of those, uh, those videos for exercise fails or
00:26:41.760
anything like that? You know what I mean? Yeah. It sounds a lot like maybe, uh, dribbling a
00:26:46.080
basketball through your legs. Am I picturing this correctly? Yeah, but it's, it's ballistic and
00:26:49.580
powerful. Maybe I'll share a video with you at some point so you can see what I mean. It's a great
00:26:53.260
movement and I love it. But again, it's an advanced movement. It's not something you would teach
00:26:56.840
someone straight away. You teach them how to thread the, uh, the bell through their legs first,
00:27:00.860
but generally the knee gets hit a few times in practice for the first time at least. But yeah,
00:27:05.140
it's a great movement and it targets the full body. Yeah. And you got to learn that the hard way
00:27:08.760
sometimes just getting hit with it before you realize don't do that again. Right. It doesn't
00:27:12.120
take any prisoners of the bell. I tell you when you're first learning, you know, your arms are in
00:27:16.340
pieces, your hands are shredded, you got calluses, you're bleeding, you're bruised. Yeah. I mean, it's,
00:27:20.900
it's, it's not for the faint hearted, but it's a great tool once you get to, you know, get really,
00:27:24.660
you know, competent with it. I can see that, but then it's also pretty masculine and pretty
00:27:28.960
manly to throw this thing around and kind of dominate this, this big hunk of metal, which
00:27:32.320
is kind of fun as well. Absolutely. It's very manly. Talk to me maybe about some experiments
00:27:36.500
because I imagine with you being an expert in this field and, and, and competing and doing the
00:27:40.760
things that you are, that you're experimenting, you're trying new things, any experimentations gone
00:27:45.140
wrong for you? Experimenting, that's a good question. I'd have to think about that. Um, yeah,
00:27:50.660
I mean, I think we're always trying new things. I can't say this is really going wrong, but
00:27:54.400
like I am playing around with gymnastics and if you've seen a picture of me, I'm quite
00:27:57.700
a large dude. So, and, uh, to try and start learning to do gymnastics is, uh, is quite a
00:28:03.260
feat. So I just had a guy coming in and I suppose we can say we've had some epic fails where he's
00:28:07.940
trying to teach me a couple of these movements and, uh, I'm trying to do this, uh, banana movement
00:28:12.340
where I'm on my stomach and you're trying to, um, you're trying to, you know, pike your back.
00:28:16.720
So you're like, you're curving your back and literally rolling on your stomach, keeping
00:28:20.300
your legs off. So imagine you're like rocking like a boat. Uh, and it's, it's quite funny
00:28:24.280
to watch. I assume. Yeah, I'm sure. But yeah, like I'm obviously learning new stuff. You're
00:28:29.540
always going to take out your comfort zone and I think you have to fail before you can
00:28:33.280
succeed. Uh, and again, even when I picked up the bell for the first time, I was terrible.
00:28:37.540
Like I said, like I was terrible. I couldn't swing it for Toffee and I was using my back and
00:28:43.260
my arms hurt and I wasn't using my legs. So I think anywhere on the road to succeeding,
00:28:48.420
you're going to fail slightly, but it's how you bounce back.
00:28:50.900
How do you overcome looking? I don't want to say looking stupid, but that, but having
00:28:55.480
the feeling of looking stupid or looking dumb or people ridiculing or mocking, because
00:28:59.480
I think this is what's holding a lot of men back from actually going to the gym in the
00:29:04.740
I think all of us, if we're not, if we're being honest, all of us are scared of failure,
00:29:07.860
right? Of course we are. But you know, like the whole point for me anyway, is that if I'm
00:29:13.200
failing at something or if I felt at something that drives me, that feeling that I don't
00:29:18.340
ever want to feel that feeling again, not necessarily. Maybe I'm embarrassed because
00:29:22.060
someone's seen me maybe, but more it's like, you know, I should be able to do this. It's
00:29:26.300
that competitive drive. So it just makes me more adamant that I need to practice and
00:29:30.100
practice and practice until I'm good at it. Like I said, I wasn't good with the bell
00:29:32.840
when I first started and other people were much, much better. I see my clients after I've
00:29:37.620
coached them, you know, for a few weeks and I wasn't swinging the bell that well when
00:29:40.660
I was, you know, you know, I only had a couple of sessions. So I think the failure should
00:29:45.080
be something that drives you. But I think we get knocked back and then we take it personally
00:29:49.380
and we're like, okay, we're no good at that. Well, we're not just good at some, get good
00:29:53.160
at something. We, we have to get good at it, right? So we're not just good at it. We have
00:29:56.980
to learn from our struggles and it makes us better in the long term, long run.
00:30:01.640
Right. Yeah. I mean, there, there's no baby born with a kettlebell next to him that can
00:30:05.760
Sure. I mean, there are some natural athletes out there, but even, even those, I mean, people
00:30:09.780
have called me a natural athlete. I mean, I've struggled with a bunch of stuff, learning
00:30:13.040
a bunch of things, you know, but that's the whole point. That's part of the journey, right?
00:30:15.940
It's what, it's what helps you, uh, stay focused on that goal.
00:30:20.440
Have you always been a man who's been competitive and driven or is this something that you've
00:30:24.540
acquired or learned over time or just through your experiences? Tell me a little bit about
00:30:27.920
I was driven as a youngster, as an athlete, very driven. I was a very good swimmer and I was
00:30:31.660
potentially going to go to the Olympics in 2000. I gave up on that. That's a long story,
00:30:36.660
but I gave up on that. And I think, uh, up until I started working as a trainer and working
00:30:41.260
with the bell, I think I lost that competitive drive. You know, I lost my way a little bit,
00:30:44.800
like we mentioned before and, uh, didn't have a purpose. Didn't really know who I was.
00:30:48.760
So, but then, you know, now again, it's been reignited. So it, you know, it's been there,
00:30:53.740
but again, it has to, like anybody, I think people can connect with this, you know, people that
00:30:57.160
played sports when they were younger, that were really good and maybe aren't training anymore.
00:30:59.920
Uh, you know, it's still there. You just have to reignite it, you, you know, and not be scared
00:31:04.620
of failure. And it's going to be hard, you know, it's going to be really hard, especially if you
00:31:08.060
haven't trained for a while, it's going to be tough, but that's part of the journey. You have
00:31:10.880
to go through it, but you need a support network. You need to get the right type of coach. You need
00:31:15.420
to get that nutrition down. You need to make that commitment and have, like we've been talking
00:31:18.880
about those short term goals and that accountability. Sure. So to refine that motivation,
00:31:24.280
is it just a matter of finding something that you're engaged with that you're passionate about,
00:31:27.500
or is it a matter of being passionate and engaged with wherever and whatever you're doing in the
00:31:33.260
current moment? I think it's a bit of both, right? I think you, you know, you, like we said,
00:31:37.960
you, we said earlier, you do really have to have a passionate and emotional attachment to
00:31:42.200
any goal. It has to make a lot of sense. Uh, not to any, not just to anybody else, but to you,
00:31:48.180
you know, it has to almost define you in a sense, right? This is going to be your purpose for
00:31:52.780
however long you've decided to do this for. But in the same sense, I think it works both ways.
00:31:57.580
Yeah, no, that makes sense. And I certainly found that to be, be true in my life. So if somebody's
00:32:01.680
listening to this and they want to get started and they're thinking, man, John's really got this
00:32:04.560
stuff figured out. Like what is the best way to get started with kettlebell training?
00:32:08.360
Well, a lot of people go onto YouTube, right? And I've always been a bit weary of putting videos
00:32:13.340
on YouTube and trying to teach people on YouTube, but it is the medium that everybody tends to go to
00:32:17.440
first. I would suggest going to find a kettlebell coach who's certified either through, um, Steve
00:32:25.820
Cotter's qualifications or Pavel's qualifications. So a good qualification, check the qualification
00:32:31.100
out, um, and make sure that, you know, this person or this coach has a lot of experience.
00:32:37.440
It's really important that the coach knows what to do. It's not just someone that throws around the
00:32:40.340
bell in the gym because, you know, if you're taught badly in my experience, it's harder to reteach or to,
00:32:46.940
you know, to unteach poor technique and then reteach than it is to get, you know, with someone
00:32:52.060
who's got the swing down for, for example, really, really well. So make sure they're very well
00:32:56.280
qualified. Ask them about the qualification, how long it took them, uh, and do a little bit of
00:33:00.740
investigation yourself. Ask the right questions, right? Because when you choose a coach, you are,
00:33:05.420
um, allowing them to have free reign with your body and your mind, right? So if they're advising you
00:33:10.820
with your diet and your training, you know, you're giving them the okay to tell you what to do with
00:33:15.700
your body. So you need to make sure that they've got the qualifications and you're asking a lot of
00:33:19.560
questions so that, you know, don't just take it for granted that because they're a trainer,
00:33:23.940
they know what they're doing. Right. Yeah. And I think what happens a lot of the times too,
00:33:27.900
is they'll see somebody that has some obvious and apparent results. You know, if I were to look at
00:33:32.300
you, I can see that you're strong. I can see that you're fit. I can see that you take care of your
00:33:35.940
body. And I think a lot of times, and to speak to your point about seeing results, uh, regardless of the
00:33:44.180
way that you did it and trying to retrain bad habits, that's probably the worst thing that
00:33:47.780
could happen is it could actually work for you and to some degree. And then you think you've
00:33:51.420
got this all figured out, even though there are ways to expand and continually get better at this
00:33:55.340
thing. Right. That's so true. When you hit the nail on the head there, because that's, that's the
00:33:58.660
reason why I made this documentary, uh, peak physique, because, uh, there are coaches out there,
00:34:03.000
especially in this, in the realm of, um, you know, physique, uh, competitions with,
00:34:07.300
we're sold this, this image of somebody in a bikini or in a, you know, in a,
00:34:11.360
like a shredded dude is healthy and attainable and realistic. And, um, there's a lot of coaches
00:34:16.660
out there that have done one show that then, you know, or people that have done one show that
00:34:20.480
selling themselves as coaches online and they don't understand how the body works and they're
00:34:24.040
selling generic programs and hurting people. So I wanted to make a documentary to try and help
00:34:28.520
people make informed and, and, and healthy choices about choosing a coach, training, dieting,
00:34:34.540
uh, you know, and obviously there's the steroid issue as well, which is a huge thing.
00:34:37.680
And I wanted to do it naturally and show people that, you know, you don't have to take steroids
00:34:40.980
to get the body that you deserve, but it does take time, patience and a commitment,
00:34:45.660
you know? So again, you're right. That's, that's exactly it. You know, just because someone looks
00:34:49.300
the part, do a little bit more investigation. Right. Yeah. Well, what are some of the pitfalls?
00:34:54.380
I mean, we're winding down on time, but I do want to cover maybe some of the pitfalls or some things
00:34:57.940
to avoid or just be aware of as somebody's getting into, whether it's kettlebell training or just even
00:35:01.820
getting to the gym for the first time after years of, of not, what should somebody avoid doing?
00:35:06.600
You've really got to understand your body, right? When, you know, if you sign for the first out for
00:35:10.540
the first time, you know, get, obviously get some help, uh, either somebody who's been training for
00:35:14.680
a while, get a, you know, get a training buddy because the pitfalls are, you know, injuring
00:35:19.260
yourself, going too heavy, uh, over training. There's a big, big risk of eating too little.
00:35:24.160
Cause if you watch, if you, if you watch anything or you read online, there's a lot of, you know,
00:35:28.640
diet plans that will get you to cut calories to a ridiculous level, uh, and then get you to train
00:35:33.540
over what you should be. And that's just going to harm the body. We should, you need to fuel the
00:35:37.780
body. You need to, uh, train the body correctly, but you also need to recover and look after the
00:35:43.560
body as well. So the pitfalls are, you know, taking, you know, harmful diuretics, you know, uh,
00:35:48.300
you know, I don't think, you know, unless you're going to be a pro bodybuilder, you don't need to
00:35:51.360
mess around with steroids. Um, you know, minimal supplementation, whole foods, uh, a good coach
00:35:58.620
working on cardiovascular and resistance training, as well as getting a good nutrition plan put
00:36:03.580
together that's specific to you that incorporates good, you know, a good amount of calories and some,
00:36:09.580
you know, and some recovery, stretching and mobility, uh, components as well. Right. So you've
00:36:15.180
got to look at the whole system as opposed to just going to the gym and training like crazy and not
00:36:20.100
eating enough. And, uh, which a lot of people do, unfortunately. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, John,
00:36:25.300
I appreciate that. That's a really valuable. And obviously we're just skimming the surface. I want
00:36:28.740
to ask you a couple of questions as we wind down. Number one is what does it mean to be a man?
00:36:33.920
That's a really good question. I mean, I'm proud to be a man. I like liking myself as I'm a role model.
00:36:39.440
I'm trying to teach people every day how to, uh, you know, empower themselves and other people around
00:36:44.760
them to, uh, to make better choices, to inspire others. So for me to be a man is to try and to live
00:36:51.020
my life to the max and help people as I do that, you know, try and show people there is, you know,
00:36:56.580
you don't just have to conform, you know, to the nine to five, you can live your dreams. You can,
00:37:02.040
you know, you can reach, you can change the status quo. You know, I never filmed, I never filmed a
00:37:06.240
documentary before. I never made a documentary before. And I made a documentary, you know, if you can dream
00:37:10.760
big, you can achieve that to show people that you can actually be a bit, the best version of
00:37:15.780
yourself. Powerful stuff, man. I really appreciate you sharing. So if somebody wants to learn more
00:37:20.380
about the work that you're doing, including the documentary that you talked a little bit about,
00:37:23.700
how do we connect with you and watch that? Okay. So you can watch the documentary. You can
00:37:27.560
download it at peakphysiquefilm.com and your listeners actually have a promo code. So they join
00:37:33.160
Vimeo, add their email and add a password. And then they use the, uh, the promo code man.
00:37:39.340
Um, they get a percentage off. You can find me at Peak Physique Journey to the Stage on Facebook
00:37:44.580
or JM Training, JM Personal Training on Facebook. Twitter is, uh, John Mills at Peak Physique 15.
00:37:51.920
Uh, Instagram is Peak underscore Physique 2016. And I'd really love your viewers to watch it and let
00:37:57.900
me know what they think. We're getting some really good, you know, views and ratings and, uh, we're just
00:38:02.260
trying to get it out there and help as many people as possible. Awesome. We'll make sure we link up all
00:38:06.080
of those things in the show notes so guys can check that out. Guys, I encourage you to go check it
00:38:09.300
out. Obviously this has been a big component of, of my exercise and fitness regimen. So I'd
00:38:13.680
encourage you to get involved too. John, I want to let you know, I appreciate you. Thanks for taking
00:38:16.540
the time. Obviously you're an expert in this stuff and you understand what it is you're talking about.
00:38:20.220
I appreciate you. I appreciate you taking time to impart some of your wisdom with us today.
00:38:23.340
I really appreciate the opportunity to speak to you and your listeners. It's been fantastic.
00:38:28.960
There you have it, man. Mr. John Mills talking with us about the versatility of kettlebell training and
00:38:34.320
why you might want to start incorporating them into your workouts. Now go out there and get
00:38:38.140
training. But before you do, I want to make sure you learn about our elite mastermind,
00:38:42.640
the iron council. It is comprised guys of over 100 men all working to be the very best versions
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of themselves. These guys are committed to themselves. They're committed to helping each
00:38:51.820
other succeed this month. We are reading because we do have a book club. The obstacle is the way
00:38:56.880
by Ryan holiday. And we're focused on the topic of becoming a man of value. So you can check out
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the details at order of man.com slash iron council. And also make sure you go check out that store.
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We've got the order of man store up and running. Now it's at order of man.com slash store for all
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the best looking gear for men guys. I look forward to talking to you on Friday, but until then take
00:39:16.080
action and become the man you were meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.
00:39:21.860
You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of a man. You were meant to be.
00:39:25.520
We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.