Order of Man - OoM 078： Extreme Ownership with Leif Babin

00:00:00.000 Extreme ownership is a concept that you've heard me talk a ton about on this podcast and in our

00:00:04.500 conversations. Today, I wanted to invite my guest co-author of the book Extreme Ownership,

00:00:08.560 Navy SEAL Leif Babin, to talk about what extreme ownership means, the default aggressive mentality,

00:00:13.680 humility's role in all of this, and how you can take ownership of every area of your life.

00:00:19.120 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:23.920 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:29.060 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is

00:00:36.020 who you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:41.740 you can call yourself a man. Men, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler,

00:00:46.380 and I am your host and the founder of Order of Man. As always, I'm glad you're here with us today.

00:00:50.460 As you know by now, we're a show about all things manly, from being a stronger leader,

00:00:55.020 a more connected father and husband, a better business owner, and at the end of the day,

00:00:59.060 we want you guys to be a better man. Today, we are going to be talking in depth about how to

00:01:04.200 become a better leader and take ownership, extreme ownership, in every area of your life.

00:01:07.860 This is actually part two of the discussion, guys. I had Navy SEAL Jocko Willink on the show

00:01:11.620 for part one, which you can find at orderofman.com slash 060. But today, I have the co-author Navy SEAL

00:01:18.580 Leif Babin on to talk about this subject of extreme ownership more in depth. But before we get too much

00:01:24.420 into this, I want you to know that you can get all of the show notes for this show at orderofman.com

00:01:28.600 slash 078. And make sure, guys, if you have not already, you need to make sure that you join our

00:01:34.060 closed men's Facebook group. We're going to be having a deeper conversation about this and so

00:01:38.120 much more at facebook.com slash groups slash orderofman. Now, I want to introduce you to my

00:01:43.200 guest today. He is Leif Babin. He's a decorated former Navy SEAL officer. He's the author of Extreme

00:01:48.420 Ownership, How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win. And he's the co-founder of Echelon Front, where he serves as a

00:01:53.240 leadership instructor, speaker, and executive coach. He's a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy.

00:01:58.260 Leif served 13 years in the Navy, including nine as a Navy SEAL. As a SEAL platoon commander and SEAL

00:02:03.400 Teams 3's Task Unit Bruiser, he planned and led major combat operations in the Battle of Ramadi that

00:02:08.820 helped the Ready First Brigade of the U.S. Army's 1st Armored Division bring stability to the violent,

00:02:13.920 war-torn city. Task Unit Bruiser became the most highly decorated special operations unit of the Iraq

00:02:19.580 war. He is also the recipient of the Silver Star, two Bronze Stars, a Purple Heart, and in 2011,

00:02:25.700 Leif left active duty and co-founded Echelon Front, a leadership consulting company that helps others

00:02:30.100 build their own high-performing, winning teams. Leif speaks on leadership, U.S. military strategy,

00:02:35.660 and foreign policy. His editorials have been published in the Wall Street Journal,

00:02:39.480 and he has appeared on a variety of national television, news, and radio programs.

00:02:46.300 Leif, thanks for joining me on the show today. I'm glad you're here.

00:02:48.360 Thanks for having me, Ryan. Great to be on with you.

00:02:51.060 So this is part two. We interviewed Jocko, I think it was about three months ago we decided

00:02:55.100 it was what it was, and I know the guys are just itching for some more because the concept you guys,

00:02:59.380 you and Jocko both talk about is just an incredible concept. I know it's changed my life. I know it's

00:03:03.420 been impactful in some of the guys that are part of our audience's lives, so really excited to have

00:03:07.380 this conversation with you today. I want to set the framework a little bit, and I want to understand a

00:03:12.540 little bit why this concept of extreme ownership, why you've decided to rally around this cause and

00:03:19.160 really promote this as a way of living and being in people's lives.

00:03:24.420 Absolutely. Well, first of all, thank you for having me on today,

00:03:27.540 Ryan. It's great to be on with you. Love the interview you did with Jocko,

00:03:30.700 and I love what you're doing here. I think Order of Men is an awesome venture, and we need more men,

00:03:37.740 frankly, tuning in to learn how to be manly men, to stand up as men and be tough and strong and

00:03:45.680 provide for their families and be part of their communities, and I think it's awesome. So thanks

00:03:50.260 for having me on today. I appreciate that, man. To answer your question, I mean, for us, it's the

00:03:55.140 reason of all the things we could have talked about, the reason we decided to title the book

00:03:59.620 Extreme Ownership is because that is the most important thing. It's really the foundational

00:04:05.120 principle upon which everything else is based. So, and what extreme ownership is, is just really

00:04:09.940 a mindset. It's an attitude that there's nobody else to blame but you. There's no excuses. You

00:04:16.660 got to own everything in your world, and not only everything in your world, but everything that

00:04:20.680 affects your mission. So that takes you out of making excuses for things that you're not even

00:04:24.500 responsible for. If it affects your mission, you got to reach out. You got to build relationships.

00:04:28.660 You got to make sure that stuff gets done in order to complete that mission. And I think that mindset

00:04:33.860 will enable you to be successful in anything that you do. And so we saw that mindset. The best SEAL

00:04:40.580 leaders, the best SEAL units had a culture of that. Certainly the best U.S. Army and U.S. Marine units

00:04:48.100 that we worked with in the Battle of Ramadi and worked right alongside those guys, they had that

00:04:52.480 within their culture. Their leaders had that at every level of their organization and enabled them to

00:04:57.420 succeed. And we saw that we've seen the same thing as Jaco and I have worked with dozens and dozens and

00:05:01.580 dozens of companies over the last five years that we've had our leadership and management consulting

00:05:06.060 company, Echelon Front. We've seen in the business world over and over again that the best leaders are

00:05:10.620 exhibiting that mindset. And so many people have reached out to us and told us how extreme ownership

00:05:16.460 has saved their marriage or made them a better spouse or made them a better parent or made them a better

00:05:21.900 coach, any, you know, made them a better athlete. All these things across the spectrum where people

00:05:26.940 stop making excuses, stop casting blame, stop saying, well, it's not my fault or that's out of

00:05:31.780 my control, but actually taking ownership of everything in their world. And frankly, the reason

00:05:36.780 that's important is so that you can actually own it and then come up with a solution to solve the

00:05:43.120 problem and change the outcome for the better. Yeah. I mean, this is such a powerful concept. You talk

00:05:48.020 about saving your marriages. Anybody who's listened to this show for any amount of time knows a little

00:05:51.340 bit about my history. My wife and I almost called it quits and this was seven years ago. And I blamed

00:05:56.700 a lot of that on her, but I came to the realization of this and I didn't know what it was called at the

00:06:01.620 time. I wasn't able to quantify it, but I realized that this was my fault. And as soon as I started

00:06:05.520 owning that, I was able to change myself, which changed the relationship we had, which we've had

00:06:10.100 three more kids since we've been married for 12 years this year. So I can see how powerful this

00:06:14.180 actually is. And it's been applicable in my life. That's an amazing success story, Ryan. And it's great to

00:06:18.520 hear it. I think, frankly, my wife reminds me regularly. If I start blaming stuff on her that

00:06:24.120 I wrote a book called Extreme Ownership, I need to take a look at the mirror.

00:06:28.340 I get that. I get some of that as well.

00:06:29.980 I think that's healthy for all of us, definitely. And she certainly keeps me in check. But I think

00:06:35.200 that's part of what Extreme Ownership is about is humility. And I think for those of us who are on

00:06:40.400 very difficult, violent battlefields where it was every single day, day in and day out in sustained

00:06:48.620 combat operations, there's nothing more humbling than that. I mean, combat is just the ultimate

00:06:53.400 teacher. And you realize that you're going to get beaten. You're going to make mistakes. There's

00:06:58.860 going to be things that happen that you couldn't have predicted that you felt like you weren't prepared

00:07:02.620 for. And so that humility is something that we brought back as a major lesson learned from those

00:07:07.780 combat operations in the Battle of Ramadi in 2006. Jaco and I helped build and run SEAL leadership

00:07:12.980 training for the future generations of SEAL leaders and tried to impart on them just how

00:07:17.980 humble you needed to be. We talk about in that dichotomy of leadership, these things that you

00:07:22.160 have to balance. You've got to be confident. You need to be confident in yourself. You need to be

00:07:26.300 confident in your team and your abilities. But you can't ever be cocky. You can't be overconfident.

00:07:30.300 You can't think that you've got it all figured out. And so you've got to constantly be able to have

00:07:34.200 a realistic self-assessment, sometimes brutally honest self-assessment of yourself, of your team,

00:07:41.120 of what you're trying to do about how you can get better, what you need to do to better yourself.

00:07:45.660 You know, where are your weaknesses? How can you work on them? And so that mindset is just all

00:07:50.060 powerful to enable you to succeed. I want to talk about this concept of maintaining humility

00:07:55.340 because you talk about combat zone. You talk about literally life or death. I don't know if you knew.

00:07:59.000 I was in Ramadi shortly before you guys had arrived. I was there serving in 2005, 2006. I

00:08:05.860 left June of 2006, which I think is probably maybe a month or two overlap, if I understand correctly.

00:08:11.000 We arrived in April 2006. So we did have a month overlap. And I remember hearing about that,

00:08:15.600 you know, when you had Jocko on and that's outstanding. You certainly know exactly what I'm

00:08:21.340 talking about with those sustained urban combat situations where it's day in, day out, and almost

00:08:26.320 every single day. You know, these awesome American warriors who are out there getting bloodied and

00:08:32.100 often getting killed or seriously wounded. And so thank you for being there, for what you did.

00:08:37.680 Well, it goes both ways, definitely. And I thank you for your service. I'm sure a lot of the guys

00:08:40.800 listening do as well. So I want to talk about this idea of maintaining humility. It's obviously,

00:08:45.100 you talk about maintaining humility in this life or death struggle, these battles that we participated

00:08:50.080 in. Is this, it's a little bit easier, I think, to maintain humility in that because you are

00:08:54.900 dealing with those circumstances. How do you maintain humility in your everyday life when things,

00:09:00.520 even when they get difficult, are relatively easy the way that we have it as Americans and across the

00:09:05.220 globe? Well, I think it just, it puts it in perspective, you know, that it puts it in perspective.

00:09:09.100 But I think, as you know, there's so many folks out there that make an assumption that,

00:09:13.820 well, you know, like if I'm talking to a business team, for example, right. Or if I'm talking to

00:09:18.260 somebody about this concept of extreme ownership, they love to often apply it to other people and

00:09:24.160 say, well, you know, it's easier for you or it's easier for this person. And really, that's just

00:09:28.420 simply making an excuse, right? So people have this idea that everybody in the military,

00:09:33.100 particularly if they haven't served, I mean, you and I know that we have some outstanding

00:09:36.940 individuals that make up U.S. military units. Absolutely. And I'm proud to have served with them.

00:09:43.220 And that will always be an honor in my life. But they're not these Terminator robots,

00:09:47.280 right? That some people outside the military just envision them to be. Everyone just follows

00:09:52.600 orders, doesn't ever question things, doesn't have their own agenda, their own ego that gets in the

00:09:57.620 way, all those things. And of course, that's just not true. That happens on the battlefield. But

00:10:02.760 people make the assumption that if there's life and death involved, that everyone's disciplined,

00:10:07.300 everyone's focused. And the reality is just not true, right? If leadership breaks down,

00:10:11.600 you get folks that lose focus. Hey, you know what? We've been out on 12 operations,

00:10:17.020 just like this, and nothing bad happens. So people start getting complacent. And so that's

00:10:21.340 really where leaders have to step up. The NCOs and the JOs have to step up and actually make sure

00:10:28.480 that folks are focused, understand what's at stake, and continue to help connect the dots between

00:10:34.360 people that are in the trenches slugging it out and the overall mission success to make sure that

00:10:38.920 people do maintain that. So I think folks that just kind of dismiss that and say, well, it's different

00:10:42.580 if life or death is at stake. It's really not. And it's the same discipline that's required in

00:10:46.760 order to succeed in those environments. How do you become more aware of extreme

00:10:51.100 ownership in your life and the opposite side of it, which is making excuses? Sometimes we get

00:10:54.640 trapped in our own box and our own way of thinking. I think it's difficult for us to recognize that

00:10:58.260 we're actually sabotaging ourselves. How do you do that tactically? And how do you recommend other

00:11:02.580 guys do that as well? I think it just requires detachment. Detachment is really the key.

00:11:07.360 One of the big things that we have to teach our SEAL leaders is that, I'm sure it was the same way

00:11:13.700 for you and your guys, a leader's default position should not be looking down the sights of the weapon,

00:11:20.240 but should be high port. Their weapon is pointed at the sky and they're detached. They're stepped back

00:11:26.060 off the line of their guys that are laying down fire so that they can actually see what's going on.

00:11:31.220 It gives them a little bit of separation, a little bit of altitude so they can see what's going on.

00:11:34.300 They can think about what the next step is, where the team's going and where the enemy is,

00:11:38.740 how many of them there are, should we maneuver on them, or is it actually friendly shooting at us

00:11:42.860 instead of enemy? I mean, all those different things. That detachment, I think, is key in order

00:11:46.920 to see that. And if you're in the zone, if you're in the middle of things, when the pressure's on,

00:11:52.460 it's really easy to get frustrated and cast blame and think about all the things that aren't

00:11:57.080 happening or other people should be doing. And that detachment, I think, is all important.

00:12:00.720 If people can recognize that they actually need to detach from something, I feel myself getting

00:12:05.620 spun up. That's a red flag for me. I need to take a step back and think, okay, what's going on here?

00:12:10.680 What am I not seeing? Let me spin myself down, think about the bigger picture, detach from this,

00:12:14.980 my immediate emotional reaction, and then I can make an assessment. And I think when people can do

00:12:19.960 that, then they're able to see that, wow, I can actually do something. Instead of making an excuse,

00:12:25.780 instead of blaming this on my wife, instead of saying the coach should have done this better,

00:12:29.560 or my other teammates should have done this year, or my colleague down the hall that I was

00:12:34.880 dependent on dropped the ball, then they can actually take a step back and say, you know what?

00:12:37.980 I could do a better job of helping that person, of giving them more information, of communicating

00:12:42.120 with them. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. And I know for me, I've personally scheduled this into my

00:12:46.580 day. At the end of every day, I still do after action reviews. I've been in the military for a long

00:12:50.400 time, but I still do after action reviews. And I go through and I look at my day and what I've got

00:12:54.000 accomplished and what I didn't get accomplished. And so initially I started scheduling this review

00:12:57.820 into my daily process, but anymore, I can literally do that throughout the day and ask myself,

00:13:03.140 how can I improve? What can I do differently rather than focus on these outside factors that most people

00:13:07.740 do? And I think that's exactly right. And that's, that enables you to grow all the time. It's easy

00:13:12.080 to just throw up your hands and, and, uh, and make excuses. And one of the reasons I, I used to fail

00:13:17.000 this probably like you, I mean, I'm a, I'm a pretty headstrong guy. And so, uh, I, you know, I see the

00:13:22.540 world and I'm like, this is what I need done. And this is the mission. Here's how we got to get

00:13:25.760 accomplished. And sometimes when those things don't happen, according to my, you know, vision

00:13:30.280 or my timeline, I get super frustrated. It's easy to cast blame. Uh, and a lot of that, a lot of that

00:13:35.380 happens up the chain of command, right? If you're getting questions about how you were mitigating

00:13:40.700 risk and whether or not you properly coordinated with your quick reaction force to come bail you out

00:13:45.040 when things go bad or, or, uh, you know, whether or not your guys are operating in accordance with

00:13:48.880 the rules of engagement, those things are, uh, those things are stuff that you, you have to,

00:13:53.560 you have to take a step back from that and say, okay, instead of getting frustrated,

00:13:57.060 you know, we used to call it drinking the haterade, right? I'm just, I'm drinking the haterade

00:14:00.620 talking about how my boss sucks. And he's asking me all these questions and how dare he question me.

00:14:05.600 And, you know, this is a big pain in my ass. Why are they doing that? Uh, and the reality is,

00:14:09.900 look, if, if, if they've got questions, then I'm not doing a good enough job of pushing information.

00:14:13.740 So I've got to do a better job of communicating, of, of educating them about, you know,

00:14:18.640 they're not there with me right now. Maybe they're, they were separated or down the road,

00:14:21.820 30 miles away or whatever it is. They're good people. They're just trying to do it,

00:14:25.060 do their jobs. They want us to win. They don't want us to fail. So I've got to do a better job

00:14:29.580 of leading up the chain of command. And, and, you know, that's one of the chapters we wrote about

00:14:32.820 this, uh, that I think people have a real hard time with. Uh, and even after they read that chapter,

00:14:37.580 you know, they'll, I, I get people to come back and say things like, uh, you talked about the default

00:14:42.620 aggressive mindset and my boss doesn't have it. And that's just messed up. And then, and I see myself

00:14:47.820 in them. Right. And, and, you know, Jocko really helped me see that, uh, as, as a leader that,

00:14:52.780 you know, no matter the situation, I should strive to have the same relationship with any boss that I

00:14:57.660 had, whether I love them and deeply respected them, whether I didn't like them and was frustrated,

00:15:02.360 uh, or felt they were risk averse or whatever it was, you know, good, bad, you should strive to have

00:15:07.080 the same relationship with them. And that is that they trust you. They respect your opinion and ask you,

00:15:12.100 uh, for your input. Uh, and, and that, you know, lastly, that they give you what you need to

00:15:17.060 succeed. And so, you know, I think those are things that people need to look at. People need

00:15:20.600 to understand that that's, that's what you have to do. So I have to remind people regularly that

00:15:24.580 love extreme ownership, that tell me the book's great, that tell me how it changed their lives.

00:15:28.380 And they'll tell me how much their boss sucks. And I have to say, listen, part of being, you know,

00:15:32.560 that dichotomy leadership to be a good leader, you have to be a good follower and you're not being a

00:15:36.600 good follower right now. And let me tell you when I wasn't a good follower, let me give you

00:15:40.020 multiple examples of where I screwed that up and what I learned from that. And once I realized that

00:15:43.840 in order to be a good leader, I had to be a good follower as well. And the SEAL teams, you know,

00:15:47.760 just, just as in any military unit, you throw something out there, uh, an idea to go accomplish

00:15:52.360 a mission and everyone's got their own ideas and everyone's kind of arguing for my way of doing it.

00:15:56.260 And here's why at the end of the day, senior leaders got to make a call on what's best. And we

00:16:01.240 all have to go out and execute that plan as if it were our own plan. And if we can't do that,

00:16:06.140 then we're going to fail as a team. And so life is like that, you know, whether you're talking about

00:16:09.800 a business, whether you're talking about an athletic team, whether you're talking about

00:16:13.060 just a community organization, you got to be able to go out and execute that plan as if it were your

00:16:18.260 own plan. I really liked that. You're talking about the team, the rest of the team, even the

00:16:22.880 leaders going up the chain wants you to win. That's such a valuable lesson. I go back to even high

00:16:27.060 school sports and I look at students or even friends of mine who said, Oh, my coaches don't play me

00:16:31.920 because it's politics. I'm like, bullshit. They don't play you because you're not good. Those coaches

00:16:35.700 want you to win and want the team to win just as bad as we want to win. So let's, let's take

00:16:40.440 ownership of that and let's improve. But the, the other mentality of, Hey, it's just politics or,

00:16:45.440 or they're not on the same page as us is really, like you said, an excuse not to excel or move

00:16:50.140 forward with what needs to be done. It is. And so they, you know, what's, they never change

00:16:53.320 behavior, right? They're there's, they see themselves as a victim, uh, something they couldn't

00:16:57.140 control. And so they never actually changed the behavior to engage with their coaches, build a

00:17:01.600 relationship, show them that they're working hard, you know, focus on their, you know, their

00:17:05.580 footwork and strength and speed and, and all those things are going to make them better. And so of

00:17:09.440 course they never, they never get to play. And, and, you know, I see that with particularly athletic

00:17:13.240 teams. I'm a huge college football fan. When you, when you see those folks that are making excuses

00:17:17.060 for like, I, our team lost because there was a bad call by the ref. Yeah. Right. And you know,

00:17:22.360 that's so amazing to me. It's like, okay, maybe there was a bad call by the ref, but you can't

00:17:26.520 control that. But why did your team get in a position by one bad call by the ref cost you the

00:17:31.580 game? Why didn't you actually beat that team by three touchdowns? So it wasn't even close.

00:17:35.880 So, I mean, those are the kinds of things where, you know, if, if you are going to make excuses,

00:17:39.920 uh, you're just never going to actually solve the problem that enables you to accomplish the mission

00:17:44.520 and win. Let's stay on this thread line of, of talking about leading up the chain, because I think

00:17:49.000 everybody kind of gets the idea. Maybe it's not as efficient as they need to be leading down the

00:17:53.000 chain, but we'll, and we'll talk about that, but leading up the chain, how do you practice?

00:17:57.780 I think this is assertive communication, right? And just being aware of what needs to be done,

00:18:01.100 being aware of what needs to be said, and then being tactful about the way you actually do it.

00:18:05.180 How do you improve your ability to communicate with somebody up the chain of command from you?

00:18:09.620 Well, I thought your, your, your piece, uh, on the podcast about aggressive communication versus

00:18:14.360 assertive communication, I thought was excellent. And, uh, and I think, uh, we talk about a default

00:18:19.800 aggressive mentality in, in our, in our guys, and we expect our leaders to be default aggressive.

00:18:24.240 And that doesn't mean in the communication piece that means in, in aggressively driving out

00:18:28.980 to accomplish the mission. So that's what we want our leaders to do. I mean, being proactive

00:18:33.000 rather than reactive. So they come up against an obstacle, figuring out a way around that obstacle.

00:18:37.180 If it's outside of their ability to make a decision on that, then they at least are going

00:18:41.420 to make a recommendation up the chain to say, here's what's in front of us. That's preventing

00:18:45.260 us from accomplishing the mission. Here's what I think we can do to solve that challenge and at least

00:18:48.680 have a plan that they, they push up the chain. So when you're talking about communicating up the

00:18:53.160 chain, it's gotta be delicate. Certainly, you know, you gotta be professional. Uh, and so there are

00:18:58.100 some bosses that have some thin skin and look, I've been in this boat as well before, right? When,

00:19:02.920 when you feel like someone's coming up and ask you a question and they're like, they're questioning

00:19:05.920 your authority or they're questioning your experience or they think they know better than

00:19:09.180 you. Uh, and if that comes across, you're going to cause a big friction there, right? Rather than

00:19:15.300 build up trust and confidence with, with your boss up the chain of command. So everything that you

00:19:19.860 should be doing is trying to build up that trust and confidence. Again, back to those three things,

00:19:23.300 right? The, the boss trusts you, respects your opinion and gives you what you need to accomplish a mission.

00:19:27.380 So if you're coming and approaching that, in, in that aggressive manner, uh, that's that,

00:19:32.840 that, that gets people's ego involved, then you're going to eliminate those things. You're

00:19:37.920 going to decrease trust, right? You're, you're definitely going to decrease respect and someone's

00:19:41.960 not going to come to you and seek your opinion on things. Uh, and certainly they're probably not

00:19:45.360 going to give you what you need, uh, to, to accomplish your mission and win. So, so you've

00:19:49.540 got to approach it in a manner that's going to give you those things. So how can I approach it?

00:19:52.660 If this, if I know that, you know, there's, there's an ego involved here and obviously you

00:19:55.820 never want to come in and say, I know better than you boss. That's just not going to go over well.

00:19:59.420 Right. So I've, I've done that before. Let me tell you from personal experience, not, not a good

00:20:03.260 call. So, uh, it causes a lot more, a lot more problems than it's worth. So you've got to, you've

00:20:07.960 got to ask these questions in a manner that is going to get you what you need. So if you've got a

00:20:12.260 question about why a plan is happening, the support that you actually need from, from the boss,

00:20:17.340 you want to get a plan approved in a timely manner, you need a resource, then, then you've got to

00:20:22.200 approach the boss in a way that's going to get you that. Right. So, uh, that requires that assertive

00:20:27.340 communication that you're talking about, not aggressive communication. So come in a way that's

00:20:30.600 going to, going to decrease the ego and say, Hey, listen, boss, I know, you know, better than me

00:20:34.440 on this. I know you got a lot more experience than me on this. Uh, but help me understand why we're

00:20:39.680 actually in this direction, in this direction. So I can believe in it and I can get my team to believe

00:20:43.820 in it. That's, uh, that's going to really, really help me be able to go execute. And so, you know,

00:20:47.300 if you're asking in a manner that's like that, you're, you're, you're much more likely to get

00:20:51.400 the answers, uh, that, that you want or the resource that you need or plans approved in a

00:20:55.980 timely manner, uh, seeing all of you as part of the team, uh, and seeing that the boss has a vision

00:21:01.260 as well. Uh, and so if he's concerned about risk or how you're mitigating that, then understand if I

00:21:05.520 can see the world through his eyes a little bit, again, that detachment, not just looking through my

00:21:09.980 own eyes, but seeing the world through his eyes, then you can actually get what you need done and you

00:21:14.700 can accomplish your mission and win. Men just want to take a quick break to tell you about our

00:21:18.720 elite mastermind, the iron council. The iron council is a growing brotherhood of like-minded

00:21:22.840 men who want to succeed in their lives. They're wanting to be better husbands, better fathers,

00:21:27.160 business owners, leaders in their community. And of course, a whole lot more inside of the iron

00:21:30.560 council. We're going above and beyond just talking about it, just having a conversation about being a

00:21:35.300 better man to actually doing something about it. So each man in our mastermind is part of a 10 man

00:21:40.480 team. We call them battle teams. They receive weekly assignments, daily challenges,

00:21:44.700 and up to two virtual calls per week to discuss being a better man and hold each other accountable

00:21:50.040 to doing so. So if you want to learn more about what we're doing inside of the council,

00:21:54.060 head to order of man.com slash iron council. And I hope to see all of you guys inside.

00:21:59.560 Now let's get back to my conversation with Leif. Yeah, I think that's a great point. I mean,

00:22:04.820 really, really recognizing it through somebody else. And I think if you put yourself in the situation,

00:22:08.820 we talk about leading up the chain of command, but you talk about leading, you know,

00:22:11.420 going down the chain of command too, and disseminating this information to your employees

00:22:15.280 or your children or your family or community or whatever it may be. If you recognize and understand

00:22:20.800 how they're responding to you, I think it's easier for us to see how a boss might necessarily respond

00:22:27.320 to us as well. No doubt. And I think people in leadership positions, I know I certainly never did

00:22:32.340 until I, it was an epiphany that I had at some point that like, wow, your authority carries weight,

00:22:39.260 right? What you say and do really carries weight. And if you make a snide comment or even in a joking

00:22:43.800 manner to somebody that can really hurt some feelings, cause some issues, you know, damage

00:22:48.000 some frictions. You recognize someone in a public forum in front of their peers for doing a good job

00:22:52.700 that has massive power far beyond, you know, what, what you can even recognize. And so I think

00:22:57.220 oftentimes leaders and leadership positions don't fully appreciate just how important and powerful

00:23:02.200 that is. But the, the test for whether or not you're communicating to your team, uh, that you're

00:23:07.120 giving them what they need is really simple. They get it. If they get it and they're doing what, what

00:23:12.720 you, what you need them to do to accomplish their mission to win, then you've done it right. Uh, and

00:23:17.080 you need to figure out a way to become even more effective. You know, we talk about, there's really

00:23:20.220 only two things that matter effective or ineffective. Those are the only two measures that really matter

00:23:25.160 when you're talking about leadership. So, uh, it's, it's, and how do you measure that? The team

00:23:29.340 accomplished the mission. The team didn't accomplish the mission. That's it. So it doesn't matter how

00:23:33.600 hard you're working. Doesn't all those things. It's, uh, you know, and if, if you're ineffective,

00:23:37.700 the team didn't accomplish the mission, you got to figure out a way to get effective. If you are

00:23:41.060 effective, then you got to figure a way to become even more effective and learning and growing all

00:23:44.760 the time and adapting and innovating so that, you know, your enemy doesn't adapt and get the best

00:23:48.600 of you as well. So, uh, I think those are, those are critically important. Uh, but so often I see

00:23:53.660 leaders and I've been in this boat as well, right? That you say, well, I told you guys what to do

00:23:58.080 and you went out and screwed it up. And what is that? And you're making a big excuse, right?

00:24:02.480 Where, you know, either all these people are just knuckleheads that, uh, just can't figure it out.

00:24:06.660 And that's certainly not true. You know, if there's one or two amongst a group of a dozen or

00:24:10.620 more that, uh, you know, that maybe just couldn't figure it out, then you got to train and mentor

00:24:14.900 them and get them to a point where they can't, if they can't, then maybe you have to make the tough

00:24:17.960 call down the road that to let them go and get somebody else that can, but, but it's on you

00:24:22.360 to get your team performing. And so if the team's not doing what you need, it's almost exclusively an issue

00:24:27.660 that, uh, it's your fault. You didn't help them understand. You didn't help them. Uh, you didn't

00:24:32.360 communicate the mission in a manner that they were simple, clear, and concise. You didn't give

00:24:36.100 them the resource that you need, that they needed. You didn't give them the training or the, uh, the

00:24:40.940 mentorship that you should have. And this is, this is the beauty of, of not being in a combat zone.

00:24:46.180 We're not talking about life or death situations here. We're talking about somebody screws up an order.

00:24:50.260 We're talking about somebody getting offended or somebody, you know, maybe even getting sued or

00:24:54.480 something like that. These are all manageable type things. If we go back and we actually learn

00:24:59.140 that, Hey, this didn't work. This did work. Let's tweak, let's change, let's adapt so that we can be

00:25:04.180 better moving forward. And, you know, I think that's something that gets missed from people

00:25:08.500 watch movies or read books about the SEAL teams or really any military unit. It doesn't matter if you're

00:25:12.840 talking about, you know, soldiers, Marines, special operators, it doesn't really matter. Um, people think

00:25:18.100 that, well, the military has their set way of doing things, uh, and that's how they do it. And in particular

00:25:23.140 in the SEAL teams, there's this, this idea that, uh, you know, we, we just have this superhuman ability to

00:25:29.500 perform at the highest levels at all times. Uh, and frankly, that's just not true. Uh, we have some

00:25:35.120 extraordinary guys. We have incredible, you know, incredible capability within those teams. And we take

00:25:40.320 pride in that we have confidence, but we can't ever get cocky. We can't ever get overconfident thinking that we got

00:25:45.000 it all figured out, that the enemy can't, you know, can't hit us and hurt us, uh, or do something that we

00:25:49.640 hadn't expected. So, uh, we have to constantly be learning and adapting and innovating. And those

00:25:54.820 things have to change all the time. Now, one of the favorite, uh, conversations or thread lines in

00:25:59.680 the book that I like about, you talk about decisiveness, you talk about certainty. How do

00:26:03.480 you get some of that decisiveness? How do you build that certainty in a world that has so many different

00:26:07.980 variables? What are the best techniques and strategies to be able to do that? I think the best thing you

00:26:11.740 could do is, is train, you know, training for realistic environments, putting yourself in a

00:26:18.980 similar situation, planning for contingencies, uh, you know, whether it's a role play, whether you're

00:26:24.440 talking to other, other people, or whether it's in a team environment, going through a rehearsal, uh,

00:26:29.600 of how you're going to react to those things enables you to, to be able to perform under pressure.

00:26:34.560 And I think those kinds of things are realistic, repetitive training program that, that dwell,

00:26:39.880 you know, that pushes fundamentals is really key. And that's something that enables us to perform

00:26:44.240 and enables, you know, we wrote a chapter called prioritize and execute. And when you're under

00:26:48.820 pressure, under fire, bullets are flying around, you know, you certainly understand this, you know,

00:26:53.860 haven't been in those, those bloody days were mighty. Uh, it is, it is total chaos. And I think,

00:26:59.440 you know, for young battlefield leaders who have just, you know, graduated from, from our seal

00:27:04.140 training buds, basically underwater, underwater demolition seal training, they, they don't even know what

00:27:08.820 they don't know at this point. Uh, and, and one thing we had to train them on to get them ready

00:27:12.720 for those environments was just how chaotic, just how crazy, just how uncertain the environment was

00:27:17.800 in combat. Uh, you know, and you know, you know, you know, as well as I did patrolling down the

00:27:21.500 streets, bullets are flying around, who's shooting at you, where are they, you know, are they 50 yards

00:27:25.900 away? Are they 300 yards away? Is there two of them? Is there 25 of them? Uh, is it friendly

00:27:30.980 shooting at you accidentally, you know, because they, they, they mistook you for enemy, uh, and you

00:27:35.740 don't want to shoot back at them. So trying to survive in an environment like that is, is very

00:27:40.400 difficult. How do you do it? You have to, uh, particularly when you got men down or guys are

00:27:45.400 wounded and there's, you know, there's all that kind of emotional, emotional issues with it, but

00:27:49.280 you've got a dozen things that have to happen simultaneously. How do you handle it? You can't

00:27:53.800 take on a dozen problems at the same time. So you have to take a step back, figure out what the

00:27:57.980 highest priority is actually toward that highest priority and then move on to the next priority.

00:28:01.760 And it's no different for life. If you think about the contingencies that might happen,

00:28:05.980 I mean, this is going into the grocery store with your kids. And I know you, you got young kids and

00:28:10.120 I'm sure, uh, uh, for me, I got a little two year old wild man who just runs crazy and grocery

00:28:15.060 shopping with him is absolutely nuts. And, uh, and he's got red hair, it sounds like. So that makes

00:28:20.000 him even wilder, right? That's very much the case. Definitely. Uh, as my mom says, I deserve every

00:28:24.740 minute of that because that's exactly what I did to her. Uh, but it is, uh, it's, it's just,

00:28:30.440 it's, it's crazy and it's chaotic and you better have a plan, right? Of, of what you're going to

00:28:33.980 do. Like, where are your muster points? You know, if you lose track of where, where are you going to

00:28:37.920 go? Uh, who are you going to talk to? You know, where are you going to meet up with, uh, your wife

00:28:41.680 after? I mean, every simple things in life, uh, like that, you know, if you can just think through

00:28:45.780 some of those contingencies that might happen, um, you know, whether you're talking about on the

00:28:49.280 athletic playing field or within my business team or, uh, you know, the community organization

00:28:53.760 that I'm a part of, what are the life and contingencies that are going to happen for this

00:28:56.820 particular event that we're going through? If these, those three or four things, if we're

00:29:00.180 prepared for them, if I understand what I'm going to do in the event of those things, we've rehearsed

00:29:04.280 them, we've thought about them, we've, we've talked through them and the team can actually execute

00:29:07.900 knowing what's going to happen in the event that these things go wrong. Uh, then, then we're able

00:29:12.440 to perform at a much higher level through, uh, through some difficult situations, even under,

00:29:17.060 under pressure. So that's exactly what has to happen. Prioritize and execute.

00:29:21.180 Yeah. I mean, this makes sense. We talked about this actually in our Facebook group the other day

00:29:24.780 about situational awareness, but I think you can't be aware. I think you can't do some of

00:29:29.000 these things. If you aren't carving out and creating space for yourself, I think we jam pack

00:29:32.860 our schedules and we've got so much going on that we're literally flying by the seat of our pants

00:29:37.040 and we don't have time to be intentional or even think about what might happen in this case. And if

00:29:41.660 this situation happens, how do I address that? So I really think it's a matter of carving out some

00:29:45.420 time to have some margin in your life. So you can think about these important things.

00:29:49.320 No doubt. I mean, something Jocko taught me is you got to make time for things that are important.

00:29:52.900 And, you know, that's what the 445 club's all about. You know, his, his hashtag 445 club on

00:29:58.340 Twitter and the number of people that are getting up early and training and working out, uh, it's

00:30:03.220 just incredibly inspiring. And so many people use that excuse, right? Well, I didn't have time to do

00:30:08.020 that. I didn't have the time to do that. That is a common human problem, you know, across all cultures

00:30:13.340 and civilizations, uh, that, uh, I just don't have enough time. And so you've got to make time for

00:30:17.800 those things that are important. When do you have time where you can make time late at night or early

00:30:21.820 morning, generally early morning is best when you could get up early, knock out a workout, get some

00:30:26.220 stuff done, you know, make some things happen when the rest of the world is asleep. When your enemies

00:30:30.520 are asleep, you know, your competitors are asleep. Uh, and, and that's, uh, one, one, one way that

00:30:36.800 Jocko showed us that was we go out and we train the Southern California deserts a lot like, you know,

00:30:42.260 Southern Utah where you are, it's a rugged environment. It's awesome training. You go out there,

00:30:46.440 there's rocks, there's cactus, there's rattlesnakes, there's every, every bush out there has got,

00:30:51.220 you know, thorns on it. Uh, and it's just dry. It's hot. It's, uh, it's freezing cold in the

00:30:56.560 wintertime. It's miserably hot in the summertime. And it is an awesome environment. It's a place where

00:31:01.340 seals have trained since the Vietnam war and, uh, really help, help keep guys alive in that kind of

00:31:06.100 difficult, rugged, rugged environment where you're carrying a, you know, 215 pound guy with 50 pounds of

00:31:11.100 gear on up and over the mountains and, and, uh, through serious rugged terrain, uh, you know,

00:31:17.380 shooting and moving and communicating, uh, the whole time and learning how to work together as a

00:31:21.300 team. And, but in that environment, you know, we would, uh, when it's 115 degrees in the, in the

00:31:26.040 summertime, we generally go late into the night. So you finish up at one or two o'clock in the morning

00:31:30.140 and generally you get up and start, uh, start the briefing at 7.00 AM to try to get going, you know,

00:31:34.560 before the day got, uh, got too hot as well. So not a lot of sleep in that environment. And often guys are

00:31:39.920 like, you know, well, this is BS. We don't have enough time to work out, you know, and that needs

00:31:43.580 to be built in the schedule. And sure. And Jocko would just say, you know what, you should have,

00:31:48.180 you should have gotten up earlier. Why didn't you get up at four 30 and work out? Well, I didn't go

00:31:52.120 to bed until two is like, okay, whatever. Is it important to work out? Okay. If it's important to

00:31:56.440 work out, then you got to make time for, okay. So maybe you sleep into five 15, but get, get your ass

00:32:01.200 out of bed, go hit the gym, you know, crank out a good workout, get yourself, you know, to maintain

00:32:06.280 that, uh, you know, that physical fitness that, you know, is critical for your job.

00:32:09.920 Uh, and then you could come to the brief at seven and you're fired up and you're ready to go. And

00:32:13.060 that workout's better than any cup of coffee you're going to drink to get you ready for the day. So,

00:32:16.900 you know, I think that's a health, our team's going to perform at a very high level, you know,

00:32:20.620 and that, uh, that mantra that he lives by and really taught me and taught the rest of us is,

00:32:24.120 is discipline equals freedom. That if you, you want the freedom to perform at a high level,

00:32:27.720 you got to have the discipline to do the hard work, uh, you know, to get you there. And that's,

00:32:32.480 that's really what, uh, what waking up early is all about.

00:32:35.040 Yeah. Such a powerful concept. I want to talk about, you're talking about carving out time for the

00:32:38.900 things that are important. What are some of the things that you specifically and personally

00:32:42.060 carve out for yourself that are like non-negotiables? I have to get these things

00:32:45.720 done because they energize me, they uplift me and they make me a better man.

00:32:50.160 Workouts is, uh, is one of the most important things. You know, I, I found, uh, getting out of

00:32:54.780 the Navy is a hard thing for me and it probably was, was for you as well, right? When you leave the

00:32:58.220 military and you're not surrounded by a group of, uh, of guys, you know, these alpha males that,

00:33:01.880 that are pushing each other hard, uh, and, uh, and, and training at a very high level.

00:33:06.940 Uh, and that competition is, is drives you, you know, it's, it's kind of like the, you know,

00:33:11.100 the proverbs, uh, iron, iron sharpens iron, uh, one man sharpens another, right? So it's, uh,

00:33:16.600 that is a very critical thing. It's, it's, that's something that I missed being, being out of the

00:33:21.800 seal teams, uh, on my own. And so I recognize right away, you know, I got injured. Uh, I was on an elk

00:33:27.060 hunt with my dad up in the mountains of New Mexico, tore my ACL, uh, about two months after I

00:33:32.100 left, uh, left the military that put, that sent me back so, so bad just for months of not being able

00:33:37.560 to train hard. And, uh, and so that I, I recognized just how important that was for me, for my own

00:33:43.500 mental capacity to be able to think and react and, and, and for my own self-discipline and for my,

00:33:49.460 uh, you know, for my confidence level, you know, just to, to be able to make, to get back on a path

00:33:53.960 where I could train hard, uh, and not be injured and overcome some of these injuries where I can

00:33:58.660 actually maintain that, that physical training. So that for me is, is all important. And if I don't

00:34:03.540 get up and do it at four 30 in the morning, four 45 in the morning, it just doesn't get done. It's,

00:34:08.760 it's gotta be done then, uh, early morning. So that's, that's a big one for me. The other thing

00:34:13.500 I realized right away too, with our business is we got busy and we travel a lot and we're on the road

00:34:17.700 a lot. And those, you know, that has been an amazing blessing for us. Uh, all the doors have been

00:34:21.760 open to us, uh, and the opportunities with, with our business through our book, extreme ownership,

00:34:25.880 uh, and the leadership programs that we want to run through echelon front. Uh, but I've realized

00:34:30.200 I gotta make time to be a husband. I gotta make time to be a dad as well. And so it's, it's critical

00:34:35.220 for me to build that into the schedule, uh, where that is a non-negotiable, like, Hey, you know what?

00:34:39.320 Can I reschedule this call for another time? Sure. You know, can I, can I bump that meeting to

00:34:43.320 another time? Sure. I gotta make time to spend, you know, it's time with my son, spend time with my,

00:34:48.140 you know, my young daughter, uh, spend time with my wife to take her out on a date, you know, if,

00:34:52.540 uh, you know, we don't get to see each other, but, but, uh, in the evenings when, uh, you know,

00:34:57.000 after the kids are put to bed and she's exhausted and, you know, there's not a lot of, not a time for

00:35:01.400 chitchat or, or whatnot. So, uh, I think those things are cool. Uh, same thing for me, you know,

00:35:06.060 for my family and trying to build in some of the things, uh, one of the things I really love to do is

00:35:10.600 hunt and fish and, uh, spend time in the outdoors. And, uh, frankly, uh, living in New York city for,

00:35:16.020 for the last few years, it's been very hard to do that. I'm a native Texan, small town boy, uh,

00:35:21.600 and, and, you know, living in San Diego for 12 years. I mean, I spent a lot of time in the water

00:35:25.220 surfing almost every day, uh, you know, growing up in Texas, hunting and fishing. And that was just a

00:35:29.600 big part of what I, what I did. So, uh, I I've realized I've got to make time for those things.

00:35:33.980 It is important to go out and be out in the, in the natural world, uh, you know, where you're away

00:35:39.920 from the cell phone, away from the computer, spending time with your, your good friends and that,

00:35:43.600 that camaraderie, you know, the band of brothers that you've talked about in previous podcasts

00:35:47.480 that I think is so important and you got to do that. And it's, uh, it's just something that,

00:35:51.580 uh, you know, Jace Robertson from, uh, from the duck dynasty, uh, show the Robertson family are great.

00:35:57.160 Sure. Yeah. He he's, uh, he's somebody that taught me that, you know, his, his quote was,

00:36:01.060 if you, if you're too busy to hunt and fish, you're too busy. And so, uh, I have been too busy over

00:36:06.540 the last two or three years building this business. Um, and I know I've got to plug in some more time

00:36:10.700 for family, some more time for outdoor activities, some more time for hunting and fishing and doing

00:36:14.760 those kinds of things that, you know, surfing and the kind of things that I love to do.

00:36:18.180 And, uh, and that's just critical. It's just critical for, you know, my own wellbeing,

00:36:22.380 for my own fulfillment. Uh, and it just makes me a better person. Uh, it makes me less stressed.

00:36:27.420 It makes me better when I go back to work and sit in front of those emails, uh, to, to be better

00:36:31.680 at what I'm doing. Well, we're coming up on hunting season. So I expect to see some pictures of

00:36:35.960 you being out there and hunting. So I'm going to do my utmost. We're winding down on time.

00:36:40.240 There is one concept I wanted to talk with you about, and I think this might be a good one to

00:36:43.080 kind of cap what we're talking about, because we are talking about leadership and how to be a better

00:36:46.160 leader. One of the things that you guys talk a lot about is that there's no bad teams. There's

00:36:49.760 only bad leaders. Can you expound on that a little bit? I can. It was, uh, it's a tough concept. It is

00:36:55.660 a very humbling concept. And I, and I talked about, uh, you know, that, that humility coming,

00:37:01.180 coming back from the battlefield, uh, this recognition of extreme ownership requires humility. And I think

00:37:05.760 if you recognize that there are no bad teams, only bad leaders, I mean, it's exactly what we

00:37:10.100 were talking about previously. So many people want to just blame the team. If my team was better,

00:37:15.100 you know, I should just fire all these people and just hire more people. I was talking to a,

00:37:19.140 a, uh, CEO, uh, not too long ago who just said my sales team sucks. They're not getting the job done.

00:37:24.760 I need to just, you know, fire all them and get new, new ones. And, you know, having worked with a

00:37:29.760 sales team, I recognize right away, like, look, listen, you've got a couple of people that

00:37:33.080 probably do need to get fired. Uh, and I've actually been trying to tell you that for the

00:37:35.760 last six months. Uh, but you're not making the tough calls to make that happen. You've also got

00:37:39.900 two or three people, you know, out of this team of a dozen or more folks that are rock stars. I mean,

00:37:45.640 these people are awesome and yet you're not letting them go do their thing. You're not,

00:37:49.600 they're frustrated. They're angry. They're there. You know, they feel like they can't even make a

00:37:53.700 decision without you, you know, you pulling the reins on them and you're letting them develop a

00:37:58.020 training program and run those teams and go out there and achieve success. So it's so easy

00:38:02.680 as a leader to just make an excuse, right. To blame it on your team and say, if I had a better

00:38:07.080 team, then, uh, then we'd be better. And the reality is that just not true. I mean, you can

00:38:11.360 look at any all-star team out there. Often an all-star team, you, you pull all these rock stars

00:38:16.420 together and they get crushed. I mean, I saw that in the SEAL teams. There, there were some,

00:38:20.440 some of the best SEALs that I ever got a chance to, to work with, uh, who were in units who just

00:38:25.500 didn't have very good leaders in, in those units. And even though the caliber of the

00:38:30.200 individual, uh, for the most part in those teams was outstanding, they did not perform

00:38:34.460 well at all as a team because they just didn't have leaders to, to, to be the forcing function

00:38:39.660 to get all of them working together. So if, if, as a leader, you can recognize that there

00:38:43.280 are no bad teams, only bad leaders. If my team is failing, whose fault is that? It's my fault.

00:38:47.900 It starts with me. You know, we illustrated that in the book with this concept of a Bud's boat

00:38:52.060 crew going through our SEAL training, uh, and how one boat crew was failing and one boat crew

00:38:56.460 was succeeding. And all we did was swap the leaders out to just see, you know, what would

00:39:00.540 happen in this event. And, and lo and behold, the boat crew that had been failing and it was the

00:39:05.340 worst boat crew in, in, in the class of students, all of a sudden became the best boat crew by putting

00:39:10.080 the best leader in there. And so we, Jocko and I saw that over and over and over again in different

00:39:14.240 units. If you had a unit that was struggling, that unit's failing. We pulled, you know, that leader

00:39:18.640 ends up getting fired and you put a new leader in and all of a sudden that unit completely

00:39:22.780 turns around a new, you know, new platoon, new task unit is doing amazing things to the same

00:39:27.640 people with just different leadership. Uh, and it's all of a sudden goes from worst to best

00:39:31.740 just simply by, by the leader. So that should humble people to think about, because it certainly

00:39:36.440 does me. I think about when I made excuses. I think about when I screwed up and I blamed my team

00:39:40.860 and say, if we were just better, you know, that, then, uh, that, you know, that other team got lucky

00:39:44.660 over there. They've got, they've got good people and that's why they're doing better. Uh, and the reality

00:39:48.320 is that's just not true. If I was a better leader, if I led the team, if I got them

00:39:51.840 trained better and focused better, focused on the mission, worked on the fundamentals,

00:39:56.860 you know, uh, really went through some repetitive training that got us working together,

00:40:00.200 practice and rehearsed and prepared for contingencies so we could prioritize and execute

00:40:04.240 under extreme circumstances, then we would be better. And, uh, and so if a leader takes that

00:40:09.160 attitude, uh, their team is going to run circles around another team. Even if that team has some

00:40:13.760 individuals that are even more capable than, uh, than their team, uh, just a leader that takes

00:40:19.660 ownership and has that attitude, it's going to make all the difference.

00:40:22.640 Yeah. So powerful. So powerful. So I want to ask you a couple of questions as we wind down

00:40:26.440 here. And the first one I want to ask you, I did prepare you for this and we even talked

00:40:29.480 a little bit about this before we hit record. So I'm anxious to hear your answer. And that

00:40:32.480 question is, what does it mean to be a man?

00:40:34.940 Well, I think it's, uh, I think it's awesome what you're doing here with order, man. I mean,

00:40:38.680 I think there's so much in our society today as Americans, it is a sad for me to see just

00:40:46.240 the emasculation of the American male where folks will come up to me and say, you know,

00:40:51.840 you sure, you wouldn't let your son play football, would you? Uh, and I'm like, hell yeah, I'm

00:40:56.280 gonna let him play. I'm gonna encourage him to play football. I love football. You know,

00:40:59.460 high school football was awesome for me, you know, and growing up in rural Southeast Texas,

00:41:03.640 high school football was huge and I loved it. And it was, it was a great shaping experience

00:41:07.640 for me, gave me, you know, the, the, uh, a great work ethic and, and, and understanding

00:41:12.040 discipline and teamwork, uh, and leadership as well, you know, as a, as a captain. So I thought

00:41:17.300 those, those things were awesome. Uh, people ask me as well, like, well, you know, would you let

00:41:20.740 your, would you let your son join the SEAL teams? That's such a crazy, you know, crazy question.

00:41:25.380 Of course, I would encourage him to join the SEAL teams. That was a tremendous experience for me.

00:41:30.200 It will always be one of the best parts of my life. Uh, and I'd love for him to follow my footsteps

00:41:34.180 if he'd like to do that. I'm not going to push him in that direction. Uh, you know, if he doesn't

00:41:37.980 want to go that way, I want him to go and fulfill his dreams. Uh, and I'll encourage him to

00:41:41.780 fill those dreams, whatever they may be. But, uh, I want him to be a man. I want to teach him to be

00:41:46.200 a man. I want him to, uh, to understand, uh, you know, what that's about. And so I think that's

00:41:50.300 a big piece that's missing in America today. And so we, we need men to step up, to be leaders in

00:41:57.460 their families, you know, to, to be leaders as dads, as husbands, to be leaders in their, in our

00:42:03.220 communities, uh, as well. And, uh, and to be strong and tough. Uh, and that's really what has been

00:42:08.400 the foundation of America as, as a student of history. I see that when you read about things

00:42:13.500 like World War II and, and, and these questions that people had, you know, uh, can we really

00:42:18.020 defeat this, this incredibly experienced German army in Europe or the, the, the Japanese and

00:42:23.360 in the jungle environments on, on Pacific islands, you know, can, can America possibly, you know,

00:42:28.900 have soldiers and Marines that are going to go out and defeat this, this, uh, highly experienced,

00:42:33.380 highly successful enemy that nobody else was able to stop. And the answer was yes. You know,

00:42:37.100 even when people had questions of that. So, uh, we got to make sure that America maintains,

00:42:40.460 uh, that I think it's awesome what you're doing. Uh, it's, it's, uh, uh, Jaco and I certainly are

00:42:44.900 proud to be a small part of, uh, uh, of the order man podcast. Awesome. Well, we're glad to have you

00:42:50.620 for sure. So Leif, what's the best way to connect with you? Uh, how do, how do we get the book? How do

00:42:54.460 we connect with you? And then I know also if you briefly discuss the extreme ownership muster

00:42:58.580 that's coming up in October as well, I know some of the guys would be interested in that.

00:43:02.340 Absolutely. I mean, I think people that are interested can, can, uh, just go to Amazon,

00:43:06.400 go to, you can Google, uh, uh, extreme ownership, how us Navy SEALs lead and win that book can be

00:43:11.640 sold. Uh, is sold everywhere. Uh, books are sold. You know, if they're interested in that,

00:43:15.520 uh, our website is echelonfront.com. That's E-C-H-E-L-O-N-F-R-O-N-T.com. Uh, and so you,

00:43:23.000 you can actually access the book that way, uh, and, and find out about our company and what we're

00:43:26.940 doing and what Jaco and I've got going on. Uh, and then you can actually link to our muster as well.

00:43:32.020 We're having a leadership conference that we're putting together, uh, this October 20th and 21st

00:43:37.040 in San Diego. We're calling it extreme ownership muster. There's a link on our echelonfront.com

00:43:41.300 website. You can also go to extremeownership.com as well. And, uh, what the muster is, is it's a

00:43:48.260 gathering together of leaders and aspiring leaders. Those we've had so much demand, uh, for, uh, me and

00:43:54.900 Jaco to be able to come in and speak. Uh, and frankly, we just can't get everywhere. So, uh, and we've,

00:43:59.680 you know, one of the ways we had to do that, uh, you know, we had to limit ourselves from just being

00:44:03.560 on the road all the time was raise prices. And, uh, so we had so many people that say,

00:44:07.520 Hey, you know, my company didn't have the budget to bring you in, but is there an event that we

00:44:11.360 could come to and participate in? Uh, and, and, and the growing demand for that really encouraged us

00:44:15.840 to hold this, this muster in San Diego. Uh, we're super excited for it. Uh, and what it is going to be

00:44:21.120 is just for the leaders and aspiring leaders and anyone to better themselves. It is, uh, it's just,

00:44:26.580 it's going to be one of those things where Jaco and I are going to make this a highly interactive

00:44:29.980 program. We're going to put out some information, talk about the principles of combat leadership

00:44:34.360 that we talk about in extreme ownership, how they apply to business and life, but make much of that

00:44:38.920 to be interactive with Q and a, uh, and, and discussion with participants. We've already got

00:44:44.820 over 200 registrants for that. Uh, and we'd love to have as many people as, as want to come to it.

00:44:49.380 But frankly, it's, it's, it's something we're super fired up about so that we can help people

00:44:53.600 solve challenges, apply this stuff directly to their lives so that they can implement

00:44:58.300 extreme ownership to lead and win. Awesome. We're going to make sure we link all that stuff

00:45:01.800 up in the show notes so guys can check that out. Leif, I just want to let you know, I appreciate

00:45:04.700 you. I really do. I appreciate you coming on the show. I appreciate your service to our country.

00:45:08.140 I appreciate you, who you are as a man and then, and then having the courage to share some of this

00:45:12.480 stuff because I know it's been impactful in my life. I know it's been impactful in the guys that

00:45:16.460 listen to this podcast lives. So again, I want to thank you and I want to let you know,

00:45:19.460 I appreciate all that you do and who you are. Well, thank you, Ryan. Thanks for having me on.

00:45:23.120 It's awesome to be on with you today. Thanks for what you're doing. Thanks for your service

00:45:26.500 to our country and keep up the great work. There you have it, man. Leif Babin teaching

00:45:31.500 us what it takes to have extreme ownership in your life. I've recommended this book,

00:45:35.700 Extreme Ownership, over and over and over again. And if you haven't read it yet,

00:45:38.680 you need to pick up your copy. If you guys implement what Leif and Jocko talk about,

00:45:42.620 it has the power to change your life. Now, in the meantime, make sure you go learn about our

00:45:46.360 elite mastermind, The Iron Council. It's comprised of over a hundred men,

00:45:49.780 all working to be the very best versions of themselves and committed to helping

00:45:52.880 each other succeed. So you can check out all the details at orderofman.com slash ironcouncil.

00:45:58.260 Also guys, make sure you check out our Order of Man store, which just launched a couple of weeks

00:46:01.960 ago at orderofman.com slash store for the best looking gear for men. Guys, I look forward to

00:46:07.220 talk with you on Friday, but until then take action and become the man you were meant to be.

00:46:11.660 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast. If you're ready to take charge of your life

00:46:16.240 and be more of the man you were meant to be, we invite you to join the Order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - September 13, 2016

OoM 078： Extreme Ownership with Leif Babin

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