Order of Man - OoM 082： Confronted with Violence with Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman

00:00:00.000 Men, we are needed today more than ever.

00:00:02.000 We as a species are being confronted with more and more violence each and every day.

00:00:05.840 My guest today, Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman,

00:00:08.020 a leading expert in the field of psychology and physiology of violence,

00:00:11.780 shares with us why homicide rates are skyrocketing,

00:00:14.400 why the world needs more sheepdogs,

00:00:16.240 what happens to our bodies when we're in combat,

00:00:18.400 and how to handle yourself when confronted with violence.

00:00:21.820 You're a man of action.

00:00:23.240 You live life to the fullest.

00:00:24.720 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:27.380 When life knocks you down, you get back up.

00:00:30.120 One more time, every time.

00:00:32.140 You are not easily deterred or defeated.

00:00:34.400 Rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:37.160 This is your life.

00:00:38.280 This is who you are.

00:00:39.660 This is who you will become.

00:00:41.360 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:44.480 you can call yourself a man.

00:00:46.860 Men, what is going on today?

00:00:47.880 My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and founder of Order of Man.

00:00:50.840 Now, whether you're new to the show today or you've been a longtime listener,

00:00:53.380 I want to welcome you, and I want to thank you for making the order of what it is today.

00:00:58.160 Man, we have such a great show lined up for you guys.

00:01:00.780 This is easily, easily one of my favorite interviews.

00:01:03.720 Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman had me hanging on literally every single word.

00:01:07.860 You probably know by now that sometimes I like to hear myself talk,

00:01:11.360 but I don't talk much in this show because I think it's important that we as men

00:01:14.160 know when to talk and when to shut up,

00:01:15.880 and this is definitely one of those times where I just needed to listen,

00:01:18.980 and I'm sure that you will feel the same way.

00:01:21.140 Now, before we get into the show today,

00:01:22.720 know that all the show notes available for this show

00:01:24.800 can be found at orderofman.com slash 082.

00:01:28.680 And then, guys, make sure you join our closed Facebook group.

00:01:30.840 I know there's a lot of you over there already,

00:01:32.720 but some of you have not joined.

00:01:34.360 Go to facebook.com slash group slash orderofman.

00:01:37.180 We now have over 8,400 men from across the planet,

00:01:40.420 and we're diving deeper into conversations about masculinity

00:01:43.780 and all the topics that are important to you.

00:01:45.880 Now, I'm going to talk a little bit more about the Iron Council during our break,

00:01:48.720 but if you're looking, guys, to team up with a group of like-minded men,

00:01:52.100 now these are men who want to succeed and want to see you succeed,

00:01:55.500 I need you to take a look at our elite mastermind, the Iron Council.

00:01:58.740 You can get the details for that at orderofman.com slash ironcouncil.

00:02:02.800 Now, enough of that.

00:02:03.720 I'm stoked, guys, to get into this conversation today.

00:02:05.760 This is a man who has a ton to say

00:02:07.280 and probably shares one of the best answers

00:02:09.480 regarding what it means to be a man,

00:02:11.220 so make sure you stick around to the very end of this show.

00:02:14.100 Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman is a retired airborne ranger,

00:02:17.360 infantry officer, and prior service sergeant and paratrooper

00:02:20.460 with a total of over 23 years' experience leading U.S. soldiers worldwide.

00:02:25.220 He's also an internationally recognized scholar, author, soldier, and speaker

00:02:28.840 who's one of the world's foremost experts in the field of human aggression

00:02:32.100 and the roots of violence and violent crime.

00:02:34.080 Colonel Grossman is a former West Point psychology professor,

00:02:37.200 professor of military science,

00:02:38.420 and is an army ranger who has a combined experience

00:02:40.880 to become the founder of a new field of scientific endeavor,

00:02:44.120 which he has termed killology.

00:02:45.440 He has made revolutionary new contributions to our understanding about killing and war,

00:02:49.940 the psychological cost of war,

00:02:51.320 the root causes of the current virus of violent crime

00:02:53.680 that is literally raging around the world,

00:02:55.940 and the process of healing the victims of violence and war and peace.

00:02:59.000 His books on killing and on combat have also been placed on the U.S. Marine Corps command,

00:03:02.700 its required reading list.

00:03:04.300 He has presented papers before the national conventions,

00:03:06.120 the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association,

00:03:09.640 the American Psychological Association,

00:03:11.200 and the American Academy of Pediatrics.

00:03:13.740 Colonel Grossman has presented to over 100 different colleges and universities worldwide

00:03:17.820 and has trained educators and law enforcement professionals

00:03:20.080 in the field of school safety at the state and regional level in all 50 states

00:03:24.240 and over a dozen foreign nations.

00:03:26.400 Colonel Grossman, thanks for joining me on the show today.

00:03:29.920 I'm glad you're here.

00:03:30.520 My pleasure, Ron.

00:03:31.240 I'm a big fan of what you've been doing.

00:03:32.600 I'm proud to be part of it.

00:03:34.060 Thank you.

00:03:34.540 Thank you.

00:03:34.800 Well, the feeling's mutual.

00:03:35.700 I've told you before, and I'm telling the guys right now,

00:03:37.500 I've followed you and your work for some time now,

00:03:39.140 so it is an honor to have you on the show.

00:03:40.860 I want to lead off with,

00:03:41.980 I really am curious as to why you've made this your life's work,

00:03:45.340 is the study, the psychology of combat and killing,

00:03:48.360 and I'm really curious about your take on this.

00:03:50.480 You know, Ron, I want to zoom up for a second

00:03:52.920 and then zoom into that particular question.

00:03:55.380 The sound's off topic.

00:03:56.840 You stay with me.

00:03:57.420 It's not.

00:03:58.020 The necktie.

00:03:59.200 The necktie has been men's fashion for over 100 years.

00:04:03.320 Fashions come and go.

00:04:04.640 The necktie's always there.

00:04:05.840 Color changes, skinny, wide.

00:04:07.920 It's always there.

00:04:09.340 And it's kind of unique.

00:04:10.640 It's the one fashion that women almost never wear. 0.98

00:04:12.800 When women wear it, it's rare and demeaning. 1.00

00:04:16.480 It starts at your crotch. 0.99

00:04:17.860 It comes up to your neck. 0.99

00:04:19.020 It's got a big knob on the end. 1.00

00:04:20.460 It's a dick. 1.00

00:04:21.680 We're all wearing dicks. 1.00

00:04:23.440 Interesting, yeah. 0.99

00:04:24.200 It's not just a phallic symbol.

00:04:25.180 It's a phallus.

00:04:26.600 And I'm telling you, 100 years from now,

00:04:28.920 people will look at all the photographs of all these people 0.99

00:04:31.520 and say they're all wearing dicks. 1.00

00:04:33.760 The president says they're all wearing this dick. 1.00

00:04:35.760 They've got this big thing built up there. 1.00

00:04:37.220 It's got a big knob on the end.

00:04:38.760 And we can't see it.

00:04:39.800 And I tell my cops, you know, I said, look, you know, you and your partner walk up to the front door with your suit on and your big red tie on.

00:04:47.500 And the monkey brain, the reason why the tie stayed in fashion is because at an unconscious level, the monkey brain looks at that and is intimidated.

00:04:56.380 We turn all this off when we go to the tuxedo, you know, when we all wear our tuxedos, we all put our ties away.

00:05:04.720 When people are wearing tuxedos, the tie looks really weird.

00:05:07.320 It's out of place.

00:05:08.560 But the rest of the time, we're all in this kind of posturing mode. 0.64

00:05:12.200 And I tell my detective, you come to the front door with your big power tie on and the other guy doesn't, the monkey brain is immediately intimidated.

00:05:19.400 But be careful who you try to intimidate.

00:05:21.280 You know, don't stand up in a tie in front of a bunch of cops.

00:05:24.460 You know, when you're the only one with a suit on, they don't because you can't push cops, they push back.

00:05:29.040 Yeah, I bet. 0.99

00:05:29.400 The point of all that is, number one, I want to be the first one to go on record saying the emperor has no clothes and, dude, why are we all wearing dicks? 0.97

00:05:38.040 But number two, it's really, really hard to look at yourself, to look at your culture, and to truly see what's there. 0.87

00:05:50.640 And the tie to me is that evidence that, you know, I've been given a little bit of a gift in a few areas to be able to see things clearly.

00:06:00.400 Violence is that area that I've dedicated my lifetime to, and there's other areas.

00:06:04.400 And I was a young paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne Division, 1974, Vietnam veterans all around us, and we wanted to know what combat was like.

00:06:16.980 And they wouldn't tell us.

00:06:19.920 It's like wanting to know about sex, you know, but nobody would even tell you.

00:06:23.800 And so I was a young paratrooper.

00:06:27.140 I went to officer candidate school with just two years of college.

00:06:30.000 I got, you know, on the weekends, and I got a two-year degree to go to OCS.

00:06:35.500 The Army gave me 18 months to finish off my bachelor's degree as a young captain.

00:06:40.860 And all I've ever done since I was 18 years old is get up and beat my head against a big green wall, do morning PT, and work 12-hour days.

00:06:49.160 And I thought that was all there was in life.

00:06:51.440 And I realized, you know, all I had to do was go to college for 18 months.

00:06:54.760 And I said, I like this.

00:06:56.200 I want more of this.

00:06:58.100 Yeah.

00:06:58.440 So I applied to get a graduate degree on the Army's time.

00:07:03.000 And the Army selected me to get a degree in psychology en route to Westmore.

00:07:07.340 I said, psychology?

00:07:09.260 I don't want no stinking psychology.

00:07:10.960 I'm an Army Ranger. 0.99

00:07:11.920 I'm a beady-eyed killer.

00:07:13.040 I'm a military historian.

00:07:14.760 Right.

00:07:15.320 You're a soldier.

00:07:16.080 Yeah.

00:07:16.400 If I'm going to study psychology, I want to study the psychology of killing.

00:07:21.600 And not homicide, but lawful killing, cops and military.

00:07:26.560 When I first began to study it, I thought what is at the heart of the military and the heart of combat was the killing.

00:07:33.460 And my first book on killing translated to eight languages, Pulitzer, nominated by the author, by the publisher, international bestseller, perennial bestseller, just established itself as a true work in the field.

00:07:47.980 It came out in 1995.

00:07:49.860 Here we are, you know, more than 20 years later with the book still selling more than ever.

00:07:55.620 But it was my first shot at understanding the mystery of combat.

00:07:59.740 And I really was able to dissect killing.

00:08:01.660 But what I began to understand is that for those who fully prepare themselves, killing is just not that big a deal.

00:08:09.740 An 18-year-old kid drafted off the street, a few show up months later, kills somebody that doesn't have no harm.

00:08:15.260 It can be traumatic and it takes work.

00:08:17.780 But I began to understand how we teach people to kill.

00:08:20.900 And that was important.

00:08:21.680 Because if you understand how we teach soldiers and cops to kill and how we have to do it, how it's not a natural act, then we understand how the video games are doing the same thing to our kids and what violent visual imagery is doing to our kids.

00:08:35.860 And as men, I tell you that we need to protect children, first and foremost.

00:08:40.760 That's one of the definitions of a man is somebody who's dedicated to protecting our young.

00:08:45.800 And violent visual imagery inflicted upon children is child abuse.

00:08:51.240 We're beginning to find out now.

00:08:52.400 We've got the brain scan studies.

00:08:54.320 Fight or flight data floods through their brain.

00:08:56.780 We have got to protect them.

00:08:59.020 There's all kinds of things as men that we can do.

00:09:01.260 You know, alcohol, tobacco, sex.

00:09:03.740 And they're all child abuse that can inflict it upon your children.

00:09:06.200 And as men, we might like violent video games.

00:09:09.380 We might like violent movies.

00:09:10.580 And that's fine.

00:09:11.280 You're an adult.

00:09:12.520 But if you inflict it upon your children, it's like inflicting alcohol or tobacco or sex on your children.

00:09:18.480 And that's what this study made me so intensely aware of is how we teach people to kill, what it does to people, and how it can become terribly harmful to our children.

00:09:29.740 So my second book, I retired from the Army.

00:09:33.160 I was speaking.

00:09:34.400 I've been on the road.

00:09:35.060 I retired, Ryan, in just a few months.

00:09:37.900 It'll be the 19th anniversary of my retirement.

00:09:41.040 And I've been on the road, truly, almost 300 days a year for 19 years.

00:09:45.060 Oh, my goodness.

00:09:46.020 Lots of travel.

00:09:46.720 Yeah, I have an intense sense of urgency.

00:09:49.160 I love my high school sweetheart, my bride of 41 years.

00:09:52.260 I get home one, maybe two nights a week.

00:09:54.180 Conjugal visit, clean underwear, back on.

00:09:57.020 But in that time, I retired in 1997, late 97.

00:10:01.580 And in that time between 97 and 9-11, I became aware that what was really important was all the things around killing, auditory exclusion, slow motion time, tunnel vision, memory loss, memory distortions.

00:10:22.680 The fact that the vast majority of people in combat don't hear their shots.

00:10:26.960 We have got to know these things before we get into combat.

00:10:31.440 We get into any life and death event, whether it's you using a firearm to defend your loved ones, whether it's you just standing up to protect others, how the body responds to violence, what the body does.

00:10:42.900 That is what was important.

00:10:45.720 The killing is just like the unnecessary outcome.

00:10:49.300 And for those who are fully prepared themselves, it's not that big a deal.

00:10:52.940 The thing we need to know about was all in my book on combat.

00:10:56.360 So the war begins, and I had been working with police.

00:11:00.280 I've been training police daily.

00:11:02.520 And every day, people who have been in life and death events, people who had to take lives, people who are shot at, were talking to me in this interactive feedback loop.

00:11:12.440 And that became my second book and my most important book on combat.

00:11:15.480 And the only area where we could get that information was law enforcement.

00:11:20.100 When the war began and suddenly we're deploying people in combat for the last 15 years straight, my book became truly the most important book that we have to give to our troops.

00:11:32.480 Marine Corps Commandant's required reading list, Army and Air Force recommended reading list.

00:11:37.260 In all those cases, both on combat and on killing.

00:11:40.260 But far and away, on combat is a more important book.

00:11:43.720 So that's a long-winded way of going about my study of this taboo topic of lawful killing and then the reality of what's in combat, how my book on combat came about, and how it was just almost magically there.

00:11:59.380 This clear insight into what happens to the mind and body and how it's been validated in 15 years of war.

00:12:06.320 You know, in time of war, the things that don't work are gone fast. 0.99

00:12:11.820 The stupid stuff that gets you killed is gone in the first couple of years of war. 0.99

00:12:16.640 And what's left is what works. 0.99

00:12:18.640 And my books on combat and on killing have really vindicated themselves across all these years of war as key tools for anybody to use to prepare themselves for that life and death event, to function under stress.

00:12:31.140 Yeah, I mean, this is a book I wish I would have had in 2005, 2006 is when I went to Iraq.

00:12:37.120 Excuse me.

00:12:37.620 I was in Ramadi in those years, and it would have been valuable for me and some of the other soldiers to have this as well.

00:12:42.500 But I guess it wasn't required reading at the time.

00:12:44.280 You went through a lot of information right there.

00:12:46.420 And I definitely want to get into the idea of auditory exclusion and some of the other things that our body does.

00:12:51.740 I think you call them, if I remember correctly, is it perceptual distortions?

00:12:55.380 Is that what you call those things?

00:12:57.300 Okay, so we're going to talk about that.

00:12:58.620 I do want to go back to one thing you said.

00:13:00.380 You said you were surrounded by veterans early in your enlistment days, and they didn't want to talk about what combat was actually like.

00:13:07.600 What was the reasoning behind that?

00:13:09.580 And then how did you finally get to this position where you could have some of these real conversations?

00:13:14.820 Because I know you've interviewed hundreds if not thousands of soldiers about the idea of combat.

00:13:18.940 Well, you know, what happened was I was an Army Ranger, an infantry captain, en route to be a West Point psychology professor,

00:13:27.580 getting a degree and writing a thesis on the topic, and suddenly they would talk to me.

00:13:33.440 You know, it's kind of like if somebody on the street or one of your kids wants to ask about your sex life, you're not going to tell them.

00:13:40.700 But if Masters and Johnson is doing some scholarly work and they're, you know, this question is about their work.

00:13:46.920 But the point is, if it's some accepted scholarship about sex and about somebody who truly has a scholarly reason to use and to assess the information,

00:13:58.620 all of a sudden they're willing to talk to you.

00:14:01.620 That was really the amazing thing was that as a young private, as a young sergeant, they weren't going to say.

00:14:07.640 But as a West Point psychology professor, as an Army Ranger, as an infantry officer, these Vietnam veterans, these cops were willing to talk to me.

00:14:17.820 And then there was this interactive feedback loop in my presentations where I would do a presentation to a veterans group, to a military unit, to a law enforcement unit.

00:14:27.200 And then they would come up and say, here's what happened to me.

00:14:30.260 And suddenly we had a frame of reference.

00:14:32.180 My first book on killing was in a draft format for years, and it rotated among the veterans community.

00:14:40.220 And these were the 18-year-old Vietnam draftees, and it was hard for a lot of them.

00:14:46.000 And it would go from veteran's wife to veteran's wife, and early draft copies of copies.

00:14:50.640 Back in the days, we had to mimeograph, you know, Xerox them off.

00:14:53.760 And the wife would come to her husband and say, is this what it was like for you? 0.98

00:14:58.060 And he'd say, well, let me read the damn book, and then I'll tell you. 0.95

00:15:00.500 But suddenly the husband and wife were talking about things that he could never talk about before, because now they had a frame of reference. 0.99

00:15:08.160 So, yeah.

00:15:08.540 Interesting.

00:15:09.260 Yeah, and it's been, you know, I talk in on killing how sex was a taboo that had been largely overcome, although it's still got all kinds of hangups in our society.

00:15:20.800 But killing and violence, interpersonal human violence, is a taboo that has not even been scratched yet.

00:15:29.560 And so on killing was the first step in that.

00:15:32.000 On combat was the second step in that.

00:15:34.300 I have a book coming out right after the elections from Little Brown, which is one of the biggest publishers on the planet, called Assassination Generation.

00:15:43.800 And it is the definitive work up to this point on violence in our society that the homicide rate last year, Ryan, exploded.

00:15:52.440 You can go online to Amazon.com and preorder a copy right now of Assassination Generation.

00:15:58.060 But we've been building up this very long time.

00:16:00.620 Homicides, and this is terribly important for anybody who wants to understand violence, just burn this into neurons, never let go of it. 0.99

00:16:08.880 The number of dead people is being held down by medical technology.

00:16:13.660 The leaps and bounds of medical technology is holding down the murder rate to an extraordinary degree.

00:16:19.840 Major study, UMass Harvard, peer-reviewed journal.

00:16:23.060 If we had 1970s technology, the homicide rate would be four times what it is.

00:16:28.860 Take the number of dead people in Chicago this year, multiply it by four, and that's how many would have died with 1970s medical technology.

00:16:36.860 If we had 1930s technology, no antibiotics, no phones for most people, no automobiles for most people, the homicide rate would easily have been 10 times what it is.

00:16:47.820 Comparing this year's homicide to last year is a pretty effective assessment.

00:16:52.660 Over any period of time, it breaks down.

00:16:54.300 Homicides have been coming down for decade after decade, not just the per capita homicides, but the raw number of people murdered has been coming down year by year.

00:17:06.020 And last year, that turned around for the first time in almost half a century.

00:17:10.680 Homicide rate last year exploded 17% across the top 50 largest cities in America.

00:17:17.820 We have not seen an explosion of Americans kill each other off like this since the American Civil War, and this year's worse.

00:17:25.280 Chicago's already had more homicides this year than all the last year put together.

00:17:29.020 Last year was a hard year, but this year, more cops have been murdered in the line of duty than all of last year put together.

00:17:33.980 These are scary times, and this is a time when we need our sheepdogs, we need our paladins, we need our protectors, we need our men who are going to stand up and protect what's right and protect our loved ones and protect our children.

00:17:49.460 We have fed death and violence to a generation, and now they're feeding it back to us. 0.51

00:17:54.380 The director of the FBI said, you know, it's the Ferguson effect.

00:17:58.460 We cut the legs off from under our cops, we empowered our criminals, but we've also been building up to this for a very, very long time.

00:18:06.780 And it's not going away anytime soon.

00:18:09.880 Gang membership has been exploding.

00:18:12.580 In 2009, the federal government said we had 1 million true blue criminal gang members in America.

00:18:18.960 In 2011, it was 1.4 million.

00:18:21.660 In 2013, 2015, they still released a report.

00:18:26.240 They said there's more gang members, they just wouldn't say how many.

00:18:30.020 You know, the number of gangbangers no longer reported, but without a doubt, it's at least 2 million, true blue, full-time criminal gang members in America.

00:18:39.280 And that's an explosion, a doubling in just a couple of years.

00:18:42.520 When I was a kid, I sincerely wanted to be Marshal Dillon on Gunsmoke.

00:18:48.560 I had the lunchbox, baby.

00:18:49.740 You know, a Sergeant Friday, just the facts, man.

00:18:54.180 There's a generation that wanted to be Paladin and Ponce and John on ships and wanted them 12.

00:19:01.440 But Ryan, there is a big chunk of this generation who sincerely believes the ultimate achievement in life is to be the Sopranos.

00:19:09.900 Breaking Bad, Sons of Manarchy. 0.84

00:19:12.300 Sure.

00:19:12.680 The ganglord at the end of Grand Theft Auto.

00:19:14.180 You know, you probably grew up watching Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan at Black Hawk Down.

00:19:20.500 Of course.

00:19:21.040 And that generation has been a magnificent generation in this war to fight 15 years of war with 100% wartime volunteers.

00:19:29.760 They're magnificent.

00:19:30.320 But the slights of our generation that immerse themselves in Breaking Bad and Sons of Manarchy and The Sopranos and whatever sick movies out there today, we could not have done a better job of recruiting a generation of gangbanging killers if we'd have tried.

00:19:49.440 And we're paying a terrible price.

00:19:52.100 You know, I tell the men out there, judge very carefully what movies and TV shows you inflict upon your children because they will shape their future.

00:20:02.560 And, you know, they don't want to see Saving Private Ryan until they're a very mature teenager.

00:20:07.620 The kids who died on Normandy Beach traveled to a distant land, laid their life down by the thousands to stop the horror of war from coming to the children of America.

00:20:18.740 If they could see you inflicting the horror of that beach on their great-grandchildren, they would be outraged.

00:20:27.080 You know, choose the movies and choose the time and choose the TV shows.

00:20:31.080 And, you know, name me one cop movie in 30 years that didn't have a bad cop in there somewhere.

00:20:37.320 We all cheer when the bad cop dies.

00:20:39.880 The idea that cops are the bad guys.

00:20:42.220 I mean, even our heroes are dark anti-heroes.

00:20:44.960 Can't we have plain old heroes no more?

00:20:46.940 Batman and Superman fight each other.

00:20:48.640 The Avengers fight each other.

00:20:49.960 There are no good guys.

00:20:51.040 That's Hollywood's message.

00:20:52.460 So do not inflict that message on your children.

00:20:55.960 Choose the TV shows they watch.

00:20:57.780 Choose the movies they watch.

00:20:59.020 Freightly, greatly limit the violent visual imagery inflicted upon them at a young age.

00:21:06.060 The best thing to do, and I did this with my grandson, it's been an amazing thing, is to keep them completely TV, movie, video game free until they're old enough to read.

00:21:18.060 Our little grandson graduated from kindergarten reading at second grade level.

00:21:23.600 He said, okay, buddy, you've arrived.

00:21:25.500 We sat down and watched Mary Poppins.

00:21:27.240 The next weekend, we're going to watch James Shitty Bang Bang.

00:21:30.960 No, he wants to watch Mary Poppins again.

00:21:33.900 And at that age and at that point, as a kindergarten, Mary Poppins is about right.

00:21:40.940 But make sure that they can, at the baseline, the research tells us, your children should be able to read before they see visual media.

00:21:51.940 But they should be able to read before you do it for them, and then the research keeps showing that the definition of man is one who protects his civilization and protects his children.

00:22:06.660 And we have failed as men to protect our children from this violent visual imagery.

00:22:13.280 And then the sick criminal images and the sick nihilistic images that, you know, there are no good guys and the criminals are the heroes and the cops are the bad guys.

00:22:25.320 We're paying a terrible price for that.

00:22:27.260 If violence has exploded in our civilization like nothing we've ever seen before.

00:22:31.740 And I've been telling my police audiences for years that the Latin American model is our future.

00:22:37.880 We think the most violent nations on the planet are Afghanistan and Iraq. 1.00

00:22:42.080 But Mexico has been at war with the cartels.

00:22:45.720 When Mexico's war with the cartels has been more loss of life than Iraq and Afghanistan put together.

00:22:51.740 One nation, Mexico, has had more loss of life than Iraq and Afghanistan put together.

00:22:56.160 The seven most violent nations on the planet are all in Latin America, the Caribbean, and Mexico is not one of them.

00:23:04.620 Mexico is the middle of the pack.

00:23:06.740 The seven most violent nations on the planet are all in Latin America and the Caribbean. 0.89

00:23:12.960 And they are eaten alive with gang violence and gang crime.

00:23:17.460 In America, we've kept a lid on our sick culture with 30 million people on antibiotics or antidepressants.

00:23:23.860 It's 2 million of our most violent citizens in jail.

00:23:28.800 The latest of law enforcement technology and crime prevention technology and cameras everywhere.

00:23:34.840 We've turned ourselves inside out to try to keep it under control.

00:23:38.060 But that Latin America model has come as like a freight train.

00:23:41.940 Now, guys, I told you we're going to get into a break.

00:23:43.800 I wanted to mention our elite mastermind, the Iron Council.

00:23:46.140 We are coming up on your end.

00:23:47.340 But rather than taper off, I want this to be the best quarter of your life.

00:23:51.200 The problem, though, is that if you don't have a plan, it's just not going to happen.

00:23:54.800 So inside of the Iron Council, you've got 170 men all working hard to become better men.

00:23:59.660 But even more tactical than that, we're developing and implementing our plans for the fourth quarter.

00:24:05.020 So it's not too late to jump on board with a group of brothers, a group of guys who are going to help you develop what we call your 12-week battle plan and then hold you accountable to actually completing it.

00:24:14.320 This is an opportunity for every man inside the Iron Council to identify some key objectives and get very, very clear on exactly what you want in your relationships, in your health, in your wealth and financial situation and, of course, for yourself.

00:24:28.580 So if you want to access the tools that we're going to be using to make this the best quarter of our lives, again, it's called a 12-week battle plan.

00:24:34.380 And you want to connect with other men who are doing the same thing, join us inside of the Iron Council this week.

00:24:39.260 Head to orderofmen.com slash Iron Council and we'll get you added immediately.

00:24:43.180 Now, let me get back to my conversation with Colonel Grossman.

00:24:47.300 Why is this the case?

00:24:48.400 Because I look at – I mean one of the things you talk about is this interpersonal human aggression I think as being the number one phobia.

00:24:54.980 So if we have this phobia of this, why is it the case that we see so much increasing violence?

00:24:59.360 Well, we know how to overcome that phobia with training.

00:25:03.640 It's extraordinarily rare for members of their own species to kill each other off.

00:25:07.580 In the wild, chimpanzees and gorillas do kill each other off, but it's extraordinarily rare.

00:25:14.940 Members of their own species in their territorial mating battles almost never kill each other.

00:25:20.300 If they did, the species would be extinct.

00:25:23.420 In territorial mating battles, the loser slinks off into the woods.

00:25:27.040 The winner claims his prize.

00:25:28.400 But in the military and law enforcement, we learned how to make people kill.

00:25:34.040 Pop-up targets.

00:25:34.940 Anybody who had been in the military for the last 50 years, you didn't shoot bullseye targets.

00:25:38.680 You shot a man's ship suburb that popped up. 0.98

00:25:41.160 It became a conditioned response, stimulus response.

00:25:44.660 The simulators do it even better.

00:25:46.800 In the 1960s, the FBI realized that cops weren't shooting and they did the same thing.

00:25:52.260 They had videos or movies.

00:25:55.060 It was a projection of a movie on a screen and you're standing there with a revolver full of blanks.

00:26:01.780 And when the bad guy does this, you draw the gun.

00:26:03.900 When the bad guy does this, you start shooting blanks at him.

00:26:06.460 This is the 1960s.

00:26:08.860 Cops firing blanks at a movie screen in order to prepare themselves and to rehearse the action of killing and make killing a conditioned response.

00:26:18.940 And we know that the video games and the violent movies are doing the exact same thing to our children without the safeguard.

00:26:27.180 That the safeguard in military and law enforcement training is, A, we're doing it to adults. 0.78

00:26:32.660 B, the safeguard of discipline.

00:26:35.200 The returning veteran is less than a tenth is likely to commit a homicide as a non-veteran of the same age.

00:26:41.780 And the reason for that is discipline, discipline, discipline.

00:26:45.420 Discipline is the hallmark of a man.

00:26:47.180 The discipline to get up in the morning and do the job every day to keep your family fed.

00:26:52.600 The discipline to be faithful to the bride and faithful to your oath.

00:26:57.740 The discipline to protect your loved ones and sweep the perimeter and lock the door every night.

00:27:05.720 The hallmark of a man is discipline.

00:27:08.800 And we have taken that discipline away.

00:27:12.400 We have fed violence to children at a young age.

00:27:14.720 Discipline is a safeguard on the warrior.

00:27:17.740 Every warrior society had distinctive haircuts and distinctive uniforms.

00:27:22.900 What's important is not how you wear your hair.

00:27:25.660 What's important is submission to authority.

00:27:28.440 And whatever the hell the standard is, while we were in the service, we submitted to that standard.

00:27:32.400 And that hallmark of discipline carries us through our returning veterans or superior members of society.

00:27:39.100 They have discipline.

00:27:40.620 But when this killing enabling is given indiscriminately to the children and teenagers, the result is an explosion of violence.

00:27:49.340 It is eating away at our very civilization.

00:27:51.400 These Latin American hyper-violent nations. 1.00

00:27:54.220 It's hard to wrap your mind around the fact that seven Caribbean and Latin American nations are more violent than the most violent nation in Africa or Asia. 1.00

00:28:02.980 This is the domestic threat.

00:28:04.540 The gangs that are in open warfare with their nations.

00:28:07.700 This is our future.

00:28:08.600 And we need men who will protect their children and lead us home from the dark and chatted place which we travel. 0.98

00:28:15.880 So if you talk about the standard that you're talking about with the military and soldiers adhering to a standard, I guess the question is who defines that standard?

00:28:24.620 Or maybe even more importantly, how do we redefine and then hold ourselves to a new standard in wake of escalating violence?

00:28:30.960 You know, when I teach my cops, towards the end, I talk about two things.

00:28:38.400 I talk about the fact that we've all sworn an oath to justice and not vengeance.

00:28:43.620 The vengeance will destroy us.

00:28:45.140 It's caught on video.

00:28:46.260 It destroys our way of life.

00:28:48.480 And most people think I'm talking about their oath as a police officer.

00:28:52.460 That's not the oath I'm talking about.

00:28:54.640 I'm talking about an older oath, a deeper oath, an oath we swore from a younger stage, an oath that says everything it means to be an American.

00:29:00.120 The Pledge of Allegiance.

00:29:01.920 And I tell them, stay seated and help me out at the key point.

00:29:05.400 You'll know when.

00:29:05.860 Stay seated.

00:29:07.140 Help me out at the key point.

00:29:08.080 You'll know when.

00:29:09.380 And the last words of the Pledge of Allegiance is, and, and they chime in, justice for, and they chime in all.

00:29:18.520 Justice for all.

00:29:20.200 The Pledge of Allegiance.

00:29:21.440 The oath we swore from our youngest days.

00:29:24.200 That, that, we do not violate an oath we swore from our youngest days.

00:29:30.900 Without paying a profound price.

00:29:33.400 Whoever we think we're avenging, whatever we think we're accomplishing, it's not worth the price.

00:29:39.380 We dedicate ourselves to, to the, the standard, the Pledge of Allegiance is a magnificent place to begin.

00:29:45.780 And it continued to use it.

00:29:48.340 And then the second thing that I do is I talk about why people will die.

00:29:52.640 I put a photograph of a young police officer named Christopher Amoroso, who was on his third trip down from the World Trade Center, 9-11.

00:30:00.300 And he's, he's practically carrying this pregnant woman beside him. 0.99

00:30:04.540 Her face is beet red.

00:30:06.600 It's vasodilation.

00:30:08.000 Under physical exertion, your face turns red.

00:30:10.560 And the blood vessels are wide open, pumping the oxygen where it needs to go.

00:30:14.660 But his face is white.

00:30:16.300 He's taken on low to the left cheekbone.

00:30:18.020 But you can see this, that, that white face.

00:30:20.660 His heart rate can be exactly the same.

00:30:22.480 But the impact on his body is exactly the opposite.

00:30:25.900 Google Christopher Amoroso and look at that photograph.

00:30:29.440 His body is shut down the blood flow to the outer layer of the body to prepare to suck up damage.

00:30:35.840 It's the most amazing photograph I've ever been able to find in a lifetime of studying images.

00:30:40.960 Where two people side by side, heart rate could be exactly the same.

00:30:45.160 The impact of the body is exactly the opposite.

00:30:48.260 With his body getting ready to shut down the blood flow in preparation to take damage.

00:30:52.480 And, of course, the difference is that he's going back.

00:30:56.080 He's going back up that building a fourth time.

00:30:58.180 The building will fall.

00:30:59.960 And Christopher Amoroso will not come home to his wife and baby tonight.

00:31:04.080 Now, one of the things we know is when the blood drains from the face, the blood drains from the forebrain.

00:31:11.580 And there is no rational thought of this man's head.

00:31:15.060 Except that as a scientific fact.

00:31:16.760 That man has no rational thought in his head.

00:31:19.520 And he's going to drop off that lady.

00:31:22.480 He's going to go back up that building a fourth time.

00:31:25.580 Why?

00:31:27.000 And it's a real question.

00:31:28.340 Why will men die?

00:31:30.280 And what I tell people is the scientific solution to the question. 0.97

00:31:35.260 Yes, he's a sheepdog.

00:31:36.960 Yes, that's what he's trained to do.

00:31:38.280 But the scientific solution to the question, when nobody's watching, when no one will ever know.

00:31:43.800 And, of course, the suicide bomber, they've always got people watching.

00:31:47.040 They've shot their video.

00:31:48.060 Everybody will know.

00:31:49.400 But in the heart of darkness, when no one will know, why will men and women go to their death?

00:31:53.060 And in nature, the one place where the instinct of self-preservation is canceled across many species can be seen in the mama critter, will die to protect, what, her babies. 1.00

00:32:05.640 And in combat, you throw a bunch of strangers to the front lines together.

00:32:09.180 As soon as it's dark, as soon as people are dying, they're out of there.

00:32:12.620 You put together a band of brothers, men and women who know and trust one another.

00:32:17.100 They'll fight long and hard for each other.

00:32:19.480 Audie Murphy was the most decorated American soldier of World War II.

00:32:22.820 Audie Murphy was asked one time why he did it.

00:32:24.980 His answer was, they were killing my friends.

00:32:27.280 And I tell him that all of this research revolves around one word.

00:32:32.720 And the book, The Gates of Fire, about the Spartans at Thermopylae, magnificent book.

00:32:38.340 And at the beginning of the book, it poses the question, what is the opposite of fear?

00:32:44.240 And the answer is love.

00:32:45.660 The mama bird loves her babies more than life itself.

00:32:48.580 Audie Murphy loved his fellow soldiers more than life itself.

00:32:51.620 And Christopher Amoroso, he loves his fellow citizens, men and women trapped in those towers.

00:32:57.800 Men and women, he's never met more than life itself.

00:33:00.620 Now, here's the crazy part.

00:33:01.980 The mama critter will die to protect her babies. 1.00

00:33:05.300 She won't die to save anybody else's babies.

00:33:08.260 We say in our Sheepdog Kids book, on Amazon.com now, we now have our Sheepdog Kids book.

00:33:12.720 And it's a powerful book.

00:33:14.420 It has the original Sheepdog essay in the back.

00:33:16.280 But at the end of the kids book, we say that the sheep will die to protect the ones they love.

00:33:22.440 Only the sheepdog loves enough to die for other people's loved ones.

00:33:26.360 And sacrificial love. 0.64

00:33:28.860 You know, people say, where was God on 9-11?

00:33:31.620 Wherever you see sacrificial love, I think you see the hand of God.

00:33:34.820 And I write double markers on the paper, love.

00:33:37.640 And John 15, 13, greater love is no one than this.

00:33:40.660 And he gave his life for his friends.

00:33:42.440 And Timothy, we were not given a spirit of fear, but of love.

00:33:45.780 Then tell him the thing that blows me away.

00:33:48.580 Absolutely.

00:33:49.820 This stuns me.

00:33:51.000 I've used that photograph of Christopher Amoroso for over a decade after 9-11 with permission as a model of sacrificial love.

00:33:58.980 And then someone told me what the name Amoroso means.

00:34:02.380 Amor is love.

00:34:03.540 So is the love of one.

00:34:04.380 But then I wrap it up by saying that sometimes the ultimate love is not to sacrifice your life, but to live a life of sacrifice.

00:34:13.040 To place the wealth of others ahead of your own, to dedicate yourself to do a dirty, dangerous task, whatever's up before you, to the utmost of your ability every day of your life.

00:34:25.740 Because you know if nobody did it, our civilization would not survive.

00:34:30.700 Not to sacrifice your life, but to live a life of sacrifice.

00:34:35.840 The Pledge of Allegiance and a dedication to sheepdogs living a life of sacrifice, placing the wealth of others ahead of your own.

00:34:45.800 To me, that's the definition of American man.

00:34:48.800 Man, that's incredible.

00:34:49.680 That is really incredible to hear and just how touching that story and that information actually is.

00:34:55.740 I mean I want to talk about how a man might either understand or prepare himself to face a situation like this.

00:35:04.600 Because I imagine a lot of guys would say they'd be willing to sacrifice and want to think that they would be willing to.

00:35:10.240 But when it really hits the fan, are they willing to and are they prepared for it?

00:35:13.820 What are some of the things that we need to be prepared for and ready for if we ever find ourselves in that type of situation?

00:35:19.340 Well, let's start kind of at the middle level.

00:35:21.560 You know, we began by zooming out to the necktie and then zooming into this position.

00:35:26.000 Sure, sure.

00:35:26.680 You know, at the middle level, it's a lifetime of actions that makes it possible at the moment of truth to do the right thing.

00:35:34.600 You know, the police officer has got up every day and put his life on the line every day.

00:35:40.680 He's the one most likely to walk out that door and die if they do the right thing at the moment of truth.

00:35:46.560 The soldiers are coming home from 15 years of war, a year after year of sacrifice.

00:35:52.620 Those are the ones.

00:35:53.880 It doesn't just happen.

00:35:55.220 You don't just wake up one day and start doing the right thing.

00:35:57.800 You can, and we want you to, but what it takes is years and years and years of doing the right thing to prepare you for that one moment of time when doing the right thing is an extraordinarily difficult thing to do.

00:36:12.840 And that's kind of the meta answer, but zoom in.

00:36:16.320 There's lots of nuts and bolts on this.

00:36:18.920 And I'll walk you through.

00:36:20.140 When I teach, I teach resiliency, people who do not get PTSD.

00:36:24.380 And the first step in that equation is motivation, to believe that you're sacrificed for a worthy purpose.

00:36:32.060 And what greater motivation can there be than our children?

00:36:35.360 We live in a world where people are coming to harm our children.

00:36:38.300 Sandy Hook, Bass Land.

00:36:41.040 Terrorists are coming to hit our school buses.

00:36:42.960 They're going to hit our daycares.

00:36:44.300 They're going to hit our elementary schools.

00:36:45.820 They're going to destroy our way of life.

00:36:48.060 And step one in resilience is motivation.

00:36:50.940 Why do we train?

00:36:51.880 Why do we carry the life-saving tools that it's lawful and legal for us to carry?

00:36:57.040 We do this for our family, for our loved ones.

00:36:59.380 What greater motivation can there be?

00:37:01.680 The sheep are always trying to pull the sheepdog down.

00:37:04.240 But, you know, why do you study in the martial arts?

00:37:08.160 Why do you carry a gun?

00:37:09.220 Why do you go to the range?

00:37:10.360 Why do you do these things?

00:37:12.260 Why won't you play golf with us?

00:37:13.660 But I have fun teasing our golfers.

00:37:16.220 But the sheep are always trying to pull you down.

00:37:19.520 You must believe in who you are.

00:37:20.580 You must believe in what you do.

00:37:21.880 But when we study resiliency, we study people who do not get PTSD, POWs and Holocaust survivors.

00:37:32.080 And I interviewed one of these people.

00:37:35.700 A POW had been shot down over to North Vietnam, years of malnutrition and torture.

00:37:40.880 He said, I walked out of that POW camp and I did not have any PTSD.

00:37:44.940 And I believe completely validated.

00:37:47.240 But I said, sir, what made that possible?

00:37:49.880 He said, every evil act the enemy inflicted upon us renewed our faith in the right side

00:37:57.080 in this war.

00:37:57.840 Every bad thing that happens in this world is to renew your motivation to prepare for your

00:38:04.020 moment of truth.

00:38:05.240 I tell people, you'd be like Batman.

00:38:06.860 Batman, the average citizen of Gotham City, watch the news, crime, death, violence.

00:38:12.300 What do they do?

00:38:12.900 Hunker down, hide, lock the door.

00:38:15.260 Batman hears about crime and violence.

00:38:16.860 What's he do?

00:38:17.880 He trains his tail off.

00:38:19.940 You will never find Batman on the golf course.

00:38:23.900 And then he uses skills to hunt the Batman.

00:38:25.940 We're not all cops.

00:38:26.940 We don't go hunt the Batman.

00:38:28.020 But we use our skills at the moment of truth to protect that which we love.

00:38:31.940 The next step in resiliency is motivation turned into action.

00:38:35.800 The Bible says faith, if that works, is dead.

00:38:38.600 Motivation without action is not truly motivation.

00:38:41.300 Try to come further up that sheepdog path.

00:38:43.880 Just strip away denial and embrace preparation.

00:38:47.020 Denial kills us twice.

00:38:48.440 It kills us once because we don't have the tools.

00:38:50.620 We don't have the skills.

00:38:52.160 We die like any other sheep.

00:38:53.540 Denial kills us twice because even if we survive, we live the rest of our life in hell.

00:38:59.780 When we know the simple things we could and should have done and we didn't do it and terrible things happen.

00:39:05.500 Preparation saves us twice.

00:39:07.040 Preparation saves us once.

00:39:08.600 You have the tools.

00:39:09.500 You have the skills.

00:39:10.940 You're prepared for a lifetime at the moment and you're ready.

00:39:14.380 You're triumphant.

00:39:15.120 But even if you fail, you can live with yourself because you did everything you can do.

00:39:21.200 The next step, and we can go on for quite a while, but I think it comes to a conclusion.

00:39:27.060 I believe that in this day and age, if it's lawful and legal, the lawful carry of a firearm, in this day and age, in this time, is something we should all be looking at.

00:39:39.120 The final step in the equation is if you're going to carry a firearm, you need to be extraordinarily well trained.

00:39:45.100 Now, don't be a bigot that says if you haven't had 10,000 rounds of ammunition, you can't be trusted.

00:39:52.140 You know, grandma with the revolver and the bedside stand is a force to be reckoned with. 1.00

00:39:56.720 But if we're going to carry that gun, I tell you, the final step in the equation becomes to seek mastery and to be truly proficient.

00:40:03.480 To go to the range, to do dry fires, to seek, you know, laser systems that allow us to train, to seek, you know, can't afford ammo, can't buy ammo, airsoft and paintball.

00:40:14.260 My grandson in the basement with a pellet pistol.

00:40:17.180 You know, seek training, martial arts, whatever tool you're going to carry.

00:40:21.640 And I think the tool for our age is the firearm.

00:40:23.780 And I think we need to all seek training and come to that highest level.

00:40:29.060 At the moment of truth, the skills are there for us.

00:40:31.540 There's a whole lot more to cover, but we laid a pretty good foundation, I think.

00:40:35.660 Yeah, I think we gave the guys enough to get a taste for this and obviously follow up on some of the things that you're doing.

00:40:41.880 I want to wind down with a couple of questions.

00:40:43.920 And I think we alluded to this quite a few times within the conversation, Colonel Grossman.

00:40:47.480 And that is, what does it mean to be a man?

00:40:49.580 You know, I think there's a lot of males out there, but not all of them are men.

00:40:55.360 What it means to be a man is to protect your children.

00:40:59.240 To be a man is to dedicate yourself to something more than yourself, including your nation.

00:41:05.720 The Pledge of Allegiance to me is what it means to be a man.

00:41:09.280 An oath that we swore to ourselves every day from our youngest days.

00:41:13.380 What it means to be a man is to have the skills and tools of the moment of truth to protect your loved ones.

00:41:18.000 To take your nation and your civilization and to protect that which is innocent from the evil that is strong.

00:41:26.520 To seek the tools and to seek the training and to seek the mentoring from organizations like yours that are helping us understand what it means to be a man in these dark and desperate times.

00:41:40.240 And as it continues to get worse, and it is, it's bad right now, it's going to get a heck of a lot worse.

00:41:46.880 We need our men.

00:41:48.420 Men who, first and foremost, have dedicated themselves to protecting their family and their loved ones.

00:41:53.960 And that means sacrifice.

00:41:55.180 That means doing that job every day to put food on the table for your family.

00:42:00.140 A man takes care of his children.

00:42:02.420 A man takes care of his family.

00:42:04.060 And makes a sacrifice every day to put the food on the table and to give them what they need.

00:42:09.320 A man protects his children.

00:42:11.160 That a man is a part of his civilization.

00:42:15.120 And is a part of what makes his civilization strong.

00:42:18.520 Not to sacrifice your life, but to live a life of sacrifice.

00:42:22.520 That's the ultimate love for most of us.

00:42:25.700 And to me, that's the ultimate definition of what it means to be a man.

00:42:29.200 So powerful.

00:42:30.040 How do we connect with you?

00:42:31.480 I mean, I know you've got a lot going on.

00:42:32.880 You've got the couple of books.

00:42:34.100 And, of course, we'll make links for that.

00:42:35.860 But you've got some other things going on.

00:42:37.300 You've got an academy available.

00:42:38.580 You've got another project that you're working on.

00:42:40.060 I want to hear a little bit more about that as we wind things down today.

00:42:42.580 Yeah.

00:42:42.960 Well, we've got our Sheepdog Kids book, first and foremost, on Amazon.com now.

00:42:48.120 It's the Sheepdogs.

00:42:49.900 Meet America's Warriors.

00:42:51.940 We've got our Grossman Academy.

00:42:53.860 One of the leading online training resources has taken just go grossmanacademy.com.

00:43:00.200 They've taken my most important book on combat and turned it into an online course and pick up, get an e-copy of the course, a lot of video from me, a lot of audio from me.

00:43:11.060 And it's a great opportunity to really get that knowledge of what's going to be like in that life and death event that will inoculate you and forewarn you to perform well at that moment of truth.

00:43:22.260 We didn't get a chance to talk much about it.

00:43:23.840 But one of those insights that I've had, I patented a firearms training device, a finger off the trigger.

00:43:31.760 The greatest innovation in firearms safety since the trigger guard is keeping a finger off the trigger.

00:43:37.440 What an idea.

00:43:38.120 What a concept.

00:43:38.960 Any photograph of somebody carrying a gun, holding a gun from the Civil War to Gulf One, they had a gun in their hand.

00:43:46.840 They had the finger on the trigger.

00:43:48.060 The finger needs somewhere to go.

00:43:49.560 Sheepdogknifeandgun.com.

00:43:52.360 We believe it's the greatest firearms hardware safety device since the trigger guard.

00:43:57.760 A couple of other goodies on our Sheepdog Knife and Gun website.

00:44:01.360 There's a new book coming out.

00:44:02.880 I told you about Assassination Generation.

00:44:05.620 It'll be coming out right after the elections.

00:44:08.260 It will really nail down this battle against the evil of media violence inflicted upon our children.

00:44:13.600 Media violence isn't evil any more than alcohol or tobacco or firearms are.

00:44:18.280 Sex is not evil.

00:44:19.120 You inflict it on your children. 0.63

00:44:20.700 That's evil.

00:44:21.820 And violent visual imagery inflicted upon our children is one of the great evils of our age and has done enormous harm.

00:44:27.380 And our book, Assassination Generation, coming out, you can pre-order it from Amazon.com right now.

00:44:33.920 We'll do a pretty good job of helping us understand that titanic epic social battle that we're in the middle of right now.

00:44:42.460 Well, sir, you have a ton going on.

00:44:44.100 I can see that you do.

00:44:44.800 I'm actually on your website right now, the Sheepdog Knife and Gun, and I can see I'm looking at this Glock.

00:44:48.600 I can see how this works, and it would certainly be valuable for me and my kids as I try to train them with firearms as well.

00:44:53.860 Colonel Grossman, I really appreciate you.

00:44:55.380 I appreciate your time.

00:44:56.300 Obviously, I appreciate your work.

00:44:57.520 And I've got to say that this is probably one of the most powerful conversations in the 85 or so conversations that I've had since I've started.

00:45:04.820 I really appreciate you and your time.

00:45:06.180 Thanks for joining us today.

00:45:07.060 Thanks, Brian.

00:45:08.120 That's a great honor, brother.

00:45:09.120 As iron sharpens iron, brother.

00:45:10.860 There you have it, guys.

00:45:12.320 Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman talks with us about the psychology of violence, how we can be better prepared, and literally probably, and you can agree to this, gave one of the very best answers I've ever heard for what it means to be a man.

00:45:22.740 So I encourage you to go check out his work and his offerings.

00:45:24.940 In the meantime, make sure that you go learn about our elite mastermind, The Iron Council.

00:45:28.800 Again, it's comprised of 170-plus men, all working to be the very best versions of themselves and committed to helping each other succeed.

00:45:35.400 This week, we're talking about our relationship objectives.

00:45:38.180 So whether that's with kids or whether that's with your wife or coworkers or colleagues or neighbors, that's what we're talking about.

00:45:42.520 So make sure you join us at orderofman.com slash ironcouncil.

00:45:46.080 Guys, I look forward to talking with you on Friday for our Friday Field Notes.

00:45:48.620 But until then, take action and become the man you were meant to be.

00:45:52.240 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

00:45:54.640 If you're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be,

00:45:59.220 we invite you to join the Order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - October 11, 2016

OoM 082： Confronted with Violence with Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman

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