OoM 084： Living Life on the Front Row with Jon Vroman
Episode Stats
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Summary
John Vroman is a social entrepreneur who helps people live life on the front row. He is also the author of The Front Row Factor, Crush Your Fear, Create Epic Moments, and Celebrate Now Before It s Too Late. In 2005, he co-founded the Front Row Foundation to help create life-changing experiences for people in need. He s run 3 ultra marathons, but mostly he does it to raise money for his charity. John has a passion for speaking, coaching, running live events, and hosting his very own podcast, The Frontrow Factor, which I was fortunate enough to be a guest on.
Transcript
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Being present in the moment is something we talk a ton about here on the show.
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It seems like there's too many men letting life pass them by simply because they are not engaged in life.
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My guest today, John Roman, joins me to talk about how to find your why,
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finding people to join you on your journey, and how you can live life on the front row.
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You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest.
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Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.
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When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.
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You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.
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This is who you will become at the end of the day.
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And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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Men, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and founder of Order of Man.
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Now, if you're new to the show today, I want to welcome you.
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This is a show about all things manly, so you are in the right place.
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We are going to hit 1 million downloads for all time, either today or tomorrow.
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I'd rather have it be today, so please make sure you share this with your brothers, your dad, your buddies,
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basically any man who needs to hear the message of Order of Man.
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And in the meantime, I do want to say thank you.
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I want to say thank you for supporting this movement.
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It is a movement, and I am completely honored to have you as part of it.
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Now, speaking of movement and on to a completely unrelated topic,
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I do want to introduce and thank our sponsor for the show today, Sheath Underwear.
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Now, as always, guys, we have got a great one lined up for you today,
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know that the show notes for this show can be found at ORDEROFMAN.com slash 084.
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John Vroman is first a husband and a father of two boys
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and a social entrepreneur who helps people live in the front row.
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He has a passion for speaking, coaching, running live events,
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and hosting his very own podcast, The Front Row Factor,
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John is also the author of The Front Row Factor,
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Crush Your Fear, Create Epic Moments, and Celebrate Now Before It's Too Late.
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In 2005, he co-founded Front Row Foundation to help create life-changing experiences for people in
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need. He's run three ultra marathons. Now, I think it's because he's a little crazy,
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but mostly he does it to raise money for his charity. But he also loves traveling,
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he's addicted to learning, and he has a passion to help people live fully alive,
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John, thanks for joining me on the show. What's up, man?
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Hey, brother. So grateful to be here, man. Thanks for having me.
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Yeah, this is part two of our discussion, right? We did on your show,
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what, a couple of months ago or so? Yeah, that was great. Thank you.
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Yeah, you bet. You bet. And I'm excited to follow up. I'm excited to see what's going
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on in your universe over the past 60 days or so. I know we've had big changes, so it'll be good to
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catch up, and I'm sure the guys will benefit on our conversation as well.
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I want to talk, I mean, we just dive right into this thing. I want to talk about what
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Front Row Factor is. Tell me a little bit about the premise. Tell me why Front Row Factor. Just
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catch us up to speed, and then that'll set the framework for the discussion that we're going to have
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today. Perfect. The Front Row Factor is what we have learned over the last 10 years of connecting
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with people, which all started with the charity, Front Row Foundation. And for anybody listening
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who doesn't know, it's a wish-granting organization that helps kids and adults who have a life-threatening
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illness to see the live event of their dreams from the Front Row. And for us, we started doing
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this back in 2005. And so the Front Row Factor is what we have learned from working with people
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over the last 10 years who are fighting for their life about what it takes to really live your life
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to the fullest. So that is the Front Row Factor. It's all the little pieces of the puzzle that I
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didn't ever see coming, by the way. I should mention that when we started the charity, we were really
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looking for a way to serve and looking for a way to give. But I didn't expect to be such a recipient
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myself. And I think being around people who are fighting for their lives teaches you a lot,
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gives you a lot of perspective and cuts away a lot of the BS and gets right to the heart of what
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real living is all about. And that's the Front Row Factor. I would also add this piece too, which is
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that the metaphor of the Front Row is very simply, it's about what we put ourselves close to.
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It's the people and it's the places and the experiences in our life. And so the Front Row Factor
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is all about proximity. For us, the charity was all about putting people in the front row of their
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favorite live event. But what we learned was that the life principle of that is about what you put
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yourself close to every day of your life. You know, it's getting connected to the guys, like people
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finding their way to your world, you know, and getting connected to your community and to your
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mastermind. That's what we call who's in your Front Row. And those are the big decisions.
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Yeah. So tell me a little bit about the catalyst to start the foundation. I mean,
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is this something that you've always had on your mind? Was there something personally in your life that
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you thought we've got to do this because I can be a change in somebody's life? What's that all
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about? Yeah, you know, that's a really good question. Back in 2005, there was three things
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that happened to me all at the same time. One was somebody had asked me to kind of rate my
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contribution to the world on a one to 10 scale. I didn't like my answer. So there was a seed that
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was planted there. I need to do something. The second thing that happened was I was at a Jason
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Mraz concert and I was in the very back row with my girlfriend and I looked to the front and I just saw
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this group of people having the time of their life. And that was the second aha I thought, man,
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life is different in the front row because I could see the energy was there. And then the third thing
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that happened was a buddy of mine challenged me to do an ultra marathon. And at the time,
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I had never run more than two miles in my whole life. I was not a runner. And he was like, do we
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got to do this? And I'm like, no way. No, I'm not doing it. No way, man. That's not me. And I think
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I said something to the effect of I can't. And then he responded with some Jedi mind trick like if you
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can't, you must. And that's what he said to me. And at first I thought, I don't even know what
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that means, man. I don't get it. And then it hit me. It was like, dude, if you say you can't do
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something, that's the thing you've got to run towards. That's the thing that you've got to
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you've got to charge at. And so I just said on the spot, I go, I go, screw it. Let's do it,
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man. I'm in. And I said, when are we doing it? He goes, 16 weeks from right now. I was like,
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that's insane. So I, but I, but I was at the point of my life where I was interested in testing
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my abilities. And so that, uh, when I said, yes, I went home. I told my, my girlfriend at the time,
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I was like, babe, I'm going to put on a pair of running shoes and I'm going to go out and I'm
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going to run as far as I can until my feet bleed. And I was sort of inspired by this. Uh, I don't
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know. Do you remember the book, the ultra marathon man by Dean Karnasas? Sure. Epic book, right? And he
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has this story where he went out and ran like 30 miles in the middle of the night. And I had that in my
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mind and I was like, I'm going to do that. And I was like, I'm going to see what I'm made of.
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And turns out I was made of about 3.7 miles. Sure. Of course. Right. But the thing was this,
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um, we knew that we needed a purpose to finish that run. We needed some deeper cause or meaning
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to pull this off other than just finishing. So we decided to raise money for a charity and that
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turned into, well, what if we started a charity? And that was the first question that led us to
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the start of front row foundation. What would we do if we could do anything and design it the way that
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we would want? And this really taps in for me, Ryan, my greatest fear, my greatest love,
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my greatest fear, having my life end early, my greatest love experiences with people.
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You know, these are like moments that count, you know, doing something epic that feels good to me.
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And so I thought if I can help people who are fighting for their life to have the best day of
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their life ever, and then to let that be a metaphor for how they could live every day of their life,
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that felt good. And now we tend to, we think that we're more of like a blend between a coaching
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organization and a wish granting. So it's not just about a day. It's about how we live every day.
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But that was how it all started, man. It was these three things coming together. And then
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You know, it's really fascinating is I hear you and I hear the 85 or so other guests that we've
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had on the show. One of the things, the quotes that always comes to mind, and I'm going to say
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this and all the guys listening are probably going to roll their eyes because they hear me say this
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over and over again. But John Eldridge, are you familiar with his work, Wild at Heart?
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Oh, yes, I know that. Yeah, I didn't know the name, but yeah, I got it. Yeah.
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Anyways, one of the quotes that he has, which is my favorite all-time quote on masculinity is,
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deep in his heart, every man is longing for an adventure to live, a battle to fight,
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and a beauty to rescue. Yeah. And it's interesting to hear you talk about what led you up to the
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Front Row Foundation because I think we're basically hitting all three of those things. And that's
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pretty cool to hear. And I think a lot of guys are that way.
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We find that purpose, Ryan. I think that's tremendous fuel. And that was a turning point for
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me. That was a big moment in my life. I remember, you know, on that run, I kept thinking two
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things. One was a day of pain is worth a lifetime of pride. I knew that I could make it through any
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amount of pain, but for the rest of my life, I'd lean on that day. And that's true. I've always been
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able to go back to that moment and recognize that everything in some way is an ultra event,
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you know? And the second thing was, I believe that when your why has real heart, like why you want to
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do something, your how always gets legs. You'll just figure it out. Like, I didn't know shit about
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running a marathon. I didn't know anything about running a charity. I knew nothing,
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but we just knew that if we had a deep enough purpose, we'd figure it out.
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It's really interesting on the, uh, to talk with you about your marathon really quickly.
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Uh, several months ago, maybe five, six months ago, I went and did the 60 hour endurance event
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for Spartan races. And the, the one thing that got me through is that my kids and my wife sent me a
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picture. It was a text and they sent me a picture and they had this poster that said, go dad,
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we know you can do it 60 hours. And I remember when things got very difficult,
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I drew upon that picture. But the reason was, is I wanted to prove to my kids that
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Mickler is that we do hard things and we do difficult things. And when we step up to the
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plate, we keep driving, even though things that make it, make it difficult. And we can finish
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if we put our mind to that. So I, I can completely reaffirm what you just said about having your why.
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What was your why as you were finishing that event? And even now,
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the why for us during that first run was that we sent out a letter to all of our friends and
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said, we want to start this charity and we want to help these people. And, uh, they donated money.
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And so we were finishing it for all the people that donated money for us to create our first
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front row event ever, which was a friend of mine whose mother was battling cancer. And we sent her
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to go see Brooks and done. And, uh, that was an awesome experience. And then the other events that I
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had done, the other ultra events, we were raising money for people that were ready for their front
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row events. Um, one, one girl in particular comes to mind. Her name was Sophie, this little four year
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old girl who wanted to go see Kelly Clarkson. And, uh, I, at first I thought, man, how big of a fan
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could you be at four? But this little girl was a huge fan, knew all the words to all the songs and
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her mother, Lauren, who are still close friends with who lives here in Philadelphia. Um, you know,
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we, we knew this little girl was having, was battling a brain tumor. And so we went out,
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we did a second ultra marathon, raised money for her and sent her to go see Kelly. And she got a
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chance to get backstage and meet Kelly. And, um, you know, we have a picture right now hanging in my
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office and of this little girl and Kelly Clarkson hanging out. And her mother told us that was one
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of the greatest moments of her daughter's life, just meeting her idol. And then when I think about
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anything difficult that I'm going through and when I find my deep reason why it's always about
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making those moments possible. Cause you know, it's not just about the little girl, Sophie,
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which, uh, was reason enough, but it's also about Sophie's family. You know, Sophie lost her life,
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sadly, about two months after the event. But I will tell you that her mom and her grandparents and
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her, you know, the people that were closest to her get a chance to also live that front row memory
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on forever and ever and ever. And they know that in Sophie's final days, they did something epic for
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her. And that's what continues to drive me is the ongoing impact that these events have.
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Yeah. That's really powerful, man. I guess my question, cause we hear this all the time and
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it's almost so cliche at this point that you tune it out when you hear find your why, right?
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Any insights into somebody, a man finding his why, and then we can get into the second part of that
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question, which is okay. What do you do about it now?
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Yeah. Well, I think that the, the, where we find our why is, it was when we get clear about what I,
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for me, it was what I fear and what I love. I mean, those were the two things when I sat down and
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asked myself, like, really, what am I trying to avoid? What problem do I want to solve? If you
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will, or what bothers me? You know, that's a, that's something that provides us great fuel.
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And the other piece of that is, well, what do we feel passionate about? Or what do we love?
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What are we drawn to those two things? I think for me were, were critical in finding that. But I
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also don't think that it's a magic formula where if somebody sits down and just does these three
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things that it'll automatically come to them. For me, this is like 30 minutes later. Like I think
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this was a process and it's a process of experimentation. It's like you get closer,
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you like find something and then you go try it. And then you're like, oh, that worked or that didn't
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work. But either way you, you, and sometimes you stumble upon it. I think sometimes it does hit you
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as an epiphany, like, oh, that makes total sense. Intellectually, I got it. Now I'm going to go do
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it. Other times we actually end up just finding our way through the dark, stumbling upon something
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that was like, man, that really called to me. But if you're not aware enough, if you don't have a
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level of awareness to be able to notice it, then opportunity is knocking. You just can't hear it.
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It's like, it's right there, but you're so numb. You know, like I remember my buddy once said to me,
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he goes, when he quit drinking and started doing things differently with his life, he's like,
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I went from the process of numbing to becoming. And this idea of just, instead of trying to
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constantly tune things out, he was trying to get silent, which is oftentimes super uncomfortable.
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So I think for a lot of guys, they got to stop putting on an act and, you know, they got to stop
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faking their way through it for a moment and just be like, what do I really think? What really matters
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to me? Um, and stop trying to be somebody that the world maybe told them for the longest time they
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needed to do or who they needed to be or what it was, you know, what it was supposed to be all about
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and actually ask themselves what they think. Yeah. I mean, I know with, uh, with order man,
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it was actually very similar to that. You talk about stumbling. It wasn't an epiphany that I
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said, I have to do this and this is going to be the next great thing. But looking back on and out
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literally was some, something that I stumbled across. But the one thing that I think really
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separates the growth that we've had from some of those who may have had an idea or even started an
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idea, but didn't completely finish was my ability to take action. And I think that's where a lot of
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guys fall. You talk a lot about crushing fears and I think fear frankly is probably the number one
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thing in one form or the other that would keep any man from pursuing his dream. How do you overcome
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some of the fears that come into our minds? Yeah. Good, good question. Um, for me, I think that one
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of the ways, just like you talked about is taking massive action regardless. There's a, there's something
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that for me is really worked in my life, which is, uh, you know, no matter how scared I am,
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just say yes, just jump in. I've noticed that that really works. Um, it, I call that in my speech,
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I call that acting your way into feeling, which is I'm, I'm terrified. I don't feel confident,
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but if I act that way, I'll get there. And there's some great science now that backs a lot of that up.
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Amy Cuddy wrote about that in her book presence and all sorts of interesting science about that.
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But for me, that is this different. If I can interrupt you real quickly, I just wanted to ask,
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is this different than fake it till you make it? Because sometimes I think people have a negative
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connotation associated with that. I mean, is there a difference between what you're saying
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and that fake it till you make it mentality? Well, you know, it's interesting is I've wrestled
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with this in my own life, this fake it till you make it. Yeah. I don't, I have to, I don't like the
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word fake. Um, you know, for me that doesn't feel great because I've always wanted to be more
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authentic and I wasn't trying to be faked fake. That's why I like the word act, act your way into
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feeling that to me feels better because, um, it's not that I'm being fake. It's actually that I'm,
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I'm acting in a way that's modeling some act, some, some behavior that I think is going to be
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really important to figuring this out. And then as a result of that, I feel better about it.
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You know, so to me, that's, that's how I overcome that fear. But I do think you could argue that that's
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the case. You know, Amy Cuddy actually talks about fake it till you become it. And it's like,
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yeah, it's no problem with just acting like it, that is. And if you call that faking it fine,
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but you know, whatever, it's just a debate on the, maybe the meaning of the word.
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The point is you're taking an action that might be uncomfortable for you, but you're doing it
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anyway. I always talk about what it's like people at a concert where they don't want to stand up
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because they're afraid that they're going to offend somebody behind them or they have all these fears.
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Like they don't want to dance because they think everybody's looking at them. But actually I don't
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think people care that much about you. Oh, absolutely. Like if we actually knew how little
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people thought of us, we would probably be offended about that. I tell people all the time,
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I'm like, let me tell you, there's people in this most, there's a lot of people in this world who
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don't care about you as much as you think they do. And there's also a lot of people in the world
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who care a lot more amount, a lot more about you than you think they do. So I think our fears
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are often just unfounded. And, uh, and, and so for me, a lot of overcoming them is just
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remembering what I want. I, we talk a lot about in the charity, it's about amplifying
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what, you know, what's good. So you can silence what's not. And I've, you know, I've always fallen
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into that place where I'm like, it's, I tell the story about my first Jeep. Now you are a proud new
00:17:17.780
owner of a scout, right? Yes, I am. I had an old Jeep CJ seven, big tires, green tents. I love this Jeep.
00:17:24.580
Right. And this thing had a ton of rattles and I was trying to sort of monitor the amount of rattles
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so I could hear the person next to me. But then I was like, screw it. I just bought a bigger radio
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and handled the problem. But what I got to tell you that what I learned from that was all about
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amplifying what's good. So you can silence what's not. And that's what I think, you know, even Peter
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Drucker famously talked about that. Like the, the best teams are the ones that magnify the strengths.
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So the weaknesses become irrelevant. It's interesting. I know a lot of guys will talk to me. How do I
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eliminate negative people? How do I get toxic people out of my life? And I say, well, you'd be too busy
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with the positive people that the negative people don't really matter anymore. Perfect. Yeah,
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exactly. Yeah. That's it, man. Yeah. Yeah. So tell me, this is going to be a difficult question
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to answer because you've had, I'm sure hundreds, if not thousands of experiences, but if you could
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narrow it down to one or two, maybe key lessons or takeaways from the people, your, your clients,
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I guess, for lack of a better term, the people that you're serving within the foundation,
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what are some of the lessons that we can learn from them that we don't need to wait until we're on
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our deathbed or until something negative happens and we can start implementing these lessons
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today. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. There's so much that I can say about this, but I'll give you
00:18:32.680
sure that come to mind right away. The first is, um, there is, there is great power in having a hope
00:18:38.480
for the future. When we tell people that they're going to go to these events, uh, there's great
00:18:42.280
power in that. There's a gentleman, uh, by the name of Thomas K who we went, who we sent to go see
00:18:46.720
the rugby world cup in New Zealand. And this guy was like, I mean, he was ripped, you know, super fit
00:18:52.760
rugby player. And, you know, in the blink of an eye, his world was turned upside down. You know,
00:18:58.340
he was, uh, very shortly in a wheelchair, um, going blind. And, um, you know, I will tell you that,
00:19:04.260
you know, it was, uh, seeing pictures side by side of what, you know, when he's carrying the rugby
00:19:10.100
ball and, uh, you know, then a short time later being in this wheelchair, you see how quickly life can
00:19:16.100
transform. And we sent him to go see the rugby world cup. And he said that he was like, I will stand for the
00:19:22.380
national anthem when I go. And that became his driving force. And I think there's tremendous
00:19:27.280
power in having hope. I think some people feel like hope is just all BS. Like it's all about
00:19:32.500
action. And by the way, I'm a huge fan of action, but I will also tell you, there's no problem with
00:19:37.700
having a little hope that things could be better down the road. And we've seen that in, in, we've
00:19:42.760
seen the power of that. So I think that when somebody is facing great adversity, having some,
00:19:47.600
some hope is very key. I think the second thing we noticed, um, and that we've learned from
00:19:52.120
people is that it's all about the present moment. Everything comes down to what we can do right
00:19:56.780
now, what you can do with what you have. And we've, we've heard people say in our charity,
00:20:01.180
I'm grateful that I went through the experience of cancer. Now to somebody else that might sound
00:20:06.140
crazy, but they will tell you that cancer gave them perspective on life. Cancer helped them
00:20:10.980
appreciate the here and the now. They know that life could be ended at any moment. And I think for,
00:20:15.580
for myself, and I would ask all the guys that are listening, it's like, let mortality create
00:20:20.220
vitality in your life. The idea of mortality. I think one of the most powerful exercises I've
00:20:25.180
ever done, Ryan, as I sat down with a piece of paper on an airplane, um, I drew a dot on the left
00:20:29.640
side and it said birth. I drew a dot on the left side. It said death. And I just said, well, let's
00:20:34.240
just say I live to be a hundred. Where am I now? I'm 41 right now. And I just drew that dot. And I just
00:20:39.840
looked at it and said, how many good years do I have? Like, I mean, really amazing years. And then I
00:20:44.360
thought about my life in that moment and that mortality, that thought of when it could end,
00:20:48.280
you know, really inspired me to live more fully now. I think that's a lesson that we get is this
00:20:53.780
present moment. And then the third thing I would share is this idea of celebration, which, which
00:20:58.900
means that I think a lot of guys I know get so busy kicking ass that they forget to take a moment
00:21:03.760
and celebrate. They forget to take a moment to recognize the work they did. And I think that
00:21:09.000
celebration is a key to living a fulfilled life and that, yes, we want you to accomplish things. Yes,
00:21:14.700
we want you to go out there and crush it and do all the things you're going to do. And I think
00:21:17.780
that feels great. I'm driven to do that also. But I also got to tell you that learning to stop and
00:21:22.900
celebrate not only our own victories, but the people around us to cheer for them, to lift them
00:21:27.320
up, I think is a big key. So watching people in their time, in their darkest hours or when they're
00:21:32.760
facing death, you know, nobody ever is saying, oh, you know, oh shit, my life's going to end six
00:21:39.140
months from now. I really wish I would have gotten that last thing done at work or whatever it is.
00:21:43.700
And although I got to tell you, I'm so grateful for my work. My work provides great income for my
00:21:48.340
family. My work is doing big things in the world. But I got to tell you that if I don't balance that
00:21:53.500
out with some of the stuff that really matters, and you know what really matters when somebody's
00:21:57.360
like, you have six months to live, you know, you really get clear. And anybody can get there by just
00:22:02.980
imagining that somebody came to them. And I think there's a ton of exercises that likely many of us have
00:22:07.980
gone through. If you've been in the personal growth space, you've likely, you know, looked at writing
00:22:11.500
your eulogy and doing all these things. But the idea of taking a moment to celebrate what's good
00:22:16.320
now is really critical. And I think that's morale boosting. I think that, you know, I see my dad's
00:22:21.400
Navy and, you know, I saw that in the Navy. Guys that, you know, would be able to lift each other
00:22:26.120
up because, you know, regardless of the circumstances, finding little reasons to celebrate, big stuff.
00:22:33.960
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You and your manhood can thank me later. Now let me get back to my interview with John.
00:23:30.360
No, I love it. The question I have along those lines is how do you reconcile having an eye for
00:23:35.240
the future and vision? Because I talk a lot about vision and execution as well, which is what you're
00:23:38.540
talking about here. Having that hope and that vision of the future and what it could actually
00:23:42.120
be like versus living in the now. How do you reconcile the two when they seem like they can
00:23:46.140
be opposites in a way? Yeah, no doubt. Yeah. I think it's like anything else that becomes healthy is
00:23:53.040
finding out what works for you is also key. I'm not opposed to TV, watching TV, but there is a time
00:24:00.780
when that becomes unhealthy. There's a time when it serves me and there's a time when it doesn't.
00:24:04.460
Just like everything in life, having a beer or going for a run. There's a point when running
00:24:11.600
becomes unhealthy for me. And there's a point when it's healthy. And I think that's all
00:24:15.100
experimentation. So I think the guys got to really be honest with themselves. And that's why I like
00:24:20.720
some type of review system in your life. So an evening review, a weekly review. What's your 80-20
00:24:25.780
analysis, right? What's working? What's not? And when you look at the week, just say, did I spend too much
00:24:30.220
time thinking and hoping? For a lot of guys, they get so caught up in the action part, they forget
00:24:35.320
the strategy part. And all those quotes, and a lot of them are misattributed. But the idea of if I had
00:24:42.740
an hour to solve a problem, I would spend the first 55 minutes figuring out what problem am I trying to
00:24:48.860
And then so I think that strategy and thinking, to me, that's the hope piece. It's like, what am I
00:24:54.460
trying to create? What is that vision? And then being able to take the action and only knowing for
00:25:01.440
yourself, am I just leaning on vision a little too much to stay away from the action piece? Or is there
00:25:07.440
really a time to sit and think? And I believe that we'll make terrible decisions with that over time.
00:25:13.020
We'll have some wins. But if you pay attention, you'll know what works for you. And note what
00:25:17.260
works for other people. And if you've got some good boys around you, they'll probably be honest
00:25:20.900
with you too. So that's a good question. I mean, how do you find those people? Because you talk
00:25:25.640
about earlier when we were having this conversation, you talked about proximity, which I think you're
00:25:29.300
referring to being around people that are going to lift you up as opposed to pull you down.
00:25:33.020
How do you identify these people and start to develop that relationship or be around them? Just be
00:25:38.460
So for me, it's an exercise I do about every six months. And I call that the who's in
00:25:42.880
your front row. And I just think it's eight people. And so I look at an overall eight of my
00:25:47.440
entire life, who are the eight most important people. But then I break it down by category.
00:25:51.300
And I say, for my business, for my charity, for my family life, what are the eight people in each
00:25:56.980
of those categories? And I literally rank them from most to least important, if you will.
00:26:01.720
And then what I do is I schedule my life around those people and ask myself, what does it look
00:26:07.760
like to be connecting with that person at a level 10? And how am I going to... And by the way,
00:26:12.020
I remember very clearly years ago, Ryan, when I did this exercise, you know, I had been driving
00:26:17.160
down the road right after I did the exercise and I got a phone call from somebody that was on my top
00:26:22.420
eight list and then wasn't on my top eight list. And I had been very accustomed to taking the call
00:26:26.800
from this person. Just like, you know, I always take...
00:26:30.520
As soon as that person called, I sent them to voicemail. And then I called another person that
00:26:35.820
was on my top eight list. So that's a practical way that I put it into play, where it was literally
00:26:40.540
about learning to send to voicemail and then to make the phone call to the people that I
00:26:45.440
feel are the most important people in my life. Now, it's not about a value of an individual.
00:26:50.260
I'm not determining the value of a human being. I'm talking about the desire of how much time do
00:26:54.920
I want to spend with each person and, you know, aligning values. Like, what are we chasing? I want
00:26:59.240
to build with friends. But I also know that if we're building towards the same thing, it makes it a lot
00:27:03.280
easier to hang out. When people are involved in our charity, I spend a lot more time with them.
00:27:07.900
And the truth is, the charity is that important to me that if somebody doesn't really align with
00:27:11.920
the charity, there's probably not a good chance that I'm going to be spending a lot of time with
00:27:15.980
Yeah. I mean, there's just not enough time in the day to save everybody.
00:27:19.140
I get that. No, that's a great point. I mean, you bring up a valid point. It's not about
00:27:23.200
the individual's worth. They certainly have worth. It's just about, is this going to be someone who's
00:27:28.220
going to help me get to where I want to go? And can I help them to where they would like to go?
00:27:32.560
Yeah. And Ryan, let me make one more quick comment on that, which I think that I really
00:27:36.920
want to give a quality answer to what you ask because it's a quality question. And I think
00:27:41.960
that if guys are listening and they're looking for a word, the word that I was getting at was
00:27:45.820
values, right? What are your values and what are their values and how do values align? It's like a
00:27:51.220
good marriage. It's a good partnership. It's a good friendship. And when we're trying to pick our
00:27:55.720
people that we're going to go to battle with, we want people that align in some ways with values or
00:28:00.420
that, by the way, I totally get this too. They have a strength or a superpower that may be very
00:28:07.660
different than ours, right? And so it's not that we're alike in all ways, but oftentimes our values
00:28:15.780
Right. So the way we go about getting to that might be a little different, even though we're
00:28:21.440
Yeah. It makes sense. What are some of your values?
00:28:23.240
You know, I value, the first thing I would say is that I value family. You know, people often ask what I
00:28:27.800
do and I say, I'm a dad, I'm a husband. And when I'm not doing that, I'm a speaker and I run the
00:28:33.240
charity. But I think that my highest priority, my highest value is my family. When I get to the end
00:28:39.420
of my life, that's the thing that I'm going to be most proud of is how I showed up in that space.
00:28:45.160
I value relationships and friends. I feel like for me, Ryan, one of the greatest compliments somebody
00:28:50.980
could give me in my life is that I'm a great friend. You know, that I'm somebody that shows up for
00:28:54.860
people that I under promise and over deliver. I'm somebody that brings out the best in people,
00:28:59.540
you know, that I'm not a jerk. You know, those are things that ultimately at the end of my life,
00:29:03.400
I know, by the way, that does it. I don't want to be that. I don't want to be. I don't want that
00:29:06.940
to be confused with whether or not I want to be liked by everybody because I did want to be liked
00:29:11.060
by everybody at some point. And now I hope people like me. I mean, who wants to be hated? I don't
00:29:16.160
want to be hated. Right. But the reality is that I know if I show up big in the world, people are
00:29:20.120
going to dislike me. I mean, I remember one of my wife's friends was like, I don't like John because he's
00:29:24.300
too nice. I don't trust. I'm like, yeah, so you're going to be less nice, right? I can't win. You
00:29:29.020
know, like I'm just going to be me. Yeah. I had a mentor of mine tell me you could be reading from
00:29:33.300
the Bible and people will still find a way to hate you. Right, dude. You know what I mean? So if
00:29:37.680
you're if you're crushing it, people are going to be like, you know, they're going to find a reason
00:29:41.160
to hate you. And if you're not crushing it, you're too lazy. And I mean, it's just, you know.
00:29:45.400
So I want to go back to the first value. You said family. And I believe that about you. I know
00:29:49.720
you a little bit more so than maybe some of the guys listening. So I believe that about you. But if I asked
00:29:53.880
10 guys, 10 of them would say family and nine of them would be proving otherwise, meaning that they
00:30:00.520
may have said family is important, but they're not really showing that the family is important.
00:30:04.080
How do you make this connection? Because so many guys are like, oh, I'm consumed. I'm busy. I got
00:30:07.880
this and I got this and I got to do this. And I can't like I really want to be with my kids. I
00:30:11.780
really want to connect with my wife, but I can't. Tell me a little bit about how you're doing that.
00:30:14.600
I think we pay lip service to a lot of things. And by the way, I tell you 100 percent like I've
00:30:19.780
ever been times in my life when I'm like, I am not living up to this value that I proclaim to the
00:30:25.300
world that family is important. Like my actions are not representing that. I always think, you know,
00:30:29.540
if you want to know what somebody values, just look at their calendar, you know, and that'll show you.
00:30:34.440
And I've had I've had some real wins with that where I thought that I was if anybody looked at
00:30:38.640
my calendar, I'd be very proud of that. And I've also had some times when I didn't. The most important
00:30:43.060
people that this will matter to is your family. So just ask yourself, like if your family was asked in
00:30:47.760
private, how are you showing up? What would their answer be? Really check in with that.
00:30:52.080
But for the world, you know, for me, I think that the way guys know they see it for me is like when
00:30:57.980
I give you an example, when we launched our dad's retreat this year, people were like that totally
00:31:03.160
aligns, John, that that for me says John Roman all over it. That's when I knew that I was actually
00:31:10.120
living out my value when guys would say that not like the response wasn't, oh, he's hosting a dad's
00:31:15.780
retreat. Hmm. How on earth is that happening? Right. That's weird. Yeah. There's a disconnect
00:31:21.120
there or something like that. Right. So that felt really good because I think that that's a way that
00:31:25.340
I was able to represent that. But I've got to tell you that it's really I'm not winning. I told these
00:31:31.020
guys when we started this dad's retreat, I don't feel like I'm totally winning the dad game right now.
00:31:35.860
Partially why I want to have the dad's retreat is because I want to be an attendee. Like I'm not the dad
00:31:40.420
expert. I'm not. I don't have guys come to learn from me, bring in some of the dad experts in.
00:31:44.760
But I think that every guy in that room has something genius to share. And I think that
00:31:48.760
it's also good to be able to learn from guys about like, hey, where did you really fail and
00:31:53.200
how did you bounce back from that? Because I think that's a killer part of it, too, is like,
00:31:57.140
you know, because you're going to fail big time as a dad. I think some of the best dad advice I ever
00:32:00.620
got was somebody who's like, you will mess up your kids. The question is, yeah, what do you in what
00:32:06.320
way? Right. Like, I mean, no matter what you do, you're going to either be too nice or too hard or
00:32:10.920
like some way, shape or form, you're going to mess them up because it's just you cannot be perfect.
00:32:14.760
In that. Yes. I define being a great dad as flexible and engaged. You know, like if I'm
00:32:19.240
there, if I show up, that's big. That's when I think I'm winning. And the second thing is,
00:32:24.240
if I'm flexible, meaning that like I've got to know that I can stand like a rock with certain
00:32:27.900
values. But I also know that I have to constantly be open to learning. I got to be able to admit I
00:32:32.980
was wrong. I did something. Yeah. Like that's I think that's one of the things really hard for guys,
00:32:37.420
Ryan, is that it's like, how do you be totally confident and be like, yes, because certainty is
00:32:42.260
power, right? Certainty is powerful. But at the same time, be like, and I'm open to learning.
00:32:47.520
And sure, like that's difficult to earn that respect as a leader to say, I make decisions and
00:32:53.100
I'm certain and I go with them. And I think decision making is powerful. But at the same time,
00:32:57.300
I'm open to being wrong. I'm open to changing my mind. I'm a work in progress, brother.
00:33:03.660
No, I love that. That makes just a ton of sense. You know, what's interesting about this idea of
00:33:07.900
of self-reflection and self-awareness and just being aware of what you're good at and what
00:33:11.560
you're not. And for me, if I fail in that, I always have a wife who's willing to call me on that
00:33:15.860
because she'll say to me, Ryan, you're teaching men how to be better men or you're talking about
00:33:19.740
being a dad, yet you aren't really being a great dad at this point. So I think having somebody who's
00:33:24.720
going to hold your feet to the fire helps as well.
00:33:26.400
It's so true. My OK, first of all, my wife is from Siberia. She's born and raised in Russia,
00:33:31.220
moved here when she was 18. And, you know, culturally, I'll tell you, she will tell you like it is.
00:33:35.860
And a lot of times, you know, something's happening in the home behind closed doors and
00:33:40.520
she'll be like, hey, if all those podcast listeners, if all those people were listening
00:33:43.880
to you now, what do you think they would think? Would they be blown away? Would they be really
00:33:47.260
impressed? I know this conversation, man. Oh, dude, it's so great, you know. But the truth
00:33:51.380
is that at the time, you know, I might even get a little defensive about it. But when the dust settles
00:33:55.980
and my friend Paul Martino says, he's a relationship coach, he always says, when the bell stops ringing,
00:34:01.760
you know, when the bell stops ringing and I calm down, I got to admit she's right.
00:34:05.800
There's a lot of things she's she's right about. And that to me, having somebody to call you out,
00:34:09.940
man. So, so key. Hey, on that note, I got to tell you, this is something good for the guys to do
00:34:14.760
with speaking of like your brotherhood, you know, your friends that are around you that are real
00:34:18.620
good buddies, people that are really going to call you out. One of my best buddies every year,
00:34:23.300
we have a tradition where we sit down and say three things that, you know, three things you love
00:34:27.000
about me, three things that nobody wants to tell me that you would want. Interesting. I like that.
00:34:32.240
And it's great, man, because some of our best commentary or best, best conversation have been
00:34:37.960
from those comments of like, here's what nobody wants to tell you. And it's like, shit, that was
00:34:43.300
I like that. I like that. Okay. So I want to move topics here really quick. I want to go back to
00:34:47.660
the front row analogy that you're using for living life large and those types of things.
00:34:52.220
I understand that you're looking at the people who are in the front row and they're living different,
00:34:56.320
they're engaged, they're active, they're, they're where the action is. I'm wondering about
00:34:59.800
the performer is where's the performer in this analogy. Is that somebody that we want to strive
00:35:05.040
to be that performer? Tell me how that fits into the analogy of the front row. Yeah. No,
00:35:08.740
if I, if what, if what I hear is that this is something that I think people will hear,
00:35:13.360
they'll hear from this front row analogy. Like, I don't want to be a spectator of life. Even is that,
00:35:17.860
is that right? It's like, I want to be on stage. I want to be on stage, man. I want to be on the
00:35:21.060
field. People like, don't be on the sidelines in life. Like be in the game. I totally get the
00:35:25.680
analogy. And I think at times it's totally appropriate. This is a, this is an analogy of
00:35:30.860
being close to the thing that you want to be close to. This isn't about whether or not you're
00:35:34.520
a spectator or a participant per se on the field. This is about whether or not you're a spectator or
00:35:40.560
participant in general in life. Cause you can be at a concert and be a total spectator. You could be in
00:35:45.620
the back, checked out. You could also be in the front part of the show. Now I will tell you, people
00:35:50.500
are like, well, if you're in the front row, you're a, you're still a spectator. And I'm like,
00:35:53.660
well, that's BS. Ask any band because when you're a, when you're the band, how important is the
00:35:58.420
front row? When you're a, when you're an athlete, how important is the front row? So sometimes we're
00:36:03.260
on stage, sometimes we're in the stands, but we need to learn how to cheer for people. We need to
00:36:07.620
learn how to show up and participate. See, that's the, exactly the problem is some people think that
00:36:11.320
just because they're in that seat that they can't make a difference. They're not part of the thing,
00:36:15.480
but they are, they're totally part of it. That's a limiting belief. When we start thinking about
00:36:20.080
life in that way, too many people think they're in a spot right now in life where they're just a
00:36:25.080
spectator. They think they're in a seat that says they have to watch, but they're not. They can be
00:36:30.380
a total participant in that moment. And there's no question that, you know, uh, you, you're going to
00:36:35.500
be in both places in life, performer and, and, uh, you know, in the seat, but both people could be
00:36:41.080
fully engaged. Right, right. Well, John, we're winding down on time a little bit. I want to ask you a
00:36:45.380
couple additional questions. The first one I want to ask you, and you're the perfect man to ask
00:36:49.220
about this is what does it mean to be a man? Oh, for me, what it means is, uh, is about stepping
00:36:54.460
up. You know, I think about being in the front row is like a man is a man is somebody that steps
00:36:59.320
up. When I felt the most manly in my life, when I felt like I was providing for my family,
00:37:04.520
when I was impressing my wife, when I was, uh, inspiring my children or the moments when I've
00:37:09.320
stepped up, when I've stepped up with certainty, when I knew who I was, um, and I acted in that space
00:37:15.580
of courage. You know, I, for me, that's being a man it's acting with courage and it's taking risks
00:37:21.880
and it's going out there and really putting your best foot forward. I love it, brother. And I'm in
00:37:25.680
total agreement with that. I want to ask you how we can connect with you, but I also want to know
00:37:30.180
maybe a little bit more about the retreat. I think you're sold out. So maybe there's a future one
00:37:34.120
coming up and then we didn't talk about the book at all. I know you also have a book that's coming
00:37:38.760
out. So fill us in a little bit about your work and then how we can connect with you.
00:37:41.960
Yeah. So everybody can, uh, we can connect at front row factor.com. All the stuff is there,
00:37:46.420
the charity, the retreat stuff, everything will be there, including the book. The book's launching
00:37:50.900
in, uh, February 6th, uh, of this coming year, uh, which is by the way, the 11th year anniversary
00:37:57.180
of the front row foundation. That was the very first night we sent somebody to a front row event.
00:38:01.220
So a very special day for us. Yeah. Totally pumped about the book and you know, we'll, we'll share
00:38:06.320
stories of our recipients and all the strategies for living our front row life. The dad's retreat is sold
00:38:10.920
out this year. Uh, but we are going to host another one next year as well. We've already started the
00:38:15.800
waiting list on that. We'd love for you guys to check it out. That's also at front row factor.com.
00:38:20.160
So I'm pumped, man. We're just trying to make a difference in the world. We're trying to do our
00:38:23.560
thing. And I, Hey, I want to take a quick second. Cause I don't know if I'm going to run out of time,
00:38:27.260
Ryan, but I want to share with you, dude, I'm so grateful for have been, you know, for, for having a
00:38:32.560
front row seat to your life right now, because what you're doing is absolutely essential. I know you're
00:38:38.400
inspiring a lot of people and you're inspiring me brother. So thank you. Well, I feel the same.
00:38:42.600
I really do. I appreciate you. I followed you for some time now. I know we've tried to make this
00:38:45.980
interview work for probably a year. It seems like we've been trying to make this work and I'm glad
00:38:49.520
we're connected in the way that we are. And I'm excited to see what you have in store too.
00:38:52.900
Thanks man. Appreciate the support. So John, what we'll do is we'll make sure we link all of that
00:38:56.680
up to the show notes. That way the guys, anybody that's listening right now can, uh, can get access to
00:39:00.820
that stuff. Guys, go check out John's work. You will be impressed. And I promise you'll start maybe
00:39:04.520
sitting in the front row and participating in life a little bit more. John, thanks for being on the show, man.
00:39:07.760
Thanks Ryan. There you have it, man. Mr. John Roman teaching us a bit about what it takes to live
00:39:13.040
life on the front row. So make sure you go visit him over his website at frontrowfactor.com.
00:39:17.700
So you can check out all the good he's doing in the world and get inspired to do some of the good
00:39:20.840
yourself. Now, also I did not mention it earlier, but if you're sitting on the fence about our elite
00:39:24.620
mastermind, which I'm sure you've heard of by now, this is the time to do it. Most men in my
00:39:29.000
experience taper off towards the end of the year, but the men inside of our elite mastermind,
00:39:32.860
the iron council, they're actually ramping up for a killer 2017. We released a new program
00:39:38.880
called the 12 week battle plan a couple of months ago. And the men who are actually implementing this
00:39:43.220
in their lives are seeing huge, huge results in their businesses, their families, their wealth,
00:39:48.380
their health, just about any other metric that you can measure progress in your life.
00:39:51.260
So join us right now, start doing something about taking your life to the next level. You can visit us
00:39:56.200
at orderofman.com slash iron council, and hopefully we'll see you inside guys. I look forward to
00:40:01.000
talking with you on Friday for our Friday field notes, but until then take action and become the
00:40:04.780
man you were meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take
00:40:09.940
charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order