Order of Man - OoM 084： Living Life on the Front Row with Jon Vroman

00:00:00.000 Being present in the moment is something we talk a ton about here on the show.

00:00:03.240 It seems like there's too many men letting life pass them by simply because they are not engaged in life.

00:00:08.620 My guest today, John Roman, joins me to talk about how to find your why,

00:00:12.120 how to overcome your fear when pursuing it,

00:00:14.300 finding people to join you on your journey, and how you can live life on the front row.

00:00:18.500 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest.

00:00:21.340 Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:24.260 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:28.380 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:33.800 This is your life. This is who you are.

00:00:36.340 This is who you will become at the end of the day.

00:00:39.240 And after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:43.320 Men, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Michler, and I am the host and founder of Order of Man.

00:00:47.280 Now, if you're new to the show today, I want to welcome you.

00:00:49.080 This is a show about all things manly, so you are in the right place.

00:00:52.280 Exciting announcement today.

00:00:53.340 We are going to hit 1 million downloads for all time, either today or tomorrow.

00:00:58.100 I'd rather have it be today, so please make sure you share this with your brothers, your dad, your buddies,

00:01:02.680 basically any man who needs to hear the message of Order of Man.

00:01:05.760 And in the meantime, I do want to say thank you.

00:01:08.700 I want to say thank you for supporting this movement.

00:01:10.900 That's exactly what it is.

00:01:12.040 It is a movement, and I am completely honored to have you as part of it.

00:01:16.460 Now, speaking of movement and on to a completely unrelated topic,

00:01:19.400 I do want to introduce and thank our sponsor for the show today, Sheath Underwear.

00:01:23.080 Now, you might be wondering what movement has to do with underwear,

00:01:26.000 but if you're active like I am, you know that things have a tendency to shift around a bit,

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00:01:49.640 Now, as always, guys, we have got a great one lined up for you today,

00:01:51.880 but before I get into the show and our guest,

00:01:53.800 know that the show notes for this show can be found at ORDEROFMAN.com slash 084.

00:01:58.380 Now, let me introduce you to our guest.

00:02:00.140 John Vroman is first a husband and a father of two boys

00:02:02.500 and a social entrepreneur who helps people live in the front row.

00:02:05.420 He has a passion for speaking, coaching, running live events,

00:02:08.300 and hosting his very own podcast, The Front Row Factor,

00:02:11.140 which I was fortunate enough to be a guest on.

00:02:13.240 John is also the author of The Front Row Factor,

00:02:15.200 Crush Your Fear, Create Epic Moments, and Celebrate Now Before It's Too Late.

00:02:18.800 In 2005, he co-founded Front Row Foundation to help create life-changing experiences for people in

00:02:23.720 need. He's run three ultra marathons. Now, I think it's because he's a little crazy,

00:02:27.720 but mostly he does it to raise money for his charity. But he also loves traveling,

00:02:31.500 he's addicted to learning, and he has a passion to help people live fully alive,

00:02:35.080 which you will recognize in the show today.

00:02:38.560 John, thanks for joining me on the show. What's up, man?

00:02:40.300 Hey, brother. So grateful to be here, man. Thanks for having me.

00:02:44.000 Yeah, this is part two of our discussion, right? We did on your show,

00:02:47.200 what, a couple of months ago or so? Yeah, that was great. Thank you.

00:02:50.020 Yeah, you bet. You bet. And I'm excited to follow up. I'm excited to see what's going

00:02:53.240 on in your universe over the past 60 days or so. I know we've had big changes, so it'll be good to

00:02:58.020 catch up, and I'm sure the guys will benefit on our conversation as well.

00:03:01.960 Yeah, awesome, man. Looking forward to it.

00:03:03.940 I want to talk, I mean, we just dive right into this thing. I want to talk about what

00:03:06.740 Front Row Factor is. Tell me a little bit about the premise. Tell me why Front Row Factor. Just

00:03:10.940 catch us up to speed, and then that'll set the framework for the discussion that we're going to have

00:03:14.440 today. Perfect. The Front Row Factor is what we have learned over the last 10 years of connecting

00:03:21.400 with people, which all started with the charity, Front Row Foundation. And for anybody listening

00:03:25.940 who doesn't know, it's a wish-granting organization that helps kids and adults who have a life-threatening

00:03:30.920 illness to see the live event of their dreams from the Front Row. And for us, we started doing

00:03:35.940 this back in 2005. And so the Front Row Factor is what we have learned from working with people

00:03:43.080 over the last 10 years who are fighting for their life about what it takes to really live your life

00:03:47.500 to the fullest. So that is the Front Row Factor. It's all the little pieces of the puzzle that I

00:03:53.760 didn't ever see coming, by the way. I should mention that when we started the charity, we were really

00:03:57.200 looking for a way to serve and looking for a way to give. But I didn't expect to be such a recipient

00:04:02.860 myself. And I think being around people who are fighting for their lives teaches you a lot,

00:04:07.520 gives you a lot of perspective and cuts away a lot of the BS and gets right to the heart of what

00:04:13.920 real living is all about. And that's the Front Row Factor. I would also add this piece too, which is

00:04:19.080 that the metaphor of the Front Row is very simply, it's about what we put ourselves close to.

00:04:24.360 It's the people and it's the places and the experiences in our life. And so the Front Row Factor

00:04:29.100 is all about proximity. For us, the charity was all about putting people in the front row of their

00:04:33.880 favorite live event. But what we learned was that the life principle of that is about what you put

00:04:38.720 yourself close to every day of your life. You know, it's getting connected to the guys, like people

00:04:43.500 finding their way to your world, you know, and getting connected to your community and to your

00:04:47.500 mastermind. That's what we call who's in your Front Row. And those are the big decisions.

00:04:52.620 Yeah. So tell me a little bit about the catalyst to start the foundation. I mean,

00:04:55.700 is this something that you've always had on your mind? Was there something personally in your life that

00:04:59.320 you thought we've got to do this because I can be a change in somebody's life? What's that all

00:05:03.720 about? Yeah, you know, that's a really good question. Back in 2005, there was three things

00:05:07.660 that happened to me all at the same time. One was somebody had asked me to kind of rate my

00:05:12.620 contribution to the world on a one to 10 scale. I didn't like my answer. So there was a seed that

00:05:17.220 was planted there. I need to do something. The second thing that happened was I was at a Jason

00:05:21.920 Mraz concert and I was in the very back row with my girlfriend and I looked to the front and I just saw

00:05:26.920 this group of people having the time of their life. And that was the second aha I thought, man,

00:05:31.040 life is different in the front row because I could see the energy was there. And then the third thing

00:05:36.100 that happened was a buddy of mine challenged me to do an ultra marathon. And at the time,

00:05:40.540 I had never run more than two miles in my whole life. I was not a runner. And he was like, do we

00:05:45.720 got to do this? And I'm like, no way. No, I'm not doing it. No way, man. That's not me. And I think

00:05:52.640 I said something to the effect of I can't. And then he responded with some Jedi mind trick like if you

00:05:58.820 can't, you must. And that's what he said to me. And at first I thought, I don't even know what

00:06:03.140 that means, man. I don't get it. And then it hit me. It was like, dude, if you say you can't do

00:06:07.380 something, that's the thing you've got to run towards. That's the thing that you've got to

00:06:10.020 you've got to charge at. And so I just said on the spot, I go, I go, screw it. Let's do it,

00:06:14.880 man. I'm in. And I said, when are we doing it? He goes, 16 weeks from right now. I was like,

00:06:20.240 that's insane. So I, but I, but I was at the point of my life where I was interested in testing

00:06:25.280 my abilities. And so that, uh, when I said, yes, I went home. I told my, my girlfriend at the time,

00:06:30.940 I was like, babe, I'm going to put on a pair of running shoes and I'm going to go out and I'm

00:06:33.640 going to run as far as I can until my feet bleed. And I was sort of inspired by this. Uh, I don't

00:06:38.680 know. Do you remember the book, the ultra marathon man by Dean Karnasas? Sure. Epic book, right? And he

00:06:44.120 has this story where he went out and ran like 30 miles in the middle of the night. And I had that in my

00:06:48.240 mind and I was like, I'm going to do that. And I was like, I'm going to see what I'm made of.

00:06:51.780 And turns out I was made of about 3.7 miles. Sure. Of course. Right. But the thing was this,

00:06:59.580 um, we knew that we needed a purpose to finish that run. We needed some deeper cause or meaning

00:07:05.640 to pull this off other than just finishing. So we decided to raise money for a charity and that

00:07:10.920 turned into, well, what if we started a charity? And that was the first question that led us to

00:07:16.000 the start of front row foundation. What would we do if we could do anything and design it the way that

00:07:20.380 we would want? And this really taps in for me, Ryan, my greatest fear, my greatest love,

00:07:24.460 my greatest fear, having my life end early, my greatest love experiences with people.

00:07:29.020 You know, these are like moments that count, you know, doing something epic that feels good to me.

00:07:33.740 And so I thought if I can help people who are fighting for their life to have the best day of

00:07:37.180 their life ever, and then to let that be a metaphor for how they could live every day of their life,

00:07:40.980 that felt good. And now we tend to, we think that we're more of like a blend between a coaching

00:07:46.480 organization and a wish granting. So it's not just about a day. It's about how we live every day.

00:07:50.380 But that was how it all started, man. It was these three things coming together. And then

00:07:53.880 we just launched it.

00:07:55.320 You know, it's really fascinating is I hear you and I hear the 85 or so other guests that we've

00:07:59.820 had on the show. One of the things, the quotes that always comes to mind, and I'm going to say

00:08:02.900 this and all the guys listening are probably going to roll their eyes because they hear me say this

00:08:06.180 over and over again. But John Eldridge, are you familiar with his work, Wild at Heart?

00:08:10.100 Oh, yes, I know that. Yeah, I didn't know the name, but yeah, I got it. Yeah.

00:08:13.360 Anyways, one of the quotes that he has, which is my favorite all-time quote on masculinity is,

00:08:17.260 deep in his heart, every man is longing for an adventure to live, a battle to fight,

00:08:20.660 and a beauty to rescue. Yeah. And it's interesting to hear you talk about what led you up to the

00:08:26.620 Front Row Foundation because I think we're basically hitting all three of those things. And that's

00:08:30.300 pretty cool to hear. And I think a lot of guys are that way.

00:08:32.240 A hundred percent. Yeah.

00:08:33.100 What was that? Oh, go ahead.

00:08:34.520 We find that purpose, Ryan. I think that's tremendous fuel. And that was a turning point for

00:08:39.160 me. That was a big moment in my life. I remember, you know, on that run, I kept thinking two

00:08:43.340 things. One was a day of pain is worth a lifetime of pride. I knew that I could make it through any

00:08:49.000 amount of pain, but for the rest of my life, I'd lean on that day. And that's true. I've always been

00:08:53.960 able to go back to that moment and recognize that everything in some way is an ultra event,

00:08:58.600 you know? And the second thing was, I believe that when your why has real heart, like why you want to

00:09:04.360 do something, your how always gets legs. You'll just figure it out. Like, I didn't know shit about 0.87

00:09:09.280 running a marathon. I didn't know anything about running a charity. I knew nothing, 0.98

00:09:14.560 but we just knew that if we had a deep enough purpose, we'd figure it out.

00:09:18.020 It's really interesting on the, uh, to talk with you about your marathon really quickly.

00:09:21.680 Uh, several months ago, maybe five, six months ago, I went and did the 60 hour endurance event

00:09:26.640 for Spartan races. And the, the one thing that got me through is that my kids and my wife sent me a

00:09:32.020 picture. It was a text and they sent me a picture and they had this poster that said, go dad,

00:09:36.320 we know you can do it 60 hours. And I remember when things got very difficult,

00:09:39.720 I drew upon that picture. But the reason was, is I wanted to prove to my kids that

00:09:45.280 Mickler is that we do hard things and we do difficult things. And when we step up to the

00:09:49.520 plate, we keep driving, even though things that make it, make it difficult. And we can finish

00:09:53.500 if we put our mind to that. So I, I can completely reaffirm what you just said about having your why.

00:09:59.860 What was your why as you were finishing that event? And even now,

00:10:02.620 the why for us during that first run was that we sent out a letter to all of our friends and

00:10:07.780 said, we want to start this charity and we want to help these people. And, uh, they donated money.

00:10:13.260 And so we were finishing it for all the people that donated money for us to create our first

00:10:18.180 front row event ever, which was a friend of mine whose mother was battling cancer. And we sent her

00:10:22.260 to go see Brooks and done. And, uh, that was an awesome experience. And then the other events that I

00:10:28.880 had done, the other ultra events, we were raising money for people that were ready for their front

00:10:33.700 row events. Um, one, one girl in particular comes to mind. Her name was Sophie, this little four year 0.58

00:10:38.720 old girl who wanted to go see Kelly Clarkson. And, uh, I, at first I thought, man, how big of a fan

00:10:44.720 could you be at four? But this little girl was a huge fan, knew all the words to all the songs and

00:10:49.520 her mother, Lauren, who are still close friends with who lives here in Philadelphia. Um, you know,

00:10:54.260 we, we knew this little girl was having, was battling a brain tumor. And so we went out,

00:10:58.980 we did a second ultra marathon, raised money for her and sent her to go see Kelly. And she got a

00:11:03.540 chance to get backstage and meet Kelly. And, um, you know, we have a picture right now hanging in my

00:11:07.880 office and of this little girl and Kelly Clarkson hanging out. And her mother told us that was one

00:11:12.100 of the greatest moments of her daughter's life, just meeting her idol. And then when I think about

00:11:17.040 anything difficult that I'm going through and when I find my deep reason why it's always about

00:11:21.460 making those moments possible. Cause you know, it's not just about the little girl, Sophie,

00:11:26.100 which, uh, was reason enough, but it's also about Sophie's family. You know, Sophie lost her life,

00:11:31.500 sadly, about two months after the event. But I will tell you that her mom and her grandparents and

00:11:37.020 her, you know, the people that were closest to her get a chance to also live that front row memory 1.00

00:11:41.800 on forever and ever and ever. And they know that in Sophie's final days, they did something epic for

00:11:46.460 her. And that's what continues to drive me is the ongoing impact that these events have.

00:11:51.460 Yeah. That's really powerful, man. I guess my question, cause we hear this all the time and

00:11:55.240 it's almost so cliche at this point that you tune it out when you hear find your why, right?

00:11:59.980 Any insights into somebody, a man finding his why, and then we can get into the second part of that

00:12:05.740 question, which is okay. What do you do about it now?

00:12:07.600 Yeah. Well, I think that the, the, where we find our why is, it was when we get clear about what I,

00:12:12.960 for me, it was what I fear and what I love. I mean, those were the two things when I sat down and

00:12:17.680 asked myself, like, really, what am I trying to avoid? What problem do I want to solve? If you

00:12:21.860 will, or what bothers me? You know, that's a, that's something that provides us great fuel.

00:12:27.300 And the other piece of that is, well, what do we feel passionate about? Or what do we love?

00:12:30.840 What are we drawn to those two things? I think for me were, were critical in finding that. But I

00:12:37.040 also don't think that it's a magic formula where if somebody sits down and just does these three

00:12:41.160 things that it'll automatically come to them. For me, this is like 30 minutes later. Like I think

00:12:45.680 this was a process and it's a process of experimentation. It's like you get closer,

00:12:49.480 you like find something and then you go try it. And then you're like, oh, that worked or that didn't

00:12:54.260 work. But either way you, you, and sometimes you stumble upon it. I think sometimes it does hit you

00:12:59.520 as an epiphany, like, oh, that makes total sense. Intellectually, I got it. Now I'm going to go do

00:13:03.960 it. Other times we actually end up just finding our way through the dark, stumbling upon something

00:13:09.740 that was like, man, that really called to me. But if you're not aware enough, if you don't have a

00:13:14.580 level of awareness to be able to notice it, then opportunity is knocking. You just can't hear it.

00:13:20.180 It's like, it's right there, but you're so numb. You know, like I remember my buddy once said to me,

00:13:25.860 he goes, when he quit drinking and started doing things differently with his life, he's like,

00:13:29.080 I went from the process of numbing to becoming. And this idea of just, instead of trying to

00:13:34.000 constantly tune things out, he was trying to get silent, which is oftentimes super uncomfortable.

00:13:39.680 So I think for a lot of guys, they got to stop putting on an act and, you know, they got to stop

00:13:43.180 faking their way through it for a moment and just be like, what do I really think? What really matters

00:13:47.380 to me? Um, and stop trying to be somebody that the world maybe told them for the longest time they

00:13:52.800 needed to do or who they needed to be or what it was, you know, what it was supposed to be all about

00:13:57.040 and actually ask themselves what they think. Yeah. I mean, I know with, uh, with order man,

00:14:02.000 it was actually very similar to that. You talk about stumbling. It wasn't an epiphany that I

00:14:04.980 said, I have to do this and this is going to be the next great thing. But looking back on and out

00:14:08.780 literally was some, something that I stumbled across. But the one thing that I think really

00:14:12.640 separates the growth that we've had from some of those who may have had an idea or even started an

00:14:18.020 idea, but didn't completely finish was my ability to take action. And I think that's where a lot of

00:14:22.740 guys fall. You talk a lot about crushing fears and I think fear frankly is probably the number one

00:14:28.860 thing in one form or the other that would keep any man from pursuing his dream. How do you overcome

00:14:34.220 some of the fears that come into our minds? Yeah. Good, good question. Um, for me, I think that one

00:14:40.280 of the ways, just like you talked about is taking massive action regardless. There's a, there's something

00:14:46.160 that for me is really worked in my life, which is, uh, you know, no matter how scared I am,

00:14:51.780 just say yes, just jump in. I've noticed that that really works. Um, it, I call that in my speech,

00:14:57.160 I call that acting your way into feeling, which is I'm, I'm terrified. I don't feel confident,

00:15:02.220 but if I act that way, I'll get there. And there's some great science now that backs a lot of that up.

00:15:06.720 Amy Cuddy wrote about that in her book presence and all sorts of interesting science about that.

00:15:11.300 But for me, that is this different. If I can interrupt you real quickly, I just wanted to ask,

00:15:15.160 is this different than fake it till you make it? Because sometimes I think people have a negative

00:15:18.900 connotation associated with that. I mean, is there a difference between what you're saying

00:15:22.100 and that fake it till you make it mentality? Well, you know, it's interesting is I've wrestled

00:15:26.700 with this in my own life, this fake it till you make it. Yeah. I don't, I have to, I don't like the

00:15:31.340 word fake. Um, you know, for me that doesn't feel great because I've always wanted to be more

00:15:36.640 authentic and I wasn't trying to be faked fake. That's why I like the word act, act your way into

00:15:41.940 feeling that to me feels better because, um, it's not that I'm being fake. It's actually that I'm,

00:15:47.680 I'm acting in a way that's modeling some act, some, some behavior that I think is going to be

00:15:53.880 really important to figuring this out. And then as a result of that, I feel better about it.

00:15:58.300 You know, so to me, that's, that's how I overcome that fear. But I do think you could argue that that's

00:16:04.600 the case. You know, Amy Cuddy actually talks about fake it till you become it. And it's like,

00:16:09.780 yeah, it's no problem with just acting like it, that is. And if you call that faking it fine,

00:16:14.460 but you know, whatever, it's just a debate on the, maybe the meaning of the word.

00:16:19.260 The point is you're taking an action that might be uncomfortable for you, but you're doing it

00:16:24.240 anyway. I always talk about what it's like people at a concert where they don't want to stand up

00:16:28.100 because they're afraid that they're going to offend somebody behind them or they have all these fears.

00:16:32.800 Like they don't want to dance because they think everybody's looking at them. But actually I don't

00:16:36.900 think people care that much about you. Oh, absolutely. Like if we actually knew how little

00:16:42.720 people thought of us, we would probably be offended about that. I tell people all the time,

00:16:46.800 I'm like, let me tell you, there's people in this most, there's a lot of people in this world who

00:16:49.880 don't care about you as much as you think they do. And there's also a lot of people in the world

00:16:54.180 who care a lot more amount, a lot more about you than you think they do. So I think our fears

00:16:58.680 are often just unfounded. And, uh, and, and so for me, a lot of overcoming them is just

00:17:03.780 remembering what I want. I, we talk a lot about in the charity, it's about amplifying

00:17:07.600 what, you know, what's good. So you can silence what's not. And I've, you know, I've always fallen

00:17:13.400 into that place where I'm like, it's, I tell the story about my first Jeep. Now you are a proud new

00:17:17.780 owner of a scout, right? Yes, I am. I had an old Jeep CJ seven, big tires, green tents. I love this Jeep.

00:17:24.580 Right. And this thing had a ton of rattles and I was trying to sort of monitor the amount of rattles

00:17:30.560 so I could hear the person next to me. But then I was like, screw it. I just bought a bigger radio

00:17:34.320 and handled the problem. But what I got to tell you that what I learned from that was all about

00:17:38.980 amplifying what's good. So you can silence what's not. And that's what I think, you know, even Peter

00:17:44.400 Drucker famously talked about that. Like the, the best teams are the ones that magnify the strengths.

00:17:49.120 So the weaknesses become irrelevant. It's interesting. I know a lot of guys will talk to me. How do I

00:17:54.340 eliminate negative people? How do I get toxic people out of my life? And I say, well, you'd be too busy

00:17:58.280 with the positive people that the negative people don't really matter anymore. Perfect. Yeah,

00:18:01.740 exactly. Yeah. That's it, man. Yeah. Yeah. So tell me, this is going to be a difficult question

00:18:05.800 to answer because you've had, I'm sure hundreds, if not thousands of experiences, but if you could

00:18:10.240 narrow it down to one or two, maybe key lessons or takeaways from the people, your, your clients,

00:18:15.840 I guess, for lack of a better term, the people that you're serving within the foundation,

00:18:20.180 what are some of the lessons that we can learn from them that we don't need to wait until we're on

00:18:24.820 our deathbed or until something negative happens and we can start implementing these lessons

00:18:28.100 today. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. There's so much that I can say about this, but I'll give you

00:18:32.680 sure that come to mind right away. The first is, um, there is, there is great power in having a hope

00:18:38.480 for the future. When we tell people that they're going to go to these events, uh, there's great

00:18:42.280 power in that. There's a gentleman, uh, by the name of Thomas K who we went, who we sent to go see

00:18:46.720 the rugby world cup in New Zealand. And this guy was like, I mean, he was ripped, you know, super fit

00:18:52.760 rugby player. And, you know, in the blink of an eye, his world was turned upside down. You know,

00:18:58.340 he was, uh, very shortly in a wheelchair, um, going blind. And, um, you know, I will tell you that,

00:19:04.260 you know, it was, uh, seeing pictures side by side of what, you know, when he's carrying the rugby

00:19:10.100 ball and, uh, you know, then a short time later being in this wheelchair, you see how quickly life can

00:19:16.100 transform. And we sent him to go see the rugby world cup. And he said that he was like, I will stand for the

00:19:22.380 national anthem when I go. And that became his driving force. And I think there's tremendous

00:19:27.280 power in having hope. I think some people feel like hope is just all BS. Like it's all about

00:19:32.500 action. And by the way, I'm a huge fan of action, but I will also tell you, there's no problem with

00:19:37.700 having a little hope that things could be better down the road. And we've seen that in, in, we've

00:19:42.760 seen the power of that. So I think that when somebody is facing great adversity, having some,

00:19:47.600 some hope is very key. I think the second thing we noticed, um, and that we've learned from

00:19:52.120 people is that it's all about the present moment. Everything comes down to what we can do right

00:19:56.780 now, what you can do with what you have. And we've, we've heard people say in our charity,

00:20:01.180 I'm grateful that I went through the experience of cancer. Now to somebody else that might sound

00:20:06.140 crazy, but they will tell you that cancer gave them perspective on life. Cancer helped them

00:20:10.980 appreciate the here and the now. They know that life could be ended at any moment. And I think for,

00:20:15.580 for myself, and I would ask all the guys that are listening, it's like, let mortality create

00:20:20.220 vitality in your life. The idea of mortality. I think one of the most powerful exercises I've

00:20:25.180 ever done, Ryan, as I sat down with a piece of paper on an airplane, um, I drew a dot on the left

00:20:29.640 side and it said birth. I drew a dot on the left side. It said death. And I just said, well, let's

00:20:34.240 just say I live to be a hundred. Where am I now? I'm 41 right now. And I just drew that dot. And I just

00:20:39.840 looked at it and said, how many good years do I have? Like, I mean, really amazing years. And then I

00:20:44.360 thought about my life in that moment and that mortality, that thought of when it could end,

00:20:48.280 you know, really inspired me to live more fully now. I think that's a lesson that we get is this

00:20:53.780 present moment. And then the third thing I would share is this idea of celebration, which, which

00:20:58.900 means that I think a lot of guys I know get so busy kicking ass that they forget to take a moment 0.95

00:21:03.760 and celebrate. They forget to take a moment to recognize the work they did. And I think that 0.80

00:21:09.000 celebration is a key to living a fulfilled life and that, yes, we want you to accomplish things. Yes,

00:21:14.700 we want you to go out there and crush it and do all the things you're going to do. And I think

00:21:17.780 that feels great. I'm driven to do that also. But I also got to tell you that learning to stop and

00:21:22.900 celebrate not only our own victories, but the people around us to cheer for them, to lift them

00:21:27.320 up, I think is a big key. So watching people in their time, in their darkest hours or when they're

00:21:32.760 facing death, you know, nobody ever is saying, oh, you know, oh shit, my life's going to end six 0.99

00:21:39.140 months from now. I really wish I would have gotten that last thing done at work or whatever it is. 0.98

00:21:43.700 And although I got to tell you, I'm so grateful for my work. My work provides great income for my

00:21:48.340 family. My work is doing big things in the world. But I got to tell you that if I don't balance that

00:21:53.500 out with some of the stuff that really matters, and you know what really matters when somebody's

00:21:57.360 like, you have six months to live, you know, you really get clear. And anybody can get there by just

00:22:02.980 imagining that somebody came to them. And I think there's a ton of exercises that likely many of us have

00:22:07.980 gone through. If you've been in the personal growth space, you've likely, you know, looked at writing

00:22:11.500 your eulogy and doing all these things. But the idea of taking a moment to celebrate what's good

00:22:16.320 now is really critical. And I think that's morale boosting. I think that, you know, I see my dad's

00:22:21.400 Navy and, you know, I saw that in the Navy. Guys that, you know, would be able to lift each other

00:22:26.120 up because, you know, regardless of the circumstances, finding little reasons to celebrate, big stuff.

00:22:31.840 Those are a couple that come to mind.

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00:23:25.160 You and your manhood can thank me later. Now let me get back to my interview with John.

00:23:30.360 No, I love it. The question I have along those lines is how do you reconcile having an eye for

00:23:35.240 the future and vision? Because I talk a lot about vision and execution as well, which is what you're

00:23:38.540 talking about here. Having that hope and that vision of the future and what it could actually

00:23:42.120 be like versus living in the now. How do you reconcile the two when they seem like they can

00:23:46.140 be opposites in a way? Yeah, no doubt. Yeah. I think it's like anything else that becomes healthy is

00:23:53.040 finding out what works for you is also key. I'm not opposed to TV, watching TV, but there is a time

00:24:00.780 when that becomes unhealthy. There's a time when it serves me and there's a time when it doesn't.

00:24:04.460 Just like everything in life, having a beer or going for a run. There's a point when running

00:24:11.600 becomes unhealthy for me. And there's a point when it's healthy. And I think that's all

00:24:15.100 experimentation. So I think the guys got to really be honest with themselves. And that's why I like

00:24:20.720 some type of review system in your life. So an evening review, a weekly review. What's your 80-20

00:24:25.780 analysis, right? What's working? What's not? And when you look at the week, just say, did I spend too much

00:24:30.220 time thinking and hoping? For a lot of guys, they get so caught up in the action part, they forget

00:24:35.320 the strategy part. And all those quotes, and a lot of them are misattributed. But the idea of if I had

00:24:42.740 an hour to solve a problem, I would spend the first 55 minutes figuring out what problem am I trying to

00:24:47.480 solve? Right, right.

00:24:48.860 And then so I think that strategy and thinking, to me, that's the hope piece. It's like, what am I

00:24:54.460 trying to create? What is that vision? And then being able to take the action and only knowing for

00:25:01.440 yourself, am I just leaning on vision a little too much to stay away from the action piece? Or is there

00:25:07.440 really a time to sit and think? And I believe that we'll make terrible decisions with that over time.

00:25:13.020 We'll have some wins. But if you pay attention, you'll know what works for you. And note what

00:25:17.260 works for other people. And if you've got some good boys around you, they'll probably be honest

00:25:20.900 with you too. So that's a good question. I mean, how do you find those people? Because you talk

00:25:25.640 about earlier when we were having this conversation, you talked about proximity, which I think you're

00:25:29.300 referring to being around people that are going to lift you up as opposed to pull you down.

00:25:33.020 How do you identify these people and start to develop that relationship or be around them? Just be

00:25:36.960 in the general vicinity of those people.

00:25:38.460 So for me, it's an exercise I do about every six months. And I call that the who's in 0.85

00:25:42.880 your front row. And I just think it's eight people. And so I look at an overall eight of my

00:25:47.440 entire life, who are the eight most important people. But then I break it down by category.

00:25:51.300 And I say, for my business, for my charity, for my family life, what are the eight people in each

00:25:56.980 of those categories? And I literally rank them from most to least important, if you will.

00:26:01.720 And then what I do is I schedule my life around those people and ask myself, what does it look

00:26:07.760 like to be connecting with that person at a level 10? And how am I going to... And by the way,

00:26:12.020 I remember very clearly years ago, Ryan, when I did this exercise, you know, I had been driving

00:26:17.160 down the road right after I did the exercise and I got a phone call from somebody that was on my top

00:26:22.420 eight list and then wasn't on my top eight list. And I had been very accustomed to taking the call

00:26:26.800 from this person. Just like, you know, I always take...

00:26:29.000 Just have it.

00:26:29.580 Have it.

00:26:30.520 As soon as that person called, I sent them to voicemail. And then I called another person that

00:26:35.820 was on my top eight list. So that's a practical way that I put it into play, where it was literally

00:26:40.540 about learning to send to voicemail and then to make the phone call to the people that I

00:26:45.440 feel are the most important people in my life. Now, it's not about a value of an individual.

00:26:50.260 I'm not determining the value of a human being. I'm talking about the desire of how much time do

00:26:54.920 I want to spend with each person and, you know, aligning values. Like, what are we chasing? I want

00:26:59.240 to build with friends. But I also know that if we're building towards the same thing, it makes it a lot

00:27:03.280 easier to hang out. When people are involved in our charity, I spend a lot more time with them.

00:27:07.900 And the truth is, the charity is that important to me that if somebody doesn't really align with

00:27:11.920 the charity, there's probably not a good chance that I'm going to be spending a lot of time with

00:27:15.320 them.

00:27:15.980 Yeah. I mean, there's just not enough time in the day to save everybody.

00:27:18.620 Yeah, that's it.

00:27:19.140 I get that. No, that's a great point. I mean, you bring up a valid point. It's not about

00:27:23.200 the individual's worth. They certainly have worth. It's just about, is this going to be someone who's

00:27:28.220 going to help me get to where I want to go? And can I help them to where they would like to go?

00:27:31.700 No question. Yeah.

00:27:32.560 Yeah. And Ryan, let me make one more quick comment on that, which I think that I really

00:27:36.920 want to give a quality answer to what you ask because it's a quality question. And I think

00:27:41.960 that if guys are listening and they're looking for a word, the word that I was getting at was

00:27:45.820 values, right? What are your values and what are their values and how do values align? It's like a

00:27:51.220 good marriage. It's a good partnership. It's a good friendship. And when we're trying to pick our

00:27:55.720 people that we're going to go to battle with, we want people that align in some ways with values or

00:28:00.420 that, by the way, I totally get this too. They have a strength or a superpower that may be very

00:28:07.660 different than ours, right? And so it's not that we're alike in all ways, but oftentimes our values

00:28:13.800 are aligned, you know?

00:28:15.780 Right. So the way we go about getting to that might be a little different, even though we're

00:28:19.480 all going to the same place. Yeah.

00:28:21.440 Yeah. It makes sense. What are some of your values?

00:28:23.240 You know, I value, the first thing I would say is that I value family. You know, people often ask what I

00:28:27.800 do and I say, I'm a dad, I'm a husband. And when I'm not doing that, I'm a speaker and I run the

00:28:33.240 charity. But I think that my highest priority, my highest value is my family. When I get to the end

00:28:39.420 of my life, that's the thing that I'm going to be most proud of is how I showed up in that space.

00:28:45.160 I value relationships and friends. I feel like for me, Ryan, one of the greatest compliments somebody

00:28:50.980 could give me in my life is that I'm a great friend. You know, that I'm somebody that shows up for

00:28:54.860 people that I under promise and over deliver. I'm somebody that brings out the best in people,

00:28:59.540 you know, that I'm not a jerk. You know, those are things that ultimately at the end of my life,

00:29:03.400 I know, by the way, that does it. I don't want to be that. I don't want to be. I don't want that

00:29:06.940 to be confused with whether or not I want to be liked by everybody because I did want to be liked

00:29:11.060 by everybody at some point. And now I hope people like me. I mean, who wants to be hated? I don't

00:29:16.160 want to be hated. Right. But the reality is that I know if I show up big in the world, people are

00:29:20.120 going to dislike me. I mean, I remember one of my wife's friends was like, I don't like John because he's

00:29:24.300 too nice. I don't trust. I'm like, yeah, so you're going to be less nice, right? I can't win. You

00:29:29.020 know, like I'm just going to be me. Yeah. I had a mentor of mine tell me you could be reading from

00:29:33.300 the Bible and people will still find a way to hate you. Right, dude. You know what I mean? So if

00:29:37.680 you're if you're crushing it, people are going to be like, you know, they're going to find a reason

00:29:41.160 to hate you. And if you're not crushing it, you're too lazy. And I mean, it's just, you know.

00:29:45.400 So I want to go back to the first value. You said family. And I believe that about you. I know

00:29:49.720 you a little bit more so than maybe some of the guys listening. So I believe that about you. But if I asked

00:29:53.880 10 guys, 10 of them would say family and nine of them would be proving otherwise, meaning that they

00:30:00.520 may have said family is important, but they're not really showing that the family is important.

00:30:04.080 How do you make this connection? Because so many guys are like, oh, I'm consumed. I'm busy. I got

00:30:07.880 this and I got this and I got to do this. And I can't like I really want to be with my kids. I

00:30:11.780 really want to connect with my wife, but I can't. Tell me a little bit about how you're doing that.

00:30:14.600 I think we pay lip service to a lot of things. And by the way, I tell you 100 percent like I've

00:30:19.780 ever been times in my life when I'm like, I am not living up to this value that I proclaim to the

00:30:25.300 world that family is important. Like my actions are not representing that. I always think, you know,

00:30:29.540 if you want to know what somebody values, just look at their calendar, you know, and that'll show you.

00:30:34.440 And I've had I've had some real wins with that where I thought that I was if anybody looked at

00:30:38.640 my calendar, I'd be very proud of that. And I've also had some times when I didn't. The most important

00:30:43.060 people that this will matter to is your family. So just ask yourself, like if your family was asked in

00:30:47.760 private, how are you showing up? What would their answer be? Really check in with that.

00:30:52.080 But for the world, you know, for me, I think that the way guys know they see it for me is like when

00:30:57.980 I give you an example, when we launched our dad's retreat this year, people were like that totally

00:31:03.160 aligns, John, that that for me says John Roman all over it. That's when I knew that I was actually

00:31:10.120 living out my value when guys would say that not like the response wasn't, oh, he's hosting a dad's

00:31:15.780 retreat. Hmm. How on earth is that happening? Right. That's weird. Yeah. There's a disconnect

00:31:21.120 there or something like that. Right. So that felt really good because I think that that's a way that

00:31:25.340 I was able to represent that. But I've got to tell you that it's really I'm not winning. I told these

00:31:31.020 guys when we started this dad's retreat, I don't feel like I'm totally winning the dad game right now.

00:31:35.860 Partially why I want to have the dad's retreat is because I want to be an attendee. Like I'm not the dad

00:31:40.420 expert. I'm not. I don't have guys come to learn from me, bring in some of the dad experts in.

00:31:44.760 But I think that every guy in that room has something genius to share. And I think that

00:31:48.760 it's also good to be able to learn from guys about like, hey, where did you really fail and

00:31:53.200 how did you bounce back from that? Because I think that's a killer part of it, too, is like,

00:31:57.140 you know, because you're going to fail big time as a dad. I think some of the best dad advice I ever

00:32:00.620 got was somebody who's like, you will mess up your kids. The question is, yeah, what do you in what

00:32:06.320 way? Right. Like, I mean, no matter what you do, you're going to either be too nice or too hard or

00:32:10.920 like some way, shape or form, you're going to mess them up because it's just you cannot be perfect.

00:32:14.760 In that. Yes. I define being a great dad as flexible and engaged. You know, like if I'm

00:32:19.240 there, if I show up, that's big. That's when I think I'm winning. And the second thing is,

00:32:24.240 if I'm flexible, meaning that like I've got to know that I can stand like a rock with certain

00:32:27.900 values. But I also know that I have to constantly be open to learning. I got to be able to admit I

00:32:32.980 was wrong. I did something. Yeah. Like that's I think that's one of the things really hard for guys,

00:32:37.420 Ryan, is that it's like, how do you be totally confident and be like, yes, because certainty is

00:32:42.260 power, right? Certainty is powerful. But at the same time, be like, and I'm open to learning.

00:32:47.520 And sure, like that's difficult to earn that respect as a leader to say, I make decisions and

00:32:53.100 I'm certain and I go with them. And I think decision making is powerful. But at the same time,

00:32:57.300 I'm open to being wrong. I'm open to changing my mind. I'm a work in progress, brother.

00:33:03.660 No, I love that. That makes just a ton of sense. You know, what's interesting about this idea of

00:33:07.900 of self-reflection and self-awareness and just being aware of what you're good at and what

00:33:11.560 you're not. And for me, if I fail in that, I always have a wife who's willing to call me on that

00:33:15.860 because she'll say to me, Ryan, you're teaching men how to be better men or you're talking about

00:33:19.740 being a dad, yet you aren't really being a great dad at this point. So I think having somebody who's

00:33:24.720 going to hold your feet to the fire helps as well.

00:33:26.400 It's so true. My OK, first of all, my wife is from Siberia. She's born and raised in Russia,

00:33:31.220 moved here when she was 18. And, you know, culturally, I'll tell you, she will tell you like it is.

00:33:35.860 And a lot of times, you know, something's happening in the home behind closed doors and

00:33:40.520 she'll be like, hey, if all those podcast listeners, if all those people were listening

00:33:43.880 to you now, what do you think they would think? Would they be blown away? Would they be really

00:33:47.260 impressed? I know this conversation, man. Oh, dude, it's so great, you know. But the truth

00:33:51.380 is that at the time, you know, I might even get a little defensive about it. But when the dust settles

00:33:55.980 and my friend Paul Martino says, he's a relationship coach, he always says, when the bell stops ringing,

00:34:01.760 you know, when the bell stops ringing and I calm down, I got to admit she's right.

00:34:05.800 There's a lot of things she's she's right about. And that to me, having somebody to call you out,

00:34:09.940 man. So, so key. Hey, on that note, I got to tell you, this is something good for the guys to do

00:34:14.760 with speaking of like your brotherhood, you know, your friends that are around you that are real

00:34:18.620 good buddies, people that are really going to call you out. One of my best buddies every year,

00:34:23.300 we have a tradition where we sit down and say three things that, you know, three things you love

00:34:27.000 about me, three things that nobody wants to tell me that you would want. Interesting. I like that.

00:34:32.240 And it's great, man, because some of our best commentary or best, best conversation have been

00:34:37.960 from those comments of like, here's what nobody wants to tell you. And it's like, shit, that was 0.99

00:34:41.980 really great, man. Thanks. 0.99

00:34:43.300 I like that. I like that. Okay. So I want to move topics here really quick. I want to go back to

00:34:47.660 the front row analogy that you're using for living life large and those types of things.

00:34:52.220 I understand that you're looking at the people who are in the front row and they're living different,

00:34:56.320 they're engaged, they're active, they're, they're where the action is. I'm wondering about

00:34:59.800 the performer is where's the performer in this analogy. Is that somebody that we want to strive

00:35:05.040 to be that performer? Tell me how that fits into the analogy of the front row. Yeah. No,

00:35:08.740 if I, if what, if what I hear is that this is something that I think people will hear,

00:35:13.360 they'll hear from this front row analogy. Like, I don't want to be a spectator of life. Even is that,

00:35:17.860 is that right? It's like, I want to be on stage. I want to be on stage, man. I want to be on the

00:35:21.060 field. People like, don't be on the sidelines in life. Like be in the game. I totally get the

00:35:25.680 analogy. And I think at times it's totally appropriate. This is a, this is an analogy of

00:35:30.860 being close to the thing that you want to be close to. This isn't about whether or not you're

00:35:34.520 a spectator or a participant per se on the field. This is about whether or not you're a spectator or

00:35:40.560 participant in general in life. Cause you can be at a concert and be a total spectator. You could be in

00:35:45.620 the back, checked out. You could also be in the front part of the show. Now I will tell you, people

00:35:50.500 are like, well, if you're in the front row, you're a, you're still a spectator. And I'm like,

00:35:53.660 well, that's BS. Ask any band because when you're a, when you're the band, how important is the

00:35:58.420 front row? When you're a, when you're an athlete, how important is the front row? So sometimes we're

00:36:03.260 on stage, sometimes we're in the stands, but we need to learn how to cheer for people. We need to

00:36:07.620 learn how to show up and participate. See, that's the, exactly the problem is some people think that

00:36:11.320 just because they're in that seat that they can't make a difference. They're not part of the thing,

00:36:15.480 but they are, they're totally part of it. That's a limiting belief. When we start thinking about

00:36:20.080 life in that way, too many people think they're in a spot right now in life where they're just a

00:36:25.080 spectator. They think they're in a seat that says they have to watch, but they're not. They can be

00:36:30.380 a total participant in that moment. And there's no question that, you know, uh, you, you're going to

00:36:35.500 be in both places in life, performer and, and, uh, you know, in the seat, but both people could be

00:36:41.080 fully engaged. Right, right. Well, John, we're winding down on time a little bit. I want to ask you a

00:36:45.380 couple additional questions. The first one I want to ask you, and you're the perfect man to ask

00:36:49.220 about this is what does it mean to be a man? Oh, for me, what it means is, uh, is about stepping

00:36:54.460 up. You know, I think about being in the front row is like a man is a man is somebody that steps

00:36:59.320 up. When I felt the most manly in my life, when I felt like I was providing for my family,

00:37:04.520 when I was impressing my wife, when I was, uh, inspiring my children or the moments when I've

00:37:09.320 stepped up, when I've stepped up with certainty, when I knew who I was, um, and I acted in that space

00:37:15.580 of courage. You know, I, for me, that's being a man it's acting with courage and it's taking risks

00:37:21.880 and it's going out there and really putting your best foot forward. I love it, brother. And I'm in

00:37:25.680 total agreement with that. I want to ask you how we can connect with you, but I also want to know

00:37:30.180 maybe a little bit more about the retreat. I think you're sold out. So maybe there's a future one

00:37:34.120 coming up and then we didn't talk about the book at all. I know you also have a book that's coming

00:37:38.760 out. So fill us in a little bit about your work and then how we can connect with you.

00:37:41.960 Yeah. So everybody can, uh, we can connect at front row factor.com. All the stuff is there,

00:37:46.420 the charity, the retreat stuff, everything will be there, including the book. The book's launching

00:37:50.900 in, uh, February 6th, uh, of this coming year, uh, which is by the way, the 11th year anniversary

00:37:57.180 of the front row foundation. That was the very first night we sent somebody to a front row event.

00:38:01.220 So a very special day for us. Yeah. Totally pumped about the book and you know, we'll, we'll share

00:38:06.320 stories of our recipients and all the strategies for living our front row life. The dad's retreat is sold

00:38:10.920 out this year. Uh, but we are going to host another one next year as well. We've already started the

00:38:15.800 waiting list on that. We'd love for you guys to check it out. That's also at front row factor.com.

00:38:20.160 So I'm pumped, man. We're just trying to make a difference in the world. We're trying to do our

00:38:23.560 thing. And I, Hey, I want to take a quick second. Cause I don't know if I'm going to run out of time,

00:38:27.260 Ryan, but I want to share with you, dude, I'm so grateful for have been, you know, for, for having a

00:38:32.560 front row seat to your life right now, because what you're doing is absolutely essential. I know you're

00:38:38.400 inspiring a lot of people and you're inspiring me brother. So thank you. Well, I feel the same.

00:38:42.600 I really do. I appreciate you. I followed you for some time now. I know we've tried to make this

00:38:45.980 interview work for probably a year. It seems like we've been trying to make this work and I'm glad

00:38:49.520 we're connected in the way that we are. And I'm excited to see what you have in store too.

00:38:52.900 Thanks man. Appreciate the support. So John, what we'll do is we'll make sure we link all of that

00:38:56.680 up to the show notes. That way the guys, anybody that's listening right now can, uh, can get access to

00:39:00.820 that stuff. Guys, go check out John's work. You will be impressed. And I promise you'll start maybe

00:39:04.520 sitting in the front row and participating in life a little bit more. John, thanks for being on the show, man.

00:39:07.760 Thanks Ryan. There you have it, man. Mr. John Roman teaching us a bit about what it takes to live

00:39:13.040 life on the front row. So make sure you go visit him over his website at frontrowfactor.com.

00:39:17.700 So you can check out all the good he's doing in the world and get inspired to do some of the good

00:39:20.840 yourself. Now, also I did not mention it earlier, but if you're sitting on the fence about our elite

00:39:24.620 mastermind, which I'm sure you've heard of by now, this is the time to do it. Most men in my

00:39:29.000 experience taper off towards the end of the year, but the men inside of our elite mastermind,

00:39:32.860 the iron council, they're actually ramping up for a killer 2017. We released a new program

00:39:38.880 called the 12 week battle plan a couple of months ago. And the men who are actually implementing this

00:39:43.220 in their lives are seeing huge, huge results in their businesses, their families, their wealth,

00:39:48.380 their health, just about any other metric that you can measure progress in your life.

00:39:51.260 So join us right now, start doing something about taking your life to the next level. You can visit us

00:39:56.200 at orderofman.com slash iron council, and hopefully we'll see you inside guys. I look forward to

00:40:01.000 talking with you on Friday for our Friday field notes, but until then take action and become the

00:40:04.780 man you were meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take

00:40:09.940 charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order

00:40:14.580 at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - October 25, 2016

OoM 084： Living Life on the Front Row with Jon Vroman

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