Order of Man

00:00:00.000 Optics are crucial and here's why, every day when you get out of bed, you put on a shirt.

00:00:06.540 Maybe you think it looks good, maybe it portrays what you want it to portray, maybe it makes

00:00:11.640 you feel a certain way and it motivates you because you look nice in that shirt and you

00:00:15.980 do your hair a certain way because optics matter and the way that we present ourselves

00:00:21.320 matter.

00:00:22.320 So what if instead of saying optics is at odds with execution, optics is an element

00:00:26.960 of execution?

00:00:30.000 You're a man of action, you live life to the fullest, embrace your fears and boldly chart

00:00:34.960 your own path.

00:00:35.960 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time, you are not easily

00:00:41.120 deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong.

00:00:45.640 This is your life, this is who you are, this is who you will become at the end of the day

00:00:50.920 and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:54.920 Kip, good to see you, man.

00:00:59.000 We had a little bit of a technical difficulty there, but I think, I think we got it for

00:01:02.800 the most part.

00:01:03.440 I don't know.

00:01:05.140 It's one of those.

00:01:06.240 Technology is crazy.

00:01:07.200 Yeah.

00:01:07.560 One of those technology things where you just do some stuff, none of it logically makes sense

00:01:12.060 and it maybe just kind of seems to help.

00:01:14.500 Well, the thing I don't understand about technology is you could, I could wake up, like I could

00:01:19.540 leave my, my setup exactly the way it is and do a podcast at night and I could come back

00:01:26.080 in the morning to do a podcast and all of a sudden it's not working.

00:01:30.460 It's like how, like nobody touched anything.

00:01:33.320 I didn't touch anything and it's still not working.

00:01:35.440 But anyways, regardless, here we are.

00:01:37.740 We got it to work.

00:01:38.700 I think for the most part.

00:01:40.160 Yeah, absolutely.

00:01:41.320 How was your weekend, sir?

00:01:43.100 It was good.

00:01:44.200 Soccer game for my daughter.

00:01:47.020 Other than that, just kind of hanging out and taking it easy.

00:01:50.100 I was, I was actually on the couch yesterday taking a nap and my kids come in.

00:01:57.120 I can't remember who said it because it woke me out of my sleep and said, Eli broke his

00:02:01.520 leg.

00:02:01.820 It's dangling.

00:02:02.680 His foot is dangling.

00:02:05.440 And I'm like, what?

00:02:06.860 Yeah.

00:02:07.260 He broke his foot playing basketball.

00:02:08.840 It's hanging.

00:02:09.660 I'm like, oh my gosh.

00:02:11.160 So I go out there and the first people that I see are my daughter and she's such a sweetheart,

00:02:15.460 but, and she's very, very emotionally charged. 0.68

00:02:19.000 And, uh, her and my neighbor, who's a sweet woman are like embraced in this hug.

00:02:24.480 And they're both like teary eyed.

00:02:26.020 I'm like, oh no, this is going to be bad.

00:02:28.980 And I go over there and, and my son is laying flat on the ground, face down on the concrete.

00:02:34.660 And he's got his foot kind of draped over his other one.

00:02:37.700 And it looked loose for sure.

00:02:40.080 But dangling hanging is a bit of a stretch.

00:02:45.260 I'm like, okay.

00:02:46.500 So I walk up to him.

00:02:47.640 I'm like, Hey, how do you tell me what you're feeling?

00:02:49.640 Tell me what's going on.

00:02:51.180 He's not teary eyed.

00:02:52.340 He's like, I think I broke it.

00:02:54.220 I'm like, can you move it?

00:02:55.020 He's like, no, but he wasn't wincing.

00:02:57.360 He was still talking.

00:02:58.380 I'm like, okay, he didn't, he didn't break his leg or his foot.

00:03:02.620 He's, he just sprained it.

00:03:03.980 I'm sure.

00:03:05.060 And so the next thing I hear is my daughter say, I just called mom.

00:03:11.360 She's meeting you at the hospital.

00:03:12.980 Oh boy.

00:03:13.740 I'm like, oh my gosh.

00:03:16.500 I was like, Viv, like, don't.

00:03:19.000 And so I get Eli loaded up in the truck and we, we drive to the Instacare because that's

00:03:27.620 more appropriate.

00:03:28.700 Yeah.

00:03:29.820 And I get to the Instacare and, and, uh, my daughter said, the mom says the Instacare is

00:03:36.500 not open on Sunday.

00:03:37.280 I'm like, can you just not for a minute and just let me handle this?

00:03:40.980 Like, let me deal with this.

00:03:43.000 So I get to the Instacare and it was open.

00:03:45.360 And I said to my son, Hey, stay here.

00:03:47.780 Uh, I'm going to go just check to make sure.

00:03:51.740 And then I get flagged down by my ex-wife who's at the hospital that happens to be the 1.00

00:03:57.460 entrance is, I don't know, 150 yards that way.

00:04:01.380 And she's like, Ryan, Ryan, bring them over here.

00:04:04.520 I'm like, no, we're at the Instacare.

00:04:06.760 She's like, no, they're just going to send them here anyways. 0.99

00:04:08.360 Just bring them here.

00:04:10.880 So I drive over to the emergency room and I look over there and she's there.

00:04:14.400 And then they've got a nurse with a wheelchair. 0.99

00:04:18.040 I'm like, he just sprained his ankle.

00:04:20.840 So I get out, I park, I go around, I open the door, he steps out and his mom looks at

00:04:27.380 it and she's like, it's not exactly hanging.

00:04:34.200 That's funny.

00:04:35.360 I know.

00:04:35.920 So we went in there and sure enough, he has a sprained ankle, but that was our day yesterday.

00:04:40.680 That consumed a lot of our time and energy.

00:04:44.640 That is really funny, actually.

00:04:47.120 Oh my gosh.

00:04:48.100 Just, just people need to calm down and just like, I got it.

00:04:51.260 It's fine.

00:04:51.780 We can take care of it, you know, but everybody wants to be involved and yeah.

00:04:56.620 I mean, I knew what had happened.

00:04:58.040 As soon as I walked out and saw it, I'm like, oh, he sprained his ankle.

00:05:00.380 It might hurt, but it's fine.

00:05:02.980 So that's where we're at.

00:05:04.300 That's funny.

00:05:05.460 You know, I've, I've been on the, on this, on both sides of that issue where kids like

00:05:13.280 broken leg, it's fine.

00:05:14.800 It was only a spring, not a big deal.

00:05:16.680 I've also been in this scenario where my daughter's like hurt her arm and I'm like, you're fine.

00:05:22.620 And then like two days later, it still hurts.

00:05:25.440 I'm like, hmm, we take an inch broken.

00:05:28.120 I was like, okay.

00:05:29.260 I think you told me that.

00:05:30.680 I'm like, my bad.

00:05:33.140 But it also depends on your child because every child has, every human has a different tolerance

00:05:39.760 to pain.

00:05:40.660 So if the tough one is telling you it hurts, okay, there might be something to it.

00:05:46.360 If the weak one is, nah, not too concerned about it.

00:05:50.860 Oh, it's funny.

00:05:52.400 It's funny.

00:05:54.180 But that's it.

00:05:55.160 So, well, should we get into some questions today?

00:05:56.780 It seems like we've got a theme today.

00:05:58.480 It's kind of weird, but it is what it is.

00:06:00.840 So let's get out of it.

00:06:01.760 It's weird and maybe a little sad, actually. 0.98

00:06:04.560 I was reading these questions and I was like, man, this sucks.

00:06:08.500 But yeah, let's, let's hop into these.

00:06:10.920 So we're going to field questions from the, from the Iron Council.

00:06:14.100 That's our exclusive brotherhood.

00:06:16.220 Close for enrollment, but we'll open for enrollment June 15th for Q3.

00:06:23.020 Chris Henningsen, what were some things that you did right after being told you were getting

00:06:29.000 a divorce?

00:06:30.200 I just got a text from my wife last night after three months of no contact and she is

00:06:35.180 filing this week.

00:06:36.280 Yeah.

00:06:36.520 And this is, and this is the theme, you know, is, is there's a lot of divorce questions

00:06:42.940 today.

00:06:43.620 So it's unfortunate that, that men are going through this.

00:06:47.080 I've gone through this, Kip, you have as well.

00:06:48.640 And millions of other people who listen have gone through this also.

00:06:52.560 You know, I think the first thing that it was a bit of a blur and I'm sure it is for

00:06:57.740 you too, that I don't know that I could pinpoint and tell you exactly what I did or had some

00:07:03.380 systematic process because it was so emotionally heavy at that point that I think the best thing

00:07:10.520 you can do is just to take a breath, uh, to not self-destruct, to find hobbies that you're

00:07:19.580 interested in and almost in a way, force yourself to do it, to eat properly, to go to the gym and

00:07:25.040 also to get yourself around other people.

00:07:27.680 Now you may not feel like you want to be around other people.

00:07:31.180 I can certainly relate with that, but you can't isolate because when you isolate, you start

00:07:36.420 thinking and pondering and brainstorming and you're, it's just become so overwhelming just to be

00:07:45.700 constantly with your thoughts as you're dealing with something difficult like that.

00:07:49.660 Uh, and then isolation leads to temptation.

00:07:53.240 And so we start making bad choices if we're isolated that way.

00:07:56.660 So what I would suggest is what I just did.

00:07:59.420 Take your breath.

00:08:00.880 Maybe you want to document some of the ways you're feeling.

00:08:03.360 Sometimes that's helpful to be able to write it out.

00:08:06.200 Uh, maybe call a few friends.

00:08:07.860 I remember Kip, I called you when I was hit with that news, uh, several years ago.

00:08:13.140 Uh, and, and a couple other people, Jay Jardulo is another one I called and a few others.

00:08:17.380 Um, but yeah, just get on the phone, make some calls in the iron council, get on the,

00:08:22.220 and the horn with your battle team and your, your battle brothers, uh, and, and just talk

00:08:26.720 about the issues.

00:08:27.420 Cause sometimes, and if you have a therapist, make, make a, make a call right now to go talk

00:08:33.000 with them, not to save the marriage or anything like that.

00:08:34.820 I'm not suggesting that at this point, but just so you can talk to that individual and

00:08:39.060 start working through some of the, some of the emotional baggage and weight that you're

00:08:42.980 inevitably going to deal with for a little while moving forward.

00:08:45.460 Chris, you're going to be tempted to be highly reactionary.

00:08:52.920 I'm going to do this and this will, and, and it will be rooted in trying to manipulate her,

00:08:59.780 change the outcome, prove a point.

00:09:03.440 And, or she's going to do things and then you're going to want to react and vice versa.

00:09:07.340 I would get really clear on what's within your realm of control and what's outside your realm

00:09:13.600 of control and that realm of control.

00:09:17.400 What are, what kind of man are you going to show up as in despite the circumstance?

00:09:23.620 What's the right thing to do?

00:09:26.060 How do you show up?

00:09:27.240 How do you communicate?

00:09:28.180 And you stick to that.

00:09:29.280 Don't get sucked in to her emotional reactions to things and trying to prove a point or argue

00:09:38.060 or just let it go and really get centered on how you notice how you need to show up in

00:09:45.480 spite of how she might react or, or what emotions may occur.

00:09:52.080 Right.

00:09:53.360 And his situation, I think it's a little different because.

00:09:56.720 Yeah.

00:09:56.900 On his question, he said, three months, they haven't even been in contact.

00:10:00.840 So there might be some of that grieving process that's taken place and not to the fullest extent

00:10:07.340 by any means, but it also might be that she's going to be less emotionally reactive, just

00:10:12.320 like you might be less emotionally reactive too, which is a good thing in the grand scheme

00:10:16.820 of things.

00:10:18.060 So, yeah.

00:10:18.680 Good point.

00:10:19.800 Dalton Harward.

00:10:20.720 Do you have any tips for reconnecting with your spouse when you don't share many common

00:10:26.320 interests?

00:10:27.400 I'm aware that couples need diversity, but it seems like things we enjoy are quite far

00:10:32.080 apart.

00:10:33.080 She winds down on Xbox and likes staying up late and sleeping in. 0.60

00:10:36.880 I prefer physical activity and I have a fairly regiment evening and morning routine.

00:10:42.760 I don't intend to dog on how she spends her time.

00:10:46.600 I'm just looking for some tips on what I can do or should give some slack on to meet her

00:10:52.620 in the middle.

00:10:54.680 Yeah.

00:10:55.120 I think you just answered the question in two different ways.

00:10:57.860 Number one, you have to have your own activities and hobbies.

00:10:59.960 And it sounds like you both do, you know, she's playing video games and which is kind of

00:11:04.480 interesting.

00:11:05.280 Like that's not usually the case.

00:11:07.820 It's usually the other way around, but that's kind of interesting.

00:11:10.040 I think the next generation behind us, the girls play video games a lot. 1.00

00:11:14.580 Really?

00:11:14.940 That's rare for us.

00:11:15.800 Yeah.

00:11:16.520 My sons, my sons that are like dating girls, their girlfriends play video games.

00:11:21.820 They play video games?

00:11:22.840 Yeah.

00:11:23.160 Like, like we used to do.

00:11:25.080 It's weird.

00:11:25.920 That's weird.

00:11:26.560 Like that is just everyone's listening.

00:11:28.300 You young people, our generation, almost no girls ever played video games.

00:11:34.200 It was only guys who would play.

00:11:37.020 So it was very much of a guy thing, but I think it's changed quite a bit, but okay.

00:11:41.960 Yeah.

00:11:42.280 Fair enough.

00:11:42.760 I mean, it's fine.

00:11:43.620 I actually don't really have a real big problem with video games unless it gets out of control

00:11:49.340 or using it to escape from life.

00:11:52.840 You know, then I see it obviously becoming an issue.

00:11:55.180 Same as watching football.

00:11:56.600 You know, I don't see any problem with having a team and watching football unless it consumes

00:12:01.740 your entire weekend and your mood is dependent on who gets drafted to where and, and what

00:12:07.060 team is winning or losing.

00:12:08.200 And that's, that's a problem.

00:12:10.400 So anyways, it sounds like you both have your own thing, which is good.

00:12:13.400 What I would, what I think I would do is I would talk to her and say exactly what you

00:12:18.460 just said.

00:12:19.500 Hey hon, I want to find middle ground.

00:12:21.340 I want to be involved in our lives.

00:12:23.300 I'm glad that you have things that you like.

00:12:25.520 I have things that I like and believe it or not, I actually want to keep some of these

00:12:29.780 things for just me, but I also want to connect with you.

00:12:33.760 What do you, how can we do that?

00:12:35.360 And you know what?

00:12:36.220 Maybe it's playing video games with her for an hour every Wednesday night or something.

00:12:40.560 And in exchange, she's like, cool, that's, that's awesome.

00:12:43.580 Like he's making an effort and you tell her, Hey, I would like to go on a walk in the evening

00:12:48.780 on Tuesday and Thursday evening.

00:12:50.800 And I think if you guys are both respectable to each other and respectful, it sounds like

00:12:55.000 you are, cause you're bringing this conversation up that both of you wouldn't have any problem

00:12:59.200 engaging in something the other person is engaged in.

00:13:03.480 And it doesn't seem like it would take very much effort at all to do that.

00:13:07.200 And I think what you might find is that a willingness to go to her might open up a desire for her

00:13:15.460 to come to you because she knows, Oh, he, I, I care.

00:13:18.840 Like he, he cares about what I'm doing.

00:13:20.560 I matter to him.

00:13:21.560 And that's a really valuable thing.

00:13:23.800 Yeah.

00:13:24.340 Ryan, would you give Dalton any advice on, I mean, I just, when I first read the beginning

00:13:29.680 of his question, right, any tips for reconnecting, I immediately went to something deeper than

00:13:37.180 sharing hobbies.

00:13:39.340 Sure.

00:13:39.880 Right.

00:13:40.180 And so, I don't know, like part of me, Dalton wants to say, um, just make sure that there's

00:13:45.980 nothing else there.

00:13:46.620 I don't, I don't want to suggest and open up a can of worms for you, but, but why do you

00:13:52.380 feel there's a disconnect?

00:13:54.520 What is it?

00:13:55.320 Is it just hobbies or is there other things that should be addressed or conversations need

00:14:03.000 to be had around other things?

00:14:05.260 And you're assuming that the hobby or spending time together is the solution.

00:14:09.960 One reality, it might be a conversation around the thing where there, there might be an upset.

00:14:15.500 Right.

00:14:16.340 And I think that's also dependent on how open and communicative you guys are currently,

00:14:20.780 because if you're not used to having deep conversations and you come in guns ablaze with

00:14:25.600 deep conversations, that's going to be, there's going to, you're going to be met with resistance

00:14:30.680 to that.

00:14:31.740 So if you're not used to having those conversations, I would suggest that you open that up lightly

00:14:37.640 and gradually with patience and consistency over time.

00:14:42.120 So it might be, Hey, I, I know we don't seem to be as connected with what's going on throughout

00:14:48.220 each other's day, but I would love to just maybe every day at the end of the day or after

00:14:52.280 dinner, if we could just get together and just talk about each other's day and you don't

00:14:56.380 come in there with an agenda, you just open the channels and see if that starts to lead

00:15:00.400 into deeper, more meaningful conversations.

00:15:02.580 I think that's a really good point, Kip, that you brought up, that it might be something

00:15:05.180 deeper than we're just not doing stuff together.

00:15:08.100 Yeah.

00:15:09.300 Justin Vaughn Zahn, how do you work on yourself after a breakup slash divorce?

00:15:15.200 What pillars would you use to rebuild yourself?

00:15:17.760 Uh, so the, okay.

00:15:20.360 So again, a divorce question, we've got like five of them today.

00:15:23.180 Yeah.

00:15:23.600 Uh, what pillars would I use?

00:15:25.460 Uh, mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual.

00:15:30.620 Those are the pillars I would focus on.

00:15:32.860 So physical, that's the easiest one.

00:15:35.540 I think it's, it's the most transactional.

00:15:38.320 It's the most tangible, um, get rid of any junk food.

00:15:42.540 Uh, if you're drinking or substance abuse, you know, start shutting that down because that's

00:15:47.240 really going to start messing with you, especially with your emotions.

00:15:50.580 Um, and it's only going to make the problems worse.

00:15:53.000 It's going to make you highly emotional.

00:15:54.500 You're going to respond or react in every situation.

00:15:57.860 Um, you're going to, you're going to be very upset.

00:16:00.460 So, but you're going to be tempted to do that to sedate yourself as well.

00:16:04.100 Um, but yeah, so I, I would do that.

00:16:06.060 Number one is, is get the physical side locked in and then just exercise.

00:16:11.520 Maybe it's running.

00:16:12.960 Maybe it's going to the gym.

00:16:14.020 Maybe it's jujitsu.

00:16:14.780 Maybe it's just going for a walk, you know, just clearing your head and going for a walk

00:16:17.840 every morning.

00:16:18.780 Yeah.

00:16:20.000 Um, emotional would be, excuse me, would be, um, being in touch with your, your, the way

00:16:27.940 you're feeling and being willing to sit in it.

00:16:30.040 So it's going to be reading books about how to, uh, develop emotional intelligence.

00:16:35.460 It's going to be journaling.

00:16:37.260 Um, maybe it is a therapist.

00:16:38.600 It might even just be talking with friends.

00:16:40.720 You know, I know when I talk with you and other people, Kip, um, and there might not

00:16:44.640 even be any solutions that necessarily come from some of those deeper conversations, but

00:16:48.940 I always feel lighter when I get done with a conversation like that.

00:16:52.800 And, uh, because I'm, I'm able to get some of the stuff off of my chest and that helps,

00:16:58.000 uh, intellectual pick a, pick an area that you want to focus on.

00:17:01.600 Maybe it's, you want to improve your finances.

00:17:03.700 Uh, and so buy a book or, or buy a course on finances.

00:17:09.040 Maybe there's a certain designation or degree that would help you secure a promotion at work.

00:17:14.560 Cool.

00:17:15.300 Buy that course or buy that book or read that program or go to that conference or sign up

00:17:19.920 for those emails, but just pick a lane in the intellectual realm and build something

00:17:24.880 and make sure it's, you know, useful to you.

00:17:27.300 And then the last one is the spiritual realm.

00:17:29.720 So if you're a God-fearing man, then it would be making sure you're going to church.

00:17:34.340 It would be praying and be cracking open the scriptures and, uh, really having conversations

00:17:39.140 with him.

00:17:39.720 If, if you're not a God-fearing man, then I would suggest that there's still a way to

00:17:44.760 tap into the spiritual side of your purpose on this earth and, and, and what you're meant

00:17:51.160 to do and what is your purpose moving forward and, and ways that we're connected with different

00:17:55.780 people and connected with nature, like that's what I would do.

00:18:00.440 And that's what I have done.

00:18:01.920 And it's the hardest part of it is that you don't want to do it.

00:18:06.940 If you're anything like me, what you want to do is just sit there and wallow around in

00:18:10.660 your own self-pity.

00:18:11.780 And that's very tempting and sure do that to some degree, but make sure it's productive

00:18:17.880 and force yourself if you have to, to get involved in the things that I just told you,

00:18:22.160 those, those pillars we discussed.

00:18:23.860 Yeah.

00:18:25.000 Last Sunday, I, I had a, uh, lesson I taught and it was rooted in this idea of how do we

00:18:34.420 find happiness and peace in life?

00:18:38.100 And, and Justin, I, I see a correlation and, and I actually, you know, he was on the Friday

00:18:42.880 call and we kind of talked about this a little bit.

00:18:44.980 He shared a little bit of his breakup, I believe on the Friday call.

00:18:48.440 Um, but someone that's happy in that piece, they have a healthy relationship with their

00:18:54.060 past.

00:18:55.260 And so what does that look like?

00:18:56.920 How do I have a healthy relationship with a breakup and a divorce?

00:19:01.180 You have a healthy relationship by learning from it.

00:19:03.920 That's how you become a better version of yourself because of it.

00:19:09.580 And, and as long as you learn and grow from it, then it almost resolves the unhealthiness of

00:19:16.160 it or the, the upset around it, because now you're somewhat grateful that it occurred.

00:19:20.820 It wasn't wasted and, and you're a better version of yourself.

00:19:25.080 The second element is you have hope for the future that you know, that tomorrow brings

00:19:32.820 something good.

00:19:34.660 And then the last is humility and gratitude for the present.

00:19:38.980 And so I would focus in those three areas after an upset, a breakup or divorces, what

00:19:46.580 do I learn and grow from?

00:19:48.580 What does the future hold for me?

00:19:50.640 And part of that is hope for the future is I learned the mistake of the past, right?

00:19:55.400 So I'm not going to make the same mistake again.

00:19:57.180 I'm going to become a, a better version of myself.

00:19:59.600 I'm going to get in shape physically.

00:20:01.920 I'm going to grow mentally.

00:20:03.300 I'm going to get my spiritual stuff.

00:20:04.940 That gives you hope for what tomorrow brings.

00:20:08.800 And then most importantly, there is plenty of things to be grateful for right now and

00:20:15.680 realize of the blessings that you have, the health that you do have, despite the fact that

00:20:21.020 you just had a breakup, fight, find the silver lining and be grateful for what you have in

00:20:26.420 the moment as well.

00:20:27.900 Yeah, I think that's good, man.

00:20:30.080 That's well said.

00:20:30.880 That's going to serve a lot of people because again, a lot of the questions we're getting,

00:20:34.000 and by the way, guys, we've got a course that's going to be coming up in June as well called

00:20:38.700 divorce, not death.

00:20:40.460 And I I've seen a lot of stuff out there and, and most of it is centered around getting your

00:20:45.320 ex back.

00:20:46.700 That's most of what you'll see.

00:20:47.940 How do I, how do I win her back?

00:20:49.340 And I think there's a lot of really good information that you can learn about yourself if it's taught

00:20:54.420 and executed well, and it's not so heavily focused on her, but this course and program that

00:20:59.660 we're putting together is not focused on winning her back.

00:21:02.020 It's focused on moving forward.

00:21:04.220 It's focused on improving your life, improving who you are.

00:21:06.960 How do you get over this?

00:21:08.260 The financial ramifications.

00:21:09.840 Now you have kids and co-parenting to deal with, and eventually you're probably going

00:21:13.680 to start dating again.

00:21:14.620 And how do you do that?

00:21:15.680 And so it's really, it's, it's closing the chapter to, to the, or closing the page to

00:21:22.060 that chapter rather than trying to keep it open and, you know, win her back through some

00:21:27.860 strategy that some person online tells you to.

00:21:30.540 So I think this will be really helpful.

00:21:33.420 Divorce, not death.com, June, middle of June, June 15th.

00:21:37.920 Middle of June.

00:21:38.800 Yeah.

00:21:39.100 Middle of June.

00:21:39.920 Yeah.

00:21:40.240 Excellent.

00:21:40.880 That'll be a good one.

00:21:41.480 All right.

00:21:42.200 We'll keep this, this train going here.

00:21:44.520 Okay.

00:21:46.000 Brad Letterman.

00:21:47.260 I'm just starting the divorce process now.

00:21:50.280 So any advice is welcomed.

00:21:54.240 I feel like we, I think we've hit, hit that pretty well.

00:21:57.640 I think we've given a lot of, don't you think, is there anything else that you would add?

00:22:01.160 We talked about the pillars.

00:22:02.560 We talked about learning from it, hope for the future, humiliating gratitude.

00:22:06.520 We talked about, Hey, I don't react.

00:22:10.880 Yeah.

00:22:11.060 I was going to go.

00:22:11.840 I was thinking more process, right?

00:22:14.380 So I, I expected you to dive into fight for your right.

00:22:18.960 Make sure that you, you know, get your time with your kids.

00:22:23.080 Don't be passive.

00:22:24.800 Yeah, for sure.

00:22:25.960 I mean, those are some of the logistical stuff.

00:22:28.500 Yeah.

00:22:28.940 Yeah.

00:22:29.100 And there are a lot of logistics to it.

00:22:30.620 You know, the first thing I would say is make sure that you're being as amicable, as amicable as possible, but not doing it at the expense of your rights.

00:22:38.280 So for example, a lot of guys will leave the house.

00:22:41.500 It's like, well, don't do that just yet.

00:22:44.340 You want to talk with an attorney first before you start making those decisions that could ultimately impact time with the kids or financial arrangements and all that sort of thing.

00:22:54.360 Yeah.

00:22:55.100 Also, what a lot of people will do is they'll start pulling money from accounts and doing great.

00:23:01.120 Out of state.

00:23:01.860 Yeah.

00:23:02.120 You got to, you got to be careful with relocations.

00:23:06.080 Yeah.

00:23:06.440 Right.

00:23:07.120 Right.

00:23:08.180 I would, if I were you too, I would make sure that I'm documenting everything.

00:23:12.240 You know, I'm documenting spending, hyper aware of what's being spent right now, because I don't know if this is true in every state.

00:23:19.360 And obviously I'm not an attorney, but from what I understand and gather is that if she starts spending money recklessly after there's some sort of, I can't remember the term, but some sort of, it's not proclamation, but some, some step in the legal process, she can't just go randomly just start spending all of your guys' money.

00:23:40.540 And if she does, then you have a right to, to that money back.

00:23:45.500 Yeah.

00:23:45.920 And so I would definitely say hire an attorney.

00:23:47.960 And that's one mistake that, that I made that I wish I would have hired an attorney.

00:23:54.380 And I didn't because we were pretty amicable, but things have a way of changing.

00:23:59.680 Um, and there's things that you just aren't aware of in the divorce process.

00:24:04.100 So I advocate for picking up an attorney and you can still be amicable by amicable, by the way, if you both have attorneys, in fact, that would be ideal, but it's just a way to protect your rights.

00:24:16.480 It's a person who understands all the legal ramifications of what you're dealing with and is going to advocate on your behalf.

00:24:22.900 So you get maximum opportunity with the kids, maximum financial provisions, et cetera, et cetera.

00:24:29.560 And, and Dave Ramsey says this really well.

00:24:31.980 I heard him once say once a couple of decided to divorce, it is at that point, a business arrangement moving forward.

00:24:40.260 And you need to really, as best you can strip away the emotional baggage and toil that comes from losing somebody you've probably been with for a relatively long period of time.

00:24:53.320 And now it's a business arrangement.

00:24:55.500 And so you need to start looking at it like that.

00:24:57.480 But you can't do that by yourself because you do have so much baggage and connection and emotional connection to, to that person.

00:25:06.280 But an attorney can definitely help you with that.

00:25:08.440 So make sure you, you get that stuff taken care of.

00:25:11.740 Brad, and I don't know if you have kids or some of these guys asking these questions, have kids or not, but don't lose sight on why you're doing what you're doing.

00:25:20.860 Sometimes we have a tendency to get our ego involved here and it's about controls and not what's best for our children. 0.94

00:25:30.220 And so don't lose sight of that if, if children are involved in, and with that said, let me ask you that question, Ryan, how do you, from your perspective, don't let your ego jump into play and just, you know, try to lash out or persecute the shit out of her. 0.84

00:25:47.740 You know what I mean? 0.66

00:25:48.280 For making this decision and, and all that.

00:25:50.860 How do you keep your ego out of this from your, from your perspective?

00:25:54.340 In my, in my opinion, I mean, it is very, very easy.

00:25:57.300 And that's one of the questions that somebody asked you.

00:25:59.080 I think it's a few questions down, but in my opinion, that the ego is just going to get you in trouble and you need to start looking at this practically.

00:26:08.220 So yeah, you can exact revenge on her for whatever perceived grievance that you have.

00:26:13.560 And, and maybe it's legitimate and there are things that you should, and she might absolutely be doing that to you. 0.65

00:26:21.580 Right. 0.99

00:26:22.120 She might actually be doing that on purpose just to agitate you even, or to get a rise out of you or to get you to do something stupid. 0.99

00:26:28.240 And that's why you have to be careful. 0.95

00:26:30.760 I think I've seen things that people have written down in texts and it's like, why would you put that in a text?

00:26:36.920 Why would you say that in the first place, let alone actually have it in a text?

00:26:40.660 Like, you know, she's saving that as you should be saving your text threads.

00:26:45.740 Like, of course.

00:26:47.460 But what, what I would say is, is your ego going to help you have more time with the kids?

00:26:55.060 Is it going to help the kids develop better?

00:26:57.820 Is it going to help you be in a better financial situation?

00:27:02.040 Or are you, you know, shooting yourself in the foot because you're pissed and you might have a reason to be pissed.

00:27:11.220 That's the hard part is some of that grievance that you have is legitimate.

00:27:15.400 Of course it is.

00:27:16.700 And yet still as a grown man, you have to make a decision to say, okay, I can fight for my rights and I can hire counsel and I can do what I need to do.

00:27:27.520 And I can still be amicable and not let every little obnoxious annoyance or prod or poke from her be the thing that sets you off and ruins the relationship you have with the kids.

00:27:45.080 Runes that them and their own personal development, the children's personal development, and then messes with your chances for maximum financial provision and maximum custody time.

00:27:57.860 Yeah.

00:27:58.780 Yeah.

00:27:59.080 Thanks.

00:27:59.480 All right.

00:28:01.020 Mike on golfer tips and suggestions on how to apologize to your kids when you're wrong.

00:28:06.800 So I saw this question.

00:28:09.580 I think it's actually pretty easy.

00:28:12.080 I don't know why we tend to make this so hard.

00:28:14.840 This might be an ego thing.

00:28:15.980 Like I'm the dad.

00:28:16.580 I'm supposed to always know it.

00:28:18.300 But you could say that.

00:28:19.360 You could tell your child that.

00:28:20.940 Hey, look, I have a really hard time apologizing to you when I do something that warrants an apology because as your father, I feel like I always have to be in the position to know what to do and know what's right.

00:28:35.260 But I am also a human being just like you are and I make mistakes.

00:28:40.200 And it's important that when we make mistakes, we own them and say sorry where we can.

00:28:45.020 And so I want to say sorry for yelling at you last night.

00:28:50.360 I was frustrated with work.

00:28:52.680 That's not an excuse to take it out on you.

00:28:55.400 And whatever we were talking about, I wasn't actually mad at you.

00:29:00.180 I was lashing out at you and you did not deserve that.

00:29:02.680 And I'm sorry.

00:29:05.360 I think it's as straightforward as that.

00:29:07.120 I don't really need to think that you need to over explain or grovel or go buy your kid anything or that's manipulation.

00:29:16.160 You're trying to win them back over.

00:29:17.180 Just own it.

00:29:18.520 Tell them why it's important.

00:29:19.620 Teach them the lesson so they can learn it too and change your behavior.

00:29:24.100 Yeah.

00:29:24.580 And one tip, Mike, to get, I don't know, present to why you should, because your kid needs to see this modeled.

00:29:32.860 If you're never apologizing when you're in the wrong, they know you're in the wrong, by the way, and you don't apologize, what are you teaching them?

00:29:44.540 So that's the price of this.

00:29:47.300 Yeah.

00:29:47.480 This is the price of this.

00:29:48.460 They need to see this.

00:29:50.000 It's for their benefit.

00:29:51.880 So don't rob them of this and model the behavior that you want them to learn.

00:29:56.840 And that is when you make mistakes, you own it and you apologize and you clean it up.

00:30:02.940 And not only that, you're not perfect.

00:30:05.220 What a great lesson for your kids to finally learn.

00:30:07.560 I mean, we talked about this months ago, Ryan, around the time as boys, when you realize your dad is just a normal guy.

00:30:15.300 It was a good thing.

00:30:17.480 Right.

00:30:17.980 Don't rob that from your children.

00:30:19.480 So I would prioritize this big time.

00:30:21.880 And don't wait.

00:30:22.700 That's been my thing.

00:30:24.320 Just don't wait.

00:30:25.000 The minute I know I'm in the wrong, I immediately like, you know, I don't know why it comes to mind.

00:30:30.220 I'm like, Koa, come here really quick.

00:30:32.260 You know, eye level.

00:30:33.840 Hey, buddy, I'm sorry.

00:30:35.860 I shouldn't have yelled at you.

00:30:38.200 I shouldn't be being mean.

00:30:39.900 I'm sorry about that.

00:30:41.620 And then move on.

00:30:42.540 Well, I think it's important.

00:30:43.480 Yeah.

00:30:43.680 And I think it's important to do it quickly, too, because the longer you wait, they may not be able to connect your apology to what happened either.

00:30:50.420 You know, it's like when you're training this, it's not it's a bad analogy because I'm not likening my kids to a dog. 0.97

00:30:58.220 But if you punish a dog for pooping in the house, but you do it a week later, it just thinks you're being a dick.

00:31:06.860 Like it doesn't connect the punishment with pooping in the house because it's been so long.

00:31:12.820 And so I think it's really important that you do it quickly, not to mention the emotional relief that comes from just squaring up with a person who you've slighted in some way.

00:31:23.540 But, yeah, I agree.

00:31:24.300 Do that.

00:31:24.800 Do that fast.

00:31:25.720 Do it quick.

00:31:26.180 And then also make sure that you change your behavior because what you run the risk of doing is having empty apologies.

00:31:34.340 So if you lose your patience constantly and every week or every couple of days, you're having to say sorry to one of your kids for losing your patience, they're just going to say, OK, dad, whatever.

00:31:46.680 Cool.

00:31:47.620 Because they know in two days you're going to do it again.

00:31:50.160 Yeah.

00:31:50.400 And then that undermines the trust that you have with them.

00:31:53.980 But also there's another thing here, too, that if you're losing your patience with your kids every two days, what's going on?

00:32:03.000 Are you stressed?

00:32:05.420 Are you angry?

00:32:06.760 Are you do you have resentment?

00:32:09.500 Like what is actually at the root of what you're doing over and over and over again?

00:32:13.960 And I'd say there's some work that needs to be addressed if you haven't apologized all the time for the same thing over and over again.

00:32:21.900 Yeah.

00:32:22.780 Yeah.

00:32:23.000 Good call.

00:32:23.500 All right, Jeremy Kofi, what's one major disappointment you faced that in hindsight turned out to be a blessing?

00:32:30.880 I saw this question.

00:32:33.860 I've had so many things that it would be hard for me to take one, you know, and say, oh, it's this one.

00:32:38.580 I remember this one thing happened and I was devastated.

00:32:41.080 My life's full of disappointments that I've benefited from.

00:32:45.480 It's like, yeah, it's like, how's the saying go?

00:32:48.360 You're like, I've had more disappointments than most people have, you know, or forgotten more disappointments than most people have ever had or something like that.

00:32:55.020 But that's not true.

00:32:56.300 Like all of us have disappointments in life.

00:32:58.840 And I don't know, my faith has been tested over the past couple of years, but I still have enough to say, you know what?

00:33:06.400 Like there is a plan for this, whether it's losing a relationship or a job or getting hurt or doing something dumb or dealing with a bankruptcy and making a bad financial decision.

00:33:22.240 There's lessons in all of it and you talked about that.

00:33:24.640 I do remember one in particular when I was fairly early on in my marriage, within the first several months, I was in retail.

00:33:37.340 I managed buckle clothing stores of all places, believe it or not.

00:33:40.220 And most people would probably laugh if they knew that, but that's what I did.

00:33:43.020 And I was offered a store in Southern California.

00:33:47.520 So we were going to move from Northern Utah to Southern California.

00:33:51.280 And I was so excited about it.

00:33:53.280 Just so, just completely passionate about it, excited about it.

00:33:57.120 I finally get my own store.

00:33:59.000 It's in Southern California, this big, beautiful, brand new mall, Victoria Gardens Mall in Rancho Cucamonga.

00:34:04.960 Like it was, it was awesome.

00:34:06.620 It was such a cool experience, newly married at the time.

00:34:09.820 And we get down there and if I remember correctly, it was about three months, maybe four months into our trip, our work, my work down there.

00:34:21.600 And I get a call from my sergeant in the National Guard.

00:34:26.580 And he says, hey, Ryan, our unit's been activated.

00:34:29.820 We're going to Iraq. 0.54

00:34:32.580 And it wrecked my plan.

00:34:35.500 Like I was going to move through the corporate ladder.

00:34:37.580 I was going to, I was going to run that store.

00:34:40.120 I was going to become a district manager.

00:34:41.460 Like I was so excited about it.

00:34:43.200 I loved the work.

00:34:44.080 There's still a lot that I miss about that work.

00:34:46.100 We ended up going to Iraq in 2005 and 2006.

00:34:50.660 And about halfway through that deployment, I realized, you know what?

00:34:55.940 I don't know if I actually want to do that when I get back.

00:34:58.680 I don't think I want to work nights and weekends.

00:35:00.700 And I don't think I want to travel from store to store and help them fix stores.

00:35:04.420 And the corporate offices were in Kearney, Nebraska.

00:35:08.200 Nobody's ever heard it.

00:35:09.560 And if I wanted to be in corporate, that's where I would have to be unless they had stay-at-home options.

00:35:14.760 And I realized, I don't want to do the holidays.

00:35:17.640 And I'm ready for something new.

00:35:20.520 And so long story short, I ended up taking my, I came back from a leave, met with a financial advisor.

00:35:27.000 And he had said that he's looking for a few advisors.

00:35:29.640 And I took all of my insurance and investment materials back to Iraq with me for the last half of my deployment.

00:35:36.420 And ended up studying those because I didn't have a plan when I got back.

00:35:40.040 And I remember calling my district manager and she said, hey, we're so excited to have you back in a couple months.

00:35:44.540 And I told her, I said, I'm not, I'm not coming back.

00:35:47.120 She's like, what?

00:35:48.400 I said, yeah, I'm not coming back.

00:35:49.660 I don't want to do that.

00:35:50.300 And she was disappointed and I was disappointed, but it was the right decision.

00:35:53.700 And the decision to do the financial planning stuff springboarded into a very lucrative and successful financial planning practice, which, again, long story short, springboarded what we're doing here with Order of Man.

00:36:08.920 If I was never deployed, I would probably still be in retail in some capacity, probably at the corporate level.

00:36:15.280 And I would have been fine at that.

00:36:16.640 But the trajectory that I was on, that I didn't know I was on, is pretty incredible when you think about it and you look back over that time frame.

00:36:24.600 Yeah, that's wild.

00:36:26.220 Dude, I could think of so many things like this.

00:36:28.640 Like, they're everywhere.

00:36:29.680 And I think that's at the root of this question, right?

00:36:32.600 Is that disappointment, it can serve us.

00:36:37.280 And there's blessings in so much disappointment that we experience in life.

00:36:43.180 I mean, I wouldn't have never started my own company if I didn't get laid off by Intel back in 08.

00:36:51.100 Yeah.

00:36:52.020 Dude.

00:36:52.700 I mean, and trust me, I was like stressed out about that.

00:36:55.760 I'm like absolutely bad.

00:36:57.640 Like, you know, if I had to give it a grade, I'm like, this is not good.

00:37:00.900 Well, guess what?

00:37:01.600 It ended up being the best thing ever, right?

00:37:03.140 I mean, there was a time when we were trying to move back from New York and we were looking at houses here in Utah.

00:37:10.680 And Ryan, you've been to the house.

00:37:12.620 That particular house, we looked at it, we saw it, and we got outbid and we lost that house.

00:37:18.960 I'm not sure if you know this or not.

00:37:20.280 We lost that house.

00:37:21.280 And shortly right after that, I had a bunch of clients that like defaulted on payments and stuff.

00:37:31.380 And in hindsight, we wouldn't have gotten the house anyway.

00:37:36.120 There's no way we would have gotten the house.

00:37:38.000 I didn't have the down payment that I was forecasting based upon business cash flow.

00:37:43.320 So I'm like, so it's good that we got outbid.

00:37:47.700 Here's the funny part.

00:37:48.580 Six months later, I called the realtor.

00:37:50.900 I'm like, hey, whatever happened to that house?

00:37:53.980 And he's like, let me check on it.

00:37:55.320 Calls him back in an hour and says, it's back on the market.

00:37:59.460 Really?

00:38:00.100 Yeah.

00:38:00.520 And I'm like, bid now.

00:38:03.440 Like, we'll take it.

00:38:05.160 And that moment, we were prepared to get that house.

00:38:11.980 And I can go on and on around scenarios where I thought the sky was falling.

00:38:19.080 And everything's horrible.

00:38:20.860 And it ended up just being just fine, if not better than what I assumed.

00:38:27.260 I think a lot of it, too, just has to do with your attitude about it.

00:38:30.460 You know, you were talking about hope earlier.

00:38:33.000 And if you have a hopeful attitude, then things have a way of working themselves out.

00:38:37.660 You know, and maybe it is God's plan, ultimately.

00:38:40.800 Or maybe it's just that you're just an optimistic person, and you're willing to make the best of every situation.

00:38:45.840 And so, of course, more opportunities present themselves to you.

00:38:49.320 You know, I kind of joke around a little bit with church.

00:38:55.340 You know, a lot of times I'll hear people say, well, you know, we just moved here, and we really prayed, and God told us that we needed to live here.

00:39:03.540 Or God told me I needed to do this for work.

00:39:06.200 And in my arrogance, I used to say, God doesn't care.

00:39:09.900 Yeah.

00:39:10.260 He doesn't care where you live.

00:39:11.960 He doesn't care where you work or what you do.

00:39:13.720 He just wants you to be a good and righteous person and follow him.

00:39:17.580 Yeah.

00:39:17.800 And you can do that in St. George or in Maine or in Italy or wherever.

00:39:23.600 And you're going to find good people there and bad people there.

00:39:26.080 It's no surprise to me that the most optimistic people are always the ones who are the most successful in life.

00:39:32.200 And, you know, you might be tempted to say, well, the reason they're optimistic is because they're successful.

00:39:37.520 I don't think so.

00:39:38.860 I think they're optimistic, and it breeds success.

00:39:41.460 Yes, however you want to measure that and define that.

00:39:45.680 I'm not so arrogant to say that God doesn't care.

00:39:48.380 I believe he does.

00:39:50.440 But I think he's also going to give you what you need to make the most of wherever you are.

00:39:56.640 Yeah.

00:39:57.540 And everybody always thinks that the next thing is better.

00:40:03.460 The next job is better.

00:40:04.840 The next relationship is better.

00:40:06.420 The next hobby is better.

00:40:09.320 The next this, the next workout, the next that is always better.

00:40:13.460 It is better if you decide to make it better.

00:40:16.040 Like you were saying earlier about learning from your mistakes.

00:40:20.880 If you're, if your financial situation will be better if you learn what you need to learn.

00:40:25.900 Your next relationship will be better if you learn what you need to learn.

00:40:30.300 But it's for me, I lie somewhere in the middle between God doesn't care and he cares about everything.

00:40:37.440 But he's already given you what you need to make the most of any situation you might find yourself in.

00:40:44.680 Totally.

00:40:45.340 You know, I use this during training around leadership, around talking about the power of difficulty and stress.

00:40:54.320 And there's actual change in the brain when stress is involved that allows the learning to cement and be more concrete.

00:41:07.440 That is a fact.

00:41:08.960 And I always use the analogy of jujitsu.

00:41:11.900 Stress on the mat, training, you know, I'd say level five.

00:41:17.660 Tournament stress, level 10.

00:41:20.500 Almost every single tournament, I remember like they were yesterday, right?

00:41:27.700 I remember the mistakes I made.

00:41:29.240 I remember what I was thinking.

00:41:31.360 It's concrete in my mind.

00:41:34.600 Why?

00:41:35.180 Stress was super high.

00:41:37.080 Learning opportunity was optimal.

00:41:39.960 Here's the key though.

00:41:41.320 What is it that I'm learning?

00:41:43.240 So when stress is super high and I'm learning, woe is me, nothing for me to learn.

00:41:50.760 Everyone always does this to me.

00:41:52.900 I can't ever trust anybody.

00:41:54.480 Guess what you're learning?

00:41:55.620 You're learning that.

00:41:57.460 Yeah.

00:41:57.640 And that's going to be concrete in your mindset.

00:42:00.700 But if during stress, you choose to be optimistic, you choose to see the silver lining, you choose to look at a growth opportunity.

00:42:09.240 Guess what you're going to learn?

00:42:12.240 Perseverance, hope, growth.

00:42:15.040 All these other things will be cemented in your mind.

00:42:18.840 So the way you look at stress absolutely dictates future circumstances and how you deal with them.

00:42:26.940 I like the way you said that.

00:42:28.200 The way you look at stress, because there are stressful situations.

00:42:31.380 All of us have them.

00:42:32.920 Just how are you going to look at it?

00:42:34.320 And the beautiful thing is you get to choose.

00:42:36.780 You could be devastated today for some reason, whatever reason.

00:42:39.840 And you could choose.

00:42:41.180 You could still be devastated, but you can choose like, hey, yeah, I feel that way, but also I'm going to choose to be optimistic.

00:42:47.140 I'm going to choose to be happy or I'm going to choose to be productive today.

00:42:50.100 You know, a lot of these guys who are talking about going through divorces, it's a decision that you have to make every moment.

00:42:56.740 Not every day.

00:42:57.380 For you and what you're going through right now, it's every moment.

00:43:00.620 When you're driving down the road to work and you hear a song that reminds you of her and you're tempted to break down and cry, sure, if it's appropriate, do what you got to do.

00:43:09.580 But then buck up and say, you know what? 0.93

00:43:11.520 I'm still going to kick ass at work today because that is what I'm deciding to do. 0.93

00:43:16.660 Or, you know, maybe you've been divorced for a year and you think, man, I'm interested in getting back into the dating pool. 0.97

00:43:23.240 Okay.

00:43:23.540 Then choose to be optimistic that there's good women out there. 0.97

00:43:27.040 You just have to be a good man and find who it is.

00:43:29.600 And that your past experience with women does not mean that all women might be that certain way that was bothering you, right?

00:43:37.880 Man, it's just make a choice in spite of how you feel.

00:43:42.600 Make a choice.

00:43:43.420 And there's, speaking of the brain chemistry, so there's the amygdala, which is responsible for processing emotion.

00:43:53.260 We talked a little bit about this in Iron Council on Friday.

00:43:56.900 And that is what is referred to generally as the lizard brain.

00:44:01.900 It's the oldest, most mature portion of the brain, but it's designed to process emotion.

00:44:09.000 And then you have this more advanced version, newer version called the prefrontal cortex.

00:44:13.400 And the prefrontal cortex is designed around logical and rational decision-making.

00:44:19.380 So your brain is literally fighting making rational decisions.

00:44:24.260 Against itself.

00:44:24.940 When cortisol levels, yeah, against itself.

00:44:27.100 It's like the devil and the angel sitting on the shoulder.

00:44:29.700 Like the devil's like, you should feel bad. 1.00

00:44:31.400 You're a horrible piece of shit. 1.00

00:44:32.540 And the angel's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 1.00

00:44:34.620 You're probably not.

00:44:35.740 You probably did some things wrong.

00:44:37.080 Here, here's what they are and learn them.

00:44:39.880 And then like, let's be better now.

00:44:41.920 And that's what's happening in our brains.

00:44:44.220 And it's something to be aware of because it's something we have to contend with every day.

00:44:48.960 Yeah.

00:44:49.460 Every single day.

00:44:50.880 Absolutely.

00:44:51.580 Just make a decision.

00:44:53.580 Brett Wardall, he has a great question here.

00:44:56.960 He says, if your son or future son grew up to model your life exactly as it is now,

00:45:02.640 what would you be proud of and what would you fear?

00:45:07.920 I would be proud of, I'd be proud of him if he followed any, like his dreams and his interests

00:45:18.140 and he was willing to take some risks.

00:45:20.600 Yeah.

00:45:21.280 And I feel like that's what I've done.

00:45:23.140 And I feel like I've taken risks and I feel like I've, I've done a good job there.

00:45:26.600 Um, what I would not be proud of, not that I wouldn't be proud of, but that I wouldn't

00:45:32.620 wish on him is, I don't even really know how to explain it.

00:45:40.240 I would, I would hope that he would take care of himself a little better than I do for me.

00:45:47.520 Physically, mentally, spiritually.

00:45:50.080 Yeah.

00:45:50.840 All of it.

00:45:51.600 Those, those realms I talked about, you know, I'm hard on myself.

00:45:54.500 I'm not forgiving.

00:45:56.480 Um, I, I hold onto things for a long time.

00:45:59.400 I don't hold grudges.

00:46:00.500 I can move past things pretty well, but, um, I have some insecurities that are, are hard

00:46:08.720 to deal with at times.

00:46:10.100 Um, and I'm sure all of us feel that way, but sometimes it's abusive.

00:46:15.240 Yeah.

00:46:16.440 And I just, I would, I would not want that for him.

00:46:19.420 So I'm trying to work on what I can do now so that I can model hopefully what my children

00:46:26.440 will follow.

00:46:27.060 But those are hard things for me.

00:46:28.360 They're really hard.

00:46:29.480 Totally.

00:46:30.360 Yeah.

00:46:30.840 I think for me, it's, you know, I think I've done a good job rising above my circumstance.

00:46:35.720 You know, I, I joked around that my intro to that keynote last week was kind of poking

00:46:42.000 fun of my upbringing, to be honest with you.

00:46:44.820 Uh, and I think I've done good, right?

00:46:47.180 Like I, I think in the grand scheme of things being raised the way I was raised, um, I've

00:46:54.420 done well for myself.

00:46:55.640 I mean, I, and I don't use this as a badge, but you know, I was like the third, third out

00:47:01.580 of nine to graduate high school, the only one to go to college, right?

00:47:05.160 Like in the grand scheme of things on paper, um, my family's not, um, successful, right?

00:47:13.220 If you want to use that term now, with that all said, the thing that I wouldn't want my

00:47:19.440 son to attach that I have attached is being happy with myself, which is ironic, right?

00:47:28.760 Because how much of the quest of all those things was a superficial quest of seeking validation

00:47:38.120 and happiness when reality that's available to all of us right now.

00:47:43.500 Yeah.

00:47:44.100 And it took me a lot of years to realize that I, I always felt that if I achieved, if I

00:47:50.300 made more money, if I had the accolades of man, if I sought approval of others, that meant

00:47:56.740 that I could have to be full fulfilled and at peace and happy with myself.

00:48:03.220 And, uh, unfortunately I, now I used it to my benefit.

00:48:08.020 It has served me to some extent.

00:48:10.500 I won at that game, but I, I wouldn't say that I've been happy with myself for the last

00:48:16.800 20 years.

00:48:17.600 It took a long time for me to realize that it was never going to be found in any of that.

00:48:22.580 Um, and so I'd want my boys, um, just to be happy, to enjoy life, to be grateful for what

00:48:29.940 they have and, uh, and don't, don't seek after all that superficial bullshit that, that I spent

00:48:37.380 too much time focusing on. 0.80

00:48:39.140 Yeah.

00:48:41.240 There's, um, I've been reading this book, uh, called let them by Mel Robbins.

00:48:47.340 I've told you a little bit about it.

00:48:48.400 It's really good.

00:48:49.100 I've, I'm listening to it, actually not reading it, but I've really enjoyed it.

00:48:52.800 It's, um, definitely lowered my blood pressure when we allow others to live how they're going

00:48:57.880 to live and know that it's beyond our control.

00:49:00.860 Yeah.

00:49:01.340 But she has said this phrase a couple of times.

00:49:04.060 Um, and I think the phrase, I might get the words wrong, but it's something along the lines

00:49:09.220 of you get one wild and precious life.

00:49:14.060 And it is, it's wild.

00:49:15.420 Like it's crazy and you can make whatever you want and it's highs and lows and ups and

00:49:19.400 downs.

00:49:19.700 And it is precious because once it's gone, it's gone.

00:49:22.620 We're done.

00:49:23.320 And whatever happens today is over.

00:49:26.540 That's kind of scary.

00:49:27.860 Actually.

00:49:28.600 Yeah.

00:49:29.040 I saw this map and it was this, it's this printout and it's dots for every day of your life.

00:49:35.060 If you live to average life expectancy and you fill in each day.

00:49:39.300 Yeah.

00:49:39.920 And it's scary.

00:49:41.240 We're almost half more than halfway when you look at it.

00:49:45.500 Yeah.

00:49:45.740 I've seen that same thing.

00:49:46.960 I'm flat.

00:49:47.460 I don't know if I'd want that.

00:49:48.840 No, I wouldn't either.

00:49:50.620 I guess that's the stoic memento Mori concept, but, um, you know, or I've, I've had friends

00:49:57.360 who describe raising their kids as 18 summers.

00:50:01.000 Yeah.

00:50:02.260 Like you get 18 summers with them.

00:50:04.220 That's it.

00:50:04.840 That's it.

00:50:05.700 Yeah.

00:50:06.100 And then it's done.

00:50:07.860 So I think there is something to be said for just realizing like, what, what would you

00:50:12.860 do today if you knew you were going to die tomorrow?

00:50:15.560 I mean, I think you'd be willing to do a lot more and I'm not saying that you should

00:50:22.060 just be reckless because you might die at some point, but you probably should take a

00:50:27.040 few more risks than you currently are.

00:50:28.500 So should I, or we probably ought to get over things faster or let go of resentment or grudges.

00:50:34.900 Yes, exactly.

00:50:36.300 Um, take some risks, try a new thing.

00:50:38.160 When somebody, when a friend calls you and says, Hey, do you want to do this?

00:50:40.500 Yeah.

00:50:40.780 Heck yeah.

00:50:41.060 I want to do that.

00:50:41.640 I don't know if I'll ever get the chance to do that again.

00:50:44.380 And if you have the means and opportunity, by all means, take advantage of it.

00:50:47.960 Yeah.

00:50:48.460 That wild and precious life is something that resonated with me.

00:50:51.420 Yeah.

00:50:51.900 I love that.

00:50:52.620 I mean, and, and to your point, the summers, right?

00:50:55.280 I use that.

00:50:56.640 Luckily I read something like that a few years back.

00:51:00.680 Um, it's probably the same source where you read it.

00:51:03.340 I don't even know where I got that from, but it's probably a Jim, Jim Shields, I think

00:51:08.600 is his name.

00:51:09.160 That talks about summers that you have with people.

00:51:12.360 Yeah.

00:51:12.800 Keep going.

00:51:13.360 I'll pull it up while you're, while you're talking.

00:51:15.180 Anyhow.

00:51:15.620 I mean, luckily I was exposed to that concept a few years before my dad died.

00:51:20.720 And I remember going home, having that conversation with my wife saying, you know, I got three,

00:51:28.060 maybe three summers and not any summers.

00:51:32.500 How often do I visit once a summer?

00:51:35.400 Okay.

00:51:35.700 I got three visits, maybe six visits, period.

00:51:40.760 That's it.

00:51:41.500 That's all I got with them.

00:51:43.360 And, and luckily we made a little bit of a pivot and an adjustment to how often I was

00:51:48.600 seeing my parents at the time.

00:51:49.920 And I'm grateful we did because we, we had that mindset, you know, of limited time.

00:51:55.980 Yeah.

00:51:57.060 Yeah.

00:51:58.140 All right.

00:51:58.780 One more question.

00:51:59.700 The one, yeah, one more.

00:52:00.960 The one that I was going to talk to you, talk to you about is, or the resource it's called

00:52:05.560 the family board meeting by Jim Shields.

00:52:08.080 And the subtitle is you have 18 summers to create lasting connection with your children.

00:52:13.360 So it's a good book.

00:52:16.560 The family board meeting.

00:52:18.060 Yeah.

00:52:18.400 Okay.

00:52:19.280 All right.

00:52:19.780 Chris, we're going to hop over to Facebook.

00:52:21.960 Christopher Kroom.

00:52:23.400 He has two questions, solid questions.

00:52:25.960 So maybe we do a one, two punch here.

00:52:28.460 Number one, hierarchical decision-making.

00:52:31.900 Do you use any consistent, repeatable matrix or prioritization frameworks to game plan your

00:52:38.960 short and long-term goals?

00:52:40.940 Let's stop there really quick.

00:52:43.020 And then I'll go to question number two.

00:52:45.420 I don't, um, because that's not my mentality.

00:52:49.280 I'm a very intuitive thinker and processor.

00:52:52.340 I process fast and I process with a lot of intuition.

00:52:55.600 Um, I'm not saying that my way is better than somebody who processes through data, for

00:53:00.700 example, or emotion.

00:53:03.080 Um, I would think if it's just emotion, that would probably be inferior, but, uh, cause

00:53:08.680 I think your heart can play a lot of tricks on you.

00:53:11.320 Uh, but, but I, I tend to be more intuitive.

00:53:13.960 And so if I write out my vision, which I have, and I have my objectives for the quarter, which

00:53:20.020 I do, and then I have my tactics for the day, which are set.

00:53:23.700 And then I have my to-do list, the things that come up.

00:53:26.320 I can look at my to-do list.

00:53:28.060 In fact, I did this morning.

00:53:29.040 I had to book some flights that was a, that took priority.

00:53:32.660 Is it the most pressing thing I'll do all day?

00:53:35.560 No, this probably is, or another podcast that I might have, but that had to be done right

00:53:41.100 then and there.

00:53:41.660 And I'm intuitive, intuitive enough to know, okay, that's what's required because I have

00:53:47.220 all of it in front of me.

00:53:49.040 Yeah.

00:53:49.440 So I guess you could say I have a system for putting all the facts and information in front

00:53:54.360 of me and then I can scan it, look at it, process it as quickly as I do and make a decision.

00:53:59.880 I also, we have these mindsets and there's, some of them are so ingrained and into our subconscious

00:54:06.400 that we don't even realize that we're doing it.

00:54:08.440 Um, and, and one of my ingrained mindsets is don't waste time.

00:54:17.780 And so I can sit here for an hour or a week or a year thinking about something, or I could

00:54:26.040 just do it.

00:54:26.700 You know, how, how many times have you heard of people who are like, Oh, I wanted to start

00:54:31.480 a business for five years.

00:54:32.760 I remember this guy one time I was putting up a new fence at my house and the guy came

00:54:39.940 over and he was dropping the supplies off for the fence from the local hardware store.

00:54:45.680 And we got talking for a minute and he's like, Oh, so what do you do for work?

00:54:48.720 And I, and I told him what I did and he told me, Oh, you know what?

00:54:53.200 I've always wanted to, and I can't remember what he said.

00:54:55.700 He's like, 10 years ago, I wanted to do this thing.

00:54:58.940 And I said, why didn't you do it?

00:55:00.760 He's like, I don't know.

00:55:01.680 I'm just, just time.

00:55:02.700 And like, I was young and I didn't have any money and I just didn't know what to do or

00:55:05.820 how to do it.

00:55:06.540 I'm like, well, that's, that's fair.

00:55:08.440 That makes sense.

00:55:08.980 Why don't you do it right now?

00:55:11.180 And he said the same thing.

00:55:12.560 I don't know.

00:55:13.200 It was time and like money and I don't know what to do or how to do it.

00:55:17.340 And I said, well, can I be really frank with you about it?

00:55:19.900 He's like, yeah.

00:55:20.460 I said, I'll see you in 10 years when I have to rebuild this fence and we're going to have

00:55:24.700 the same conversation we're having right now.

00:55:28.220 How, how do you feel about that? 0.99

00:55:29.820 He's like, shit, I never looked at it like that. 0.98

00:55:33.460 He said, look, I'm not trying to like dismiss what you're doing for work or your life, but 0.99

00:55:37.880 you don't seem real content.

00:55:40.700 And what are you going to do?

00:55:41.700 Just wait around, hope that something changes.

00:55:44.560 So the, the time wasting thing, I'm not willing to sit on things and waste a bunch of time.

00:55:50.140 It's just not a thing I'm willing to do.

00:55:52.940 I love that.

00:55:54.520 All right.

00:55:55.280 Christopher's last question, which was the one I really want to get to, because I don't

00:55:58.960 know why I love this optics versus execution.

00:56:02.840 We live in a world where, especially in corporate settings, optics means as much, if not more than

00:56:08.580 someone's character or ability to execute.

00:56:11.420 I've made a clear stance in my profession.

00:56:13.780 I don't care about optics.

00:56:15.280 However, it seems necessary evil to bring attention to otherwise solid work.

00:56:21.720 Seems like the squeaky wheel gets the grease, even when another quieter wheel needs, oops, sorry,

00:56:28.440 I didn't scroll down all the way, needs it more because leaders only look outward evidence

00:56:33.040 and never inspection for the actual work.

00:56:37.940 I'm going to chastise a little bit.

00:56:39.760 Listen, you have a real bad attitude, Chris, about optics.

00:56:45.200 Optics are crucial, critical.

00:56:48.000 I mean, think, think about, okay.

00:56:50.460 And, and, and I can, I can say that because we know each other and like I'm playing, but

00:56:54.680 also like, Hey, like let's change the attitude on this one.

00:56:57.540 And here's why every day when you get out of bed, you put on a shirt and you have that

00:57:05.360 shirt for a reason.

00:57:06.500 Maybe you think it looks good.

00:57:09.340 Maybe it portrays what you want it to portray.

00:57:12.340 Maybe it makes you feel a certain way and it motivates you because you look nice in that

00:57:16.300 shirt and you do your hair a certain way.

00:57:18.760 And you know what else I know you do is you have that beautiful backdrop when we're on our

00:57:22.760 zoom meetings on Friday and you pick that for a reason.

00:57:26.100 Those are optics.

00:57:27.120 And when I get behind this microphone, Kip, you and I have these microphones for a reason

00:57:33.060 because it projects sound well and it gets a good audio quality and I have the lighting

00:57:38.300 and the camera because optics matter and the way that we present ourselves matter.

00:57:43.220 So what if instead of saying optics is at odds with execution, optics is an element of execution.

00:57:49.360 I would rather take a guy who's 80% execution and maybe 20% optics than just a hundred percent

00:57:57.660 execution, but it's a slob, can't talk to people, doesn't care, can't communicate because 1.00

00:58:02.840 he's not worried about what other people think.

00:58:06.200 And I think there is a place for what other people think.

00:58:09.640 I care about what you guys think.

00:58:11.460 How arrogant would it be if I didn't?

00:58:15.600 I care about what my kids think.

00:58:18.340 I care about what my friends think.

00:58:21.100 Now, I don't care about what everybody thinks, but there are a few people that I really, really

00:58:25.140 deeply respect and people that I take their thoughts about me into consideration.

00:58:31.660 And so what do I want to put forward?

00:58:35.880 I want to put forward good work.

00:58:37.760 I want to communicate consistency.

00:58:40.140 I want people to trust when I say something that it's going to get done.

00:58:44.420 And everything I do, I try to convey that through the optics that are there.

00:58:49.220 It doesn't make me disingenuous.

00:58:51.300 I think that's the fear that, Chris, you might be having is that it's making you disingenuous.

00:58:57.200 It's not.

00:58:57.900 You're just putting your best foot forward to give yourself the best opportunity.

00:59:02.000 And optic doesn't mean you're being the squeaky wheel.

00:59:05.320 I don't think that at all.

00:59:06.500 But can you be assertive with your boss?

00:59:09.340 Can you be assertive with your clients so that the optics are there without all the baggage

00:59:13.080 and the bull crap of the squeaky wheel?

00:59:15.720 I think you probably could. 0.99

00:59:17.340 Operating in a little bit of a false dichotomy here, I think.

00:59:19.880 Yeah, absolutely.

00:59:21.260 Well, and we're talking about influence.

00:59:24.220 And you alluded to this.

00:59:26.100 That's what it means to be human.

00:59:29.600 Day in and day out, I believe this.

00:59:31.840 Day in and day out, most people spend their entire day focused on doing things to look good

00:59:38.540 and the avoidance of things of looking bad.

00:59:41.680 Right?

00:59:41.840 It is at the center of what it means to be human.

00:59:44.880 And to say that you don't do it, I think we're lacking maybe some self-awareness.

00:59:52.880 You are doing it.

00:59:54.200 We mostly all do it.

00:59:56.480 And it's not bad.

00:59:57.780 It's not good.

00:59:58.380 It just is.

01:00:00.000 And if you want to influence people, guess if I don't know your day to day,

01:00:04.760 if I'm not involved in all that you do, guess all that I have to judge on is what?

01:00:11.620 Optics.

01:00:12.200 What you know.

01:00:12.780 And that's what humans do.

01:00:15.280 We do it all the time.

01:00:16.480 Right?

01:00:16.780 We watch certain YouTube videos because they talk to a certain way and how it was delivered

01:00:21.280 to look better, look more professional.

01:00:23.320 We're attracted to other people because we make a quick judgment that, oh, they must care

01:00:27.900 about their body more or they must be more professional at what they do.

01:00:31.880 It's what it means to be human.

01:00:35.240 Now, should you be aware of that as well and realize that you may be quickly judging

01:00:42.520 people based upon optics and it may not be the full truth?

01:00:46.160 Absolutely.

01:00:47.000 Be aware of the condition and what we do as humans, but also realize it's kind of what

01:00:55.180 it means to be a human, period.

01:00:57.060 Yeah.

01:00:57.740 And then navigate within that.

01:00:59.920 I mean, I confronted, but full disclosure, Christopher, I confronted this at one point.

01:01:05.200 I remember years ago.

01:01:07.300 It's kind of a funny story.

01:01:08.820 I'll share it really quickly.

01:01:10.060 Is I was, had a partner meeting, possible deal with another firm.

01:01:17.020 It was kind of an important lunch.

01:01:19.420 Okay.

01:01:20.020 And we had two cars.

01:01:21.820 We had, if I remember correctly, we had a Land Rover and we had a Mazda six that had

01:01:29.460 a loose muffler and it was really embarrassing to drive.

01:01:32.900 Those are the two cars we had.

01:01:34.280 And I woke up in the morning and no, no, no, we had my BMW and the Mazda.

01:01:39.600 That's what it was.

01:01:40.220 We had my BMW and the Mazda and we woke up in the morning and something came up and Asia's 1.00

01:01:44.460 like, Hey, I got to take the BMW.

01:01:46.240 And I'm like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

01:01:47.760 You can't take the BMW.

01:01:48.940 She's like, why am I?

01:01:49.900 I have this meeting.

01:01:51.300 I'm not driving the Mazda.

01:01:53.900 Right.

01:01:54.280 And she was like, who cares?

01:01:56.220 And I'm like, it matters.

01:01:58.020 If I go have a meeting with someone and we're talking about I'm successful, you're successful,

01:02:04.580 you've achieved it in life, you're doing well, and you pull up in a Mazda, you don't

01:02:08.500 think I'm judging that guy?

01:02:11.180 Absolutely.

01:02:12.280 Of course.

01:02:12.680 I'm judging them.

01:02:13.680 Of course.

01:02:14.400 Now, should we, should we not?

01:02:16.200 No, no, no.

01:02:16.620 Don't, don't get into right and wrong.

01:02:18.460 Just focus on realize that that's what we do and, and understand the optics.

01:02:23.920 Well, I think there's one other element that we overlooked here too, is aren't optics a

01:02:29.720 respect to the other party?

01:02:32.100 Yeah.

01:02:33.340 Like aren't, like when I show up ready to have this conversation, audio quality is good.

01:02:38.220 It means something.

01:02:38.400 Video quality is good.

01:02:39.260 We have topics.

01:02:40.960 I, that's respect.

01:02:42.520 I'm paying respect to the people who I want to have listened to it.

01:02:46.280 Or if, or in one aspect, if you go to church, like I think Christopher is a church going

01:02:51.680 man.

01:02:51.960 Like you go to church, I'm not saying you have to wear your Sunday best, you know, but

01:02:56.320 you, you might, maybe you wear a suit and a tie.

01:02:58.260 At least you've got slacks and a collared shirt on, I imagine, because you want to pay

01:03:02.680 respect to the gravity of the situation, your God, or, or when you go to your daughter's 0.92

01:03:09.060 dance recital, like hopefully you don't show up like a slob. 1.00

01:03:13.000 You know, there is that picture of that.

01:03:15.360 I think he was a coal miner and he showed up to his son's basketball game or something.

01:03:18.900 And he's dirty from head to toe.

01:03:20.240 So that's a different story. 1.00

01:03:22.220 He's paying respect by busting his butt to be there. 0.97

01:03:25.980 And that's a different story. 0.96

01:03:27.300 But if you go to your daughter's dance recital and you have the means and the time, don't,

01:03:31.880 wouldn't you put on either a pair of slacks or a suit or a nice pair of jeans with a button

01:03:37.000 up shirt and maybe groom your beard, get a haircut, show up with flowers so you can give them

01:03:42.600 to her out.

01:03:43.080 It's respectful to her.

01:03:45.280 You're honoring other people when you, when you think about that.

01:03:48.460 At least that's how I do it.

01:03:49.680 I agree.

01:03:50.560 And we do this with our spouses, right?

01:03:53.100 Like look good, look good for them.

01:03:57.160 Yeah.

01:03:57.460 It's a form of honoring them, right?

01:04:00.260 And the relationship that we can have with them as well.

01:04:02.960 Yeah, definitely.

01:04:04.300 All right, man.

01:04:05.380 So I think that's a good one called action.

01:04:07.020 Dude.

01:04:07.340 Yeah.

01:04:07.560 Talk about like a divorce session. 0.90

01:04:09.520 I know, man.

01:04:10.380 Rough.

01:04:11.520 Divorce, not death.com.

01:04:14.480 Middle of June, June 15th.

01:04:17.060 Go to order man.com.

01:04:18.760 Get connected.

01:04:19.700 Learn more.

01:04:20.400 Stay connected with Mr.

01:04:21.620 Mickler to learn more about that as well.

01:04:23.800 At Ryan Mickler on both X and Instagram.

01:04:27.600 Once again, death, not, or divorce, not death.com.

01:04:32.280 Perfect.

01:04:32.940 I love it.

01:04:33.580 Guys, good questions.

01:04:34.920 I feel for those of you who are going through divorces and separations right now, I know how

01:04:39.020 difficult that can be, but my main message on that is just, is even in the wake of it,

01:04:45.160 be hopeful.

01:04:46.140 Yeah.

01:04:46.700 And, and I think the more hopeful you are, the more right decisions you'll make, which

01:04:51.800 will get you through it more effectively.

01:04:54.260 So if nothing else, choose to be hopeful because you'll make better decisions.

01:04:58.720 That's it.

01:04:59.480 All right, guys, we'll be back on Friday.

01:05:00.800 Until then, go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

01:05:08.480 Thank you for listening to the Order of Man podcast.

01:05:11.440 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:05:15.140 We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

01:05:23.800 All right.

Optics Vs Execution, The Brain's Argument with Itself, & How to Learn From Divorce ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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