Order of Man - Optimization Through Discomfort

00:00:00.000 You wouldn't be listening to this podcast if you didn't want to improve your life to some degree.

00:00:04.660 In fact, I'd argue that most of you are probably interested in optimizing every facet of your life.

00:00:09.940 And that's exactly what my friend, avid bow hunter, co-founder of Under Armour and founder

00:00:15.140 of Big Truck Farms and Brewery, Kip Foulkes, talks with me about today. Guys, this is a fascinating

00:00:20.380 discussion with an extremely, extremely fascinating man. We talk about manufacturing hardship,

00:00:26.680 becoming good stewards over all of our resources, developing undaunted courage,

00:00:33.100 managing ourselves well, and ultimately optimizing our lives.

00:00:36.780 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your

00:00:41.940 own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time. You are not easily

00:00:47.940 deterred, defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you

00:00:55.480 will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:01.900 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler, and I am the host and the founder of

00:01:06.540 the Order of Man podcast and movement. Welcome back. Thank you for being here. Thank you for

00:01:10.980 supporting. You're doing that by listening to the show. The merchandise store that we have has done

00:01:17.400 very well over the past several months. You can check that out at store.orderofman.com. That goes a long

00:01:22.920 way in promoting, obviously the work, but also supporting what we're doing here. The iron council

00:01:28.960 is growing. The number of men who are listening to this podcast is growing. So everything's on the

00:01:34.060 up and up. And I really appreciate you being in this battle. And it is a battle. It's a battle to

00:01:38.860 reclaim and restore masculinity to a place that it once was. And I feel like in society in general,

00:01:44.300 that it has been greatly diminished. And it's my job to help put it back, or at least do my part in

00:01:49.740 bringing it back to where it once was and making ourselves proud to be men and leaders of our

00:01:54.980 families and our businesses and communities. So we do that through this podcast. We've got

00:01:58.720 incredible, incredible guests, including my friend today, Kip Falks. We've also had guys like

00:02:03.440 Jocko Willink, David Goggins, Andy Frisilla, Grant Cardone, Tim Kennedy. I mean, the men that we've had on

00:02:10.820 this podcast is absolutely phenomenal and a great blessing, not only to me, but hopefully to you as well

00:02:15.960 as you listen in and gain some of their insight and knowledge. Guys, we're going to get into the

00:02:20.860 conversation here in just a second. Before we do, just want to introduce as if you don't already know

00:02:25.760 my friends and sponsors of this podcast, Origin Maine. I would highly, highly encourage that you check

00:02:32.340 it out. If you're interested in looking into their supplemental lineup, of course, it's called

00:02:36.020 Jocko Fuel partnered up with the one and only Jocko Willink. Please do so. You can get their

00:02:41.480 discipline, which is their pre-workout, their malk, which is their protein. I like their go

00:02:46.240 cognitive enhancement, energy drinks, including the new one. My friend, JP Donnell's signature

00:02:51.840 series, sour apple, apple, if I can say that sour apple sniper. There we go. So check it out.

00:02:59.100 OriginMain.com, originMain.com and make sure you use the code order, O-R-D-E-R at checkout,

00:03:04.460 because you're going to get a discount when you do. And who doesn't want to save money? Again,

00:03:07.720 originMain.com, use the code order. All right, guys, let me introduce you to Kip. Kip and I met

00:03:13.180 several years ago. I believe it was through Instagram. And then we spent some time hunting

00:03:18.580 in Arizona. And I'm always left just fascinated and inspired by our conversations because

00:03:25.360 he's a very deep thinker. He's probably actually one of the most interesting thinkers I know.

00:03:30.340 Kip is an avid outdoorsman. He played lacrosse for, well, he played professional lacrosse for 10 years,

00:03:36.480 I believe. He's also one of the original partners of Under Armour, where of course he helped build

00:03:40.960 that organization into a multi-billion dollar business. And now he owns and operates big

00:03:47.920 truck farms and brewery, where he has learned from scratch. This is incredible to me from scratch,

00:03:53.280 how to craft beer without any prior knowledge or experience. I've been asking Kip to come on the

00:04:00.220 podcast for years. Finally, we made it happen. You guys are definitely going to enjoy this one.

00:04:04.260 It's good to see you though, man. It's like I said, it's been way too long though. I'm excited

00:04:09.100 about what you're doing. So it's good to finally connect. Yeah, man, it's been good. It was last

00:04:13.820 time we saw each other, we were freaking pumping weights in Maine. That's right. Yeah. That what was

00:04:20.700 that was probably like what, three, four months ago or so you came up here to talk with Pete.

00:04:26.080 Yep. Origin guys, which is totally rad. Those guys are just like a rocket ship.

00:04:30.500 It's pretty amazing what they're doing, man. Like I was, I was actually really glad to be able to

00:04:35.960 connect you guys. Cause I knew, I knew as soon as I could, would connect you guys,

00:04:40.380 like I knew the synergy that would be there and come from that. So it was cool to see what you guys

00:04:43.860 are doing. I mean, you're, you're a good people person. And I mean, Pete is like salt to the earth.

00:04:48.600 So, I mean, I love that. And, you know, it's kind of weird, you know, like we did at Under Armour,

00:04:53.860 we started all of our manufacturing and made in USA. And then eventually, you know, you got to move

00:04:58.740 offshore to like keep up with like these huge production numbers, but you know, it never really

00:05:05.060 felt good. And so to see a company like that, just saying, you know what, we're only doing made

00:05:09.880 in the United States. Um, and we're going to buck the trend because yeah, there's cheaper stuff other

00:05:16.160 places. So my respect level for those guys was super high and a little bit jealous that we didn't

00:05:22.020 do that. You know, my back in my UA days. Yeah. Yeah. I, I agree with that. I, I actually think

00:05:28.380 too, they're leading the charge because I see this being, and you know, what also is, I think they got

00:05:33.200 out ahead of the curve that they didn't even realize existed or didn't know was coming down the pike

00:05:39.080 just because of the whole Corona virus fallout and the things with China and just the globalization of

00:05:43.740 economies to begin with, I think there's a little bit of a bad taste in an American's mouth for that.

00:05:48.880 So they got ahead of a curve that I'm not sure they knew even existed. Yeah. You know, it's funny.

00:05:54.040 It's interesting, right? That, that's a, that's really perceptive. They basically had a belief

00:06:01.700 that led to something, you know, and that's like what belief is. Right. And it can be, it doesn't

00:06:09.980 have to be religious. It doesn't have to be about, you know, like dreaming about money for your

00:06:14.840 better life for your kids. I mean, it could just be like a belief in what you want to do for your

00:06:19.440 business. Yeah. You know, I actually feel very similar to that with, with order of man and people,

00:06:26.660 people say this. So this is actually a really good point. They'll say, Oh man, you, you entered the

00:06:30.820 market, you know, quote unquote, entered the market in whatever space you did at just the right time.

00:06:35.340 I'm like, yeah, maybe, but it wasn't planned. I think the reason you believe that that's the case

00:06:41.780 is because of, like you said, the belief, the conviction, and then working my ass off over

00:06:48.240 five years. And now it looks like I had some sort of grand strategy or plan when in all reality,

00:06:53.380 it's played out this way because of the work and the effort and the belief.

00:06:58.220 Yeah. It's like, which one comes first? And I think a lot of people that have a weak

00:07:02.360 mind or a weak way of thinking very, it's easy for them to discount it by saying, Oh,

00:07:09.360 you got, you got, you did this at the perfect time. So it's like almost on them that they're

00:07:14.880 just discounting it, but they can't recognize whatever that strong belief or that discipline

00:07:20.540 or whatever that drive is. They don't, Ryan, they don't fucking recognize it.

00:07:25.640 Yeah. Yeah. It's true. You know, it's funny. It's, and I tell people this a lot. It's like,

00:07:32.260 don't, don't ever discount what somebody, what somebody's experiencing, like the positive results

00:07:39.080 people are experiencing. Cause my, my thought is if you start discounting it, even if there's some

00:07:44.160 level of truth to your discounting, like they were fortunate or they hit something at the right time,

00:07:48.880 or they made a connection or whatever, if you discount it, then what you're saying is that

00:07:55.300 you're just waiting for your ship to come in. Like it's just some sort of fortunate event and you

00:08:00.120 don't have to work as hard as maybe you ought to, because the stars are just going to align at some

00:08:05.220 point and just miraculously bestow your blessings upon you. Yeah. I mean, I, this is a good, like,

00:08:11.300 uh, when you, when you say that, I think of cam, right? So he has this thing. It's like,

00:08:17.840 yeah, you may get lucky may. Yeah. The universe may align, but like, that doesn't really change

00:08:24.860 why or how he does it. Right. And like, and you can capitalize on those opportunities. He almost

00:08:31.860 doesn't want the universe to align. He wants the struggle to be harder. And I think sometimes,

00:08:37.080 you know, cause I know you've put a lot into order of man and we've talked over the, you know,

00:08:43.080 the year here or so that we've been friends or almost two now. And it's like, I don't think

00:08:50.900 people want to understand it's hard and it's actually makes it fun. You know, problem solving

00:08:55.320 is fun. You know, if it under armor or what I'm doing now, I've never been a brewer, you know,

00:09:02.280 I'm doing craft beer. I've never done it before. I didn't grow up. My dad didn't grow up in it. I've

00:09:06.620 never been around it in my life. It's hard. And so it's almost like that equal resistance has an

00:09:13.660 equal payback. And yeah. Okay. It's nice when the market aligns, the universe gives you the perfect

00:09:21.920 timing. That definitely feels good because you work hard, but it doesn't really drive you.

00:09:29.520 It feels good. Like, Oh, someone recognized like, Hey, this is good timing. And you seem to come along

00:09:35.200 and you seem to be smart to recognize a market opportunity. That's not really why you're doing

00:09:39.880 it. You're doing it because you're trying to like solve your like problem solving down to like

00:09:44.940 the millionth degree. And that's what I like. And that's where that struggle is. That's where

00:09:51.100 Cam comes in. He like, he loves the struggle. So like, it's been hard for you. We talked about like,

00:09:58.000 maybe membership wasn't where you wanted it to be, or maybe you were getting the wrong people or

00:10:03.000 it's like, yeah, those are problems to solve. You know, that to me is fun. I like that.

00:10:10.820 Yeah. Well, I appreciate that perspective. Cause I think what most people do is they see a problem

00:10:15.560 as, as solely an obstacle and let's, let's be real. It is an obstacle, right? It is something,

00:10:21.760 but an obstacle is meant, it's like a hurdle, right? Like it isn't, it's meant to be overcome.

00:10:26.420 You put those hurdles so you can jump over them and see how good you are at jumping over them.

00:10:31.360 Yep. So, um, while we were at Under Armour, I did, I ran the footwear division and, and to like build

00:10:38.000 some camaraderie sometimes a couple of the guys came out with this idea is like, let's get the

00:10:42.620 whole footwear group to do a Tough Mudder. And that was back in the day when Tough Mudders were kind of

00:10:47.380 like really popular. So when you say the obstacles, we did these Tough Mudders, you know, I'm not really

00:10:53.380 a great runner anymore, you know? So I think they're like 13, 14 miles, but they got a lot of obstacles

00:10:58.480 and are fun and it's hard. Right. Right. Did we get to the wall, this really cool wall

00:11:05.120 and go around it? No, I signed up for the Tough Mudder, but I don't, I don't really, I'm not going

00:11:13.700 to do this wall, you know, like fuck that wall. It's really big, man. And when I was really heavy

00:11:20.040 on Instagram, I posted a picture of a guy who's missing one leg and one arm who climbed the wall

00:11:26.220 a Tough Mudder. I think you may have seen it. Yeah. And, uh, I know a lot of people probably

00:11:31.120 watching this know who that guy's is. He's bad-ass, but in life, do you go around the

00:11:36.000 obstacles? No. You go right at them and you go over them and you know what? A couple of buddies

00:11:43.760 with me, they didn't get over the wall the first time they failed and they ran back and they ran at

00:11:51.180 it again. And I saw it and I put my arm down so they could get it. And like, we got over the wall.

00:11:57.240 Right. So it's like, sometimes you actually can't get over it. Sometimes you need people.

00:12:03.280 Sometimes you need some knowledge. Maybe you need new technology. Maybe you need help, support. So,

00:12:10.080 but to me, you never go around the wall. Yeah. You still deal with, I mean, what, look,

00:12:15.460 what value is there if you, we'll just take it on this analogy of the Tough Mudder.

00:12:21.560 So you finish the race and you get to the finish line and they give you your little medal,

00:12:26.160 but isn't it cheapened? Oh yeah, dude. It's worthless. I mean, some people would probably

00:12:31.000 think they actually did it, but like, I look at it and I'm like, that means less than what it could

00:12:36.440 have meant. I would have rather sat there all fucking day at that wall and it got dark and they

00:12:42.540 came and said, I failed the race, but I never went around that wall. And they're like, what did

00:12:47.480 Kip do? Dude, he stood at that wall for like 16 hours. He couldn't get over it. Yeah. Right.

00:12:54.820 That's the point. I get better, improve. Yeah. That's what I think. But you know what? People

00:13:01.360 want the easy path. You know, they're, they're, they're always looking for the easy route. They want

00:13:05.400 the result without the effort. And I've talked about it in the context of like the natural man,

00:13:10.220 right? We're lazy. We're immediate gratification. We'll lie. We'll cheat. We'll steal.

00:13:16.060 Yeah. Well, I, I want, I know that you've, you, we've talked about this before and, and we've

00:13:20.620 talked about a product of your society and we've talked about when you grow up in certain environments.

00:13:25.780 And I disagree with you on that a little bit. And what I, what I, what I would say is, is we are a

00:13:31.760 product of the comfort that the society that we're in has propagated.

00:13:37.940 We are in a consumer society. We are in a consumerism mentality, buy things to help me be comfort,

00:13:47.440 have things that make me feel good about myself. So is it the, or is it really man's natural

00:13:55.020 predisposition or is it really this phase that man is in with this consumer society?

00:14:03.380 So let's rewind just a hundred years, 150 years. I mean, in the scheme of things,

00:14:12.620 dinosaurs were 280 million years ago. We're only talking a hundred years ago. Was the prevalence

00:14:18.440 of laziness and comfort as high it is today? I don't think it was.

00:14:23.460 No, because I think the, the problems were much greater than they are today, right? Like

00:14:31.220 your environment was different.

00:14:34.520 Totally. Yeah. Because now, I mean, we talk about tough mutters, we have to manufacture hardship.

00:14:40.380 Yeah. Right.

00:14:41.400 Like we have to make shit up to worry about because we don't have enough real things to worry about.

00:14:45.200 Like, it's cause we're, everything's handed to us.

00:14:47.780 That's what I'm saying. Yeah. So, so I, I agree. I agree with what you're saying. And I'm kind of

00:14:52.880 rethinking this now. Cause if, if you have to stay alive, like your natural man, isn't going to be

00:14:58.520 like, nope, don't want to make that fire. Nope. Don't want to go hunt that woolly mammoth. Like

00:15:02.380 you're going to get your ass out there and do it.

00:15:04.460 That's what I'm talking about. And so I think the, I think there's like some sort of evolution

00:15:09.060 left turn in Albuquerque that we're going through with consumer consumerism. And I don't believe

00:15:16.660 it's a positive thing for man. I don't think it's a positive thing for mother earth. Um,

00:15:21.860 so, you know, I think we're waking up to that, but it's really slow. It's really slow. And you see

00:15:28.200 people like Goggins and Cam and listen to all these people that Rogan has. And you, there's like this

00:15:34.220 edge of people that are choosing a different path and you know, you're starting something hard and

00:15:40.140 you're pushing yourself. And, but honestly, those percentages of the population are small.

00:15:45.840 So like we're at the beginning stage of like revitalizing what, whether it's to be a man

00:15:53.960 or whether it's to be a human or whether it is to what it's to live on mother earth. We can't just

00:15:59.380 consume mother earth. She won't be here. How does, how does the brewery fall into this though? Cause

00:16:05.220 you know, you're talking about consumerism, you're talking about capitalism, and then you juxtapose that

00:16:09.960 with, you know, mother nature and, and our responsibility and obligation. So like, where

00:16:14.860 is the balance between, okay, well I'm, I'm, I'm of this world. Like I'm going to consume,

00:16:22.460 obviously I'm going to produce things that are going to be valuable to other people. And then

00:16:27.400 balancing that with this other side of, of things that you're talking about.

00:16:30.780 Yeah, no, I think it's a good point. I mean, you know, for, for me specifically,

00:16:34.820 I'm a realist, like, I'm not going to sit here and like tell you the world's going to revolt back

00:16:38.880 to like Neanderthal living. Sure. And you know, I have kids and I want to raise my kids. And

00:16:44.680 what I chose with the brewery, big truck brewery is we grew hops for four and a half years.

00:16:53.400 Right. We're going to use all our own ingredients to give flavor and taste. So we're trying to

00:17:00.480 vertically control what goes into our products and not propagate this idea that, you know,

00:17:08.740 oh, we're just going to sell a bunch of beer and we're going to order and like hops can ship, ship

00:17:13.360 to our door the next day. And we can change hops all the time and we can do whatever. Like

00:17:18.860 we have 17,000 plants. We're cultivating a farm in a new way using technology. We have a,

00:17:26.460 a high intensity irrigation system. We have a very complex trellis. So I'm like using the

00:17:32.340 latest thinking to try to get the ground to provide a really quality product. Now we're

00:17:37.840 testing growing barley. We think we're going to have like our own barley, malted barley into our

00:17:45.260 products too. So like, it's more about controlling and not just being of the consumerism that I'm just

00:17:52.600 trying to like mass produce some beer so I can sell some beer. And you know what? I'm not a big

00:17:57.720 drinker and I didn't drink for a long, long time. I'll have one or two beers now. I want to show the

00:18:04.060 craft. It is really cool. And it's been around a long, long time. And there's actually a lot of

00:18:11.760 beneficial things. Hops can provide, beer can provide in terms of health. If you're drinking too

00:18:19.280 many, that ain't good. If you're drinking too much of anything, that ain't good. If all you do is

00:18:24.440 drink orange juice, that ain't good. So I'm a big proponent of be healthy, moderate, work your ass

00:18:32.800 off. Like I'm talking about having like a beer after I worked out in the evening, like I'm not

00:18:39.320 running a bar. Right. But you're right. Mother earth can always sustain a certain thing. And so I'm like

00:18:45.120 walking the line of consumerism, but I'm trying to do it in a way that I show my kids a craft,

00:18:51.000 but I showing them from beginning to end by growing the hops and brewing the beer.

00:18:56.920 So is that my way of justifying it? Yeah. Maybe a little bit.

00:19:01.720 I don't know if it's, you know, you say justification as, as with like a negative

00:19:06.140 connotation. I don't think that's the case. You know, I think, and this is what I don't think a lot

00:19:10.880 of people understand is that you being a capitalist, for example, and believing in production and

00:19:17.840 believing in the economy, you know, it, it, it doesn't have to be at odds with the other things

00:19:22.680 that you believe you can find a way to give back. Like I think about, uh, what you're doing and you

00:19:28.980 think about farming and you think about working the land and you think this is what men did with

00:19:33.400 their boys and girls 150 years ago. You think about getting your kids involved. You think about

00:19:38.320 getting community members involved. You think about, uh, hiring people so that they can put food

00:19:44.160 on their family's table. Like these things are, are correlated. They can help each other. The

00:19:48.780 missions aren't at odds with each other. And I think a lot of people believe they are.

00:19:52.920 Now. Yeah. I think you said that. Well, I mean, it's a struggle, right? You know, it's like we live

00:19:58.640 in a world where we just have to recognize this is where we're at. And so how do we optimize it?

00:20:04.040 Um, but we still are driven by these like grandiose beliefs and they're, they, sometimes they're at

00:20:10.720 war with where society's at, man. Oh, quite often. Absolutely. I think, I think being a part of the

00:20:18.300 land and having a surreal experience to understand how to cultivate, you know, cam talks about, you know,

00:20:25.500 uh, putting food on the table with the animals that he takes. Um, it can happen in a lot of ways

00:20:32.180 like that. And I think people that are disconnected to that concept, it's really hard to have this

00:20:37.600 conversation with them. It's, it's hard for people to, yeah, no, I mean, let's, let's take

00:20:44.420 hunting. Even it's hard for people to reconcile. For example, you say mother earth, mother nature

00:20:51.060 with a sense of responsibility and admiration. That's what I hear in your voice. And I know we've

00:20:55.980 had conversations about this. So I know that about you, it would, it would be hard for somebody

00:21:00.880 who didn't understand or wasn't immersed to some degree to reconcile that thought with,

00:21:08.040 I'm going to go kill a deer or I'm going to go kill a bear. It's just hard for people to wrap

00:21:12.980 their heads around. How can you care about mother nature when you just killed that animal?

00:21:17.560 They don't see the entire story. And so I've, you know, I've struggled with this talking with

00:21:22.680 friends and family that don't come from my background or don't actually understand some of the

00:21:26.900 things that you and I are discussing. And so I've had to like figure out how to have this

00:21:30.600 conversation without getting angry or frustrated or, or, or really just try to pull out what they

00:21:35.920 think. And so that they, they see me listening to them and in turn, they'll listen to me. And,

00:21:42.460 you know, I've, I've approached it differently lately, uh, specifically at hunting. You know,

00:21:46.960 I can talk about hunting all the time is really we're in a world where we're, we have to manage our

00:21:56.040 health. We're not, we don't wake up at a cave and we're going to be fit because we have barely any

00:22:01.100 food and we're going to have to run 10 miles. So we manage our health. We have to manage our

00:22:05.960 education. We have to constantly give ourselves more education to stimulate our brain, to learn more.

00:22:12.780 We have to, we have to manage that. It's an active, you have to manage wildlife. We're not

00:22:19.460 here anymore on this earth. We cover a significant part of the world. You cannot just say, we'll let

00:22:29.000 them see how they do. Like you, there has to be a management. Now, if you decided not to manage,

00:22:35.760 then you're going to have to live with the consequences and the consequences could be

00:22:39.780 overpopulation. It could be death. It could be injury. You could have whole species that go extinct

00:22:44.720 or whole species that explode. And so I try to get them to understand management. And I try to

00:22:50.740 talk to people about what are they managing in their life or in their work or in their family

00:22:57.260 actively, and then give them example when they're not managing something well. And look what happens.

00:23:03.820 Look what happens when you don't manage your freaking weight. Look what happens when you don't

00:23:07.340 manage your drinking. So wildlife, specifically in North America, but also places like Africa,

00:23:14.500 um, Europe, they've done well only when management is in place. Now, Hey, 200 years ago, 300 years ago,

00:23:24.740 like they didn't need that. It was the natural selection of the world. And the footprint that

00:23:29.920 man had was a hundred times less than we have now. Yeah. I mean, well, but even take that even

00:23:36.580 take what a hundred, 150 years ago. And you look at the bison of North American planes and that wasn't

00:23:41.820 managed well. And look what happened there. I mean, we almost lost that species altogether because it

00:23:46.340 wasn't managed well. No, it's, it's a, I'm a, I was born in Utah and like, I feel like I have like

00:23:52.860 the West in my blood. And so I did a lot of studying and research and just to understand how that all

00:24:00.140 happened. And it was consumerism, dude. Yep. Yeah. Good point. Yeah, exactly.

00:24:05.640 It was consumerism, but it was like a, not a healthy consumerism. And you had a whole population

00:24:11.340 on the East coast that was stuck in horrific conditions in cities, uh, you know, doing all

00:24:19.640 kinds of industrialization and these products and goods and services coming from the West,

00:24:25.920 specifically products coming from the Buffalo, meat, hides, bones, carvings, sinew, fricking everything.

00:24:34.540 It was consumers and they're buying it up. Yeah. You know, but yeah, you're right. Unmanaged.

00:24:41.060 Where'd that get us? I mean, that's a beautiful animal. It'd be nice to see a, like just a whole

00:24:46.040 part of the United States that had wild. Oh man. Have you read the awesome art? The undaunted courage.

00:24:53.040 I haven't read it. Oh yeah. It's a good one. It's a, it's a Lewis and Clark's expedition across the

00:24:58.680 United States, uh, to get kind of the Oregon trail and then finally make it to the Pacific,

00:25:02.960 but it's documented through stories of people that came in contact with them.

00:25:08.840 And so you reading a bunch of stories from ship captains, from trappers, from priests,

00:25:16.020 you know, of when they met Lewis and Clark and where they were and what was happening. And then

00:25:21.280 a lot of journal entries from both of those two. It's, if anybody likes to understand the history of

00:25:27.140 the United States, wildlife, uh, biology, it's a book that is like, to me, it was gripping.

00:25:33.480 It's pretty cool. You'll have to check it out. I actually just, uh, started reading this book again.

00:25:38.180 Have you read this endurance? Oh yeah, for sure. Dude, this book is unbelievable. I started reading

00:25:43.720 it again and it actually ties into what you're saying. Cause I look at these men, I think there

00:25:48.100 was 28 of them. And I look at what these men went through and I look at Ernest Shackleton and the

00:25:54.760 captain Frank, I can't remember his last name. And you're talking about management. I use the term

00:26:02.380 stewardship, right? Like you have to be a good steward over your resources and what you have,

00:26:06.540 but that doesn't mean that it's not going to be painful. Like there's elements of stewardship,

00:26:12.540 whether you're trying to conserve natural resources and you happen to hunt, there's,

00:26:17.740 there's a little bit of pain every time you kill an animal, right? Like, and it should be that you,

00:26:21.660 this shouldn't be like, you shouldn't take pleasure in the death of an animal right now.

00:26:26.680 You, you enjoy the process. You enjoy the harvest. Sometimes if you're go ahead, it's a poacher.

00:26:33.920 That's a poacher. That's, that's a different type of feeling. People just run around,

00:26:38.340 shoot things for a high. That's not any different than drinking too much.

00:26:42.540 Alcohol, drugs, you know, there's like a lot of ways people get highs and yeah,

00:26:48.240 I don't enjoy that first moment of like gutting an animal. Like I don't,

00:26:53.760 but what drives me is I got to prepare that meat quickly and efficiently, you know?

00:27:00.540 But yeah, no, that's an interesting one. Those books too, around a sacrifice,

00:27:07.040 you know, like if you're not willing to make daily sacrifices,

00:27:11.420 whether it's managing how much food you have to eat so you can last a long time,

00:27:17.680 we don't really have those problems. But so the consumers can give us the comfort.

00:27:22.520 And so the sacrifice is very low compared to maybe what it was a long time ago.

00:27:28.120 And so you just don't have an appreciation for when a sacrifice comes along. Are you willing to do it?

00:27:34.300 Can you be mentally strong enough to handle it? And how long is the sacrifice going to last?

00:27:39.880 Like, Oh, I can sacrifice for a little bit, but I hope only a couple hours. How about a couple of years, motherfucker?

00:27:45.340 Right, right. These guys were on the ice for 18 months. I mean, they, they quite literally,

00:27:51.340 they had to kill their dogs and their dogs weren't just working dogs. Their dogs were their companions.

00:27:56.740 Oh, yeah, they had to kill and eat their dogs. Like, talk about sacrifice, you know, to stay alive.

00:28:02.800 Like, what do we have to sacrifice? Nothing.

00:28:06.040 Yeah, my dad's a Vietnam vet. And he has a very interesting way of living. He has a very interesting

00:28:12.480 way of being okay with whatever happens. And you know, I find that very intriguing about him. I love

00:28:19.380 him for it. It's something that I've learned how to let go of things, how to just be okay.

00:28:23.680 Yeah, it's because he was in war. Right, right. Exactly. He's like, he's like, this shit's not

00:28:31.060 that important. That's how I felt when I came back from, from Iraq. And I wasn't probably nearly to

00:28:37.280 the degree that your father was, but like, I came back and I would see people and I always say, you

00:28:41.200 know, that that would get upset at the 16 year old who got their McDonald's food order wrong. And

00:28:45.240 I'm like, what the hell are you complaining about, dude? Like, so you got pickles on your burger,

00:28:49.220 peel your pickles off and, and, and eat the burger. Like, shut the hell up. It was

00:28:53.580 so, and now I've learned to be a little bit more gracious. Right. But right when I got back,

00:28:59.080 I was so frustrated with the bullshit that people were worried about.

00:29:03.280 It's interesting. You said you need to learn to be more gracious. Do you need to learn to

00:29:07.560 be more gracious? Or are you just dumbing yourself down for people that need comfort?

00:29:12.480 I think it could go both ways. And I think it depends on, on the motive and the relationship

00:29:17.360 because the way that, look, I don't know what somebody's, well, not only that, but I don't,

00:29:24.060 I don't know what people are experiencing. Like what's hard for me is different than what's hard

00:29:28.000 for somebody else. And in a lot of ways I might be tougher than somebody else. And in a lot of ways

00:29:33.900 I might be weaker than somebody else. Like maybe I'm physically tougher than the single mother who's,

00:29:38.840 you know, never worked a day in her life, but maybe I'm weaker in that I couldn't raise a child

00:29:43.040 on my own and go through what that single mother potentially went through. So I think it's okay

00:29:47.900 to hold people to high expectations, but because you don't want to, you don't want to weaken them

00:29:53.300 or assume that they're weak. But I also think some, some grace and just some empathetic thinking is

00:30:00.180 probably pretty important. Yeah. It's hard sometimes, man. You just want to shake people.

00:30:05.820 Right. Cause you see it and you know what they're capable of, right? Like I see people,

00:30:11.440 I go to the gas station for example, and I see people stocking up on beer and cigarettes and

00:30:16.040 buying lottery tickets. And I'm like, dude, like stop. You know, there's $40 down the drain right

00:30:23.000 there. Let me show you what to do instead of that. But again, I don't, I don't know. I don't know

00:30:28.140 their situation. All I can do is worry about me. Yeah. It's interesting. Uh, you know, because

00:30:34.280 I think with order of man or with other people that have a more public facing, uh, you know,

00:30:43.500 articulation of their beliefs and what they're, what trying to help people, basically try to lead

00:30:49.320 more in the public eye. You know, I was at Under Armour for 21 years and I had lots of people around

00:30:55.360 me. I had some great people and I worked with people. I will definitely say that for, um,

00:31:01.480 now I'm, I'm less about leading other people. I'm like a little bit, uh, gun shy to it.

00:31:11.460 You know, what, what makes you say that? Why do you, why do you feel that way?

00:31:16.600 Yeah. You know, I just, I was, I did it for many, many years. I poured my heart into it and

00:31:22.840 I don't know, it's going to sound really rude or whatever. I'm like, only the strong survive.

00:31:28.800 If they can't motivate themselves, it ain't my job.

00:31:31.480 So yeah, I understand. So here's, here's my perspective of you, Kip, just, just from the

00:31:38.380 outside looking in and our little bit of a, of a relationship that we've had over the past couple

00:31:42.180 of years, like you, you do lead, right? And so maybe you're not as, as directly influential for

00:31:48.580 those individuals as, as you once were, cause you're not immersed in it, but you do lead from

00:31:54.340 a different perspective. And you've led me, you know, we've had conversations where you've shared

00:31:59.120 insights I've never considered before. Uh, when I see what you're doing and how you're living your

00:32:04.160 life and how you're following something that you believe in and, and taking risks, that to me is

00:32:09.560 leadership. It may not be direct, but the influence you have is there and it is present. It's just a

00:32:15.240 different way of doing it than maybe you were doing it in the past.

00:32:17.940 Yeah, that's fair. I mean, yeah, I guess it's all by example or, and, you know, so I guess it's the,

00:32:24.940 it's the shouting from the mountaintops come along with me, you know, that I've, I've, I've like,

00:32:32.380 I've become a little bit jaded to that. Um, and so my circle got small, really small and even smaller.

00:32:40.560 Yeah. And, and I'm okay with that. I'm like, yeah, you know, and then when, you know, when I do

00:32:48.180 connect with people who I think are authentic, I seem to have a, a better time connecting with them

00:32:54.320 because I'm not, I'm not maintaining, uh, this need to have a bunch of people around me following

00:33:02.500 what I'm doing. I just, it's not important to me anymore. So it's a little bit of a balance there.

00:33:08.080 Yeah. I think what you've done is you've found a way to focus on the things that you care about.

00:33:15.860 And, and I'm not saying that in a way that's, you're being selfish. I'm not saying that I'm

00:33:19.280 just saying you found something that's important to you and you've figured out a way for people to

00:33:26.200 qualify themselves. So like, for example, if you're beating your head against the wall,

00:33:30.980 trying to drag somebody along on this journey, and they're just not interested in going,

00:33:34.240 that is a miserable, miserable experience. If on the other hand, you're saying, Hey,

00:33:39.440 here's what I'm doing. Here's what I'm passionate about. Here's what I'm excited about. And if you

00:33:44.540 want to come, like, let's, let's do it. Like come with me. And if not, that's fine. Just stay over

00:33:51.360 there. And I think that's the point, even where I'm feeling like I am is like, I don't, I don't have

00:33:55.980 a need to like drag you along. If you want to go on the journey, let's do it together. And I'm going

00:34:00.400 to show you what's worked for me and what hasn't worked. And if you're not interested, that's cool

00:34:04.740 too. No judgment, live your life. And I hope, I hope the best for you. I really do. I hope the best

00:34:10.100 for you. Yeah. I think, uh, it's hard sometimes when you, um, you know, people just don't know what

00:34:17.960 they want, you know, and I, those people too, I just, I don't have time for them. You know, like

00:34:25.600 I'm, I'm, I'm jaded, like figure, figure it out, man. Like, it's not my job to help you figure it

00:34:33.520 out. It's not all that. I don't think it's all that complex to be honest with you. I think

00:34:38.080 because of the comfort in the society we're living in, we tend to make things more complex

00:34:43.360 than they need to be. But have you always known what you want to pursue and chase? Or have there

00:34:48.200 been times where you're like, I don't know what the hell I'm doing? Yeah. So I, you know, I suffer

00:34:53.440 from dyslexia, so I tend to learn on a little bit of a different track than most people. So early in

00:35:01.040 life, the way I learned was a little bit different. And so it's visual and it's experiential. And so what I

00:35:07.500 do is I dive into something and, and if I don't like it, or it doesn't fit with who I am, I self

00:35:15.280 correct. I'll give you a good example of that. I was, you know, I graduated, I played lacrosse at

00:35:20.620 Maryland. You know, I feel like my dad was in the military. My brother was in the military. My stepfather

00:35:26.280 was in the military. I was like, I want to be in that military world, but I want to do it my way. So I started

00:35:32.400 applying to the FBI, the CIA, the border patrol, the NIS, I, um, a local sheriff's office. I applied

00:35:39.980 to all kinds of places and I started like taking some tests, some exams. I got my top secret security

00:35:47.040 clearance. I got a, uh, unarmed security job in a CIA building just to get in the know. And

00:35:55.400 I immersed myself through experience in that field. I didn't like it.

00:36:03.540 I thought, I thought there was a lot of ego. I thought there was a lot of control.

00:36:08.940 I thought there was a lot of people that were in there for the wrong reasons. And again, I had a

00:36:14.120 very limited exposure to it, but the people I did got exposed to turned me off. So I self-corrected.

00:36:20.300 And that's when I met my partner, Kevin Plank at Under Armour. And I just went that direction

00:36:26.040 instead. So I learned through this experiential. Now, you know, am I summarizing that whole field

00:36:32.280 as being egotistical or whatever? I'm not. I'm just saying my experience in the early days

00:36:38.060 wasn't healthy and it was, didn't fit me. So I changed. So yeah, that's kind of how I get into

00:36:44.380 something. And I'm like, eh, self-awareness is a pretty, is a pretty good thing. Um, so I didn't

00:36:51.200 really know what I wanted to do, but I know it didn't feel good.

00:36:55.200 Men just got to hit the pause on the conversation real quick. Uh, whatever your battle is,

00:36:58.920 you cannot possibly win. Understand that you cannot possibly win unless you have a clear

00:37:04.300 and effective strategy for securing victory. Now, most men, they go at life with a shotgun

00:37:10.260 approach, shooting at everything they see, uh, no real method or system for ensuring that they

00:37:14.500 even hit the target that they're after. So whether you're trying to salvage your marriage,

00:37:19.220 lead your wife and your children, well, uh, lose that spare tire around the midsection,

00:37:23.660 compete in an Ironman, uh, start a new business, secure a promotion, or just generally just trying

00:37:29.320 to improve yourself and your life in some way. The 30 days to battle ready program has definitely got

00:37:34.500 you covered. Uh, over the course of 30 days, you're going to work through four phases to develop

00:37:39.360 your own battle plan so that you can attack life in whatever way you see fit and actually

00:37:44.120 produce the results that you're after actually produce the results you're after. That is the

00:37:48.920 bottom line. That's what we want you to accomplish guys. Thousands of men have gone through this free

00:37:53.560 program. And I think if you haven't done it yet, it's time for you to go through it as well.

00:37:57.560 And of course, make yourself battle ready for whatever life has to throw at you. You can check it out

00:38:02.160 and sign up at order of man.com slash battle ready again, order of man.com slash battle ready.

00:38:08.020 Do that after the conversation for now. I'll finish things up with Kip.

00:38:12.440 Well, you say self-awareness. I think that's good, but also courage. And I don't know if you would,

00:38:17.020 if you would describe it as that, but I think there's a lot of people who know they aren't

00:38:20.480 satisfied with the path they're on. Like, like you were right. Like I don't like this. It doesn't

00:38:25.680 feel good. It doesn't feel right. And yet they don't have the courage to pursue something different.

00:38:31.580 They just won't go do it because they've got the golden handcuffs or they've got the career

00:38:35.980 or the pension or the comfort or the mortgage. And so they're like, I, I got to stay here.

00:38:41.720 And then they're miserable for 40 years. Yeah. I don't, I'm, whether it's a gift or whether

00:38:46.660 it's a flaw, you know, whether it was my upbringing or whether it's my DNA, I just,

00:38:52.180 I don't operate that way. I don't, I don't care. Like I'll, I just don't care. I'm just gonna,

00:38:57.420 I'm not worried about the risk. I don't know why that's a little bit of a flaw

00:39:01.780 because it could have a lot of bad consequences. I just, I have a, I'm such an independent person.

00:39:08.800 My dad left me when I was young. My parents got divorced. We moved in a military family.

00:39:14.260 Every two years we lived on a new base. Every two years I went to four different high schools.

00:39:19.000 Like I don't ever, I, I don't question myself. I don't have this like huge, I've had doubt in my

00:39:27.320 life. And I would say as I get older, closer to 50, I'm 47 now turning 48 in October. I would say

00:39:33.800 that doubt has crept more in now, later in life than it did early in life.

00:39:40.020 Is that because you've experienced failure? Is that, that's what I was going to say. Like

00:39:44.980 you've experienced it. Right. And so it's like, Oh, that hurts. Yeah. I don't want to do that again.

00:39:49.160 Yeah. That's it, man. You only, you're only as good as what you remember. And the people that can

00:39:54.640 just forget that. And for many, many years, I was just this, I never looked back and I don't really

00:40:00.620 look back well now, but I definitely look back more than I did when I was younger. And, and so I look

00:40:07.280 back, I'm like, ah, don't do that Kip. Or, ah, maybe that's not the right way. And so I doubt myself

00:40:13.480 more. Hmm. And that's something you have to manage. And I, there's some healthy things there

00:40:19.000 because I do have two small kids, you know, I I'm married. Um, you know, I have a business. So,

00:40:25.500 you know, some of the risk things I need to consider, I have employees. So, you know,

00:40:32.860 do you have to consider some of those things? Yeah. I think it's been a bit, you talk about,

00:40:37.880 it's, it's, it's a, I can't remember the term you use, but I think the attitude that you have

00:40:42.300 of, of not having to look back on that so much and not doubting yourself is probably a bit of a

00:40:46.880 blessing and a curse. You know, some great things in your life would probably come from it. And

00:40:50.400 some pain that could have been avoided has probably come from it too. So you got to like

00:40:54.760 weigh the pros and the cons. Like we don't make the decision in the vacuum and think that, Hey,

00:40:58.220 if we make the right decision, everything will be perfect. It's like, no, even if you make the

00:41:03.000 right decision, stuff is still going to suck occasionally. Oh yeah. It always sucks. I mean,

00:41:08.800 I've, you know, just trying to start a business right now. I mean, I started this concept like

00:41:14.600 while I was growing hops for three and a half, four years. And I'm like, we need to get, we need

00:41:18.420 to get into brewing. I want to see the whole thing come together. And I like buy all this like really

00:41:23.880 automated, amazing equipment. I build this cool facility and fricking COVID hits. Who wants to go to,

00:41:31.240 well, who wants to go to a tap room and get a beer crowded with a bunch of people right now?

00:41:36.460 So yeah, I had to adjust that business model. So I shifted my focus to outdoor seating. I shifted my

00:41:41.900 focus to, uh, you know, maybe take out and delivery. Yeah. I mean, I got screwed, man. I like trying to

00:41:48.500 open a brewery right in the middle of this. It's, it's been not good, dude. Not good at all. Like bad.

00:41:56.120 Yeah. Yeah. I bet. I mean, I can't imagine. Cause I've seen, I've followed your journey obviously in,

00:42:00.680 and, and stay connected with you and see what you guys are building and putting together and,

00:42:04.400 and the place coming together and the custom parts. And like, I, I, I see the investment,

00:42:10.140 you know, the financial investment, the time commitment, the mental and emotional energy.

00:42:16.320 I see the investment. And then you have outside circumstances beyond your control. It's like,

00:42:21.900 damn, like, yeah, I got zero, I got zero revenue right now.

00:42:29.380 Zero revenue. You know, it's funny because people are like, Oh, you're, you know, you're going,

00:42:33.280 you're going overboard and you're making the place amazing, or you're doing all this custom stuff.

00:42:37.880 And I'm like, if I didn't have any goddamn money, I would have borrowed the money to do it this way

00:42:43.840 because I'm not only doing it one way. That's going to be the best that I could possibly think

00:42:49.180 about every detail in my mind. So I, I have a little bit of an argument. Sometimes people are

00:42:54.500 like, Oh, well, you can afford that. Yeah. I mean, I've had some success and I did work at a,

00:42:58.680 you know, corporation, a startup for 21 years. So yeah, I have a bank account that I can write

00:43:03.600 some checks for some things. I would have begged Bari and I would have borrowed all that money

00:43:10.000 to do it this way because this is the way to be successful.

00:43:13.320 Right. Yeah. But see, this is, this goes back to what we were saying earlier when,

00:43:18.520 when people discount it and that's what they're doing when they say, well, yeah,

00:43:22.080 you have a bank account. You were, you were a co-founder of Under Armour. You have this,

00:43:25.400 you, dude, I built that too. Like you sacrificed. I know your story.

00:43:31.280 We, like we made, we lost $17,000 the first year we were in business.

00:43:37.220 That it's not like somebody gave that to you. And this is the thing you talk about Cam.

00:43:41.260 Cause I know you're close friends with Cam is like his must be nice thing,

00:43:44.260 right? Like, Oh, it must be nice. Well, it's nice now,

00:43:47.160 but it wasn't nice for two decades while I was grinding my ass off trying to make

00:43:51.160 this work, neglecting my family, not being present and available as much as I wanted

00:43:55.560 to be. It wasn't nice then. It's sure nice now, but I had to work through that.

00:44:00.600 Besides his family and I'll make the statement.

00:44:03.680 And I know there's some people in his life that I'm not close with besides his

00:44:07.820 family. Um, because we signed him early on at Under Armour and he's the longest

00:44:14.320 Under Armour athlete still on the books today. I know his struggle better than

00:44:18.540 anybody. Yeah. And I wasn't that nice to Cam when we first had him.

00:44:24.000 Like I was the corporate executive, not really giving a shit about this little

00:44:28.900 dumb ass bow hunter who thinks he's going to change the world by running.

00:44:31.820 Hmm. Like, you know, like when we signed Cam back in the day, there was other

00:44:37.140 personalities that were bigger. Realtree road trips at the time was huge.

00:44:42.760 Yeah. Yeah. Right. And so like, you know, like, so I was part of his oppression.

00:44:51.380 I don't think people understand that about Cam and I's relationship.

00:44:55.480 That's interesting. I didn't know that.

00:44:56.980 I was his fucking oppressor. He wanted more sponsorship and he wanted to be in

00:45:02.160 the ads and he wanted to tell his story bigger and he wanted to be, you know, make

00:45:07.160 new products with us in this. And he just had this appetite to like win. And we were

00:45:11.720 like, nah, we're going this direction. And he loved it. He was like, he was like, all

00:45:20.880 right, I'm going to grind harder and look where we are now. I mean, he's probably the

00:45:25.260 biggest, if not one of the biggest hunting personality. Um, surely the biggest beast

00:45:31.060 of a hunter. No doubt. No doubt. Yeah. And then, and then, you know, all his connections

00:45:36.180 now and what he's doing and just, yeah, but I don't think people understand. I was his

00:45:41.020 oppressor. I was the corporate douche bag even in his story. Of course, over time, it

00:45:47.940 was hard. I started to hunt with him. I started to know who he was, get to know

00:45:53.000 him. Do you think you were the oppressor? Like, is that, is that, is that the right

00:45:58.040 word or is it just that it didn't align as much? Yeah, I'm sure in his mind for

00:46:02.680 sure. Oh fuck. Yeah. In his mind. That's interesting. That's the greatness about him.

00:46:09.600 Was I really his oppressor? No, I was just some dingleberry businessman trying to make

00:46:14.060 the best decisions and I wasn't that connected to the hunting world. So, but in his

00:46:19.060 mind, he was like, I was 100% the oppression of him and his story. So to be oppressed means

00:46:27.660 you must fight to get out. Or, or, or give in or surrender. Like those are the only two

00:46:34.960 choices. No, yeah, you can definitely surrender. That's an option. You know, it's interesting.

00:46:41.700 So I think I want to say at this point, we're, we're probably close to, we're probably close

00:46:49.060 to 300 podcast interviews and probably six or 700 total podcasts at this point. It's

00:46:55.380 amazing. It's crazy to think about. Um, but I'll tell you what, there's a lot of, a lot

00:47:01.100 of factors, but I'll tell you one factor that runs through every single successful person that

00:47:08.960 I've talked with, whether it's you, Cam, Jocko, Goggins, like the best of the best, the elite.

00:47:16.020 It seems to me that they all have a chip on their shoulder and not in like a negative destructive

00:47:22.680 way, but just enough to give them an edge and, and a competitive advantage that comes with it.

00:47:31.900 Yeah. Right. So if we're a product of our environment, I would say that if you look back

00:47:42.000 everybody's childhood, you're going to find some common denominators. I do not believe that chip

00:47:50.020 you're describing as a DNA that's placed in us, passed from DNA. The DNA is the size of my fingernails

00:47:58.280 and the, the, the, my shoe size and my hair color and the way my spine is shaped, my muscle

00:48:06.860 structure. That's DNA. The brain is a learning, absorbing energy of synapsis that it recreates

00:48:19.920 itself over and over through experiences and knowledge and through pain and suffering and joy

00:48:27.680 and desire and the brain. Some people's brain access whole other regions. Some people learn to

00:48:34.320 access multiple regions through teaching themselves. Some people are born with disabilities and access

00:48:40.680 things that we could never get because, so I believe that's a product of the, and if you,

00:48:45.320 if you did a book or a documentary on your top five podcast guys, Jocko, Goggins, Cam, Rogan,

00:48:54.080 maybe he hasn't been on the cast, but you know what I'm saying. Not yet. Not yet. A couple other

00:48:57.880 people. But you would find something in their childhood through the product of their environment

00:49:03.860 that helped create that chip that now they push to the top, right? The chip was created somewhere

00:49:11.660 and it was their ability to let it rise to the top and use it in a positive way.

00:49:17.860 Embrace it. Embrace it in a way, right? Rather than reject it. So, okay. So let's, let's, let's say

00:49:23.240 that it's not, it's not, uh, it's not your DNA. It's just your, you're a product of your experiences

00:49:31.080 to circle back to how we started. So then what is it that separates those people who go through

00:49:37.300 challenging and sometimes horrific situations? What is the difference between those who rise up

00:49:43.340 and use the chip as fuel to improve and those who surrender? A brilliant question, my friend,

00:49:49.880 a brilliant question. I think sometimes they see it in someone else. So not only did they experience

00:49:59.280 something, but they saw someone else rise, a coach, a mentor, a friend, a brother, um, uh, uh, another

00:50:07.420 Navy SEAL next to me. They see it, the eye in someone else. Sometimes they had to do it themselves.

00:50:15.180 Sometimes it literally is. They have no other fucking option, right? Sometimes they actually

00:50:25.400 didn't choose that option and they fucked their life up.

00:50:29.280 And now that crystallizes pain and discomfort that they never want to go back to. So they

00:50:37.920 choose the hard one again. Remember when I didn't choose, choose the hard one. Look where

00:50:42.520 that fucking got me. So I think it's a myriad of other people's experiences that you're close

00:50:48.400 in contact with. You know, I wouldn't say television, but some people can get it from other icons like

00:50:54.140 Jordan or things like that. And that happens. I think that's rare. I think it's usually someone in

00:50:58.560 your close relationship or there's an experience that's so meaningful to you and you either failed

00:51:06.780 or you did not, you failed or you succeeded. So I believe it's this myriad of choices and

00:51:13.160 experiences. I want to say like from the age seven to 15. And I've read a lot about that. The male

00:51:25.040 brain can continue to develop all the way into its early twenties. Female brains are usually a little

00:51:33.100 earlier. And I think that's again, DNA with just the way women are built. Right. And you see a lot

00:51:41.300 of young girls that are athletic and smart at a young age and cause they're just maturing faster.

00:51:46.820 So I think those critical years of seven to 13, something has to happen. If you just live in

00:51:54.580 suburbia and you just go to school and you just have great shit and eat fruit rollups and like,

00:52:01.580 it's kind of nice. And like your dad's this, your dad's my, so yeah, but you have a golden retriever.

00:52:08.020 It's like, I don't know, man. It ain't fucking good. It's not going to work out for you. So you better

00:52:14.560 go create something or your parents better recognize that they better put your shit in some uncomfortable

00:52:22.020 spots. I mean, let's talk about my kids. My kids are going to be the, the son of one of the

00:52:29.520 co-founders of Under Armour. How the fuck is that going to help them be hard? That is not 100% the

00:52:35.940 opposite. Yeah, man. I, did I lose you a kid? Oh no, you're there. No, you didn't lose me. My kids

00:52:44.820 are going to get there. I'm getting ready to speed dial my son and be like, are you doing pushups?

00:52:49.120 I think about that a lot. Cause I think about my kids, you know, like we, we, they're growing up in a

00:52:55.800 better economic situation than I grew up in. Sure. 100%. And, and I wasn't, and, and, and look at my

00:53:03.720 life as a kid, wasn't bad. I'm not saying that, but mine was economic economically. It wasn't to the

00:53:10.700 degree that I am and I'm better off for it as an adult. I'm better off for it because of that situation.

00:53:16.400 So I thought about this a lot with my kids. It's like, all right, am I making things too easy

00:53:22.380 on them? Which feels really good by the way, cause it's like, cool. I get to provide and give them a

00:53:27.900 better life than, than I had maybe potentially. But at the same time, like I might be hamstringing

00:53:32.860 them in a lot of ways. Yeah. So my, I have this really old doctor. He's a pediatrician. He's got,

00:53:38.720 he's like 86 years old and he's our pediatrician for my two, two boys. And he gave me this analogy

00:53:45.620 of how many viruses and sicknesses they get before the age of six is an indication on their

00:53:54.240 immunity system when they're an adult and how well they'll fight off things. Interesting. So

00:53:59.620 he was an old school doctor. He wouldn't give you antibiotics. He would be like, nah,

00:54:05.040 let's see how it goes. And that is, that's what we're talking about. That's what we're talking

00:54:10.980 about. You, the more you provide comfort and less stress, the worse they will be able to deal with

00:54:19.880 it later in life. It's a learned skill, man. It's a skill like woodwork. Like I can't make cabinets

00:54:30.760 because I've never spent time making cabinets. Right. And that's the only thing that it requires

00:54:35.320 is you spending time doing it. So you got to spend time being stressed at a young age.

00:54:41.640 Yeah. And so that's where love and compassion can come in, in a very interesting and odd way,

00:54:48.000 which is to push people past their comfort zone. But when they fail, you're there to love and be

00:54:55.180 compassionate, but you 100% want them to fail. That is a really interesting perspective. Cause

00:55:01.320 I think most people equate, let me make your life easier as love, right? That's what they think love

00:55:08.680 is. I'm going to make you comfortable. I want you to be happy. I want everything to be okay. No,

00:55:15.120 exactly. But I think that's what people interpreted it as. No, I think love is a very active and very

00:55:20.300 disciplined act that has a lot of, a lot of struggle in it, you know, but it's painful for

00:55:29.900 you too. Right. Like when I love my kids and I let them experience hardship, it love isn't like

00:55:37.000 bliss. It's actually painful for me as a father, because if I'm exposing them to even something as

00:55:42.720 simple as going to football practice when they don't have to, I'm like, oh man, like, I don't,

00:55:46.940 that's, that's uncomfortable for me. So love is not supposed to be bliss. It's, it's got some pain

00:55:52.700 rooted in it and some sacrifice. I mean, your own feelings, your own emotions. And so you go back to

00:55:59.280 where we started this conversation on all those people that you look up to or have been on your

00:56:03.380 podcast that you see these similarities. I, I, you know, I'm not an expert. I'm not a child

00:56:10.380 psychologist. I'm not, I'm not much actually. I'm a jack of a lot of things. Um, but the commonality

00:56:16.920 to me is so crystal clear of their childhood. And I say that because I have young boys. I say that

00:56:23.700 because I'm not a child anymore. Um, and so you have to like, really like ask yourself, where did

00:56:30.780 some of this come from? Like I'm a, I'm a big one. I like to like immerse myself in things when I get

00:56:37.340 involved in something. And if you're going to be involved in yourself, if you're going to manage

00:56:42.120 yourself back to this management, then you better ask yourself, where does some of those good things

00:56:48.140 of your personality come from? Where do some of those bad things come from? I mean, one of the bad

00:56:53.440 things for me coming out of my childhood is like, yeah, I moved a lot. I'm not really good at being,

00:56:59.340 um, staying connected with people. I have people that are like, you know, yeah, I was boys with

00:57:07.320 Kip and we like, you know, we played lacrosse and we were best buddies. And then like, he never talks

00:57:12.720 to me anymore. He made some money at Under Armour. Like he doesn't fucking care about me.

00:57:17.220 Yeah. They misinterpret it.

00:57:18.980 Yeah. So there's bad stuff that comes along with it.

00:57:22.580 Yeah. Well, I think it's about taking that and, and learning from it and growing from it,

00:57:27.600 not just letting it happen. And then it happened over and over and over again, like actually growing

00:57:32.140 because of the negative ramifications that come from it.

00:57:34.640 Yeah. I mean, it's a Pavlov's dog, right? Positive reinforcement, positive reinforcement

00:57:41.820 is really, really good. If it's coupled with a struggle or a sacrifice.

00:57:50.820 Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I agree because he, well, I think what you're touching on right now is this whole,

00:57:57.200 like, well, here's a prime example, the body positive movement where it's like, you're just

00:58:02.120 supposed to be blissfully happy with yourself because you didn't do anything in life and you're

00:58:06.640 40 pounds overweight and you should be excited and happy and satisfied with who you are. I'm like,

00:58:12.220 what, what kind of nonsense is that? But that is the, that is the lesson that's being taught

00:58:16.700 to just be satisfied with who you are. Yes. Is that an actual thing?

00:58:20.520 That's an actual thing. That's no joke. Dude, it's called the body positive movement. Think about

00:58:26.660 the dad bod, right? Like you've heard the dad bod, everybody's, Oh, the dad bod. It's like,

00:58:31.200 you shouldn't be happy with that. That's not a good thing, but this is what we do. We embrace,

00:58:37.540 I was going to say mediocrity, but it's even less than mediocrity.

00:58:41.180 I, it's so foreign to me. I don't even understand it.

00:58:46.660 That's good. That's a good thing. We, I hope that nobody listening or everybody listening to this

00:58:52.640 doesn't understand that and they cannot connect and resonate with that. It's disturbing, man. It

00:58:57.500 really is. You know, it's funny as I got some unhealthy lifestyle when I was traveling around

00:59:02.920 the world with Under Armour and doing all kinds of crazy stuff. And I was stressed and a little bit

00:59:07.600 overweight and I was definitely not fit. I mean, if I had to like go run a half marathon or a marathon,

00:59:14.580 I would have failed. If I would have just had to do like a regular CrossFit workout,

00:59:18.840 I wouldn't have been able to finish it. So you get there through, you know, I just didn't

00:59:24.460 prioritize it because I prioritized always being in the Under Armour mentality, which was business

00:59:30.940 oriented, not personal health oriented. And I learned later in life that I failed at some of

00:59:40.180 the things I was doing at Under Armour because I wasn't optimal. There's a direct correlation between

00:59:50.640 my physical and mental health and some of the bad business decisions, personnel decisions,

00:59:56.480 personal decisions that I made because I was not sharp. Oh yeah. I mean, millions of dollars.

01:00:07.220 People I had to fire, hire products I had to flush down the toilet because they were bad quality,

01:00:13.320 personal relationships gone because my mental and physical health was not where it needed to be.

01:00:20.700 So that's interesting. Yeah. You want to be great at business? Be fucking healthy. It's the number

01:00:26.720 one correlated to top CEOs for the longevity in their job. Most CEOs bounce around three years here,

01:00:33.540 four years here, five years here. They have high stress, bad health, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:00:38.120 The ones that stay at companies for 10 and 15 years and she make changes to industry,

01:00:44.420 they're healthy. Hmm. Yeah. That's an interesting correlation. I mean, you could definitely see how

01:00:50.720 that would not only be true, but you could see how it very easily fall by the wayside because you

01:00:55.380 don't think it's impacting you. In fact, it's counterintuitive. You think that if you take time off

01:01:02.440 for a hunt or take time off every morning to go work out and not be in the office an hour earlier

01:01:09.480 that you're neglecting your work and you're undermining your work efforts, you're undermining

01:01:13.800 it by not doing it. And I'm sure there's someone you can have on the podcast that knows the science

01:01:18.300 behind it, but the endorphins, the blood flow, all those things that are created in that moment

01:01:24.940 of physical and mental activity stimulate. I'm a pretty creative person. You know, when I think about

01:01:32.560 Kip and I saw a picture of myself, I would look at myself, I would say artist. Like that's how I think

01:01:38.660 of myself. I look at myself as an artist. I just don't have a typical canvas. I don't make pottery.

01:01:45.880 I don't like paint. So I think, you know, you get, you can't be optimal and be suboptimal on mental and

01:01:58.420 physical health. I can't be the best artist I can if I'm unhealthy mentally and physically.

01:02:07.280 Well, and this is what I tell guys all the time is like, I think you can be a good man, which,

01:02:14.380 which has more to do with morality, but I think you can be a good man and be out of shape. I think

01:02:18.320 that's true. I think, but I don't think that you can be good at being a man or at least optimal as a

01:02:26.080 father, a husband, a leader in your community, a business owner, if you're not in shape and people

01:02:32.060 say, well, you know, how could you say that? Because it's true. Like I know that when I was

01:02:36.440 50 pounds overweight, I was not as good of a husband and a father and leader in my community

01:02:42.140 as I am now. And I still have room to go. But if, if, if you think that you can optimize other

01:02:50.080 facets of your life, when your health is not in check or, you know, your, your business is not dialed

01:02:56.500 in, but you think your relationship is going to be like, that's not how this works. You got to be

01:03:00.140 dialed in across the board. So rewind to early childhood experiences that people grow up with

01:03:08.320 parents, close family, and they don't see physical activity as the nutrition for life.

01:03:15.640 It's not imprinted in them. My dad and mom, I'm named after an Olympic marathon runner,

01:03:23.160 Kipcho Kenya, the 1970 Olympics. My mom was a marathon runner. My dad was a marathon runner. My

01:03:29.240 dad was a hardcore, you know, Marine, obviously physical fitness is top and he's 75, 76. And my dad

01:03:37.540 is in great shape, great shape. And so that imprint early in life, childhood development to see people

01:03:45.180 close to you, people you look up to, people that struggle, people that love you and see something.

01:03:51.380 I mean, I remember being in Bermuda and watching my mom watch the, run the Bermudian marathon

01:03:56.040 and she barely made it. It was one of the hottest days for the Bermudian marathon and she barely made

01:04:03.000 it across the finish line. And my mom ran marathons. I mean, she was a good runner. She struggled

01:04:07.100 on this one and she like, I mean, I was sad. I didn't understand it.

01:04:15.180 That childhood imprint. I was in third grade, second grade, seven years, six, seven years old.

01:04:24.960 And you remember that what nearly 40 years later, that's not just like, Oh, well, you know,

01:04:30.520 my mom's on the elliptical. She ran a marathon and she looked like shit and she finished it. And to see

01:04:37.920 the jubilation and people come together and then see her recover and then see her do another one.

01:04:47.220 Yes. As a young man, your mom, bam, dude, physical fitness in my life forever. Like that seems like

01:04:55.560 a positive way to live. Okay. So let's rewind. You didn't have that.

01:04:59.420 Your dad's overweight. Your mom struggles with depression and weight. Um, there's no,

01:05:09.020 there's no physical fitness in the house. There's no personal gyms. There's no, uh, community,

01:05:14.940 uh, sisters, hikes, camps, uh, sports. And there's like, Hey, let's describe these

01:05:22.040 that exist. I'm not making this shit up. All right. So what are you like when you're 40 years old?

01:05:29.420 Yeah. You're going to be the same. I don't know though. You may be physically fit and amazing

01:05:35.480 cause it had a negative impact on you. But my point is it's, it's going to have a

01:05:42.300 impact somehow. Right. Right. You know, something, everything, everything's going to,

01:05:49.300 it's funny when people say, you know, I'm not influenced by certain things, right? Like I'm

01:05:53.360 not influenced by the people around me or I'm not influenced by that. It's like, dude, I mean,

01:05:58.500 well, you can take how much you guys spend an under armor on advertisements to get somebody's

01:06:03.720 eyeballs for 30 seconds and think about how much a company like yours was willing to invest in that.

01:06:08.240 And you're telling me that these people who invest millions upon millions of dollars to get

01:06:13.140 30 seconds of your attention. Don't understand that any little input that goes into your brain

01:06:18.320 is going to influence your purchasing decisions, your lifestyle decisions, your behavior.

01:06:23.080 I mean, unless you're, unless you're a Buddhist monk, I mean, come on, man, we're human.

01:06:28.300 Yeah. But no, look, Buddhist monks, who do they spend time with other Buddhist monks? So they stay

01:06:33.480 on track. Yeah. I hear you. They're not hanging out with hookers in Vegas.

01:06:38.380 No, not. And they won't be a Buddhist monk for long if that were the case.

01:06:42.300 Yeah. I think the product of the environment. So let's talk about order of man, because I'm super

01:06:46.520 proud of what you've done. Thank you, man. I'm impressed with the discipline and dedication to

01:06:52.460 continue to evolve it as you find roadblocks and continue to overcome things and refine what you

01:06:58.680 want. But you're creating an influencer model by getting like-minded people to have influence on each

01:07:08.600 other. And me, I need it too. I'm like, I need good guys around me because I will very easily

01:07:15.400 fall off a track and do all kinds of shit to my life that I know is not conducive to what I want

01:07:20.360 to create. So I need that in my own life. I'm the same way, dude. Why do you think I have like,

01:07:25.260 I have like three friends. I have a buddy named Mark Fry. I got Cam. I got my brother. I got three

01:07:32.040 people in my life, three men I call friends in my life. If someone else has listened to this and they

01:07:37.320 think they're like my best friend, sorry, newsflash, you're not. Because the standard for me is pretty

01:07:43.980 high. They're either like blood or badass. My brother's a badass, so I'll give him credit, but

01:07:54.280 he's blood first before badass. He's both. He checks both boxes.

01:08:00.320 I self-select, man. Like I self-select who I'm around. Like to like the most

01:08:07.320 severe way a human being can self-select. I mean, I'm friends with Pete. I select to

01:08:13.980 Pete. I select with Burt Soren at SorenX. Like, you know, those guys are friends, of

01:08:22.140 course, you know, they're not best friends, but they're good, good buddies and I respect

01:08:25.980 them. But I mean, I'm self-select hard because I know the influence it has on me.

01:08:32.480 I'm selfish.

01:08:37.840 Yeah, but you can also serve people that way too. Again, this comes back to the thing that we don't

01:08:42.880 make decisions in a vacuum. People look at selfishness to some degree and they think it's

01:08:46.760 negative. It's like, dude, if you become the best you possible, then what are you unlocking in other

01:08:52.180 people? Like if you weren't, if you weren't quote unquote selfish, would you be able to lead

01:08:58.220 Under Armour where it was? Would you have been able to start the brewery and invest in that and

01:09:03.780 hire people and influence the people who are around you? The answer is no, of course not. So

01:09:08.780 even selfishness to it within moderation, right? We talked about that serves other people. It can

01:09:16.680 serve other people.

01:09:18.580 So I've been blessed to be able to have a network of people to come across and so have you. And you

01:09:24.300 mentioned a few of these amazing people you've come across. And so like, how do I back away from

01:09:29.720 this conversation and think, and no disrespect, no judgment, but I was an executive at a fast

01:09:37.540 growth, high paced company. Let's just call it what it was. And now I'm starting something new

01:09:41.920 and amazing and it's going to be, it's going to be fun. You know, I'm not working at a Ford

01:09:48.340 dealership in Wausau, Wisconsin as the lead mechanic and I work seven days a week. That's

01:10:00.840 not me. Okay. So how do I back away from this conversation and how do I, how do I connect

01:10:06.860 with someone like that? Because I know their life and the factors in their life are much

01:10:13.520 different than the factors in my life. And I thought about that a lot because I look at myself

01:10:18.740 as a working man. I don't have a lot of good feelings of my success. I have a lot of negative

01:10:25.100 feelings about my success. I don't feel validated through my success. I don't like it. I'd like to

01:10:31.220 give it all away. And so I'm trying to constantly figure out how I connect with that person.

01:10:37.280 And the only way I can connect with that head mechanic in Wausau, Wisconsin at the Ford dealership

01:10:42.660 is showing that I'll grind the fuck out of anything.

01:10:47.680 Hmm. And you can do that wherever you are.

01:10:50.620 You want to work out? I'll work out. You want to hunt? I'll fucking kill shit.

01:10:54.140 You want to drag out animals? You need me to help dig a ditch in your yard? What do you need to do?

01:10:58.880 Change out your irrigation system? Yeah, I'll do that. What do you want me to do? String 17,000

01:11:03.640 plants by hand? Sure. I'll do that too. What do you want, man? How can I connect with you?

01:11:10.380 That's the only way, dude.

01:11:12.660 That is the only way that my circumstance and his circumstance can come together in an equal

01:11:19.600 mentality of discipline, grit, sweat, blood, is if I'm willing to dig a ditch in his yard.

01:11:28.420 I'm willing to help him drag out a buck I didn't kill. Go on the weekend and help him put 10 tree

01:11:35.360 stands up. Like, I got to grind it out, dude. It's the only way I can connect with him.

01:11:42.660 I can't tell you, and if there's anybody taking away from anything from this podcast,

01:11:47.200 one, about who you are, about how I am, I believe that's what you and I are trying to do,

01:11:53.260 is trying to connect with people on that level. Do we always do it right? No. Are we always successful

01:11:58.960 in our, you know, kind of way of going about it? Do we get dragged one way or the other occasionally?

01:12:04.780 Yeah. I mean, we do. Let's just call it. We're not perfect.

01:12:07.780 Of course. Right.

01:12:08.560 But I think that's what it is, man. I think that's the common denominator. It's like, oh,

01:12:15.240 I know Kip. Yeah. You know, um, yeah, I asked him if he could come over and help me do this thing.

01:12:20.820 And, you know, it kind of blew me off.

01:12:26.100 But this is not going to work.

01:12:28.680 Yeah. You got to be there. You got to be present. You got to be available. And it's that,

01:12:33.280 that work and, and just being supportive and being there for people that really connects and

01:12:36.960 binds people, I think, together.

01:12:38.080 And I think it's through, I think it's through fricking strife.

01:12:44.940 Yeah. Well, I think especially for men, I don't think it's exclusive to men, but I do think it's

01:12:50.880 especially for men is that we operate best when there's some sort of an enemy, right? There's some

01:12:58.660 sort of hurdle, like you were talking about earlier, or the wall, like, let's do this together,

01:13:03.920 right? There's gotta be contention. There has to be. Otherwise it's like, why are we doing this?

01:13:09.360 Why are we bonded together? I think it's cave mentality, man, because I don't think you could

01:13:13.940 have lived, uh, 10,000 years ago. If you didn't have a group of dudes with spears that you would

01:13:19.900 sleep in a warm cave and go out at night and fucking hunt and kill and come back and eat and

01:13:25.480 survive the next day to do it all again. Cause when you went out and did it by yourself, you died.

01:13:30.020 Yeah. You would be dead. Exactly. You'd be dead. So the way you need to connect with people

01:13:36.560 is to get sweaty, down, dirty, beaten, crushed, and, and then make it. I mean, yeah, if y'all

01:13:46.520 die, you die and you pick the bad activity. Um, you know, and you know, I hope people don't

01:13:53.320 do take it that extreme, but I think you gotta, like, you gotta bleed dude.

01:13:59.900 I also think there's a measurement of, uh, of, of testing other men in that capacity too.

01:14:06.640 Right. So are they going to be, can I do that? Are they strong enough to have my back?

01:14:12.400 And that's right. Is this person capable of standing with me in a dire situation? And if

01:14:18.480 he's not willing to get bloody, sweaty, dirty, then I know that he's going to bitch out when

01:14:24.080 shit really hits the fan for us.

01:14:27.320 So I made the knives, right?

01:14:30.160 Yes.

01:14:31.320 I made the knives. I always give a gift to everybody I hunt with. And so I make, I made

01:14:36.040 those knives and they're the best, they're fricking bad.

01:14:39.140 Unbelievable.

01:14:39.460 And I didn't pay attention. I was sitting in the, on the ground blind with Cam and Johnny

01:14:45.780 Rivets up in, uh, in Edmonton. Yeah. North of Edmonton, uh, spring bear hunting. And I

01:14:52.860 popped my knife into my holder. I was showing Cam or someone, I was showing my knife to Johnny

01:14:58.760 and I cut myself, putting it back in its sheath. And when I say cut myself, I cut it right down

01:15:05.580 to the artery on my finger and it just started gushing.

01:15:07.860 Yeah. Oh, I think I saw that.

01:15:10.060 It just started gushing. And I looked down and I go, that's not a good cut. And you know

01:15:15.620 what I did? I didn't, I, I didn't make a big deal about it at all. I hunted the whole time,

01:15:22.080 gushing blood wrapped. We put dirty shit on it, taped it up. Cam said, I didn't need any

01:15:27.260 stitches. I waited until one o'clock that night until everything was done. We had cleaned

01:15:32.780 the bear that was killed. We had eaten. We were all just hanging out. And I drove myself

01:15:37.820 two hours with Jen Rivets to an emergency room and got stitches because I knew it needed

01:15:45.580 stitches. I don't think I would have acted like that if I wasn't sitting in the ground

01:15:51.200 blind with Cam.

01:15:52.760 Right. Right. Exactly.

01:15:54.080 I'm going to be like, oh, fuck. I gotta go. I gotta go, man. Like, oh, dude, this is not good.

01:15:59.380 This is so not good. Like, I can't believe I just did that. I was just like, yeah, that's

01:16:04.780 all right. It's cut. Yeah. We'll just keep on. I'll just tape it up. We'll deal with it later.

01:16:08.440 Yeah.

01:16:09.860 It's a test.

01:16:10.380 Well, and having the right people around you will, well, I'll say it this way. Depending

01:16:17.780 on who is around you will either lift you or pull you back. It'll either increase and improve

01:16:24.560 your performance or it will hinder it. And it's all about who's around you.

01:16:29.100 Yeah. So you're a product of your environment. Yeah. So all these people that are listening,

01:16:33.700 you have to have a very, very disciplined approach to who you let in your inner circle

01:16:41.760 because they're going to have an effect on you. So you have that one friend from high

01:16:46.280 school. He's, he's, he's, he drinks too much. He doesn't work out. Oh, not great with

01:16:55.000 his kids. He's kind of a slacker at work. Why are you hanging out with him, man? Yeah.

01:17:00.820 Why is he even in your circle? Because loyalty, man. That's why it's like,

01:17:06.080 that's not what, that's not loyalty. That's what people think. They, Hey, we, we went through

01:17:10.980 some hard times or I've known him forever. And so now I owe him everything. That's what

01:17:14.800 people think. And you're hurting yourself and you're hurting, you're hurting him too by letting

01:17:20.280 him act like that, by not allowing him to experience the consequences for the dumb decisions

01:17:24.780 he's making. You're not serving anybody.

01:17:26.660 It's a hard one, man. I think that, uh, I can come off a little, uh, archaic, but

01:17:34.980 I can't be around people like that.

01:17:38.060 I think sometimes if, if I, you know, just speak freely about it. I some, I think sometimes it

01:17:42.940 could be interpreted as cold, right? You come across as cold or calloused, but knowing, knowing

01:17:48.360 you, I know that that's not the case. I know that you think deeply about these things. Uh, I know

01:17:53.840 how important it is to you. And I know there's a purpose behind it. It's not some flippant

01:17:57.360 attitude of I'm better than other people. It's no, there's purpose. There's intentionality

01:18:01.500 behind it. This is why I do these things. And most people don't have the luxury of seeing

01:18:05.860 that. And so they misinterpret it as something negative when in fact it's not.

01:18:11.000 And I know there's things in those, those people's lives that maybe are blockers or obstacles

01:18:16.500 that they can't break through. And I know they can break through because the human spirit

01:18:21.280 can break through anything. And so there's a part of me that's like, Hey Kip, you should be

01:18:25.900 better at helping them unlock and helping them get past these obstacles. And, uh, that's the balance

01:18:34.760 I play. You know, I struggle sometimes helping people do that. I want to, you know, I kind of want

01:18:42.540 to see people help themselves first and then I'll jump in. I'm just like that.

01:18:48.900 Well, I mean, think about, okay. So I think about my kids, you know, they're, they've got their bikes,

01:18:54.560 right. And they're, they're in training wheels when they're getting started. Like think about if I

01:18:58.800 never took the training wheels off their bike, like at some point they're going to fall on a bike.

01:19:02.660 Like at some point you've got to take the training wheels and they're going to fall and they're going

01:19:06.520 to fall on their elbow. They're going to scrape themselves up. Otherwise they're going to be

01:19:10.700 riding on their training wheels when they're 40 years old. And how stupid would that look? And how

01:19:16.280 limiting would that be for them? And we do that. We do that to people. It's hard, man, because it's

01:19:23.800 like society. That's my point. It's the consumerism of comfort. I mean, in Doggins, Goggins, excuse

01:19:30.220 David Goggins. He is, he's like, he's like, I don't know, like he might be sent by God, dude.

01:19:38.300 He's, he's, I'll tell you what, he has messages so hardcore and so direct that you wonder where

01:19:49.200 it comes from. You know, the interesting thing about him, I'm not a big religious, I'm not a

01:19:54.120 big religious guy and you know that, but yeah, but everybody that has religion in their life.

01:19:59.200 Um, but that one right there, like he may have been placed for one reason because God thinks

01:20:04.660 we're soft. Yeah. And, and, and wants to show you how soft you are. Yeah. Yeah. You know what?

01:20:13.340 I'll tell you what, when I sat down with Goggins, which I think was a couple of years ago now,

01:20:16.760 maybe a year and a half or so ago, I had the opportunity to actually sit down. I'll tell you

01:20:22.860 what, man, when I walked into his room, it was, it was palpable. Like it wasn't a show. Like you

01:20:29.800 watch, I walked in, I was like, Whoa. And he wasn't, he was, he was down to earth. He was,

01:20:36.080 he was gracious. Like he invited me to his hotel room. What's that?

01:20:41.440 So what is that? That's aura. That's energy. That's spirituality of another level. That's

01:20:49.140 connectivity. That's force. That's gravity. I mean, I can go on and on. That's some people

01:20:54.480 that chakra, like, you know what I think it is. I'll tell you what I think it is. I'll tell

01:21:01.160 you, let me tell you what I think. It's not false bravado. It's not arrogance. It's none

01:21:08.200 of that, which some people will interpret it as that it's supreme confidence by aligning

01:21:15.620 his words with his actions and beliefs. That's what it is. It's his, his words and actions

01:21:23.020 are so aligned with, with, or excuse me, his thoughts and his thoughts and words are so

01:21:29.120 aligned with his actions that you can feel the congruency between it. That to me is what

01:21:33.680 it is. I spent a lot of time thinking about that because I'm like, what is it about this

01:21:36.700 guy? He's living it. That's what it is. And when you're around Cam and you're around

01:21:42.060 Jocko and you're around all of these guys, it's, that's what it is. It's supreme confidence

01:21:49.260 that they have earned through aligning their thoughts and words with their actions.

01:21:55.220 I think that's well said.

01:21:58.140 All right, brother, let's wrap things up, man. I want to tell you, I really appreciate

01:22:01.260 you. I'm, I'm, uh, I'm, I'm glad that we're connected. I was going to say friends, but I

01:22:05.620 wasn't included on that list. So I'll just say, I'm glad we're connected.

01:22:07.980 I said best friends. I said best friends.

01:22:11.040 That's true. Fair enough. Fair enough. Uh, no, I am glad we're connected, man. I know

01:22:15.180 we've known each other for a couple of years now and we've had the opportunity to go on

01:22:18.120 a couple of hunts together and have conversations. You've been a big help for me directly and

01:22:22.320 indirectly. And I really appreciate you for that, man. Thank you very much.

01:22:25.640 And I, I always say, man, like I'm, I'm drawn to what you're doing because you're creating

01:22:31.520 something you're co-creating with all these people that are involved in order of the man.

01:22:35.440 And, and that's, it's really special that you decided to do something. You know, I know

01:22:41.740 you were like a financial planner or something before, like you had no skills to do what you're

01:22:47.520 doing now. And so to me, that's where you earn the stripes for me. Uh, because that, that

01:22:53.600 to me is what it's about. Um, so I'm, I'm proud of you too, man.

01:22:57.460 Thanks brother. Appreciate it.

01:22:59.460 All right. Peace. Have everybody, uh, hope the podcast. Well, order man hats or bad-ass.

01:23:04.940 I wish I had one. I have a big truck hat.

01:23:07.920 Oh, I was going to say, I'm like, didn't I get, cause I thought I gave you a hat one time. You're

01:23:11.540 like, I got enough hat, but it was a shirt, right? You're like, I got enough shirts.

01:23:15.220 Dude, I'm bald, man. I need hats.

01:23:17.260 All right, brother. I'm going to send you some hats. We'll get, I mean, you got some good

01:23:20.540 looking hats, but we'll get you connected.

01:23:22.620 Yeah. All right, man. I love you.

01:23:24.540 All right. Talk soon, man.

01:23:26.280 See you, Ryan.

01:23:27.300 See you.

01:23:27.560 Man, what did I tell you? Like I said earlier, deep thinker, fascinating thinker, very, very

01:23:34.320 interesting, sees things in a way that I don't think most people do. And there's always value

01:23:40.180 in that, whether you agree or disagree or all somewhere in between, there's always value

01:23:45.020 in talking with individuals who see life through a different lens. And Kip is definitely one of

01:23:50.580 those individuals. He's been highly, highly successful, uh, in his life and he will continue

01:23:55.780 to do so. Uh, but he marches to the beat of his own drum and does it his way. And I'm

01:24:00.860 inspired by that. I'm motivated by that. And I like having friends at my corner, uh, like

01:24:05.640 that as well. So guys, there it is. Uh, please connect with Kip and big truck farm and brewery

01:24:11.100 on Instagram, on Facebook, on all the socials, let Kip know what you thought about the conversation.

01:24:16.100 Uh, I will say one thing I am very appreciative of from you guys is whenever I have guests,

01:24:22.960 the overwhelming majority of those guests will reach back out to me and tell me that they've

01:24:29.480 received so many messages and emails and comments from you guys who, uh, enjoyed what they had to

01:24:35.400 share and you're engaging with them. And that means a lot to me as well, because it lets those

01:24:40.380 guys know that we've got a solid, loyal, engaged group of men here that want to improve their lives

01:24:47.380 and you're willing to engage with them as well. So do that. Make sure to connect with Kip and my

01:24:51.080 other guests connect with me on the, on the socials, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter at Ryan

01:24:56.680 Mickler, and then YouTube at order of man. All right, guys, that's all we've got. Make sure you

01:25:02.120 check out the battle ready program, order of man.com slash battle ready. And, uh, let's keep getting

01:25:06.300 after it. We'll be back tomorrow for our ask me anything, but until then go out there, take action

01:25:11.320 and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

01:25:16.320 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:25:20.100 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - August 18, 2020

Optimization Through Discomfort ｜ KIP FULKS

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