Order of Man - Overcoming Perfectionism, Tips for Building Habits, and Advice for a Young Dad

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest, embrace your fears, and boldly chart

00:00:04.960 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time.

00:00:10.360 You are not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who

00:00:17.080 you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,

00:00:22.600 you can call yourself a man. All right, Sean, we got back-to-back weeks, you and I, sir.

00:00:28.860 Yeah, let's do it. Mr. Mickler, as you guys already know from last week, Mr. Mickler's on holiday with

00:00:37.100 the fam, and so you guys are getting Sean and I for the Ask Me Anything episode. This is our show that

00:00:43.580 comes out every Wednesday, and there's an interview show that Ryan does with high-calibered individuals

00:00:48.740 on Tuesdays, and then he has his Friday field notes on Fridays. So we're going to field questions today

00:00:54.480 from the Iron Council. That's our exclusive brotherhood. To learn more about that, go to

00:00:59.120 orderofman.com slash ironcouncil, and then we do have a handful of questions that we're going to pull

00:01:04.040 from our Facebook group as well, and you can connect with us on Facebook at facebook.com

00:01:12.560 slash group slash orderofman. Sean, let's just get right into it. Sound good?

00:01:17.260 Sounds great. Okay, man. All right, Sean Combs, I have a perfectionist tendency. Even as I write

00:01:24.660 this, I have erased it three times and 30 times in my head. I know what I need to do, but if the

00:01:31.800 circumstances are not perfect, I don't do it. Any suggestions on how to change this? That's a good

00:01:38.740 question. I like this question. It's a really good question. I don't know if I have a good answer for

00:01:45.520 him specifically. Just that it threw me when he said I've rewritten this question three times. That's,

00:01:52.420 you know, I mean, that's a whole different animal. I mean, my coaching for any of the guys that I see

00:02:01.420 that have trouble with this is just to take action, even if it's little actions and start

00:02:09.660 with things that you're not totally comfortable with without things being perfect. It could be

00:02:16.140 anything. It could be stuff like this, writing a question and just sending it or whatever, just

00:02:20.560 the smaller things and then building from there, kind of like working out, right? You're not going

00:02:26.340 to go take the big actions that you need to right away. And you start with the little things and

00:02:32.100 work yourself into it. But I mean, honestly, if you really, if, if, if that was an honest thing

00:02:39.740 that you redid this question three times, I mean, I think there's other issues of OCD and things like

00:02:46.420 that. I mean, if I'm being totally honest, what would you say? Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess I want to

00:02:53.800 connect to what's the problem. So let's get clear on that, right? Because any alludes to it, but I'm

00:02:58.480 curious, Sean, if you think there's more to this quote unquote, being a problem. So let's dissect

00:03:03.100 if the circumstances aren't perfect, I don't do it. So that's fair to say that's a problem,

00:03:10.020 right? Because there are things outside of our realm of control that are not going to be perfectly

00:03:16.860 aligned and thus it's never going to be perfect. And thus you're not going to take action. Is there any

00:03:22.120 other problem? Like what's the problem? And I'm, I'm kind of, you know, teeing this up, right? For,

00:03:27.580 for discussion. What's the problem with the fact that he wrote, rewrote this question three times?

00:03:34.800 The, well, is it there's a difference. There's a difference between, I call it paralysis by analysis.

00:03:41.900 There's a difference between wanting things to be right, wanting to know what you're doing before you

00:03:50.720 do something and just having to have things perfect before you do something. There's a,

00:03:59.660 there's a drastic difference between the two. It's just like, you know, how do you know if you have OCD

00:04:06.020 or if you're just clean? Well, if you have to tap the door three times before you go in and out or,

00:04:14.400 you know, hit the light switches or whatever it is, if there's those things, um, that's a different

00:04:20.680 animal. And so it it's, that's why the action part, just, even if it's little things, when it feels

00:04:27.480 uncomfortable, if it doesn't feel totally perfect, um, can be helpful because you start to break

00:04:34.400 those patterns of everything having to be absolutely perfect. And so, like you said,

00:04:40.600 like you mentioned, it's, it there's just wording in that question that for him specifically, I think

00:04:46.020 is maybe a deeper problem. Like he, he, he should probably go and talk to someone about that, but for

00:04:53.460 all the paralysis by analysis guys, it's taking at catching yourself. It's, it's the same thing that

00:04:59.740 comes with catching yourself from doing time, wasting things and turning it into productive

00:05:08.280 things. It was one of the things I coach people with in a lot is that if you look at your week,

00:05:14.940 um, you know, people ask us, especially during the new year, Hey, how do I, how do I stay on task?

00:05:20.880 How do I make sure that my new year's resolution stick hat? What are some things I can do? And I tell

00:05:25.800 everybody, you have to replace your bad habits. It's the habits that kill you with resolutions.

00:05:32.240 That's why they don't stick. And so the first thing you, you can do is figure out how you're

00:05:38.100 spending your time weekly. Just like if you want to save more money, the first thing I tell people

00:05:42.220 to do is track your money for a month, literally everything that goes out, everything you spend on

00:05:47.980 even cash, all it just track every single thing. And then at the end of the month, you'd surprise

00:05:53.280 yourself with where you waste money. You know, you realize you do it. It's the same thing with

00:05:57.520 our time. If you track your time for a week and all the places you, you waste time, then all of a

00:06:05.240 sudden you find hours and hours in every day that you typically for most people that you were wasting

00:06:11.140 time and then replace that with productive time where you can go out and get things done. And so for

00:06:16.400 the paralysis by analysis guys, you do that with your quote unquote study time, or guys do this by

00:06:23.600 reading or listening to podcasts and they count that as their personal development, you reading isn't

00:06:29.760 developing you. You taking action on the things that you're reading is what develops you and makes

00:06:35.040 you better and enables you to be the best version of yourself. But you just gathering more information

00:06:40.320 is just, I mean, who did I saw Robert Kiyosaki do this? Uh, the author of rich dad, poor dad. Um,

00:06:48.860 I was at a thing with him and he was talking about your capacity and we all have a certain capacity for,

00:06:55.220 uh, the, the, the information that we can store. And he said, you know, you take in more information.

00:07:02.560 And it's like filling a cup and he has this pitcher of water and he starts filling the cup and then

00:07:07.760 he's talking. And while he's talking, it's just overflowing onto the stage. And he's like, you

00:07:13.700 gathering more information without taking action on any, anything that's already in this cup doesn't

00:07:18.560 make you doing exactly this. Yeah. And so that's again, for the, to answer the question for the paralysis

00:07:26.380 by analysis, guys, it's look at the time that you're, that you think is productive,

00:07:32.020 that you're actually wasting by studying and gathering more info before you're taking action

00:07:37.620 on things and figure out what are going to be the most effective actions to take immediately

00:07:43.500 on those things that you're quote unquote studying about. So sorry for the long answer,

00:07:51.140 but I think that's, you know. Yeah. I mean, for me, I think I'm thinking Sean here, right? It's

00:07:56.100 like, you know, well, I'll just, I don't know, Sean, I wouldn't have wrote it three times. Right.

00:08:01.200 But in the same breath, I get criticized by people all the time because my grammar sucks. And you know,

00:08:07.480 I should have used a comma when I should have on a post or whatever. Right. And I am there because

00:08:13.900 I'm like, did you understand the, what the message? Yes, you did. Okay. Well then I don't care.

00:08:18.220 So there's key areas where we're going to have a little bit more passion and intentionality because

00:08:25.520 it's meaningful to us. But Sean, I do this in certain areas where I want it to be a certain

00:08:34.200 way. And I actually lose sight of the bigger picture and the strategic objective. Right. So

00:08:40.640 from a leadership perspective, I may say, Hey, we're going to roll something out. And I have in my

00:08:45.120 vision in my mind of what that needs to look like. So the question is, is did the documentation and the

00:08:52.820 presentation need to be perfect? Or was the bigger play here an opportunity to give an employee some

00:08:59.080 reps to learn and grow? And it's not going to be perfect because the more important thing is an

00:09:06.300 opportunity for this employee to, you know, get a rep in and get some practice. So sometimes I'll put

00:09:13.840 perfection around things that are actually aren't important. An analogy we've used on this podcast in

00:09:20.020 the past has been like your kid's room being clean. Do we want the room clean or do we want our kids

00:09:26.860 to respect their things and be orderly? You could get the room clean, but it may come at a cost of your

00:09:36.240 relationship with your children. If your intentionality is let your kids learn, then the room may not get

00:09:42.840 exactly clean, but you've addressed a bigger strategic objective. So I'd be careful of the

00:09:49.980 weight that we're putting around the thing that we want perfect and make sure it's the right thing.

00:09:54.680 It's the higher priority thing, or it's the strategic thing. The second part is not everything's in our

00:10:02.000 realm of control. And, and I think when what I, you know, he wrote here, if the circumstances aren't

00:10:09.360 perfect, I won't do it. So let's use something really basic. And you kind of alluded to it

00:10:13.800 already, Sean, go into the gym. That, that totally happens. In fact, this is perfect analogy that

00:10:21.020 happened today. It happened today. I am completely out of integrity today. And I didn't get up when I

00:10:29.940 wanted to get up and I didn't go to the gym and I excused it because I'm lazy. And the excuse I used

00:10:38.340 was not good circumstances for whatever reason, I didn't feel my Garmin go off. That's usually what

00:10:46.440 I do. So I don't wake my wife up. I didn't feel that go off. By the time I checked it, my window

00:10:52.880 of opportunity for my workout was, was exactly an hour. And I don't like that. I like an hour and a

00:11:00.200 half because I like to take my pre-workout kind of chill out in the house a little bit. You know what I

00:11:06.000 mean? Go to the gym and it always takes about 120 minutes to work out. So I knew my workout wasn't

00:11:11.480 going to go the way I wanted it to go. But here's the rub. Would I have been better off going anyway

00:11:20.000 and gotten a solid 45 minute workout in? Would I be better off today? And the answer is yes.

00:11:29.940 But I use the perfect circumstances as a reason not to execute. And, and, and, and how many things

00:11:38.680 are outside of our realm of control? And so Sean, I would assume that maybe by your tendency to be a

00:11:46.400 perfectionist, which I can relate to, by the way, sets you up to have your expectations constantly not

00:11:53.320 being met as well. And what a disruption. And so, and so now you're saying, well, any suggestions?

00:12:03.120 My only thought is for me, it's mindset. What's the price that I am? What's the price I am paying

00:12:11.940 for my level of perfectionism? And is it worth it? And just getting clear on that, because that will

00:12:19.960 move the needle more than a hack or more than anything else. Just like, is this worth it?

00:12:25.340 Is this going to get me? Is this going to deliver my results? And I would probably suggest

00:12:29.800 if you evaluate your circumstance, it's not going to get you the results you're looking for.

00:12:36.100 I, if I can just add one thing, I had this thought it's, is it worth it is good. But I think also

00:12:42.880 what's more important, because as you were saying this, when you mentioned articulating a message to your

00:12:49.700 team and making sure that you give that message to them and they go out and execute, have you ever,

00:13:00.680 I'm not even going to ask if you've ever done it, because I know you have, if you've been in any

00:13:04.260 leadership capacity, we've all put together a presentation or had thoughts that we wanted to

00:13:12.020 articulate to our team. And we spend tons of time coming up with the facts, the details, the,

00:13:16.840 the intricate parts of the plan that we have. And then we go out and we articulate that message to

00:13:23.560 them. And then when we're done, we're like, Oh, I forgot to say this. I didn't articulate that.

00:13:29.040 Well, I don't know if this resonated and the team can end up leaving,

00:13:33.900 feeling like they're executing a different part of the message you wanted them to get.

00:13:42.240 Have you ever had that happen? And, and the reason that happens is because we spend more time

00:13:49.200 putting together the plan that we want done. Then we do practicing how we're going to articulate it to

00:13:57.180 them so that they receive the message in the right way. And they go out and execute on the things that

00:14:03.200 are more important. And so sometimes when you're preparing for anything, you need to, to figure out

00:14:11.000 what's most important and make sure that that is going to be carried out in the way that's most

00:14:17.760 important to you and the people you're communicating with. Also, let me use another extreme, maybe even a

00:14:24.280 more extreme example. How, how many of us, you know, everyone evaluating as you're driving your cars or

00:14:30.000 wherever you're listening from, how many of us have are incomplete in a relationship in our lives

00:14:37.000 with a parent or a sibling or an uncle or someone else. And we have prolonged

00:14:44.200 the, the resolve of that relationship because we've still been waiting for the circumstance

00:14:51.000 to present itself for us to have that difficult conversation.

00:14:55.760 It's never going to be good. In fact, actually, I take it back. I do know, I, I, you know what?

00:15:04.900 I know the golden egg. I found the solution, Sean. I know the right time. Actually, I know the right

00:15:11.580 time for Sean to write. I know the right time to resolve a relationship for everybody in your life.

00:15:17.620 I actually know all the right time. You know when it is right now, that's the right time.

00:15:25.160 And, and the more we delay things, like I've even done this in a professional setting where

00:15:30.760 I had this idea that like, I wanted to like give some feedback to an employee because they're doing

00:15:36.420 awesome. And I like wanted it perfect. Right. So I delay it. And I delay it so much that the value

00:15:43.440 of me wanting to communicate was lost because I waited too long. And how much, how many things

00:15:51.260 are left on the table due to us sitting back waiting for circumstances, man, the price is

00:15:57.340 probably substantial, probably substantial. All right. I don't know if we want to beat it up

00:16:05.240 anymore. No, it's good. You're tempted. You're tempted. I was, I am tempted. I was just looking for

00:16:12.220 a quote that someone posted in, um, mighty networks, uh, like asking for, for favorite quotes and

00:16:24.080 somebody put a quote that was so good in there about, um, procrastination. Um, and so as you were

00:16:32.360 talking about that, I was, I was, I'm on my phone right here trying to find it right now. I'm going

00:16:37.140 to the, and I'll find, I'll find you the counter to your, the counter to your amazing quote on

00:16:46.500 procrastination. I have the best one ever. Go ahead. As you have that, and then we can even go

00:16:52.280 into the next question. I'll find it by the time we get there. No, we're just going to play on our

00:16:56.580 phones during this entire episode and have like odd, odd, um, weird pauses, uncomfortable. This is

00:17:03.480 great. Okay. Have you heard of the company called despair? No. So, so this company, this used to be

00:17:13.680 probably popular way back when I'm dating myself. Um, but you know, those, uh, inspirational

00:17:19.440 pictures, right? Like it's a beautiful picture of a mountain, a guy climbing the mountain that has

00:17:25.340 like a word, you know, and it's an inspirational poster. So this company back, I mean, it may have

00:17:31.380 in the early two thousands, this company called despair, more or less made posters to mock all the

00:17:38.100 motivational posters. And instead of like a positive message, they're like super negative.

00:17:43.800 And it's really funny. Anyhow, there's a despair poster for procrastination and it's super great.

00:17:50.560 And imagine a guy like sitting on a ledge and he's looking over a, a vast area of space, right? Some

00:17:57.640 mountains and clouds in the background. And you see this text that says procrastination. And here's

00:18:02.900 the phrase never put off until tomorrow. What you, what you can. Oh no, no. Oh my gosh. This isn't the

00:18:10.440 right one. Hold on. Hold on. I'm ruining it. Oh my goodness. While you're finding that I, one of my

00:18:16.800 favorite ones is always procrastinate later. I used to say that all the time. Um, procrastinate. Yeah.

00:18:22.820 All right. I found it. I found it. Here you go. Procrastination, hard work often pays off after

00:18:28.680 time, but laziness always pays off now. Yeah. That's a good one. This one, here it is. It's so

00:18:35.980 simple. That's it stood out to me because it's, it was so simple. And for some reason it stood out to

00:18:40.760 me, it says, and, uh, who posted this Federico Quintanilla jr. Um, it doesn't say who said it,

00:18:48.340 but he said, if eventually it has to get done, do it now.

00:18:52.820 Yeah. That's it. I mean, it's so simple, but to me it was pretty profound, right? If eventually it

00:18:57.620 has to get done, we all know what those things are. Do it now. It resonates. All right, man,

00:19:02.060 we better move on. Otherwise, right. All right. Regan Huffner, what is the best tip or tool you have

00:19:11.340 for building good habits? I've learned a ton of great things in the last years, but I struggle.

00:19:16.840 I struggle. I still struggle to build habits that will help me apply my knowledge. Thanks for all you

00:19:22.700 do. Habits for applying knowledge. I like this. Yeah. We were just talking about that. So yeah,

00:19:28.520 perfect, perfect transition. The, um, I just talked about some of the things that you can do. You have

00:19:38.200 to find the space for new habits, which means generally you have to get rid of some of the

00:19:45.540 things that don't serve you. So the first step is doing that. Get rid of, figure out the biggest

00:19:51.320 time wasters, the things that don't serve you best, decide you're going to get rid of those things,

00:19:56.220 but then replace them with your new habits. And all of the best books on, on habits say that, um,

00:20:03.620 you know, there's the power of habit is a fantastic one. What's the other one? I'm spacing on the

00:20:08.160 atomic habits, atomic habits. Yeah. They, that both of those books essentially say the same thing.

00:20:14.640 They're both really, really good. If you haven't read those, I'd say, read those. And, and those

00:20:19.360 basically say what I said before, find the bad stuff, get rid of it, replace it with those good

00:20:25.300 habits. And then the key is you have to just start taking action on those things immediately.

00:20:30.900 Yeah. So Regan, there is, um, uh, Jim quick wrote a book called limitless. I, I highly recommend,

00:20:39.220 um, on the subject. And one of the key things that he suggests is that you should always be

00:20:46.060 asking yourself one, one, first of all, he says, study in segments of 25 minutes. That's it. Take a

00:20:53.460 break. And then, and then I think it's 25 minute segments and they actually have a name for these,

00:20:58.080 but anyhow, uh, breaking down your studying, but always be asking the question, how is this

00:21:04.460 applicable to me? How am I going to implement it? And when constantly applying it to your

00:21:12.520 circumstance. And, and I would suggest that if you're not, if you're learning something that you

00:21:17.960 can't apply to, to what you're doing, you probably shouldn't be learning it. I know that sounds a little

00:21:23.380 extreme, but I can't count how many times, at least from a, from a corporate, um, organizational

00:21:32.120 perspective, right. When we look at employee learning and development that it's like, Oh,

00:21:36.180 well, let me send Sean off to a bootcamp for two weeks to learn whatever, but it's not applicable to

00:21:41.200 anything he's doing. The probability of retention is almost like nothing. And when you look at Bloom's

00:21:48.160 taxonomy, the highest levels of learning is in creation. So you need to get to analyze and create

00:21:55.720 in the content that you're, that you're, that the knowledge that you're gaining, that is what you need

00:22:01.120 to get to. And you're not going to be creating and analyzing unless you're applying it to your

00:22:07.160 circumstance. And it's an actionable thing that you can take to act on memorization for reciting is

00:22:14.580 like the lowest level of learning and a waste. It's like that cup, right? You're going to remember

00:22:20.380 it for a little bit, and then you're going to take on new data, and then you're just going to be

00:22:24.200 overflowing and you're wasting your time. So get to creation by always asking yourself the question,

00:22:30.640 how is this applicable to me? How am I going to implement it and when? So there's a level of

00:22:36.140 commitment to it. Now there's a bunch of other strategies around be humble, consider the fact of

00:22:43.280 what you're learning. You don't know, right? Consider that taking action on it, teaching other

00:22:49.240 individuals, a review process. There's a lot of little nuances, but I would suggest look into Jim

00:22:55.840 Quick and his book and a lot of his content around how to retain information. That's, that's kind of his

00:23:01.520 specialty. That's good. I, I, I forgot I did this when I, not when I read his book, but I, I,

00:23:09.300 I just added something to it because a while ago I decided I was going to, while driving around,

00:23:15.380 listen to books and podcasts while I'm driving just, just to help with that. But what I added to

00:23:23.160 that was those books that I'm listening to, they don't help me as effectively as when I read them

00:23:29.680 with a highlighter. I like reading books with a highlighter so I can highlight, implement the stuff

00:23:33.820 that stands out. But one of the things I started doing was while driving, if I had, if I heard

00:23:42.000 something and it stood out so much, like, man, I need to do this. I literally will make myself pull

00:23:48.080 over. Even if I'm on the freeway, I'll find it, you know, an exit or something to just pull off onto

00:23:53.360 the shoulder and make a note in my phone on that thing so that I can go back to it and implement or do

00:24:00.060 whatever I need to do just so I don't lose that prompting is, is what I call it. Cause there's

00:24:06.720 a reason why we feel that way or, or have those thoughts when we're listening to or reading those

00:24:11.860 things. And so if you can't be with a highlighter, you can still be effective is what I'm saying. And

00:24:16.100 yeah, no, there's different ways people do it. Um, but the goal should be to, in all those things

00:24:22.680 that we're doing to be able to implement those things in some way in our life.

00:24:25.940 Yeah, totally. All right. Kenneth Limosnero, Limosnero, I'm training jujitsu. Would you

00:24:33.220 recommend doing barbell training or kettlebell training? Thank you. That's it, man. Barbell

00:24:39.560 or kettlebell with your jujitsu? Yes. Either. Okay. Yes. I mean, they're both for such different

00:24:48.660 things, right? I mean, I work with the trainer too. So maybe it's an unfair thing because my trainer

00:24:53.720 looks at what my body needs, how I'm tweaked, if I'm standing straight, if I'm a little crooked

00:24:59.000 or whatever. And that's, that's a lot of times how we decide kettlebells or barbells, but I've also

00:25:04.140 done workouts where I've worked with both. And so it just depends on, on what you're trying to gain.

00:25:11.020 Yeah. I don't think it's specific to jujitsu. Do you, I mean, you, you've been training jujitsu way

00:25:15.780 longer than me. I would, how's this? I would suggest in the grand scheme of things, if I, if I

00:25:22.260 were what, if my workout was all about optimizing for jujitsu, then all workouts I would do would be

00:25:30.900 functional training without a doubt. Yeah. Um, I I've had segments where a lot of like, I had times

00:25:38.500 in my life where I was doing strictly functional training. I didn't notice it, but my teammates were

00:25:44.540 like, Whoa, dude, you're faster. You're stronger. But I didn't sense it because that functional

00:25:50.580 training showed up and affected my jujitsu in a way that just good old bodybuilding exercises just

00:25:57.600 don't. So, but I would put that in the category of functional training, not in the category of barbell

00:26:05.320 versus kettlebell, but kettlebell training often would fall under functional training. But to your point,

00:26:13.900 I mean, you know what I'm saying? So Kenneth, if you're asking like ideal training for jujitsu,

00:26:18.900 I would say functional training that is, you know, always counter pushing poles, you know, high reps,

00:26:26.180 intensity, minimal resting, you know, core engagement machine. Yeah. Devil's tricycle, all that

00:26:32.820 miserable, you know, uh, Bulgarian bags, sandbags, all the miserable, you know, 400 reps

00:26:41.420 kind of workouts that are super tough. Yeah. I think those are probably best for jujitsu, but, um,

00:26:48.800 it may be even look into, um, I shouldn't even be making references if I can't remember people's

00:26:54.120 names. And so the original founder of Jim Jones, uh, in Utah, he, um, he was a rock climber.

00:27:02.600 Um, and I, I'll, I'll look up his name and share it a little bit later. Um, but he, he started Jim

00:27:09.760 Jones for optimizing rock climbers. And then I, if I remember the story correctly, he started

00:27:14.400 train, he started doing jujitsu and then altered a lot of his workouts to optimize jujitsu. And, and,

00:27:24.120 and thus Jim Jones has a kind of a reputation and, or a relationship, a soft relationship with the

00:27:31.320 grappling and jujitsu community because of that. Uh, and a lot of what they do is high intensity

00:27:38.040 functional training. Those guys, I mean, if you just do some YouTube searches of Jim Jones, you'll

00:27:43.280 be, you'll, you'll be seeing some crazy stuff, you know, like single arm barbell snatches and clean,

00:27:50.300 you know what I mean? Just some, those guys are just nuts. So, um, anyhow, functional training,

00:27:56.440 there's your answer. Well, that's the thing. If you, if you say functional and you had to choose

00:28:03.340 between just a dumbbell and a kettlebell, then I agree with you. I'd say kettlebell because

00:28:11.100 generally you have to engage your core more to use kettlebell where you don't with the, with the

00:28:17.000 dumbbell. Right. So that would probably be the stronger pattern between the two. And now all the

00:28:22.080 fitness guys are losing their minds. Oh yeah. Who are these, who are, who are these two guys to

00:28:30.340 know what they're talking about? You know, here you go. I don't actually know what I'm talking about.

00:28:34.260 So Mark Twight, Mark Twight, the founder of Jim Jones, you can look up his, his content. All right.

00:28:40.680 Ryan Mills, what tactics do you both use and suggest other men to use to discern between truth

00:28:46.840 from error in your life? There are many counterfeits of truth out there. So discerning the truth from

00:28:54.040 lies or failing into the trap of my truth seems highly important for men.

00:29:02.720 Ryan tends to like these because yeah, you know, there is no my truth. There's just the truth. Yeah.

00:29:10.760 Yeah. I love that. I'm sure his comments explode when he gets into that one. But I mean, really,

00:29:19.280 it's a matter of being honest with yourself where you messed up and how you can be better by those

00:29:24.700 things. I think that's what it comes down to is finding the cause and effect in your life and being

00:29:34.000 able to honestly navigate, okay, I did this and this happened in my life. And was that good? Or was it bad?

00:29:42.800 Why? And how can I change down the road? What can I do differently the next time I'm faced with that

00:29:49.600 circumstance? So it can benefit me as opposed to hurt me. And I think too many of us don't

00:29:57.280 give that honest assessment so we can be better. Instead, we post it up as well, that's just the

00:30:06.300 way I am. Or it's my or even worse, it's my dad's fault, because how he treated me when I was a kid,

00:30:12.680 or it's my, you know, whatever my upbringing, where I got all of that stuff. And it's none of that is

00:30:19.280 true. That's just the excuse that we use. So looking at the actual truth of choices, you made

00:30:26.540 actions you took, the result, and how it can be better the next time.

00:30:33.740 Totally. Yeah. How's this? I'm going to jump on the my truth, my truth debate here.

00:30:39.140 One of us has to.

00:30:40.760 It's not a debate, but here's what's valuable. One, that you never use that for yourself.

00:30:49.980 Right? So the rule about this is you should never be going, well, Sean, my truth is,

00:30:55.360 I'll stop it already. Right? Like it's almost just, I don't want to slap someone. If I heard

00:31:01.400 that, it'd be so annoying. However, use that on other people because they might be so in the box

00:31:09.320 that they don't know. And it's actually really valuable and empathetic for me to listen from

00:31:16.820 the perspective that Sean thinks his perspective is truth. That's actually valuable for me to have

00:31:22.900 that. Because it helps me understand the human condition. Helps me understand humans.

00:31:28.600 I don't want to cut you off.

00:31:30.060 I don't want to cut you off, but when you say use that on other people, just because you kind of lost

00:31:34.520 me for a second. And I think you've, I've brought it back to what you're saying is that you're saying,

00:31:39.180 say that maybe that's their truth when you're, when you're dealing with somebody.

00:31:44.220 Totally. Not to give them an excuse, but understand that's how humans work. What's truth? Are you

00:31:49.540 joking? We're all walking around thinking like what's true. And it's regurgitated information

00:31:55.860 that we heard from someone else. You don't actually know. And Sean, I'll ask you in, is there times in

00:32:01.840 your life with, with what you thought was true for you at that moment? And you look at it now and

00:32:07.080 you're like, that wasn't like, I was so stupid. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You don't know what you don't

00:32:12.280 know. And so we should always be challenging ourselves, but understand that sometimes people

00:32:19.420 are in a box and they don't, they're so blinded. And I don't say that in a mean way. They're so

00:32:27.300 blinded in their ignorance. And they, they really think they honestly believe that their life is the

00:32:33.020 way it is because they are zero control and, and what was that? They really believe it. And,

00:32:40.500 and I'm not saying we make an excuse for them, but understand it, understand it, that when your

00:32:46.420 wife gets upset, that when you did X, Y, Z, it means that you don't love her. Understand that it

00:32:52.320 really does feel like you don't love her. Doesn't mean it's true, but in her world, it sure does feel

00:33:01.340 that way. That's valuable to understand that. So use it to have empathy, but don't use it as an excuse

00:33:08.640 not to take action on how you show up in the world. I like that. There's, I was talking about

00:33:15.960 this the other day that, you know, when you have people that live in bad neighborhoods, there's like

00:33:23.260 this perpetuity of, you know, generation to generation of poverty and, and gang violence and

00:33:29.980 other things. And the main reason that gets perpetuated because to those people, they learn their whole

00:33:38.220 lives. Like this is it, this is, this is the cards we were dealt. This is all we got. And, and so,

00:33:44.060 and it's been this way for generations. So this is just the way it has to be. And it's so ingrained in

00:33:50.960 them. And then if they're not exposed to an environment outside of that, they don't really

00:33:56.360 honestly know that's out there. And I always use my example of that. Cause I grew up in a really

00:34:01.300 bad neighborhoods with my, you know, with the single mom and, and those things. And we used to look up

00:34:06.440 in the Hills at where all the nice houses were, where I lived and be like, man, what do those

00:34:10.540 people do? And, and, and then instantly you'd go to, well, I don't know, but that's never going to be

00:34:15.880 us. And those are the conversations we used to have. And then I get to high school and I

00:34:23.180 meet a friend of mine who ends up becoming my best friend and still my best friend to this day.

00:34:28.920 And his stepdad was an attorney and they lived up in those Hills in a big, nice house. And I remember

00:34:34.900 going to his house for the first time, like, Oh my gosh, this is like, these are real people in

00:34:40.000 here. And then as I got to know them, they weren't that different than a lot of the people I knew.

00:34:44.740 They just thought this was possible. And just that little bit of exposure broke me out of that

00:34:52.520 thinking of this is the way it has to be for us to, you know what, there are other possibilities.

00:34:57.820 And so I know that if I wasn't exposed to that, I almost shudder to think like, I don't, I don't

00:35:03.840 know if I would have broken out of that thought process of that's all there is for me. And so like,

00:35:09.600 I have, I have, you know, tons of, tons of compassion for people that are in those circumstances.

00:35:16.240 And, you know, because I kind of firsthand understand it, that just have kind of been there

00:35:22.860 where I needed something to break me out of that, those patterns, those thoughts and show me the

00:35:27.880 possibilities. I was the same way. I remember high school, college was never a conversation.

00:35:34.540 That was not a conversation in our house. Never. And when they talked about it at school,

00:35:40.720 it was in my mindset was like, I would check out because I was like, well, that's, that's for rich

00:35:47.500 people. Right. So that wasn't even an option for me. Like it was never a conversation. I had

00:35:52.840 no idea I could have gone to college, had no idea it was even a possibility. Right. Until I

00:36:00.520 started to your point, started having some friends going, I'm like, Hey, what are you guys doing

00:36:03.960 after our high school, our senior year? Right. And they're like, Oh, I'm going to go on a church

00:36:09.100 mission or I'm going to go to college. And I'm like, wait, you guys aren't that rich. Right. And it

00:36:14.560 started like, Whoa, like, like I could do this. Like it was a possibility. How many times

00:36:20.440 has it been true? Then man can't run a sub five minute mile. Yeah. In history, people have said

00:36:30.280 it numerous times impossible until it was possible until someone created the possibility of it.

00:36:37.820 And, and thus I'm going to bring this back around. That's the importance of how we show up as men

00:36:43.440 because we create possibility for others. So as people get to know Sean, as people get to know me,

00:36:52.020 as get to know Ryan, and they see us doing what we do, it creates a possibility for others to do the

00:37:00.080 same. And thus the importance of how we show up in our homes, in our communities, at our jobs and

00:37:07.340 everywhere else, because often people's limitation of, of themselves is based upon what they believe

00:37:14.380 is possible. Yeah. And possibility is usually created through others, others leading.

00:37:21.600 Not even often the large majority of the time, maybe all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, maybe

00:37:27.500 unless you're talking about physically flying right through some things that are impossible. Like you

00:37:32.000 can't just physically jump off a building and fly. Right. There's, you know, until, until someone

00:37:37.600 does. Right. But, um, yeah, that's, that's good. Anything else? I guess there, man. I mean, uh,

00:37:44.540 tactics. No, I mean, I, I, I always questioned, right. Like tactics are get around really true.

00:37:50.520 Yeah. Yeah. I mean the best perspective. Yeah. The best way is osmosis. I mean, if you're,

00:37:56.340 if you're looking for the best available tactic is get around those people that are more like you want

00:38:01.920 to be that have more of what you want to have and find ways to spend more time with them. And you'll

00:38:08.200 be amazed at how your truth quote unquote changes. Yeah. How about, you know, Ryan said

00:38:17.000 there are many counterfeits to truth out there and discerning them. So when you hear that,

00:38:24.080 what do you think he's talking about? Counterfeits to truth. Are we talking news?

00:38:27.920 I think all media, all religion, anything, any, any tech, I mean, all things, it could be anything

00:38:40.620 there's. Yeah. Um, I mean, shoot, there's, you see this in all things. You see it in churches,

00:38:47.820 you see it in homes, you see it in media, you see it. I mean, the clearest place is right now in our

00:38:54.960 media and politics and the polarity of it. I mean, literally most people think the way they do about

00:39:03.080 their politics based on what they listen to and watch and that's it. And honestly, most of them

00:39:08.720 don't go much deeper than that. And it doesn't mean that the majority of what they're listening to is

00:39:17.020 true. They've just allowed it to be what they believe. Yep. Here's, here's the thought for you.

00:39:25.680 So, um, I'm looking for the author of the four agreements, Don Miguel Ruiz. He wrote a follow-up

00:39:36.340 book called the fifth agreement and that fifth agreement. And I'd highly recommend these books,

00:39:41.800 by the way. Uh, the fifth agreement is to be a skeptic, but I want to be really clear.

00:39:49.920 It's not to challenge everybody, but it's to, to look at, like to understand it's more,

00:39:57.380 more in the space of understanding. So when, when you hear a politician say something, when you hear,

00:40:05.360 I don't know, maybe a questionable church leader say something or an executive say something,

00:40:10.960 they're overly passionate about getting their objective done, be a skeptic. What, what's at play?

00:40:16.980 Is this, uh, unrighteous dominion? As we know that most men in power will,

00:40:25.080 will practice unrighteous dominion. Is it that, is it, if this works, it makes them look good.

00:40:33.080 I mean, being a skeptic also is looking at and realizing that people are walking around constantly

00:40:37.860 concerned. Number one on their mind is what you think about them constantly, how we dress,

00:40:43.800 how we walk, what we say, we're constantly being controlled and trying to leave a good impression

00:40:50.460 and avoid looking dumb. That's why most people never liked public speaking. Why? Oh, because,

00:40:55.420 uh, they're afraid of the positive or the negative impact it might leave on people.

00:40:59.380 No, they're concerned about looking like a moron. Yeah. We're so obsessed with that around what

00:41:05.720 people think that it drives our behavior. So a skeptic knows that and knows that when someone's

00:41:12.120 nervous, when they're speaking, what are they nervous about? They're nervous about what people

00:41:15.920 think of them and they have a little self-esteem about it, or they don't have confidence about it.

00:41:20.760 When you look at someone in power, be a skeptic, wonder, Jesus, is this about a power struggle?

00:41:26.560 Is this about staying in control? If someone wants to be involved in our project and you're like,

00:41:31.580 why is this guy constantly involved? Why? Because maybe he finds his self value and feels value by

00:41:37.700 being involved in things, right? Like the, the, a skeptic understands human behavior. And so I guess

00:41:45.680 a tactic here is just understand how humans function and realize that a lot of this isn't necessarily

00:41:52.300 truths. And there's other considerations. And, and I always use this analogy. It's way more

00:41:57.520 complex. It's never as simple as the soundbite from the news. It's never as simple as other things.

00:42:04.440 We're dealing with humans. We're not that simple. There's a lot going on, right? When Sean says,

00:42:10.680 you know, and I'm not putting you on the spot, Sean, but like if Sean and I are working, like there's

00:42:14.840 more happening. Sean's personality is involved. His history is involved. His, his thoughts about what I'm

00:42:20.840 thinking about what maybe he's seeking and, you know, like all those things are happening and that's

00:42:25.820 part of being human. And, and I think our awareness of it and the empathy around it puts us in a really

00:42:31.640 strong area of control and understand and be able to find truths in what's really happening around us.

00:42:38.620 I like that. As you say that, it just makes me think it's important for us to disconnect the truth

00:42:44.220 from the communicator of that truth. And you see this happen all the time in church. As you were

00:42:49.120 talking, you'd mentioned church a few times where, you know, that you could have a pastor that you

00:42:53.780 love and they got this great family life and all these things. And you listen to them for, you know,

00:42:58.500 you go to that church for 10 years and then suddenly that pastor cheats on his wife. And then you're

00:43:04.260 like, Oh man, that church, I shouldn't, I just wasted 10 years of my life. I shouldn't have been going to

00:43:07.920 that church. I shouldn't have been doing that. Well, you're blaming the church for the failure of

00:43:12.660 a man. And so it doesn't make what he was talking about with, you know, uh, uh, chastity and the

00:43:20.780 importance of that and, and the importance of the strength of the family in the home in staying true

00:43:27.840 to those things. That doesn't make it less true. It doesn't make the, the gospel true, but it makes

00:43:35.100 that man human and they failed and they made a mistake and, and we attach the truth to those

00:43:45.000 failures. So we have to be careful of doing that too. Separating the two. All right, Ryan, I think

00:43:51.420 we, we beat it up. All right, Marcus Segura. Do you agree with the statement? Your wife is the CEO of

00:43:59.520 your household and you're the CFO. Thanks for your response. Gentlemen, happy new year. I'm

00:44:05.060 continuing sizable growth and improvement. I'm continuing sizable growth and improvement. So

00:44:10.280 first off Marcus, heck yeah. Good job. What do you stay on the path? Right. And, and, and, uh,

00:44:16.840 your path of growth and improvement now to your question, right? Do you guys agree? You agree

00:44:22.020 with the statement? Your wife is the CEO and you're the CFO. I don't, I, and saying that,

00:44:28.660 I always tell people I'm the head of my household, but my wife's the neck. She tells the head where to

00:44:33.160 go, but it's, I think it's a trap for any of us to, uh, give ourselves titles or, or give ourselves

00:44:43.160 roles, um, or give each other, even worse, give each other roles and then have the expectations that

00:44:48.640 that's the only way we're going to do it because life is fluid and our relationships are fluid.

00:44:54.440 And especially between husband and wife, there's, there's things that need to get done in your

00:45:01.840 household. And maybe, yeah, the CEO, CFO, you let your wife run your house as a CEO and do everything

00:45:08.960 there and you take care of the money. If that's what you're saying, um, and, and make sure that

00:45:14.200 you're providing and going to work and doing your job and everything else. But it, if, if you're,

00:45:19.940 if you come home and let's say you're, you have four kids and you get home and the house is a mess

00:45:26.280 and it's disheveled and, you know, kids are noisy and whatever, and dinner is not quite ready.

00:45:31.460 That doesn't mean you don't pick up some of the things in the house and get some of that stuff

00:45:36.700 done. Maybe you help, you know, finish dinner or whatever it is. You just pick up where,

00:45:41.660 where the home needs it. And so giving yourself a specific role and saying, well, that was your job

00:45:48.200 is that's just going to lead to future arguments and all those. That's why I don't agree with it.

00:45:52.760 I mean, maybe, maybe their focus can be more so on those things, but I wouldn't give it,

00:46:00.240 I wouldn't assign it a title or a role and then have the expectations that that person's supposed

00:46:07.280 to do those things. And because of it, I'm going to stay hands off. And that's where CEO, CFO,

00:46:12.940 it tends to get to, you know, if you're, if you're the CEO of a company and your CFO is not doing his job,

00:46:18.100 you fire him. You didn't, well, you aren't going to do that in your relationship and you can't do

00:46:24.520 that in your home. So why? And here's the danger of it. Subconsciously, it could get you to think

00:46:32.800 that way. Now you might not think that way. As I'm saying these things, you say, oh yeah,

00:46:37.100 that's not what I meant. That's not how I meant the question. I'm just thinking generally, well,

00:46:41.520 if those little things are planted subconsciously in our brain of that's how we're going to do things,

00:46:46.820 that's not healthy and useful either. So that's my thoughts. That's why.

00:46:51.980 Yeah. And I think for me, it lends itself, or at least that statement lends itself to be like,

00:46:57.260 that's her job. This is my job. And the things over there, I'm not worried about. Right. So that

00:47:03.100 doesn't, do I agree with this statement? Do I, I don't know. Do I agree with it being a powerful

00:47:09.600 statement? No, I actually disagree. That's not a powerful statement. I think a powerful statement would be

00:47:15.240 that my wife and I are partners. Period. Yeah. And if you want to use the business analogy,

00:47:22.900 think of a tech startup. You have two partners. You're starting a startup from scratch. And what

00:47:28.440 do you, what are you both worried about? Everything. You're both worried about how we're going to grow

00:47:33.820 this thing. Where's our money coming from? What employees, AKA kids are we going to have? How are we

00:47:39.260 going to organize this org? How do we hold onto our culture? And we're bootstrapped. We're all

00:47:44.160 involved, high trust, and we're all killing it and fulfilling in gaps when we need them. That for me

00:47:49.840 resonates. Like I'm like, yes, that's, that feels accurate. A partnership and a bootstrap, bootstrap

00:47:57.360 startup. Well, that's, that's just the, that's, that's a clear difference between having an entrepreneur

00:48:03.840 mentality versus an employee mentality too. There's as an employee, you're generally speaking,

00:48:10.800 and this is at every level, you're going to work just hard enough to not get fired. And in return,

00:48:14.040 they're going to pay you just enough to not quit. And so if that's what you want from your relationship,

00:48:18.440 that's, that's dangerous, but great. Do it that way. But an entrepreneur is going to do whatever it

00:48:24.700 takes to make sure and ensure that the company not only stays in business, but grows and thrives.

00:48:31.900 And so that's the, that difference of that mentality is a major thing in everything that we do.

00:48:39.720 Steve Hollister, leadership, how to maintain forward momentum in a family unit when your spouse refuses

00:48:47.340 to focus on the family and put her career above us. I've been building a company that produces more

00:48:54.260 than enough income for us. We have two kids, one on the way. Someone has to be mom. I hit burn out

00:49:01.680 last year, trying to be dad and the provider and be mom. Thank you. Tough.

00:49:09.000 It's tough, but the communication has to increase and it's something you, you may not enjoy, but I'll

00:49:17.800 also give, maybe give her resources, you know, things she could plug into to help expand her thought of,

00:49:24.660 you know, what's important, the conversations you have of what's more important. And here's the thing

00:49:29.720 at this stage in her life, be prepared for her to say, well, right now this, this job for me is more

00:49:36.380 important because there's seasons to everything. It doesn't mean that the family is not, but then

00:49:40.680 maybe there's an adjustment that you guys can agree on. Um, maybe it's, it's, you know, it's hard to say

00:49:48.200 my, my, I kind of have this with my wife and I, because she definitely worries more about our business

00:49:54.340 and, um, puts more time into it and everything else. It, um, not necessarily because we have to,

00:50:01.060 but because she chooses to do that. And so a long time ago, um, I just made the decision that I was

00:50:09.680 going to focus more on getting stuff with the kids done, doing, you know, things there, cooking meals,

00:50:16.200 whatever it was so that she could do that and thrive. And I could encourage her in that. Um,

00:50:22.620 and it helped both of us as our business group, we make more money. I mean, here's the thing is that

00:50:26.960 the money lands in the same accounts, you know? So maybe the question is like, you have to ask

00:50:32.020 yourself is, do you need to keep working? Does, you know, is she not making enough in there to pay

00:50:36.720 your bills and you're making more? I mean, I don't know that circumstance because it wasn't

00:50:42.260 super clear in that, but, um, you know, that having other resources, things you can plug into

00:50:49.200 maybe even, um, uh, things you can go to, uh, whether it's, uh, you know, events that help

00:50:57.980 with work-life balance, things like that. Um, you know, not a, this, this isn't, uh,

00:51:05.120 not meant to be a plug for my wife's book, but she wrote a book called happy and strong.

00:51:09.340 And that talks about that. And there's some resources, like we recommend a lot of books and,

00:51:14.380 and things to go to, and most of them are written by guys and done by men. And so

00:51:19.720 for a lot of women, that's hard to take. So if you want a woman's perspective on those things,

00:51:24.200 you know, from a hard charging woman that she can hear from and, and then take advice on how to

00:51:30.560 incorporate the balance into your life to help the both of you, I would recommend that. Um, and,

00:51:36.880 and just more of those types of resources that you can find, um, you know, the revitalized womanhood

00:51:44.720 podcast with, uh, with Gina, right. With Gina's humor. Um, you know, that's a good resource for

00:51:51.880 women to, to go in. Cause now they have a lot of women that are stay all moms and things like that.

00:51:57.700 But then there's also some hard charging women in there too, that are businesswomen and entrepreneurs

00:52:02.860 and, and, uh, building businesses of their own or their, you know, their executives and their

00:52:07.760 companies or whatever it is. It's just any resource available to help her be in a place

00:52:13.960 where it's not just, they're not just going to teach you to be, you know, like the boss,

00:52:22.380 be a boss. You know, there's this women's movement. It's, it's a weird space because

00:52:26.320 for women, you're kind of almost get placed into two places where you're, where you're trying to

00:52:33.020 be, you know, like hashtag boss or, or whatever. Um, this boss, babe kind of movement, I guess you

00:52:40.600 could say, um, or be strong in your family, but there's not many things that, that incorporate

00:52:47.640 both and, and show that you can do both. I think a lot of women are told that they have to make a

00:52:52.760 choice between the two. It's just not true. So find the resources out there that, that help.

00:52:58.700 And, and you're going to have to take the charge in finding those things, um, finding those resources,

00:53:05.440 finding the, the things that maybe you guys can go to together. Um, you know, maybe there's

00:53:10.680 counseling you need to take. If you need a third party to sit with you and just have the discussions

00:53:15.220 and open the lines of communication more so that, um, you can figure it out, but I wouldn't,

00:53:21.080 I wouldn't just throw away the fact that you're always going to be working either because maybe

00:53:25.640 there's a transition there for you. You know, I don't know. I didn't, it's, we don't have enough

00:53:29.900 details. Well, you know, I'm going to blame this on Ryan Mills, right? Because he got started talking

00:53:34.920 about truth. Right. And so I can't help, but now read this and go, Steve, is that true? Is it true

00:53:42.780 that she refuses to put her family before her career? Is that true? Or is that your opinion?

00:53:52.280 Right. And now we're, we're placing a lot of harsh judgment without actually understanding what's

00:53:56.920 actually going on. And if let's say it is true, then, then I'd pose the question of why,

00:54:02.220 why is that really important to her? And what are you doing to help her in the area that's really

00:54:08.280 important to her? Right. Is, is the marriage going well enough that she feels that there's

00:54:13.980 stability in it? If not, maybe she's like, Hey, I got to make sure that I can provide for myself

00:54:19.760 because if Steve leaves me, then I'm going to be high and dry and I'm not going to be able to take

00:54:24.380 care of my family. So in essence, you could argue that she's putting her family first, right?

00:54:29.440 Do you understand that there's probably a tear for, uh, uh, she's torn in the world that we live

00:54:37.760 in right now that says that if you choose to be a woman and raise a family, that somehow you are less

00:54:45.260 than that, you're not living a fulfilled life unless you have a job and have a career. Is she struggling

00:54:52.940 with that movement from, from a lot of feminines? Is that a struggle for her? Does she feel valued?

00:55:00.140 Does she feel like she's accomplished things with what she's doing today? And maybe that's why this

00:55:05.440 career is important. I would, instead of jump in, you may have already Steve. So we're totally

00:55:10.320 projecting on you. If you haven't already get clear, like literally just have the conversation,

00:55:16.400 stop the judgment about what she's doing and what she's not doing in the family's not important.

00:55:21.200 Actually just understand her as a human being, as a woman and understand like, why is this really

00:55:28.200 important to her? And why, what does it make her feel? And keep asking the deeper wise

00:55:33.340 and get connected to why she's showing up. I doubt that she's some evil witch that's like,

00:55:41.140 I want to destroy a family and I want to make lots of cash and dominate the world and, you know,

00:55:46.920 hurt people. No, the probability is in her mind, this is clear. This is clear. It's the right thing

00:55:55.100 to do. And there's some reasoning behind it. Your job is to make sure that you can connect to it so

00:56:00.300 you guys can get aligned so you can support her in what she wants to accomplish. You pushing back on

00:56:07.560 this and making her wrong for putting her career before family may not, may be detrimental to your

00:56:14.100 guys' relationship and to her. This may be her just saying, Hey, I'm not finding fulfillment in being

00:56:22.000 at stay-at-home mom. And I'm looking for something more. Okay. Then how do you guys do that together?

00:56:27.580 How do you support her in it? Now establish boundaries, right? If you're getting burned out

00:56:33.340 and you're going to end up having some covert contracts with her and you're going to lash out

00:56:37.260 and stonewall her because you feel like you're being victimed, right? By having to work all the

00:56:43.380 time and do all these other things. Well, then communicate that too. Hey, honey, I'm going to support

00:56:47.620 you. I'm going to do all these things. I want you to kill it in life. I love that. I also struggle

00:56:53.280 with doing what I do and this much time with the kids as well. So what can you help me in these

00:57:00.040 areas? What, what can, how do we navigate these waters to pull this off so you can win? I could

00:57:06.200 support you in winning and we can make sure our kids win and that this family wins and you guys

00:57:12.040 figure it out together. That was so good. And I just can't help but think most of it and what you're

00:57:20.060 talking about, and especially as men is our ego. You know, I mean, look at my hat, right? It says

00:57:25.840 protect, provide, preside. And in that, as a man, we think if I'm not a provider, quote unquote,

00:57:35.100 if I'm not the one working, if I'm not the one earning the paycheck, then I'm failing in providing.

00:57:40.280 And that's just not true. And as you were speaking, it made me actually think of Rick

00:57:43.960 Trimmer. I mentioned Gina. Well, if you haven't listened to the episode with Rick Trimmer that Ryan

00:57:49.940 did a few weeks ago, go back and listen to that podcast. Listen to Rick. I mean, here's a guy who's

00:57:54.540 built multiple businesses, very successful financially, done well there, been a provider

00:57:59.660 his whole life and his whole relationship with his wife and really made something of their lives

00:58:07.440 together while she was a stay-at-home mom. And now in this season of their life, he's Mr. Mom and

00:58:13.860 it's flip-flopped. And now he's taking care of the baby and running the kids around and making food,

00:58:19.600 all that. He's doing all of those things. And not that she's not still doing a lot of those things,

00:58:23.660 but it's now the role of provider, quote unquote, if you want to say that, lies more

00:58:30.440 on Gina, but it doesn't make Rick any less of a man. It doesn't make him, it doesn't mean he's not

00:58:37.420 accomplishing his provider role. If anything, he's doing it even more because enabling her to do what

00:58:45.040 she's going to do could be more profitable for them than any of those other businesses that he built

00:58:49.700 realms and falls into the realm of presiding now as well. Yeah. But he, but that's the thing is he

00:58:55.340 has to put his ego aside and that's hard for almost every man to do to say, okay, we're going to make

00:59:02.380 her the face now of our providing of, of our income source and those things. And, and, but because

00:59:13.320 they're, they have super strong communication, they have a good network around them and support

00:59:21.760 around them of people that are successful in those parts of their life, that they want to be successful

00:59:26.140 in to coaching and helping them through those things. And because of that, it's a non-issue in

00:59:32.960 their family. He doesn't feel like he doesn't walk around for lack of a better way to say it as guys,

00:59:38.560 we say, well, I don't want to be a bitch. I don't want to be a, I don't want to be a, you know,

00:59:43.080 I don't want to be cleaning the house and I don't want to be, you know, doing that. That's in, uh,

00:59:47.920 you know, some of it's cultural to how we're taught as kids or what would, how we grew up and what we

00:59:53.160 see or, or whatever that ideal is in our minds. And so if the family's as important to you, as you're

01:00:00.840 saying, you know, maybe there's some ego as well that you need to put aside. And, and like you said,

01:00:06.960 that was so good Kip that, you know, just you bringing up the fact, um, of him looking at it,

01:00:13.260 is it true or not? And then, and what are you willing to do about it?

01:00:18.340 We'll give credit to Ryan for bringing up the whole truth conversation. Cause that's,

01:00:22.160 that's changed to the shift as on all these questions as I read them. Well, uh, all right.

01:00:27.780 William, Matt Cofer, how do I start finding a dream and goal? I'm having a really hard time finding a

01:00:34.600 purpose. I have a career, a fairly decent one, but it's not something that push that something to

01:00:40.840 push towards. I know I'm supposed to be doing something different, but I have no idea what

01:00:45.900 or how to find it. Hmm. Start with what maybe things you like, maybe things you'd like to do,

01:00:54.860 things you're interested in and finding out more about those things and what it takes on the business

01:01:01.740 end. And then if, if you're not feeling fulfilled in your career and what you're doing, uh, to make

01:01:08.760 money, then maybe you'd start a little side hustle to see if that's interest you. And sometimes that

01:01:14.980 side hustle and the feeling that you get of the excitement of it, whether you're making money or

01:01:20.380 not, sometimes just the effort of putting into that, that if you could get passionate about it

01:01:25.740 is exciting enough to keep you going to your job, just, you know, and then you can't wait to get

01:01:31.440 home and, and whatever else. And, um, so I, uh, I would say, start there, just start searching for

01:01:37.840 things that you're interested in. And now maybe you start and you don't get passionate about it.

01:01:44.220 Cool. Then look for something else you're interested in and maybe start trying that as well. And it's

01:01:50.980 amazing what incorporating something that you can get passionate about can do to improve all of the

01:01:57.860 other areas of your life. And it's, uh, it could be a number of different things. It could be, I mean,

01:02:06.760 I'm a late onset hunter. I started bow hunting, you know, now six or seven years ago. And before that I

01:02:12.940 never did it. And now I'm super proficient and I think about it all the time and I'd love doing it.

01:02:18.060 And it's something I'm super passionate about. It's when I get to go out and do it, I'm a better

01:02:24.120 person. I'm less grumpy. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm a better husband and father. I, I feel better about

01:02:32.620 myself for some reason when I can go out and, um, and have success when I go out on, on hunts.

01:02:40.360 And, um, and that's something, you know, eight, nine years ago, I wouldn't, if you would have told me

01:02:46.000 I'd even be interested, I would have thought you were crazy. And so, but I, I got interested in

01:02:51.620 sourcing more of my food and especially my meat. And, um, and that got me interested in having

01:02:58.020 conversation. I started asking around a friend happened to be in town. I asked him and he's super

01:03:04.180 passionate about bow hunting and, and he started for the same reasons. And so he was a great resource

01:03:10.380 for me and help me. And, and, um, and then it became a passion of mine. And, and so, but it

01:03:16.140 wasn't, I would have never thought it was, but it was getting interested in one thing, one part of my

01:03:22.240 life. I wanted to change or improve, started asking questions to people I knew who tried it out or, or

01:03:28.020 were in that arena and it turned into a passion. You know, there's other things that I've thought that

01:03:33.800 too. That didn't, you know, things like golf, like I like golfing. I mean, it's not, I'm not

01:03:40.040 passionate about it. I was told a long time ago, like, if you want to find more business deals and

01:03:44.720 stuff like that, start golfing. So I did it for that, got interested in it. I started doing it a

01:03:49.700 bunch. And then I was literally on the golf course one day and figured out I'd rather be surfing.

01:03:55.780 So like, why am I spending four hours here on this golf course? I could have spent the same four hours.

01:04:01.020 I could be surfing somewhere, you know, I could have spent the same time, the same money, the same

01:04:05.120 effort doing something I'm passionate about and that I love instead of being here. And so I don't

01:04:10.800 look at that as waste of time. I just, it was actually great for me to figure that out because

01:04:15.660 then I could be more effective with my time and do the things that made me a better human.

01:04:21.900 Totally. You know, here's the interesting thought. Cause I'm thinking from Whaling's perspective,

01:04:26.520 right? Like I, I'm self-evaluating and I went into IT cause it sounded like a good idea,

01:04:34.300 not because it was a dream or a goal or a passion. Um, but things have evolved in a way

01:04:42.120 that now, and it sounds cheesy. I don't, I don't know why I don't like to use the word like

01:04:48.120 my dream or my passion or whatever, but, but nonetheless, I think there's alignment.

01:04:53.160 There's currently alignment in my life around what I do really well, what I really enjoy

01:04:59.280 and what I do for work. There's great, super important. Right? So important. And so then

01:05:05.960 I have to ask myself, well, how did I get here? Right? Because the alignment is not in the space

01:05:09.800 of IT. So it was by chance. Here's a thought. I think that whenever I've had a job, I try to

01:05:19.860 magnify it always, whatever it is that I do. And I think when we do that, we'll naturally bring our

01:05:27.660 talents and our passions into whatever the job is. Right? So if you're a really social guy, let's,

01:05:34.640 let's say you're just a charismatic guy that, that people just love being around you. And your job

01:05:43.660 is to clean an office space. Now you could get the job done, put your headphones on and just clean the

01:05:54.640 office space and get the job done and leave. And, and, and then submit a question to the order man

01:05:59.500 podcast and going, you know what? I need to find passion in my, in, in what I do, or that guy that

01:06:07.420 looks at cleaning the office and goes, you know what, this is not for me, but you know, I'm going to

01:06:11.300 magnify this thing. I'm going to have fun with this and I'm bringing my talents to the table.

01:06:15.440 That guy's probably not wearing his headphones. I said, that guy is probably walking through the

01:06:20.100 front office and saying hi to the front office lady. Hey, how are you doing today? You having a

01:06:24.640 great day? Yeah. Oh man, today's such a great day. Having a conversation. Come over to my desk and say,

01:06:30.480 man, working late again, huh? Man, how often do you work late at night? And I, we have a conversation

01:06:36.500 about how, why I'm always in the office at 8 PM at night when no one else is in the office. And,

01:06:44.180 and I form a relationship with this guy. I like this guy. He's a cool cat. I have a good conversation

01:06:49.380 with him. He starts figuring out through magnifying his job, what he's good at. And he goes, geez,

01:06:56.340 what am I good at? Talking to people. I have a great time talking with people. And then all of a sudden

01:07:02.740 he starts finding his talent and his passion in the work that he's currently doing. And then before

01:07:10.060 you know it, someone goes, Hey, you know what, Bob, you know what you're really good at? You're

01:07:15.880 really good at just talking with people. Will you do new employee orientations for when we do new

01:07:22.080 hires? Cause you're so great. And everyone feels valuable about like how you show up and the way the

01:07:27.400 conversation you have. And now all of a sudden opportunities present themselves because we

01:07:32.020 magnified what was already in our lap. I actually honestly believe I have good alignment in those

01:07:40.000 areas right now in my life due to one factor. Cause I magnified what I had. That's it. And eventually

01:07:47.520 someone says, geez, Kip, you're a really good communicator. And for whatever reason, and it sounds

01:07:53.220 even odd saying it cause I feel a little embarrassed about it, but it's like, you somehow have a way to

01:07:58.960 inspire and motivate people. I would have never had that on my radar would have never been a thing

01:08:05.360 for me. If it wasn't just me being me and trying to do whatever was in my lap and magnify it and do

01:08:13.060 it well. And before you know it all said, and I realized I have a talent for something. I had no idea

01:08:18.100 I had a talent for zero church is the same similar thing. You know, this Sean, we have opportunities

01:08:23.620 to teach often. I got a calling to teach gospel doctrine, Kip Sorensen farm boy from Elsinore

01:08:32.320 didn't even know I was LDS until I was like in seventh grade, because I wanted to go to a Catholic

01:08:36.400 church. And my mom was like, no, no, no, we're this. And I'm like, what's that? You're like,

01:08:41.220 literally I don't consider myself a scholar in gospel, but I wanted to magnify that calling.

01:08:48.100 I took it really serious. And, and ironically enough, it's a talent I have. Apparently I have

01:08:55.560 people like no joke. Someone last Sunday, Sunday before last came up to me and said, Kip,

01:09:00.460 my prayer is answered. And I'm like, what are you talking about? He's like, seriously,

01:09:04.200 I literally have prayed that you would start teaching gospel doctrine again, because I am so

01:09:09.080 edified when you teach. Wow. What weird, right? Like doesn't even, that's not a thing for me. Like I'm

01:09:16.380 not walking around with this perception, but that was made possible just because I magnified what was

01:09:22.560 given to me. So I'm a little bit on a soapbox here, but it's like, it's like, man, this opportunity for

01:09:27.680 us to dream and find our goals and alignment between passion and talents. I think they're on

01:09:34.120 our laps. I think they're on our laps right now with wherever we are. And when we magnify,

01:09:40.780 our God-given talents will show up and people will see them and opportunities will present

01:09:47.440 themselves. I don't want to take away from anything that you've said, Sean, because part of that is

01:09:52.140 someone might go, oh, Kip, you're so great at this. And I'm like, well, great, but maybe I have

01:09:57.640 a ceiling where I'm at, right? To use that talent or that thing that I love doing. So I'm now going to

01:10:03.900 go try something else, right? And I'm going to go try this thing and I need to try things, but I would

01:10:08.860 have never even known what those were without me taking some action. Yeah, no, that's great.

01:10:15.120 Profound. I had nothing to add to that. I think it's the perfect way to end it, actually. That was

01:10:19.480 awesome. All right. Tyler Henderson, compliments are so weird. Like I feel like a full transparency.

01:10:28.340 How do you deal with compliments? Do you deal with compliments? Super awkward. No, no, no, not at all.

01:10:33.260 I literally like them, but I don't like it. Yeah. I get weird fidgety when people do it. Yeah.

01:10:38.840 I don't take it. Well, and this has to be the last one. It's rapid fire on this one.

01:10:43.280 All right. Sorry. Tyler Henderson. I'm a 29 year old husband and father of two great boys,

01:10:48.380 a six-year-old and a one-year-old. I have so much to learn, but I can tell a huge difference in my

01:10:54.260 maturity level as a father at age 29 than I was at age 23. That said, what are a few things that you

01:11:01.740 wish you would have known as a young father? What advice would you give a younger version of yourself

01:11:06.820 as a young dad? I would have evaluated earlier what I want my family life to look like and be like

01:11:21.220 the actions necessary to be able to do that. And then compare it to how I grew up. So I could get

01:11:30.680 rid of, we were talking about our truths. So I could reevaluate the truth from my truth and,

01:11:37.780 and, and then take appropriate actions to change my habits in some of those areas. And most of it was

01:11:46.780 reactionary. I still do it to this day. The IC helped a ton with that and, and starting to battle

01:11:52.860 plant coming in and, and realizing like, I hadn't been taking actions quarterly towards being a better

01:11:58.940 husband and father. So what are some things I need to do? One of the things I need to do is stop

01:12:03.600 yelling at my kids, stop reacting, stop, you know, and, and cause the way I grew up, it was, yeah,

01:12:10.060 yeah. I got, it's like something you did something and instantly that triggered my mom or my grandma.

01:12:15.200 And before you know it, not only are they screaming at you, but they're hitting you or whatever. Right.

01:12:19.140 Like that's how I grew up. And I thought that's, that's how you do it, you know? And, and so I just,

01:12:24.300 I wish I would have gotten rid of that faster. I mean, I'm there now, which is great, but I,

01:12:29.260 I wish that would have happened earlier where I found more of how it can be and the idea of what

01:12:35.760 I wanted and then started implementing and changing some of the habits to get me there.

01:12:40.840 Totally. Yeah, man. I probably the same. I, the only other thing that crosses my mind is,

01:12:47.180 you know, I'm a better father because I'm a better person, you know? And so I, I would connect

01:12:54.240 to that too, you know, like how much of my baggage and my shortcomings, I'm just projecting on my kids.

01:13:00.840 And, and if I, if I just shaped up and was a better person, I would just be a better father,

01:13:08.580 you know? And so those are things that cross my mind. And then, and then the last thing is just,

01:13:14.480 I don't know, maybe I'm getting old, man, but just time it's passing this man. And I,

01:13:21.660 you're never going to get it back. You know, I look at my older boys and I, you know, I wish that

01:13:29.580 there were babies. I wish they, I wish I had that time with them again. You know what I mean? Cause I

01:13:36.420 miss it. And, um, but I won't. So taking, taking advantage of the time that we have and really

01:13:46.720 loving. And, and, and this is one thing that I think Asia and I have done really, we're, we're

01:13:51.760 old parents. We have like two batches. I'm like my oldest boy is 23 and I have a four-year-old,

01:13:58.600 right? That's a massive gap. And we call it batch one to batch two. We're better with batch two

01:14:04.280 because we're loving it. That's why we're loving it. We're so, everybody says that by the way,

01:14:12.020 and it doesn't even have to be batch one, batch two. It could be your oldest from your youngest.

01:14:16.820 Everybody says they did better with their youngest than with their oldest, because you learn so much

01:14:21.340 with your oldest. Yeah. But I think the biggest thing we learn is just to take it,

01:14:25.960 take advantage of it. Be present while you have it. Just be fully present.

01:14:32.920 All right, Sean. Thank you, man. This is a good conversation.

01:14:38.160 All right. So gentlemen, um, a couple of things called the actions to learn more about the iron

01:14:42.880 council. It's closed for membership, but if you want to sign up for the newsletter, learn more so

01:14:47.240 you can sign up next quarter, that's order of man.com slash iron council. We filled it some

01:14:52.400 questions from our Facebook group today. That's facebook.com slash group slash order of man.

01:14:56.900 And as always connect with us on the social medias for to connect with Mr. Mickler. That's at Ryan

01:15:02.700 Mickler on Twitter and Instagram. And for all other things, go to order of man.com, whether it's the

01:15:08.280 store or, uh, accessing other content, subscribing to the podcast, as well as accessing the YouTube

01:15:16.040 channel. Uh, Sean, thank you, man. I always appreciate our conversations and the opportunity I have to chat

01:15:22.840 with you and gentlemen, until next time, take action and become the men you were meant to be.

01:15:29.040 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life

01:15:33.560 and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - January 18, 2023

Overcoming Perfectionism, Tips for Building Habits, and Advice for a Young Dad ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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