Overcoming the Emotion of Separation & Divorce, Finding Joy in Life, and Establishing Personal Sovereignty ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING
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Summary
On this episode of the Iron Council Podcast, we have our good friend, Ryan, join us from the other side of the pond. We talk about the 4th of July, travel plans, and what it means to be a man.
Transcript
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You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.
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When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.
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You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.
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This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.
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At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.
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Hip, what's up man? It's great to see you from the other side of the pond.
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It is. Well, it's not any different really than how we normally connect, right?
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But you just happen to be in France instead of in Northern Utah.
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Yeah. Well, I mean, if we could do it between Utah and Maine, I don't know.
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Well, I'm glad you can make it work. I wasn't sure. I'm like, oh man, I think I'm riding solo today.
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And I don't know. You've said it in the past. When there's two of us, the dynamic is just better.
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We feed off of each other, different perspectives. I like having you as a co-host here.
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And it's just way better when there's two of us instead of just me or just you, I'm sure, feel the same way.
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And it's funny too, while I'm here, Asia did ask at one point, she's like, well, can't Ryan record alone?
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Does it make sense? This isn't about, I don't know.
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How many times have you gotten a message from someone on Instagram that's like, oh man, thank you so much.
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And what did we do? We just participated in a conversation and they did as well by listening.
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And there's huge power in it for all of us just by having the dialogue and the conversation around important things.
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Well, now Asia's on my list of conversations that, uncomfortable conversations that her and I are going to need to have.
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I think I mentioned this to you, but she, and the joke is that she's instable.
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So, when I create stability with my very cautious way of doing things, she gets antsy and she's like, we've been in Utah now for, you know, I think we moved back to Utah from New York.
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This is every summer, we're going to go live somewhere else for a month or two.
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And let's be honest, and it's not as clean and cut dry as that, is we want to culture our children, right?
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We think it's good for them to experience other cultures.
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And so, this is one of the ways that we plan to do that.
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You really have to worry when she starts saying things like, I'm thinking about wanting another baby.
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It's when she's like, I think I want another baby.
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When I posed for these questions in our exclusive Brotherhood of the Iron Council, I asked for questions regarding sovereignty.
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As of the release of this podcast, yesterday was the 4th of July.
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So, obviously, a lot of freedom, a lot of independence, sovereignty, if you will.
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So, I figured we'd stick with the theme for another day or two.
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Hopefully, we can stick with the theme forever because individual sovereignty and personal liberty is crucial.
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And there's some good questions like you alluded to.
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So, you know, and Ryan mentioned something, the Iron Council.
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To learn more about the Iron Council, go to orderofman.com slash Iron Council.
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We've got a really good cohort of guys, new guys who came in as well.
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A large percentage of them already through the start here segment.
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And in fact, I think we do have a couple of Forge guys.
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Forge are new guys, for those of you who don't know.
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Yag is, my wife expresses that she feels like I'm waiting for her vibe to change instead of being present and causing her vibe to change.
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What might be some actions or ideas to leave my wife and family by being present and in terms of vibe, mood, positivity?
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I think as a leader, people are going to respond off of your energy.
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I mean, that's what you're talking about, vibe, right?
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I think people are going to respond based on your energy.
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So, if you're anxious or depressed or, you know, high strung or any number of emotions or whatever you could be feeling, then people are going to pick up on that and it's going to affect and impact their behavior.
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So, as a leader, I'm not saying we don't have those feelings or we don't even express them.
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But if you're looking for your environment to change or for people around you to change, I think it was maybe Gandhi who's attributed with the quote of be the change that you want to see in the world.
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So, what I would start with is I would do an inventory.
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And by the way, this, as it relates to sovereignty, this is really important because what a lot of people will do is they'll try to change other people.
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Like, oh, this person is not behaving the way they want them to.
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They're not responding the way that I think they should.
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They're not doing X, Y, and Z or they're doing this and I don't like it.
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And so, it's all about trying to change that other person.
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And a lot of the times we do that, at least I do, through subtle manipulation tactics.
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Whether it's guilting them into do something or gaslighting them into a certain behavior, it's obviously not healthy.
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So, the best thing that we can do in order to regain and maintain control of our sovereignty is to focus on the only thing that we can, which is ourselves.
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So, if you're noticing there's a vibe, like you said, at your home that you're not excited about or maybe she's not thrilled with, then what is your energy?
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And what specifically can you do to change your own behavior, which will naturally permeate throughout the walls of your home?
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So, very simply, and I almost hate to say it this way because it sounds oversimplified, but I think it's true, is are you working out?
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That's a big deal because if you're not in shape, you're going to be tired.
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You're not going to be able to engage and be present, which is a word you used, for your family if you're out of shape.
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And by the way, not just the physical aspect of that, but the physiological stuff that's going on in your brain about feeling better.
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It's just the dopamine and the endorphins and everything else that are now released and coursing through your veins that actually have been proven to make you feel better.
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And don't you think if you feel better, you're going to engage with your family in a different way?
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Another element of it is you should have a notepad somewhere or a journal so that you can start documenting these feelings.
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If you're holding on to them, if you're not expressing them, they're caged, they're bottled up, and they're seeping out in little ineffective and maybe even inappropriate ways that are impacting the way your children see you show up and the way that, in this case, your wife sees you show up.
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And also, you need, in addition to that, a group of men who you can communicate with on a different level or in a different way than you might be able to with your wife.
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And that's not to say you need to keep secrets from her or not share things with her or not even be open and humble about the shortcomings that you feel.
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I think we should work on that, but we can talk with men in a different way and they're going to give us something that we can't get from our significant others.
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It's taking care of your mental and emotional health by having journaling and then having a good, solid band of brothers in your corner that you can share and offload some of these feelings and situations that you're dealing with because they can give you something different.
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The only thing that I'd add is, and it's just, I'm projecting on a failure of mine, is I feel better when I work out.
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I feel better when I go to work and I get things done, but I have a tendency to do it kind of too intense and I'm too serious about it all and I'm getting things done and I'm not a joy to be around.
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It's totally possible to do those things and not be enjoyable and so have fun and that's where our influence comes from.
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That's even something that's present for me, even at work lately.
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You know, I keep talking about culture and about the importance of loving what we do and being excited about our jobs, but I'm walking around like I'm taking someone's head off, right?
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And everyone's like, geez, man, he's so intense.
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It's like, you know what, if I lighten up a little bit, I'd be way more enjoyable to be around, you know, and that would uplift other people in another way.
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I mean, we said something about Matt Jenkins a few weeks ago, but it's the Matt Jenkins factor.
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Yeah, I don't know if you have to go that extreme because Matt's pretty exciting to be around, maybe almost too much.
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But I don't know, it's just something to be added to.
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It's just, you know, life is short, have fun and people want to follow you and your kids will have more of a desire to follow you if what you're doing is joyous and fun and not just intense and grind.
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That's something I could definitely work on as well.
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Like even listen to my answer is like, do these three steps and you change the vibe in your home.
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I was walking down the, I was walking down the hallway.
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I just walk intense, intentional, highly intentional when I walk somewhere and my assistants and I came walking to my desk and she, she's laughing.
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And I'm like, what she's all, I just want to let you know, it's really funny.
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She's like, someone mentioned to me the other day.
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They're like, man, when Kip's walking, I almost like he's walking to a fight.
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And I was like, okay, mental note, smile a little bit, maybe say some highs, you know, lighten up.
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You and I are a kind of experience from that standpoint.
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Spencer Hancock, how do you reconcile having your, how do you reconcile having your individual
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sovereignty as a man without alienating your spouse or coming off as selfish?
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I think the first thing you need to realize there's a mindset around that.
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The mindset is I'm not doing this for selfish gain.
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I'm doing this so I can be in better service to other people, the people that I care about.
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And I think if that's the mindset you approach self-care, we'll just call it self-care.
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Then it's, it's not going to come across like that because you're doing it for that reason.
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And so that means you're considerate of the way that your decisions might be impacting other
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So for example, if you're training for, and I know you've done this, Kip, you're
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training for a big event, maybe it's a Ragnar like we ran a month or two ago or a Spartan
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If you're doing it for selfish reasons only, you're probably not going to be able to take
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into consideration the way other people see it.
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And that combative attitude is what is portrayed.
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And then of course, it feels like you're at odds with the people that you care about.
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But if you're doing it and you're thinking to yourself, because it's a deeply entrenched
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mindset of I'm doing this, taking care of myself so I can show up more fully as a husband
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or as a father, a leader in my community, an owner of this business, and that's the
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mindset, then you're actually going to start taking people into consideration.
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So if it's your wife, for example, then you might say, Hey, hon, I'm going to be doing this
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And my training schedule is dot, dot, dot, but I want to make sure that it works for us.
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And I want to make sure it works with the kids.
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This is important to me and I'm going to do it, but what would be the best way to approach
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So you and I still get time and I'm still engaged with the kids and let her have an
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You know, if you're only taking time for yourself, people are going to see it as you being disengaged
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But if you explain to them honestly and openly about why you might be absent, then they're
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not left to fill in the blanks about what's going on.
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Your employees will, your family will, your clients will.
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If you're absent or disengaged for any reason, they're going to jump to assumptions and conclusions
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And typically they're not going to be favorable.
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But if on the other hand, you include them in that decision-making process, or at least let
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them know what's going on, then there's no assumptions to be made.
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But then the other thing I would say is you need to continually look for feedback.
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And I've talked a lot about this concept of work-life balance.
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And I think what most people are looking for, that's what they're looking for.
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I had to do the math real quick because I was a little slower on that.
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But what they're looking for is they're looking for the perfect ratio and it doesn't exist.
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You actually might hit the perfect ratio, but it's going to change in the next 60 seconds
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because there's going to be something new going on in your life.
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If one of your kids breaks his leg or has a girlfriend issue you need to focus on or
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needs a little more attention or something at work, a fire comes out and you lose a big
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So you need to develop and focus more time on that.
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Maybe even in the evening, it's like, oh man, we just lost a big client.
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Guys, I know it's six o'clock, but I got to do this.
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And so even if I gave you a perfect formula today or a ratio, it would change in 60 seconds.
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And so the point I'm making is that you're always going to be looking for feedback because
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you're going to find that people in your life are going to need different things from you
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So if it's training for a triathlon, that's a season.
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And so you're going to devote more time to that than you would to family.
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But then there's other times where maybe the family is having a hard time or maybe they're
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And so you need to devote a little more time to that.
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And we need to constantly be looking and evaluating the feedback we're receiving from the people
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who are impacted by our decisions so we can adjust our percentages accordingly.
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But that's also determined by what you need and what other people in your life need from
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You know, I like what you said here, as well as the previous questions, like the paradigm
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shift of sovereignty is not about like a selfish desire, but sovereignty around your individual
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I mean, I'm trying to think of an exception to that as you say that.
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I don't think that we make these types of decisions in a vacuum.
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So even if that were true, I don't think that you can improve yourself and not have it rub
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I mean, a life of fulfillment is going to be found in a higher sense of purpose and meaning,
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which is usually found in the service of others, whether it's family, your spouse, your
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So if that, if that, if your sovereignty is to serve, then, then I think that's kind of
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the ideal level of sovereignty versus just individual focus.
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Well, this is why I don't like some of these more extreme men's movements, like Meg Tao men
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Um, even the Andrew Tate audience tends to go more towards this route of I'm doing this
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And it's at the expense of other people, not in service to other people.
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Um, I think you're going to alienate a lot of people around you.
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When I tend to get self-centered, where I'm doing things at other people's expense, I can
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sugarcoat it and tell myself and them that I'm doing it for me to serve them better.
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But if the reality is I'm doing it at their expense, that's too extreme.
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And you're going to end up alienating the people that you love.
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So I choose to look at my own self-care and my own sovereignty as inextricably connected
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with my ability to serve people I care about and have a desire to serve and lead.
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Matt Hadfield, since writing the book, Sovereignty,
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how has your view or understanding of personal sovereignty changed or developed?
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And what is your main takeaway in relationship to sovereignty over the past five years since
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Well, the biggest way that it's changed, I think, is that I've learned, and I always knew
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We know this intuitively, but sometimes we don't really, we have to experience it.
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And what I'm experiencing, especially over the past 12 months, is that not everything is
00:19:04.140
But until you actually experience it and you're left with the hardship to dealing with things
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outside of your control, you don't really understand it.
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I mean, some of my external circumstances are a direct result of the way that I showed up,
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And some of it, even though I'm working towards improving myself and fixing myself and getting
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better and doing more self-care, but doing it in relationship to how I serve other people,
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there's still decisions that other people can make.
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And there's still factors that you just can't influence.
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And it's really hard to deal with when that's the case.
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But what I'm also finding is that if you do it right and you can look at yourself in the
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mirror and say, you know, if I was dropped into this situation, this unfortunate situation
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again, and I would play it the exact same way I did today, then that's all a man can
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But if you could look at yourself honestly and say, I would do it the exact same way,
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And it doesn't always make it easier because you're still wrestling with the fallout of
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your decisions, but at least, you know, you're trying to do it right moving forward.
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At least you have integrity around how you're dealing with it.
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Ryan, how do you, how do you struggle with or find that balance of what, like, because
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no, I'm not obviously doing a good job asking this question.
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Um, based upon what you just said, I think sometimes guys may latch onto that, right?
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We talk all the time about like, no, your impact does matter.
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And there's this line and it's a slippery slope sometimes I think, right?
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When, when guys could hold onto this, uh, it's outside my realm of control.
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Versus being powerful and realizing that much more is in your realm of control than not.
00:21:13.640
But same breath, going back to what you just said, like, how do you deal with not trying
00:21:19.280
to control everything and realizing that, you know what, this is out of my control.
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How do you, how do you identify that for yourself and know that you are acting in integrity
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So I've wrestled that last part of that question and it's very insightful and I'll answer the
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full thing, but I like what you said right there.
00:21:40.640
Um, here, here's what I would suggest is a great litmus test.
00:21:43.580
And when I use this, I can evaluate why I'm doing the things I do, because it's easy to
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say I'm doing things out of the goodness of my heart.
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But really you're probably most of the time, myself included are doing things for selfish
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Or to manipulate of some sort, which is self-selfish gain.
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So the, I think a question you could ponder on is if nobody saw me engaged in this behavior
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or there was no reward I would receive from acting the way I am, would I still do it this
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If you would, then that you, you're, you're aligned with your moral belief because you
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know, Hey, I'm just going to do this because it's the, it's the right thing to do, regardless
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of whether or not I get praise and accolades from other people, regardless of whether or
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not it benefits me in some relationship somehow, that's a person of integrity.
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And I, and I'm look, I'm not painting myself as that person of integrity.
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I'm, I'm saying that that's what I want to live towards.
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I want to live and you know why this is so valuable is because that's ultimate sovereignty
00:22:49.260
because you are unaffected by the way people respond to that behavior because you're doing
00:22:55.600
it not for the expectation of anything in return, but simply because it's the right
00:23:00.560
Now, if I do something and I know it's the right thing to do, my behavior is not going
00:23:07.540
If you happen to respond negatively to what I do, my behavior is going to be the same.
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It's not going to be, uh, changed positively or changed in some way because you're, you're
00:23:19.120
And then I begin to exploit the relationship because I'm not doing it for you.
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I'm doing it because it's the right thing to do.
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That's pretty difficult, especially when it comes to relationships that we have with people
00:23:29.120
we care about, you know, our kids, for example, you know, there might be things about the
00:23:33.320
way that you want to show up as an example and you know, it's, you want to show up as
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an example to them so you can use it as fuel to make better choices.
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But is that the only reason you should be doing it?
00:23:45.240
I think if you can go even deeper than that, you go to the gym because it's the right
00:23:49.320
Oh, and also as a side benefit, my kids will see me in shape and I'll be able to be with
00:23:57.360
So ultimate sovereignty is doing things that are intrinsically the right thing to do and separating
00:24:02.980
yourself from the result, which is obviously easier said than done.
00:24:07.180
Well, and this is interesting because there's, there's a natural slippery slope.
00:24:13.080
Where, where, because it's aligned with quote unquote, the right thing, then we just latch
00:24:20.000
onto it and go, I'm doing the right thing, but the right thing for the wrong reason is
00:24:28.300
Well, and I'll, and I'll even challenge your, and I know what you're saying.
00:24:31.760
So like, I'm not just debating semantics here, but I'll challenge the concept.
00:24:39.360
No, let's just blow this out of the water before it gets to the flow.
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There's no such thing as righteous manipulation.
00:24:46.620
It's manipulation by its definition is exploiting behaviors or people or resources for your own
00:24:55.940
I mean, I understand the spirit of what you're saying because it's totally shrouded in righteousness.
00:25:02.600
I just want to bring that out there because I think there is something as righteous influence
00:25:07.080
or righteous leadership or even righteous persuasion.
00:25:12.400
But I, but I think this, uh, the concept of righteous manipulation, I understand what you're
00:25:19.040
We bring it up, but I also think it's really important that we understand like, just because
00:25:32.040
We say that all the time, but they don't, they don't justify the means.
00:25:38.120
And if you do that enough, you're inevitably going to win and you may not win in, in the
00:25:45.340
There actually might be negative consequences in the moment for doing the right thing, but
00:25:50.480
over the long haul, it's going to serve you and other people.
00:26:00.620
Well, that's why these conversations are powerful.
00:26:03.020
Well, and it isn't an ironic, everything that we just said, isn't that what we all justify
00:26:08.000
We always justify our actions as quote unquote, being righteous so that way we can live with
00:26:12.820
So, you know, we typically always try to shroud everything in righteousness, you know, that
00:26:22.060
Can I say one other thing about the concept of manipulation?
00:26:32.120
I've been accused of this and it's an accurate reflection is I'm really good with my
00:26:38.300
I can read people pretty well and I'm, I'm really good at that.
00:26:43.420
So I have to be very cautious of not doing it even subconsciously.
00:26:47.840
But the reason manipulation is a problem is because you're not letting other people have
00:26:55.860
You can't say that you value individual liberty.
00:26:58.660
If you're not willing to give other people their liberty, because you don't, you don't actually
00:27:04.220
You value it for yourself, but not for other people.
00:27:10.200
So the reason manipulation is a problem is because a couple of things, you're either
00:27:17.960
So they're not making an informed decision or you're giving them false and faulty information
00:27:25.680
And that means you're not treating them fairly.
00:27:29.380
So now on the other hand, if you give people all of the information and you present it in
00:27:34.720
a way that you think is benefit, there's nothing wrong with that, but you give people all of
00:27:37.840
the information and then allow them to make informed decisions.
00:27:40.920
Now you're somebody who actually ascribes to the concept of individual liberty, personal
00:27:46.100
sovereignty, because you're trusting that people can make decisions for themselves.
00:27:51.200
And if they can't, then you're still going to help them, right?
00:27:53.500
Cause we all mess up, like we all make great decisions and we all make really horrible
00:27:58.380
And when our people make bad decisions, we don't abandon them.
00:28:03.000
We stand by them and we love them and we serve them and we help them work through those
00:28:08.920
bad decisions and the consequences of those bad decisions.
00:28:12.620
And, and the energy of manipulation to keep that train going is exhausting.
00:28:20.560
It is so much better to let them execute, let them be their quote unquote own engine and find
00:28:28.160
alignment and support them than just constantly manipulating them to do what you want.
00:28:35.800
Adam Lewis, what are some strategies to help lead our wives through a hard miscarriage while
00:28:45.620
While having this, I don't understand that last part, leading our wife through a miscarriage
00:28:52.240
Oh, to address us, meaning taking care of our own, like our own issues with, with the
00:28:58.880
I, I'm not always great at this because I don't have, like, I talked about one thing
00:29:28.880
So it's hard for me and man, that's, that's a, I've never experienced that.
00:29:38.800
Um, I, I would say, let me address the second half of that question by taking care of yourself.
00:29:45.640
It goes back to what I said earlier to the, I think it was the first question, making sure
00:29:50.720
that you're taking care of yourself physically by working out, training, moving your body,
00:29:59.460
Cause there's things that you don't in the moment need to be dumping on your wife all
00:30:03.700
So journal and document, and then have your band of brothers.
00:30:07.100
So you can process and work through these things.
00:30:09.060
And by the way, don't not talk about this with your friends.
00:30:13.940
One or more of them have probably gone through a similar experience or are currently going
00:30:18.660
through an experience and they can work you through what you're currently feeling
00:30:22.760
So that, that's what I would say to the second half of the question, man, with the first,
00:30:28.220
I, I feel like anything I would say would be said in ignorance because have you dealt with
00:30:34.860
Um, but, but, but I think, I think the principle is transcendent, right?
00:30:48.040
Um, what's the strategy for you dealing with grief while in the same token being there for
00:30:55.600
those that need you and that are within your realm of care.
00:31:00.620
And, and me personally, I think the answer is, is don't be ready, not like be ready, like
00:31:09.440
So when your dad does die or loved one dies, or your wife has a miscarriage that you're
00:31:15.680
complete in a way that you can deal with hardship.
00:31:19.120
And then that way you can deal with it appropriately and then be in a position to support others.
00:31:25.840
Whether it's opportunities or dealing with hardships, so much of it has to do with being
00:31:34.120
And, and I think we need to be, Jordan Peterson made that quote, right?
00:31:37.760
You want to be the kind of man that at a family's, you know, funeral, you're the one
00:31:42.860
supporting and loving and, and helping others because you don't need it.
00:31:49.120
Cause you've gotten complete with yourself in your mind of how you deal with things.
00:31:53.740
And you're in such a great place that you can deal with those things in a really good
00:31:58.760
I think that's, I think that's powerful, but I also want to address his concern of, I
00:32:03.580
mean, I'm assuming that his wife is him and his wife are dealing with this now.
00:32:22.180
So that might mean, I don't know if you have additional kids, but you know, maybe you take
00:32:26.280
a bigger load of, of helping the kids than maybe you normally would.
00:32:30.620
Maybe instead of working a few late hours or taking lunch breaks, maybe now's the time
00:32:37.300
to go in an hour later and not take a lunch or just bring a sack lunch with you or come
00:32:48.300
And yet here you are coming home an hour earlier, sacrificing your own lunch or sacrificing time
00:32:56.460
You know, maybe it's doing a little bit more around the house.
00:32:59.160
Uh, I don't know what, what she likes or how she feels, but maybe it's taken her on a, on
00:33:04.980
a, you know, a family trip or a little weekend getaway.
00:33:07.600
And I know it's probably hard like to consider a vacation in the midst of what's going on,
00:33:11.920
but I'm not talking about some big elaborate trip.
00:33:14.340
I'm talking about, you know, taking her to dinner and, and maybe getting a hotel somewhere close
00:33:18.900
and setting up a babysitter and just going and enjoying in time and being with each other.
00:33:23.200
Um, you know, sitting down and talking with her coming home with, you know, her favorite
00:33:28.840
I don't writing her a note on the mirror about how much you love her.
00:33:32.260
I think just doing something maybe out of the ordinary and different would let her know.
00:33:39.100
I think sometimes we think we need to sit down and talk about all these things and we should.
00:33:43.520
And there probably will come a time where you will do that if you have not already, but also
00:33:51.480
And maybe you can say it differently by leaving a note or by coming home early or by buying her,
00:33:56.820
you know, flowers and letting her know you're thinking about her.
00:34:00.540
Um, or, or this little mini staycation I was talking about, like, there's some things here
00:34:04.260
that you can do if you really try to tune into what she's all about.
00:34:08.600
Well, and I interrupted you, Ryan, but you were saying it goes back to that other question,
00:34:16.560
It seems maybe that's not the case, but it totally will.
00:34:19.220
The second thing that you mentioned is journaling your thoughts and feelings to get those out
00:34:24.540
and then having your band of brothers and those around you that you can talk with and strategize
00:34:31.080
with and, you know, express your concerns and get ideas from them and et cetera.
00:34:44.700
And I, I imagine that's a very difficult situation and I'm sorry to hear that you're
00:34:48.960
Calvin, uh, how has your journey been since the separation from your wife and sharing
00:34:56.760
time with your children and how do you navigate the emotional waves of the separation while
00:35:05.400
Cause that's been a hard one, you know, and, and there's ebbs and flows with all of
00:35:09.060
my children and highs and lows and things that are going well and things that aren't
00:35:13.400
And, you know, it's a challenge that I didn't figure I'd find myself and ever, and yet here
00:35:17.960
So, you know, I think it goes back to what I was saying.
00:35:22.040
I, we keep going back to that default question.
00:35:23.800
I keep going back to that answer because it's true.
00:35:26.260
Keep working out, keep journaling that journaling, by the way, is something I've just recently
00:35:30.040
implemented, hasn't been real long, maybe three, four months.
00:35:34.100
Um, you know, having guys in your corner who you're actually having real conversations
00:35:38.640
I went to lunch with a friend the other day and we had a good conversation because we
00:35:42.660
talked about things that we were struggling with.
00:35:44.600
And normally maybe a year ago or so, I would have not talked about any of that.
00:35:48.080
And I would have just talked about all the things that were going right, but you need
00:35:51.940
to talk about the things that aren't always going right.
00:35:53.900
That's, that's been really helpful for me, but yeah, focusing on them, tricking, trying
00:35:58.220
to communicate with them to varying degrees based on what they're comfortable with.
00:36:02.600
You know, not, not all of my children are totally comfortable with talking about everything
00:36:08.680
So trying to be aware of that, but also push a little bit so that we can have these conversations.
00:36:13.940
Um, so yeah, a lot of things have been good and my own personal development journey has
00:36:19.600
I'm, I'm happier than I've ever been, not ever, but I'm happier than I've been in a long
00:36:25.600
Um, and, and also I've, I've shared this a lot, you know, when people are dealing with
00:36:31.320
hardship, they ask these questions of like, how do you deal with it?
00:36:38.040
And don't we, as men love projects, whether it's building something at the house, building
00:36:42.700
a bookshelf, putting together an Ikea bookshelf at the house, which is like one of the most
00:36:46.900
challenging things, but you know, you feel good when you get the dang thing done.
00:36:49.920
And, um, we like projects and so be the project, you know, it's a perfect time.
00:36:56.660
We're just starting the third quarter of this year, 2023, and there's no greater time than
00:37:07.080
Uh, it's time for me to learn how to communicate more effectively.
00:37:09.960
It's time for me to release some of the trauma or even limiting beliefs, like a limiting
00:37:17.020
belief I had one, as it relates to relationships is, oh, you're not supposed to share that stuff
00:37:21.240
with women and you're not supposed to talk about how you feel or, you know, burden her
00:37:25.940
with any of the, the, the things that you might be dealing with mentally or emotionally.
00:37:30.620
And I, I bought into that and I don't think that's true.
00:37:35.020
I think, I think our, our, our women want partners and I, and I think they want to hear
00:37:40.240
some, I don't think they want to hear you whine and complain and bitch and moan all
00:37:42.680
the time without solutions or see you working towards solutions.
00:37:47.500
I hate that I'm fat and I don't, I shouldn't be this way.
00:37:52.160
I think that's going to diminish some credibility and trust in her eyes.
00:37:55.740
But if you're like, oh, hon, I'm just having a hard time.
00:37:58.100
Cause I look at myself in the mirror and I don't like who I see and who I become.
00:38:06.240
And then you, you actually like you say it, but then you actually start doing that work.
00:38:10.040
And she's like, oh, not only does she see that you're a man of your word, she actually
00:38:18.700
So yeah, I'm trying to, I'm trying to analyze my limiting beliefs and, and just navigate life
00:38:28.900
And let's shore up the deficiencies and weaknesses.
00:38:36.040
If you don't mind me asking, you know, midday today, you, you get hit with the emotional
00:38:43.060
wave of, um, your family, you know, and usually they're dramatic, right?
00:38:48.840
The story I used to say is like, my family's falling apart.
00:38:59.720
How do you navigate that moment of just like, just pissed or angry, sad, all of that emotion
00:39:11.200
Sometimes I, I distract myself with work or something else.
00:39:18.500
It is just a bandaid, but it is, but it is effective.
00:39:21.400
It's not addressing anything personally, but it's how you get past the wave.
00:39:28.800
Like if you have work to do, you've got to do the work, you know, you've talked about
00:39:33.800
You said that as like, man, I started running a lot.
00:39:39.160
Um, but one thing that's helped me is, is, well, two things.
00:39:44.160
Number one, lengthen out the time, the lens in which you're looking at life.
00:39:48.200
Cause in, in these moments, when you look at it, like your relationship with your kids
00:39:56.780
And it's hard, like, it's really hard to deal with.
00:40:03.420
Like, I've had thoughts of like, are my kids going to hate me?
00:40:06.200
Like, are they never going to want to have a relationship with me again?
00:40:09.800
You know, what are they like, or they're going to hold this over us and it's going to
00:40:17.760
And so I look at it, that that's a micro moment of, uh, and it's probably not accurate either.
00:40:25.540
You're just seeing in the moment, maybe one of your kids says something or you have an
00:40:31.940
I'm making this like, you know, this, this window, but if you spread out that time horizon
00:40:36.120
and you look at everything else, it's like, okay, well, we can rebuild this.
00:40:40.080
You know, we can change this and we can have these conversations and we can talk about this
00:40:46.980
I'm just saying it's a blip in the grand scheme of things.
00:40:50.040
Um, so that that's been one way to, to work through it.
00:41:01.520
And the emotion is like the strain on our, my relationship with my children.
00:41:05.680
And in those moments, I think about how can I connect?
00:41:13.860
And it might be a simple text, like, Hey guys, thinking about you today.
00:41:18.400
Or what are you, or asking a question or, Hey, can I come by and, you know, grab you and
00:41:24.960
So there's like, there's these little things that touch points that you can do when you
00:41:30.180
Um, I think we do have to be careful of not using our kids to satisfy our own emotional
00:41:38.780
Cause I, look, I, I would, I have been guilty of that.
00:41:44.280
It becomes a crutch and it's not good for kids either.
00:41:46.960
Um, no, too much pressure, but also, but also they need you.
00:41:50.480
And so there might be moments where you can engage in them in a different or new or unique
00:41:54.540
way or in a way they're interested in, in order to, to connect.
00:42:09.880
Hey, Ryan, I work in a construction industry at a pace of nine one one all the time.
00:42:14.480
We work on an average 12 hours a day or a little more in a roughly physical, a physically,
00:42:21.280
I'm experiencing burnout after only a few months in the, in the company.
00:42:25.380
Or a question is this, how have you dealt with burnout and continue to
00:42:29.920
push through to realize your vision and complete objectives?
00:42:33.140
So if I told you, Hey, Kip, like, let's say you, you hired me to, to, um, you wanted
00:42:48.500
If that's what I said, Hey, Kip, you want me to train you?
00:42:58.200
You would, you might say, okay, for like how long, like what distance, like you would ask
00:43:06.720
Because it's infinitely harder to do something forever or for an unspecified amount of time.
00:43:14.060
And I think that might be what you're running up against right now.
00:43:17.400
And my question to you is how long do you need to do this for?
00:43:21.940
Like, let's forget about the breakneck speed that you're going at, like for how long?
00:43:26.780
Cause I can do that for a sustained period of time.
00:43:31.020
Like you can do it for a sustained period of time.
00:43:41.800
And then you see the light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak.
00:43:44.180
But I think there's some things that you need to ask, maybe some other people in the
00:43:50.500
organization of like, Hey man, I feel like we're just like running and gutting all the
00:43:56.140
Like, don't say it as, as like you're, you're skeptical or, you know, you're like griping
00:44:04.380
Cause that's going to work its way up the chain of command.
00:44:06.140
You might get yourself in trouble, but I think it would be appropriate to say, Hey, we're,
00:44:11.340
I didn't expect it to be like, is it always this pace?
00:44:16.720
Like you might want to clarify, like, uh, you know, so is this, uh, is this normal guys
00:44:21.420
or, uh, yeah, because if it is, I don't know how long that's sustainable for.
00:44:32.400
When I started ordering, man, I did, I did both my financial planning practice and this
00:44:38.700
I think it's important to know what the plan is, what the strategy is.
00:44:41.860
So you could ask a coworker, you might even ask an employer.
00:44:45.020
Again, you're not going to do it from a position of griping.
00:44:53.360
So, you know, if you know what they are, then I think you're going to have the greater
00:44:57.760
ability to be able to drive on the greater ability to keep, keep going on because you
00:45:04.140
know that there's some end or some destination in mind.
00:45:09.540
I think you manage it by taking care of yourself.
00:45:12.120
Again, we're talking about personal sovereignty.
00:45:16.720
Here's one that's counterintuitive that we keep telling you, you need to exercise.
00:45:22.440
You're like, oh, Ryan, I'm already working 12 hour days, I'm doing this.
00:45:27.400
I'm not telling you, you need to train for a bodybuilding competition, but you should wake
00:45:36.960
Maybe, maybe instead of just hurrying and getting out of the house and just like eating,
00:45:42.060
you know, stopping by the convenience store and getting a bunch of junk on the way out,
00:45:44.740
you actually wake up a little earlier and you feel your body correctly by making yourself
00:45:50.560
Maybe at night, you don't stay up so late or you don't have the drinks that you're used
00:45:55.060
to having and you go to bed a little bit earlier.
00:45:58.640
Maybe your lunch break is not always spent with the guys doing whatever it is they do,
00:46:04.940
but maybe your lunch break is, hey, I'm going to go into the car and I'm going to blast the
00:46:10.060
I'm going to eat a good, healthy lunch that me or my wife packed for me.
00:46:13.400
And I'm going to listen to my favorite book or just listen to some music.
00:46:21.300
Like, what can you do for yourself in those moments that are going to, that's going to
00:46:25.140
re-energize you and get you back into the game when you need to be back into the game?
00:46:33.220
And we're, and, and I think some guys might be listening to this and like, well,
00:46:37.360
geez, Ryan, I feel burnt out, but I'm not working 12 hour days and I'm not doing physical
00:46:43.560
I'm sitting at a desk and I feel burnt out and to that, and maybe I'll pose that question
00:46:50.040
But one thought there is most employees that feel burnt out and have like anxiety or stress,
00:46:58.000
A lot of cases is they don't, back to your original point, they don't know what the point
00:47:09.340
They're not bought into like the long game or they think the work that they're doing is
00:47:13.860
being wasted because it's just, it's mundane, stupid things that they shouldn't have to be
00:47:18.180
doing because of some company process or something else.
00:47:21.000
And so be, I, I, I just want to point that out that this could be a burnout that's not
00:47:29.020
And some of it is not knowing the long-term strategy and game.
00:47:34.680
So the better, the clearer you can get about that and the sooner, I think the better you're
00:47:38.200
And by the way, like if anybody's thinking that, like, well, I'm not doing what he's
00:47:42.000
doing and I feel burnt out and I feel bad that I'm burnt out where I'm not working as
00:47:45.480
hard as we don't need to get in the comparison game either.
00:47:52.100
If you feel like if that's what's going on, you address it.
00:47:55.860
It doesn't matter if you think I, I made some posts, these were years ago.
00:47:59.660
And I was saying, you know, how challenging it could be to as, as a business owner.
00:48:03.220
And what I'm dealing with as a business owner, I know is not as significant or challenging,
00:48:08.000
physically intensive or mentally hard as, as other people, but that doesn't negate my experience.
00:48:15.760
And so I had a, one person in particular was like, well, you know, Ryan, you're saying
00:48:24.340
I know like, like for example, law enforcement official officer or, or, or, or a member of
00:48:30.580
our military, just because I have a heart, I'm not saying they don't, I'm not saying that
00:48:37.800
I'm just saying this is a challenge I'm going through right now.
00:48:39.880
And it's separate from what somebody else may be experiencing.
00:48:42.980
So we don't need to compare ourselves to those other hardships.
00:48:49.460
And I know you have a hard stop and the family is now motivated and excited to get going for
00:48:58.560
We mentioned this earlier, the importance of a band of brothers, right?
00:49:02.280
And so to join that band of brothers or to learn more about it, go to orderofman.com
00:49:08.880
And as always connect with Mr. Mickler on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter at Ryan
00:49:18.260
I don't think anybody's going to, I don't know what you even said.
00:49:22.740
And he's got, if you don't know, he's got kids coming around and this little guy and
00:49:26.940
then like a daughter coming to pick up the, it's hilarious.
00:49:37.540
I used to, I used to think that, you know, all of this needed to be perfectly polished
00:49:45.040
We want to, we want to do service to the ones that we're doing.
00:49:52.900
I know you're on your trip with your family, but it means a lot to me that you're here because
00:49:58.720
And guys, I hope you know that this work is important to Kip too.
00:50:01.620
It's important to me, obviously, but it's important to Kip because he wouldn't be on
00:50:05.160
There's a thousand things that you could be doing with your family right now.
00:50:08.780
And I think this also goes to the work-life balance that we were talking about earlier.
00:50:12.420
Like there's some boundaries and there's some things in place.
00:50:18.380
And those are the boundaries that you communicate.
00:50:22.520
You know, we don't expect people to be all in on everything all the time, as long as
00:50:33.640
We'll be back on Friday until then go out there, take action, regain or retain that
00:50:40.100
Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.
00:50:42.860
You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.
00:50:46.600
We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.