Order of Man - Overcoming the Emotion of Separation & Divorce, Finding Joy in Life, and Establishing Personal Sovereignty ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

00:00:00.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your own path.

00:00:05.940 When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.

00:00:10.320 You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong.

00:00:15.320 This is your life. This is who you are. This is who you will become.

00:00:19.500 At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:24.720 Hip, what's up man? It's great to see you from the other side of the pond.

00:00:27.760 I know. Kind of cool.

00:00:30.640 It is. Well, it's not any different really than how we normally connect, right?

00:00:35.600 But you just happen to be in France instead of in Northern Utah.

00:00:40.980 Yeah. Well, I mean, if we could do it between Utah and Maine, I don't know.

00:00:45.940 France seems just a little bit further away.

00:00:48.580 Just a little hop. Just a little hop.

00:00:50.120 Well, I'm glad you can make it work. I wasn't sure. I'm like, oh man, I think I'm riding solo today.

00:00:53.520 And I don't know. You've said it in the past. When there's two of us, the dynamic is just better.

00:01:00.220 We feed off of each other, different perspectives. I like having you as a co-host here.

00:01:04.100 And it's just way better when there's two of us instead of just me or just you, I'm sure, feel the same way.

00:01:09.860 Yeah, totally. I appreciate that.

00:01:11.780 And it's funny too, while I'm here, Asia did ask at one point, she's like, well, can't Ryan record alone?

00:01:18.840 And I'm like, babe, I don't want to.

00:01:21.540 Like, I don't want to not do this call.

00:01:24.740 Does it make sense? This isn't about, I don't know.

00:01:27.560 I mean, we say it time and time again, right?

00:01:29.440 The power of the conversation.

00:01:31.300 And that's all that we're doing.

00:01:32.720 How many times have you gotten a message from someone on Instagram that's like, oh man, thank you so much.

00:01:38.020 And what did we do? We just participated in a conversation and they did as well by listening.

00:01:44.180 And there's huge power in it for all of us just by having the dialogue and the conversation around important things.

00:01:53.560 Well, now Asia's on my list of conversations that, uncomfortable conversations that her and I are going to need to have.

00:01:59.940 So, Asia, I'm disappointed. 0.86

00:02:01.960 I'm really disappointed in you.

00:02:03.980 Well, and it's kind of funny.

00:02:05.660 I think I mentioned this to you, but she, and the joke is that she's instable. 1.00

00:02:10.380 She likes to be instable. 1.00

00:02:11.840 So, when I create stability with my very cautious way of doing things, she gets antsy and she's like, we've been in Utah now for, you know, I think we moved back to Utah from New York.

00:02:23.140 Jeez, like 12 years ago.

00:02:25.180 And she's like, it's time to move.

00:02:27.060 She wants to move.

00:02:28.060 She's ready to go.

00:02:28.720 I'm like, why?

00:02:29.320 Just because, right?

00:02:30.700 And so, this trip is actually our compromise.

00:02:33.500 This is every summer, we're going to go live somewhere else for a month or two.

00:02:40.940 And hopefully that gets it out of her system. 0.66

00:02:44.240 And let's be honest, and it's not as clean and cut dry as that, is we want to culture our children, right?

00:02:50.380 We think it's good for them to experience other cultures.

00:02:52.520 And so, this is one of the ways that we plan to do that.

00:02:55.680 And I'm working while here.

00:02:57.600 So, you know what I mean?

00:02:58.980 You really have to worry when she starts saying things like, I'm thinking about wanting another baby. 0.83

00:03:03.580 Like, I don't know, kind of antsy.

00:03:05.400 That's like traveling is fine.

00:03:07.300 It's when she's like, I think I want another baby.

00:03:09.240 You have to start worrying about it.

00:03:09.820 Is it life hard enough?

00:03:11.020 Yeah.

00:03:11.420 Yeah, totally.

00:03:12.000 All right, man.

00:03:13.720 Well, let's get into some questions.

00:03:14.900 When I posed for these questions in our exclusive Brotherhood of the Iron Council, I asked for questions regarding sovereignty.

00:03:22.900 I figured that'd be really good.

00:03:24.440 As of the release of this podcast, yesterday was the 4th of July.

00:03:27.480 So, obviously, a lot of freedom, a lot of independence, sovereignty, if you will.

00:03:31.880 Sovereign nation.

00:03:32.720 Yes, exactly.

00:03:33.900 So, I figured we'd stick with the theme for another day or two.

00:03:36.780 Hopefully, we can stick with the theme forever because individual sovereignty and personal liberty is crucial.

00:03:42.000 But I figured we'd hit heavy on it this week.

00:03:45.160 Yeah.

00:03:45.320 And there's some good questions like you alluded to.

00:03:48.020 So, you know, and Ryan mentioned something, the Iron Council.

00:03:51.140 To learn more about the Iron Council, go to orderofman.com slash Iron Council.

00:03:55.000 Closed currently.

00:03:56.440 Yeah.

00:03:56.600 But we'll open it back up next quarter.

00:03:59.560 So, stay connected.

00:03:59.860 We've got a really good cohort of guys, new guys who came in as well.

00:04:03.880 They're super engaged.

00:04:05.360 They've got through the start here.

00:04:06.520 A large percentage of them already through the start here segment.

00:04:09.700 Guys have messaged me.

00:04:10.700 They're getting value already.

00:04:11.560 So, it's actually really cool to see.

00:04:13.740 Yeah.

00:04:13.980 And in fact, I think we do have a couple of Forge guys.

00:04:16.560 Good.

00:04:17.180 You know, asking questions today.

00:04:18.280 Forge are new guys, for those of you who don't know.

00:04:19.840 So, those Forge guys are new.

00:04:20.940 Yeah.

00:04:21.060 All right.

00:04:21.300 Let's get into it.

00:04:22.640 All right.

00:04:22.960 Yag is, my wife expresses that she feels like I'm waiting for her vibe to change instead of being present and causing her vibe to change.

00:04:33.740 What might be some actions or ideas to leave my wife and family by being present and in terms of vibe, mood, positivity?

00:04:42.880 Thanks, Ryan.

00:04:44.680 Yeah.

00:04:45.060 I think as a leader, people are going to respond off of your energy.

00:04:49.140 I mean, that's what you're talking about, vibe, right?

00:04:50.680 Is energy.

00:04:51.440 I think people are going to respond based on your energy.

00:04:53.500 So, if you're anxious or depressed or, you know, high strung or any number of emotions or whatever you could be feeling, then people are going to pick up on that and it's going to affect and impact their behavior.

00:05:04.640 So, as a leader, I'm not saying we don't have those feelings or we don't even express them.

00:05:09.880 We should when they're appropriate.

00:05:11.960 But if you're looking for your environment to change or for people around you to change, I think it was maybe Gandhi who's attributed with the quote of be the change that you want to see in the world.

00:05:23.500 Right?

00:05:24.360 So, it all starts with you.

00:05:25.980 So, what I would start with is I would do an inventory.

00:05:28.700 And by the way, this, as it relates to sovereignty, this is really important because what a lot of people will do is they'll try to change other people.

00:05:36.120 I'm guilty of this.

00:05:37.140 Like, oh, this person is not behaving the way they want them to.

00:05:39.520 They're not responding the way that I think they should.

00:05:41.340 They're not giving me enough attention.

00:05:43.360 They're not doing X, Y, and Z or they're doing this and I don't like it.

00:05:46.840 And so, it's all about trying to change that other person.

00:05:49.440 And a lot of the times we do that, at least I do, through subtle manipulation tactics.

00:05:54.420 Whether it's guilting them into do something or gaslighting them into a certain behavior, it's obviously not healthy.

00:06:03.820 So, the best thing that we can do in order to regain and maintain control of our sovereignty is to focus on the only thing that we can, which is ourselves.

00:06:12.560 So, if you're noticing there's a vibe, like you said, at your home that you're not excited about or maybe she's not thrilled with, then what is your energy?

00:06:22.740 Are you the one creating that?

00:06:24.940 And what specifically can you do to change your own behavior, which will naturally permeate throughout the walls of your home?

00:06:32.080 So, very simply, and I almost hate to say it this way because it sounds oversimplified, but I think it's true, is are you working out?

00:06:42.180 Are you training your body every day?

00:06:44.260 Or are you 50, 60 pounds overweight?

00:06:46.780 That's a big deal because if you're not in shape, you're going to be tired.

00:06:51.060 You're going to be lethargic.

00:06:52.440 You're not going to have energy.

00:06:53.700 You're not going to have stamina.

00:06:54.740 You're not going to be able to engage and be present, which is a word you used, for your family if you're out of shape.

00:07:00.040 So, are you going into the gym?

00:07:02.300 And by the way, not just the physical aspect of that, but the physiological stuff that's going on in your brain about feeling better.

00:07:09.540 Don't you feel better when you go to the gym?

00:07:11.620 Why do you feel better?

00:07:12.520 It's just chemicals.

00:07:14.480 It's just the dopamine and the endorphins and everything else that are now released and coursing through your veins that actually have been proven to make you feel better.

00:07:23.240 And don't you think if you feel better, you're going to engage with your family in a different way?

00:07:27.580 So, there's that.

00:07:28.360 Another element of it is you should have a notepad somewhere or a journal so that you can start documenting these feelings.

00:07:35.580 If you're holding on to them, if you're not expressing them, they're caged, they're bottled up, and they're seeping out in little ineffective and maybe even inappropriate ways that are impacting the way your children see you show up and the way that, in this case, your wife sees you show up.

00:07:51.880 And also, you need, in addition to that, a group of men who you can communicate with on a different level or in a different way than you might be able to with your wife.

00:08:02.740 And that's not to say you need to keep secrets from her or not share things with her or not even be open and humble about the shortcomings that you feel.

00:08:10.580 I think we should work on that, but we can talk with men in a different way and they're going to give us something that we can't get from our significant others.

00:08:19.480 So, I think that's the trifecta.

00:08:22.940 It's taking care of your physical health.

00:08:25.640 It's taking care of your mental and emotional health by having journaling and then having a good, solid band of brothers in your corner that you can share and offload some of these feelings and situations that you're dealing with because they can give you something different.

00:08:40.540 That's what I would suggest.

00:08:41.900 The only thing that I'd add is, and it's just, I'm projecting on a failure of mine, is I feel better when I work out.

00:08:50.740 I feel better when I go to work and I get things done, but I have a tendency to do it kind of too intense and I'm too serious about it all and I'm getting things done and I'm not a joy to be around.

00:09:06.220 It's totally possible to do those things and not be enjoyable and so have fun and that's where our influence comes from.

00:09:16.000 That's even something that's present for me, even at work lately.

00:09:18.720 I've been thinking, it's like, man, we got it.

00:09:20.620 You know, I keep talking about culture and about the importance of loving what we do and being excited about our jobs, but I'm walking around like I'm taking someone's head off, right?

00:09:30.000 And everyone's like, geez, man, he's so intense.

00:09:33.100 It's like, you know what, if I lighten up a little bit, I'd be way more enjoyable to be around, you know, and that would uplift other people in another way.

00:09:41.960 I mean, we cracked a joke.

00:09:43.800 I mean, we said something about Matt Jenkins a few weeks ago, but it's the Matt Jenkins factor.

00:09:49.840 Yeah, I don't know if you have to go that extreme because Matt's pretty exciting to be around, maybe almost too much.

00:09:55.940 But I don't know, it's just something to be added to.

00:10:00.120 It's just, you know, life is short, have fun and people want to follow you and your kids will have more of a desire to follow you if what you're doing is joyous and fun and not just intense and grind.

00:10:17.620 Yeah, that's a good point.

00:10:18.280 That's something I could definitely work on as well.

00:10:20.040 Like even listen to my answer is like, do these three steps and you change the vibe in your home.

00:10:27.620 So I think that's it.

00:10:28.900 I'm guilty.

00:10:29.520 That's well said.

00:10:30.920 Yeah, it's funny as a side note, funny thing.

00:10:33.940 I was walking down the, I was walking down the hallway.

00:10:37.740 I just walk intense, intentional, highly intentional when I walk somewhere and my assistants and I came walking to my desk and she, she's laughing.

00:10:46.320 And I'm like, what she's all, I just want to let you know, it's really funny.

00:10:50.740 She's like, someone mentioned to me the other day.

00:10:53.300 They're like, man, when Kip's walking, I almost like he's walking to a fight.

00:10:58.000 He looks dangerous.

00:11:01.180 That's funny.

00:11:02.000 Like he's angry.

00:11:02.520 And I was like, okay, mental note, smile a little bit, maybe say some highs, you know, lighten up.

00:11:09.560 You got, you got stuff to do, man.

00:11:11.540 Forget about all the pleasantries.

00:11:12.900 Just go get it done.

00:11:14.800 That's funny.

00:11:15.800 Totally.

00:11:16.980 You and I are a kind of experience from that standpoint.

00:11:19.640 I know.

00:11:20.260 Yeah.

00:11:20.640 You know what?

00:11:21.740 Skip our answers.

00:11:23.040 Just find, you know, Google that.

00:11:24.340 Do the opposite.

00:11:24.800 I'm just joking.

00:11:25.320 Do the opposite.

00:11:25.960 We have to do.

00:11:26.300 Spencer Hancock, how do you reconcile having your, how do you reconcile having your individual

00:11:35.820 sovereignty as a man without alienating your spouse or coming off as selfish?

00:11:41.940 I think the first thing you need to realize there's a mindset around that.

00:11:45.620 And the mindset is you're not doing it.

00:11:49.260 This is hard.

00:11:50.320 I just want to process this for a minute.

00:11:51.920 The mindset is I'm not doing this for selfish gain.

00:11:57.580 I'm doing this so I can be in better service to other people, the people that I care about.

00:12:01.880 For a bigger purpose than yourself.

00:12:02.900 Right.

00:12:03.160 Yeah.

00:12:03.740 And I think if that's the mindset you approach self-care, we'll just call it self-care.

00:12:08.800 Then it's, it's not going to come across like that because you're doing it for that reason.

00:12:13.000 And so that means you're considerate of the way that your decisions might be impacting other

00:12:16.940 people.

00:12:17.240 So for example, if you're training for, and I know you've done this, Kip, you're

00:12:21.880 training for a big event, maybe it's a Ragnar like we ran a month or two ago or a Spartan

00:12:27.500 race or triathlon.

00:12:29.380 If you're doing it for selfish reasons only, you're probably not going to be able to take

00:12:33.640 into consideration the way other people see it.

00:12:35.580 You're like, well, what's the problem?

00:12:36.560 Why don't they understand?

00:12:37.600 Why don't they see this as important to me?

00:12:39.800 And that combative attitude is what is portrayed.

00:12:42.400 And then of course, it feels like you're at odds with the people that you care about.

00:12:46.140 But if you're doing it and you're thinking to yourself, because it's a deeply entrenched

00:12:49.500 mindset of I'm doing this, taking care of myself so I can show up more fully as a husband

00:12:54.400 or as a father, a leader in my community, an owner of this business, and that's the

00:12:59.540 mindset, then you're actually going to start taking people into consideration.

00:13:02.640 So if it's your wife, for example, then you might say, Hey, hon, I'm going to be doing this

00:13:09.440 triathlon in three months.

00:13:10.960 And my training schedule is dot, dot, dot, but I want to make sure that it works for us.

00:13:15.780 And I want to make sure it works with the kids.

00:13:17.400 This is important to me and I'm going to do it, but what would be the best way to approach

00:13:21.380 this training schedule?

00:13:22.400 So you and I still get time and I'm still engaged with the kids and let her have an

00:13:28.680 input in that.

00:13:29.600 She's going to be impacted by it.

00:13:31.280 Your kids are going to be impacted by it.

00:13:33.220 Same thing at work.

00:13:34.680 You know, if you're only taking time for yourself, people are going to see it as you being disengaged

00:13:39.700 and not caring about the business.

00:13:41.480 Your employees might even feel that.

00:13:43.500 But if you explain to them honestly and openly about why you might be absent, then they're

00:13:48.380 not left to fill in the blanks about what's going on.

00:13:51.060 And that's what they'll do.

00:13:51.980 They'll make assumptions.

00:13:52.840 Your employees will, your family will, your clients will.

00:13:55.940 If you're absent or disengaged for any reason, they're going to jump to assumptions and conclusions

00:14:00.620 about why that is.

00:14:01.880 And typically they're not going to be favorable.

00:14:04.120 But if on the other hand, you include them in that decision-making process, or at least let

00:14:08.440 them know what's going on, then there's no assumptions to be made.

00:14:10.860 And everybody's like, oh, okay, I got that.

00:14:12.500 That makes sense to me.

00:14:13.940 But then the other thing I would say is you need to continually look for feedback.

00:14:17.920 And I've talked a lot about this concept of work-life balance.

00:14:21.360 That's one we hear a lot.

00:14:22.520 Guys are like, what's the work-life balance?

00:14:24.380 And I think what most people are looking for, that's what they're looking for.

00:14:27.900 They're like, what's the ratio?

00:14:29.620 Is it 60-40?

00:14:30.640 Is it 72-28?

00:14:33.280 I had to do the math real quick because I was a little slower on that.

00:14:35.360 I should have used 70 and 30, not 72 and 28.

00:14:40.640 Yeah.

00:14:40.920 What are you doing, dude?

00:14:42.100 Yeah.

00:14:42.320 Like the next example, 23.8 versus...

00:14:47.820 I almost said 38, but I got it right. 1.00

00:14:50.420 I think I got it right.

00:14:51.200 You guys check me if I'm wrong.

00:14:54.040 But what they're looking for is they're looking for the perfect ratio and it doesn't exist.

00:14:57.740 You actually might hit the perfect ratio, but it's going to change in the next 60 seconds

00:15:01.400 because there's going to be something new going on in your life.

00:15:03.600 If one of your kids breaks his leg or has a girlfriend issue you need to focus on or

00:15:11.380 needs a little more attention or something at work, a fire comes out and you lose a big

00:15:15.420 client.

00:15:16.000 So you need to develop and focus more time on that.

00:15:20.060 Maybe even in the evening, it's like, oh man, we just lost a big client.

00:15:23.840 Guys, I know it's six o'clock, but I got to do this.

00:15:27.600 So these things are dynamic.

00:15:28.660 And so even if I gave you a perfect formula today or a ratio, it would change in 60 seconds.

00:15:34.660 And so the point I'm making is that you're always going to be looking for feedback because

00:15:38.040 you're going to find that people in your life are going to need different things from you

00:15:41.640 at different times.

00:15:42.620 And we have seasons.

00:15:44.360 So if it's training for a triathlon, that's a season.

00:15:47.820 And so you're going to devote more time to that than you would to family.

00:15:51.620 But then there's other times where maybe the family is having a hard time or maybe they're

00:15:56.680 going back to school.

00:15:57.900 And so that's a stressful situation.

00:15:59.280 And so you need to devote a little more time to that.

00:16:01.680 The point I'm making, it's dynamic.

00:16:03.700 And we need to constantly be looking and evaluating the feedback we're receiving from the people

00:16:08.980 who are impacted by our decisions so we can adjust our percentages accordingly.

00:16:12.780 You should never get to zero on self-care.

00:16:15.300 Sometimes it might be 10.

00:16:16.580 Sometimes it might be 90.

00:16:17.800 But that's also determined by what you need and what other people in your life need from

00:16:21.780 you.

00:16:22.920 Yeah.

00:16:23.240 You know, I like what you said here, as well as the previous questions, like the paradigm

00:16:28.700 shift of sovereignty is not about like a selfish desire, but sovereignty around your individual

00:16:36.840 self and those you serve.

00:16:39.500 Would you say that's always true?

00:16:42.020 I mean, I'm trying to think of an exception to that as you say that.

00:16:46.900 Yeah.

00:16:47.800 I don't think that we make these types of decisions in a vacuum.

00:16:50.840 So even if that were true, I don't think that you can improve yourself and not have it rub

00:16:54.860 off positively on people around you.

00:16:56.440 Yeah.

00:16:57.040 Yeah.

00:16:57.500 You're always, well, let's be frank.

00:16:59.260 I mean, a life of fulfillment is going to be found in a higher sense of purpose and meaning,

00:17:04.180 which is usually found in the service of others, whether it's family, your spouse, your

00:17:08.920 parents, or your siblings of some sort.

00:17:10.860 So if that, if that, if your sovereignty is to serve, then, then I think that's kind of

00:17:16.620 the ideal level of sovereignty versus just individual focus.

00:17:21.420 But, but nonetheless, right.

00:17:22.940 There's impact regardless.

00:17:23.980 Right.

00:17:24.520 That's going to happen.

00:17:25.660 Well, this is why I don't like some of these more extreme men's movements, like Meg Tao men 1.00

00:17:30.640 going their own way.

00:17:31.580 And you hear from incels and these types.

00:17:33.680 Um, even the Andrew Tate audience tends to go more towards this route of I'm doing this

00:17:40.020 for me.

00:17:40.600 I need to take care of mine.

00:17:42.180 And it's at the expense of other people, not in service to other people.

00:17:46.900 So you can certainly go that route.

00:17:48.940 I mean, people do.

00:17:50.320 I don't think it's healthy.

00:17:51.380 I don't think it's fulfilling.

00:17:52.880 Um, I think you're going to alienate a lot of people around you.

00:17:55.280 I've done that in my life.

00:17:56.280 When I tend to get self-centered, where I'm doing things at other people's expense, I can

00:18:01.660 sugarcoat it and tell myself and them that I'm doing it for me to serve them better.

00:18:06.280 But if the reality is I'm doing it at their expense, that's too extreme.

00:18:10.620 And you're going to end up alienating the people that you love.

00:18:13.520 So I choose to look at my own self-care and my own sovereignty as inextricably connected

00:18:21.540 with my ability to serve people I care about and have a desire to serve and lead.

00:18:26.100 Yeah.

00:18:26.460 I like that.

00:18:27.680 Matt Hadfield, since writing the book, Sovereignty,

00:18:30.800 how has your view or understanding of personal sovereignty changed or developed?

00:18:36.320 And what is your main takeaway in relationship to sovereignty over the past five years since

00:18:40.740 you wrote your first book?

00:18:42.660 Well, the biggest way that it's changed, I think, is that I've learned, and I always knew

00:18:47.540 this.

00:18:47.980 We know this intuitively, but sometimes we don't really, we have to experience it.

00:18:54.060 And what I'm experiencing, especially over the past 12 months, is that not everything is

00:18:59.080 within our control.

00:19:01.180 And you know that.

00:19:02.440 Everybody knows that.

00:19:04.140 But until you actually experience it and you're left with the hardship to dealing with things

00:19:08.420 outside of your control, you don't really understand it.

00:19:13.900 And I've had to wrestle with a lot of that.

00:19:16.920 I mean, some of my external circumstances are a direct result of the way that I showed up,

00:19:21.500 which was not as well as I could have.

00:19:23.640 And some of it, even though I'm working towards improving myself and fixing myself and getting

00:19:29.400 better and doing more self-care, but doing it in relationship to how I serve other people,

00:19:34.820 there's still decisions that other people can make.

00:19:37.820 And there's still factors that you just can't influence.

00:19:41.420 And it's really hard to deal with when that's the case.

00:19:44.420 But what I'm also finding is that if you do it right and you can look at yourself in the

00:19:50.400 mirror and say, you know, if I was dropped into this situation, this unfortunate situation

00:19:54.380 again, and I would play it the exact same way I did today, then that's all a man can 0.98

00:19:58.680 do.

00:19:59.440 Yeah.

00:20:00.340 You know, like things happen.

00:20:01.680 Some of it's your responsibility and fault.

00:20:03.400 Some of it's not.

00:20:04.080 But if you could look at yourself honestly and say, I would do it the exact same way,

00:20:09.200 then you have a clear conscience.

00:20:11.100 And it doesn't always make it easier because you're still wrestling with the fallout of

00:20:14.400 your decisions, but at least, you know, you're trying to do it right moving forward.

00:20:19.040 At least you have integrity around how you're dealing with it.

00:20:21.560 Yeah.

00:20:21.980 Yeah.

00:20:22.640 Yeah.

00:20:23.100 Ryan, how do you, how do you struggle with or find that balance of what, like, because

00:20:31.880 no, I'm not obviously doing a good job asking this question.

00:20:36.140 Um, based upon what you just said, I think sometimes guys may latch onto that, right?

00:20:41.480 Oh, it's outside my realm of control.

00:20:43.100 Nothing I can do.

00:20:44.520 Right.

00:20:45.160 But in the same breath, we have this podcast.

00:20:47.400 We talk all the time about like, no, your impact does matter.

00:20:50.960 Right.

00:20:51.340 And how you show up does affect your kids.

00:20:53.120 And you know what I mean?

00:20:54.440 And there's this line and it's a slippery slope sometimes I think, right?

00:20:58.740 When, when guys could hold onto this, uh, it's outside my realm of control.

00:21:02.520 Nothing I can do.

00:21:03.540 I'll just be me.

00:21:04.580 You know what I mean?

00:21:06.020 Versus being powerful and realizing that much more is in your realm of control than not.

00:21:13.640 But same breath, going back to what you just said, like, how do you deal with not trying

00:21:19.280 to control everything and realizing that, you know what, this is out of my control.

00:21:22.940 How do you balance that?

00:21:24.000 Right.

00:21:24.120 How do you, how do you identify that for yourself and know that you are acting in integrity

00:21:30.020 and not just using that as a, as an excuse?

00:21:33.380 Yeah.

00:21:33.840 So that, okay.

00:21:34.580 So I've wrestled that last part of that question and it's very insightful and I'll answer the

00:21:38.760 full thing, but I like what you said right there.

00:21:40.640 Um, here, here's what I would suggest is a great litmus test.

00:21:43.580 And when I use this, I can evaluate why I'm doing the things I do, because it's easy to

00:21:47.860 say I'm doing things out of the goodness of my heart.

00:21:50.700 But really you're probably most of the time, myself included are doing things for selfish

00:21:55.560 gain.

00:21:56.540 Yeah.

00:21:57.100 Right.

00:21:57.840 Or to manipulate of some sort, which is self-selfish gain.

00:22:01.100 Yeah.

00:22:02.660 So the, I think a question you could ponder on is if nobody saw me engaged in this behavior

00:22:09.620 or there was no reward I would receive from acting the way I am, would I still do it this

00:22:17.300 way?

00:22:17.520 If you would, then that you, you're, you're aligned with your moral belief because you

00:22:23.820 know, Hey, I'm just going to do this because it's the, it's the right thing to do, regardless

00:22:27.500 of whether or not I get praise and accolades from other people, regardless of whether or

00:22:32.840 not it benefits me in some relationship somehow, that's a person of integrity.

00:22:38.260 And I, and I'm look, I'm not painting myself as that person of integrity.

00:22:41.420 I'm, I'm saying that that's what I want to live towards.

00:22:44.620 I want to live and you know why this is so valuable is because that's ultimate sovereignty

00:22:49.260 because you are unaffected by the way people respond to that behavior because you're doing

00:22:55.600 it not for the expectation of anything in return, but simply because it's the right

00:22:59.260 thing to do.

00:23:00.560 Now, if I do something and I know it's the right thing to do, my behavior is not going

00:23:05.940 to be influenced negatively.

00:23:07.540 If you happen to respond negatively to what I do, my behavior is going to be the same.

00:23:12.160 It's not going to be, uh, changed positively or changed in some way because you're, you're

00:23:18.400 positive about it.

00:23:19.120 And then I begin to exploit the relationship because I'm not doing it for you.

00:23:22.740 I'm doing it because it's the right thing to do.

00:23:25.400 That's pretty difficult, especially when it comes to relationships that we have with people

00:23:29.120 we care about, you know, our kids, for example, you know, there might be things about the

00:23:33.320 way that you want to show up as an example and you know, it's, you want to show up as

00:23:36.620 an example to them so you can use it as fuel to make better choices.

00:23:40.360 But is that the only reason you should be doing it?

00:23:42.420 Because your kids are seeing that?

00:23:44.400 I don't think so.

00:23:45.240 I think if you can go even deeper than that, you go to the gym because it's the right

00:23:48.500 thing to do.

00:23:49.320 Oh, and also as a side benefit, my kids will see me in shape and I'll be able to be with

00:23:52.980 them longer and all these other things.

00:23:54.740 That's even more potent and powerful.

00:23:57.040 Yeah.

00:23:57.360 So ultimate sovereignty is doing things that are intrinsically the right thing to do and separating

00:24:02.980 yourself from the result, which is obviously easier said than done.

00:24:07.180 Well, and this is interesting because there's, there's a natural slippery slope.

00:24:10.680 There's like righteous manipulation, right?

00:24:13.080 Where, where, because it's aligned with quote unquote, the right thing, then we just latch

00:24:20.000 onto it and go, I'm doing the right thing, but the right thing for the wrong reason is

00:24:26.100 still not the right thing.

00:24:28.300 Well, and I'll, and I'll even challenge your, and I know what you're saying.

00:24:31.760 So like, I'm not just debating semantics here, but I'll challenge the concept.

00:24:35.800 Hey, I just made that up, man.

00:24:37.080 You can't argue with what I just made up.

00:24:39.360 No, let's just blow this out of the water before it gets to the flow.

00:24:42.420 There's no such thing as righteous manipulation.

00:24:45.960 Yeah.

00:24:46.620 It's manipulation by its definition is exploiting behaviors or people or resources for your own

00:24:55.540 gain.

00:24:55.940 I mean, I understand the spirit of what you're saying because it's totally shrouded in righteousness.

00:25:01.080 Yeah.

00:25:01.400 Right.

00:25:02.040 Right.

00:25:02.600 I just want to bring that out there because I think there is something as righteous influence

00:25:07.080 or righteous leadership or even righteous persuasion.

00:25:12.400 But I, but I think this, uh, the concept of righteous manipulation, I understand what you're

00:25:18.120 saying.

00:25:18.380 I think it's good.

00:25:19.040 We bring it up, but I also think it's really important that we understand like, just because

00:25:24.360 how does the saying go?

00:25:26.500 The ends justify the means.

00:25:28.360 No, they don't.

00:25:29.800 No, they don't.

00:25:32.040 We say that all the time, but they don't, they don't justify the means.

00:25:35.880 And we know it's right.

00:25:37.040 And we know how to show up.

00:25:38.120 And if you do that enough, you're inevitably going to win and you may not win in, in the

00:25:42.540 acute moment, like doing the right thing.

00:25:45.340 There actually might be negative consequences in the moment for doing the right thing, but

00:25:50.480 over the long haul, it's going to serve you and other people.

00:25:53.660 Well, yeah.

00:25:55.200 And isn't it quite ironic?

00:25:57.160 Oh, no, no, no.

00:25:58.140 Well, as working through it anyway.

00:26:00.620 Well, that's why these conversations are powerful.

00:26:03.020 Well, and it isn't an ironic, everything that we just said, isn't that what we all justify

00:26:07.360 anyway?

00:26:07.700 Right.

00:26:08.000 We always justify our actions as quote unquote, being righteous so that way we can live with

00:26:12.500 them.

00:26:12.820 So, you know, we typically always try to shroud everything in righteousness, you know, that

00:26:18.700 way it's justified.

00:26:20.220 All right.

00:26:20.800 Adam Lewis.

00:26:22.060 Can I say one other thing about the concept of manipulation?

00:26:25.480 And I'm really good at this actually.

00:26:27.620 Like, and, and I have been accused of this.

00:26:30.540 Skillset.

00:26:31.080 Yeah.

00:26:31.400 You got a skill set.

00:26:32.120 I've been accused of this and it's an accurate reflection is I'm really good with my 1.00

00:26:37.800 words.

00:26:38.300 I can read people pretty well and I'm, I'm really good at that.

00:26:43.420 So I have to be very cautious of not doing it even subconsciously.

00:26:47.840 But the reason manipulation is a problem is because you're not letting other people have

00:26:53.000 their sovereignty.

00:26:54.380 And that's the problem.

00:26:55.860 You can't say that you value individual liberty.

00:26:58.660 If you're not willing to give other people their liberty, because you don't, you don't actually

00:27:03.520 value it.

00:27:04.220 You value it for yourself, but not for other people.

00:27:06.360 So it's not really about the liberty.

00:27:07.940 It's about your own selfish desires.

00:27:10.200 So the reason manipulation is a problem is because a couple of things, you're either

00:27:15.640 not giving people all of the information.

00:27:17.960 So they're not making an informed decision or you're giving them false and faulty information

00:27:22.680 and they're making decisions based on deceit.

00:27:25.680 And that means you're not treating them fairly.

00:27:29.380 So now on the other hand, if you give people all of the information and you present it in

00:27:34.720 a way that you think is benefit, there's nothing wrong with that, but you give people all of

00:27:37.840 the information and then allow them to make informed decisions.

00:27:40.920 Now you're somebody who actually ascribes to the concept of individual liberty, personal

00:27:46.100 sovereignty, because you're trusting that people can make decisions for themselves.

00:27:51.200 And if they can't, then you're still going to help them, right?

00:27:53.500 Cause we all mess up, like we all make great decisions and we all make really horrible

00:27:57.400 decisions.

00:27:58.380 And when our people make bad decisions, we don't abandon them.

00:28:03.000 We stand by them and we love them and we serve them and we help them work through those

00:28:08.920 bad decisions and the consequences of those bad decisions.

00:28:11.380 Yeah.

00:28:12.620 And, and the energy of manipulation to keep that train going is exhausting.

00:28:19.640 Yeah.

00:28:20.560 It is so much better to let them execute, let them be their quote unquote own engine and find

00:28:28.160 alignment and support them than just constantly manipulating them to do what you want.

00:28:34.040 Yeah.

00:28:34.820 Yeah.

00:28:35.060 Really good point.

00:28:35.800 Adam Lewis, what are some strategies to help lead our wives through a hard miscarriage while

00:28:42.420 having sovereignty to address us?

00:28:45.620 While having this, I don't understand that last part, leading our wife through a miscarriage

00:28:50.640 while having the sovereignty.

00:28:52.240 Oh, to address us, meaning taking care of our own, like our own issues with, with the

00:28:56.340 miscarriage.

00:28:56.760 Yeah.

00:28:57.540 Yeah.

00:28:57.920 Got it.

00:28:58.620 Yeah.

00:28:58.880 I, I'm not always great at this because I don't have, like, I talked about one thing

00:29:04.100 I'm good at, one thing I'm not good at.

00:29:06.760 There's only one thing I'm not good at.

00:29:09.280 That's, that's a joke, by the way.

00:29:10.880 You didn't let it be documented.

00:29:13.740 I took a while.

00:29:16.380 It was the delay.

00:29:17.400 It was the delay in a connection.

00:29:18.660 No, no, no.

00:29:19.020 I was like, yeah, that seems right.

00:29:20.660 That seems about right.

00:29:21.500 You must be being serious.

00:29:24.940 Um, I'm not a real empathetic person.

00:29:28.880 So it's hard for me and man, that's, that's a, I've never experienced that.

00:29:34.020 So how, how could I know what that's like?

00:29:37.020 I don't fortunately.

00:29:38.800 Um, I, I would say, let me address the second half of that question by taking care of yourself.

00:29:45.640 It goes back to what I said earlier to the, I think it was the first question, making sure

00:29:50.720 that you're taking care of yourself physically by working out, training, moving your body,

00:29:54.460 still do that.

00:29:55.620 Maybe even more so now.

00:29:56.900 Uh, journal these things.

00:29:59.460 Cause there's things that you don't in the moment need to be dumping on your wife all

00:30:02.700 the time.

00:30:03.700 So journal and document, and then have your band of brothers.

00:30:07.100 So you can process and work through these things.

00:30:09.060 And by the way, don't not talk about this with your friends.

00:30:12.000 Like talk about it.

00:30:13.100 Cause you know what?

00:30:13.940 One or more of them have probably gone through a similar experience or are currently going

00:30:18.660 through an experience and they can work you through what you're currently feeling

00:30:21.380 and how you're feeling about it.

00:30:22.760 So that, that's what I would say to the second half of the question, man, with the first,

00:30:27.100 I, again, I don't know.

00:30:28.220 I, I feel like anything I would say would be said in ignorance because have you dealt with

00:30:32.400 this Kip personally?

00:30:34.380 I have.

00:30:34.860 Um, but, but, but I think, I think the principle is transcendent, right?

00:30:40.420 So sure.

00:30:41.560 Yeah.

00:30:42.000 Think about like your, your dad dying, right?

00:30:45.600 Or a loved one dying.

00:30:48.040 Um, what's the strategy for you dealing with grief while in the same token being there for

00:30:55.600 those that need you and that are within your realm of care.

00:31:00.620 And, and me personally, I think the answer is, is don't be ready, not like be ready, like

00:31:08.280 be in a position.

00:31:09.440 So when your dad does die or loved one dies, or your wife has a miscarriage that you're

00:31:15.680 complete in a way that you can deal with hardship.

00:31:19.120 And then that way you can deal with it appropriately and then be in a position to support others.

00:31:24.300 Isn't it quite ironic, right?

00:31:25.840 Whether it's opportunities or dealing with hardships, so much of it has to do with being

00:31:30.980 prepared for when they present themselves.

00:31:33.440 Right.

00:31:34.120 And, and I think we need to be, Jordan Peterson made that quote, right?

00:31:37.760 You want to be the kind of man that at a family's, you know, funeral, you're the one

00:31:42.860 supporting and loving and, and helping others because you don't need it.

00:31:49.120 Cause you've gotten complete with yourself in your mind of how you deal with things.

00:31:53.740 And you're in such a great place that you can deal with those things in a really good

00:31:57.260 way.

00:31:58.380 Yeah.

00:31:58.760 I think that's, I think that's powerful, but I also want to address his concern of, I

00:32:03.580 mean, I'm assuming that his wife is him and his wife are dealing with this now.

00:32:07.480 Yeah.

00:32:08.440 You know, so I think, I think you're right.

00:32:10.360 I think you're spot on.

00:32:11.700 Great idea, Kip, but yeah.

00:32:13.720 Boats out of the Harbor.

00:32:14.660 Yeah.

00:32:15.140 Yeah.

00:32:15.840 I mean, look, I hate to say it this way.

00:32:18.140 I think it's right.

00:32:18.960 Is just be receptive to service.

00:32:22.180 So that might mean, I don't know if you have additional kids, but you know, maybe you take

00:32:26.280 a bigger load of, of helping the kids than maybe you normally would.

00:32:30.620 Maybe instead of working a few late hours or taking lunch breaks, maybe now's the time

00:32:37.300 to go in an hour later and not take a lunch or just bring a sack lunch with you or come

00:32:42.140 home an hour earlier.

00:32:43.200 Man, what a gesture.

00:32:44.660 She knows you're busy at work.

00:32:45.880 She knows what you've got going on.

00:32:46.920 She knows it's a busy season potentially.

00:32:48.300 And yet here you are coming home an hour earlier, sacrificing your own lunch or sacrificing time

00:32:54.100 with your friends to be with her.

00:32:56.460 You know, maybe it's doing a little bit more around the house.

00:32:59.160 Uh, I don't know what, what she likes or how she feels, but maybe it's taken her on a, on

00:33:04.980 a, you know, a family trip or a little weekend getaway.

00:33:07.600 And I know it's probably hard like to consider a vacation in the midst of what's going on,

00:33:11.920 but I'm not talking about some big elaborate trip.

00:33:14.340 I'm talking about, you know, taking her to dinner and, and maybe getting a hotel somewhere close

00:33:18.900 and setting up a babysitter and just going and enjoying in time and being with each other.

00:33:23.200 Um, you know, sitting down and talking with her coming home with, you know, her favorite

00:33:27.560 ice cream.

00:33:28.160 I don't know.

00:33:28.840 I don't writing her a note on the mirror about how much you love her.

00:33:32.260 I think just doing something maybe out of the ordinary and different would let her know.

00:33:37.120 And here's the thing.

00:33:39.100 I think sometimes we think we need to sit down and talk about all these things and we should.

00:33:43.520 And there probably will come a time where you will do that if you have not already, but also

00:33:48.140 some things like don't always need to be said.

00:33:51.480 And maybe you can say it differently by leaving a note or by coming home early or by buying her,

00:33:56.820 you know, flowers and letting her know you're thinking about her.

00:34:00.540 Um, or, or this little mini staycation I was talking about, like, there's some things here

00:34:04.260 that you can do if you really try to tune into what she's all about.

00:34:07.880 Yeah.

00:34:08.600 Well, and I interrupted you, Ryan, but you were saying it goes back to that other question,

00:34:12.620 you know, working out, right.

00:34:14.740 That's going to help.

00:34:15.720 It really will.

00:34:16.560 It seems maybe that's not the case, but it totally will.

00:34:19.220 The second thing that you mentioned is journaling your thoughts and feelings to get those out

00:34:24.540 and then having your band of brothers and those around you that you can talk with and strategize

00:34:31.080 with and, you know, express your concerns and get ideas from them and et cetera.

00:34:35.380 So, uh, I didn't, I didn't want to take away.

00:34:38.280 I interrupted you in that statement.

00:34:40.900 So, yeah.

00:34:42.480 Cool.

00:34:43.020 What's next?

00:34:43.940 Good luck.

00:34:44.700 And I, I imagine that's a very difficult situation and I'm sorry to hear that you're

00:34:48.420 going through that.

00:34:48.960 Calvin, uh, how has your journey been since the separation from your wife and sharing

00:34:56.760 time with your children and how do you navigate the emotional waves of the separation while

00:35:01.660 you lead the iron council?

00:35:02.840 Yeah.

00:35:04.340 I mean, that's a good question.

00:35:05.400 Cause that's been a hard one, you know, and, and there's ebbs and flows with all of

00:35:09.060 my children and highs and lows and things that are going well and things that aren't

00:35:12.820 going well.

00:35:13.400 And, you know, it's a challenge that I didn't figure I'd find myself and ever, and yet here

00:35:17.280 I am.

00:35:17.960 So, you know, I think it goes back to what I was saying.

00:35:22.040 I, we keep going back to that default question.

00:35:23.800 I keep going back to that answer because it's true.

00:35:26.260 Keep working out, keep journaling that journaling, by the way, is something I've just recently

00:35:30.040 implemented, hasn't been real long, maybe three, four months.

00:35:34.100 Um, you know, having guys in your corner who you're actually having real conversations

00:35:38.080 with.

00:35:38.640 I went to lunch with a friend the other day and we had a good conversation because we

00:35:42.660 talked about things that we were struggling with.

00:35:44.600 And normally maybe a year ago or so, I would have not talked about any of that.

00:35:48.080 And I would have just talked about all the things that were going right, but you need

00:35:51.940 to talk about the things that aren't always going right.

00:35:53.900 That's, that's been really helpful for me, but yeah, focusing on them, tricking, trying

00:35:58.220 to communicate with them to varying degrees based on what they're comfortable with.

00:36:02.600 You know, not, not all of my children are totally comfortable with talking about everything

00:36:06.480 like, like I am.

00:36:08.680 So trying to be aware of that, but also push a little bit so that we can have these conversations.

00:36:13.940 Um, so yeah, a lot of things have been good and my own personal development journey has

00:36:19.160 been good.

00:36:19.600 I'm, I'm happier than I've ever been, not ever, but I'm happier than I've been in a long

00:36:23.620 time, I think.

00:36:25.600 Um, and, and also I've, I've shared this a lot, you know, when people are dealing with

00:36:31.320 hardship, they ask these questions of like, how do you deal with it?

00:36:34.300 How do you overcome it?

00:36:35.460 Well, you make yourself the project.

00:36:37.040 That's what you do.

00:36:38.040 And don't we, as men love projects, whether it's building something at the house, building

00:36:42.700 a bookshelf, putting together an Ikea bookshelf at the house, which is like one of the most

00:36:46.900 challenging things, but you know, you feel good when you get the dang thing done.

00:36:49.920 And, um, we like projects and so be the project, you know, it's a perfect time.

00:36:56.660 We're just starting the third quarter of this year, 2023, and there's no greater time than

00:37:01.740 to decide, you know what?

00:37:03.920 Yeah.

00:37:04.360 It's time for me to get my fitness locked in.

00:37:07.080 Uh, it's time for me to learn how to communicate more effectively.

00:37:09.960 It's time for me to release some of the trauma or even limiting beliefs, like a limiting

00:37:17.020 belief I had one, as it relates to relationships is, oh, you're not supposed to share that stuff

00:37:21.240 with women and you're not supposed to talk about how you feel or, you know, burden her

00:37:25.940 with any of the, the, the things that you might be dealing with mentally or emotionally.

00:37:30.620 And I, I bought into that and I don't think that's true.

00:37:35.020 I think, I think our, our, our women want partners and I, and I think they want to hear 0.96

00:37:40.240 some, I don't think they want to hear you whine and complain and bitch and moan all 1.00

00:37:42.680 the time without solutions or see you working towards solutions. 0.99

00:37:45.900 Like if you said, oh, I'm so fat.

00:37:47.500 I hate that I'm fat and I don't, I shouldn't be this way.

00:37:50.460 And then you never do anything about it.

00:37:52.160 I think that's going to diminish some credibility and trust in her eyes.

00:37:55.740 But if you're like, oh, hon, I'm just having a hard time.

00:37:58.100 Cause I look at myself in the mirror and I don't like who I see and who I become.

00:38:01.820 I used to be so fit and strong and athletic. 0.97

00:38:03.500 And now I just feel like a fat slob.

00:38:05.100 So I'm on the path.

00:38:06.240 And then you, you actually like you say it, but then you actually start doing that work.

00:38:10.040 And she's like, oh, not only does she see that you're a man of your word, she actually

00:38:14.100 becomes more physically attracted to you.

00:38:16.240 Obviously that's a good outcome as well.

00:38:18.700 So yeah, I'm trying to, I'm trying to analyze my limiting beliefs and, and just navigate life

00:38:25.960 in a different way than I have.

00:38:26.960 Like, where was I good and where was I weak?

00:38:28.900 And let's shore up the deficiencies and weaknesses.

00:38:31.380 Yeah.

00:38:32.300 He used to the term emotional waves.

00:38:36.040 If you don't mind me asking, you know, midday today, you, you get hit with the emotional

00:38:43.060 wave of, um, your family, you know, and usually they're dramatic, right?

00:38:48.840 The story I used to say is like, my family's falling apart.

00:38:52.360 Right.

00:38:53.660 So you get hit with the wave at 2 PM today.

00:38:57.980 How do you deal with it in that moment?

00:38:59.720 How do you navigate that moment of just like, just pissed or angry, sad, all of that emotion

00:39:07.040 of, of dealing with reality.

00:39:11.200 Sometimes I, I distract myself with work or something else.

00:39:16.740 And that's effective.

00:39:17.720 Yeah.

00:39:18.500 It is just a bandaid, but it is, but it is effective.

00:39:21.400 It's not addressing anything personally, but it's how you get past the wave.

00:39:25.140 Yeah.

00:39:25.400 Because that's what's appropriate sometimes.

00:39:28.800 Like if you have work to do, you've got to do the work, you know, you've talked about

00:39:32.380 it.

00:39:32.540 You used to run a lot, right?

00:39:33.800 You said that as like, man, I started running a lot.

00:39:36.240 Right.

00:39:36.620 That's how you dealt with that.

00:39:39.160 Um, but one thing that's helped me is, is, well, two things.

00:39:44.160 Number one, lengthen out the time, the lens in which you're looking at life.

00:39:48.200 Cause in, in these moments, when you look at it, like your relationship with your kids

00:39:53.480 are, they're strained, like really strained.

00:39:56.780 And it's hard, like, it's really hard to deal with.

00:39:59.200 Cause you don't like, you don't want that.

00:40:01.740 You don't want them.

00:40:03.420 Like, I've had thoughts of like, are my kids going to hate me?

00:40:06.200 Like, are they never going to want to have a relationship with me again?

00:40:09.800 You know, what are they like, or they're going to hold this over us and it's going to

00:40:13.800 ruin the relationship.

00:40:14.660 I'm sure you felt that way too.

00:40:17.760 And so I look at it, that that's a micro moment of, uh, and it's probably not accurate either.

00:40:23.940 Cause you're not seeing the entire picture.

00:40:25.540 You're just seeing in the moment, maybe one of your kids says something or you have an 0.96

00:40:29.540 experience, you're like, oh, this sucks. 0.96

00:40:30.740 And that's all you can see in this.

00:40:31.940 I'm making this like, you know, this, this window, but if you spread out that time horizon

00:40:36.120 and you look at everything else, it's like, okay, well, we can rebuild this.

00:40:40.080 You know, we can change this and we can have these conversations and we can talk about this

00:40:43.500 and you lengthen it out.

00:40:44.840 And that's a little blip.

00:40:45.700 I'm not saying it's insignificant.

00:40:46.980 I'm just saying it's a blip in the grand scheme of things.

00:40:50.040 Um, so that that's been one way to, to work through it.

00:40:54.540 Another way is to look at the relationship.

00:40:59.320 That's where most of my stress comes from.

00:41:01.520 And the emotion is like the strain on our, my relationship with my children.

00:41:05.680 And in those moments, I think about how can I connect?

00:41:11.860 And then I give myself something to do.

00:41:13.860 And it might be a simple text, like, Hey guys, thinking about you today.

00:41:17.440 Hope all's going well.

00:41:18.400 Or what are you, or asking a question or, Hey, can I come by and, you know, grab you and

00:41:23.220 go get a drink or something?

00:41:24.700 You know?

00:41:24.960 So there's like, there's these little things that touch points that you can do when you

00:41:29.520 feel like that.

00:41:30.180 Um, I think we do have to be careful of not using our kids to satisfy our own emotional

00:41:36.260 needs.

00:41:37.320 Do you, I think we need to be careful.

00:41:38.780 Cause I, look, I, I would, I have been guilty of that.

00:41:41.520 And most parents will try to.

00:41:43.560 Yeah.

00:41:43.980 Yeah.

00:41:44.280 It becomes a crutch and it's not good for kids either.

00:41:46.960 Um, no, too much pressure, but also, but also they need you.

00:41:50.480 And so there might be moments where you can engage in them in a different or new or unique

00:41:54.540 way or in a way they're interested in, in order to, to connect.

00:41:58.860 So I don't know.

00:42:00.000 I don't have a good answer on that.

00:42:00.940 I'm, I'm navigating these waters myself.

00:42:02.460 So, no, I think that was a good answer.

00:42:04.700 Actually.

00:42:05.620 I mean, I think it's spot on actually.

00:42:07.780 Um, Aaron can answer.

00:42:09.880 Hey, Ryan, I work in a construction industry at a pace of nine one one all the time.

00:42:14.480 We work on an average 12 hours a day or a little more in a roughly physical, a physically,

00:42:20.020 physical environment.

00:42:21.280 I'm experiencing burnout after only a few months in the, in the company.

00:42:25.380 Or a question is this, how have you dealt with burnout and continue to

00:42:29.920 push through to realize your vision and complete objectives?

00:42:33.140 So if I told you, Hey, Kip, like, let's say you, you hired me to, to, um, you wanted

00:42:43.320 me to train you.

00:42:44.660 And I said, Kip, I need you to start running.

00:42:47.520 Well, like, what would you say?

00:42:48.500 If that's what I said, Hey, Kip, you want me to train you?

00:42:50.000 I need you to start running right now.

00:42:50.980 Go ahead and start running.

00:42:51.600 What would you say right now?

00:42:53.920 Right now strategy.

00:42:55.260 What's the plan?

00:42:57.220 Yeah.

00:42:58.200 You would, you might say, okay, for like how long, like what distance, like you would ask

00:43:03.540 more questions about it.

00:43:05.160 Why would you ask more questions?

00:43:06.720 Because it's infinitely harder to do something forever or for an unspecified amount of time.

00:43:12.900 Yeah, totally.

00:43:14.060 And I think that might be what you're running up against right now.

00:43:17.400 And my question to you is how long do you need to do this for?

00:43:21.940 Like, let's forget about the breakneck speed that you're going at, like for how long?

00:43:26.780 Cause I can do that for a sustained period of time.

00:43:29.500 You, you can, you're doing it for months.

00:43:31.020 Like you can do it for a sustained period of time.

00:43:33.780 What's the strategy here?

00:43:35.740 Is it just busy season?

00:43:37.620 Cause if it's a busy season, got it.

00:43:39.620 I'm going to be busy for three months.

00:43:40.860 I think I can handle that.

00:43:41.800 And then you see the light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak.

00:43:44.180 But I think there's some things that you need to ask, maybe some other people in the

00:43:50.500 organization of like, Hey man, I feel like we're just like running and gutting all the

00:43:54.980 time.

00:43:55.240 Is this our normal pace?

00:43:56.140 Like, don't say it as, as like you're, you're skeptical or, you know, you're like griping

00:44:02.280 or moaning.

00:44:03.060 Like, you don't want to do that.

00:44:04.380 Cause that's going to work its way up the chain of command.

00:44:06.140 You might get yourself in trouble, but I think it would be appropriate to say, Hey, we're,

00:44:09.660 we're working harder than I anticipate.

00:44:11.340 I didn't expect it to be like, is it always this pace?

00:44:14.180 I would want to know that.

00:44:16.720 Like you might want to clarify, like, uh, you know, so is this, uh, is this normal guys

00:44:21.420 or, uh, yeah, because if it is, I don't know how long that's sustainable for.

00:44:27.560 I don't even know if you want to do that.

00:44:29.400 Like, I wouldn't want to do that.

00:44:30.680 I can do it for a few months.

00:44:31.700 I can do it for a year.

00:44:32.400 When I started ordering, man, I did, I did both my financial planning practice and this

00:44:36.620 for at least a year.

00:44:38.700 I think it's important to know what the plan is, what the strategy is.

00:44:41.860 So you could ask a coworker, you might even ask an employer.

00:44:45.020 Again, you're not going to do it from a position of griping.

00:44:47.540 You're just for some clarification.

00:44:49.980 Hey, how long do these projects take?

00:44:51.620 What's the pace like?

00:44:53.360 So, you know, if you know what they are, then I think you're going to have the greater

00:44:57.760 ability to be able to drive on the greater ability to keep, keep going on because you

00:45:04.140 know that there's some end or some destination in mind.

00:45:07.220 Now, that being said, how do you manage that?

00:45:09.540 I think you manage it by taking care of yourself.

00:45:12.120 Again, we're talking about personal sovereignty.

00:45:14.280 So what are you doing for yourself?

00:45:16.720 Here's one that's counterintuitive that we keep telling you, you need to exercise.

00:45:20.560 Now that's counterintuitive.

00:45:22.440 You're like, oh, Ryan, I'm already working 12 hour days, I'm doing this.

00:45:27.400 I'm not telling you, you need to train for a bodybuilding competition, but you should wake

00:45:31.600 up an hour earlier or whatever you need.

00:45:33.800 And maybe you just get some stretching in.

00:45:36.960 Maybe, maybe instead of just hurrying and getting out of the house and just like eating,

00:45:42.060 you know, stopping by the convenience store and getting a bunch of junk on the way out,

00:45:44.740 you actually wake up a little earlier and you feel your body correctly by making yourself

00:45:49.220 some breakfast.

00:45:50.560 Maybe at night, you don't stay up so late or you don't have the drinks that you're used

00:45:55.060 to having and you go to bed a little bit earlier.

00:45:58.640 Maybe your lunch break is not always spent with the guys doing whatever it is they do,

00:46:04.940 but maybe your lunch break is, hey, I'm going to go into the car and I'm going to blast the

00:46:09.240 AC.

00:46:10.060 I'm going to eat a good, healthy lunch that me or my wife packed for me.

00:46:13.400 And I'm going to listen to my favorite book or just listen to some music.

00:46:18.460 And just rejuvenate, recharge.

00:46:21.300 Like, what can you do for yourself in those moments that are going to, that's going to

00:46:25.140 re-energize you and get you back into the game when you need to be back into the game?

00:46:32.580 Totally.

00:46:33.220 And we're, and, and I think some guys might be listening to this and like, well,

00:46:37.360 geez, Ryan, I feel burnt out, but I'm not working 12 hour days and I'm not doing physical

00:46:42.000 construction job.

00:46:43.560 I'm sitting at a desk and I feel burnt out and to that, and maybe I'll pose that question

00:46:49.420 back to you.

00:46:50.040 But one thought there is most employees that feel burnt out and have like anxiety or stress,

00:46:55.960 it's not typical workload.

00:46:58.000 A lot of cases is they don't, back to your original point, they don't know what the point

00:47:05.020 of what they're doing is.

00:47:06.740 They don't see the long-term strategy.

00:47:09.340 They're not bought into like the long game or they think the work that they're doing is 1.00

00:47:13.860 being wasted because it's just, it's mundane, stupid things that they shouldn't have to be 0.99

00:47:18.180 doing because of some company process or something else. 0.98

00:47:21.000 And so be, I, I, I just want to point that out that this could be a burnout that's not

00:47:27.880 physical either.

00:47:29.020 And some of it is not knowing the long-term strategy and game.

00:47:32.920 Yeah, that's, that's true.

00:47:34.680 So the better, the clearer you can get about that and the sooner, I think the better you're

00:47:37.900 going to be.

00:47:38.200 And by the way, like if anybody's thinking that, like, well, I'm not doing what he's

00:47:42.000 doing and I feel burnt out and I feel bad that I'm burnt out where I'm not working as

00:47:45.480 hard as we don't need to get in the comparison game either.

00:47:48.360 So be careful if you feel that way.

00:47:51.100 Yeah.

00:47:51.680 Yeah.

00:47:52.100 If you feel like if that's what's going on, you address it.

00:47:55.860 It doesn't matter if you think I, I made some posts, these were years ago.

00:47:59.660 And I was saying, you know, how challenging it could be to as, as a business owner.

00:48:03.220 And what I'm dealing with as a business owner, I know is not as significant or challenging,

00:48:08.000 physically intensive or mentally hard as, as other people, but that doesn't negate my experience.

00:48:15.760 And so I had a, one person in particular was like, well, you know, Ryan, you're saying

00:48:19.560 this is hard, but you should see what I do.

00:48:21.860 It's like, this is not a contest, man.

00:48:24.340 I know like, like for example, law enforcement official officer or, or, or, or a member of

00:48:30.580 our military, just because I have a heart, I'm not saying they don't, I'm not saying that

00:48:34.420 my heart is the same as your heart.

00:48:36.180 I'm not even saying that yours isn't hard.

00:48:37.800 I'm just saying this is a challenge I'm going through right now.

00:48:39.880 And it's separate from what somebody else may be experiencing.

00:48:42.980 So we don't need to compare ourselves to those other hardships.

00:48:46.980 It's bumping up against time as it is, Kip.

00:48:49.460 And I know you have a hard stop and the family is now motivated and excited to get going for

00:48:54.080 the day.

00:48:54.560 So let's wrap this up, brother.

00:48:56.440 All right.

00:48:57.080 Sounds good.

00:48:57.800 Sorry, man.

00:48:58.560 We mentioned this earlier, the importance of a band of brothers, right?

00:49:02.280 And so to join that band of brothers or to learn more about it, go to orderofman.com

00:49:07.440 slash iron council.

00:49:08.880 And as always connect with Mr. Mickler on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter at Ryan

00:49:15.560 Mickler.

00:49:15.980 How's that, man?

00:49:17.180 All right.

00:49:17.580 It was all right.

00:49:18.260 I don't think anybody's going to, I don't know what you even said.

00:49:21.560 I'm just laughing at you.

00:49:22.740 And he's got, if you don't know, he's got kids coming around and this little guy and

00:49:26.940 then like a daughter coming to pick up the, it's hilarious.

00:49:30.860 Yes.

00:49:31.480 First recording in the, in the new apartment.

00:49:34.840 So yeah, we'll work on a system.

00:49:37.540 I used to, I used to think that, you know, all of this needed to be perfectly polished

00:49:43.180 and, you know, sure.

00:49:45.040 We want to, we want to do service to the ones that we're doing.

00:49:48.200 Yeah.

00:49:48.720 But also just the fact that you're here.

00:49:51.580 I appreciate you being here, Kip.

00:49:52.900 I know you're on your trip with your family, but it means a lot to me that you're here because

00:49:56.880 I know that this work is important to you.

00:49:58.720 And guys, I hope you know that this work is important to Kip too.

00:50:01.620 It's important to me, obviously, but it's important to Kip because he wouldn't be on

00:50:04.380 this call.

00:50:05.160 There's a thousand things that you could be doing with your family right now.

00:50:08.780 And I think this also goes to the work-life balance that we were talking about earlier.

00:50:12.420 Like there's some boundaries and there's some things in place.

00:50:14.560 It's like, Hey, I'm going to do this thing.

00:50:16.020 It's going to take me an hour.

00:50:17.200 And then I'm with you guys.

00:50:18.380 And those are the boundaries that you communicate.

00:50:20.280 And, and, uh, it's okay.

00:50:22.520 You know, we don't expect people to be all in on everything all the time, as long as

00:50:27.280 we're communicating it effectively.

00:50:28.280 So I appreciate you, man.

00:50:31.280 All right, brother.

00:50:32.060 Enjoy your trip guys.

00:50:33.200 Thank you.

00:50:33.640 We'll be back on Friday until then go out there, take action, regain or retain that

00:50:37.860 sovereignty, become a man.

00:50:38.980 You are meant to be.

00:50:40.100 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast.

00:50:42.860 You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

00:50:46.600 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

00:50:52.520 We'll be right back.

Order of Man - July 05, 2023

Overcoming the Emotion of Separation & Divorce, Finding Joy in Life, and Establishing Personal Sovereignty ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Order of Man - July 05, 2023

Overcoming the Emotion of Separation &#x26; Divorce, Finding Joy in Life, and Establishing Personal Sovereignty ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Overcoming the Emotion of Separation & Divorce, Finding Joy in Life, and Establishing Personal Sovereignty ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING