Order of Man - Pay Your Dues

00:00:00.000 Every single one of us has to start somewhere, yet when we look at the guys at the top,

00:00:03.980 it's really easy for us to jump to the conclusion that they've always been there.

00:00:08.460 What we fail to see is the years of toil and effort and struggle that those men at the top

00:00:13.860 endured along the way. Today, I'm joined by Sal Frisilla, who does a little bit of everything

00:00:18.860 at first form from running the organization to sweeping the floors. Today, he's here to

00:00:23.960 talk with us about where he started, how he had to restart along the way, playing the long game,

00:00:29.340 how to create a culture of winning, and why everyone needs to pay their dues.

00:00:34.000 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your

00:00:38.920 own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily

00:00:44.920 deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is

00:00:52.220 who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:00:59.340 Gentlemen, what is going on today? My name is Ryan Mickler, and I am the host and the founder

00:01:02.940 of this podcast, The Order of Man and the movement, The Order of Man. And guys, it truly is a movement.

00:01:09.040 I want to thank you for being part of this. I want to thank you also for sharing what you're sharing

00:01:13.060 and leaving the iTunes ratings and reviews. I actually noticed over the past couple of days,

00:01:18.680 maybe three, four, five days, we've really, really increased in the ratings on iTunes. And a large part of

00:01:24.780 that is because I asked the guys in our Facebook group to leave us a rating and review. And it was

00:01:30.780 amazing to see how much we climbed just through those ratings and reviews. So I would ask very

00:01:34.700 quickly, if you haven't left us a rating review and you've been listening for any amount of time,

00:01:39.000 I'd ask that you just take a couple of minutes, head over to iTunes, leave us a rating or an review.

00:01:43.820 And as I said before, it goes a really long way in helping bump us up the charts. And then of course,

00:01:48.700 improve and increase the visibility for what we're doing here. And if you are new,

00:01:52.800 what we are doing here, guys, is we are working to reclaim and restore masculinity to its proper

00:01:59.240 place. And we do that through this podcast and the hundreds and hundreds of conversations that

00:02:03.820 I've had. We do that through our Facebook group and the, I think 50 cash, 54,000 men over there.

00:02:10.140 I'm very active on Twitter, very active on Instagram, both at Ryan Mickler. My last name is

00:02:15.740 spelled M I C H L E R. So you can connect with us. You can find us wherever you're, you're doing the

00:02:21.280 social media thing. And then of course we've got our website as well. So like I said, glad you're

00:02:25.480 here. Glad you're tuning in. We need more men in this fight now than more than ever. And you know,

00:02:28.940 I get a lot of messages from guys on a daily basis with things that they want to share from articles

00:02:33.680 to things they've seen and posts they've made with the, just the struggle that it seems to be to

00:02:41.840 even talk about what it means to be a man and masculinity. And that's what we're doing here.

00:02:46.160 So excited again, that you're on this course with us. I want to share real quickly, something that

00:02:50.800 we've got going on. This is a little bit of a deviation than I normally do, but we've got a

00:02:55.760 podcasting course coming out in the next week. In fact, I think it starts the end of this week.

00:03:01.760 I'll have to check the dates, but it's called podcast pro. So if you've ever considered starting

00:03:08.220 a podcast of your own and doing something similar to what we're doing here, whether it's having the same

00:03:12.280 types of conversations or something completely different, my job in this podcast pro course is to

00:03:18.020 pull back the curtain, let you know how we've secured guests like Andy Frisilla, Sal Frisilla, Grant

00:03:23.860 Cardone, Tim Kennedy, Jocko Willink. The list just goes on and on. We had David Goggins on TJ

00:03:29.880 Dillashaw. I mean, we've had some incredible, incredible guests. I want to show you how to secure

00:03:34.020 those guests. I want to share with you how to share a message and articulate your voice and put

00:03:40.380 something out into the world. And I also want to help you create a life that ultimately that you're

00:03:47.360 proud of things that you enjoy and work that you love and having meaningful conversations and just

00:03:52.840 doing some incredible things through the work that you love and sharing a message. So if you're

00:03:56.480 interested in starting a podcast, again, I believe it starts the end of this week. It's March 1st

00:04:01.420 as when we're starting. You got to get signed up quickly because we're getting things going and we're

00:04:05.300 hitting the ground running. I'm going to share with you how to have these conversations, connect with

00:04:08.980 people, the equipment to use, the types of conversations to have, everything that I know

00:04:12.640 about podcasting over the past four years. So you can head to orderofman.com slash podcast pro

00:04:18.920 orderofman.com slash podcast pro. And we'll get you set up with that guys. Let me get into the

00:04:25.080 introduction today. Again, I had mentioned that we're meeting with Sal Frisilla. He's a good friend

00:04:28.700 of mine and we've been connected for, I must be two or three years now. And I've had the opportunity

00:04:34.700 to meet Sal and his headquarters for first form. And I'm telling you, this guy is absolutely

00:04:40.260 incredible. Not only is he an incredible business owner and leading that organization, he is an

00:04:46.180 incredible father, very athletic, putting himself out there, doing some amazing things. He's the VP of

00:04:52.680 operations, I guess. And the reason I say, I guess the VP of operations for first form is because

00:04:58.640 when I asked him about that title, he explained to me that he doesn't really use that because he does a

00:05:03.680 bit of everything from running the organization to sweeping the floors. And after, like I said,

00:05:09.560 visiting him at the headquarters, I can tell you that's true. He does everything. But after he

00:05:14.720 faced a gruesome, gruesome injury, we'll have to link this up. It was a baseball injury on his track

00:05:20.620 to become a professional baseball player. He had to rethink his approach to life and create something

00:05:26.460 entirely new. And that's when he started in the early years of first form with his brother,

00:05:30.740 Andy Frisilla, who a lot of you guys are familiar with. So gents, you are going to love this episode.

00:05:35.780 You're going to be inspired by this man. Like I am every single day. And I hope you're taking notes

00:05:40.520 and I hope it inspires you to pay your dues along your path to success.

00:05:47.500 Sal, what's up, brother? Thanks for joining me on the show today.

00:05:49.720 Ah, dude, thanks for having me.

00:05:50.760 You said you were looking forward to this one. I've been looking forward to it just as much, man.

00:05:53.780 You know, it's not often where I look forward to meetings, right? Or calls. And you know,

00:05:56.620 it's one of those things I've watched you from the horizon grow and watched your brand grow and

00:06:00.220 appreciate what you've done and really supporting the quote unquote man community, right?

00:06:04.680 Well, it's much needed. That's for sure. So I'm glad you're part of this for sure.

00:06:07.860 Trying to become more active in it one step at a time, one message at a time,

00:06:11.140 one leader at a time. So it kind of takes somebody to take charge.

00:06:13.960 That's a great point. And I think there's not very many people who do. I mean, that's one thing I

00:06:18.000 notice of you and your brother, just your organization in general is you guys are always willing to be

00:06:22.540 assertive and put yourself out there and really take charge and take lead when I think a lot of

00:06:26.620 people just sit back kind of passively. Not everybody's designed to lead, but I think

00:06:30.260 everybody likes to be part of a winning team. And really, if you look at our organization top to

00:06:34.540 bottom, it is primarily men. We have some females in our system and quite honestly, they're kick-ass.

00:06:39.580 But when you look at our men, we employ about 150 guys total, 100 underneath my little realm.

00:06:45.300 A lot of them come from maybe not a strong father presence, you know, like not being,

00:06:50.380 I don't want to say not being raised correctly because I have a lot of great kids that work for

00:06:54.020 me. I have a lot of great men that work for us in the walls here at First Form. But, you know,

00:06:57.920 they find that bond of what we do, you know, through struggle in general, it's more of them than

00:07:04.780 really anybody in their lives did. And we raised that standard. We hold them to that standard.

00:07:08.760 And it's cool to watch these kids grow and develop underneath our system. You know,

00:07:11.620 we have kids who work here 10, 11, 12 years, you know, and they started here when they were 17,

00:07:14.940 18, 19 years old. And to watch them develop into young men has been a fun process.

00:07:17.880 I think that's one of the things that you do best just from the outside looking in.

00:07:21.340 What's the balance though, between finding somebody who's going to fit well into the

00:07:24.740 culture that you guys have created and grooming them into the type of person you're looking for?

00:07:29.300 I made a post about this a couple of weeks back about, you know, building men of character.

00:07:32.960 Probably the most frequent question I get is where do you hire your guys from? Like,

00:07:36.680 where's this special place? And I jokingly respond, like, you know, we have a farm out back,

00:07:40.880 we just grow them, you know, bring them in. You know, a lot of times the millennials get the short

00:07:45.520 side of the stick right now. You look at our parents' generation, right? We walked uphill both

00:07:49.320 ways in the snow. That's kind of like what, you know, we make fun of them. But I think men of

00:07:52.820 character are built. You know, the one thing that we're very diligent about top to bottom,

00:07:56.820 my brother was very good at instilling core values out of the gate here, but enforcing them.

00:08:01.380 We have a joke. They call me the toilet Nazi or the bathroom Nazi because we create this locker

00:08:06.020 room environment. I grew up in a locker room, so that's kind of how I run the ship, if you will.

00:08:10.020 It's very accountable. We call each other out. I'm equal, right? You can call me out. You can call me on my

00:08:14.320 shit. But if you piss on my toilet seat, we have what's called a kangaroo court. And so it's a bang

00:08:18.580 box. And so if you catch somebody slipping outside the core value system, you write it down on a piece

00:08:23.040 of paper and you bang them for a monetary value. And so every week we go through the bang box and it

00:08:28.420 could be you pissed on a toilet seat, you didn't clean it up, you didn't wipe the sink off. And as

00:08:32.580 little as maybe you walked over a piece of trash and, you know, that's your responsibility. You see the

00:08:35.900 piece of trash in the ground, you walk over, you should pick it up, put it in the trash can. And so

00:08:39.780 we have a kangaroo court and you write it down on a piece of paper and say, hey, you know,

00:08:43.100 I sell for seller bang Ryan $5 for not wiping down the sink, put it in the kangaroo court.

00:08:48.160 We develop a little system. It's fun. That's awesome. Helps keep guys accountable. And nobody

00:08:52.040 likes being in the bang box. No, you don't want to be in there. What do you guys do with the money?

00:08:55.540 The joke is we're going to have a party when we finally raise enough money that

00:08:58.380 the problem with that is, is we've got about a hundred guys. So I'm gonna need a hell of a lot

00:09:01.880 of money in that bang box. It's kind of counterproductive too, because the idea is you don't want any

00:09:05.420 money in there, right? Which is good. Cause I only got about $65 in the thing right now.

00:09:09.280 Well, a hundred, we had a $40 bang this week. How do you determine what's worth more as far

00:09:13.680 as the penalty? The penalty is, is you write it down on a piece of paper. So we elect three random

00:09:18.300 people from the crowd, just like a jury system. If the court says you're guilty, you got to pay

00:09:21.780 the fine that was issued. If somebody gets caught speeding and they say, Hey, I issue a hundred

00:09:27.420 dollar fine for this person and they get denied. The person who wrote the bang has to pay the hundred

00:09:31.660 dollars. Oh, so you're not just doing like frivolous, just random stuff. I mean, it's,

00:09:35.040 it's legitimate stuff. It makes you really think through the process, right? Like what's the crime

00:09:38.700 meets the punishment. And when you look at like, if people really thought that way, we'd probably

00:09:42.300 have a much better society. No, that's a great point. I think there's so many consequences that

00:09:46.300 are just stripped away from people in general that they can just do. Well, just random stuff,

00:09:51.380 you know, that that has serious impacts on not only in their life, but other people's lives.

00:09:54.840 And they keep doing it over and over and over again, because there's no opportunity to learn

00:09:59.400 from their mistakes or nobody holds them accountable to those mistakes. You know, like a big problem with

00:10:04.220 society right now is accountability. You know, everybody wants to push blame and blame everyone else

00:10:08.560 for their problems. When in reality, like it's not really how you're impacting yourself. It's how

00:10:13.020 you're impacting others. But what role did you play in that situation? And I think that gets lost in the

00:10:17.200 shuffle. You know, a lot of, and this isn't millennials, this is, this is, this is young

00:10:21.460 people in general or just people, right? Right. They want to point that finger. It's not my fault.

00:10:25.700 It's your fault. When in reality, if you had any role in that conversation or any role in that

00:10:29.360 situation, you need to look at yourself first. How do you train people to do that though? Because

00:10:34.140 they have been in a lot of cases, hardwired and conditioned through, well, a lot of social

00:10:39.860 conditioning from the school system to potentially helicopter parents, not to think that way. So how

00:10:45.060 do you take somebody who potentially thinks that way now to, Hey, we're going to start taking

00:10:50.160 accountability for our own actions. There's only one way to lead. And it's by example,

00:10:54.080 you are exactly what you tolerate in that sense. And I think a lot of people, and again, it starts at the

00:10:58.780 top. You want to push that blame. But the truth is, is they're going to, it's monkey,

00:11:01.240 PC monkey do. You're going to catch a couple of guys speeding or in the early days, especially

00:11:05.220 when they're young. Of course. But over time, if you're really, truly building men of character

00:11:09.300 and really showing them that way, they'll mold their example. Now there's a couple of times you

00:11:13.120 got cracked that whip along, you know, along the ride. But I think for me, what I try to do and what

00:11:18.480 I, I, my second layer is my generals, what I really try to make sure that we hold each other

00:11:22.840 accountable and we're, we're setting the example for what's to be expected.

00:11:26.040 How does your hierarchy work then in the organization? You say your second line,

00:11:29.140 your generals, how does that work? You're the vice president of first form. Is that right?

00:11:33.020 Sure. Or whatever. Okay. Tell me about it, man.

00:11:36.220 Well, what side do you want to know? I got to manage my brother too. And he's above me

00:11:39.220 technically in pay grade. So yeah, well I know Andy. So sometimes that could be a tall order.

00:11:43.480 There's only gray hairs on my head for one person and for one person only.

00:11:47.120 But I, you know, listen, I've been managing his ass for 37 years. So it's not, this is not new to me.

00:11:52.160 And it's, it's how much older is he than you?

00:11:54.040 22 months. Okay. So you guys are pretty close.

00:11:57.140 We've been fighting for literally 35 years. Yeah. Yeah. I bet.

00:12:00.500 You know, the hierarchy is, I don't know, you know, or maybe that's not even the right word.

00:12:04.260 I mean, maybe it's something else entirely. I think my inner circle would be a better,

00:12:07.500 would be a better word or a better phrase. And the reason being is because the guys that I trust

00:12:11.960 the most, and that's why I tell them your goal should be to linchpin yourself to me as close as

00:12:16.080 possible. Just like I've linchpin myself to Andrew and we're in this center circle and it's earned

00:12:20.040 through trust. We don't write contracts. And the reason we don't have titles and things of that

00:12:24.400 nature, I'm president one day, vice president the other day, marketing director the next day,

00:12:27.960 and I'm floor sweeper the next day. The buck stops with somebody, but sure. I think it's an

00:12:31.560 inner circle of trust. And when we come down to make these big decisions, it's bringing the guys

00:12:36.040 who have been along the journey, who've paid their dues. And whether you've been here two years,

00:12:39.980 10 years, it's who pours the sweat, tears and blood and with their heart into this organization

00:12:44.240 that we trust most because they have most invested in it. That would be our hierarchy. Our hierarchy

00:12:49.040 would be that inner circle of people. How do you, and maybe you've run into this before where

00:12:53.360 maybe you get too close to your guys. Is that a thing where it starts to get a little bit too loose

00:12:58.880 and thinking that we're closer, we're buddy, buddy more than we really are. And that loses or breaks

00:13:03.780 down some of the accountability and the, the authority, if you will. Yeah. It happened to me

00:13:07.920 early. Actually managing people was a very tough game for me because I've always been a locker room

00:13:12.300 guy. Andrew and I actually, we used to fight about this all the time. You run it like a locker room.

00:13:15.440 And I'm like, Oh, I'm trying to run it like a locker room. He's like, you can't do that. You know? And you

00:13:18.480 got to establish authority. And how, so what would you say about a locker room? Just so we can get

00:13:22.260 the context here. For me, championship teams are built in the locker room. It's that sense of

00:13:26.280 togetherness. It's that sense of struggle. I believe that all great relationships are forged

00:13:30.440 and they're usually forged through pain and struggle. Sure. We have 51 guys going to do an

00:13:34.220 Ironman in May or excuse me, a half Ironman, the Ironman people roast me for saying that.

00:13:39.020 Right. You'll get in trouble over that. These are all guys in first form.

00:13:42.080 Yeah. Aren't some of our independent reps. We have 13 of us total from corporate going down,

00:13:46.440 but I believe that forges that relationship, you know, through struggle, you learn a lot about

00:13:51.180 what they're made of, about who they are. And so I like to put them in positions of discomfort

00:13:55.220 because it really, you really get to see them from a different angle. The locker room for me,

00:14:00.160 I've been very fortunate to be a part of, you know, some winning teams and to see that chemistry in

00:14:03.840 that mix, you know, from top to bottom, the coaches were always a good part of the locker room,

00:14:08.260 but they, they learned to draw that line in the sand where I am boss. And I will crack that whip.

00:14:11.880 But I struggled with that early specifically, you know, with a few of my guys, because they were

00:14:15.920 guys that I drank beer with, hung out with. And, you know, how do you call your friends out? How

00:14:19.960 do you tell them they're fucking lazy? How do you tell them, you know, like, how do you, where is

00:14:22.860 the line? And I would get, I remember I used to get real nervous about it. I used to get real

00:14:26.200 uncomfortable with having that conversation. And my dad, actually, my dad's the best leader that I've

00:14:31.560 ever known. Best friend. He's a fucking awesome guiding light for us. And, uh, sorry, I have a

00:14:36.200 horrible mouth and, um, I'm sure you're used to it. Yeah, I am. We just got done with the David

00:14:40.840 Goggins interview. So I haven't heard you swear once. It's a, yeah, that dude's fire. It's a,

00:14:48.460 you know, so he used to say, you just got to say it. You just got to tell the truth. You will not

00:14:52.340 get in trouble. You will not have a regret for telling the truth. They might not like what you

00:14:55.360 have to say, but they can't be mad about it. And that took me a little bit because what I used to

00:14:58.940 do is I would kind of try to glide the truth in there. And what I realized is, no, I'm just going to

00:15:04.340 tell them the truth. And if I'm honest with them, if I'm consistently honest with them and they know that

00:15:08.500 my heart's in the right place, what I'll do is I'll eventually gain their trust and they know.

00:15:12.120 So now when I crack the whip, if I got to pull them in and say, Hey guys, like, it's not because

00:15:15.580 I'm mad at you. It's not because I don't like you. It's not for any other reason, but you're

00:15:18.380 fucking wrong or you fucked up, you know? And so, and I've earned that respect. And now it's a point

00:15:22.640 where these kids, these guys I've working for them, I really think they're my kids. And I,

00:15:26.560 and I always try to relate it. If my son was in this position, what would I want to tell him?

00:15:29.980 I should tell him the truth. Yeah. That's a good perspective. Yeah. Cause you,

00:15:33.220 you want what's best for him. Most, I don't say bosses, most people in professional America,

00:15:38.820 they want what's best for them, not what's best for their guys. When in reality, like

00:15:41.780 my whole self-worth is what I make of these young men. That's my entire existence on this planet.

00:15:46.580 I tell people all the time, man, I'm going to be successful regardless. I feel that it doesn't

00:15:51.340 matter how many people show up to my party or how cool I am on the internet. It matters to me,

00:15:54.500 like how many people show up to my funeral and how many people, what stories they tell about me when

00:15:58.140 I'm dead. What do they tell my kids? What do they tell my son and my daughters? And like the stories

00:16:02.860 that live on, that's what matters to me. And for me, it's changing those young men and leading

00:16:07.420 in the right way. It's taken all of my mistakes that I've made, which I've made a fucking ton of

00:16:11.380 them and saying, Hey, don't go that way. I've already been that way. You get bit down there,

00:16:15.420 you know, with my young guys, especially a lot of it's typically women trouble. They get in trouble

00:16:20.460 with the females pretty regularly. I'm like, Hey, I got a lot of experience in fucking those up.

00:16:24.500 You should ask me first and then go do it. The other question is, will they even take that

00:16:29.340 advice? Right? Sometimes we just have to learn on our own. You know, you learn fire is hot.

00:16:32.860 Don't you? Yeah. You got to touch it. That's right. Because you need to know what hot feels

00:16:36.080 like. I don't understand what that perspective is. All right, we'll go touch it. You'll tell

00:16:39.340 you. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Well, one of the thoughts I had, because I watch you on Instagram

00:16:43.660 and I see your Instagram stories and Andy's Instagram stories. And I'm like, man, these

00:16:47.800 guys are like crossing the PC culture line at times. And I'm wondering like, has that ever

00:16:52.040 come back and bit you guys or got you in any trouble? Definitely. Andrew, I would imagine.

00:16:56.640 I don't know what his DM box looks like, but I'm sure it gets lit up here and there. Oh man.

00:16:59.740 I see some of that stuff. I'm like, Whoa, that's scary. I don't know if I'd go that far,

00:17:03.140 but he's not doing it from a place to be an a-hole or anything like that. But, and you

00:17:06.980 can clearly see that. And I know him. So. I say all the time, this is something like,

00:17:10.980 listen, I think white jokes are funny. I think black jokes are funny. I think Asian jokes

00:17:14.140 are funny. I think God, you know, like you can make fun of me. I'm the first guy to go

00:17:16.920 in the pot. And I think, you know, what I've always tried to do with branding myself, I'm

00:17:20.420 me, man. If you know anything about me, I like to have fun. I like to have a good time.

00:17:23.620 And I am the butt of the joke. You want to make me the butt of the joke? And I can

00:17:26.220 be that guy throw me in there. You know, I've always tried to put that out there and

00:17:29.640 let it ride. I don't get too much of the PC hate, to be honest with you. I think I don't

00:17:34.040 really give a shit if they don't like it either. You know, if you go Manila right in the middle,

00:17:38.020 right. And you're just going to kind of want to like float in the middle, whether you're

00:17:40.900 right wing or left wing, those people will never love you. You're just going to kind of

00:17:43.980 float in the middle. Whereas if you have a little bit of edge to you and you take a stance,

00:17:47.120 at least the 50% of people over here will love you, you know, and they will get behind

00:17:50.460 you and they'll drive with you. I'm not going to be a jellyfish and just float around the

00:17:53.840 sea. I'd rather get in my little spot and make those people love me.

00:17:56.220 Yeah. I think that's a great point too, because even when you're talking about showing tough

00:17:59.880 love to your guys, I think there's probably, and correct me if I'm wrong, but there's probably

00:18:03.620 a lot of people who have voluntarily weeded themselves out because they can't handle

00:18:07.800 your directness or your approach or the culture that you guys have created.

00:18:11.180 I tell them all the time. I have a Monday morning meeting with my entire staff and I tell them all

00:18:15.360 the time, if you don't like what we're saying, if you don't like the core mission, if you don't

00:18:19.100 believe in what we're doing, the door's right there. I'm not mad at you. You go take what you've

00:18:24.320 learned here from a skillset and you go apply it somewhere else. You will be the very best

00:18:27.500 employee they have. I promise you, you will likely make more money. I can promise you,

00:18:31.520 you're not going to have a better opportunity. You're never gonna have more fun. And I won't

00:18:33.740 be mad at you, but you can walk right out that door. It's one of those things like I genuinely

00:18:37.100 want what's best for that person too, but it's easier for me to get rid of them without having

00:18:40.760 to have that constant battle of what we should be or what we're not going to be or him challenging

00:18:46.240 the thoughts. Like if you don't believe in what the core mission is and get the fuck out,

00:18:49.340 but if you do strap your boots up and let's roll the ones who think they're tough, they get weeded

00:18:54.280 out pretty quickly. Yeah. Why do you think it's so hard for people to have that approach? Cause I

00:18:59.880 see what you guys are doing. You're very convicted in what you believe. You know exactly what you stand

00:19:04.460 for. You live by it. You hold each other accountable. You don't let those boundaries be

00:19:08.760 crossed, but I don't think that's common. I think more common is people who are wishy-washy and kind

00:19:16.580 of waffle on what they think and, and might be different in different crowds. Why is it so

00:19:21.180 difficult for somebody to behave more along the lines of what you're talking about?

00:19:25.720 It's tough to have those tough conversations, man. You talk about PC. It's kind of, I don't

00:19:29.800 say it's washed the, how you handle situations, but it's never, the society has not taught us to

00:19:34.680 be tough in that regard. And that tough love situation, all of the coaches that I played for

00:19:38.980 my entire life, all of the leaders that I've followed have shown me tough love, honest,

00:19:43.560 tough love and pointing me in the right direction. I didn't like hearing it. Sometimes it made me

00:19:47.480 resent them. Yeah. The end of the day, like when I look back on it, I can think of the coaches

00:19:51.860 that literally shaped me to be the man that I am. And I think about offering those kids a way out,

00:19:57.560 a segue to walk out. And I think, you know what, that'd be good for them if they left,

00:20:02.220 because they'll look back on this day and they'll say, you know what, I didn't like what he had to

00:20:05.240 say. And I had to go learn for myself that whether I was right or wrong, they have to go learn that

00:20:09.060 for themselves. They have to go learn fire is hot. Right. And so from my perspective, I need to give

00:20:13.200 them the best answer that I can tell them the truth. And from their perspective, I want them

00:20:17.920 to know that I had the best interest in heart. And you know what, maybe they had to go find it on

00:20:21.040 their own. So the fear of losing somebody is a tough conversation. Yeah. Being honest with somebody

00:20:26.900 is a tough conversation. But what you realize, it's kind of like the journey of losing weight.

00:20:31.620 It's easy for me to sell you a quick fix seven day diet. It's tough for me to tell you, hey, listen,

00:20:37.420 it's going to take you four, six, eight, 10, 12 weeks to change your life. But if you do the work,

00:20:43.000 you follow the plan, you're willing to sacrifice all of these other things. You can get the fucking

00:20:47.400 result. It's easy to make the seven day sale. Of course. It's hard to have that tough conversation

00:20:52.280 with somebody saying, hey, I can change your life, but you're going to give me 12 weeks. Because

00:20:56.480 when you have that conversation, that person could walk right out that door when you could just as

00:21:01.520 easily have this sale. And we've transitioned that same model of molding our employees.

00:21:05.640 We use it with our customers. If you're honest with your customers, yeah, you may not get that

00:21:09.940 first sale. You may not get it. You'll earn their trust because after they fail diet two, three,

00:21:15.080 four, and five, they'll come back to you. You say, hey, listen, this plan I laid out for you.

00:21:18.980 And when you deliver there, you're now the Messiah, because you know what? You've shown them the way

00:21:23.140 on how to change their life. And that's our model. That's how we roll. And this is cool because

00:21:26.460 this isn't just something that you guys talk about. I've always been really impressed. And even just over

00:21:31.180 the past couple of days, I don't know where I saw it, but I saw a couple of emails or comments,

00:21:36.520 maybe it was on Instagram or something about your guys' customer service. And I've experienced it

00:21:41.320 myself personally. I'm just blown away with the way that you take care of your people.

00:21:45.820 And I think that ties into what you're talking about here is like, hey, we got to take care of

00:21:50.940 people. We've got to do the right thing. And we've got to play the long game as opposed to the short

00:21:54.480 game that everybody else seems to be playing.

00:21:55.880 In the supplement industry, especially, man, the supplement industry is a very

00:21:59.280 quick fix, get quick money. It's a shady business, if I'm being honest.

00:22:03.520 It's easy to hide what ingredients are in there. Are you really putting together a quality product?

00:22:07.880 It's easy to hide behind some of that stuff, it seems like.

00:22:10.300 Yeah. And clickbait marketing. There's all these things out there. And it's selling the quick fixes

00:22:14.760 and wrap this around your body and lose 20 pounds in three hours. And as a consumer, what you realize

00:22:19.660 is they're lost. There's no education around how to change your life from a nutritional or

00:22:23.860 supplement standpoint. And I think from our standpoint, we've always said, hey, you don't

00:22:27.680 need supplements to change your life. I need to teach you how to eat. I need to teach you the role

00:22:31.840 of protein, carbs, and fats. I need to teach you how to exercise. Let's just start slow. Let's start

00:22:36.880 walking. If we start getting some results and you start buying into this, let's talk about

00:22:41.080 supplementation, how supplements can make that process easier. But unless you buy one or two,

00:22:45.820 don't even buy supplements. Don't even come into our realm because I don't want to sell you

00:22:48.840 something you don't need. I got to teach you this first. And so our process has always been

00:22:52.840 education, trust, loyalty. If I can educate the consumer on how to get some results, when they

00:22:57.780 go get results, they'll come back to me because they start to earn a little bit of trust. Now,

00:23:00.940 if I can deliver the results two, three, four times, what happens is they end up becoming loyal to us.

00:23:05.900 And when they're loyal to our circle, they bring their friends. And the fastest way to double your

00:23:10.200 business is create results for your customer, have them go tell a friend or two friends. And what I've

00:23:15.060 learned is you start changing people's lives, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 100 pounds at a time.

00:23:20.720 They usually tell more than one friend. And so our customer service to kind of wrap this back in

00:23:25.280 is staff of fully NASM certified personal trainers, certified weight loss specialist. And our goal

00:23:30.300 is to teach these people how to change their lives, whether it's calling them on the phone,

00:23:34.540 handwritten thank you card, returning an order, sending them the right product because they ordered

00:23:38.240 the wrong product, but making it have a personal connection and then taking that extra step and

00:23:41.980 saying, Hey, what else can I do to help you out? How else can I teach you? Are you slipping on a step?

00:23:46.260 I mean, there's a video on YouTube about a guy calling in because Andrew said on one of the MFCEO

00:23:50.220 podcasts, Hey, call our customer service. If you need spark plugs on your car.

00:23:54.680 Oh, I think I remember hearing that. Yeah. Did somebody call in and ask for that?

00:23:57.600 Yeah. It's actually on YouTube. It's pretty funny video.

00:23:59.400 Oh, that's funny. I have to check it out.

00:24:00.860 It's cool because the guy calls in and he's asked, he's like, Hey, I got a, whatever,

00:24:03.800 2007 Dodge Ram. I'm trying to get spark plugs. And he's in our customer service guys. Like,

00:24:08.500 well, you know, this is first form or a sports nutrition company. He's like, yeah,

00:24:11.440 I know. I was just calling. He's like, ah, man, I'm kind of lost, hung up the phone.

00:24:15.380 And about 30 seconds later, you see the guy smiles again. Our customer service agent called

00:24:19.180 him back and said, Hey man, I went and found the guy who knows most about motors inside our

00:24:24.220 company. What type of car do you have? Again, I'm on Google. Let me figure out what, you know,

00:24:28.160 how we can help you here. That's awesome, man.

00:24:30.380 So taking really that core value, which is one of our core values of whatever it takes

00:24:33.820 to make sure that we can make our customers experience a more, really just a more pleasurable

00:24:39.420 experience. Because as the day of the internet becomes more and more prevalent, you know,

00:24:43.840 one click society becomes more and more prevalent. The one thing that can't change is human interaction,

00:24:48.340 which when you're going down a journey of changing your life from physical fitness,

00:24:51.720 whether it's losing weight, gaining weight, or really just gaining some self-confidence,

00:24:55.480 you know, that starts with some personal interaction because somebody has to teach you

00:24:58.620 that process. And I think the struggle, again, coming back to building a culture or community,

00:25:03.900 you know, they have to know that the people in these walls, in this culture,

00:25:06.280 know what the struggle is like and can help them through that journey. And we got a full office.

00:25:11.700 Literally, I hire our customers. We have guys in our office that have lost 10, 20, 30, 50, 100,

00:25:16.600 200 pounds, and they want to move here and live their entire existence inside St. Louis. And these

00:25:21.300 are the people that now connect with other people getting ready to go on their journey. And so

00:25:25.120 it's important, man, because to me, it's not about a seven-day diet fix. It's about changing

00:25:31.040 somebody's life. And I think our crew here at First Form, I couldn't be more proud to go to battle

00:25:35.780 with guys every single day than I am the group that we have here. And I would put them against

00:25:40.000 anybody at any time in any business. Yeah. I mean, I can tell you guys have done just a great job

00:25:44.560 with that. I was going to go back to when you were talking about the easier conversations and the

00:25:49.360 harder conversations. I think a lot of the times we fool ourselves into thinking that if we're softer

00:25:53.840 on people, we're actually helping them. But the reality is, is I think when we behave that way,

00:25:59.540 it's actually very selfish. That's really the motivation. It's not that you're trying to protect

00:26:03.680 somebody else. It's that you're trying to protect yourself from feeling awkward or uncomfortable or

00:26:08.980 having this difficult conversation. I mean, you couldn't describe it any better. I mean,

00:26:12.540 that is a very selfish action because you're like, Oh, I don't want to hurt them, but really

00:26:15.920 you're just, you don't want to do it. Yeah, man. And trust me, I have been there. I mean,

00:26:20.120 we all have no doubt. Nobody wants to be like that. I can remember when, you know, we started hiring

00:26:24.920 some guys and we're like growing, you know, and I'm like, Oh, you know, you've got to go in Hunter and

00:26:28.740 you got to tell these guys like, Hey, you suck. Or, Hey, what the fuck are you doing? Like,

00:26:33.500 you can't do that. You know? And I remember like, Hey, maybe you shouldn't talk to the customer that

00:26:38.040 now I walk out there. I'm like, listen, motherfucker, you cannot fucking do that. This

00:26:41.440 is why. And you know what? They learned to respect you more. Cause it's like, all right,

00:26:45.160 cool. Cause you know what you realize they don't want to mess up either. They want to do the best that

00:26:49.140 they can. And so like, they're sitting here striving. And if you let that person slide and slide and

00:26:53.160 slide, they're going backwards. They're regressing. They're not progressing. So, you know,

00:26:57.520 understanding that holding that line and holding them accountable and really calling them to the

00:27:01.140 curb is like, you're doing what's right by them. And that progression also for the individual who

00:27:06.000 has to deliver that message, it gets easier and easier. And quite honestly, you can make it a

00:27:09.700 humorous situation. Like now I just turn it into busting balls, you know, like, Oh, don't worry

00:27:13.740 about this guy down here. He doesn't need to do that. You know, it's, you have fun with delivering

00:27:17.360 a message. So. No, that's cool. You guys do a good job with that. So how long have you been

00:27:21.720 with first form then? Because you haven't been with first form since the beginning, have you?

00:27:25.840 Well, a little bit after the beginning. So. Okay. Yeah. Walk me through that timeline a

00:27:29.720 little bit. Cause I want to talk about your transition. Cause you were on a completely

00:27:33.380 different path than you are right now. Yeah. It's been a pretty interesting road.

00:27:36.700 Yeah. I'm sure, man. I want to get into this. So walk me through the timeline just a little

00:27:40.060 bit so we can understand that. I was drafted in 2003 to play baseball in St. Louis Cardinal

00:27:43.860 organization. I was like, I was the 2,330,000 pick of the draft, but I got my name called. So

00:27:49.740 that's kind of cool. That is cool. That doesn't mean then you'll necessarily play for the Cardinals.

00:27:54.320 You have to work through the minor league program. Is that how that works?

00:27:56.940 In basic terms, there's about six levels of minor league baseball, six different teams

00:28:00.340 you've got to get through. Okay. I made it about halfway. It was fun, man. I'm a St.

00:28:04.960 Louis kid. You know, I'd got drafted by the hometown team. I had a lot of fun. I had an

00:28:08.300 injury happen in 2004, 2005. I don't even remember anymore. I broke my leg at a collision at home

00:28:14.220 plate. You know, it was over. That's what happened. And so it's pretty interesting. I spent my entire

00:28:17.880 life playing baseball and this is what I was going to do. I played in high school, played in college,

00:28:21.720 played every summer, got drafted. I was doing the deal. That's a good perception mindset

00:28:25.920 conversation. We could have at a different time, but I always only thought that I could

00:28:28.900 go to the minor leagues and that's where I ended up. Let me stop you on that for a second. Do you

00:28:32.400 think you, I mean, just based on what you're saying, do you think you sabotage yourself or

00:28:36.060 something? Like where are you going with that? Set your goals high, you know, because you'd be

00:28:39.740 really, really surprised what you can do. And I think, you know, when I got to the minor

00:28:43.720 leagues, I kind of, that was my ceiling. I was like, I want to get drafted. I want to play in the

00:28:46.740 minor leagues. I don't know if I'll really ever have a shot playing in big leagues and sure as

00:28:51.000 shit, look at me, look where I ended up. I think it was a good smack for karma for me personally,

00:28:54.260 because you watch some of the guys you play with progress on. And you always think to yourself,

00:28:57.980 well, man, yeah, I could have done that. Or I could have been that. And that's where actually

00:29:01.080 where my fork in the road was. My fork in the road was I could be this bitter. This happened to

00:29:05.260 me. I broke my leg in a collision at home plate, or you know what? I'm 24, 25 years old. I'm going to

00:29:09.920 go make the best of my life that I possibly can. From that point, you know, I went through rehab and

00:29:13.940 you're a rehab. And I ended up getting released. I went on to sell copiers, sold like photocopy

00:29:19.020 machines. I don't even really have them anymore. Copiers, fax machines. And it was funny because

00:29:23.360 it's, I went from playing minor league baseball or, you know, you tell everybody professional

00:29:27.020 baseball because 22, 23, like my goal was to go out and find chicks, right? I'd be at the bar. Like,

00:29:32.560 what do you do? I'm like, ah, I'm a professional baseball player. It's what we all did.

00:29:35.260 And we had no shortage of finding women, right? Then I break my leg, I move out.

00:29:39.460 Then I'm selling copiers and you'd be at the bar. It's a totally different conversation. Now I'm

00:29:43.140 thinking, Oh man, picking up chicks is a hell of a lot harder when you tell people you sell copiers,

00:29:47.240 you know, like, yeah, just be like, Oh yeah. Oh, I know Albert Pujols. Yeah. I trained with

00:29:50.840 Mike Matheny. Like I know all these guys. Yeah. This is my boss, Steve. Um, we sell copiers,

00:29:56.580 you know, it was a bad, it was a bad transition, but work my way through it. So then you come like,

00:30:02.440 I'm a technology sales specialist. You come up with some, Oh yeah. You got to have the clever title,

00:30:06.300 man, for sure. And I was a D bag at the end of the bar, you know, rocking the suit, doing the thing and

00:30:10.120 had a pretty good little sales career because I learned everything you need not to know about

00:30:14.120 sales by selling copiers. And it was tough, man. It was a door-to-door sales job and, and I wouldn't

00:30:18.540 trade it for the world. Shaped me to who I was today. I know what cold calls are like. I know

00:30:22.840 what knocking on doors are like. I know when I got to look my guys in the face and say, Hey, listen,

00:30:26.620 it's going to take you a hundred calls. What does it got to do? You know, it's what you go through.

00:30:29.360 And selling copiers taught me everything you need to know about being a door-to-door salesperson.

00:30:33.500 From that point, I went on and I worked for Johnson and Johnson. I got,

00:30:36.220 I was fortunate enough to land a medical sales job. I had a pretty good sales career inside the

00:30:40.860 Johnson and Johnson world. The rep of the year, a couple of years, top earner of the year, a couple

00:30:44.240 of years. And about that time, Andrew and Chris had supplement super stores. My brothers, Andrew

00:30:48.280 Fursella and Chris Klein, they, they had supplement super stores at the time. They had about eight or

00:30:52.800 10 stores and they had a brand that they were coming up with. And you say, Hey, you know, at some

00:30:56.800 point in time, maybe, maybe we can have, you know, a brand that we sell nationally. And, you know,

00:31:01.520 would you ever be interested in selling? I'm like, yeah, you know, they were starting to become

00:31:04.800 successful and I was doing well and they were doing well. I can remember vividly being in the

00:31:10.220 OR cause I would, I would assist in surgery and you'd be in there, you know, I sold hernia mesh

00:31:13.920 and breast reconstruction tissue. And I was just like, okay, yeah, this isn't my jam, man. Like

00:31:18.600 I'm not going to do this the rest of my life. And it's, it's kind of like conversation we had before

00:31:21.400 we went on the air with you is like, you know, if you don't do it, you never know if you regret it

00:31:24.440 or not. Yeah. I can remember we went to the Starbucks. I go to that same Starbucks every single day

00:31:27.980 of my life. It's the only time I've ever been to a Starbucks with my brother. We sat down,

00:31:32.020 laid out a little game plan of what we're going to do. And first form started. It had already kind

00:31:35.500 of Andrew and Chris had it in motion. It had about six or eight months underneath its belt or a year

00:31:39.140 underneath its belt, but we were going to take it national. And man, it's 10 years ago. And I can

00:31:44.760 tell you the first three years, I fucking sucked. How so? I had spent five, six, seven years of building

00:31:50.100 this sales technique of delivering to doctors. And I was having these high level conversations of big

00:31:55.640 hospital organizations. And I had to switch and transition into being the new guy on the block where

00:31:59.940 nobody knew who we were. We had a mission, but the mission really didn't fit the economy at this

00:32:04.560 time. And we were going to go out and change the world. Were you guys formulating your own

00:32:08.560 supplements at this point? Or were you, how did that work? I mean, was it your own product at this

00:32:12.900 point? We make a manufacturer own product. It's a new facility. Now it was a little bitty facility back

00:32:16.820 then. Right. Yeah. No, I know what it is now. I'm just curious if it started that way. No, no,

00:32:20.540 God, no, no. Yeah. It was a little shithole, man. Like it was a little, when I say a little shithole,

00:32:25.140 it was a clean little shithole, but it's, it was a process, you know, you used to learn and you hire a formulator.

00:32:29.920 And you build a formula. And then, you know, we had a manufacturing facility here. We had a partner

00:32:34.200 back then, you know, and he would walk through the process to keep all the CGMP and all the search in

00:32:38.460 place. And got it. I don't miss those days at all. I can tell you, I, the first three years, I, it was

00:32:44.780 91 nights in a row, 93 nights in a row, 76 nights in a row. And I can remember because when I moved from

00:32:50.620 Johnson and Johnson, I was doing really, really well. And, and, you know, I had the job. I literally had

00:32:54.540 the job. I made mid six figures. I worked 20, 30 hours a week. Most. I did whatever the hell I

00:33:01.640 wanted, whenever the hell I wanted. I remember when I left, everybody said, you're crazy. Just

00:33:05.760 like the conversation we had. Like if I wasn't going to do this, man, like I would always regret it. And

00:33:09.300 I remember about year three, I was thinking, fuck, I made the wrong choice. Yeah, I bet. I went backwards.

00:33:13.360 I don't know how this thing's going to work, but you persevere and you keep going. And we started

00:33:17.680 gaining a little traction and social media came around. This is the early days of Instagram,

00:33:21.880 about five years ago. And then we just started making stupid videos and telling people who we

00:33:25.720 were and letting people know we're good people. And like our, this is our mission because when I

00:33:30.400 would call on door to door supplement shops like GNC, but the local owner, mind you, I have zero

00:33:35.620 interest or zero background in sports nutrition at this point in my life. They're like, we're going to

00:33:40.480 change this industry. These guys are like, yeah, buddy, we've heard this before. And I'm like, okay,

00:33:45.320 well then I walk into the next one. We're going to change this industry. And we got social media and

00:33:48.640 sure shit, like start pounding it. And here we are changing the industry. And so it's been a long

00:33:53.140 road. It's been a fun road though. I mean, I tell people all the time, like you can, you can keep

00:33:56.980 your, I'm on top shit. Like I'd give me the struggle. Give me the journey. Cause that's when

00:34:00.300 all the fun's had. That's when all the stories are told. That's when you have perspective. You

00:34:03.860 look back and say, dude, do you remember when? Yeah. I remember all of those things. I remember when

00:34:07.820 we had a 4,000 square foot shithole warehouse. You know, I remember when there was only four of us in

00:34:12.520 this building and we didn't have enough product to fill the entire racks in the back. I remember all those

00:34:17.300 things. You know, I remember staying here on, on Christmas night, trying to figure out how we're

00:34:20.760 going to get this app to launch for the, my transformation. Like I remember those things,

00:34:24.280 but those are all part of the perspective. That's part of the fun. That's the journey.

00:34:27.640 That's what you look at the most. It seems like when things are struggling. I mean, I remember

00:34:31.060 specifically you're running a much larger organization than we are. But one of the things I look back fondly

00:34:36.560 on is my wife and I trying to sit here in my basement, the one I'm in right now, filling a hundred

00:34:41.840 t-shirt orders, you know, up until 12 or 1am trying to fill these orders out of our house. And I'm

00:34:47.200 like, I don't do that anymore, but I do look fondly at that time, man. It's funny. You say that. Cause

00:34:53.040 there was a time when we didn't have enough orders. We had one guy in back. We had three guys up front

00:34:57.720 at three o'clock. Mind you, our UPS guy picked up at four. We would all go back there. We would

00:35:01.540 write the notes. We write handwritten thank you notes on every single order that went out. And we

00:35:05.520 still do that today. And by four o'clock we had all the orders packed, which is like 50, 60. We would

00:35:12.360 put them in one of little crates and put them in the back of the UPS truck. And we'd be like, man,

00:35:15.400 we had a really good day today. You know, we had a really good day. Then you'd go home and you'd be

00:35:18.660 like, man, you know, I'd tell my wife or girlfriend at the time, be like, we were busy today. You should

00:35:22.700 have seen how more, how many orders, you know, at any given time we have 41 guys out there packing

00:35:27.200 orders, but you go out and tell those guys like, listen, and I, and this is the pride aspect of,

00:35:31.600 you know, taking pride in everything you do. Like I tell them all the time, like I will pack a box

00:35:34.920 fucking better than you. I promise you that. And you want to put it through the test, call me any day.

00:35:37.740 I'll come out here. But having that perspective and let them know you still got it in the game is,

00:35:41.580 is a fun, but the struggles, the entire process, like everybody's like, Oh, what happened if you

00:35:46.300 guys sold out or what would happen? I wouldn't know. I wouldn't do it because I'd have nothing

00:35:49.580 to do. Yes. This is what I do every day. This is what forged who I am. Like I'm not leaving this

00:35:53.960 place. Did I see correctly that you have a new warehouse or a new facility or something like

00:35:58.560 that? Is that coming online soon? Yeah. Well, we, we had, yeah, we rented a place next door.

00:36:03.760 Okay. Yeah. And so we have to, because our build out of our new facility, which is just a couple

00:36:08.040 miles away, you know, it's going to be a 15, 16 month process for us to get it up and out the

00:36:12.280 door. We're not going to be able to house inside the warehouse we are now. So we, we had to rent

00:36:17.240 the space next door, move in. We're going to re-rack it and get it set up for distribution as

00:36:21.100 well. So, and then you're going to move the entire operation in the next year and a half or

00:36:24.620 whatever to this new warehouse. We might have to get a place in the interim as well, but is that

00:36:29.080 right? Yeah. If that's what we got to do is what we got to do. We'll figure that out. Hey,

00:36:32.080 growing pains, right? I can tell you it's better than going back and packing a hundred t-shirts in

00:36:36.200 your basement for a couple hours. You know what I mean? Until one o'clock in the morning.

00:36:39.260 Yeah. Well, this is what we were talking about is like, you'd rather be stressed out because

00:36:42.580 you're busy and you've got things to do and you're moving and you're hiring people and you're

00:36:46.900 shipping products then stressed out. Cause you don't have enough going on.

00:36:50.300 We got to go find another 25,000 square feet to feed it for a couple of months. Then that's

00:36:53.820 what we got to go do. And you know what? Yeah. This is not a bad problem to have.

00:36:56.700 Oh, and I'll take it. Are there problems? Hell yeah, there are problems, but you know,

00:36:59.240 and you still bitch about them. It's okay, but they're great problems. And I'm very blessed and I'm

00:37:03.260 fortunate to have that. It is what it is.

00:37:05.100 I want to go back to your baseball career because I knew we were going to have this

00:37:09.040 conversation. I knew a little bit about your career, but I watched this video of that collision

00:37:14.040 at home plate. So did you break the tibia and fibula? Did you break both bones, snapped them in

00:37:19.600 half? Let's use this word career. Like, you know, you're using a career. Like I had like a career.

00:37:23.640 I had like a, I had like a short stint of every dive bar in the Midwest and the South and a career,

00:37:31.460 right? Maybe a far stretch, but no. Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. I broke my tip fib in a collision

00:37:36.860 at home plate. You can Google it if you're listening right now. I'll probably link it up

00:37:40.600 so the guys can see it, but did it get caught underneath you or I couldn't even tell quite

00:37:44.600 what happened. We're in a playoff race and basically loaded. I was on third and, and it's

00:37:48.580 actually really interesting. I had about 10, 10 of my cousins in the stands. They'd never seen me play

00:37:52.800 before. Ground ball to first guy infields in guy fields, ground ball, throws it, actually throws

00:37:57.500 a ball in the dirt. And I was coming, like I'm coming to clobber this guy. Like I'm going to,

00:38:00.320 right. I like to play aggressive. That's how I am. Right. My intentions were to knock him the

00:38:03.940 fuck out. And guess what? I broke my fucking leg. Throw was down in the dirt. Guy ducked,

00:38:08.900 literally just ducked my knee. My shin hit his knee and bam, snapped it in half. Flipped over him,

00:38:13.540 did a couple of tumbles. And I remember looking up pop Warner. Who's he's a bench coach in the

00:38:16.940 Cardinals. Now I looked at him. He's like, touch home plate, turn around, crawl my little fat

00:38:20.680 back, touch home plate, look back at my leg. I said, Oh shit, that's broke.

00:38:25.320 I was impressed with that, that you, I mean, I didn't see the coach guiding you to do that or

00:38:28.820 anything, but to see you, I mean, you must've known or had something registering at that point,

00:38:33.900 but for you to go back and touch home plate. So did he drop the ball? You were safe. You scored

00:38:37.560 there. Yeah, I was safe. Everybody's like, Oh, how bad did it hurt? I mean, your adrenaline's

00:38:41.280 rolling like crazy. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. I'm sure. This is the power of the brain, right? Like

00:38:45.020 not, not that it shut out the pain completely, but it felt like a tuning fork. I knew it was broken. I

00:38:49.760 didn't realize it was broken that bad. I'm going to crawl back, took a peek at it and saw shit.

00:38:53.680 And at that time, what happened and what was happening in your brain or my brain, anyhow,

00:38:58.200 not that I have much of one, but I'm processing all of the journey. And I thought, cause I knew it

00:39:02.360 was pretty bad. And I'm thinking, son of a bitch, man, like, is it like, is that it? And then you

00:39:06.800 start having that conversation with yourself. Like already you were having that conversation in your

00:39:09.960 head. It's natural. And when you're looking at like the bottom of your foot, you know, but yeah,

00:39:13.260 it's hanging the wrong way. Yeah. You're like, Holy shit. So it kind of like takes you into a

00:39:18.160 different world. You're almost like looking at it from a, from a out of body experience,

00:39:21.420 kind of saying, all right, well analyze the situation where you're at and what do you do?

00:39:24.460 And you know, a lot of people always say like, are you pissed off about it? Does it bother you? No,

00:39:29.160 it's it's quite honestly, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. I tell my guys this all the

00:39:33.120 time. Losing that dream is what keeps me going for this dream every single day. Because I know

00:39:40.320 baseball is a, is a really interesting sport and I didn't give baseball its due. I didn't give

00:39:46.720 myself a chance, a real chance to succeed in that arena. And it's, and it's quite honestly,

00:39:52.520 because I didn't believe, and this goes back to our conversation earlier because I was a little

00:39:56.340 scatterbrained, but now starting to focus in and you start thinking, I didn't almost believe that

00:40:01.520 I should be there and nor did I believe that I should take it to the next level. And I didn't

00:40:05.500 pay my respects. And so I started acting like a big leaguer or, you know, like a top level baseball

00:40:10.340 player when I was in the minor leagues at a, at a low a baseball level. And, but I wanted to live

00:40:16.240 that big league rockstar lifestyle, but I didn't pay my dues yet. And here I was more worried about

00:40:20.860 going out to the bars and live in that glamorous life when I wasn't shit, you know, and I hadn't

00:40:26.820 done shit. That's the truth. I was just a piss ant that had an opportunity to play. And most likely

00:40:32.040 I was playing because I was just filling a roster spot because I didn't have somebody better to take

00:40:34.960 my job. You know, it's not like I was some $25 million a year guy. I was just a pawn, but my ego

00:40:40.720 put me up here and I didn't pay my dues. And you know what? The baseball gods kicked me right in the

00:40:45.060 nuts. I'm okay with it because I understand that I didn't give it what it deserved. And, and so having

00:40:51.280 that dream stripped for me has allowed me to really recognize what it is that I have here. And it's

00:40:57.200 allowed me to, to appreciate that. I have a lot of work to do. We as a company have a lot of work to do.

00:41:01.940 If we're going to be at the big league level in life, we got a lot of work to do and I'll never

00:41:07.420 take that for granted ever again. And so that being stripped for me and that, and that dream and all

00:41:11.340 that work and how many swings I took and how many trips I traveled. I mean, you think about how many

00:41:15.960 hours I spent on a bus in college. I mean, it's, it's countless, all gone, but only if you take it

00:41:21.400 that way, you know, it's, it's all a learning lesson. And so, you know, I try to paint that perspective

00:41:25.320 to my guys that you got to pay your dues and you're going to have to pay them for a long, long time

00:41:29.120 before you party like a rockstar for that. I'll, I'll forever be grateful, man. Let me just stop

00:41:36.000 timeout pause real quick. I want to explain to you something that we've got going on in April.

00:41:41.680 This is critical, critical work. And if you're a father of a son between the ages of eight to 15,

00:41:48.800 I want you to pay very close attention. I think that the landscape and the environment and society

00:41:54.600 in which we live is becoming increasingly difficult to raise strong, masculine, motivated,

00:42:03.120 ambitious men, the type of men that we were raised to be in the type of men that we aspire to be like

00:42:08.220 it's becoming increasingly difficult to do that. And as I see this trend continue,

00:42:12.740 I don't want to just complain about it. I want to do something about it. So last year we did a father

00:42:17.980 son event in the mountains of Southern Utah. It went so well with those 20 fathers that we decided

00:42:23.040 to do another one and tweak it and adjust it and change it and make it better and improve it.

00:42:26.920 And we're doing that April 11th through the 14th. I've got as of this recording three spots. So

00:42:32.240 by the time you're hearing this, I might have one or two spots left and I want to make sure that you

00:42:36.700 get there if you're interested. So head to order of man.com slash legacy. You're going to watch a

00:42:42.360 video from our last event in the fall of last year, and you're going to be able to learn about what

00:42:47.520 the event is about. We're going to be challenging you and your son physically, mentally, emotionally.

00:42:52.140 We're going to help you forge a deeper bond and a deeper connection and come up with a code of

00:42:56.100 conduct for each other and for yourselves. Absolutely incredible, life-changing, relationship

00:43:02.100 changing experience. All you have to do is get to Las Vegas on April 11th. We're going to pick you up.

00:43:07.000 We're going to shuttle you to our lodge. We're going to get you right into the thick of things.

00:43:11.020 We've got a Navy seal on board to teach us firearms training, and we're doing some other cool things

00:43:15.000 that I can't really disclose because the secrecy behind what we're doing is, is part of the,

00:43:21.240 part of the event itself. All right. So check it out. Order of man.com slash legacy. You and your

00:43:26.500 boy between the ages of eight to 15. Again, that's order of man.com slash legacy. I hope to see you

00:43:31.520 guys there. Go ahead and take care of that after the show. But for now, I'll get back to my conversation

00:43:35.340 with Sal. You said that you don't feel like you paid it the respect that it deserved. And I'm not

00:43:42.620 going to be one that wants you to like dwell on the past necessarily, but what would it have looked

00:43:47.640 like if you paid it the respect that it deserved? And then secondary to that, how does that look,

00:43:52.900 that same attitude look now that you're down this different path? This is the internal competitive

00:43:57.420 piece of me. Well, I mean, what does it look like if I paid it the respects? I mean, one of my,

00:44:01.200 I, I mean, I trained in the off season with Albert Pujols and Ryan Howard. I mean, those guys are

00:44:05.760 making 27, $28 million a year. They're hall of fame caliber guys. They won MLB all-stars. Like,

00:44:11.580 would I have been that? Maybe not, but I definitely would have spent some time there. And, and,

00:44:15.980 and I know I'll never know, like, that'll be a regret that I'll always have because I didn't pay my

00:44:20.240 dues. I didn't pay it what it deserved for it to even give me an opportunity to have that chance. So

00:44:24.360 for me to say, Oh, I could be one of those guys. I'd just be lying. I'd be like everybody else. But the truth

00:44:28.620 is, is like, what does it look like? I don't know, because I didn't pay those dues. That's that

00:44:33.220 piece of me that I'll always hang, but I don't regret that. But the competitive side of me is

00:44:37.380 that means I got to go pay my dues over here. And that means I got to put it in the paint

00:44:40.380 every single day. And, and in order for me to compare myself to them and it's uniquely different,

00:44:46.400 but this is how competitive I am. So, all right, well, I'm going to have to change a lot of lives,

00:44:50.700 which means I'm gonna have to a lot of help a lot of people lose a lot of weight for me to make 27,

00:44:54.740 $28 million a year. So I got to start doing this math equation to figure this out because

00:44:57.700 when I see Ryan Howard, you know, like, Hey, uh, Rhino, like, I know I didn't do it back then,

00:45:02.000 but I'm doing it now. You know, but it's not about the money for me in, in the grand scheme of

00:45:06.740 things, but no, but that is a, I mean, let's be real. That is a metric. It's not the only or even

00:45:11.460 the most important, but it certainly is a metric. It is the metric actually, you know, how much value

00:45:15.860 you drive and how much, how much impact you have. The money comes with it. Like the best NASCAR driver

00:45:21.540 makes a lot of money. The best painter makes a lot of money. The best stripper makes a lot of money.

00:45:27.240 I mean, there's a lot of like, if you're the best, the money comes with it. Sure. Our goal. And my

00:45:32.820 personal goal is to be the very best in this arena and helping people change their lives that you

00:45:37.760 possibly can't be. And I think we're on that path. Just from what I've seen, you're definitely on

00:45:41.780 that path. I mean, you guys have done some incredible things and a couple of your, I don't

00:45:46.580 know, what do you call them? Clients, customers, family. I don't know what you call them. You call them

00:45:49.380 family, right? We have the legion of boom and they're our family. So it's kind of like dual name

00:45:52.840 family with pH. If I, if that's how it works, but anyways, I've had a couple of these guys reach out

00:45:57.200 to me and just to see how you've impacted their lives and what they're doing, not only with their

00:46:01.940 physical transformations, but their relationships and their businesses and every element of their

00:46:06.740 life has improved because of what it is you're doing. And of course we don't want to discount

00:46:11.180 their work as well. Our equation for helping somebody change their lives is we can lay out the

00:46:15.160 leadership. We can lay out the game plan. We can lay out every, we can lay out your diet.

00:46:18.080 We'll help you literally give you the information, give it to you. You don't need supplements. You

00:46:22.320 don't need anything. And that's 50% of it. That's 50% of the groundwork. The other 50% you got to pay

00:46:28.120 and you're going to have to pay it in blood, sweat, tears, and sacrifice. I'm sure there are a lot of

00:46:31.940 military guys saying, Oh, blood, sweat, tears, sacrifice. They don't know what it is. But I'm

00:46:34.960 telling you right now, if you watch somebody who's 350, 450 pounds, getting ready to go on that

00:46:39.440 journey, they're going to, they're giving it, man. And it's going to be a long ass lonely journey for

00:46:43.680 them to change their lives. And so when you watch them sacrifice that 50%, you watch them really gain

00:46:50.460 what it is that they're designed to do as a human. And that's the piece for me that's most

00:46:54.920 rewardful because you watch these people gain back their freedom of themselves. You watch them gain

00:46:59.720 self-confidence. You watch them become better fathers, mothers, husbands, sisters, brothers,

00:47:04.660 leaders in their community, leaders in their family, all because they're taking control of their

00:47:09.020 life. And that is a piece that no matter, you can't buy it, you can't lease it. You can't ask

00:47:14.600 somebody to borrow it. You, there's only one person that can pay that and that's you. And that's the

00:47:18.600 beauty about, you know, our system and our program is whether it's physical or mental, you're getting

00:47:23.200 ready to watch these people gain back control of their physical selves. And that is the single most

00:47:27.260 rewarding thing that we do here at first form is help people regain that sense of self, regain that

00:47:32.060 confidence because there's not a better feeling, literally a better feeling on earth than letting

00:47:36.560 somebody regain control of their life. It's very much in alignment with what we do here,

00:47:41.060 which is why we're connected. I mean, we relate to each other because I think we're on very similar

00:47:44.760 paths, even though we might be coming from it from a different perspective. I think we're both in

00:47:48.980 agreement of how transformational these types of conversations and activities can be.

00:47:52.920 I was saying it before we even hopped on air is I've been a sideline watcher because, you know,

00:47:56.920 like I told you, like I don't hunt, I don't camp, I don't do, you know, quote unquote,

00:48:00.620 the man things in that regard. I'm, I'm sports driven instead of outdoors driven, even though I love

00:48:04.980 the Drury brothers brought us a bow and I got this cool PSE bow. We got a little shooting lane next

00:48:09.700 door in my head. Like that's what I want to do. Or I love, I could love doing it, but it's just not

00:48:14.180 part of my realm. That doesn't make me not love what you do. I love the food every day. I love the

00:48:18.700 core commonalities of, and I think in a perfect world, like, I'm like, man, maybe I go out of this

00:48:22.380 place and we go hunt, you know, like we should do that. Absolutely. We should do that. That doesn't

00:48:26.680 make us not join together and have a lot of core commonality and what it takes to be a good human.

00:48:30.780 And most importantly, especially for you, what it takes to be a great man.

00:48:33.520 Yeah, absolutely. So I know that you guys are big level thinking. You're always thinking about

00:48:38.540 what's next and what's bigger and what's better. Of course, that's not to say you aren't satisfied

00:48:42.260 or happy with where you're at, but what is on the table for you guys? Like, how do you,

00:48:46.180 how do you take an organization like you've created? Most people would probably say objectively that,

00:48:51.660 you know, you guys have been successful and a lot of people would probably be pretty content and

00:48:55.960 satisfied with where they are. If they were in your shoes, how do you continue to expand and grow?

00:49:00.620 And what's next for you guys? We got a long way to go. Just like you said,

00:49:04.040 you know, a lot of people, I think they'd be content where we're at, but the driver for us

00:49:08.140 as an organization is not money. It's not dollars. I think about the winners who have won our eight

00:49:12.100 week and one year challenges and people who have literally lost a hundred pounds and you watch them

00:49:16.440 gain that freedom back in their life. And for me to trade that for money, that's not my goal.

00:49:20.920 That's not, you know, do we want to get to a billion dollars? Yes, of course. Do I want to get to

00:49:24.100 $5 billion? Yes, of course. But you think about all the people that are left out there that we

00:49:28.460 still have the opportunity to change their lives. You know, that whether it's 10 people or a thousand

00:49:33.060 people, we are the company that are, that is literally taking that charge and making that

00:49:36.860 pathway into that realm right now. And I feel, I think it's my obligation. It's our obligation as

00:49:40.800 a company to stay in that lane and literally change two, three, four, five million people's lives.

00:49:46.000 And I think even then, and I'll go for 10, you know, what is the limit? There is no limit.

00:49:50.800 The limit is one day I'm going to die. And on that deathbed, you're going to think,

00:49:53.860 man, I wish I would have fucking done more. And I don't want to have that regret. You're going to,

00:49:57.460 we're all going to have it to some level. I want to have it to the least level that I possibly can.

00:50:02.400 Sure. Yeah. It makes sense. When you guys started first form, I mean, you're talking about changing

00:50:07.080 a million lives, 5 million, 10 million lives. Was it just a business at that point? Was it like,

00:50:13.060 Hey, this is a way I think we can make some money. Or did you always have that type of vision

00:50:16.460 to say that, you know, Oh, well we didn't want to make money. I mean, I would be lying,

00:50:20.540 right. I mean, right. And I got to be sure that guys know this, that there's nothing wrong with

00:50:24.200 that either. I mean, I think there's too many people out there who believe that if even an

00:50:29.060 inkling of your motivation is financially driven, that somehow you're an evil human being. And I

00:50:32.860 think that's the furthest thing from the truth. That's because they have a bad relationship with

00:50:36.560 money because they're either a, they don't know how to make it or B they were raised to think it's

00:50:39.880 bad. It's all the rich guy up on the Hill. He's an evil person. Well, rich guy on the Hill might be

00:50:44.260 somebody who's changed 10 million people's lives or he might've invented the fucking toothbrush.

00:50:47.920 You know what I mean? You know, you'd like a toothbrush. I use, you know, so I've always

00:50:52.020 learned that the relationship of money for most cases is somebody's driving a lot of value. And

00:50:56.280 if you look at both Andrew and myself and a lot of the guys in our organization, the real mission

00:51:00.140 for us is, you know, I'm a fat guy. I am a fat guy at heart. My brother is overweight. I am

00:51:05.360 overweight. And it is a struggle, struggle. My daily physical self is a struggle. And some people say

00:51:11.380 I am arrogant, confident, cocky, whatever the hell you want to call it. I'm all of those things in one.

00:51:16.020 And you know what, when it comes to taking my shirt off, I'm an insecure, I'm very insecure,

00:51:19.700 super insecure. I know that journey of taking control of your physical self. And I know what

00:51:24.220 it does for you. I know what it does for you, not only physically, but emotionally. My brother

00:51:28.080 does as well. And so when you look at our company model, there are so many misleading products in

00:51:33.200 the marketplace today. And all of these people who struggle with being overweight, they never get

00:51:38.360 told the right way to do it. They get told to buy this pill or take this supplement or buy this and do

00:51:42.940 this. When in reality, that's not the answer. You know, the answer is teaching them how to eat

00:51:46.440 properly, teaching them, you know, what's the difference between a protein, carbon, fat. Most

00:51:49.640 people don't know that peanut butter is a fat. They think it's a protein or a black bean is a

00:51:53.700 carbohydrate. They don't understand that. And so genetics plays a role in this. Some people don't

00:51:57.760 want to have that conversation, but I will. And if you have that fat gene, like you have to struggle

00:52:02.440 and you have to go through that process and you have to teach yourself, how do I eat properly?

00:52:06.780 Well, if the supplement industry is just selling these people quick fix pills, quick fix pills,

00:52:11.260 well, eventually they quit and they raise their hands and say, well, fuck it. I'm fat. That's

00:52:14.060 what I'm going to be. Right. And you look at all these dads, especially, you know, bringing it back

00:52:17.520 to the topic here, who give up on being a dad who gets down on the ground and plays with their kids

00:52:21.600 or take some camping or take some hunting or gets out and plays baseball with them. They give up on

00:52:25.500 it because it's, well, well, screw this. I'm fat. That's just part of it. And then we're encouraged

00:52:28.780 to celebrate it. Like come up with cute little terms called the dad bod and then celebrate

00:52:32.420 mediocrity instead of actually working the issue. That's setting a great example for your kids.

00:52:36.460 You know, exactly. What do you think their kids are going to look like? You know why? Because it doesn't matter.

00:52:39.540 You're going to be fat anyway. You know why? Because I'm fat and you have the fat gene.

00:52:43.020 Well, that's a shitty example to set. I've watched this happen so many times, including in the mirror

00:52:48.140 with myself, knowing what it can do to take control of your physical self. And so our mission,

00:52:54.080 you know, is to go out and help honestly, people like us teach them the right way to do things,

00:52:59.640 the right way to gain control of their physical self. Consequently, what's happened is we started

00:53:02.940 becoming a little bit successful. My mom's 80, 90, a hundred pounds overweight. What do you think

00:53:07.480 happens when she walks into a supplement store? They probably tell, Oh, you should take this.

00:53:11.180 And I guarantee if you looked at my mom's cabinet, she has every diet pill from the internet ever

00:53:14.740 existed. You know why? Because she's afraid to walk in and have a conversation with somebody

00:53:19.360 to help them change their lives, including me, right? I'm her kid. She's not alone. There's

00:53:24.660 literally tens of thousands and millions of people who struggle with that same thing.

00:53:28.660 We need to figure out how to connect with those people. That's our goal. If we connect with those

00:53:32.280 people, eventually, once we start getting them moving in the right direction, we get that train

00:53:36.160 rolling. Will they need supplements? Most likely. Do we sell them fat burners? No, they need

00:53:40.480 multivitamins, greens powder, protein powder. Once they lose 20, 30, 40, 50 pounds, guess what?

00:53:45.340 They love it. They buy t-shirts. All right. Our goal is to help them be successful. We can help them

00:53:49.100 change their lives. They'll start buying shit from us. And it's kind of just spawned into this huge

00:53:53.680 movement and community. Yeah. What is your physical fitness look like? What's your regimen? I mean,

00:53:59.280 you're working out every day. What does it look like for you? I'm a dad of three. I guess we

00:54:02.880 should probably get that in there somewhere. Right. So I thought there was two. So three now

00:54:06.740 I have three under 14 months. So. Oh yeah. So you have, what do you have? You have twins then?

00:54:14.320 Yeah. All by the same lady too. If you're processing on your head. Yeah. Yeah. So I have a son when my son

00:54:21.560 was six months old, we found out we were pregnant with twins. Oh, so I remember I didn't know you had

00:54:25.960 twins. I remember when I first met you, I think you had just barely had your first. That's your

00:54:31.480 son. Yeah. When you met me, actually my, I had Enzo. My wife was probably pregnant with the twin

00:54:35.260 girls. That's crazy. Crazy dude. Crazy. That is crazy. Seven, eight months of my life. I do not

00:54:40.800 remember. I mean, literally do not remember. They brought them home. They were four pounds,

00:54:44.480 five ounces. So were they born premature? They're identical twin girls. So they, I think it was a 37

00:54:49.660 weeks. We, we got them out and they were little, man. It was, it was a wild ride, dude. We'd have to get up

00:54:55.200 every hour and a half and, and feed them. And she was breastfeeding at the time. So she'd have,

00:54:59.260 you know, double bolstered and I'm wiping and changing and, you know, doing the whole deal,

00:55:03.120 man. And our kids, you know, Enzo's in his crib. He's crying. I'll be running in there. It was some

00:55:07.260 trying times of life, but I'll tell you, watching those kids play together now and, and watching them

00:55:11.940 develop into little humans has been the joy of my life. Isn't it pretty incredible? So did you get to

00:55:17.000 bring home the girls right when they were born or no a NICU or anything like that? We were blessed.

00:55:22.140 No NICU babies were healthy. We had to spend five days. She was C-section and spent five days there

00:55:26.180 and, or whatever, four days we were able to bring them home. My wife is actually a NICU nurse. Oh,

00:55:30.320 okay. So that helped the cause a little bit. You know, she wasn't scared of anything. We kind of

00:55:33.540 brought them home, but you know, I kind of liked the hospital life. Honestly, it's a hell of a lot

00:55:37.160 easier when they come. Yeah, man. You guys want to take a nap? We'll take the babies. You can take a nap.

00:55:42.100 I'll be like ringing the bell. You know, I felt like I was at the Four Seasons.

00:55:44.940 It was cool. Cause I had my buddies, they bring up beer. In fact, this is, this shows the character of the

00:55:50.160 guys that worked for me. They would literally load up a pickup truck full of barbells, dumbbells,

00:55:56.180 plates, medicine balls, sandbags. They bring it to the hospital. We would do a workout in the,

00:56:01.980 in the parking lot. We would run laps and we would do, you know, whatever stupid competition we could

00:56:07.120 come up with, but they literally would drive all the equipment. We would work out at the hospital

00:56:10.540 and they would take off and head home. Really? That's cool. It was bad-ass dude. We got our guy. I'm,

00:56:15.020 I'm so incredibly proud of our team, man. I got, I got some of the best fucking kids on planet

00:56:19.140 earth that work for us. That's awesome, man. We got sidetracked a little bit. We're going to talk

00:56:22.760 about your physical fitness. No, it's okay. It's good. I like to hear that stuff, but we're going

00:56:26.400 to talk about your, your physical fitness, uh, regimen. It varies. So what I've learned for me

00:56:30.580 personally is I got to have a new goal. I got to have something to take down. Otherwise the fat Sal

00:56:35.560 come back. So for me, it's ironically six, one, 240 pounds. I have to do long endurance events. I have to

00:56:43.500 do something that taxes the brain for twofold. It's the only time that I have to myself. It allows

00:56:49.020 me to therapeutically kind of think through the struggle. And so it gives me a long time to kind

00:56:52.780 of struggle and really have a lot of no conversations with myself. You know, don't quit, keep

00:56:57.220 going. My dad taught me when at a young age, we'd go run and it would be right foot, left foot. And

00:57:01.180 it's translated into life for me. And in fact, I wrote a post about this a few months back,

00:57:05.180 right foot, left foot. You know, I told my dad when I was doing my first half Ironman, I said,

00:57:08.540 you know, dad, I think he was running with me. He just ran, you know, just like a quarter mile with me.

00:57:12.420 And I looked at him and I said, dad, I might've bit off a little more than I could chew. He said, nah,

00:57:15.240 his little big gym voice would laugh at me. And he said, just like life, man, right foot,

00:57:20.880 left foot, keep fucking going. And that resonates with me still, even when I'm training today. And

00:57:25.440 when I'm talking to my guys today, so what does fitness look like for me? I put a gym into my

00:57:29.580 house and, uh, I try to buy every torture device that I can assault bikes. I ride Zwift. I bought a

00:57:36.000 Peloton. We have challenges. I have a hill out in front of my house. It's, we call it death hill.

00:57:41.380 It's about a 900 feet of climb and two miles. And what I do is I take new employees out and I get

00:57:48.000 my group workouts and we go out and run death hill. I try to take them out there when it's 95

00:57:51.820 degrees, a hundred percent humidity, nothing like the Midwest can bring you. And I want to break them

00:57:56.380 and show them what they're made of and show them a little torture. But fitness for me is fun, man.

00:58:00.400 It's fun. It's functional. It's anything. I want to get outside. I want to hike. I want to run.

00:58:04.620 I want to sweat. I love to sweat. I crave the sweat. That's my, I am not a,

00:58:09.060 let's go do bicep triceps type of guy. You know, I'd rather chop wood. It's what I like to do.

00:58:14.740 I have honestly found a new love for a triathlons. That's kind of like,

00:58:17.880 that's my physical fitness of choice at this point in time in my game.

00:58:20.840 How many of you done now? Triathlons in general.

00:58:23.480 Yeah. I've probably done about 25 triathlons in general.

00:58:26.680 So you've done quite a few. Yeah. The half Ironman, I only, I've only done one,

00:58:29.760 but I've done five or six Olympics. I've done probably, you know, 15 sprints and a couple of

00:58:34.820 mixed match things in there. Seven or eight half marathons. And dude, I'm the guy who I swore to

00:58:40.000 God the day I was done playing, I would never run. I will never run again. I will never run again.

00:58:44.780 And everybody thinks I'm crazy, but running to me and that long distance sport in general,

00:58:50.200 I have to be real careful about calling it a sport. Cause there's no ball involved. You know,

00:58:52.900 and I kind of like, it's different, right? It's, I know like Andy's into, into racing and I don't

00:58:58.520 know whether he calls it a sport or not, but I'm like, I don't know if it's a sport.

00:59:01.260 Listen, I'm with you. Like it's not a sport. Okay, cool. You know, like I'm not doubting it's

00:59:05.460 hard, but I'm like, I don't know if it's a sport. I agree. So, uh, you know, the triathlon thing,

00:59:10.640 I, I, I was never good at any of those disciplines. Maybe riding a bike, you know,

00:59:13.820 you're, I guess you never really practice to be great at, but swimming, like I'm saying, dude,

00:59:16.940 no, but you ever, have you ever swam? You ever swam a mile? I haven't. No. Okay. I challenge you to

00:59:20.900 this. All right. Take me up on this. Okay. Go try to swim one mile. All right. Go try to swim a mile

00:59:26.100 in a pool. I bet you can't get to 500 meters. And I'm telling you that from experience,

00:59:30.280 I got in the pool and I said, ah, swim a mile. There ain't no, that ain't, that's easy.

00:59:33.360 You know, water's holding you up. I literally got to like 75 meters and I was like a mile.

00:59:38.060 There ain't no fucking way I'm swimming a mile. And I'm going to try it. I'm going to try it.

00:59:42.100 It's the challenge. I said, well, dude, I got it. Now that I said I was going to do this,

00:59:44.960 like I got to do it. So one day I just signed up for an Ironman. I said, fuck this. There's only

00:59:47.780 one way to hold my ass accountable. I got to sign up. I'm going to put it on Instagram. I'll put

00:59:51.280 myself, I'm going to put it out there. Sure. Shit, man. It's just started one day at a time.

00:59:55.820 Going on a little run, going on a little, you know, a little swim, a little bike,

00:59:58.520 start stringing them together. And before long, I learned to love the struggle. I think a lot of

01:00:03.540 people run from the struggle and I've learned to really greatly embrace the struggle because you

01:00:07.160 learn a lot about who you are. You learn a lot about where your quit points are. People navigate

01:00:12.620 to comfort. And I think you're built in the discomfort because you really get to see what

01:00:16.980 you're made of. Putting myself out there and putting myself in those situations, I get to really,

01:00:21.240 not only do I get to see what I'm made of, I get to make a new version of myself and start

01:00:25.080 really stressing that because I always, I tell my guys all the time, like, I want to put myself

01:00:29.580 in the most difficult spots possible because if my kids are ever in that situation or if I can ever

01:00:34.260 advise one of my guys, like, I know that feeling. I can relate to them. It's no different than

01:00:37.860 in business. I can relate to the person who's got 50, 60, 70 pounds to lose because I can look them

01:00:43.360 in their eyes and I can speak to their soul. Like, I know the journey you're getting ready to go on

01:00:47.460 and I can promise you. That's right. And so when that endurance comes in, it transitions to every

01:00:53.060 aspect of life for me. And I can look at my son or I can look at my guys. I can look at anybody and

01:00:57.720 look them in the face and be like, listen, I know it's tough. Trust me. I know it's fucking tough,

01:01:01.400 but here's what I can tell you. Just like my dad told me, right foot, left foot, keep going. You

01:01:04.960 got this shit. You know what? It's taught me a lot about life and it's taught me a lot about business

01:01:08.240 and right foot, left foot has really gotten me a long way down that road. And for that,

01:01:12.400 you know, I'm thankful. Outside of that phrase, which I like by the way, right foot, left foot,

01:01:16.880 what do you tell yourself when you get to these, you know, you call them quit points. What is it

01:01:21.200 that's going through your mind that keeps you pushing? So it was pretty cool. A couple of years

01:01:25.080 ago, or actually last year, I had an opportunity to go to Haiti. A friend of mine is involved in a

01:01:29.860 orphanage down in Haiti and I was fortunate enough to go a part of a men's group. And so I went down

01:01:34.480 there, I got to experience life with the kids in Haiti. You see what they have, you drive down the

01:01:39.040 streets and you see these little kids that are naked and they have a, you know, distended bellies

01:01:43.740 and they don't have food and they don't have clean drinking water. They might have to literally hike

01:01:47.040 a mile just to get clean drinking water. We had to go hike up in the mountains, literally, you know,

01:01:51.880 five, six miles up in the mountains, take a foundation for a church. And we ate food with

01:01:56.500 the locals and we carried, we brought our water and you see these kids living up in the mountains

01:02:00.180 and you think about what they go through on a daily basis. And I think about what their struggles

01:02:04.940 are. And I think about how, you know, how hard they have it. And for me specifically in the last

01:02:09.360 year, when I struggle, I think about those kids. You know, I think about now I start, especially

01:02:14.600 having kids of my own, like, and then seeing the perspective that it's not struggle, a side cramp

01:02:19.480 when you're at mile six or your legs getting tired. That's not fucking struggle. Struggle is not being

01:02:24.020 able to have clean drinking water or food and struggle is not having an education. And so when I get to

01:02:30.120 those points, whether it's in business or life, and I start to hear what happens is I tell everybody,

01:02:33.900 you start to feel sorry for yourself. You start to have that negotiation with weakness in your brain

01:02:38.040 about how bad you have it or how bad you hurt. And you know what you realize is you don't fucking

01:02:41.840 hurt those kids hurt. And I think about those kids. And so my driving factor and yeah, it's only been

01:02:47.040 a year since I've been there, but I have to say it repositioned my brain at any time I go through

01:02:50.960 struggle. I think of those kids and, and I've even started a 501c3 30 for the kids charity. You see us

01:02:56.180 do it. We raise money. We support, supported the entire orphanage in 2019, uh, through the family of

01:03:01.540 first form. I owe a lot to those kids that triple forever have changed who I am as a human. It'll

01:03:06.180 forever change who I am as a person. And, and I will always think about them. And, and we talk about

01:03:10.180 those quick points or those pain points. I think about people that are really struggling because

01:03:14.440 going, me going through a little bit of physical weakness or, or mental weakness, that's not fucking

01:03:18.100 struggle. Right foot, left foot, man. Keep that hammer down. I love it. I love it. Well, Hey Sal,

01:03:23.360 as we wind down, um, I want to ask you a couple additional questions. The first one is what does it mean

01:03:27.680 to be a man? What does it mean to be a man? I think you got to set the example for the youth.

01:03:32.880 I think you have to be a man of your word. I think you have to be able to look a man in his eye,

01:03:37.300 shake his hand with a firm grip and do exactly what you say you're going to do. And I think you

01:03:41.060 have to be able to teach children and take care of children. Cause I think all too often, especially

01:03:45.540 in today's society, you know, we, some men forget about kids. I look at those people as they are not

01:03:50.240 classified as men are really quite humans. And in my regard, a man is somebody who can go home and take

01:03:55.420 care of their household and take care of their kids and take care of their wife and, and stand

01:03:58.380 up for what they believe in. Sometimes it's hard to call people on their shit and it's hard to stand

01:04:02.400 up when nobody else wants to stand up when there's some guy being an asshole. But you know what?

01:04:05.960 That's being a man, being a man is not driving a big pickup truck and having, you know, big ass gun.

01:04:10.880 And even though there's nothing wrong with either of those, I fucking, I drive big ass

01:04:14.300 tons of guns, but you know, like it's one of those things that that is a tough question,

01:04:20.100 but I'm going to go with, you got to protect the kids and you got to be a man. You got to stand up for

01:04:22.980 what's right. And you got to lead that way. I think you nailed it, man.

01:04:25.140 I'm in agreement.

01:04:26.040 Well, right on. Well, how do we connect with you? I mean, tell us about first form where we connect

01:04:29.160 there, but then also tell me about what's it called 30 for the kids. Is that what you called

01:04:32.500 it?

01:04:32.840 Yeah. 30 for the kids. So we have a charity 30 for the kids.com. What it is, is you do 30 minutes

01:04:37.380 for the kids and we're going to run one coming up here soon. It's basically 30 minutes of fitness

01:04:41.080 every day for 30 days. You pay $30 to buy in and it all goes to the kids of Haiti at this point.

01:04:46.480 So for $30, you get a t-shirt, you get a limited edition t-shirt, you buy in. And for every day that

01:04:51.080 you miss, you pay a $5 penalty fee. So if you miss a day, you got to pay five bucks.

01:04:55.140 And the 30 minutes of fitness is you can run three miles. You can do 30 minutes on a stair

01:04:59.380 mill. You can do 100, 200, 300, which is 100 pushups, 200 sit-ups and 300 air squats, which

01:05:05.120 that is a son of a bitch.

01:05:06.980 Yeah.

01:05:07.240 And so you choose one of those three workouts for 30 days. You knock it out. If you miss,

01:05:11.140 it's on an honor system. You just pay the $5 fine. A hundred percent of the money at this

01:05:14.600 point goes through the charity. And last year we were able to run 30 for the kids and supporting,

01:05:18.120 let's see, 47 kids for an entire year for food, water, shelter, medical attention,

01:05:22.680 education, and Bible study. So that's awesome.

01:05:25.200 Yeah, it was cool, man. We got a really cool group of people that supporting a good cause.

01:05:28.700 First form is at first form on Instagram. We're also on Facebook, one S T P H O R M.

01:05:34.160 My personal Instagram is at Mr. Fursella, M R F R I S E L L A. That's me, bro.

01:05:40.860 Right on. We'll sync it all up. So the guys know where to go. I just want to let you know,

01:05:43.680 I appreciate you. It's been good to get to know you. I know we haven't had a whole lot of

01:05:46.920 conversations just because we passed back and forth when I've been out there, but I am looking

01:05:50.600 forward to getting to know you better. And I really appreciate how you show up as a man.

01:05:54.180 I can see that in the way that you show up in your business and for your guys. I can see it in the

01:05:58.140 way that you show up with your kids. I admire and respect you. And I've really appreciated the time

01:06:02.460 we had for this conversation, man. Well, I can say the feeling is very much mutual, man. Somebody's

01:06:05.820 got to take that charge and thank you for giving me the opportunity to get out in front of your

01:06:09.120 people. And, you know, it's funny, I'm very self-critical in my head. I'm thinking, man,

01:06:12.500 you're all over the place. You're scatterbrained. Like, I don't even know if they're going to like

01:06:14.640 your message. And I start like mowing through it, but you know, I sit here and I think about the value

01:06:18.400 you've given the people and especially, you know, us guys. Thank you, man, because you talk about us

01:06:22.840 being PC, but you're stepping outside the lines. You got to stay in a little heat, you know, if

01:06:26.060 you're going to be some value. So I appreciate you and giving us the opportunity to be here.

01:06:29.460 Yeah, you bet. You know, I don't mind the heat. I kind of like it every once in a while. I don't

01:06:32.040 mind riling people up. So it's good to be sitting on this side of things for sure.

01:06:35.500 Keyboard warriors, getting them going, baby.

01:06:37.480 That's right, man. It's pretty crazy. We'll make sure the guys connect. We'll make sure you and I stay

01:06:42.680 connected. I'll sync this all up for the guys. And I know everybody listening is going to get value

01:06:47.080 from this, by the way. You know, you talk about being scatterbrained or whatever it may be, but

01:06:50.500 I'm telling you guys are going to listen to this and they're going to hear somebody who's real,

01:06:54.040 somebody who has his own struggles and working on them, you know, trying to figure it out,

01:06:58.300 trying to grow and develop along the way. And they're going to resonate with that.

01:07:01.360 Dude, we're all works in progress, man. That's what you learn. You know,

01:07:03.560 it's one day at a time, try to get better every single day. And if you can do that, you can win.

01:07:08.380 Gents, there it is. Mr. Sal Frasillo. What did I tell you? I told you that one's going to be

01:07:11.820 inspiring, going to be motivating. I hope that you are a little bit fired up, a lot fired up

01:07:16.200 to go out and pay your dues and understand that this path to success is not a short-term track,

01:07:22.080 that it's a long-term one, and it continues to grow and develop and expand. And as we begin to

01:07:26.620 believe that we've got there, that there might be setbacks or the target might move a little bit,

01:07:31.020 but gosh, I hope this gives you some insight. Sal inspires me every day. I follow him on Instagram

01:07:35.760 and I know what he does. And gosh, it's just, it's inspiring to see somebody like him step up in a

01:07:42.380 really big way. And then of course his personality and his ability and desire to share that stuff with,

01:07:47.980 with us. So connect with him on Instagram, very active over there as am I. So you can connect with

01:07:53.680 both of us. Let us know what you think about the show, what you like, what you'll be implementing

01:07:57.900 as far as advice in your life to improve your life and how you're paying your dues. All right.

01:08:04.000 So that's it. Let's see, just to recap the announcements that I had, we've got our podcast pro course.

01:08:08.860 That's going to start March 1st of 2019 this year. So get on that very, very quickly order of man.com

01:08:15.540 slash podcast pro. And then we've got our legacy event, our father and son event, April 11th through

01:08:22.280 the 14th this year, 2019. Again, I think we probably only got one to three spots at this point. So get

01:08:29.440 on that quickly order of man.com slash legacy. All right, guys, I hope to see a legacy. I hope to see

01:08:35.220 you in podcast pro. I hope to see you tomorrow for Kip and I's ask me anything, but until then go out

01:08:40.840 there, take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man

01:08:46.980 podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.

01:08:51.760 We invite you to join the order at order of man.com.

Order of Man - February 26, 2019

Pay Your Dues ｜ SAL FRISELLA

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