Order of Man - PETE ROBERTS ｜ Why Scrappiness Could Be Your Greatest Asset

00:00:00.000 We all know that one guy who is tough and resilient, he loves to fight, and he can make

00:00:05.580 things happen even when he's behind. I think in a way, we all want to be that guy, right?

00:00:11.240 I'm convinced that a man who is scrappy is a man who can achieve anything he wants in this world,

00:00:17.800 even if it first seems out of reach. My guest today, Pete Roberts, agrees, and he knows a

00:00:23.260 thing or two about the resourcefulness and scrappiness it takes to revive an American

00:00:28.400 tradition that is manufacturing. You know him as the founder of Origin and Jocko Fuel,

00:00:34.400 but today we talk about the power of purpose, how and why a man needs to define success,

00:00:39.960 regular people building irregular things, also what he looks for in people to hire and promote

00:00:45.540 to leadership in his organization, and ultimately making yourself capable of carrying heavy burdens.

00:00:52.300 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart your

00:00:57.560 own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time, every time. You are not easily

00:01:03.540 deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are. This is

00:01:10.860 who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done, you can call yourself a man.

00:01:18.960 Gentlemen, welcome to The Order. My name is Ryan Mickler. I'm the host and the founder, and

00:01:23.820 obviously, I'm very glad that you're tuning in. I've got a great one with Pete Roberts lined up,

00:01:28.860 and if you don't know what this show is all about, we've been going for 10 years now in interviewing

00:01:35.060 incredibly successful men in their own right, whether it's warriors, entrepreneurs, business owners,

00:01:41.940 scholars, athletes, astronauts, you name it. We have those individuals on, and I try to break down

00:01:48.620 some of their knowledge and deliver it to you on this podcast. My friend Pete Roberts is on the show,

00:01:53.380 or the CEO of a multi-hundred million dollar business empire, really, at this point, I think

00:02:00.840 you can say. So we're going to get to that in just a minute. Before I do, just want to mention,

00:02:05.540 obviously, more about what Origin does. If you're looking for great geese, great jeans, great boots,

00:02:12.600 I would highly suggest and recommend that you look at their Origin mock-toe boot. That's the one

00:02:17.880 that I use most of, and if you're needing a good rugged boot for everyday wear, or as it turns into

00:02:25.100 the fall, or hiking around, I would definitely check out those boots. They came out of the package

00:02:30.300 ready to wear, broken in, and they are my favorite pair of boots. In fact, a couple of weeks ago,

00:02:36.980 I spilled paint fence, excuse me, fence paint, not paint fence, fence paint all over my shoes,

00:02:43.700 and I was so disappointed because I was worried the boots would not clean up. Fortunately, they did,

00:02:50.380 and they look as good as they did when I got them out of the package with, I will say, a little bit

00:02:55.140 of character. Anyways, check them out over at originusa.com, originusa.com. Let me introduce

00:03:01.420 you to my guest. He is the founder of Origin, and that is a company dedicated to bringing back

00:03:06.980 American manufacturing. Like I said, they do boots, apparel. They've got their nutritional supplement

00:03:13.700 people. Pete is a jiu-jitsu tacticianer. He's got a passion for craftsmanship, but he built origin

00:03:21.120 from a very small startup in rural Maine. I used to live there, and now it's a globally recognized

00:03:26.120 brand. His mission over there is rooted in independence, self-reliance, creating opportunities

00:03:32.860 for American workers, and they spend a lot of time reviving forgotten mills and factories and trade work.

00:03:39.180 But beyond business, he's a visionary leader, and I know that because I've had plenty of one-to-one

00:03:44.440 conversations with him about grit and discipline, resilience, that scrappiness we're talking about

00:03:49.660 today. But his story is not just about building these products. It's about building the American-made

00:03:56.480 movement. He wants to restore pride in American-made goods. So whether it's on the mats or in his factories

00:04:01.880 or even behind the mic, Pete really challenges men to reclaim some of their heritage, to embrace

00:04:09.320 unique and interesting and hard work and lead lives of purpose.

00:04:15.720 Pete, what's up, man? So good to see you. It's been years since we've connected even to this level.

00:04:22.320 We text and that sort of thing, but to be able to connect face-to-face has been a while.

00:04:26.940 Yeah, I know. It's been a bit. Thanks for having me on again. I've been missing getting on your podcast,

00:04:31.480 and talking smack. Well, I've been missing training with you guys. I saw some pretty sexy

00:04:38.000 images by Mr. Joe over there on Origin. He pulled that stuff off well. Was that your doing, or was

00:04:46.800 that his own idea? No, no. I have a new assistant creative director, Gabe, and he came up with this

00:04:53.080 idea. But Joe, I just got off the phone with him, and he's like, Channel 5 wants to come and interview

00:04:57.560 me tomorrow. I was like, all right. He knew you. Just remember you're representing the brand, so you never

00:05:03.600 know what's going to come out of his mouth. Man, Gabe and Joe knocked it out of the park. I've always

00:05:09.580 said that if anybody could do a reality show, I don't know if you've explored this option, but he

00:05:14.900 ought to do one. Yeah. I'm just waiting for when that comes out. We did have a development deal

00:05:20.460 in 2015 with History Channel, and they spent a bunch of money. They sent a whole production company up

00:05:30.700 here, and they did a full-blown development thing for a TV show to kind of follow up Duck Dynasty,

00:05:39.100 and Joe was like the center of it. And then they hired this woman from Lifetime. The CEO had left,

00:05:46.140 and this new woman came into A&E, and she shut the project down. She didn't want real men doing

00:05:52.900 real things, I guess. She wanted gator hunters, but we were that close. I'm glad it didn't happen.

00:05:59.880 You know, in hindsight, I'm glad that didn't happen, so. Yeah, well, I think Joe is going to

00:06:07.500 rival, what's her name? Sidney Sweeney, or whatever her name is, with American Eagle, or whatever that is.

00:06:15.060 I think Joe has got her beat. Some of the photos we didn't show were a little bit more,

00:06:22.320 you know, she's got her boobs hanging out, and he had his gut hanging out, you know what I mean?

00:06:28.360 He's got his belly, but we didn't show some of that. They shot some funny photos, but it was good

00:06:34.940 overall that, you know, just playing off of the whole blue jeans campaign, the American Eagle.

00:06:41.660 Yeah. It was well-timed. Look, I appreciate, I've known you for a long time, what, seven,

00:06:48.920 eight years now? Yeah. And I appreciate the opportunity that you take to explore the fringes,

00:06:55.520 but also, like, do something serious. And there's a little bit of paradox there. I mean,

00:07:01.540 you guys are bringing back American manufacturing, but you're doing it in a fun, playful way,

00:07:06.000 which I think is something that deeply resonates with people as opposed to just nobody knows about

00:07:12.820 manufacturing. I remember one of our first conversations, and I didn't know anything about

00:07:17.100 it. And I only know a little bit about it now because you've shared it with me over the past

00:07:20.680 seven, eight years now at this point. Yeah. I mean, we don't, we don't live on the fringe often,

00:07:25.940 but, you know, the brand is, it's a very serious brand, you know? I mean, we're, we take our job

00:07:34.460 seriously, our business serious, the product serious, but it doesn't mean we're stone cold.

00:07:39.900 I mean, there's still some, there's still some humor and we want that to shine through because

00:07:45.700 it's, it's reality. We're not trying to like, we're not trying to like show the world we're

00:07:51.920 something we're not. And if we make mistakes or tuition payments, or we want to try something,

00:07:56.780 we test and learn. And I think, I think people are scared of that. They're scared of showing their,

00:08:01.380 their real, real self. And we've got a lot of characters that, you know, very well within the

00:08:06.640 company and, you know, bringing those to light and showing, Hey, there's just real people behind

00:08:11.120 this thing. You know, nobody's, nobody's acting. Nobody's, nobody's trying to show the world

00:08:16.300 something they're not. And I think, I think people appreciate that. And I think they appreciate it in

00:08:20.880 both, they appreciate it, but they, they also crave that in this day and age where everything's just

00:08:27.240 so plastic. Yeah. I would agree with that. I think there's a real connection between you

00:08:34.280 and guys like Dennis and Joe and Ty and Jackson, who I think is over on the Jocko fuel side now.

00:08:42.380 Yeah. Yeah. You know, you see these guys and you think, Oh, he gets over on Jocko. Yeah. Is he on

00:08:47.960 the East coast or West coast though? He's on the East coast, but he started his first job ever

00:08:52.280 yesterday for Jocko fuel. Yeah. It's so wild that he's, so he's done with college now.

00:08:58.240 I graduated. Yeah. May. I can't believe that. I remember when he, when he was going to, to call it,

00:09:04.780 dude, that's wild fast. Yeah. Um, me and my oldest son who, you know, Brecken has, has been big into

00:09:13.880 lacrosse over the past, uh, three, three years now. And you, you and Keegan actually were instrumental

00:09:22.300 into that growth. And we actually went up, there's the premier lacrosse league and Utah has a team,

00:09:28.340 the archers. So, uh, last week we went up and watched the archers play, man. It is a great sport.

00:09:35.960 Unbelievable. After jujitsu, second best sport on the planet, in my opinion.

00:09:42.140 Why after jujitsu? Oh man. Cause jujitsu is, um, jujitsu is, uh, so applicable to all facets of life.

00:09:53.860 Um, you know, like, uh, and look, and look, and it's a, it's a metaphor for this for sports.

00:10:01.160 One sec. I got the cat meowing and I don't know why you can't hear that. No, I can hear it. I can

00:10:07.880 definitely hear you hear it. It's okay though. It's good. This is a real conversation. Yeah. Yeah.

00:10:14.480 Uh, so it's, it's, um, it's just got so many great lessons like in sports. And of course I played

00:10:23.460 sports my whole life and then all through college and then obviously into jujitsu after that. And I

00:10:29.740 always say I would give up every sport, every championship trophy I've ever received to have

00:10:34.980 started jujitsu when I was a young kid. Um, because it just, I I've taken so much from it now. Next year

00:10:42.060 is my 20th year in jujitsu, um, timing, leverage balance, when to tap out, when to escape, when to

00:10:50.240 swallow your pride and, um, say I've had enough. And, um, it's like, I call it chess under stress

00:10:57.580 and, and, and most other sports aren't solo pursuits. Uh, you know, jujitsu, although you're

00:11:05.280 doing it with a team, it's, it's like a hybrid pursuit. So you're, you're learning with other

00:11:11.140 people, but it's a solo pursuit in your mind. So, you know, your, your physical and mental,

00:11:16.740 um, you know, capacity you're putting into it. Whereas in team sports, you rely on the team

00:11:23.760 to win, you know, to compete, to be competitive. Um, and so it's a lot also like business,

00:11:30.000 business starts out a lot of times, you know, very entrepreneurial. And that's also a solo pursuit,

00:11:36.480 um, until you sculpt a team around these ideas or your vision. And, um, and sometimes it still

00:11:44.980 feels like a solo pursuit, regardless if you have a team, cause it ends up all being on you in the

00:11:50.740 end, it's all on you. And so jujitsu is the same way. Hey man, it's all on you in the end. And that's

00:11:57.620 why I think it's the best, my long-winded answer is why it's the best sport I've ever played.

00:12:02.840 I mean, I, I would agree. I think wrestling would probably rank right up there. If you're in high

00:12:07.160 school, you know, I remember I wrestled as a sophomore and a junior in high school and you're

00:12:14.460 out there. Wrestling is a little different just because you're almost naked essentially. And

00:12:20.140 there's no hiding unless you're no gi, right? There's no hiding behind a gi or anything else. And

00:12:24.540 you're out there showing everything you got physically, mentally, emotionally. Yeah. And

00:12:30.880 it's you and one other person at the end of the day. And I like that. I actually like that. Yeah.

00:12:36.180 I wrestled right up until I was too tall to wrestle and I started playing basketball right

00:12:40.520 until eighth or ninth, eighth grade maybe, but I was a wrestler. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It

00:12:45.220 was, it was. Yeah. But you could have dominated, man. I did up until eighth grade.

00:12:49.020 Why didn't, why didn't you? You're still tall. You could have just, well, no, I'm saying

00:12:54.580 in basketball, you could have dominated everybody under the board. Oh, oh, no, I wrestled right

00:12:59.140 up until I started playing basketball. So I'm saying I, Oh, got it. Yeah. Yeah. Then,

00:13:03.320 then I figured out in what was seventh grade, I could dunk a basketball and I was like, all

00:13:07.600 right, I got a new sport now. Eighth grade, something. Yeah. It's like, that's like Jed and his

00:13:12.260 boys. They're like six, 10 at 13. I'm like, dude, he, he's got to bring a birth. He told

00:13:19.360 me he's got to bring a birth certificate every time he goes to, uh, uh, a basketball game.

00:13:24.640 Cause the other side's always questioning his boys, his age. Yeah. No doubt. Hey, Maine

00:13:29.000 puts out athletes. I mean, come on now Cooper flag. He's from an hour away. Like he's no doubt

00:13:34.720 man in force and men's basketball right now. No, that's true. That's true. Number one, uh,

00:13:41.800 recruit, I think if, or draft pick, I don't really follow basketball too closely, but I

00:13:46.700 think that's what my boys told me. Number one recruit and number one pick, number one recruit

00:13:50.680 in college and number one pick in the draft. So, yeah. So you, so you talk about, I like

00:13:57.360 that chess under stress is jujitsu, but you also also talk about it in the concept of, of

00:14:02.080 business is chess under stress. You've made some big changes in your business. And I know

00:14:08.200 a lot of guys listening to this podcast are very interested in not only entrepreneurship,

00:14:14.140 solopreneurship, I've heard it called. Um, but you're building something different than

00:14:19.160 that. Talk to me about how a guy can start something. I mean, cause you could have very

00:14:25.540 easily started a business and just maintain the course of jujitsu. Cause that's what you

00:14:30.780 did when you started origin, but you made a pivot and a switch. And I'm really curious as

00:14:35.420 to why you made that switch instead of doubling down into the jujitsu world.

00:14:40.740 Yeah. Um, market dynamics. We can talk about that a little bit. Um, you know, and the purpose

00:14:46.440 of, you know, what we're trying to do and why we're trying to do it. Um, you know, is

00:14:51.020 that, is that introspective or are you trying to affect more than yourself and your own wallet

00:14:57.380 and your own family? Um, so there's a, there's a deeper, deeper meaning and purpose and we

00:15:02.740 can, we can touch on the power of purpose and, um, and all that stuff because that all

00:15:08.020 drives my behavior. Uh, ultimately, you know, um, you're either, you're either taking, you're

00:15:14.900 either a taker of things or a maker of things. And I try to be a maker of things. And I think,

00:15:19.340 I think, um, the by-product of doing the right thing for the right reasons, um, is success.

00:15:25.880 That's what I think the by-product is. And the by-product can be, uh, earning a great living,

00:15:32.160 um, and doing the things you never imagined you could, you could do in life. Uh, so, um,

00:15:41.240 so starting for me, it was, it was first, you know, to try and escape a future recession. I didn't want,

00:15:52.020 I didn't want to be, um, affected by a future economic downturn because I, you know, as you

00:15:59.340 know, I lost my first business when I was in my twenties, unable to pivot off of the recession.

00:16:04.940 And, um, and I just felt like I was part of the froth of what was happening. And I didn't have a,

00:16:14.080 I didn't feel like an individual, um, and that I had power. And, uh, over my life,

00:16:21.640 I felt like whatever was happening in New York city and wall street, how did it get to the

00:16:26.480 freaking woods of Maine? How did this thing affect me that I don't even buy into? I don't even pay

00:16:32.980 attention to has, has it seeped in. And I just understood that the world is, is much bigger than

00:16:39.840 I am. And, and, and the way the world works, I was totally naive to. And so I just wanted to

00:16:45.600 transcend, um, being affected by anything in the future. And I always have been outside of the box.

00:16:51.120 Let's just be honest. Like an ADHD kid, INFJ Myers-Briggs personality, uh, teachers didn't

00:16:57.940 like me. I didn't fit in the box. The doctors told my mom to medicate me to get me on drugs. She

00:17:01.880 didn't, she put me in sports. That's why I love sports. Um, and, and move on her part. Yeah. And

00:17:08.520 good move on her part. And, and so, you know, I just, I've never liked the box. Um, and so I'm

00:17:15.640 like, let me try to do something outside of the box. And so jujitsu was my passion. Jujitsu was

00:17:20.200 keeping me sane. Jujitsu was my therapy. Uh, and so making and reinventing the jujitsu gi was the

00:17:26.660 initial idea. But from day one, I knew the market was small. Like the market dynamics of jujitsu is like

00:17:36.820 whoever, whoever is going to enter jujitsu and step on the mat for the first time and

00:17:42.560 put that white belt on, which is the hardest belt to get is the white belt, right? To

00:17:47.120 step on for the first time and put that white belt on. That is actually harder than

00:17:51.000 getting your black belt because some people will wait forever and never do it. And some

00:17:56.160 people, like most people, like if you say there's 2 million jujitsu competitors worldwide, how

00:18:01.280 many people are in the world? There's 2 million people that actually are willing to step on

00:18:04.260 the mat. That's, that's hard. I don't know. I disagree with that a little bit. That hit

00:18:08.160 me with it. Like I will, because I think 20 years ago you might've been accurate. I think

00:18:13.320 today you're not because of how popular jujitsu and martial arts have become over the past

00:18:18.460 two decades. I don't think going to your first class is the hardest. I think sticking around

00:18:23.780 for 12 months is. Yeah, you could be right. It could be, it could be sticking around.

00:18:28.960 How many of your friends have talked about jujitsu or watch UFC? How many of them?

00:18:36.040 All of them. Literally all of them. How many of them train jujitsu regularly? Yeah. 10% or

00:18:41.860 less. 10% or less. They all love it. They all probably have this idea they would like to

00:18:47.180 try it, but you know, most of the time our ego gets in the way from even stepping on the

00:18:52.060 mat. Um, yeah, of course there there's a drop off rate. There's a drop off rate between stepping

00:18:58.900 on the mat and ending up with a black belt, six, eight, 10 years later for sure. But the

00:19:06.660 reason it's hardest to step on the mat is because tens of millions of people have thought about

00:19:12.160 it. And only a few actually are willing to take that step. Now staying with it, that's

00:19:19.800 a whole nother conversation. Um, that's why I say the hardest belt to get is a, is a white

00:19:24.620 belt. Um, once you, once you get a white belt, yeah, your next, your next hardest belt is a

00:19:31.140 black belt. That that's, that's, that's second. Cause you gotta be willing to take the first

00:19:35.120 step. But, um, but I, I never thought like this was just going to be a jujitsu company like origin.

00:19:44.920 Uh, and, and for me casting that long-term strategic vision early on was I want to do

00:19:50.640 way more than make ease, but let's become really great at making geese. Like we made our first pair

00:19:55.200 of boots in 2015. That was, that was like a couple of years after we built the factory. Uh,

00:20:01.380 didn't share with anybody. Actually, I don't have them anymore. You have them somewhere.

00:20:05.120 Oh yeah. I don't know where you put them, but you have them somewhere. Yeah. The ones

00:20:08.880 I made in maybe 2017 or whatever it was in the store. Yeah. Um, you know, so, uh, so the

00:20:16.920 market dynamics or jujitsu is very small. Uh, the market is very big and I don't, I'm not

00:20:23.140 really built to do like just flash in the pan type of stuff. So I always have this long-term

00:20:29.460 strategic vision for building a brand and, and building something that would like

00:20:34.980 transcend just jujitsu. But if we could use jujitsu as the foundation, as the roots of

00:20:41.520 the brand, it would be the coolest, toughest, most dynamic, most respected brand that's

00:20:48.080 ever existed. Because when you trace brand building back to the source, you know, like

00:20:53.740 take, take Oakley, you, you know, Jim Jannard started with a motorcycle grip right out of his

00:20:59.360 trunk of his car. You know, if you take Nike, they started with, that's the catalyst for

00:21:03.500 Oakley. I didn't know that that's the catalyst for Oakley. Yeah. Yeah. And then

00:21:06.800 they put silicone on the silicone on the back of goggles for dirt bikes, like to

00:21:11.080 hold them on the helmet. And that, that, that started to develop. I mean, same thing

00:21:15.260 with, um, I mean, uh, Under Armour was a tight fitting football shirt. Nick Nike was a

00:21:20.740 running shoe. Uh, Lulu was a yoga pants. Like you could go on Adidas, Adi Dazzler, but

00:21:26.740 they, they were, they were just making shoes, you know? Um, and they broke off into

00:21:31.620 Puma and Adidas. And so every, every brand has a, has a beginning. And I, and all the

00:21:36.720 brands I looked at, I was like, well, jujitsu is way cooler. It's like way cooler as a starting

00:21:43.540 point. Uh, and I love it. And so if we can prove out, we can make stuff again in America

00:21:48.860 and we make the toughest jujitsu geese, well, we can make anything out of, out of fabric and

00:21:56.120 we can make it the toughest. And so that's kind of where it started. But, um, yeah, I,

00:22:03.000 I just, uh, I have a desire to win and like go, go, go, go. I'm trying to balance that

00:22:10.020 out with my life right now. Uh, it's very hard. Uh, I think Pete, one of the things that

00:22:16.040 I really appreciate about you is cause well, I'll, I'll back up a little bit. One of the

00:22:20.360 common comments I get is, man, I just wish you had regular guys, quote unquote, regular

00:22:26.960 guys. And what people don't know about having quote unquote, regular guys on the podcast is

00:22:33.340 everybody from you to Jocko to Ben Shapiro and Dave Ramsey and Tim Tebow and all these other

00:22:40.860 guys I've had on the podcast. Everybody's a regular guy. I wish there was a way for men

00:22:48.080 to connect the idea between meteoric rise, like somebody like Jocko, for example, to

00:22:55.060 just a regular dude who at 17, 18 years old decided he wanted to join the Navy. Yeah. And

00:23:01.340 I don't think people connect with that, but I think you've done a tremendous job in being

00:23:05.560 able to say, Hey, we're just regular guys in the backwoods of Maine with some goals, some

00:23:10.640 dreams and desires. And I, sometimes I just wish they could see, cause I've lived a little

00:23:16.640 bit with you and the community over the past, you know, three, four years. I wish more people

00:23:23.100 could see that, that you are all just regular guys, but you're doing extraordinary things.

00:23:29.540 That's the power of purpose. And I think, I think the two things that are missing between,

00:23:35.360 you know, a regular person or a regular person that build something that seems irregular is,

00:23:44.980 is twofold. It's, it's, it's stepping into the unknown, which is uncomfortable. And it's having

00:23:53.520 a power of purpose onto why you're stepping into the unknown. And so, and so those two drivers,

00:23:59.960 a lot of times are missing and, or, and, or, or somehow somewhere at some time in somebody's life,

00:24:11.820 um, there was doubt cast that they can do more than they're doing or, or, or take a risk on

00:24:18.760 themselves more than they have. And I think that's the biggest, um, biggest lie that somehow has been

00:24:26.420 told, uh, in this society, because we're very, we're brought up in these educational systems very

00:24:31.660 much as, you know, I mean, agrarian society, 250 years ago, we didn't make shit until the

00:24:37.560 industrial revolution. Um, we needed a strong manufacturing middle-class. So our education

00:24:43.920 system was designed off of teaching these basic skills of reading, writing, math, so that then,

00:24:49.560 you know, our, our grandparents could ultimately go into the factories and work. And then the boomers

00:24:56.660 came along, our parents and, and kind of same thing, right? So we're, we're, we're trained to

00:25:01.700 plug into the machine. Americans are trained to plug into the machine. Now we're, we're trained with a

00:25:10.280 free mind, right? To think outside the box because that's where innovation comes from. And so

00:25:16.140 the roots of the roots of this, uh, American mindset, this free minded rebellious mindset,

00:25:23.540 um, it's, it's a really interesting balance of I'm free. I don't fit in the box. I can say what I

00:25:31.280 want. I got free speech. I can do what I want. I can do anything yet. Yet I do need to plug into this

00:25:37.620 machine because, uh, the American dollar is only valuable because the American worker and, and that's

00:25:44.420 it. Without the American worker, there is no value in our fiat currency. So, uh, so we're, we're trained

00:25:51.500 in our educational system, uh, in, in public school system to, to, um, to, to think a certain way about

00:26:00.880 life. You know, you go to school till you're, you're 20, you work till you're 60, you pay your dues,

00:26:07.380 you get your 401k and then you retire at 60. Uh, and for me, thank God, I just never bought into that

00:26:15.700 because I didn't plug in my, like, I just, I physically didn't plug in. And so when I didn't

00:26:21.620 plug in, like, like, you know, normal people would plug in and be very happy and content with that.

00:26:27.760 I was like, what the hell am I going to do? I'm going to have to design my own world. And so

00:26:33.180 the only option for me was to step into the unknown. And now having gone through that gun,

00:26:39.440 you know, like, um, seeing the wizard behind the curtain. Now I can only say after 25 years,

00:26:44.740 cause I've, I've everything I've ever eaten, I've killed since I've been 18 years old. Right. I

00:26:50.120 haven't had a job. Um, since I dropped out of college, I've been, I've been working for myself. And so

00:26:55.760 I can say that now with all the technology and all the knowledge and all the information,

00:27:02.280 and it's all free, someone can now a regular guy, regardless of who you are, how you were brought up,

00:27:11.040 uh, where you live, how much money you have, a regular guy can pull himself out of whatever

00:27:16.380 situation he's in on a, on a path of upward trajectory. Um, if he's has a power of purpose

00:27:23.140 and is willing to take a risk on himself, that's it. Uh, cause we are regular guys. You know,

00:27:28.960 that a hundred percent just dudes in the woods, neighbors, neighbors, friends, family. You know,

00:27:35.820 I, I, I, that's interesting. You said that because I was, I was thinking about it cause you do have

00:27:39.920 people that work with you who are plugged into the system, so to speak. But then you also have

00:27:47.620 a group of individuals who plugged into the system, but unplugged from the system who are still

00:27:54.900 connected with you. And I wrote this down as you were saying this, these individuals use the system,

00:28:00.820 did not allow the system to use them. Yeah. Would you agree or disagree? Um,

00:28:07.380 the, the, the exchange for me, I don't like to trade time for money. Um, I don't like to think of it

00:28:19.200 like that. Uh, although in a lot of cases that is the case. Um, I think I like to identify people who

00:28:29.240 actually are seeking more and give them upward trajectory, uh, and help them with whatever

00:28:37.440 they want to do to realize their vision and mission in life. A good example of this is Ty Nichols

00:28:43.700 who started, he was employee number eight. He was leaving notes on my door when he was

00:28:50.260 18 years old, wanting to get a meeting. I know less about him. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, I mean,

00:28:55.840 I, I've trained with this guy and I can tell just in training alone that this is a guy who's going

00:29:00.080 to kick ass in life. Yeah. And he's, he's still working for the company. He works for Jocko fuel

00:29:05.500 now. Um, but he came to me a couple of months ago and he's like, I have this passion to now take a

00:29:13.640 risk on myself. And I was like, tell me more. And he just had a baby and he's like 30 now,

00:29:18.020 whatever he's been with us for 10 years. Uh, I said, what do you want to do? He's like,

00:29:21.200 I want to buy this old golf course. And I was like, all right, what's stopping you? Oh, that's right.

00:29:25.480 And he's like, well, you know, I I'm working for Jocko fuel full time. And, but I, and I said,

00:29:31.080 Ty, like you've been with me forever. You know how I think, you know what I like, you know what

00:29:35.700 I'm going to say to you is like, take a risk on yourself, man. Like everything, everything will

00:29:41.000 get worked out. Like you got a support system, bro. The kid goes and buys this old abandoned golf

00:29:47.000 course. He starts an Instagram page and a Tik TOK page. He, his, his social media following is bigger

00:29:54.660 than origin and Jocko fuel combined already. It's insane. His engagement. It's huge. He's got hard

00:30:02.640 on the podcast. Let me have Ty on the second half of this podcast right here. Get, get Ty could pull

00:30:09.040 him up. I could tell him to drive over. So he's got like, he's got like 400, close to 400,000

00:30:15.660 Instagram followers already in, in six weeks, I don't know, three or 400,000 Tik TOK followers,

00:30:21.260 his YouTube channels blowing up and, and he's taken everything he's learned. And I'm just,

00:30:25.960 I'm coming back to what you said. I don't think any, I don't think, I don't think the company uses

00:30:32.880 people and I don't think that people use the company. I think, I think there's a relationship

00:30:37.860 and depending on the individual, that relationship can, can be defined, whatever their power of purpose

00:30:44.240 is. Ty's power of purpose has always been to go out on his own. It's always been to take a risk on

00:30:49.260 himself. He told me this day one, I want to eventually do something and build something,

00:30:55.340 but he took a decade and everything great in life takes 10 years. He took a decade to learn.

00:31:00.600 And now he's applying every, all of his learnings to this new venture. It's fairway fields on Instagram,

00:31:06.860 fairway fields on Tik TOK fairway fields. Then he's bringing this old abandoned golf course back to

00:31:12.140 life. He's just taking the origin model, you know, like bring it back to life, revitalize,

00:31:17.220 and applying it to golf. And he's having a lot of success. And so I know I answered your question

00:31:22.220 indirectly, but, but it depends on the individual. And yes, most people are designed and some people

00:31:30.680 are pulling themselves out of poverty and they just want opportunity, you know, like, especially in this

00:31:37.040 part of Maine. And so we provide that opportunity, but I tell people like my first four employees are

00:31:43.280 still my first four employees. Um, some of them have grown into managers of the company. Some of

00:31:48.540 them have gone into a position. They're like, I just love this being in this role because they spent 25

00:31:55.460 years working for shitty fucking companies and in shitty positions making $7 an hour. And all of a

00:32:01.800 sudden they're making real money and they have stability and their home life is better and everything.

00:32:06.560 So it really depends on the person. Man, I'm just going to step away from this conversation

00:32:12.040 briefly. Uh, you guys have heard me talk about divorce, not death. It's not just another course.

00:32:17.560 Uh, it's really a lifeline for men facing one of the hardest, if not the hardest battle of their life.

00:32:23.420 It can feel divorce can feel like the rug has just been ripped out from under you, but it doesn't

00:32:29.760 have to define you or destroy you. I've seen that happen to way too many men. Um, and that's why we put

00:32:34.380 this program together. It's to give you the tools and strategies and the mindset to turn your pain

00:32:39.500 into power, the loss that you have into new opportunities and the end of a marriage into

00:32:45.140 the beginning of a stronger, more purposeful life. So inside you'll learn how to navigate

00:32:50.420 the emotional chaos of divorce. You'll rebuild your foundation. Uh, you'll step into a new chapter

00:32:56.900 of your life and whether that's regaining control of your finances or becoming a rock solid father

00:33:03.000 or just grabbing hold of your confidence as a man, uh, this course, divorce, not death. It's

00:33:08.920 going to challenge you to rise up, not to retreat in the face of what's going on. Um, it's not just

00:33:14.240 about survival though. It's about transformation because divorce isn't the end. It's really your

00:33:19.820 chance to rebuild and to refine and ultimately come back stronger than ever. So check it out

00:33:24.260 guys. It's at divorce, not death.com divorce, not death.com. You can do that right after the

00:33:30.080 show. For now, I'll finish up with Pete. So for a young man who's listening to this podcast or

00:33:37.540 even a not so young man who's thinking to himself, I don't want to work for the man anymore.

00:33:43.200 Why did you hire Ty when he was 20 years old, beating down your door, didn't have any sort

00:33:49.420 of reputation or resume to judge him by? Why did you hire him? By the way, I'm going to reach

00:33:57.340 out to Ty and we're going to do a podcast together on the back of this one because I've

00:34:02.420 always really respected and appreciated what he brings to the table. Yeah. Yeah. He's, he's been

00:34:07.840 in conversations like real, real conversations that he's got so much locked in his head, private

00:34:14.580 conversations too, you know, cause he's carrying a camera around you around me or Jocko or whoever

00:34:19.520 else in the company. He's been in the room. Right. Yeah. He was in, he was in a room with us when we're

00:34:24.840 negotiating potentially the biggest deal. And we had to ask him like to go into the bedroom

00:34:29.660 and like close the door, you know, at one point, um, in, in, in Montana.

00:34:35.520 While you guys, while the adults were talking, is that what you're saying?

00:34:38.380 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to ask him about that.

00:34:41.600 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He can. Um, uh, but, um, but, but the, the kid was, he said, I'm willing

00:34:51.660 to do anything. And I said, okay, got it. Like a kid that is willing to do. Cause a lot of,

00:34:59.040 a lot of these kids, they think, they think that they're entitled to working a certain amount,

00:35:07.700 getting a certain amount of breaks, doing a certain thing. It's just as it was really,

00:35:12.500 and I'm not sure it's like that anymore, but the onset of technology and the internet and then

00:35:18.540 the influencer thing, there was just a lot of propaganda that anybody can like be an influencer

00:35:23.980 and, you know, just bust, you know, it's, and it's, it's not the case. And so Ty was like,

00:35:28.340 I'm willing to do anything. I just want to, I want to learn about business. And he's like, so

00:35:32.280 I'd found the most successful person I know in Farmington, Maine. Right. Um, which is not a big

00:35:38.300 pool to draw from. That's my point. Right. And I'm like, okay, fair enough. Um, and he's like,

00:35:44.020 I'll do whatever. I said, cool. I need some sewing machines moved. It's a two hour trip down.

00:35:47.800 You're going to have to make that trip every day for the next four weeks with my father-in-law,

00:35:52.180 Joe parody. And I need you to move this whole sewing factory to Farmington. And he's like, okay.

00:35:57.420 And he, Joe Sweeney parody. We call him. Yeah. Joe Sweeney. Um, yeah. And so, and so, uh,

00:36:04.640 I will give anyone a chance that's willing to do anything as long as they have no expectations.

00:36:09.740 It's when someone has expectations that it becomes a problem, uh, because then their ambition

00:36:16.140 becomes reckless ambition because it becomes about them and not the mission of the man,

00:36:21.760 which happens to be me. Right. So I need them bought into my mission and my long-term strategic

00:36:27.360 vision. Um, and people seemingly organize themselves into a hierarchical society, like in

00:36:33.480 society, they're going to organize themselves. So not everybody's going to be a, uh, take a risk.

00:36:38.560 And some people just want stability and some people just want to climb out of poverty and some

00:36:42.420 people just want to support their family. And some people just want a homestead and just have

00:36:46.040 enough, you know, and some people, some people just want, want a job, um, because they're trying

00:36:52.280 to change the cycle in their, in their family. Uh, so, um, so to each their own and we provide

00:36:59.080 opportunity, um, on all those levels, on all those levels. And of course there's been some deep

00:37:05.340 selects in the company over the years. Like, yeah, I go deep and I select this person out

00:37:09.840 because this, this one is a little bit different. Um, he's a little bit different. She's a little

00:37:15.140 bit different, a little more, I don't want to say more special, but, uh, but if, if they want,

00:37:21.720 they have, they have a little bit quicker opportunity. Uh, and we've had a few folks like that also.

00:37:28.120 So, um, there's a, have, are you familiar with James Altucher? Do you know, do you know

00:37:33.920 he wrote a book? Yeah. He wrote a book. Yeah. He had a real, I don't, I don't really follow

00:37:39.580 him much anymore, but he wrote a book called skip the line and, um, somebody like Ty skipped

00:37:46.040 the line. You know, he jumped in, you're, you're talking about people who are quote unquote

00:37:51.180 a little bit different. They skipped the line, meaning they didn't go through the traditional

00:37:56.760 routes and they didn't stand in line and wait for their turn. They said, no, I'm just going

00:38:00.700 to jump in line ahead and head at everybody else and get to it. When you say a little bit

00:38:07.340 different, what characteristics come to mind? Are there some themes? Are there some trends

00:38:14.000 that you look for when you're like, this person's a little different? Yeah. Yeah. Um, high emotional

00:38:20.640 intelligence or at least a willingness to listen more than talk, but a high, high emotional

00:38:25.500 intelligence is pretty important. Like you can see somebody who's really engaged in pulling

00:38:31.120 information in, right. Um, uh, resourcefulness, uh, resourcefulness. I describe as someone who

00:38:38.380 they're not giving you answers like, Oh, nobody's ever showed me that. I'm not sure how to do

00:38:43.940 that. Oh, I wasn't part of the conversation. Uh, I don't have that information. Um, and someone,

00:38:50.020 someone who is a deep select will naturally be like, Oh, let me find that for you. Oh,

00:38:56.460 I can figure that out. Uh, give me a day and I'll get it to you. Um, when you said deep select,

00:39:02.220 is that what you said? Yeah. Deep. What does that mean? It's just somebody in the organization

00:39:06.380 that let's say is in a, in a entry level and or junior position that you think can help lead the

00:39:13.500 company someday or be a big instrument in the company. I think about, I think about my role as

00:39:20.240 a founder CEO. Um, the way I explain it these days is, um, you know, uh, uh, I either explain it from

00:39:28.500 the, from the place of being an artist, physical artist, or a musician. I'm, I'm a conductor. Like

00:39:35.360 I don't get to pick up the paintbrushes, uh, or I don't get to play the instruments, but I know how

00:39:41.120 the instruments should be played and I can tell when they're out of tune and I can, I can bring

00:39:47.100 in the beat. I need the strings. I need the, you know, I like, I, I, I, my job is to like bring it

00:39:52.960 all in so that there's harmony. There's, and it's beautiful music and there's got to be tension on

00:39:58.460 the strings for the music to play. Um, and so that's kind of my role. And part of that is seeing

00:40:04.120 potential talent, right? Like my, like my whole job is talking to bankers and freaking lawyers and HR

00:40:10.980 and recruiting and getting talented people. Um, and so I'm also looking within the organization,

00:40:16.300 not just outside the organization. Uh, and so those deep selects, they could be entry-level junior, but

00:40:22.640 it's somebody I see something special in. I have a kid right now, Will Bates, who, um,

00:40:29.480 who's just, he's a genius kid. And, um, he, and the other resourcefulness is like, they're on

00:40:35.840 all the time. They're providing you with something you didn't even ask for because they're thinking

00:40:41.560 about it. They're not thinking about going and living for the weekends on the weekends. They're

00:40:46.260 thinking about, about the, not necessarily the company, but how they can improve the things

00:40:54.660 they're working on and bring value. And they do it wherever they are, not just origin, but wherever

00:40:59.940 they are. And they do it without being asked. And so it's knowing that the last thing is, is knowing

00:41:05.340 the next step. So it's emotional intelligence, it's resourcefulness, getting and finding the

00:41:12.820 answer. And then, and then I would say, I don't want to say the most important one, but equally

00:41:17.720 important is knowing the next step. So not being asked. And if I have somebody like that in the

00:41:23.720 organization, I pluck them, I pluck them out. And then I, I let them be part of like, uh, like Will,

00:41:31.720 this kid, Will, for instance, Will Bates, I bring him in the first time on our first Black Friday

00:41:37.880 meeting, he came into the war room with like all the, the drivers of the business. And I put him

00:41:43.340 there and I said, Will, I want you to feed me this data real time. I want you to give me the information

00:41:47.660 so we can make pivots. And I had designers in the war room and our marketing and creative team. And

00:41:52.380 we're, we're, we're trying to drive revenue, right? It's a sales day. We do a huge part of our

00:41:56.720 business in 24 hours. Um, you know, and, and you can see the light, you can see the light, like, okay,

00:42:02.820 they, they get, they get me, you know, like, and I'm not saying he's a company man. Um, what I'm

00:42:10.520 saying is, is, is a person like that is on fire. Right. And, and, and you got to make sure that wind is

00:42:19.700 blowing in the right direction. Cause if you try to blow against it, that you can catch fire and

00:42:25.720 that's a problem, right? So you want to harness that, you want to harness that fire. Um, and,

00:42:32.480 uh, with these deep, with these deep selects, it's real, real important.

00:42:36.800 That's interesting. I remember years ago, this was probably 15 years ago. I was doing some heating

00:42:42.680 in air when I got back from Iraq and the guy had me installing registers for airflow that night.

00:42:51.600 And I came the next day and I got there a little bit early and I got out of my truck and I started

00:42:56.160 hanging up these registers, which is what we were doing the night before.

00:43:00.300 And the boss rolls in, he's like, what are you doing? And I was like, well, I'm hanging these

00:43:05.740 registers. And he's like, why? Like, it's the next step. I don't, I thought I was in trouble.

00:43:10.800 I was like, I don't, this is what we were doing last night. I figured I would just go ahead and

00:43:15.660 get started and just like finish what I didn't get done last night. He's like, I've never had

00:43:20.200 anybody do that before. And he was so harsh about it. And I'm like, am I in trouble? Like, am I,

00:43:25.280 should I not have done this? Do I need to take these down? He's like, no, I'm just confused.

00:43:30.940 I'm like, I don't know what you mean. He's like, I've never had anybody do that before.

00:43:35.260 And it's really interesting as you talk about these deep selects, because you're talking about the

00:43:39.540 next step. It's sad in a way that it's so few and far between that somebody can just take

00:43:46.380 initiative. I think that's what you're talking about. It's just a little bit initiative that

00:43:51.100 sets you apart from the pack. Yep. And it's jujitsu knowing the next step, you know, like that's what

00:43:58.720 I love about jujitsu because it's just, it's so applicable. You can just peel it up and you can

00:44:03.280 stick it on life and you know, you're, you're, you're good to go. I mean, it's not the only,

00:44:07.900 only set of tools, but you know, they're pretty, they're pretty big tools for me.

00:44:12.760 But I would also say just in my limited experience, it's not only knowing the next step,

00:44:18.300 it's a willingness to take the risk towards the next step. Because if I go and train with you and

00:44:23.280 I'm like, all right, I got them. I'm two steps ahead of them. Pete's like, that's cute. I'm a dozen

00:44:29.640 steps ahead of you. So it's not just that you, you know what to do. It's that you're willing to take

00:44:35.520 a risk and push yourself a little further beyond what you're currently capable of.

00:44:41.380 Yeah. Yeah. And jujitsu teaches you to take those risks too, you know, and if you, if you take a risk

00:44:49.140 and you get caught, you get to tap and start over. And that's really, that's really nice too. So

00:44:55.320 you're teaching yourself, um, you're teaching yourself risk-taking and you're also teaching

00:45:00.500 yourself when to push, when to cut the angle, when to tap out, when to restart. So yeah.

00:45:08.600 Yeah. Some of us are more hardheaded than others and we don't tap out when we should, but, uh,

00:45:14.000 there's lessons to be learned in that. I'm still suffering from an injury from old Brian Little.

00:45:19.860 Well, it wasn't, I was going to, I was going to pin it on him. It wasn't on Brian. It was on me.

00:45:24.500 I was going to pin it on him. That was my fault. You remember that day.

00:45:27.660 The one I remember the most is just cause it was with Keegan. Keegan had thought he killed you one

00:45:34.420 day and he, he was very, he was very, he was like totally freaked out. You know? Um, I think you

00:45:42.460 passed. My son has been there too. I don't, I don't tap quick to neck chokes. I should definitely tap a

00:45:48.560 whole lot sooner, but I don't need to learn that lesson, man. We've all been choked to black.

00:45:54.880 Um, I want to go back to something you said you were talking about success and, um, I'd be really

00:46:04.960 curious as to how you define success, not only personally, but broadly.

00:46:11.640 Yeah. Jeez. That's a really good question. Cause I don't really know what success looks like.

00:46:16.580 Um, I think part of the problem with the word is it's doesn't, it's not stuck in a point

00:46:32.840 in time and it moves with you. That's, that's like my biggest issue with the word. If 20 year

00:46:41.860 old Pete saw what 30 year old Pete had, he would be like, holy shit. If I could look into the future,

00:46:48.440 20 year old Pete, I'd be like, bro, you have it all. You have everything. You have your little

00:46:53.800 timber frame home in the woods. You have two healthy kids, a beautiful wife. You have it. You have

00:47:00.240 everything. Right. And, um, um, I'm 40 year old Pete looking back on 30 year old Pete says you have

00:47:07.820 nothing. You have nothing. And that's the problem with the word is it, it just, it shifts every year,

00:47:16.600 uh, for me. And I think that's like the futile kind of fickle nature of the word that you can't pin

00:47:29.020 it down because human nature is to, is to go, go, go. And that's how us Americans, you know, we were

00:47:37.360 rebellious, go out. You can be anything. You can do anything. You can be everybody work hard. You know,

00:47:42.680 it just like these words resonate in my head. And so, um, and so now like I, I have everything I want.

00:47:52.620 So I, I feel like I'm successful, you know, like it's, it's great. It's, it's nice. I took my little

00:47:59.900 1200 square foot timber frame home last year and we expanded it into a way too big of a house for two

00:48:06.380 empty nesters. It's massive. It's beautiful by the way. It looks amazing. I don't know anything else

00:48:11.140 about it, but it looks amazing. Thank you. I mean, in, in, uh, in my wife and I never in our lives,

00:48:18.640 we've been together since we were 16 years old. Um, did we ever talk about success?

00:48:27.560 Just never a conversation, never had the conversation about like, I want to be the most

00:48:33.500 successful. I want to be like a millionaire. Like I never said those words. Uh,

00:48:39.620 the only thing she ever said to me is I, I, I want to, I want to, I want to home, um, near where I

00:48:48.040 grew up and, and healthy babies. And I want to be barefoot and pregnant. Like that was her desire

00:48:53.460 in life. And you guys just had an anniversary, right? Yeah. Yeah. We just had one in May 20,

00:49:00.120 what was it? 25 or 26. She's, I think I won't tell her that you don't know the answer to that

00:49:07.200 question. I do know. I do know. Um, I have to go look, but it's, yeah, we've been together for a

00:49:15.460 long time. We got married when we were young. You've been together for over a quarter of a

00:49:18.780 century. Let's just say it like that. Yeah. I mean, married and together since we were 16 and I'm 46.

00:49:23.580 So, so 30 years, 30 years we've been together. Um, and I don't think she could tell you what success

00:49:30.580 means either. I mean, we, you know, we've, we've had private jet, we've, you know, flown around the

00:49:38.600 country, like that whole thing. And now that's, that's done. And, you know, and it helped us build

00:49:43.340 the business and everything, but it was never a conversation. It was like one day we need to,

00:49:48.500 we need to expand the company. And the next day we need to find a way to get there. And then

00:49:52.400 now we have this now tool to expand the enterprise and, um, okay. And that tool's used and now it's gone.

00:49:58.920 And, you know, onto the next thing. And so, so are we successful now? Cause like, I don't,

00:50:04.820 I don't know. I mean, do you call successful, uh, having all your net net worth tied up in equity

00:50:12.640 and companies that you're responsible for building and can't fuck it up? You know what I mean? Or do

00:50:18.300 you consider successful having tons of free cashflow in your account? Like I, I, I really don't know.

00:50:24.300 You know, I, what I do know is, um, I think when, when we're able to retire her parents,

00:50:32.120 when I'm able to, um, to do some other things for some of my family, because I'm,

00:50:39.260 I feel solely responsible for breaking the cycle. Like I have, I carry the full burden of that for

00:50:46.240 my family of breaking the cycle. I know my siblings are looking at me, they have kids. And so having that

00:50:52.580 responsibility, I think when, when I truly can break the cycle for the entire family, then that's

00:51:00.240 probably success. As I see it.

00:51:03.260 You said, you said carry the burden for your family. Is that the right word? Do you feel like

00:51:09.420 it's a burden? Huge. Yeah. Explain. I mean, um, cause look, let me just give it a little context

00:51:20.020 if I can. When I hear burden, I don't, I don't think of anything positive. I think of responsibility,

00:51:25.440 obligation, but I don't think of anything sacrifice, but I don't think of any sort of

00:51:29.900 positive connotation with that. Um, responsibility, obligation, you know, it was Pete, since I was a

00:51:39.400 little kid, it was always like, Pete's going to take care of us. It started out as everybody knew.

00:51:44.860 Yeah. Hopefully. Yeah. So, so you, you hear that when you're, you know, 10 years old, you know,

00:51:52.640 single parent family, you know, going to rehab on the weekends, you're, you know, dad's into drugs and

00:51:57.740 alcohol. He's absent and, and, and then gone. And so mom, four kids in the woods, Maine on welfare,

00:52:04.400 like Pete's going to take care of us. So, you know, like that's that I've carried that my whole

00:52:09.700 life, but it's going to take care of us, but Pete doesn't fit into the box. And we have, you know,

00:52:15.560 kind of like, we have the secret, we know that. And that's why, you know, he, and so, you know,

00:52:20.600 I think, I think I really took that to heart. Um, you know, and, and my wife and I have talked about

00:52:26.720 this and we're kind of gut cracked open last year in a pretty major way. Um, and I, I feel solely

00:52:34.780 responsible. I pay for my, my nieces and nephews, educations, college educations. You know, I, I,

00:52:42.800 I make sure I'm helping with the down payments on the homes and stuff like that. And so I serve as the,

00:52:49.000 the patriarch since I was a little kid, I've served as the patriarch. So I'm putting that burden on a 12

00:52:55.080 year old kid that has to fucking win, right? You have to win. And you're like, you're like now 30

00:53:01.660 years into, into that. Um, and, and you can almost see it. And so now I define success as if I can just

00:53:09.780 get there. Um, because now that I know there's no limitations, I can do everything in my mind's eye

00:53:18.820 I've ever imagined that I've ever talked about that I've ever thought about. And I truly can change the

00:53:24.120 cycle, not just for my family, my, my direct kids, wife, but for everybody, for her family, for my

00:53:31.140 siblings, for everybody. Um, and there's strangers with your employees as well. Well, yeah, with that

00:53:37.800 too, for sure. I mean, that's a whole nother side of the coin. It's an opposite side of the coin.

00:53:42.460 Um, you know, uh, uh, one is definitely, one is definitely like, um, legacy and, and fixing

00:53:53.220 something that's broken, you know, hugely broken internally, family, familial. The other one is

00:53:59.860 externally community. And then the burden of fixing that broken thing, um, which I put on myself,

00:54:07.100 one burden I think was put on me and I accepted the challenge early on. The other burden I put on

00:54:14.560 myself because the power of purpose and the right thing at the right time for the right reasons.

00:54:20.380 And hopefully you get the right results. That's less burdensome though, right? I don't need to go

00:54:26.360 hard in the paint. I don't need to scale this thing as fast as humanly possible at all costs.

00:54:33.500 I don't need to do that. Uh, so I can take, I can take my time with that because I know that it's,

00:54:38.680 it's a hundred year plan to, to, to do this. Um, but it's, it's a lot in, in, in, uh, when you,

00:54:46.780 when, in hindsight, you know, I had the first time I thought about it all really was last year

00:54:52.140 coming together and, and, um, yeah, it's a burden. Hmm. Do you ever feel like you

00:55:02.780 could rewind to a more simple time? Maybe, maybe not be as successful or maybe not have your mind

00:55:12.600 works, work the way that it does. Uh, I've talked with a lot of very successful people who feel the

00:55:18.600 burden that I think are similar to what you're feeling. And, uh, it would be a whole lot easier

00:55:24.340 to be a, you know, chimpanzee in the Congo at times than it would be to run this business you're

00:55:31.060 trying to run on the burden of serving your family and colleagues and neighbors.

00:55:35.300 I regret nothing. And I would change nothing. I would change a damn thing. I wouldn't change

00:55:41.260 my experiences growing up. Nope. I would change nothing. Like I would change no experiences.

00:55:47.080 I would change nothing that's happened. All the, all the static, all the friction, all the challenges,

00:55:54.020 issues. Um, I am so thankful for all of that because it, it, uh, gave me purpose and direction and

00:56:02.940 clear, you know, those early calluses as a little kid, um, up into my teens. And then the experiences

00:56:11.300 through, through entrepreneurship and the tuition payments that were, that were made, I wouldn't

00:56:17.160 change a damn thing. We lost $6 million last year in origin. You know, I was running two companies.

00:56:21.720 I wouldn't change that either. I am so thankful that happened. Um, because if it didn't,

00:56:29.820 this year would have been worse. If I didn't stop and pause and put the brakes on and got the team

00:56:37.200 and recast the long-term strategic vision for the next 10 years, uh, and change the strategy,

00:56:43.520 like it would have been dangerous. Um, so I'm always, I'm always thankful for, for,

00:56:50.040 because like, you're not going to learn it in school, right? Like, you know, this, like,

00:56:53.740 you're not going to learn any of this shit in school. You learn it by doing. And, um,

00:56:59.360 tuition payments. Yeah. Tuition payments. And so I reflect, that's your phrase. I reflect on that

00:57:04.380 phrase just about every day, every day that I put my foot in my mouth, we'll spend way too much money

00:57:11.200 on something I shouldn't spend it on or do something dumb, which is daily at this point.

00:57:15.980 And I always think about tuition payments. Yeah, man, you gotta, you gotta pay that tuition. It's

00:57:21.140 just, you can't let it, you can't let those moments define you. Like, I don't, I don't say

00:57:28.540 like, Oh, I did that. I'm a shitty operator. I'm a shitty business owner. I think like, okay,

00:57:35.420 um, what have I learned and, and where do I go and what do I do? I'm still going to make decisions.

00:57:42.640 You know, I'm not going to be indecisive, still going to make decisions, still going to drive

00:57:45.820 forward. Um, so that's the job. It's life. Speaking of the job, you fired yourself earlier

00:57:55.720 this year. Is that in part to the $6 million loss? Is that something different? What does

00:58:02.040 that actually look like? Because this is your baby. Yeah. Literally your baby. This is your brainchild.

00:58:08.180 Yeah. And you're stepping into a new role and allowing other people to step into what

00:58:12.800 you used to do. Yeah. Um, you know, so, so, so running two brands origin and Jocko fuel

00:58:24.060 at the same time. Uh, I mean, it was a lot of fun. It fills my ADHD. I can go left brain,

00:58:32.920 right brain, one brand left brain, right brain, the other brand, and I can jump back and forth.

00:58:37.380 And, ah, chaos. I can organize the chaos. So nice. So freaking nice for someone, for

00:58:44.000 someone that is neurodivergent. They're calling it now. I don't know if you've heard that term

00:58:47.760 yet. Neurodivergent. I have. I, the way I look at it is it's a fidget spinner for adults.

00:58:53.320 Yes. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. So, um, I love chaos. I love, I love organizing chaos. I love creating

00:59:00.060 chaos. And, um, um, and last year I had to go focus on Jocko fuel for the first part of

00:59:07.940 the year. And I hired a team to run origin and I gave them the checkbook and I told them

00:59:12.500 what my, what I wanted them to do. And, um, you know, what I didn't, I failed to do is

00:59:17.940 I had, I failed to have them bring me the strategy and how we're going to get there.

00:59:23.020 And like, and, and it was really naive just because I, I brought a bunch of people on board

00:59:29.700 to think that they knew what to do because they've done it at other brands. And I learned

00:59:34.220 there's no silver bullet and nobody knows exactly what to do either. Like nobody's going to come

00:59:39.680 in and be a change agent for your company. Like that, that's a fact, Jack. Uh, so, um,

00:59:47.140 so about mid year, we weren't hitting plan deliveries were late. We had onboarded a bunch

00:59:54.440 of overflow factories. We had placed blanket POs for the whole year. We were, we were inventories

01:00:00.420 of over 14 million. And this is just origin. I'm not even talking about Jocko fuel, right?

01:00:04.800 Um, while I was focused on, on Jocko fuel stuff. Uh, and so I stepped back into the business

01:00:10.840 in July of last year and I S I stepped in shit. And, um, and the only way I could own that

01:00:19.800 was to look inside and say, you selfish bastard, you're trying to run both these companies and

01:00:30.220 you're giving neither of them the time they need, but it's fulfilling your dopamine levels

01:00:35.280 because you like the chaos. And yeah. And so, um, and so I called my partners and I was like,

01:00:42.820 you know, guys, I think I need to, I need to find a new CEO and replace myself. And I,

01:00:49.900 and I told my private equity partners and they weren't, they weren't super comfortable with it.

01:00:53.840 Right. I thought they weren't, they wanted to be running the company. Um, and I don't think my

01:01:00.240 other partners were super comfortable with it either. Uh, but you got one company, you, you've

01:01:05.400 got an enterprise doing, you know, $200 million, you know, and it's, it's massive and there's

01:01:10.280 hundreds of employees and you got this freaking wackadoo cowboy up in the woods of Maine running

01:01:15.960 these two things. And I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, do they have cowboys in Maine? I don't think

01:01:19.960 you have cowboys in Maine. No, rednecks. Um, you know, uh, and so my partners were super

01:01:26.200 supportive to Deco, Kip, Jocko, um, nervous, nervous for sure, but supportive because what

01:01:35.280 reason have I given them not to trust my instinct and my, I haven't, I mean, we did lose money

01:01:42.520 last year. Um, you know, but everyone's made a lot of money too. Right. So, so like,

01:01:49.960 Hey, like I, I, a hundred percent on me, the only way I see out of this actually is I have

01:01:56.200 to go focus on one thing. Um, and, and so, um, we put the recruit on and we found a guy

01:02:04.140 named Chuck Shoupine, who is the CEO of La Cologne coffee company and ended up bringing

01:02:08.580 him on board. And I, and I like to say, I fired myself. I cut myself loose. I did. Right.

01:02:14.200 But I mean, I, so I, I stepped, I'm on the board of directors, you know, still, I still

01:02:19.160 founder, still CEO. I mean, still founder, still whatever, like not CEO, but, um, but

01:02:26.120 you know, my voice is still behind the scenes in a very powerful way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

01:02:30.780 Yeah. So, um, and it's in better hands cause now he's full time plus on that thing, you

01:02:37.080 know, like the dude's full time plus like he, he, and he's from the beverage industry and

01:02:43.200 he grew a brand from whatever, 30 to 300 million. They sold it for a billion bucks, close to a billion,

01:02:48.180 just under. Um, so he, you know, he's got a skillset I don't have, like, I'm a, I'm a scrappy,

01:02:56.740 I'm a scrappy entrepreneur, like a now, now, now, like go, go, go, like take no fucking prisoners.

01:03:02.740 You know, like I want to, I want to do things. I want to test things. I want to create chaos. And

01:03:06.360 he's, he's like organized and any systems and processes and, and we're a stage three business

01:03:14.000 jock of fuel. And so I had to hand it off to a stage three mind. Cause my mind is a stage one

01:03:18.560 and two mind. I don't have a stage three mind. I need, I need that help. I don't have that skill

01:03:23.800 set. And, um, and I, and I, I don't think I will ever have that skill set cause God didn't make me

01:03:29.960 that way. He made me as an ADHD kid who's, who needs to cast the vision, um, and gave me the skills

01:03:38.640 to put the pieces together to create, uh, to create, create the sculpture, to create the

01:03:44.240 machine, um, of, of business. And, and that takes smarter, smarter people than I am. So

01:03:50.680 you, it's, it's interesting that you use the word scrappy. You are my third podcast this week

01:03:58.060 that has specifically used that word scrappy. Really? Dead serious. I don't know. It resonates

01:04:07.500 with me. It speaks to me. It's like, we need, and, and, and I was talking to one of my good

01:04:13.100 friends and cohost on the ask me anything. And, and I said, we need more Nate Diaz's of the world.

01:04:18.360 The guy who will take the fight with a week notice. He'll go in there and he'll get his ass kicked for

01:04:23.680 one or two rounds and he'll just keep charging. And then he'll be busted up, bloodied face,

01:04:31.580 beat up body. And then he'll flip you off as he's beating you down for the next two to three rounds.

01:04:36.660 Yeah. That's scrappiness. I like that, man. It resonates with me. And apparently it resonates

01:04:41.240 with the guests I'm having on. Yeah, no, definitely. Yeah, no, it's, I think, um,

01:04:47.520 I think tactically scrappy is very important, not recklessly scrappy because everybody,

01:04:54.440 everybody gets, let's be smart about it. Not stupid, right? Yeah. You might. Yeah, exactly.

01:05:00.660 So, all right. So you talked about being a stage one, stage two guy, you're moving into stage three with

01:05:06.040 the business is as a stage one slash two guy, what is next for you? Um, that's a good question. Um,

01:05:16.680 I'm really, I really found a passion again, uh, for purpose within origin. Uh, last year was the

01:05:40.600 first year I ever worked in my life. It's the hardest year I've had. And, and you think like,

01:05:46.440 well, Pete, and I say this to myself, like, but you had to remortgage your house and you would go

01:05:52.580 weeks, like a week without a single order and your factory, you built in the mud and there's like a

01:06:00.040 foot of mud outside in, in, you're running off of a generator. Like, wasn't that worse? No,

01:06:06.360 no, no, it wasn't. Um, last year was very hard because

01:06:13.720 I couldn't, I couldn't use my tools to, to drive behavior and drive success. I couldn't deploy them

01:06:28.360 right. It's like being stuck in Mount for a year and you can't get out, you know, like I just,

01:06:36.340 just felt like I was mounted. Bad dream, man. Yeah. It was in my neck was getting choked and I

01:06:42.180 couldn't, I couldn't get out. And, um, and so I obviously, I obviously eventually had to tap.

01:06:52.200 Right. And, and I tapped out, um, met my capacity. I admitted my faults. I fired myself

01:06:58.880 and then I got to restart and, and, and, and it's a new match and jujitsu and jujitsu teaches you like

01:07:07.400 in your mind, you have to restart, restart the match, restart the game. And so that's what I did.

01:07:14.920 I tapped out and I restarted. Um, and, and gosh, I've had a lot of fun. We had the course, correct.

01:07:22.660 We had the course, correct, uh, origin cast a long term, new long-term strategic vision,

01:07:28.700 had a lot of relationships that got strained. I was just honest with everybody inside the company

01:07:34.360 and outside the company. You know, we like, we had like never lost money. We'd always made money

01:07:39.880 for years and years and years. And we, we bought factories out of pocket. We spent millions of

01:07:44.740 dollars on this, you know, half a million dollars making our first pair of boots. We would just take

01:07:49.480 all that profit and we just put it back into the system. Um, and it was always there. And I think

01:07:56.140 I got complacent that we could always just put cash back in and then boom, you lose, not paper loss,

01:08:02.260 you know, truly lose $6 million. Um, and, and, uh, you know, it stung, it stung, I would say,

01:08:12.020 did it hurt my ego? Um, I don't think it really hurt my ego.

01:08:18.360 Uh, but, but it, but it was time to, it was time to self-reflect. And so, um, and so turning this

01:08:29.240 new long-term strategic vision on for origin, going diving back into the product and the product

01:08:35.580 roadmap and the planning, uh, I'm back in what I love. I love shit. I love this shit. I'm passionate

01:08:44.180 about this shit. And at the same time on Jocko fuel behind the scenes, kind of working on the

01:08:49.800 same thing with like the brand, you know, the direction of the brand and the packaging and,

01:08:55.480 um, and the brand voice, like that's been a lot of fun and not managing necessarily like the

01:09:03.680 executive team or the people. Um, yeah, yeah, we're going to get into that, but you're a stage

01:09:10.300 three business, right? Jocko fuel is a stage three business and it just takes a different mind than

01:09:15.580 the mind I have. Uh, uh, so, so anyways, flipped it on its head, man.

01:09:25.640 I, when you were talking about ego, I was like, man, you've been in jujitsu for 20 years. You have

01:09:31.000 zero ego left. Yeah. You get strangled and choked and everything else. Like there's no ego left

01:09:38.640 whatsoever. Um, you also talked about restarting. Yeah. I think what a lot of people overlook is

01:09:46.980 that, and I've had to restart Pete. We're friends. You've seen me in the highest of highs and the

01:09:51.900 lowest of lows. I have. Yes. When we restart, we're actually better than that because we're

01:09:58.640 restarting with new knowledge we didn't have before. Exactly. And so you don't start from zero.

01:10:04.380 You start actually 20, 30, 40, 50 yards ahead of everybody else who might actually truly just be

01:10:11.020 starting. Yeah. Nothing replaces experiential knowledge. You know, you can, you can practice

01:10:18.680 things in theory and you can avoid tuition payments. And there's a lot of good books out there. I'm not

01:10:25.040 a big reader. You know, I, I listen to things, but I'm very, I'm very bullish on, on, um, oral history

01:10:33.160 and, and gaining knowledge that way. Um, I think, I think you're a few, a fool. If, if you run your

01:10:43.900 whole life only on experiential knowledge, right. And don't get outside input or influence, um, or

01:10:51.480 advisement, then, then you're a fool. Cause that means you're closed minded. But if you're open-minded

01:10:55.920 and you're listening and you're, um, distilling information and you're getting that experiential

01:11:01.860 knowledge, you will get so much further ahead. And there has to be, there has to be friction in life

01:11:09.020 to truly realize and self-actualize. Um, and I think, I think we're all in a way trying to

01:11:16.760 self-actualize, you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, um, love and belonging community and food

01:11:22.580 shelter, love and belonging community, et cetera, et cetera. Until you're like, I've, I've kind of

01:11:26.580 like, Oh, I've, I've, I've arrived at whatever success looks like and success moves. It's a thief

01:11:34.140 in the night. It truly, it truly moves on you. Um, so, um, yeah, I don't, I don't know. No one,

01:11:45.640 no one has it figured out. The smartest people listen to Jordan Peterson or whoever you're listening

01:11:51.500 to, no, they don't have it figured out. They're dealing with the same shit you're dealing with.

01:11:56.660 I'm telling you right now. I mean, we've seen guys like Jordan Peterson go through very public

01:12:01.280 downfalls and struggles and emotional turmoil. We've seen this. Yes. Everybody, everybody,

01:12:08.500 everybody does. Everybody, everybody's fighting some type of war. Um, yeah,

01:12:16.240 but well, Pete, man, I got to tell you, I appreciate our friendship. Um, like I said,

01:12:23.780 you see me in some really, really dark times. I'm not in those dark times now. I'm sure in the future,

01:12:29.880 I will experience some of those dark times in different ways. Um, but I really appreciate your

01:12:35.740 steadfastness in being a, not only a resource that I can look to, but also a friend. And I really like

01:12:44.280 this conversation because I've always felt this way. You don't seem like an untouchable. And I say

01:12:52.100 that with a lot of gratitude for what you've given me in my life. Um, I think a lot of these people

01:12:59.740 like a Jordan Peterson, for example, seem a little bit like an untouchable. You're somebody who,

01:13:05.000 who I have personally got down in the trenches with and who I think when other men listen to this

01:13:10.940 podcast, they'll feel that. And I hope it will inspire them to do big and brave and bold and

01:13:16.900 audacious things in their lives. So I appreciate you, man. I really do. I appreciate you. Thanks

01:13:21.360 for having me on as a, as a good conversation. I shared some things that I haven't or normally

01:13:27.100 wouldn't. So just cause we're friends and I just, you know, just want to be transparent with you.

01:13:31.740 So, yeah, you started a new YouTube channel. Um, in addition to that, where else can the guys go

01:13:38.320 connect with you? Cause I want to direct them in a place where I know they're going to get a lot of

01:13:42.400 valuable time tested wisdom. Yeah. So, um, I guess I'll start with a YouTube channel. Uh,

01:13:49.480 I started it a month and a half ago. I'd been thinking about it for three, four years,

01:13:54.020 ever since I stopped my podcast. And I was like, how can I, what can I do? And so I ended up,

01:13:59.200 you know, writing a, I've got 30,000 words of a book started and I haven't finished it. And then

01:14:04.540 finally I'm, I'm just like, I just got to do this YouTube channel because I am an ADHD kid and I can

01:14:10.160 just free associate in the stream of consciousness. And so, you know, um, and so maybe a month and a

01:14:16.240 half ago, I started this channel and it's just youtube.com slash Pete Roberts. Uh, and it's

01:14:23.460 everything I have to give the world, um, unfiltered, unscripted. Um, sometimes in the morning,

01:14:32.620 you know, when I'm going to get a coffee, very lucid minded kind of free association,

01:14:38.280 um, merit, much like the conversation on this podcast, just real. And, and so everything from

01:14:45.260 leadership to strategy, business, life, um, parenting, uh, and the things I'm also thinking

01:14:51.960 about, you know, like that challenge the norm, um, that really challenged the norm things I can't share

01:15:00.040 on origin. Um, you know, and I can be a little bit more personal about, so, um, that's my YouTube

01:15:07.240 channel. And then, um, and then originusa.com is where everything comes to life through product

01:15:15.860 and product is a manifestation of, of the power of purpose and the brand. And, uh, and, and it comes

01:15:24.280 alive for the product. So if you're, if you like what we're doing, you know, with origin, if you appreciate

01:15:29.100 that made in America without compromise, dirt to shirt, field to fabric, fiber to finish, like,

01:15:33.600 you know, built by freedom, all that shit. Um, you know, I would say go to originusa.com and,

01:15:39.660 and shop. And, uh, we appreciate your support. Um, we have real people making real shit here in the

01:15:45.860 United States and help this business grow and thrive for the next hundred years, 500 years,

01:15:50.480 thousand years. And I would also, you know, call it jocko fuel. Like if you're on a, you know,

01:15:55.600 I think health and wellness is the opium of the day. Um, not to quote Karl Marx by any means,

01:16:00.360 but like easy now, easy now. Well, we could get into that whole communism thing. I actually talk

01:16:06.820 about it on my, uh, on my YouTube channel, the YouTube channel. Yeah. Yeah. I talked about

01:16:11.440 communism and, and, um, how we funded it. And that's a whole nother, that's a whole nother

01:16:16.320 conversation. Um, but health and wellness is important. And, and, and that's why we built jocko fuel

01:16:23.220 to, to help people realize that and give them a source they can trust. And, um, and so that's,

01:16:29.440 that's what I'm doing. Uh, and, um, trying to make myself available, um, not just hiding out in the

01:16:37.020 woods up here in Maine, but sharing, sharing 25 years of, of learnings. So. Awesome. Well, I will say

01:16:44.260 this if on the jocko fuel side, if you're not, uh, taking the jocko fuel protein or the joint warfare on

01:16:52.580 the jocko fuel side and on the origin side, if you don't have, there you go. If you don't have

01:16:58.820 a pair of, uh, the Delta jeans or the mock to mock toe origin boots, you're not a man. I people hate

01:17:06.440 when I say that I say it just to bother people at this point, but I'm telling you, well, I mean,

01:17:11.280 technically you're just, you're supporting communism and you're supporting. There you go. I like that

01:17:16.780 better. If you are wearing anything that says made in China, then you legit have, are supporting 90

01:17:24.240 slaves. Like that is the math. Um, Whoa, really bad. Yeah. Just one pair of jeans. Well, you're

01:17:30.640 that's really, if you're holding an iPhone and wearing sneakers, head to toe, you're

01:17:35.000 imported. It's supporting 90. I'm laughing, but I don't doubt that that's actually true. Just

01:17:39.820 support America. You know, go get yourself some Delta jeans, get some mock, mock toe origin

01:17:44.860 boots, use the joint warfare at 44 years old. Pete, that joint warfare comes in handy

01:17:50.580 more and more. Um, so I'm, I'm a believer. I'm a pick on it. Pete, love you, brother.

01:17:58.280 Appreciate you joining me today. Um, I appreciate our friendship and I know this is going to serve

01:18:02.220 a lot of guys. Thanks for joining me. Awesome. Appreciate it. Thank you for having me on.

01:18:07.060 There you go, guys. The one and only Pete Roberts. He's been on the podcast a handful of times

01:18:11.200 now. And you know why? Because he has got so much insight to share and he's always honest about

01:18:17.360 the things that he does well and the things that he needs improvement on. And that's good to know

01:18:21.840 with somebody who's as successful as Pete is. It's good to know that these guys aren't perfect.

01:18:27.960 They're not Superman. They're not, they don't get everything right. And they have their own

01:18:31.980 battles and struggles. I just think that a lot of these guys, including Pete that we've had on the

01:18:36.240 podcast, have a great ability to pivot, to adjust, to make change and to get back on and get back

01:18:44.180 after it. So make sure you give Pete a follow with his new YouTube channel. Also, uh, make sure you

01:18:50.580 check out origin. If you want some good jeans, uh, some good boots, or if you're in jujitsu and you

01:18:56.440 need a good gi, look no further than origin. And if you want some supplements I use personally,

01:19:01.120 Jocko fuel supplements, I use their protein, I use their creatine, and I use a supplement that helps

01:19:07.180 with my aging and aching joints called joint warfare. Check it out. That's Jocko fuel and

01:19:12.760 originusa.com. Outside of that guys, check out divorce, not death, but I'm glad you're here. Part

01:19:18.420 of the order. We need to continue to grow this movement because this will change not only our own

01:19:23.120 lives and our family's lives, but it'll change the world. And I need your help in doing that.

01:19:26.760 Go to orderband.com to learn more. All right, guys, we'll be back tomorrow. Until then,

01:19:30.740 go out there, take action and become the man you are meant to be.

01:19:37.360 Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take charge of your

01:19:41.640 life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.

Order of Man - August 19, 2025

PETE ROBERTS ｜ Why Scrappiness Could Be Your Greatest Asset

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