Order of Man - Prioritizing Masculinity, Leading Your Leaders, and Boundaries vs. Walls

00:00:00.000 And then there's self accountability, which is if I don't even care if what he goes to the gym or

00:00:04.540 not, I'm going to be there. And if he's there, great. And if he's not, I don't care. I'm going

00:00:08.360 to do my workout all the same, just as hard, just as much if he was or was not looking. And that to

00:00:13.400 me is character. It's accountability for sure, but it's character. What do you do when no one

00:00:19.240 is watching? Would you make the same decisions today in every instance, if nobody ever knew

00:00:25.000 what you did? If it's yes, then I think you're in alignment with your character. You have

00:00:30.340 integrity. And if it's no, then you have some issues to work out.

00:00:34.220 You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly charge

00:00:39.220 your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time you are

00:00:44.900 not easily deterred or defeated, rugged, resilient, strong. This is your life. This is who you are.

00:00:51.920 This is who you will become at the end of the day. And after all is said and done,

00:00:57.000 you can call yourself a man.

00:01:01.180 Kip, what's up, man? Great to see you this Monday. A little bit of a little bit of confusion

00:01:05.820 on my end as to whether or not I was going to be here. But then I started thinking, I'm

00:01:08.700 like, I can't. Kip's just going to mess this whole thing up if I let him do it alone.

00:01:13.140 So yeah, I better I better get on the show and make it happen. No, I actually just enjoy

00:01:18.280 our conversations. That's really what it comes down to. Yeah. Well, and there's a level of

00:01:23.180 pressure that goes down when we get to have a conversation versus solo, right? There's a

00:01:27.640 little bit of like, okay, solo, like, you know, don't sound like a moron. But now I don't mind

00:01:32.480 sounding like a moron because you're here to make us sound half intelligent, at least.

00:01:36.480 Yeah. Or at least just calling you a moron. And for whatever reason, when a friend says it,

00:01:40.480 it's way better than, you know, somebody else calls it to you or you call yourself a moron.

00:01:45.360 So we preemptively give ourselves labels. So that way it's a, it's a little bit easier to take.

00:01:50.960 Yeah, exactly. Actually, that leads into a good point. I did a podcast on Friday. I'm not sure

00:01:56.120 if you listened to it, but I think I titled it, uh, the stories we tell ourselves define us as men.

00:02:00.980 Yeah. And I took a lot from your playbook on that one. Cause you've talked a lot about the stories

00:02:05.460 and the narratives that we craft around the circumstances that we're part of. If you guys

00:02:10.100 haven't listened to that one, it might be, it might very well be one of the most important

00:02:15.340 topics I've covered on a Friday field notes. Hmm. Yeah. So go listen. I liked it. It was good

00:02:21.160 stuff. It was good stuff. And you had an M 42 adventures, uh, pistol class this past weekend as

00:02:27.880 well. We did. Yeah. We did a level two pistol course. A good friend of ours, Chase C Miller,

00:02:32.980 uh, is our firearms instructor. He's a range safety officer out here, uh, at, um, the, I can't even

00:02:40.820 think of, think of the place, but it's, it's here in Southern Utah. Uh, and yeah, we had a great course.

00:02:46.680 I probably fired hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of rounds over the weekend. And I think

00:02:53.880 what stood out to me more than anything is all of my groups started to get tighter. I don't really

00:02:58.380 spend a whole lot of time training with my pistol. So, so the fact that I'm doing it more

00:03:02.880 is a good thing, but the groups are getting tighter and just the repetition just over and

00:03:08.100 over and over again, doing the same thing. And this one, we worked on drawing from a holster

00:03:12.900 and just the movement of drawing. And just, we started slow and gradually picked up and

00:03:19.260 then did some drills. It was fun. We had a good time. That's cool. Any key technique that

00:03:24.500 you learned that you didn't know before it was just reps mostly. Yeah. The technique I learned

00:03:31.660 more than anything was in an encounter, I'm going to hide behind my girlfriend. Cause she

00:03:35.580 is an incredible shot. Oh my gosh. I was standing, I was standing right next to her. We had teams

00:03:43.420 of, of two to three people at a, at a, at a table shooting and we were all shooting at

00:03:46.960 the same time, but I was standing right next to her and her group was within probably like

00:03:53.340 a sand dollar and she shot, I'm not kidding, hundreds of rounds. And all of them were within

00:03:59.060 a sand dollar. Mine are like, uh, but not like a dinner plate, but, but, but like a buffet platter.

00:04:05.740 Yeah.

00:04:09.860 That's funny.

00:04:10.600 So she's amazing. No, but the biggest thing for me is, and I know this about myself, especially

00:04:15.540 because of hunting, I get excited and my adrenaline gets going. And so he was giving me some instruction

00:04:22.000 and he says, there's a lot of shaking. And he says, that's probably just your adrenaline

00:04:26.140 pumping. And he also said, that's why a lot of women are actually better shooters than men

00:04:31.700 because they don't have the same level of pressure they put on themselves as men do to perform.

00:04:37.660 Between that and then just gripping the firearm tighter form was okay, but just gripping it tighter

00:04:42.580 so it doesn't move. And then just going through the rounds so that adrenaline and excitement

00:04:47.580 kicks in less will really help. And it, and it did seem to help as the, as the day progressed.

00:04:53.300 I love it. I love it, man.

00:04:55.040 Yeah. Yeah. It's a good time. So it's crazy, but you know, with that, and then on top of, um,

00:05:01.660 I was going to say, I don't know why I did this. I do know why I did it, but then I'm like second

00:05:06.440 guessing myself. I volunteered to help with the, uh, merchandise for my oldest son's lacrosse team

00:05:13.220 and sponsorships. Like why did I, and I can't dabble in anything. I've just refused to do it.

00:05:20.720 So when I go in, I go all in. We talked to Josh Wellman. He did, he does our website and some other

00:05:25.660 design work for us. I messaged him. I'm like, Hey, I want to build a website for the team and this

00:05:29.920 and that. I'm like, what are you doing? I cannot dabble. So now I'm overwhelmed. And then coach is

00:05:36.020 like, Hey, we need these jerseys by Wednesday. I'm like, it's Friday. Like, how do you want me to get

00:05:42.440 those by Wednesday? So it's, it's going to be, uh, exciting. Yeah. Well, I'm sure they'll appreciate

00:05:48.740 your efforts regardless. They better. We'll see. They better. Yeah, exactly. I'm never doing it

00:05:55.000 again. That's, uh, well, should we talk about headlines? I have one. Yeah. Um, I saw a video.

00:06:02.720 I'm sure you've seen it. Most, most people at this point probably have, it went viral. Uh, this female

00:06:07.980 police officer, uh, was assisting another male police officer during what I imagined

00:06:14.400 was a pretty routine traffic stop, but they got the gentleman out and the gentleman in

00:06:19.140 the car seemed to be complying. Like he was being, you know, perfectly compliant and he

00:06:23.400 had a gun on his hip. And I think it was an inside the waistband gun or I don't know for

00:06:27.840 sure, but the male officer was telling him to get out of the car, turn around. And then

00:06:32.480 the female officer went to grab the gun and she grabbed it and pulled it out of the holster

00:06:38.200 and shot the suspect in the leg with his own gun. You could tell with his own gun and you

00:06:45.740 could tell the guy that she's freaking out. And the police officer was like, put the gun

00:06:49.460 down, just put the gun down. So she just sets the gun on the ground and like walks out, wanders

00:06:54.820 off, Mosey's off. And I mean, this is just indicative of the DEI stuff. And, and here's

00:07:03.100 what I'm going to say. I'm not going to say, no, I might actually say it. Women don't belong

00:07:09.020 in law enforcement, at least out in the field. They just don't. And I know that's going to

00:07:16.640 get a lot of flack. I know I'm going to get a lot of pushback on that, but the reality

00:07:20.200 is men are stronger, they're bigger, they're more intimidating, and they just are going

00:07:26.300 to do a better job generally in the field than women are. But when you start getting

00:07:30.840 into this DEI nonsense and hiring based on quotas and we need, need so many women and

00:07:36.740 so many black people and so many transgenders and so many homosexuals and like all this kind

00:07:41.500 of stuff, you automatically are diminishing the quality. Now this could have been a bad day

00:07:46.840 for this female. In fact, you know what? A man could have done it just as easily and

00:07:51.040 probably has. So that's not the issue. The issue is when you have to hire for diversity,

00:07:59.300 for immutable characteristics, you automatically diminish the quality of the work, the performance,

00:08:08.260 the standard. So I think it's a really good thing on top of others that Trump has come in

00:08:14.100 and eliminated a lot of the DEI stuff within government institutions because it just creates

00:08:20.080 horrible working environments at lower standards. You know, you see the same thing in the military

00:08:24.900 and Pete Hegseth was obviously confirmed over the weekend or end of last week. So there's going to be

00:08:31.600 a lot of changes that I think are for the better. I did hear one guy say, or a female woman say,

00:08:39.480 I guess I don't know if it's a woman or man, but it was some feedback that they got on one of

00:08:43.420 Matt Walsh's posts about this. And they had said that females are better because they can diffuse

00:08:49.640 situations more easily. And I'm thinking in a police setting, if I saw, if I was a criminal,

00:08:58.120 if I saw a man like Jay, Jay Giordulo, who's what? Six, three, 230 pounds, maybe, you know,

00:09:07.600 maybe even bigger than that. And if I saw him and then I saw a five, six, five, seven female that

00:09:15.720 weighed, you know, a buck 40, buck 30, which is going to deter me more. Of course, I'm not going

00:09:22.900 to mess with Jay, but I might be tempted to mess with a female officer. So let's get the feelings

00:09:28.220 out of it. It doesn't mean women are inferior or less than, or any of that sort of thing. It just means

00:09:34.160 that men are better at certain things generally, and women are better at other things generally.

00:09:40.320 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the minute you start, anytime you're hiring on something other than

00:09:46.500 capability, you're, you're, you're going to diminish the, the quality of, of what's occurring,

00:09:52.560 right? Like period. And then this goes for many, many scenarios. Like I'm sure we see this where I

00:09:58.260 see this all the time in corporate America, where it's like, well, we need to butt in the seat really

00:10:02.480 fast because we need a resource. What's the price of hiring the wrong person? There's, there's a price

00:10:10.340 to that. And if quality is diminished and you get the wrong person on the team that matters and you're

00:10:17.500 almost better off not doing the work and losing the project. Yeah. Yeah. But, but we compromise way

00:10:24.700 too often in regards to getting the right people in the seat. And, and it's not fair for multiple

00:10:29.220 people. It's not fair for, in this example, it's not fair for this woman. Let's assume that she's

00:10:35.260 just kind of incompetent across the board. It's not fair to her. She's stuck in this position that

00:10:40.780 she doesn't, she's not going to have success. She's not qualified to do. Yeah. Yeah. She's not

00:10:44.680 qualified, qualified to do. She's walking around probably hiding her incompetence all the time.

00:10:50.760 I mean, that's not a good place to be for anybody. Let alone now she's a, she's a national

00:10:57.240 embarrassment now. I mean, think about the, the tens of millions of people who have seen that video

00:11:02.580 and now she's, I mean, I, I actually do in a lot of ways feel bad for her. She was teed up for

00:11:08.640 failure and that's horrible. Yeah. Yeah. I saw that too. And I was like, Oh my gosh. I just laughed

00:11:16.860 cause I'm like, you shot him with his own gun. Oh, there's some, it's just kind of funny, but

00:11:23.840 it's funny. It's, I mean, it's funny. It is funny, but it's also just horrible. Yeah. Poor guy,

00:11:29.640 poor other police officers that are trying to do their job and they have to babysit their little

00:11:34.440 sister while they're doing it. It's like, good gosh. You know, you did say something that I want

00:11:39.420 to call out a little bit. You said it's not fair. I don't care if it's fair or not. Yeah. That is no

00:11:45.540 relevancy in whether or not we should or shouldn't do something. Fair means nothing to me. Yeah.

00:11:52.360 You like the only, the only reason fair makes sense is if you have a level playing field, right? Like

00:11:57.340 you can't have different playing fields. So it's actually unfair to have, for example, female

00:12:02.720 police officers that don't have to complete the same physical requirements that a man does.

00:12:07.520 That is unfair. But as far as it's not fair that women can't, I don't care about any of that.

00:12:13.960 What I care about is efficacy of the work and can the people that we're hiring do the job

00:12:19.360 we're hiring them to do? I'm just, I'm trying to point out that you're not doing any favors

00:12:25.040 for the individual that you hire. That's true. That's incompetent. You're making it harder for

00:12:32.080 them as well. Yeah. I do get tired of like, oh, this is the first person to break the whatever

00:12:39.380 perceived ceiling. It's like, I don't care about that. Is that person the most qualified? If she's

00:12:46.940 a, a black transgender non-binary lesbian and she happens to do something great, I don't care about

00:12:53.660 some weird glass ceiling. I care about that's the best qualified person. That's it. Period.

00:13:00.460 Yeah. Well, and, and you and I, and most people for that matter, and most people should have this

00:13:06.060 attitude in my opinion. Do you want to be breaking records? Cause it was handed to you. Yeah. Yeah.

00:13:13.520 Like what an insult. Yeah. What an insult. Anybody that is getting a handout that this is, this is the

00:13:21.600 attitude that should, that should be the case. In my opinion, anybody that's getting a handout, you,

00:13:26.500 you should be pissed off that it's actually not on your merit that you're actually getting the

00:13:34.260 promotion or getting the job. But do you think these people know they're getting handouts or do

00:13:39.940 they, are they so lost, so lacking in situational awareness that they think, oh no, I actually am the

00:13:48.120 most qualified person. I mean, cause Kamala Harris probably believes she's the most qualified person

00:13:54.320 for the job and she's actually probably one of the least qualified. I don't, I don't think she

00:13:58.660 thinks that. Yeah. I think she knows she's not, but she thinks other people think she is. So she

00:14:05.900 keeps up the charade. Oh, I don't know. I don't know if I believe you on that. No, you're not self

00:14:11.200 aware enough that she actually, I don't think, I don't think I can, I can see your argument. You know,

00:14:16.580 you can make a case for that argument, but I think she lacks some, I think she's so arrogant

00:14:20.880 that she believes that she truly is the best person for the job. I do. Which is so unfortunate.

00:14:29.520 Hard to believe. You can't, you can't work with that, right? There's nothing to work with. Yeah.

00:14:34.980 And hopefully we don't need to. California might have to. I think she's probably going to make a

00:14:38.160 run for governorship in California. Yeah. Well, we'll see how that goes. All right. Well,

00:14:42.120 let's get to some questions now that we've pissed half the population off. Yeah, you did. I just

00:14:46.080 listened and slightly agreed. We were part of it. You're guilty by association. You're not getting

00:14:51.240 out of this one, man. All right. We're going to field questions from the iron council, uh, to learn

00:14:56.940 more about the iron council, go to order of man.com slash iron council, Aaron Cobb as a man in my early

00:15:03.300 thirties, I'm looking to expand my wealth in the, in the next few years. I've talked with my parents

00:15:08.540 about some, about this some, and right now it looks like my best option is to get hooked up with a

00:15:14.420 financial advisor to do investments for me. Are there any other options that either of you would

00:15:19.540 recommend? Um, did he say he wants to build wealth now? So it sounds like, well, I I'm making an

00:15:29.200 assumption and maybe that's the first part of this is making sure that your other, other parts of your

00:15:34.280 financial house are in order, you know? So how, how, what's your debt look like? What's your cashflow

00:15:39.900 look like? Um, are there ways that you can maximize your, your earnings potential? Cause

00:15:45.560 that's actually more, that's going to be a greater return than investing in the stock market.

00:15:50.600 And I, I invest in the stock market, but if I could take $10,000 and pump it into my business

00:15:56.900 and let's say put together an event and make $50,000 from it, I will do that all day long over

00:16:04.700 putting $10,000 into the stock market and hopefully making $12,000 over the next three years.

00:16:10.540 And being excited about it. So I would say before you start getting into that, not that you

00:16:15.480 shouldn't, there are tax benefits, tax breaks, 401ks, Roths, all that kind of stuff. And you'll

00:16:20.580 figure out all that stuff, but just be aware of the other foundational principles first. So again,

00:16:27.460 cashflow, knowing where your money is coming and where it's going, you gotta, it's like the analogy

00:16:32.760 of the sinking ship. If the sink is, if the ship is sinking and you just keep shoveling water off,

00:16:40.380 but it's water is coming on faster than you're shoveling it off, you're going to sink to the

00:16:45.120 bottom of the ocean. So the first thing you probably ought to consider doing is plugging the hole.

00:16:49.820 And most people go straight to investments, straight to all the sexy stuff, but realize, or maybe never

00:16:55.940 realize that they've got an extra 500, 700, a thousand dollars a month leaking out of their

00:17:03.020 cashflow because they have no idea where it's going. And that's an immediate return for you

00:17:08.520 if we're talking about investments. So cashflow first, making sure your insurances are in place,

00:17:13.900 life insurance, health insurance, auto insurance, emergency. Those are the big three. Yeah. Emergency

00:17:19.920 fund that like your defensive position essentially is what that is. Yeah. Uh, and then, then you get

00:17:26.440 into your earnings potential and see where you might maximize your own earnings. Because if

00:17:31.260 another example, I've seen people go to school and do this, and I'm not a huge advocate of formal

00:17:36.140 education, but this makes sense to me that if a school teacher is making, I don't know,

00:17:40.880 $65,000 a year, and they can go back to school for the next two years and spend 10 grand, but their

00:17:47.360 earnings potential goes from 65 to 85, that's a legitimate investment to me. So there's things

00:17:54.180 like that, that you can look at with earnings potential and then start looking into the investments

00:17:58.220 and business stuff and real estate and all these other sorts of avenues that are good, but you just want

00:18:04.760 to make sure you cover the other bases as well. Yeah. I have nothing to add. I mean, this,

00:18:09.760 this is your area of expertise. I, all I know is when I worked for myself, I would get so wrapped up

00:18:17.220 into cashflow is everything, you know, like if Asia and I were talking about saving money, I'm like,

00:18:22.740 well, you can save money, but if I just get another project, that's going to blow that out of water.

00:18:27.100 Right. So it was always about earning potential. I always felt like I could just work a little bit

00:18:32.040 harder in a different way or increase my rates. And that was a quicker win and more successful

00:18:39.300 than, you know what I mean? All the other little things. Oh yeah. It was, it was almost a trap for

00:18:43.760 me. Cause my answer to everything was just like close another deal, you know, but I, I don't think

00:18:50.240 it's that bad. I mean, I, I like a lot of what Dave Ramsey shares on the basic foundational stuff

00:18:55.160 for probably 80% of the population. Um, but I'm not really interested in eating beans and rice for

00:19:01.400 the rest of my life. Now there's a point in my time where, or a point, a point of time in my life

00:19:06.320 where that made a lot of sense. But if I could go out and make an extra $5,000 this month, I'll do that

00:19:13.960 before trying to starve myself and keep $5,000 that I've already earned. Totally. But I realize also not

00:19:20.940 everybody's in that position. So, but that's the position you want to get in. Yeah. Like if I needed

00:19:25.880 $10,000 in the next two weeks for whatever, I could generate that now because of the things that

00:19:34.140 I've done over the past 10 to 15 years of my life. Ryan, when you talk about your earnings,

00:19:39.280 like your potential earnings to increase your potential earnings, maybe for the average guy,

00:19:43.960 and we obviously don't know this for Aaron in his current circumstance, but let's just assume that

00:19:48.540 the average guy listening works a W-2 job. What does that look like from your perspective? What

00:19:54.780 advice would you say, like how to evaluate and increase your potential earning? Uh, raises and

00:20:01.800 promotions. So that's, that's what I mean for your average W-2 person. So for example, to go back to

00:20:08.200 the school teacher, that's, that's a raise. They went and got their degree and, and now they go from 65 to

00:20:16.100 85, that would be a raise. Or another one in the school teacher arena is if somebody moves into

00:20:20.760 administration now. So they're a school teacher and now they're moving into admin. That's an

00:20:24.880 automatic, that's a promotion. And with that promotion comes extra earnings. So if you're not

00:20:30.640 in that position, one thing you might be able to do is just go to your boss. And so Kip, if you're my

00:20:34.680 boss, I might say, Hey boss, I've been working here for five years now. I'm really happy with the work

00:20:39.360 we're doing and excited about what we're doing. I just wanted to see, I had some questions for you and I

00:20:44.060 have some things I wanted to present. Um, and the first question is, you know, how do you feel about

00:20:49.440 my performance? Where do you feel like I've done well? Where do you feel like I can improve? Like

00:20:53.120 just have that kind of discussion. And then I might say, well, you know, the reason I wanted to talk

00:20:57.080 with you today is because I would like to figure out how I can maximize my earnings here through the

00:21:03.420 value that I offer. So I'd like to ask for a raise and in exchange for that raise, here's the things

00:21:08.500 that I anticipate I'll do in order for you to justify that. And you might say, yeah, sure.

00:21:14.700 And then you're going to kick yourself because you're like, I should have asked for that two

00:21:17.720 years ago. Or you might say, you know, Ryan, we, we're not doing that right now, but if you want

00:21:24.420 to evaluate that, we can do that in six months. Now, as an employee, be very careful with that

00:21:29.960 because a lot of times bosses will just kick the can down the road. Yeah. It's like, I don't want to

00:21:33.900 deal with this right now. And they'll just say six months can bother me. And then six months,

00:21:37.400 it's the same conversation that you had today. So what I would say to that is Kip, if you said to

00:21:42.380 me, Hey, in six months, let's have that conversation. Oh, great. I, you know, I'm, I'm flattered. I

00:21:48.580 appreciate your willingness and, and openness to that idea. Let me ask you this, what would need to

00:21:55.640 happen between now and the next six months where it would be a no brainer for you to offer me a raise.

00:22:02.040 And then they're going to tell you now what you're doing is not only are you figuring out what you can

00:22:08.100 do, you're putting their feet to the fire in a very respectful way. You're holding them accountable

00:22:12.880 to their word because that's what mature men do. We don't use soft language. We don't allow people

00:22:21.100 off the hook. And if they try, we pin them down again, respectfully. Uh, but that would, that'd be

00:22:27.080 how I'd ask for a raise, but I would ask for a promotion very much the same way. If I see a promotion at

00:22:31.020 the office, I'd go into the box. I'd be the first one of the boss. Hey boss, I saw on the bulletin,

00:22:35.320 uh, there's a new promotion within the organization and I want to throw my hat in the ring, but is there

00:22:41.580 anything that you can tell me when you're considering who's going to get this position

00:22:45.220 that I might be aware of so that I can present myself in the best light and show you what I'm

00:22:50.340 capable of doing? Like people will call that brown nosing, call it whatever you want. I want to win.

00:22:56.540 I want the promotion and you're asking what you can do to add value and you're giving yourself a

00:23:02.380 leg up. I would, that's what I would do. Yeah. I mean, you get that type of communication from an

00:23:08.000 employee, your respect for them just skyrockets because you want someone that's hungry, that

00:23:14.320 they want it not passive. You want someone that's assertive and they want it because that tells you

00:23:20.560 their level of commitment to the new position or their level of commitment to the org. But if they're

00:23:26.240 just sitting back and just, they're just ticket takers, they don't want it. They're not hungry

00:23:31.720 enough to even be successful in that role anyway. So I don't think it's brown nosing. I think it's

00:23:37.260 an outward expression of what's important to them, right. And their willingness to put in the hard

00:23:41.900 work. Yeah. Thanks for asking that additional question. Yeah, it is. It is a good question. I think

00:23:48.200 the, um, I think the important thing here too, is that when it comes to raises and promotions,

00:23:54.340 you can't just do really good when those opportunities present themselves. And this is

00:24:01.260 why I get frustrated when I hear guys even allude to the, that's not my responsibility. They don't pay

00:24:08.000 me enough to like that kind of, that kind of stuff is ridiculous. If you really want the promotion,

00:24:14.860 then you do it now. You do the work now. I had a manager when I was young and I was in retail

00:24:21.180 and she, we were talking about leadership and I was really, at the time I was young and immature

00:24:26.500 and I was really interested in the title of leadership. And she says, lead before the title,

00:24:31.080 do, do the title now, do the work of what that title entails now. And that will inevitably happen.

00:24:37.540 And sure enough, it did. And it continues to do that. So if you, the other one you hear is like

00:24:43.620 Gandhi's be the change you want to see in the world. If you want to change in your life,

00:24:47.700 do that now. And then all of the results will come as a result of the effort that you put in today.

00:24:53.240 But I don't need to wait to help other people. I don't need to wait to share resources. I don't

00:24:58.240 need to wait to communicate. I don't need to wait for look for, to look for problems until I'm a

00:25:03.480 quote unquote leader at my office. I should do that now appropriately. There are lines

00:25:07.520 that you can step over, but you have to do it appropriately. And if you do that,

00:25:10.940 the promotions and the raises just come. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Tony Urzi would

00:25:16.940 love to hear your thoughts on the difference between putting up boundaries versus building

00:25:21.240 a wall in regards to relationships, how to keep a boundary that guards from becoming a wall

00:25:27.460 that separates. Thanks for all that you guys do. Hmm. That's good. I don't know if I've really

00:25:32.900 thought about that. When he first said that, I was thinking the difference between a boundary

00:25:37.580 and a wall, a wall is impenetrable. A boundary is more established. You know, maybe it's not

00:25:44.400 as, it's not as tangible. Maybe, I guess that's one thing that came to mind. But another thing

00:25:51.180 that came to mind is the motives a person would have. What's the phrase? High fences make the

00:25:57.920 best neighbors, right? Like put a fence up. You're, you're, you will be better neighbors

00:26:04.900 with the people you live around because there's boundaries enforced. And when it comes to the

00:26:11.360 motive of a boundary, it's so that everybody is, has the expectation and we can have a healthy,

00:26:16.760 good relationship within the parameters of the way that we have defined. But when you put a wall up,

00:26:22.820 it's like, no, I don't want to have anything healthy. I don't want to communicate. I don't

00:26:29.040 want to do these things. And I'm, my motive is to keep you away from me in some capacity

00:26:35.060 because typically it's because I'm hurt or it's my response to past relationships. So I think the

00:26:43.340 difference is your motive. Is your motive to keep the relationship pure and good and healthy? Or is

00:26:49.820 your motive to reject, create a barrier to keep yourself safe from harm that probably perceived

00:26:58.180 harm, probably harm that doesn't even really exist? Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree. Intent,

00:27:04.680 mindset, whatever you want to call it. And, and a Tony one, you know, this, cause I'm, I'm sure we've

00:27:10.080 even had this conversation in the past, but like a phrase that I love to steal from the book,

00:27:14.840 the anatomy of peace from the Arbinger Institute is a heart at war or heart at peace. You can

00:27:22.020 establish a boundary and still have a heart at peace. That that's the check. And I don't, I love

00:27:26.740 that language. Maybe that doesn't work for other people, but I know what that feels like. If you,

00:27:31.560 if Ryan said, do you have a heart at war towards someone? I'd be like, you don't even have to

00:27:36.000 describe it. I'd be like, yeah, yeah, I do or I don't. Right. I just, that language helps me

00:27:42.120 like check my intent and my mindset towards someone. So if you have a heart at war,

00:27:47.640 call it a boundary, call it a wall. It doesn't matter, but it's a wall, right? If you have a

00:27:52.780 heart at war towards someone and you're saying, well, I need established boundaries. It's like,

00:27:56.880 it will come through how you feel about them. It's going to look like a wall. Uh, but if you have a

00:28:02.400 heart at peace, there's some empathy involved, then absolutely. We're operating in that space of

00:28:07.220 boundary, which is an, you know, in the best interest of both parties. Well, so that's a

00:28:12.700 good, let me give you an example. Cause I think sometimes we can talk at these high levels and

00:28:16.400 then it's like, okay, what do you actually, what does this look like in practice? So I think within

00:28:19.860 a relationship, let's give the example or the scenario of a husband and wife needing to talk

00:28:26.080 about an important issue. Maybe it's the way that one of their children are behaving. Um, or maybe it's

00:28:32.400 the way that you two are behaving towards each other. You guys aren't being kind and decent and

00:28:37.460 respectful. And the marriage is kind of faltering and it feels like your roommates more than lovers.

00:28:42.880 And so you need to talk about it. A boundary would be, Hey babe, let's talk about these things.

00:28:49.300 But if either of us get heated as we have in the past, can we both agree to just take a step back

00:28:55.280 from the conversation and then to re-engage when we both had the chance to settle down and we won't

00:29:00.620 call each other names. We won't attack each other personally. We'll just talk about how we're

00:29:04.900 feeling and give suggestions on what the other person might be able to do to help have this be

00:29:11.100 a better relationship. But if it goes sideways, then let's both agree that we'll come back when

00:29:16.020 we're both more level-headed. That's reasonable. And the motive, the intent is to have a good,

00:29:22.780 healthy discussion that drives the relationship forward. Here's the other example. Same thing.

00:29:28.920 You two need, relationship's not going well. You guys are struggling. Roommates instead of lovers.

00:29:34.440 And she comes to you and says, Hey, you know, the marriage isn't going well. I need to talk to you.

00:29:41.020 And in your mind, you get triggered and you think she's going to tell you she wants a divorce and

00:29:45.520 she's going to tell you how horrible you are. And she's going to henpeck you and nitpick you.

00:29:49.340 And you say, I don't want to talk about it. Every time we do this, we argue. I don't even want to

00:29:54.100 talk about it. Can we just do this later and then march out of the room? That's a wall.

00:30:01.580 It does not foster healthy results. So same scenario. One's a boundary. One's a wall.

00:30:07.380 Yeah. That's a great example. I can relate to both.

00:30:12.200 Yeah, we all can.

00:30:14.860 Robbie Leffel, should men prioritize personal projects that connect them to their strengths

00:30:21.040 and masculine identity, such as woodworking, building, and gardening, even if they're not

00:30:27.300 necessarily required, but they would be beneficial to us and others if we created them.

00:30:35.000 Can dedicating time to these projects help ground and fulfill us as men?

00:30:41.520 My answer is yes and no. I saw this question and I really liked this question. And my answer is yes

00:30:46.280 and no. Now I'm, I'm going to just use some verbiage here because this will help me articulate

00:30:52.280 what I mean. There are certain things that, for example, working out is not a hobby to me.

00:30:58.380 It's just a requirement. It's just what you do. It's, I enjoy it. I have fun with it. I don't make money

00:31:05.560 doing it. It's, it is some, it technically, it sounds like a hobby, but it's not just like this

00:31:10.600 enjoyable, like, does that make sense how I'm even defining that? Yeah. Well, it's not always fun,

00:31:16.020 right? Like you'll, sometimes you grind to get it done. Sure. But I don't even think hobbies need to be

00:31:22.500 fun. Like somebody might go hiking, for example, and, and hiking, like you go on a grueling hike

00:31:27.920 and it's not always fun, but you feel good in accomplishing it. I don't know. I don't know what

00:31:31.880 the distinction there. Maybe we can hash that out a little bit, but the point that I was making is

00:31:35.920 that there are certain things that we should just do as men because we have a responsibility and

00:31:42.560 obligation to do them. So being fit in my mind is an obligation and responsibility I have

00:31:50.440 to myself and the people I love. It's, I'm obligated to do it. It's not a question of

00:31:55.740 if I should be healthy or not. I'm obligated to be healthy as a man. So I should prioritize that

00:32:02.040 over picking, like pruning roses in the garden or something. Like, of course I should prioritize it

00:32:10.300 over that. Is pruning roses in the garden less manly though? I don't actually think so.

00:32:16.100 My grandpa, I remember he had this rose garden that he loved. And every time we went over,

00:32:20.980 his backyard was immaculate. And I don't particularly like roses. I don't like the smell of them,

00:32:25.900 but I loved watching him just mosey. And that's the word I would say, just mosey in the garden,

00:32:32.880 hands behind his back, slow paced, just moseying around, looking at his flowers, looking at his

00:32:39.180 plants. And I loved it. I don't think he was being less manly because he wasn't shooting guns or

00:32:44.860 at jujitsu. So yes and no, there's, if you have a weakness, a deficiency that puts you or the people

00:32:54.300 you love at risk, you should prioritize that. Yeah. But if you're working on those things and

00:32:59.800 you're improving in those departments and you're getting better at those things,

00:33:02.700 I don't have any problem doing activities that some people would say is unmanly. Painting,

00:33:09.240 drawing, moseying in the garden, planting a garden, learning how to cook, that's not less manly. It

00:33:17.300 just isn't. So that's my answer. Yes and no. Yeah. I think I understand what you're saying. I mean,

00:33:23.340 if as men, we have responsibilities in the space that requires and or our masculinity is brought to

00:33:33.720 the table to serve others. If we're indeficient in those areas of masculinity that, that hinders our

00:33:40.960 ability to serve others effectively, we should be shoring those up. Absolutely. Hobbies, on the other

00:33:47.840 hand, it is whatever it is, as long as that's not the priority over our role as a man. Right. Is that

00:33:57.960 fair? I mean, I take like, yeah, I think it is fair. I think, you know, you take something like

00:34:03.140 surfing, for example. I have, I have quite a few friends who like to surf. I wouldn't say that

00:34:08.520 directly makes them a quote unquote better man, but if it makes them and if it makes life more

00:34:15.920 enjoyable, if they're more pleasant to be around, if they, if they are challenging to them and they're

00:34:21.560 overcoming obstacles and they're doing hard things and they're getting in shape and they're exposing

00:34:26.340 themselves to sun, like there's so much good that would come from that. It's hard to say that that

00:34:32.240 doesn't make them a better man. I think it does. But the analogy, I guess you could use or the example

00:34:37.180 is this weekend, I had the opportunity to go shoot. I'm going to choose shooting over painting

00:34:43.820 every time. And maybe it's because I just would like to shoot more than I'd like to paint. But also I

00:34:50.320 think there's a much more practical application for me as a man to learn to shoot. Now, if I'm an

00:34:55.280 expert shooter and I shoot all the time and I get plenty of training and one day I just want to sit

00:35:00.200 and just paint something beautiful, get after it by all means do it. Cause I think creation is pretty

00:35:06.820 masculine as well. Yeah. Love it. All right. Gavin, uh, miserly when trying to lead my leaders. So when

00:35:15.800 trying to lead my leaders, I find it difficult when being asked to compromise what I know is right

00:35:22.080 operationally, not morally though, how do you feel is the best way to handle this situation?

00:35:29.340 I'm glad he clarified operational versus moral because moral is it's a hard. No, it's no, I'm the

00:35:35.560 leader. I'm in charge. No, we're not doing that because you have to maintain the integrity of the

00:35:40.680 team or the group or the mission. Of course, really quick, but operationally at the beginning of

00:35:45.840 this question when trying to lead my leaders. So I'm assuming he's talking about leading up the chain

00:35:51.580 of command, not leading his subordinate leaders. Right. Is that how you read that?

00:35:58.880 No, initially I, I read leading subordinates who are also leaders. I think he's talking about

00:36:05.600 leading up the chain, right? Cause that makes more sense. Why, why, why is compromising what he knows

00:36:11.460 is right? Like, why does he feel he has to compromise? Yeah. Okay. So that, that actually

00:36:16.620 makes more sense. I miss, I misunderstood when you said, I think you're right. I did too when I first

00:36:20.180 read it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. Okay. So morally, of course, if some, if one of your bosses is asking

00:36:26.720 you to do something immoral, this is why I talk about sovereignty guys. If, if I've got a hundred

00:36:32.420 thousand dollars in liquid assets, you know, maybe I've got 20 in the bank and I've got 50 over here in an

00:36:39.200 IRA and another 30 somewhere else, you know, and then crypto that I can get at some point. And a

00:36:44.700 boss comes to me and says, Hey, I need you to do this. And it's illegal, unethical or immoral. I can

00:36:49.300 say a few, I'm not doing that. Yeah. And I can leave now. It's not going to be comfortable. I'm not

00:36:55.560 going to be real excited about it, but I've got a hundred thousand dollars. I get a hundred thousand

00:36:59.720 dollar insurance policy against doing things that jeopardize my principles. And that's why sovereignty

00:37:05.800 is so important. If I had no money and I'm strapped for cash, I'm living paycheck to paycheck or worse,

00:37:12.120 meaning I'm going into debt every single week. And he asked me to do something immoral,

00:37:18.400 much more likely to do that significantly more. In fact, I've done that because I've been

00:37:24.920 financially compromised. So you have to make sure that you're sovereign and always for that reason.

00:37:29.540 So it's a little side conversation. Well, you know, at the end of the day, when you're leading

00:37:36.480 up the chain of command, leading your leaders, and they're asking you to do something operational,

00:37:41.040 they, they're the leaders. It's their, it's their show. So the only thing that you can do is say,

00:37:48.040 Hey, but like, if you're my leader, Kip, Hey, you gave this, you gave me and my team a project at work.

00:37:53.040 And, um, I, I really, we're really excited to do it. Uh, I had this idea. I learned this technique

00:37:58.700 or I've been trying this thing, or I came across this strategy and I wanted to ask if you would be

00:38:06.140 okay with me taking just this element of the project and trying it this way. Not the whole thing.

00:38:13.780 90% what you asked me to do, like, sure. But I think if we do this 10%, just a little differently,

00:38:19.860 I think it'll make a difference and I'll make you a deal. If it makes a difference and is better

00:38:27.060 than we win and we did it better, faster, and we're going to make more money from it.

00:38:31.160 If it doesn't work at all, we'll scrap it. We'll go back to your old way and we'll double down on

00:38:36.760 what you suggested. I'd try to make a deal. Totally. Totally. I mean, that's, but if I said,

00:38:43.560 Hey, let me take over and do a hundred percent of it. That's a hard sell, but I said, give me 10%

00:38:47.580 and I'll do 90 on yours and 10 on mine. What do you think? I think if you're worth your weight

00:38:52.320 and you've been around for a while, he trusts, knows, and likes you, I think you might say,

00:38:55.940 all right, give it a try. What's the worst? And you tell him like, Hey, the worst couldn't happen

00:39:00.600 is we're going to be two weeks late on the project. The best that could happen is we're

00:39:04.660 going to come under budget by 20% and we're going to make 300% more. Those are pretty good.

00:39:10.200 I'd take those bets all day long. Totally. And Gavin, I don't know if this is the case for you,

00:39:14.800 but like, make sure you're approaching this from a perspective of humility, right? Because

00:39:22.140 we all think we're right. Is there things that the bosses know that you don't know that you're

00:39:29.280 not even considering? And so you may not be. Now, the other thing is ask, right? I would go to my boss

00:39:38.840 and say, Hey, I'm struggling getting behind this. Like, can you explain to me why this is the right

00:39:46.600 direction? Cause I want to get all behind it, but, but I'm seeing gaps in it and maybe it's me and I

00:39:52.420 have a misunderstanding. Can you, can you give me more information so I can understand this better

00:39:56.420 so I can rally behind it? So put the pressure back on them to get clarity, um, from, from the fact

00:40:04.600 that you don't think it's the right direction. Let me share a quick story. I had, this is probably

00:40:11.200 about a year and a half ago, uh, in Ryan, you'll appreciate this a little bit. Um, but I was putting

00:40:17.460 together a curriculum, right? For, for leadership development. And, and there was like 10 pillars

00:40:22.120 and, and this leader of mine comes to me and says, 10, huh? That's a lot. And I was like, yeah,

00:40:29.960 but it's, it's whole and complete. It needs the 10. And he goes, I disagree. And I'm like,

00:40:38.580 I don't need you to agree. Right? Like I was so opinionated, right? That I know this is the right

00:40:43.920 thing. And this is perfect because in my mind I was right. He was wrong. And then he flanks me and

00:40:49.960 goes, Kip, is it more important that it's whole and complete or that it gets adopted and used?

00:40:56.740 Hmm. And I was like, damn, got it. Right? So it wasn't that I was right. And he was wrong.

00:41:07.540 I was right. And he was right. Right. He was thinking a lot more strategic than I was thinking.

00:41:13.760 And he was saying, yeah, you're, you're 10 pillars are great, Kip, but 10 is too much. And it's going

00:41:20.200 to affect people's ability to adopt what you're trying to teach them. So it's better that it's,

00:41:26.300 less complete and it gets used. And that was, uh, uh, an insight that I completely overlooked.

00:41:34.900 Yeah. And so be careful. They might be right. And you might be right. You just might be looking at

00:41:40.920 things differently. And so seek to understand. It was cool in that example that you had the

00:41:47.720 humility to say, Oh yeah, you know what? That is, that is a good point. And that changes the whole

00:41:52.760 thing. Cause a lot of guys would be like, well, you put me in charge. I'm doing it. I'm doubling

00:41:57.300 down. Yeah. A lot of most people actually would. So for you to say, Oh, you know what? Like,

00:42:03.160 and the other cool thing is now you have a part two. Yeah. Totally. Totally. Like here's the five,

00:42:09.920 here's the version, here's the foundational five. And now that we're getting good with that,

00:42:14.500 let's dig deeper. And here's the more sophisticated five or whatever. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:42:19.500 Totally. Yeah. Well, I wanted to share one other thing. I liked that example. Um, because of how we

00:42:25.280 misread it, I actually think there's value in the way that we misread it initially. Yeah. When you're,

00:42:30.060 when you're a leader. So for example, I'm, I'm the leader, the leader in the iron council, right? If

00:42:36.140 there was a, the leader, that would be me. But I have a lot of leaders in the iron council who manage

00:42:41.400 teams, who help with different tasks and projects and parts of parts of our organization. Um, I didn't

00:42:48.880 always used to be this way, but I've been really aware of letting them lead. Why would I, why would

00:42:55.140 I be the bottleneck to my organization's growth? Yeah. I'm the one who asked them to be in this role.

00:43:02.360 If I asked them, seems like I have some faith in what they can do. And we've had situations where

00:43:08.060 guys have come to me with ideas and some I've nixed, but I think for the most part, I I'm usually okay

00:43:12.940 with saying, okay, let's try it. And then we make it better or we scrap it. And there's a lot of

00:43:18.940 things that we've scrapped over time. But what I would suggest to you, if you're leading down the

00:43:23.540 chain of command to your leaders down the chain of command is follow them. Kip, if I give you a

00:43:31.360 responsibility, I'm not going to micromanage. We're going to talk about expectations, but I'm not going

00:43:36.600 to micromanage. And if you come to me and I've had plenty of instances where this is the case,

00:43:40.780 somebody comes to me and says, Hey, here's how I think we should do it. And I don't agree. I'll

00:43:45.760 say, I don't actually agree with that, but I'm curious. I'm actually curious if you're, you might

00:43:50.820 be right. And I know I'm right, but I think you might be, we'll find out. Yeah. And I have been

00:43:57.720 surprised in the overwhelming majority of times I've been pleasantly surprised with how well things work

00:44:04.700 that aren't my ideas. I know it. I don't always have the best ideas, but remember what it feels

00:44:10.600 like when a leader above the chain of command doesn't take your advice and remember that

00:44:15.560 feeling for when you're in the leadership role, working down the chain of command, how those

00:44:20.380 people want to be treated the same way you wanted to be treated when the roles were reversed.

00:44:25.420 Yeah, totally. Well, in an analogy that, that I've shared a couple of times, you know, if we relate

00:44:30.660 this to our kids cleaning their room, right? Micromanaging in this example is me telling them

00:44:37.580 exactly how to do the room. When in reality, I've lost sight. My job as their dad is not to have a

00:44:45.900 clean room. It's not about the room. It's about the kid that's cleaning the room. And what does that

00:44:52.480 kid need? Someone to believe in them, to make mistakes, to be believed in and not do it perfect

00:45:00.180 and pivot and adjust and grow and get coaching. That, that is what is best for the kid. But often

00:45:06.960 as leaders, what we do is we end up operationally micromanaging per se the operations. Why? Because

00:45:13.360 we're, we're so narrow focused on the operational outcome that we all lost sight that the strategic

00:45:18.800 play is the investment of the person actually doing the work.

00:45:22.340 I thought you were going to say, what does that kid need? And I thought, get hit with

00:45:28.840 the belt or a wooden spoon or something. So he cleans his damn room. That's what I thought

00:45:32.600 you were going to go.

00:45:33.120 Let's go.

00:45:38.060 Another podcast at another time, but yeah, absolutely.

00:45:42.160 Parenting, all the worst things you can do as a parent.

00:45:45.940 We could, we could go for hours on that one. Or at least I could.

00:45:49.140 Yeah. For sure. All right. Chris, Chris, the dude Davis. Okay guys, battle team Eagle. I love

00:45:58.840 this question. Actually battle team Eagle is studying for the month of January, uh, January

00:46:04.220 and February, the book, the 12 week year by Brian Moran below is one of the questions from our lesson

00:46:10.180 plan. Please give us your thoughts on this question. The question is, you can hold a baby

00:46:16.380 and you can hold a bag of groceries, but you can't hold others accountable. Meaning accountability

00:46:23.200 can only come from within and from yourself. Knowing this, how can you help others be more

00:46:30.400 accountable?

00:46:33.220 Well, I actually don't fully believe that. I think there's tiers of accountability.

00:46:39.920 Absolutely. Yeah. So the lower, I don't disagree with the premise of it, but the way that it's

00:46:46.640 worded, I don't totally agree with it. So I can hold you accountable Kip by here's a good way I can do

00:46:51.560 it. Hey Kip, um, let's say we had this podcast scheduled at 10 and you're not here. I can say to

00:47:00.940 you, Kip, if you, if you're late one more time, you're out. I'm not having you podcast with me again.

00:47:05.820 Yeah. Would that be holding you accountable? Absolutely. Totally. That's not personal

00:47:12.800 accountability. That's me enforcing accountability on you. And then you make a decision. You're

00:47:17.380 either late or you're not. Yeah. And by the way, I'm really close to saying that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm

00:47:21.520 sure. Just kidding. I was late. I was late today. Every week I'm like, is this my last week? Eight

00:47:28.320 years later? No, I was, I was late today. So, but that's one, that's a, that's a silly example. Not even

00:47:34.660 silly. That's an actual accurate example of how somebody might hold somebody else accountable

00:47:38.760 or to your kids. Hey, if you don't clean your room in the next 15 minutes, you're grounded

00:47:43.000 for the rest of the weekend. That's accountability. Absolutely. There you are accountable to the

00:47:50.360 consequences of your decisions or lack thereof. That's a lower tier of accountability. You talk

00:47:55.620 about it, commitment versus compliance, right? Yeah. There's other ways to hold somebody accountable

00:48:00.260 too. So I go to the gym every day, six, five days a week with my friend and usually get six days in

00:48:05.500 his name's Woody. And so we go to the gym every morning and there's been days where I'm like, I don't,

00:48:11.140 I don't actually want to go to the gym. I don't, I'm not interested in going to the gym. And the only

00:48:16.560 reason I go to the gym is not cause I want to, it's cause I know he's going to be there and I'm not

00:48:22.900 going to let him down. Yeah. That is, it's a little bit of self accountability cause I'm doing

00:48:29.520 it. The motive of accountability is not as pure as just entirely self accountable. Yeah. But the

00:48:35.060 motive is a little bit personally accountable, but also it's that external factor that's helping you

00:48:41.480 make better decisions. And then there's self accountability, which is if I don't even care

00:48:46.640 if Woody goes to the gym or not, I'm going to be there. And if he's there, great. And if he's not,

00:48:50.840 I don't care. I'm going to do my workout all the same, just as hard, just as much if he was or was

00:48:55.920 not looking. And that to me is character. It's accountability for sure, but it's character.

00:49:00.820 What do you do when no one is watching? Would you make the same decisions today in every instance,

00:49:06.880 if nobody ever knew what you did? If it's yes, then I think you're, you're in, you're in alignment

00:49:14.020 with your character. You have integrity. And if it's no, then you have some issues to work out there.

00:49:17.580 So for me, I choose to look at it and say, okay, there's tiers of accountability. And when

00:49:21.840 somebody is just getting started with something, having lower tiers of accountability is completely

00:49:26.600 adequate, not adequate, completely good. Yeah. You got to have it. Yeah. And in the meantime,

00:49:32.540 and this goes to your point about teaching your kids about how to clean their room and

00:49:36.380 help out around the house is that over time through the lessons you shared, because you're not going to

00:49:43.000 be a micromanager or that enforcer type person, they're going to learn self-accountability.

00:49:48.580 I keep my stuff really clean and straight, very, very organized. Like everything's in the right

00:49:56.480 place. Well, I learned that from my mom and that had to be, I can't even tell you how many times she's

00:50:02.460 like, no, clean your room better. No, go back in there to the bathroom. Toilet seat wasn't clean.

00:50:06.720 You need to do that and get that done. Right. We do things right. And now that's not a question.

00:50:11.020 It's so ingrained into my DNA because she made sure it was that I'm at a different level of

00:50:15.820 accountability. It's almost accountability that you don't even know you're doing it.

00:50:20.100 Yeah. It's that ingrained in who you are as a person that you don't even need to hold yourself

00:50:24.920 accountable to anything. It's just what you do. It's just what you do. Yeah, absolutely. Well,

00:50:30.060 and I love this question that Chris posed for us because often there's an element of accountability

00:50:37.460 that gets overlooked and you touched base here or you touched on it briefly. And I just want to

00:50:43.660 like expand on it slightly is, and it was the statement is accountability. You can only come from

00:50:50.120 within or from yourself. So from like a organizational perspective or actually, actually let's use a

00:50:56.940 podcast as an example, right? If you're like holding me accountable because I'm late. Well,

00:51:01.220 guess what the accountability is based upon the agreement between you and I that I would be here

00:51:09.480 on time. So are you holding me accountable to anything other than my own word? Hmm. That's all.

00:51:19.980 That's what you're doing. Maybe enforcing accountability. Yeah. You're enforcing my accountability

00:51:26.380 to myself because I said I would do it. And, and this is what I love about like accountability that

00:51:33.340 we create within the iron council is, and I love this play on words is our battle plans is our outward

00:51:41.500 expression of what we're committed to. So when you hold me accountable to my battle plan, you're not

00:51:47.980 nonchalantly holding me accountable to some ideal thing that Ryan Mickler thinks Kip should do.

00:51:54.520 No, you're holding me accountable to what I said I would do to what I committed to myself.

00:52:03.060 And that changes the accountability conversation when you look at it that way. So for you, for

00:52:10.000 instance, in a job environment, for you to hold someone accountable to their performance, guess

00:52:13.800 what you need to do? The expectations need to be clear. It's got to be clear what's expected of this

00:52:21.280 person. Otherwise, what are you holding them accountable to? A covert contract, your own

00:52:27.780 definition of successes without clearly communicating it and let alone communicating it and asking them if

00:52:34.180 they're willing to do the necessary work of that role. So the, the, the accountability is really an

00:52:41.360 alignment conversation of the commitment between the individual and the leader already. And you're

00:52:48.860 realigning and having a conversation about what they said they were already committed to do.

00:52:54.700 And that just changes what it means to hold someone accountable. Now it's not this persecution

00:53:01.040 thing. It's like, Ryan, I'm only doing what you said is important to you. Yeah. Has that changed?

00:53:07.840 Has that changed? Yeah. It helped me understand. And now it's, it's rooted in,

00:53:13.460 in service and honoring your word and your integrity, not me trying to control you.

00:53:22.200 I love it, man. That is such a good distinction. That's good. That got me thinking again about,

00:53:26.120 well, maybe it only does come from yourself and other people can enforce that accountability that

00:53:30.940 you said. We, you know, where we see this Kip is we actually see it on battle teams inside the

00:53:35.900 iron council and battle teams. If you don't know, or just are a small groups of men, 10 to 12 to 15

00:53:41.700 guys all working together, holding each other accountable. Yeah. Um, enforcing accountability,

00:53:47.160 which maybe has a better, maybe it's more accurate. I don't know. Yeah. It's interesting.

00:53:53.280 Anyways, we'll have guys who, so each team has their own set of expectations. Like you need to be here

00:53:58.780 this amount of time. You need to post these numbers. You need to contribute this much.

00:54:02.440 They have their expectations and it's all clearly defined. And every once in a while,

00:54:07.620 we'll have a team member who will ghost. He'll fall off the bandwagon a little bit. He'll leave.

00:54:13.580 He won't communicate numbers, maybe slacking, not, not holding up to what he said he would do.

00:54:18.520 And a lot of the times battle team leaders have a hard time removing him from the team. Like, I don't,

00:54:24.800 I don't want to move them from the team. And this is the conversation I always have with him.

00:54:29.260 You're not removing him from the team. He's removing himself. Yeah. I'm like, what do you mean?

00:54:34.760 Well, you said, he knew, he signed the thing that said, I will be here on time. I will be,

00:54:41.300 I will be present this amount of time. I will contribute this way. I will post these numbers.

00:54:45.640 I will do all of these things. It's not you not doing that. It's him. Now we're going to give

00:54:50.620 him opportunities. If he misses one time, you're not just going to throw him to the curb. But if

00:54:55.700 you've continually said, Hey, you need to be here. Hey, you need to be here. Hey, you need to be here.

00:54:59.240 The last conversation before it happens is to say, Hey, you know what? You agreed to these things.

00:55:05.980 Have these, has that changed? Has that priority changed? And if you can't uphold these and we

00:55:13.740 know why they're in place, you know why, right? So you clarify with them. Yes. If you can't do this,

00:55:19.020 then you're choosing to leave battle team Eagle. Yeah. And I will let you know that you're no longer

00:55:27.720 part of battle team. But it's not, that's not my choice. The choice is yours to make.

00:55:32.340 What choice do you want to make? Totally. And, and there's a, there's a, there's a black belt

00:55:38.680 version of this a little bit is when we need to hold someone accountable, when they're not honoring

00:55:46.300 their commitments, instead of immediately running to uncertainty, like, Hey, Ryan, you're going to

00:55:54.220 lose this job or Ryan, I'm going to have to fire you, or you're going to kick off the team.

00:55:58.900 Help them understand why the commitments were there in the first place. Ryan, I can't have you not on

00:56:06.980 the call. Why? Cause it sets the bar for the rest of the team. This isn't about you, right? Like

00:56:15.820 this is about how you showing up affects the team. This is about how you not hitting sales quota

00:56:22.700 affects our ability to employ the rest of the company. It's not about you. Now I need you to

00:56:29.780 perform for the greater good of what we're trying to accomplish. And then that way, when they course

00:56:34.580 correct, they see the bigger picture and now they're not operating out of uncertainty, right?

00:56:40.580 Oh man, I better be on the call. If not, I'm going to get kicked off. It's like, whoa, that's,

00:56:44.680 that's blue belt thinking. Black belt thinking is how you show up affects other people. Let me,

00:56:50.020 let me paint that picture for you because that's way more empowering and that's more accurate than

00:56:56.580 it is really shaming you or punishing you for not doing the thing. Right. That is interesting. Cause I,

00:57:03.580 I'm taken back to team sports, you know, when I was playing in high school, man, you didn't want to let

00:57:08.940 your performance slip because you didn't want to be the guy to let the team down. Yeah. Yeah. So much,

00:57:15.820 especially for men, like it's powerful. Totally. So much that if you were, how's this, how many,

00:57:21.780 well, maybe, I don't know if this ever happened to you, but like kids even willingly stepping down

00:57:27.580 because they're letting the team down. Yeah. That's, I don't know that. I don't think I saw,

00:57:35.440 I probably saw that from other team members and I don't know that I've ever had that on one of the

00:57:40.280 teams I coach cause it's young teams, you know, communities, communities stuff, but that doesn't

00:57:47.360 sit well with me either. Oh, that would, that would infuriate. I'm like, you said you're going to be

00:57:51.500 here. You finished this season and you finish it strong. Like you will finish it and you will finish it

00:57:56.160 to a hundred miles an hour. And if you can't, then you don't have to next year, but you made a

00:58:01.380 commitment this year. You're finishing this up. Well, and you look in a coach that, that, that kid

00:58:06.100 right, right. And honor his commitments. I've, I've literally have been in a situation where I've

00:58:12.860 let someone go from their job of employment. And I don't say this as a badge. I say this as what,

00:58:19.980 what we're saying actually works. Like we're not blowing smoke. It, this can actually be how

00:58:28.100 accountability should be like in an organization. This is fully possible. And I've, I've had a

00:58:34.000 scenario where I've let people go and they apologize to me. I'm firing them and they're apologizing

00:58:44.800 because they realize I'm just holding them accountable to their commitment and they didn't

00:58:52.060 honor it. And so they're like, sorry, I didn't honor my commitments and you gave me a fair

00:59:00.540 shake. Like, and, and that means, and I, I only say that is like, that's not like, I want

00:59:09.020 to be really careful. I don't want anyone listening going, oh my gosh, that's so great. Like, look

00:59:12.460 at Kip. He, he could do, uh, fire a guy from his job. I don't think people are taking it that way,

00:59:16.340 but that mindset allows that person to do what, when they leave, they they're learning.

00:59:25.460 They took ownership of their dismissal of their employment. And it was a result of them not

00:59:32.440 honoring a commitment. Do you think that person's going to be better off moving on to another job

00:59:37.660 and self-evaluating how they show up in the world versus the employee? That's just like gets fired

00:59:43.240 because you lack the courage to communicate clearly and hold them accountable. So they feel now that

00:59:48.540 they're just getting fired because their boss doesn't like them. That person's a victim walking

00:59:53.720 away. There's nothing for them to change. They just had a bad boss. Right. Good point. We have this

01:00:00.480 happen even in the iron council. I get messages at this point every week from guys who were in the iron

01:00:06.160 council who want to come back. And, and I actually, whenever they want to come back, I say, why what's

01:00:12.820 changed? I got what, and a lot of the times it's, well, I was doing well and I, and then I just kind

01:00:20.840 of got busy and all the things were going well. So I got rid of that. And then I kind of just slip

01:00:25.280 and then I realized, oh, it was the iron council that was keeping me on track. And so I want to come

01:00:29.300 back. Or I've also had a lot of people say, well, I thought my battle team leader was just being a dick to

01:00:35.360 me. And he kicked me off the team. And so I left bitter and frustrated. And then I realized he wasn't

01:00:41.460 being a dick. He was just holding me accountable. And I actually see the value in that now because

01:00:47.960 I realize it wasn't personal, but you know, I've, I've had this thought too. When you have, as a man,

01:00:56.680 when you see other men, we just naturally are more respectful or respect more men who will hold us

01:01:07.860 accountable and have a standard and don't let that slip. Totally. Versus the guy who is wishy-washy

01:01:15.160 and, and kind of flipping on a standard and moves and has all sorts of expectations. Even though we

01:01:20.940 might not like the guy with the standards as much, we always hold him in higher regard.

01:01:27.480 Yeah. Always without fail. So what lesson should that teach you that you need to be a man who has

01:01:34.300 those standards and doesn't let people walk all over them? Yeah, absolutely. Uh, we have time for two

01:01:40.980 more. Yeah. Let's take a couple more. All right. Jacob Hance, your daily routine to becoming the best dad

01:01:48.940 possible daily routine and becoming the best dad possible. You know, what's interesting about this

01:01:55.400 question is that your daily routine won't only make you the best dad possible. It'll make you the

01:02:00.780 best everything possible. And that's how we know it's a principle because it applies broadly. So my

01:02:08.480 routine, I get up at five 30 every morning. Um, have a, I don't know how detailed or granular you want me to

01:02:13.560 get on this, but I'm not going to tell you about, you know, my personal bowel movements or anything like

01:02:17.840 that, but, um, get up at five 30 every morning, uh, have a glass of water, go to the gym. I'm at the gym

01:02:25.040 from six to seven 30 on average, average seven, about an hour and a half, seven 30. Yeah. Somewhere in

01:02:32.800 there. Um, my workout is strength training and three days a week. I'll sit in the sauna for 15 to 20

01:02:40.040 minutes. Post workout. Come home. What's a post workout. Yeah. Okay. It's, it can get rough,

01:02:47.160 but it's good. I don't do it before the workout because I would rather, if I can choose one,

01:02:51.860 I'd rather have the workout. And if I do a 20 minutes in the sauna, my workout's not going to

01:02:58.120 be nearly as effective. So I don't eat anything before it makes me sick. Like if I go, like I'll

01:03:04.780 throw up if I eat food before I go to the gym. So I don't know how people do it in the afternoon

01:03:08.560 that they do. Um, so that, so that's what I do there. And then I come home, get cleaned up,

01:03:14.140 have a couple of eggs, usually in some bacon, some more water. Uh, and then I get after my day,

01:03:20.980 I just get to work. And then at night, um, the nighttime is not nearly as disciplined as the

01:03:28.040 morning. Uh, just depending on if I'm spending time with my girlfriend or the kids or, you know,

01:03:33.020 going to this practice or that game, just what's going on. But as often as we can dinner together at

01:03:38.940 the, at the dinner table, um, usually we'll, you know, hang out, spend time with the kids.

01:03:44.840 I sing the two youngest kids songs before we go to bed and just kind of play around and,

01:03:49.700 and laugh with them before we go to bed. Uh, and then spend some time with my second son. Cause my

01:03:55.920 oldest is usually out at games or hanging out with his girlfriend or whatever. And then, uh, yes, I,

01:04:02.340 I usually will read like 10 pages of my book, whatever book I might be reading right now.

01:04:07.280 And then one thing I actually really like is I have this, uh, nighttime tea that I drink

01:04:14.780 that has, I don't even know what it has in it, but it has stuff to just help you relax. And

01:04:19.180 that actually makes a huge difference for me to sleep deeper. So that's it.

01:04:24.500 Yeah. I told Asia about that tea that, that you guys drink at nighttime after I visited you out in

01:04:30.320 Maine and she got some of that. Yeah. She got some of that down at Delta. And I was like, whenever she,

01:04:35.240 I don't, I forget about it. And then whenever she says, Oh, you want some of that tea? And I was like,

01:04:39.420 Oh yeah, absolutely. Cause I'm like, it's good stuff. It's nice. Yeah. It's super, it is really

01:04:44.840 good. And it's all natural ingredients, you know? So yeah, but yeah, it helps. It helps a lot.

01:04:50.160 Yeah. I have this pretty much the same routine to be honest with you. I, um, I need it. I need to dial

01:04:57.900 in the evenings, right? For the most part. Like I, I do too. I let it drag too late. Then I'm

01:05:03.660 rushing to get kids in bed. Like I need to be like, it's eight o'clock. This is when we start

01:05:08.940 dialing it down. We start reading some books, you know what I mean? But I don't, it's, it's like,

01:05:13.800 I'm trying to multitask, get a little bit more in. And then before I know it's like nine 30 and then

01:05:18.780 it's like, everyone go to bed and I'm, they're riled up and I'm pissed off and it's a, it's a disaster.

01:05:24.820 That's about us too. Yeah. I need to do that evening routine a lot, a lot better than I do

01:05:30.440 now. But okay. I think, um, regarding the question though, being a better dad is I do

01:05:37.180 try to get as much time as I can with all of the kids in some capacity, which is a challenge

01:05:42.960 with four, you know, and them all doing different things. But if I can get time, I get a lot of

01:05:48.380 time in with my youngest. We get along really well in the mornings. He wakes up before anybody

01:05:52.720 else. So a lot of the times when he's here, I'll get back from the gym and we'll spend 45 minutes

01:05:59.080 together. You know, maybe we'll play a video game for 15 or 20 minutes. And then we usually just build

01:06:04.760 Legos for the rest of the morning together, which I kind of like. I love it. I, um, one thing I've

01:06:11.680 done and I haven't been doing it of late, I need to get back to it is, um, like one-on-one time with

01:06:19.860 each kid, man, that makes a world of a difference. You know, a couple months ago, um, our daughter,

01:06:26.640 one of our daughters was just, I don't know, in a, in a slump. And, uh, my wife's like, Hey,

01:06:32.240 you know what? I need to, we need to have a girl's night. And, and so I hung out with the other kids.

01:06:38.060 She did a little girl's night, exactly what she needed. Just some one-on-one time with a parent

01:06:43.720 to talk about whatever, you know, and, and they're always competing. They're jockeying

01:06:48.580 for your time, you know, when, when we're at home with all of them. And so I used to do like once a

01:06:54.200 month, like a date night with each kid where they pick the activity or whatever the thing is. And we

01:06:59.000 go do it. Um, in lieu of this question, I'm thinking maybe I need to get back to that actually. So

01:07:05.380 thanks for the question. Um, yeah, Jacob, cause now I'm like, all right, I need, I need to get back to

01:07:10.440 the, the monthly monthly at date nights, at least. So can I make a recommendation for you that I've

01:07:16.140 been incorporating over the past two months? This has been awesome. And it's so simple. I have a set

01:07:22.560 day every single week where I take one of my children to lunch and it's, it's on rotation.

01:07:30.120 So last week was my youngest. Um, the week was like every Wednesday and then you rotate the kid.

01:07:37.000 And then I wrote, I only take one. I don't take them all to lunch. I only take one at a time.

01:07:40.520 So that means once a month I'm going to lunch with each of them and it's just, it's on my schedule.

01:07:46.480 It's on my, it is what it is. It doesn't move. If one of the children can't make it cause they're

01:07:51.100 busy with something else, I just go to the next one. And we just every single week and just having

01:07:56.980 that system in place to ensure it actually takes place. Cause once a month, here's what most people

01:08:02.300 do with once a month. Oh, let's just fit it, fit it in when we can. Yeah. And then you never can

01:08:08.500 because it's school and sports and kids and friends. But if you're like, no, every Wednesday,

01:08:15.220 lunch set that's blocked off of my calendar forever. It's, it's a, it's a big deal.

01:08:21.580 Love that. Yeah. I'm still in it. Done. All right. Cool. Last question. Caleb judge

01:08:26.540 recommendations for Bible and study prayer outline. I believe many men, including myself,

01:08:32.320 for struggling in our spiritual walk. I would probably say that, you know, I struggle my

01:08:39.320 spiritual walk as well. So I don't know that that's, I don't, I don't do that. I, I do read

01:08:45.780 from the Bible. Occasionally I could be better at it. And every day I think is something worthy

01:08:51.140 of shooting for, but I don't have any sort of, um, apps or anything like that. There's a couple

01:08:56.540 of devotional apps that I've used in the past where I'll pull them up periodically, but I'm not

01:09:01.160 real consistent with that. So I can't, I can't pretend that I'm very well versed in that department

01:09:08.900 because I'm just not, I was trying to pull this up. Um, I can't find that devotional app. So you

01:09:18.980 can tell how long it's been since I opened it, but I don't know. Do you have something you use,

01:09:22.760 Kip? No. I mean, the times where I do the best is, and it sounds cheesy, but like even just making

01:09:29.320 sure I go to church every Sunday. Right. Um, and then nightly scripture reading, you know what I

01:09:36.460 mean? Before I go to bed. Um, but I think for me too, it's, it's interesting how much my daily

01:09:46.580 routine can be in alignment to my spiritual walk. If I, if it's about the mindset of why am I doing what

01:09:55.180 I'm doing? Yeah. You know, I, I, and I really do feel this, right? Like what is, what is spiritual

01:10:01.400 walk, right? What is religion for the majority of Christians? It's loving your neighbor and loving

01:10:06.980 your God. Well, shit, I can incorporate that every day. So the question is, is how am I doing that at

01:10:16.620 work? Is what I'm doing propping myself up? Is it about creating opportunities for others? Is it making

01:10:23.800 sure that they know that they're cared for and appreciated, right? Like I, I feel like it's more

01:10:29.580 about the mindset of how I go into my day will dictate my spiritual walk probably more than a

01:10:35.540 daily routine of scripture study. Now I'm not saying I shouldn't be, I should be doing that as well,

01:10:40.400 but a lot of it's, is in the spirit of why I do what I do. Yeah. No, I mean, that makes sense.

01:10:48.820 And I think, you know, in a long, in, in conjunction with that is in our battle planner,

01:10:54.660 we have a spot there for your calibration objective. Your calibration is your mental,

01:11:00.400 spiritual, and emotional health. And I've been going through, um, self-authoring course by Jordan

01:11:05.860 Peterson for that. But we've had a lot of guys who will read the entire Bible in a quarter, um, or,

01:11:12.540 you know, give so many lessons at church or within their church congregation or to their men.

01:11:17.200 And, uh, and so if you had something like that, whether it's our battle planning app or something

01:11:21.480 different, uh, you can incorporate that and create your own way of doing it. Maybe it's reading a

01:11:28.280 chapter a day or, you know, taking notes a chapter a day and it becomes your own system as opposed to

01:11:34.180 somebody else's. I will say this though. I think a lot of the times people are looking for things to

01:11:40.440 be easier and I'm not sure if the Bible should be one of those things. Yeah. Like they're looking

01:11:47.040 for other people to translate it and do this system and here, read this, this translation of

01:11:52.380 it. Cause it makes more sense in modern times. And like, I think a lot of times we're looking to

01:11:56.660 gamify things. And I think there is a, there's value in that for certain things, but then there's

01:12:03.120 other things that you should just do because they're good things to do and you don't need to game them.

01:12:08.320 And I would suggest that your spiritual walk is one of those things where you don't need

01:12:14.500 a guide unless it's going to actually help you do it. That's the value of it. Yeah. Um, but man,

01:12:21.380 just reading every day alone and then pondering, you know, taking a half an hour and say, okay,

01:12:24.940 I'm going to read, I'm going to read for 15 minutes and then I'm going to journal on what I

01:12:30.000 read about and think about for the next 15 minutes and just half an hour every day. Like that alone

01:12:36.280 would probably change things for you. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and this is the power of

01:12:42.100 these conversations, man. Right. Cause like I'm leaving this podcast with like, all right. Yep.

01:12:48.180 Yep. Need to schedule lunches with my kids, you know, need to do a little bit better on my reading.

01:12:53.340 Um, this is the power of, of banding and having these kinds of conversations with like-minded men.

01:12:59.220 So thanks. Well, it's, it's interesting cause I've given you some really good ideas today,

01:13:04.140 but I never leave with any good ideas from you. So I don't know what that's like,

01:13:07.920 but it sounds like it's pretty cool. Keep having the conversation. We'll see what happens.

01:13:14.400 No, I love these talks. That's why I made sure I shifted some things around this morning to make

01:13:18.420 sure I was here. Cause I enjoy it. Not only do I enjoy the questions I really do. I, we used to

01:13:23.000 mock the questions. You remember that? Yeah. And there's still some that we do, but I don't know if

01:13:28.260 it's because we're more mature or because the questions are getting better or I don't know

01:13:34.520 what it is, but it's been a while since we've been a long time. Yeah. Yeah. So there you go.

01:13:40.740 We're getting soft guys. Old men getting soft. We are. That's not usually how it goes. Don't old

01:13:46.220 men get grumpier and more on things. Yeah. Yeah. Probably. Well, you know, the couple of call outs,

01:13:53.080 you know, obviously you, as you guys know, if you haven't been following Ryan on, on X and Instagram,

01:13:58.600 please do so. That's at Ryan Mickler. Um, and then we have an up and coming event, uh, the men's forge,

01:14:05.520 uh, you can go to the men's forge.com, uh, a large event, uh, may 1st through the 4th.

01:14:13.460 Right. So once again, that's men's forge.com. Yeah. I'm excited. I, I, I believe that we're going to

01:14:20.260 change a lot of the way events are done. It's a lot of that, not a lot, but a portion of it is

01:14:25.700 that traditional conference style event where you're hearing from good keynote speakers on

01:14:30.580 deep and important subjects. But then we bring in this whole other element that most people don't

01:14:35.580 where it's, we're hanging out together. We're shooting together. We're doing other physical

01:14:40.080 activities together. And we're getting that opportunity to really know each other because

01:14:44.520 what I want to have come out of this event is not that you just have good information, but now you

01:14:49.480 have connections where you can actually start working with these guys on certain subjects

01:14:54.300 and really take the event off, off that a weekend into the rest of your life. So I'm excited about

01:15:00.920 it. Yeah. The men's forge.com. And, uh, yeah, I think that's the biggest thing for now. Go check it

01:15:05.680 out. Oh, also the after action review. If you're interested in doing an after action review for

01:15:09.720 yourself, order of man.com slash after act. Oh, excuse me. Order of man.com slash a a r a r. And, uh,

01:15:18.340 you can find that free resource there as well. All right, guys, appreciate everything today. Good

01:15:24.280 questions. As always, uh, we will be back on Friday until then go out there, take action and become a

01:15:29.800 man. You are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man podcast. You're ready to take

01:15:38.900 charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be. We invite you to join the order

01:15:43.560 of man.com.

Order of Man - January 29, 2025

Prioritizing Masculinity, Leading Your Leaders, and Boundaries vs. Walls ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING

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