Progress Over Perfection, Replacing a Full-Time Job, and Humility Over Arrogance ｜ ASK ME ANYTHING
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Summary
On this episode of the Order of Man Podcast, the guys talk about Black Friday, Thanksgiving, and how to deal with family on Black Friday. They also answer some of your questions and answer a couple of listener questions.
Transcript
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You're a man of action. You live life to the fullest. Embrace your fears and boldly chart
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your own path. When life knocks you down, you get back up one more time. Every time.
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You are not easily deterred or defeated. Rugged. Resilient. Strong. This is your life. This is who
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you are. This is who you will become. At the end of the day, and after all is said and done,
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you can call yourself a man. Mr. Kip Sorensen, what's up brother? Great to see you today.
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Good to see you as well. Happy Thanksgiving. Yeah. Tomorrow's Thanksgiving as of the release
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of the podcast. So you guys have any plans? We always end up hosting, it seems like. So we'll
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have a big group. And then Black Friday, we actually have started boycotting probably about eight years
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ago. And so we leave Friday morning and we go up to Lava Hot Springs in Idaho, rent an Airbnb and hang
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out in that small town all weekend and just eat scones and play board games and go to Hot Springs
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at night. And then that's kind of what we do. It's crazy. I see people, I have friends and family
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members that actually like gear up and get all the coupons and map out the way they're going to do
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things on Friday. And that just is a miserable, miserable thing to me. So, but whatever. No,
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you guys want to go fight over $5 savings, get after it. We're the same way. And then I got pissed.
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I remember years ago where we had family that was like, Hey, we're leaving Thanksgiving dinner early.
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And I'm like, why? And they're like, Oh, because the sales go on earlier now on Thursday. I'm like,
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Oh, you know what? Screw that. I'm like, I'm all out now. Like for sure. I'm out. Yeah. If you guys
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are going to disrupt family time. No, no, no. They don't care. They don't care. I noticed that
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you only have an earbud in your, I think that's your right ear. Cause it's mirrors. Yeah. Does it
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not like, does it not fit in that ear? Your left ear or what? That's what it looks like. I'm like,
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wait, does it not fit in there or what? No, it fits. It falls out easy on this side.
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Okay. I'm not taking a jab. I was like, man, earbuds no longer fit in there.
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Yeah. I'm going to be showing up with, uh, with, uh, some beats instead.
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You're going to have some, some oversized beats. You're going to have to be like these big,
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huge alien bug bug eye ear type thing. Yeah, totally. No, I, I, it's just so I can hear better.
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I don't know. I like, I feel like I'm in a echo chamber when it's all both earbuds.
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You don't want anybody sneaking up behind you. So you got to, you got to make sure you watch my
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shoulder. That's right. All right, man. Well, let's get into some questions today. Shall we?
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Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So we're filling questions today from the Facebook group. That's facebook.com
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slash group slash order of man. If you're listening to us and you're not in the Facebook group,
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join us at least on the Facebook group, but most importantly, join us and connect with Mr.
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Rickler on Instagram and Twitter. And of course, sign up for the newsletter by going to order of
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man.com as well. Those are the best ways to stay connected to us because we filled questions
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ultimately from, from multiple sources. And today happens to be Facebook. So yes, sir. All right,
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sir. Our first question, uh, Brandon horseman, when everything feels like it's falling apart and you
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feel like giving up, how do you push through it financially, physically, and mentally?
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I don't know if this is a personality thing, but for me, when things are falling apart around me,
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uh, I almost take it as a challenge. Yeah. And like, and even double down a little bit.
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Yeah. Well, maybe not double down on my current activities, but I, I pull back, I regroup,
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I look at what needs to be done. And then there's a, a, quite a bit of optimism and excitement for me,
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uh, in the midst of things that are really, really difficult. I don't want to diminish
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the fact that somebody might be going through a relational issue, a financial issue, a medical
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issue, but those are moments that can really define you. If you choose to look at it as an
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opportunity for growth, an opportunity for expansion. So I would not recommend plowing through
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in your current trajectory. Cause I know a lot of guys will do that. Sometimes things will happen
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and then they'll just double down on their current activities. Well, your current activities are what
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got you to where you are and you're not satisfied with that. So it's time to disengage for a minute,
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regroup, figure out what you need to do mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually,
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come up with a plan of action. That's where something like our, our, uh, battle planner might
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come into play or even using our free resource 30 days to battle ready and come up with a plan of
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action. And then look at this as an opportunity for growth. So for example, if you're strapped for
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cash and you're up to eyeballs in debt, okay, you know where you are, you know, creditors are calling
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you, you know, you're stressed out about it. You know, you're not making ends meet. So the first
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thing you need to do is stop, take a breather, get all of your financial information in one place,
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all of your debt, what the balances are, what the interest rates are. Once you have this all
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listed out, maybe it's a budget that you need to go through. Now you can start planning. So maybe
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you need to call some creditors and ask for, for them to reduce your payment or for some financial
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assistance. A lot of places will, but you can come up with a plan in the way that you're going
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to attack that. Maybe you need to stop spending so much money on a monthly basis on things that are
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unimportant and divert those resources to paying off debt. But you come up with a plan
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and that should give you optimism or, or, or a sense of hope knowing that, Hey, like I'm going
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to improve. And then once you have that, you start acting and it's the action that's going to build up
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the confidence for yourself. And you're going to start feeling better and you're going to put
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yourself in a better spot financially or, or relationally or spiritually, whatever your issue
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is. And life just, life goes on. Life gets better if you do the right things, but you can't double
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down on what you're currently doing. You need to rethink your current strategy.
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Yeah. I like that. I mean, I'll, I'll just add some additional, like mind thought, right?
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It's funny. He says, um, you feel like giving up and push through financially, physically,
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mentally. It's all mental. Otherwise you wouldn't feel the way you're feeling. Right. So like I would
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be mindful of the power of letting go of expectation. I think Ryan, you use the analogy of
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like, Hey, get all your financial stuff together. We avoid that sometimes. And we've talked about on
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the podcast, how guys will be like, they're, they're financially ruined and they just won't
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look at their account. Like they don't want to face the music. And so they'll pretend or just feel
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overly stressed out. Don't do that. Deal in reality. The reality of it is you might have a shit show
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placed in front of you, lay out the details, let go of, well, it shouldn't be this way, or it should be
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this, let go of that and deal with what is so and your current circumstance and then prioritize and
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execute against it. Um, and then the other thought I just had, and, and, and we're really actually
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stealing it from something that someone told me actually yesterday while at church, but they use
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this analogy of sometimes you can be in an airplane and they were talking about how they're in a flight
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and the, and the pilot says, Hey, we can't land yet because there's a storm. And they looked out the
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window and it was sunny. They're like, what? That's weird. And then they look down and there's a storm
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right over that city. Guys, beyond, beyond the clouds of the storm, there's sun, there's hope, the
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world's going to go, there's goodness, there's, there's potential, there's all those great things.
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Sometimes we just have a cloud, you know what I mean? Over our circumstance and, and realize that
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sometimes that's our creation, right? And, and it's our emotional state. Sometimes it might be legit,
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but I mean, that's the power of the statement that you said, you know, this too shall pass.
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And, and sometimes all that we need to do is prioritize and execute. And what a great opportunity.
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I don't know about you, Ryan. Well, I do know about you. I know exactly the, the largest growth
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that you and I have ever had in our lives is when that storm has been above us. So look for the lesson
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to be learned and grow and rise up. So then that way, when that cloud goes by, you're a better man for it.
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That's exactly right. One of the things you said, Kip, as you said, the shit show that's placed
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before us or in front of us, and you already alluded to this, you guys created that. You,
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you created those circumstances. Very rarely is your external circumstance, a product of
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things that are beyond your control. And I'm saying that to you, but I'm also saying it to me.
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I created this environment that I'm participating in. So I want to make sure that we're not just,
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it's not just placed before us. It's we created it. And if we created it, that's a hard pill to
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swallow because we messed it up. But if we were the ones who created it, then we're also the ones
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who can fix it. And I would say just from a spiritual perspective, this is something that
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I'm, I'm trying to think more of and, and, and really tap into the spiritual element of,
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you know, my life. And this is a little different than I've done in the past is that I believe that
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we all have a plan. Like there, and I don't always know the reason for the plan. And I don't always know
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what part of the plan I'm in, especially when it's miserable and it's despair and it's horrible.
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I don't know what plan that is, but I believe it's part of the plan. And if that's part of the
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plan, then that's part of God's doing. And if that's his doing, then he is also the answer.
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So with you and God, you can find a path out. It's tough, but here's one other thing I would say.
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When you feel like giving up, play that out in your mind, like play that,
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well, I almost dropped my pen, play that to its fullest. So let's say you're in financial ruin
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right now. Go ahead and go ahead and play that out. What's going to happen if you give up?
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Like if you stop paying your bills, you're going to lose your assets. You're going to lose your car.
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You're going to lose your house, right? You're going to, you're going to have to file bankruptcy.
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You're going to have to dig out of that for the next 10, 15, 20 years. Like play it out in your
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mind. Is that a viable option for you? If you're going through a finance or excuse me,
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a relational issue, a hardship right now, a separation or divorce, play that out of your
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mind. Could you, Hey, you know what? I'm going to give up. I'm going to throw in the towel. I'm
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going to blow up the marriage. I'm going to treat her like garbage. I'm going to neglect my kids.
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Um, you know, man, that's going to check it out. Yeah. Like play it out. Is that, is that what you
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want? Or do you kind of put a, it's kind of like putting a, um, you know how they say, uh,
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when you have a ship or a boat that's sinking, you can't just like shove a water out of the thing.
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You've got to fill the hole first. So stop, fill the hole, stabilize your environment.
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And then you can start shoveling water out and coming up with a solution moving forward.
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Your comment about playing it out, man, that can transcend in so many areas. I think that,
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and not to create a little bit of a tangent here, but I think it's profound is we'll guys will find
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themselves in really bad circumstances that they've created or making even poor decisions
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because the lack of playing it out. Right. And going, Hey, what, what's the,
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what's the probable future of this decision. And, and it's, it's so interesting that we don't do that
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all the time, that, that it's just the moment or I don't know, instant gratification, or I don't know
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what it is, or lack of laziness or, or laziness and critical thinking. What is it? It's emotion.
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Hmm. Yeah. Because you're being emotional, which is understandable. You're going through a hard
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time. Yeah. Like we talk about this all the time. Men do all the time. Even, even somebody who might
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be asking this question is like, Oh man, we're not driven by our emotions. And yet giving up
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is a response to emotion, despair, depression, anxiety, hopelessness, fear. Those are all emotions
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that would drive you to giving up. So you're, when you say I'm going to give up, you're actually being
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emotional. You're, and being emotional is fine, but you're being driven solely by emotion. Now,
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if we play it out, like you're talking about here, now, what do we have? Hope, optimism, excitement.
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So you're being emotional, which is understandable because it's easy to be emotional when you're
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going through this. I certainly have those things in my own life. Even now you can't be driven by
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emotion. You can use it to figure out what's going on, but you have to have a rational and logical
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path forward. Jason Lavoie. I know it has been probably been covered, but learning how to restart
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life after an unwanted divorce eight years together. And she left very abruptly after setting herself up with
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someone new. How to build confidence in self after taking such a major blow and life changes ahead.
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Yeah. I think we just answered that question. I think what we said before, Hey, regroup,
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you got your balls handed to you. Like, all right, stop regroup. What do I need to do with my money
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situation now? Cause there's probably some, some issues there. If you, if you have kids,
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how am I going to continue to father those kids in the best way possible? Where am I going to live?
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What am I going to do for work? Like, these are all things you need to just take a pause and regroup
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and start working on, on those things and making yourself the project. Make, make your, I've talked
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about that a lot. Make yourself the project. If you can work on yourself and these, these key areas,
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mental, emotional, spiritual, and physical, that those are the realms in which you need to operate
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right now. So let's talk about emotional, emotional. You need to learn how to process your emotions,
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especially the emotion of betrayal, sorrow, heartbreak, guilt, shame, regret. You need to
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figure out a way to experience all of that and get it out in a healthy way so that you can now manage
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it. That's emotional. Mental is doing difficult things that you didn't previously think you could
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do. Now that might mean having a difficult conversation. That might mean standing up for
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yourself in a constructive way. That might mean going to do some physical activity that you've never
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been able to do before, like running a marathon. That might be speaking up and speaking in public,
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starting a business. The beauty of this is not only is it going to build up your psyche,
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it's also going to build up your confidence, which is exactly what you asked about.
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Okay. Then we have spiritual, spiritual. I'm not going to get so much into God in this one. And what
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I'll say is that you've got to figure out your reason for being here. There's a reason you're here.
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And I think that's derived from God. I'm sure there's plenty of guys who think it's something
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different, but ultimately we're all here for a reason. And we need to discover what it is
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and uncover and unpack and develop and build it out. And then physical, I'm not even going to get
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into that. You know that. Go to the gym, eat right, sleep, recover. Those are the realms in which you
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operate right now. Right. Totally. Jason, obviously we don't know the details, right? But there is a
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little bit of, let me just make sure, right? That I point this out, right? Because it's eight years
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together. She abruptly, you know, left after setting herself up, right? There's a little bit
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of like, dude, I did nothing wrong here. Right. And I would suggest, Jason, you figure out what you did
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wrong. You take accountability for it. You take some ownership of it and you figure it out. And
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you do this for two reasons. One, if you leave a divorce, whether you feel it was warranted or not,
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if you leave that from the perspective of you had no hand in the matter and it's not your fault,
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the probability of you having a repeat is actually substantially higher. Second, this is a miserable
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situation. So why not grow from it? I've used this analogy in numerous cases. How do you ensure that
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you don't have regret in life? You learn. That's how. And you want to learn so much from this divorce.
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You want to become so much better of a man because of this divorce that you can't help, but look back
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at it and go, you know what? That was probably the best thing that's ever happened to me. That's how you
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take this bad situation and make it something amazing for you is making sure that you grow from
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it. And you're not going to grow from it if you played no hand in the manner and this was acted upon
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you and there's nothing you could have done. So you have to take some ownership to be able to grow from
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it. And I don't, obviously we don't know the details, but just like, you know, put that on your
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lap and, and, and consider that. Agreed. All right. Ryan Young on Saturday, I shot the biggest
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whitetail buck of my life. I'm super excited and still don't think it's totally hit me how big he
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is. I'm super proud of myself. And I've been waiting 18 years to shoot a buck bigger than my last
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on our property. I'm trying to stay humble about it and not brag, but it seems like everyone else
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tells me I'm showing off. It's honestly kind of given me a feeling of guilt. How do I maintain
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a sense of pride and say modest about what I've accomplished and not let the jealousy of people
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make me feel guilty? This is a really good question. I actually have the same problem by the way. So
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about bragging on things that you're excited about or guilt about it. Yeah. Like I actually hold back
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like wins in my life. Um, certainly with my family and I, and I do it because like, I don't want to
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make them feel bad, right? Like I, there's some, I don't know. I'm concerned about coming across like
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I'm bragging. Well, because their circumstances are different than mine and, and Asia's like, no,
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people who love you want to hear you win. So like you should share, but it, I don't know. It's just
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like my, it's a little bit of a default thing that I do. What's the opposite of humility.
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What would you say? I don't think it's the first thing that comes to mind. What is it?
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I think it's arrogance because think about what pride, I like that better. It's pride is not
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why there's an excessive level of pride, but what is that? Yeah. Arrogance. Arrogance. Yeah.
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Thinking you're better than. Yeah. Right. It's basically the difference is earned versus not
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earned. Right. I'm proud, for example, of this podcast. So I talk about it and I'm excited about
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it and I share it. And I also think it will help other people. So is that wrong? No, it's not wrong.
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You can actually be proud about something and be humble about it at the same time.
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Right. I can, for example, man, this podcast and this movement, I'm so excited about what it's done
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over eight years and how it's grown and how many people it's reached. And I'm so grateful that I
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have the opportunity to serve the men who are listening. And I'm so grateful for guys like you,
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Kip and Chris and Drew and Reese and all, and Jay and all the other guys who helped me. And we have
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done an amazing job. You can see the pride in there and you can also see the humility. I didn't do this
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on my own. And without people listening, it wouldn't be anything, but I can't be arrogant
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and humble at the same time. Look how amazing I am. Look at all these wonderful things I did.
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Look at all the guys that I've helped and nobody's doing it as good as I am.
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That's arrogance and there's no humility in that whatsoever. So the reason I bring that up
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is I think you can share the things that you're excited about if you're proud of them,
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but also where's the humility in the way that you're expressing it.
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Right. Now, if you said, Hey, like it's taken me a long time to learn and so-and-so showed me,
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or I had the opportunity to go hunt this property that I didn't before. And this person was gracious
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enough. And my dad taught me how to do it. And man, it all came together because of all those
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experiences and lessons I had as a kid, there's some humility in that. There's also some
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appropriateness that you have to be aware of too. Like, is it appropriate? And I would say there's
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timing, obviously there's a time and a place to share these things. But then if I just go up to
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a random stranger, I'm like, Hey, I just shot the biggest buck of my life. Like, okay. Like that's
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not appropriate. Right. But if everybody's swapping hunting stories or even ask, Hey, what's your
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biggest accomplishment? You know, then that, those are opportunities you can share.
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Then go. Right. So look for the opportunities to be appropriate in the way you share.
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I like it. All right. Phillip Iverson. Why don't more men share mental health struggles and provide
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support for each other versus leaving it, uh, leaving each to fight a battle on their own?
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Because I think that we have been conditioned to believe that we have to do it alone. And if we need
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somebody else, then that's weakness. And it might be a weakness. It might be a vulnerability,
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but that doesn't mean that we can't go out and help ourselves get the solutions to our problems.
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Like I made a post about therapy that gets okay to go talk about the issues that you're dealing with
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to work through these things. That doesn't make you weak. And I think I've used this analogy before.
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It's like a carpenter who wants to build a big, beautiful home. And he's like, well,
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but I don't use nails or screws. Okay. Well, what do you use? Oh, I just kind of stack them
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together and hope, hopefully it all works out. Okay. Why? Oh, because those are, those are tools.
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I don't need those tools. Like I can do it without it. That's stupid. We use the tools at our disposal.
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And if you learn how to use the tools correctly, it doesn't mean you're weak. It means you're actually
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wise. Like, Hey, here's a tool, having a brother that I can talk with about these issues or having
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a therapist that helped me realize where some of my past thoughts and behaviors come from.
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It's not weakness. It's like, here's another tool that I can use to be more effective. So yeah,
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there is a big stigma associated with it. And I think it's just going to take men sharing. Now,
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where I think it gets taken to the extreme is that we use these experiences in our lives or the way
00:23:16.880
that we feel to completely break down just because you're having an issue does not absolve you of the
00:23:21.760
responsibility of life. Like you don't get to not lead your family. You don't get to, to not go to
00:23:27.160
work. Like you still have to function. So figure out a way to do it so that you can go out and you can
00:23:32.660
provide, and you can be a resource for yourself and other people. Totally. Yeah. I think the other
00:23:38.140
thing too, Ryan, I was thinking is, I mean, if, if your story is, you know, you know, and I'm thinking
00:23:45.400
like mental health story, right. You know, if your mental health story is I'm alone and no one cares
00:23:51.000
or whatever, well, then you're going to perpetuate that thought process until you get out of the box
00:23:56.200
with it. You know what I mean? And me believing that I can call Ryan and he would help me is in
00:24:02.560
complete conflict with my story of no one cares. You know what I mean? And, and I'm alone in my,
00:24:09.420
in my misery, right? Like we'll often perpetuate, right? Obviously the thought process that we're
00:24:15.180
having. And so it's just so important to, to get clear in my opinion of the lie. And, and, and I,
00:24:25.280
and I mean that like literally the lie, because a lot of the time when we're inward in our thought
00:24:32.020
process and it's negative, it's a perception of something and it's not true. And, and the more we
00:24:38.860
can get to that and go, wait a second. Now, this is how I feel, but like, is that true? Does,
00:24:44.280
does no one really care? And, and realize that no, no, no, I'm, I'm, I'm creating that. And thus now I can
00:24:52.140
get past that and say, Hey, you know what? I'm going to call a brother, right? I am going to get
00:24:56.120
counsel. I am going to do these other things. Now, obviously it's not just realizing it's life
00:25:00.860
just magically doesn't make it go away, but it gets us out of the mindset of realizing that that's not
00:25:05.840
reality. And that's part of a perception that we've created and we need to look past that, right?
00:25:11.540
And reach out, whether it's through counseling or other means to get assistance from other
00:25:15.740
individuals. Yeah. And, and I would say also being a help to other guys who are in your circle,
00:25:22.140
you know, the more you can help sharing too. Right. Yeah. Like, you know, guys are struggling
00:25:26.280
and odds are that you've been there to help them and you know, you've been helpful. So why wouldn't
00:25:30.520
the same hold true for you? Yeah. Good point. All right. Joshua trots. How do we overcome
00:25:37.760
complacency? I've never dealt with, well, that's not true. I have dealt with it. I don't, I guess the
00:25:46.280
best thing you can do to overcome complacency is find something you're excited about.
00:25:52.140
You're really not going to be complacent about something you're excited about. And you might
00:25:55.960
need to shake things up. You might need to mix life up a little bit. You might need to take on
00:26:00.280
a new task or project at work. You might need to take on a new hobby or activity, but when you feel
00:26:06.940
yourself in a rut, if we, if we actually take that term being in a rut, you know, think about that.
00:26:12.200
You're driving down a muddy road or a snow covered road and your tires slip into a rut. You can almost
00:26:17.480
drive without even steering the wheel. Like the rut's going to, it's the track, right?
00:26:22.880
It will. And how do you get yourself out of that rut? Well, you kind of got to violently jerk on
00:26:27.780
the wheel a little bit and pop yourself up out of there and give it some gas. And if you do,
00:26:32.460
then you can pop up out of that rut, but you got to be careful because you could easily slide back
00:26:36.560
into it. So what I'm saying is that you need to make a change, a big change in your life. Now, again,
00:26:43.220
we're not going to blow up our responsibilities, but we're going to change within reason. So we can
00:26:47.880
pop ourselves up out of that rut and, and direct our own lives the way that we want to direct it.
00:26:53.660
Yeah. Yeah. Don't go a hard, right. And just go off the road and crash.
00:26:58.440
Right. Or get back on and then like, okay, I'm safe. And then just slide back into it.
00:27:03.740
Yeah. Yeah. Great. All right. Alex Schwartz. I started my own business. I still work for,
00:27:10.200
I still work my full-time job. Is there a pathway you or Kip recommend on working towards quitting
00:27:16.520
or things that need to be checked? I know obviously money. I know obviously money, but it just seems
00:27:24.140
like there's a lot more to account for having two kids and a wife. If it were just me, I would have
00:27:29.720
already went on my own fully. I wonder why that is. I wonder if that's financially related or because
00:27:36.820
your wife feels more comfortable with you having a full-time job than doing this. Or if you're scared
00:27:43.060
that it won't work out, I would really explore why if it was just you, you would do it. But because
00:27:49.680
you have a wife and two kids, you wouldn't. You need to really explore and uncover that and unpack
00:27:54.620
that and figure out why that's the case. The only thing I can tell you is, I mean, there's a fear,
00:28:01.240
sure. But the financial is the biggest issue. You can overcome that fear because what is it that you
00:28:08.140
do work for? Well, money, right? That's probably why you haven't done it already. Because if it
00:28:14.560
wasn't a money issue, you would have done it. Like there's nothing else that would be a problem.
00:28:22.660
If you were killing it and bringing in some serious dough, you'd be like, done.
00:28:26.140
Yeah. So it's solely a money issue, likely. And for your wife, money issue, but deeper than the
00:28:35.140
money is the security. She's very worried about the security as you might be as well.
00:28:41.260
So the way that you do that is just a formula. You look at your monthly expenses and let's just say
00:28:47.440
for the sake of argument, your monthly expenses are $5,000. Okay. Well, look at what path you're on
00:28:55.300
with your new business venture. Let's say you're making $2,000 a month right now with your new
00:29:02.880
venture. So basically you're making 40% of your monthly expenses. Again, I'm just using a scenario
00:29:08.740
so we can play this out. Okay. At your trajectory, how long is it going to take you to go from $2,000
00:29:15.860
a month to $5,000? Let's say it's going to take you 12 months. So that means you have a deficiency of
00:29:24.420
$3,000 a month times 12, that's $36,000. So one way you can look at this and say, okay, well,
00:29:31.760
I have to have $36,000 set aside in my bank account. And then I can leave today
00:29:35.140
because that $3,000 is going to be made up by pulling money out of the bank account.
00:29:42.200
That's one way you can do it. The other way is you could just wait until your income is
00:29:47.920
completely replaced. Let's say you're making $6,000 with your current job. That's going to take
00:29:53.320
you a year and a half. Cool. All right. Well, just wait a year and a half and work hard. And
00:29:57.420
then in a year and a half, you'll be making $6,000 with your side gig. And then you replace
00:30:00.780
it then. That's probably what she's going to want to see. But those are two different paths you can
00:30:05.120
look at, but it's all financially related with an underlying factor of fear, comfort, and safety
00:30:10.360
at the forefront, likely of her mind. Yeah. What's kind of fun about this is, I mean,
00:30:17.380
I didn't do this, but like in hindsight, you know, it's, it's interesting because sometimes
00:30:21.380
we start our own, our, our own businesses and it's associated to our time. And, and so we end
00:30:29.360
up just hustling more, working harder. It's our own bag, right? But it's taking up more time or
00:30:35.420
whatever. And, you know, maybe one thing to consider Alex is, and I don't know what the
00:30:39.440
business idea is, but can you pull it off and have it start being a passive income? Like where this
00:30:45.480
thing just is passive in regards to bringing in cashflow and how nice would it be if you,
00:30:52.820
when you're ready to switch that you switch, not requiring the same amount of time today
00:30:58.540
that you do on your job, because this thing's just working. How, how nice would that be?
00:31:04.880
Kind of a fun way to maybe approach it. You know, that's cool. I would say also make sure you include
00:31:10.360
her in the growth of the business. Cause again, if she's worried about safety,
00:31:14.780
communication is going to help that. If you're not communicating with her about how it's growing
00:31:19.400
or how it's doing or not doing, or what kind of money it's bringing in. And you're just hoping
00:31:24.080
that she's going to lean and rely solely on you. That's a harder hill to climb than actually
00:31:29.880
communicating with her. Hey hon, we made $2,000 in the business last month. Uh, we made 2,500 this
00:31:35.240
month. Oh, we only made 1,800, but that's because it's Christmas time. And this slows down because
00:31:39.340
it's seasonal communicate with her. And then you're going to start addressing those safety
00:31:44.080
and security issues that she has at the underlying, you know, foundation of what she's looking for from
00:31:48.480
you. Yeah. Cool. All right. Will Stahlberger, uh, Stahlberger, in your opinion, is journaling worth
00:31:57.300
it? I think I would benefit greatly from keeping a journal as it would help me process my emotions,
00:32:02.280
but I'm unsure where to start. So I'm not going to answer this question. Well, I'll answer
00:32:09.320
it, but it's just do it. Like if you're like, I think it would help me greatly, then it doesn't
00:32:18.520
matter what I think about it. Yeah. It really doesn't matter. So, okay. Now, but let's get
00:32:23.660
practical. Again, I get questions like that a lot. Like I'm thinking about, Hey, has anybody had any
00:32:28.700
experience with this workout? Yeah. Lots of people, but you're interested. So just do it.
00:32:33.780
Or has anybody had any experience with what I fill in the blank with running a Spartan race?
00:32:39.040
Why do you need to know that? You don't need to know that if you're interested, then you just go
00:32:43.560
do it. It doesn't, you're looking for excuses. And some people will say, no, no, I'm looking for,
00:32:48.840
you know, ways to make it more efficient and effective. Yeah, I get it. You'll, but you'll get
00:32:52.960
that along the way. Like stop looking for a reason not to do something. Just do it. Okay. Now,
00:32:57.900
where do you start? Well, you just start, you just get a notepad and you just start writing and
00:33:04.860
you're going to get better at it. A couple of prompts I would give you is what did I, what,
00:33:09.480
what was my greatest lesson today? Answer that question. Yeah. What, where did I do the best
00:33:15.120
today? Where did I fail today? What am I going to do tomorrow? If I was reading this in 20 years,
00:33:23.300
what lesson from today would I want to give my future self? Uh, how did I feel? This is a big
00:33:30.680
one for guys. How do they feel about what took place today? Where did I feel energized and excited
00:33:37.340
and optimistic? Where did I feel down and sad and guilty or shameful? Talk about those feelings.
00:33:44.020
There's so many different things you could do. If my kid was going to read this in 10 years,
00:33:48.020
what would I want him or her to learn? What lesson would I want on part upon them?
00:33:53.300
These are all prompts that you can use and yeah, just go for it. And you're going to get better at
00:33:58.000
it and more efficient. You're going to find questions and prompts that work well for you.
00:34:01.640
Yeah. The problem, maybe a pitfall that I fell into and we'll all project it on you a little bit
00:34:07.300
as a, maybe a thing to consider or watch out for. I approach journaling is like, well, I'm going to like
00:34:14.140
write my history. Right. And so the first time I sit down, it's like two hours later. Right. And then
00:34:20.340
what do I do the next day? I don't have time to journal that took forever yesterday. Right. And then
00:34:26.420
it almost deterred me from doing it because it was, I made it such this large ordeal task. So
00:34:34.880
sometimes keep it simple and, and precise me personally, what's always worked out for me because
00:34:41.920
I have a problem with being grateful. So I just maintain a gratitude journal. And, and my requirement
00:34:50.260
is it doesn't matter if it's five minutes or 30 minutes, I got to write something and explain
00:34:54.920
something that I'm grateful for. And it, sometimes it's hard. Like I'll sit there and go, I don't feel
00:35:00.220
grateful for anything. Right. And it really forces me to sit there and go like, no, that's not true.
00:35:05.860
Right. I have somebody blessed and it really helps me get that mindset. And then I'll, I'll write about
00:35:10.600
it. And then when that's not the case, and I have something really present, pressing on my mind,
00:35:14.520
kind of back to your prompt, Ryan, about something you learned today or whatever, then I'll do that
00:35:19.820
route. But my default is at least I have to document something that I'm grateful for.
00:35:24.780
Yeah. I like that. I would ask it with that gratitude that you're talking about. There's some
00:35:29.880
intentionality behind that. I want to learn how to exercise more gratitude, right? That's,
00:35:34.360
that's your practice that you want to do. So he needs to ask, we all need to ask why we're doing
00:35:39.500
the things that we do. What's the intent? Yeah. Right. Are you journaling because somebody once
00:35:43.620
one time said it was a good thing and that might be enough to get you started, but it's not going
00:35:48.660
to get you to be enough for you to keep doing it. So why do you want to journal? Is it so you can
00:35:54.880
clear your mind at the end of the day? Is it so you can document lessons that you learned? Is it so
00:36:00.080
you can learn how to process your feelings and emotions better? Is it so you can get rid of maybe
00:36:05.960
anger or frustration that you have that's pent up throughout the day? There's a lot of reasons you
00:36:10.200
would do it. Figure out what that reason is. And then you can cater your journaling experience towards
00:36:15.460
solving that problem. All right. Our boy, Dom, both of you currently have more financial success
00:36:23.540
than your parents. You assume that Dom. So with that success comes easier lives for your children.
00:36:29.820
There's something about the struggle of your youth that has helped you produce great in your
00:36:33.920
adulthood. Here's the question. How are you helping your children to be gritty when their lives are
00:36:40.900
actually significantly more comfortable than your life was growing up? Yeah. I mean, isn't that,
00:36:46.300
that's one of the biggest problems just with the ease of modernity, you know, let alone what we do as
00:36:51.920
individuals. I mean, the house that we're in and the items that we have and the, I stay at home,
00:36:57.700
you know, I'm at home with my, with my wife and kids. Like there's a lot of blessings in that,
00:37:03.700
you know? Yeah. Yeah. For me, I, one thing we do is we have our two oldest are still paying. They,
00:37:09.660
they pay a lot of their own expenses. They, my oldest Brecken in particular works in the store.
00:37:15.860
So he's earning money. We're trying to do challenging things. There's still responsibility. They have
00:37:21.420
their schoolwork and assignments and tasks and all these things that they do. You know, I wish I had
00:37:25.900
some great big answer, but the other thing is that I try to be a good communicator with them too
00:37:31.340
and communicate why we have what we have. Hey, the reason that this is the way it is,
00:37:36.600
is because here's some things that I've done. Here's some things that have worked well. Here's
00:37:40.960
some failures that I've had. Here's some ways that it hasn't worked and why I've had to correct
00:37:45.220
that behavior. So those are all things that I do, but I don't have any great like strategy other than
00:37:50.640
keep them involved in the wins and losses and then give them responsibility and opportunities
00:37:55.660
for growth. Also discipline. You know, they don't get away with things either. You know, if, if, if
00:38:00.640
there's an issue at home and they're back talking or you know, there's a greater problem. My two
00:38:06.040
oldest boys are involved in sports. Sports is a big part of their life, powerlifting and football
00:38:11.160
in particular. A lot of great lessons come from that as well. Yeah. Any opportunity to really focus
00:38:17.840
on that delayed gratification and reward, you know, for hard work. The, the other thing that
00:38:24.000
I would add on top of what you said, Ryan is, you know, we look for opportunities for our kids to
00:38:28.640
serve. I think that's really important, especially when we've, we've given them comfortable lives.
00:38:34.540
Um, it's good for them to see that, um, there's another world of, of struggle and there's people
00:38:42.020
out there really struggling with those things and how do we serve them, uh, and use our circumstances
00:38:47.200
to benefit others. And so, um, for a while, we actually, we had had the kids, um, we, there's
00:38:54.780
this, um, church, uh, soup kitchen downtown over by the, um, the homeless shelter. And we'd go
00:39:02.460
there once a month and, and our girls would serve, you know, the food for the soup kitchen. It was
00:39:08.940
great for them, like super great, you know, uh, because they're seeing that struggle. I think the
00:39:14.140
other thing is like culture is one of those other things that kind of helps do this as well, you know,
00:39:20.580
so that way they kind of get out of their bubble a little bit and look for opportunities and, and see
00:39:24.980
that, uh, the world's a little bit bigger than, than what they see from, from, from the day to day.
00:39:29.520
Yeah. Cool. All right. Aaron Croach, how do you balance striving for excellence without being
00:39:36.820
crippled by the ideal or perfect? There are no silver bullets. We know this. Everything has a
00:39:43.860
trade-off, but I'm often trying to find the silver bullet instead of taking a good, but not perfect
00:39:49.460
action. Any tips on overcoming the obstacle of perfection so we can improve, or is this a false
00:39:55.920
dichotomy? Is there a way to pursue perfection without falling into inaction? Yeah, I think there
00:40:02.480
is a way it's in the, it's in the question. Is there a way to pursue perfection without falling
00:40:07.920
into action in action? It's the answer is in the question, pursue it. Meaning don't just think about
00:40:14.820
it, actually pursue it and put something out into the world that you can improve upon. But I actually
00:40:19.380
think this is a mindset thing. This is all in the mind. Like I have to have it perfect. It has to be
00:40:24.780
just right before I launch it. That's in your mind. It doesn't have to be because you've used
00:40:29.380
imperfect products that have developed later, have developed over time. You know, that iPhone
00:40:34.400
that's sitting in your pocket, the first iPhone wasn't perfect. Neither is this one. That's going
00:40:38.560
to come up with new features and new things based on market trends and based on what consumers want.
00:40:45.520
Sometimes you don't even know what the consumer wants when you put something out there. You know,
00:40:49.680
I didn't know what the iron council or even order of man was going to become, but the mindset shift
00:40:55.460
for me, and it wasn't much of a shift because I've never really had this paralysis by analysis type
00:41:00.100
mindset. But my mindset is not that my mindset is, man, let's just find out. Let's launch it and
00:41:09.200
build it along the way. Like that's what I want. I just want to find out if it'll work. And if it
00:41:13.740
doesn't work, I'm like, oh man, that doesn't work. But I don't think it's a failure. I'm like,
00:41:18.520
well, maybe if I tweak this one variable, then it will work. And then I test it. Okay. That worked
00:41:24.160
a little better, but what if I added this or took this away that works even better. And so you evolve
00:41:29.520
and you build this thing over time, but that, but I guess the mindset of it is I find great value
00:41:38.340
in and take pride in launching. That to me is more important. That's hardwired into my DNA
00:41:49.260
launching it. I value launching something more than I value having the perfect thing that never
00:41:58.260
goes live. So it's a, it's a belief or a value system right now. Your value is perfection.
00:42:05.520
What if your value was progress? And that's what you valued. You placed more of a priority on progress
00:42:15.400
than you did perfection. And you shifted that a little bit. Would that drive you to action? I think
00:42:20.540
it would. Yeah, for sure. I think I can relate to this more than you do, Ryan. You know this. I,
00:42:28.660
um, I get in my own way constantly where I feel I get really passionate about like how something should
00:42:36.660
go almost that I'm like the blinders are on and this is the ideal perfect scenario. And I'll,
00:42:42.060
I'll get kind of emotionally tied to it. Right? Like if Ryan sees it differently than me, I'm like,
00:42:47.600
you know what I mean? Cause this is, I know this is the right way. And there's some value to that,
00:42:53.000
right? Because I'm going to show up in that thing that I'm doing kind of in a really intentional,
00:42:58.520
intense kind of way that I think maybe gets maybe typically better results than others. How's that?
00:43:06.260
However, it's kind of arrogant. I'm kind of arrogant about it, right? Where I'm thinking,
00:43:13.800
no, this is the right way. And I don't know. I really don't know. I don't know if that's the
00:43:19.800
most perfect way. And, and I have to kind of put myself in check and say, no, no, I need to get
00:43:25.080
the reps in, right? We talk about this sometimes on the podcast about minimal viable product. Yeah.
00:43:30.240
You have this brilliant idea, test it out first. And I kind of need to do that more often in just
00:43:36.020
everything that I do of like, get in the reps, get it in front of people, get some confirmation that
00:43:42.160
what I need to do to tweak sometimes all delay, um, exposure of what I'm working on,
00:43:49.520
because I want to make it perfect before anyone sees it. And the problem with that is I don't know
00:43:55.440
what I don't know. And, and until I get exposure and reps in, I'm, I'm kind of being arrogant and
00:44:02.840
guessing that I know exactly what's what. And so back to already what you were saying, you know,
00:44:09.140
air on the side of action, but I see it as kind of reps. I need to get in reps, um, and get some
00:44:15.580
exposure and confirmation. And, but still I can focus on making it ideal and perfect.
00:44:21.060
But a lot of that, I think for me anyway, is, is a little bit of arrogance on my part that I think
00:44:27.160
my way is the way or the best way when reality is probably not, I hate to say that, but it's
00:44:34.640
probably not the best. Well, think about if you launch something you believe is perfect,
00:44:39.420
what room for growth does that allow you? None.
00:44:42.160
I mean, I'm not going to even take input from anybody when, when I know it's perfect.
00:44:46.680
Right. So if you're waiting for it to be perfect, let's say that day arrives, you're like,
00:44:50.660
this is perfect. And you launch whatever that thing is. We know it's not perfect. We a hundred
00:44:56.160
percent. No, it's not perfect. You think it is. You've wrapped up your identity into this perfect
00:45:00.900
project. And then you've closed yourself off to any opportunity for growth versus this concept of
00:45:07.240
progress and launching. We were talking about humility and arrogance earlier. It's, it's,
00:45:14.800
it's more humility to launch where you are and say, look, guys, I know this isn't perfect.
00:45:20.520
I don't know if this is even going to work. I feel convicted in it. I'm excited about it,
00:45:25.240
but like, let's try it and see what it does. I mean, when we did our first event or even the first
00:45:32.160
iron council iteration guy signed up, I didn't, and I told him like, I don't totally know what
00:45:37.200
this is going to look like. And I don't totally know what it's going to be. And when we had our
00:45:41.220
first event, we probably, I, you know, I came up with some things that we were going to go through.
00:45:46.520
Um, but we came up with the agenda probably two days before, you know, the actual thing,
00:45:53.180
like the finalized agenda. And then what that allows you to do is that allows you to be open
00:45:58.120
and receptive to feedback and ways to make it even better. So maybe there's some of that
00:46:02.800
humility versus arrogance conversation in there. Yeah. And I'm totally projected on this guy.
00:46:09.080
Aaron's like, dude, Kip, I'm not related to you. Right. In regards to how I feel about this,
00:46:13.200
but for me too, some of this is why do I want it to be perfect? Yeah. It's about me. It's about man.
00:46:21.840
If this thing gets rolled out and it looks perfect, guess what? Glory to Kip and his greatness,
00:46:27.300
you know, let me bask in how amazing I am versus did it serve its purpose? Right. Did it help?
00:46:36.620
Did I involve people in the process that needed to be involved for their buy? A lot of that has to do
00:46:43.700
with, with just me trying to prove myself, you know, to other people and looking good.
00:46:50.260
I, I, I wonder like, what is perfect anyways? There is no object objective standard of perfection.
00:46:57.760
Yeah. Like there's, there's, it's just not, it's not a thing. There is no such thing as perfect.
00:47:04.420
It's, it's what's good to somebody else might be horrible to another person. There is no.
00:47:11.220
Yeah. Let me, let me say it this way. If you said, Hey Kip, you know, how's that, how's that
00:47:15.320
material coming along? My, my, my excuse or reason to you would be putting in some solid time,
00:47:23.460
just really want it to be perfect. Just really want it to be perfect. Translation Kip. How's
00:47:28.980
that translate? How's that content coming along? Oh, it's going really good. I'm trying to make it
00:47:33.100
as best as it can be better than, um, you know, probably standard. And because I really want to
00:47:39.920
make sure that when I roll it out, you think really highly of me. Yeah. Yeah. It's you driven.
00:47:45.760
Yeah. That's a good, that's a good point. Oh, I guess then we have to figure out where on the
00:47:50.500
spectrum do you launch? You know, you have something that's broken that doesn't function
00:47:56.560
and you have something that's perfect that functions flawlessly. Well, okay. When, when do you launch?
00:48:01.300
If, if, if the intent of the launch, if you're clear on the intent, for instance, you put an
00:48:08.960
event together, what's the intent? Hey, I want to create this environment that leaves a lasting impact
00:48:14.860
for the men who sign up so they can walk away feeling, you know, profound and confident and
00:48:20.780
have some guidance direction on how to become better men. If that intent is pure, you're going to
00:48:27.200
launch at a window by which you ensure that that desired intent is going to be effective period.
00:48:33.980
Well, and there's things that you can do also, if you have a product, for example, you might say,
00:48:38.380
Hey, I know this isn't perfect. I know it has a long way to go, but I'd like to get five or 10 or
00:48:44.160
20 or a hundred, whatever the number is people to test it and you don't have to pay for it,
00:48:48.320
but I want you to test it for 30 days. And then I want you to give me raw, honest feedback.
00:48:54.600
What do you like? What do you dislike? What does it need? What does it not need?
00:48:57.200
And then there you launched, you actually launched something. You didn't charge anybody
00:49:01.820
for it, but you had them test it out. And now your second iteration is going to be that much
00:49:05.300
better. And maybe you do charge a little bit for it. And then the price goes up and up and up and up
00:49:09.800
as value is increased in the thing as well. Let's take one more kit. All right. Ryan James,
00:49:15.480
how to combat intense social anxiety. Well, you just got to be in social environments.
00:49:21.080
That's it. Reps. That's it. You just, you have to put yourself and it might start small,
00:49:25.760
right? You're not, you're not going to go put yourself on stage in front of a thousand people
00:49:31.360
today, but could you go to a business luncheon this afternoon? Sure. Yeah, absolutely. And go
00:49:37.900
prepared, right? What is your objective in going to that business luncheon? Well, it's to get better
00:49:41.900
at social interaction. So you, you learn a few questions that that's all you really need with
00:49:49.280
social interaction. That's the, that's the best thing about social interaction. You don't have to
00:49:54.360
impress anybody. You just have to be interested in other people because everybody wants to talk
00:49:58.940
about themselves. So if you learn to be a good, a good question asker, then you're fine. You're fine.
00:50:07.580
So I like the acronym frog. So friends and family. Okay. Recreation. It's like, what do you do for
00:50:16.160
recreation? Occupation. What do you, what do you do for work? What are your goals? That sort of thing.
00:50:22.400
And that's that last one, G goals and ambitions. So frog talk about their friends and family,
00:50:28.220
talk about recreation, talk about occupation, talk about goals and gains, as Kip would say.
00:50:35.620
Oh, gangs. I thought you said gains, gains. What gains are you looking for?
00:50:40.600
You know, if you learn to ask those questions, it's very simple. You know, it's very, look,
00:50:45.120
I've done things. I've been to social interactions where I feel awkward.
00:50:47.840
Um, and I've just approached people because I've tried this where two people are talking
00:50:54.080
and I just walk up to those two people and I'm like, guys, I know this is awkward.
00:50:59.660
I don't know anybody here, but you guys look like you've been here, you know, what's going on.
00:51:05.000
So I figured I'd come over and introduce myself. I'm Ryan.
00:51:07.140
You have like that level of just humility and just putting yourself out there and the guys are going
00:51:15.180
to be like, oh yeah, cool, man. No problem. Let me introduce you to Steve over here. And let me
00:51:18.180
tell you about this. It's so easy if you're willing to do it and be honest. But if you walk in there
00:51:23.520
and you're worried about your appearance and you're worried about how people perceive you,
00:51:28.280
man, just own wherever you go. Hey, somebody in the, maybe find somebody else in the corner who's
00:51:33.980
awkward and say, Hey, like, I noticed you're over here alone, man. I acted awkward. I came to this
00:51:40.720
thing alone and I don't really know anybody here. Do you know anybody here? And the guy's like,
00:51:44.380
I don't know anybody here. It's like, well, cool. Now we know each other.
00:51:48.000
Yeah. Just, just own it. And if you can own the fact it's, it's, it lightens it a little bit.
00:51:55.500
It takes the burden off of it for you, for you and for other people as well. So you just got to put
00:52:00.680
yourself in social environments and ask good questions and own the fact that you feel
00:52:05.420
uncomfortable. Guess what? Everybody else feels uncomfortable. They're just willing,
00:52:09.700
not willing to admit it. Yeah. Spot on. All right, gentlemen, call to action here.
00:52:16.760
Iron Council. Iron Council is opening up for membership in a couple of weeks. Yep.
00:52:22.100
To sign up, go to orderofman.com slash ironcouncil to stay connected. You can follow Mr.
00:52:28.340
on Twitter and Instagram at Ryan Mickler. And as well, keep in mind store.orderofman.com for all
00:52:36.700
of your swag needs coming into the holiday. But once again, probably the biggest thing is
00:52:42.240
Iron Council is currently closed, opening up in a couple of weeks. If you're wanting to join us
00:52:47.220
there starting the new year, go to orderofman.com slash ironcouncil. Right on guys. Appreciate you
00:52:53.180
again. Have a great Thanksgiving. A lot to be thankful for. We are thankful for you. I know I can
00:52:57.460
speak for Kip on that as well. And, uh, yeah, we'll be back on Friday until then go out there,
00:53:02.620
take action and become the man you are meant to be. Thank you for listening to the order of man
00:53:07.360
podcast. You're ready to take charge of your life and be more of the man you were meant to be.
00:53:12.120
We invite you to join the order at orderofman.com.